Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Extensive Forensic Work Done At the House (9/8/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Extensive Forensic Work Done At the House (9/8/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Brian
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger left DNA at the scene of the crime at
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the very least on the sheath of that knife. Now
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: the question becomes, did he leave any other DNA around
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: the house? And chances are that he did. So the investigators,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: they're going to have other sources of DNA probably to
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: use when it comes to trying to prosecute Brian Koberger
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: for these crimes. We all know that DNA is going
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to be a huge factor here. It's already been a
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: huge factor. And with there not being an actual eyewitness
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: to the crime, they're going to have to tie Brian
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Koberger there using this DNA. So as of now, we
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: know that they got some one-touch DNA, basically. And that
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: is from skin and him handling that sheath, opening the button,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: snapping it closed, whatever it was. His DNA is on
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: that button. And his defense team is going to have
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: to argue why his DNA is on that button and
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: why that sheath was in the house in the bed
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: of a murdered girl. Seems like a monumental task if
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: you ask me. And forget it if they find other
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: DNA that ties him to this scene. So I really
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: don't know what kind of strategy Koberger thinks he's going
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: to employ here, but it's not looking real good for him.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: And the more DNA evidence that they find, the worse
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: things get for Brian Koberger. Today we have an article
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: from Newsweek and the headline, Brian Koberger may have left
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: more DNA at the Idaho house. This article was authored
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: by Kalita Rockman. Brian Koberger may have left more DNA
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: at the house where he allegedly murdered four University of
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Idaho students, according to an expert on genetic genealogy. DNA
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: from a lone male was found on a knife sheath
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: recovered at the rental home in Moscow, where the victims,
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin, were
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: killed in the early morning hours on November 13th, according
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: to a probable cause affidavit unsealed on Thursday. The affidavit
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: said that DNA was then matched with the DNA from
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: the suspect's father found in trash taken from Koberger's parents'
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: home in Pennsylvania where he was arrested in late December.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Not only is Koberger a coward for skulking around in
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: people's houses and murdering them, allegedly, but what sort of
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: punk-ass bitch brings their problems home to their old-ass parents
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: the way this dude did? How many of these people
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: are we going to see do that? Saw it with
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Brian Laundrie. All of these people that bring their problems
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: to their families. What sort of piece of shit are you?
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: It's not bad enough. You've embarrassed the family at this point.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: But now you have to have the police raid my house,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: break my windows, kick in my door. I'd be real
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: mad at this dude if I was his dad. That
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: was done using a standard test. that has been accepted
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: in courtrooms for decades to establish paternity. C.C. Moore, chief
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: genetic genealogist at Parabon, nanolabs set on NewsNation on Saturday.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: So that is very, very high confidence. And just about
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: every forensic expert that we hear from says the same thing,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: that there's going to be a lot more DNA at
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: this scene that's going to tie Kohlberger to these murders.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: And I just don't know how him or his defense
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: team is going to counteract that. Bloodstained mattresses and furniture
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: were removed from the crime scene this weekend. Moore said
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: it's possible that Koberger, a 28-year-old criminal justice doctoral student
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: at Washington State University, just across the state border from Moscow,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: could also be linked to other DNA found at the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: crime scene. This was such an incredibly horrible crime scene
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: and we're learning more and more all the time. I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: think it's very likely there's additional DNA from Brian at
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the scene, Moore said. Now, whether it's spittle from his
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: mouth or he cut himself or hair, chances are the
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: investigators found other sources of DNA. And now just because
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: it's not in the probable cause affidavit doesn't mean that
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: they don't have it. Even in the probable cause affidavit,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: they're not going to show their full hand. They're going
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: to give enough where a judge is going to sign
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: off on an arrest warrant. And that's it. Because they
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: want to drop the information, the evidence on the accused
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: come discovery. They don't want to let them know early, right?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: So that they can build a strategy, build a game plan.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: So they probably have more DNA and they just haven't
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: released it yet. The DNA recovered from the knife sheath
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: was probably touch DNA, Moore said. I wouldn't be all
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: that surprised if he left additional DNA behind, Moore added,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: noting that the affidavit detailed how an unharmed roommate saw
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: a masked intruder with bushy eyebrows walking toward her on
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the night of the killings. We know from the witness
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: statement that at least his eyebrows were showing, and it
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: sounds like his hair wasn't even covered, Moore said, so
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: he may have left hair behind as well, which also
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: contains DNA. advancements in technology have meant that we can
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: get quite a lot of information from even a rootless
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: hair now. So I think both they and the defense
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: are scouring that crime scene to see what else is there.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: There is no doubt that the crime scene is the
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: roadmap to finding who did this. And with the investigators
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: being there as long as they were and doing all
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of the diligent investigating that they did, Hopefully they have
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: secured more DNA that's going to make their case even
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: stronger against Brian Koberger. Because you know his team is
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: going to have some sort of defense. But I can't
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: figure out what that defense is going to be at
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: this point. Because all of the evidence that we have,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that we have seen, it really looks bad for Brian Koberger.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: She said it wasn't clear why the mattresses were being
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: moved now. I think there's a lot of work on
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: that crime scene already gathering any possible physical evidence to
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: the prosecution's case to try and support their case. She
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: said Koberger's defense team would be looking to try to
