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Inside the Crisis Facing America’s Sheriffs: Anthony Amerson Breaks It Down · Heroes Behind the Badge

0:10
Paul Boomer: On today's episode of Heroes Behind the Badge, we're joined by
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Anthony Amerson, executive Director of the National Black Sheriff's Association,
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and son of a groundbreaking sheriff whose legacy still shapes law enforcement today.
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His story is powerful, timely, and deeply human.
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Let's get right into it.
0:30
Dennis Collins: Wow.
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I, and preparing, and preparing for this, this interview.
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I said I, I don't know where we start.
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So I'd like to start right now with what you are doing today as the
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executive director of the National Black Sheriff's Association.
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A fairly new organization, but I know you have a history with our founder,
0:53
our CEO, our president, Craig Floyd, and that you share a lot of common
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goals with citizens behind the badge.
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So I thought we'd start with, and I, wanna tell our viewers, our listeners, stay
1:07
tuned for this entire podcast, by the way.
1:10
Stay tuned because Anthony is gonna tell a very inspirational,
1:16
moving, touching story.
1:18
Okay.
1:20
I've heard parts of it and it is a great story that you need to hear.
1:25
So by all means stay tuned for the whole podcast.
1:28
But for starters, Anthony, again, a warm welcome to the
1:32
Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.
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Tell us about the National Black Sheriff's Association.
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Anthony Amerson: Thank you so much, Dennis, for the very nice introduction
1:44
and allowing me to speak about the National Black Sheriff's Association.
1:49
The concept for the National Black Sheriff's Association
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was born back in 2022.
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My father was the first black sheriff elected in the South since reconstruction.
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During this ceremony, they basically dedicated a specific portion
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of Alabama Highway in his name.
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And during this ceremony, there were sheriffs that came from all
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over the state to be a part of this.
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And they gave me their own personal testimonies of how my father's
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election opened the door for them to go into law enforcement.
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And I was so inspired by that as an adult.
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Being able to hear these aspiring testimonies from folks.
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It really moved me because I said that, we need to encourage more people to go into
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public safety and become public servants.
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It inspired me to a point where I said, I need to be able to leverage
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my professional experience filling a need for advocating for sheriffs more.
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So as a part of that, I say, let me map out.
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Figure out where the sheriffs are demographically and geographically
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and figure out what their needs are.
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So I commissioned the Trailblazers for Justice Research Project, which was a two
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year effort to map out all of the African American sheriffs passed and present.
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And this journey was Wow, amazing.
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It took me to Fort Bend County, Texas.
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The grave site of Walter Moses Burton first black sheriff elected in the
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nation in 1869, and then to work my way back from 1869 to present.
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I was just touched by so many inspiring stories of individuals who stepped
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into fill a role in the rule of law as sheriffs across the nation.
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As I started coming to present day, sheriffs, elected from 2000 on up.
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I just started conducting a listening tour to find out what were their
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challenges, what did they need help on.
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And I'll tell you the sheriffs are having a difficult time dealing with
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reduced budgets, and higher crime, and low staffing, and I started taking
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all of this in and I'm asking myself what type of, organization or platform
4:07
was available for the sheriffs.
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Now we do have the National sheriffs Association, which
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has been around since 1881.
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We're very familiar with them and what they've been doing.
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We share a lot of commonality in issues that are affecting sheriffs, but our
4:22
specific take on it was we needed to have a way to provide a voice for African
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American sheriffs since there are 3061 sheriff officers across the nation.
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Yet, there's only about 175 African American sheriffs holding the office.
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And surprising enough, when you look at the demographics, a lot of our
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sheriffs are serving in major urban cities across the nation, Dallas,
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Texas, Charlotte, North Carolina, Atlanta, Georgia, or Philadelphia,
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Pennsylvania, and other places.
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Dennis Collins: Wonder what were, Anthony, it's interesting that you did
4:58
this study, I find that fascinating.
5:00
What were the top, say, two or three issues?
5:04
You alluded to it, but what are the top two or three issues that
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your organization is, is there for?
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Is there to help out?
5:14
What are the top two or three issues?
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Anthony Amerson: Top two issues would be the professionalization of the office.
5:22
Everyone knows if sheriffs are elected officials, right?
5:24
There is no playbook on how to be a sheriff, right?
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Normally people that are, ascending the ranks from deputies to run for sheriffs,
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and then in some cases we have, other law enforcement officials that decide
5:36
to take up being sheriffs as well.
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But there is no playbook on how to be a sheriff.
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So the first thing we wanted to focus on, how can we advance excellence?
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And then also we wanna attract the youth.
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We wanna attract more young people to come into law enforcement.
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So our model is not only based on the sheriffs, but the teams
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that support the sheriffs.
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Craig Floyd: Yeah.
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let me jump in here because you touched on something just a moment ago that
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really is, close to the heart here.
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That is, the recruitment of, young people, to the law enforcement profession.
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this has taken a big hit.
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you and I had a discussion not too long ago.
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You reached out to me.
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We've known each other for a long time, but we share one very
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important common ground, and that is.
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We've gotta do more to recruit young people to come into this profession.
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The types of people that would've probably joined law enforcement
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years ago, but because of the defund and defame, the police
6:35
movement, law enforcement profession as a whole has taken a huge hit.
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we've lost some 40,000 law enforcement officers in this country
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due to either retention issues or recruitment, challenges and.
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I'm so glad to hear that's one of your top priorities because, as citizens
6:56
behind the badge, your organization and many others are working so hard right
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now to try to get people to think of law enforcement as a sacred ground, as a
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place that, is honorable, and that you can truly make a difference in this society.
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I'm interested to know, when you think of the defund, the police movement.
