Latest / Two Broke Chicks / How To Find Calm In The Chaos Of Your 20s & Beyond ft. Zoë Foster Blake

Transcript

How To Find Calm In The Chaos Of Your 20s & Beyond ft. Zoë Foster Blake · Two Broke Chicks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: This podcast is recorded on gaddigal Land Always was, always
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: will be Aboriginal Land. Hey Chicks, I'm sal and this
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: is Two Broke Chicks, the show that shares life lessons
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: and tips to help make you rich in life. And
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: today we are joined by Zoe Foster Blake, author, entrepreneur
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: and founder of Go to Skincare. Today we're talking about
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: how to actually practice being present, business mistakes that led
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: to big life lessons, and why telling ourselves things will
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: calm down soon is the biggest lie ever.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the shows.
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  Speaker 3: I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you, ladies.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: We were so excited. We were saying before that we
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: were really cool about it, and I do believe the
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: words I'm obsessed with you came out of one of
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: our mouths, not me maybe, but yeah, so we played
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: it really cool guys. But yeah, we're so excited.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: But before we.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Jump into the questions, we always start off with our
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: life lesson of the week, So would you like to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: kick us off like ash and my gosh.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: My gosh, You've got me at the tail end of
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: a week in a health retreat and so I'm being
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: bundled up and sent out into the noisy world. So
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: my answers will probably be woo woo. But I've spent
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: a week in nature with my mother and sister, and
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  Speaker 3: you just don't do that as you get older, there's
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  Speaker 3: always children and work and partners and so on. So
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  Speaker 3: just to lock into the feminine energy, shall we say,
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  Speaker 3: in my family was very special for a week, and
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  Speaker 3: I regret not doing it more of film.
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  Speaker 1: Oh that's amazing. I think I need to I need
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  Speaker 1: to take that life lesson and apply it to myself,
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  Speaker 1: because my life lesson of the week was sometimes the
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: crash out is necessary and because one we're in a
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: lure toal phase, which fuck that bitch, dude, I'm in
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: the first day of my period. Yeah, so you're like,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: you're getting out of it.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow, I'll be like, have a release. Esterday, I'm like, and.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Yesterday was just one of those days, like every message
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you get not something's not right with it. You've got
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: to fix something, you gotta do something. And then the
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: last straw was like me filming a video and then
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: posted it and it was blurry and the like, the
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  Speaker 1: reaction did not correlate equally.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: With the with the crime.
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  Speaker 1: I threw my phone, I started crying and I was like,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: nothing goes right. I'm texting sal who's literally like so busy,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: being like fucking hate, like full blown tantrum. And then
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I felt better, like and sometimes, like I know, we
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: will have those moments been like, oh, you know, like
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  Speaker 1: works not everything and this isn't that, And I think
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  Speaker 1: that's so valid, But sometimes you just need to have
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: a screaming fit and a good cry and like hate
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: everything within your vicinity for.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe like twenty minutes.
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  Speaker 1: And then I came back and I was like, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: who's that day?
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  Speaker 2: Oh it's crazy? Yeah, yeah, and.
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes a crash out as necessary. But then the thing
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  Speaker 1: that brought me back, which is so lame but kind
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  Speaker 1: of what I'm like, I need to just re center
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: a little bit on what you're saying as well, Zoe,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: was it was like a sound from the movie Eternal Sun,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: trying of a spotless mind, m hm. And then I
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: looked around and my cat like came and cuddled me,
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  Speaker 1: and I was like, would I rather have that comment
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: or my cat be really like healthy and be cuddling me,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and like, would I rather have that really annoying thing
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: that happened with an email or not have like the
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: amazing friends I have around me, and every time I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: picked the thing that pissed me off, like I would
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: rather have the main comment and still have you know
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: what I've got, rather than lose that and not have that.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, focus on the positive, yeah, which I know, like.
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  Speaker 1: Potentially borderline toxic positivity that I'm not like trying to
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  Speaker 1: like say that, No, it's fine.
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  Speaker 2: I'm that's so happy.
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  Speaker 1: I love when people are mean to me online.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, like yay, thank you.
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  Speaker 1: That's why it's important to have the crash out and
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  Speaker 1: not be like it's fine, Like yeah, just having a
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  Speaker 1: bad day, Like sometimes you do need to be like,
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  Speaker 1: but like if I could change it and lose you know,
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  Speaker 1: these things that I have, I actually wouldn't. So I'm
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  Speaker 1: like that kind of was like, all right, it's not
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  Speaker 1: that bad, then, is it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it.
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  Speaker 1: Can't be can't be that bad if I still am like,
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  Speaker 1: but look at all this amazing things that I have
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  Speaker 1: in enough gratitude, bitch, but like I love it. Yeah
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  Speaker 1: that I was just like I'd still rather not have it,
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: but that'd be idea. But yeah, so if you're having
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: a crash out, crash out, maybe get a cat.
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  Speaker 3: I love you.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 1: My life lesson is shifting gears here hit me, and
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  Speaker 1: it's that I learned this on the way here today
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  Speaker 1: this morning. The first lesson is that there is going
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: to be a biopic about the band Kiss.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't realize that was happening. I love Kiss.
