Latest / The Art of Adjusting® Podcast / Episode 93: Contractor Damage, Subrogation, And Smarter Claim Handling

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Episode 93: Contractor Damage, Subrogation, And Smarter Claim Handling · The Art of Adjusting® Podcast

• 0:06
  William Auten: Hello, I'm Bill Auton of Augin Claims Management.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Chantel Roberts of CMR Consulting, and welcome to the Art of Adjusting Podcast.
• 0:14
  William Auten: Today we're going to talk about life as an insurance adjuster from the perspective of property, auto, liability, or workers' compensation adjusters.
• 0:22
  William Auten: Our goal is to bring interesting topics in the world of claims adjusting to people who are working as an adjuster now and to people who are considering a career as a claims adjuster.
• 0:31
  Chantal Roberts: Hi, Bill.
• 0:32
  William Auten: Hey Chantel, how are you?
• 0:33
  Chantal Roberts: I'm doing well.
• 0:34
  Chantal Roberts: Thank you.
• 0:34
  Chantal Roberts: How are you?
• 0:35
  William Auten: Doing good.
• 0:36
  William Auten: We're keeping really busy this time of year.
• 0:39
  William Auten: It's kind of our busy season coming off of winter and all the all the slip and fall claims and stuff like that.
• 0:46
  William Auten: So yeah, we're doing good.
• 0:49
  Chantal Roberts: We are starting to get all of the roofers coming around.
• 0:54
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, I think I said last time I'm thinking about putting a sign up on the door saying that we are adjusters, don't bother us.
• 1:01
  Chantal Roberts: We know that our roof is okay.
• 1:03
  Chantal Roberts: But it bleeds into over what we're what we're going to be talking about today, which is uh construction claims and building claims in this spring now that things are thawing out, weather's getting warmer, so roofers are getting up on roofs.
• 1:20
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, you know, break the construction crews are breaking ground.
• 1:23
  Chantal Roberts: But I think you have some news, don't you?
• 1:26
  William Auten: Yeah, a little bit of news for for ACM.
• 1:29
  William Auten: Uh we recently became a member of the New York Insurance Association, and that's a pretty big step for us.
• 1:35
  William Auten: Uh, the carriers and organizations that are part of that, um, they they help to shape legislation and regulatory things here in New York State.
• 1:46
  William Auten: And um uh most of my client companies are members of that.
• 1:49
  William Auten: So uh it's something that we've been wanting to do for a long time.
• 1:53
  William Auten: And we applied and we're accepted, and uh, we're very happy about it.
• 1:57
  Chantal Roberts: Congratulations.
• 1:58
  Chantal Roberts: That sounds like it's fabulous.
• 1:59
  Chantal Roberts: And and it's and it's always good to uh be involved with legislation or in a group for all of our listeners, get involved because y'all are going to be the ones who can change things.
• 2:17
  Chantal Roberts: Um yeah.
• 2:18
  William Auten: So it's uh it's a it's not just like a networking kind of organization.
• 2:23
  William Auten: Um, they talk about underwriting, claims, legal, and regulatory things all you know at at their yearly meetings, and and uh it's a good place to be.
• 2:34
  William Auten: So we're we're looking forward to it.
• 2:36
  Chantal Roberts: Absolutely.
• 2:36
  Chantal Roberts: Since we're doing news, I this I let me look and see real quick when this podcast will come out.
• 2:45
  Chantal Roberts: This podcast will be released on April 23rd, which is great.
• 2:50
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, on May 7th, which is a Thursday, Fred Fisher and I will be doing a panel talk about the return on investment for claims, staffing, and education.
• 3:04
  Chantal Roberts: And of course, anybody who knows me knows my stance, which is the claims department is the product of the insurance industry, period, because it's not the policy, it is the promise to pay a covered claim.
• 3:24
  Chantal Roberts: And the people who determine the promise to pay a covered claim are the adjusters.
• 3:28
  Chantal Roberts: And when governing boards uh put hiring freezes on the adjusters or don't actively pay for the adjusters to pursue education, I mean, they may think that they say, yes, go get, you know, continuing education, but if they don't really, um then we've got a disconnect.
• 3:56
  Chantal Roberts: And my argument and Fred's argument that we're going to be putting forth in this panel is that if insurers hire more adjusters and educate them, they will make more money.
• 4:14
  Chantal Roberts: And it sounds counterintuitive, but we have the math to prove it.
• 4:18
  Chantal Roberts: So that's what we're going to be talking about May 7th.
• 4:21
  Chantal Roberts: It is noon Eastern time.
• 4:23
  Chantal Roberts: It's going to be a webinar.
• 4:25
  Chantal Roberts: So it's free, by the way.
• 4:27
  Chantal Roberts: Uh with the with the Academy of with the Academy of Insurance, we'll drop a link in the show notes.
• 4:32
  Chantal Roberts: Okay.
• 4:33
  Chantal Roberts: So after we've finished self-aggrandizing ourselves, because we are so grand.
• 4:38
  William Auten: We are grand.
• 4:39
  Chantal Roberts: We are grand.
• 4:40
  William Auten: The grandest of grand.
• 4:42
  William Auten: Well, that's great.
• 4:42
  William Auten: Educating people in claims is is a is hugely important.
• 4:46
  William Auten: And uh I come across um carriers that are understaffed and and don't have the talent pool that they probably should have.
• 4:55
  William Auten: And um, you know, they wind up paying claims that they don't have to and they are or shouldn't.
• 5:01
  William Auten: Um it goes to lawsuit, it just goes right to the attorneys and and they're not saving any money there.
• 5:08
  Chantal Roberts: So and so that's the whole and and and I know the knee-jerk reaction for every single CEO, CFO, uh, SOB in the governing board is oh, AI.
• 5:23
  Chantal Roberts: I I got the answer for that, guys.
• 5:25
  Chantal Roberts: AI is not the end all be all.
• 5:27
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, it it may I remind you of Colossus, but this is a whole nother podcast.
• 5:31
  Chantal Roberts: Let's go on into let's go on into um can you know it's spring.
• 5:37
  William Auten: It's springtime.
• 5:38
  Chantal Roberts: I am super excited.
• 5:40
  Chantal Roberts: I don't know about you, uh, because I know you're a little bit further north than I am.
• 5:45
  Chantal Roberts: However, I have started planting some flowers and some trees and shrubs, and they're just starting to get their little greenery and all of that.
• 5:58
  Chantal Roberts: So I'm uber excited about it.
• 6:00
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, we of course will have like 80 degree weather today, thunderstorms tomorrow.
• 6:07
  Chantal Roberts: It's supposed to be 60, and then Sunday is supposed to be 74, so woo, it's spring.
• 6:13
  William Auten: It's supposed to be 80 degrees tomorrow here and 39 degrees on Monday.
• 6:20
  Chantal Roberts: Ugh.
• 6:21
  William Auten: So I don't know what you're supposed to do with that.
• 6:24
  Chantal Roberts: No, you know, and it's amazing.
• 6:26
  Chantal Roberts: Uh we get sick, and of course, that's that's the way it is, but uh, you know, when when we have these swings going back and forth, uh we've had our ice storms and then uh snow and then all of these freezing-related claims that we have been talking about for the past what uh four weeks or so.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 6:47
  Chantal Roberts: Um, those losses are now beginning to be repaired.
