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Leading for Instructional Impact w/Temitope Ray-Odekeye · IB Unplugged

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Welcome to IB Unplugged, a Kognity podcast for IBDP educators
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that tackles your submitted questions and challenges by connecting you with
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experts and peers who share their ideas and stories from real classrooms.
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Hi everybody.
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Welcome to this week's episode of IB Unplugged, where we talk with Temitope
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Ray-Odekeye about leading for instructional impact.
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So we met Temi,
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a few years ago when we were doing an engage event with Kognity,
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and she ran a session about edtech being more student centered and student led.
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And we thought she was just a great presenter.
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And she's had so many different roles at her school since then.
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So we wanted to really bring her back,
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to work with Kognity again to get her on the episode
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and really talk about kind of all of her different
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experiences and ways of leading and coaching in her school.
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Yeah, Temi is going to be talking to us a little bit
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about leading for instructional impact, because in her current role at Al Rayon
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International School in Ghana, she's the MYP coordinator.
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But what we've really unpacked here is that there's this real need for good
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coaching to help drive good curriculum leadership, instructional coaching and
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and building teacher capacity
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so that we can have really wonderful student experiences in the classroom.
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So this episode we're going to be unpacking
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how you can have effective coaching,
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how you can build those trusting relationships,
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and ultimately so that you can create a really wonderful student experience.
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Yeah, I think this is a great episode.
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It touches a lot of different places
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that you can as not only a leader, but as a teacher in your school,
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make really profound, impactful change with your students.
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And I'm really excited to get started.
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So with that, we're going to bring on Temi and get this, episode started.
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Hi, Temi, welcome to IB Unplugged.
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We're so glad you're here.
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Yes, I'm so excited.
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I hope you can see it on my face.
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Yeah, I know we're looking forward to it.
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Really excited to be exploring, you know, the role of curriculum leadership,
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instructional coaching,
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how we can drive meaningful, sustainable improvements in schools.
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I think this is gonna be a great episode for for all of our listeners.
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But let's first dive in with a couple of warm up questions
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and help people get to know you a little bit,
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because I know that you're involved in you know, seeing
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what happens within schools and offering good coaching and whatnot.
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And part of that includes walking into classrooms and seeing what's happening.
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So when you walk into a classroom and you see
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great learning, what do you notice first?
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I think the first thing I would notice is the energy.
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Is the energy in the room.
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Seeing students and teachers,
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you know, actively engaging in the learning process.
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It's not just about, you know, being busy, but you see students thinking,
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and they have thinking strategies to follow.
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You see students presenting and they know how to present.
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You see students engaging in guided inquiry.
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The teacher is not necessarily in front of the classroom,
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but you see that the teacher is ready for the class and
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the position
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of the teacher in the classroom doesn't actually determine control.
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You see, and I see a sense of, you know, psychological safety.
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The students feel safe in that space.
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They are safe to share their learning.
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Share your thoughts, ask questions. Yes.
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So I'm looking for two things that energy and safety.
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What is one of the best pieces of feedback that you've ever received
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as either educator or a eader?
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I have a lot. I don't even know which to use.
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Okay, so
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there was this feedback I got from a student.
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It was the last day of the IBDP exams, and we usually have
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the senior lunch, you know, to congratulate the students.
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And she came up to me and said she remembers
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clearly what I told her when she was in year seven.
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I told her that I believed in her, and I knew that she had potentials,
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and she can do anything as long as she sets her mind to it.
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The interesting thing is, I also remember seeing it.
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But I was surprised that it stayed with us for this long.
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Yeah.
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You see, and it just goes to show that as educators, sometimes you don't
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see the immediate impact of what you do or what you see, you see.
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But yeah, it's kind of stay with students for a long time and it can really shape
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the humans, they become at the end of the day.
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I'm not going to lie, when you said that, I got a little bit panicked
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because sometimes I'll have a soon be like, do you remember what you told me
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the first time we met?
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And I'm like, oh God, no, what did I say?
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So I'm
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so glad it had a positive ending on that one, too.
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What do you mean with the senior lunch?
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Is this, like a celebratory thing that you do, like, once?
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Tell me about that. What does that look like?
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So we have a senior lunch where we have the teachers and the students and,
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yes, the school leaders in the room having lunch together.
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And the students kind of organize the whole events.
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They reflect on the years they've spent together, you know,
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because our school is a, an IB continuum school.
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So it's from EYP all the way to IBCP,
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and you would have pictures of students when they were babies.
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So all those moments,
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field trips from years past, they bring all of these things together.
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And you know, it's a senior lunch, but we end up crying a lot.
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It's like a
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it's a parting ceremony before the actual graduation.
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That sounds really,
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really impactful, like a great way to cultivate some good culture there.
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Yeah. Nice.
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Well, okay, let's let's dive in.
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I know we got a few parts we want to talk about here.
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And this first part we want to look into is that curriculum leadership
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instructional coaching and how we can use that to drive improvement.
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And you know, I think most leaders now are thinking about ways that coaching
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can be used in their in their practices and how we can inspire through coaching.
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So I'm wondering if you could just kind of unpack that for us.
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First off, how can coaching move us beyond observation feedback?
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Here's what I noticed. Here's what look good that sort of stuff.
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But really to truly shift classroom practice.
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Good.
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First of all, the question is why coaching?
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You see, research shows that when teachers go for this one of trainings, it's
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not really impactful,
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because they go to that place to learn everything and voom back to reality.
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And nothing actually changes.
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Sometimes they’re actually willing to change, but then the systems,
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the structures around them don't afford them the opportunity.
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And so they just, you know, slip back to the old ways.
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Now you have coaching.