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  Speaker 1: I did not know this was happening. But there's also
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: so many that I feel like I'm losing track. But
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  Speaker 1: the thing that I learned this morning is that who
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: do you think is playing Paul Stanley, the front man
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: of Kiss. I'm going to be so real with you.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: They all are the same man to me, the.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: One with the stars.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I don't even know that the one with the
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: star he's the lead singer. I'm going to just chuck
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: one out because there's like, you know, the seven flavors
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: of the Internet's Boyfriend. I'm going to throw out Jacob Lordie.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, they do everything.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: It's Nick Jonas.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: What Nick Jonas is playing Paul Stanley from Kiss?
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And he will be singing. I am so.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Introdused, Okay, Okay, yes, very interesting. Not sure if I
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: see the vision, but I'm hoping. I like to be
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: proven wrong.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting, no one else has been cast.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: It's Kevin Jonas brothers die, and then the fourth one,
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: the cat who's the one that everybody forgets about, will be.
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  Speaker 2: Their little brother. Surely, yes, gotta be that. Okay, I'm
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: into it, So stay two.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Now we've got our really equally philosophical life lessons out
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  Speaker 1: of the way, let's jump into the questions. Okay. In
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: our first segment, we're gonna talk calm, career and chaos.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: We kind of alluded to the quote and also the
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: name of your book, things will calm down soon, And
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  Speaker 1: it feels like both a hopeful mantra and a bit
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  Speaker 1: of a wink, because like, does it ever really calm down?
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: You know? And with everything you know? That's it? Actually,
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  Speaker 1: thanks so much for listen to the episode, guys, But no.
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  Speaker 4: Like with everything you've built, I mean, books, beauty brands, babies,
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  Speaker 4: how do you find calm when chaos feels like constant
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  Speaker 4: companion through like every decade?
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  Speaker 3: Great question, and I don't have a perfect answer, and
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  Speaker 3: it definitely evolves. But the first thing I do if
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: I have a moment like you were having where something's
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: something online is usually a big trigger because it's public
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  Speaker 3: facing and I worry about you know, I'm responsible for
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: a brand and a company and things like that. Is
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: to not have a phone with me, put that away
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  Speaker 3: and get into nature. That's usually my first protocol. And
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  Speaker 3: a walk can fix most things, and a sleep can
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  Speaker 3: fix a lot of things. And some food often helps.
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  Speaker 2: Like that we're all.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Hierarchy, yeah, one hundred percent. And having a good talk
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: to someone event I think we call them because I
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: don't want feedback. That would be my husband's role. But
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  Speaker 3: I think it's important to step away and get some
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  Speaker 3: perspective because as you mentioned before, it's never that bad
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  Speaker 3: and you can definitely full. You find yourself in an
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  Speaker 3: echo chamber where you believe those things are real, and
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  Speaker 3: then I'll walk into the kitchen and see my children,
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  Speaker 3: all my cats, my husband, real life things I can touch,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: you know, it's have a banana, get your feet in
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  Speaker 3: the grass, that sort of thing, which is a joke,
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  Speaker 3: but I think it's actually really important. And I think
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: being in a green environment is really helpful for me.
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  Speaker 3: And also I would say sleep is I can handle
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: most things if I've slept. Mostly if I haven't slept,
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  Speaker 3: everything is hard and I'm a lot more vulnerable to
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  Speaker 3: really irrational responses, and so I've learned to just like
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  Speaker 3: I'm not perfect like you are, Like it definitely wig
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  Speaker 3: out at things, but I just keep that shit locked
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  Speaker 3: down and get into nature and it's never as bad
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  Speaker 3: later on.
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  Speaker 1: I like that because as well, it's like it's not
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  Speaker 1: you don't just find one fix and go ook done. Now,
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  Speaker 1: I'm never going to crash out. Things are going to
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  Speaker 1: be calm forever. Now. It's like finding the process and
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  Speaker 1: the tools to maybe be like, this will happen again.
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  Speaker 1: This is but it's not this like looming dark cloud
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  Speaker 1: of being like, Okay, there's so many bad things in
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  Speaker 1: the future that I'm going to have to deal with.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe it's like looking at those things and being like
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  Speaker 1: they're gonna happen, but I know how to deal with it.
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  Speaker 3: Also, I am also kind of okay with things not
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  Speaker 3: being calm. It's how I function best, and that might
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  Speaker 3: be unhealthy or toxic. But I like being productive. I
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: like having a lot of things going on. I like
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  Speaker 3: my brain being busy. I think I take it too
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: far sometimes, but I think compartmentalization is really important as well.
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  Speaker 3: So make time for your work, make time for your family,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: and make time for novel writing, for me, for your
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: health and all of those things, and commit you know,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: and also to take back the agency and go. Things
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: are not calm and I like it. And if you
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: can put a positive feeling around it and it's not
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: toxic positivity, it's not going everything's fine always, it's going,
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: Shit's gonna get real. What are my coping mechanisms? How
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: am I gonna be able to do better next time?
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: Because you know, being like again, the irrational responses. I'm
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: not proud myself. I try not to judge myself too
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: harshly and I just need a snack, yeah.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: Or relatable And I think that's a good way to
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: look at it too, because chaos isn't always a bad thing.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Having a super busy step isn't always a bad thing.
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  Speaker 1: And something that we're constantly told is that we need
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: to be present. But that can be really bad when
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: you are somebody who is really productive and career oriented
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and you're always looking towards the next thing, the next deadline.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: How do you actually practice being present rather than just
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: acknowledging I need to be present.
