Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: The Bill Gates Epstein Related Congressional Transcripts (Part 10-13) (8/21/26)

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Mega Edition: The Bill Gates Epstein Related Congressional Transcripts (Part 10-13) (8/21/26) · Beyond The Horizon

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
0:02
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
0:06
Speaker 1: where he left off with Bill Gates and his interview
0:09
Speaker 1: with Congress mister Spector. Mister Gates. In the interest of time,
0:16
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to not introduce too many different
0:18
Speaker 1: things here, so I'll try to structure the questions in
0:21
Speaker 1: a way that we can do that. But just let
0:23
Speaker 1: me know if we need to. We discussed earlier that
0:26
Speaker 1: a meeting occurred with Epstein present in Washington. You mentioned
0:31
Speaker 1: that earlier, and I think I told you that our
0:33
Speaker 1: DOJ records indicated that happened on August State twenty thirteen.
0:37
Speaker 1: Does that sound about right to you? Moron jumps In?
0:42
Speaker 1: Sorry you said DC or Washington State? Spector sorry, excuse me,
0:46
Speaker 1: Seattle answer? Yeah, the two Washington's question, I call this
0:51
Speaker 1: one DC. Answer. Yeah, my chronology shows that a meeting
0:55
Speaker 1: took place in Washington State. Question. Who else was at
0:58
Speaker 1: the meeting? Answer? You know, I think this is a
1:01
Speaker 1: case where Epstein flew out to Seattle and came to
1:03
Speaker 1: the Gates Venture's office, and so he would have seen
1:06
Speaker 1: both myself and Larry Cohen as part of his being
1:09
Speaker 1: out there. I don't know if doctor Nikolch was there
1:11
Speaker 1: or not. Question, what do you recall about the meeting?
1:14
Speaker 1: What was discussed? Answer? I think the meeting was entirely
1:18
Speaker 1: focused on the terms of doctor Nikolch's exit. Question and
1:23
Speaker 1: was this a meeting where mister Epstein was trying yet
1:25
Speaker 1: again to get additional compensation for doctor Nikolch and you
1:28
Speaker 1: were refusing. Is that a fair generalization of it? Answer?
1:32
Speaker 1: That's the outcome. Yes, that he despite you know, sort
1:35
Speaker 1: of veiled things like saying we should remain friends. You know,
1:39
Speaker 1: I had not asked him to be involved in these
1:40
Speaker 1: exit negotiations, and so it was in the end kind
1:44
Speaker 1: of a worthless meeting. Specter. I'll introduce as majority exhibit
1:49
Speaker 1: for this is an email chain. The first email, which
1:52
Speaker 1: is at the bottom passes out. The first email, which
1:55
Speaker 1: is at the bottom is from Friday, August ninth, twenty thirteen,
1:58
Speaker 1: at ten forty seven pm. The Bates number is EFTA
2:03
Speaker 1: zero one nine five nine eight nine one. So that
2:07
Speaker 1: first email at the bottom again is from Boris Nicolitch
2:10
Speaker 1: to Bill Gates, care of Larry Kahn, subject Jeffrey, thank you.
2:15
Speaker 1: The message it's on the back side of the page
2:17
Speaker 1: that was passed out, It says, Bill, yesterday was a
2:20
Speaker 1: very difficult for both of us. It would be great
2:23
Speaker 1: if you could write Jeffrey a thank you note, as
2:25
Speaker 1: he flew out here to try to help, and I
2:27
Speaker 1: think he did. I thanked him with my deepest gratitude.
2:30
Speaker 1: I know he saved me. I think he saved us
2:32
Speaker 1: both signed Boris, So giving your description of what happened,
2:38
Speaker 1: what do you make of that did mister Epstein save you?
2:40
Speaker 1: And Doctor Nikolch in some way answer he did not question.
2:44
Speaker 1: What do you think Boris meant by this answer? I
2:47
Speaker 1: don't know. I think at some point Boris realized that
2:50
Speaker 1: introducing Epstein was a mistake. But you know, he had
2:53
Speaker 1: asked me, when Epstein did get involved, to send an
2:56
Speaker 1: email to Epstein, which I did, and here then he
2:59
Speaker 1: asked me to send an email to him, thanking him,
3:01
Speaker 1: which I went ahead and did. Specter question again, doctor
3:06
Speaker 1: Nikolich says he flew out here to help, and I
3:09
Speaker 1: think he did. And your testimony today has sort of
3:12
Speaker 1: been opposite, is that Jeffrey Epstein's involvement in these negotiations
3:17
Speaker 1: were useless and accomplished nothing. Answer. Yeah, it's completely provable
3:22
Speaker 1: because he offered to Boris is the same. What he
3:24
Speaker 1: ends up with is the same. So you know that's
3:27
Speaker 1: just black and white facts. Yeah, what did you give
3:30
Speaker 1: him under the table? How about that question question? The
3:34
Speaker 1: next email, so the middle email on the first page,
3:37
Speaker 1: you respond to doctor Nikeoluch with Larry Cohen again, you say,
3:40
Speaker 1: I agree, Jeffrey was quite helpful and he put a
3:43
Speaker 1: lot of time in. Without him, it would have been
3:45
Speaker 1: a lot harder. I will send him a thank you.
3:48
Speaker 1: So it seems like you're saying something a little different
3:50
Speaker 1: in this email than you're saying right now. Is that
3:53
Speaker 1: fair answer? I would I was willing to go along
3:56
Speaker 1: with the narrative that Jeffrey had been helpful. I wanted
3:59
Speaker 1: to get the thing closed. You know, I had decided
4:01
Speaker 1: that doctor Nikolich should leave my employ He wanted to
4:04
Speaker 1: say that we made progress. I knew that the offer
4:06
Speaker 1: on the table. I wanted doctor Nikolitch to accept that.
4:10
Speaker 1: So I don't feel these comments were made in sincerity,
4:13
Speaker 1: but in the furtherance of hey, this is Boris's mindset.
4:16
Speaker 1: Now he feels good. I think you should bring forward
4:18
Speaker 1: the other email that we referred to, because that would
4:21
Speaker 1: be and give very helpful context. Question so you said,
4:25
Speaker 1: though you did ultimately send mister Epstein to thank you.
4:29
Speaker 1: Answer as I was asked to do. Yes. Question, I'm
4:32
Speaker 1: trying not to flood you with more paper here, so
4:35
Speaker 1: I'll just ask about it generally. Do you recall what
4:37
Speaker 1: you what the nature of the thank you was? Answer?
4:40
Speaker 1: I said, thank you, I mean boris both at the
4:43
Speaker 1: start of Epstein's involvement and at the end he asked
4:46
Speaker 1: me to send an email which may have actually been
4:48
Speaker 1: my very first email to mister Epstein was the initiation
4:53
Speaker 1: of his involvement in doctor Nikolich's exit. Question is this
4:58
Speaker 1: the thank you email that you sent to mister Epstein.
5:00
Speaker 1: You make reference to structuring the payment as a gift,
5:04
Speaker 1: and you're discussing how you paid gifts taxes on it.
5:07
Speaker 1: Is it your recollection that the severance payment to doctor
5:09
Speaker 1: Nikolch was structured as a gift. Answer? No, you're confusing
5:13
Speaker 1: something that's absolutely separate. Question Okay, answer no connection with
5:18
Speaker 1: doctor Nikolich's exit. At the time that doctor Nikolitch came
5:22
Speaker 1: to work at the Gates Foundation, he had some ongoing
5:25
Speaker 1: consulting agreements so this is five years, six years earlier,
5:29
Speaker 1: and I made at the time so that Boris could
5:32
Speaker 1: walk away from those things without a net loss. I
5:34
Speaker 1: made a half a million dollar gift to doctor Nickolitch,
5:37
Speaker 1: but that's like five years earlier before certainly before I
5:40
Speaker 1: met Epstein, and I believe before doctor Nikolicch had met Epstein.
