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Alex Murdaugh's Damning Roadside 'Shooting-For-Hire' to be Heard by Jury · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. The judge has let the
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: jury go for their lunch recess, and just before they
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: walked out, he appointed juror I believe he said number
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: eight two six as the fourth person of the jury.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Now I don't know that the jury voted on the
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: fourth person. Did the judge select the four person for
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the jury, But that signifies to me that this case
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: is moving along, God willing nobody else gets sick and
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: falls off the jury. I mean, Nancy Grace, this is
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. We are
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: live at the courthouse and that jury has seen and
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: heard a lot of evidence today, including an in depth
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: description of the murders of Paul and Maggie. But first
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I want you to watch this. Now. There was a time,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: and I remember it well, when every statement and or
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: confession was not videotaped. And that's a real danger at
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: trial because it allows the defense to get a toe
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: in the door and claim that there was torture, that
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: there was a beating, that there was all sorts of
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: coercion in order to get a statement. But when you
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: have a video, there's no way to misinterpret what happened
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: in that interrogation room. So with that in mind, take
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: a listen to what happens when Murdog is asked point
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  Speaker 1: blank if he killed Maggie and Paul in our cut two?
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  Speaker 1: Did you kill Anie? Did I killed him? No? I
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: do not know who did it? Did you kill Paul? No?
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I did not kill Paul. Do you know who did
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  Speaker 1: it that I did not? Who did? Do you think
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: I killed Maggie? I have to go with the evidence
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and the factuation. You think I killed Paul. I have
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: to go with the evidence and the facts. Me and
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  Speaker 1: I don't have anything that points anybody else at this time.
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  Speaker 1: So does that mean that I am a suspect? With
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: everything that we've talked about, with the family, guns, the ammunition,
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  Speaker 1: nobody else's DNA. I have to put my belief aside
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  Speaker 1: and go with the facts. For Pete's sake. Man, didn't
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: you go to law school? He says, you think I
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: killed Maggie? You think I killed Paul? And the cop says, well,
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  Speaker 1: I've got nowhere else to go, and he goes, does
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: that mean I'm a suspect? Yes, that means you're a suspect.
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  Speaker 1: Murdog with me. Ronnie Richter South Carolina attorney for the
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: sadder Field family and other victims of Alex Murdog. He's
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: a partner at bland Rictor Law firm. Ronnie, thank you
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: for being with us. What was Murdog playing at there?
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  Speaker 1: Because you hear him say, wait, you think I killed Maggie?
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  Speaker 1: Do you think I killed Paul? And the guy says yeah,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: and he goes, well, does that mean I was suspect? Yes?
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: H E W L y E S That's exactly what
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: it means, Nancy. He knew he was a suspect. He
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: knew he was a suspect that the night of the murders.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're the guy that called nine to
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  Speaker 1: one one, You're the immediate next of ken, You're at
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: the murder scene. You're obviously you're a person of interest.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: What stunning to me is that this interview took place
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  Speaker 1: at all. He's a third generation solicitor, as his family
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: has held the seat for a hundred years. You got
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: to know the rule number one is that you don't
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: voluntarily offer statements to the police. And if you if
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: you rewind to the beginning of that statement, the purpose
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: they came there, that they came for that day was
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: really for Alex to interview them. You know, I want
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: to hear that one more time, Christine, if you don't
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  Speaker 1: mind playing where he says. Wait, wait, you think I'm
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  Speaker 1: a suspect? You think I did it? Did I kill
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  Speaker 1: my wife? That is a textbook classic way to avoid
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  Speaker 1: a question. Let's hear that one more time. Take a listen.
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  Speaker 1: Did you kill any Did I kill my life? Not
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: a dated? Do you know who did? No life? Do
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  Speaker 1: not know who did? Did you kill Paul? No? I
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: did not kill Paul? Do you know who did? Said
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I did not know who did? Do you think I
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  Speaker 1: killed made? I have to go with the evidence and
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  Speaker 1: the facultation. You think I killed Paul? I have to
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  Speaker 1: go with the evidence and the facts. Pay me and
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  Speaker 1: I don't have anything that points anybody else at this time?
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  Speaker 1: So does that mean that I am a suspect? With
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: everything that we've talked about, with the family, guns, the ammunition,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: nobody else's nay from my police aside with me. Founder
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: director of the Coal Case Research Institute, crime scene expert,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and you can find her at Coalcase crimes dot org.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum joined us. Cheryl wouldn't have been a great
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: time for Murdick to say, Hell, now I didn't kill them.
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  Speaker 1: We got to get out of this interview room and
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: go find who did kill them. That's what I would
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: have expected him to say. He should have lost his
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: mind if he were an innocent person. That Lieutenant Owens
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: is waste in any time at all on anybody. You
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  Speaker 1: know that he would just waste his time talking to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: him if he didn't do it. Nancy, you know what
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: this reminds me of Sarah's Hopard. Remember Fred when they
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: interviewed him, and Fred said, yeah, I think the person
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: entered from the second story, fine glass door, and then
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: we already knew the murder weapon was a long rifle.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: How in the world would somebody scale that with a
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  Speaker 1: long I mean, that's not what they would typically do.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: But Fred, when he first entertained that is the first
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: time we started to look at him as somebody that
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: might know more about this crime. Well, the same with
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: Alex Murder. You've been around the justice system literally your
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: entire life, literally, and you're gonna sit down with these
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: officers and not demand did they go do their job
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  Speaker 1: and find this person. It's baffling his attitude. Did he
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: interrupt the officer, I know that you know, and then
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  Speaker 1: causing David. I mean, he's very cavalier about the whole thing. Matxe.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Victor joining us lawyer for the Satterfield family. And
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  Speaker 1: as you will recall, Alex Murlog volunteered to represent the
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  Speaker 1: Satterfield family after the housekeeper and really the woman who
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: helped raise Buster and Paul fell down the steps at
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  Speaker 1: the Murlock home and there was a lawsuit and Murlog
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  Speaker 1: volunteer to handle it for the Sadderfields. Turns out of god,
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  Speaker 1: I think it was four million dollars and never handed
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: any of it over to the center Field children. Well,
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  Speaker 1: this is a lawyer that represented them. Ronnie, again, thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being with us. What do you make of
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdog's let me just say non verbal behavior, because
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  Speaker 1: if somebody asked me, did you murder your husband or
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: did you murder your son John David or your daughter Lucy,
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  Speaker 1: I would be doing a backflip. But he is sitting
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  Speaker 1: there with his arms crossed and his legs crossed. He
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: never misses a bait, he doesn't get upset, he doesn't
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  Speaker 1: even blink an eye. Well, what I interpret from that
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: is just the strength of the home court that he's on.
