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112. When Fear Does the Talking, Connection Gets Lost · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here along with my amazing co-host, this podcast with Dr.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Palina.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So nice to be here with you.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And hello, everyone.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we're so excited to be here.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's the end of October, and uh, well, Halloween is just right around the corner.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um we're not here to scare you, though.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to do the exact opposite.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Give you the tools to make you feel safe and connected at work.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And also, of course, because these tools are so valuable, they can help you with everything that you do at home and in your relationships in your life.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: So we're so excited to talk today about such a great topic.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And my mom doesn't know yet.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So even better.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I would every time we get on this podcast to record, you know, my mom and I start having these conversations about what we're gonna talk about.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then I tell her, let's stop and just hit the record button because the conversation is so good.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is the stuff that we want to be sharing with you guys that are listening or watching because we love talking about this and it's just impacted our lives in so many positive ways.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I am so happy to be here, mom.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy too.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: What a great introduction, right?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's true.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: We want to share this amazing, amazing process of connecting and creating stronger relationships.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I can't wait till we have a talk show.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like a like a right, wouldn't that be so fun?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like people can call in and ask us questions, right?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It will be like Polina instead of Oprah.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or it could be like the Dr.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Lola show.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so a few days ago, I was walking down the street and next to Adelina's school.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So for those of you who don't know, I have a daughter who's my youngest daughter, is her name is Adelina and she's 11 years old.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I was walking to her school for this like costume party event that they were having.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so next to the school, there was like a little bookstore.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a little house, you know.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen those things where you put it on the side of the road?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then the people, everyone like kind of fills it with their books that they want to give away, and then you like take a book or whatever.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, like I love reading, and uh especially around the kids, you know, I don't want to be on my phone, I want to be reading a book in front of them.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: So they think like that's really valuable and important.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, of course, I open the door uh to this little book library, and I find this book.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the book is called How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's probably like, I think it's it's a very old book, it's from like 1990s.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's 990.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, I think it's even before then.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: 80, 1980.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: I remember reading this book.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Many, many readers.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It was so interesting, really, really interesting.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it tied so well into what happens in the office in the corporate world.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which also brings us to the discussion.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be talking about Prince Harry today and what's going on in the situation.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't heard what his situation is with his family, we want to kind of touch on that as well because all of this topic ties in with that.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I open to the very first chapter, and I'm waiting for the kids to be doing their performance.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the first chapter is helping children deal with their feelings.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, this is chapter one.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and it's really interesting.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: They go through the like a conversation that the mom is having with a child, kind of like row by row.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and what I noticed immediately was where we start to number one, as parents, not accept our child children's feelings, okay, and number two, as a child in that situation, how we learn not to trust our own intuition and our trust ourselves.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so it was so interesting.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, you know, a child can say, I'm tired, and the mom can say, What are you talking about?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: You just had a nap, right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be tired, yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or the child says, It's hot in here, and the mom says, It's cold, like keep your sweater on.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and then the child says, That TV show is so boring, and the mom says, It wasn't, it's very interesting.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's so interesting, and that was like on page two of the book, okay.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking, like, how does that translate into our life now as adults in the workplace?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: It happens like these same exact conversations happen now, every single day in every situation we have at work.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought this was so interesting because let's really first, I want to take a kind of take a step back and look at it from your perspective, Dr.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: What happens?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Why do we have that experience in our childhood where we share an experience that we may be having and it's true to us, and immediately the parent is like not even accepting the experience that we're having?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say that that's a great experience, right?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just awareness, like realization that we actually do that.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think we we lose the attunement, like we are not in tuned, like we we don't even recognize what's going on with us and what's going on with the child.