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: It's a great question because I think intellectually academically, socially,
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  Speaker 3: we are aware of that threat of being present all
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: the time. It's like protein. I'm always getting yelled at
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: about oh god so, and I have this thing where
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: if I get told to be something, I want to
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: rebel and reject and not do that and avoidance. No thanks.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: So I am bad at being present. I will own
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: up to that, and I'm working on it. But I've
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: come to realize that I'm aiming for a bit more
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: of a macro presence rather than like a daily or
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: even minute presence. So my goal for this year is
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: to be a lot more present with my children and
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  Speaker 3: my family, because last year it was all business, and
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: the year before that was all book. So that's my focus.
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  Speaker 3: And I sort of manipulated a little bit by because
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: if my child and I think a lot of parents
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: will agree if they say, you know, if they want
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: to sit on the rug and do a tedious block
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  Speaker 3: building or dull activity, freely struggle and I start cleaning
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: the bedroom, or I, you know, I do a silly
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: character and try to get out of it and it's awful.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: So I realized I'm good at active presence with my children,
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: not seated face to face presence. So I'm like, let's
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: get outside and do something. So it's like parallel presence
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: where we're both in an activity together because I can't
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: sit still. So I forgive myself on that front and
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: I go, we're still going to have a beautiful time together.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: I just can't sit on a rug and play trucks. Yea, yeah,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: And I'm not going to beat myself off over I'm
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: just going to find another avenue to connect with my child. Yeah,
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: and being present all day is I don't have I
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: can't do it. Yeah, it's an impossible task, but yeah,
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  Speaker 3: I know it's important. And I do do things like meditate,
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  Speaker 3: and I think that gives me little spurts of it
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  Speaker 3: to get through.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: It's also like, how do you accept the fact that
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: you're just better at some things than others.
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  Speaker 3: I think you go back to what you're saying then
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  Speaker 3: finding your rhythm and what you're good at. And that's
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: a dangerous path as well, to only go I'm good
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: at this, therefore that's all I do, and we should
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: try and push ourselves in the other direction because that's
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: where we need to grow.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Out.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: I need to learn it as well. But I realized,
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: like for example, in holidays, some people's idea would be
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: like I want to line the beach with the book
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: or next to the pool. That's my hell. Please know,
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: I realized that I need a costume, a routine, and
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: to be in natured. So for our family, it's like
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: bike holidays, or we did safari, or even on a
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: health retreat. You have a uniform, you have to get
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: up at a certain time, there's a meal time, there's
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: something to do. So that struck sure allows me to
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: be free, allows me to give up and go a
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: bit limp and just go Okay, someone else is in control.
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: I have to think about anything, but I'm still being
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: active and present. It allows me to be more present
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: because the ship that I normally have to take care
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: of is not there. Yeah, that's a new one for me.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I like that though, because I think a lot of
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: people feel guilty if they can't just sit by a
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: pool and read a book, and they're like, what's wrong
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: with me?
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: Like why can't I just relax? I can't find it
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: really hard.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: It's small doses, in.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: Small doses, but I think our attention spend's shot.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you alluded to this before, but your
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: life straddles a lot of different areas, like you've got
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: your business, books, your family, of course, how do you
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: maintain balance on like a random Tuesday, Like what do
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: you do to stay grounded when you are so busy?
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: I think also I have given up on the idea
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: of balance, or rather I now see balances like if
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: you think of a plank on a ball, that's always
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: like this. It's unwavering, it's not steady and locked. Even
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: if you try and balance on one foot, there's going
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: to be some work to stabilize. So I'm really okay
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: with this going up and down all the time, and
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to expend all this energy trying to
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: find this perfect work life balance because I'm a bit
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: more everything everywhere, all at once. That's my That's how
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: I roll, and that's how I am, and I'm okay
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: with that. What I do think make that work is
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: the Again, the sleep hygiene is so critical because I
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: think we all know the effects on your brain and
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: your body and your mood if you don't get good sleep.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Never a phone in my bedroom, Like this is the
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: shit we do in our house, and we're training our children,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: we're role modeling that and staying off things that are
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: bad for me, like social media.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you kind of mentioned before that you have
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: like a uniform for your day, right, I'd love to
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: know what are those things that are like your non
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: negotiables for your Tuesday for you to have the goal
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: of a good day.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I like it, and I think that going in
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: with a good intention is really important as well. My
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: Mum's always telling me that, you know, the first thing
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: you do, put your feet on the ground when you
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: get out of bed and just thank yourself you're here,
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: you made it, you're doing great, thank you for being
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: here and showing up, and then get into it. I
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: think one of the key things for me is taking
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: the noise out of decisions. So I have finally found
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: my perfect breakfast, which seems like a silly thing, but
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: it's taken me years and now I'm repeat, repeat, repeat,
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: and then lunch can become breakfast so then I can
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: have my eggs and fun stuff. Yeah, my god, I've
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: got a hack that's just it's just changed my world.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: In terms of eggs, I cook them in thick cream
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: instead of butter. I saw it on Instagram or something,
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: but instead of using butter, to like fry slash poach
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: your eggs, use like a poor of thickened cream. It's amazing,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, rusty sodo with avocado, and then put
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: the everything bagel.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Ye, everything bagel spices.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: We're with you.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, do it, it's can we go? That's go hungry?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, shifting gears ever so slightly.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: But you once said a Karen is just.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: A Cindy that needs love, which is fucking iconic. But
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: can you elaborate what did you mean by that? And
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: how can we apply more compassion, especially when the world
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: does feel judgmental and reactive and a little too online.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: We've all had moments we're not proud of, and often
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: you know it's hormonal, I think, or you haven't slept,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: or you're just having a ship day and we're yeah,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: it's I think the first step is to not judge
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: people in those moments. Some people are just having a
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: shitty day and some people are monsters, but that's okay.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: We've got to give them the benefit of the day out.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: I think particularly this kind of this was raised in
