Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Female novelist writes story about murdering hubby just arrested ...for murdering hubby!

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Female novelist writes story about murdering hubby just arrested ...for murdering hubby! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Exactly Yeah. Just a student's colleagues and
1:11
Speaker 1: loved ones gathered at the Oregon Culinary Institute tonight to
1:15
Speaker 1: remember beloved chef Dan Brophy. He was shot and killed
1:18
Speaker 1: over the weekend. Police still don't know who killed him. Okay,
1:22
Speaker 1: I hope you're all sitting down. A woman, a very
1:25
Speaker 1: successful novelist rights How to Murder Your Husband, just arrested
1:31
Speaker 1: for allegedly murdering her husband. I'm Nancy Grace, this is
1:37
Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What happened? Who? What? Where? When? Why?
1:43
Speaker 1: I mean? Could she be that stupid a brilliant novelist
1:47
Speaker 1: to write about murdering her husband and then murder her
1:52
Speaker 1: husband again? I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
1:56
Speaker 1: you for being with us. Straight out to Chuck Robert's
1:59
Speaker 1: Crime one dot com investigative reporter, where you can find
2:02
Speaker 1: this in every other crime and justice story, Chuck, was
2:05
Speaker 1: she that dumb? What happened? I don't know. She wrote
2:09
Speaker 1: not only that essay how to Murder your husband, but
2:11
Speaker 1: she wrote the wrong hero, the wrong lover, and the
2:15
Speaker 1: wrong husband. So is she the right suspect? His body
2:19
Speaker 1: was found by Okay, wait, wait wait, Chuck, as usually
2:22
Speaker 1: got me drinking from a fire hydrant. Here she wrote, Okay,
2:25
Speaker 1: just give me those titles one more time because I
2:28
Speaker 1: want to just let it marinate. I've got with me
2:32
Speaker 1: a superstar lineup. Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of La Kenya. Johnson,
2:37
Speaker 1: veteran felony prosecutor out of Atlanta. Ashley Wilcot, judge, lawyer,
2:42
Speaker 1: founder of childcrimewatch dot Com and a new guest joining
2:47
Speaker 1: us but not new to the crime business, Fulton County
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Speaker 1: medical examiner doctor Jan Gorniett. Give me those names one
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Speaker 1: more time, Chuck Roberts. Well, she authored a lot of
2:57
Speaker 1: romance suspense novels, a lot of young virile heroes. Got
3:02
Speaker 1: the chit chat, cut the chit chat. What are the names?
3:05
Speaker 1: The wrong hero, the wrong lover, wrong hero, wrong lover,
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Speaker 1: the wrong husband, wrong husband. And in that in that
3:17
Speaker 1: book she wrote the line where there's a will, I
3:20
Speaker 1: intend to be in it? Oh my goodness, I love that.
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Speaker 1: I'm totally gonna have to steal that now, Chuck Robberts
3:24
Speaker 1: before I so rudely interrupted you, what did you say
3:27
Speaker 1: about viril? You know what that means, right, Chuck? You're
3:31
Speaker 1: not just like reading it off of a blog, are you? Okay?
3:34
Speaker 1: What did you say about young viril? What? Well? Her?
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Speaker 1: The male heroes in most of her romance novels were
3:41
Speaker 1: young studs. They were young you know, viril males. And
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Speaker 1: can I ask you what exactly do you mean by
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Speaker 1: a young stud? I'm interested? What does that mean to you, Chuck?
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Speaker 1: A young stud? I'm going by I'm going by the
3:54
Speaker 1: image on her book covers. Okay, I have not, I
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Speaker 1: have not, I have not read. Actually, you know what,
4:01
Speaker 1: let me go out to our new guest joining US
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Speaker 1: Fulton County Medical Examiner, doctor Jan Gorniat. You know, doctor Gornia,
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Speaker 1: it's a real pleasure to have you along with Ashley
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Speaker 1: Kenya and doctor Bethany. I remember spending I'm sure they
4:16
Speaker 1: did not enjoy it. Hours at the Medical Examiner's office
4:21
Speaker 1: going through line by line, sometimes word by word, of
4:25
Speaker 1: a medical examiner's report autopsy report because I knew the
4:31
Speaker 1: jury would not understand what the doctor was saying, because
4:35
Speaker 1: I certainly didn't understand it. So there's got to be
4:38
Speaker 1: at least one rr that doesn't. We would go through
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Speaker 1: it line by line by line. In your opinion, doctor
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Speaker 1: Jan Gorniac, we hear what Chuck Roberts has just reported,
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Speaker 1: wrong hero, wrong lover, specifically wrong husband. In my mind,
4:53
Speaker 1: all that is icing on the cake. But the cake,
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Speaker 1: the meat and potatoes are the medical Xaminer's report on
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Speaker 1: the autopsy. Agree or disagree, doctor, I totally agree, but
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Speaker 1: just remember our job as Medical Examiner's forensic pathologist is
5:10
Speaker 1: to determine cause and manner. So it's nice and could
5:15
Speaker 1: you break that down, doctor Gurney at when you say
5:18
Speaker 1: to explain what's the difference between Coday cause of death
5:21
Speaker 1: and m O day manner of death? Okay, the cause
5:23
Speaker 1: of death is simply what still the last injury or
5:28
Speaker 1: illness that caused somebody to die, for example, gunshot, wounds
5:33
Speaker 1: of the chest, stab wounds, drug overdose, pneumonia. And the
5:37
Speaker 1: manner of death comes from the investigation, which means how
5:40
Speaker 1: did the death come about? So if we know the
5:43
Speaker 1: background circumstances, then we can determine whether it was an
5:46
Speaker 1: accident or a homicide. So our definition or medical definition
5:50
Speaker 1: and not legal definition, is death at the hands of another.
