Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Cracking the case of missing & murdered schoolgirl Debbie Randall

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Cracking the case of missing & murdered schoolgirl Debbie Randall · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph
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Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Who killed Deborah Lynn Randall? How
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Speaker 1: do you do something that is a liberal? Randall? From
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Speaker 1: January thirteen, nineteen seventy two. Debby was nine years old
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Speaker 1: when she vanished. It's been more than forty three years.
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Speaker 1: Group of retired detectives volunteering their time, determined to bring
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Speaker 1: her family answer to the beautiful kid duclugative picture and
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Speaker 1: you say the amishs. Detective Nicks is part of a
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Speaker 1: rare group of retired police officers to specialize in solving
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Speaker 1: Cop Counties cold cases. If you investigator, feel detective for
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Speaker 1: peel cop and that's what you moved forward that phone call,
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Speaker 1: that family saying sit down with the best good means
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Speaker 1: for you. I give in your buying your back or
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Speaker 1: find out her work before there for it. We haven't
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Speaker 1: forgotten and we're not going to give up. It was
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Speaker 1: a cold, cold winter's night and a nine year old
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Speaker 1: little girl, debb Lynn Randall. Debbie Lynn Randall steps out
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Speaker 1: of a laundry mat to head back home. She's only
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Speaker 1: a half a block away from her family's home. She's
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Speaker 1: got with her the detergent. They've been doing their family laundry,
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Speaker 1: and who would be worried just a half a block
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Speaker 1: from home, not even a whole block from the laundry mat,
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Speaker 1: walking by herself. She never made it home. This nine
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Speaker 1: year old little girl never seen alive again. I Nancy Grace,
1:37
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:40
Speaker 1: a nine year old little girl and trusted just to
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Speaker 1: walk a few doors. I can remember at that age
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Speaker 1: we didn't have a washer and dryer either, and we
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Speaker 1: would have to drive to the laundry mat. And we
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Speaker 1: also did it on Sundays on our way to evening services.
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Speaker 1: I remember it like it was yesterday. And then coming
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Speaker 1: home and getting into the warm sheets and the towels
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Speaker 1: and hiding under them and playing in them until they
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Speaker 1: weren't warm anymore. That's what you do when you're nine
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Speaker 1: years old. You don't end up missing and murdered. That's
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Speaker 1: what happened to Debbie. And joining me right now special
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Speaker 1: guests from the Cobb County Coal Case Unit, Detective Morris Nis,
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Speaker 1: whose mission has been finding the truth of what happened
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Speaker 1: to nine year old Debbie, also with me Crime Online
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Speaker 1: reporter Lee Eagan to both of you. Thank you for
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Speaker 1: being with us. I wanted to go back to that evening, cold, cold, cold,
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Speaker 1: really frigid winter night. Let's start at the beginning to
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Speaker 1: Detective Morris Nicks again, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: Let's start with her leaving the house and her trip
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Speaker 1: to the laundry. Matt Morris, start and welcome. Thank you.
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Speaker 1: Nei um. A lot of people have asked me why
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Speaker 1: was a nine year old there alone? And I explained
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Speaker 1: to him this was a gathering place for particularly the
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Speaker 1: little girls, where they will get together at the lawn
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Speaker 1: room matte and play with her barbed dolls and trade
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Speaker 1: clothes and things that you know nine year old girls do.
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Speaker 1: She was within sight of where she lived, so we
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Speaker 1: just across the street, and so it really wasn't that unusual.
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Speaker 1: Detective Morris Knicks, Hold on one moment, you're telling me
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Speaker 1: something I didn't know. I've been saying half a block
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Speaker 1: ever since I started researching this case. Are you saying
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Speaker 1: it's more like across the street? Correct? It was probably
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Speaker 1: about s whoa seventy five ft that is just basically
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Speaker 1: across the street. Okay, See that puts it in a
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Speaker 1: whole different light because While I understood the parents letting
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Speaker 1: her walk a half a block by herself, I always
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Speaker 1: thought why did they do that? But that would be
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Speaker 1: like most people saying, hey, can you run next door
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Speaker 1: and take this to the neighbor. And you know, Marris,
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Speaker 1: you knew, you know, I grew up in rural Georgia
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Speaker 1: and we would go outside and play and play and play,
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Speaker 1: and finally come home when it started getting dark. Nobody
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Speaker 1: thought a thing about it. When the front porch light
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Speaker 1: came on, you knew it was time to go on.
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Speaker 1: That's right. Or either I would hear my parents wayne
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Speaker 1: the distance, blowing the car horn right here, the chimes
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Speaker 1: in the church steeple, and go, oh six o'clock. Better go.
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Speaker 1: I mean, we could go where ever we wanted to,
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Speaker 1: as long as we've done her homework. Now, let me
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Speaker 1: get back to the seat, Mars. After all of our
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Speaker 1: discussions about Debbie, I didn't get this. This is an
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Speaker 1: important fact. So it's just across the street, all right,
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Speaker 1: Sorry to slow you down, Go ahead, detective. Okay, Well,
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Speaker 1: she was at lunder matt playing with her friends. I
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Speaker 1: interviewed someone who told me at one point said Debbie
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Speaker 1: walked out the door said, you know, see you later, goodbye.
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Speaker 1: I gotta go, she said. I wanted to go with her,
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Speaker 1: but my older sister said, no, you're gonna stay here
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Speaker 1: and help me full close wow with me. Lea Egan,
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter with Crime Online dot Com Lee, when I
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Speaker 1: look back and I've heard this from countless I can't
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Speaker 1: even count them crime victims, families or friends. If only
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Speaker 1: I had, if he had, if she had, if ten
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Speaker 1: minutes this way, ten minutes that way, it's it can
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Speaker 1: torture you, Leagan thinking what if I run into that?