5:45
Speaker 1: The reason that that came up in the exit discussion
5:47
Speaker 1: was Epstein, having apparently heard about that payment from six
5:50
Speaker 1: years ago, tried to insert some doubt about how the
5:53
Speaker 1: taxes hadn't been paid on that. And this was not
5:56
Speaker 1: the only time, but this is where he tried to
5:58
Speaker 1: insert himself as, hey, I could get give you tax advice,
6:01
Speaker 1: why don't you send me the documents? And youano you
6:04
Speaker 1: probably should show me the email. Because I was very
6:07
Speaker 1: black and white that I'm the most careful about paying
6:10
Speaker 1: taxes of anyone I know. I have great professionals. I
6:14
Speaker 1: wasn't going to send him any tax documents that was
6:16
Speaker 1: structured as a gift. I paid a gift tax and
6:19
Speaker 1: so we're talking about a half million. That's nothing to
6:21
Speaker 1: do with the exit agreement at all. Question. Okay, that's
6:25
Speaker 1: helpful context, and for the record, that is what you
6:29
Speaker 1: say at the end of the email you say, I
6:30
Speaker 1: will bet I am more careful about gift taxes than
6:33
Speaker 1: almost any other taxpayer. Answer. Yeah, I believe that in
6:37
Speaker 1: my fourteen billion of tax payments, I probably paid more
6:40
Speaker 1: gift taxes than others. Question more than me moran And
6:44
Speaker 1: I'll just note that the same email ending in Bates
6:47
Speaker 1: number is zero five to three that we referenced earlier
6:50
Speaker 1: contains some of the same exchange about the tax treatment
6:53
Speaker 1: issue as well. Specter asking questions. Now, question, mister Gates,
6:57
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about I know
6:59
Speaker 1: we've talked about it, and I'll try to be brief
7:02
Speaker 1: and not go back over to many of the same things,
7:05
Speaker 1: but the three extra marital affairs that we've now discussed
7:08
Speaker 1: in today's interview. For the first one, also Mila Antonova,
7:14
Speaker 1: if that's all right with you, I can refer to
7:16
Speaker 1: her as the bridge player or I can call her
7:18
Speaker 1: miss Antonova. Answer. That's fine. Question I think you said earlier.
7:23
Speaker 1: But do you recall when you first met her? Answer
7:25
Speaker 1: at a bridge tournament. Question and where was the bridge
7:28
Speaker 1: tournament answer? I'm not sure question, and it was prior
7:31
Speaker 1: to meeting Jeffrey Epstein answer yes. Question do you recall
7:35
Speaker 1: when you learned that miss Antonova had some sort of
7:38
Speaker 1: interaction with mister Epstein. Answer? It would have been when
7:41
Speaker 1: he sent me email suggesting that he had reimbursed her
7:44
Speaker 1: or paid for something in connection in relationship to her.
7:48
Speaker 1: Question and this was years a couple of years after
7:50
Speaker 1: you seize communication with mister Epstein. Is that correct? Answer? No,
7:55
Speaker 1: it's right at the end or soon after the end. No,
7:57
Speaker 1: I think it's right after the end that he sends
7:59
Speaker 1: an email, and most of the email he sent me.
8:02
Speaker 1: Where after I never talked to him again because he
8:05
Speaker 1: made many attempts to re engage. But he sent memel
8:08
Speaker 1: about those reimbursements, and then I went to Larry Cohen,
8:11
Speaker 1: who communicated that I didn't feel it was appropriate or
8:15
Speaker 1: I was under any obligation to reimburse them for what
8:18
Speaker 1: he may have done. Question did anyone else who else
8:21
Speaker 1: may have known about your affair? About this affair? Answer?
8:25
Speaker 1: I don't know who. Question Boris Nikolitch, Jeffrey Epstein. Eventually
8:29
Speaker 1: you told your wife. Did anyone else during that period
8:33
Speaker 1: intervening period know about it? As far as you know? Answer?
8:37
Speaker 1: Not that I'm aware of maybe a therapist, but I
8:39
Speaker 1: guess I can exclude my discussions with therapists. Question and
8:44
Speaker 1: then the same sort of questions for Miss nig Mantalina,
8:47
Speaker 1: the nuclear physicist, as we discussed earlier. I think you've
8:51
Speaker 1: talked about this publicly. You said that you met her
8:53
Speaker 1: through business activities? Is that right? Answer? That is right? Question?
8:57
Speaker 1: What sort of business activities? Answer? She worked on both
9:01
Speaker 1: disease modeling and nuclear fission work, and I met her
9:04
Speaker 1: in connection with that. Question work that the Gates Foundation
9:08
Speaker 1: was involved or overlap with her work? Answer? No, it's
9:11
Speaker 1: not Gate Foundation's work. It was worked that it was
9:15
Speaker 1: either Terra Power work or work that I funded, not
9:19
Speaker 1: connected to the foundation. Question for the record, what is
9:23
Speaker 1: Terra Power? Answer? Its nuclear fission fourth generation nuclear fission company.
9:28
Speaker 1: Question that you fund? Answer, I'm a substantial investor in
9:31
Speaker 1: Tara Power. Question did Miss nig Matalina work directly for
9:36
Speaker 1: Terra Power at all? Answer? Yes. I'm a little confused
9:40
Speaker 1: about when she worked on the disease modeling project and
9:42
Speaker 1: when she did some work at for Tara Power. I
9:45
Speaker 1: think they may have even overlapped. But after she finished
9:48
Speaker 1: both of those pieces of work, is when our affairs started.
9:52
Speaker 1: Question and do you recall approximately of the year that
9:55
Speaker 1: the affair started? Answer, I mean I can find out.
9:58
Speaker 1: Question was it prior to you meeting Jeffrey Epstein? Answer? No,
10:02
Speaker 1: I should look. The time I became aware he knew
10:05
Speaker 1: about that affair was when Epstein files were releases here.
10:09
Speaker 1: Question that's when you found out that mister Epstein was
10:11
Speaker 1: aware of this affair, is what you're saying? Answer right,
10:15
Speaker 1: in those emails to himself among the true and false
10:18
Speaker 1: things that he's stuck in there. In one of those
10:20
Speaker 1: emails he mentions her name. Question but for the record,
10:23
Speaker 1: the way that you met her through the business activities,
10:26
Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with Jeffrey Epstein in any way.
10:29
Speaker 1: Answer nothing, not in any way. Question and you did
10:33
Speaker 1: you ever have a conversation with miss nig Mantalina about
10:37
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein? Answer never. Question and then the same sort
10:41
Speaker 1: of questions for doctor Jacobs. You may have said, and
10:44
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but can you remind me what you're approximately
10:47
Speaker 1: Your affair with her began? Answer before twenty ten? Question
10:52
Speaker 1: so prior to you ever meeting Jeffrey Epstein. Answer that's right. Question,
10:57
Speaker 1: and so you had no awareness of any relationship or
11:00
Speaker 1: any relationship between her and mister Epstein. Answer that's right question.
11:05
Speaker 1: And do you have any awareness of her relationship with
11:08
Speaker 1: mister Epstein as you sit here today? Answer I do
11:12
Speaker 1: not question. I'll ask the same questions for miss Antonova
11:16
Speaker 1: sit here today. Do you have any additional context or
11:19
Speaker 1: awareness of her interactions with mister Epstein besides what we've
11:23
Speaker 1: talked about. Answer well, I read in the press several
11:26
Speaker 1: years ago that she commented that she and mister Epstein
11:29
Speaker 1: and that he had paid some expenses that she wasn't
11:32
Speaker 1: aware of was something that he was communicating back to me.