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  Speaker 1: You need to appreciate who he is and where he's located.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, these murders in Hampton County, in Colleton County,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: they are kings of the county. They ruled for a
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  Speaker 1: hundred years. They held that seat the solicitor's office, and
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  Speaker 1: he is very comfortable in that setting. He's comfortable in
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the courtroom at which he's in right now. When it
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: was time for the jury panel to be generally qualified,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: he showed up in the morning and acknowledged the jury panel.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, this is a guy who's there charged with
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  Speaker 1: double homicide, and he turns to the veneer and acknowledges them,
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  Speaker 1: waves to them as if they are his people. So
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: you're seeing someone who is very comfortable in his setting. Guys,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: the shift in evidence quickly goes toward the actual murders
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  Speaker 1: of Paul and Maggie. I want you to take a
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  Speaker 1: listen to a witness on the stand for the state.
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  Speaker 1: This is doctor Kenneth Kinzie, and he is talking about
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  Speaker 1: Paul still standing after the first shot, after the first
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  Speaker 1: gunshot wound in our cut five here along the floor.
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  Speaker 1: What you see, you're passive or ninety degree blood droplets.
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  Speaker 1: And when blood, you can tell a lot of them
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  Speaker 1: from the direction of blood by the way it strikes
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  Speaker 1: an object. Blood has a cohesive factor. It's viscous and
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  Speaker 1: you probably heard that term before with the motor oil
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  Speaker 1: for your car. It's thicker than water. And the thing
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  Speaker 1: that causes that blood droplet to change shape is the
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  Speaker 1: friction and the direction and how much force was used. Well,
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  Speaker 1: the ninety degree drop just is exactly that it's perpendicular
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  Speaker 1: to the ground. So these ninety degree drops right here
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  Speaker 1: tell me that Paul, who was standing there for a moment,
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  Speaker 1: can't tell you how long, but those drops were running
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  Speaker 1: down from that wound on his arm. And you can
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  Speaker 1: see these ninety degree droplets here here, and then they
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  Speaker 1: actually lead to the door. He's not moving very fast
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  Speaker 1: because most of them are almost perfectly circular or ninety degree,
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  Speaker 1: So I know he was moving slowly and I know
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  Speaker 1: he was standing in the middle of this room for
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  Speaker 1: some time after he the first shot gun. One wow,
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  Speaker 1: that is an incredible analysis by doctor Kinsey Crime Stories
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, and today we have with us one
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  Speaker 1: of only sixty International Association for ID certified blood stained
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  Speaker 1: pattern analysts in the world, one of only sixty the
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: author of a visual guide to blood stained pattern Analysis
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  Speaker 1: blood Stained pattern Analysis for death and crime scene investigators.
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  Speaker 1: With me is Jeff Gentry. Jeff, it's a real honor
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  Speaker 1: and pleasure to have you on today, and I'm sure
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  Speaker 1: you have been studying the murdog testimony. But what doctor
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  Speaker 1: Kinzie just said, when he's saying it, it makes perfect
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  Speaker 1: sense in a moment later, sly White, what did he
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  Speaker 1: just say? Could you please explain how he can look
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  Speaker 1: at this incredibly bloody crime scene and tell us one
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  Speaker 1: Paul was still standing after the first gunshot wound, So
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  Speaker 1: his testimony was great. Mister Kinsey did a great job
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  Speaker 1: on the stand. He was nice and cool and collected.
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  Speaker 1: So what he's looking at is the patterns, and so
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that's what blood pattern analysis is all about. It's identifying
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  Speaker 1: patterns within sometimes a very big, messy scene. So he
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  Speaker 1: could tell that Paul was upright because these blood stains
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  Speaker 1: when he sustained that first gunshot wound, He's bleeding almost immediately.
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  Speaker 1: A shotgun wound is obviously very devastating, so it's going
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  Speaker 1: to cause trauma. So he's bleeding right away. It's it's
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  Speaker 1: falling from up high off the ground. That's what he's
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  Speaker 1: talking about when he says it's creating circular state on
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  Speaker 1: the ground. So it's individual bloodstains that he could tell
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  Speaker 1: were under the influence of gravity and they're being deposited
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  Speaker 1: on the ground. They make essentially circles on the ground.
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  Speaker 1: So we know he was upright for some period of time.
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  Speaker 1: We don't know exactly how long would white white, white
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  Speaker 1: white white. Jeff say, you're talking so quickly, it's like
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  Speaker 1: drinking from a fire hydrate. It's too much, too fast.
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  Speaker 1: I think what you just said in regular people talk
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  Speaker 1: is that due to the circular nature of certain blood drops,
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  Speaker 1: you are extrapolating that those are blood drops that just
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  Speaker 1: dropped down from the wound. It's not spatter from a
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  Speaker 1: high impact that goes all over the wall in a
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  Speaker 1: fine spray. It's actually blood droplets. Is that what you're saying, Yes,
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  Speaker 1: that's right. So he's looking at both the size of
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: the bloodstains as well as their appearance their shape. So
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: an impact, when you subject blood to force, say for example,
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  Speaker 1: a gunshot or a beating, it's going to break that
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  Speaker 1: blood up into little blood drops that are going to
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  Speaker 1: create little bloodstains, and in this case, there were some
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  Speaker 1: smaller bloodstains. We could talk about those, but these stains
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  Speaker 1: in particular, they're larger bloodstains and they're circular, so we
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  Speaker 1: know that there wasn't some contributing force that created those. Okay, wait,
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  Speaker 1: you're saying their blood drops like somebody has a nose
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  Speaker 1: blade and a drop of blood falls straight to the floor.