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: find somebody else's DNA that they can try and pin
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: this crime on. She added, well, that shouldn't be too
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: difficult considering this is a party house. They should be
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: able to find some DNA of other people, but you're
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: going to have to explain all the other stuff as well.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Finding the DNA is one thing. How are you going
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: to explain all of the other stuff? The phone pinging,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: coming back, the fact that the phone was turned off
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: and turned back on, the surgical gloves. There's a lot here.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: And while all of it taken on its own doesn't
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: look that damning, when you weave it all together in
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the manner that these investigators have, it becomes a lot
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: more than just one little simple incident. It's the totality
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: of all of that stuff added up in the overall
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: arching investigation. And that's exactly what these investigators have done.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So if Brian Koberger's team wants to say, well, there's
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: other DNA there from other people, it wasn't Brian Koberger
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: who did this. They're going to have to explain all
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: of the other stuff as well. Jennifer Koffendaffer, a former
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: FBI agent, told Newsweek that it's possible DNA from sweat
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: or saliva from the person who killed the students could
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: be recovered from the crime scene. Now we know he
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: was wearing a mask according to what the roommate said,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: but we also know that he was talking and he
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: said that he was there to help according to what
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: we read in the affidavit. So did he take the
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: mask down so he could talk to his victim? Remember,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with obviously a psychotic narcissist here. So did
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: he take his mask down so that his victim could
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: hear him clearly, clearly? Again, we don't know yet, but
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: if he did, there's chances that there is trace saliva
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: evidence still on those bodies. You leave a trace of
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: yourself no matter where you go and you take traces
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: of where you've been with you, she said. I have
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: always said from the beginning, DNA will be the savior
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: in this case because there is no perfect murder when
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: it comes to DNA. It will be left behind. She's
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: not wrong. This day and age, if the police really
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: want to find out who killed somebody, they're going to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: find out eventually. It all comes down to resources and
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: how many people are working on the case. On News Nation,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Moore also said that she thinks it's possible that investigative
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: genetic genealogy was initially used by law enforcement to hone
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: in on Koberger as the suspect in the killings. It
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: may have helped to determine whether that Koberger's family tree
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: was consistent with the DNA sample from the knife sheath.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Moore said, they don't have to include everything in the
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: affidavit and genetic genealogy should not be used for the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: basis of an arrest. So in my opinion, it would
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: be proper that they left it out. Yeah, it's just
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: one of the building blocks that they use, one of
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: the tools that they use to get them where they're going.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: So the genetic genealogy, that's not admissible in court. But
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: it's a building block to get to a point where
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: you have evidence that's strong enough that becomes admissible in court.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: And that's why this genetic genealogy is so important and
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: so crucial to these investigators these days. Moore has been
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: contacted for further comment. Koberger made his first appearance in
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Idaho court where he... faces four charges of first degree
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: murder on Thursday. He didn't enter a plea and was
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: ordered to be held without bail. So as this investigation
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: continues to evolve and we learn more, I have zero
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: doubt that we're going to hear about more DNA that
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: was found in this house that can be tied to Koberger. Now,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: the question is going to become after that, what his
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: defense team does with that? How are they going to
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: defend him from pretty much ironclad evidence? And I'm very
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: interested to see what their strategy is moving forward. All right, folks,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can also find
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. In this episode, we're
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: going to continue talking about the new documentary on Court
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: TV that was produced by Court TV anchor Ted Rollins.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And in this documentary, he's talking about a whole slew
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: of different issues, all the way from the testimony of
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the surviving roommates, all the way up to the strength
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: of the DNA evidence that's been collected against Brian Kohlberger.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And as I've said from the beginning, the DNA evidence
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: is the most pivotal. But even that DNA evidence alone
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: is not enough to convict Brian Kohlberger. It's the totality
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: of everything they have together that really makes the terrain
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: so treacherous for Brian Kohlberger and his legal team. Because
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: there is just a mountain of evidence that when put
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: together is very, very strong. So continuing the conversation about
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: that DNA evidence, we have an article today from the
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: New York Post. And the headline, DNA evidence alone is
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: not enough to convict Brian Koberger. According to a trial expert,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: this article was authored by Alyssa Guzman. And that is
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: a fact. It's not just going to be the DNA
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: that does it. While it's the strongest bit of evidence,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: it's not just the DNA on its own that's going
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: to see Koberger end up with the death penalty. Like
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: any good recipe, you need many elements put together for
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: the final product to come out and for it to
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: be tasty. Brian Koberger's defense team is going to attack
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the DNA evidence against him when he goes to trial
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: in the grisly murder of four University of Idaho students.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: But it still might not save him from a guilty verdict,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a trial expert told the Post. Well, yeah. because the
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: evidence against them is strong. And they know that the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: DNA evidence is the strongest bit of evidence that they've collected.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: So the prosecution wants to obviously make sure that that's
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: out in the forefront. But the defense, on the other hand,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: they want to try and punch holes in it. They
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: want to know who collected it. They want to know
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: their experience levels. They want all of it. Were all
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of the DOJ protocols respected as you built your genealogical trees?