11:36
Speaker 1: Question So the only additional awareness you have about her
11:39
Speaker 1: interactions with mister Epstein are through public reporting. Answer well,
11:44
Speaker 1: he sends me emails, you know, after I stopped meeting
11:47
Speaker 1: with them. There's a bunch of emails where he's referring
11:49
Speaker 1: to her, even one time reporting that I had asked
11:51
Speaker 1: him to do these things, which is false. But there's
11:54
Speaker 1: a number of emails for him relating to the woman
11:57
Speaker 1: we're calling the bridge player. Question and I'll ask the
12:01
Speaker 1: same question for miss Nigma Talina. Do you have any
12:04
Speaker 1: other knowledge today about her interactions with or communications with
12:08
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. Answer, I'd be stunned if there wherever many.
12:12
Speaker 1: So no, I don't question other than that you know
12:17
Speaker 1: that he was aware of your affair. Answer that's right,
12:19
Speaker 1: but that's not communication to her. All right, folks, we're
12:22
Speaker 1: gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode,
12:24
Speaker 1: we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the
12:27
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
12:30
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
12:33
Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna
12:38
Speaker 1: pick up where he left off with the Bill Gates
12:40
Speaker 1: testimony to Congress. Question correct, Now, I want to talk
12:47
Speaker 1: a little bit more about this blackmail that I think
12:49
Speaker 1: you characterize these drafts, these emails Epstein sent to himself
12:53
Speaker 1: as potential blackmail. Answer as I see them today, that's,
12:57
Speaker 1: you know, my guess about what he might be thinking about.
13:00
Speaker 1: Question do you think that he was hoping to take
13:02
Speaker 1: a cut of this proposed deal he was offering to
13:05
Speaker 1: doctor Nikolich? Answer? I'm not aware of that. He may have.
13:09
Speaker 1: Question he never did he ever ask you for money
13:11
Speaker 1: directly paid to him? Or was it always this discussion
13:14
Speaker 1: of money for doctor Nicolich? Answer. He had one point,
13:17
Speaker 1: kind of a weird email says that I he purports
13:22
Speaker 1: that I said that I was in his debt, but
13:25
Speaker 1: that he said I wasn't in his debt, And the
13:28
Speaker 1: truth is I never said he was in debt. But
13:31
Speaker 1: despite his saying that he didn't think that I was
13:33
Speaker 1: in his debt, in that email, he seems to ask
13:35
Speaker 1: for donations to be made in his name to a
13:38
Speaker 1: variety of entities. So that's along the lines of, Hey,
13:41
Speaker 1: I helped you out with this exit, and you owe me,
13:44
Speaker 1: even though the email says you don't owe me. Question
13:48
Speaker 1: did you ever make a donation to that entity in
13:50
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's name for him? Answer never in his name?
13:53
Speaker 1: Question did you ever make a donation to any entity
13:56
Speaker 1: that he had asked you to donate to? Answer Yeah,
13:59
Speaker 1: there's an inner section of the list he sent me
14:02
Speaker 1: and an institution that I'd given to literally for decades
14:05
Speaker 1: through my work at Microsoft personally and through the foundation,
14:08
Speaker 1: which is MIT. And I did make a two million
14:11
Speaker 1: dollar donation to MIT. Well, I made it. We can
14:14
Speaker 1: get the date overlapping this period that I knew mister Epstein.
14:17
Speaker 1: Question was that donation related in any way to mister
14:20
Speaker 1: Epstein or you saying it's happenstance since you had already
14:24
Speaker 1: been donating to them. Answer, I'd say the timing was
14:27
Speaker 1: somewhat related. That is, I've given to MIT many times.
14:31
Speaker 1: There's a building there, you know, there's some ongoing medical work,
14:35
Speaker 1: which is absolutely fantastic. But I gave a two million
14:39
Speaker 1: dollar donation without you know, mentioning mister Epstein's name, you know,
14:42
Speaker 1: not related to any program that he was involved in,
14:45
Speaker 1: And so that was the primary purpose was to help MIT.
14:50
Speaker 1: As a secondary thing, I did tell mister Epstein about
14:52
Speaker 1: the donation, hoping that it might factor into his no
14:55
Speaker 1: longer coming to me and asking for donations in his name,
14:58
Speaker 1: which is something I'd been clear I was not going
15:01
Speaker 1: to do. Question. So, just to be clear, the donation
15:05
Speaker 1: to MIT was not in response to any blackmail or
15:07
Speaker 1: threats that mister Epstein had made. Answer. No, the primary
15:12
Speaker 1: purpose was to get resources to MIT, who had always
15:15
Speaker 1: used my gifts in a very effective way. There was
15:19
Speaker 1: a secondary thing that I told Epstein about and hoping
15:21
Speaker 1: that would bring an end to this weird set of
15:23
Speaker 1: emails where he acted like I should make a donation
15:26
Speaker 1: in his name. Mister grant. And did MIT ever discuss
15:30
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein with you at any point during the donation process? Gates, No, No,
15:36
Speaker 1: In fact, they did an investigation to make sure that
15:38
Speaker 1: the donation was not Epstein related and found that it
15:42
Speaker 1: was not. Question And did they talk to you as
15:45
Speaker 1: part of the investigation? Answer? Yes, question by mister spector.
15:50
Speaker 1: Question again. I'll try to avoid too much paper, But
15:53
Speaker 1: a representative for you in the media said that mister
15:55
Speaker 1: Gates met with Epstein solely for philanthropic purposes, Having failed
16:00
Speaker 1: to repeatedly to draw mister Gates beyond these matters, Epstein
16:03
Speaker 1: tried unsuccessfully at a leverage a pass relationship the threatened
16:07
Speaker 1: mister Gates. So let's talk about that last part first.
16:12
Speaker 1: He tried unsuccessfully at a leverage a pass relationship. Is
16:15
Speaker 1: that the three affairs we've discussed or is it something else? Answer?
16:20
Speaker 1: Doctor Jacobs never came up with Epstein any way, shape
16:23
Speaker 1: or form, so it certainly doesn't refer to that. As
16:26
Speaker 1: I said during the exit period, there was never an
16:29
Speaker 1: explicit hey, if you don't do something, I'll reveal this.
16:33
Speaker 1: There was a veiled type of language, Hey, we should
16:36
Speaker 1: all want to be friends and as I've said, I
16:39
Speaker 1: took that on very explicitly and said, look, if you
16:42
Speaker 1: think you're going to get more money out of this,
16:44
Speaker 1: it's not going to happen. And if that means you
16:46
Speaker 1: go out and talk to people about things, I will
16:49
Speaker 1: just bear the pain of that and deal with it.
16:52
Speaker 1: And so I was. I was not blackmailed. But you know,
16:55
Speaker 1: as you look at the emails, you know, it looks
16:57
Speaker 1: like mister Epstein brainstorming, and he was going in that direction. Question,
17:01
Speaker 1: and just to be clear, the past relationship that he
17:04
Speaker 1: unsuccessfully tried to leverage. What that refers to is the
17:07
Speaker 1: thinly veiled threats we've already discussed over the course of
17:10
Speaker 1: today's interview answer relative to the bridge player and the
17:14
Speaker 1: nuclear well. At the time, I mean, I wasn't sure
17:17
Speaker 1: what it referred to, but I had to assume that
17:19
Speaker 1: there was some chance that the two affairs that Boris
17:22
Speaker 1: was aware of had communication. Mister Epstein question, and just
17:26
Speaker 1: to clarify also the beginning part of that statement, mister
17:30
Speaker 1: Gates met with Epstein solely for philanthropic purposes. As we've
17:34
Speaker 1: discussed today, you also met with mister Epstein with regard
17:38
Speaker 1: to the dispute with the negotiation with doctor Nikolitch, Is
17:40
Speaker 1: that right answer? Yeah? And there were dinners where a
17:44
Speaker 1: philanthropic thing would have come up, but wouldn't have necessarily
17:47
Speaker 1: you know, when Jess Daily or Larry Summers was there,
17:50
Speaker 1: these n people that I'm meeting for the first time,
17:52
Speaker 1: we would discuss other topics. So the primary topic of
17:57
Speaker 1: the times I spent with mister Epstein were my attempt
17:59
Speaker 1: to raise billions for global health. There were other things,
18:03
Speaker 1: including doctor Nikolitch's exit, you know, when he comes out
18:06
Speaker 1: in August. I doubt we discussed global health at that meeting.