• 6:51
  Chantal Roberts: Uh so and like I said, all the roofers are coming out of the rude work rude work.
• 6:56
  Chantal Roberts: They're not rude.
• 6:57
  Chantal Roberts: They are not rude.
• 6:58
  Chantal Roberts: They are very, very polite.
• 6:59
  Chantal Roberts: They are, they are very, very polite.
• 7:01
  Chantal Roberts: Um, um, they're coming out of the um woodwork.
• 7:04
  Chantal Roberts: And uh we've got water damage claims, roof and siding claims.
• 7:09
  Chantal Roberts: So we're moving on into the construction.
• 7:11
  Chantal Roberts: And so now we have new risks and new perils that we as adjusters need to be paying attention to when we get these claims.
• 7:21
  Chantal Roberts: And a lot of times these things overlap.
• 7:25
  William Auten: They do.
• 7:26
  William Auten: Sometimes the guys that come out to fix your house cause damage to the house.
• 7:31
  William Auten: And that's when we get a call.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 7:34
  Chantal Roberts: So yes.
• 7:35
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, because you know, sometimes uh, and and it I do want to point this out, and I know I've pointed it out before.
• 7:42
  Chantal Roberts: If the contractor causes a claim, you know, causes damage, like you just said.
• 7:51
  Chantal Roberts: Uh I'm thinking of a claim that my husband just just recently had where uh a plumber, I think a drywaller or a no, it wasn't a drywaller, it was a um carpenter.
• 8:04
  Chantal Roberts: Uh carpenter was putting up some something or other and apparently couldn't see the the pipe, I guess because the drywall is already in or what have you, and drove a nail into the pipe.
• 8:18
  Chantal Roberts: Well, uh you know, that was fortunately it was sealed, but then when the homeowner decided to move everything went sideways, yeah.
• 8:32
  Chantal Roberts: And and so in this particular instance, what the adjuster would need to do is not only file or act or do the claim, handle the claim for what the original damage was that was originally being fixed with a drywall waller and the plumber, but file another claim against the carpenter.
• 8:57
  Chantal Roberts: That's not all one claim because we've got two separate dates of loss, two separate causes of loss, all of this sort of thing.
• 9:04
  William Auten: Yeah.
• 9:05
  William Auten: Um so you'd have a liability claim against the carpenter.
• 9:10
  Chantal Roberts: Yes.
• 9:10
  Chantal Roberts: Um even though it's property damage.
• 9:12
  Chantal Roberts: And I do make sure that I explain that to my students because a lot of times we just think liability is only bodily injury or slip and falls and trip and falls.
• 9:23
  Chantal Roberts: No, you you can have property damage with a liability claim.
• 9:28
  William Auten: You do, and we have it a lot.
• 9:30
  Chantal Roberts: Yes, think of cars.
• 9:31
  Chantal Roberts: Think of cars.
• 9:32
  William Auten: Yeah.
• 9:33
  William Auten: Yeah.
• 9:33
  William Auten: So um for that carpenter, then um, hopefully there's someone has a written contract with that carpenter, and someone got a copy of the insurance certificate for that carpenter.
• 9:45
  William Auten: And um, you know, that you could argue that did he did he do anything wrong?
• 9:52
  William Auten: He was just putting a nail in the wall like he was asked to do.
• 9:56
  William Auten: Right.
• 9:56
  William Auten: Could he have checked for pipes?
• 9:58
  William Auten: Yeah, he probably should have.
• 9:59
  William Auten: Sure.
• 9:59
  William Auten: So I could argue that.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's what stud finders are for.
• 10:02
  William Auten: Yeah, I could argue that um, you know, he he could have made a a little bit more effort to to uh avoid that.
• 10:09
  William Auten: Um, but the next question is were were the pipes placed that close to the drywall that a nail would be able to reach them?
• 10:16
  William Auten: Because usually they're um I don't know.
• 10:20
  William Auten: I know there's all kinds of questions you could have about it.
• 10:23
  William Auten: Um that's what makes the job so fun.
• 10:26
  Chantal Roberts: I see, and that's my and that's my thing too.
• 10:28
  Chantal Roberts: It and and a lot of times I know places are are now like municipalities or codes are now saying that if you're going to have a pipe go through a particular like two by four or the frame or whatever, you're supposed to put that metal shield there.
• 10:48
  Chantal Roberts: So yeah, so that so that a nail won't do this.
• 10:51
  Chantal Roberts: Maybe that wasn't the case in this particular instance.
• 10:55
  Chantal Roberts: But yeah, you there are, if you're representing the carrier for the carpenter, there are some investigations that you need to do, and that's kind of what you were just talking about, those those things.
• 11:12
  Chantal Roberts: But if you are the homeowner carrier, you do need to make a separate claim.
• 11:18
  Chantal Roberts: These are two separate claims that you would need you so FYI.
• 11:23
  William Auten: Yeah.
• 11:24
  William Auten: Um there's there's also subrogation, you know, your carrier can pay for your damages and then go after the carpenters.
• 11:30
  Chantal Roberts: Um let's talk about that.
• 11:32
  Chantal Roberts: Can we just talk about that for just a minute?
• 11:34
  William Auten: Sure.
• 11:35
  Chantal Roberts: Um, it it seems to me, and of course, and I just did it, me personally, uh just immediately went over to filing a claim with the carpenter, which is what you should do, absolutely.
• 11:48
  Chantal Roberts: But so many, I see so many times now that insurers and or the adjusters, and I think it goes back to being well educated, is they they are telling the insureds, no, you need to go ahead and file that claim with the carpenter.
• 12:07
  Chantal Roberts: And they don't open a claim with themselves.
• 12:12
  Chantal Roberts: Uh and and I gotta tell you guys, that is bad faith right there.
• 12:16
  Chantal Roberts: And I'll tell you why is because as soon as the carrier knows about a claim, they have the duty to investigate it.
• 12:25
  Chantal Roberts: It says it right there in the Unfair Claims Trade Practices Act.
• 12:29
  Chantal Roberts: And you know about it as soon as they tell you about it.
• 12:32
  Chantal Roberts: And you, as the adjuster, are the represent or an agent, even a even an agent.
• 12:38
  Chantal Roberts: You are the representative of the insurance carrier.
• 12:40
  Chantal Roberts: And so you're kind of shooting your own employer in their foot if you don't open a claim.
• 12:46
  Chantal Roberts: And I know that some of the agents are like, I don't want to because you know their premiums can go up and blah, blah, blah.
• 12:51
  Chantal Roberts: I get that, but we don't care.
• 12:53
  Chantal Roberts: Um, what we don't want is to be sued by for bad faith.
• 12:57
  Chantal Roberts: We want to put Chantel out of business as an expert witness.
• 13:00
  Chantal Roberts: That's what we want to do.
• 13:01
  Chantal Roberts: And it's all about me.
• 13:03
  Chantal Roberts: I'm surprised you all haven't learned this by now.
• 13:06
  William Auten: I mean, well, the other thing that uh that needs to be mentioned here is that chances are you're gonna have um more benefits under your own policy than you would if you were to make that third-party claim because the third party claim is going to be subject to depreciation.
