Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / The Price of Music Stardom: Is it Worth What You Risk Losing? [Episode 269]

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The Price of Music Stardom: Is it Worth What You Risk Losing? [Episode 269] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: In this episode of Booked on Rock, the story of
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: a young man chasing his dreams amid turbulent times. After
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  Speaker 1: losing his girlfriend, his band, and his best friend, he
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  Speaker 1: has to decide is chasing his dream worth the cost.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: That's coming up next with author and musician Peter McDade,
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  Speaker 1: We're totally rock and roll.
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  Speaker 2: I think I'll leave you.
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  Speaker 3: You're reading Little Hands says it's time to rock and
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  Speaker 3: roll roll.
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  Speaker 1: I totally booked. Welcome back to Booked on Rock and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Eric Senach. Our guest this episode is Peter McDade. He
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: is the author of King Cal Welcome to the podcast.
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  Speaker 4: Peter, Thank you, thank you for having me.
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  Speaker 1: There's also a soundtrack to this book, which we'll cover,
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  Speaker 1: but let's start with the book. The promo states, quote,
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  Speaker 1: many novels set in the world of rock music depict stardom,
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  Speaker 1: debauchery and deceit. King Call instead focuses on the creative process,
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  Speaker 1: the devotion required to choose an uncertain life in music,
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  Speaker 1: the inspiration for songwriting, and the challenge of making the
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  Speaker 1: rent while making art. So let's start off with what
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  Speaker 1: inspired this book, which is a classic book, that is,
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  Speaker 1: it's actually about to turn one hundred. This particular book,
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  Speaker 1: this story is inspired by the Virginia Wolf book from
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  Speaker 1: nineteen twenty five, Missus Dallaway. I'm very interested in hearing
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  Speaker 1: about this for those not familiar with that book. By
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  Speaker 1: the way, what is it about and how does it
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  Speaker 1: connect with this book?
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  Speaker 3: King cal I had never read Virginia Wolf. I was
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  Speaker 3: an English major in college, and I did my best
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  Speaker 3: to avoid Virginia Wolf because I had this idea she
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  Speaker 3: was very stuffy. But during the COVID lockdown, I was
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  Speaker 3: in I think three hundred online book groups just as
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  Speaker 3: a way to maintain my sanity, and some of them
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  Speaker 3: wanted to read Missus Dollaway and I loved it. It's
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  Speaker 3: funnier than I expected. And it's all one day in
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  Speaker 3: the life of this woman. And what you see over
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  Speaker 3: the course of the day is how her past is
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  Speaker 3: always with her, Like she's walking around and she's shopping.
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  Speaker 3: She's not doing anything too dramatic, but those thoughts from
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  Speaker 3: the pastor with her all day long.
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  Speaker 4: But she's also very wealthy.
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  Speaker 3: Like the big crisis is her dress is ripped and
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  Speaker 3: she's got a party that night, and will the maid
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  Speaker 3: fix it in time?
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  Speaker 4: There's no stressors of money.
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  Speaker 3: And so we talked about the book in the Zoom
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  Speaker 3: group and I said, I'd love to read a book
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  Speaker 3: like this just one day, but in the life of
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  Speaker 3: somebody for whom money is a big deal, like literally
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  Speaker 3: having enough money to get home would actually be a challenge.
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  Speaker 3: And having served the fast food career myself for a
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  Speaker 3: few years, I thought, like, some fast food guy, he's
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  Speaker 3: got to work, and it's twenty four hours in his life.
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  Speaker 3: So I'll begin and end with his first order in
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  Speaker 3: the drive through.
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  Speaker 4: And that's all I had. And then from there I wanted.
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  Speaker 3: To see who he I had to figure out who
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  Speaker 3: he was and what was he doing the rest of
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  Speaker 3: the time that made him willing to work a fast
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  Speaker 3: food job.
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  Speaker 1: It's a story of fiction, but it's most certainly rooted
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  Speaker 1: in reality, and it's clearly hit home with those musicians
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  Speaker 1: who know what it's like to pursue a dream as
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  Speaker 1: a musician. Among them Elliot Easton, the Cars who praised
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  Speaker 1: the book, who, by the way, makes he makes an
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  Speaker 1: appearance in this book. I like that story. We'll get
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  Speaker 1: to that one. Dan Wilson, the Grammy winning singer and
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  Speaker 1: songwriter of Semi Sonic who wrote the song Closing Time,
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  Speaker 1: says quote King Cal's a glorious and gripping story of
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  Speaker 1: the early days of a musician's life, that uncertain, chaotic
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  Speaker 1: time when a young dreamer begins to transform into an artist.
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  Speaker 1: I've never read a more accurate or emotionally affecting portrayal
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  Speaker 1: of that transformation. Warmth, humor, sadness, grihyme, joy, feeling broken,
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  Speaker 1: being broke. Through all the mix, you have lived the
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  Speaker 1: life of the main character in this book, Calvin, tell
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  Speaker 1: us about your background as a musician.
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  Speaker 3: In ninth grade, I joined a band with my three
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  Speaker 3: best friends, and we graduated high school in New Jersey
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  Speaker 3: and moved down to Atlanta to be big rock stars.
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  Speaker 3: I mean up until my early thirties. It's what we did.
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  Speaker 3: Everything was sacrifice for the band. We put out seven records.
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  Speaker 3: We made it onto a major label, we got dropped
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  Speaker 3: from the major label. We made it onto another major label,
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  Speaker 3: and we got dropped from the major label.
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  Speaker 1: What were the labels?
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  Speaker 3: By the way, we got signed to Atlantic Records and
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  Speaker 3: we put out one with Atlantic, and then you know,
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  Speaker 3: this is back when every indie band. This is like
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  Speaker 3: the birth of modern rock. Going from college to those
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: modern rock stations K Rock and here Atlanta designing Max.
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  Speaker 4: It became big money.
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  Speaker 3: Pearl Jam and Nirvana had broken and labels were looking
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  Speaker 3: for college bands. The good news is they were signing
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  Speaker 3: a lot of them. The bad news is they were
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  Speaker 3: signing a lot of them. And the method is we
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: throw it all out there and we see which ones
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  Speaker 3: take off. So we got signed to Atlantic, and then
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  Speaker 3: they didn't pick up the option for the second record,
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  Speaker 3: and so then we got signed to Sony. Our producer
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  Speaker 3: at the time got an imprint with Sony. He signed
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  Speaker 3: us put out a record with Sony. In retrospect, these
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  Speaker 3: records did well, but the model is such that unless
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  Speaker 3: you're selling hundreds of thousands of copies, there's no way
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  Speaker 3: to for the label to consider you worth it.
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  Speaker 1: Sure at that time, yeah, much different now, but at
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  Speaker 1: that time.
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  Speaker 4: It's different now.
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  Speaker 3: And the model, like I watched a band like Wilco
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  Speaker 3: right who now operates outside of the label machine altogether.
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  Speaker 3: You know, they have their own imprint, they get distribution,
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  Speaker 3: they sell X number of copies. It's not platinum or anything,
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  Speaker 3: but it's enough that they're making money and they're touring
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  Speaker 3: and it's a new model that is working a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Was the name of the band, King Cal.