5:28
Speaker 1: A lot on these stories, there's always usually every story
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Speaker 1: has at least one person that was like, only I
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Speaker 1: could have said this to her or him, just got
5:39
Speaker 1: them to hold back for a few minutes. And it's
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Speaker 1: it's it's not their fault. I mean, nobody knew. No.
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Speaker 1: I just feel so bad about it. And her parents
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Speaker 1: had probably tortured themselves about letting her go across the street.
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Speaker 1: This little girl was a happy girl, a third grade
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Speaker 1: student at Pine Forest Elementary, just nine years old. You know, guys,
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Speaker 1: you know that's the age of the twins. Just nine
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Speaker 1: years old. She was walking that to her first street
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Speaker 1: home there at mary Atta place. She had been at
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Speaker 1: the Duds and SuDS co Op laundry matt. She absolutely
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Speaker 1: got there, she was spotted, she was identified. There were
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Speaker 1: other little girls there that Sunday evening and they were
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Speaker 1: just as Detective Morris Nick said, exchanging doll close. They
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Speaker 1: all brought their dolls and that funny a lot of
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Speaker 1: times I can remember. She doesn't do it now, but
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Speaker 1: when Lucy would go to the playground, she'd take a
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Speaker 1: doll and if there were other girls there, they would
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Speaker 1: play with the dolls. So when she went to go
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Speaker 1: do the laundry, she took her dolls. So what do
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Speaker 1: we know about when she left Detective Nick's she left
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Speaker 1: about seven? The best we can tell, she left about seven. Um,
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Speaker 1: wait a minute, now, hold on. She I understand that
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Speaker 1: the stepdad, Robert Hooker, took her to the laundry matt
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Speaker 1: around seven with a load of laundry and he left
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Speaker 1: her there with two bucks. And when he last saw her,
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Speaker 1: according to the reports I've read, she was putting clothes
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Speaker 1: in the washing machine when her stepdad left. Now is
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Speaker 1: that correct? Yes, that's that's approximate. Um, we believe possibly
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Speaker 1: he a little bit earlier and that she actually walked
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Speaker 1: out about seven fifteen, seven twenty from what we're able
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Speaker 1: to put together. You know, it also changes things, Detective Nick,
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Speaker 1: because for a moment there, I thought she had walked
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Speaker 1: over across the street with the laundry herself. No, her stepdad,
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Speaker 1: who has is not a part of this investigation. He
7:36
Speaker 1: had an alibi for that whole time because you always
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Speaker 1: look at the dad and stepdad first, and carry the
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Speaker 1: mom's boyfriend. But he walked her over there, which makes
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Speaker 1: it it seemed even more safe, and left her with
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Speaker 1: two bucks, the laundry, and the clothes, I mean, the detergent. Okay,
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Speaker 1: so she's there thirty minutes, then she leaves. All right,
7:55
Speaker 1: what happens then, Well, this is where it starts to
7:58
Speaker 1: we have to start sorting things out. Um. I have
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Speaker 1: one witness that said I saw her across the street,
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Speaker 1: and the witness said, I think someone called out to her.
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Speaker 1: She recognized that person, turned around and came back towards them, which,
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Speaker 1: of course gives you one theory. Someone else said, no, well, yeah,
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Speaker 1: hold on, let's follow that to its logical conclusion. When
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Speaker 1: you say it gives you one theory, Not all of
8:25
Speaker 1: us are cold case Unit detectives. So when you say
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Speaker 1: that's one theory, what you mean is it's somebody she
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Speaker 1: knows that could call her name out, or they could
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Speaker 1: have said hey, little girl, but they could have also
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Speaker 1: used her name. To the witness, say they used her name,
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Speaker 1: did not say that. So she leaves. Let's just estimate,
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Speaker 1: and she leaves with the doll and the box of
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Speaker 1: detergent or just the detergent. She just had the detergent.
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Speaker 1: According according to the reports, she may have had the doll,
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Speaker 1: but there's no mention of the dogs. And I do
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Speaker 1: the same thing, what happened to the dog? Because you
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Speaker 1: know that dog could be sitting on some guy's shelf
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Speaker 1: right now? You know that. You know how killers keep
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Speaker 1: mementos and treasures like people's underwear or their their driver's
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Speaker 1: license or a ticket stub like you put in your
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Speaker 1: photo album, your treasure book, your scrap book. They keep
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Speaker 1: scrap books in essence of their murder victims. So I
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Speaker 1: wonder what happened to the doll? Okay, so somebody sees
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Speaker 1: her leaving. We can place that around seven twenty that
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Speaker 1: Sunday night, going across the street. We're positive she left
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Speaker 1: the laundry. Matt right, Okay, so then what happens and
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Speaker 1: then she vanishes? Um. I had one witness that said,
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Speaker 1: I think I don't think she ever went across the street,
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Speaker 1: and I had another one to tell them. I said, yes,
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Speaker 1: she crossed the street, so she had to have come back.
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Speaker 1: And of course the laundry matters, you know, Nancy is
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Speaker 1: it's a noisy place. You've got wash shoes and dwighters running.