• 13:22
  unknown: Thanks.
• 13:23
  William Auten: Under your own policy, you probably have recoverable depreciation or replacement cost policy.
• 13:29
  William Auten: So um you even though you'll have to pay your deductible, you'll get that back if it's subrogated.
• 13:35
  William Auten: So um when people ask me often, you know, do I make a claim against the at fault party or should I make a claim under my own carrier?
• 13:44
  William Auten: Well, if you want it settled quickly and you want good customer service, you're more likely to get that from your own company than from an adverse company.
• 13:54
  Chantal Roberts: Look, I do both.
• 13:56
  Chantal Roberts: That's what I do.
• 13:57
  Chantal Roberts: I do both.
• 13:58
  William Auten: You make a claim against both?
• 14:00
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah, I do.
• 14:01
  Chantal Roberts: I in my particular instance, I do both.
• 14:04
  Chantal Roberts: I place the at fault party on notice because they're going to need to do their own investigation.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 14:11
  Chantal Roberts: It's going to take them longer because you're right, they don't have the same time limitations and duties and all of that to me as a claimant as they do to their insured.
• 14:23
  Chantal Roberts: So, me, I also file a claim against my own carrier.
• 14:27
  Chantal Roberts: And listen, guys, what I'm saying is that that insured, even though someone else is at fault, still has coverage for that.
• 14:35
  Chantal Roberts: So you need to open a claim and investigate it and pay what you can pay, and then you send a subrogation letter over to the at fault carrier.
• 14:47
  Chantal Roberts: Hopefully, they'll be finished with their investigation.
• 14:50
  Chantal Roberts: Here's here's also points to to consider, just like you would put your or the insured's deductible in there, like pay the deductible directly to Chantel.
• 15:02
  Chantal Roberts: If there are any non-covered aspects of my claim that I have, because that you know construction guy put a hole in my pipe or whatever.
• 15:18
  Chantal Roberts: If if that's the case, then then also put that in there, but put it separate.
• 15:23
  Chantal Roberts: Like, oh, by the way, you also owe her a thousand dollars for I don't know, mold coverage, and we have a mold exclusion.
• 15:30
  Chantal Roberts: So we haven't paid that.
• 15:31
  Chantal Roberts: And so you would need to pay um not only the$500 deductible, but the$1,000 for this.
• 15:38
  Chantal Roberts: This is what we haven't paid, but everything else you owe us.
• 15:41
  William Auten: Um we uh right reminds me of a claim a few years ago where um it was a first party claim that I handled, and um a multifamily home was struck by a delivery truck and pushed the home right off the foundation.
• 15:58
  William Auten: So the the house basically had to be completely destroyed and rebuilt.
• 16:04
  William Auten: He had an ACV policy, not great, um but the limit was very low, it was like ninety-five thousand dollars or some crazy thing.
• 16:15
  William Auten: So his damages were a lot more.
• 16:18
  William Auten: Um we settled the first party claim, but then my estimate, I furnished him with that so that he could pursue the balance of that claim um against the the trucking company, which he eventually did, I believe.
• 16:36
  William Auten: So um, yeah, bear in mind that if you don't have enough coverage under your own policy, or you don't have coverage for certain types of damage under your own policy, then you can make that claim against the other party.
• 16:49
  Chantal Roberts: Yes.
• 16:50
  Chantal Roberts: And and while we're talking about it too, adjusters, remember nine times out of ten, I think all maybe I'm gonna go out on a limb and say maybe almost all states and territories and all that do have that 100% uh made whole policy.
• 17:08
  Chantal Roberts: I mean, not all of them, but I mean the vast majority of them do.
• 17:11
  Chantal Roberts: And so you need to know what state you're in to know if you're made whole.
• 17:15
  Chantal Roberts: Because if you're making a subrogation demand and this is a perfect example where the limit is only$95,000 and the damage, let's say was$200 something thousand dollars, and you make a subrogation demand of$200,000, um, you don't get that money back.
• 17:34
  Chantal Roberts: And of course, then there's all this uncovered damage, let's say$50,000 uncovered damage.
• 17:40
  Chantal Roberts: The insured's gonna get that$50,000 of uncovered damage if they accept liability.
• 17:44
  Chantal Roberts: And then you would, you as the carrier would only get$45,000 because it's all about being made whole.
• 17:50
  Chantal Roberts: The insured, the person being made whole.
• 17:54
  unknown: Right.
• 17:54
  Chantal Roberts: They getting paid 100% of their damages, so to speak.
• 17:58
  William Auten: Right.
• 17:58
  William Auten: Right.
• 17:59
  William Auten: So on an ACV basis.
• 18:01
  Chantal Roberts: On an A C V basis, of course.
• 18:03
  Chantal Roberts: Anyway, um, but this leads to a great topic as well.
• 18:08
  Chantal Roberts: And uh we we may accidentally go into left field again uh with our replacement cost and hold back depreciation because you and I, of course, are infamously uh uh on different sides of the spectrum on what can be depreciated, but that's not what we're talking about today, but we're we're talking about whole different podcasts which we actually have talked about.
• 18:34
  Chantal Roberts: I want to say it's like back in the 20s or something like that.
• 18:36
  Chantal Roberts: Go look for it.
• 18:37
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah, um, go Google it.
• 18:39
  Chantal Roberts: Uh we're famous for it, we we debate it all the time.
• 18:42
  Chantal Roberts: Anyway, um we talked about replacement cost and whole back depreciation, yeah.
• 18:49
  William Auten: Uh depreciation is uh just the um reduction in value of a piece of property because of wear and tear, obsolescence, uh whatever, um, you know, happens to cars too.
• 19:01
  William Auten: So, you know, when you go buy a used car, you notice how it costs less than a new car?
• 19:06
  William Auten: That's depreciation at work.
• 19:08
  William Auten: The same thing happens with the house.
• 19:10
  William Auten: Um now, a house actually appreciates in overall value, doesn't it?
• 19:15
  William Auten: But the stuff inside the house, like your carpet and your paint and your appliances, those things all wear out and have to be replaced over time.
• 19:24
  William Auten: So components of a house get older and appreciate.
• 19:28
  William Auten: But a house's value on balance tends to appreciate depending on where your market is.
• 19:34
  Chantal Roberts: Yes.
• 19:34
  Chantal Roberts: And I would I would, of course, argue a little bit saying, but you you kind of dial it back.
• 19:41
  Chantal Roberts: Uh in in that, yes, houses are supposed to appreciate, but I think that is seen as an overall whole, and that is more of a marketplace issue than an insurance issue.
• 19:55
  Chantal Roberts: And this is something that is confusing to adjusters, uh, especially new adjusters, I believe, when we're talking about the the insurance value versus the market value.
• 20:09
  Chantal Roberts: And this is something you have to learn because you need to explain it to the insured when we're talking about the co-insurance requirements.
• 20:19
  Chantal Roberts: So, you know, they may feel that they are insured to value by having a house insured at$450,000 because that's what the house would sell for.
• 20:32
  Chantal Roberts: That's the market value.
• 20:34
  Chantal Roberts: But if we were to rebuild it today with two by fours and bricks and copper wiring and all of the labor that goes into it, it might be$850,000.