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how much of a hit did that hurt?
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not only law enforcement as a whole, but specifically, in, the
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black sheriffs of this country.
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You've been talking to them.
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What are they telling you about how much of an impact the defund movement has
7:33
had on law enforcement in their areas?
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Anthony Amerson: That's a great point, Craig.
7:38
And it's having a significant impact because what we're finding is that.
7:41
At the municipal level below the county, that oftentimes those, law
7:47
enforcement officers, police chiefs are, their agencies are subject to
7:53
budget funding, which a lot of these municipal towns, small towns across
7:57
the nation aren't able to support.
8:00
And as a result, they are forced to make financial decisions
8:04
about how public safety is done.
8:06
In often that encounters.
8:08
Defunding police and replacing them with alternates or for the sheriffs
8:13
to absorb some of the responsibilities that are being left behind after
8:17
these municipal police stations and what have you are defunded.
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So it's creating a strain and it's not only creating a strain in the rural areas,
8:27
it's creating a strain in urban areas too.
8:31
Everyone has been watching the, playbook on how recruitment has
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been going across the country.
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And in the words of retired sheriff Jackie Barrett Washington.
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She was a first black sheriff, female sheriff, elected in the
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nation in Fulton County, Georgia.
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She says there are not enough morally and ethically sound people that
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want to go into law enforcement.
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We have to really look at ourselves, self-reflective and find out why is it
9:00
that we aren't able to attract better quality people to the profession?
9:05
One issue is funding and salary.
9:08
We see now with ICE and US Park Services offering signing bonuses
9:14
from $50,000 to $70,000 that they are taking the best of the best that
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want to go into the career field.
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And a large part of that is driven by the economics.
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People have to take care of their families.
9:27
They have responsibilities, and the salaries at the municipal, county,
9:32
state level are just not as attractive.
9:35
And we've watched the economy change and we've watched the impact, and
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it's not going to get any better.
9:41
Craig Floyd: Yeah.
9:42
what do you think about, standards for law enforcement, as part
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of this recruitment effort?
9:48
What we've seen in some areas anyway, is a reduction in standards, a lowering
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of standards, physical fitness standards all of a sudden, are gone by the wayside.
9:59
in terms of, the.
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Backgrounds of, applicants, did you do drugs?
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it used to be, a non-starter.
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and if you had, and, now we've loosened those, criteria, we could just go
10:15
on and on, but, are you seeing, the standards, of law enforcement, for
10:21
purposes of better recruitment being lowered in, with the black sheriffs that
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you're talking to around the country?
10:28
Anthony Amerson: Yes, everyone has had to adopt that strategy because
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there are just not enough people that are interested in applying.
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And then after they apply, they recruit and they complete
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their initial assessments.
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How do you retain these folks?
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To become a law enforcement official requires you to take on
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a different type of lifestyle.
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one that requires you to have discipline.
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One that requires you to have some type of a moral responsiveness
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about community and personal values.
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And what we're finding is that there's just not enough
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people that have those type of characteristics for law enforcement.
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So as a result, they have had to lower standards.
11:09
Some of the things that you've mentioned are some of the areas where they have had
11:13
the lower standards, but the problem is that just as easy as you can recruit them.
11:18
These same folks normally get washed out through, disciplinary actions and
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other infractions because of those same characteristic traits that we
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are bypassing just to get the numbers.
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There's just not enough folks that want to go into it that fit that criteria,
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and we're going to see more examples of, law enforcement officers having
11:40
bad conduct misconduct, alcohol abuse.
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It's a difficult job being in law enforcement, not only on the
11:47
individual, but on their family.
11:50
Bill Erfurth: So I just wanna chime in here because this is an
11:52
interesting topic and I can actually speak from personal experience.
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So in 1980, I was hired by the Metro Dade Police Department in Miami, Florida.
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And at that time they were recruiting 2,500 new cops.
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The City of Miami Police Department was trying to hire
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approximately another thousand cops.
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So precisely what we're just discussing about lax and lowering of standards.
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A lot of the standards were lowered then because crime was off the hook down here.
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And the problem that I see now is, we always talk about in life and in the world
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how, you have to pay attention to history and you have to learn from history.
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And we've come back around here.
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We've, allowed misdemeanors and we've allowed, some felony charges.
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If you have a DUI passed, if you have drugs like Craig commented, those aren't.
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Eliminating factors anymore to getting hired and, it's a really, tough time.
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And I would further say, because back when, I first got hired, it was
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an, it was honorable to be a cop.
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And I think it's not just about salary and money and bonuses right
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now, it's about respect and it's about who's got your back and who's
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supporting you and the politicians not.
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Badgering and demonizing the police because that's the other
13:18
thing we talk about to fund.
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But now it's really demonizing.
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I wouldn't go back to law enforcement if they paid me a million dollars
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a year to do it right now.
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and I sit around with a lot of my friends and they're like, I don't want
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my kids going into law enforcement.
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And it's not about the money because it was never about
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the money in law enforcement.
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It was about doing the job.
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It was about serving your country and your community.
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It was the honorable thing to do.
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Right now it's about respect and, not demonizing the police and having effective
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law enforcement leaders, whether that be a sheriff or a police chief that's got the
13:56
balls to stand up and do the right thing and politicians doing the right thing.
14:01
Anthony Amerson: And we're seeing a lot of politicalization that the
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sheriffs are having to deal with.
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From their government entities that support them in funding.
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They're always cutting the sheriff's budget.
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And of course, jails are a sore thumb for any share.
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Most of them have been outsourced to Department of Corrections in
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different cities to run and operate.
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however, it's expensive to maintain an infrastructure for jails.
