Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 408—715 GMAT, from India. Tepper versus McCombs. Columbia versus Kellogg

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MBA Wire Taps 408—715 GMAT, from India. Tepper versus McCombs. Columbia versus Kellogg · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, February 3, 2025. Are you looking for an MBA program where you'll be more than just a number? Vanderbilt business offers a personalized learning experience to help student reach their unique career goals. Whether you're looking to switch careers entirely or accelerate the path you're on, the Vanderbilt MBA program will provide you with the individual support you need to propel your career forward. Vanderbilt is currently waiving their $200 application fee for MBA Wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, visit Business vanderbilt. Edu clearadmit. Alex I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, it's February and you know, as you Predicted, Harvard Round 2 interview invites are out. They came out last week and man, a lot of people, most people got rejected. Huh?
• 1:12
  Speaker B: As we know, Harvard takes a deep cut in terms of interview invite. So whilst most, the majority of top schools probably interview around 50% of their candidates, I would presume Harvard's interviewing a much smaller subset. So, yeah, those decisions all rolled out the back end of last week.
• 1:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I guess I wondered. I tried to share this on the wires about. I put a post up and I was like, look, don't worry if you get rejected because you're right. I mean, they take a steep cut. And then the good news, if you are holding an interview invitation from Harvard, your chances of getting in are actually much higher than if you get an interview invitation from, say, Booth or Wharton in terms of the conversion rate. Right. So because those schools, as you say, are interviewing a much larger group, so they're then selecting fewer to get in. So in any event, these are busy times and I know you're excited. You continue to be excited about our Ask Clear Admit chatbot, right?
• 2:12
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So it's, you know, week two or week three or whatever since we launched and we're getting a load of use out of it, or at least we're seeing a lot of use. Hopefully folks are getting great responses. But it's quite interesting to start to see how folks are using the app bot. There are ways to use it to get guidance on how to write a good essay or how to write an essay for a specific school or get feedback on a draft essay, that type of thing. Seeing a little bit of that. But we're also, yeah, we're seeing some really interesting use cases. And I'm actually, we're in the midst of drafting a prompt guide for the app to sort of help people get the most out of the chatbot. So, yeah, I'm fascinated by it all. Graham.
• 3:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, it is interesting because the use case that we had kind of worked around was just gathering together all this great rich admissions advice and content we have and then letting people have at it. And it's terrific. I love the way it works. I hadn't anticipated people uploading a draft essay and asking for some feedback, but it is surprisingly doing a really good job on that stuff, too. I mean, it's just, yeah, it's fascinating how much it knows. It's kind of scary.
• 3:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. As I try to make clear in the prompt guide that we're developing, it's, you know, you're not paying $400 an hour for this guidance, so don't expect the feedback to be of the quality of maybe a top admissions consultant. But I think it gets you 80% there. Right? It's a great sort of baseline first iteration typ tool to get your creative juices flowing and to give you some pretty basic feedback. But I think it's a great start for that process.
• 4:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So we'll keep an eye on that. It's been a lot of fun as this has gotten out there into the world. I'm really excited because this week on Wednesday, we're going to start off a series of events that I've been talking about on the show for several weeks now, but we're going to sit down with admissions directors from Berkeley, Wharton and Stanford to talk about those schools deferred enrollment programs. So if you're a college junior or senior or someone who's maybe currently in grad school, you can definitely benefit from joining us to learn about these deferred enrollment programs. So tune in. It's going to be Wednesday this week at noon Eastern, and you can sign up by going to bit ly de 0225. We will then follow that with another event next week, also Wednesday, noon Eastern. And I'll sit down with Columbia, Chicago, Chicago, Tepper, Yale and Darden for that session. So lots to come. Stay tuned. And then later in the month we're going to do master's in management programs with a whole bunch of top schools as well. So yeah, stay tuned. There's just lots coming your way. And Alex, I guess I can actually say now we've been talking about how we're going to do a special event in Boston in person this spring, and I'm happy to actually say now that on May 14th in Boston, we're going to gather together with a whole bunch of top MBA program admissions officers and do an in person student kind of fair for prospective students to these top MBA programs. And it's going to be hosted by MIT Sloan. So it'll be on the campus in their main building. Lots of fun. Stay tuned. There'll be more information about that forthcoming. But I'm really excited about this.