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  Speaker 3: The name of the band was Uncle Green. That was
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  Speaker 3: the band we started in ninth grade.
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  Speaker 4: King Cal. It's the name for the book.
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  Speaker 3: And I did work at Burger King for those first
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  Speaker 3: couple of years.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Interesting. So now you're still a musician, but you teach
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  Speaker 1: history to college undergrads. Tell us about how your journey
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: took you there.
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  Speaker 3: Well, when you're thirty and your band decides that it
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  Speaker 3: can no longer make it go of it after Sony
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  Speaker 3: we almost signed with MCA. The guy who was going
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  Speaker 3: to sign has got fired. You're starting all over again.
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  Speaker 4: You're thirty. We decided to move on and I went to.
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  Speaker 3: College as a thirty year old, and I got a
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  Speaker 3: degree in history in English, and then a master's in
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  Speaker 3: history and started teaching. It's not unlike being on stage,
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  Speaker 3: is what I've learned. I describe it as like I've
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  Speaker 3: got a forty five minute lecture in like a forty
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  Speaker 3: five minute set, right. You want to start with something
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  Speaker 3: exciting to kind of get them engaged. You know you're
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: going to lose a few about halfway through, and then
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  Speaker 3: he's got to end with something strong. Right to leave
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: them something to think about it.
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  Speaker 4: Sure, So I teach history, I teach drums when I
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  Speaker 4: write books.
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  Speaker 1: Did you get to open for some big acts when
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  Speaker 1: you were on those labels?
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  Speaker 4: We did? We turned a bunch with Matthew Sweet. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: back in the day.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. My sister's got a baby girl named Evangeline.
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  Speaker 1: Oh and I was telling her, I said, there's a
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  Speaker 1: song called Evangeline. Matthews sweve that song from Canada.
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  Speaker 3: Matthew Sweet Girlfriend record and the one hundred percent Fun records.
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they were huge all over the radio. So
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  Speaker 1: you're okay. He toured with Matthew Sweet.
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  Speaker 3: Toured with Matthew Sweet, We toured with Semi Sonic. We
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  Speaker 3: toured with the Black Crows for a while. The Black
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  Speaker 3: Crows started in Atlanta. They were Mister Crow's garden at
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  Speaker 3: the time and opened for us.
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  Speaker 4: At one point, which you know yet wow. We also
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  Speaker 4: beat them in whiffle ball in our front yard.
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  Speaker 1: Did you really yes?
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  Speaker 4: This before they had I don't know if you know.
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  Speaker 4: Steve Gorman is there was a drum years and he's
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  Speaker 4: on the radio now.
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  Speaker 1: So the big radio guy. Yeah, he put out a makes.
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  Speaker 3: Me had the footnote that he was not in the
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  Speaker 3: band yet when we beat them in the front yard,
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  Speaker 3: it might have been different if Steve was there, Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: driving and crying.
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  Speaker 4: Who you remember remember? Oh? Yes, These were.
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  Speaker 3: All bands that start at the same time, and you know,
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  Speaker 3: you start and you have that sense of community, and
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  Speaker 3: then some of them escaped the bubble and move out
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  Speaker 3: into the world, and lots of my really talented friends didn't.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, you just never know what's gonna which key's
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  Speaker 3: gonna be the one that unlocks it all.
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  Speaker 1: But no regrets, huh.
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  Speaker 4: I would down with some distance.
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  Speaker 3: I look back and I think, you know, I've seen
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  Speaker 3: forty six of the fifty states, and I've played all
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  Speaker 3: across the country, and I've got more stories than people
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  Speaker 3: want to hear about everything that happened, the good stuff
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  Speaker 3: and the bad stuff. And you know, now I'm hearing
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  Speaker 3: an air comfortable house, and I get to teach young
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  Speaker 3: kids drums and they get the right books.
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  Speaker 4: Really kind of hard to argue with.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, artis I had that McCartney plane right that
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: would take me from gig to gig.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm curious as to how the Black Crows
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  Speaker 1: ended up on your front lawn.
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  Speaker 3: Oh we all lived in the same in the same town,
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  Speaker 3: and we played with them a bunch because we were
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  Speaker 3: starting out at the same time.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: So they just hung out at your place, you hung
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  Speaker 1: out at their place.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, And I'm sure at some point somebody was talking
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: smack about whiffle ball and uh, probably probably Chris, the
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  Speaker 3: lead singer of the Black Crows, and probably Jeff who's
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: the guitarist, and are Uncle Green. At some point somebody
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: threw down the marker and said, let's go.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: That's a great story. Yeah, so let's get to know
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  Speaker 1: the main character, Calvin some more. Who is Calvin.
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  Speaker 3: Calvin is twenty two and was born in a small
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  Speaker 3: town in Florida. This town does exist. I was looking
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  Speaker 3: for a small town to.
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  Speaker 4: Put him in.
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  Speaker 3: And there's a town called Mayo, Florida, which is named
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: after not the condiment, but a Confederate general named Mayo,
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  Speaker 3: like fourteen hundred people. And so Calvin comes from uh
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  Speaker 3: somewhat broken home with the parents got divorced, but they
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: were never particularly happy. But he makes one best friend, Grady,
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  Speaker 3: and the two of them is just the two of
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: them begin to play music together. Grady plays guitar, Calvin
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: plays keyboards and they go from working up cover songs
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  Speaker 3: to writing their own music and they're going to go
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: to Atlanta to you know, become big rock stars.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: As you mentioned, you mentioned the Virgini Wolf connection there.
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  Speaker 1: It's laid out by it's all in one day, and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: we start off at twelve thirty five am. That's the
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  Speaker 1: first entry. So as a story moves along, it's like
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  Speaker 1: a diary and a day in the life.
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  Speaker 3: Of Yes, I really wanted that that sense to come
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  Speaker 3: across about what he has to do on a daily
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: basis in order to you know, move the ball down the.
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  Speaker 4: Field a little bit.
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  Speaker 3: So he's got to constantly be writing songs and thinking
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  Speaker 3: of songs because he's the guy in the band. He
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  Speaker 3: writes them and he's figured out that that's the key
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  Speaker 3: to the whole thing, is having enough good songs for
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: a couple of them to break out. He's got to
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: work because he needs to pay the rent and one
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: point he has to come home and he has to
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: venmo the rent money to the guy in the house
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: who's hard in charge of collecting the rent and realizes
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: he's broke, and deal with the other roommates and with Grady,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: with his bandmate, with his girlfriend like all that and
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: one day. So it's really on a surface level, it's
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: not a super exciting day. At the same time, you
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: realize how much is going through his head all the
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: time as he's trying to work all.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: This out looked on podcasts. We'll be back after this.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: The opening scene, he's working at the burger joint and
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: he's observing the customers as they come in and there's
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the guy listening to Pearl Jam and he's softly crying.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: You just got him as having buddy hollyglasses too small
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: for his head, rumpled, buttoned down shirt hanging loosely off
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: his skinny frame. Oh sad Pearl Jam fan. But Calvin
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: relates to this guy, and he also connects with the
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: co workers like Kendall. And I thought that was interesting
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: because as an artist, you're observing all the things around you.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So he's taking these stories and kind of putting it
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: into his art. I mean, that's what an artist does,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: You're observing. He's aware of this, right, This character is
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: aware of all that. Right, he starts coming up with
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: lyrics in his head throughout the day based on what
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: people are telling him and what he's seeing.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm glad that you I'm glad you see
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: it that way, because that's what I'm hoping, is like
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: to not be too overt about it. But yes, he's
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: learned to watch all the time. I mean, part of
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: it is just to keep himself entertained over the course
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: of you know, running a drive through for eight hours
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: at a fast food place. At the same time, it's
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: looking for material for songs. And I also like to
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: think that you see that he's empathizing with these people,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: even some of the people who drive him crazy or
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: some of the customers who he's on one hand sort
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: of softly mocking like oh sad pearl jam fan, at
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: the same time, like he also feels for this guy
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: because like who who comes to a burger place at
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: six in the morning like sort of crying?