18:09
Speaker 1: I think that was solely focused on this exit question.
18:13
Speaker 1: And just to be clear, the statement says that you
18:15
Speaker 1: solely met with mister Epstein for philanthropic purposes, So that's
18:19
Speaker 1: not true then, right answer, I it's the correct summary
18:24
Speaker 1: would be to say that the primary reason that I
18:26
Speaker 1: met with him, you know, so if a report is oversimplified,
18:29
Speaker 1: that's a mistake. Question. And again you've said that you
18:33
Speaker 1: were not blackmailt and I think maybe what you mean
18:36
Speaker 1: is you were not successfully black melt. But it seems
18:38
Speaker 1: like mister Epstein was trying to really hard to blackmail you. Answer.
18:42
Speaker 1: If those emails that contained some truth and some false
18:44
Speaker 1: things were ever sent, then we could say that there
18:47
Speaker 1: was an attempt to blackmail that never happened. You know,
18:50
Speaker 1: I don't know if doctor Nikolich ever saw those, but
18:53
Speaker 1: I certainly never saw those. Those would have been then
18:56
Speaker 1: it would have been hard or been black and white
18:59
Speaker 1: that that's what they're were attempting to do. What actually
19:02
Speaker 1: happened is that they made veiled references that because of that,
19:04
Speaker 1: you know, I explicitly raised the idea that they're disclosing
19:08
Speaker 1: whatever they knew about me, that I would deal with that,
19:11
Speaker 1: and I was going to raise the offer because of
19:13
Speaker 1: my concerns about what might be behind those veiled references question.
19:18
Speaker 1: And I think that's correct when you look back at
19:20
Speaker 1: majority Exhibit one and in the emails that are open
19:22
Speaker 1: discussions between mister Epstein and Nicolch about you, you know,
19:26
Speaker 1: in an email they might send to you again that
19:28
Speaker 1: they ultimately did not. It's more thinly veiled. It only references,
19:33
Speaker 1: as we discussed earlier, sensitive information and a dilemma of
19:37
Speaker 1: trust and these thinly veiled threats. Is that kind of
19:41
Speaker 1: what you're talking about? That sort of language answer, I
19:44
Speaker 1: think you're referring to an email that I'm not copied on.
19:47
Speaker 1: Question You are not copied on the email? That's correct. Answer, Yeah, moron,
19:52
Speaker 1: is that the type of statement gets cut off by Gates.
19:55
Speaker 1: That is the type of statement that Epstein made. Specter, Okay,
20:00
Speaker 1: they go off the record, they come back on question.
20:03
Speaker 1: Good afternoon, mister Gates answer, good afternoon. Question. When we
20:08
Speaker 1: left during our last round together, we were proceeding through
20:10
Speaker 1: the chronology of your meetings with mister Epstein. I'd like
20:14
Speaker 1: to continue doing that if I could, But first just
20:17
Speaker 1: step back in time to twenty eleven, and this would
20:20
Speaker 1: be your first meeting with mister Epstein at his home.
20:23
Speaker 1: In January of twenty eleven, it was reported in Forbes
20:26
Speaker 1: magazine that after visiting Epstein for the first time, you
20:30
Speaker 1: told colleagues in an email the next day that Epstein
20:33
Speaker 1: and I, quoting from the article lifestyle is very different
20:36
Speaker 1: and kind of intriguing, although it not worked for me.
20:40
Speaker 1: Do you recall telling colleagues that after your initial visit Answer, yeah,
20:44
Speaker 1: I sent an email to one person saying that question.
20:47
Speaker 1: Who was that person? Answer? Doctor Walker, question and what
20:51
Speaker 1: did you mean by different and intriguing? Answer, Well, as
20:54
Speaker 1: you said, that was the first time I'd ever met Epstein,
20:57
Speaker 1: and during that dinner meeting, he'd refer to a lot
20:59
Speaker 1: of side scis and economists that would spend time talking
21:02
Speaker 1: to him. You know, I never followed up to see,
21:05
Speaker 1: you know, particularly given what I know about his credibility.
21:08
Speaker 1: Now which of those were real and we're not real?
21:11
Speaker 1: But you know, my first impression was that he took
21:13
Speaker 1: time being kind of different, a lot of different science
21:17
Speaker 1: and economic areas, and you know, I pick particular areas
21:20
Speaker 1: to focus in software while I was at Microsoft and
21:24
Speaker 1: global health and education at the Foundation, and so yes,
21:27
Speaker 1: I made the remark that it was what I'd heard
21:30
Speaker 1: from him was intriguing but not for me. Question. I
21:34
Speaker 1: appreciate that. And then stepping ahead in time again back
21:38
Speaker 1: to twenty fourteen, just generally, do you have any recollection
21:41
Speaker 1: of the meetings that you had with Jeffrey Epstein during
21:44
Speaker 1: that year? Answer? I know the last two. If we
21:47
Speaker 1: want to go through them all, I should refresh my recollection. Answer.
21:51
Speaker 1: I think before you do that, I'll show you another exhibit,
21:54
Speaker 1: and this will be Exhibit F. This is yet another
21:57
Speaker 1: email setting forth Jeffrey Epstein's schedule from September twenty fourteen,
22:02
Speaker 1: it refers to some kind of specific meetings I'd like
22:05
Speaker 1: to ask you about. So, looking at the first entry
22:09
Speaker 1: at the top of the email from September eighth, twenty fourteen,
22:12
Speaker 1: there is a notation for ten am meeting with you
22:15
Speaker 1: and Tom Pritzker at the Park Hyatt in New York.
22:18
Speaker 1: Do you recall that meeting? Answer? Yes? Question okay, what
22:22
Speaker 1: was the purpose of that meeting? Answer? Well, as we
22:25
Speaker 1: got into late twenty thirteen. In twenty fourteen, and Epstein
22:29
Speaker 1: was focusing on more of the structure of how these
22:31
Speaker 1: purported donations would be handled. I, particularly after the fall
22:35
Speaker 1: of twenty thirteen, put a lot more pressure on them
22:38
Speaker 1: to identify specifically, you know, which Wall Street or Middle
22:42
Speaker 1: East or other billionaires. Did he really think we're going
22:45
Speaker 1: to make these large donations, because you know, very few
22:48
Speaker 1: people give money to global health and I you know,
22:52
Speaker 1: wanted to see if he was stringing me out or
22:54
Speaker 1: was legitimate. And in response to that, he said, oh, yeah,
22:57
Speaker 1: there's a bunch. Let me set up some meetings with
22:59
Speaker 1: some of the people who may do this thing. And
23:02
Speaker 1: so this series of meetings on September fifth, This is
23:05
Speaker 1: the second to last time that I ever spent with Epstein,
23:08
Speaker 1: but it's the first time that I'm getting concrete that, hey,
23:12
Speaker 1: if this is going to happen, here are the people
23:14
Speaker 1: or some of the people. And he still referred to
23:17
Speaker 1: the Middle East and said, you know, they might be
23:19
Speaker 1: available later, but that didn't amount to anything. So we
23:22
Speaker 1: met with several people on September fifth in New York City. Question,
23:27
Speaker 1: and I'll walk through each of these meetings set fourth
23:29
Speaker 1: in the exhibit in more detail, but overall, you know,
23:31
Speaker 1: the first entry, as I noted, refers to a meeting
23:34
Speaker 1: with Tom Pritzker. There's another referringly on Black, another to
23:37
Speaker 1: Larry Summers, another to Mort Zuckerman, and another with Kathy Rumler.