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: They're going to do all of that. And that's going
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: to be the basis of their challenge. You know what
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: they're not going to challenge? That it's Kohlberger's DNA that's
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: on that knife sheath. You know why they're not going
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: to challenge that? Because they can't. The buccal swab that
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: was on the warrant, well, that buccal swab came back hot.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: And once that buccal swab came back hot, there's no
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: doubt whose DNA it was on that knife sheath. DNA
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: on itself. It's not everything. Court TV anchor Ted Rowlands,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: who has covered high-profile trials for more than 20 years, said,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: People can leave their DNA on items they've never touched
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: and in rooms they've never been in. Yeah? How about
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: the DNA on the button of a sheath of a
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: knife that was just used to murder two girls? Oh,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: and by the way, that sheath? Still under the body
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: of one of them. Kohlberger, 28, is accused of slaughtering
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin in
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: their off-campus home on November 13th of 2022. The Washington
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: State University criminology student was identified as a suspect after
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: he allegedly left DNA on a knife sheath found by
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: cops at the crime scene. Rowland said he expects Koberger's
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: lawyers will try to get the DNA evidence tossed out.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: That's not going so well for them. And considering the
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: rulings that Judge Judge has made, I highly doubt that
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: that's going to change. I highly doubt Judge Judge is
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: going to toss this DNA out. Now, however, if there
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: was some kind of prosecutorial misconduct. some kind of issue
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: with chain of custody, then maybe. But remember, the whole
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: entire argument that the DNA was sent to a different lab,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: sent to somebody else, that's moot. Right in the warrant itself,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: when we went through the warrants, it says that the
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies can send those samples to anybody they
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: think is going to help them with their investigation. And
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: they don't need a court order to do so. So
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: that whole entire basis, that whole argument that they're going
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: to try, it's invalidated right from the jump. But if
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: they can come up with some kind of chain of
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: custody issue, something like that, then maybe they'll have themselves
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: some tenable ground. But besides that, it's all going to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: be spinning your wheels in neutral as far as the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: DNA goes. The judge ain't tossing it. I think that
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: from the defense's point of view, you're going to see
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: a huge attack on the DNA because if you get
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: rid of that, you have a chance, he said. Well,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get rid of it, but he's
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: not wrong. The DNA is the glue. If they didn't
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: have that DNA, it would be very, very difficult for
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: them to prosecute this case. Would it be impossible? No,
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: but it would be a lot more difficult. However, this
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: isn't just DNA. It's DNA tied to the murder weapon, allegedly.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: The trial expert added, and this is what I've been saying.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: You know, all this headline grabbing stuff is all fine
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: and well, and I get it, and I know why
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: they do it. But the reality is, unless you can
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: explain that DNA on the sheath, all this other contrarian
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: bullshit goes right out the window for me. Still, Rowlands, 57,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: said there are too many other things that potentially tie
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: the accused murderer to the quadruple killing, such as having
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: a white Hyundai, the same car, near the crime scene
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: shortly after the murders. In addition, Koberger had his cell
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: phone off which made it harder to pinpoint his exact
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: location while the Moscow murders were taking place to give
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: him an alibi. If he was really smart, if he
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: was sophisticated, he would have left his phone at home
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: and he would have left it on. Get yourself a
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: burner phone if you're going to commit crimes, dum-dum. And
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: by the way, don't ever take your burner phone with
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: your real phone when you're leaving the house. Thanks for
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: coming to my TED Talk. And that's why I find
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: it laughable when people are out here talking about, oh, well,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: he was a criminologist. Why would he ever leave the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: knife sheath? Well, dude was a criminologist and forgot the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: very basics of being a criminal. And that is, A,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: you don't use your own car if you're committing crimes,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: and B, don't bring your cell phone. I mean, we're
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: talking about criminal behavior 101. He thought that if he
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: turned his phone off, he'd get away with it, Rowland
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: said of the alleged killer. They have some hurdles. He
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: said of the defense team. Yeah, that's putting it mildly.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Some hurdles. We're talking about forget hurdles. We're talking about hurdles, minefields.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And then not only that, we also have alligators that
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: are popping up to rip your leg off as you're
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: jumping over the hurdles. That's the current outlook for the defense.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: So I would say hurdles is putting it mildly. When
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: asked why he thought that the knife sheath had been
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: left behind at the scene of the bloody slaying, Rowland
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: said he believes it was a complete accident. And I
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: think so too. I think it was all in the moment.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: I believe that Maddie Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves fought back,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and whoever was in there with the knife, that's what
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the girls took. They grabbed it, and that's why it