• 20:46
  Chantal Roberts: So at$450,000, they are way underinsured.
• 20:52
  William Auten: And so replacement cost policy, you have to kind of remember that it really kind of violates the the concept of indemnity because it's not, you know, replacement cost is not an apples to apples necessarily.
• 21:10
  William Auten: Right.
• 21:11
  William Auten: Um, so and it does get confusing when you talk about the market value of the property and the market itself can have such a uh heavy influence on the value of the property that up or down, you know, uh like you just gave an example where the home was worth less than than it would cost to rebuild it.
• 21:32
  William Auten: And if you live in a depressed area where the the real estate market is kind of depressed, then the value of that home is going to be a lot, market value is gonna be a lot less than uh it would likely cost to uh rebuild it, especially if it's an old home.
• 21:47
  William Auten: Like our house was built in the 1800s.
• 21:50
  Chantal Roberts: Yes.
• 21:51
  Chantal Roberts: So I I like to tell uh when I was explaining this to my insurance and to my My students, I usually say, look, it you can, for all intents and purposes, go to any Home Depot or Lowe's, whether it's in the bougie part of town or in the non-bougie part of town.
• 22:14
  Chantal Roberts: And a two by four is pretty much going to cost the same.
• 22:18
  Chantal Roberts: I mean, a couple of cents difference, maybe, but you know, a two by four costs the same wherever.
• 22:24
  Chantal Roberts: And that's what we're looking at, not the zip codes and the school systems and that sort of thing, which is what the the kind of like the market or retail value of your home is.
• 22:38
  Chantal Roberts: And that's a really good way to explain this.
• 22:40
  Chantal Roberts: Now, the thing is, and and I totally agree, and and I also like to kind of blow my students' minds after I have drilled into them that you are not supposed to make a profit off of insurance.
• 22:54
  Chantal Roberts: And I, and then I will immediately turn right back around and ask, is that true?
• 22:59
  Chantal Roberts: And as you pointed out, you know, because replacement costs just said my TV is worth$500, but I'm you're giving me$700 to go buy a new one.
• 23:12
  William Auten: Right.
• 23:12
  Chantal Roberts: And a better one and a bigger one.
• 23:15
  William Auten: Right.
• 23:16
  William Auten: So it it is kind of strange, but that's the premium you pay.
• 23:20
  William Auten: You know, that you buy a policy that promises to do that.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 23:23
  William Auten: And the insurance business has decided that that kind of a product is worthwhile to uh to sell to customers and to pay claims on.
• 23:32
  William Auten: Absolutely.
• 23:33
  William Auten: Everybody's happy in the deal.
• 23:34
  Chantal Roberts: Everybody's happy, except for when we get to this whole hold back depreciation thing.
• 23:42
  Chantal Roberts: And and and let's talk about some of the policy.
• 23:45
  Chantal Roberts: We need to talk about the policy just real quick, like the homeowner's policy, uh, because I think it's kind of gotten a little twisted.
• 23:53
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, Chip Merlin happens to bring this up.
• 23:56
  Chantal Roberts: And and I would encourage you, if you don't read Chip's blog, read it because it's the opposite point of view.
• 24:04
  Chantal Roberts: And it's always good to know the opposite point of view, right?
• 24:09
  Chantal Roberts: Uh and the policy, the homeowner policy basically says you have to tell us within 180 days if you're going to replace the property.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:19
  Chantal Roberts: It does not say you have to replace the property within 180 days.
• 24:24
  William Auten: You have to notify us of your intent.
• 24:26
  Chantal Roberts: You have to notify us of your intent.
• 24:30
  Chantal Roberts: So a lot of insurers are sitting there going, oh, well, six months have passed.
• 24:36
  Chantal Roberts: You passed that, you haven't replaced your property yet, Mr.
• 24:38
  Chantal Roberts: Insured.
• 24:39
  Chantal Roberts: So we're closing your file.
• 24:40
  Chantal Roberts: No, no, no, no, no.
• 24:42
  Chantal Roberts: They just need to say, Oh, yeah, we're replacing the property.
• 24:45
  Chantal Roberts: That's that's intent.
• 24:46
  Chantal Roberts: That's them notifying you.
• 24:48
  William Auten: Yep.
• 24:49
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, and if they're smart, they would of course write that down.
• 24:53
  Chantal Roberts: And if you are smart, you not only put it in your notes, but you send out a letter uh saying, I understand that you're replacing your property.
• 25:00
  Chantal Roberts: And then tell them what the statute is.
• 25:02
  Chantal Roberts: Because they definitely have to do it by the statute or file states.
• 25:05
  William Auten: Yeah, which under the policy is two years.
• 25:08
  William Auten: Yes.
• 25:08
  William Auten: Um, it's not the statute that would rule over tort claims and things like that.
• 25:13
  William Auten: It's a contractual statute.
• 25:15
  Chantal Roberts: Okay.
• 25:15
  Chantal Roberts: So now we have holdback depreciation, right?
• 25:18
  Chantal Roberts: And and they've told us that the insurance told us that they're that they're going to replace the property.
• 25:26
  Chantal Roberts: Of course, our property policies are becoming pretty tight right now because of everything.
• 25:35
  Chantal Roberts: I have seen roof schedules, like if you have a shingle, you know, asphalt shingle roof that is 10 years old, we depreciate it by this amount of much.
• 25:46
  Chantal Roberts: And if you have concrete shingles, blah blah blah.
• 25:50
  Chantal Roberts: And if you have tiles, you got blah blah blah.
• 25:53
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, there's also the thing that I was talking about earlier with with Bill and me, we we sit there and debate do we depreciate labor?
• 26:02
  Chantal Roberts: That would be in the policy.
• 26:04
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah, if we are allowed to depreciate labor and taxes and permits and not just never seen that mentioned in the policy, though.
• 26:13
  Chantal Roberts: I have.
• 26:13
  Chantal Roberts: I have really, yes.
• 26:15
  Chantal Roberts: Um, yeah, I uh they they do I've I've it happens to be manuscript, and of course, what we know is it's that manuscript means that the insurance company has written the policy themselves, but but yes, which which also means by the way, guys, that the doi has either looked at it and approved it or just rubber stamped it.
• 26:36
  Chantal Roberts: Either way, doesn't matter.
• 26:37
  Chantal Roberts: It's it got approved, so we gotta follow it.
• 26:41
  Chantal Roberts: Whether whether Chantel agrees with it or not, that's the contract that the insured signed up for.
• 26:49
  William Auten: So well, on uh on the depreciation part of it and the holdback.
• 26:54
  William Auten: So the the concept is for the uninitiated here, um, you get paid uh actual cash value up front, which is replacement cost less depreciation.
• 27:04
  William Auten: And that's the check you'll get is is you know, there's paperwork that's going to show that there's been depreciation taken off of the value of the claim.
• 27:14
  William Auten: And that's recoverable if you have a replacement cost policy, but only after you've made the repairs.
• 27:19
  William Auten: And like you had said earlier, you have to notify the carrier that you intend to make that replacement cost holdback claim.
• 27:27
  William Auten: Um, you have to notify the carrier within 180 days of the, I believe it's the date of loss.