• 5:50
  Speaker B: The second time you've done it right? You did it last year in Chicago. So yeah, I think you should be excited.
• 5:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, lots of fun. So the other couple of news items. So we did a really good roundup of podcasts on our website. So Peggy on our team wrote an article about the podcasts of the M7SO top business schools with great podcasts about business and kind of management education. And there's a really good roundup in there. It goes school by school. So if you're curious about adding some good podcasts to your list, this is an excellent rundown. And she did a nice summarizing. And yes, there is a little plug for our show in there too. Yeah. So, and then we also did an article about Georgetown McDonough. They have this thing called Bark Tank, which is a riff on Shark Tank. And it's a startup kind of festival where they judge people's ideas. And so we did a cool article about that. They give out $150,000 worth of capital and prizes and stuff to people looking to launch businesses at McDonough. So very cool to see what startup, you know, the startup community at Georg Georgetown is up to. That was, that was a fun article. So check that out on the site as well.
• 7:01
  Speaker B: Good, very good.
• 7:02
  Speaker A: And then we continue to roll out admissions tips. We're now into interview season, so we've got, you know, a tip on interview etiquette which Alex, as you know, is all about. You know, the art of dropping a $50 bill on the floor during your interview and then pretending like it belongs to your interviewer so that, you know, that kind of thing.
• 7:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, tongue in cheek, right?
• 7:24
  Speaker A: No, but it actually is good. It's about like what to wear, like all the kind of little things about ma mastering an interview. And then we've got the seven hardest interview questions admissions tip, that's always been a long time favorite on our site. And then the last one that we did is about unusual interview practices, which includes Harvard's post interview reflection, MIT Sloan's pre interview essays, the case that sort of the business case that LBs often gives out or the little presentation that you have to make and the Fact that schools like INSEAD do two interviews. So they're all these kind of just sort of oddities. I don't know if it's fair to call them oddities, but just sort of non traditional things that happen in interviews. And so we wanted to make everyone aware of those.
• 8:09
  Speaker B: I'm a big fan of one, what Harvard does in that post interview follow up. I'm a big fan of what LBS does in that sort of case study type scenario, the presentation thing. So some of these nuances I think are really, really interesting.
• 8:25
  Speaker A: Totally. And then let's see. So I guess, and this is, I mean the BOT that we have has read all these tips and so you could ask the bot questions and it also pretty good at helping to get this out there. But you can also go to the articles on the site. So either way it's all there for you. We did continue to do some real human stuff and we caught up with students from ESADE in Barcelona. Great business school, always has had a very strong reputation for marketing. So we caught up with Carissa, who's originally from Highland, California. She went to NYU for undergrad, studied media culture and communications and spent her career before business school working at Warner Brothers, NBC, all these kind of networks and doing what it sounds to me mostly marketing. So she talks about, you know, how she chose asade and she's having a great time, it sounds like. But one of the things that we asked her is, you know, is there one thing that you would have skipped in terms of the admissions process and what would that have been? And you know, what helped you get through it? And so she says if I could have skipped one part, it would have been the GRE time tests are not my strong suit. So I had to be very intentional about my preparation. But what really helped me get through it was signing up for a course that broke down my studying into daily lessons and kept me accountable. So I shared that Alex, because I do think sometimes a course is the best path for someone, especially you know, if they're struggling or just kind of, as she says, it holds you accountable. So I don't know if you agree with that, but I just think for some people it's really useful to just get enrolled in something that sort of puts you on a track.
• 10:00
  Speaker B: I mean for different people, different things work. And I can absolutely see how this type of structure and sort of feedback and sort of control, as it were, is very useful.
