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Murder In Moscow: Were The Murders In Moscow A Thrill Kill? · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. One
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: of the main questions I have, and I'm sure most
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  Speaker 1: people have, is what motivated Brian Koberger to allegedly commit
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  Speaker 1: these crimes? And at this point, we don't have any
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  Speaker 1: solid answers. All we have is a lot of speculation
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  Speaker 1: and a lot of opinions from experts in the various
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  Speaker 1: fields that deal with these sorts of crimes. And on
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  Speaker 1: today's episode, we're hearing from another one of these experts,
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  Speaker 1: this time a forensic psychiatrist named Ian Lamoureux. So let's
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  Speaker 1: get into this article from Newsweek and let's see what Mr.
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  Speaker 1: Lamoureux has for us. Headline, Idaho murder was chasing a
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  Speaker 1: thrill kill, says forensic expert. This article was authored by
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  Speaker 1: James Bickerton. The murder of four University of Idaho students
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  Speaker 1: in the early hours of November 13th, 2022, was likely
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  Speaker 1: a thrill kill, according to a leading forensic psychiatrist. And
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  Speaker 1: for those of you wondering what a thrill kill might be,
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  Speaker 1: here is what it says in Wikipedia. A thrill kill
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  Speaker 1: is a premeditated or random murder that is motivated by
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  Speaker 1: the sheer excitement of the act. While there have been
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  Speaker 1: attempts to categorize multiple murders, such as identifying thrill killing
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  Speaker 1: as a type of hedonistic mass slaying, actual details of
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  Speaker 1: events frequently overlap category definitions, making attempts at such distinctions problematic.
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  Speaker 1: Those identified as thrill killers are typically young males, but
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  Speaker 1: other profile characteristics may vary. According to Jack Levin, director
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  Speaker 1: of the Brudnick Center on Conflict and Violence at Northeastern University.
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  Speaker 1: The major common denominator among those who commit thrill killings
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  Speaker 1: is that they usually feel inadequate and are driven by
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  Speaker 1: a need to feel powerful. To a certain extent, they,
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  Speaker 1: thrill killers, may make their victims suffer so that they
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  Speaker 1: can feel good, said Levin. Sadism is fairly common in
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  Speaker 1: thrill killings. The killer might torture, degrade, or rape his
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  Speaker 1: victims before he or she takes his or her life.
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  Speaker 1: They frequently have an ideal victim type who has certain
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  Speaker 1: physical characteristics. Thrill killers have been frequently romanticized in films.
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  Speaker 1: So just using that basic description of what a thrill
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  Speaker 1: killer is certainly could see Brian Koberger being categorized as
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  Speaker 1: that if he is the person responsible for these murders.
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  Speaker 1: Certainly could be a situation where you have a thrill
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  Speaker 1: killer who decided that now is the time that I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to go and live out my fantasies. And to
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  Speaker 1: normal thinking folks, that sounds just completely batshit insane. But
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  Speaker 1: these people aren't wired the same way that most of
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  Speaker 1: us are. And when the facade of normalcy snaps for
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  Speaker 1: these people, forget it. It snaps. Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan,
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  Speaker 1: Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin were all stabbed to death
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  Speaker 1: when an intruder broke into a shared student house in
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  Speaker 1: the town of Moscow, Idaho. Brian Koberger, a 28-year-old criminology Ph.D. student,
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  Speaker 1: was arrested on December 30th and has been charged with
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  Speaker 1: four counts of first-degree murder along with burglary. Koberger's legal
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  Speaker 1: team have indicated he will plead not guilty and he
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  Speaker 1: will seek to clear his name. Good luck with that.
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  Speaker 1: There is a ton of evidence against this dude and
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  Speaker 1: it's going to be a challenge for him to clear
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  Speaker 1: his name. And then you add in the situation with
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  Speaker 1: Ann Taylor and the possible conflict of interest and Brian
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  Speaker 1: Koberger might even be looking at having new legal counsel
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  Speaker 1: at some point. Speaking to Newsweek, Ian Lamoureux a forensic
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  Speaker 1: psychiatrist and clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at the university
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  Speaker 1: of Arizona said initial evidence suggests the murders could have
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  Speaker 1: been a thrill kill. And look, we just don't know, right?