5:53
Speaker 1: We don't know who the other was most of the time.
5:56
Speaker 1: But if we know that there's evidence that someone didn't
5:59
Speaker 1: shoot themselves or fall down the stairs and there was
6:03
Speaker 1: another person involved, then we ruled that as a homicide,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Jane Gourniac. I don't know if you or the
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Speaker 1: rest of the panel noticed that I did not interrupt once.
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Speaker 1: I feel like I've died and gone to heaven hearing
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Speaker 1: the clear explanation of the evidence at trial. Although I
6:21
Speaker 1: have another follow up for you, doctor Jane Gourniac. There
6:25
Speaker 1: are cases. I remember an arson case I prosecuted in Fulton,
6:29
Speaker 1: and it looked as if the woman had simply inhaled
6:37
Speaker 1: fumes from a house fire and died. Okay. Then upon
6:42
Speaker 1: careful examination, the medical examina noticed a blow to the head.
6:47
Speaker 1: The defense claimed that the blow to the head was
6:51
Speaker 1: it looked like from a bat or a cylindrical object.
6:55
Speaker 1: The defense argued, when the firemen were taking her out
6:58
Speaker 1: of the home, they accidentally in the dark and the
7:01
Speaker 1: smoke bammed her head into a banister, and the stairwell
7:05
Speaker 1: did have banisters. That was the argument. Okay. However, upon investigation,
7:13
Speaker 1: including investigation from the medical examiner investigators, we discovered that
7:19
Speaker 1: all of the husband's family albums of his family not hers,
7:23
Speaker 1: had been removed and hidden at his warehouse. I went
7:27
Speaker 1: to every dry cleaner within a ten mile radius and
7:30
Speaker 1: found all of his suits and dress shirts and ties
7:34
Speaker 1: getting cleaned all of them at once. In the week
7:39
Speaker 1: before the death. We found where he had checked the
7:44
Speaker 1: weather to find out if it was going to rain
7:47
Speaker 1: the day of the fire, and to kep it all off,
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Speaker 1: called his insurance company and asked if his house burned down,
7:56
Speaker 1: would his insurance policy pay for rental furniture. Okay, the
8:00
Speaker 1: medical examiner took all this extrinsic evidence into account and
8:04
Speaker 1: determined it was homicide. What about that, doctor Gorni act, Well,
8:09
Speaker 1: part of our job is to also determine pre and
8:13
Speaker 1: post mortem injuries, so we are experts and injury interpretation,
8:18
Speaker 1: so we can tell. So if you're saying that someone
8:20
Speaker 1: has smoke inhalation, I don't that's what they died from.
8:23
Speaker 1: But they also have a blow to the head. Sometimes
8:26
Speaker 1: in the fire deaf. It's difficult, but we can tell
8:29
Speaker 1: whether that occurred before the person died or after. But
8:33
Speaker 1: then also, especially in smoke inhalation cases, we always check
8:36
Speaker 1: four carbononoxide. So if someone has carbon monoxide in their blood,
8:41
Speaker 1: then they were alive at least breathing during the time
8:44
Speaker 1: of the fire. But if that carbon monoxide comes back negative,
8:48
Speaker 1: then we can say that they were dead at the
8:50
Speaker 1: time of the fire and they weren't breathing, so therefore
8:53
Speaker 1: the blow to the head came before they succumbed quote
8:56
Speaker 1: unquote to the fire. Well, as tempting as it is
8:58
Speaker 1: to assume this and did it because she has written
9:01
Speaker 1: all these books and typically let me just tell you.
9:04
Speaker 1: I gave Chuck Roberts a hard time to doctor Bethany
9:08
Speaker 1: Marshall ellis psychoanalyst when he said young, virile men were
9:12
Speaker 1: the heroes. But actually she does usually have chiseled good looks,
9:18
Speaker 1: guys with X Navy seals quote, rugged men, strong women,
9:24
Speaker 1: and a good story. I don't know what they mean
9:26
Speaker 1: by rugged, but I always tell my husband when he's
9:30
Speaker 1: got a knife for a lawn moore in his hand,
9:32
Speaker 1: I would say, use those fingers for punching numbers on
9:36
Speaker 1: a calculator. You get away from that, Get away from
9:40
Speaker 1: that rugged, chiseled good looks, my rare end. I want
9:45
Speaker 1: a man that goes to work and loves the children.
9:47
Speaker 1: That's what I'm looking for. But isn't that stereotypical Doctor
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Speaker 1: Bethany chiseled, rugged good looks, X Navy seal and whoops,
9:55
Speaker 1: my husband's dead. Well did you see the cover of
9:59
Speaker 1: those books? I oh my god. Those those men look
10:04
Speaker 1: like they had spent their lives in gymnasium because they
10:07
Speaker 1: were really uh boff um. It's interesting because the appearance
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Speaker 1: of the couple versus the appearance of the book cover
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Speaker 1: was so different. It's like this woman was living in
10:22
Speaker 1: a fantasy world. And a lot of times I see
10:25
Speaker 1: with my patients that they have a preference for living
10:29
Speaker 1: in fantasy rather than reality. Um, there's nothing wrong with that.
10:37
Speaker 1: Listen to this hold on, Doctor Besley listened to what
10:40
Speaker 1: a neighbor Don McConnell tells our friend at KOI NTV
10:44
Speaker 1: got the Nerva wants to ask her. You know, I said, well,
10:47
Speaker 1: you know, I've hurt anything in them and she said,
10:50
Speaker 1: know that, you know, I'm out of the lupe and
10:52
Speaker 1: know what do you mean? She says, well, they considered
10:55
Speaker 1: me a suspect until that moment. Don McConnell, who shares
10:58
Speaker 1: a fence with Nancy Brophy, only had a high end
11:01
Speaker 1: by relationship with its neighbor. She's taken it well, and
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Speaker 1: that's what I said, you know, she I said maybe that,
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Speaker 1: you know, some people can handle thing better than others.