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: You know, right, what's he thinking?
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: How did you get to that point?
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah? All those things are song ideas, right, And you see.
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: The course of the day, these lyrics kind of popping
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: in and out of his head and he'll be looking
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: for the rhythm to be right.
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: He'll come up with an idea and instantly.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: Realize like that that's a terrible idea because that's how
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: it works, right, You have a whole bunch of stuff,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: and you've got to begin to sort of edit yourself
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: as you go along about what's worth keeping and what
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: just needs to be tossed out the window.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: He's trying to avoid making friends with people at work
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: because he felt like that job, that job's not me.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: This is just what I do to make a living.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: But he can't help but empathize with these people.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, he's concerned with having real, real Calvin, who
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: you know, goes home. He's a musician, he's a songwriter.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: At the same time, he can't make it all eight
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: hours without actually getting some sort of connection with these people.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Melli. Trying to chase a dream as
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a musician can get complicated, especially when that musician is
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: in love. And he's in love with Melli. He's talking
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: about when he first sees her at a gig he
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: played at, which is in somebody's garage. Ye, you write
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: even more than a natural beauty in this inner glow
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: you see to have. Calvin was struck by the way
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: she moved. She danced around the large garage with ease, arms,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: drifting through space so gracefully that she appeared to be floating,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: and while she looked like she was by herself, it
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: also looked like she was dancing with everyone else all
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: at once. Calvin couldn't remember being that comfortable anywhere besides
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: hiding behind his keyboard. What becomes of their relationship and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: how does it play a role in the storyline of
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: this book.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: I mean that moment when he sees her, right, it's
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: he's drawn to how natural she is in the world
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: because he's never been that way, and I think he
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: never stands a chance with her. And at first she
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: does go for Grady, who is the guy who does
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: all the singing in the band, and he's got that
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: floppy hair he can kind of, you know, toss around.
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: But as they talk and as she gets to know him,
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: he begins to stand a chance with Melie. And as
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: the book opened, she's no longer with Grady. They've been
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: together for almost a year, and he has this idea
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: that the two of them can actually wind up like
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: living together, you know, like he can really make a
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: go of this. But you're right, that's another stressor on
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: the relationship. Because she has graduated college, she's got parents
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: who expect her at some point to go to grad
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: school and ideally marry like an engineer or a doctor
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: or something.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: And that is not Calvin.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: You know, He's never going to be a doctor or
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: an engineer, and he's going to struggle often to even
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: have the rent. And so it's also a stressor for
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: her because I think what draws her to Calvin is
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: this love of music, this idea that he loves something. Right,
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: I'm always drawn to people who love whatever it is
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: they love to do. It makes them so much more
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: interesting because they're engaged with the universe.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: But at the same time, the thing she loves about
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: him also means that he's he's really always going to
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: struggle for money, and she's always going to have to
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: kind of fight for a space within his head, within
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: his life with the music.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: And Grady is in a band with somebody Calvin is
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: not a fan of, and that is roddy.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: As I was saying earlier, you know, you start off
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: on the scene and you're all local bands. But if
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: somebody begins to rise, you know, to break out of
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: that scene, you're happy for them. Of course, as you
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: know you're better angel, you know, you are thrilled that
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: your friends are making it, but some small part of
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: you is also thinking like why is it them and
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: not me?
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: And especially in.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: This case because Roddy is kind of and this is
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: no offense to, you know, to front men or front people.
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: Roddy's like pure ego.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: It is really what makes at the end of the day,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: it's really what a successful front man has to be
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: right more often than not.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: It's like Eddie Van Halen called it lead Singer Disease LSD.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: At the same time.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: That he that he found somebody right who had the
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: disease who could.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: Sing his songs.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: And so Roddy is unfortunately for everybody else, he's not
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: as good as David Lee Routh or even Sammy Hagar.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: I always prefer the David Lee Roth period. So but
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: Roddy is pure ego.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: And he fronts this band called One four to three. Now,
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: somebody asked what I imagine them sounding like when I first started,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: and I kind of imagined like a blues traveler, or
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: maybe they started off like as kind of a jam
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: cover band, but they began to write their own songs
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: and Spin Doctors or yes, the Spin Doctors is very
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: good because again, no offense, the spin doctors, fans, you know,
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: whatever floats your boat. But for me, I heard that
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: first song, which of course sold like a zillion copies.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, princess, Yet, what is this?
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: And so this is how Calvin feels watching one for three.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: And they've hired Grady to be like a fill and
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: guitarist because it's one of those bands that has two
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: or three corps members and unlike two or three others
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: that happen to be whoever they've hired for whatever tour.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: And they're doing so well that they're going to be
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: playing that night, you know, the night the day the
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: book is set in at the night and they're playing
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: sold out show at the Variety Playhouse, which here in
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Atlanta's holds like twelve hundred people, Like it would be
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: your dream as a local band, selling out the Fox
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: would be too much for you to have a daydream
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: about it, but you could, like I could sell out
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: the Variety Playhouse. And so Grady is working with Roddy,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: which drives Calvin crazy.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: And there's also Alex.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: Alex is Calvin's younger sibling. Alex is born with the
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: name Alice, is six years younger than Calvin and the
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: only one in the family that Calvin ever really connected with,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: and the two of them stay in touch and text
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: and call quite frequently because Calvin has escaped, but Alice
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: is still stuck at home and Alex wants to be
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: known as Alex, and the only person he's told is
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: to is Calvin that he would prefer the him pronouns,
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: and he feels more like Alex than Alice. He doesn't
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: know yet whether that means that he's more male or
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: female or non binary, just knows that that feels right.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: And Alex is the kind of name that could be
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: either or neither. And Alex is a visual artist as
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: opposed to Calvin being a musical artist, and they are
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: kind of each other's familial life support system.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Book on rock Podcasts will be back after this.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: I remember my friend future, not just the will affect
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: you in the future.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Is Alex based on somebody real from your past?