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: the context of customer service with go To and how
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: I feel customer service is a very, very important tenant
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: for us, it's as important as product or marketing because
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: if someone has bothered to invest with you and try
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: your products and then they've felt like it hasn't delivered,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: and they've then taken more time to email you feedback,
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: which ultimately all feedback we welcome because it has really
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: changed the direction of our brand in a lot of ways.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: A lot of times. Then they are first of all
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: oda response, but their old consideration. And I think a
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: lot of people just want to be heard and seen,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: and we don't know where they're coming from, what they're
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: coming on the back of. You know, they could be unemployed,
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: have a sick mother, have a sick child. Like you,
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: just don't know someone's situation. We all know that. And
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: I think the minute you show someone kindness in that
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: moment and the compassion you were referring to, they feel
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: seen and heard, which is all we ever want. And
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: they are pretty locked after that because you took the
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: time to personally a human being doing it, saying hey,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: thank you so much, we're really sorry. Can we fix
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: this for you? How can we solve it as soon
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: as possible? And thank you for telling us, because this
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: might happen to somebody else. And so I think that
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: role modeling and teaching people that if you're going to
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: yell and someone treats you with kindness, maybe they'll think
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: about that the next time. Yeah, instead of like just
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: going in attack mode on people.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Do you think like self trust comes into it, that
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: that helps maybe dealing with feedback and also just like life,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: that big old thing like self trust obviously plays a
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: massive part of dealing with, you know, all these big, scary,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: looming things that we have to deal with when we're
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: growing up. And I would love to know what self
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: trust looks to you now versus when you're in your twenties.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: So different, and I think, I'm not sure how old
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: you ladies are, but there's not a lot of me
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: that wants to be my twenty year old self again.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: I'm so unsure. I was insecure, really trying to find
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: my way in the world. I'd moved from the country
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: at seventeen to the city with no friends, no money,
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of things, and it was my formative year
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: before I went to UNI where I learned so much.
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: But my twenties, what I will say is that that
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: self trust was certainly developing. What I had back then, though,
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: was and I thank that person because she took risks
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: and she had energy and I was like working full
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: time writing books, blogging, like I just went for it
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: and everything she did back then because she had nothing
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: to lose, she had no responsibility, she didn't have a
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: company or a family or a mortgage any of those things.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: She could just go for it and so love her
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: very grateful. Now it looks different because instead of I
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: don't really have that same energy or appetite, I am
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: more using my experience and the wisdom that I've gleaned
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: from other people and my own life experience and what
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: I've done to trust my decisions going forward. So I'm
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: still okay with risk, lot more measured now, and I
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: think that's a sign of growth and evolution. You know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to take those same risks that I
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: did back then because I was foot loose, some fancy
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: free and who cares. I didn't give a fuck. But
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: now I'm like, oh god, you know, I've got to
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: really think things through and be a bit more commercially
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: minded or you know, time, just think about my time.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: If I want to do that, well, that take me
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: away from my family and love them both. They're just
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: just different. Yeah.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: And I think as well, you've probably like learned from
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of the risks that you took, so that
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: now when you're risk assessing, you'd be like, okay, so
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: when we did this when we were twenty, that didn't
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: quite work out, So now we're going to do this
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: instead that I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense. Informed decision making, Yeah, yeah,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: which I think is an important important thing.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: To learn from our twenties or really any age.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And you also wrote Breakup Boss, a bible for navigating heartbreak.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I read this during a breakup. By the way, it
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: literally my friend dropped it over and were like, hope
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: this helps, And then when a friend went through a
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: break Yes, it's like the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: of breakup book.
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: I hear this a lot.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know where it is now, probably out there.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I wish we all like signed it.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I wish I should have.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: If we ever reprinted, I'm going to put that in
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: the front.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, being like past this to someone else and yeah,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: everyone has to sign it, and you can see all
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: the wonderful people that have been like.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the book is full of gems of wisdom.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: So what is one thing that you wish more women
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: understood about breakups, whether it's romantic or friendship or even
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: with their identity.
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good one. I think it comes down to what
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: you can control. And one of the real hope key
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: lessons or little thoughts through that book is that you
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: can't control somebody else. And I think when we're trying
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: to academically understand a breakup, like the practicality of why
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: this person chose not to be with me, or why
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: you chose not to be with them, but you're still heartbroken,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: you really put a lot of energy into trying to
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: figure out this other person's motives or why, just the
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: why and the how, and that will do your head in.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: And I think you know as you get older, this
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: idea of control the controllable, it applies to everything you
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: do in life, and it does give you this underlying
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: calm and zen because when you understand that you can't
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: control other people's lives, decisions, things that you cannot understand
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: and can't hope to comprehend, there is a piece in
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: detachment and just going I no longer attached to your
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: needs and projections, and this shit's about me, wrap it up.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Put yourself in cotton will no texting. Put yourself in
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: like an emotional lockdown, and just like go through a
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: bootcamp to try and restore yourself and love yourself and
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: look after yourself. And that's the most powerful bit of
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: a breakup is the regeneration of what's going on whilst
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: you're still grieving, of course, and that's where girlfriends and
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: friends are just the best, absolute gold. And let me
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: tell you, ladies, as you get older, those friends are
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: just the best, the best female friendships. You know, partners
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: will come and go, life happens, but the girl friends
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: the best. And when you're building up legacy friendships, like
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: I have a friend that I met when I was
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: eleven and we're still in each other's lives. But mostly
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you'll lock in, I think, especially if you're a country
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: girl who's moved to the city. Those like you know
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: late teens, early twenties, and a lot of my magazine friends,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: I just they know you so well. It's very every
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: literally say you.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Actually can't stop being friends because I know.