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One of our sheriffs down in New Orleans, if you saw the
14:29
national news, had a jail break.
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Where some inmates escaped and were at large for a long period of time.
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But when they started diving down deeper into the maintenance issues at the jail
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facility, there were a lot of, maintenance issues that had not been addressed in
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part because of funding, disagreements with some of the local, governing bodies.
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And it's expensive to run jails.
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Why do you think the federal prison has privatized so many of them?
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It's because the infrastructures themselves deteriorate so fast
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that you have to rebuild it.
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These are the same thing that my father had to deal with in the 1960s.
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His jails were subject to lawsuits and complaints by prisons because
15:13
the county refused to actually fund the maintenance repairs or to.
15:18
Create a structure rebuild and create a structure that could be advanced enough
15:23
to hold inmates as well as to be able to operate with some type of efficiency.
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And it's just one of those issues that a lot of politicians are using to
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take funds away from the sheriff that they previously had allocated to them.
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And this is a, method of defunding members by reducing their funding.
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Telling them to do more with less.
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And this is only going to set up eventually, what we know is going to be
15:53
the onset of AI technology taking over a law enforcement role in our society.
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Bill Erfurth: We're gonna talk about that in a bit, but, here we are.
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We've talked about you being the executive director of the National
16:06
Black Sheriff's Association.
16:07
It's a newly formed organization.
16:10
We've, hit on your father, that was a sheriff.
16:13
We're gonna talk more about that, but we haven't talked about you.
16:16
So who are you and what's your background, Anthony, and what got
16:22
you here to where you're at today?
16:26
Anthony Amerson: I am an author, I'm a historian.
16:30
I'm a retired foreign service officer from the United States
16:33
Agency for International Development.
16:36
I am also an advocate for sheriffs and public safety.
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I got into this because during my experience while working in the government
16:45
as a foreign service officer, I had the opportunity to live abroad for more than
16:50
10 years, and I worked in these developing countries where the United States was
16:54
trying to actually rebuild countries and provide better services to its citizens.
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I had an assignment in Afghanistan.
17:02
Two assignments in Pakistan, in Ethiopia, and in Haiti after the earthquake.
17:08
And what I saw in all of these different country scenarios was
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basically there was a lot of conflict.
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People that were not happy with government because the government
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wasn't able to provide services and.
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Public safety is a service that the government has to provide, and
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when it's absent, it creates chaos.
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It creates people breaking laws.
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It creates the absence of rules and regulations for how the society operates.
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So I saw that and I saw the effort of some of the great development
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professionals that the government has and to solving some of these problems.
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What we found out in Afghanistan was.
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It was much more cheaper to build schools and hospitals and provide
17:49
services to people to prevent them from becoming radicalized into
17:53
terrorist organizations than it was to put military troops on the ground.
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We know that after the Afghanistan and the Iraq conflict, United States
18:02
government spent roughly $17 trillion on both of those type of engagements,
18:08
whereas a development perspective would've saved millions and millions of dollars
18:13
and promoted more long-term stability.
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And taking that example and applying it to the society that
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we're in the United States.
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And I will suggest everyone, if you have opportunity to go outside the United
18:25
States and see how other people live, you'd be shocked in a lot of cases.
18:30
But in particular, when we're watching, Richard Wolf, the US economist
18:38
has been talking about, we are on a collision course for economic.
18:43
We're seeing increases in repossessions, evictions, and job
18:48
loss all across the nation, which is going to create food insecurity.
18:53
Same type of issues that I saw in these developing countries.
18:56
What is the law enforcement community, or are they prepared to deal with this?
19:03
We have never seen it before.
19:05
We've never, we saw a little bit of it in COVID when there were grocery stores that
19:10
were bombarded with people buying toilet paper and other, food, items they needed.
19:16
But what is it gonna look like with the ending of SNAP benefits and
19:20
with people's cars being evicted and no jobs and there's no replacement
19:24
plan for people to get reemployed?
19:27
What are we going to do?
19:28
What is the state of public safety gonna look like?
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And I would tell you that.
19:33
It's gonna put more strain on existing resources than we've ever seen before.
19:40
Craig Floyd: Craig jump in there.
19:41
We're not prepared for it.
19:42
And Anthony, we touched base on, those issues, in our recent discussion.
19:49
And from that discussion, we talked about something that Kathy Lanier did, when she
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was Chief of Police in Washington, dc.
19:58
I admire the hell outta Kathy.
20:00
I think she had a lot of great, innovative ideas, that were
20:03
implemented and that worked.
20:05
And one of her philosophies was that, the police car should be a billboard,
20:12
to people in that community that if you need help, of any type, not just prime
20:17
related, not public safety related, but any help is needed, where do you turn?
20:23
Most people in, that dire need, don't know where to go,
20:28
in the government bureaucracy.
20:30
it's so confusing to all of us.
20:33
and yet that police car is that one symbol, that one visible symbol of
20:39
government, and you should be able to go to that police officer in that patrol
20:43
vehicle, tell them you have a problem.
20:46
Tell them you need help in some way.
20:49
They may not be able to provide that help to themselves, but they can help you get
20:54
the assistance you need and guide you, through that, very confusing bureaucracy.
21:00
I loved her philosophy and I know you, you and I discussed it.
21:03
You, seem to think that had a lot of legs as well.
21:07
And I think it, it speaks to your point that, over time we may find ourselves in,
21:12
dire straits, especially in rural America, where a lot of these black sheriffs serve.
21:18
And, I think we need to do something to help those people that are in need
21:24
now, but maybe in more need later on.
21:27
And I'd like to hear your thoughts on that concept.
21:31
Anthony Amerson: Absolutely you are right.
