Latest / Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest / Stream of Consciousness #75 - Georgia Train

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Stream of Consciousness #75 - Georgia Train · Stream of Consciousness with Dan: Stories from the Midwest

0:32
SPEAKER_06: When you repair a pacified Gimme space and an empty box couldn't be further from what I mean.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Alright everyone, we are live with Stream of Consciousness with Dan.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by singer-songwriter, vocal coach, music consultant, and choir leader out of Brighton, UK, who's currently in Rye, Georgia Train.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Over the years, Georgia has built an impressive body of work as both a solo artist and collaborator, including projects with Michigan Fitzgerald, which many of you remember from a previous episode.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: She continues to help other musicians develop their own voices through coaching and mentorship.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: And somehow through all of this, she's raising a family, recently welcomed a new baby into the world, and she's been in the middle of an incredible creative chapter, releasing a run of new music and continuing to grow both as an artist and songwriter.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited to sit down with you this morning for me, this afternoon for you.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: How are you doing today, Georgia?
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: I am so thrilled to be here.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: And um more so because it's like a free hour of childcare at the moment than anything else.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's a very um early stages of having a new baby.
2:05
SPEAKER_01: The baby is five weeks old.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: This I think this is officially it's maybe like my second um hour of work having the baby.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: So this is it feels refreshing, you know.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna milk every second of this, I'm sure then.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, I guess that's I didn't even realize that pun.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Um my goodness.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh I just can't even imagine.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: And you already have three children, right?
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Before other than the new one.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is the third, okay.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: But um it's it's chaos at the moment, but it's like it's concentrated chaos.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: We had our children very close together because various infertility struggles, and you know, that whole part of the the music that I write.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, it I I think I've always been a person that's like, I'll I can do anything hard as long as I can see like the the end of it.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, so like having children close together just feels like a big extension of that part of my personality.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
3:08
SPEAKER_01: All of the young child rearing chapter done in five years, you know.
3:14
unknown: Oh, yeah.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, you're a bigger person than I am.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I could have all that on my plate.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: But uh, well, since we're talking kids, I want to learn about what you kind of looked like as a kid.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, like what fascinated you, what frightened you, maybe you know, posters in your bedroom, what would your bedroom look like as a kid?
3:33
SPEAKER_00: Just kind of talk about your childhood and what that looked like.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, we're going straight there.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I'm also training as a therapist, right?
3:43
SPEAKER_01: So asking a therapist to talk about their childhood is like very loaded.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, even just like thinking about what the bedroom looked like.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: But in terms of musically, um I guess like a key element was that I was an only child and I grew up in the 90s, so pre-internet, um, and there was just an excess amount of time um to spend on hobbies and uh without distraction.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh I lived in quite a small village, um, not much happening at all.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: And uh it was it it was very much the sort of like come home, spend between 5 pm and 9 pm bedtime alone in your bedroom.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: And those are the years that I remember like starting to play around with music, starting to write lyrics.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I would say that like lyrics have always been the first thing that's that's come to me, and I think that the thing that drives me to continue to write songs.
4:45
SPEAKER_01: So I guess like poetry, lyrics dare I say rap, that's kind of what I was trying to like, you know, play with words um was was my hobby, really.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Um so I always find lyricists fascinating because I I dabble in writing.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: I have a novel, I uh I just like to write.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: It's just something I like to do, but the the structure of a song to me is so difficult to I don't know.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: I think it's like the difference between like writing the script for a TV show and writing the script for a movie.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: Like to me, like the song is so it has to be so perfectly structured and sometimes yeah, I'm I'm just super jealous of that because I it's like it's a poem almost where w instead of a story, I guess.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: So did you have a a particular author or maybe poet that inspired you lyrically that you kind of went towards, or just kind of how did I guess as a kid that's so cool that you were already doing that?
5:46
SPEAKER_00: So I just didn't know if there was something that sparked that.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh I was doing it from like a stupidly young age, like like nine, ten years old.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: So my initial influences are ridiculous, you know, like the Spice Girls.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: It it was silly.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Um but as I um as I developed into a bit more of a musician and I did take up piano to kind of help bolster that side of things.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: Um I was listening to people like Fiona Apple, Kate Bush was a very early influence.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: My dad was really heavily into talking heads, so there was a lot of um kind of quite indie 80s, 90s music happening around me.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: Um my dad has always been very on the like cutting edge of like alternative indie music, so it has brought a lot of um of new music into the house, whereas I also had an influence from my grandma, who was heavily into like musical theatre, Broadway, like old black and white films in high school.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: So there's like and and then I was having classical music lessons at the same time.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: So there was like classical, alt indie, and musicals, and I think you can really hear those three as a continuation through who I am, the competition.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Um I think lyrically though, I I don't I I I think that my uh somebody uh sort of uh told me like really early on that I should always try and look for something that hasn't been said before.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And so I just think like as a as a kind of um rule book, I was just trying to do anything that I thought people hadn't written about before, um, or trying to take the same subject but write about it in a different way, um, and avoid the cliche.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's just the the general challenge, which again like still continue to try and do that today.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: But I do um appreciate a cliche a bit more as an adult.
7:46
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it can go too far the other way.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, how how about you?
7:52
SPEAKER_01: Tell me tell me about the novel quickly because you put it.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Oh just skip past that.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: So it's I like to describe it as Harry Potter meets school of rock.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: So um it's definitely very heavily music-based.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's a kid who gets uh a letter, uh, not from an owl or in the fireplace like Harry Potter, but uh he gets accepted into this music school and he's never heard of, and he's like, you know, what is going on?
8:18
SPEAKER_00: Is someone playing a trick on me?
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, why am I going to this music school?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: And he just, you know, falls in love there.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: He meets really close friends, you know, they they jam together, they talk about music.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a coming of age story in a way, and it's just it's super fun.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: It's for like, I'd say maybe like eight to twelve like level of reading.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: So it's like a more of a younger children's read, but I put a ton of like musical references, like I put credence clear water revival stuff in there, a lot of my chemical romance, um, so like the adults can also kind of like find it enjoyable.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And it was just something, and I can get into this a little later.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: I had some health problems and I just kind of wrote it in my head while I was in the hospital, and it was just, I don't know, when you're in the hospital, you your mind is who knows where.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: And the idea just kind of came up to me.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: And when I finally started getting better, I put it to paper.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And I mean in 2026, I just found an editor online and put it on Amazon, and now I can buy my own book.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, it's pretty fun.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: That sounds cool.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: I really resonate with um the idea of like starting an idea when you're going through some kind of like limitation, like a health issue.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's definitely been my experience.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Like some of my best work has come out of being quite limited and restricted.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, I wonder if this can be like Oh, absolutely for sure.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: I looking back now before my health stuff and after, it's like it's like my life did a 180 physically, obviously, but like the way I think and the way I feel is completely I don't know if different's even the right word.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: I just I think I'm much more like sensitive and fragile, but in like a a good way, just because I saw what could have happened.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: So I I don't really take anything for granted.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: So if I'm like, if I want to write a book or if I want to do a podcast, I'm I'm nothing's gonna stop me from doing it.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, why should I?
10:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh I I think now's a perfect time then to talk piano.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: So what at what age did you start playing the piano?
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I was writing songs on piano like say like age 10, but with no classical tuition, just enough to um kind of get by with chords, and I didn't really know what chords I was using.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Um uh and then classical piano came in when I was actually about 12, so quite late, really, for a child.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was having singing lessons and things before I was having piano lessons.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: Um but the you know, there are I think there are positives and negatives to starting piano late.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh one of them is that uh you know, the negatives are that a lot of it felt like reverse engineering the problem.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Like I I had come up with all these songs already and I was trying to I was trying to do things in a way that took me right around the houses rather than just use the music theory to get there directly.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: And and that was very confusing to then be told by a music teacher teacher later on, like, oh, there's this, you're doing it like this, or you're doing it like that.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: And and I had kind of developed my own language and my own it was just confusing.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: I felt a bit mess.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh but the the positive, I think, of learning of like self-teaching piano and music theory was that I definitely um I definitely didn't didn't follow the standard kind of tropes in terms of chord progressions.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: And even at a really early age, like just accidentally I would come across chords and I I mean I would know that they felt different, I would know that they felt unusual and odd, but I would kind of like it.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: It was like I was coming across these mistakes and going, but that sounds very good, so I'm gonna keep that.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Um and I don't feel that that has happened for some of my contemporaries who have had music lessons from when they were like age five, for example.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: Like they're they're they're very familiar with their chord progressions and what makes sense to them and what is correct to them.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's quote unquote, just feels like um they they see that as a negative, they find it hard to break out of of that box.
12:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, so I came to piano in a really um uh like backdoor kind of way when I was 12.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and my piano teacher was uh I mean, uh if you had told me that he was Mozart reincarnated, I would have I would have believed you because he had the look and he had the playing skills and he spoke that language.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: So it was as classical as as I could get.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: Like I know now like there's a whole world of like jazz and contemporary piano teachers who might have suited me a bit more, but the type of piano lessons I was having were like Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin on repeat, you know.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh and so that was yeah, that was complete contrast to how I'd been doing things.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: It was weird.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm just trying to think how to respond because uh I I started piano around age, I want to say like six or seven, probably.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh so I like, you know, took the lessons and I know I'm six and six, seven years old.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm just there picking my nose.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's going on.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: And but I did know like I loved the sound of music, I loved like songs and things like that.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And so it's like, you know, I want to hear this song because I heard it on the radio, so I want to play this.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: And then like you get to your lesson, and it's like, all right, we're going to learn the we're gonna play this technical scale for 30 minutes in a row.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And um I guess looking back now, I do appreciate all of the knowledge that it gave me, but it definitely can kind of put you in a box creatively at the same time.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: So it's so neat to hear you say that because there's a a really talented pianist.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: He's out of Oklahoma City.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh his name's Johnny Manchild, and he's kind of the same as you, where he like he has the musical theory, but he knows how to like expand it and you know, like make it his own.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Like as great as Chopin and Beethoven and Mozart are if I wanted to listen to Beethoven and Chopin and Mozart, I would listen to them.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't listen to you.
15:08
unknown: Yeah.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: If that makes sense.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, there's another part of this progression, uh, which is that I then go on to become a teacher of music myself.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: So one of the things that I f really feel makes me a good music teacher for some people, is that I come very much from a place of purpose.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the reason we're doing this scale?
15:39
SPEAKER_01: What's the reason we're doing this technical exercise?
15:42
SPEAKER_01: And like, how are you gonna use it?
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so the way that I teach is is like, okay, this is how we're gonna learn.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna learn the technique, but I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you exactly how to break the technique into bite-sized pieces, and then I'm gonna show you everywhere in music that it could be used.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna give you a bunch of examples and we're gonna learn it today, and you're gonna put it into practice today.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: And if that can happen, and it it's like a it'll be like a micro technique, you know, be a maybe two or three notes that we're trying to learn.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: But if you can go through that kind of arc within the course of an hour, I find that really satisfying.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Like as a like as a learner and as a teacher, it's it feels like progress when you go, okay, I've learned the name of a new technique.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe pre-having this lesson, I didn't even know this existed.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: I've learned the name of it, I've broken it down to a point where I can do it, I've heard it in lots of examples of music, and now I'm using it.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay, bye, that's the lesson over.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, that feels complete, like life of the cycle, and that definitely has developed.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Um I was experiencing what you just described.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: Just this feeling of like, yeah, I'm playing this scale.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: Why though?
16:59
SPEAKER_01: Why?
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and you you know, in hindsight, we know why, and it's because these scales make up all music, but as a kid, you don't hear it like that.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Like you say, you just want to be able to play the latest soundtrack from the the latest Disney film or whatever, you know.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: That's fun.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: That's I mean, that's perfect.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: I can I might have to uh move over there and take some piano lessons from you if if you don't but um because I I I did love it, I loved it so much, but and then I when I stopped taking them, I did I just did everything by ear, so I would just you know hear the song and dork around until I could play it.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if it's right or wrong, but that's kind of how I am now.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: Like when you shared a couple tracks with me, I instantly went to the piano and tried to play them or find the key it's in, or things like that.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Because even if you know like the key that it's in, even if you're playing it like not like you play it, it still can sound at least you think like it sounds good, you know?
18:06
SPEAKER_00: So I could talk about piano all day, but um so when did you think that you could make music kind of your living, whether it was through you know performing or through releasing music or or teaching, or did you ever think that, or did you I guess just how did your music career get to where it is now, I guess is the question.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: That's a good question because not not enough people ask that question, and I think it's really I think people that are interested in making a living from music need to hear how how to get from that like initial point to earning money.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's very secretive um for a lot of people.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Like we don't like sharing how much money we make most of the time because it's not very much.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: Um but for me, there I was almost just overly confident, I was naively confident to the point of just believing that I was always gonna make money from music and why wouldn't I?
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and yeah, completely ignorant to how difficult it would be.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: So when I uh had the opportunity to go to uni, it was like, well, I'm gonna do music, because why wouldn't I?
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the you know, the reality of that is I didn't have the sort of parents that were telling me you're not gonna be able to make money from music.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: And also in that era, like you could still make money from music.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think now it would be a really different decision.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I'd have gone to uni to do music now because I was certain that I was gonna be rich and famous.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Um now that just wouldn't be an option with music.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: So I went to uni and decided that there was absolutely no reason for me to get a normal quote job.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Like I am just I am good enough to just make money from music and and start uh teaching.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: So I think I took my first singing lesson when I was 19, so I was still living off my uh the government student loan, paying my rent, and building up a teaching career.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so by the time I was like 21 and leaving uni, I had I had like 30 or 40 singing students a week.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was that.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: Then it's like okay, how do we transfer the teaching over to making money from my songwriting?