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  Speaker 1: It falls and it lands in a little circle, not
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  Speaker 1: a perfect circle, but a little circle as opposed to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: dipping your hand and spaghetti sauce and fling it to
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  Speaker 1: the wall. It has an elliptical shape based on which
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  Speaker 1: way you throw it. Would you agree with that, Yes,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: that's exactly right. It's a great description. Okay, Okay, So
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: the fact that it is Paul's blood because it has
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: been tested with DNA, so we know that there are
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: drops vertical drops on the floor of the kennel, which
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: means he was still standing. Correct, that's correct, That's exactly right.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: WHOA and then hold on, Jeff, oh please go ahead. Well,
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  Speaker 1: the other thing that he brought up was that there
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: was a footwear impression in the blood. So after he's
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  Speaker 1: depositing these bloodstains on the ground. He's probably making his
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  Speaker 1: way towards the door, trying to escape or maybe trying
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: to see, you know, the person who shot him, and
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: so he's making his way to the door before he
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: got shot again. So that is also really important because
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: it shows that this wound wasn't his fatal wound. He's
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: upright bleeding, he steps in his own blood, probably in
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: a panic, and then as he's exiting the door, he
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: probably saw his shooter. He probably saw, we believe, his
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: father shooting him for the second time before it happened.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, you said there was some kind of mark
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  Speaker 1: in the blood. What did you say? What was the
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: mark and the blood? I believe mister Kinsey said that
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: there was a footwear pattern that was in the blood
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  Speaker 1: that somebody had stepped in bloodstained after they were deposited
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: on the ground, and based on his description, it sounds
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: like it was Paul's shoe or footwear that made that impression.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: So he's stepping in his own blood as he's bleeding,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: trying to escape that room before he gets shot again.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you have been in the courtroom many times
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: when a murder trial will be going on. Has there
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: ever been a witness so great that you just wanted
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: them to keep talking? Absolutely? Absolutely, And this witness like
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: man I was phenomenal job at not just explaining everything,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: but explaining it in a way that the jury can
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: completely unders well. I was actually talking about, Jeff Gentry
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: because the way you described that about you know what,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: just to be sure. And then I'm going to go
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: to you doctor Michelle Duprie is joining US pathologist, medical examiner,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: former detective. I've got dueling books by experts, Hers's Homicide
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide. Could you go through that one more time,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry, And then I'm going to get doctor Dupree
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to weigh in on the actual wounds to Paul's body
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: and how that will coincide and fit in with your
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: analysis of the blood on the floor and what if anything,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: it may mean about the drops and about how you
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: believe Paul was moving toward the door. And please go
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: slowly for me. I'm just a lawyer. Absolutely, Nancy, thank
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: you so. Based on mister Kinsey's description and bourtroom, Paul
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: sustains the first gunshot wound while he's in the room,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: he's obviously several feet inside of the room. He sustains
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: a gunshot wound to the chest that was with the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: buckshot ammunition. So it's going to create multiple wounds to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the body at close range, and so those wounds are
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: going to start bleeding. We don't see the impact spatter
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: that you would in some cases, but it's more passive bleeding.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: So his heart is still beating. He's obviously starting to
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: go into shock. He's in a panic, and so this
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: blood is starting to drip out onto the ground. Hi, Chris, say,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: let's say the blood as he's talking about it. Okay,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: go ahead, please. And so as the blood is dripping
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: onto the ground, it's creating circular bloodstains. And then obviously
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: he's trying to make his way to the door at
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: some point because he steps in his own blood. So
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: he's standing there long enough to drip blood on the ground,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and then with his own shoe or own footwear whatever
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: he was wearing, he steps in that blood makes a
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: footwear impression, and then he makes it to the door,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: and we know he's still upright because of the second
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: gunshot wound and where it hit him. But my assumption
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: is is that at that point he's trying to escape
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: and he likely sees the person, probably his own father,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: as he shoots him again for the second time, that
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: fatal wound that pretty much exploded his head. Okay, to
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Duprie, as i mentioned, pathologist, medical examiner, former detective,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide joining us from
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: there in the jurisdiction South Carolina, she knows all of
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: these locations like the back of her hand. So, based
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: on what Jeff Gentry just explained to us, doctor Duprie,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: could you now overlay Paul's wounds that he sustained to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: corroborate what Gentry just said, Yes, Nancy, and that makes
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: perfect sense because the first shot that was fired's not
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: a fatal shot. We know that that one into the chest,
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: and we know that that's going to bleed almost immediately.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: That blood, as he mentioned, is going to drip down
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: and make those circular type patterns those we know were
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: the ninety degree patterns. That second shot, however, is the
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: one that entered that left shoulder sort of tangentially as
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Paul is beginning to move and he's slightly turning, probably
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: in order to get that tangential shot. That tangential shot,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the second one hits his left shoulder, goes up through
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the back basically of his head, not injuring the front
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: part of his face, but injuring the back of his
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: head and of course dislocating the brain. And that is
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the fatal wound which would cause him to immediately drop
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to the ground and move no more. Okay, Doctor Dupree,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: can you now explain what you just said as it
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: relates to Gentry's description of the blood. Yes, Because again