• 27:34
  William Auten: I think there's some arguments out there that it's the date that a proof of loss was signed, maybe.
• 27:40
  William Auten: Um, I've seen arguments about that.
• 27:42
  William Auten: But nonetheless, 180 days is a long time.
• 27:45
  William Auten: Just send the the desk adjuster an email and let him know if you're worried about it.
• 27:51
  William Auten: Right.
• 27:52
  William Auten: So once the repairs are made, you can collect the depreciation.
• 27:56
  William Auten: However, the language of the policy can confuse things a little bit because a lot of them will say that it's the amount actually spent to make the repairs.
• 28:08
  Chantal Roberts: That's important, guys.
• 28:09
  Chantal Roberts: Pay attention.
• 28:10
  William Auten: So if you um if you found a cheaper contractor out there that was able to do the work for less than the replacement cost estimate that you were settled, that you settled the claim on, you're not going to get the full holdback.
• 28:24
  William Auten: Um, that's just the way it is.
• 28:27
  Chantal Roberts: And and adjusters, here is the deal.
• 28:30
  Chantal Roberts: Again, don't just cut a check that's lower than the amount of the recoverable depreciation on the estimate.
• 28:40
  Chantal Roberts: You need to explain to the insured, using your words, as in picking up the phone and then writing a letter why the the payment will be lower, right?
• 28:55
  Chantal Roberts: Because again, they don't trust us.
• 28:58
  Chantal Roberts: And what we're doing, and what Bill and I are are are advocating is how to be a better adjuster and how to get them to uh them being the claimant, either first or third party, to trust you so that your job is easier.
• 29:12
  Chantal Roberts: And we all want to have easier jobs.
• 29:15
  William Auten: We do.
• 29:15
  Chantal Roberts: Yes.
• 29:16
  Chantal Roberts: Uh so the timing disputes around scope and completed work is is also a huge thing, I think.
• 29:25
  Chantal Roberts: And I see this quite a bit as a as an expert.
• 29:31
  Chantal Roberts: It it comes up quite a bit when our insureds are unsophisticated and they don't want to begin repairs because, and we mentioned this very briefly last week, where they don't want to begin repairs because they believe it will, you know, stop or or destroy their ability to have a future claim.
• 29:55
  Chantal Roberts: And so they sit there waiting for a quote final estimate.
• 30:01
  Chantal Roberts: And this is where you as an adjuster need to explain there, it's not like there's no such thing as a final estimate, um, but the final estimate is really going to be when the claim is closed and the property is fixed.
• 30:12
  Chantal Roberts: And so we can't know that until you get the property done.
• 30:15
  Chantal Roberts: You know, it's kind of like a chicken and an egg thing.
• 30:18
  Chantal Roberts: And so you just you really need to hold the insured's hand.
• 30:23
  Chantal Roberts: And again, one of the best ways I have found to do this is to have your field adjuster out there with the insured's contractor at the same time walk in the property uh to discuss the scope of the damages and try to come up with an agreed price.
• 30:45
  William Auten: Yep.
• 30:46
  William Auten: And um, I've been in situations where the insured did not want to settle based on the known damage because there was hidden damage that they were concerned about.
• 30:56
  William Auten: Yes.
• 30:56
  William Auten: And that is easily solved by just making a payment for the undisputed amount of damages.
• 31:03
  William Auten: So everybody agrees on what what actually is damaged, and yeah, there might be some more damage that we won't know about until things get started, but we still have an estimate, we still have depreciation, you can still sign a proof of loss, which is not a release of any kind, which we talked about last week, and um life can move forward.
• 31:23
  Chantal Roberts: So and here's what we need to think about in this particular instance, as you said very stalli.
• 31:31
  Chantal Roberts: Um you pay what you know you owe when you know you owe it.
• 31:35
  Chantal Roberts: Okay, if you don't, guys, again, we're breaching our duties.
• 31:39
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, as an insurer, this is when Chantel gets involved, and again, Chantel is lazy, she doesn't want to do that.
• 31:46
  Chantal Roberts: Okay.
• 31:47
  Chantal Roberts: So what we would then need to do, I and I look, I get it.
• 31:52
  Chantal Roberts: Bill gets it, we all get it.
• 31:53
  Chantal Roberts: The insured is scared, they we deal with this every day.
• 31:57
  Chantal Roberts: They don't, so they don't know that they don't know if there is hidden damage.
• 32:03
  Chantal Roberts: You need to tell them what to do.
• 32:05
  Chantal Roberts: Hey, if there's hidden damage, stop the you know, repair, call me, I'll send Bill out again.
• 32:11
  Chantal Roberts: Put it down in writing because they don't trust you.
• 32:14
  Chantal Roberts: And if you have it in, if they have it in writing, then they can go, yeah, see, here you said so.
• 32:19
  Chantal Roberts: And then also you need to think about possibly sending out a reservation of rights letter.
• 32:25
  Chantal Roberts: Most insurers don't like doing that, but you need to seriously consider it because if the insured is not repairing their property or protecting it from from further loss, you, as the carrier or as the adjuster representing the carrier, uh, could be waiving that defense.
• 32:46
  Chantal Roberts: So very important stuff.
• 32:48
  William Auten: And uh, for property owners, when you get a check from an insurance company and you don't agree with the amount, um that doesn't mean that cashing the check is necessarily you saying, Well, I guess that's um, you know, I guess the insurance company wins here and I don't get them.
• 33:07
  William Auten: That's not the case at all.
• 33:08
  William Auten: Cash the check, get the repair started.
• 33:10
  William Auten: You can still, you know, if there's um items that the adjuster still needs to see for by all means make sure those don't get repaired yet or whatever, so that they're available to view so that you can make that supplemental claim.
• 33:24
  William Auten: But supplements are a thing, and um they happen almo almost every claim.
• 33:31
  William Auten: Not every not every claim, but a lot of them.
• 33:33
  Chantal Roberts: Yes.
• 33:34
  Chantal Roberts: Um, so now we we have contractors who are on the property repairing the property, and there is some risk there.
• 33:46
  Chantal Roberts: Um, there's some liability exposures there.
• 33:51
  Chantal Roberts: The the the one thing I always think about is uh maybe a apartment um complex having a roof claim and how the roofer has to basically kind of shut down that apartment comp that that apartment building, like maybe one out of 20, because they're throwing the roofs, the old roof off the three three three stories high or whatever, there's nails everywhere, blah, blah, blah.
• 34:20
  Chantal Roberts: And you could have injuries to the tenants, to visitors, to pedestrians, or whatever.
• 34:26
  Chantal Roberts: And so you could have third-party uh injuries.
• 34:29
  William Auten: Sure.
• 34:30
  William Auten: That's our next topic.
• 34:32
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:32
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah.
• 34:33
  Chantal Roberts: See how it's a good thing.
• 34:33
  William Auten: Contractor risk and liability exposure.
• 34:36
  Chantal Roberts: So we weaved it in right there.
• 34:38
  William Auten: So when you get uh when you get these contractors out to your property, whether it's a home or commercial site, um, before they step foot on your property, you're gonna want to make sure that you have a written contract and that you have their insurance information through a certificate.