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh which was which was another transition.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: But it was it's all easy once you're in the world of music, I think.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Once you're, you know, because then my entire diet was music and people that make music, and I was just sort of in the middle of that whirlwind of musicians that lived in the same area.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Um and so it came it came easier than if I had gone, right?
21:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go and work on a checkout and then have to transfer from that kind of a day job into music.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: That can be really challenging for a lot of people.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it is it's just so unique to me because and I I love asking this question because in uh it's probably at the top of your mind too with your kiddos.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, when you go to school, at least the school I went to was just like a normal public school.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like a a prep school or anything fancy like that.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: It's a normal school, and like we had music classes and things like that, which was fun, and it I really enjoyed it, but you know, that's 5% of your day.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: The other 95% is you have to learn your maths, you have to learn by Biology, you have to learn chemistry, you have to learn who signed the Declaration of Independence in what year, like all of that sort of stuff.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's all well and good in its own right.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And there are people that go on and do incredible things with, you know, those types of jobs.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: But I just feel like maybe there is some sort of in-between we can get to to really cultivate and nourish, you know, younger people in school to pursue creative arts, whether you know that's musicianship or uh becoming an artist, a painter, a writer.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: Um I just feel like at least my experience, the system isn't necessarily set up that way.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's why I think music is so special, because it's like, oh my God, how did you do that?
22:43
SPEAKER_00: Like I never would have been able to do that.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it's it's not set up that way.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: It's not set up that way in the UK either.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think, like I say, I was I was an exception.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, not a lot of people were doing what I did.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, I was I was a total outlier in the school.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Like the majority of people went on to do pretty normal, pretty sensible jobs.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Um I think I had a lot to say as well.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and this this could be due to the fact that I was an only child.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know why I felt like my story was particularly interesting.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Um it got interesting as I got older and I went through more kind of traumatic and deeper life experiences, it got uh it got interesting.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: But as a 10-year-old, I don't know why I thought people would want to listen to me.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Um I guess I just was really inspired by the idea that you know some people were doing it.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Some people like, what do you mean?
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Some people are making a living by walking around on stage and and singing.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
23:55
SPEAKER_01: Like that that's amazing.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Like why why can't I do that?
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, it just looked really fun, and I wanted my life to be fun, um, which is which is hilarious because it's actually a really hard slog.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh so I really want to ask, I've had the wonderful um threads of conversation about this topic.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of just about the music industry in general today, because obviously when when you were a child, and even yeah, I was a child, so I was born in the 90s.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Um I think just the art of an album is kind of lost.
24:34
unknown: Yeah.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Like as a kid, I remember, you know, oh my gosh, I get to go to the music store.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: I need to, I can go to Walmart, which is like a super center or whatever, and you know, buy a CD.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Like that was a huge deal to have, you know, that CD because we didn't have Spotify, we didn't have YouTube, we didn't have any of that.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: So it's like I will sit down and I will listen to this CD 37 times from front to back.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: And today people just don't do that.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: And I guess it's hard to blame them, and I'm a culprit as well when you can pay$9 a month or$10 a month, whatever, to have Spotify, listen to whatever you want, whenever you want.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: So I just kind of wanted your thoughts on that.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Because uh Yeah, I mean, uh so many thoughts.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this would be uh I I think okay, so the first thing is like, does the audience still want an album?
25:22
SPEAKER_01: I think there is proof to say that an audience does actually still want an album, even younger audiences who maybe don't um have never consumed music through a like physical product, like a vinyl or a CD or a tape.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that you know, because otherwise, why are young artists releasing albums?
25:41
SPEAKER_01: And they are, right?
25:42
SPEAKER_01: So record labels are still putting money into a collection of songs.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and albums are still a more successful kind of promotional tool and campaign for artists than just dropping singles repeatedly um or or EP.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: So there is still, I think, a hunger for albums from the audience as much as from the artist.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think for artists, there a key component to like being able to function as a creative person revolves around a project.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: And I think having a project and taking it from you know, nothing to something to finish to releasing, to then starting again, I think is it's it's part of our human nature, and it's what keeps us feeling like we're growing and moving forward, and you know, get deeper into that kind of mindset.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: But I think the album is a good example of it's just another project.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like, would a playwriter want to write a play if they knew that it could only ever be dissected up onto little TikTok?
26:48
SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, they still want to write the play, they still want to say the thing, um, and people would still want to consume it.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think what's been made difficult is that um the platforms are making it harder for us to consume an album.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: So they are it it feels like they're doing everything they possibly fucking can to try and eradicate the album, but it still exists, and I think that's something that you know not a lot of promotional uh not a lot of PR companies are gonna tell you.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: Like uh you know, people like Spotify are the ones that are driving the narrative that a single is more valuable and that to release singles repeatedly is more valuable, yeah.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: By your model, and it just it just so happens that you were first to market with an easy, user-friendly streaming platform that was also affordable and and kind of worked well for everybody.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's that's kind of happenstance.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: I I you know I guarantee if if a different platform came along that was streamer user-friendly but was more album focused, like let's imagine a different scenario, let's imagine a platform that's like a Spotify kind of setup, but when you click on something, it you have to listen to the whole album, right?