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: that first shot, which is not fatal, is going to
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: allow Paul to be standing. Paul is going to start
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: bleeding immediately. The blood is going to travel downward because
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: of gravity, and it's going to basically drip on the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: floor below Paul. As Paul begins to move slowly. Because
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: this was not a fatal shot, those blood drops are
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: going to continue to move toward the door. The second
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: shot is fired, and this is the one that is
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: the fatal shot. But because this is a significant injury,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: it is going to cause blood spatter to move forward
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and spatter on the surrounding surfaces like the door. In addition,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: that's going to cause more bleeding and it's going to
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: cause Paul to drop to the ground immediately, and basically
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: that is what would end his life. He would no
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: longer be moving. Wow, the way that you and Gentry
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: just explained it, it's crystal clear. And based on the
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: injuries Paul sustained, and based on the blood pattern, added
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to the trajectory of the bullet the path in which
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: it traveled, it is now deduced that the shooter was
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: in the feed room doorway when Paul was shot. They
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: can tell that based on the blood and the injuries
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: and the trajectory path of the bullet. Take a listen
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: to our cut six in your review of the crimes
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: in evidence, did you come to any conclusion about the
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: location of the shooter when that first buckshot blast struck
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: Paul in his chest. It would be hard to say exact,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: but I can say to a bare minimum, the breach
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: of the shotgun because I don't have the shotgun. I
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: don't know the length of the barrel kind of thing,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: or I could run it from the door. But the
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: breach of the shotgun where it ejects the shot shell
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: casing after it fires, was somewhere inside the door, because
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: it had it been on the other side of the
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: door of the shot shell would have been located outside.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: So depending on the link to the shotgun, at least
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: I can say the dejection port was inside the door
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: of the shell. Okay. And now this is what he
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: means by that. You can have a saw it off,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: you know, where the barrel is that long. You can
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: have a long and barrel. Then of course you have
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the butt, but the ejector it's what we're interested in
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: because he's talking about where the casings fell. Okay, Sheryl McCollum,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: a crime scene expert, explain why. This expert says, when
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Paul was shot, the shooter was standing in the doorway.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And this is very significant, Sheryl. It is significant when
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: that shell is exited from that weapon ejected, it's going
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: to go back about, you know, two feet from the right,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: so it's going to go right and back a little bit.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: So if it's inside that seaed room, the ejective port
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: was also inside that seed room. So if you're thinking
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: the barrel is anywhere from twelve to eighteen inches, like
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: he said, he can't he doesn't know for sure, but
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: you can pretty much tell from the wound in his chest.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: It was an assault off situation. It was probably an
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: intact rifle. So again you take the length of that barrel.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: This person was right up on Paul, but they had
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: hidden himselves inside that room. Okay, guys, I'm hearing in
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: my ear that we are now being joined by Nicholas
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: Reagan anchor reporter with live five joining us. Hey, Nicholas,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Nicholas, I bet you
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: could have heard a pine drop in that courtroom when
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: this came out. Nicholas, take a listen to our cut
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: seven about once the second shot was fired, Paul never
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: moved again. Listen. Once Paul received that second shot, he
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: never walked again. He never made any movement. Any movement
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: he made was involuntary and it was due to gravity
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: pulling his body down to the ground. When you sustain
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: an injury to your brain like that, that ceases all movement.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: So he was found outside the feed door. He fell
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: over forward after sustaining that movement. Some wounds are fatal.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Later you can actually see someone that receives a fatal
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: wound and they I've seen him run a hundred yards.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: They can move for a little while. This is not
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: that type of wound. Once he received this wound, it
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: ceased all movement and Nicholas o'reagan joining us. Nicholas, Now
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: we heard doctor Michelle Dupree put a little perfume on
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: the pig. She said that Paul's brain was dislocated, his
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: brain was down by his feet. What was the jury
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: reaction when that testimony came out? You know, you're right.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: This has been a day that has been very much
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: different to the days earlier in the week where the
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: jerry almost seemed to have gotten lost in some of
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: those very technical details. But definitely today the jury much
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: more attentive, much more focused, and you highlighted it there
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: one of those moments when the when Kinsey was mentioning
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: how that second shot to Paul was instantly fatal and
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: he fell just outside of that feed room door. It
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: was very quiet, it was very solemn in there, and
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: of course the jury was just honed in on everything
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: that Kinsey was saying throughout all of this, because he
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: was such an incredible witness, and he continues to bring
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: more and more both technical expertise but also in a
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: way that every day people came understand. So you nailed
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the you hit the nail on the head there when
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: you when you said you could hear a pin drop
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom, especially for that moment, you know. Ronnie
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Richter joining me, South Carolina lawyer, high profile lawyer, veteran
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: trial lawyer. Hey, he's representing the Satterfield family, Ronnie. It's
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: one thing for us to all discuss the angle, the
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: trajectory path, the what each blood spatter or spot or
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: droplet means, and what does it prove and where where
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: did the what was the ejection path from the shotgun?