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Alex is based on because.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I'm curious as to why that characters in this book.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: It makes it very interesting. It's it's a really complex character.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, well, I'm I'm glad you feels like that. When
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: I'm writing these books, the characters not to sound too mystical.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: The characters sort of appear like I knew Calvin was
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: picking up the phone at some point, and part of
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: my brain is like, well, I wonder who this is.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: Well, it's it's Alex.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: And that allows me to begin to see what other
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: relationships Calvin would have, And then as a writer you
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: have to figure out which ones are worthy of taking
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: up the limited space a book has. And Alex became
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: more and more important as a book went along. So
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: not based on anybody in particular, I do. I do
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: know people who have changed their name. They do know
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: people have changed their pronouns and then changed their pronouns back.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: And I guess to me, as the book went along,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: I realized that Alex was sort of searching along a
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: similar path as Calvin.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: In a way.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: Calvin changes his name later in the book when he
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: goes to start singing. He wants to be known as
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: a different name, and the two of them, I thought
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: it was I just thought it was nice to see
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: the two of them having each other that as messed
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: up as the adults in the family were, you know,
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: because the parents get divorced and they then remarry and
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: they're still unhappy, but the siblings have begun to find
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: their own family and provide that for each other.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it interesting. Peter McDade is the author of
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: the new novel titled King Cal. There's a great conversation
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Cal has with a friend's brother, Ken. Ken is a
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: He's a kick ass guitarist, let's just put it that way,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: but he can't write songs, so he put down the
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: guitar and joined the regular working world. He's encouraging Cal
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: to search deep as a songwriter, write songs that nobody
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: else can write but him. Can you talk about this
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: scene and is there a moment in your life that
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: you tapped into for this scene?
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: I thought it was really important for calve and to
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: have kind of a mentor figure, and that's what Ken
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: winds up being. Even though Ken is no longer playing.
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: There are some guys in high school, man, who you
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: watch them play, and you were like, you're walking amongst
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: the rest of us little kids, but you are the
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: real players. But you know, unless you land in that
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: band where a lead guitarist is exactly what they need
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: right to finish that sound, your options are going to
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: be limited. As you move on in the world, because
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: it is the songs at the end of the day
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: that are really going to give you a great unless
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: you're like a studio musician and they're out there and
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: they're amazing. Right now, Bernard Purty is knocking out my
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: door like, come on, man, I can play anytime, anywhere
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: with anybody. And in that scene, Ken has been following
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Calvin and Grady's songs. Their band is called Lords of
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: the Living and they're putting stuff on band Camp and
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: trying to build a following anyway they can, and Ken
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: has been watching him as watching the songs get better,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: but he wants to get Calvin to push himself even more,
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: like there is I think a sense when you're young
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: like that, and I'm no longer twenty two. I can
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: confess so I can say this. It's almost like you
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: think you've peaked, and if things are coming easy, it's
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: almost like, well, that's it, I've got it. But it's like, no,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: you know, you just need to you think you've peaked,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: but you're just getting started. And if you would put
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: an even more effort, like you think you've peaked, so
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: I'm done, right, I can just I don't need to
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: practice anymore. I got it, you know, And I look
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: back to what I was playing as a twenty two
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: year old, and like all the things I want to
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: tell myself, like slow down, practice more. Just because you
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: can play all the notes doesn't mean you should play
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: all the notes, you know. So Ken is trying to
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: get Calvin to take the songs he's writing. But then, yes,
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: that phrase of like only the songs that he can write,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: you know, because there are lots of songwriters. Okay, you've
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: made it up now to this level where you're a
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: certain kind of gifted songwriter.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: You can put pieces together.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: But this next level, that's the level only you can
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: reach because it's only the songs Calvin can write. I
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: don't know there's a particular moment in my life that
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I've had that conversation. But I think it's more cumulative
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: with fiction.
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I was writing all the time when we were in
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: the band, and I would write, I would type something
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: up and I would type it a second time, and
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: that would be revision, and I would think that I
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: was done. Right when I got older and I began
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: to workshop with other people, I realized, oh, what I
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: thought was done is like really just the crappy first draft,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: you know, and the rest of the work is going
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: to come much later. It's almost like, maybe I wish
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: I'd had somebody twenty two come along and tell me, like,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: you can be pushing even more.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: So, you wanted a Ken, You needed a Ken to
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: come along in your life.
• 24:20
  Speaker 4: Exactly, and I feel like we've had it. We had
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: a few Kens as a band.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: I'll give a shout out to our high school music teacher,
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: Missus Spiegel, taught music theory and we were seniors and
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: maybe juniors. She found out we were in a band
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: because we were in the same high school, same grade.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: We were all taking music theory, and so she had
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: us come play one day for the rest of the class.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: She got the auditorium. We played in the class, talked about,
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: you know, wrote little critiques of the songs and everything.
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: It was great.
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: And afterwards she kept us. And actually this is a
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: moment that appears in the book. I nick this for
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: the book. I give it to Ken at a different stage.
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: She kept us and we're sitting I can still see
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: us sit in the auditorium in high school, and she says,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: so what are you going to do? And we're like, well,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: we're gonna make songs big famous rock stars. She's like, no, no, no,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: what actual, what concrete steps are you going to take
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: to make this happen? And it was the first time
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: we thought of it in those terms, like, oh, it
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: doesn't just happen. I can't just write great songs. I
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: really have to push myself even further. We can't just
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: walk outside when we graduate high school and say, okay, world.
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: You know we're here. We're ready to be famous.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: So we booked studio time, and we went and recorded
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: our first songs at the studio in Marristown, New Jersey,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: and we still have it. I was not particularly good myself.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: It was the first time I really heard a bass
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: drum recorded well, which was then the reminder of the
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: lesson was, oh, but I do on the bass drum
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: matters a lot more than I think I do. Right
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: playing in somebody's living room, No, Pa, you don't really
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: hear it all the time. And to hear how it
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: fit into the rest of the music was a revelation.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: This is where Elliott Easton comes in, right. This is
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: the He's referring to Elliet Easton as Ken is referring
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: to Elie Easton as that type of guy where amazing guitarist. Yep,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: he gets into a band where you got Benjamin Orr
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and rick O Kasik, two guys who can write songs, and.
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: He fits in perfectly in both saying.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: He helps those songs come to life. Very underrated guitarist,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: by the way, Elie Easton.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: I think I think he's brilliant, and I think the
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: songwriters knew he was brilliant because how many of those
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: songs bill perfectly to like that moment, right, I think
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: of my best friend's girl, Like when that lead comes in,
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: it's just like it's absolutely perfect. And you could argue,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: if Ken and Calvin got into a more theoretical discussion,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: you could argue that really he is writing. And maybe
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: if Calvin was older, he would have taken Kenny's side
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: and said, like that is writing, Like they would undersell yourself,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: like I think that those guitars are as important, like
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: that lead is as important as the rest of the song,
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: and in some of their later songs, God bless them,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: I feel like the leads are even better sometimes than
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: the songs that they're surrounded by. But that's what Ken needed.
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: Ken needed to land with a couple of songwriters who
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: could then use him. You know, clen Burke just passed away.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: I just saw that from Blondie.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: The drummer from Blondie, And if you listen to those
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: some of those Blondie records, it's like Debbie, Harry and
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: Christine they wrote songs and I think they realized they
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: had this drummer. There's a couple of songs like Dreaming.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: I think that's just you go clem, you know, go crazy,
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: and that becomes as important as the rest of the song.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: David Hepworth, the author, recently on said drummers are the
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: thumb print of the band. Oh, I like that perfect right? Yeah,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Elie Eason, did you work work with him along the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: way or how did that?
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: No?