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Speaker 1: And so we did not know if this was just
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Speaker 1: a quick abduction. And then we talked to Sandra, who
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Speaker 1: we give a lot of credibility of Sandra, and she says,
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Speaker 1: oh no, she was kicking and screaming. He threw her
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Speaker 1: over the shoulder and threw her in the car. And
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Speaker 1: Sandra resolved for us to this point, the fact that
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Speaker 1: whoever did this was alone just one moment. And guess
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Speaker 1: who we are talking to now. Take a listen to
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Speaker 1: possibly the only eyewitness to the kidnap of nine year
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Speaker 1: old Debbie Randall. Sandra, what made you decide to come
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Speaker 1: forward this much later? My sister worked for Cobb County Gale,
10:48
Speaker 1: and she told me the case had been reopened, and
10:51
Speaker 1: I thought it had been closed all a long time ago,
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Speaker 1: and I told her I saw it happened, and she said, well,
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Speaker 1: somebody might be calling union in touch with you, and
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Speaker 1: I said okay. And that's when she was talking to
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Speaker 1: a detective and I called her one day and she said, well,
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Speaker 1: this is going to that and she put him on
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Speaker 1: the phone and he asked me if I would be
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Speaker 1: willing to talk to detective next and from their own
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Speaker 1: as as just connection to you, Santra. I know it
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Speaker 1: was a while back, but please put your mind back
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Speaker 1: to the evening Debbie disappeared. What did you observe lady
11:37
Speaker 1: might get her where they thought they got hurt. There
11:42
Speaker 1: was like a playground that was behind the law dramat
11:45
Speaker 1: and also a place there where you would go and
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Speaker 1: get Line Morris to cut people's grass. And there was
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Speaker 1: a tree right there beside the laundromat where there was
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Speaker 1: no window. Is there anything on the side. I've seen
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Speaker 1: this black pick up up stop. The driver got out,
12:03
Speaker 1: left this door open, let's the truck running. He ran.
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Speaker 1: He went over to Debbie. He grabbed her and she
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Speaker 1: was kicking her feet and kicking, kicking real hard and
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Speaker 1: screaming and yelling. And he had had her over his shoulder,
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Speaker 1: so she was screaming and kicking. He threw her in
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Speaker 1: the truck and then he almost ran over me. What
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Speaker 1: did the truck look like? All I know is it
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Speaker 1: was a black truck because I was twelve years old.
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Speaker 1: But I can remember like it was yesterday. I've had
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Speaker 1: nightmares about it. Ever, what did he look like? He
12:45
Speaker 1: was a white man, and I was maybe a hundred
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Speaker 1: forty ft to eighty feet from him, so I couldn't
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Speaker 1: tell you what he looked like. But I and I
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Speaker 1: could tell he was white. And and do you recall
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Speaker 1: what he had on? He had a pants and shirt,
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Speaker 1: but I, I mean, I don't other than that, I
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Speaker 1: just looked long pants and a shirt. And I remember
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Speaker 1: because um, I looked at somebody that was walking with me,
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Speaker 1: and I said, did you just say that? And when
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Speaker 1: I heard her screaming yell, and I said, oh, somebody
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Speaker 1: has done got in trouble. And I mean he almost
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Speaker 1: like I said, he I must have fell because I
13:32
Speaker 1: got up. Was when I did. I accustomed as he
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Speaker 1: went by me, but he went out. Did you think
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Speaker 1: that was her father? I didn't know. I just thought
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Speaker 1: it was I didn't know because I didn't know Debbie myself.
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Speaker 1: I had not had had met her or anything like that.
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Speaker 1: Is the way I found out about it was the
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Speaker 1: next day I had went to the little store that
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Speaker 1: was in the marryat a place and her brother there
14:00
Speaker 1: was handing out flyers asking if anybody had seen anything
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Speaker 1: or hurt anything. And back then I told him that
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Speaker 1: I would talk to somebody because there was no other
14:13
Speaker 1: way he would have been able to get out except
14:15
Speaker 1: could go if he I lived on Fourth Street, and
14:19
Speaker 1: if he went around Fourth Street, he would still hit
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Speaker 1: furber On Street. If he had went straight, he would
14:24
Speaker 1: hit further on Street. I had another girl with me
14:27
Speaker 1: is because we were taking her clothes to the launder
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Speaker 1: back and I mean, I don't I don't know what
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Speaker 1: happened was her because back then seeing that the Tectis
14:37
Speaker 1: says she was just I don't know, I don't know,
14:40
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what was going on with her.
14:44
Speaker 1: But then I saw her later on, and I mean
14:47
Speaker 1: she had turned into an alcoholic. So you know, that's
14:51
Speaker 1: been thirty years ago at the time. Did you ever
14:54
Speaker 1: get to talk to police? Detective came to my house
14:58
Speaker 1: when I lived on Fourth Street, and that was the
15:00
Speaker 1: last thing I heard anything. I mean, did you speak
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Speaker 1: to them from there on? I didn't hear anything else.
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Speaker 1: Did you tell the detectives what you saw? Yes? And
15:10
Speaker 1: that was then, and then you never heard anything else
15:13
Speaker 1: about it. Hold on just a moment before we hear
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Speaker 1: the state's single most important witness as of right now. Listen, Sandra,
18:09
Speaker 1: you said that over these years you have had one
18:13
Speaker 1: nightmare after the next about this incident. What do you
18:17
Speaker 1: dream about? I was a street kid back then, and uh,
18:21
Speaker 1: I mean I was that year. I would have been
18:23
Speaker 1: thirteen years old, but my life had been really turned
18:28
Speaker 1: upside down. Was my mom and dad getting divorced. And
18:33
Speaker 1: I was just mean. I was just really really mean
18:36
Speaker 1: back then. I was. I really was mean, And I
18:40
Speaker 1: mean I've thought about this for forty four years, you know,
18:44
Speaker 1: and I always wondered where she was buried at The
18:47
Speaker 1: detective next told me, and so I want to go
18:51
Speaker 1: out and visit her grave and tell her I'm sorry
18:53
Speaker 1: because if it had been just a few minutes later,
18:56
Speaker 1: I had been both cider. So what is your night
19:00
Speaker 1: mayor repeat, what is the bad dreaming have? It's this
19:04
Speaker 1: dream about her and the things that she has had
19:08
Speaker 1: went through. The man who's done it. I can't see
19:14
Speaker 1: his face, but I can see him, you know, his
19:17
Speaker 1: face is It's like his face is black. But I
19:20
Speaker 1: can't he would a sun. I wouldn't say he was skinny.