21:33
law enforcement and, the identity of law enforcement as a safe
21:37
space for citizens is a really, a truly benefit of being in uniform.
21:44
It's you have so much access to people in need.
21:47
Always tell folks that when you talk about law enforcement officers, they
21:52
see people at every spectrum of life from almost dying to people celebrate.
21:58
You see every level of.
22:00
Issues that people go through in life and food insecurity
22:04
will create a lot of chaos.
22:06
It'll, what we have done at the National Black sheriffs Association
22:10
is develop a program, where we're looking to attract more partners,
22:15
more non-traditional partners.
22:17
When we say.
22:18
We have a lot of law enforcement folks, but what are the other
22:20
partners that have a role in building resilience in communities?
22:25
Because essentially that's what we want to do.
22:27
We wanna build more resilience.
22:29
We want people to stay at home.
22:31
When people stay at home, they're less likely to do crime.
22:34
They have food, water, a roof over their head.
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They're more inclined to stay in the house.
22:39
And that's what we wanna really wanna promote.
22:42
We have, developed a decade of change program.
22:45
Which is going to provide, mobile health and dental services as an outreach effort
22:50
for the National Black sheriffs where we'll actually go into communities, set
22:54
up these free services, provide full assistance as well as social service
23:00
partners to help folks that are in need.
23:03
We see a lot of churches doing this right now.
23:05
Churches are valuable partners.
23:07
We see that there are more partners out there, some of the corporate partners
23:11
that have a social responsibility to help us do this because.
23:14
Government services as we know previously are going away.
23:18
So now it's time for our non-traditional and our corporate partners to join
23:23
up with law enforcement to help us build more community resilience by
23:28
providing services directly to them.
23:31
Bill Erfurth: Anthony, I wanna jump back in here.
23:33
We have our personal on staff, AI King.
23:40
Dennis Collins and Dennis wants to ask you about your thoughts
23:45
about AI in law enforcement.
23:47
Dennis Collins: thank you William.
23:48
That's very nice.
23:50
and I wanna take a quick pause here before I ask Anthony this question.
23:53
We're listening today to Anthony Amerson.
23:55
Anthony is the Executive Director of the National Black Sheriff's Association,
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24:38
Anthony, you pique my interest.
24:42
And I am a huge, AI person.
24:45
And I'm curious as to your thoughts about how you see AI fitting into
24:52
law enforcement and you painted the picture of, is law enforcement
24:56
ready for what's about to come?
24:59
And I think we're all sitting here saying, not so sure.
25:04
Not so sure.
25:06
Do you think AI and how do you see AI fitting into the
25:09
future of law enforcement?
25:12
Anthony Amerson: Wow, that's a great question.
25:15
I spent a lot of time overseas in Asia, and if you ever go to any
25:19
of the countries in Asia, more automation and robotics than you will
25:23
see anywhere in the United States.
25:25
Not only from fast food restaurants, but Services.
25:30
I think I was in a business class lounge in one of the airports and they had
25:33
a valet come around, a robot that was offering drinks and taking up trades.
25:38
And there it's just been expanding so rapidly in Asia, we're so far
25:42
behind, but AI is going to take a significant role in law enforcement
25:47
and especially in rural America.
25:50
Right now, Miami-Dade County Sheriff's Office has been rolling
25:54
out a driverless patrol vehicle.
25:58
That will perform patrol duties in the Miami area, be responsive
26:04
and things of that sort.
26:05
So we're already seeing it roll out.
26:09
What does this mean for local law enforcement offices?
26:13
if you don't have the recruitment numbers, then you're gonna have to come up with
26:16
some type of replacement of services.
26:18
You're gonna see more drones used to cover more coverage, provide more surveillance.
26:25
You're going to see.
26:27
Subscription services for Ring cameras becoming more privatized.
26:35
You live in an area that's, doesn't have a lot of police support and they
26:39
don't have the resources, you'll be able to get a subscription off of a
26:43
Ring camera device that will be able to monitor your, and connect with law
26:48
enforcement if you have a problem.
26:53
The rollout of more cameras.
26:54
There's so much technology in a smart-camera area, and cameras have
26:59
been shown to be a significant deterrent for crime all across the world.
27:04
In fact, in some countries that don't even allow police officers to carry firearms
27:08
or wear firearms, that legal cameras are the leading, asset that are helping them
27:14
to deter crime and also to catch crime.
27:17
You go in places of Thailand, they have a camera network system set up
27:22
to, you can create an offense in one area and cameras will track your,
27:28
your path all the way to your home.
27:31
And officers can go right there and arrest you or detain you.
27:34
What happens.
27:35
So hackers are gonna play a significant role in the technology is growing.
27:39
And last but not least, we're gonna see more chatbot services.
27:45
Where you will be able to go into, for example, your Sheriff's office website
27:50
and they'll have a chatbot what will essentially be like a 9 1 1 operator.
27:55
We see these chatbots popping up on our websites where they'll give
27:59
like customer service engagement or customer service responses.
28:03
You're gonna see the same thing off of the 9 1 1 component where
28:07
you would type in and say, Hey, I'm sick, I need an ambulance.
28:10
And then the chatbot will go through prompts that will find out what type
28:14
of services you need and then connect you to those services who will be
28:18
dispatched to come provide you assistance.
28:20
So I seen that the cameras.
28:23
the, driverless vehicles are all going to be how we roll
28:29
out AI into law enforcement.
28:31
Dennis Collins: I, Anthony, I love your vision.
28:33
Craig Floyd: Lemme jump in.
28:35
related to one of the comments Anthony just made changing, subjects
28:40
for a moment, let mental health.