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Speaker 1: And she never showed that she was really upset. But
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Speaker 1: you know, nobody I think dwelled on the subject. You know, hey,
11:18
Speaker 1: what do you think of you know, you know, you
11:19
Speaker 1: just kind of get in and get out type thing.
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Speaker 1: In the months since her husband, beloved chef Daniel Brophy,
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Speaker 1: was killed, McDonald says, Nancy, who's now in custody, kept
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Speaker 1: busy preparing to move. I never to put that together.
11:33
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, even after she said I'm a suspect,
11:37
Speaker 1: I just thought, oh yeah, well they they always suspect
11:40
Speaker 1: the opposite the spouse. You know, I would hope that
11:42
Speaker 1: she's innocent and that she's just handling it. Well, wow,
11:48
Speaker 1: handling it well. You were hearing our friend Vilina Jones
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Speaker 1: at CBS's KOI NTV talked with the neighbor Don McConnell,
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Speaker 1: and apparently all the neighbors felt the same way. I
12:00
Speaker 1: want to follow up with what we were just talking
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Speaker 1: about with doctor Bethany Marshall. We are talking about a woman,
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Speaker 1: a successful novelist who writes novels about murdering your husband,
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Speaker 1: and now she suspected of murdering her husband. I mean,
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Speaker 1: Ashley Walcott, judge lawyer, come on, I mean, you know,
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Speaker 1: everything she wrote in the book is going to come
12:24
Speaker 1: in exactly absolutely and it should because quite frankly, think
12:28
Speaker 1: about you know, the description in the beginning of this
12:30
Speaker 1: broadcast was she wrote romance suspense novels, talk about the
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Speaker 1: suspense and any of the things that she detailed in
12:37
Speaker 1: her novel that fit this particular crime need to come
12:41
Speaker 1: in because it's clearly premeditation. If the facts are the same.
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Speaker 1: You don't make this stuff up in a book and
12:47
Speaker 1: then say, oh, somebody else did it. Well, I notice
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Speaker 1: to you Kenya Johnson, veteran Atlanta prosecutor. In her blog
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Speaker 1: how to Murder Her Husband by Nancy Brothy, she writes,
12:57
Speaker 1: as a romantic suspense writer, I spend a lot of
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Speaker 1: time I'm thinking about murder and consequently about police procedure.
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Speaker 1: After all, if their murder is supposed to set me free,
13:06
Speaker 1: I certainly don't want to spend any time in jail. Ali, Okay,
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Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is get that authenticated
13:15
Speaker 1: and certified and read it out loud in the opening statement, Absolutely,
13:18
Speaker 1: that's going to be great evidence. Looks like a situation
13:22
Speaker 1: of life imitating art in a new production called The
13:25
Speaker 1: Wrong Wife. Seems like she may have been the wrong wife.
13:28
Speaker 1: But this isn't as uncommon as you think. Many times
13:31
Speaker 1: the murderers have plot out or have written out their
13:34
Speaker 1: plans years a halftime, and their life just happened to
13:39
Speaker 1: play it out at the white circumstances, which reminds me
13:42
Speaker 1: of the Atlanta child murders trial with Wayne Williams. It
13:45
Speaker 1: came out that he had written a book manuscript almost
13:49
Speaker 1: talking about similar circumstances in which he murdered some of
13:52
Speaker 1: the little boys in Atlanta. So this is the type
13:55
Speaker 1: of information that goes towards knowledge identity. She has wherewithal
14:00
Speaker 1: to play in such a murder, and she has the
14:03
Speaker 1: ability to take it out and execute it in steps,
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Speaker 1: as she's detailed in her art. Kenyan Johnson beautifully put okay,
14:12
Speaker 1: I hope all of you are sitting down. Actually you
14:14
Speaker 1: may need to lay down for this I'm reading from
14:18
Speaker 1: her writing. Quite divorce is expensive, and do you really
14:22
Speaker 1: want to split your possessions? Or if you marry for money,
14:25
Speaker 1: aren't you entitled to all of it? The drawback is
14:29
Speaker 1: police aren't stupid. They're looking at you first, so you
14:32
Speaker 1: have to be organized, ruthless and very clever. Husbands have
14:36
Speaker 1: disappeared from cruise ships before. Why not yours? It sounds
14:39
Speaker 1: like a commercial, so Chuck roberts, what's the cause of
14:43
Speaker 1: death on the husband? It is a gunshot wound. But
14:45
Speaker 1: that's about all we know of. The judge sealed a
14:48
Speaker 1: probable cause after David. So we don't know actual cause
14:52
Speaker 1: of death. We don't have a weapon, time of death,
14:56
Speaker 1: her alibi, her motive. It's all sealed and probably will
15:01
Speaker 1: be until she goes on trial. But the students who
15:04
Speaker 1: found him said he did suffer from a gunshot wound.