• 10:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. So if you're curious about other student experiences at esade, go read that piece the last Thing I had, Alex, before we talk about this week's candidates that you've selected, is there are a couple more career reports. So Cornell Johnson released their career report and so did insead. So I wanted to go these, as we've been doing over the last couple of months, it feels like, and get your take. So I'll start with Cornell. Cornell had 261 out of their 291 grads who were actively looking for work. Okay, so that's about 89% of the class that were seeking employment. Now that number is down a little bit. It was 93% last year, so slightly fewer looking. I don't know what you know, it's hard to interpret this, but it is a trend that we've definitely observed. Within three months of graduation, 81% of those seek had received job offers. That is down from 94% last year. And 79% had accepted offers. That's also down from 93% last year. The median base salary is unchanged from last year. It sits at $175,000. Their average signing bonus was $38,000. So pretty high number there. These numbers are actually pretty much identical to last year. So they didn't see any movement in median base salary or signing bonus to speak of. I'll give you the industries went into as well as the regions. So we'll start with industries. 42% of the class went into financial services. That's up from 35. 31% went into consulting. That's down more than 10% from 42. 11% went into tech and telecom. That's unchanged. 4% into consumer packaged goods, also unchanged. 3% each into energy, healthcare and manufacturing. And those are. I don't have numbers on those from last year, so hard to say where they were, but I suspect maybe somewhat similar. But in any event, so folks heading into those domains on the list as well. And then the last thing is just where people landed geographically. So we had 65% landing in the Northeast. That's up substantially from 52%. 14% went out West. That's down a tick from 15%. 9% to the Midwest, unchanged. 5% to the Mid Atlantic. That's down 2%. Southwest took 4% of grads. That's down from 7 last year. The south took 3%. That's also down from 7% last year. And 3% of Cornell grads went international. That's down a little bit from 5% last year. So, Alex, what do you think of Cornell's numbers?
• 12:52
  Speaker B: Well, obviously the average starting salary is really Good. Right. Holding steady. We've seen some other programs where that number's dropped to T&175 really equates to M7 type programs. So that number's really good. The more troubling number is probably the number of jobs that are currently offered. I think it was around 80, 81%. You noted that's down. And we're seeing that as a trend across many of these top programs. So that's probably the number they're a little bit worried about now. It doesn't surprise me that they've got a massive uptick in financial services. Investment banking is kind of their comfort zone. They're a great program for investment banking and that sort of ties to the increase in folks landing jobs in the Northeast, New York City, no doubt, and so on and so forth. So overall, Graham, I'd say actually this is pretty good news with a little bit of caution around that percent of offers received.
• 13:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, I tend to agree. I mean, it is interesting, as you say, we have this shifting into financial services, which we've seen, and then again, we have the shift into the local market. 65% landing in the Northeast. That's up from 52. Right. So, yeah, some concentration happening there. But yeah, I think in light of, I mean, this is similar to what we're seeing with other top programs, so not so bad. And I think one thing that was interesting is that 89% of those grads were looking for work, 89% of their student body, and that was 93 last year. So not a dramatic difference. Whereas some of the other schools we've seen more dramatic kind of drops in the percentage looking, which I'm always a little curious about. So in any event, yeah, folks at Cornell on the whole, doing pretty well. Let's turn our attention to INSEAD and talk about theirs. Now, INSEAD's a little complicated in that this really technically includes two graduating years because you have the December graduates from 23 as well as the July 24 grads. Because INSEAD takes two. There are two intakes every year and it's a 10 month month kind of sprint of a program. Right. So in any event, this combines those two. It's a pretty big number of students overall. I think it's over 1,000 students across the two. Right. So we've got a median salary of $115,000 for INSEAD grads, and that's down a little bit. It was 117,000 last year. The signing bonus is 29,000. It's up ever so slightly from Last year. But in the ballpark, 80% of grads had an offer within three months of graduation. That number was 88% last year. So that's down somewhat. It says that 68% of students in the two classes reported their results. So that number was 80% last year. So they're actually, I guess they're collecting a little bit less data from grads than they had in the past. And that's probably because, you know, some of them are struggling to get jobs. Still. INSEAD does something else that's a little bit different in that they count sponsored students as getting jobs, right? So like if you're sponsored by McKinsey and you go back to McKinsey, you're