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: But when I'm thinking about something that was just said
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: by a witness, no, actually it was by Jeff Gentry
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: out of Fresno. He saw the shooter, probably his father,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I couldn't help but think about my own son and
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: my own daughter, because that's what's happening here. And very often,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Richt, we get caught up and oh, what does
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: this blood drop prove? And what can I prove by
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the ejection path and the trajectory path and on and on.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: But these are real people. This is someone's son that,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: according to the state, turned around and saw his father
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: on the wrong end of a barrel. Yeah, Nancy Europe,
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: your reasonable person and I think what you're articulating is
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: reasonable doubt, and it is the first of many reasonable
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: doubts that the defense is raised in the case is Actually,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that's not at all what I was saying. That's not
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: at all what I was saying. I was saying the
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: shocking nature of turning and realizing it's your father, If
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it's your father, if it's your father, I can for
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: me still if I have a criticism of the state's case,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: and I think they're doing a fabulous job, but too
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: many dots, not enough lines. So I've yet to see
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: the connection that ties it back to Alex And I
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: think one place where the what about him being there
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: in the kennel, the crime scene about three minutes before
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: the murders, the gunshot residue on his clothes, in his hand,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: the blood on his steering wheel, the lying about his alibi,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: the intimidation of witnesses, the money motive, none of that
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: is connecting the dots for you. I don't know that
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: it's enough. I don't know that it's enough because you
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: have to overcome what you just said, that the thought
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: that someone would actually do that to their son, face
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: to face, close range gun under the chin blow the
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: back of his head off. And the question that still
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: lingers is why, you know. I get it, he's under
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: financial pressure. We uncovered those financial crimes, we brought forward
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: the evidence that led to many indictments against him into
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: his disbardment. So I'm very familiar with those financial crimes.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: But does financial stress lead someone to break so badly
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: that they literally blow their son's head off without any real,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: any real strife in that relationship. That is still a
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: bridge that I think the state has to cross. Okay
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: to Sheryl McCallum, I hate to break it to Ronnie Richter,
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: but I've prosecuted a lot of child homicides and the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: killer is the father and or the mother a lot
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: more than I even want to think about abuse, child molestation, sawomy,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: pimping your kid out, getting your kid high, beating your kids,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: starving your kid, killing your child. That I see it
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: every single day of my life. Maybe everybody else has it,
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: but I have, So it's not that hard for me
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to embrace the state's theory. Do you have an entire
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: system set up, entire agency set up because children are
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: abused by their parents. There's no question this happens all
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: the time. What is shocking here for everybody? It isn't
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: used to our world, Nancy, is it? Paul absolutely not
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: only solved shooter. He probably spoke to him White before
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: he was shot. Because Paul turned around, That's why he
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: was shot and kick so something got his attention. And
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: not only did he know who the killer was when
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: he turned to try to leave and get away, he
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: knew what was coming there. And there's the other issue,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Nicholas Reagan joining me, Nicholas not only well, and I
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: hear Ronnie Richter arguing, look, you gotta give me more.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: If you want me to believe a father killed his son, well,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I'll give you some more. What about not just his
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: own financial world crumbling in, but a multi million dollar
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: lawsuit filed against him by Mallory Beach's family because of
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: that son, Paul. And then, amazingly, Nicholas, after Paul is
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: murdered not long after that, there's a settlement and the
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Mallory Beach case because who you're gonna put on the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: stand Paul's did. And not only that, wasn't there evidence
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: that Marlog had a fifty thousand dollars a week opioid
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: addiction yeah, you know, you're you're talking about Curtis Eddie Smith,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: cousin Eddie as lots of folks like to refer to
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: him to. And that was actually how we started the
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: day was with the defense sort of trying to backtrack
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: with the judge and saying that they hadn't opened the
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: door to that specific case. Of course, the judge said, yes,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you did. You did that yesterday when you mentioned Smith
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars a week. You know, they referenced
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: that that was in relation to debts that Smith owed
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that he was getting money from Murdoch. But Smith had
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: all of these, all of these debts to one of
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the gangs down here for drug money. But the state
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: has argued that of course they the gang wasn't concerned
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: about Murdoch and wouldn't have wouldn't have actually killed him
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: because they knew that he was good for the money.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: And uh, you know, that was sort of one of
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: the one of the back and forth. The defense has
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: always sort of hinted that somebody else, well they have
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: plainly hinted that somebody else committed these these homicides and
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: maybe suggested that it was a gang down here that
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: did it. Of course, we hadn't seen any evidence actually
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: presented of that, but um, certainly the defense is sort
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: of trying to do this, uh defense through confusion tactic
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: where they just continue to pick away and ask questions
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: of all these witnesses to really again just try and
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: create fusion. We'll have to wait till they actually call
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: their own witnesses to see us. Do I have this right?
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: And this is a yes, no question. The defense is
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: pursuing the line of inquiry that because cousin Curtis Edward
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Smith owed money to a gang, the Cowboy Gang, and
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: apparently they spell their name coowbo I just to be different,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: the Cowboy Gang. Okay, so Curtis Edward Smith owes money
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: to them, so they come kill Alex Murdog's family. Doesn't
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: make any sense. How did they even know the family
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: was going to be there that night? Remember? How would
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: they have known that Maggie didn't even want to go
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: and Murdog talked her into it guilt of her out
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: about his father getting sick. So the theory actually is
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: going to be that the Cowboy Gang Murdog doesn't owe
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: them any money, but they come killing his family because
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: of Curtis Edward Smith. They killed the family of the
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: cash cow Murdoch. You're absolutely right about that. You know.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: The defense again hasn't specifically said that, but that's sort
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: of almost what they've been kind of hinting at, is
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: that there was Okay, somebody else killed Molly, Maggie and Paul.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Who was it? Well, maybe it was one of these
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: gangsters down here. We just got know it right, And
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: you know what, maybe it's my producer sitting over there.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: Maybe Sidney did it. Hey, Chary McCollum, what about that
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: theory the Cowboy gang did it. It's gonna washed out.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And the reason is in orders to do a hit
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: where you send a message, everybody has to understand it.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: It's got to be real clear. Nobody in the first day,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the first week, the first month, nobody mentioned any gang