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: was there. I can't believe any other scenario. That makes sense,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: he said. Unless, of course, Koberger didn't have that sheath
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: attached and he just dropped it in the middle of
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: this scuffle. Because I've always speculated that he didn't expect
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: that Kaylee was going to be there. He thought that
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: he was going to have the time that he wanted
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: with Madison. He only planned to hurt Madison. But Kaylee
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: was there and it threw everything into disarray. And then
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: after Kaylee was killed and he killed Madison, he went
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: stumbling out of that room, ran into XANA, killed her
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: and Ethan, and then slithered out the back door like
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: the fucking snake he is. That's what I think happened.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: Whoever did this, whether it be Kohlberger or somebody else.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: It's the last thing in the world, especially if it
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: was Koberger, Mr. Criminology. It's the last thing in the
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: world that that person would do, would be, to leave
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: behind his DNA, Rowland said. Well, look, accidents happen. And
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you're the greatest criminal in the world.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: All it takes is one mistake. And Brian Koberger being
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: a criminologist, all the other stuff leading up to it,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not too impressed. cell phone on, using your own car,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: staking the place out. All of that stuff is going
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to lead directly back to you after something like this happens.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: And as Mr. Big Shot Criminologist, you would think you
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: would know that. So maybe, just maybe, Brian Kohlberger wasn't
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: that great of a student, wasn't that great of a criminologist,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and in fact, was nowhere near as smart as he
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: thought he was. Rowlands, who has produced a documentary about
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: the high-profile case, also thinks that Pennsylvania's native criminology studies
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: will play a large role at trial. It paints that
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: picture of the ultimate scary boogeyman that there's no way
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: to defend yourself off somebody that's analyzing, allegedly, the art
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: of killing. He said, definitely that Hannibal Lecter type shit.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Certainly not to that level, but those kind of feels.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Got yourself a criminologist, a psychologist, and they're out here
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: murdering people. Yeah, definitely not the most comforting fact we've
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: ever talked about. That's basically what I think they're going
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: to argue, that this guy researched this and followed through
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: with it. And that's certainly how it appears. All the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: different trips to the house, allegedly, the trip after the
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: murders back to the house to take a look at
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: his work, allegedly, all of that's going to add up.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And when you add all of that to the DNA
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: and all of the other evidence that's been presented, I
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: don't know how any jury anywhere in the world would
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: can look at it and say, you know what, we
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: don't have enough evidence here. Because, my friends, the evidence
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: is clear, and the evidence is abundant. Rowlands also theorized
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: if Koberger is the murderer, he may have wanted to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: test the system. I think he wanted to test the
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: system and act out on whatever internal impulses, he said.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: I think if he got away with this, that this
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: would have just been the beginning, assuming he actually did this.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: And I agree. Again, like I said a second ago,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: I think originally it was only about Maddie. And that's
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: why we see the overkill. on Kaylee. He didn't expect
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: her there. He was pissed that she was there. And
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: he felt like she was taking away from his special
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: time with Maddie. And I truly believe that the original
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: plan was just to kill Maddie and then get away
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: with it and then probably do it again at some point.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: But I think it's all of these what ifs, all
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: of these curves in the road and all of these
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: questions that still have no answers that makes this case
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: so fascinating. and makes people so interested in what's going
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: to happen. So we'll continue to follow along and see
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: what goes down. And with the anniversary of the murders
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: upon us, there's certainly more to come. All of the
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: the description box. And welcome back to the program. For
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the investigators who are investigating what happened in Moscow, collecting
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: DNA from the site is going to be quite the task. Now,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I know that they have collected a whole bunch of it,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and the house is basically closed out for investigative purposes,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: according to the police. They've pretty much finished their search
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: at the house, collected what they're going to collect, and
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: they have sent it off for DNA analysis. Now, we're
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: hearing that some of these results have come back already.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: And I heard on a Nancy Grace video, she was
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: saying something like none of the matches even hit in CODIS. Now,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: that's simply rumor and speculation by Nancy Grace, but it
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: is pretty concerning. And you would think that if they
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: had a match in CODIS already, that they would have
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: somebody who would be their suspect. Now, remember, they said
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: that this killer was Messy. He was sloppy or they
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: were sloppy and that a lot of DNA was found
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: at the scene. Now, the question is, was any of
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: that DNA belonging to the killer? Because the longer we
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: go here and the more we move away from this
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: being a targeted attack, we have to start thinking, was
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: this some sort of sophisticated plan that was put into
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: place by somebody who had no desire to get caught here?