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: It to much. I'd have to kill you.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And I love that as well.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: With friends. We wrote a book called Finding Your People
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and in it it was yeah, and it was thank you,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: and it was like, where does like the line between
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: friendly feedback and justification? Where is that of like your
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: friends being like, yeah, look not great, but I'm I'm
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: still here for you.
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: As you get older, you don't want the fluff anymore. Yeah,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: just like fucking tell me. And my best friend will
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: be the only one who actually calls me on my shit. Yeah,
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: and not even my husband will. And so I rely
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: on those girls, that handful of women to keep me
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: grounded and be a bit mean because I need that shit.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: And otherwise I just go unfettered and think I'm amazing
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: and fabulous and I'm not sure people's feelings and not this,
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: that and the other, but those friends that I love
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: you enough to be honest, I'm writing my new book
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: is about female friendship, five girls and that mid life
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: like forty five forty sort of stuff that goes on.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: You've got a lot of shit at play. Then you've
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: got children, You've got parents who are sick and unwell.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: You've got partners that you might be drifting away from.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: You've got you know, financial pressures, health pressures. Everything fucking
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: implodes and it's a lot, and that's when the friends
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: really come through, because everything else feels a bit unstable.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: We want to chat to about career as well. And
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: you did mention previously that your start in editorial and
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: writing as a journalist and your start in beauty did
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: come from being an editor who deeply understands products and
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: people and not necessarily coming from a business background. So
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: what's one life lesson you learned starting go to that
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: no article or spreadsheet could have taught you.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, just one, so so, so, so so many. And
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: I don't want to ever dismay or tell anyone not
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: to start a business because you don't have a business background,
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: because if you understand people and you understand product or
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: you've seen a gap, you are a business person. That's it.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: That's the shit that's actually worth money. A lot of
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: people that they have money and have done business and
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: commerce and MBAs, but they don't have the ideas and
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: they don't have the community. And that shit takes time
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: and it takes integrity and people have to trust you,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: and that's the real goal. So don't doubt yourself. You've
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: got this. Also, you will learn as you go. Like
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: with everything, we're not expected to come in fully fledged,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: I know exactly how to run it, and honestly hire
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: good people who know their shit because thinking it's there's
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: a lot of hubrew's involved in going I know how
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: to run a company. No you don't. I didn't. So
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: I had a general manager, a marketing like one of
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: our directors became the managing director and he handled things
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: like inventory and logistics and fulfillment. No no, no, not me.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: Not good at it. Don't care And that's okay because
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: he couldn't do what I do. So everybody, knowing their
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: skill sets, you sort of have your superpowers and you
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: come together and make a fully formed company. And I've
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: talked to a lot of young founders and they're like,
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: I think we need to hire someone junior to just
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: help with like socials and stuff. I'm like, I would
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: really recommend not doing that, because that is your first
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: line of contact with your with your customer and your community.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: And leaving it to someone who doesn't understand the brand
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: and you know, that's a really important role. That is
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: the dialogue between you and the people. Please don't give
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: it to someone who is untrained and doesn't understand the
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: brand and the ethos and the way to do the brand. Also,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: I think hire big, spend up on like a key
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: senior staff men, because that person's going to take you
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: to the next level much faster than hiring someone under
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: you who can do the scrappy stuff. Take someone in
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: who's going to work alongside you, and it will really
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: grow your business because it's an investment that will really
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: really pay off.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: I like that. I don't think I've ever heard that
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: advice before, but it makes complete and utter sense because
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: you often get told just make the first hire and
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: like they can do all the stuff and free up
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: your time. So they telligate yeah, yeah, yeah, But that
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: makes total sense to me as well, because half the
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: time as well, like you just said, you don't know
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: what you're doing, so you need someone else to be like,
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: do you know you got this?
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Well, they're not going to, are they just fresh out
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: of uniod. I mean, we do need absolute business who
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: are able to do all kinds of things. But I
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: think hiring someone senior at your level, of someone you
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: respect and can help you in areas that you are
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: not good at or skilled at, will really help.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: I can imagine that there have been a lot of
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: life lessons we rebrand, oops moments, life lessons because hindsight,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: it's a beautiful thing. But I'd love to know what's
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: like the expensive mistake or like And by expensive, I
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: mean it could be money, or it could be like, yeah,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: time that you made that you're like, so glad you
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: learned in your career.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: I learned it late, and I put this is part
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: of the reason I wrote Things Will Come Down Soon,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: because I had just come out of a big deal
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: where I sold half of my company and then ended
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: up buying half back. But that whole process was so
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: eye opening, and I just needed to get all of
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: that business advice and wisdom that i'd learned and paid
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of money for into a book so that
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: people would learn it but enjoy it instead of it
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: being another dry business book, because we don't need another
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: one of those. There's plenty. They're great, good. But I've
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: always thought, and this was my whole principle with beauty,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: if you're having fun and you're entertained, you don't even
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: really notice you're learning. Like that was how I wanted
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: to write about beauty in the beginning and relationships, that
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: was the main reason I wrote the book. But in
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: the book, I do touch on a lot of protecting
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: your equity and not giving away too much of your
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: business at the start and treating that equity like gold.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: And I definitely learned that too late in the piece.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: And I tell every founder, like, if you don't have
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: to take in investors, if it's only for financial reasons,
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: please bootstrap it yourself, because one day your company could
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: be worth a hundred million dollars and that five percent
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: is worth a lot of money. Yeah, so hold it tight,
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: only release it when you absolutely have to. And if
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: you do do it, make sure the equity are giving
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: away is really getting good use out of that investment,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: so they have connections, infrastructure, whatever you're trying to do.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: For us, it was we were trying to go big
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: overseas and have that the boots on the ground, that
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: the people over there who could help us do that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: So it was very calculated in that sense. But if
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: you're just doing it because you think you need some
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: more money because you want to do a bigger run
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: or something, take a loan, ask your parents. I think
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: there might be other ways to do it. And then
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: when you've scaled and you're at a profitable state and
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: the company is worth a lot more. You'll be very grateful,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: not to say never take investment, but just to be really,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: really considered with it. No, I think that's good because
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: you've got the ideas, you've got the community, you've got
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: what the people with money want. They don't have that,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: So to treat it like gold because it is very special.