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And for coaching
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not to look like, just observation and feedback.
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We have to understand that it has to be done with teachers, not to teachers.
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Right?
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So in the beginning of the year you look at goal setting.
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So the coaches with the teacher asking what goals I was setting this year,
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what do we want to achieve this year.
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And it has to be linked to, students learning.
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You know, the impact has to be on the student, right?
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So after goal setting, we go to core teaching.
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Having to enter the classroom
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with the teacher and co-teach,
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helps the teacher understand.
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It’s not like saying
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oh, these are the list of different strategies that you have to use.
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And yeah, go do it. See?
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So goal setting, co-teaching and joint reflection,
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is not saying you should have done this instead of that or that.
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It's asking why did you do this.
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I remember I was observing
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a teacher
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is a visiting teacher.
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I was observing him and he did so many things in the classroom that were lovely.
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But you know,
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I sat down at the back and I asked myself, why is he doing all of these things?
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Is he just to wow me?
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Certainly none of us do that.
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But then I said, okay, let me.
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I asked to sit with him for a couple of minutes.
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I said, you you showed me a lot of teaching strategies.
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I love that the students were fully engaged.
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But I really want to know why you did this and that and that.
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I kept asking, and he gave me the reasons why he did it,
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even though I thought I knew the reasons, which were also very good reasons.
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You give me even better reasons why he did it.
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And you see, and I just loved it.
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So it's important to ask why assume the best intent and ask, why did you do this?
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And then together you can, you know, guide the teacher
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towards improvement.
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So goal setting, co-teaching, joint reflection.
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What I loved about what you just said
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is that it's with the teacher, not to the teacher or at the teacher.
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I'm also just very briefly on that, talk to me about
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like how coaches are determined.
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Is it, is it just like
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I'm in a role of leadership and therefore I am a coach as well?
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Or is there more like kind of, you know, there's there's parity in terms of
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these are my colleagues and I can kind of choose a coach.
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What's what's the best way about that? Okay.
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So another question again is why?
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What are you coaching about or what are you watching for?
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So if you have your school vision and mission so you know what
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you want to achieve at the school, how do we get there?
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So who gets trained to be a coach for this or that?
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For example, I’m an edtech coach.
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You can have an instructional coach that is focusing
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on concept based inquiry, for example, you see?
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So when do I step in, when does she step in or he step in, see?
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So we have coaches that help train the teachers.
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Not so it's like oh everybody we have we have 15 people going for a workshop.
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No one person goes to the workshop, gets equipped, you know,
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has deeper understanding of what whatever it is
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and then goes on to work with the teachers,
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which is something that is usually missing in many, many trainings.
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So you continue to work with the teacher to get them to
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where you want them to be. Nice.
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Okay, so we have specific people that are trained to be coaches and
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and of course, apart from training to be, an expert in that,
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pedagogical area, it's also training to be a coach.
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You have to learn to be a coach, to be able to coach anyone.
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Yeah, it's it's the same thing as a teacher.
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Just because you know a lot
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about a subject doesn't mean that you can actually go and teach it.
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It's the same concept. And I think sometimes,
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it's really
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easy to be really good at teaching students.
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And then the second that we talk about
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teaching teachers, all of the strategies that everybody knows
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that are really important to learning are just out the window.
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It's like, now you're grown ups.
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You should you should be able to handle this on your own.
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I think it's so much of it,
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about teaching teachers is even harder than teaching students,
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because you also have this layer of change management,
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that is, I think, hugely important when it comes to any kind of professional
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development of there are a lot of people who actually don't
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want to change,
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or they don't feel like they are equipped
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to, like you said before of like just going to one session.
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You can't just magically change what you've been doing for ten years.
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It's really a process and a flow that you kind of have to follow teachers.
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And for what she said,
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what I do is I ask
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myself, who are the early adopters?
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Who are the late adopters?
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You don't just go on with change and, you know, push it out to everyone.
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Some people would adopt.
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They would adopt as early as possible than others.
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So don't waste your energy on those people.
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Start with those that would.
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And then you see the change keeps trickling out and everybody says,
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okay, this is like a big change. Everybody's changing, right?
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So then you go onto the later adopters and do it off.
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Of course, I've started noticing that change around them.
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They would they would change at the end of the day.
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Exactly.
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We see that with Kognity all the time, where we have a school that starts in
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and you have this one teacher who is really, really excited about it,
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and they're like, I'm going to be the one to change it at your school.
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You're like, great, I love you.
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Let's be friends.
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Let's get you to be the one who then the other teachers at the school,
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they're going to trust that person way more then they're going to trust me.
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I don't know you.
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I don't know about you, but I know your classroom to this person
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and if you are seeing the positive impact in your classroom,
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all right, then maybe I'll be willing to try it.
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I mean, what are we can get here?
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Actually, it kind of brings up a question that I had
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when you were just talking there, Temi,
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about, you said assume positive intent intent
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and then ask why when you're coming in having those coaching sessions.
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And I was thinking about that because
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sometimes, especially if you're with teachers who have been here
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for a long time, they might feel maybe a little bit attacked or something.
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What is this person going to tell me about this?
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How does it kind of go
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from I'm being evaluated and therefore I may or may not be meeting
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the mark of what we're supposed to do, but rather to really build that trust.
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So that coaching is seen as like a mutually beneficial thing,
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so that as a team, we're all getting better.
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How do you kind of get into that
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so that people feel like it's a valuable trust building thing as well?
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And, you know, trust is the foundation for every coaching.
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If there's no trust,
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teachers will just be performing.
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They'll be performing for you in the classroom, and
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it will not be meaningful.
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And for trust to happen.
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First of all, you have to define rules.
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The coach cannot even be the supervisor.