23:44
Speaker 1: What was your overall assessment at the conclusion of this
23:46
Speaker 1: series of meetings. Were you satisfied that the prospect of
23:50
Speaker 1: securing funding was becoming more concrete or did it still
23:53
Speaker 1: remain nebulous and in chot in your mind? Answer? Yeah,
23:58
Speaker 1: to be clear, I never saw Larry Summer on this day.
24:01
Speaker 1: Question sure, and I'll get to that one answer. Okay, question,
24:04
Speaker 1: but yeah, I appreciate the clarification. Answer. No, Unfortunately, these
24:10
Speaker 1: were friendly meetings, and you know, I talked about GAVY
24:13
Speaker 1: and Global Fund and lots of things in global health
24:16
Speaker 1: where lives are being saved, you know, for less than
24:18
Speaker 1: two thousand per life. It didn't appear any of these people.
24:22
Speaker 1: The Kathy Rumler meeting is of a different nature, which
24:25
Speaker 1: we can talk about, but she was not a potential giver.
24:28
Speaker 1: The other men that I met that day were presented
24:31
Speaker 1: as potential givers, and they were very polite, you know,
24:34
Speaker 1: praising the work I was doing in global health, but
24:37
Speaker 1: they clearly none of them was at a point where
24:40
Speaker 1: they were deciding to give large additional sums in general
24:43
Speaker 1: and not the global health. They were impolite enough to
24:46
Speaker 1: say that, you know, maybe when they get around to
24:48
Speaker 1: doing their full giving plans, they might think about it.
24:52
Speaker 1: But it was complete disappointment from my point of view,
24:54
Speaker 1: even though it was all very friendly. All right, folks,
24:58
Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next
25:00
Speaker 1: episode dealing with the topic, We're going to pick up
25:02
Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
25:05
Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
25:10
Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
25:14
Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to pick up where he left
25:16
Speaker 1: off with the Bill Gates testimony in front of Congress.
25:20
Speaker 1: Question looking at the second meeting reflected in his schedule,
25:24
Speaker 1: which is the eleven thirty meeting at Leon Black's office,
25:27
Speaker 1: Did that meeting take place? Answer? Yes, it did. Question okay,
25:31
Speaker 1: and had you previously met mister Black? Answer? I had not.
25:37
Speaker 1: Question do you have an understanding as to Jeffrey Epstein's
25:40
Speaker 1: relationship with Leon Black? Answer no, to this day, I
25:44
Speaker 1: find that somewhat unclear. Question did he make any representation
25:48
Speaker 1: to you in that regard? Answer? Well, mister Epstein came
25:51
Speaker 1: along for these meetings, and so you know, mister Epstein
25:54
Speaker 1: didn't speak up much in these meetings because it was
25:57
Speaker 1: kind of a chance for me to pull the person about, Hey,
26:00
Speaker 1: how were they thinking of philanthropy broadly? And did you
26:04
Speaker 1: you know, were they going to do something substantial? And
26:08
Speaker 1: was global health a potential area to give to? And
26:10
Speaker 1: we met a few doesn't show it here, but we
26:12
Speaker 1: met a few other people in that office, the Apollo
26:15
Speaker 1: offices where that meeting took place. Question and do you
26:18
Speaker 1: recall who those people were? Answer? We met with Josh
26:21
Speaker 1: Harris for a period. I think I got the name right.
26:24
Speaker 1: Question anyone else? Answer no, I mean there were people around,
26:28
Speaker 1: but the two specific meetings I remember were with Leon
26:31
Speaker 1: Black first and then Josh a shorter meeting with him later.
26:35
Speaker 1: Question did you ever become aware of Leon Black engaging
26:39
Speaker 1: in any sort of sexual relationship with any woman or
26:41
Speaker 1: girl connected to Jeffrey Epstein? Answer no. Question The next
26:46
Speaker 1: meeting is Exhibit F. It's at twelve pm, and it's
26:49
Speaker 1: a meeting with Larry Summers. If I understood you correctly,
26:52
Speaker 1: that meeting did not happen? Answer yeah, I don't know
26:55
Speaker 1: anything about that. I never heard his name in connection
26:59
Speaker 1: with the agenda for this day. Question and then the
27:02
Speaker 1: following entry refers to a two pm meeting with mort Zuckerman.
27:05
Speaker 1: Did that meeting happen? Answer yes? Question okay, And according
27:10
Speaker 1: to this entry it took place if I'm reading it correctly,
27:12
Speaker 1: either at mister Gate's residence or at the Four Seasons.
27:15
Speaker 1: Do you recall the location? Answer it was not at
27:18
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's residence to my recollection, I think it was
27:21
Speaker 1: at the Four Seasons. Question And you had previously met
27:25
Speaker 1: mister Zuckerman? Answer I had not. Question okay, And do
27:29
Speaker 1: you recall the discussion at that meeting. Answer, it was
27:32
Speaker 1: about his philanthropic thinking, and like the others, he was
27:35
Speaker 1: polite and praise the work I was doing without showing
27:38
Speaker 1: a near term interest in giving substantial sums to global health.
27:42
Speaker 1: Question was anyone else present at the meeting? Answer? I
27:45
Speaker 1: think mister Epstein sat in on that meeting. Question and
27:49
Speaker 1: finally in this calendar entry at three to three thirty
27:52
Speaker 1: pm with Kathy Rumler at the four seasons, I take
27:56
Speaker 1: it that meeting did take place. Answer it did. Question okay,
27:59
Speaker 1: but you mention that was one that was not focused
28:02
Speaker 1: on a prospective donation. Answer, that's right. Question okay. So
28:06
Speaker 1: what was the subject of that meeting? Answer? I'm not
28:10
Speaker 1: quite sure why he added her to the calendar this day.
28:13
Speaker 1: I gave him some discretion on that. I think that meeting,
28:16
Speaker 1: as I recall, it talked about politics and the Trump administration.
28:20
Speaker 1: I think it was more talking about what was going
28:22
Speaker 1: on politically. You know, he may have been working towards
28:25
Speaker 1: suggesting I involve her in some of my work in
28:28
Speaker 1: some way, but that never happened. Oh sorry, I refer
28:32
Speaker 1: to it would have talked about political things. But this
28:36
Speaker 1: is during the Obama presidency, so it certainly didn't refer
28:39
Speaker 1: to Trump because I didn't anticipate his future presidency. Question
28:43
Speaker 1: thank you. It's my understanding that your former wife had
28:46
Speaker 1: reservations about Jeffrey Epstein and your interaction with him. Is
28:49
Speaker 1: that accurate? Answer? Definitely. Question did it ever enter your
28:54
Speaker 1: mind or did you ever become aware of Jeffrey Epstein
28:57
Speaker 1: using or attempting to use Kathy Ruhmler to trying to
29:00
Speaker 1: souage those concerns? Answer? My ex wife, Melinda. I don't
29:04
Speaker 1: believe ever met with or talked to Kathy Rumler. Question
29:09
Speaker 1: no further questions on this exhibit. Thank you. I will
29:12
Speaker 1: finally ask the court reporter to mark as exhibit G
29:16
Speaker 1: an email dated January thirteenth, twenty nineteen from Jeffrey Epstein
29:20
Speaker 1: to you Bates number E F t AR one zero
29:24
Speaker 1: one seventy nine five five five eight, mister Gates, which
29:28
Speaker 1: one were dacted? It's this one Gates? Okay? Question mister Gates,
29:34
Speaker 1: have you ever seen this email before? Answer? I don't
29:37
Speaker 1: think so. No. There came a time when I no
29:39
Speaker 1: longer looked at email from mister Epstein to me, And
29:42
Speaker 1: this is in twenty nineteen, and my last contact with
29:46
Speaker 1: them was in twenty fourteen. Question, I'll just read the
29:50
Speaker 1: text of this brief email for the record. December third,
29:53
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, Comma, Washington, DC, meeting Equal Sign at airport.