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because if the child says, I'm hot, and we made a decision to give Gim a sweater, and we start to feel like, no, it's not hot, it's cold.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: You need to keep your sweater on because of our fear that the child might get cold and get sick.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we bypass it so quickly, and we respond, no, it is not hot.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Keep your sweater on.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing happens in the office when the person says, Oh, um, for example, you know, this this yeah, I don't know.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, an example could be like if someone says, Um, like, oh, this is how we need to set up the format for the project so that we could present it this way, for example.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and someone says, No.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, like, what are you talking about, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Though we we are not going to present it this way, we're gonna present it right, you know, a different way.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there's an immediate response because of our own fear that is happening with us, but it's very difficult for us to slow down.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not really attuned to slow down to our own experience to say, like, what's going on?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me more, right?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: We are we are just going so fast.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: When I was talking about the story, I saw you kind of like zoning out, like you were kind of thinking back to maybe your own experiences.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really funny because I was talking to someone about this, and I was like, you know, in our relationship, for example, it was so it was so common.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember a lot of the times where I shared something and it was like, no, and sometimes we do it's so true.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I see that same thing with my relationship with my kids and also my relationship with my coworkers, you know, like how our drive to reject someone else's experience or perspective or truth comes from our fear, yeah.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the fear ends up talking, it becomes the voice of our decisions and our behaviors and our day-to-day actions.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: That fear becomes our voice.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: When that fear is not loud, you know, when that fear is not present, it doesn't have you know space to speak, then what is that other part of our brain that's working, that's creating like those really strong, you know, responses?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Responses, yeah.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, definitely there's uh right the amygdala senses the danger, the disconnection, and then we respond.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we I had this experience today, this morning.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was do I was um actually working on the on a exercise with Jack on his chapter he wrote about self-care.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and it says, like, the first thing is you need to think about your own experience when you get stressed.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do yourself on your own to calm yourself, to create self-care?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can take a breath, you can go for a walk, and or you can listen to the music.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I say, like, well, for me, I don't want to do self-care in that moment.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I want to reach out to the person and reconnect.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I will reach out to you, Jack, or I will reach out to Paulina, I will reach out to other people, and I want to reconnect.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not interested to do self-care in that moment.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But he said, like, but no, this chapter is for self-care.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to also learn how to calm yourself down if the person is not available.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then I said, okay, I'm going to use my reconnection form, but still I want to reach out.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in that moment, as he was sharing, like, yeah, we can do self-care.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, it doesn't work for me.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: It will not work for me because I'm a pressure by nature.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to resolve it right now.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to minimize my time when I'm disconnected to back to connection.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, disconnection is like death.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I cannot really work, I cannot do anything, I cannot focus on my life or my work when I'm disconnected.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, when I'm disconnected, I want to reconnect.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's my goal.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So in the same way, when the other person is disconnected, I mean, I think when people are connected, they're a lot more flexible, they're a lot more patient, they're a lot more open to other people's experiences.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: When they feel disconnected, they can't.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: They they end they're rigid, so they they're not open to other people's experience.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very difficult for them to even explore.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible to do self-care?
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, for me, not, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because my the disconnection for me is life and death, so to speak.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: But what I'm talking about is, yeah, that all that makes sense.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm asking is when the fear, okay, so our fear is big and speaks and kind of is the forefront of making our decisions when we don't create space and understanding of that fear and get the validation we need and get like the feelings that we need to help that fear become small.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's our driving force.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: So when that fear is big and it is our driving force, we tend to struggle with making the right decisions for an easier and a path of less suffering and a more successful life.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that fear is taking over, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yes.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and also when we feel fear, we're only gonna make decisions what is good for for us, like for me personally.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I'm if I have this big fear, that means I'm alone.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I if I cannot reach out to the next, you know, to the person who I am I can confide and and get support and reassurance, then that fear takes over, and then I'm going to be just you know thinking about myself.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very so but when we are able to like make space for that fear and use the process to really help diminish the fear, what drives us then to make decisions?