• 34:56
  William Auten: And you'll want to verify that they've got general liability and workers' compensation coverage.
• 35:00
  William Auten: So um uh, and if you're a commercial property owner here in New York, you want to be additional insured on that um uh insurance certificate, and you want uh the contract to say that the contractor is going to defend and indemnify you.
• 35:18
  William Auten: Otherwise, you're subject to labor law 240 claims, which in New York is strict liability for anybody who falls from a height.
• 35:25
  William Auten: Or if a it's a falling worker, falling object statute.
• 35:29
  William Auten: Um so that can get um that can get complicated and uh can make your life miserable if you don't have the right coverage in place.
• 35:41
  Chantal Roberts: So what you're looking for, even as the adjuster and or the landlord, homeowner, whatever, is that certificate of insurance?
• 35:51
  Chantal Roberts: I I never does I have issues with the certificate of insurance because they are only good for that particular point in time.
• 36:00
  Chantal Roberts: So I mean, it's perfectly plausible that the contractor could cancel it like as soon as he leaves your your location.
• 36:09
  Chantal Roberts: Does it happen?
• 36:10
  Chantal Roberts: I mean, not really.
• 36:12
  Chantal Roberts: And there's very specific information that needs to go on the certificate of insurance, uh, which you know lists the policy, the dates, that sort of thing.
• 36:26
  Chantal Roberts: Um, sometimes they the insurer or the insured, meaning the contractor, would like all of the endorsements to be listed as well.
• 36:35
  Chantal Roberts: But whether that can be done or not, I think depends on the states and whatever.
• 36:41
  Chantal Roberts: Um however, what I would do is simply call that agent that is listed on that certificate of insurance and say, hey, did that do they still have good, you know, general liability coverage or workers' compensation coverage or whatever?
• 36:59
  Chantal Roberts: And the reason you, as the adjuster, needs to know this is because that contractor would also have contracts with all the subcontractors.
• 37:10
  Chantal Roberts: And, you know, we need to know, all right, we got to call him and put him on notice.
• 37:16
  Chantal Roberts: And then we, um, when we're talking to that adjuster over there, do you know who the other people are and all of this kind of stuff?
• 37:24
  Chantal Roberts: And it's it construction claims are fun, they are huge, especially when you get uh all of the subcontractors involved, and hopefully we don't have that issue.
• 37:36
  William Auten: The other thing to be concerned about is when a contractor does bad work, um we get a lot of claims for poor workmanship, and um that's excluded.
• 37:47
  William Auten: Your work product is not covered.
• 37:49
  William Auten: Um, even if you have products and completed operations coverage, which is designed to um to protect you from liability caused by your work product, um damage to your work product itself is not covered because that would be like a warranty policy against bad workmanship, and that's not what insurance is designed to do.
• 38:17
  William Auten: So, and unfortunately, those don't have any happy happy endings because you've got a claimant, a property owner who's got bad work that has to be corrected, and um and you've got a contractor that doesn't want to correct it.
• 38:37
  William Auten: So it's it's just bad a bad situation all the way around.
• 38:42
  Chantal Roberts: So this is again kind of what we were talking about going somewhat full circle, as if you are the insurance company for the landlord andor homeowner, and that happens to be covered, a covered claim, you would need to open a claim for that and do the and and then attempt to subrogate.
• 39:08
  Chantal Roberts: You don't foist your insured off on the contractor saying, Yeah, you just need to sue.
• 39:16
  Chantal Roberts: No, that's your job.
• 39:18
  Chantal Roberts: Uh so so some uh again, I think that this is just you know maybe a educational issue that some of our newer adjusters don't necessarily know.
• 39:30
  William Auten: Yeah, you got to take ownership of of a claim against the policy that you've issued to a policy holder.
• 39:35
  William Auten: And and if they make a claim, um handle it.
• 39:39
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah.
• 39:39
  William Auten: Pay it and then subrogate when you have an opportunity to do that.
• 39:44
  Chantal Roberts: Absolutely.
• 39:45
  Chantal Roberts: Absolutely.
• 39:46
  Chantal Roberts: Yep.
• 39:46
  Chantal Roberts: Um, because that's again what they're paying premiums for.
• 39:49
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah.
• 39:50
  Chantal Roberts: Yes, yes.
• 39:51
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah.
• 39:52
  Chantal Roberts: Um, what other kind of of liability exposure?
• 39:56
  Chantal Roberts: I one that I happen to be thinking about right now is Overland Park is going to be repaving our side streets and all the way down through the neighborhoods and and everything.
• 40:10
  Chantal Roberts: And I know how they're going to do it is like they would be paving one side of the street and all of us park on the other side of the street.
• 40:19
  Chantal Roberts: And then, yeah, a couple of days later, you know, we flip, we all park on the other side of the street, and they pave the the unpaved part of it.
• 40:29
  Chantal Roberts: And I just sit there and and think, because I've worked to these claims, uh, you're gonna have these tar claims and all of this sort of thing.
• 40:37
  Chantal Roberts: Uh and I started thinking about how adjusters may not know that there are body shops who can just take off that tar without having to do a whole paint job because we got a lot of claims uh from contractors doing this, like overspray claims or or what have you, um, where everybody wanted to get a new paint job on their car.
• 41:07
  Chantal Roberts: And that's not necessarily it.
• 41:09
  Chantal Roberts: And it's not necessarily this contractor risk liability exposure.
• 41:14
  Chantal Roberts: It's what I'm saying is the claimants don't necessarily get a brand new paint job just because you've uh your your insured has put some tar on their car.
• 41:27
  Chantal Roberts: There, there's ways to take that off.
• 41:30
  William Auten: There is.
• 41:31
  William Auten: Um, and I have you ever had an overspray pay uh claim?
• 41:35
  Chantal Roberts: I have, I I've worked quite a few of them.
• 41:38
  William Auten: Yeah, so bridge work is common because the wind blows and they're spraying the bridge, and a parking lot gets uh blasted with green paint.
• 41:48
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah.
• 41:49
  William Auten: Um, and those can be interesting.
• 41:51
  Chantal Roberts: There there is there are body shops that are paint shops that actually deal specifically with that.
• 41:58
  Chantal Roberts: And it's it's basically they take a Q-tip and they just like take off this little bitty part and they take off this little bitty part.
• 42:05
  Chantal Roberts: And we're talking maybe$1,500 versus a$7,000 paint job, right?
• 42:13
  Chantal Roberts: Uh and again, remember, because we're the third party in this particular instance, we only have to pay ACV and we would pay to repair or replace it.
• 42:26
  Chantal Roberts: And if we can repair it for$1,500, that's what we're going to do.
• 42:30
  Chantal Roberts: Might not be what the owner wants.
• 42:32
  Chantal Roberts: And if the owner wants a brand new paint job, then maybe the owner goes to their own insurance company who might pay for a whole new paint job.
• 42:41
  Chantal Roberts: But again, all we are paying for to the other insurance company is that$1,500 because that's all we owe.
• 42:49
  William Auten: I had one a few years ago, many years ago now, I guess.
• 42:52
  William Auten: Uh it was a it was a brand of car that had a lot of black matte plastic, matte finish kind of black plastic parts on it.
• 43:01
  William Auten: And they they could not get the paint off it without without altering the finish.