29:59
Speaker 1: Larry said you'd had no recollection, or at least he
30:01
Speaker 1: was not aware of your request and our conversation. Odd
30:05
Speaker 1: Looking at this email today, do you have any understanding
30:08
Speaker 1: as to what meeting mister Epstein was referring to? Answer? Well,
30:12
Speaker 1: I did. Let me look at the chronology to double
30:15
Speaker 1: check this, but I do think I had a meeting
30:17
Speaker 1: with Ebstein at the National Airport FBO on that day.
30:21
Speaker 1: Question and do you recall the subject of that meeting? Answer?
30:24
Speaker 1: That would have been about the philanthropic work. I was
30:27
Speaker 1: in DC for other reasons. He was asking to meet me.
30:31
Speaker 1: I was getting on a plane there, and there's a
30:33
Speaker 1: conference room there, and we went in there and had
30:35
Speaker 1: a fairly brief conversation. Question do you understand Larry referred
30:39
Speaker 1: to in the body of this email as Larry Cohen? Answer? Okay,
30:43
Speaker 1: I'm guessing, but yes, the only thing that would make
30:46
Speaker 1: sense is that that would be Larry Cohen. Question do
30:49
Speaker 1: you have a recollection of discussing with Cohen at or
30:52
Speaker 1: about this time your previous interaction with Jeffrey Epstein. Answer, Well,
30:57
Speaker 1: as I've gone through the emails that came out in January,
31:00
Speaker 1: looks like Epstein was trying to suggest that I had
31:02
Speaker 1: some connection to the payments he made with respect to
31:05
Speaker 1: the Bridge Player, and seemed to be saying to Larry
31:08
Speaker 1: not in this email. But I think it's some prior
31:10
Speaker 1: thing that I saw that I had requested him to
31:12
Speaker 1: make those payments, and that's completely false. Question and again,
31:16
Speaker 1: looking at the email as you sit here today, do
31:18
Speaker 1: you understand this communication from Jeffrey Epstein to be part
31:22
Speaker 1: of that context part of the general gets cut off
31:25
Speaker 1: by Gates. It could be I'd be speculating, but it's
31:28
Speaker 1: consistent with that idea. Question, all right, nothing further on
31:32
Speaker 1: this exhibit. Question, mister Gates, You've mentioned a couple of
31:36
Speaker 1: times today photos that were taken of you and various
31:40
Speaker 1: Epstein assistants and associates. We have some of those photos
31:44
Speaker 1: that were produced to us by Epstein's estate, So we're
31:46
Speaker 1: going to show you some of those and ask you
31:48
Speaker 1: a few questions. Gates, Okay, question, I'll start by introducing
31:52
Speaker 1: minority exhibits H and I question, mister Gates, I believe
31:57
Speaker 1: these are both photos of you and a woman namored.
32:00
Speaker 1: Is that correct answer? I have no idea what her
32:03
Speaker 1: name is. Question. You were never introduced to her? Answer?
32:06
Speaker 1: I was not. Question, but you met her on presumably
32:09
Speaker 1: both of these occasions and others you were introduced by Epstein.
32:13
Speaker 1: Is that correct answer? No, I've never met her. Question,
32:16
Speaker 1: but you're standing next to her. Answer, that is correct. Question.
32:20
Speaker 1: So it was just for the photo answer at the
32:23
Speaker 1: end of the meeting. I don't know if this is
32:25
Speaker 1: the same woman, and they're both redacted and unredacted versions
32:28
Speaker 1: of this photo. This one, I can say, is at
32:30
Speaker 1: National Airport after the December third meeting that I just
32:34
Speaker 1: discussed with your colleague. At the end of that meeting,
32:37
Speaker 1: she was with Epstein, and as I walk down this hallway,
32:40
Speaker 1: you can see it says signature there. He asked that
32:43
Speaker 1: I take a photo with her, and he took a photo.
32:46
Speaker 1: Question and mister Gates, for the record, you're describing exhibit H. Question. Yes,
32:52
Speaker 1: mister Gates, it says H. Question, so could you just
32:54
Speaker 1: remind us what year this was? Answer? So that was
32:59
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, December third, twenty thirteen. Question to your recollection,
33:04
Speaker 1: Was this the first time you ever encountered her? Answer?
33:07
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but I never spent any meaningful time.
33:10
Speaker 1: I don't recognize her. I was never introduced to her.
33:14
Speaker 1: Question understood. And then looking at exhibit I, it's another
33:17
Speaker 1: photo of I'll represent this is the same woman. Where
33:20
Speaker 1: was this taken? Answer? Can we look at chronology? We
33:24
Speaker 1: believe this was taken at the end of the meeting
33:26
Speaker 1: on February twenty seventh, twenty thirteen, after a meeting at
33:30
Speaker 1: the Four Seasons. Question was there anyone else there? Answer? Oh, yeah,
33:35
Speaker 1: there's Epstein and other people doctor Nikolic. Question the other
33:39
Speaker 1: people that were attending that meeting. Answer she was not
33:42
Speaker 1: in the meeting, but at the end of the meeting.
33:44
Speaker 1: This was another case where he asked me to take
33:47
Speaker 1: a photo with one of his assistants, which I did.
33:50
Speaker 1: Question Epstein asked you to answer yes, question did he
33:53
Speaker 1: take the photo? Answer? I think so? Yes. Question understood.
33:58
Speaker 1: And your understanding of their relations was that she was
34:01
Speaker 1: his administrative assistant. Is that correct? Answer? I knew she
34:06
Speaker 1: came with him and didn't sit in on the meeting
34:08
Speaker 1: and so I made that guess, but I was never
34:10
Speaker 1: told that her connection Depstein or what it was. Question
34:14
Speaker 1: understood and did you ever become aware of Epstein's actually
34:17
Speaker 1: abusing this woman? Answer? No question, Thank you. I'm now
34:21
Speaker 1: going to introduce minority exhibit Jay. Question. This is a
34:26
Speaker 1: photo of you and a group of individuals. Could you
34:28
Speaker 1: please identify who the people are? Answer? I recognize myself.
34:32
Speaker 1: I don't recognize anyone else in the photo. What do
34:35
Speaker 1: you know about when I was taken? Question? I was
34:38
Speaker 1: actually planning to ask you that we don't have the
34:40
Speaker 1: dates on these photos, so Gates cuts them off. But
34:44
Speaker 1: do you know who these people are? Question? I'm asking you.
34:47
Speaker 1: We are aware that this is the same woman as
34:49
Speaker 1: the previous photos redacted, but we were hoping that you
34:52
Speaker 1: would identify the other individual in the photo redacted, indicating
34:57
Speaker 1: that the first woman from the right hand side of
34:59
Speaker 1: the photo. Gates, where is this taken? Question? That's the
35:03
Speaker 1: question that we have for you. We don't have any
35:05
Speaker 1: context when we get these photos. There's no date with them,
35:09
Speaker 1: and we aren't aware of where this is being taken,
35:11
Speaker 1: so we're hoping that you could provide some context for us. Answer.
