Latest / Popcorn and Pals / Ep 23 - Halloween (1978)

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Ep 23 - Halloween (1978) · Popcorn and Pals

• justin: welcome back to Popcorn and Pals, the podcast where we talk about all sorts of movies, good and bad, and give you our completely unqualified takes on them. Hey Zach, and I'm Justin. And today we're kicking off our Halloween movie month by talking about the 1978 slasher that started it all. It's the original Halloween. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, it's Halloween time. I already got my decorations up and everything. It's the first thing I did this weekend. justin: Did you you put up your big skeleton, right? Zach Wheeler: Yep, I bought myself like a it was like a Costco, like five foot tall, like coming out of the ground skeleton. My son was so excited about it. justin: Good. Zach Wheeler: So I got that going. I have my wife and I are like like like your family, very DIY. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: So we made like a a ghost that like s like floats over like a swing like it's a child in a swing and we put a graveyard in front of it. And that's we got all we're we're spooking it up over here. justin: Ooh. That's fun. I saw something I don't know anything about like Halloween decorations, how to make them, but I saw somebody made like chicken wire like spooky people and like hang it from a rope on their tree so it kind of spins and it looks like ghosts from far off. Honestly one of the coolest Zach Wheeler: yeah, I think I've seen it. And like it like kinda catches the light a little bit so it's like they're floating like a frugal or whatever. Yeah, yeah. justin: Yeah, yeah. I feel like that would be whoever came up with that idea, bravo. Because I feel like that's really nothing Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha justin: against big skeletons, but yeah, chicken wire. very interesting. Anywho, yeah, it's Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: the start of our Halloween month. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. How are you a Halloween movie guy? Like do you have like a long list of Halloween movies that you have to watch every year? justin: I love I I don't know, it depends. I mean like old me yes, new me with my wife who just wants to watch Harry Potter every Halloween and Christmas. Zach Wheeler: yeah. justin: But yeah. I I mean like in the past, of course, like spooky season month. I feel like they used to back like when cable was still the main thing, I feel like there was always, you know, Halloween movie marathons. I used to love it and you Zach Wheeler: Sure, yeah. justin: know, now it's spread out, but absolutely. Love a good scary movie. Zach Wheeler: I know I think I'm like you. I always get dragged into like the kids' Halloween movies like Casper from the nineties justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: or Hocus Pocus, which I'm like my wife loves Hocus Pocus. It is trash. It is not a good movie. I'm like it's fun. Bette Midler like crushes it. She's in there justin: Whoa. Whoa. Zach Wheeler: just crushing it, right? But outside of Bet Midler, the children are like insufferable justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: in that movie. The cat's pretty good. I like Thackeray Banks. But justin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. I mean Zach Wheeler: and I'm like I'm justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: not a big like nightmare before Christmas fan. justin: Hm. Zach Wheeler: I'm not a big like so like I g I watch Halloween movies every year. But like what I'm like you, I what I wanna watch are the scary movies and just my wife is takes a lot of work to get her to watch one of those. justin: Yeah. Yeah. I think and we've talked about this and not necessarily on this podcast before, but I think we both agree that the horror movie genre is it feels like untapped potential. I think there is so much opportunity for like really good scary stories and I don't know, I feel like a lot of modern horror movies kind of get diluted down, but yes, I agree. Halloween feels like scary movie month, less fun fall vibes month. And yeah. You know, the one thing I will say, there a couple of years ago, I feel like we got into a really good rhythm where Mike Flanagan was coming out with like new scary shows on Netflix every October. And it was like I feel like we got like two or three or four good years where it was like, shit, it's Mike Flanagan month. And like we had Midnight Mass and, you know, like a bunch of his other shows. Zach Wheeler: I don't know, Haunting a Hill House is like was still is still like one of my favorite. We were talking about for this month to do because we're gonna do scary movies this month. We talked about the shining, and I'm like, we should do the sequel to the shining. It's not even a classic, it's like barely ten, I don't even see if it's even ten years old yet. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And I'm like, Dr. Sleep was so good, my clanigan! justin: Yeah. Yeah, Mike Flanagan. I think he I think I saw something. He's maybe doing like the new Carrie show that comes on. Like an entire show about Zach Wheeler: Okay. justin: the old movie, but I think he's involved in that Zach Wheeler: Was it? justin: in some capacity. Zach Wheeler: Wasn't he supposed to be the dude doing clayface? justin: I have no idea. But I feel like Zach Wheeler: that's what I I thought I then dropped off of it and you're like, Ugh, all right. justin: I feel like he gained a lot of notoriety on like maybe his shows and then that kind of propelled him into let's make make this dude do bigger stuff. which I I think it yeah, yeah. He's Zach Wheeler: Yeah. His shows are incredible on Netflix. I love them. justin: he I feel like he does really good, like creepy, scary stuff, so as well, you know, it's deserved. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, for sure. I got like notes on scary movies later in Age the Best, 'cause I do like I'm like you. To me, there's two types of scary movies out there. There's either like it's either really good. I think a lot of the conjuring ones are like been pretty good lately, you justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: know. There's a lot of so it's not as it's probably the most suc successful cinematic universe besides the Marvel one actually. But justin: Mm, yeah. Zach Wheeler: like I feel like at least the first couple conjuring movies were really good. but yeah so you have like Conjuring one really good horror movie. There's some really good ones that come out like recently too. You're talking about the Mike Flannick and stuff. And then there's just this other category of horror that's just garbage. It's like it is so bad. It's just like you know jump scares and slasher and gore for the sake of it. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And sure yeah you can make it really cheap, which is like part of the appeal of horror movies, at least the produ producing horror movies, and it's probably why they're never gonna go anywhere, like as some of these other genres that come and go. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: But it's yeah, they're either really good I find, or like really bad. There's like hardly ever like a kind of horror movie. justin: Yeah. Yeah. And and I feel like nowadays we also we kind of have like this new I don't want to say a new emergence, but like there's been several movies that have come out, I feel like, over the last several years and even like the last year, like that have kind of shaken up the formula. There's new people stepping into kind of the horror spotlight like obsession. I just watched I just watched Backrooms Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. justin: on Friday that just came out on HBO. Zach Wheeler: How do you how'd you feel about back rooms? That was like that had a moment. justin: Yeah, it was interesting. I mean like I don't know if I put it down as like, I loved it, but it was so different than anything I've ever seen before. So I at least give it points for creativity. I I know it's like Zach Wheeler: Sure. Creativity. justin: you know, backrooms is like its own entire thing and this movie was just a spin-off of that. But anyway, I feel Zach Wheeler: Sure. justin: like there's just been a lot of like I feel like if you're a horror movie fan, it's a really good time 'cause I feel like there's some really unique things that have come out over the last few years. Whereas, you Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: know, in the last several decades we've had a handful of like the conjuring like you talked about or or this or that. But I feel like more often than not, scary movies are like jump scares or it's just silly stuff that's not I don't know, it feels half baked, but Zach Wheeler: Do you have like a favorite genre of horror? 'Cause I feel like we we know we classify horror, but there's like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: supernatural horror or like you know, like psychopath horror like kind of what this what Halloween is. There's justin: No Zach Wheeler: I would say like even some thrillers can be like have a horror elements to them. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Like I'm thinking of like Zodiac. Like that's not I would not consider that a horror film. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: But like the scene when what's his name? Ugh N Nycrawler what what am I drawing a blank? Prince of Persia. Jake Jalong justin: Take tail now. Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: when he's like in the basement of that one guy's house justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and he's like he he's kind of thinking that this might be the Zodiac and he goes it like all of a sudden like transforms into like a horror movie for like ten minutes. Like justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I think there's some really good so like, I don't know, do you have like a favorite genre? justin: Mm-hmm. I think as I've gotten older, 'cause I remember being a kid and I don't I think my parents were just out of their nut. Because I've I've remember watching Halloween as a young child and being terrified of it. of like Michael Myers, yes. But like as I Zach Wheeler: This movie? Okay. justin: get older, I think I fall into the camp of like paranormal, supernatural, like the conjuring. still gives me the heebie jeebies. But you know what else kind of like freaks me out? This is not necessarily horror, but I would almost put it. Chernobyl on HBO. If you I don't Zach Wheeler: Mm. justin: i I don't know if you ever watched Chernobyl, but yeah, right? Like the Zach Wheeler: yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, I loved it. justin: very first episode of Chernobyl where it actually all of the things happen. I remember being terrified and like just thinking about, Zach Wheeler: Same. justin: you know, like this 'cause it was something that actually happened. I think I think you start to lose me when I'm like, this serial killer's chasing me and the main character falls down because she's not coordinated. Like that doesn't scare me 'cause I feel Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: like if it was me, I'm a track star. I'm out of there, you're not catching me. And, you know, I'm gonna run all the way down the block and I'm gonna call the cops or whatever. I'm not gonna go hide in my closet. Like that stuff doesn't really scare me. It's the stuff that I feel like I couldn't combat or might actually be plausible. I don't know. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, like the situation getting away from you kind of thing and like it just Yeah. That's a good that's inter yeah. I find that I don't like gravitate to any one specific one. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: I think recently the more to your point, the more supernatural stuff is has been done better and that's probably partly technology and filming techniques now make all that stuff feel more tangible and a little creepier. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: we just talked about the the Mike Flanagan and the and the conjuring stuff as an example of all that. But then I also like find myself sometimes these like If the psychopath is like done right and it's based on a real person, maybe even, or like real events, then it can get pretty creepy. But justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: it all the I find the slasher genre is like probably the one I find the least interesting overall. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Like just, you know, show up in a house and they're hiding and then like I don't know. I do I feel like the more paranormal elements, whether it's like res the evil dead and things like that, that are maybe a little creepier and a little more out of control. And maybe it's safer because it's fantastical too, right? So justin: Hm. Yeah. I will say the one genre of I don't even know if I would put it into the horror category, but like Murder Porn, like, saw all of those I hate those. I like that's that stuff's not scary to me. Yeah. It's just it's just Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. Hostile slaw, yeah. justin: gross. I feel like Zach Wheeler: I I'll give Saw one props, like it's creative and original, justin: Sure. Zach Wheeler: but then that that series devolves very quickly. Yeah. justin: Yeah, it does. I mean, like it's it's interesting g especially because we're starting off this month with Halloween, because it's one of the original horror movies that helped spearhead this new like generation of scary movies, right? Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: and and when you look at everything that we just talked about all of it branches off and I feel like you might even be able to trace back, you know, parts of each of those genres, back to movies like Halloween, the Thing, you know, all of that type of stuff. so Zach Wheeler: Uh-huh. justin: it's yeah, I feel like kicking off Halloween month, starting with the original Halloween was very fitting. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, it's appropriate, right? Like I I think this what this is interesting to your point about like the slasher, you know, torture porn type movies. this movie, while it is a slasher, in its rated R, it's like it's like you know, it's got like it's It's not for young, it's not you know, it's meant for like adults and it's meant to be really scary, justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: but they do the psycho thing. Like they don't show any of the violence hardly at all. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: It's always like out of scene or f blurred or it's like the perceived violence is justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: what this movie does, and so they don't play up that torture element, that gross element that I do find very off putting and kind of like lax artistry and maybe wants me to coming back to it, you know, kind of thing. Like I'm not as interested. Yeah, like all the Rob Zombie ones, pfft, get outta here. Not interested. justin: It's almost like like shock factor, as opposed to seeing like somebody lose a limb and there's blood spraying everywhere, that doesn't do it for me as opposed to something that's like really creepy and like unsettles me and makes me feel like ugh. Zach Wheeler: It's like almost if if the if the movie can let your imagination go someplace, it's gonna be worse than whatever they put on the screen for you personally. And so I think it works to its advantage. justin: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Zach Wheeler: Okay. What about John Carpenter? Are you a John Carpenter fan? justin: it depends in what capacity John Carpenter is a director, as a writer, as a composer, 'cause he does all three. I don't know. I'm not I'm not like I'm Zach Wheeler: I would say more as a director. justin: not a massive like John Carpenter fan. I feel like I outside of Halloween and Halloween two, I I couldn't tell you what he's done. I mean I've probably seen more of his movies, but I've seen this movie multiple times. And that's really my only familiarity with them. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. I mean he's obviously like known for horror, right? Like the horror stuff. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: But I I I the only movie I've really seen of his I've you know, I think he's got so much stuff like in the Zeitgeist, I guess. You've seen like bits and pieces of Escape from New York or Christine or something like that, Big Trouble in Little China, justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: all that stuff. but the only one that I've actually really sat down and spent time with is The Thing. I don't know if you've ever seen that one. With Kur yeah, justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. The Zach Wheeler: The Thing is probably the only movie I've ever spent time with, and his direction style is very interesting. It's almost like because like everything he does is pretty low budget. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and it's almost like they were like He's so famous and he's so revered. Yet they just like either he didn't want it or they're like, nah, you don't get a budget. You just never get a budget. So justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: everything you're gonna everything that you make is gonna to some level look like it's filmed on a handheld camera. justin: Sure. Zach Wheeler: Like and I just find that really interesting watching his movies. Cause justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: I'm like, he's like so revered and people love his work so much, and you realize it's really definitely not about like the equipment quality that they're using in these films. justin: Yeah. Yeah yeah. No, you're exactly right. And I mean I would I would be curious 'cause I don't know when when exactly the horror movie genre started. 'cause I mean like, you know, obvious obviously Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: like we had Alfred Hitch Hitchcock, in like, you know, other people like that before movies like Halloween the thing came out. So like I wonder if it was just an era of Hollywood that you know big studios were not ready or willing to pump in a lot of money, resources and stuff into horror movies because it wasn't proven yet, right? Like obviously Halloween is a wonderful example of this kicked off a massive franchise. I mean I when you look at Wikipedia, Halloween Halloween, there are hang on thirteen Halloween movies. Thirteen! Zach Wheeler: I was saying is it nine, nine thirteen movies? Wow. Yeah, it's wild. justin: Yeah, thirteen, right? Like this and like over the course of what, forty years or something like that? However many years. So I mean like clearly at the time when this movie was made, in nineteen seventy eight or whenever, you know, yeah, it's it's labeled as an indie movie, so maybe that just it wasn't proven yet, so maybe that's why that 'cause I do agree that there's There is a lot to be desired with production quality and things of that nature. That had he had a bigger budget, I wonder if it would have been a little bit different. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, well like it it is interesting 'cause obviously like Psycho is before this movie, right? You justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: know, all the so the they definitely had that genre. I found it was really interesting 'cause I was trying to think as we were trying to look at doing some classic movies for the Halloween month, This is like the first movie that like anyone thought, you know, we should place a movie around Halloween. Which justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: is crazy to me. I'm like, was Halloween just not as big a deal back in the day? Like, it's just so I don't know, it's like it's like a top three holiday nowadays. And justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: it it just the fact that it took till nineteen seventy-eight to even think of placing a movie around that holiday is crazy to me. justin: Yeah, yeah, it really is. Zach Wheeler: It's like that, huh? All right. justin: So now that we've kind of kicked off kicked Zach Wheeler: Untapped. justin: off some of it, why don't you hit us I don't you tell me, 'cause I know you don't have everything in front of you, but do you have your your patented good. Zach Wheeler: good. Yeah, I got it. You're good. justin: Yes. Let's hear your your plot summary. Zach Wheeler: Alright, here we go. Plot summary for Halloween An imprisoned young man, given up on by the system and his doctor, escapes to return home, looking to recreate the last night as a free youth. justin: That's really good. You know what? That could work as like a genre spanning plot summary. Like that could be inspirational, like find yourself movie, or it could be a slasher movie. That's real good. Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: Bravo, bravo. Zach Wheeler: I know. I was trying to I was like what angle can I do this at? I'm like, I'll just I'll go from Michael's angle, you know? He's just he's he's been given up on, you know. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: The system's given up on him. His doctor clearly is like giving up on him, you justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: know? So he just he's just looking to return home and re recreate his youth, you know. justin: He wants yeah, he wants to get his life back. He's taking things into his hands. Zach Wheeler: Exactly. It's inspirational. justin: Yeah. So plot summary out of the way, 'cause you Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Let's talk about podcast structure real quick. Before we get we're gonna compare some notes which we're already doing, right? And getting into then we'll go over our superlatives and finally we'll rate whether or not we think Halloween is a classic. The one note that I had We kind of already touched on it was about the sequel stuff. like how it's been able to last for almost fifty years is justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: just crazy. I don't know what your thoughts are about that, but justin: This, I'll be honest with you, this this was a tough one for me. on the one hand, and I'm gonna apologize in advance, I'm gonna rip this movie to fucking shreds. Okay. On the on the one hand, Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: you have a piece of cinema that was very novel for its time. It paved the way for horror movies for decades to come, right? On the other hand, it is incredibly It's it's aged incredibly bad in a lot of areas. I think it has objectively compare and let me say this by modern standards, objectively I think it has some pretty bad writing, some really bad sound design, which going again, but was probably due to like budget concern budget limitations, acting, the horror aspect of it, like the violence of it. I think we've had this discussion before, but just because you know something diff It first doesn't mean that it did it the best. And I I I think we Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: we have watched a lot of older movies that have absolutely stood the test of time from tons of different aspects that are even older than this movie. Stuff that's dated back to like the 40s and the 50s. and I mean, like, you know, in its defense, it's an indie movie from the late 70s, and on top of it, it's a horror movie. But I feel like I feel like nostalgia plays a very heavy role for why this movie has has such a huge legacy for people. and I'm very curious to get your thoughts on some things because I think a really, really good indicator of this is Somebody who's never seen this movie who is watching it today for the very first time. So my Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: wife watched this movie with me. Shocker. For anybody that doesn't know my wife, she does not do violence, she does not do horror. She hates it. She watched this movie in its entirety, and she said it was not only not scary in any regard, which is pretty surprising coming from her, but she thought that it was. quote unquote really bad and she asked me to say that. She said, tell your podcast that I thought it was really bad. But you Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: you had never seen Halloween before, right? Zach Wheeler: No, this was my first time. I mean, again, this is the kind of movie that it's so ubiquitous that you've seen it without seeing it. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: You know, Carly watched it with me too. So this was one of the ones that we have both our wives watched. and she thought it was okay. Like she was okay with it. Like n no negatives, no positives, no real opinion on it at all. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And she well so she had no idea about like any of the plot, right? Like in the beginning sh when you have the first person perspective of Mike Myers as he's murdering his sister, as justin: As a child. Zach Wheeler: a child. like I my wife did not understand that it was a child. She's like, why are their hands so small when they're coming? You know. Like justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: that's like how like little she knew about this movie, where I knew like the whole premise justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: of this movie. I think some of the premise ages better than other elements of it as they get into their sequels. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: But yeah, I don't know. Like I found myself with this movie I I struggled. There was elements I did like of it, and I can see why it was so popular. I mean, it was made for $300,000 and it made $70 million at justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: the box office in 1978. So just crazy successful. And I think why they keep making sequels, yes, there's nostalgia for sure, but also I think they think It made 70 million and it was 300,000. It was super profitable. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: It's established IP now. Like keep chugging along, keep trying to capture that. And I would say with diminishing returns and dilution to the brand. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: It has they have never been able to really do it. I think a couple reboots have been successful. I think what like Halloween 2000s or H2O or whatever it was called justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: was successful. The first, you know, most recent reboot trilogy was semi-successful where they just basically ignored everything else except for the first movie. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yes I think like Like they've been able to capture it a little bit, but then they just immediately go to the places that just kind of What's really interesting about this first movie is it's devoid of lore. Like a ton of lore, right? It's just Mike murders his s Mike Myers, Michael Myers, I should say. Not Mike Myers, poor Mike Myers. Michael Myers murders his sister, and then he gets imprisoned and then he gets out of prison and he just goes back home and he gets like he sees Lori and he's like, I'll do more murdering And that's like it, right? It's like doesn't have a ton of lore and it just gets bogged down in the lore of evil and supernatural and is Lori his related to him? Is she not related to him? Is and all this stuff like is just not not in this first movie, which I think works to its advantage. And justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: it just gets just yeah. It gets just worse over time with the se more and more of these sequels come out. But I did not hate the movie, so I'll be curious when we start comparing things. I actually thought it was fine. justin: Yeah. I think Yeah. Yeah. It's and maybe I don't know, maybe because like Zach Wheeler: I hated the opening scene. The the first person crap. Yeah. justin: With where he murders Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot that I'll pick apart later on. but I will say this. I know at the time it was extremely novel, like I said, right? Like My f my father Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: to this day still talks about how he saw this movie when it was in theaters when he had to have been like twenty in it or maybe in his early twenties. and he was terrified of it. And this was a dude who was like Mr. Star athlete, he lifted weights, he was a big muscular man, and he was terrified of he said he was afraid to get in his car and drive home after leaving the theater. Like he was that Zach Wheeler: Ha ha. justin: scared. And I think also too, right, like You know, there's a scene Where Lori goes across the street because she can't get a hold of her friends, right? Because they're all Michael had just killed all of them. She's walking through the house and it's pitch black, and you're like sitting there wondering, like, okay, what are what are you doing? Why are you walking Zach Wheeler: Internal. justin: why are you walking through this house by yourself? Right? But then you think about it like this was probably the very first movie to actually do that scene. It has become extremely cliche now. We watch stuff now and we're like, why would you ever go in this house? It's pitch black and you can't Get a hold of your friends, like, what are you doing? Right? Screaming at the character, like, you big idiot. But Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: this at this point, that was the very first time it ever been done, probably. I'm I'm probably taking a guess, but Zach Wheeler: Hmm. I also think the novelty, I don't know if novelty is the right word, but like maybe ignorance or you know just like being what's what's the word I'm looking for, Justin? when you're like you just don't know, so you're fine. Right? Naive, justin: Yeah, you're naive. Zach Wheeler: right? Like I think back in seventy eight Right. You know, we didn't have true crime. So you're not listening to all the stories and all the murder and all the things that happen in real life with real horrors and real evil that happens in our world today. The media isn't shoving it down your throat. The podcasts they don't have. They don't have the television series, the true crime series. They don't have like this culture of crime and telling us about crime. Right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Maybe they had local crime stories on the local news about like, I don't know, like The the purse snatcher of the West Village or whatever. But like it they didn't have it wasn't so ubiquitous across everything and just inundated with it. So when you see this for the first time, it's like not even occurred to you that someone would put on a mask and stalk you and justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: then murder all your friends and then try to kill you. Like it just hasn't even occurred to you. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: in nineteen seventy eight that this is even a thing that would happen. And justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: so you seeing that for the first time, we'll be like, this has just unlocked a whole new world of horror for me. We're on you know, today we're like lock every door, put you know, girls are putting their keys between their fingernails in a parking lot or between their knuckles in the parking lot 'cause they're so scared of always of being a victim. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And r Rightfully so. Maybe we we have too much exposure, so you know, I think statistics wouldn't be you know, not back up all the fear that we have out there for it, right? But I think the anxiety of it is so heightened now that this is novel compared to reality, where maybe at the back then it was not justin: Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely agree. I think that's that's that's a wonderful point as to probably why this was so groundbreaking at the time. Cause people had never heard of this. I I remember seeing in high school the strangers. And I remember being terrified by the strangers. And they're like, 'cause Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: you were home. And I was terrified of that. Like, what the fuck? You mean somebody could break in my house and just murder me for no reason? But now we watch Netflix documentaries and we see, you know, news posts that there's serial killer's done this and we get all of the disgusting details. We get to watch five episodes as to how they killed their victims, and it just becomes normal to us. But I think Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: back then this was like you say, it was had never been done before. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Any other final thoughts before we start getting into the movie itself? justin: No, let's crack this nut. Let's do it. Zach Wheeler: All right. Alright, so we're gonna go through our categories. We'll do best scene, best character, worst character, age the best, age the worst. what are they talking about? WTF are they talking about? what would b be a sequel or what would happen the next day? justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: we can literally answer all those questions because they have a thousand sequels and they have the second the next movie literally starts where this one ends. justin: Hmm. Zach Wheeler: But and then we'll end with hot takes and nitpicks, and finally we'll rate whether or not we think this classic, this giant of the horror genre of whether or not we think it is a classic. Alright, let's start off with Best Scene. I have my first nomination is just The scene of the girls walking home from school chatting justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and then Michael like stalking them in the background as they're walking justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: and like only Lori sees them and you know it's it's just it's I thought while the ADR might not be the best in that scene, I thought the it was a good kind of introduction to Michael and and and it it left you a lot, you know, like, what's what's I mean, you know what's gonna happen, but you're like, when's he gonna you know, when's he actually gonna act, right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I think it just kind of builds the suspense. justin: Absolutely. Yeah, I I agree. 'Cause it I think a lot of if you think about like the majority of this movie is scenes like that where he's stalking and he doesn't actually start killing people I think until like the last like the third act. and Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: up until then it's just Lori kind of getting creaked out 'cause she's like, he's outside, he's watching me or he's following me and yeah, I there's there is a lot of that creepiness that It gets kicked off in that scene. I think it's a it's a good one. Zach Wheeler: And then I basically skipped the rest of the movie and went straight to the end when Lori is is getting chased by Michael. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: And and he keeps like waking back up, right? She keeps stabbing him somehow and he keeps getting back up. And so I thought that was, you know, it's like the climax of the movie and justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: it's probably the most, you know, unrelenting. So that that was good. It was a good ending. justin: Yeah. He's he he gets stabbed and he's gotta take like a little power nap to Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I know, I'm like well it's in my nitpicks. I'm like, why is he do have like a recharge battery? Like what's going on? Like, why does he pass out every time you stab and then just go get straight back up? It's just justin: He's just sleepy. He he's n he's he spent too much time away from the hospital where he probably got to take a bunch of naps and he's he's gotta lay down for a minute. I only had one scene, but it's by far my favorite scene of this movie. after Michael kills Bob in the kitchen and he goes back up to Linda and he he opens Zach Wheeler: yeah. justin: the door and he's wearing the the bed sheet and he looks like a ghost. But he he with Bob's glasses Zach Wheeler: With Bob's glasses on. justin: on and Linda's like so confused, but it's just I don't know, it's just funny. I like I think Zach Wheeler: Ha ha justin: it kind of feels that place in a little bit. But it's also maybe Michael has a sense of humor, 'cause he absolutely could have just kicked that damn door in and just, you know, walked towards her and killed her, but he decided to have a little fun with it. And he put he put a sheet on himself. well that's my favorite. Zach Wheeler: I know it i that is a good scene. That was probably the most interesting murder, right? Like the most interesting, you know. justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Cause everything else is like he's hiding and then he jump scares her and that one is just like straightforward. And it's kinda goofy, I agree. It's a good scene. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Give a final verdict. I don't have much to say. Like honestly, the movie's okay. It's just very generic. There's not a lot that happens in it. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: You know, I I think he's very creepy. I think I have a lot more interesting things to say in age the best and age the worst and nitpicks than I do like necessarily be like, this scene was incredible. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I thought, yeah, they were good, you know, it's like they do the the they do the standard horror slasher teen babysitter thing. Well yeah, it's good. It's fine. justin: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's that's that's what you can summise this movie out to is it's less standout scenes and more of the collective, I think. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, the vibe, for sure. Alright, well, let's just pick a scene. Let's go with let's go I you what I'm gonna you convinced me. Let's go with the ghost scene. I think it's it's goofy and it's kinda fun. It's creative. Yeah. justin: That can be that can be the thumbnail. the go the ghost with Bob's glasses. Zach Wheeler: So I think we have like for best character, I think there's like a few contenders. So justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: I think you have Lori, right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I think you can skip all of her friends. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: We'll get to them in a second. I'm not sure I would include Loomis, Dr. Loomis. He's kind of over the top. justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And then I think you have Mike Myers Michael Myers himself, right? So justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: as as just like a best character in, you know, design, maybe, right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Super creepy. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I get it why Jamie Lee Curtis like became pretty famous after this movie though. She's good in it. justin: Yeah. No, she is. I I had her down as my best my favorite best character. it's it was kind of jarring seeing on like the title card introducing Jamie Lee Curtis, right? Because she's just a megastar now, but I mean, yeah, she's great. there's really I don't know, not that she had a mountain of competition in this movie. not even a molehill, but Zach Wheeler: No, that's the thing, like she she clearly stands out, right? Like justin: Mm, mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: she is she's the only one who doesn't feel like she's acting. justin: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. One hundred percent. Zach Wheeler: And she's only nineteen in this too, so she's getting started right away with the, you know. justin: Yeah, I know. Zach Wheeler: I mean, she's got a famous dad, obviously we covered him on justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and a famous mom, but we covered them on Subluck It Hot. So justin: Mm, mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: so she's, you know, been in the been around the industry and had probably the best opportunity to develop that craft early. justin: Sure. Zach Wheeler: but yeah, she stands out for sure. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I I'll give it to her. I Lori's the best character. I think Michael Myers is a great design. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: He doesn't do a whole lot other than stand. And justin: Yeah. Or walk. Zach Wheeler: yeah. justin: But he catches everybody. He by walking. Power walk. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, right. He's a power walker. justin: Lori, Jamie Lee Curnis by far, I think, on best character. Zach Wheeler: Alright, let's get into the let's get into the worst characters. Yeah, yeah. justin: I've got here. I've let me let me plead my case first, because I know I know you're I know what you're going with. But I I s I s I see Zach Wheeler: Okay, you think so? justin: Lori's friends and I raise you Dr. Loomis. Not not by his acting, by his character. So Dr. Loomis, he's treated Michael since he's a child. he knows how much of a danger Michael is, right? He I mean he's literally a a a proven animalistic murderer. I think Dr. Loomis says as much. but he is so terrified of Michael that when he sees Michael on site, he unloads his weapon into Michael. Doesn't try to talk him down. Zach Wheeler: He's justin: That's how terrified he is of Michael, right? Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: So when Michael escapes the hospital. His grand plan is not to call the fucking FBI or the state police or anything of that nature, right? A serial killer, well I guess not a serial killer, but a murderer on the loose who is mentally in right. Zach Wheeler: No. A psychopath on the loose. Mental patient on the loose. Yeah. justin: he just gives the local sheriff a heads up and then proceeds to just camp outside Michael's house in the hopes that Michael will come home. He doesn't know. I mean, like, sure, they see that there's, you know, stuff in Michael's old house, but it's not entirely clear that like Michael is here and he's using this as his home base. He just hopes that's where he's going. I think. Zach Wheeler: Well that and y and then he literally tells the the chief, he's like, don't tell anyone 'cause if you tell anybody, they're gonna like, justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: you know, have an opportunity to defend themselves or whatever. I don't even know like what his logic is. Like, don't tell anybody. He's like, justin: Yeah, exactly. Zach Wheeler: We can't we you you know, everyone will see him and then we'll never find him or something like that. And I'm like, What? justin: Yeah. I just he is Dr. Luvis is grossly incompetent when it comes to security and like the safety of other people. he gets my he gets my worst character, just based off of that. Zach Wheeler: See, I had my worst character as the school bullies. They were their justin: Mm mm Zach Wheeler: dialogue and acting is so terrible. justin: And it's really bad. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I also had Mike Michael Myers' sister who gets murdered in the beginning. Her death justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: is like just no, wa aw It's so bad. justin: no, Michael, no. You Zach Wheeler: So bad. justin: could Zach Wheeler: That opening scene, like new category, worst scene, just awful. I was like, my god, we are in for a long road if this is what we are I'm like, this justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: is a short movie, but Jesus. Jeez. justin: Yeah. That scene is it really kicks the tires, doesn't it? Zach Wheeler: Yeah. I mean the friends are terrible too and the acting is is a a little Like the s th the the line when I think it's Annie that says it, but she's like just we'll get to the age the words cut the dialogue in there. But like she's like, Slow down, don't you know speed kills? And I'm like, my god. Just justin: I think yeah, that's that that indie budget right there coming at ya. Zach Wheeler: It's like it's clearly a grown ass man trying to write for teenagers, right? Like justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: don't know how the dialogue works. But justin: Hm. I I like the the bullies. I d didn't even cross my mind, but you're exactly right. And and even Zach Wheeler: They were so bad, right? Like they're like in unison. Like what are they making fun of this kid for? For believing in the boogeyman or whatever? You're like, wait what? justin: I love how he I forget his name, the little kid's name, but he has a pumpkin and they push him down onto his pumpkin. It's just classic cliche bullies. Although there is like a moment of like instant karma that you think's gonna happen when one of the bullies runs away and Michael grabs him and you're like, get him, but then Michael lets Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: him go like a bit. But yeah, child murder probably not one thing that they wanted to portray in this movie. But yes, Zach Wheeler: No, yeah. justin: the bullies I think they're pretty bad. I like that I like that option. Zach Wheeler: There you go. Alright, let's get to age the best. justin: Mm. Montchicagraph. Zach Wheeler: I had I had we'll get to it in Age of the Worst too, 'cause you you brought up the sound design and the sound effects if you call them that in this movie. But I do think the main score, like the theme, the d you know, it's pretty good and iconic. justin: Mhm. Yeah, for sure. I it's I think anybody if you've never seen the movies, you know that's the Michael Myers theme. It's Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: yeah, it's completely iconic. Like we talked about with the good, the bad and the ugly. Like it is Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: a piece of music that has transcended time and, you know, barriers. I mean like everybody knows that that jingle if you Zach Wheeler: Yeah, it's almost used now just to represent horror, right? justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: Same with like the the good, the bad and the ugly. That's just like the West. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: It's like it's almost outside of this specific movie, yeah. And it's used in pop culture for sure. justin: It's good call out. I had just the creepiness of Michael Myers. Like he's Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: the original, like, shape in the distance staring back at you. so many of his scenes, like somebody will glance out a window and they'll just see him staring at them, and they'll blink or they'll look away and then he's gone, right? Like that that creepiness, I think that's what Less so of him like actually murdering people and just the creepiness of like some dude in a mask that you can't see his face, you don't know who he is, just staring at you from a distance. That's I Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: don't know. I feel like that thing that scares me more than Michael walking towards me with a coat hanger in his eye. Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: Hmm. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, I had the like i to piggyback off that, I had the Mike Myers mask, just the mask itself, right? justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: Like it's it's you know, I think we would be remiss We didn't talk about it, but it's a William Shatner, you know, Captain Kirk mask that they cut the holes out and painted white or whatever, right? I did justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: write down like I'm like, I wonder if like anyone gets royalties for this, 'cause they just picked this up at a store, and I learned later that William Shatner did sue them. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Which I'm like, but he what does he have the right to that mas a Captain Kirk's mask? Like justin: yeah. I mean you gotta put a fight up though, right? Like if somebody took a mask of your face and you became synonymous with evil, like would you be cool with it? Like yeah, put my face on Zach Wheeler: it does not look like him in h are in his defense. I just think he's getting money. I don't think he's being William Shatner about it, that's all I'm saying. I think I justin: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: think the company that owns the mask, that made that produced the mask has more of a right justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: to any royalties, but whatever. justin: Very fair. Zach Wheeler: But I think the mask is great. I think justin: yeah. Zach Wheeler: also too the piggyback off that, the breathing, like him breathing in the background when he's, you know, you justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: kind of over his shoulder, you hear him coming, you know, that the all that adds to that creepy vibe of him. justin: Yeah, absolutely. this is gonna sound like small potatoes, but honestly, the runtime. I loved it. Hour and a half. Man, I love it. Maybe Zach Wheeler: Yep. Yeah, great. Breezy Breezy and easy. justin: maybe that's just the dads in us, you know, but Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: I don't know. An hour and a half runtime on a movie like this, it just felt like a breath of fresh air. I was like, This is awesome. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, horror does that really well. Yeah. justin: Kinda it gets and when you think about it, right? It like spikes your heart rate and then by the time you're done watching, like you're exhausted. So hour and a half, like I'm good. That's I don't need more than that. Zach Wheeler: I agree. No, I l I I had I agree with you. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: I had just low budget horror. Like I just love that that is still able to be around. Like it's justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: like the one genre that's left that's like okay to be low budget and it forces creativity and things to be a lot more interesting. So justin: Sure. Zach Wheeler: I I think low budget horror as a in general is is is aged really well. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I also had no cell phones in the movie ages well with it, right? Like it like there's drama because they can't contact each other well, right? But like you're on cell phones the whole time and you know, the whole city would know about my wires and you'd be able to call nine justin: Yeah, very Zach Wheeler: one one easily. Like the no cellphones of it all. justin: Yeah. My God, Mike Mike Myer Michael Myers would not survive ring doorbells. he would be he would be caught immediately and shared all over Zach Wheeler: No. justin: the neighborhood app. Like who is this person? Zach Wheeler: Yeah. So the lack of technol nineteen seventy eight's technology. It's like a great time frame. It'd be justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: interesting 'cause I haven't really watched a lot of the new ones and I wonder how they address that. Yeah, justin: Sure. Zach Wheeler: 'cause it's or they just ignore it, I don't know, but justin: Yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: and then I had Jamie Lee Curtis. She just ages great. I love Jamie Lee Curtis. It's good to see her young young Jamie Lee. justin: Yeah. I know. It is. It's like I don't know, looking into a weird mirror, seeing her young. 'Cause I I feel like everything that I have ever watched her in, she's just older. So going back and watching Zach Wheeler: Sure. justin: her when she's like a young child, it's just just weird. Zach Wheeler: You gotta you gotta check out nineteen eighties Jamie Lee Curtis. She is great in the eighties. justin: Mm. Mm. Zach Wheeler: Trading Places. Have you ever seen a movie with Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd? it's justin: Mm mm. Zach Wheeler: incredible. We'll have to do it for this podcast one day. It's it's a great comedy. and she's really, really, really good in it. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Smoking. and also too, I love True Lies. She's great in that movie too. With Arnold Schwarzenegger. justin: I've seen parts of true lies. Zach Wheeler: you you've never seen True Lies either, all the way through? justin: I've I haven't seen the whole movie, but I've seen enough clips with Arnold and like I've seen the entire scene where Zach Wheeler: Yeah, it's great. What the justin: she comes and dances in front of Arnold. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. Well if they add that one to our list too. She's it's that's a really good movie. justin: Mm, yeah. Zach Wheeler: Are any other age the best for you? justin: No, no, that's all I had. Zach Wheeler: Alright, get it get into the good stuff now. Age the worst. This movie, no. justin: Hmm. Yeah. The entire thing. I we already talked about the sound and audio. I feel like we don't need to beat a dead horse. It's really bad. I mean Zach Wheeler: It's terrible, man. No, it's we need to be the dead horse. It's terrible. So bad. justin: There's I actually had on here, 'cause I thought this was a pretty accurate way to describe it, but like some of the sounds during some of the jump scares were so bad, I'm pretty sure John Carpenter just got an electric keyboard and just slammed down on it. Zach Wheeler: No kid. I it is my biggest pet peeve coming out of this movie. Like yeah, like so one thing in my research I heard they screened the movie without the music. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And they were like, This movie sucks. It is not scary. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And they were like, Okay, our answer, 'cause these jump scares are just not scary without music, is just to make a really loud noise and shock you in the system. Like don't let the actual cinematography scare you. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: Don't let the concept scare you. We'll just you know, we'll we'll lull you in with like some quiet moment in the film and then just make a loud noise that'll jump make you jump. And like that will trigger your brain to be scared. Like I hate it. Ugh definitely justin: Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I I mean like from even like from just cheesy sound effects to Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: There's there's a lot of scenes where it's really difficult to hear people talking, or just to hear Zach Wheeler: Mm-hmm. justin: what they're saying, just 'cause it's the sound quality is so terrible, but I think just Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: sound and audio in general with this movie, outside of, you know, the Halloween theme that we talked about, I I feel like that Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: whole area has not aged well. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, we watched this on digital but apparently, like, back in the day the video I think it's been enhanced over time. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: The video was just terrible. Like you couldn't see shit at night in the movie. 