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: And as we get more information back, obviously, DNA, test results, toxicology,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: all of that, it'll provide a more robust picture. But
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: if Nancy Grace is right, and none of this stuff
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: is hitting CODIS yet, that is a bit concerning. Today
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: we have an article from Newsweek and the headline, Retrieving
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: DNA from House of Slain Idaho Students Could Be a Nightmare.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Kalita Rockman. As police continue
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: to work on figuring out who is behind the brutal
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: slaying of four University of Idaho students, experts say the
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: DNA evidence in the case may pose a massive challenge
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: for investigators. Certainly not what we want to hear, right?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Considering that it's DNA that usually leads investigators to where
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: they're trying to go. Now, of course, these are people
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: talking about the case. These investigators, these... professionals, experts, they're
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: not people who are actually working on the case. We
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: always have to keep that in mind and take it
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: with a grain of salt, right? These are just expert
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: opinions and what they think about what is going on
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: or what might occur. That doesn't mean that this is,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: you know, 100% ironclad that the investigators haven't gotten anything
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: from DNA or that they won't get anything from DNA,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: but it's certainly a possibility. Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle,
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: and Kernodle's boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, were found dead in their
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: beds in a house near the university campus in Moscow
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: on November 13th. The women lived at the house, and
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Chapin was visiting. Two roommates who were in the house
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: at the time slept through the attack, police said, and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: they are not believed to be involved in the crime.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people who think it
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: was a targeted attack think that it was targeted because
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the roommate survived. And that's certainly a logical road to
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: go down. And it's certainly something that I believe as well.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: But when we start getting the confusion from the investigators
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: walking it back and saying it wasn't a targeted attack,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I'd like to know some more information about what was
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: going on In the roommate's room. Meaning, do they have
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: locks on their doors? Were the doors locked? Did somebody
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: try and get in their room and know that they
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: see the door was locked and decided, all right, well,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: we're just going to go upstairs and go on our rampage.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: Because if you try and kick a door in or
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: break a door down, that pretty much ends your whole
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: entire rampage right there, right? So maybe, and again, just
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: my speculation, maybe the killer or killers tried the doorknob,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: saw that it was locked, and decided just to move
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: on with their rampage. The slayings have left the community reeling,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: with police yet to name any suspects in the case
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: or locate a murder weapon. Forensic evidence collected from the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: crime scene is being processed, the Moscow Police Department said
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: on its website. More than 100 pieces of physical evidence
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: were collected and then taken to the Idaho State Police
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Crime Lab, the police said. We know that this information
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: and this DNA and this evidence, some of it's been
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: processed already and the results have been sent back to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: the police department. We know that. But the rest of it,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the bulk of it, it's going to take some time. Toxicology,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: all of this stuff doesn't happen overnight usually. And I
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: would love to see the FBI, the state, hell, the
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: federal government even, send out mobile testing labs to help
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: expedite the process here. Look, we got four dead college students, folks.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Nobody has any idea who did it. Community is in
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: jeopardy still. And the parents certainly deserve some justice. So
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I would be completely on board with my federal tax
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: dollars being spent to bring in some mobile labs here.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Experts say the nature of the crime and where it
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: took place means the DNA evidence may be difficult for
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: investigators to utilize. And that is not what anyone wants
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: to hear. But it's a reality. If there is corrupted DNA...