listed as a student that was seeking employment and got a job in consulting. Okay. Whereas the US Schools tend to not like the sponsored students are considered not seeking. So it's a little bit different with INSEAD. So I'll give you the sectors. Now, 55% of INSEAD grads went into management consulting. Now 21% of those folks are actually 21% of that 55% figure are returning to their employer. So they were sponsored. So you could think of it as like, what is that, two, two fifths? Right? So that's the kind of returning to their employer. Now that number in terms of like management consulting placements last year was up at 61%. So it's down about 6% this year in terms of the percentage of the class heading off into consult the other big sectors. INSEAD does this a little differently, but they put like, you know, consumer, packaged goods, energy, all these things that we typically separate out. They just call corporate sectors. And they have 21% of their graduates heading into that domain. That was actually only 16% last year. So we see a little bit of an uptick there. 13% of INSEAD grads who reported jobs are heading into financial services. That was 14% last year. And then 11% went into tech, media and telecom, and that's up slightly. It was 9% last year. Now, in terms of where they're placed, again, they do this a little bit differently because they're using the entire world. So they had 30% heading into Northern and Western Europe. That's down from 35%. They had 24% heading into APAC, that's up from 20%. They sent 23% into Africa and the Middle East. That's up from 18%. So pretty big uptrend there. 9% into Southern Europe, that's unchanged. 7% to South America. We didn't have numbers on that last year. 5% into North America, that was actually higher last year. It was 8% last year and then 1% went to Eastern Europe. And I don't have numbers on that from last year because it wasn't one of the main areas last year. So what do you make of this, Alex? Because I know insead everything's a little different. So it's hard for us to do apples to apples. But what do you make of this stuff now?
• 18:23
  Speaker B: Do. Have we already done LBs or are we waiting for LBs?
• 18:28
  Speaker A: I think we might have talked about LBs, but I have to, I have to go back. They might have been one of the earlier ones to release. They tend to, they tend to follow the US a little bit more in terms of the way they do it. And also because they're a two year program, I think it's just easier. There's not, they're not combining two classes, etc.
• 18:44
  Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, yeah, I was more, more sort of comparing the average starting salary because clearly INSEAD's average starting salary is significantly lower. Yeah, it's US peer schools because we consider INSEAD and LBS the top tier European or outside of US Business schools. Clearly. And yeah, with an average starting salary of 115, it only equates to maybe a top 20 type program, I would assume in the US top 25. So we are sort of comparing apples to oranges, obviously folks getting these, these roles that they're going to places with less cost of living, etc. Etc. So that mitigates it a little bit. But yeah, so if you're planning to get a top MBA outside of the us, you've got to factor in that the recruiting side is going to be quite different, I suppose. But yeah, I mean consulting is their big gig and they got what, 55% that dropped off from 61% last year. They still got folks out there that are still seeking positions. So I mean it all paints the picture, Graham, that the recruiting environment around the world is facing headwinds and we've seen that in all the US programs and we're likely going to see the same issues in Europe and the rest of the world.
• 20:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's fair. And I just looked. I don't think we've talked about LBs yet because I don't see anything.
• 20:16
  Speaker B: I don't think so.
• 20:17
  Speaker A: And I have their last employment report and they were at $120,000 last. I don't know what they'll be this year. I suspect it'll be similar, maybe a Little bit down, but in any event. Yeah. So it's definitely not in the same kind of realm as those US schools that we've been talking about with the 175 type figures. But I will say one of the things that's so challenging about all of this is that you could say, wow, these numbers are down. They're headwinds. Is now a bad time to go to business school? And what I would say to that is that now might actually be a brilliant time to go because in most cases, you're not graduating. If you're applying right now, you can't start until next fall. You're not graduating until, what is it, spring of 27 or something. We're really getting further out there, and it's just hard to predict. And I think that's. Unfortunately, people tend to react based on what's going on in the market now. So all those people graduating now, when they applied, they probably were looking at amazing career stats, thinking this is the ticket. But it's really hard to time this stuff. That's all I would say.
• 21:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 21:20
  Speaker A: All right, we got to move on and talk about our candidates for this week, but if you do want to reach out to Alex or you can write to us@infoearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps and we will write you back. Alex. Anything else before we talk candidates?