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And so that's why I said systems have to be in place.
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Now if the systems are not quite in place,
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you would have this, person wearing different hats and
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you can't tell me who you are.
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I already know who you are at the end of the day. Right?
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And so if the coach is not a evaluator and the
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the teacher first has a sense of safety.
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So this person is not coming to evaluate me and
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as the coach, if you're working together with the teacher
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from the onset, seeing that we are setting goals,
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we need to know why we are setting goals for example, what's the school's mission?
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What's the vision? Where are we?
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See if I as a leader, if I am just telling everybody to everybody, come, let's go
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this way. Some people be like, why are we going where we are going?
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You see?
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But if I let you know that we are going here
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because of this and this and this and we have to go together,
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some people would even be running ahead of me.
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That's who a good leader is, right?
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So if teachers understand that we are the school together
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and we have this mission and we have this vision,
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and to achieve it, we need to do one, two, three,
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they feel a
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sense, there's a sense of belonging,
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community.
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And then they feel like, yes, I have to be,
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I have to do this and this to get here for the mission to be accomplished.
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Right?
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So they feel that they are a part of the system.
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And then as a coach,
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if you want to build trust you need to listen more.
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When a teacher knows that my coach listens, that actually listens to me,
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before you know it, the teacher would also be listening.
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And please don't forget that we have early adopters.
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So you need to also know that trust is not built like in a minute, right?
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It takes time.
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It takes time.
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But both parties need to be willing to work on it.
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Teacher would only be willing if they feel that they are part of the system.
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As I was listening to you, I was thinking a lot of you know what if?
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What if, for whatever reason, trust has been broken in an area
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and you're trying to reestablish that?
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And I guess if I take from what you're just saying,
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it sounds like you've got to realign with, here's the mission of our school.
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This is this is what we
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all asigned, are all aligned with.
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What we've agreed with is what we want to do.
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And therefore, so far, I guess we see that this is probably the next step.
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Let's let's engage in that.
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I don't know if, you know, most US model of change,
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it talks about some important elements that must be in place
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for change to happen, the mission on the vision, resources and all of that.
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Even if trust is broken,
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we need to come back to the table to ask why.
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Yeah.
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What part of the puzzle is missing?
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How can we bring it back?
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Because for everything that happens with the teacher when it comes to coaching
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or a process of change, there's a reason.
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Well, sometimes maybe leaders are not listening enough.
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If a teacher is frustrated, there's a reason.
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If a teacher is depressed, helpless, there's a reason. See?
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And that model of change tells us if this is missing.
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This is what happens. If this is missing, this is what happens, right?
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So even if trust is broken, we can come together through joint reflection,
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make new goals, set new goals,
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and still again on the process of building trust.
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It can be broken.
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But yeah, we should be willing to build it again.
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Yeah.
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And I think one thing that's really easy to say
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and sometimes a lot harder to practice, is this idea of always like,
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I think we said it before of assuming positive intent and really being like,
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there's a good reason behind what they're doing.
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Like it's so easy to want to embrace the early adopters
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and be like, well, John over here has already been doing this
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since I introduced it, and he's the gold star student.
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And then you have a bad attitude and you don't want to change.
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And I think that it's it's really hard to take that step
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and be like, this person doesn't want to change for good reasons.
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Maybe sometimes they don't.
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But as the coach or as the leader,
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thinking about it in the perspective of, I'm going to assume
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that there's a good reason why this happened, I'm going to try,
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like you said, to get to the why and understand what the barriers are.
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And sometimes the barriers are on you as the coach
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or the leader, and it's actually not a them thing.
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It's a you thing.
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It's it's
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that you've been asking me to do this, but actually my computer doesn't even work.
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Yeah.
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If we're talking about the resourcing
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side, like you're asking me to do something and like, look at the tool
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that you're giving me to do it like this is not reasonable, or it's,
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because I don't have the capacity or I'm not comfortable
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or confident in this, like, there are so many different reasons,
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but not putting people in a bucket of
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the, what are they called again?
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The resistors, I think.
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The resistors. Exactly.
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That's what it is. And it's like, not writing off the resistors as,
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yeah, as like, forget them.
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They're never going to change, but really trying to understand
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what's going on there and what's in your control.
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I guess what I'm hearing a lot of is it's really important as a coach
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to be open and inquisitive more than like, I have the answers.
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Let me tell you what they are. Is that correct?
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Yes. You're right, open minded.
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An active listener.
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Because we are all adults.
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I know you're not listening to me. See?
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So yeah, that's
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an active listener.
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Yes. Yeah.
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It goes a long way for teachers to feel safe in this space.
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And of course, we have people,
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in the school environments that would resist change.
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It's interesting because, you know, it's a fine mix
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of all of these people that make the whole school, right?
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And these people also have their good sides.
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It's just that change that they are resistant.
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So there will be reasons why.
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And we have to get there together.
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And we also have to understand or know when to step back and see
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this person is a late adopter,
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this person is a laggard,
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they will get that eventually, but we still keep
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preaching the school mission and school vision.
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And so everybody knows this is where I am at.
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And remember this ongoing reflection and goal setting every year.
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So of course, of course
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the laggard would definitely know that I have some goals pending goals
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that I have not yet set.
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So they'll come they eventually. Yeah.
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And if need be that decisions need to be made as long as
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a coach is not in that space.
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Okay.
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So save the face of the coach evaluators if you are thinking
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about hiring or firing, the coach should not be in that space.
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I want to move us into our second segment here,
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which is on building teacher capacity and professional culture.
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And I think one thing we've talked about
20:04
of having the kind of different teachers and the coaches,
20:07
all working together and really like
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putting an even playing field, but how do you think that leaders can create
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a culture of continuous improvement among teachers?