28:42
Is, one of the pillars of the National Black Sheriff's Association.
28:46
I know it's also a pillar of citizens behind the badge.
28:50
The, mental, health wellness of our officers.
28:54
So important.
28:55
police suicide has become rampant in this country, for a variety of
29:00
reasons, especially the stress of the job, the number of traumatic events
29:04
that an officer has to deal with.
29:07
tell us a little bit about, what you're doing in that area.
29:11
Anthony Amerson: we have, attracted mental health professionals that
29:15
want to come and help us be a part of our mission to advance leadership.
29:22
And a part of advancing leadership is talking about real mental health
29:25
issues and the impact mental health has on officers doing their jobs.
29:30
We talked a lot.
29:31
We talked previously about the screening and the need to recruit more people, but.
29:36
There's a lot of stress and trauma that goes with go being in law enforcement
29:40
and as a part of the leaders, we have to incorporate specialist technicians
29:47
therapy, have access to resources for our law enforcement staff so that they can
29:55
maintain the mental health and wellness they need in order to do their jobs.
30:00
And we are also promoting more physical fitness, which tends to
30:03
help with, the mental disposition of folks as well as wellness lifestyles.
30:09
It's, you cannot go into law enforcement and not maintain a
30:13
healthy body, a healthy mind.
30:16
It requires a, different lifestyle, which is one of the reasons why we can
30:21
recruit people, but we can't retain them because not everyone is willing to make
30:26
that sacrifice to maintain themselves.
30:29
We have seen that some of the, law enforcement offices, like for example,
30:35
I'm here in Washington DC so Metropolitan Police Department, they have officers that
30:40
are working excessive amounts of overtime.
30:43
We're like, okay, fine.
30:44
this person wants to, Work over time.
30:47
But we know the long-term impact and the productivity on people that overwork
30:52
themselves, they become burned out.
30:55
They, start making mistakes.
30:57
They lack, discernment and judgment because they're just mentally exhausted.
31:03
So mental health is a priority for us and we have attracted some, mental health
31:07
professionals that wanna partner with us to address some of those issues.
31:13
And we will incorporate them into.
31:16
Our training program for our sheriffs, and by the way, we have started a sheriffs
31:20
academy, which is focused on developing leadership for our newly assigned
31:27
sheriffs and for individuals that want to go into run for office for sheriff,
31:32
and that's an important part of it.
31:34
Craig Floyd: Excellent.
31:36
Dennis and Bill, I, don't know if I've shared, the backstory with Anthony and
31:41
myself, but, years ago, I can't even remember how long ago, maybe 10 years
31:46
or, but the bottom line is Anthony contacted our office at the National
31:51
Law Enforcement Officer's Memorial Fund.
31:53
We were in the midst of building a national law enforcement
31:55
museum, and he was very kind.
31:58
We were trying to collect artifacts that told important.
32:01
Pieces of law enforcement's history and Anthony could not have been more generous.
32:07
He shared with us a number of artifacts related to his father, Lucius Amerson, the
32:13
first black sheriff since reconstruction in the South, elected, I think in 1966.
32:20
And, we touched on that earlier in our conversation, but I think it's
32:24
important to get into it a little deeper.
32:26
Anthony, your father's story is amazing.
32:31
we'd have a black sheriff, what, since 1877, I think you said something along
32:36
those lines, and all of a sudden your father gets the idea of, I'm gonna
32:40
run for sheriff in the south, the deep South Macon County, Alabama.
32:45
And, I can't imagine what.
32:47
Motivated him to do that.
32:49
the Ku Klux Klan obviously, had its teeth out in those days, causing
32:55
trouble for blacks, across the south.
32:58
and yet your father, courageously, I think ran for sheriff.
33:03
And, became the first black sheriff since Reconstruction in the South,
33:07
and we're so honored, that Bill and Dennis, I don't think you, you may not
33:11
know this, we have a section in our national law enforcement museum that
33:15
tells the story of Lucius Amerson and, we're very proud to be able to do that.
33:21
But Anthony, tell us a little bit about the history of your father.
33:24
Why in the world would a, a black man in the deep South decide to run for sheriff?
33:30
And how was he able to win?
33:35
Anthony Amerson: the short answer is he was at the right place at the right time.
33:40
interesting story about my dad that I learned is that he was born in 1933,
33:44
which was right near the end of the Great Depression, and he had, seven
33:49
siblings, five brothers, one sister and himself, and each one of his brothers
33:55
eventually left the rural town they grew up in and winning into the army.
33:59
Because around that time, world War II was starting to get generated and he
34:04
saw his brothers come home with money, experiences, excitement about life.
34:08
And let's face it, after the Great Depression, the country
34:12
was decimated financially.
34:14
And he saw the army as his way to see a different part of the world.
34:19
So with his most permission, he joined the army at 17 years old.
34:23
And around that time, the Korean conflict was just starting up.
34:27
It followed World War II shortly after early 1950s.
34:31
So they deployed him to Korea, where he served as an infantry man.
34:37
Now, these were hardened veterans who had come outta World War II and
34:41
were now going into the Korean War.
34:43
So that group of men had a certain, shrewdness about
34:48
themselves, about being a soldier.
34:51
It was a very hard life, and as I said, my father was just 17 years old.
34:55
Can you imagine a 17-year-old today going into combat and living there?
35:02
So he stayed in the army for eight and a half years, had different assignments,
35:06
and then eventually he got out and says, I want to continue my education.
35:11
So he used the GI Bill to enroll at Tuskegee Institute now
35:16
called Tuskegee University to pursue a degree in electronics.