19:24
Speaker 1: He was a meeting him built, maybe even a little
19:27
Speaker 1: bit chunky. I couldn't tell because of the shirt. But
19:33
Speaker 1: it just, um, it's just about her. I mean, she
19:37
Speaker 1: was an angel and they should not have happened for her.
19:41
Speaker 1: To Detective Morris Knicks, Cobb County Cole Case Unit, who's
19:45
Speaker 1: made solving the disappearance of Debbie Randall his mission, what
19:50
Speaker 1: do you make of Sandra's eyewitness account? What do you
19:53
Speaker 1: think about that? Morris? I find we had other witnesses said.
20:01
Speaker 1: I told my sister about a black truck being outside
20:03
Speaker 1: and wondered what that black cruk was doing there, And
20:07
Speaker 1: sure enough, Sandra told me immediately it was a black truck.
20:10
Speaker 1: I saw a black truck. And I'm not a psychiatrist,
20:14
Speaker 1: I'm not a trichologist, but it was obvious to me
20:17
Speaker 1: talking to Sandra, who was a street kid, by her
20:20
Speaker 1: own admission, she really was having a hard time trying
20:24
Speaker 1: to understand what a sweet, innocent little girl like Debbie
20:30
Speaker 1: once she was taken and not her and she really
20:33
Speaker 1: has a struggle with that, and she was very credible
20:38
Speaker 1: in vericon, Sue, let's figure out what we can do, detective,
20:41
Speaker 1: next to corroborate or um destroy, disprove what she's saying.
20:49
Speaker 1: We know that a box of detergent was later found
20:54
Speaker 1: right there where the witness Sandra says it happened. In
21:00
Speaker 1: my mind, that's some corroboration. Also, you mentioned that another
21:04
Speaker 1: witness reported residents in the area I think stated there
21:07
Speaker 1: was a dark pickup truck in the area around the
21:09
Speaker 1: time Debbie disappears. Is that right correct? It was actually
21:13
Speaker 1: a girl that was in the laundry mat with Debbie,
21:15
Speaker 1: and when she went in, she told her older sister,
21:18
Speaker 1: there's a black truck outside, and her sister told her,
21:22
Speaker 1: will you know, mind your own business and you know,
21:25
Speaker 1: do laundry, and so she said, I just kind of
21:28
Speaker 1: forgot about it. And so we were looking at this
21:31
Speaker 1: idea of a black truck, and sure enough, Sandra said,
21:35
Speaker 1: who was a black truck? So you've got really three witnesses.
21:39
Speaker 1: You've got the little girl, her sister, and Sandra. As
21:43
Speaker 1: my understanding, some residents had seen it earlier. But are
21:46
Speaker 1: you saying it's part right out right outside the laundry map?
21:49
Speaker 1: She just said outside. She said it was outside. And
21:52
Speaker 1: so there is a little bit. It's kind of hard
21:56
Speaker 1: to fame, but what some people would call the front
21:59
Speaker 1: of the people would all the side of the building. Um.
22:03
Speaker 1: And but we had always looked at this idea of
22:07
Speaker 1: a black truck. We know a little bit more about
22:09
Speaker 1: the black truck. The pickup truck was said to have
22:12
Speaker 1: driven right along first strate and then stop in front
22:16
Speaker 1: of Debbie Randall's home, then backed up and turned into
22:19
Speaker 1: a parking area beside the road where the detergent was found.
22:23
Speaker 1: So there must have been some kind of intersection right
22:25
Speaker 1: there there got a black truck. M hmm. Okay, that
22:31
Speaker 1: narrows it down a little bit. Also, did anybody get
22:35
Speaker 1: any idea of who any any even fleeting look at
22:39
Speaker 1: who was driving the truck? Detective Knicks, No, Sandra was
22:42
Speaker 1: the only person that we have been able to find
22:44
Speaker 1: that that's really we think so the so Detective Morrison
22:48
Speaker 1: Nick's based on what Sandra said, we're looking for a
22:51
Speaker 1: white male, medium build, long pants and a shirt who
22:54
Speaker 1: was driving that black pickup truck. And Debbie Randall was fighting.
23:00
Speaker 1: She was kicking and clawing and pumping her fist. She
23:05
Speaker 1: did not want to go after she disappeared that night.
23:09
Speaker 1: What happened that night, Detective Nix? Uh, that night, of course,
23:14
Speaker 1: when she didn't return, you know, when she wasn't found. Um,
23:19
Speaker 1: that's when they obviously called the police department. And um,
23:24
Speaker 1: what time do they call police? I think it was
23:27
Speaker 1: promptly around eight o'clock. Eight. Wow, that's pretty fastly, Egan,
23:31
Speaker 1: because she's leaving the laundry mat at seven seven thirty,
23:36
Speaker 1: she's walking home, she gets abducted by this white mall
23:40
Speaker 1: in a black pickup and all that's probably going down
23:44
Speaker 1: around seven forty. By eight thirty police are are called.