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: or the crime scene has been contaminated, it's going to
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: be very difficult for them to use that DNA and
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: come to a conclusion on who the person or persons were.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: It's five young women that occupy the space regularly, and
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: then you have one who was a boyfriend that was there, obviously,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: and is one of the victims. Joseph Scott Morgan, a
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: distinguished scholar of applied forensics at Jacksonville State University in Alabama,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: told Newsweek, you're going to have their common DNA in
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that house, just as a result of occupancy. And for sure,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: there's going to be a lot of DNA in that house,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: not only from the occupancy, but from all of the
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: people that were in and out, hanging out, coming over
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: for kickbacks, coming over to chill before games, football games
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: or whatever. So there's going to be a ton of
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: cross-contaminated DNA in that house. Neighbors have told reporters that
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: parties and gatherings were regularly held at the house, while
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: police have said the surviving roommates summoned friends to the
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: residence before a 911 call requesting aid was made at 11.58 a.m.,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and responding officers arrived and located the victims on the
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: second and third floors. Morgan says those people likely left
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: evidence of their presence, such as skin cells and hair.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: All of that has to be taken into account, he said.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: So basically, the DNA scene, the crime scene, is going
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: to be quite the puzzle for the investigator. And as
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: we're getting some more of those DNA results back, I
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: hope that they were able to isolate who's who and
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: then eliminate people that way, right? All right, well, we
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: know this person wasn't involved, so that piece of DNA
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: can be put to the wayside. But it's certainly a
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: challenging task. This is not an easy thing that these
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: investigators are doing. And while I might criticize the messaging
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and how they've packaged this investigation, I completely understand that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: they have... a gigantic task ahead of them and it's
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: not going to happen in one day. If any of
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: these occupants had other romantic partners, perhaps that would be
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: there with more frequency than others. Then there might be
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: a robust DNA signature left behind by those individuals. It's
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: a big obstacle for the investigators to overcome. Joseph Giacloni,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: a retired New York police sergeant and adjunct professor at
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: John Jay College of Criminal Justice, agreed, telling Newsweek, DNA
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: is going to be tough because of the fact that
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: you have a college house, lots of kids in there.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: That's just a given. With as much traffic as was
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: going in and out of that house, unless there was
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: some DNA left by the killer or killers on the victims,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: it's going to be difficult for the investigators to parcel
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: this all out. God knows how clean it was or
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: how much DNA you're going to find from several different donors.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Any DNA that they find from an unknown subject is
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: going to take a while to come through. Giacalone urged
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the public to be patient as investigators work the case.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: We have to be patient, there's no doubt. But at
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: the same time, it's up to the investigators not to
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: shoot themselves in their own foot. It's up to them
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: not to package this the wrong way. And if they
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: can't get their messaging straight, don't give any messaging at all.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: Just give us written, updated, you know, portions of your
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: case or whatever you want to give the community that
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: way instead of getting up there and saying something that
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: you're going to regret later. They're going to have to
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: wait for these DNA tests, toxicology reports to come back,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: he said. So if they have collected hair fibers, blood samples,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: all that stuff takes time. He added that there is
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: no guarantee that even if a suspect's DNA is isolated,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: it would match anyone in the national CODIS database. And
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: that's what I mentioned earlier. Remember, just speculation, something that
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I heard Nancy Grace talk about. I can't confirm it
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: one way or the other, but she says that what
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: they've gotten back so far hasn't matched in CODIS. So
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: that's a bit concerning, but we do have to remember
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: there's a ton of DNA to go through. So just
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: because stuff hasn't popped yet doesn't mean that it won't
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: later on down the road. Then that presents a whole
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: other problem because now you have to look at the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: familial DNA aspects of it and that takes even longer,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: he said. So I think you have to give the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: police department a little bit of breathing room. These kinds
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: of cases are exhausting. The Moscow Police Department has been
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: contacted for comment And look, I'm willing to do that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: as well. I'm not somebody who's piling on here by
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: any means. I know that these investigators want to solve
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: this case. I'm certainly not sitting here thinking that they're,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: you know, playing dominoes in the office and not doing
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: their job. But with that said, that doesn't mean they
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: or the investigation are above reproach or above criticism. So
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: I'd like to see how these results all end up
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: and how they all come back. And hopefully it gives
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: the investigators a robust ass roadmap to use to try
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: and find the killer and bring them to justice. All right, folks,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this one. If you'd
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: like to contact me, you can do that at bobbycapucci
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I discussed can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. Now that Brian Koberger
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: has been arraigned, And a guilty plea has been entered
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: on his behalf. Now, the discussion most certainly turns to
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: what sort of evidence the prosecution has against Brian Kohlberger.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And so far, what we have seen has been very,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: very strong. And the thing that's really working against Brian
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger is it's not just one bit of damning information.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of information here that is relatively damaging
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: on its own. But when it's all tied together and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: then the bombshell, that is the knife sheath with the
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: DNA on it, is added to the other evidence, what
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: you have, in my opinion anyway, is a rock solid case.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: And I think that the prosecution is going to be
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: able to make that case at this trial and they're
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: going to be able to do it very effectively from
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: the opening statement on. And whenever there is an abundance
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: of evidence, the way that there is an abundance of
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: evidence here, it's very easy for the prosecution to put
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: together their narrative and really harpoon the defendant. When you
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: have the truth on your side, it's very easy to
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: formulate a case and formulate a strong case. Now flip
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: it around for Brian Kohlberger, and he's going to have
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: to explain a lot of things, right? Mainly how that
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: DNA of his got on that knife sheath. Now, people
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: will be out here saying, oh, somebody could have stolen
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: it from him. Okay, maybe. But did he report it
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: to the police? How do we know it was stolen?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: And if it was stolen, isn't that a pretty big
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: coincidence that somebody decides to leave it at a murder
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: scene after they murder four people? And from there, he
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: could say, well, I was set up. And then, of course,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the question is, well, who would set you up? Do
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: you have any people out there that you can point
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: us to that would be interested in setting you up
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: for these murders. And always keep in mind, if you're
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: not buying it, chances are a jury is not going
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: to buy it either because we're only going on circumstantial evidence, right?
