Latest / Story Magic / 83 - How and when to apply the story point

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83 - How and when to apply the story point · Story Magic

2:28
Rachel: Hey, writers.
2:28
Rachel: Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
2:32
Emily: I'm Emily.
2:33
Rachel: I'm Rachel.
2:35
Emily: Today we are talking about how and when to apply your story point or the message of your story.
2:43
Emily: So this came from a listener, if you were not aware.
2:46
Emily: We've mentioned it a few times for the last few weeks, but if you were not aware, we do take listener questions.
2:51
Emily: So if you have a question about anything writing related, we will answer it on the podcast.
2:57
Emily: You just have to send the question over to podcastoldenmayediting.com with podcast question in the subject line.
3:05
Emily: And we.
3:07
Emily: We'll read it on air and we will answer it.
3:11
Emily: And it can be as coherent or not coherent as you want.
3:16
Emily: Usually we can see right.
3:19
Emily: Right through to the core of what you're asking.
3:20
Emily: So if you're struggling with something, write to us about it.
3:23
Emily: We'd be happy to chat it through.
3:26
Emily: So this question comes from Kayla, and Kayla asks, is it possible to back into a story point?
3:33
Emily: I have a lot of content, slash ideas that are pretty well developed in regards to how I want my story to proceed and what I want from my two main characters and their arcs.
3:42
Emily: But I'm not sure how to craft a story point from the ideas.
3:45
Emily: I have ideas that I feel passionate about, slash what to show.
3:48
Emily: I am wondering if I can take those ideas and create the story point from that angle instead of starting with a story point.
3:54
Emily: My process so far has been all over the place.
3:57
Emily: I will start to.
3:58
Emily: I will start to draft, thinking I have enough things figured out.
4:02
Emily: Then I will learn more about craft and see that I have holes.
4:05
Emily: I am a plotter by nature, but as I learn more about craft, I don't feel like I plotted enough in the beginning.
4:10
Emily: I'm going back to the basics, so to speak.
4:14
Rachel: This is a really good one and a lot to unpack here because we have both, like, a craft question and we have a process fear of, like, I'm not doing enough.
4:25
Rachel: Yeah.
4:26
Rachel: So we can start with the craft part of this.
4:29
Emily: Yeah. Let's start with the story point.
4:32
Rachel: Yeah. If you.
4:34
Rachel: If this is a new term to you.
4:35
Rachel: The story point is a term that Lisa Krahn uses and that we also use to talk about the main takeaway of a story.
4:45
Rachel: You're reading a book, you're like, why is this story?
4:46
Rachel: What am I doing here?
4:48
Rachel: What am I learning?
4:48
Rachel: What's going through?
4:49
Rachel: Like, the story point is that lesson that your character is learning and also the same lesson you want your Readers, to learn through your character's journey of change.
5:00
Rachel: We have a whole episode on story point and theme.
5:04
Rachel: It's episode 21.
5:06
Rachel: It's called theme, story, and character.
5:08
Rachel: Oh, my.
5:08
Rachel: With Emma Desi.
5:10
Rachel: So if you're like, I don't know anything about story point.
5:12
Rachel: What are you talking about?
5:12
Rachel: Pause.
5:13
Rachel: Now go listen to that, and you'll feel a lot more grounded in what we're about to talk about.
5:21
Emily: Yeah, so.
5:23
Emily: So I think they're.
5:26
Emily: I mean, the simple answer is yes, yes, yes.
5:29
Emily: You're back into a story point.
5:31
Rachel: End of podcast.
5:32
Rachel: Boom.
5:32
Emily: Absolutely. Like, I was about to dive into, like, some, like, deeper stuff, but I'm like, no, the answer is yes.
5:41
Emily: There's no right way to, like, implement a craft tool.
5:44
Emily: And I think this is kind of a process question, too.
5:46
Emily: Right.
5:46
Emily: Of. We talk about this all the time because no one talks about it enough, which is.
5:52
Emily: Right.
5:52
Emily: Craft tools like plotting structures, story point, terms like that, like, these are just tools in your tool belt for you to pull out whenever you need them and whenever you're ready for them.
6:02
Emily: And everybody's process is different for how and when they apply stuff.
6:09
Rachel: Yes. So I think, like, there.
6:15
Rachel: There are so many different pieces of, like, how characters can come to you, and a lot of people can start with, like, a really so solid vision of who their characters are and be like, I know I want to tell a story about this character because they never leave me alone, and I love them to death.
6:28
Rachel: And then you're like, well, I need to make a story point for them.
6:31
Rachel: And you're kind of doing it what I would say in massive air quotes.
6:35
Rachel: Backwards.
6:36
Rachel: Right?
6:36
Rachel: Like, but there is no backwards.
6:38
Rachel: The.
6:39
Rachel: The idea of having a story point just means that you have a central theme to your story.
6:45
Rachel: You haven't.
6:45
Rachel: You have a main lesson that you're talking about.
6:49
Rachel: But how you come up with that lesson can be at whatever point in the process that you need with you.