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: related hit. Nothing. There's not gonna be anything from the
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Department Corrections, does not going to be anything on line
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: didn't happen. What in the deal and killing Maggie and
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Paul would not have sent them message to cousin Eddie
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: about any drug related money. I mean, if they wanted
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: to get back a cousin Eddie. Curtis Edward Smith, they
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: would kill his family or his dog, or burnt his
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: house down, not Alex burnocus, go ahead, doctor Duprie, exactly,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: and Nancy, there was no other evidence at the scene
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: of the crime for anyone else being there. In addition,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: Alex was there within about four or so minutes of
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: the murders and he saw or heard no one else.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: It just doesn't make sense, guys. Also, because of a
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: line of questioning the defense pursued earlier on, the state
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: had to come in and address the theory that Paul
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: committed suicide, which makes no sense at all. But I
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to our cut eight.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Did you see any support or evidence in this crime
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: scene that could support that the injuries suffered by Paul
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: or in any manner a suicide or self inflicted. I
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: don't see the possible ability, knowing that it's not a
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: contact shotgun wound, and I'm fairly strong, and I'm bigger
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: than Paul was, and I don't know if any way
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: you could hold that shot gun out and shoot yourself
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: in that direction at that angle and put that biological
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: material on top that door like that, I don't think
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: it's possible Jeff Gentry joining us from Fresno Forensics crime
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: scene investigator, could you address the testimony you just heard
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: absolutely so. Over the course of my career, I've investigated
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: well over three hundred to three hundred and fifty suicides,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: many of them with gunshot wounds. And so you would
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: first have to explain how he was shot in the
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: chest from a distance, and then that's unexplainable for a
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: self inflicted wound. And then the trajectory that was calculated
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: by mister Kinzie would also have to be explained that
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: it was from a distance of three to four feet
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: away and then at an upward angle, and that's near impossible.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: So everything about the scene suggests that somebody else from
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: a distance shot Paul, not that any of this was
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: self inflicted. There was no evidence at the scene to
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: explain a self inflicted wound. You know, yesterday we talked
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: a lot about Curtis Edward Smith called cousin Eddie, that
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: the judge would not allow his evidence of the so
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: called roadside shooting where Murdog reportedly bargain with Eddie to
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: shoot him in the head to get life insurance proceeds
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: for the surviving son Buster I don't think that was
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the reason he did it. But that said, today there
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: was a huge about face. Christine, could you please play
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: our cut one. The judge has now reversed that decision.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Take a listen. Or Griffin introduced the relationship between the
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: defendant and Eddie Smith. The court conducted a pre trial
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: hearing outside the presence of the jury address the issue
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: made made it clear that the roadside shooting was a
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: bridge too far. Then the defense decided to build a
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: road over that bridge, as if they could dance through
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: fire without getting burns, guard or anything. The door was opened.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Defense sought to introduce the relationship between the defendant and
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Eddie Smith, and then to seek to infer that Eddie
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Smith might have been should be a suspect in the
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: murder state as entitled to and explore this relationship. You know,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I hate it, Ronnie Richter, fellow lawyer, when lawyers dashed
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: around the courthouse throwing around fancy legal phrases. But I'm
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: going to use one right now. Boy, did they screw up?
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: I mean big time. Explain Ronnie. Yeah, it's a major gaff.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: So the opening the door concept is when a party
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: has successfully convinced a judge to keep out of evidence
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: matters that would be damaging to them. They opened the
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: door by asking questions about the very same subject matter
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: that they just got the court to exclude. And that's
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: exactly what happened here. The defense does not want anything
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: in evidence about that roadside shooting for a good reason,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: so they successfully blocked that from the trial. And then
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: right on top of that, they followed up by asking
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: questions about Alex's relationship with cousin Eddie and went so
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: far down that line that the judge correctly reversed and said, look,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: I kept it out for you. You asked me to.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: But if you're going to, if you're going to ask
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: questions about the same subject matter, then the doors now
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: open again. And so we're going to get into the
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: roadside shooting, which I do think is pretty damning for
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Team Murdo. You know what, when I would explain legal
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: concepts to juries, I like to use illustrations, and in
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: this case, I want to use the illustration of a vampire.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: We all know vampire lore, don't we. Well, a vampire
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: can't get well, everybody in the studio is shaking their head. Yes,
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: you know, a vampire can't get into your home unless
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: you invite them in. You know that, right, don't you
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: know that? Ronnie Rector, I do know that. Okay, See
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: you know that right. So it's a jury, So the
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: state could not bring in under the law a prior
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: bad act, that's reputation that has no bearing on this
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: murder trial unless and until the defense opens the door
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: by bringing it up, no matter how tangentially themselves. And
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: that's what they did. They go, judge, Judge, judge, don't
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: let the state bring in the roadside shoot where Curtis
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Edward Smith shoots murdog in the head for money. Don't
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: And the judge says, you know what, You're right, And
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: then they turn right around and try to frame Curtis
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Edward Smith and the Cowboy gang for the murders. I mean,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, twenty four hours had not even passed by.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: They get the evidence out and then they open the
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: door to let it come in. And it's coming in, Cheryl, Oh,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: it's coming in. Well, please me. And it's gonna be
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: remarkable once they outlined this with the totality of everything
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: else they have, I think it's gonna be a remarkable
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: testimony and Nicholas Reagan can we talk about something. Nicholas
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: joining us from WCSC Live five. You can find them
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at Nick Reagan Live five. Nicholas, I don't
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: buy that whole theory that Murdog wanted Curtis Smith to
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: shoot him in the head to get insurance proceeds for
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: his surviving son. Buster number one, are we sure there
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: was insurance proceeds? But number two, when it's Murdog ever
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: thought about anybody else other than himself. I think the
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: roadside shooting was set up so cops could then be
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: misled to believe, oh, the shooting of Maggie and Paul
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: was boshed. They were trying to get Alex Murdog, That's
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: what it was. So he's been the target all along,
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: not he's the killer all along. I think that he
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: was shot to throw off suspicion from himself. Daisy. I
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: think everybody thought that they when that news came in
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: that he was definitely a diversionary tactic to sort of say, hey,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: the family is being targeted. But I want to go
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: back to something that one of your earlier panel has
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: said about that Letting opening the door. Letting this testimony