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: That was the miracle of King Cal It was I
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: didn't even know that we were shooting for Elliott Easton.
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: You know when a book is getting ready, like.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: I handed this thing in eight or nine months ago
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: so that you can get the lee time, you can
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: put it together, and then there's this thing where you
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: try to get blurb, so basically you're trying to get
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: people to read the book, to say a few words.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Ira Robbins, who runs Trouser Press Books, which was born
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: out of Trouser Press magazine, which was back in the
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: seventies and eighties and I think got into the nineties.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: He didn't even tell me, but he happened to have
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Elliott Easton's email, and he sent Elliott the book just
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: like out of the blue, like here's a book. It's
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: about a musician, and Elliott was kind enough to read
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: it and sent along this blurb. So I was able
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: to just get an email one day, like the header
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: was something like new blurb, exclamation point and it was
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: from Elliott Easton.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Was he already in the book? Or did you put him.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: In the book? And that's what the Trouser Press guy
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: I think, Oh, I have Elliot's email, let me send
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: him this.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: You know that's cool. Yeah, it was great booked on
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: rock podcasts. We'll be back after this, I swim.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: Make it up to you.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Friendships can be put to a serious test in the
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: music business. And I say this in reference to the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: moment towards the end of the book where Cal is
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: telling his friend Grady that he's finished songs that the
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: two had started writing together. He figured Cal was going
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: to wait until Grady returns from the road with Roddy's
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: band Lord of the Living. Talk about this scene, and again,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: are you tapping into some real life experiences for this one?
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: I was in that band.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: I like to say I'm still in that band because
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: we never officially broke up, and I still talk to
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: them all the time since I was fourteen, right, So
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to do the math now, but multiple decades,
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: and so there are multiple stories and all those stretches
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: where you are like four fingers of one hand, like
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: the his unit, and then there's that week where you
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: won't even talk to one of them because like you
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: were just over it, like forget it in this moment.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: It was the way the band worked was Calvin would
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: write music, but he had trouble writing the melodies, so
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Grady would write the melodies for the songs, for the
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: vocal lines, and then Calvin would use those melodies to
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: write some words.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: But Grady was that.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Missing component write that vocal line to be woven through
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: the songs, and so no song could be finished without Grady.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: But then he was gone, and he was supposed to
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: be four weeks and it turned into four months and
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Calvin realizes that his Calvin's own mental health at this point,
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: needs to keep writing songs like that's what he without it.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: At this point, it's so ingrained that he feels like
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: he's walking backwards. So he finishes some songs. And I
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: don't think he intended to even tell Grady. In fact,
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: he knows it's gonna happen at some point. But part
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: of the tension earlier in the book is like, when
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: am I going to tell people about these songs? But
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: it's that moment where they're beginning to kind of cut
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: a little light at each other, and it's something Calvin
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: needs to reveal, almost defend himself to Grady, maybe unaware
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: of how much it would hurt Grady. And maybe it's
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: a moment where Grady realizes how hurt he would be
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: at the idea of Calvin moving on without him. Again,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: they're twenty two, right, so it's hard to imagine future
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: things happening, I think at that age. So then when
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: they happen, you're caught off guard and not really aware,
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: not really sure about what to do with all this
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: stuff that you're thinking about because you're standing there with
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: your best friend, but realizing that there might be some
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: turns here that are being taken that you hadn't planned on.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: And cal has offered a gig to go on the
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: road with Lord of the Living, but he doesn't want
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: to take the offer. This leads to an argument he
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: has with his girlfriend Mellie. Why doesn't he want the gig?
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: And what is Mellie's stance?
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Calvin is all about his song, right, I mean he's
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: really taken. You were right to point at that scene
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: with Ken earlier. He's really kind of trying to tap
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: into that idea Ken gave him, like this only songs?
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: What songs can only I Calvin Wright. He doesn't like
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: the band, he doesn't like the music. I think also
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: he has this problem with the idea that Roddy, the
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: lead singer, would be basically his employer. Right, would you
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: rather have your check cut by Burger Buddies Incorporated, the
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: fast food chain or Roddy the egotistical lead singer.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: You might think that the lead singer, well, at least
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: you're in.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: The music world, right and you're still doing that, but
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: you're having to having to sell this thing that you
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: love to do to somebody who's going to do something
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: with it you don't like necessarily, so he would prefer
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: the job where he doesn't have to think about anything
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: else all day long. But there's also this idea that
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: he is writing these songs without Grady and he is
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: as low as he might be to say it out
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: loud to Grady. He is finding that rewarding right metaphorically
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: and literally beginning to find his voice and what that
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: means to what he.
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: Actually might want.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: And Melly is confused about why you would turn down
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: money to go play music.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Right, I was gonna say this is this is art
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: versus business. It's the music business. So he's got to decide.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: He's got to decide, because you have to balance the two.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: If you do want to make this your career, it's
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: got to be some of those decisions that you have
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: to make. So she's looking at the business. She's saying,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: this is a smart move business wise. Take it. Put
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: some money in your pocket, and which is actually pretty
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: cool on her behalf because he's going to be on
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the road. So she's saying, don't worry about that.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that we can use this money you'll make and
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: you'll come back right, We'll get an apartment.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: She's thinking future and we'll move.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: On to the next steps. But he's thinking about six
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: months of using your again. It's how much bandwidth do
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: you have?
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Right? And when you're twenty two, six months seems like
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: a long time. Six months.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: You might be telling the kid it's like thirty years.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like six minutes right now.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: Jeez, yeah, you know.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: But when you're trying to write a couple of songs
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: a week or a song a day, six months, there's
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: is a long time. At my age, I'm much more
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: of the attitude of, like, you can do anything for
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: six months, right. If I'm going to get X at
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: the end of that, I'll suck it up and I'll
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: do whatever I need to for six months. But he's
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: twenty two, and he's also I think he's beginning to
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: realize all the number of decisions we have to make
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: right rolling through high school, there aren't when you think
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: about it, aren't really that many big life changing decisions
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: you have to make, because aside from whether or not
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: you're going to go to geometry that day, like it's
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: it's pretty laid out.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: For you, or am I gonna ask that girl out?
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: Yes? Exactly?
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Is this the day, am I gonna am I gonna
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: spend the money I barely have on this guitar amp?
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: Well for me, you know what's gonna be for me?
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: It was which which two cassettes am I going to
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: buy this week? With the money I made? It was
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: always two's. I bought it in twos. I'd have just
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: enough for two cassettes.
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: See, I was a Vinyl guy.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: But yes, Vinyl has enough money for one big decisions.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so he's got to make these big decisions,
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: and he's realizing right that there's no one else there
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: to make them.
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: It's a good news bad news.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: You spend your whole high school career wishing you could
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: make the decisions and do the thing, and you finally
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: get to make them, and then you realize, oh, rap,
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: like that means I've actually got to make all the
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: decisions and do all the things.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: So what does cal decide to do? We will leave
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: that for those to read and find out. We cannot
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: reveal that. But my question to you then is, Peters,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: is there a simple answer to knowing when to decide
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: if you're going to continue to pursue your passion or
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: decide to make a decision like you did go to school,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: get yourself a good job, because that's a really difficult
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: decision to make to put that behind you. I think
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: when you hit your thirties, I think it'll happen more
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: likely at that point. But there's really no what's the
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: word I'm looking for? Equation or there's no simple answer. Yeah,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: there's no there, it's a feeling that you have.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Maybe Yeah, I like the idea of an equation. There's
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: no formally where you can plug it in, like you know,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: formulae of years and I've made Y number of dollars
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: and I have you know, Z number of options left?