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You know, I mentioned, goal setting previously.
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It's not just on the coach to say, let's set goals.
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The school itself should have a system for setting goals,
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because if it's a coach thing, it means that
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if the coach is not there, then it doesn't happen.
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As a school, what systems do we have in place
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for professional development or professional growth with teachers?
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See if you see if this thing comes from up.
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It's easy.
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And teachers know that it's not just a coach trying to distort my peace.
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Right. It's a school thing. Right? So,
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looking at the nonstop model of change and,
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as leader, as we say, this is our mission.
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We lead sessions where we unpack
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the school mission and vision.
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So for all the teachers in the classroom or in the school,
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what does it mean to leave the mission in your classroom?
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What will it take
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to make the mission come alive?
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You see, so when we ask these important questions together, right?
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And then we say, if I don't know that
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I need this training, I'm not going to make use of it.
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But if I know that I need this training
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and I know what impact it will bring, then I'll be willing to go on it.
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I've seen cases where schools just register a group of teachers
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go, go get trained. Why?
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I don't see why. See?
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So those discussions have to be meet.
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And when teachers know and when it comes to professional growth,
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it also means that when I grow, how will you pat me on the back?
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Are you putting me on my head? How would you say well done?
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Okay, so do I have a portfolio?
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Do we as a school have a system where teachers build portfolios?
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See? And teachers know that
22:15
if I do this oh I'm growing
22:18
right professionally and I can put it here to show my group.
22:21
See all of these things have to be in place, if coaching would work.
22:23
Coaching is beautiful but it can become frustrating
22:27
if you don't have systems or structures in place to ensure that it’s afective.
22:31
Yeah. How regularly do you,
22:35
because I totally agree with you that if you just do kind of one training
22:38
in the beginning of the year and then nothing again,
22:40
it's not going to stick, practically speaking, for you at your school,
22:44
what is the kind of regularity that you've created?
22:47
Okay. So, we have,
22:50
a teaching and learning coordinator,
22:52
and she's basically monitoring trainings, workshops that teachers, go for.
22:58
And teachers have to do some reflection after the training to ask
23:02
what are the next steps?
23:03
And if it's a group of teachers going to sit together to discuss.
23:08
So so we learned this I learned this, you learned this.
23:10
What's the next step? What are we going to do?
23:12
When are we going to meet again to talk about it?
23:14
What are you going to do?
23:15
What am I going to do?
23:17
How would we know that it was if, effective?
23:20
So how are we going to measure impact. Right?
23:22
So we ask this difficult questions because sometimes it's like oh
23:26
you're taking time out of my free time to have this extra meeting.
23:30
But well we all know that that's how it happens.
23:33
Right?
23:33
So after that training you go for these discussions and then you have
23:37
you do something about it. And then
23:40
we are
23:41
also ready to allow you share your best practices.
23:45
So you did it. It's worked.
23:46
Oh, you're ready to share, right?
23:48
And so we give you that space to share, see?
23:51
And all of these things work together for the good of the teacher.
23:55
And so when we say it's time to train,
23:56
some people even come up to say, you know what?
23:58
I need this training, based on reflection.
24:00
So this is just what I say.
24:01
I need this training, I want where can I get it?
24:03
How can I get it? And then we help.
24:05
Yeah.
24:05
What I like about that is you've clarified that there's like the the importance of,
24:09
okay, here's as our school mission, this is what we want to do.
24:11
And then you're allowing teachers kind of reflect and say,
24:13
this is a training that I need or I want to go on or I,
24:16
you know, I've identified, let's say, okay, we want to do inquiry based learning
24:20
in really positive ways, but I feel like I don't really know how to do it.
24:23
Therefore, I want to go on this training here
24:25
and at the same time, I'm remembering what you said earlier with regard
24:28
to like sometimes these one off workshops don't work so well,
24:31
and then they come back and you're like, the context doesn't fit.
24:34
So I'm kind of wondering like how how do you set up that professional
24:38
learning to have sustainable, high quality teaching that that carries on beyond
24:43
that sort of IB workshop or whatever it might have been, so that it actually
24:47
is contextually specific, contextually rich,
24:49
and then that that teacher really feels like I'm able to implement
24:52
something positive here?
24:53
If it is aligned to your mission, for example. Okay.
24:57
As a school,
24:58
we've agreed that the basic
25:03
form of teaching
25:04
and learning should happen in a classroom is concept based inquiry.
25:08
And we've identified research that backs this up.
25:13
Right?
25:14
So now that we know that, we know that everybody needs to get trained
25:18
to get to that basic, some teachers can do even higher can bring up.
25:23
It's okay.
25:23
But the basic that's quality assurance, right?
25:26
That's the basic that everybody should get good.
25:28
Now we know it's it's it's also it's identifying
25:32
what's important, what's priority because you can have differential readings.
25:37
And the problem is if schools don't
25:41
order them according to what's important and what's not important,
25:44
you'll be wasting money and nothing will happen.
25:47
So we, you know, this is what is important.
25:49
This is this is good, but it's not important right now.
25:52
And then you can go on this training and then together.
25:55
And I like it when it's a cohort. Right?
25:58
And it can also be
26:00
just one person if the person is very interested in that area.
26:04
And as soon, for example, like I said, there's a basic level for everybody,
26:07
but there are some people that will go higher.
26:09
And for those people that will go higher because,
26:11
well, look at that professional growth plan
26:12
where you can have professional development differentiation.
26:15
You should be able to help them extend.
26:17
And these people can come back to share best practices.
26:20
So it's it's really
26:23
it's a collaborative thing.