15:07
Speaker 1: He was found by students around eight thirty am on
15:10
Speaker 1: a Saturday at the Oregon Culinary Institute, still alive, barely
15:15
Speaker 1: and they called nine one, but he was pronounced dead
15:18
Speaker 1: at the scene. Wow two. Doctor Jane Gourneyac, Fulton County
15:21
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner. Doctor Gourneyac hearing those facts, gunshot wound, still
15:26
Speaker 1: alive at the time he was found by students at
15:31
Speaker 1: his place of work, the Oregon Culinary Institute. What does
15:37
Speaker 1: that tell you, doctor Gourneia, Well, it might be that
15:42
Speaker 1: the shooting occurred not too long before he was found,
15:46
Speaker 1: if he was still technically alive for the emergency medical
15:49
Speaker 1: services when they arrived, or where was he shot. So
15:54
Speaker 1: you know, a gunshot wound to the head, it would
15:56
Speaker 1: be more fatal or more quickly fatal, I guess, compared
16:00
Speaker 1: to like a gunshot wound of the chest where you
16:03
Speaker 1: go into shock from bleeding. First so depending on where
16:08
Speaker 1: and when the shots occurred, could fit the story of
16:12
Speaker 1: him still being alive but unfortunately pronounced dead by the
16:15
Speaker 1: time they got there. They's got there to pronounce him at.
16:19
Speaker 1: What would medical examiner investigators look for at the scene?
16:24
Speaker 1: At the scene, what we would look for if there's
16:26
Speaker 1: any sign of a struggle, UM, the position that they're
16:30
Speaker 1: they're in, whether they was evidence that someone moved, that
16:34
Speaker 1: they were shot in one place and was able to
16:36
Speaker 1: walk because there's a blood trail, and then they collapsed
16:40
Speaker 1: at a different place. UM. We will also bag their
16:43
Speaker 1: hand to preserve any evidence. So just in case, like
16:46
Speaker 1: I said, there was a struggle or obviously there's no
16:50
Speaker 1: weapon there put someone I've fired the gun themselves, So
16:53
Speaker 1: if there's no weapon there, we can kind of sort
16:56
Speaker 1: of really rule out a suicide. UM, most homicides I've dealt,
17:00
Speaker 1: whether they do not leave the gun behind, so that
17:03
Speaker 1: points to a death at the hands of another. So
17:06
Speaker 1: in any witnesses, we would speak to the people who
17:09
Speaker 1: found them. Also with really important is one of the
17:12
Speaker 1: last time they were known alive, and that can help
17:16
Speaker 1: pinpoint a time of death. So if he was supposed
17:19
Speaker 1: to go home on Friday night, he wasn't supposed to
17:21
Speaker 1: be there, or his class is supposed to thirty at
17:23
Speaker 1: nine o'clock and he's there at in thirty, So that
17:26
Speaker 1: those type of questions that we ask people can help
17:29
Speaker 1: narrow a timeline of when the injury occurred. That is
17:32
Speaker 1: very telling. The fact you pointed out about whether the
17:36
Speaker 1: weapon is there or not, and it was not there,
17:40
Speaker 1: so clearly not likely to be a suicide. We also
17:43
Speaker 1: know that this occurred the students came in around eight
17:47
Speaker 1: thirty in the morning. So who would be waiting there
17:52
Speaker 1: at eight o'clock in the morning to gun someone down.
17:55
Speaker 1: We don't know of a robbery. We don't know of
17:59
Speaker 1: signs of a bird glory. And did you say, Chuck
18:02
Speaker 1: Roberts said the judge sealed the probable cause affidavit because
18:06
Speaker 1: I find that very unusual. I do too, and I
18:07
Speaker 1: don't know Oregon law, obviously, but she made her first
18:10
Speaker 1: appearance and the judge accepted the defense request to seal
18:16
Speaker 1: the probable cause half of David that has all the
18:19
Speaker 1: details of the crime. To your point about when he
18:22
Speaker 1: was shot, A couple of the students said that they
18:25
Speaker 1: thought he had been there overnight, that he was quote
18:28
Speaker 1: working late. What he was doing there, why he was there,
18:33
Speaker 1: and whether or not he normally taught on Saturday morning.
18:36
Speaker 1: I don't know, but was working late. In the student's testimony, guys,
18:40
Speaker 1: I want you to hear a passage that she wrote. Okay, quote.
18:45
Speaker 1: I live in the beautiful green wet Northwest, married to
18:48
Speaker 1: a chef whose mantra is life is a science project.
18:52
Speaker 1: As a result, there are chickens and turkeys in my backyard,
18:55
Speaker 1: a vegetable garden which also goes tobacca as insecticide. A
18:59
Speaker 1: hot meal on the table every night. Wow, what I
19:02
Speaker 1: would do to get that. It's usually me putting the
19:04
Speaker 1: hot meal on the table. For those of you who
19:06
Speaker 1: have longed for this, let me caution you. The old
19:09
Speaker 1: adage is true. Be careful what you wish for. When
19:12
Speaker 1: the gods are truly angry, they grant us our wishes.
19:17
Speaker 1: That is her writing now again. The neighbors in the
19:21
Speaker 1: community are shocked. Listen. I think it's a surprise to
19:25
Speaker 1: everybody in the neighborhood. Fairly quiet, ordinary people. From what
19:29
Speaker 1: I could observe, Cook he's a Christmas chef. Dan Brophy
19:32
Speaker 1: ran Southwest Portland's Oregon Culinary Institute. Students arriving for class
19:36
Speaker 1: the morning of June second found Brofy dead inside the school.
19:40
Speaker 1: Is killer nowhere to be found? Later that day, Nancy
19:43
Speaker 1: Crampton Brofy appeared at a vigil. He was a person
19:47
Speaker 1: who did what he bought up. He loved teaching, he
19:50
Speaker 1: loved rushrooms, he loved next to times. Nancy Crampton Brofy
19:56
Speaker 1: posted on her Facebook page the next day a message
19:59
Speaker 1: announcing the sad news of her husband's murder and added,
20:02
Speaker 1: I'm struggling to make sense of everything right now, guys.