6:57
Rachel: You just asked me this, and I'm kind of going to go back on what you said, what you asked me, Emily, and how I answered you earlier, before we started recording.
7:05
Emily: What did I ask you?
7:06
Rachel: No, it's just.
7:06
Rachel: It's like, this is messy for me, but I think it's messy for everybody because, yeah, it is a constant revision process, too, where, like, okay, when I started writing Blood in the Water, I knew those characters first.
7:22
Rachel: I knew who they were, I knew what story I wanted to tell, and I, like, had a general idea of what the story point would be, but I definitely did not have words to it.
7:34
Rachel: When I started, like, I had characters first in that way.
7:39
Rachel: Then I started writing, and they started to have flaws, and they started to come to life, and we started to have a plot come together.
7:47
Rachel: And, like, my story is also inspired by a Japanese story.
7:52
Rachel: And so, like, I had a direction that that story went and was like, I'm not going to go exactly in that direction.
7:57
Rachel: I'm going to go in this other direction and make it different.
8:01
Rachel: And, like, take.
8:02
Rachel: Put my own spin on things and my own interpretation of how these characters would act.
8:07
Rachel: I knew them.
8:09
Rachel: Then I got to the end and was like, I kind of wrote story point.
8:13
Rachel: Maybe it's not exactly what I wanted it to be.
8:16
Rachel: So then I went back to the beginning and, like, put words to the story point and, like, revised what that story point would actually be.
8:24
Rachel: And I chose this is the story point.
8:28
Rachel: And then I made changes to the plot into the characters to meet that story point.
8:34
Rachel: So, like, even though I. It is really challenging to, like, try and take a lot of disparate ideas of, like, these different characters and their different arcs and try to come up with, like, how they're all connected, because sometimes they're just not connected and you have to connect them.
8:52
Rachel: But I didn't do that until revisions.
8:55
Rachel: Like, I didn't make those connections in a cohesive way until I was, like, able to look at the picture, the story as a whole.
9:04
Rachel: Now, for my next book, for Only Fools, I had a story point, and I was like, I have already been with these characters.
9:11
Rachel: I know what this next story point is going to be.
9:13
Rachel: I'm going to start it out.
9:14
Rachel: But I still was like, it's going to get refined.
9:18
Rachel: It's going to get honed, because the story point that I'm.
9:21
Rachel: That I'm thinking this story is about never ends up being that way, because writing is chaos.
9:29
Rachel: And then I did the same thing where I was like.
9:31
Rachel: I kind of, like, came up with it in the middle of writing that time when I was realizing the different themes that were showing up and the different, like, challenges my characters are encountering.
9:45
Rachel: Then I had, like, okay, that's.
9:46
Rachel: I. This feels pretty right.
9:48
Rachel: Let me go back and see how I can attach more things, how I can, like, bring more of this, the different pieces of my story to connect with the story point.
9:59
Emily: Yeah. And I just want to say, like, just because your characters weren't connected by the end of your first draft didn't mean you failed.
10:07
Rachel: No, not at all.
10:08
Emily: Right. Like. Like, I think that there's this right baked into this question is a very, very common and very understandable fear that you're going to reach the end of a draft and none of it is going to work, and you're going to have, quote, unquote, I hate that I'm rolling my eyes on camera, right?
10:23
Emily: Wasted time.
10:26
Emily: But, like, that's not true.
10:28
Emily: And as a plotter, I like to know, like, I start with thinking these things through.
10:34
Emily: That's kind of how my brain works.
10:35
Emily: I start at the top and with the story point, and then I kind of filter through.
10:38
Emily: But that can also be a detriment, right?
10:38
Emily: Because even as a plotter, I don't really figure out the nuance of what I'm trying to do until the first draft is done.
10:46
Emily: And so my story points usually start out very general, and then they get more specific and more nuanced with every draft that I do.
10:55
Emily: Like, they.
10:56
Emily: They get more detailed, if that makes sense.
11:00
Emily: And, like, that's just like, the process of writing, I think, is the further you get in the story, the clearer it is what you're trying to say.
11:08
Emily: And I think, to come back to the second part of this, of this question that Kayla has sent us, is this question of, like, when is it?
11:19
Emily: When do I have enough things figured out?
11:19
Emily: Especially as I'm learning craft.
11:24
Emily: And I. I did an Instagram reel recently.
11:29
Emily: I think it was a real.
11:30
Emily: Not alive, either way, an Instagram video talking about how it is so hard.
11:38
Emily: Like, there's nothing harder and more like confusing and difficult than learning craft while you're working on your first draft.
11:44
Emily: But it's.
11:44
Emily: It's unavoidable.
11:46
Emily: That's how it works.
11:47
Emily: And so for all the new writers out there, it is so normal to really struggle when you first start, because you're trying to do two very difficult things, right?
11:56
Emily: You're trying to learn the.
11:58
Emily: Learn writing craft.
11:59
Emily: Three difficult things.
12:00
Emily: You're trying to learn writing craft, which is in and of itself very difficult because you have to figure out which writing craft clicks with your brain.
12:06
Emily: What's.