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: What is that yeah, that's what is that moving force?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: What is the drive?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So if the fear is the moving force that is constantly giving us um that motivation to say, like, no, you're not cold.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, you know, put on us this TV show is educational.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, we're not gonna do the presentation that way.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: That fear is driving us to say that, kind of you know, we are rejecting any kind of other options or other opportunities.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the drive when we can use the process to diminish that and to to make that fear very small?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: What is that driving force then that comes through?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: The driving force is safety.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: When we can recognize our fear, we we we can slice it thinner, this fear when we can chop it up into little pieces and we can articulate and recognize we no longer overwhelmed with that fear, so our nervous system is a lot more relaxed, and now we can experience other options, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Other options.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're looking for?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm looking for what I'm looking for is fear is an emotion, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but the fear is emotion starts because of there's disconnection in the relationship.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I'm secure in my relationship, I will not be as fearful as if I'm disconnected.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, okay.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: So when we're disconnected, fear drives our decisions, yes, because we have this innate need that we can't survive if we're alone, right?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so that fear of being alone becomes really great.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: When we're not disconnected, when we're connected in in relationships that are thriving and we don't feel alone, then what are those emotions that drive us to what is that emotion that drives us to make these decisions in our life that puts us on the best path?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Joy love, yeah, right?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like love, love, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Love is what drives us because we are inspired, we're motivated, we we are connected to our heart.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're connected with other people because we don't feel alone, but we're connected to our heart and what our passion is.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So love becomes imminent in our decision-making process, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but this is what's so interesting.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: When a co-worker or a boss or a parent, okay, rejects because of fear.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: How many times have you heard someone say we did it out of love?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's true.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Parents often say that, yes.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: We do it because we care about you, we love you, but that's not actually what's happening.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Psychologically, in a way, in a way, like if if if uh the child says, No, I don't want to go to school, and then the parent says, No, you have to go to school.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is how we do it, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: If the child feels that my parents don't even care about my feelings, they're not ex they're not really understanding how difficult it is for me at school or what's happening with me in my relationship at school, and they're not taking the time to understand what's child what the child is going through, then the child gets the message that my parents don't love me.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: They don't care about me.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then the parent says, No, we made you go to school because of our love.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I didn't feel that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's uh it's always it's not the decision, but it is how the you are doing that and coming to that decision.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And are you giving the the new corrective emotional experience to the child and to the each other at work?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so this brings me to the topic on Prince Harry.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because we have the situation, maybe you want to kind of share what the situation is about, which is like him wanting to reconnect with his family and be accepted into his family again, but not change those same patterns of communication that they've had since before they were disconnected.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that's that's the whole point because they want to reconnect, they want to be accepted, like you said, but they're still doing the same ineffective strategies of doing that.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're like they're criticizing, judging both sides, right?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: What I what I see, like Prince Harry and Meghan Markle, they are using these strategies of trying to express their disappointment, trying to move forward and saying like family is really important.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: But King Charles and Prince William, right, and uh uh Princess Catherine, they are experiencing their own abandonment, rejection, and blame and criticism.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: So both sides are really long for connection.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: They do long for connection because they are relatives, they are connected, they're attached as like siblings and the father still with the son.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, they feel both hurt and they feel both unfairly judged and criticized and maybe rejected, abandoned, all of these feelings.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they are valid on both sides.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: But the problem is if they continue to blame and judge and criticize each other or withdraw and avoid these conversations, they will continue to create these patterns that continue to hurt each other and create embarrassment, humiliation in front of people in public, you know, everybody's everybody's judging them and criticizing them.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it becomes very, very difficult.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very important, like for Meghan Markle and Prince Harry to create a secure bond with each other.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when Megan gets insecure and feels scared, she she needs to stop complaining or criticizing, but she needs to share her emotions and reach out to Prince Harry and say, I get so scared when I'm next to Prince William or Princess Catherine because I feel so judged.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he can respond to her, I'm right here, you're not alone, I love you, I care about you.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the same thing happened for Prince Harry.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: My gosh, I feel so rejected by my family, I feel so um alone, I feel so hurt, and I feel like I failed as a son, as a brother, and she needs to say, You are here, I'm here with you, you're not alone.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're not having these type of conversations.