28:05
SPEAKER_01: So gotcha.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: So, like you know, that would be a wonderful experience, and that would become a new way.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: If if that was what everyone was doing, then that that would be a great way to listen to music.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: The problem is also though, like the fact that Spotify and and streaming has um it's changed the focus of what people are doing when they're in the writing room, never mind when they're like releasing the campaign.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: So for the last 20 years now, people have been writing differently because they've been thinking about this is going to be streamed, we need to get to the chorus as quickly as possible because it it becomes more disposable and more kind of one use.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's a bit like one-use plastics, you know.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: That's that's the kind of era that we're in musically.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: Um but underneath that is like okay, yeah, you've got your one-use plastics, you've got your you've got your pop tunes that are being written to be disposable, and you've got your TikTok application of music, which is making all of all of music sound the same and you know, be written so that people can do dances to it on TikTok rather than written from the soul.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: You have got that, but you've also got your quality ethical companies who are your quality ethical artists who are writing music because they can't stop writing music, and they're writing music because maybe they went through a death in the family last year, and that means that feeling needs to come out of their bodies, and that is still ongoing, it's still in existence.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: But we we're being drowned out by this disposable music and being drowned out by this like new narrative that what we're doing is like kind of old-fashioned and irrelevant, and I think that that's um I think that's a lie.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: I think it's I think it's a perfect lie, and I and I don't think um I don't think they're fooling anyone.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: I think we can see through it, and people that care about music are still listening to albums a hundred percent.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: The problem for us is that we there's a lot of it, and we have access to a lot more um than we can actually uh than than we can actually consume in our entire lives.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: So it's you know, it's the it's it's what um it's what the internet did for books as well.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you just if you just went to your local bookshop uh or your local library, then you could think, yeah, I'm I'm good at reading.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: I read at least one book every week, and you know, eventually I'll get through the whole library, but then you see that there's a whole world of writing and it it's just kind of overwhelming.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: And um, I think the overwhelm sometimes can can make even real music fans quite turned off by like digging through the archives, digging through everything.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's in a nutshell that there's a lot of scattered thoughts there, but um I am I am both really, you know, pissed off at the music, the way the music industry looks, uh and also just kind of like I don't really think anything's changed, actually.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: I just think you know people are talking about it in a different light, um, but people still can, people still listen to music.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I that was a very good answer because that's uh it's such an interesting topic to hear from your perspective opposed to from a consumer perspective, because from a consumer perspective, I never would have found you without Spotify, or I never would have found whatever.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: And so from a consumer perspective, I'm like, that's awesome.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: I can find really cool music because I appreciate really cool music that I can't hear, you know, on the radio, and that's why I appreciate it.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: But then, like you said, I can kind of get pissed off because you're not seeing any monetary gain from me clicking play on Spotify at all because that's just not how the model's set up, unless you're you know, Rihanna or Taylor Swift or whatever.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Um but no, I think you're exactly right that there is there are people still out there that want the album experience and appreciate it.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Um like Michigan sent me an album and stickers and like patches and stuff, and just like that is so cool to just have a physical sentiment to something and something as simple as back in the day with CDs when they had the little notebook and the artwork and the lyrics and just just cool stuff like that is like I yearn for that, and I know there's artists like you that still love to do things like that, so um I could yeah, that's another rabbit hole that I'm sure you could probably spend all day on.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: But uh, I mean, I think that's you're talking about um something that I heard someone describe recently, like music used to be the event, and now it's the soundtrack to an event, and what they meant was people would buy the CD, they would you know, they they go to the store to buy the CD.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: That would be their activity for the day to decide what they were gonna spend their money on, and then they'd come home and the event was I am gonna sit down with my headphones and the lyric book, and I'm gonna spend an hour with this, and and so much of that has been removed, like so much of just that journey of getting the music and appreciating the music has been removed that even if I am intentional about listening to music, like Mishkin sent me her album recently too, and I'm desperate to listen to it.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: But my brain tells me that I can't make that an event anymore.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: My brain tells me that because it's screamable, I should be doing something else, like I should be at the gym, or I should be driving somewhere if I'm listening to it, or at least should be getting some exercise and going for a walk while I'm listening to it.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Like that that has definitely shifted.
34:13
SPEAKER_01: The mentality that we come to use it, and that is the campfire, that is the replacement for the TV screen, or like that's the thing, and it's so rare that we get the chance to do that because everything is missing a physical product, it's missing that lyric, like you said, or it's missing the piece of merchandise to stare at while you're listening and while you can see.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think the phys the physicality of music is really important as well, just having something to put between your fingertips and you kind of a different kind of sensory element to to the soundtrack.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Can you see what I'm gonna do?
34:52
SPEAKER_00: And it can be said with everything in life in 2026, not just music.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: We're always rushing to the destination.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: We are never I'm I'm going to get lunch right now because I have to get back and do something else, and then I do something else because I have to go and do something else.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: Like it's never, it just doesn't stop.
35:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, like writing, for instance, even 30 years ago, if I needed a thesaurus or a dictionary, I had to go get a thesaurus or a dictionary.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't say, hey Google, hey Siri, hey, insert AI platform here.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: What's a different word for smelly?
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Or you know what I mean?
35:33
SPEAKER_00: Like I would have to like research it and things like that.
35:37
SPEAKER_00: And I it's just kind of the society we're in, and kind of like I mentioned before, I'm trying to do a better job of not being like that because like life is too short.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: It is way too short to let things pass by and to not appreciate, take a breath.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: And like you said, yeah, sure, I probably should be taking a jog or walking, but sitting down with an album is it's just it's really existential because you start thinking, like, well, what is maximizing my life?
36:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's that's the problematic in this day and age when we have access to and the ability to multitask in the way that we do, or habit stack, and we're constantly being talked about optimization, like life optimization, like it is we are being told that we're not doing enough with our life, and so to slow down and just appreciate one thing for one hour on its own without scrolling at the same time or answering an email at the same time, like we've we've been fed for so long now that that is uh wasteful and that that's a waste of our time.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: And and I it's really hard to do that now because we got constant notifications happening at us all all the time.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Um and and even so, like I I I believe like my my parents' age are probably I can tell my mum kind of feels it uh even more than I do.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Like she'll have a panic attack if she hasn't responded to an email within five minutes of getting it, you know?
37:18
SPEAKER_01: And I I don't know why that has happened, but but we're all feeling that, and and we're all you know, it's like rude not to respond to a text from someone after if if it's been longer than 24 hours.
37:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's actually right now is really interesting having had a baby, like why they give you you know, oh you know, we just had a baby, I can't believe they're eaten out of the house and get all these for about three weeks, uh and then it's back to like why hasn't this person responded to myself?
37:54
SPEAKER_01: When are you back at work?
37:55
SPEAKER_01: You know, and and uh you sort of feel that as a as a new parent.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: I feel that it's like I've got four weeks max where I can get away with you know not responding to every person within the space of 24 hours, and now I'm like back on duty.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Which is it's it's massively fucked up because what we were saying there is like, oh, you enjoy your newborn bubble while your baby is so tiny and so precious, you enjoy your newborn bubble for that like first four weeks, but then don't enjoy the rest of your life like that.
38:32
SPEAKER_01: Don't don't you dare when your child is four years old, live in the present moment with them.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, you need to be back at work, you need to be functioning as part of society by that point, and that can be extended out to like you know, having dinner with your partner or listening to music, and you you know, I think it's uh you know, being being told to focus on ourselves uh for our own mental health is also now a business, you know, the way that we are being outed, wellness and health and mental health is now also businessified.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it's tough.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: It's tough to make anything in life an event anymore.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: But music, especially, I see that.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, I I just love the the passion and fire that you speak with on that because it's exactly why I do what I do with this podcast is to kind of bring that out of people, and I want people to hear that that passion and that fire and not be okay with the status quo, and it's I don't know if that makes sense.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just especially especially people thousands of miles away, like the my podcast is shrinking the world, and there's so much division in society and things like that, and just to have this chat together and you know feel the same way to me is so incredibly powerful.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: I just I've just loved our conversation so far, and I don't want it to stop, so I'm going to keep rolling.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: And so you talked about being a mother and juggling that, and it is sad when you think like you want to spend every second with that child and things like that.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: But I it's funny that like you get those first four weeks when I've never had a child, so I could be speaking out of turn, but like it it's not really doing anything, like it's just kind of um, which I mean it's still very important, obviously, spend time with it and nurture it and all that stuff.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: But like you said, like a four-year-old toddler or a uh 14-year-old girl, like being there for them and spending time with them and nurturing them when they need it is just as important.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: But society says no, they'll be fine on their own, they'll do whatever you need to take care of your responsible other responsibilities, and I don't know.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've if you if you jive with that at all, but uh a hundred percent.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and it's like, yeah, they'll be fine, and also you'll be fine as a parent.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, no, hang on.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Whether my child is four days, four weeks, four or fourteen, it's still the first time I'm parenting a 14-year-old.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: It's still the first time I'm parenting a four-year-old.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm still learning on the job how to do this.