12:07
Emily: What is gonna.
12:07
Emily: You know, what is gonna work for you?
12:09
Emily: That's the second part, right?
12:09
Emily: What is your process?
12:12
Emily: You don't know.
12:12
Emily: You don't know what your process is yet.
12:14
Emily: And so figuring out when to use these tools, you don't know.
12:17
Emily: So you're starting to use them at the beginning, but maybe, like Rachel, you're going to figure out, you know, through this process by the end of your first book that you like using these tools later in revisions, right?
12:27
Emily: You're still figuring that piece out.
12:29
Emily: And then you're also trying to figure out your story.
12:31
Emily: And, you know, as you write, the more books that you write and the more that you develop your craft and your process.
12:38
Emily: Right.
12:39
Emily: The easier it will be to figure out when the confusion is about the story.
12:43
Emily: And, like, you're.
12:43
Emily: You're not.
12:44
Emily: Could you just don't know the story yet versus, like, it's a tool problem or a process problem.
12:48
Emily: Right.
12:48
Emily: Like, there's.
12:49
Emily: It could be any of those things if you get stuck.
12:52
Emily: And so it's really, like, it's.
12:53
Emily: It's just normal to have, like, for it to be hard and unclear.
12:57
Emily: But that question of, do you have enough?
13:00
Emily: Like, you.
13:01
Emily: There's always enough to move forward.
13:02
Emily: There's always enough to draft.
13:04
Emily: Like, and I think we talked about this in our last episode, that.
13:08
Emily: Right.
13:09
Emily: There's no. You can't do it wrong.
13:11
Emily: You're just gonna make a choice, and then if you decide to change it later because you have a better understanding of the story or you have a better understanding of tools.
13:19
Rachel: Right?
13:19
Emily: It does.
13:20
Emily: Like, either way, if you decide to change it later, that doesn't mean you failed now.
13:24
Emily: And so what I would tell this person to do is, like, just start writing, start implementing the craft, start playing around, and take that pressure off your shoulders for it to be right before you move forward.
13:35
Emily: You have enough?
13:35
Emily: Yeah, you have enough.
13:38
Rachel: You have enough.
13:39
Rachel: Again, I think in most of the recent episodes that we've recorded, we have said, like, the key to applying this stuff is, like, understand the theory of why you have a story point and then figure out when is the best point in your process to, like, adopt that and, like, apply that into your process.
14:02
Rachel: I mean, the.
14:02
Rachel: The idea of the story point is, like, it exists to give your story direction and cohesion.
14:10
Rachel: And so it makes sense why many people suggest start with the story point.
14:15
Rachel: So you start with the direction and the cohesion, and if that works with you, great.
14:20
Rachel: If it doesn't, just know, like, we have a story point for a reason, and it's because it creates cohesive storytelling.
14:27
Rachel: So then I can.
14:28
Rachel: You can go back and be later.
14:30
Rachel: Be like, okay, I'm at a point now where at least I can see what I have.
14:33
Rachel: How can I make it cohesive?
14:34
Rachel: What are the.
14:35
Rachel: What are the common denominators here?
14:37
Rachel: And, like, that's where you get into the application.
14:40
Rachel: But you've already known.
14:42
Rachel: You know, you, like, have this thought that we want things to be connected.
14:47
Emily: Cool.
14:48
Rachel: Yeah. However you connect them, at what point is really, like, the process that works for You.
14:54
Emily: Yeah. And to go back to this idea of, like, the story point is the guiding light of, like, what your story is going to be about, right?
15:02
Emily: And you might not know.
15:03
Emily: You might not have no answer yet.
15:05
Emily: And so, like, I was listening to Saba Tahir talk about her process recently on a podcast, and she talked about how she starts with a question that she doesn't have the answer to yet.
15:15
Emily: Right?
15:15
Emily: The story point is the answer to the question.
15:17
Emily: But if the question.
15:18
Emily: Right.
15:18
Emily: If the question is how do you, how do you love when you are afraid of loss?
15:27
Emily: Right?
15:30
Emily: Like, you might not know the answer to that, but you, you have some themes in there.
15:34
Emily: And this goes back to that other episode with Amadezi where we talk about how story point and theme intertwine.
15:40
Emily: You could start with themes.
15:41
Emily: You could, you could start with, okay, the themes of my story are going to be about love and loss.
15:45
Emily: That gives you so much to work with in terms of making your story cohesive as you're exploring it.
15:52
Emily: And then eventually you will get to the answer at the end of the story as to, like, what it is that you want takeaway of the story to be.
15:58
Emily: If you don't know at the beginning, like, that's, that's fine.
16:01
Emily: You'll figure it out.
16:03
Rachel: Normal. Have some trust.
16:05
Rachel: You're going to figure it out.
16:06
Rachel: You will.
16:07
Rachel: Pinky promise.
16:09
Rachel: Awesome.
16:10
Rachel: Okay.
16:11
Rachel: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
16:18
Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
16:21
Emily: After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
16:26
Rachel: Link in the show notes.
16:27
Rachel: We'll see you there.
16:28
Emily: By H.