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: come through. I believe it was mister Eric Gland who
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: tweeted himself that he thinks that the defense is not
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: stupid and that they did this on purpose to try
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: and goad the the state into bringing Smith to the stand.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Of course, you know, Smith brings all sorts of issues
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: for both sides. So you know, is this a tactic
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: the defense is attempting to to to actually get Smith
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: on the stand. Well, we'll just have to wait and
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: find out. I can tell you that as of this morning, uh,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: we were told by a source close to all of
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: the how the witnesses come in that Um Smith was
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: was not being prepared to take the stand today. Of
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: course he still could, but it wasn't necessarily on the
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: schedule for sure. Time stories with Nancy Grace, you know,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter. One concern I had about the defense opening
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: the door to Curtis Edward Smith's testimony is if it
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: had been allowed in the get gout. At the get go,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: an appeals court could have said, oh no, no, you're
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: taking the jury with prejudicial information that was not probative
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: as to the murders. But now that the defense basically
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: begs for it to come in by opening the door.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: That sets up an appeal on ineffective assistance of counsel. Well,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: he could, and I tend to believe it was a gaff.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I think they just went too far with the cousin
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Eddie evidence after they'd successfully kept it out. I do
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: think if there is a conviction in the case, when
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: the jury hears the facts about that roadside shooting, the
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: entire setup is so ridiculous that he fakes a flat tire,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: he gets Eddie come by and take a shot at him.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with suicide for hire. He
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: calls nine to one one to report that some stranger
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: just drove by and tried to kill him. It's obvious
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: that he is trying to set up the false narrative
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: that the Murdoch killer is still at large and now
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: Alec is being hunted. And he's doing that because he's
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: trying to get the hounds off of his trail, because
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: he knows from that interview in August that they're focusing
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: in on him. So innocent people don't set up elaborate
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: lies like that. No, but he should have been out
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: hunting for the real killer. I'm Christine, just look and
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: see if you have Murdoch's nine one one call from
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: the roadside incident because the man has been shot in
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: the head. He's talking about how he was shot by
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: a stranger and he had been changing his tire, blah
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: blah blah. Following the dispatch, lady says, well, sir, were
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: you shot? Because he's talking about everything other than hey, lady,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: I got shot. He's saying everything, but and to talk
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: to Michel du Pree, pathologist's medical examiner. Former detective kim On.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Remember he had a lawyer trot out and say, oh,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: he's had a brain injury. You know, all these horrible
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: injuries had occurred from the roadside shooting. He came into
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: court a couple of days later with a band aid.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: It was a band aid, not one of those big
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: gas bandages around your head. He had a little he
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: might as well had a door a band aid for
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: all I here. It was a band aid that big.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: That was the injury exactly, Nancy. I mean, this was
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: this was obviously a setup from the very beginning, and
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: when he did come into court with that band aid,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: it was it was totally obvious. And again, you know,
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: if someone was really trying to shoot to kill him.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: They would have done a better job. They would have
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: taken a second shot, you know, they would have shot
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: him the right the first time. This was such a hoax. Yeah,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I was just because we just were talking about that
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: go ahead. Yes, the suitors should have done like Alec
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: and shot more than one second. If the defense is
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: going to call cousin Eddie, it will be a fail
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: because what it will do it will show the jury
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: that their client associates the criminal. The other thing, the suicide,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: that was also a fail to even entertain that for
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: a moment. Normally, if somebody takes the weapon and blows
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: their brains out, the weapons right beside them, there was
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: no gun there, So logic will tell you, guys telling
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: this jury. Therefore, guys, Christine managed to find the Nie
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: on One call because she's amazing. Please listen tomorrow, logue
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: on this NIME on one call. Listen. Okay, what's going on?
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I stop? I got a flat tire stopped. Somebody stopped
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: to help me, and when I turned my back, they
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: tried to shoot me. Oh okay, will you shot? Yes?
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: But oh man, I'm okay you shot? Where where were
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: you shot it? Huh? Did they actually shoot you? They
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: tried to shoot you. They shot me? Okay, did you
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: guys hear that? He starts it off. The man has
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: been shot in the head, all right. This lawyer trots
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: out to say he's got a brain injury. And the
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: first thing he says is, oh, I got a flat tire.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: What is that what you're talking about, Cheryl McCollough. I mean,
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I got the shot in the head, and I thought
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: the guy could come back and shoot me again. That
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: would be the last thing I would be worried about.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: It be flying through those woods where he had pulled
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: everybody the side of the road and trying to hide
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: for Pete's sake at Bluely. And when he's asked, where
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: were you shot? He pauses, Uh, that's his answer. Why
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: wouldn't he be screaming for help? I was shot in
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: the head. Get somebody out here, he does, And once
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: Curtis Edward Smith is on the stand, the floodgates are
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: open now about him being Murdoch's drug dealer, about fifty
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: grand a week spent on drugs. And you know, Ronnie Rictor,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: let me circle back to you, young man, because you're saying,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: how could a father do this. How about a father
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: that was high out of his gourd on opioids. What
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: about that rictor? Hey, look, Nancy, I'm still I'm not
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: saying he didn't do it. I am in the camp
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: that believes that he did. I'm concerned that the state
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: is not satisfying his burden. But if the cousin Eddie
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: roadside shooting comes in and the jury gets a sense
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: that these are the links that the guy went to
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: just to get the hands off his trail, I think
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: it's going to be the thing that pushes it over
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: the top. And not for nothing. He was driving a
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: brand new Mercedes with run flat tires. The entire setup
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: is such an obvious ruse. Again, innocent people don't go
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: to these links to try to create this false narrative
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: that someone's hunting them. Well, it proves one thing about
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: Alex Murdog. Well, it proves many things. But it also
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: proves when he's in a jam, he pulls a gun.
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: That's what happened there. He wanted cops to think he
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: was a target, so he has somebody pull a gun. Um,
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: let me ask you a couple of lightning around questions.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: Ronnie Richter these are yes. No. I know that's hard
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: for a trial lawyer like you and myself to answering yes, no,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: but you agreed that a reasonable doubt does not mean
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: any doubt, any doubt or to as Do you agree
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: with that? Do you agree with that, Ronnie? Absolutely? And
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: isn't it true to and isn't it true that you
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: just stayed out? I'm in the can he did it?