26:24
I can't tell you
26:25
that one person is in charge of doing it's everybody together, see?
26:29
And understanding that everybody's voice matters
26:31
when it comes to teacher training and teacher development.
26:34
Okay?
26:34
So together you agree on what is important and then you move on from there.
26:40
And when you get there, be ready to reflect and look at how
26:43
it impacts students learning.
26:45
Students are also very important stakeholders.
26:47
So they need to tell you what's happening whether it's good or not.
26:50
Right?
26:52
If not the most important point.
26:54
Yeah. Right? Yeah.
26:55
The ones are the center of the whole thing.
26:58
Yeah.
26:58
No there's a lot of parts of that that I really like.
27:00
And I think there's one that I could
27:01
probably, we could probably have an entire different episode on.
27:04
But like this idea of also being really intentional
27:09
about the people who want to go further, because I think that that's something
27:12
we've seen a lot with teachers where they don't feel like there's
27:16
this clear career trajectory if they don't want to go into administration,
27:21
and it's this idea that you can have continuous growth in continuous learning.
27:26
And how do you champion
27:28
doing not
27:29
just that bare minimum, but wanting to go deeper,
27:32
wanting to learn more, but then bringing it back into the school
27:36
where you're not necessarily an administrator or in a title,
27:41
a leader, but you're championing someone to be a leader in this particular thing.
27:46
I think is such an important part there, too. Yeah.
27:49
And now, please, when it comes to, professional growth,
27:53
we understand that not everybody needs to be a leader.
27:58
Like a leader, MYP coordinator, the school principal.
28:03
We can be leaders in different areas.
28:05
If you decide that you want to go into the research area.
28:08
So you want to. Yeah.
28:10
Do more research about,
28:12
learning or different aspects of teaching and learning.
28:14
You can do that. You're a leader.
28:17
Or you want to be you want to lead in a specific area.
28:20
So for example you want to learn more about UDL and you want to champion video.
28:25
And then you keep learning about UDL.
28:27
So structures again.
28:28
So what structure is in place for professional growth.
28:31
I think as a teacher when I'm in this space, an educational space,
28:35
I look at, I look around me to ask, how big
28:39
can I grow here before I know if I'm going to drop my bags
28:42
and seats or not? How big versus was the growth space?
28:46
Like how can I?
28:47
How far can I expand like tentacles?
28:50
Because if not, then I'll be,
28:53
leaving will be difficult. Yeah.
28:54
So when I know that I can grow there, then I stay.
28:56
And it sounds like it's really important to understand
28:58
just as even size, that growth doesn't necessarily mean you have to kind of go up
29:01
the administrative ladder or something like that.
29:03
It's clarifying that, you know, we can meet anybody at any
29:06
point of their career with what they want to do next.
29:10
And so, I'm thinking now, like, okay, there's the teacher
29:13
that's been teaching for 25, 30 years, loves it, actually still wants to stay
29:17
in, isn't just waiting for retirement, but wants to still kind of grow.
29:22
If I'm taking on what you're saying so far, to me,
29:24
it sounds like you've got to have a close collaboration with each of the teachers
29:28
to understand what their next goals might be, to try to help and encourage them.
29:32
But I'm wondering,
29:33
how do you how do you kind of extract that maybe from
29:36
those that are still in education but kind of feel like,
29:39
you know, I've, I'm settled and I don't necessarily want to push beyond this.
29:43
Like how do we kind of get them going as well. Right.
29:46
Because education changes it. Yes. It develops.
29:48
It does change.
29:49
Let me give you an example first.
29:53
She was with the support department, you know,
29:58
ensuring that the classes are conducive for students to learn
30:03
and she completed her education
30:07
in teaching, and she came back to become a teaching assistant
30:12
in the same school.
30:13
See? And let's take my journey,
30:15
for example.
30:16
I started as a middle school science teacher and high school biology teacher.
30:21
I became an edtech coach cause I was really passionate about technology.
30:26
I was there for a long time and then I became
30:29
MYP coordinator and I was like, I'm bored.
30:32
And then
30:34
I became the,
30:39
I'm still part of the,
30:41
service learning lead team.
30:44
And I enjoy all of these hats,
30:46
and I'm not the edtech coach currently, but
30:49
you can still come to me for your technology problems.
30:52
And you see, but it's that's it's having that space
30:56
to ask these questions and even having that space to know that you can,
31:01
you can speak about
31:04
what you want to do, even if you are not asked.
31:07
If you know that you have the space to share your opinion,
31:09
share your thoughts, then yes, you would grow.
31:12
Okay, so for us, for us, for people that,
31:17
seem like nothing is happening
31:19
and nothing is changing, we asked them the questions.
31:23
The people in charge of asking these questions actually ask us questions,
31:27
and you'd be surprised to hear that even the head of department
31:31
in a particular department might say, you know what?
31:32
I don't want to be the head of department anymore.
31:36
You don't push people to get roles.
31:39
They need to be interested in the role if you are going to see impacts.
31:42
Right?
31:43
So asking them, are you sure you're comfortable in this role?
31:46
I don't think I'm comfortable. Okay. Then it's okay.
31:49
Yeah. And I'm seeing where you know that question could be
31:50
would be it's so important.
31:52
And it's critical to just say hey,
31:54
when you got in this role, is this kind of what you hoped for?
31:56
I've been doing it for a little while. Is this what you're aiming for?
31:59
Is it still feel like it's part of your your passion, what you want?
32:03
But I'm also recognizing
32:04
you can't ask that question unless there is a solid level
32:08
of what we were talking about before.
32:09
Trust and openness and culture around the idea of like,
32:12
I'm not being attacked right now or somebody is not coming at me saying
32:16
you're not doing the job, but rather just kind of extracting from them
32:20
what we're
32:21
kind of the things that you set out to do when you became head of department.