• 21:34
  Speaker B: Let's get going.
• 21:35
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps Candidate number one. Our first candidate this week comes from an apply wire entry that you've selected, Alex. And this candidate is targeting five schools. They've got Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon, Apple, MIT, University of Washington, and UT Austin McCombs on the list. They have just applied to these schools in round two. They're hoping to start next fall. They've had their career to date be largely in technology, and they want to stay in tech after business school. They scored a 715 on the GMAT. That's the newer version of the test. And that equates to like a 760 if you're more familiar. Familiar with the old scale. They had an undergraduate GPA of 6.9 out of 10. They earned that undergrad in India where you don't typically see a 9 out of 10, but 6.9 out of 10 is. You know, it's. We've seen higher than that. They had six years of work experience to date, and they. I think they want to work in the States, but they do mention that. I don't know if they actually got into. No, I. I Guess you didn't ask them about this, so I'll let you talk through this. But we don't know where they want to go afterwards because they actually listed for post MBA location instead of a geography. They said technology. So they just want to stay in tech. And they did say that they had a very strong work profile and solid recs, but no real extracurriculars outside of a couple of activities since college. So they're worried that their weaknesses are their undergraduate GPA and this lack of kind of current outside activities. What do you make of this candidacy, Alex?
• 23:15
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think this is going to be tricky because they're applying in round two. They're overrepresented in the pool in terms of their sort of overall profile. Right. So tech from India and so forth. So if they'd have come in, in round one, I think their opportunity, they would have, you know, things would have been a little bit more accessible. So just wanted to. To put that out there. They said they couldn't apply in round one because they hadn't got the GMAT score at that point or whatever it was. And obviously their GMAT score is absolutely fantastic. So that might be their saving grace, as it were. Because the schools that they're targeting, obviously Sloan and Haas, are going to be really super competitive for them to get in, I think, think again, given that they're applying in round two. But then the other schools that they're targeting are sort of in that top 16 to 20 grouping.
• 24:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:16
  Speaker B: So there's a bit of a gap there and I actually think those types of schools are going to love that GMAT score. So if they can combine that GMAT score with really strong work experience which they suggest that they have, and they can get the recommendations to back that up, then sure, they might get access to those schools. But. But it's going to be challenging simply because they're. They're, you know, again, potentially overrepresented and targeting round two, which. Which is a little bit unfortunate.
• 24:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, I could not agree more. I mean, that was, you know, you and I both noticed that issue of like, wow, they have a couple of top, you know, sort of. Of top 10 schools in Haas and MIT, both which happen to have fairly small class sizes and fairly low acceptance rates. And then they have Tepper and Foster and McCombs which are great programs and have those strengths in technology that I guess this candidate is drawn to. But there are a bunch of schools in between those two groups, as you say. And so I was kind of curious as to why they didn't cast just a couple laps into that middle ground to see where things land, I would say, on the activities. I just hope that they marketed limited activities that they've done. Hopefully they did a good job of marketing it or better than they did in their description to us. But yeah, this is, we'll see. I mean, I'm hopeful that they'll get into one of the five that they're targeting and we'll just have to see how it, how it plays out. But yeah, as you say, you know, solid GMAT score. Geez, that's, that's a big number on that new test of 715. We don't see many of those, so.
• 25:51
  Speaker B: And I'm a big believer as you dip into the sort of top 20, top type programs, the GMAT score becomes more important, I. E. They really covets those folks with great scores.
• 26:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm going to throw a little bit of a curveball here, but I wondered, should this person be applying to like one of those one year tech MBAs that's on offer at say, you know, Cornell Johnson or NYU Stern? I mean, they've got already six years of experience. They're staying in the same sector. That could have been a pathway for them potentially. I don't know if they explored that, but that's another thing to keep in mind. Potentially.
• 26:26
  Speaker B: No doubt.