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I think he did. Didn't you say that? I did
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: say that? Okay, So okay, So if you think you
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: have deduce, if you have deduce murdog is, murdog Is
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: guilty of double murder in the case, hasn't the case
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt he did it? You believe he
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: did it? No, it has not been proven to me.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: And there's one there's one missing piece. I still have
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: trouble with the two weapons, all right, I'm having trouble
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: with two weapons, one shooter, both of the weapons being
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: long rifles. I don't have a problem with it at all.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: What about a doctor, Michelle Dupre, You and I have
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: gone over and over that theory. I don't have a
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: problem with that at all either, because I think again,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: it was a forensic countermeasure. I think that he set
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: this up beforehand. It's very easy to go from one
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: gun to another. I think actually he didn't want to
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: take the time to reload after he shot the shot
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: Paul the first time, so it made sense to have
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: two guns. It's simply a forensic countermeasure. It means nothing.
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: It was absolutely not two shooters. Guys. Let's address Maggie's
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: wounds before we have to go back in the courtroom. Christine,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: could you please play cut nine. Her fatal wounds were
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: she had an abrasion or a burn on the left
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: side of her abdomen from the outside end. That bullet
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: followed a straight path. It entered the end of her
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: breast and did extensive damage to the end of her breast,
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: entered her lip jaw, side of her face area, and
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: went into her brain. That's the first fatal injury, and
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: it was immediate and she dropped right where she was at.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I saw no evidence that her body had been manipulated,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: moved or rolled over. The second fatal injury was down
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: into her head, and it actually did in the day,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: they'd call a keyhole injury. Just from appearances. The entrance
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: and exit in the top of her head was so
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: close it made one big injury, and then it entered
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: into her up her shoulders and went down into her body.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: That would have also been a fatal wound, but it
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: was second in my opinion. Jeff Gentry, are you convinced,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: based on what you just heard from doctor Kenzie that
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Maggie was down when she was shot fatally in the head. Yeah.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: So I heard mister Kensey give some testimony that there
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: were some blood flows down her leg that would indicate
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: that at some point she was upright when she was
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: shot initially, But both of those fatal wounds, she was executed.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Whoever shot her wanted her dead and wanted to make
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: sure that she was dead, shooting her multiple times with
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: multiple fatal wounds, but no doubt that she was on
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: the ground and died a pretty horrific depth there at
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: the scene and from my experience, and I'd like to
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: hear everybody else's way in on this. If you have
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: a different theory multiple gunshot wounds to the head, I mean,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: you know the person is dead after the first gunshot.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: Why do you keep shooting? Why do you shoot someone
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: over and over and over? That in my mind is
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: a crime of passion to keep shooting them. I mean,
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: you know, a random burglar or a hit. No, you
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: don't see repeat gunshot wounds. Now, a lot has been
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: made about what many have said it's a tire impression
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: on Maggie's leg. We heard that from the defense and
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: cross examination. Let's put that to rest. Take a listen
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: hour cut ten. Tell me what these images were flat
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: that is at pilaris ATV side by side that I
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: mentioned to your expert opinion that this mark on the
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: back of Maggie's leg is a tire impression and not
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: anything else anything tire treat impression. That is my opinion
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: in your opinion based on these very significant mirror images
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: and accidentals and that sort of thing. Was that personality
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: that specific tire tread that's on the back of it
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: is most likely that tire. If it's not that tire,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: it's a similar tire with the same tread design. I
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: saw no evidence that she was run over, so she
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: had to make contact at some point in time. Yes,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: isn't it true, doctor Dupree. If she had been run over,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: she would have other bodily injuries, but there were none.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: So what are they trying to say doctor absolutely, Nancy. Actually,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: I think this is sort of a red herring. I
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: think that it means nothing. I think she probably just
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: backed up against the tire to the ATV. It wasn't
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: even a bruise. It wasn't there when the pathologists examined
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: the body. It was just dried mud or dirt on
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: the back of the leg. I don't think it means anything.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: And guys, we now know based on what our expert
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Jeff Gentry and doctor Michelle Dupree and doctor Kenzie say,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Paul Sheeter was standing in the doorway we believe of
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: the kennel, But what about Maggie's shooter. Take a listen
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: to our cut eleven. And you never served the Almina
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: property for any signs of murder, evidence, bloody clothes or
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: anything until well after sometime in mid to late September.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Is that correct? That is correct? Well, if a thorough, tight,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: quick prompt investigation had been taken front of the Moselle property,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: the route to Almeta and the Almeta property, that could
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: have possibly excluded Alec from this circle, couldn't it if
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: you found no evidence of guns, bloody clothes or anything. Right,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: if you know what you're looking for and where to
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: look and have some type of information that would lead
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: you to that area. Yes, and that opportunity was missed.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? I wouldn't say it was
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: missed because it wasn't known about other than Okay, what
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get is cut eleven and this was
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: flagged on social media. Murdoch apparently nodding as the pathologist
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: talks about a bullet through Paul's arm, and we hear
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: about wadding, which tells us where the shooter was at
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: the time. Um, take a listen to our cut eleven.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: It's not about raise your left arm for me, please.
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: So and his arm was not raised, but I want
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: to point out it comes out. We'll go to see
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: some pictures in a minute. Okay, hearing a little bit
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: this one. So it would have come out right under
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: his arm. Yes, we do have the acid talent room
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: stack and we also have wadding, do we not. Yea,
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: we have flatting stuck in the arm under side of
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: his stack, and then it goes through his arm. Yes,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: he's still coming front to back. Um, well it's from
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: it's left right, but there is a slight front to
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: back because we don't have we have some eggs rooms
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: on the back. Okay, that's what everybody's talking about on
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: social media right there, Alex Marny going yeah, yeah, yep,
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: that's the way it happened. All right, guys, I'm hearing
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: in my ear. I'm not going to get to play
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: that sound for you that would possibly indicate where the
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: shooter was standing when Maggie was shot, because I'm being
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: told everybody is heading back in the courtroom. People are
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: starting to go back into the courthouse main entest right now,
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: getting ready for the jury to come in. So we've
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: got to go to thank you for being with us
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: today for our live lunch. Let's go back in the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: courtroom by everybody. Thank you.