32:25
And has that come to fruition?
32:26
Are they, you know, that sort of stuff?
32:29
Are there ways that you kind of extract that in a non-threatening manner? Yes.
32:35
And it's true discomfort.
32:36
See, if you are listening well, you get the answers
32:40
you need.
32:41
And all you have to do is ask follow up questions.
32:44
At the end of the day, when it's all about communication.
32:48
So it's how you ask these questions, okay?
32:51
And how you show empathy when there is need to be empathetic.
32:56
Right.
32:57
So when you ask these questions and you ask follow up questions, and
33:02
because the truth of the matter is if they're not telling you
33:05
do be seeing it in another space.
33:07
And it kind of affects the atmosphere of the environment.
33:12
Yeah.
33:13
So you want you you don't want your late adopters
33:16
or laggards to,
33:20
negatively influence the early adopters.
33:22
So, so these discussions are happening whether you like it or not.
33:27
So I think as leaders, we should be ready to take
33:30
on these conversations with grace.
33:32
Yeah okay.
33:34
And have them often, because mindsets change.
33:39
So we should also know that people are not constants.
33:40
They are they are thoughts. Yesterday might not be the same today.
33:43
You keep asking those questions.
33:44
At my workplace we do this a lot.
33:46
Are you still interested in continuing with us for the next two years?
33:49
You know, if you're not, do you want to talk about it?
33:53
It's really important to know these things.
33:56
And yeah, to encourage these conversations,
34:00
let them know that there's space to discuss.
34:02
And I think that there's kind of two elements that make it a safe space of one,
34:08
there has to be vulnerability from the leader's part too, where it feels like
34:13
if I say I'm not having a
34:15
nice time right now, it's okay, because they might also be like,
34:20
nobody shows up and is like, I love my job so much every day
34:23
of the every day of the year.
34:25
It's everything's perfect.
34:26
And like letting a bit of that show from your end can also go a long way
34:31
where they then it's like, if I say,
34:34
I don't love this hat right now,
34:37
they don't think I'm bad at my job
34:41
or they don't think, oh, well, then he probably shouldn't have that hat.
34:44
It's like, okay, that's cool.
34:46
What can we do to change it?
34:47
And I think that's the second part is like being willing to do something about it.
34:52
When somebody
34:55
says, I'm not having a good time with this or I'm struggling with this, like, if,
35:00
if, you're my leader and I'm like, I'm not doing well with this job right now.
35:06
Like I'm overwhelmed and I'm not giving it the energy that I wish that I could.
35:10
And you were like,
35:11
sucks.
35:13
And then we moved on.
35:14
And then it's like, why did I even bother showing that vulnerability?
35:19
It's like, you're not going to help me with it.
35:21
It's better off if we just don't even talk about it.
35:23
So I think those are two really important pieces.
35:26
And as a coach, it's I said that it's important
35:29
that you listen because you might just be that savior.
35:32
Right?
35:33
I remember that I was having a discussion with someone and she said,
35:36
you know what, I don't know why I got this class.
35:39
I was really hoping to get the other class,
35:43
but there's nothing that can be done because the timetables have been set.
35:46
And I was like, no, something can be done about it, let's talk about it.
35:48
And she was like, no, no, no,
35:50
I still want to talk about it.
35:52
And even though the system was in place, they said, oh, why not?
35:56
We thought she wasn't interested
35:57
because you mentioned
35:58
two years ago that she doesn't want to work with that age group,
36:02
but it looks like two years after she changed her mind, see?
36:05
And they made the change,
36:08
and I didn't even know they made the change until I saw a message
36:10
on my phone saying, thank you so much, because she knew she said
36:14
this thing to someone and someone did something about it, right?
36:18
So it's beyond just listening.
36:21
When I say activities, I'm not saying she just show the body language.
36:24
Okay. Okay. No, it's beyond that.
36:26
You have to do something about it.
36:28
Okay. And as a coach,
36:30
you you have a better relationship with the ones up there, right?
36:34
You should be able to have this difficult discussions,
36:36
if the teacher is not even in the space
36:37
to have this difficult discussions with them.
36:40
Are you an IB educator wanting
36:42
to improve your practice and needing just a bit more support getting there?
36:46
Ever wanted to learn more about a specific aspect of the diploma program?
36:50
Or just ask a question to an educational theorist about a specific IB aspect?
36:54
IB Unplugged is the place for you.
36:57
Simply visit kognity.com/ibunplugged to submit your question to us,
37:01
and have your question explored in more detail in an upcoming episode.
37:05
And now, back to the show.
37:09
Let's, let's get into kind of this other, part.
37:11
I guess we want to kind of move into this idea of like interdisciplinary
37:14
learning and service in real world connection.
37:16
And I guess what I love about what we've talked about so far is
37:19
it is all essentially focused on creating great learning experiences
37:22
for, for young people.
37:23
And we know that if we're taking care
37:25
of the teachers in the room and we're creating a good culture of the school,
37:29
then ultimately
37:29
the learning experiences of young people are going to be improved as well.
37:33
And I know, Temi, you know, you championed interdisciplinary learning
37:36
and it has to connect curriculum to real world contexts.
37:41
I wonder if you could just share
37:42
what does that look like in practice at your school?
37:44
Do you have any examples of how that works really well, yeah.
37:47
And talking about interest on shifting interest, I think that's where I am
37:51
right now.
37:52
Interdisciplinary learning,
37:54
community engagement and service learning.
37:57
At our school,
37:59
first of all, why interdisciplinary learning?
38:02
In real life, problems are not set in silos
38:05
or problems are not subject based.