• 26:27
  Speaker A: All right, well, I want to thank them for sharing their profile. Let's move on though, and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week comes from a decision wire entry, which I presume means, Alex, that you've picked two decision wire entries for us to discuss this week, which I love. I love talking about people's undecided dilemmas. So we'll go over this first one. This person applied to Carnegie Mellon, Dartmouth, Emory, UT Austin and uva Darden. And they're going to start school this fall. They ended up getting offers from Carnegie Mellon, Emory and UT Austin. And they don't tell us the exact scholarship amounts, but they got some money from each of these programs. But they pointed out that for them it's coming down to Carnegie Mellon or McCombs. So those are the two front runners. They also shared the fact that they have $30,000 more from Tepper at Carnegie Mellon. So that's the kind of backstory on their admits and their financial aid amounts. They want to work in either consulting or technology and they list a bunch of companies, you know, Carney, Bain, bcg, Ernst and Young. So they're casting a fairly wide net in Consulting. They're not limiting themselves to mbb, but they also list a bunch of tech companies, the usual magnificent seven type targets. Their GRE score was a 329 and they had an 8.03 out of 10 in undergrad. This is an Indian candidate. They point out that they are overrepresented and international. They said that their first preference post MBA is to get a job as a tech pm. So tech product manager. They have a second preference which as I point out was consulting. Now they say that Macombs Culture and city is definitely better, but Carnegie Mellon University is much better known back home considering that I may want to return in five to seven years. So what do you make of this? I know they shared some additional comments and I know Elliot on our team chimed in with a point of view, but what's your take here?
• 28:31
  Speaker B: I quite like Pittsburgh. I mean I know it gets a bad rap, but sandwiches are cheap. I mean its cost of living is cheap. Yeah. And certainly Carnegie Mellon University has a huge international reputation and I just got a feeling that Tepper for their goals might have a slight edge over McCombs. But that's more of a feeling than hard analytical data. Go to McCombs for sure if you want to. If they want to start their US career in Texas, if they know they want to do that, then obviously McCombs is a really good option. But I think Tepper gives them more optionality in terms of flexibility in terms of where they want to start their career post their mba and they're getting a little bit more money from Tepper. I do understand Elliot's argument who is our colleague league in this on, on, on Decision Wire where he said I wouldn't worry so much in seven years time where you went because you'll have other brands on your CV in that time and that'll probably have more influence over your success back in India. But I'm leaning more toward Tepper in this case than I would McCombs.
• 29:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, I did a little bit of due diligence here and I mean these are both great programs. I think they both could help this candidate to land their career plan to hit it. But I think that with $30,000 extra scholarship at Tepper, plus the fact that Pittsburgh apparently I looked into this. The cost of living in Pittsburgh is almost 30% less than the cost of living in Austin. So there's a pretty.
• 30:21
  Speaker B: That's my point, Graham, that sandwiches are cheap.
• 30:23
  Speaker A: Sandwiches with the french fries on them. Yeah. So it's a lower cost of living environment The Carnegie Mellon brand in India because of engineering, computer science, all those things may play in terms of alumni network that's available back home. And so, yeah, I'm a little bit, I'm less convinced that, as you said, our colleague Elliot had mentioned going to UT Austin. Now, obviously this person has to go where they're going to be happy for two years, et cetera. So they should do their due diligence. But I will say there's a compelling argument that could be made for Tepper in this instance, I think given the financial side of it too.
• 30:59
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 31:00
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to thank them for sharing that dilemma. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our final candidate this week comes from a decision wire entry. And this person applied to Chicago Booth, Columbia, Kellogg and NYU Stern. And they ran the table, got into all of these schools. They got a little bit of money, money from Columbia and Chicago Booth. They did not share the amounts, but they did get some financial aid. They didn't get anything at Kellogg or Stern. They're going to start school in the fall. They are really interested in consumer goods and entrepreneurship in the, you know, kind of short term post MBA. They list companies like Anheuser Busch, InBev, Coca Cola, General Mills, Nestle, PepsiCo and Unilever as targets. They had a 3, 319 on the GRE. And the person writes, I've been living in New York City for six years, don't plan on staying here forever, but my partner really doesn't want to move to Chicago. I know Kellogg is better for CPG and brand management, but am I doing a disservice by attending Columbia over Kellogg? So, boy, that's, that's the question. And again, we don't know how much money Columbia is giving the them, but we know they're giving them some and Kellogg's giving them none. But what do you make of this, Alex? This is an interesting one.