23:49
Speaker 1: A nine one one call has been made. That's less
23:51
Speaker 1: than an hourly nine year old little girl, I mean,
23:55
Speaker 1: and I think it's kind of awesome that they actually
23:56
Speaker 1: started looking that fast, and you know, instead of labeling
24:00
Speaker 1: her runaway or you know, just out playing her high. Well,
24:02
Speaker 1: the fact of the detergent, What if any other clues
24:05
Speaker 1: did you find at the same detective next other than
24:09
Speaker 1: that's about it. Did you get the direction the direction
24:12
Speaker 1: of vehicle was headed. There was two different ways that
24:14
Speaker 1: could have gone. The way that we thought he most
24:17
Speaker 1: likely went is the way that Sandra said the truck went.
24:21
Speaker 1: Um which if you know anything about Cobb County and
24:24
Speaker 1: you know we're lucky, um lacked is we think you
24:28
Speaker 1: went up of what it cla story at the time.
24:31
Speaker 1: Then uh, south cop got in front of bloke. Well
24:35
Speaker 1: this is what I know. Four days later then Captain
24:39
Speaker 1: Elliott reports police had checked out over three hundred phone
24:44
Speaker 1: tips on Debbie's disappearance, and of course a lot of
24:47
Speaker 1: crank calls. There were two ransom calls reported freaks pervs
24:54
Speaker 1: asking for ransom that did not have Debbie, and they
24:57
Speaker 1: were followed through. The people were caught. They didn't have Debbie.
25:00
Speaker 1: They were just trying to get money. Then Detective Morris knicks,
25:04
Speaker 1: there is a break in the case. Debbie's body is found.
25:10
Speaker 1: What happened, Yeah, they formed a search committee and thousands
25:14
Speaker 1: of people showed up. It had it had scared the
25:18
Speaker 1: residents and people were angry. But they formed church committees
25:24
Speaker 1: and beat a lot of students from Southern Tech volunteered
25:27
Speaker 1: and they divided them up and sent them over to
25:30
Speaker 1: um different areas. And it was a huge group, Detective
25:34
Speaker 1: nixt I mean there were boy Scout groups, Army groups,
25:37
Speaker 1: riding in motorcycle clubs, um all sorts of civic clubs
25:42
Speaker 1: like the Rotary and Chambers of Commerce. Over five thousand
25:47
Speaker 1: volunteers joined in the search. The headquarters placed HQ divided
25:52
Speaker 1: Cobb County into marked areas and assigned each group an area.
25:58
Speaker 1: Helicopters eving came in from Dobbin's Air Force Base to
26:01
Speaker 1: help find Debbie randall Uh. There were a deluge of
26:06
Speaker 1: offers of aid and Cobb County Police took everybody up
26:10
Speaker 1: on it. And then comes Friday, January, the Mariatta Daily
26:16
Speaker 1: Journal runs an editorial urging all Cobb County ins to
26:20
Speaker 1: cooperate with Operation Debbie. It was foggy and rainy that
26:27
Speaker 1: day when the largest search party ever to assemble in
26:30
Speaker 1: Cobb County set out to look for Debbie, up to
26:33
Speaker 1: five thousand people. What happened, Detective next I warned the students.
26:41
Speaker 1: Mike han Um was walking into the woods at Powis
26:46
Speaker 1: Ferry Road and he was with a fraternity group from
26:49
Speaker 1: did you say Southern Tech? Southern Tech? And he noticed
26:53
Speaker 1: that there seemed to be trail marks, the glass was unusual,
26:58
Speaker 1: the weeds were different. So out of curiosity, being a
27:01
Speaker 1: bright guy, he followed it and he said he saw
27:05
Speaker 1: her body. And he said, I just froze. I did
27:08
Speaker 1: not want to get close, and he stopped. I think
27:13
Speaker 1: he told me about twenty five yards away, and he said,
27:16
Speaker 1: I just knew it was her, obviously, and uh, at
27:20
Speaker 1: that point the discovery was made. Detective next, who did
27:27
Speaker 1: he call out to when he saw Debby's body? He
27:30
Speaker 1: called one of his fraternity brothers who were down the road,
27:33
Speaker 1: and Uh, it shook him to his core. And at
27:39
Speaker 1: this time, Mike was also a Vietnam VETT. He had
27:43
Speaker 1: already been to Vietnam prior to college. And so he said,
27:47
Speaker 1: even this just shook me up. And I can see why.
27:51
Speaker 1: Detective next, please described the way nine year old Debbie's
27:56
Speaker 1: body was found. Uh, she had on her coat he
27:59
Speaker 1: had and zipped up to her chin. Um. It was
28:04
Speaker 1: obvious that Uh, it looked like she had been redressed
28:09
Speaker 1: in a hurry, and she had been laying out in
28:13
Speaker 1: the weather. It had been raining Um, she had, you know,
28:22
Speaker 1: apparently been put there. That was not the scene of
28:25
Speaker 1: a crime. She had been transported there. You say her
28:29
Speaker 1: coat was zipped up to her chin, and she was
28:31
Speaker 1: redressed in a hurry. Why do you say nine year
28:35
Speaker 1: old Debbie Randall had been redressed in a hurry. We
28:39
Speaker 1: felt that this had happened, Um, in a hurry because
28:43
Speaker 1: she was disarrayed, obviously from lading out in the weather
28:46
Speaker 1: in the woods. It was just very disarranged. Um, she
28:53
Speaker 1: still had her socks on, her shoes were gone. Apparently
28:57
Speaker 1: he had never removed her socks. Um, she had her
29:02
Speaker 1: underwear own disarrayed, but it was on. And when you
29:07
Speaker 1: say disarrayed, what do you mean by that? Just very
29:11
Speaker 1: abnormal the way you would wear your clothes. Um. Kind
29:14
Speaker 1: of hard to describe. What was the cause of death, strangulation.