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: And that's how I got through millions of meetings with
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: fifteen guys in blue suits like just trying to make
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: my business to get it for a cheaper price. And
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: I'm just like, guys, we're not in distress. This business
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: is fucking incredible and you're lucky to be sitting here.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: So don't come at withe that I love like this.
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: I will protect this brand at aucust. And that's why
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: you buy it back because you're like no, no, yeah,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: you don't get their hands on this, see the vision? Yeah.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And it comes back to trusting yourself, yes, because
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of people go to that avenue
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: or seek help in those ways because they don't believe
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: that they can do it yeah themselves. And yeah, like
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: you said, that doesn't apply all the time. Sometimes it
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: is a very considered thing and it makes sense. But
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I do think that in the beginning, a lot of
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: people like I can't do this on my own, like
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I need the help of somebody else.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: But maybe you just need to take it.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: A little bit more slow and you can do it yourself.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: The transparency behind running a business is it's becoming more
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: and more transparent, like people and founders and business women
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: are opening up a lot more, but it's still from
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the outside, it's still very high glam and you know
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: the business bitch. Yeah, we still have this like, especially
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: even with like journalism, we all still are going back
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: to like how to lose a guy in ten days
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: and never wears proud of being like that looks so fun,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: which you would know because of your journalism background, but
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: it's obviously a lot more intense in the bts and
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: behind the scenes that I'm like, how do you embrace
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: I know you said that you thrive in chaos. How
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: do you embrace calm when everything feels like chaos?
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: Great question, I think, I get. I get very anxious.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: I get well, I was very very anxious, but then
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I got on hit and oh my god, I'm a
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: different person. So I now, you guys are too young
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: for that but the perimen apostle shit is real, and
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: I'm so grateful there's dialogue around it and education now
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: because I didn't know what it was still a couple
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: of years ago. And I think at the time, when
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: I was doing my deal and I was writing a
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: book and I had young children, I was not good.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: I was so anxious, I wasn't sleeping, it wasn't much fun.
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: And now I feel like a very different person. So
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: I think getting my hormones right, wow, massive massive change.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: And my anxiety still pops up, but that's probably more
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: rooted in perfectionism and wanting to do the best job
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: possible rather than the responsibility I feel as a founder
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: and someone that is responsible for a whole team and
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: at customer base as well as my family. So I
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: think that has been a huge one. And I think
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: a lot of women in their forties gas lighting themselves, going, oh,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: it's just a busy time, or you know, I'm not
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: sleeping because X, or you know things will come down
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Soon's that's the refrain that we tell ourselves again and again.
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: But it doesn't need to be that hard, you know,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: And there could be like quite an obvious health problem
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: that needs looking into and that will help a lot.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: I think that's great advice when we need to stop
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: gaslighting themselves.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: I and I was like, oh, you know it's just
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: because this or you know, if I just do this,
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: then maybe I'm not exiting the right or no alcohol
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: that will fix everything. You know, whatever it was, you
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: know that would be the fix. But surprise, it was
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: my hormones.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: If you think about what changes to your body when
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: you go through puberty or when you have a baby,
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: big shit happens. So of course when you're on the
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: tail end of all of that, big shit's going to happen.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: I think it's amazing that we wouldn't suspect that as
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: like the number one. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And you spoke about perfectionism just now, and you did
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: say in a recent interview there's this very dangerous idea
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: of perfection.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: Of course, there have been failures.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: What role do you think failures should play in our
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: lives and how do you reframe it when it does happen?