41:24
SPEAKER_01: Like, I need to give it my full attention because I don't know how to parent a teenager, and and I'm sh I'm sure parenting a teenager is is harder in many ways than parenting a newborn.
41:38
SPEAKER_01: There's no but there's just this sort of expectation that like you you don't need that much time or that much focus for it.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, I I think um you know, a lot of my music to bring us back around to music a little bit, like a lot of my lyrics are about uh rage and parenthood rage.
42:01
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh, you know, uh the the shift in dynamic between like my myself and my own mother now that I have a child and like you know looking at um just looking at how I how I talk to my partner and how my relationship with my partner has changed since having a baby and uh and it can get very hormone-fueled as well, so there is like a an internal kind of rage that builds up and like a postpartum depression or a prenatal depression.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: But I think um, you know, that's that is a lot to contend with, and so much of so much of what I need to be doing really is is figuring that out and having space to kind of talk to my friends about like what's normal and what's not there for me, never mind for my child.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, sure, I need to make sure that my four-week old is kind of doing the right things at the right time and hitting the right milestones, but how about me?
43:07
SPEAKER_01: Like, because I feel really I feel really weird and I feel really fucked up and really depressed, and I think I need some medication.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, who you know, who do I speak to?
43:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's also a huge sort of shame and a taboo attached to being a bad parent, you know.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to be the parent that they think that their child is gonna get taken away from them, and so nobody speaks about this kind of openly, doing a bad job of parenting or what that looks like.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a really scary place to be.
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh yeah, uh, and just it's just really confusing because you know, also how how am I supposed to be a full time musician and have a family at the same time as as a woman?
43:56
SPEAKER_01: Like how how am I how am I gonna go on tour ever again?
44:00
SPEAKER_06: Right.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, what what does this look like?
44:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, and being a parent in the music industry is so uncool because it instantly ages you.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so uh as we know, like youth is cool, right?
44:15
SPEAKER_01: So it instantly puts an age stamp on me, and um and it's kind of not uh it's not a universal experience to be a mother.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's not even 50% of the population is a is a mother.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: And so does that kind of narrow down my audience if I talk about postpartum rage?
44:35
SPEAKER_01: And like does it does it now only appeal to people who have gone through that experience as well?
44:39
SPEAKER_01: So it's a very strange transition, I think, for people who are creative and what their output looks like after becoming a parent.
44:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I think it's cool as hell that you're a parent and being a musician to me, and I love that you use that as fuel in your lyrics and the feelings you have, the postpartum postpartum depression.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's a a a really cool chef that I follow that she suffered from very, very, very, very bad postpartum depression and talked about it, and she's still you know super successful, but she also like realized like I do have to take a set back, and it's okay.
45:20
SPEAKER_00: I can you know do things a little bit more at my own pace and things like that.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: So I yeah, like I said, I still think it's super cool that you can continue to do it, and I don't ever want, like, I don't know, like I feel like I'm like talking as your father, but like I don't want you to have like that pressure to be cool because I think that's uncool trying to be cool.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: Um later, I yeah, I think there is just um uh there it there is a pressure, maybe the pressure is coming from me to be more like my old self, though, if that makes sense.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, yeah, it's it's really odd.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: And and then you have to go, well, why?
46:04
SPEAKER_01: Like you've just gone through a huge transition in life.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: Why are you pretending that this hasn't happened?
46:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, you should be writing differently because you're on the other side of something huge that happened, um, and is still happening, and there are yeah, new problems.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: And those you know, I I think the thing is whatever you're going through in life can be um can be written about in a way that still feels relatable and still resonates with people's universities.
46:40
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't need to be so literal and so specific that it isolates you as a musician.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it's just uh it's just another challenge.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: It's another one of those writing challenges.
46:54
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I feel like I want to write about how pissed off my two-year-old art thing.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, but how can I do that in a way that it feels universal and doesn't actually feel like I'm shouting at a two-year-old.
47:08
unknown: Yeah.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: It's uh but I mean I guess if you think about it, I mean that's what all great music comes out of is a is a feeling that the artist is having, whether, you know, it's how you feel with your as a parent, it's how every great artist, you know, in my opinion, every great artist, you know, writes their songs.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: That's why I know people like Bob Dylan and Lou Reed and Bob Marley were so successful talking about you know, things like that.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: And like those are the kinds of artists I gravitate towards where the lyrics actually mean something.
47:46
SPEAKER_00: And it's I understand where you're coming from.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: Where like, well, I don't want to be so unique and so uh put yourself in a box that it's so that your audience could be so narrow, but um I don't know, those are just my thoughts, but uh so I want to really have a little bit of fun here.
48:06
SPEAKER_00: I have quite a few ideas.
48:08
SPEAKER_00: We'll see which ones you vibe with the most.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: Um I can do this one, okay.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: So I love to do the British slang versus like US slang stuff because you guys say the weirdest stuff, and you probably think we say the weirdest stuff.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: And I was doing this with Michigan and I didn't know what the word fanny meant in in England, and so I felt like an idiot there.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: But um like so we always do the uh so like explain for our audience if you're going to have fish and chips, like that's easy.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: We we know what that chips are French fries, or French fries are chips, but like and then you go, what are chips then to you?
48:50
SPEAKER_00: They're crisps, right?
48:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, am I following?
48:53
SPEAKER_00: And then what's the other word that always gets me?
48:55
SPEAKER_00: It's boot.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Like I feel like you use the word boot for like everything.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: Do we?
49:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't and I I maybe I'm just watching too much Ted Lasso, but uh because a boot to us is just like something you wear, but you guys call football cleats, we call them cleats boots.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: And isn't that back of a car called the boot?
49:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so what you would call like the trunk of a car.
49:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a boot.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: And then you can give someone the boot, like you're gonna give them the boot, and then there's so what do you call actual boots?
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Like like cowboy boots boots.
49:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's just like I don't know.
49:37
SPEAKER_00: I just get so confused on boots over there.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: And uh what's the other?
49:43
SPEAKER_00: This is a food-related one.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: The the the marmite.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: You've gotta what is this marmite thing and why do you put it on stuff?
49:51
SPEAKER_00: It looks disgusting.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: Have you tried it?
49:55
SPEAKER_00: I I said it looked disgusting.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: I've not tried it.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: I cannot say it's what the taste is.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's salt, it's basically just a lot of salt.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: It just tastes it if you're a fan, it is like the best, most wholesome you know, like it's the sort of thing that you you get a serious craving for, you know, like cold weather and you just yeah, it's delicious, and then it's absolutely repulsive to other people.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's really it's really interesting.