29:19
Speaker 1: She had been rudely assaulted. Uh. The Emmy's office said
29:27
Speaker 1: that had he not strangled her, she would probably bled
29:31
Speaker 1: to death. And it's just a horrific, horrific thought, the
29:38
Speaker 1: thought of that child, nine year old Debbie Randall. It's
29:43
Speaker 1: the age of my children being strangled dead, her clothes
29:49
Speaker 1: hastily roughly put back on her body. The little girl
29:55
Speaker 1: bleeding from a brutal sex attack, so ad, so badly
30:02
Speaker 1: that the medical examiner believes she would have bled out
30:07
Speaker 1: our body left there in the woods. It's almost more
30:10
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31:52
Speaker 1: Lee Egan, investigative reporter with Crime online dot com and
31:56
Speaker 1: Cold Case Unit investigator Detective Morris Nick Morris. When her
32:03
Speaker 1: body was discovered, what clues, what evidence, if any, were
32:10
Speaker 1: found on and around her body. They took soil samples
32:16
Speaker 1: from her coat and from her clothes, and the soil
32:21
Speaker 1: samples were very unique and these soil samples were sent
32:25
Speaker 1: to the FBI, and the FBI analyze these soil sand samples,
32:32
Speaker 1: and we, I say we they managed to match these
32:38
Speaker 1: at a place called Dixie Casting Stone, which was about
32:43
Speaker 1: quarter mile down the road from where she was found.
32:46
Speaker 1: And after we started looking at this, we realized that
32:52
Speaker 1: this was a very secluded place. Um, it was something
32:57
Speaker 1: you would not unless you knew it was there. You
33:00
Speaker 1: would not. You mean the company, the company, what's the
33:03
Speaker 1: name of it again, Dixie cast and Stone. What is that?
33:08
Speaker 1: What I mean? What is that? They make concrete forms?
33:13
Speaker 1: What is that? Concrete forms? Um? They usually my thinking
33:17
Speaker 1: on on bridges and roads and things of that nature.
33:21
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. I thought you meant like
33:23
Speaker 1: bird baths and columns. Okay, so you mean giant industrial forms.
33:29
Speaker 1: And since way off the road and you'd have to
33:31
Speaker 1: know it was there, you would have to know it
33:34
Speaker 1: was there, Nancy. In high school, I went up down
33:36
Speaker 1: Powers Through Road and moves times. I never knew it
33:39
Speaker 1: was there. When they said it was on Powers three Road,
33:42
Speaker 1: I racked my brain trying to figure out where where
33:45
Speaker 1: is it. It was a dirt drive at the time
33:47
Speaker 1: that went off of the road. I think to its
33:50
Speaker 1: apartment complex there. Now I'm with you on this, Detective next,
33:53
Speaker 1: I've gone up and down powers Ferry Road. In fact,
33:57
Speaker 1: my husband once lived off powers Ferry Road many many
34:02
Speaker 1: years ago, and I did not know this was there either.
34:07
Speaker 1: And I'm very curious, Detective Nixt, because this is very
34:11
Speaker 1: um advanced science in crime scene analysis. You took soil
34:19
Speaker 1: off her body, which had to be on her clothes,
34:23
Speaker 1: which had to be on her clothes or skin or hair,
34:27
Speaker 1: and you got a soil sample, and then you somehow
34:33
Speaker 1: tracked it back to Dixie cast in Stone. Now, what
34:38
Speaker 1: about that soil sample made it different from the dirt
34:42
Speaker 1: around her, the the what the ingredients and cement or what.
34:47
Speaker 1: We were told that this particular it was actually sand.
34:51
Speaker 1: This particular type of sand came from the Mississippi Louisiana area, UM,
34:59
Speaker 1: and that's what made it unique. And I talked to
35:03
Speaker 1: the owner of the company. They are still in business,
35:05
Speaker 1: or not at that location, but they're still in business.
35:09
Speaker 1: And I talked to his son and he said, oh yeah,
35:13
Speaker 1: He said, you could have driven around behind those sand
35:15
Speaker 1: pits in the back and nobody would have ever heard you.
35:19
Speaker 1: But you would have had it was there. You would
35:23
Speaker 1: have had to known that you could go black there,
35:26
Speaker 1: and you would not be discovered. Where on her body
35:30
Speaker 1: was the soil sample found? Was it on her clothes,
35:32
Speaker 1: her skin, her vagina, her hair? Where was it predominant?
35:37
Speaker 1: Came up for clothes, her clothes. That says to me
35:40
Speaker 1: he took her out of the vehicle and actually assaulted
35:45
Speaker 1: her there on the ground for her clothes. But interesting
35:52
Speaker 1: if it didn't come off her body, very interesting, But
35:58
Speaker 1: it tells me, like you said, the location where her
36:02
Speaker 1: body was found was a tertiary crime scene. You've got
36:06
Speaker 1: the car, it's primary, the kidnapping, this sex assault would
36:10
Speaker 1: be there behind Dixie cast and stone because that soil
36:15
Speaker 1: that's sand from the Louisiana or Mississippi area would be
36:19
Speaker 1: nowhere else other than they're making the cement. And then
36:25
Speaker 1: the tertiary scene, of course, is the disposal of the body.
36:28
Speaker 1: Now who would know that. I'm just kind of overwhelmed
36:35
Speaker 1: that you have managed to piece those puzzle, those pieces
36:38
Speaker 1: of the puzzle together. I assume there was no surveillance video? Correct? Correct? Yeah? Man?
36:44
Speaker 1: Was there a security watchman? No? Mm hmmm? And was
36:49
Speaker 1: it locked? I mean could you get in and out?