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Just a lesson? Yeah, every failure is a lesson. And
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: we're having failures from the day we're born, and whether
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: that's falling over whom we're learning to walk, or making
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: a brand that seemed like fun at the time but
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: didn't have a commercial sensibility around it. Whatever it might be,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: it's a lesson. And I feel like I've had a
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: few runs on the board, so I have the privileged success,
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: and that lends me to feel a bit comfortable and complacent,
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: and I hate that. So I want to be challenged.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: And I think people who lead an increasingly frictionless life
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: because they have more success, more money, bigger team, the
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: strivers will seek challenges and they will seek hard things.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Whether that's healthy or not. I just think that's the
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: human condition. So I like lessons because otherwise how am
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I going to grow? That's why I go no further,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. So having hard things in my life,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: like trying to write a novel or running a business, yeah,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: that shit makes me spin. I love it.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if you do this though, But
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: then if you have a bad day and then you're
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: like fucking hate this shit, being like why am I
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: doing this, and then you're like, nah, I'm doing it
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: because I love it.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: I do Yeah, yeah, I mean you have that's why
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: you have.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: To do something you love, because when you do have
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: those moments that's a failure or it's a hard day
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: or whatever. You have to be like, You're still going
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: to get up tomorrow and do it. Yeah, you can'll
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: winge about it, yeah, but I'm still going to do it.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about your beauty wisdom because you've seen many
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: skincare a trend come and go, and as someone who
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: has been on both sides as editor and entrepreneur, what
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: is the skincare truth you wish every woman would stop ignoring?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Is it going to be spa Listen. I I'm genuinely
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: astonished at where this is all heading with the girls
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: in their twenties and the guys, because I felt like
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: we were really getting somewhere and it has completely gone
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: backwards and we're into tan lines again, and there are
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: tanning products in my feet, and I'm like, how have
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: we got here? Meanwhile, people like me who are manufacturing
• 36:16
  Speaker 3: and spending tens and thousands of dollars on each product
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: to get it safe and properly ready for the market
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: and so cosmetically elegant that people will actually wear it
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: not think about it. Yeah, that's a big thing for
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: all of us is making modern sunscreens that people will
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: wear because then they can't complain about the texture. No, no,
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: we fix that. You have no excuse. Yeah, is that
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: two in three Australians will develop skin cancer at some point.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: It's a real statistic And I just don't know how
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: that message is not getting through. It's like everyone's vaping again.
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's a nihilistic tendency. They don't think the world's
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: going to be around in twenty years. But I'm really
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I'm shocked at the cavalier attitude towards cancer. Yeah. So
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: I feel like, but you know, vanity coming into it.
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: I decided at like sixteen or seventeen that I was
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: going to stop tanning because quite I didn't want to
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: look fifty when I was forty. Now I'm forty four.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: I'm proud of my skin. I stay out at the
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: sun and you can get all the lasers and procedures
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: that you want, but you cannot it will show. Yeah,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: And that's why I say your face stops at your boobs,
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: because even if you have a starting face, because you've
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: bothered to put on screen on guess what, we're always
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: showing this. We're showing this, We're showing our knees places
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: you release suspects. So please look up to your skin
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: because yes it's young and tanned and bouncy now, but
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: you will age hopefully if you're lucky.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can look after that.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: And also if you're using high strength acids, like if
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: you're in there using your own and only know and
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: you are not protecting, you're doing so much damage.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: And you did mention tan lines.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: But are there any other beauty trends or products that
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: make you roll your eyes?
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: I am pretty chill about that. I think like everyone
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: have fun. That's the ethos of go To is like
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: beauty shouldn't.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Be so serious, getting so up tired about this. It's
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: lotions and potions, have fun. You're just making yourself have
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: a nice time and ideally getting healthier skin or the
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: complexion you want. So I don't judge you on I'm
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: very prone to influence, so I buy a lot of
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: shit that I don't use much role as led you
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: name it, I've done it, I've bought it. And what
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: it always comes back to, and this is where our
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: focus is, of course, is the gold.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: Standard, very proven ingredients like vitamin C sbf AH vitamin
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: A and they will consistently get you better results. So
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: if you just did a decent daily skincare routine and
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: got the occasional procedure, you get your injections, get whatever
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: you want. But if you're just doing that on the day,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: that you will see a big, big difference.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I love that being like you have free will.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: If you want to do twelve steps two twelve step yes,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: but if you want to do two, we've got you.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: You know. That's what got to this point is like,
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: it shouldn't be that hard.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to ask you a really hard question.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: What's like obviously, parents when they have their product babies,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: it's like.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: No, you can't chuse the hyb I can't.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to know what products you think would
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: be illegal to discontinue from go to AH.
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: It's I think face Heero because it's just got, you know,
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: hundreds of thousands of five star reviews. Everyone loves it.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: It becomes like it's our gateway product. People use it
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: and then they find the whole brand because it's so
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: easy to put into your routine. I use it morning
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: at night, I use it on rashes. I use it
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: on my children. I use it every my husband use
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: it in these bid It's just especially in which it's
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: a beautiful booster and it just gives you the glowe.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: And then now we've made a clarifying version so people
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: who are like oil no, if they have digested skin
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: or breakouts, then we made a dry earl that really
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: sorts it out. And our clinicals are amazing, so I
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: feel like we've got oils covered that if you're older,
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: I would say very amazing. Retin now Retinol is what
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: most people default to, but retin Now written how to
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Hide is sort of a new ingredient and that's what
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: we use because it's a lot more tolerable, but it's
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: a lot more strong. It's well effect so you can
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: get the results without the irritation.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: What's like the most underrated product from go to that
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: more people need, that needs to be like a cult set.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: The removalist. It's the clay mask. It is so good.
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: A lot of people like our sheet mask transformazing. They
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: sell maybe one every minute.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's me, thank you, just me every minute. I
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: like walk back into Meca and I'm like another.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I use one this morning. But their their magic
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: pre event, pre makeup or if the next morning. But
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: the removal list is a clay mask, but it's very
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: hydrating and brightening, and it is a secret weapon. So
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: if you want to have good skin, that's not just
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: a serum based good skin. So Transformazing is amazing. But
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: it's sort of surface, but you are it. Just trusts me.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: It smells like bubble gum. It's fun to use. Use
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: it once a week and you'll see big, big results,
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: especially if you're having some coggestion. You can just spot
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: use it on your shie or something. But I love it,
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: and that's my secre room. So sometimes I'm just sitting
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: at my desk and I start to feel old and
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: bored and wrinkley, and I'll go and do the removal
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: list and slather myself in oils and creams and I
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: feel a million.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: But what's next? What can we look forward to?