20:04
Speaker 1: Not only did she write that when she took to
20:07
Speaker 1: Facebook the day after the death, she also shares a
20:11
Speaker 1: very unusual post announcing the death and urging friends not
20:16
Speaker 1: to call. And I'm looking at her post. It's a
20:20
Speaker 1: full paragraph and she says, Chef Dan Brody was killed
20:25
Speaker 1: yesterday morning, my husband and best friend. For those of
20:29
Speaker 1: you who are close to me and feel this deserved
20:31
Speaker 1: a phone call, you're right, but I'm struggling to make
20:34
Speaker 1: sense of this now. There's a candlelight vigil tomorrow night.
20:37
Speaker 1: I appreciate your loving responses. I'm overwhelmed. Please save the
20:41
Speaker 1: phone calls until I can function. You know that showed
20:44
Speaker 1: a lot of wherewithal to take to Facebook, Chuck Robertson
20:48
Speaker 1: and type out a paragraph exactly. And I think something
20:52
Speaker 1: interesting she said at you know, extolling her husband's fame,
20:57
Speaker 1: she said, he taught me everything I all about knives.
21:02
Speaker 1: We don't know the murder weapon, but it's apparently a gun.
21:05
Speaker 1: But I think that was interesting that she said that
21:07
Speaker 1: at the vigils. Yeah, I find that unusual too. And
21:10
Speaker 1: to you, doctor Bethany Marshall. I'm looking at the cover
21:15
Speaker 1: of one of her books and it is I guess
21:17
Speaker 1: some people would say a hottie. I wouldn't. He's not
21:19
Speaker 1: attractive to me because he's obviously been working out in
21:23
Speaker 1: the gym too much. He's wearing a gaudy chain around
21:27
Speaker 1: his neck, and he's wearing when do you say, a
21:30
Speaker 1: tank top. They refer to them as wife beaters, which
21:32
Speaker 1: I don't. Wife beater I don't, but some people do.
21:35
Speaker 1: And he's all like smoldering, you know. I like a
21:39
Speaker 1: guy who comes home from work and I can tell
21:43
Speaker 1: he's actually been working, not preening in the gem all
21:47
Speaker 1: day long. I guess it's you know what you think,
21:50
Speaker 1: what you're looking for but this guy isn't even remotely
21:54
Speaker 1: attractive to me. I mean when my husband's breaks into
21:57
Speaker 1: a big smile and he's playing with the twins, I mean,
22:01
Speaker 1: that is when that's when I realize how much I
22:03
Speaker 1: really love him, Not this dude all buffed out. The
22:07
Speaker 1: cover of the book tells me that she has a
22:11
Speaker 1: very strange, idealized view of herself and of men. This
22:16
Speaker 1: is a woman who lives in a fantasy world. Not
22:19
Speaker 1: only does she write fantasy novels, but she lives in
22:22
Speaker 1: a fantasy. Have you ever heard of the phrase neurotics
22:25
Speaker 1: build castles in the sky, psychotics live in them. So
22:29
Speaker 1: not only did she write out her fantasies in which
22:35
Speaker 1: I think, in her own mind's eye, she was this young,
22:38
Speaker 1: beautiful ingenus who had power over all these buff men
22:45
Speaker 1: who are out doing her bidding, and then she had
22:48
Speaker 1: the ultimate power to kill them, and then they left
22:51
Speaker 1: her with their largesse, all their money. This is the
22:56
Speaker 1: fantasy world she lived in, and she wrote about it extensively,
22:59
Speaker 1: and after her husband died, the fantasy did not end.
23:03
Speaker 1: The way she put the Facebook post was as if
23:06
Speaker 1: she was still in that fantasy world. Oh it's like,
23:08
Speaker 1: don't cry for me, Argentina. You know, please please give
23:12
Speaker 1: me a few days to recover and then you can
23:15
Speaker 1: call me. But don't call now. You know, this whole
23:17
Speaker 1: idea of a hot meal on the table every night.
23:21
Speaker 1: I would guess that if this was a patient in
23:24
Speaker 1: my office and she was telling me about her life,
23:27
Speaker 1: I would have a very difficult time sifting through all
23:29
Speaker 1: the stories that she was telling to try to determine
23:33
Speaker 1: what the reality of her life was and what she
23:35
Speaker 1: really felt, because living in a fantasy world can be
23:39
Speaker 1: a psychopathology. Some people live their lives that way, and
23:42
Speaker 1: this is just one of those people. You know. Ashley Willcott,
23:45
Speaker 1: judge lawyer, found of child crimewatch dot com. She writes
23:48
Speaker 1: another passage about how she decided to marry her husband.
23:51
Speaker 1: She was taking a bath and she thought he was
23:53
Speaker 1: coming in the bathroom and she called out, Hey, are
23:56
Speaker 1: you coming in here, and he answered, yes, I'm coming,
23:58
Speaker 1: but I'm bringing or Dub. I'm sorry. I mean, you
24:01
Speaker 1: know what, if David Lanche brought me or Darves in
24:04
Speaker 1: the bathtub, I would I would probably shoot him because
24:08
Speaker 1: I think he would be having an affair. I mean,
24:10
Speaker 1: the other day he went to the dentist, and I
24:13
Speaker 1: thought for a split second he had his teeth whitened.
24:16
Speaker 1: I said, you know what, You're in big trouble, young man,
24:19
Speaker 1: because I said, don't be going to get those teeth.