36:51
Speaker 1: There was no gate? And no, you could just drive
36:55
Speaker 1: down there and there was really nothing. There's nothing to
36:59
Speaker 1: steal then you could do and unless you wanted to
37:03
Speaker 1: steal some sand, there's nothing to take. Okay, let me
37:07
Speaker 1: let me think. Let me think. What else did we
37:10
Speaker 1: learn from the body or anything around the body? Was
37:14
Speaker 1: anything left behind a sock, um, d na um, anything
37:19
Speaker 1: anything at all? A cigarette wrapper, a cigarette anything. The
37:25
Speaker 1: only thing that we found, and I said we they
37:28
Speaker 1: found at that time when they did find a pair
37:31
Speaker 1: of glasses, Um, we had glasses. It was it was
37:37
Speaker 1: next to the body. So you made adult reading glasses
37:41
Speaker 1: or sunglasses or what. Yeah, they were beating glasses reading glasses. Huh.
37:48
Speaker 1: And I assumed that they were analyzed to determine what
37:52
Speaker 1: was the prescription for them, and then various uh tometrists
37:56
Speaker 1: were checked to find out who would field it. We
38:00
Speaker 1: are working on that. So that was not done at
38:05
Speaker 1: the time. Is that correct? No, No, it was not
38:07
Speaker 1: done at the time. That's a boo boo. But let's
38:10
Speaker 1: be happy about the sand. Uh. So the glasses were
38:14
Speaker 1: found by her body or at Dixie Casting Stone, by
38:19
Speaker 1: her body, by her body? Anything else? Was there a
38:23
Speaker 1: rag she had? Um she had in charty ragon or
38:29
Speaker 1: vaginal area? Um, we be need that he did that
38:34
Speaker 1: because she was bleeding profusely and he did not want
38:39
Speaker 1: her to bleed in her truck. I believe that's why
38:41
Speaker 1: he did that. Hold on, I'm just trying to get
38:45
Speaker 1: this in my head. So that would have been that
38:50
Speaker 1: would have occurred while she was alive, because once she
38:56
Speaker 1: was dead, the nine year old little girl, the bleeding
38:59
Speaker 1: wouldly have stopped because your heart is no longer pumping
39:03
Speaker 1: blood through your body. So while she is alive, this
39:07
Speaker 1: nine year old girl, the purp stuff's a rag in
39:14
Speaker 1: her to stop the bleeding. Your belief is so she
39:18
Speaker 1: wouldn't bleed on his car. I believe that's why he
39:21
Speaker 1: did it. Yeah, oh man, this is a death penalty
39:24
Speaker 1: case if there ever was one. So then he puts
39:30
Speaker 1: her underwear and clothes back on over that. Correct, she
39:37
Speaker 1: puts her underwear over the rag. Okay, let me let
39:44
Speaker 1: me think. Let me think. So you've got the rag.
39:46
Speaker 1: What kind of a rag was it? Was it a
39:49
Speaker 1: bath wash cloth? Was it an industrial rag? Was one
39:52
Speaker 1: of those things you wash your car with? What was it?
39:55
Speaker 1: It was a pointed piece of cloth? Um? It was dirty, um,
40:00
Speaker 1: greasy um. That makes me also think that probably it
40:06
Speaker 1: came out of a vehicle that, um, you know, possible
40:11
Speaker 1: work vehicles, like a machinery rag. No, it was a
40:16
Speaker 1: machinery rag. It was just I don't know if it
40:19
Speaker 1: came from a gown or from a sheet. Um. I've
40:23
Speaker 1: never had watched an old cleaning like somebody tore it
40:26
Speaker 1: apart like um, you know, to use as a dust
40:30
Speaker 1: cloth or something, and then they used it applied to
40:33
Speaker 1: like black grease for machineries. That what you're saying. And
40:39
Speaker 1: I have often wondered, and I still wonder if he
40:44
Speaker 1: thought she was dead, didn't realize she wasn't. And because
40:50
Speaker 1: he stops like a quarter I mean just right down
40:53
Speaker 1: the road and he takes her out in the woods.
40:57
Speaker 1: And I think that's why I think possibly worked there,
41:02
Speaker 1: because he knew that if he left the body that
41:05
Speaker 1: it might come right back to him, that they would
41:07
Speaker 1: look at im very very very clever detective knicks. So
41:13
Speaker 1: he either worked there or had worked there, or knew
41:17
Speaker 1: someone that worked there to know about it. The location,
41:21
Speaker 1: and because a random killer just leaves the body, there
41:26
Speaker 1: is no transference to a third location. You killed the person,
41:30
Speaker 1: you either rob or assault the person and leave the
41:33
Speaker 1: body and high tell it. Okay, so this means a
41:37
Speaker 1: cover up. But why a cover up? Well, let me think.
41:42
Speaker 1: Let me think about this rag. It was torn out
41:46
Speaker 1: of a bigger piece of material, like a sheet or
41:50
Speaker 1: a towel. You said it was printed. What was the print? Um?
41:57
Speaker 1: It had just um little designs, kind of hard to describe.
42:01
Speaker 1: I had little designs on it, Um designs of what nature? Flowers, stripes,
42:07
Speaker 1: polka dots, paisley What if I it was flowers? Flowers, flowers? Okay,
42:14
Speaker 1: let me just tell you right there, that came from
42:16
Speaker 1: a woman, That came from a home, because well, not necessarily,
42:23
Speaker 1: that could have come from anybody. But what guy is
42:26
Speaker 1: going to go out and buy sheets with flowers on him? Nobody?
42:29
Speaker 1: I know, maybe, but that indicates to me it came
42:34
Speaker 1: from a family home. Um, it didn't come from a hotel.