38:08
So it means that if you're helping students
38:11
to prepare for the world out there, they need to know that
38:15
things connects.
38:17
There are connections and they need to see these connections.
38:19
Right.
38:20
So it's it's embedded in real intentional.
38:27
It was it our scrutiny looking at the curriculum and asking where,
38:33
we have in alignment, where are we having connections
38:36
and if it means even changing, adjusting.
38:39
Don't be scared to take risks, okay? Because at the end of the day,
38:41
you are trying to improve students learning, right?
38:43
So we we made a lot of changes till we got to this point.
38:47
We had to think about students are leaving the PYP.
38:51
That's the primary school.
38:52
And it was all Lennon was transdisciplinary.
38:56
And then they come to the MYP that's interdisciplinary.
38:59
Go into the DP, that's disciplinary.
39:02
How do you help students to see connections?
39:06
We looked at the curriculum and said, you know what?
39:08
If a student who was in one class all his life ends up
39:12
in a different program where they have to move
39:14
to different classes and hear different things.
39:17
They need to see connections,
39:18
because when it comes to learning, it's about the brain
39:21
and the neural connections that you make.
39:23
You need to eat the brains and make the right neural connections, right.
39:26
So we had to rearrange topics,
39:29
rearrange units to ensure that these connections actually exist.
39:33
And then after that,
39:36
it was a hard bring them to task to collaborate.
39:38
Because sometimes in secondary
39:39
school, teachers are in their faces and they don't want to move.
39:42
Right.
39:42
So looking at the no standard model of change
39:45
again, we need training. Okay.
39:47
So we got training and I was there with them before the training.
39:52
We had taken risks to do some interdisciplinary learning.
39:56
And of course we reflected and we knew, oh, we're not good here.
39:59
Why not good. Yeah. Then we went for training.
40:01
But we see we know why we are going for training and we went for training.
40:04
We did a training and teachers came up saying, I have a link, I know a link.
40:09
I can connect with you, I can connect with you.
40:10
And yeah, they had this discussions going on
40:13
and now we have this wonderful interdisciplinary experiences.
40:17
In year seven, for example, there's an interdisciplinary link
40:20
between language and literature and visual arts,
40:25
and they
40:26
look at how storytellers and artists
40:30
write or make art,
40:34
looking at the stories of others.
40:36
Right.
40:37
So students learn how to write fictional stories and they learn how to
40:41
make art.
40:43
I don't know what it is now is a realistic art or something.
40:46
And they were learning together.
40:49
They come into their English class and they're driving together
40:53
to get, one essential understanding.
40:57
And in the art room, they are doing the same thing.
40:59
The connection keeps happening, the skills they are developing the same.
41:03
They are using it here. They are coming back here.
41:04
They even have in tasks.
41:05
They are completing in the visual art room that you have to take to the language
41:08
and literature class. And then they go, go to
41:12
an orphanage home
41:13
in Accra here, sorry in Ghana
41:16
where they interview the children there to learn about their stories,
41:22
hoping to get inspired to make an artwork or write a story.
41:28
Right. And they do all of that.
41:29
They come back
41:32
and they make this digital anthology of stories
41:36
with the theme of hope and artworks with a theme of hope.
41:40
So as parents, you come into that exhibition room
41:43
and you see all of this beautiful artworks on display,
41:46
and you see this, so you hear this wonderful stories
41:49
and, you know, it's stemming from a place, right?
41:52
But you see the connection house and I know that I can use I can use arts
41:56
meaningfully and powerfully, and I can also use stories to send
41:59
a message of hope.
42:00
That's in year seven and in year eight, they are looking at,
42:05
our responsibilities as,
42:07
humans to protect the environment, sciences and humanities.
42:11
Right.
42:11
They are looking at our responsibilities in humanities.
42:14
They are looking at the impact of human activities in sciences.
42:18
You see, they do all of that.
42:20
And for community engagement, they are going to be engaging in,
42:23
tree planting exercises.
42:25
In collaboration with the Rotary Club and Ghana Forestry Commission.
42:30
See, working with.
42:31
So it's like they know that there's this general you know, this,
42:35
I don't know widely known saying that, children are leaders of tomorrow.
42:39
What's happening to today?
42:41
They are leaders of today.
42:43
So how do you help children to see
42:47
that they can make a change with what they are learning?
42:50
Before you know it, what happens is, you see what I notice.
42:52
I was telling my colleague recently that with all of these happening
42:57
there, actually the students are actually interested in coming to school.
43:02
Because of all of these activities, knowing
43:04
that I'm not just learning for an exam, but I'm learning to make a change.
43:07
And even if I don't make the change immediately, I'm learning to seek change.
43:11
Right?
43:12
So it makes learning meaningful.
43:15
It makes learning enjoyable, engaging.
43:17
And students want to come to school.
43:19
Temi, I love hearing that.
43:20
I'm super inspired by it because yeah, it's exactly as you say.
43:23
It's a really meaningful, intentional, achievable kind of thing that
43:27
is going to build well-being.
43:29
It is going to build student belonging.
43:31
It is going to build
43:32
inclusion practices and helping students see things beyond an exam.
43:35
And and I love if I connect what we've spoken about in the previous
43:39
two parts to this one, you can see where that horizontal planning
43:43
and that horizontal curriculum alignment of your different teachers has to include
43:47
a trusting relationship and a good coach that's kind of pulling out.
43:50
Hey, I'm not saying there's anything wrong
43:52
with the way you've designed your curriculum right now.
43:54
That's great.
43:56
And there's really good ways that we can create meaningful
43:59
learning experiences if we take the time to just unpack.
44:03
You're teaching this thing at that time.