35:20
This is around the 1960s and around the 1960s was a difficult time in American
35:26
history where there were clashes, domestic clashes internally that created
35:30
a lot of conflict across the country.
35:33
You talked before about the clan and other social changes that were taking
35:37
place, but on these college campuses, they were right with activism,
35:42
students that were promoting, voter registration, equality of rights, sit-ins,
35:50
demonstrations, all of those things are farther than 1960 civil rights movement.
35:55
We saw that he was pretty much, not focused on that part of activism.
36:00
He was like, I'm here to get my education.
36:02
I've been in war.
36:03
I'll have time for this things.
36:05
But unfortunately, there was a student on the campus who was,
36:10
brutally murdered while trying to test the public accommodations Act.
36:15
Public accommodations act basically say that bathrooms, public bathrooms
36:21
could not be seCraigated by color.
36:24
And there was one time, there was one gas station next to the bus station in the
36:28
town where my dad was going to college at, and one student activist wanted to test
36:33
it, and he wanted to go use the bathroom.
36:35
He was refused.
36:36
There were argument ensue and he was killed.
36:39
This created an outrage and a protest of the students.
36:43
As a result, my father saw that this is an opportunity because a local sheriff
36:48
did not do much to provide transparency or to provide sense of equality.
36:54
And the person that was arrested, this person by the way, they killed
36:58
this, student, was eventually exonerated by, a all white jury, but.
37:03
He says, after being in war, and soldiers get exposed to working with different
37:08
people and personalities, and this was one of the values that he brought with
37:12
him after he finished serving in the military and he saw the Sheriff's office
37:16
as an extension of a paramilitary type of organization similar to the army,
37:22
uniform structure, discipline, firearms, those things were very common to him.
37:27
So it just so happened that the voter's right ACT had recently got passed.
37:31
Which provided more access for African Americans to vote and the
37:35
students were already galvanized.
37:37
So he was at the right place at the right time when he decided to
37:41
run for sheriff, because his whole thing was, I want to have more
37:45
opportunities for myself in the future.
37:48
And he saw running for office as sheriff as one of those ways he could do it.
37:52
So he ran successfully.
37:55
He was elected.
37:58
Not to say after he was elected that things were peachy cream,
38:01
but it was a rather, highs and lows after he got elected.
38:05
Initially after getting elected, he was sought after and gave
38:09
over 100 speaking engagements to other Democratic, candidates that
38:14
were continually run for office.
38:16
He was invited to the White House to meet President Lyndon Johnson.
38:20
At the time, the Democratic Party was galvanizing voter registration, and
38:25
they invited a lot of newly elected, African-American leaders to the White
38:30
House to meet the president and talk more strategically about how to increase
38:33
voter output and things of that sort.
38:36
But then there were some issues that were really, man, as I learned about
38:40
him, it was really challenging for him.
38:42
He had a shootout at the jail one night where an inmate got ahold of a firearm
38:47
and started shooting and caused the chaos and caused all the law enforcement from
38:52
the state and other counties to come in.
38:55
He had a hard chase in the middle of the night where he almost
38:58
lost his life, chasing some, some kids that were in a runaway car.
39:04
going down the streaming, two lane highways, as a result,
39:08
his car was in an accident.
39:09
It ran off the road causing fire.
39:11
75% of his body was burned and he had to be hospitalized, and he just so
39:16
happened to be in an election year and he won election from his hospital bed.
39:21
So a lot.
39:24
Craig Floyd: I'm curious though, just to cut in for a moment.
39:27
How does a black man win an election in the deep sell in the 1960s?
39:33
That just seems unfathomable.
39:36
Anthony Amerson: Easy.
39:37
The demographic voter demographics in Macon County was 85% black.
39:44
So like I said, he was in the right place at the right time and all of
39:49
these students were so galvanized.
39:52
it, even today, look at some of the protest gatherings that are happening.
39:56
People are galvanized.
39:58
It was that same energy that was going on in the 1960s and the students
40:03
were like really pushing voter registration, going out, house by house
40:09
individual, individual by individual.
40:11
Getting them registered to vote.
40:13
And that was when I talked about he, my father was in the right place at the
40:16
right time because historically there were some areas in the south that was
40:21
like, even though we have the numbers to elect more black officials, we're just not
40:25
ready to do that because it would upset the status quo and the relationships.
40:30
But at this time in Macon County, by it being primarily
40:33
African American, voting base.
40:36
That was the time and they all came out in overwhelming
40:39
numbers and elected my father.
40:41
It was more like, this was their first battleground in testing
40:45
their ability to galvanize voters by getting him elected, so.
40:50
Craig Floyd: We see it, spread to other, southern areas, other southern
40:54
counties, where they electing black sheriffs, soon after your father.
41:00
Anthony Amerson: Absolutely, There were several, in Alabama.
41:05
in other parts of the country that were electing, black sheriffs after
41:09
my father's election, as I mentioned, he was in high demand as a speaker for
41:16
different cities that wanted to galvanize voting, so they were spreading the word.
41:21
The Democratic party had a net of.
41:25
Leaders across the country that were promoting more voter,
41:29
registration and galvanizing voters.
41:31
And they basically tapped him into a role where he was sent
41:34
and dispatched to go and speak.
41:36
Churches, schools, going to elected officials, making public appearances
41:41
to talk about the importance of getting, of voting, the importance of.
41:46
Getting folks registered to vote and the role that they could take
41:49
in performing in the society.
41:51
So it wasn't so difficult for him to do because of the location and the democratic
41:56
support for candidates at that time.
41:59
and it helped a lot because after he was elected, there were hundreds of sheriffs
42:05
elected all the way to the today where we now we have more than 175 African-American
42:10
sheriffs serving in office with 19 of those being African-American females.