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  Speaker 1: If we're being honest, all of these experts, all of
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  Speaker 1: these legal scholars, they're just given their opinions as well.
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  Speaker 1: Now their opinions are grounded in more education than most
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  Speaker 1: of us as far as the topic at hand. But remember,
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  Speaker 1: These experts don't have access to all of the case files.
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  Speaker 1: They don't have access to all of the evidence. All
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  Speaker 1: they're doing is looking at the circumstantial evidence that's been
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  Speaker 1: provided and giving an assessment based on that. What I
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  Speaker 1: will say though, is a lot of these experts end
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  Speaker 1: up being spot on. When you hear what they say,
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  Speaker 1: the way they break down the profile, what the person
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  Speaker 1: was motivated by, a lot of these experts, as far
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  Speaker 1: as these clinical psychologists, criminal profilers, They know what they're
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  Speaker 1: talking about and they know their business. So for me,
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  Speaker 1: I like to consume as much information as possible and
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  Speaker 1: get as much context as possible from as many people
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  Speaker 1: as possible. That way we're well armed and we're equipped
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  Speaker 1: to deal with this story as it evolves. He said,
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  Speaker 1: I have not seen sufficient information to establish a motive
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  Speaker 1: at this stage. Currently, this appears to be a thrill kill.
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  Speaker 1: The thrill could be emotional excitement or sexual. It could
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  Speaker 1: also be the thrill of executing the perfect murder. And
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  Speaker 1: that's certainly something we have to keep on the table.
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  Speaker 1: In my opinion, considering we don't know what the motivations were,
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  Speaker 1: I think that we can't discount anything that sounds logical. Obviously,
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  Speaker 1: anything that's out of there in fantasy land, that's something
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  Speaker 1: that I just discount right away. I don't want to
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  Speaker 1: hear about psychics or aliens or spirit boxes, any of
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  Speaker 1: that bullshit. But when we get the opinions of these experts,
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  Speaker 1: clinical psychologists and stuff like that, I think that that's
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  Speaker 1: worthwhile and certainly something that needs to be explored. And
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  Speaker 1: when all is said and done, it's going to be
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  Speaker 1: something like this. A thrill kill or he had some
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  Speaker 1: kind of obsession, something like that will end up being
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  Speaker 1: the motivation. Lamoureux, who emphasized that Kohlberger has yet to
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  Speaker 1: be convicted of any crime, continued, it seems as though
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  Speaker 1: there is some speculation, given his background in criminal studies,
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  Speaker 1: that this could be the motive, the thrill of outsmarting
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  Speaker 1: the authorities. I've always thought that that was a plausible scenario,
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  Speaker 1: that this guy thinks he's smarter than everybody else, thinks
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  Speaker 1: that he's going to get away with it, planned it
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  Speaker 1: for all of these months, stalked these girls allegedly. cased
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  Speaker 1: the house, knew where they worked, developed patterns, and he
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  Speaker 1: really thought he was going to get away with it. Well,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: breaking news, you're not as smart as you think, my friend.
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  Speaker 1: The adrenaline rush and excitement of the killings is the
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  Speaker 1: end goal. His online encounters with the victims, if guilty
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  Speaker 1: and accurate, could represent stalking hunting behavior that killers of
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  Speaker 1: this category exhibit as a way of stoking excitement and
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  Speaker 1: in anticipation of the murders, the thrill of the hunt.
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  Speaker 1: And it lines up. If you look at what happened here,
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  Speaker 1: according to what the probable cause affidavit tells us, then
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  Speaker 1: it lines up with this possibly, possibly being a thrill kill.