50:33
SPEAKER_01: There's one um so okay, so the th the thing that I get confused about with Americans, so we've already said it in this um interview is is you guys say pissed or being angry, right?
50:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: Whereas that means drunk to us.
50:52
SPEAKER_04: Oh, well, okay.
50:54
SPEAKER_01: Um if they were so like when you guys are like, oh, I was pissed.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: Like oh, you're thinking you were Yeah.
51:02
SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, how drunk were you?
51:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think we use it as both, though, not quite as common as drunk, but like you I think there's a saying called piss drunk.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: Like it's called being pissed drunk, but like, yeah, like I am going to have a meeting with my boss later and she's gonna be pissed.
51:22
SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, yeah.
51:24
SPEAKER_00: My boss is not going to be drunk, she's just going to be angry.
51:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, what was the other one?
51:30
SPEAKER_00: I was interviewing Ollie Splen.
51:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know Ollie.
51:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know Ollie, yeah.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Do you mind if I have a pee first?
51:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you're gonna go have a pee?
51:40
SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
51:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, okay.
51:42
SPEAKER_02: So what does that mean to me?
51:44
SPEAKER_00: It's gibberish, is what it is.
51:45
SPEAKER_00: We we which ours makes no sense either.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: We take a pee.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: Which makes even less sense, exactly.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: You're you're but we're taking it in the bathroom, we're not taking it in the loo.
51:59
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: Or like it feels like where are you taking it?
52:05
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, well, where are you where are you having it?
52:08
SPEAKER_00: Like what do you are you are you're having?
52:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
52:11
SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I can't oh I don't even know where to go after that.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: But um There are there are like a few um so like do you guys do like a roast, like a roast dinner?
52:26
unknown: Yeah.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: Like a Sunday roast.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh I don't think it's like as um I don't know, I feel like that's super like I picture every British household having a Sunday roast like every Sunday.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
52:38
SPEAKER_00: But um it's actually funny.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: My what's on your perfect like roast?
52:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: So so we'll just do we call it a pot roast.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: So it's just like you know, your huge hunk of meat and you put it in a crock pot, and you put like broth, and then like I just do like carrots and onions and potatoes, and you just kind of let it sit in the pot all day, and you come home and the beef's all cooked and shredded, and the vegetables are cooked, and it's delicious.
53:09
SPEAKER_01: That's that's not what we do.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna if you have you been to the UK.
53:15
SPEAKER_00: I've not.
53:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
53:17
SPEAKER_01: When you do, you're gonna have a shock if you order a roast.
53:20
SPEAKER_01: Like it's completely, completely different to that.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: But I know I love that like kind of stuff.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: Because we've so I've I've been to the US enough times to have made that focal where I've ordered something, I think I know what it is, and then it arrives, and it's like, what the fuck?
53:38
SPEAKER_01: What is this on my plane?
53:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
53:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, so first of all, what is a roast then in the UK?
53:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, so like what you're describing, a crock pot would never be involved.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's a hunk of meat.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: We're on the same page there.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it is it's roasted in the oven.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's not broth involved, but we do add a gravy at the end.
54:03
SPEAKER_01: So hold on a minute.
54:05
SPEAKER_01: Is gravy in the UK the same as it is in the UN?
54:08
SPEAKER_00: Um well we have like different kinds of gravy in the US, but I'm picturing is it like brown?
54:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, like beat gravy, yeah.
54:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
54:18
SPEAKER_01: We add that all at the end.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: So there's no like there's no juices or anything.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's just like kind of uh I don't want to say dry meat, because dry makes it sound sound bad, but um but in comparison to what you described, it's it's just roast beef or roast chicken, and then that will be accompanied by, and this is this is important, several sides.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: So maybe a little bit more like what you're used to at like a Thanksgiving panel.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
54:50
SPEAKER_01: So then we'll have like Yorkshire puddings, which is a really weird concept because it's like a savory pancake like that rises in the have you seen a Yorkshire pudding?
55:01
SPEAKER_00: Is it like a souffle?
55:02
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a souffle, yeah.
55:06
SPEAKER_01: It's one of the sides, um, which sounds like it's a great effort to go to like doing a souffle on the side of a on the side of a roast, and it is.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: Um so Yorkshire puddings, like, and then you'll have like roasted carrots, and the most important thing is the roast potatoes.
55:24
SPEAKER_01: And people will get very, very particular and very snobby about a good roast potato versus a bad roast potato.
55:33
SPEAKER_01: So if we come to the UK and somebody says, Do you want to go for a Sunday roast?
55:38
SPEAKER_01: Your follow-up question should be about the roast potatoes.
55:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, but only if there's somewhere we know that has got bang-in roast potatoes.
55:47
SPEAKER_00: So are are the potatoes like are they small or are they big?
55:52
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm picturing because they're fucking massive.
55:55
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
55:56
SPEAKER_01: So, like and well, here we go.
55:59
SPEAKER_01: Here's our conversation about what makes a good roast potato, right?
56:02
SPEAKER_01: So perfect.
56:03
SPEAKER_01: This is gonna be different depending on who you ask, but it's like take a take a small like jacket potato size, like that kind of size.
56:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pop that into quarters, that is the smallest they should be, like never any smaller than that, not being cubes or like wedges, they are hunks and then you're gonna parboil them, and like we do weird things like we we scrape them with a fork and stuff like that to get like a texture on them.
56:34
SPEAKER_01: So and then you're like you can do things like some pieces throw a bit of sugar on them, a bit of turmeric, and then roast them.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: They gotta be fluffy on the inside and burned to a crisp on the outside.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're we're on the same page, so uh we just call them we just call them baked potatoes.
56:53
SPEAKER_00: So you're describing what we call just baked potatoes.
56:56
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
56:58
SPEAKER_01: Does that have the skin on it?
56:59
SPEAKER_00: It does.
57:00
SPEAKER_01: No, that's a different thing.
57:02
SPEAKER_01: You don't you don't have this potatoes?
57:04
SPEAKER_01: We do baked potatoes as well.
57:06
SPEAKER_01: That's a good one, but it's not a roast potato.
57:09
SPEAKER_01: This is an experience.
57:11
SPEAKER_01: This is a I I this is a journey, a culinary culinary journey that you must have on Daniel to experience a good UK roast potato.
57:25
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean look look it up.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: I'll have to just look it up.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh I did not I did not know the passion behind the roast potato.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: So I'm passionate, yeah.
57:37
SPEAKER_01: People will fight about it.
57:38
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
57:39
SPEAKER_00: I'll so I'll do so.
57:41
SPEAKER_00: Where we're from, I'm from Nebraska, so in the literal center of the United States, and basically we're known for like beef and corn.
57:50
SPEAKER_00: That's basically what we're known for.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: But uh, we have a dish.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: So are you do you know what a beer rock is?
57:56
unknown: No.
57:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so a beer rock is it's like a germ, it's like a beer rock, B-E-I-R-O-C-K.
58:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's traditionally like German, because we have a ton of like German and Polish immigrants, and it's just basically like a you take like a ball of dough and you stuff it with like ground beef, or as you guys call it mince meat.
58:21
SPEAKER_00: Um and then uh onions and pepper, and you can do cheese as well, and you just kind of stuff it into the bread, and then you like bake it, and so you'll like bite into it, and the cheese is super melty and the and the minced meat is so juicy, and it's c what we call them here are runzas.
58:43
SPEAKER_00: So if you ever are back in the United States, you have to come to Nebraska and have a runza.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
58:49
SPEAKER_01: I will.
58:50
SPEAKER_01: It would do with your lights because I thought when you said beer rock, I wrote I thought you were gonna talk about the uh you didn't like the can of beer, and you like you cook a chicken on it or something.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, beer can chicken.
59:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do you see that?
59:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh huh.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
59:04
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we stole that from you then.
59:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
59:06
SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's awesome.
59:07
SPEAKER_00: It makes the chicken taste so good, it gets it all moist, and um yeah, I love that.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: Um what was the other funny food item that everyone I interview is like Americans have to make everything so lazy.
59:21
SPEAKER_00: Um so we have what is called a walking taco.
59:26
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
59:26
SPEAKER_00: So obviously you know what a taco is.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: Um, so we get a bag of chips or sorry, crisps, but these are um Fritos.
59:35
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what Fritos are?
59:37
SPEAKER_00: It's like a corn chip.
59:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
59:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you get a bag of those, and then you pour your ground beef or your mincemeat.
59:45
SPEAKER_00: Everything has mincemeat in my dishes, but uh, so you pour your ground beef and like your onions and your cheese all in the bag of the Fritos, and you just shake it all up in the bag, and then you just take a fork and you can just, you know, walk around and eat your yeah.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_01: That's gross.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: How is it gross?
1:00:04
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's like a taco, it's just or like a taco salad.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: Like baby food.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like let's take all of the ingredients for a for a well-proportioned, textured, sensitive, sensory meal, and let's put them all in a blender.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_01: No, let's put them on a bag and shake them up.
1:00:27
SPEAKER_01: It's the same thing.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_01: Baby food.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_00: I guarantee if you gave that to one of your kids, they'd be like, Mom, this is so good.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: Who taught you this recipe?
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: No, no, they wouldn't.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: They try on what my kids don't eat anything unless it's just like plain bread on deep bread.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I I I can't disagree.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_00: We do eat some weird stuff, and everything is deep fried.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: We have to deep fry everything.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have deep deep fried Oreos, um, deep fried butter is a thing.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh and what's the what's the last weird one?
1:01:01
SPEAKER_00: A Rocky Mountain Oysters.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: You know what those are?
1:01:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, they are not from the sea.
1:01:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, no.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, no, I don't know what they are.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, they are bull testicles.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh, why?
1:01:15
SPEAKER_00: And uh I don't know.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh again, this is uh I don't know if it's like a German Polish thing, but uh there's actually we have a festival uh kind of close to us, it's called the Testicle Festival.
1:01:28
SPEAKER_01: Of course you do.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:01:30
SPEAKER_00: So uh it's just okay.
1:01:32
SPEAKER_00: Ha ha, Americans are so funny.
1:01:34
SPEAKER_01: I know, and uh yeah, that's a weird one.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_00: Um Well, I mean, you guys are your your blood sausages and your pudding and I feel like it doesn't get worse than the French and their snails.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, I think you know, they set the bar with that, and and there's no beating that.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, in terms of in terms of making a food any more repulsive, that's still top ten.
1:02:02
SPEAKER_00: It's up there, and uh well, the a lot of different Asian cuisines eat some weird stuff too.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_00: But uh, some of it's really good.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: I had a a friend in college who was from Vietnam and they have they eat tripe.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what tripe is?
1:02:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, it's amazing.
1:02:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_01: I have not indulged.
1:02:24
SPEAKER_01: Um people would eat tripe here.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_01: So good.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_01: It's like you don't eat it unless you're like starving to it.
1:02:33
SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm just such a uh I just love experimenting and I'm a super like stingy cheap person.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_00: So like I'll get like the cheapest thing of meat I can get and like try to make it good.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_00: Like that's just fun to me.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_06: Like you're gonna knock the roast potatoes.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_00: But um we're gonna do my favorite question.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_00: So uh, and I did it for Michigan, so we're gonna guess what she did on that one too, because I you'll be surprised.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_00: But uh Hollywood Hollywood's calling, they're calling Georgia, and they're making a biopic about you, which actress is playing you.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know.
1:03:17
SPEAKER_01: Um this don't know.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: That's really tough.
1:03:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
1:03:25
SPEAKER_00: And by I I hope you'll take it as a compliment because I absolutely adore her.
1:03:32
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm just trying to find the picture that because I do it first off looks, and then I'm like, oh my god, like actually, like your personalities, so it's Drew Barrymore.
1:03:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, yeah, that's a massive compliment.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think she's incredible.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_01: Um you kind of just give it our interview style.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_00: About what, sorry?
1:03:53
SPEAKER_01: Our interview style.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, yeah.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: We cringe at it in the UK.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: I have you seen the memes.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_00: I uh no, I just I I kind of stay away from that stuff.
1:04:04
SPEAKER_00: Who who do you want up there?
1:04:06
SPEAKER_01: John Oliver or um I don't know.
1:04:11
SPEAKER_00: Or who's the guy?
1:04:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know who I was gonna say though.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is not because I think that like personality-wise, we would be right, but I often get told that it should be Nicole Kidman, should be the Oh, okay.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's one that I'm like that's the sort of natural go-to that that comes to mind.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
1:04:36
SPEAKER_01: Um Drew Byron is a good fit.
1:04:39
SPEAKER_00: I like I I don't know, she's kind of a I don't know, she's she's just super cute and super talented.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_00: I love her.
1:04:46
SPEAKER_00: I think she's great.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_01: So what did Michikan say?
1:04:50
SPEAKER_00: So we struggled with this, but we uh we both agreed that uh uh Emma Stone is gonna play her.
1:04:57
SPEAKER_01: No way.
1:04:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's what we decided on.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh, have you seen her in the movie Begonia?
1:05:02
SPEAKER_01: No.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh my well, yeah, and all your limited free time, you probably haven't, but it's an amazing kind of grotesque comedy horror.
1:05:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh she plays like an alien and she shaved her head for the role, and she's just incredible.
1:05:20
SPEAKER_00: Just absolutely incredible.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_01: It does depend on on the films you've seen recently, doesn't it?
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: It does.
1:05:26
SPEAKER_01: Like actor, yeah, if they're that's kind of actor.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe Emma Stone is a good fit.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say um Tilda Swinton for Mish.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_00: Which I don't know if I know her off the top of my head.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, I could I could definitely see that.
1:05:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_00: That the the the facial structure is like identical.
1:05:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, she she'd be great.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_01: You've just got that like edge of um I could definitely see that.
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think Till.