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: The jury is going to have a lot of gruesome
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: information in front of them. The same way we saw
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the Lori Vallow trial, all of the pictures of JJ
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: and Tylee after they were exhumed. And it's going to
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: be emotional. What, you don't think there's going to be
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: pictures shown during this trial of these kids massacred? They're
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: going to show those pictures, and it's going to be gruesome.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And Brian Kohlberger and his team better have better excuses
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: than somebody stole the sheath and left it at the
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: crime scene. Today's article is from Newsweek, and the headline,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger's DNA on knife sheath is surefire evidence, according
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: to a criminologist. This article was authored by Kalita Rockman.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger's DNA on a knife sheath found at the
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: home where four University of Idaho students were murdered is
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: surefire evidence against him, according to a criminologist. Koberger, 28,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: is accused of breaking into a rental home near the
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: university campus in the early hours of November 13th and
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: fatally stabbing Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Zanna Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: At the time, he was a graduate student studying criminology
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: at nearby Washington State University. And she's not wrong. That
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: is certainly surefire evidence. If you have your DNA on
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: the sheath of a knife that was used to murder somebody, yeah,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: chances are you're going to be the person that they're
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: looking for. And we all know how strong this DNA
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: evidence is. Now, one thing I will say that the
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: defense is going to look at is chain of custody.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Was the chain of custody respected? Was everything signed out correctly?
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: Was everything, you know, the I's dotted and the T's crossed?
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Because if not, they'll look for a technicality here to
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: try and get their client off. He was arrested at
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: his parents' home in Pennsylvania in late December. Police pieced
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: together DNA evidence, cell phone data, and surveillance video to
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: connect Kohlberger to the crime. According to a probable cause
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: affidavit unsealed, in early January. And everything that they talk
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: about in that affidavit is enhanced by the fact that
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: this sheath was found with his DNA on it. If
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: they didn't have that DNA, this case would not be
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: nowhere near as strong as it is. After being indicted
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: by a grand jury last week, Koberger declined to enter
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: pleas during his arraignment on Monday. His defense attorney, Ann Taylor,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: told the judge that they were going to stand silent
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: at this time. Not guilty, please. The four counts of
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: first degree murder and one count of burglary were entered
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: on Kohlberger's behalf. And there's a lot that goes into that, right?