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what they're doing is they continue to fuel the negative cycle by all of these words and and and comments that continue to create more and more distant and hurt feelings.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And which kind of just ties me ties back to what I was saying at the beginning, which is like from the very beginning, we struggle with accepting a person's experience.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's difficult for them to even accept what each of their experiences are before they even come to have a conversation to try to reconnect with each other.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like so common that I see this in so many situations where it's like, oh no, that's that's just like they're making that story up in their head.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: I hear that, you know, or no, that's not.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, what happened.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like accepting the experience of how they are feeling in the experience and recognizing that both people can have different experiences in that moment, I feel it would be so much easier for them to come together and have that experience.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: But we can't, we can't actually even get to that point unless we are attuned with what is happening within us.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the that's the biggest point you just made.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, is that if we're not in tune with ourselves, what is happening for us, and we're not expressing it that way, how can people accept our experience?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're coming across, we're sharing it through uh judgment, criticism, you know, like saying, like, can you believe it?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how she talks to me, how can you believe it?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: She when we share experience, we mostly talk about the other person.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: We don't talk about ourselves.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very hard for us to understand the other persons that we need to accept their experience if they continue to blame and judge the other person.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: How can they do it?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Don't they have any sense?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh is this is this the right behavior?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is the wrong behavior.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a judgment coming across.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's hard for us to uh to accept when we're not tuned in.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also hard for us to accept when we get hurt.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like this morning, you know, my sister and I were like we're on the phone with my mom, and uh you know, she was asking about my mom's how she's feeling.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: I interrupted and I said, Hey, how's you know, how are you doing?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I don't want to talk about it.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I won't talk about my mom.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so the way she said it, it triggered me, and so I got hurt.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so these little things, now I'm sitting and I'm in the dark, I'm in the hole, you know, leaking my wounds, and it's very difficult for me to get back.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: To get back to myself, and it takes me some time, and I go to my MC journal, you know, I'm trying to understand my emotions.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: But if I am not understanding what is going on for me, I'm going to only blame my sister and say, look, she just doesn't even care.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm asking her how she's doing, and she's just cutting me off.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're supposed to accept my experience when I'm judging my sister.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: But if I talk to you and I say, you know, I was in conversation, and wow, that really triggered me, and it hit my raw spot of rejection, and I felt so hurt, and I felt so sad that we got disconnected, and I felt like I was thrown out of the balcony.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now you can accept my experience.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we just had this situation yesterday with Ellie and Adelina, because Ellie was telling me a story, and Adelina interrupted.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and Ellie got very hurt.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: But not with Adelina, but with me, because I wanted to hear what Adelina had to say.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we these are little things that happened, but uh it throws us off balance, especially with people who are very important to us and also who we still don't have a secure attachment with.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like my sister and I don't have a secure attachment, so I'm gonna get triggered a lot quicker with her, even just with a little tone of voice, a change of heart.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like I felt like she's annoyed with me, yeah, yeah, right?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like irritated uh voice, and like, oh my gosh, right?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I go into that uh response.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: The same thing with you and Adelina, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And Ellie.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah, it's so true, it's so true.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I just think it's so interesting how you know, I picked up this book.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I there was that recognition that even from the very beginning, when children are learning, you know, how to in attune with their feelings and how to tune with their experience, which is what was happening.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: The child attunes with their experience.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm cold and is constantly getting rejected.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you're not, but that's their experience, right?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't like the show.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you did, you know, and so now we are tuning to our experience from a very young age and yet getting that sign, that message of rejection from the very beginning.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we start to move further away from being attuned with what is happening within us and leaning more insecurely with understanding that they are that I don't trust myself, like my feelings are not valid.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're starting to get those messages so early on.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then those create the patterns that we experience in all of our relationships.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with Prince Harry, um, I know that we didn't really give a background, but if he didn't hear the story, Prince Harry is really wanting to reconnect back with his family and they move back to England.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're kind of in and it's all public, which makes it, I feel, even more difficult, right?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because it adds that entire other layer of being embarrassed and kind of ashamed of the relationship.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: But as you can see, you know, there's still that underlying desire to be close and together, right?