42:39
Speaker 1: Came from a family home where a woman was or
42:42
Speaker 1: had been present at some point. All right, And you're
42:46
Speaker 1: saying you think it was part of a sheet or
42:48
Speaker 1: part of what possibly part of a sheet, a part
42:51
Speaker 1: of a gown. Um, it was very dirty and um
42:59
Speaker 1: that that's what we had on that. And what about DNA?
43:05
Speaker 1: Forget the ride, what about DNA Okay, here, here's where
43:09
Speaker 1: it gets interesting. Um, when we first got this case,
43:14
Speaker 1: when we first looked at it, Um, that's of course
43:17
Speaker 1: what we would know, is there anything? And we were
43:19
Speaker 1: telling nope, it's been too long, we won't so well,
43:22
Speaker 1: let's just try let's just give it a show. What
43:25
Speaker 1: made you try it after all that time? Honestly it
43:29
Speaker 1: was it was just let's try anything at this point,
43:33
Speaker 1: even if it's not really rational, Let's try it anyway.
43:37
Speaker 1: And John Dog was the case administrator or a lead
43:42
Speaker 1: detective with our unit when said, John, let's let's contact
43:46
Speaker 1: the DNA people and just see if we've got a chance.
43:50
Speaker 1: So we sent it in and um, they did get
43:56
Speaker 1: a DNA profile even after all these years, because Mary
43:58
Speaker 1: had a police department had preserved that evidence. Thank goodness.
44:03
Speaker 1: Hold all right, right there, I want to say something
44:06
Speaker 1: all we ever hear about is oh so and so
44:08
Speaker 1: lost the evidence. They destroyed the evidence. They did this,
44:11
Speaker 1: They messed up the evidence, they touched it, they contaminated it.
44:16
Speaker 1: That is abnormal. That is the aberration that normally doesn't happen.
44:23
Speaker 1: And because Cobb County preserved the evidence, you submitted this
44:29
Speaker 1: for a DNA profile, you know the public that you
44:33
Speaker 1: know you see it on TV. You only it's like
44:37
Speaker 1: you don't call the cable company to say, hey, you
44:39
Speaker 1: guys did an awesome job today because I gotta watch murder.
44:42
Speaker 1: She wrote, awesome. You only call when you're angry or
44:47
Speaker 1: it's not working right. So it's just like the news.
44:50
Speaker 1: You see the bad news because you don't want to
44:51
Speaker 1: hear Oh, it's a sunny, beautiful day outside headline. No,
44:55
Speaker 1: So what people hear about are the aberrations of when
44:58
Speaker 1: evidence gets screwed up up or somebody intentionally messes up
45:03
Speaker 1: or negligently messes it up. The norm is it's not
45:08
Speaker 1: messed up now, thank you Heaven, because this evidence was preserved. Now,
45:15
Speaker 1: tell me about what happens when you decide to try
45:19
Speaker 1: to get a match. We send in the cloth the underwear. Um,
45:25
Speaker 1: we got a DNA profile from the perpetrator, from the perpetrator,
45:30
Speaker 1: not from nine year old Debby from the killer. Okay,
45:33
Speaker 1: go ahead, correct, we've got it from the perpetrator of
45:36
Speaker 1: the underwear. And um, and I assume it's not blooded semen. Correct.
45:44
Speaker 1: And John called me and said, we got we got
45:47
Speaker 1: a profile. Oh my stars, hold on just a minute,
45:50
Speaker 1: detective next. Every time I talked to you, something you
45:53
Speaker 1: say gives me chills. And right now I've got him.
45:57
Speaker 1: I can just see you pulling over and they say,
46:01
Speaker 1: we gotta profile. I just it's kind of hard to describe. Um,
46:07
Speaker 1: I was actualing my way to a fishing tournament lake
46:09
Speaker 1: you follow, and um, I don't think my mind ever
46:14
Speaker 1: lived that second the whole time I was there. So
46:19
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Okay, we were gonna run this through uh
46:22
Speaker 1: a database now from a database, and we're gonna get
46:28
Speaker 1: a hit, and this is, you know, case closed. Well,
46:32
Speaker 1: we didn't get a hit, and there's a lot of speculation.
46:38
Speaker 1: And one thing I'd like to say, Nancy, is I
46:41
Speaker 1: know this long shot. I know it is. I know
46:44
Speaker 1: that the probabilities are not good but possible. And people
46:50
Speaker 1: say to me, why don't you let it go? You
46:53
Speaker 1: know it's been years. If he's alive, he's you know,
46:59
Speaker 1: and tell them miss it. For me, this is no
47:02
Speaker 1: longer about conviction as much as it is closure. Her
47:06
Speaker 1: mama wants to know before she dies who killed her baby.
47:11
Speaker 1: And for me, if we get a conviction, great, But
47:16
Speaker 1: even if he's dead, even if he's buried, somewhere. I
47:20
Speaker 1: want to know who he is and I'm absolutely committed
47:25
Speaker 1: to that even if I never get a conviction. Detective
47:29
Speaker 1: Morris Knicks, Cobb County Cold Case Unit. I'm with you, Detective.
47:34
Speaker 1: I want to know who he is and I want
47:37
Speaker 1: to know that he's headed where he belongs, which is hell.
47:43
Speaker 1: The case goes on in the search for justice for
47:46
Speaker 1: nine year old Debbie Randall Tipline. Anyone with information please
47:54
Speaker 1: call Cobb County Coal Case Unit seven seven zero five
47:58
Speaker 1: to eight three three to seven, seven zero five to
48:03
Speaker 1: eight three oh three two. Detective Morris Nicks, Thank you friend,
48:09
Speaker 1: Thank you Nancy for all you do. Thank you very much.
48:12
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Speaker 1: joining us and listening today. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
50:24
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,