35:15
Speaker 1: I don't recall this photo being taken. I mean there's
35:18
Speaker 1: kind of a distinct stuff in the background. I would
35:20
Speaker 1: assume that somebody was serious about this they could figure
35:23
Speaker 1: out where it was taken. Question you have no recollection
35:26
Speaker 1: of being in the room or with these individuals? Answer? No,
35:30
Speaker 1: question understood. I'll now introduce minority exhibit K. Mister Moran, Sorry,
35:35
Speaker 1: this has been Mark Kay redacted. Question. Yes Moran, thank you.
35:43
Speaker 1: Question mister Gates, could you please identify the individuals in
35:46
Speaker 1: this photo? Gates, it's interesting all of these are unredacted.
35:50
Speaker 1: On the left is I think it's Terry Rod Larson.
35:53
Speaker 1: There's a small chance, as jaglined, but that's a Norwegian.
35:56
Speaker 1: Then there's me, Then there's one of Epstein's ADMIN assistants,
36:00
Speaker 1: and there's Epstein himself. And we can identify the date
36:03
Speaker 1: this is taken I believe somewhere in Epstein's New York residence,
36:06
Speaker 1: and this is when after dinner, David Blaine came over
36:09
Speaker 1: and was doing several magic tricks, and one or two
36:12
Speaker 1: of the ADMIN state while he did those tricks, I
36:15
Speaker 1: was not introduced, so I don't know the name. Question
36:19
Speaker 1: and mister Gates, just for the record, when you're identifying
36:22
Speaker 1: these individuals, you're moving from the left to the right
36:25
Speaker 1: across exhibit K. Mister Gates, that's right, and we think
36:29
Speaker 1: this is after a February after a February twenty seventh,
36:33
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen dinner at Epstein's residence. Question, okay, that makes sense.
36:40
Speaker 1: The only other question I have for you on this
36:42
Speaker 1: photo is you said the admin assistant stayed. They weren't
36:45
Speaker 1: at the dinner and they came after. Is that correct? Answer?
36:49
Speaker 1: They may have been in another room in the residence.
36:52
Speaker 1: They were not at the dinner. Question and then they
36:54
Speaker 1: came for mister Blaine. Answer, well, we went to a
36:57
Speaker 1: different room from the magic trick that have been where
37:00
Speaker 1: they had been the whole time? I don't know where
37:02
Speaker 1: they were during dinner? Question understood. And this first woman
37:07
Speaker 1: holding the card i'll represent that is also redacted? Who
37:11
Speaker 1: was in the three previous photos? Are you aware of
37:13
Speaker 1: who the other woman is? Answer? No? Question Were you
37:18
Speaker 1: weren't introduced to either of them? Answer? I was not.
37:21
Speaker 1: All right, folks, We're gonna wrap up right here and
37:22
Speaker 1: in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna
37:25
Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. All the information that
37:28
Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.
37:31
Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
37:34
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where
37:37
Speaker 1: we left off with the Bill Gates testimony to Congress.
37:43
Speaker 1: Question Okay, finally I'll introduce minority exhibit. Oh. Question, could
37:49
Speaker 1: you please identify the individuals in this photo for me? Answer? Yeah,
37:53
Speaker 1: So the person on the left is me, The person
37:56
Speaker 1: in the middle is Eva Dubin. The person on the
37:58
Speaker 1: right is some friend of you, Dubins who I was
38:01
Speaker 1: introduced to, but I don't remember her name. Question Okay,
38:04
Speaker 1: I'll represent that that is Corinnia Shuliac that was Epstein's
38:08
Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time. Was this the occasion that you
38:12
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier when miss Dubin came to meet you after
38:15
Speaker 1: a meeting? Answer? Yes, this is, we believe, Gates says
38:20
Speaker 1: in August of twenty Is that right? August twentieth, twenty eleven,
38:24
Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Sorry, question this is at the four seasons?
38:28
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Gates? Yes, I believe so. Question and
38:32
Speaker 1: was this gets cut off by Gates after a meeting
38:36
Speaker 1: that they did not attend? Question? Was the meeting just
38:38
Speaker 1: you and mister Epstein. Answer no, I think doctor Nikolach
38:41
Speaker 1: was there. Question was this the only time that you
38:44
Speaker 1: met Miss Dubin? Answer no, Miss Dubin. You know she
38:47
Speaker 1: and her husband, Glenn are a member of the Giving Pledge.
38:50
Speaker 1: You know they have a property in North Salem. That's
38:53
Speaker 1: near where my daughter has a property. I've met Eva
38:55
Speaker 1: Dubin at events several times, including I already mentioned she
38:59
Speaker 1: came by after the January thirty first, twenty eleven, the
39:03
Speaker 1: first dinner I had with mister Epstein. Question were those
39:06
Speaker 1: two occasions that you were with Miss Dubin and mister
39:08
Speaker 1: Epstein together? Answer? That's right. Question okay, answer and that
39:13
Speaker 1: was the only time that I saw in his presence?
39:16
Speaker 1: Question okay, And did you ever meet this other woman,
39:18
Speaker 1: Miss s Juliac ever? Again, was this the only time? Answer?
39:22
Speaker 1: I don't believe so. Question Okay, that's all redacted. We're
39:26
Speaker 1: gonna have some members ask some questions, but before we do,
39:29
Speaker 1: the members who have just entered the room for the
39:31
Speaker 1: first time, can you please identify yourselves for the record.
39:35
Speaker 1: James Walkinshaw, Virginia eleventh District, Maxwell Frost, Florida ten, Wesley Bell,
39:41
Speaker 1: Missouri Walkinshaw, mister Gates, thank you for being here, and
39:45
Speaker 1: I just want to start by thanking you for your
39:47
Speaker 1: philanthropic work and your work on global health, which is
39:51
Speaker 1: save countless lives. I want to go back. I know
39:53
Speaker 1: there's been some conversation about Melanie Walker and earlier I
39:57
Speaker 1: know the exhibit A was introduced the article published in
40:00
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal on June seventh titled the Hidden
40:03
Speaker 1: Figure with close Ties to Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein,
40:07
Speaker 1: and on the bottom of page four of that article,
40:10
Speaker 1: it reads, Walker has told several people she met Epstein
40:13
Speaker 1: and Trump at the Plaza Hotel in the early nineteen
40:16
Speaker 1: ninety nine. Got it okay? Gates, Yeah, Walkinshaw in the
40:20
Speaker 1: early nineties after graduating with honors from the University of Texas.
40:25
Speaker 1: In a twenty eighteen email introducing a neurosurgeon to Epstein,
40:28
Speaker 1: she wrote, I've known Jeffrey twenty eight years and this
40:31
Speaker 1: isn't a joke. Donald Trump introduced us. Did Miss Walker
40:35
Speaker 1: ever discuss with you her connection to Donald Trump? Gates? No, Walkinshaw,
40:40
Speaker 1: Did you ever have any awareness that Epstein and Miss
40:43
Speaker 1: Walker were introduced to each other by Donald Trump? Had
40:47
Speaker 1: you ever heard that before you saw the article, Gates,
40:49
Speaker 1: I have not question. Okay. The article also referenced that
40:53
Speaker 1: miss Walker had in her possession potentially embarrassing blue dress emails.