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Like it's it's a hunch thing. I mean for the
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: four of us.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: After the MCA deal fell through, we all met at
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: a coffee shop and the question was pretty straightforward, for
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: whom amongst the four of us, is the band still
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: the thing?
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: Like is it the thing you sacrifice all other things for? Right?
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: That's the moment Calvin's having, without realizing it was hitting
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: them already in that parking lot, like I'm all this
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: other stuff for my songs, Like am I still ready
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: to sacrifice everything else? Thirty in a coffee shop and
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: you've been through a couple of major label deals already.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: I think somebody's wife was pregnant. Like it's do you
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: have it in you? Maybe that's maybe the formula is
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: as simple as that, do I have it in me?
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: To hop back into a van and basically start all over?
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, we never made it to the bus level
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: of rock life, but we made it to like the roadies,
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: two roadies and an extra long van and a trailer,
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: so like I had my own bench, like that was,
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: I had my own bench and a guy who set
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: up my drums. You know, you're living large, four of
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: us in a van wanting to get back out there
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: and start all over again. That's tough, I mean, And
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: it's not to say that if the four of us
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: had made the other choice, who knows what would have happened.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: And that's not to say those guys would have been wrong.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: I guess a large part of it too. Like all
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: these decisions we're talking about, you have to be able
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: to make it and then really be at peace with
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: whatever it is you decided. Maybe not immediately, but at
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: some point you're gonna have to be okay with not
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: rolling the dice one more time.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: You talk about there's no simple formula. Some will say
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it's best to not have a backup plan, But then
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: you look at somebody like Tom Schultz of Boston who
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: went to you go to MIT or whatever. You know,
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of these guys that do have a backup
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: plan and they still make it. There are guys that
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: don't have a backup plan, so you would think there's
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: the drive there, it's all or nothing, but they don't
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: make it.
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: But they don't make it.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's no single there's no single right answer.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not going to pass judgment on people
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: who keep at it right. You know, you see the
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: guys in you know, forty five or fifty and still
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: thinking they're gonna make it make Maybe they will, I
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: don't know. I guess part of it is is being
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: at peace for the decision and also do you enjoy
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: the process right right? Like for me and novels, I
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: don't want to break anybody's bubble, but I am not
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: going to make a million bucks off King cal and
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: my friends who are more successful novelists. Very few of
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: them actually have a career off that you're teaching or
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: you're doing something else to fill in the gaps. But
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: so why you're writing. You're writing because stories to tell.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: You're writing because you like to write, and because I
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: still enjoy the process right the challenge now of getting
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: the pacing right, of getting a scene just right, of
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: revising to figure out which paragraph you can kill. You know,
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: it only took me twenty years to realize, if a
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: paragraph isn't working, try just taking it away, and maybe
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: that's the answer. Lessons from recording right, You're killing yourself
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: trying to get this one bridge right of this song,
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: and then you realize, huh, maybe the.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: Bridge is just not very good. Maybe we need a
• 39:59
  Speaker 4: new bridge, or we just cut it and suddenly everything's better.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: So you still love the process.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: I love the process. Yeah, still love recording.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: I have friends who again we're back to where we started,
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: where technology has changed so much. I've got four microphones
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: and I can get decent sounds, especially if there's somebody
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: really good at mixing on the other end. And I've
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: got friends who make records, you know, they record them
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: a bit at a time. They say me an MP three,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: I play along and send it back. We're keeping our
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: brains going and we're getting stuff out there in the world.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: I think about like Rodney Dangerfield was like in his
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: sixties when he all of a sudden makes it big
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: as a comedian. There are those stories of somebody who
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: can make it later in life. Yeah, there's no right
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: or wrong. I think that's that's the answer, and I
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: think are also we're in a great age now where
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: if you do have a creative outlet, there are things
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: that you can do now you have access to You
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: can go on YouTube and play the music there. Yep,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: you could band camp. You know, there are places that
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: you could. Because that wasn't the case always. You didn't
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: have places you had to go.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: You had start.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: You had to hope for a record label to sign you.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: That was there was that back then. There was one formula.
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: You're an indie band. You try to we release the
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: record first on our own. Then we had an indie
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: record label here in town. But you're just trying to
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: get that major label deal, thinking that that's going to
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: do it, and really that just starts.
• 41:24
  Speaker 4: A whole new clock running of a whole new series
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: of steps you have to go through in order to
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: make it.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: That's why I enjoy this book. One of the the
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: reasons I enjoy the book is because it does it
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: gets that whole thought process going in my head again
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: of art versus commerce. When is it time to stop
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: pursuing your dreams. It's something I can relate to as
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: a broadcast, or it's something I could never get out
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: of my system. So I have a nine to five job,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: but when I come home at night, I do this.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: And I love it in here because you love the process.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Probably break even at the end of the month with
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: what I take in.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: You cost expectations, right, but you're leaving behind a body
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: of work. You're leaving behind all these episodes. Yes, today
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: I was listening to the David Bowie episode which I
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: missed earlier on Oh yeah, you know, and I never
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: really thought it was not a tin machine fan. I
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: kind of checked out of that whole period. But then
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: seen in the arc, right, we've got this hour long
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: discussion now taking Bowie from the peak of let's dance
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: to the various ways he's trying to struggle. Then boom,
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, they're at the end. He makes
• 42:27
  Speaker 3: these two amazing records at the end, right, and you
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: look back and now we can see that whole story.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, absolutely, that's all fascinating to me. But there's
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: another example. There's somebody who was like David Bowie had
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: the fame, had the fortune. Now why is he still
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: doing it? Because he loves it?
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: Because he loves it?
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Right, That's that's the big thing with a lot of
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: these artists who will say, well, why bother making an
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: album if it's if you're not going to make any
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: money off of it because of streaming services. Well, if
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: you love it, yeah, you got fans, they're gonna want
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: to hear it.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: And looking for other ways to other measures of your
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: the success brama. We all have like what a certain
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: like successful thing is, Like I have in my mind, Well,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: a successful book is, and it's not sales is First
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: of all, do I feel it's complete when I look
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: at it, when I read it for the eight million
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: times we're reading looking for any missing comma or whatever
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: it is? And then do I feel like it's connecting
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: with anybody?
• 43:27
  Speaker 4: You know, three people?
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: If it hits with the mark with three people, like,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: well that's the success. And even just from this conversation,
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: I can see that it it worked.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: For you, It worked, Yeah, like what more?
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: What more?
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Can I possibly want, Like I took this imaginary kid
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: in my head inspired by a zoom discussion of some
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: book that's one hundred years old, and it leads us
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: to this discussion of modern art and modern commerce and
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: what creative people go through in order to make this
• 43:59
  Speaker 3: thing right.