42:17
Bill Erfurth: So I wanna jump in, Anthony, and you, you hit on this a little bit
42:20
about the car chase and your father, was severely burned, 85% of his body.
42:27
clearly he, survived and, went on.
42:30
But you mentioned earlier on that you were.
42:33
A year and a half old when he became sheriff and he was
42:36
sheriff for 20 years there.
42:37
So it was all of your developmental years.
42:40
So you must have heard lots of stories.
42:43
Been around the cop shop a bunch of times, met all the other deputies and cops.
42:49
Everybody loves a wild police story.
42:52
Of those 20 years that you remember being around your
42:55
dad, what's the craziest story?
43:00
Anthony Amerson: as because of the age that I was at, I didn't really
43:02
have firsthand account of some of the, bizarre incidents he happened.
43:07
But, my father was a, he was the type of person where he archived everything
43:13
about his life in great tale news, articles, photographs, letters.
43:20
All of those things he kept in his possession and that kind of, and once I
43:24
started diving into the research about his life, it really opened my eyes about
43:28
the impact he had across the country.
43:30
I think the most bizarre story that really inspired me to really go forward
43:36
with, promoting my father's legacy was the car chase, because it was like one
43:41
of these things out of a movie where, you know, in the middle of the night.
43:45
You get a call about some, criminals that are in a hot high speed pursuit
43:51
through your county, and you join in on this ongoing pursuit down these winding
43:57
country roads only to be, collide with the vehicle that was, in the way and
44:04
as a result being, forced off the road and your vehicle catching on fire.
44:09
75% of his body and also badly burned.
44:12
He was hospitalized.
44:13
His firearm of choice was a 3 57 Magnum, and that damaged firearm is also
44:19
archived in the National Law Enforcement Memorial Museum for folks to see.
44:24
But that really showed me a lot about my father's courage because it's
44:30
difficult to take on some of these jobs, and that was a bizarre story.
44:35
For me to re about 'cause I had the police reports, I had eyewitness, and
44:39
then I got letters from people all across the country who sent to my father,
44:44
wishing him well, speedy recovery.
44:47
And the interesting thing about, the way people correspond back then than
44:52
they do today where we have emails in Texas, everyone was handwriting
44:56
letters and they were signing them.
44:58
It was so interesting to see these letters signed from people all over the country.
45:03
wishing you a speed of recovery.
45:05
We thank you so much for what you're doing.
45:07
Sign Joyce K. White, Oregon, the state of Oregon, Denver, Colorado.
45:14
So it was so interesting how people put their identity in some
45:18
of the written correspondence.
45:20
That they sent to him.
45:21
And it was like people were really supporting not only him as an
45:24
individual, but law enforcement.
45:26
They were supporting law in order and that covered all demographic
45:30
backgrounds and all colors,
45:33
Bill Erfurth: So you mentioned that he chronicled and saved and wrote down many
45:38
of his experiences as, as a, sheriff and during your childhood that ultimately
45:44
led to a book that the two of you did.
45:47
Isn't that right?
45:48
Anthony Amerson: yes.
45:50
the book is called Great Courage and it's a story, the Autobiography of my
45:55
Father, first Black Sheriff, elected in, in the South after reconstruction.
46:00
we have,
46:03
it's available on our website in case you wanna get a copy.
46:08
This book is basically my father speaking to people today,
46:14
and I recently discovered.
46:16
Letters that he had wrote saying he wanted to archive his life in a museum.
46:22
And that's the next subject that I wanted to introduce about the Black Sheriff's
46:26
Memorial that we built here in Washington, DC to honor him as well as other black
46:31
sheriffs in the history of America.
46:36
This a memorial that you're working on?
46:40
Yes, We've been working on it for about four years now.
46:43
Okay.
46:43
it's in Washington, DC.
46:45
It's got, some static displays, some, famous, black sheriffs have passed.
46:51
It's got some, military memorial memorabilia where you can see tracing
46:57
my father's time in the military.
46:59
The different units, the different assignments, and then it's got
47:02
some of his personal artifacts that are gonna be in display letters.
47:06
Signage, photographs, all of these things are going to be provided to the public
47:11
and it'll have a QR code system where you can go and get more information
47:15
about some of the displays and artifacts.
47:18
And we're scheduling to cut that in, February of next year
47:22
during Black History Month.
47:23
Craig Floyd: Wow, outstanding.
47:25
I, I wanna known, I, wish I had the number in front of me, but, there are
47:29
literally thousands of names of black law enforcement professionals on the National
47:34
Law Enforcement Officers Memorial in Washington, DC and, and as I said, we have
47:40
this special exhibit in our national law enforcement museum that focuses on, Lucius
47:46
Amerson and the story of the first black sheriff since reconstruction in the South.
47:51
But, clearly.
47:53
black law enforcement officers are prevalent in every
47:56
community in this country.
47:58
They're serving, they're protecting, and they're sacrificing.
48:01
And I'm so glad to hear there's gonna be a memorial specifically devoted to black
48:06
law enforcement professionals, their stories, their sacrifice, very important
48:11
part of what we're trying to do here.
48:14
your father was an amazing man.
48:17
and very courageous, but I have to believe that there were times, despite
48:22
the 80% or more blacks in his county, that the Klan and other whites,
48:29
with their bigotry, at the time, must have made it difficult for him.
48:34
Are there any stories that come to mind when we talk about the
48:36
challenges he faced from, the, bigotry in the south at the time?
48:43
Anthony Amerson: Believe it or not, most of the bigotry that he faced was
48:46
from other African American people.
48:48
Huh, okay.