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like the path to get there is very messy when you don't have the roadmap that gives you a direct and clear understanding, you know, to the light, you know, to back to being connected.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I hear reporters, for example, uh shame them and say, like, oh, they they need to apologize, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like if they would just come and forget, you know, say, um, we are so sorry that we have trashed you and we have made all this uh movies and and series about you and we talked so badly.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's still not going to fix the relationship.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think if uh Prince Harry and you know his wife Megan would understand what's happening, they could actually turn it around.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: They could change the negative cycle into a positive pattern by saying they are so important to us.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we know we were stuck in a negative cycle.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can acknowledge, I think you can take a responsibility and say, yeah, I had no idea.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know how to share my hurt and my triggers.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say that my family is so important to me.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I care about them, they matter to me, and I value them, and I want to repair the connection because I care about them.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we got stuck, and I want to hear about how it hurt them, what we did.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to share my experience, what happened to us when we were originally as a family.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because it all started when you know Prince Harry got married, and then first uh Megan was very, very uh nice, but then she got stressed by feeling criticized and judged, and she didn't do this way and she didn't do that way, and she felt like every step of her way like was watched and criticized.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: She was she was very much worried that she's not good, she's just not accepted, just like what you said.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: So crazy, it's like full circle, you know.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Everything that we do ties us back to these patterns.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're just not we don't we're not equipped, we're not equipped to use these tools to create these positive patterns in our relationships and in our life.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't mean you have to stay with it, right?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and it doesn't mean you don't have to be stuck, right?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's never too late to change the pattern too late, yeah.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: To change the cycle, to change the pattern.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so definitely Prince Harry and Megan uh Markle can learn how to create that security within each other so they can continue to create this bridge toward his their family and create safety because once they create safety, they will pull closer.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: King Charles and uh Queen Camilla and Prince William and Princess, they all will create safety enough for them to come closer and have the conversation.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: They need you, Dr.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: They definitely do, they need this process for sure.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, I agree.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is great.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think the for those of you who are listening or watching, the first step is to just recognize that there is hope, there is a way, there is a path.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can learn how to use the process, the forms, you can learn how to use the validating phrases, you can learn to use the tools to really attune to your needs and your emotions, your fears, your feelings.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you can get really clear on what is happening with you.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that clarity gives you that motivation, drive, and empowerment to move forward to reconnect with the people that you're struggling with the most.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And one last thing, I just had a session with um these two co-workers, the people on my team, they are they don't have an issue with each other.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the one guy has an issue with another team member, and so he has just been racking his brain trying to figure out how to communicate with her about this issue that he's really struggling with, but he's sharing it with this other team member.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were both on the call, and I said to him, Okay, like we can just go through the form and just do your session, you know, like we could just do your part so you can get clear on what the cycle is and what's happening and what you're doing and how you're taking part in it.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like he didn't even realize it once we finished his part, he didn't even realize what was going on with him.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he didn't even realize what was happening and he didn't notice.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he was like, wow, this is so helpful.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is very clarifying for him.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then he can go and make the decisions that he needs, whether it means to talk to the other team member or whatever that is.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's so empowering.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's again, over and over again, we talk about is once you articulate, organize, put your emotions in order, you suddenly see other options.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that feels very transformational.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for listening.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for watching.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Polina, and I'm here co-hosting with Dr.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you have any questions or you need us, because we know that you do, you can contact us at Lola at emcleaders.com or Polina at emcleaders.com.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, you can go to our website, emcleaders.com, to find out more information on our training programs.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Give us a call, let us know what we can do to support you create a thriving environment in the workplace.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And as always, thank you so much for watching.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're so grateful for you, or thank you so much for listening, and have a wonderful, amazing, and safe Halloween.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Dr.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, anything else you'd like to add?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: This was great.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll see you next week.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a joy to share these podcasts with you.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure to check out our previous podcast and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of The Leader in You, brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, be well and be focused on your relationships.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you soon.