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: So so so much coming out for go too. Wearing
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: some of the new stuff today, I'm very exciting because
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: it's that final testing where we're it's pretty much perfect.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: It's just like a tweak of fragrance. So a lot
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: to come in different categories. Oh yeah, yeah, so we're excited.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: We're very good at skincare, but we want to play
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: another areas.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, you just let that sit okay, marine,
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: but we're going to look after you and you love it.
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm yeah.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I do have one final question.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: This is incredibly selfish of me to ask, but every
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: year your husband bakes okay, yeah, yeah, to put it mildly,
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: and this has been a tradition for.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Many a years.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have a favorite cake that has been made?
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: I have a memory that always makes us laugh. When
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: he made the Uni donkey. It was meant to be
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: a unicorn, but it was for my daughter's I think
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: fourth birthday was in lockdown. We're in a rental and
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: he so he couldn't have anyone come and help, which
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: he normally has at least one guy to come over
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: and help him balance things or.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah that makes sense.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so he didn't have and it was pretty AMBITI
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: she didn't have a sous chef.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Is that it?
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: And I could still hear banging at five in the morning.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: Normally I it tapes like no one sleeps that night,
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: trust me. But by about five I was like, okay,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I need to check on this guy because I guess
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: he's repetitive banging. And I came down the stairs and
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: he was trying to make the cloud of glitter above
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: the caves it and he just looked up for me.
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: He looked so broken and drunk, quite drunk, and we
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: just pissed ourself, laughing and like on the floor. Honestly,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: he was absolutely liarious and I was like what And
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: it was the ugliest thing. The teeth was so wrong
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: and big. I mean, she loved it and it was beautiful.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: And it's the thought that counts, and the care and
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: the time and the tradition. And never know how he
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: does it because when I go to bed, he doesn't
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: know what he's doing. And then in the morning this
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: perfect perfection, perfectly to the brief. Yeah, what the kid
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: has asked for. It's like he's done it. He's never failed.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: I'm so impressed. You know, it's engineering and maths though.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: That's why I said, should I be helping?
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: This is not your areas exactly.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: Everything he's measuring is shopping. Is it's awful?
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Not, it's hard, incredible, but it's skill, yeah, believe
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: him exactly. But we do love to wrap up our
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: interviews with our guests with the same question, and it's
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: what's your biggest life lesson on your journey so far.
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: I think it is a cliche, but it is a
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: cliche for a reason, which is too trust your instinct.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: And as women, we I think we do inherently and
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: we've been taught as like as a safety mechanism to trust,
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: you know, is this the right place for me to
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: walk at night, or is this the room it's going
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: to be safe for me? Or I think we use
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: our instinct in a lot of ways that we don't
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: even really consider. But I think there's more focuses pulled
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: when you are making big financial decisions or business decisions
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: or reputational decisions. So it hasn't let me down yet
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: and it's been the thing that has guided me this far.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: And I think it's very easy to doubt yourself and
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: judge yourself and worry.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: But.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Don't just trust your gut. And there's a wonderful woman,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: Ellen Langan. She was on a podcast recently saying that
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: don't worry about making the right decision, make the decision right,
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: And I love that because you never know what's going
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: to happen. Say you get a job offer in London
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: and you're really torn.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Do you go?
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: Do you not go? Her point is if you go
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: and you believe that was the right decision, something could
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: happen and it could all fall apart over there. You
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: don't know if you stay, same thing could happen there.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: So you actually didn't You don't know, You don't know
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: what the universe holds. So just choose without too much
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: thought and make that decision, right, I feel you just
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: was my mind?
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, No, it's brilliant sharing a good word. Yeah,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: That's amazing because we attached so much to the hope
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: of making the right decision. And the gut is a
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: really important player in that, particularly when it comes to
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: selling a business and something very heavy like that. And
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: I remember asking other founders, how did you know?
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: What did you do?
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: And no one's got the clearance and there's no guidebook.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: That's the other thing, Like there's a whole business around founders,
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: like become a success. Here's how you become your own
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: boss and become an entrepreneur. And they build and build
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: and build, and they make you go to conferences and
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: panels and stuff. When you do it, crickets, who's going
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: to help you when you're a success. No one's going
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: to tell you. Oh, this is when you should be
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: hiring a CEO. This is when you should be outsourcing
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: your warehouse. This is when you should be you know,
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: doing same day delivery. This is shit. You have to
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: make up as you go and you have to hire
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: smart people to help you do that. That's amazing.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, so much.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: It has been an absolute pleasure having you on.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: And we also have a treat for the chicky. Yes,
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: so we've got a special deal just for your chicks.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Get twenty percent off your order at go to skincare
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: dot com with the code broke Chicks TNCs apply. So
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: check the description for all the dates and go treat
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: yourself and your skin. Oh my god, I'm gonna go
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: get like five billion face masks on and try.
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: The removed list of course. Course, but thank you so
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: much for coming.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Like we said, it's been a dream come true and
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: a bucket list moment for a spoise. Thank you to
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: MKA Made for making this episode of two Brea Chicks happen.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: We love being in your ear holes. Goodbye, my chicks.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Bye,