48:49
The shootout that I talked about involved an African American man who was drunk
48:54
and was being processed into the jail, disowned a deputy, and started shooting
49:00
and he was calling and my father happened to be in the jail at that
49:02
time, and he was calling him by name.
49:03
Come out.
49:04
Come out, no wanna have conflict.
49:08
My father was able to, escape through an exit in a jail.
49:12
And this guy basically ran out of bullets.
49:14
And after he ran out of bullets, he, he changed into a somber tone when
49:19
he came outside and saw all of these law enforcement folks in the middle
49:21
of the night with lights shining on the jail and got guns drawn at.
49:26
And, he changed his, perspective then, and he was more humbling, but for
49:32
some reason, during his, surrender.
49:36
Some of the other law enforcement officials who knew this individual did
49:40
not want to handcuff them and restrain him after just taking siege of the jail.
49:46
And my father's response was he used his firearm to, basically
49:53
strike this individual because he felt like he was still a threat
49:56
and he was not being restrained.
49:58
And this individual went and filed a civil lawsuit for police
50:02
brutality against my fault.
50:04
Wow.
50:06
Believe it or not, it was the National Sheriff's Association that stood up for my
50:10
father and all law enforcement officials because they said if we now penalize
50:16
sheriffs for doing their authority.
50:21
That it would create a legal precedence where it would make other sheriffs
50:25
vulnerable if they were in the same situation and his case was dismissed,
50:30
as a result of the advocacy from other law enforcement officials and from, an
50:37
attorney general at the time who was very supportive of what my father was doing.
50:41
Believe it or not, most of the, conflict that he faced was from the
50:46
African American community than the white community after the 1960s.
50:49
And it went into the 1970s, it was more normalized to have black sheriffs
50:55
because for the most part, most of the, the, economic basis in the
51:01
south were not in black counties.
51:03
They were in more of the major.
51:05
Counties in the south, like Atlanta, Birmingham.
51:08
So those were areas where some of the, people in the
51:12
community decided to retreat to.
51:14
And they just basically left the black counties alone, have their own leadership,
51:19
own mayors, things of that sort.
51:22
So it, was a very interesting part of history to see the dynamics
51:26
of people from his own race were opposed to, or were trying to,
51:33
Devalue his authority.
51:36
Craig Floyd: I know you were, you and I were discussing some of the reforms
51:40
that we learned about, that were made.
51:43
Perhaps you wanna get into that a little bit with Anthony here as we come to a
51:46
close of this very intriguing discussion.
51:49
Yeah, I think, the idea was he took a lot of the military, experience.
51:55
What he had learned, working in the military and, applied some of those
52:00
disciplines, codes of conduct, et cetera.
52:04
I, think he was very innovative in, in terms of what he did as sheriff.
52:08
Not just being the first black sheriff, but somebody that really started
52:12
to make the Macon County Sheriff's Office a more professionalized.
52:17
Anthony Amerson: Yeah, absolutely.
52:18
the experience that he took from the military was so invaluable,
52:22
for him, even after he left.
52:24
Having rules and regulations, standard operating procedures, uniformity,
52:29
code of conduct for behavior for his deputies was the foundation
52:34
that he established for his office.
52:37
And it allowed his office to scale up his operations very quickly.
52:42
originally his staff was maybe three people, and then eventually they got 5, 6,
52:46
7, and then other people were added to it.
52:49
His reforms reform basic, as they were considered, were very
52:53
instrumental in setting up the basic operation for sheriff's office.
52:58
Now, most of the sheriffs in the country today don't have jails, but back then, in
53:03
those rural areas, the sheriff had jails.
53:05
They had to support the courts.
53:07
They had to support, evictions.
53:09
They had to support all of these other services, so him having some reform,
53:13
the reform measures that he put in place were very instrumental in allowing him
53:17
to do his job more efficiently as well as create more transparency in the community.
53:24
Craig Floyd: Excellent.
53:25
just a closing comment really, and I'll turn it over to Dennis
53:28
to, to get us outta here.
53:30
But the bottom line is, citizens behind the badge, is proud to be
53:36
able to partner with the National Black Sheriff's Association.
53:40
There's a lot of common ground, certainly the mental health issues,
53:43
certainly the recruitment of, good, young people to become a part of
53:48
the law enforcement profession.
53:50
strengthening the relationship.
53:52
Between the community and law enforcement.
53:56
All right.
53:56
And a lot of that deals with race.
53:58
there's been some racial tension obviously in communities around this
54:01
country as some of these high profile incidents have gotten a lot of attention.
54:06
I think we have a lot of work still to do in that area and, I think together.
54:11
Citizens behind the badge and the National Black Sheriff's
54:13
Association can do some good.
54:16
Anthony, I'm so glad you reached out to me.
54:18
so honored really that you're able to join us here today, to
54:22
talk about these important issues.
54:24
so thank you, sir.
54:27
Anthony Amerson: Thank you Craig.
54:28
And thank you for your platform and what you're doing.
54:31
We have to step up and speak out on some of these issues because as the
54:35
society is reshaping, we have to put the voice out there so folks can start
54:40
becoming more normalized to the way things are going to look and to raise
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more attention on the importance of law enforcement in ensuring as civil society
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can operate that it needs to operate.
54:51
So thank you for everything you're doing.
54:53
Thank you so much for reaching out.
54:55
Dennis Collins: Again, it's Heroes.
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Behind the Badge are, sponsored by Citizens Behind the Badge.
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Citizens Behind the Badge is the leading voice of the American people in support
55:06
of the men and women of law enforcement.
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For Heroes Behind the Badge, Craig Floyd and Bill Erfurth.
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We'll see you next time.
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This is Dennis Collins signing off.