24:21
Speaker 1: What brightened and whitened? And what's that all about? Plus
24:24
Speaker 1: he went on the keytoe diet and he's been working out. Okay,
24:29
Speaker 1: all the red flags are there. I know, Nancy, I
24:31
Speaker 1: don't mean to laugh, but this woman lives in a novel,
24:34
Speaker 1: in a romance novel. The things that she says types
24:38
Speaker 1: is doing and don't contact me. She's so still of drama.
24:41
Speaker 1: Everything she's doing sounds like she's one of her characters.
24:44
Speaker 1: I think that she is quite frankly, a little bit
24:47
Speaker 1: out of her mind and thinks she lives in this book.
24:49
Speaker 1: And oh, I killed my husband and I can continue
24:52
Speaker 1: on because I killed him. Because it's a fascinating, fascinating
24:56
Speaker 1: mindset of this woman. So when it all boils down
24:59
Speaker 1: to the science, who Jane Gourney act full to County
25:01
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner, what role does a bullet trajectory path play
25:08
Speaker 1: in this investigation? We don't know where the gunshot wound
25:12
Speaker 1: is located on his body, so one it could help
25:16
Speaker 1: determine the position that people people are in, so all
25:20
Speaker 1: we can say, relative to the end of the gun,
25:23
Speaker 1: the body was positioned this way. So questions we may
25:26
Speaker 1: be asked at try was could he have been sitting, Yes,
25:29
Speaker 1: it's consistent with that. Could he have you know or
25:31
Speaker 1: we don't know. It could have been a shot to
25:33
Speaker 1: the back of the head that he didn't see literally coming.
25:36
Speaker 1: So those can help the investigation. Well, don't you think,
25:40
Speaker 1: doctor Gourney act if it had been to the back
25:42
Speaker 1: of the head, he would have been dead by the
25:44
Speaker 1: time the students got there. Yes, and no, because we
25:46
Speaker 1: don't know the caliber of the gun, right, so there's
25:48
Speaker 1: a difference between the twenty two versus forty five, right,
25:52
Speaker 1: So depending and those are the pieces of puzzle that
25:55
Speaker 1: are missing. And that's what's so fantastic about medical, legal
25:59
Speaker 1: and death investigation. It's a bunch of puzzle pieces where
26:02
Speaker 1: we see parts of the picture. But once we have
26:05
Speaker 1: all the pieces together, then we can see the total
26:09
Speaker 1: picture and put it together. So depending, like you said, yes,
26:13
Speaker 1: good pending on the gun and strip to the back
26:15
Speaker 1: of the head could have been instantly fatal or depending
26:17
Speaker 1: on how high up low, to the right up down.
26:21
Speaker 1: It can make a world of a world of difference.
26:23
Speaker 1: You know another, Kenya Johnson, I just wish that you
26:28
Speaker 1: had a case like this. Listen to what else she writes, quote,
26:33
Speaker 1: I find it it's easier to wish people dead than
26:35
Speaker 1: to actually kill them. I don't want to worry about
26:38
Speaker 1: blood and brains splattered on my walls. And really I'm
26:42
Speaker 1: not good at remembering lies. Well, it wasn't on her walls.
26:47
Speaker 1: It was at the culinary institute walls, so her home
26:50
Speaker 1: was completely pristine. And who really sits around wishing somebody
26:55
Speaker 1: was dead? Believe me, as you well know, Kenya Johnson.
26:58
Speaker 1: I've had my plenty about most of them in court,
27:02
Speaker 1: a few at TV Networks. But long story short, I
27:07
Speaker 1: honestly do not sit around and have never wished somebody
27:11
Speaker 1: dead or even really given it much thought. It's such
27:13
Speaker 1: a huge waste of time. Well, it goes toward her disposition,
27:17
Speaker 1: her thinking patterns. This is something that she clearly thought
27:20
Speaker 1: about a lot, and this is something that she was
27:23
Speaker 1: capable of doing. Me And see, you're in the crime
27:26
Speaker 1: and punish that business if something helps them, forbid, we're
27:28
Speaker 1: to ba ball your husband. The first person they would
27:31
Speaker 1: look at is you because you've discussed crime all your
27:35
Speaker 1: life or all your career, and so you would know
27:37
Speaker 1: tricks and ways to get under the radar and to
27:41
Speaker 1: perform certain acts. And so this is oh, Kenya, Kenya,
27:45
Speaker 1: You're so funny. Because in my last novel, Murdering the Courthouse,
27:48
Speaker 1: I don't want to give the whole thing away, but
27:50
Speaker 1: one person does make an unfortunate trip to Gatorland or
27:53
Speaker 1: gator World and dies. Well this summer or last spring, right,
27:59
Speaker 1: we went to what is it, Jackie not Disney, the
28:02
Speaker 1: one beside Universal, Yes, Universal, and we just happened to
28:07
Speaker 1: stop by Gatorland. David would not get within ten feet
28:10
Speaker 1: from me the entire time. I wonder why, Hey, guys,
28:14
Speaker 1: listen to this. He was really tough. He was really hard.
28:20
Speaker 1: He would call out some of the flaws that you
28:23
Speaker 1: had so you can correct them. There was a big
28:25
Speaker 1: flood that came down here and it buried a bunch
28:28
Speaker 1: of things. Knowledge, knowledge, beyond belief. You think you come
28:31
Speaker 1: into culinary school like wide eyed, with like the stream
28:34
Speaker 1: of being a chef, and he realizes, like, you can
28:37
Speaker 1: do that, but there's a lot of things you need
28:39
Speaker 1: to know in between. That guy speaking of murder. If
28:42
Speaker 1: you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers, do
28:45
Speaker 1: not miss the new documentaries on Oxygen, The true story
28:48
Speaker 1: of a teen girl, a cheerleader from Mississippi, burned alive
28:53
Speaker 1: and the story of the man accused of the heinous crime.