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: That's yeah.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you one last comment on this and then
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the soundtrack. But I
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: just finished reading a book Sean Egan wrote on Bob
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Dylan called Decade of the Scent, covers his music in
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: the sixties and how influential is putting it lightly that
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: music was and how it how it changed the world.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's in the title of the book, and
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: you talk about writing music that's individual to you. I
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: mean that guy Dylan. I'm endlessly fascinated with that guy
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: more and more as I get older. Are you Dylan fan?
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: I am?
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: And especially like it's one of those It's not like
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: David Boye when now you have a large arc here,
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: so you have this whole story of like all the
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: periods he goes.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Oh turns, and the things that just following his mus
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: just throughout the.
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: Decades, the occasional like out of left Field Home runs
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: like I don't feel like Infidels, but I love that record.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, that's that's mid eighties.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: I think.
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Okraman is the first track on that song, and
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden it begins like what that's.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Got Neighborhood Bully? Right, Neighborhood Bully is on there, Yeah, which.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: I lost Sweetheart like You.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an amazing record, and so, yeah, Dylan is
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: writing songs only Dylan can write, and some of them
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: are better than others.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then but then why does he decide to
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: change his vocal style on the album with lay Lady
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Lay Well? All of a sudden, he's.
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: A coroner's it's something that he I'm fascinated, you know,
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: and it There are probably a gazillion other things he
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: tried that didn't work as well that we'll never know about.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: But yeah, went in the studio one day and he
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: tried that and it worked well.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: They're talking. He talks about Shohn Egan talks in that
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: book about that period where he was making demos with
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: the band, you know, in the basement of the Pink House. Yeah, yeah,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: Big Pink, Big Pink, and they just were circulating and
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: then they finally got released, and the mystery there was
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: what was he doing? Was he planning on something? Was
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: he gonna was he actually going to release something with
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: this man? It was it just him jamming with these guys.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Who knows?
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: It's probably all the above, right, I mean, at that point,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: he's like, well, there's something else out there, you know,
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: and I'm going to search for it. You know, I'm
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: searching for the next book idea. You're searching for good
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: books that will work on the podcast, Like you know,
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: we're all out there gobbling stuff up. And that's why
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: I love people who love to do something, whatever the
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: thing is, because you know they're out there finding stuff.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: And everybody's got a passion for something. So just do it.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: Whether it's full time, part time, once a week, twice
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: a week, whatever, just do it. Bo podcasts. We'll be
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: back after this.
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: Don't go away, gentlemen.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: We may need.
• 46:42
  Speaker 6: All of you.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Soundtrack to the book. There are songs by Lords of
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: the Living can Cal and one four three. Tell us
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: about the songs on the album? Are they all written
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: by you? All performed by you?
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: Well, I just write the words, so I outsourced the music.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: I have luckily a whole stable of very indulgent and
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: up for anything friends.
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: So my first book.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: In twenty seventeen was called The Waight of Sound, and
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: this will lead to this soundtrack. This is my third book,
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: and each one has a soundtrack. The first book was
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: about a band Shocker, and they had this one song
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: that popped up in a couple of chapters and was
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: called Guardina, and all I had was a couple of lines,
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: but I thought it would be fun for the reader
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: to be able to hear the song. So my friend Jeff,
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: who I mentioned earlier, is probably leading to the wiffleball game.
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: I met Jeff in third grade and he was an
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: uncle green and still he lives ten minutes from me now.
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: So I sent him an email like, would you want
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: to write the music or a fictional band a soundtrack
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: for a book that may not even come out because
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: I didn't even know where the book was going to
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: go and you need that friend, who two minutes.
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Later writes back like, yes, yeah, so.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: The music and I wrote the words and we recorded.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: It was so fun that we did a whole bunch
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: for that book. I swore I wouldn't do soundtrack for
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: the second book, but then I did this one. I
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: knew there'd be a soundtrack going in because I knew
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: once I saw who Calvin was, I knew how important
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: the songs were to him. So there's nine songs on
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: a soundtrack. Seven of them are all written by my friend.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: The music is written by Chris Hauk, who lives in California,
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: and he's a guy who just he has a job,
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: and he has a full time job, and then he
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: comes home when he puts out records under the name
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: Norway House. And I played drums for him on a
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: bunch of stuff. And Calvin is what I consider like
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: a bedroom pop guy, so he's recording everything in his bedroom.
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: You've got a laptop, you've got a few mics, maybe
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: one real guitar amp. But then you use you're triggering
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: drums and everything off your keyboard. And I asked christ
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: if he would write a song or two because I
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: needed people who.
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: Specialized in this. That's how he records.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: Luckily, he's the kind of friend He's like, yeah, songs
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: do you need Well, I might need like six, and
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: he said sure, he ran up with seven, so he
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: would write the music.
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: I would have a title, a chorus.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: And the way he writes his music is he writes
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: the and this comes up in the book too. For
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: the melodies, he just baba boss it. David Byrne called it,
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: speaking in tongues right like placeholder exactly about the lyrics,
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: the sounds. And then I would the verse pieces I had.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: I would shape to mix the fifth the melody he had.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: So he wrote seven, and then I needed two songs
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: for one, four three because they play at the end
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: of Calvin's night right that he goes to see Grady
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: play this show. And this was a tricky assignment. I mean,
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: Chris's assignment was tricky too, Like, go write six songs
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: and I think they kind of sound like this. I
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: asked my friend Jeff to write the music for these.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Calvin hates this band, but I wanted the reader, when
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: they hear the songs to understand how the band could
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: have become successful. So they've got to be good. They've
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: also in some ways slightly annoying to people. So they've
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: got this. They're big hit of the song about beer.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: You know, my dear friend mister.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Heinegans and Jeff, and it's a good song.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: It's a good song exactly.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: You can't help, but like it.
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: You can't help but like it.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: But I'm going to be playing these twenty.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: Two with his artistic Maravel would be like, it's it's
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: a something about beer, end of.
• 50:35
  Speaker 6: A long day, end of a long week. God, nothing
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: to say but Jon to speak, No Johny just sweek
• 50:56
  Speaker 6: June and Me, we're his clothes, Pasky bitter sweet till
• 51:04
  Speaker 6: the bitter.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Sorry in my glassing you my friend.
• 51:14
  Speaker 6: Mister k.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: But he closed the show every night, and then when
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: he's watching them play, he also hears them do a
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: new song that he has to concede is actually good.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: It's called almost Time to Fall in Love. So but Jeff,
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: I'm like, well the other song, here's the words. Not
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: that Jeff doesn't always write good songs, but they're like
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: this one needs to be good, you know, like it
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: needs to sound like the same band, but also.
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: Being a little not about beer. And so that's how
• 51:47
  Speaker 4: that one came out.
• 51:49
  Speaker 6: I make mistakes all of my days.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: And I regret things that.
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: I say.
• 52:02
  Speaker 6: Life Kiri, that's no sing new and then shakes up Bond,
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: shakes up.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Now and stop.
• 52:26
  Speaker 6: Down my God.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Digital Meltdown that's credited to Lords.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Of the Living in the book, it's actually a I mean,
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: they're all like I think, they're all important songs, but
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: it's it's a big moment in the book where Rady
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: wants a new clothing song, right, So it needs to
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: be that song that you play at the end of
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: the set. They're still mostly opening, so when you're an opener,
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: you end with your best song so that the crowd,
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: the peak crowd sees you because they're there to see
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: the headliners. So when you start there's usually very few people.