• 32:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, how, how, how long are they going to stay with their partner? If this is a life partner, then it might be that they've got to stay in New York.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 32:33
  Speaker B: Because I mean, quite honestly, we can joke apart, but you've got to make joint decisions, right, with your partner and that their plans and so on and so forth. And I know there are cases where partners go to different MBA programs or one partner goes off to an MBA and other partner stays wherever they're from, but that cannot be ideal for anybody. So yeah, accounting for the partner is obviously very, very smart. So the key question here for you, Graham, is does Kellogg for consumer packaged goods trump Colombia that is offering money that Kellogg's not in such a fashion that they should make this sort of more orthodox decision?
• 33:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, boy, it's a tough one, especially. And I did write to this person on the site, I left a comment asking, well, how much money are we talking about? Right. Because if it's like a $10,000 scholarship, then, I mean, that's different than if it's 50. I mean, I do think Kellogg has a definite strength in marketing and CPG and brand management. I mean, no one, I think, would debate that. But I also think one thing that's not being said here is that Kellogg is. It's in Chicago, but not technically. I mean, it's in Evanston, which is a sort of leafy suburb on Lake Michigan north of downtown Chicago. And I mention that because I think that the experience of going to Kellogg is very different. Different than the experience of going to Columbia. Both have stunning, very new facilities that opened within the last, I don't know, five, seven years or something. So they both have these amazing facilities. So it's not a question of that. But Columbia's facilities are dropped in Manhattan and kind of way Upper west side, north of the Upper west side, technically in Manhattanville. And that's very different, a very different environment than the environment at Kellogg. So I think it'd be good to know if this person has any preferences in that domain, too. But as you also say, they have to decide with their partner, and their partner doesn't want to move to Chicago. One thing I thought was kind of interesting is that this person who got in says, I've been in New York for six years, and I don't plan on staying here forever. Well, I hope that they've checked with their partner, like you were saying, and that the partner doesn't want to stay there forever, because that could be a potential conflict down the road. I know a lot of New Yorkers who never want to leave. Right. So. So any event, yeah, this is tricky. I mean, I. I would be great to know how much money's on the table here, because if it's a substantial amount of money, I would say go to Columbia. I mean, that's. They're both as. As you point out, they're both in the same tier. In fact, most of these schools, Booth, Columbia, Kellogg that they got into, they're. They're sort of in the same group. Right. So I. I don't think it's a question of rank or something. It's just fit and specific subject areas. So. Yeah, this is not easy.
• 35:30
  Speaker B: I mean, it does get into the question for a certain specialization, I. E. For consumer pack of goods, brand marketing and marketing out of Cal. What's the value of that versus I mean, Colombia's got to have a great marketing department, right? I mean, they're an M7 program.
• 35:48
  Speaker A: Absolutely.
• 35:49
  Speaker B: So it's not like they're going to be devoid of market. It's just like Kellogg has a great finance program.
• 35:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 35:55
  Speaker B: So the question is, is the added value of Kellogg marketing so much greater than what would still be a very decent, very strong marketing program at Columbia? I'm not convinced. I think to me they're already in New York. I think sticking with New York and giving the partners interests makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
• 36:23
  Speaker A: Okay, I hear you. Yeah, I mean, I guess, yeah, we didn't ask them to rank the partner and how, you know, whether there's a. Whether there's a better partner in Chicago potentially or something, but. No, I, I hear you. I'm just being silly. No, I think you're right. I mean, it does sound like the momentum is pointing towards New York and going to Columbia. But I just wanted to play devil's advocate and I do love these decision wire posts. It's so much fun to debate. And as we always say, these are like champagne problems. People have gotten into great schools and they're not going to land on wrong. You know, they're going to land on their feet no matter where they go. Right. So in any event, thanks for picking these out, Alex. Yeah. We'll be back next week to do it all again if you're. If you're willing.
• 37:02
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.