28:57
Speaker 1: Is the right guy on trial? Who is he? And
29:00
Speaker 1: who is Jessica Chambers? How does such a horrific crime occur?
29:05
Speaker 1: With more questions than answers, It is a case that
29:08
Speaker 1: has captured national headlines, taken over social media, and leaving
29:12
Speaker 1: a small town divided. It is a must see TV event,
29:17
Speaker 1: Unspeakable Crime, The Killing of Jessica Chambers. It premiere is Saturday,
29:22
Speaker 1: September fifteenth, seven sixth Central on Oxygen. New episodes every
29:28
Speaker 1: Saturday on Oxygen, the new network for crime. Death by
29:33
Speaker 1: Pineapple Chutney, peach chutney, rubarb ketchup Today. One cuisine for
29:38
Speaker 1: the rest of my life, I would opt for Time Cuisine.
29:42
Speaker 1: I think I'll look more professional. And you've got that
29:45
Speaker 1: diameter of chicken breast all the way around, nice internal
29:49
Speaker 1: varnish scattered through there. You know, the eye catches all
29:52
Speaker 1: that color in shape as being more flavorful. Wow. If
29:55
Speaker 1: I were not already married and had the twins, I
29:57
Speaker 1: would totally hunt this guy down. Did you hear that,
30:01
Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, reporter with Crime online dot Com. He's talking
30:05
Speaker 1: about his pineapple chutney, his homemade pineapple shutney, about whether
30:11
Speaker 1: the chicken breast or the same size. I think that's
30:14
Speaker 1: what he was talking about. I mean, look, asking about murder,
30:17
Speaker 1: I'm fine, But for me cooking, you put it in
30:19
Speaker 1: the crock pot and then somehow it turns out great
30:22
Speaker 1: in about eight hours. Chuck, I would go after him,
30:25
Speaker 1: but he's dead of a gunshot wound, with no burglary,
30:30
Speaker 1: no robbery, theft from his body, no ransacking. His place
30:36
Speaker 1: of business, the Oregan Culinary Institute. At eight thirty in
30:40
Speaker 1: the morning. Somebody was waiting on him. I mean, typically
30:45
Speaker 1: you don't see break ins and deaths of this manner.
30:49
Speaker 1: Happened first thing in the morning. That's usually happening after midnight. So,
30:52
Speaker 1: Chuck Roberts, what happens now? You've got to find a motive.
30:57
Speaker 1: Why did she do it? Why did she plan this?
31:00
Speaker 1: What was her Did she have an alibi? Was it
31:04
Speaker 1: because he was more successful than she was? Insurance inheritance,
31:10
Speaker 1: spiking her book sales. How did she think she could
31:13
Speaker 1: get away with it assuming she's guilty. Well, another thing
31:16
Speaker 1: to Ashley Wilcot, as you well know, and we've discussed
31:20
Speaker 1: many times, the state has no burden to prove a motive.
31:23
Speaker 1: We don't have to crawl into a killer's mind and
31:27
Speaker 1: stomp around in there in the darkness and the killer's
31:30
Speaker 1: brain and figure out why. Although practically speaking, Ashley, juries
31:34
Speaker 1: want to hear that motive, sure, but they don't have to.
31:36
Speaker 1: Like you said, it just got to show that you
31:38
Speaker 1: have the intent to kill the person. That doesn't matter
31:40
Speaker 1: why you into the guild of person. And so in
31:42
Speaker 1: this particular case, who knows what her motive is? I
31:45
Speaker 1: stand by living in a romance model. I mean, I
31:47
Speaker 1: just don't think there's going to be any motive that
31:49
Speaker 1: we can discover. And who cares? Why If a criminal
31:52
Speaker 1: person does it, and there's evidence to proof beyond a
31:55
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt that they committed the crime, why doesn't matter? Nancy?
31:58
Speaker 1: What about it? Kenny Johnson? Motive necessary? Not necessary? But
32:02
Speaker 1: if the police keep digging, get gonna find something either
32:04
Speaker 1: in the novel and the finances and something she said,
32:07
Speaker 1: and it always helps the jury if they know why
32:10
Speaker 1: the defendant killed the victim. Well another issue to doctor
32:13
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall. We hear in her writing. We read in
32:16
Speaker 1: her writings, even if you marry for money, shouldn't it
32:19
Speaker 1: all be yours? Why would you want to give up
32:21
Speaker 1: everything you've got a lot of husbands go missing on
32:25
Speaker 1: cruise ships. Why not yours? And you know what, maybe
32:29
Speaker 1: even if they had very little money, she would still
32:31
Speaker 1: have wanted to keep it all for herself. But you
32:33
Speaker 1: know what, Hey, people kill over the strangest things. Maybe
32:38
Speaker 1: he forgot to drop an extra strawberry into her class
32:41
Speaker 1: of champagne. Maybe the soufflet didn't rise, Maybe he did
32:45
Speaker 1: not serve her perfectly. Maybe he deviated from the script
32:50
Speaker 1: of her romance novel. You know it can you know,
32:53
Speaker 1: people kill over minor things, not major things. You know,
32:58
Speaker 1: the stories that make it onto your show, you know,
33:00
Speaker 1: are often, you know, when there's a huge insurance policy,
33:04
Speaker 1: or there's a fight over who owns the house or
33:07
Speaker 1: something like that. But what I see in my clinical
33:09
Speaker 1: practice is it's the small, simmering resentments that build up
33:13
Speaker 1: over time, and it's the wish to wall off the
33:16
Speaker 1: other person instead of seeing them as a whole human
33:19
Speaker 1: being with thoughts and feelings and motivations of their own.