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: By the time you as the opener, the crowd is
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: much bigger because the headline is about to go on.
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: So Grady wants this new song, and it has to
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: be upbeat, you know, it has to be something that
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: everyone's gonna like immediately. So that was the challenge I
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: gave to Chris, Like, you know, I didn't have the
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: title yet. I just had that one started with a
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: vibe like it needs to be something we can end
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: a set with. And then he had a title, and
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: then I wrote the words for the title, and then
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: the music and the words all fit together.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: And what's the title? Digital meltdown? What's behind the meltdown?
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: It's Calvin as only a twenty two year old ken
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: I think musing about when we really lose control of technology,
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: which is I think from my point of view, it's
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: funny that this twenty two year old thinks of it
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: that way, because base of twenty two year olds up
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: and surrounded by technology. It's like literally the air they breath,
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: and then you're born and here's your.
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: Cell phone, like off you go.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: But he's beginning to wonder what's going to happen if,
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: you know, if we really do all just become numbers
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: and we all just you know, we lose up humanity
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: kind of thing.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I'm talking to myself, dismiss it's good protoph me to
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: know what I should be there in a flopping we
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: can see it's seals warm telling us what we should
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: do it this of the cred Lentist. There's things we
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: can see, things we can think, getting your husband nonspit
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: a friends.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: And I don't know how I critical track is hearing
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Mellie breathe STI to.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: King cal We were talking earlier about when Grady goes
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: on the road, and so this is the first song
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: Calvin finishes without Grady. So it's the first time Calvin sings,
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: and his idea is that he's just gonna sing as
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: a placeholder for Grady to come and do later on.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: But he writes the words and this is also I
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: think the first song that Calvin thinks of as like
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: it's really only a song Calvin could have written, because
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: he's writing about listening to Mellie, his girlfriend, and this
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: is just the sound of her breathing and how that
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: can be enough for him. And so he sings it
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: and takes on this persona king Cow, because he's when
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: he goes in to sing it is Calvin. He can't
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: do it. He's hung up on all the baggage Calvin
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: brings to any recording. But if he pretends he's Cow, right, no,
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: not unlike Alex becoming a new name, like now I'm
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: cal So I can sing well. Then that's why there's
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: two versions of that song on the record, because he
• 55:58
  Speaker 3: has to change it to watching May Sleep because he's
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: not quite ready to come out and just have a
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: song with Melly in it.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: Ah gotcha, Okay.
• 56:07
  Speaker 4: He wants to go full John Lennon, you know, with
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: Oh Yoko, which is you know, just out there a
• 56:11
  Speaker 4: song about Yoko I'm calling it, oh Yoko, but he's like,
• 56:16
  Speaker 4: he hasn't even met Mellie's parents yet. It's like the.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Idea that they might hear, not that they ever would,
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: but he's got in his head like, what if they
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: hear this song about this creepy song about listening to
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: our daughter breathe like, so he wants to change it
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: to something else, So we hear two versions of it
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: on the soundtrack.
• 56:35
  Speaker 7: Night sounds lost and strange. She's here then gone again, somewhere.
• 56:42
  Speaker 7: I'm someone else and I'm not myself. Night turns to
• 56:47
  Speaker 7: swallow me. I don't know how to break something's falling me,
• 56:54
  Speaker 7: and I can't get free.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: Close sing.
• 57:03
  Speaker 7: A shadows that she sees well.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: One of the first ones I knew would be a
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: song was Heineken, because I before even I was writing
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: imagining Calvin's life, this idea of this kind of like
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: band whose success he's annoyed by emerged, and I'm like,
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: of course they would have a song about beer.
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: It's like the big ending song, like I imagine one four
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: three is.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: They start off as like a frat party band doing covers,
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: and slowly they start to do their own songs. But
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: what can they sing about? The sing about beer? And
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: so I asked my friend Jeff to write it, and
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: we had our friend Robbie Riss sing it. Robbie is
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: an amazing musician singer songwriter in his own right, trivial
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: known as the guy who played cousin Oliver and the
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: Brady Bunch when he was much.
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: Younger, whoa I he grew up to become.
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: Robbie rist to if you go search for Robbie rist
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: He's got amazing stuff out there, like power pop, like
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: flows through Robbie's veins, like nobody's business, and.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: You definitely remember him from from Brady Bunch.
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: And so we were looking for someone who could. Robbie's
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: brief was to sing the beer song and to really
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: go for it, but to also be able to sing
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: this other song and like a much sweeter voice. So,
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: mister Heineken, I think winds up being kind of more melancholic.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: Then I first thought of it in my head just
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: as a goofy song about beer. But that was also
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: satisfying that that as the song changes, then you can
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: go back, and you can also realize that it can
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: deepen the text as well. And so Calvin will eventually
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: have a conversation with that band's songwriter. I mean, you
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: didn't realize that two of them, while they have different
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: ends and different goals in mine, maybe are coming from
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: the same place of trying to figure out how to
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: turn their lives into music.
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: Book rock podcasts will be back after this. The King
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: Cal It's out. Now Where could people get the book?
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: In the soundtrack?
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: Actually, I'm going to send you to a couple of websites.
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: If the King Cals soundtrack is on band camp, all
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: these are on my website, which is Peter J.
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: McDade dot com.
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: Because somebody in Australia has petermcdade dot com. Oh anything
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: with it, but here I am, so I'm peterjmcdade dot com.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: They can get the soundtrack on band Camp. You can
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: also stream the soundtrack on Spotify, and the book is
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: available wherever you buy your books. I always say, like,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: if you've got a cool indie bookstore in your town,
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: you should go to it and they can order it
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: for you if they don't have it already.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: Because one thing I love doing.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: I think at this point I'm hitting ten different little
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: indie bookstores, mainly in the Southeast and it's like, I
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: love these places and they're doing really well even in
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: this megaworld, mega corporation environment. You can order it there.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: You can go to bookshop dot org, which is an
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: online site where they will portion of the sale goes
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: to indie bookstores. All these links are online my own website.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: There's also an audiobook, so any of your streaming services
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: where you want to listen to audiobooks, if that's your jam,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: and there's an ebook, I got your cut.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: You got yeah, so you do the read on the audiobook.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: No, I've learned what the outsource. And I've got a
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: friend who's also a bass player. Doesn't play on this record,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: He's played on previous records the name Tom Bowers, and
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: he's he's an amazing bass player, very melodic bass players,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: if you know what I'm talking about, Like, if you
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: give him some room to rome, it's like, all of
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: a sudden, like this new melody line has appeared. I think,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: are you an Elvis Costello fan?
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: Yes? Oh yeah?
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: His bass player Bruce Thomas, when he was with the Attractions. Anyway,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Tom became an audiobook narrator. It's his gig and so
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: he's better at much better than I would be at
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: doing the voices differently for different characters, but not being
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: over the top like ham actory, but like so you
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: know you can tell when different people are talking. There's
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: a whole art to it. And I've got lots of
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: friends who like listening to him, so we also have
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: that up for you.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: Awesome, Peter McDade, Thank you.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you for having me. H. That's it.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: It's in the books.