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  Speaker 1: Certainly not something that can be discarded or discounted as
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  Speaker 1: a theory right now. And in my opinion, a top
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  Speaker 1: contender for what the motivation is going to be when
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  Speaker 1: all is said and done. According to the psychiatrist, the
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  Speaker 1: murderer likely took sadistic pleasure in the suffering inflicted on
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  Speaker 1: their victims. He explained creating fear, terror, and or pain
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  Speaker 1: in their victims will increase the intensity of the pleasure
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  Speaker 1: derived from their acts. The intensely personal and unusually violent
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  Speaker 1: nature of the murders, a large fixed blade such as
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  Speaker 1: a K-bar military knife, supports this. This process of hunting,
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  Speaker 1: stalking their victims, culminating in violent homicides is intensely pleasurable
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  Speaker 1: to these individuals, similar to the rush of narcotic drugs.
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  Speaker 1: The actual act sometimes is the aphrodisiac for these people.
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  Speaker 1: And usually you'll hear about a killer like this engaging
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  Speaker 1: in sexual assault or sexual abuse, something like that. But
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  Speaker 1: some of them, the act itself, the murder itself is
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  Speaker 1: the sexual gratification. And I'm not saying that's what happened here.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. But we have seen many, many, many
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  Speaker 1: killers in the past exhibit these same sorts of behavior.
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  Speaker 1: Lamoureux emphasized that his comments were speculative as information regarding
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  Speaker 1: the defendant is extremely limited at this time. And there's
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  Speaker 1: no doubt. Everything that we talk about is pure speculation
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  Speaker 1: at this point. And it's going to stay that way.
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  Speaker 1: until either the gag order is lifted or we get
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  Speaker 1: to the trial portion of what's going on here. Because
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  Speaker 1: with that gag order, no official sources are going to
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  Speaker 1: come out and talk about what's going on behind the scenes.
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  Speaker 1: That's over and done with. But there's going to be trickles.
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  Speaker 1: There's going to be leaks. And you're going to hear
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  Speaker 1: from a lot of these experts who are building profiles
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  Speaker 1: on the alleged murderer, Brian Koberger, and using their expertise
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  Speaker 1: to do so. He added the authorities have been uncharacteristically
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  Speaker 1: non-forthcoming with information, which suggests they are very concerned about
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  Speaker 1: protecting the integrity of the investigation itself and subsequent prosecution. Well,
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  Speaker 1: if that's the case, they better make sure they deal
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  Speaker 1: with that potential conflict of interest because that could end
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  Speaker 1: up being real bad for everybody involved, the state, the defendant,
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  Speaker 1: and the victim's families. So if the integrity of the
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  Speaker 1: case is so important the way they say it is,
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  Speaker 1: then they need to make sure that they're doing everything
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  Speaker 1: in their power to protect the integrity of the case
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  Speaker 1: and not just stamping out transparency. Police have yet to
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  Speaker 1: recover the murder weapon used to kill the four students,
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  Speaker 1: though they did recover a knife sheath at the crime scene.
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  Speaker 1: Cara Kernodle, the mother of Zanna, has indicated she does
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  Speaker 1: not want Kohlberger to face the death penalty if convicted.
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  Speaker 1: Speaking to News Nation, she said, I want to see
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  Speaker 1: him pay for what he's done. I'm not interested in
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  Speaker 1: a death penalty. That's not who I am. I don't
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  Speaker 1: believe in that. But I do believe he should spend
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  Speaker 1: the rest of his days in prison. The city of
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  Speaker 1: Moscow Police Department has been contacted for comment. And I
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  Speaker 1: don't know why they continue to do that. They're not
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  Speaker 1: going to comment on any of this at this point,
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  Speaker 1: considering that gag order. So until we either get that
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  Speaker 1: gag order lifted or we get to trial, we'll continue
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  Speaker 1: to rely on the opinions and the breakdowns of these
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  Speaker 1: various experts. Alright everybody, that's going to do it for
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  Speaker 1: this one. All of the information that goes along with
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  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box.