33:22
Speaker 1: And you know, one final thing, this is a study
33:24
Speaker 1: in contrast these two. She lives in a fantasy world.
33:28
Speaker 1: He's in reality. He looks at what's on the plate.
33:31
Speaker 1: He looks at the diameter of the chicken breast, he
33:33
Speaker 1: looks at the garnishes. He has a scientific methodology behind
33:37
Speaker 1: the cooking. He cares about his students. I would think
33:41
Speaker 1: that at a very unconscious level, she's envious of him
33:44
Speaker 1: because he's a more evolved human being than she is.
33:47
Speaker 1: Quite frankly, he's a lot nicer, he's a lot more accomplished,
33:50
Speaker 1: and he's living a better life than she has. Well,
33:53
Speaker 1: you know what's interesting, You know when you take into
33:55
Speaker 1: the human dynamic. Brothi's mother, Karen Brophy, says the family
33:59
Speaker 1: is and shock at the fact her daughter in law suspected.
34:04
Speaker 1: And we also learned that they are saying. We're not
34:07
Speaker 1: swayed by the allegations against her. None of us believe it.
34:11
Speaker 1: It's crazy, it's just not true. People that know the
34:14
Speaker 1: couple are shocked because they saw no suggestion of any
34:20
Speaker 1: type of problem between them. A neighbor Heidie Hutchinson, who
34:24
Speaker 1: lives near them, says that she, the suspect, said just
34:29
Speaker 1: this summer, just said her husband's death had lingered and
34:35
Speaker 1: a move seemed her best chance at escape. She said
34:40
Speaker 1: his side of the bedroom was haunting her and the
34:43
Speaker 1: memory of him was upsetting her, and she wanted to
34:46
Speaker 1: move very quickly and get out of the house. What
34:50
Speaker 1: does that mean, doctor Bethany, Because I tried to hold
34:53
Speaker 1: on to every single object, lock of hair, everything I had,
34:57
Speaker 1: of my fiances and of my dad's So this tells
35:01
Speaker 1: me that she is still writing her romance novel right
35:05
Speaker 1: Because she says his side of the bed is haunting me.
35:08
Speaker 1: That has such an idealized quality to it, because, as
35:12
Speaker 1: you just pointed out, when a loved one dies, you
35:15
Speaker 1: want to hold on to every single piece of that
35:19
Speaker 1: person as long as possible. I've had patients tell me
35:22
Speaker 1: after they've lost a spouse or a child that they
35:25
Speaker 1: will sleep with that person's t shirt just because it
35:28
Speaker 1: has the smell of that person on them. But this perpetrator,
35:32
Speaker 1: this alleged perpetrator, is still living in the fantasy world
35:36
Speaker 1: that everybody is going to cling to every word that
35:38
Speaker 1: she's writing, even if it's on Facebook and not in
35:41
Speaker 1: a novel anymore, that his side of the bedroom is
35:44
Speaker 1: haunting her. So one of the things that I know
35:47
Speaker 1: to be true in my field is that reality is curative.
35:50
Speaker 1: If a person does not have a preference for reality,
35:54
Speaker 1: then they are very pathological. And what I see is,
35:57
Speaker 1: despite all these adverse circumstances, despite the fact of appending charges,
36:02
Speaker 1: that this alleged perpetrator is still living in a reality world.
36:06
Speaker 1: I wonder what that reality, if that reality or that
36:09
Speaker 1: fantasy world, is going to come crashing in once she's
36:12
Speaker 1: behind bars. You know, another issue to Ashley Wilcott the
36:16
Speaker 1: mindset it takes to shoot someone you know and have loved,
36:20
Speaker 1: whether you still love them or not, in the face
36:24
Speaker 1: or in the head versus in the chest. You know, Nancy,
36:28
Speaker 1: I can't even and I didn't mean to interrupt you, Nancy,
36:30
Speaker 1: I apologize. I just get excited because I can't even imagine.
36:33
Speaker 1: Even though I'm a judge on the fence and watch
36:35
Speaker 1: trials and hear all the evidence of the crimes that
36:37
Speaker 1: are committed, I cannot imagine the mindset that you would
36:41
Speaker 1: have to have to kill someone, to shoot them in
36:43
Speaker 1: the chest and kill them dead, much less your husband
36:46
Speaker 1: want to kill our husband. Nancy. Let's admit there are
36:48
Speaker 1: times that I think, oh my gosh, I'm gonna kill
36:50
Speaker 1: him if he does that one more time. But we're
36:52
Speaker 1: not literally going to kill them. I cannot imagine the mindset.
36:55
Speaker 1: And again, these gases are outliers. Not everybody's going to
36:58
Speaker 1: murder or shoot their husband. And I just have to say,
37:01
Speaker 1: even with the outline cases, I don't understand the mindset
37:05
Speaker 1: to say, hey, I'm going to shoot this person. I'm
37:07
Speaker 1: going to murder this person. But I think that's what
37:09
Speaker 1: happened here. Listen to this. It is a twist that
37:12
Speaker 1: Dan Brophy students and friends say has them stunned. Tonight,
37:16
Speaker 1: friends of chef Dan Brophy, rocked by his killing, are
37:18
Speaker 1: now reeling with the allegation that Brophy's wife murdered sixty
37:22
Speaker 1: three year old Nancy Crampton. Brophy showed no emotions during
37:25
Speaker 1: her brief court appearance watching the proceedings over the domestic
37:28
Speaker 1: violence murder charges involving her husband unfold That from KATU
37:32
Speaker 1: TV in Portland, We wait as justice unfalls Nancy Grace
37:38
Speaker 1: crime story signing off good Bye friend,