• 43:07
  William Auten: So we uh wound up paying for all those plastic parts to be replaced.
• 43:12
  William Auten: That unfortunately.
• 43:13
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah, that does happen, but it it it it is rare.
• 43:16
  Chantal Roberts: I was just thinking about that uh driving to the grocery store the other day, like, oh, this is this is a good topic that we might want to talk about.
• 43:25
  Chantal Roberts: Uh we have talked we we have spoken a little bit about the written contracts for construction works and certificates of insurance and uh verifying that.
• 43:36
  Chantal Roberts: And what kind of investigation challenges do you see in these kind of spring claims?
• 43:44
  Chantal Roberts: I can think of a few right off the top of my head.
• 43:46
  William Auten: Well, um, what I found is contractors, if uh if they do cause damage to something, they want to keep moving.
• 43:53
  William Auten: And a lot of times they just fix it and move on, and then they, you know, they'll make the so if you're a contractor and You cause damage to a building and you can fix it, uh uh w at least wait till you make a claim and and allow the adjuster to see it.
• 44:10
  William Auten: Um because if you just uh if you um fix it before anybody can see it, you kind of took away any evidence that there was damage.
• 44:21
  William Auten: So how are we supposed to verify the cost?
• 44:24
  Chantal Roberts: Yeah.
• 44:25
  Chantal Roberts: And that is also in violation of your duties as as an as an insured, which is to allow us to inspect the property.
• 44:35
  Chantal Roberts: If it absolutely one of those things that absolutely positively has to get corrected, such as, you know, we got to turn off water or something like that.
• 44:43
  Chantal Roberts: Take a picture, uh, which is uh something that that I did.
• 44:49
  Chantal Roberts: We talked very briefly about how I had a frozen pipe outside.
• 44:55
  Chantal Roberts: Uh it caused my sump pump pipes inside the house to come undone and I had water spraying everywhere.
• 45:02
  Chantal Roberts: Wasn't sure if it was immediately going to be covered.
• 45:06
  Chantal Roberts: But what I started doing was taking video, taking photographs, showing where the water was was uh damaged, showing us cleaning up the damage so that if I did turn in a claim a few days later to my insurance company, they would have that evidence.
• 45:30
  Chantal Roberts: Even though I've changed the scene.
• 45:32
  Chantal Roberts: I wasn't just gonna let it keep on spraying everywhere uh uh while I wait for an adjuster to come.
• 45:40
  William Auten: Most people today are pretty with cell phones, they you know, they're pretty quick to take photos and and video.
• 45:47
  William Auten: And um so we don't really run into that problem very often.
• 45:51
  William Auten: But um one thing that we still do continuously get from contractors is when they cause damage, they go ahead and fix the damage and then they put their hand out and they say, I want to be paid now for the repairs that I made to, which makes it tough because the general liability part of your policy isn't designed to pay your policy holder.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 46:13
  William Auten: And it makes it uh almost impossible to get a release from from the uh from the property owner.
• 46:22
  Chantal Roberts: Would that not be covered if the cause of loss would be something that the insured did?
• 46:30
  Chantal Roberts: Because you just said if the insured did bad work, uh then you know that that's not what something that the policy pays for.
• 46:39
  William Auten: And here's a here's an example.
• 46:41
  William Auten: Um roofer is roofing a house, and um they um they drop a bundle of shingles on the roof and it goes through the roofing uh and crashes down through the living room.
• 46:58
  William Auten: So uh they run down there and they fix it all up and they and they fix the roof.
• 47:04
  William Auten: And it took them, you know, X number of hours and materials to to make that repair.
• 47:09
  William Auten: Um, so that would be an example of um property damage caused by negligence.
• 47:17
  William Auten: Um now if they put the roof on and it was horrible and it looked bad and it leaked uh because it wasn't installed properly, that's not covered, that's work product.
• 47:29
  Chantal Roberts: So in this particular instance, the the first instance where they drop the shingles, they go through the attic, through the first floor, down to the second floor, or the second floor down to the first floor, and the roofer fixes all of that up.
• 47:46
  Chantal Roberts: How do you as the adjuster handle that?
• 47:51
  William Auten: It's tough.
• 47:52
  William Auten: Um we've issued checks to to the contractor before.
• 47:59
  William Auten: But what what you want to do is do a comparison estimate just to make sure it's fair.
• 48:05
  William Auten: Um you're not gonna be able to get a release.
• 48:08
  William Auten: I mean, you can ask for a release from the property owner.
• 48:12
  William Auten: They may or may not um you know do anything about it.
• 48:17
  William Auten: But ultimately, the job of the the job of the liability section of the policy is to defend and indemnify the policyholders.
• 48:25
  William Auten: So you're actually indemnifying them.
• 48:29
  William Auten: So that's my take on that.
• 48:31
  Chantal Roberts: Okay.
• 48:32
  Chantal Roberts: Okay.
• 48:33
  Chantal Roberts: I would also I I guess be asking for receipts, uh invoices showing that they actually did the work and and that sort of thing.
• 48:47
  William Auten: Um most times when I've gotten claims like that, they're not big, you know, and and the contractor feels terrible and and they're like, look, if you just reimburse me for materials, that's all I need, you know.
• 49:01
  William Auten: So these are not big disputes, but um, you know, sometimes it can be.
• 49:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 49:07
  William Auten: The potential's there.
• 49:09
  Chantal Roberts: It it always, always.
• 49:10
  Chantal Roberts: So, what kind of practical advice do you have for our policyholders and our adjusters who are handling the this uh building season kind of claim?
• 49:24
  William Auten: I would say um make sure you're going to be interviewing reputable contractors.
• 49:30
  William Auten: And I wouldn't go with the first bid or your first interview.
• 49:34
  William Auten: I would um get at least three is the general rule and um compare them apples to apples.
• 49:42
  William Auten: Your spidey senses should be telling you if someone's a creep or not.
• 49:46
  William Auten: Um Better Business Bureau is a good resource.
• 49:50
  William Auten: Uh, friends and family, whoever you know can recommend somebody that has actually done work on their property, uh, that'd be a good place to start.
• 50:00
  William Auten: Um, another good place to start is to um talk to folks who have already done work at your property who you liked and say, hey, I know you're a plumber, but now I need this roof repair done.
• 50:13
  William Auten: Do you have any recommendations for that?
• 50:15
  Chantal Roberts: Those guys talk to one another.
• 50:17
  Chantal Roberts: Those guys talk to one another.
• 50:18
  Chantal Roberts: And uh, you know, I love my plumber, and uh he's from Arkansas.
• 50:23
  Chantal Roberts: So we we joke about how we're really brother, sister, aunt and uncle, grandma and grandpa together.
• 50:29
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, and because you know, there's there's no branches in our family tree.
• 50:33
  Chantal Roberts: And and he introduced me to like now my favorite electrician who I think I told you one time I almost burned down the house because I I had pulled some electricity from a higher voltage.
• 50:48
  Chantal Roberts: I didn't know.
• 50:49
  Chantal Roberts: And uh he was very kind and didn't didn't mock me and go, oh my gosh, this this homeowner here, he explained to me what the different colors were and and all of this where I'm like, you know, in Arkansas, we don't do that.