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of strategy there. There's a lot of
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: courtroom maneuvering. And Brian Kohlberger's defense team thought that it
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: would be a good idea to have the judge enter
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: the plea on his behalf rather than have Brian Kohlberger
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: do it for himself. And it leaves them a little
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: bit of wiggle room as far as legally, but it
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: doesn't really do much for Brian Koberger, especially because I
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: don't ever see this turning into something that's a competency
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: issue like we saw with Lori Vallow. I don't think
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Brian Koberger would allow his legal team to pursue something
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: like that, saying that he's crazy and that he's not
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: competent enough to stand trial with the sort of personality
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: that Brian Koberger has. I highly doubt that's a path
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: that he's going to travel. Kohlberger's trial is currently scheduled
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: to begin on October 2nd. Latah County Prosecutor Bill Thompson
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: has 60 days from the arraignment to inform the court
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: whether he will seek the death penalty in the case.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: And again, I don't see how they don't seek the
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: death penalty here. What's the point of having that law
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: on the books if you're not going to seek it
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: in a case like this? Especially considering once again, that
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: we have that DNA on the knife sheath. And Lord
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: knows what other DNA has been found. Remember, that's all
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: we know about. All that's been made public is the
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: DNA on the knife sheath. There could be a plethora.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: of other DNA that they collected at the scene, off
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: the bodies, hell, off a Koberger's car, wherever. So imagine
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: if they have that in reserve as well, how bad
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: it's going to be for Brian Koberger when all the
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: chips are put to the center of the table and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: the jury gets a good look. Because I'll tell you,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: we've seen people get convicted on the strength of the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: evidence that has been collected here alone. We have seen
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: convictions before that have been based on their digital movements,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: based on a recreation. And then you add the DNA
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to it and forget it. This guy is done for.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: And as far as the date that has been set,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: October 2nd, I'm not too sure if we'll get that date.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: I think that we'll probably see some kind of postponement
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: or delay here, but hopefully it gets expedited and this
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: thing gets started. According to criminologist Debbie Goodman, the DNA
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: evidence in the case is strong and believes it will
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: be a focus... Of Kohlberger's trial. No doubt about that. 100%.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: The DNA is going to be a major cog here.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: And it's going to be what sends Brian Kohlberger to prison.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: When all is said and done. I have to think
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: that there's more DNA. That has been collected. Considering how
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: gruesome the crime scene was. According to the officers. Who arrived.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: According to the medical examiner. You mean to tell me.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: There was no transferred DNA. Anywhere on Brian Kohlberger. I
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: have a hard time believing that. Now, maybe he took
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: some kind of steps to prevent it, but even the
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: most minuscule particle can be found by these investigators. So
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: chances are they found other DNA evidence that's going to
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: bolster what they've already shown us. Indeed, this is surefire evidence,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: she said during an appearance on News Nation. Traces of
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: DNA from a lone male were on the button of
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: a leather knife sheath found in the home where the
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: victims were killed, according to the affidavit written by Brett Payne,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: a police corporal in Moscow. Investigators later closely matched the
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: DNA on the sheath to DNA found in trash taken
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: from Brian Kohlberger's parents' home in Pennsylvania. We have in
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: our field something very, very important when it comes to
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: murder cases such as this. It's genetic genealogy, Goodman said,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: and it's something that they utilize very efficiently. and it
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: has proven to be very, very effective. What that means is,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: each of us has our own composition compilation of saliva, fluid, blood, print,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: and the fact that we have this knife sheath, we
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: are now able to take that, and our investigators have
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: done a tremendous job here, local, state, and federal, whereby
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: they have aligned the composition of what's on that knife
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: sheath with trash that has been discarded in the family
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: home of the Kohlbergers, and there is alignment. So that,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I believe, as a criminologist, is going to be a
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: central feature in this case. Well, for sure, that sheath
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: was found at the scene of the crime next to
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Madison Mogan's body. How did Brian Kohlberger's DNA get on
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: that sheath? That's the question that everybody who thinks he's
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: innocent has to answer. And so far, I haven't seen
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: one logical train of thought about that yet. Not one
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: person coming forward saying, with a convincing argument as to
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: why Brian Kohlberger is innocent here. However, Duncan Levin, a
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, previously told Newsweek that the evidence that
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: led to Kohlberger's arrest isn't indisputable. That's true, it's not. Unless,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: of course, they have other DNA evidence that we're not
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: aware of, and I really think that they do. But
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: say they don't. Say they have no other DNA evidence
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: that they found. The evidence that they still have is
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: strong as hell, and the fact that that sheath was
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: found at the crime scene with his DNA on it
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: is going to have to be explained to the jurors,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: and I have no idea how Ann Taylor, Brian Kohlberger,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: or anybody else, living or dead, could come up with
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: a plausible explanation. The DNA on the knife sheath is
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: not irrefutable proof of anything, since it does not put
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: him in the house at the time of the murders,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: Levin said. Well, That's true, but explain it to the jurors.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: You see, that's all fine and well when you make
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: those statements on TV or you post something like that
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: on the internet. The fact is, the jurors need explanations.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: And if you don't have a logical explanation for why
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: that knife sheath is at that house with all of
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: the other evidence they already have, you are going to
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: be found guilty. DNA and cell phone evidence can be
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: very technical and subject to cross-examination, he added. Well, of course,
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: everything is subject to cross-examination. But if you're not working
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: with anything, as far as the truth goes, it's very
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: hard for a defense attorney to put together a tangible defense.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: And I think that's where we're at here. I don't
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: think Ann Taylor or anybody else is going to be
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: able to put up a tangible defense that's going to
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: convince 12 jurors that Brian Kohlberger is not the man
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: who killed these kids. All right, folks, that's going to
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: do it for this one. All of the information that
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: goes with the episode can be found in the description box.