44:04
We're teaching this thing at this time.
44:05
Let's align it, because just as you've described,
44:08
you can have an incredibly powerful learning experience
44:11
if we just take the moment to line it up.
44:13
And so, yeah, connecting these together, you can see where that role of coaching
44:18
is so profound to help teachers recognize that we're not criticizing.
44:24
We're just seeing ways that we could probably get better
44:26
at delivering wonderful learning experiences for young people.
44:29
This was a that's a wonderful example.
44:31
I was so appreciate you sharing that with us.
44:33
Yeah, I think one example I would think of immediately is last,
44:39
last semester I wanted I felt like
44:43
the students were not going out enough to promote experiential learning.
44:47
Right.
44:48
So I connected with somebody I knew would be interested in taking their
44:52
students out. And we asked, where can they go to?
44:54
How is it connected to their learning? What can they do?
44:57
We did it together. It worked. It was beautiful.
44:59
And you know what we did?
45:00
We share the story. Right?
45:02
So we have the meeting where we reflect as a team and we are sharing
45:05
this beautiful story and the impact on the students on all of that.
45:09
And I didn't say we need to say anything this semester.
45:11
Everybody was going on.
45:14
Everybody was great.
45:14
Now we have this group
45:15
and students are going to do one, two, three, four, five, six, see?
45:18
So at the end of the day, it's about who is leading and how are you leading
45:23
if the change would happen. Yeah, yeah.
45:24
No I totally got that.
45:26
And as you've been talking in this last segment, I've been thinking about our warm
45:30
up question about like, what good learning advice.
45:31
And you talk about the energy and you can just see how much you
45:36
care about this and how how exciting it is and how much meaning you see happening.
45:41
And I think if you reflect on these
45:43
big changes that you've made to really integrate service learning,
45:47
I think whoever at the IB is in charge of Cass is probably like, this is it.
45:51
This is the thing I want to be happening with Cass.
45:54
Like, what kind of impact have you seen both on, like the more academic
45:58
understanding side, but also on the student agency side
46:01
to really be making these kind of integral shifts?
46:05
The impact is when you have students that are pathetic,
46:11
and you have students
46:13
that become risk takers.
46:17
And they are ready.
46:18
They are they are confident.
46:19
Students are confident.
46:20
For example we have a student led club
46:23
She Leads.
46:25
And they are looking at empowering young girls
46:28
in local schools to feel confident in their skin.
46:32
And then of course feel like they can do anything, they can achieve anything.
46:38
And they are doing this because they got inspired by someone, right?
46:43
Yeah.
46:43
And guess what?
46:44
In year eight, students are learning about,
46:48
they are learning a unit in English language.
46:50
And I know it's about argument, roughly about arguments,
46:54
but I also know it's about, it's linked to, gender inequality.
47:00
And the students are going to organize a play where they are going to be acting.
47:03
I think there's a story they are reading, and they're going to be acting
47:07
on that story,
47:07
and they are going to use this to raise funds for the students led club,
47:12
to carry on the activities in the next year.
47:14
So, when it comes to student impacts, the impact is vast.
47:18
And I can't even mention all of the different ways students are impacted,
47:21
but you would only see the impacts if the stories are shared
47:24
because this is could happen, could be happening.
47:26
If you don't know how to share the stories
47:28
in a way that the community sees and understands what is happening,
47:32
you might never feel that impact and the impact might just be minimal,
47:35
but for its to be wide, you can find out something
47:40
the small activity that the student does can have a big impact,
47:43
if the story is shared and if it's shared in the right way.
47:46
So given that space for students to speak, they take, you know, take action or,
47:53
demonstrates that learning is important,
47:55
if you're going to see impacts.
47:57
You can then see how,
47:58
because you're engaging the community by sharing that story
48:03
for the student, it goes beyond, oh, I'm just doing this for my teacher.
48:06
You know, I'm creating this, this thing so that my teacher can evaluate it
48:10
and tell me more. It's like, no, no, no.
48:11
It goes beyond an assignment.
48:13
It goes to I'm going to engage people around here.
48:17
And that also has a student who's
48:18
going to affirm me in terms of like, what I'm doing is meaningful.
48:21
What I'm doing isn't just about me.
48:23
It's about those around me as well. Right?
48:26
I love that.
48:27
Temi, I'm so appreciated for this conversation for so many reasons.
48:31
Not just the content, but one thing
48:32
I've really picked up on that I love is after so many of the questions
48:36
you've said, okay, well, let's the first question is why?
48:39
And I love that you do that.
48:41
You just pull out.
48:42
Let's reaffirm with like, why is this an important thing?
48:45
And what does that relate to in terms of our mission?
48:47
And why are we doing this not only as educators but as a school?
48:50
And I think, you know, for me,
48:52
that's going to be one of the major
48:53
takeaways from this conversation is whatever we're moving forward with.
48:56
Let's start with that grounding in why why does it matter for people developing?
48:59
Why does it matter for us as a mission
49:01
or why does this matter for our mission as a school?
49:04
So I just
49:04
I so appreciate you sharing these things and educating me and, our listeners too.
49:09
So yeah, thanks so much for taking the time.
49:11
Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us.
49:13
This has been a great episode and it's been such a pleasure to talk with you.
49:17
Same here.
49:18
IB Unplugged is a Kognity podcast hosted by John Patton
49:22
and Courtney Marline and produced by Katilina Gaffney.
49:24
Be sure to subscribe or follow and share with your fellow IB educators.
49:28
If you'd like to submit a topic, request, or question, please do so on
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49:34
Let's keep the conversation going
49:36
and support each other in teaching with confidence, creativity, and joy.
49:40
See you next time.