• 51:03
  Chantal Roberts: We don't do that at all.
• 51:05
  Chantal Roberts: And uh he let me watch him just like I was his little apprentice and and ask him all sorts of questions.
• 51:13
  Chantal Roberts: So what I'm saying is in that story, again, yeah, ask ask your favorite plumber, ask your favorite electrician, ask your vet or whomever, but because those those people talk to one another.
• 51:28
  Chantal Roberts: Um yeah, and I would also uh I had a point, but I don't know what it is.
• 51:37
  Chantal Roberts: Okay, oh setting expectations more for the for the adjusters talking with the insurerts um and and around the holdback and the timelines and and things of that nature, uh overestimate, you know, be like Scotty uh with the Enterprise.
• 51:56
  Chantal Roberts: Uh you know, I need it done in an hour, Scotty, and you're like, oh, I can't do it in until a week and a half, Captain, and you know, you can do it in 30 minutes kind of deal, but you're not gonna tell the captain that.
• 52:07
  Chantal Roberts: Uh, same thing with talking to your insured.
• 52:11
  Chantal Roberts: I'm not saying lie to them.
• 52:12
  Chantal Roberts: That's not what I'm saying.
• 52:13
  Chantal Roberts: I'm saying, you know, uh what I would do is I'm going to assign this to uh a field adjuster.
• 52:21
  Chantal Roberts: They have 24 to 48 hours to contact you, then they have a week to take a look at the property.
• 52:28
  Chantal Roberts: I would give them, I don't know, three or four days, business days to write up a report and get that back to me.
• 52:34
  Chantal Roberts: So what are we looking at?
• 52:36
  Chantal Roberts: Probably two weeks before you hear from me or anything, you know, just and am I gonna get it back before then?
• 52:43
  Chantal Roberts: Probably, because I'm definitely following up within seven business days.
• 52:47
  Chantal Roberts: But you see what I'm saying is that we're we're setting that expectation.
• 52:51
  Chantal Roberts: And with the holdback, we're also gonna set that expectation.
• 52:54
  Chantal Roberts: Like your policy states that you we're going to take depreciation off of XYZ and explain what that is.
• 53:01
  Chantal Roberts: And um yeah, I want your contractor out there with my guy so that we can all get this done and and agreed on.
• 53:10
  William Auten: And when uh one thing you'll run into as an adjuster is that when you start talking about the way the policy works and uh policy language and the the overall mechanics of the claim, the insured's eyes are gonna glaze over and they're gonna hear only about 25% of what you say.
• 53:32
  William Auten: So it's worth repeating, it's worth um issuing a piece of paper, a letter of some sort to them explaining those things as well, because not everybody is gonna absorb, they're not gonna pick up what you're putting down necessarily.
• 53:46
  William Auten: So um you can be as clear as can be about your communication, and you can speak in perfect English and you can um you can verbalize everything perfectly, but it's a complex thing sometimes, and and people just don't always get it.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 54:03
  William Auten: And they have to repeat it.
• 54:05
  William Auten: Repeat it and um uh guaranteed they'll ask questions that you've answered two or three times already, you know.
• 54:13
  William Auten: But uh that's kind of part of the job.
• 54:15
  William Auten: That's why AI isn't going to partake our jobs, you know.
• 54:18
  William Auten: It's because we need a human being speaking to another human being.
• 54:23
  Chantal Roberts: Right, right.
• 54:24
  Chantal Roberts: So uh also make sure you do your good documentation on there, and that's not only your letters, but in your claim notes, uh uh saying that you spoke with who you spoke with, what y'all talked about, these sorts of things.
• 54:39
  Chantal Roberts: And yeah, use your words.
• 54:41
  Chantal Roberts: I and I and I know that a lot of people don't want to answer the phones or whatever.
• 54:46
  Chantal Roberts: Again, I'm seeing a lot of times where people where adjusters will text the insured, hey, I'm gonna call you between nine and ten.
• 54:54
  Chantal Roberts: Please pick up the phone or whatever.
• 54:56
  Chantal Roberts: It's a really good thing to do to have the insured pick up the phone so you're not playing phone tag or trading emails, because there's a lot of times that I, as an expert witness, am reading an email.
• 55:10
  Chantal Roberts: And by the seventh one, I'm sitting there screaming, pick up the phone to to everybody who obviously can't hear me by that point.
• 55:20
  William Auten: So so well, uh the building season.
• 55:24
  William Auten: It's it's here, whether we like it or not.
• 55:27
  William Auten: I think most people are glad it's here so that we can get some work done.
• 55:31
  William Auten: Um, uh, we're having our house painted this year.
• 55:34
  Chantal Roberts: Woo! Yeah, yeah, it's what I need to do too.
• 55:37
  Chantal Roberts: I need to get that done.
• 55:38
  Chantal Roberts: I got some wood rod that I need to get taken care of.
• 55:40
  Chantal Roberts: So I will be having contractors um here.
• 55:44
  Chantal Roberts: Our next episode is going to be on May 7th, which will be that same day that uh Fred Fisher and I have that podcast or webinar.
• 55:54
  Chantal Roberts: So I mean, you could have a whole day of listening to me, which I know everybody would be like, oh, that'd be fabulous.
• 56:02
  William Auten: Uh except for that'll be a live event, correct?
• 56:04
  Chantal Roberts: Uh yes, yes, it is being recorded.
• 56:06
  Chantal Roberts: So even if you sign up for it, you can listen to it later.
• 56:10
  Chantal Roberts: Uh and it's free.
• 56:11
  Chantal Roberts: So uh, but next in two weeks, we're gonna be talking about summer liability.
• 56:17
  Chantal Roberts: Ooh, yummy.
• 56:18
  Chantal Roberts: Um, pools, lawnmowers, and backyard risks, which is gonna be right in time for our summer uh memorial day, July 4th, all of that kind of fun jazz.
• 56:32
  William Auten: Oh, yes, yeah, great fun.
• 56:34
  William Auten: Absolutely forward to summer.
• 56:36
  Chantal Roberts: Me too.
• 56:37
  Chantal Roberts: Me too.
• 56:38
  Chantal Roberts: So we will see you in two weeks.
• 56:40
  William Auten: Yes, ma'am.
• 56:41
  Chantal Roberts: Bye.
• 56:42
  William Auten: Take care.
• 56:43
  Chantal Roberts: Bye.
• 56:44
  William Auten: Thanks for joining us on the Art of Adjusting Podcast, where we talk about life as an insurance adjuster.
• 56:49
  William Auten: Hit that subscribe button real quick and tell all of your adjuster friends to check this out as well.
• 56:54
  William Auten: For independent adjusting services, go to www.autin.claims.
• 56:58
  William Auten: And for anyone interested in working as an independent liability adjuster, go to the contact us tab to join our roster.
• 57:07
  Chantal Roberts: So this wraps up another Art of Adjusting podcast.
• 57:10
  Chantal Roberts: If you enjoyed this podcast or this episode, please give us five stars and a review.
• 57:16
  Chantal Roberts: It does help the algorithm pick us up.
• 57:19
  Chantal Roberts: In the meantime, you can contact me at theartofadjusting.com for consulting and training purposes.