1:06:00
SPEAKER_01: this winton would be really cool.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_01: She can be she can be really scary but also really hope humble and like down to earth as as well.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: Like as a as an actress, she can be really uh menacing.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, because she was in um she's in like Doctor Strange.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: Um okay yeah yeah that's a good one I love that question I just like thought of it I'm like oh my god who would play no idea uh hard being asked it it's fun to ask the question but because you're also going oh I don't want to sound too egotistical and name somebody who's really good looking well I I don't I don't see it but like I went to the grocery store one time and someone said I looked like Leonardo DiCaprio and I thought the guy was an absolute psychopath so you know who instantly and I've I mean I I don't know you so I I'm basic I'm basing this off an hour of conversation but um the guy who played the younger guy in Breaking Bad oh uh the the Jesse that guy yeah yeah oh so that's um that's Aaron Paul I think is his name okay so I think he could I think he could play you I mean he's a phenomenal actor he's so good in that okay I'll take that I'll definitely take that I mean you could have said Brian Cranston and then I would have been questioning you so um yeah that's the old guy so uh I still have to keep telling myself like I'm 34 I'm like I'm not just a kid anymore like who are we kidding yeah but um okay so I'm gonna I'm gonna get this last segment going because I I want to know what your future is looking like what you're excited about.
1:07:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean you have so many you have so many gifts obviously you know your your new baby your other two kids um the songs you shared with me have so much going for you so what are you excited about?
1:08:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh I am very excited to release this album.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_01: Um so it I know I don't know how much of the the story you know but the album was uh accidentally destroyed the the two hard drives that it was being stored on um they were stored in two separate locations I had a backup my backup and on the same day in fact within the same hour we text each other and said that our hard drive was broken and that album was gone so we had to reconstruct the album from scratch.
1:08:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness and uh I had to do a whole Kickstarter to fund it and it was a it was a whole massive story because um the song sort of we had like MP3 versions of them so we we could reference back to try and replicate them but throughout the process we were sort of given the gift of being able to um start again like it it was it was like okay the album was 95% finished but now we have to go back to zero but we're not just gonna do it as good as we did then right like we're gonna try and maximize on this and capitalise on the opportunity of being able to go back and I guess treat those as really well formed demos.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_01: So it was an incredibly interesting creative experience but it has also been very exhausting and very stressful to have to go through that.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like releasing that music is going to be a real critical release for me actually.
1:09:34
SPEAKER_01: Just kind of finishing that album cycle and going oh my god we did it like we we we pulled it back from from the fire and adapted this thing.
1:09:44
SPEAKER_01: And it you know in my opinion it sounds it's so much bigger and more adventurous than I was ever going to take it in its initial incarnation and um and it you know it all has happened for a reason um in my opinion but the the other part of that is that I think like like any artist you know releasing an album it is also the start of a new chapter of writing.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_01: It's the start of the what's the next project look like um and all of that coinciding with my pregnancy as well and and sort of you know releasing the baby to want a better expression.
1:10:28
SPEAKER_01: But to to now be in a new place myself both like hormonally and physically and in my like family dynamic like new stuff is happening.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_01: So it's just in general a very exciting time.
1:10:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't know when this uh podcast is gonna go out but the first single of the album is is about to drop like next week and um yeah that's like the start of the end that would be I think timing wise that'd be really cool because I mean I mean the official date is the 6th of November.
1:11:03
SPEAKER_01: So whenever you're hearing um it's it's out on the 6th of November.
1:11:07
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and the the first single is it's particularly uh revealing like it's very personal.
1:11:17
SPEAKER_01: So um I'm excited to have that out and nervous to have it out.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_01: It says a lot.
1:11:25
SPEAKER_01: Um but aside from aside from that I I think it is just like I feel like I learned so much through doing that.
1:11:39
SPEAKER_01: I have so many new ideas and new takes on how to make music um which hasn't happened for a while.
1:11:47
SPEAKER_01: But you know the last few albums that I've kind of produced it's been like yeah I know who my team are and I write the demo and then I send the demo to the producer and then the producer sends it back and then I do this and I do that and it's sort of followed a pathway but because this album kind of pushed it outside of that box I've had to collaborate with some new people um and work in in new ways.
1:12:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely kind of a background on on me and my little team of musicians that I worked with.
1:12:20
SPEAKER_00: That makes it almost even more incredible how it kind of had a rebirth and um a a little birdie told me that it sounds pretty good.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_00: I I may or may not have somehow listened to a little bit of it.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_00: So um no I I couldn't be more excited for it to be completely frank.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_01: It it went pretty well with a fucking rebirth that is true.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_01: And a cla because like um one of the coolest rewards that people could have pledged uh I thought like as a because I'm a obviously a massive music nerd so this would have been the one that I had chosen like I get the t-shirt I get the you know it was the lost recording.
1:13:02
SPEAKER_01: So you know how I said we had the MP3 to so there is a whole album's worth of MP3 for how it used to sound and then there's the the new version that was rebuilt and I think as a listening experience going back to what we were saying about how music is an event or could be an event it's so interesting to go okay let's listen to what this song sounded like burned in a fire.
1:13:32
SPEAKER_01: And then let's listen to how the team have adapted changed made it better in their opinion.
1:13:39
SPEAKER_01: And like I uh I'm a big fan of Jeff Buckley and I think um one of the interesting things about Jeff's music is you can go online and listen to a lot of the demos and the early gigs like live recordings and then you hear like Grace where it where the album has been um perfected and just seeing it's just so interesting as a musician to hear how like on the first version of this recording that ad lib that he does there was like two notes and then on the next version it was like five notes and he perfected exactly where he wanted and then on the on the official like release version it's now this perfectly like emotive like beautifully formed ad lib but you can see the construction of that happening.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:14:31
SPEAKER_01: And that's really rare to see that.
1:14:33
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's again another another exciting part of this project that never would have happened is that people can now listen to the old you know what we're calling the lost recording.
1:14:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's that adjourn.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_00: It's how it's changed how it's you know yeah um well I think that'll it'll just gonna be one one hell of a drop and I'm I'm super pumped for you because I know how much just from speaking with you for this you know hour hour and a half how much vulnerability and you put into your to your music so I'm super stoked for that and uh we've covered so much ground today uh some serious stuff some fun stuff we learned about your passion for roasted potatoes uh your repulsiveness on walking tacos um I just have had an absolute blast and I can't thank you enough for for taking the time out of your your day you're like please don't leave I have to go back to the real world but I just thank you so much for for being with us today.
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
1:15:43
SPEAKER_00: And uh for everyone out there go and support her work go to her website buy merchandise uh follow her Patreon I'll have the link in the in the episode description buy that new record uh don't even wait for that just listen to her uh previous work as well so uh like I said I had a blast I can't wait to to keep in touch with you and to listen to the new record when it comes out thank you so everyone take care of yourselves uh be kind to yourself and we'll see you on the next one with Stream of Consciousness with Dan.