'Cause they're they're justin: Yeah. Yeah. I believe it. Zach Wheeler: filming it on like the lowest budget equipment they can g they could get, right? Like justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zach Wheeler: There's no lighting in the movie. They're just using natural lighting the entire time 'cause they couldn't afford lights. justin: Mm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: So like some of it's not you know, they're working with the budget they have, but man, it is yeah, low quality lighting, low quality camera, low quality. I would say like even the cinematography is like not great. There's good there's good moments for sure, but it's justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: not like I'm like I don't say there's like anything cinematic about the way it's shot. It feels like very much an eighties horror movie, right? A seven ninety means. Seventy eight but early eighties, late seventies horror movie. Like it's just it's yeah. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. really the only other thing 'cause I I feel like just more generalities as opposed to like specific nitpicks, but just the death scenes in general I thought were really Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: they haven't age great, right? Like Annie and Linda, they're just so bad. I felt like I was watching like high schoolers that have never done this before. Bob's yeah. B I mean Bob's death Zach Wheeler: Probably probably had it. justin: scene wasn't much better. I mean and not that I want to see somebody like get tortured and like screw scream their head off. But I mean, I don't know. The death scenes are very yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, it does not look like they're it very clearly acting, right? Whether they're choking someone, it's like nothing feels real justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: when it's happening to them, right? You know. The they're Yeah, I agree. I I had like as age the worse, we've talked about the sequels and we'll talk about it a little bit more, but like The lore that they add in the later movies around who Lori is and her relationship with Michael Myers, like, why would you ruin this kind of randomness that is this element that this movie has around who his victims are? justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And I'm like, you ruined it by like, well, now it's gotta be like He's a a harbinger of Satan and he's like I'm like I just like that it's like it's just a psycho justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: randomly picking people 'cause they remind him vaguely of his sister. justin: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It makes it more terrifying that way. Like when you d when you Zach Wheeler: Yeah, it is. Much more terrifying. justin: try to make unnecessary links and s you know, motivations like, he did it 'cause of this, like then it starts to lose its allure of like, ooh, that's really scary that he just happened to see this girl across the street and thought, I'm gonna go after her. Yeah, I completely agree. Zach Wheeler: I had di I had the dialogue and the delivery of the dialogue. There's justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: so many cheesy lines. Like when justin: Mm Zach Wheeler: Loomis is in the field with his nurse wife, whatever she is, and he's like, The evil has been unleashed. You're like, my god. justin: Especially coming from like a goddamn psychiatrist like him, right? Like he didn't diagnose Zach Wheeler: I know. justin: that it's you know, he has split personality or whatever, like it's it's evil He's pure evil Zach Wheeler: It's the evil. No, it's the the dialogue is rough in this movie sometimes, for sure. justin: Hmm Mm-hmm Yeah Zach Wheeler: And then the last thing I had, Lori's outfit on the at school, those stockings. It's awful. Looks like a grandma. Get out of here. She clearly can be trendy 'cause when she goes and does the babysitting thing, she's in a much more trendy outfit. I'm like, wow, you she looks like she's real dumpy. justin: I think that should go that should Zach Wheeler: Why'd you put her in that? justin: go number one under Age the Worst, Lori's outfit. Zach Wheeler: Just her school outfit. But I'm like, what is going on here? justin: Mm, yeah. Zach Wheeler: Alright. WTF are they talking about. What do got? Okay, good. justin: I actually had one, which I feel like I never have anything, because I don't I don't do subtitles so I don't pay attention 100% all the time. But Jamie gets a prank phone call. and she calls it or sorry, not Jamie, Lori, called her by her actual name. Zach Wheeler: Sure, sure, sure. I hear good. justin: Lori gets a prank phone call from her friend, and she refers to it as an obscene phone call. Not that I don't know what the word obscene means, but I've never heard a Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. justin: prank phone call referred to as an obscene phone call. I thought that was kind of strange. I was like, what the fuck? so yeah, Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: I thought that was very interesting. Because 1970s shouldn't be too different from how we are today, but yeah. So. Zach Wheeler: No, no. I mean they use the word totally a lot, but justin: Yeah, they really did. I was kinda surprised by that. maybe more of Yeah. I was just about to say the same thing. How would you Zach Wheeler: again I think it's like an older it's an older man writing for y teenage girls, but yeah. justin: write a teenage girl? Totally Zach Wheeler: But the I had while I did it's not like I didn't understand what she was saying or like the point of it in the movie. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: But when Lori's in class and she sees like Michael Myers outside And then the teacher asks her a question and then so she gets some response about fate and destiny and blah blah blah and it's like supposed to be like, okay, look, we're telling you the theme of the movie. But I'm like, what the f fuck is this in clas like what the fuck justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: are they talking about in s in their school? Like, what is this subject? This book that they're reading where they're like I'm like an element of the world that is faked, just like earth and air. And I'm like, my god. justin: Ha ha ha Zach Wheeler: She's like what the hell are you talking about? And the teacher's like, Yep, one hundred percent, you fully understand this And I'm like What I'd be like, justin: Yeah. So maybe Zach Wheeler: This is the worst thing I've ever read in my entire life with some pompous philosophical crap. justin: Maybe maybe school was a lot more difficult back then and they had to do some really cool philosophy stuff. Hmm. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, yeah. But yeah, that was my one. I'm like, what the hell are they talking about? Like what justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: is really what are they really talking about? Like, how does this work in the context of reality at this school? Alright. Sequel. justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: So obviously there is a ton of sequels about this movie. justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: But I think for me, the one I you know, researching and learning a little bit about them, there's reboots, there's They delete sections of it, they redo it, yeah, whatever. It's just Michael Myers being Michael Myers and they for some reason they keep adding lore. I'm not interested in any of that. It's I'm like this movie's fine in isolation. justin: Sure. Zach Wheeler: I really think Halloween three is the most interesting sequel justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: for this movie. I don't know if you did any research on this. It's the justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: one that's Halloween three season of the witch. justin: No. Haven't Zach Wheeler: So it's the only movie in the series that doesn't have Michael Myers in it. The original idea after they did the first two, because the second movie takes place like directly after this movie ends. Like the opening scene of the second movie is the closing scene of this movie. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: So it's just basically a longer just makes the movie longer. But the Halloween 3 Season of the Witch, it's an anthology. They thought about making it an anthology series where they just tell new stories around Halloween every time, completely unrelated. justin: Hmm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And I think that sounds way more interesting and a lot more creative than just simply like, we're just gonna go back to the whale the whole time. You know? Basically make it an American horror story. Don't justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: make it The Mike Myers show, right? Like justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: the Michael Myers show, right? Like so I don't know. I think that sounds way more interesting and Halloween Season of the Witch did not do well. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And it looks like shit, I'm not gonna lie. But I've justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: never seen it. I don't know if it's shit or not. It just looks like shit. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Okay. Based on the cut the pictures and the trailer I saw it looks like crap. But so I think that's like why it didn't work out going forward. Probably if if it was equally as successful. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: But I think like a cool low budget anthology series centered around Halloween sounds like a really interesting idea and justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: a way more interesting idea than just dragging this thing out through the mud. justin: Yeah, I completely agree. Cause then you don't you make it less about Michael and more about just, you know, other creepy characters. in yeah, I completely agree. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: I don't really have I I think what I would like to see from a sequel, let's just take complete creative liberty here. Let's go let's go in the complete polar opposite direction of where it went. I wanna see Michael go to the hospital because he's been stabbed and shot more times than he knows what to do. Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: And let's see him fumble around with like, well, sir, you gotta take your mask off. And he can't speak because he's like, okay, man, blah, blah, blah, blah, And they're like, do you have any ID, sir? Like, no, blah, blah, blah, blah. And let's let's take it from like a more realistic perspective. And let's see if you Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: know the nurses get terrified, then they call the cops, and then I don't know. but yeah, I Yeah, Zach Wheeler: Yeah, just just Michael stumbling into the hospital. justin: exactly. Zach Wheeler: It's an opa it's a a prequel idea, it's just him shopping for his mask at the at the Halloween store and then you know. justin: be kind of fun. He could pull he could pull a an Anton from No Country from old men for old men and you know figure out how to go in and steal stuff. Zach Wheeler: Just doing his errands. justin: Yeah, doing his errands. I like your I like your Zach Wheeler: Just doing his errands, you know? justin: idea of I wish they would have yeah and done like an anthology Zach Wheeler: Continued with it? Yeah. justin: 'cause that I feel like that's I don't know. I feel like when anthologies are done correctly, they are phenomenal. And this would be ripe for really, really cool, creepy stories. Zach Wheeler: Well and it allows you to have misses and successes without diluting the successes of the past. justin: Sure. Zach Wheeler: Where I feel like so much now this all this I IP fatigue that we have where like Marvel is just diluting themselves, Star Wars is just diluting themselves. And justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: it's like if you make it kind of you take the brand and the creators and that's what's the the the combination of success and you continuously reinvent it, while probably a little more challenging justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: in a lot of ways. But it allows the successes to live on their own and the misses to kind of get washed away and and new opportunities every time a new movie comes out. So I mean I think I don't know. Seems more sustainable too, justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: but whatever. So Alright, let's get into some nitpicks and hot takes. justin: this is what it's all been boiling down to, Zachary. Zach Wheeler: Alright. Let's just do the first one that has to be said. It's been said a billion times. But like how does Michael Myers like know anything? Right? Like how does he it's even able to function in the world world, right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Like how does he drive a car? They bring bring it up in the movie, but it's like yeah, how does he how justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: right like how does he know where his hometown is? They said it's a hundred and fifty miles away. How does he know how to find his hometown? Right? Like he's justin: Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: stalking these girls. In his car sometimes, he shows up around a corner, like how does he know where they are at all times? Like how does he find him? Like he's not justin: Yeah. Maybe yeah. I no, I had this as one of my biggest nitpicks is just how does he know how to drive and how does he know how to get to r get around? 'Cause e yeah, as soon as he steals that car, he peels out like he's been driving for years. And then he drives around his hometown like he's the goddamn mailman. Like he knows every street. Zach Wheeler: Ha ha. justin: But it is I think it actually makes it better that they acknowledge this and they make comments about it. because Dr. Luma says he just has a throwaway comment. Maybe somebody at the hospital has been teaching him. And that's actually a really funny idea if you think about like some one of the staff has been taking this kid out and like, Okay, Michael, let's go drive today. And just I think I don't know, it is a huge He Michael driving in that car actually takes up a significant amount of time in this movie, and it is a huge glaring plot hole. And I I Zach Wheeler: Ha ha. justin: love it because it makes no sense. Zach Wheeler: Doesn't it makes literally no sense. He's was justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: like eight when he murdered his sister and went into the institution. justin: Yes, yes. But you're right. That i it's I feel like everybody has picked that specific point apart. It's low hanging fruit. but it's a really it's a really good one 'cause it's just funny that God. I had d kicking off the movie with your favorite scene when Michael goes and kills his sister. he goes in the back door. Their back door is literally wide open. I like I know it's his house, but like he wasn't there before. Yeah. But but Zach Wheeler: Yeah, it's a s it's the seventies too. Yeah. Or the sixties in that case. justin: I mean yeah, he wide door wide open. And like, I don't know, maybe maybe we have gotten way more distrusting over the decades as a society, but I you you're insane if you think I'm gonna leave any of my doors wide open. this was also a great point by my wife after he killed his sister. He didn't have a speck of blood on him. He's completely clean. Yeah. Just Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Just his knife had a little bit of blood on it, yeah. justin: just a little bit. but he was completely clean. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. So I ha in that scene, Michael walks up, right, and he sees his sister and some guy, justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: you know, on the TV, and then they start kissing and they go upstairs, and then he walks around the house a little bit, picks up a toy, picks up a knife, and then walks into a room, and they're like already done whatever deed they've done. I'm like, Pfft, that guy is not performing well. You know what mean? I was like justin: Yeah. He used record Zach Wheeler: She gets murdered and she's unsatisfied? What a terrible that was a bad night for her. justin: time. Also, he got off pretty well, right? Like he he got to go have fun and then he got to go home. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, right. Yeah. He had a great evening. Shameful evening, but great, yeah. justin: You would think that if anybody deserved Michael's wrath as a child, you know, it's it would be the sister's boyfriend, you know, like sister's boyfriend. Zach Wheeler: Sneaky worst character, just unsatisfying performance and just bells out of there. justin: yeah, maybe we should add him under worse characters, because he Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: I had so when Amy and Lori are driving around in the car and they pull up to they're smoking the blunt and they pull up to her dad Who's the sheriff? because somebody had just broke into the hardware store and they stole a mask, a rope and knives. We know Michael broke into the hardware store and stole this. Wikipedia confirms it. But when they pull up, the alarm is going off like it just happened. but Michael has been tailing them in his car for d I don't know how long, but like at least ten Zach Wheeler: Ha ha. justin: minutes at that point. So how the fuck did he get in there and steal everything? Doesn't make any sense. Zach Wheeler: Maybe he dropp maybe he lost his mask and had to go get new one. justin: It could have. I mean, I I remember as a child watching this movie, and not that we are supposed to understand anything as children, right? But I remember thinking like, does he have like powers? Because like he seems to get from one place to another very quickly. Zach Wheeler: Yeah, exactly. justin: and it just doesn't make any sense. Zach Wheeler: Well, I mean gets stabbed, he gets prodded, he gets everything, you know, so much happens to him, gets shot a billion times, and he just walks away. Like, you know, it's like justin: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: y there is like By the end of the movie you are asking yourself, like how? How is this happening? You know, 'cause there's no indication that he's supernatural. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Except for just this like inability to be hurt by anything, basically. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And you're like, you know, except he just has to do a little power nap recharge and then he's like good to go. justin: Yeah. I I I have a list of everything that happened to Michael. He so stabbed in the neck with a sewing needle, stabbed in the eye with a coat hanger, stabbed in the midsection with a knife, but probably hit vital organs if you would think about it. Shot at least six times. and then he fell out of a window two stories. So Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: Loomis states at one point that he's pure evil. I think he says pure evil. He at least says evil, almost implying that he's not human. And I think I don't know if we're just supposed to accept that he is Not human. Yeah, but it Zach Wheeler: Yeah, like the kid from the Omen or something growing up or something like that. Yeah. justin: just I don't know. It it it takes away, not that there is a lot of realism, but it takes away the ounce of realism that was in here, that he's just a lunatic, but he's a he's a regular person, but he's, you know, mentally unst unstable and he's just killing at at random, but now he's like this demon who can survive anything you throw at him. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: so Big nitpick. Zach Wheeler: Well it seems like as he gets more injured his like heel his healing factor, whatever it is, gets faster. Right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Like he gets stabbed with a needle first and he's like out for a good minute. You know, she's able to go get the kid, she's able to like, you know, whatever. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And then then he gets stabbed with the knife and you know, he's laying on the floor but he gets up faster and then when he gets shot like six times and falls out of window, by the time they run to the window he's already gone. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Right? Like like his f his you know, his healing factor increases with with damage. They feed it feeds him. justin: His his his powers are getting stronger. My my last nitpick and this one, it just made me laugh. I hope it made you laugh. So the back half of the movie, Dr. Loomis, he's just waiting outside of Michael's house. He even scares some kids, right? Like, what the fuck? Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: What are you doing, Loomis? but he's sitting there all night. And then he just happens to look over and he sees the stolen car. Yes. And and then he he Zach Wheeler: the car that's been there the whole time. Ridiculous, yeah. justin: he he runs down the street like w what? It's so funny. but it just it just makes no sense. Zach Wheeler: No, it doesn't make any sense. It's like he's like his what you so you've just like stared at the house the whole time? You've not like turned around to see if he's come from other angles, or like what are you doing? It's like it's like justin: Zero. Zach Wheeler: it's like next it's like next door to him. He's like, there it is. That's crazy. justin: Yeah. Yeah. He has zero s situational awareness. like didn't Zach Wheeler: Yeah. justin: even look down the street. just insane. Zach Wheeler: I had the two, like the one that bugged me was like the kid had like no idea what the boogeyman was. And he's like, Is it you know, is it real? What is the boogeyman? You know, all that kind of stuff And I'm like did this movie invent the boogeyman? And justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: like, nah, it's been around for like four hundred years. I'm like, what the what little kid doesn't know what they're talking about? justin: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Mm. Zach Wheeler: I don't know. Well I was like, this is dumb. This weird element of this movie, another weird element. justin: I mean it's what he got made fun of by the bullies. They got like you scared of the boogeyman? so clearly he talks about Zach Wheeler: Alright. justin: it a lot, that kid. Zach Wheeler: So here's a hot take. For Lori, justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: like, is she better off that her friends are dead? Cause they were the worst, right? Is she but she might be better off, you know? Maybe that's my hot take. Like maybe Michael justin: Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. She Zach Wheeler: did her a favor. He cause he cause Michael follows her around all day. It's very clear that Lori is his fixation. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And then he murders her friends and like kind of just abandons her. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: to it like moves on from her to her friends and it's like really Annie who he's like stalking not Annie excuse me yeah it's Annie right the first one justin: Yes. Zach Wheeler: yeah who he's like stalking that night and like who he builds the shrine to his sister around, right? justin: Mm. Zach Wheeler: And so I'm like, was Michael like in his twisted mind like doing her a favor? He's like, yeah these people suck you know justin: Yeah. I think I think Michael was really looking out for Lori's future. 'Cause she was Zach Wheeler: Yeah, right. justin: she was an academic. She was very responsible with her with her schoolwork and her books Zach Wheeler: Okay. justin: and all the things. Her friends just wanted to party with boys. right? And Lori was just trying Zach Wheeler: Yeah, see. justin: to keep her life on track. So maybe Michael that was his MO. He wanted her to succeed in life and he got rid of the dead weight. Zach Wheeler: And he just, you know. So yeah, Michael's just in his own way trying to help out Laura. justin: Maybe, maybe we have this whole thing backwards and Michael is the hero of this story. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Well, he just misguided, okay? He justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: didn't know any better. He d his doctor had given up on him seven years ago. So justin: Exactly. He he had to take his life into his own hands and make a change. And he tried to help Lori do the same. There Zach Wheeler: Ha ha ha. justin: we go. Mystery solved. Hmm. Hmm. I Zach Wheeler: Yep. All right, let's I think I know your answer, but let's get into this. Whether we whether we think this movie is a classic or not. justin: don't think you're gonna like my answer because it's not really an answer, but I have one. Zach Wheeler: Okay. justin: Alright, I think it's it's tough. I feel like you you have to say yes that it's a classic. For me, I it's difficult for me to agree with it, but I think Zach Wheeler: Sure. justin: is it is it a classic in the sense that it laid the groundwork and helped usher in a new generation of horror cinema? Yes, absolutely. is it a classic in the sense of it's like one of the best movies of all time? Hard note. I think if you split it in between those two camps, you know. Yes. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Its influence is clear. Its quality as a movie is mediocre. justin: Yes. Yes. And especially I don't 'cause like I look at and again, comparison is the thief of joy, but when I think about a lot of the other movies that we've talked about on this list that we've said are classics that are just phenomenal movies, like this is not one of them. when Zach Wheeler: And it's nothing to do with age, right? Like we thought some of our older movies are really good. Like Casablanca was great. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I just Yeah, it's this movie's whatever, man. Dialogue is terrible. justin: Like like when I think about when I think about the monologue from and I forget the actor's name, but guess who's coming to dinner, when he's talking to his dad. Yes, Zach Wheeler: Sidney Poitiers? justin: when he's talking to his dad and he has that monologue about like how his father doesn't know him and his struggles, and it brings you almost to the brink of tears because it is so emotional. There is nothing in Halloween that even comes remotely close to having that level of impact, right? And so that's where, like, I don't know. It's legacy, sure, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's a classic in that aspect. but it just does it stand on its own two feet? No, I don't think it does. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. Nah. I talk about all the time, right? Like movies like have these qualities that ha have to come together to make it like a classic. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And like the writing, while maybe the plot is good and maybe novel for the time, it's like cliche now almost. but which a th th Not in the I guess the the movie's defense, right? It's novel it's just ca you can't compare it to modern context when you've seen so many things d derivative of this. But it's just the dialogue is not good. It is not good. It is bad. There's justin: No. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: some really bad dialogue in this movie and it's like really cheesy and corny. Like the the way the themes are tried to like just I'm telling you that fate scene in the ki in the classroom. I'm like, what the hell are they talking about? Like it's just trying to beat your head over with the theme. You're like you just roll your eyes 'cause it's like whatever. You know, like justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: I mean so to me like I couldn't get past that. The jump scare music, I hate it. I think it's it's just it's cheap, right? justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And Not to like knock on John Carpenter or anything, 'cause I do think but I kind of feel that way about the thing. People love the thing. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And they find I think with rewatches his movies have a lot more the little things that people like really grab onto in these movies. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: And if you're a film buff, you maybe you do, but I think when you first absorb his movie, the thing is boring as shit. It is like it justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: it's good. The performances are okay. But the thing itself is like not a very scary creature. It's gross. It's got great puppetry, justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: but like it it moves very slowly. It transforms like over a forty-five minute period it feels like one's doing it. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: And like it's just not It's like the ideas are they Carpenter really liked his ideas, but the execution it just felt very B movie, like a very much a B movie. justin: Yeah. Sure. Zach Wheeler: And I just feel it's kinda like what this movie this movie's like a a a good con good high concept movie, interesting, justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: but you put this in nineteen seventy-eight Steven Spielberg's hands, and it's a much different movie. justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: You put this in nineteen s you think about all the seventies movies that we've looked at, and you put them in some of these other directors' hands, and all of a sudden it's like feels cinematic. justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: This movie does not feel cinematic. It feels like it's made for television. justin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a really good way to put it. Or straight Zach Wheeler: Television actors. justin: whatever, what what would it have been back then? Straight to VHS? What did they have back then? Zach Wheeler: VHS in nineteen seventy-eight would have been like film reel. I don't know. justin: Stra straight to real Yeah. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: I just don't think I think you just you saw a movie in theaters and you're like, Alright, well I guess I'll never see it again, you know? Maybe it'll come on T V in ten years. justin: Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. I think that's really, really well said that you know this this idea, this movie in a different, more capable director's hands, not knocking John Carpenter, but yeah, it would have been a much different outcome. Zach Wheeler: I I just think yeah, you needed an a a scriptwriter to take a second pass at the dialogue justin: Mm-hmm. Zach Wheeler: and you needed a cinema photographer who you know, knew what they were doing better, right? And you know. And I think you would the movie would be much better for it. And you justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: take out those jumpscared crashes. I hate them. Just so cheap. justin: Anybody can get scared by just a a fucking train horn going off right behind your head. I mean Zach Wheeler: Yeah, my kid my kid was terrified this morning. We're getting in the car and someone drove by in a loud car and he like jumped. I'm like, Yeah, that was that's what this movie did. justin: You just had your first jump scare. Yeah. Zach Wheeler: Yeah. He was like, I don't like being outside, it's too loud. I'm like, buddy, just you're gonna have to get used to it, okay? 'Cause loud justin: Yeah. Zach Wheeler: noises happen. They scare you, but they're like cheap and they're it's not this it's not a real scare, you know. justin: Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Zach Wheeler: But anyways. Alright man. Well, so not a classic for me, for sure. I totally get the influence and like it's an important part of film history, but not a classic for me. justin: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think I agree with you. Zach Wheeler: Alright, well let's take it home. everyone, thank you so much for listening. you know, sorry that we didn't think this one was a classic. This is your favorite movie. I feel when you look at YouTube, this movie's like just all over the place. People are like, It's amazing, it's incredible, it's yeah, they John Carpenter. Like ugh, whatever. Alright. This is why, you know, we're we're not experts, okay? Sorry. justin: Yeah. This is yeah. Zach Wheeler: But so feel feel free to shoot us an email at popcornandpals at gmail.com and let us know how dumb we are and how stupid we are about this movie. also, you know, check us out on YouTube. it's Popcorn and Pals. pod and all lowercase all together one word. We just put the podcast up there in some shorts. I'm getting better. I'm getting caught up on my shorts. It's been a bit of slog. I'm getting caught up, which is good. justin: Ha ha ha. Zach Wheeler: in the meantime, again, everyone, thank you so much for listening and keep popping that popcorn.