40:57
Speaker 1: On page nine, it describes the back and forth between
41:00
Speaker 1: Walker and Epstein, apparently, I think, referring to you in
41:04
Speaker 1: September of twenty seventeen. The article reads again, on page nine,
41:09
Speaker 1: Walker provided an inventory of her ammunition. Yes, I have
41:13
Speaker 1: a blue dress email and a few other embarrassing things,
41:16
Speaker 1: and yes, the stories are so eerily similar to all
41:19
Speaker 1: in media that he sounds Weinstein like. I can't be
41:22
Speaker 1: the only one. Mister Gates, do you know what the
41:26
Speaker 1: blue dress email that Miss Walker is referring to? Do
41:29
Speaker 1: you have any sense of what it is? What they are? Gates?
41:33
Speaker 1: I think I said earlier the blue dress could be
41:35
Speaker 1: a reference to Monica Lewinsky, But I don't know what
41:38
Speaker 1: a blue dress email would be Walkinshaw. Okay. And in
41:42
Speaker 1: your opinion, why do you think miss Walker would have
41:44
Speaker 1: shared potentially these emails if they exist with mister Epstein. Gates,
41:49
Speaker 1: you know, I don't have an explanation for that she
41:52
Speaker 1: was in touch with them and saying what she said,
41:55
Speaker 1: I had a cordial, friendly relationship with doctor Walker, both
41:58
Speaker 1: before and after the time of any of these communications. Walkinshaw, okay,
42:03
Speaker 1: any sense that it may have been part of the
42:04
Speaker 1: Epstein effort to generate leverage or potentially blackmail you, perhaps, Gates,
42:09
Speaker 1: it's possible that Epstein encouraged doctor Walker to send these
42:12
Speaker 1: emails to him as some part of a possible future
42:15
Speaker 1: either blackmail or attempt to re establish a relationship with me.
42:19
Speaker 1: Remember this is over three years after I completely cut
42:22
Speaker 1: off the relationship, and you know, it would be consistent
42:24
Speaker 1: with sort of the strange way he was willing to
42:27
Speaker 1: use some truthful things and some lies to try to
42:30
Speaker 1: develop pressure. But I was never made aware of these exchanges,
42:34
Speaker 1: and I was not in contact with Epstein in any way,
42:37
Speaker 1: and all of my conversations with doctor Walker were friendly
42:39
Speaker 1: in nature towards each other. You know, she left the Foundation,
42:43
Speaker 1: but I continued to talk to or through twenty twenty Walkinshaw,
42:47
Speaker 1: based on what you know, having maybe reviewed what's in
42:50
Speaker 1: the files or some of what's in the files and
42:53
Speaker 1: the reporting around, you know, Epstein's effort perhaps to use
42:56
Speaker 1: payments he made to gain leverage over you to achieve
42:59
Speaker 1: the goal perhaps he wanted to achieve. How would you
43:02
Speaker 1: describe in your opinion, was he working towards an attempt
43:05
Speaker 1: to blackmail you based on the evidence that we have
43:09
Speaker 1: and what you know and your own knowledge of them,
43:11
Speaker 1: and how he operated, would you use that term? Gates? No,
43:15
Speaker 1: he never sent anything that I would call blackmail. As
43:18
Speaker 1: I've said, he made veiled references to things like we
43:21
Speaker 1: should all want to be friends. Now that I see
43:23
Speaker 1: the January release of documents, it appears that in many cases,
43:27
Speaker 1: at least in emails to himself, was sort of rehearsing
43:30
Speaker 1: how either he or he coaching someone might choose to
43:33
Speaker 1: blackmail me. But none of those messages wherever sent to me.
43:36
Speaker 1: You know, I never paid Jeffrey Epstein anything, and so
43:39
Speaker 1: it's a bit speculation, but the different things are quite consistent.
43:43
Speaker 1: That he would encourage others to try to give him
43:44
Speaker 1: leverage over me, but then that never came to pass. Walkinshaw, okay,
43:49
Speaker 1: because one of the things that I wrestle with, And
43:52
Speaker 1: it's not a question for you. But in July of
43:54
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, the Department of Justice issued an unsigned memo
43:57
Speaker 1: in which they said that they had no evidence of
43:59
Speaker 1: Epstein blackmailing anyone, and certainly true based on what we know,
44:04
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to blackmail you, but I think that
44:07
Speaker 1: what we have from the files and reporting seems to
44:09
Speaker 1: suggest he was working towards that or hoping to work
44:13
Speaker 1: towards that. Gates, he never blackmailed me, but looking at
44:17
Speaker 1: the emails, it raises the serious possibility and probability that
44:21
Speaker 1: he was contemplating blackmailing me. Walkinshaw, Yeah, thank you, That's
44:24
Speaker 1: all I have. Mister Frost, thank you. Mister Gates. Why
44:29
Speaker 1: did you choose Jeffrey Epstein specifically to help with your philanthropy? Gates,
44:34
Speaker 1: I didn't really choose him. He's the only one who
44:36
Speaker 1: ever came to me and said that he could raise
44:39
Speaker 1: billions or tens of billions of dollars for global health.
44:42
Speaker 1: And that was credible to me because as I approach
44:44
Speaker 1: people directly about their giving, generally, you know they're not
44:48
Speaker 1: in the position where they think through retirement, you know
44:50
Speaker 1: who's going to do giving what they want to give
44:53
Speaker 1: to their children. And the key time when people think
44:56
Speaker 1: that through is when they're doing their will. You know
44:58
Speaker 1: how much goes to the children. And then for people
45:01
Speaker 1: who are very rich hopefully they think of a large
45:04
Speaker 1: sum being available for philanthropy. And it was because of
45:08
Speaker 1: his purported relationship with billionaires or he was part of
45:11
Speaker 1: that tax and Will discussion, that it seemed credible to
45:15
Speaker 1: me that he might be able to raise or be
45:18
Speaker 1: a referral to help raise billions of dollars for a
45:20
Speaker 1: global health question. So when you say that he came
45:23
Speaker 1: to you, did he come to you directly or did
45:25
Speaker 1: he connect with you through somebody else? Gates, I met
45:29
Speaker 1: him after doctor Nikolicch had met him, and I so
45:32
Speaker 1: I meet him on January thirty first, twenty eleven, and
45:35
Speaker 1: when I have a series of meetings with them through
45:37
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen. Frost Michael Wolf alleges that Jeffrey Epstein advised
45:42
Speaker 1: you on expansion and restructuring of the Gates Foundation. Did
45:46
Speaker 1: Epstein ever advise you on the Gates Foundation? Gates never, Frost.
45:51
Speaker 1: There's a Forbes article published on April eight, twenty twenty six,
45:54
Speaker 1: that titled, quote what we know about Bill Gates connection
45:58
Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein as billion error prepares to testify end
46:02
Speaker 1: quote and its states quote. Wolf alleged that Epstein had
46:06
Speaker 1: been advising Gates on vast expansion and restructuring of the
46:09
Speaker 1: Gates Foundation, with Epstein proposing a way to leverage the
46:13
Speaker 1: Gates Foundation resources to accommodate many other fortunes from other billionaires.
46:18
Speaker 1: So are you saying that article's false? Gates completely false?
46:22
Speaker 1: Epstein never mentioned to me the organization of the Gates Foundation.
46:26
Speaker 1: It's not something he would have had knowledge of, so
46:28
Speaker 1: it wouldn't have made any sense. Frost. Between twenty thirteen
46:33
Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen, the Gates Foundation was provided eight million
46:36
Speaker 1: in grants to the International Peace Institute. Was Epstein involved
46:40
Speaker 1: in those funds at all? Gates The only connection between
46:43
Speaker 1: Epstein and that grantee, who did very important work for
46:46
Speaker 1: us in polio eradication campaign was that I was in
46:49
Speaker 1: Strausburg and Epstein was there at the same time. On
46:52
Speaker 1: that day, the chairman of IPI made a presentation to me,
46:56
Speaker 1: we can pull up what day it is, And it
46:59
Speaker 1: was subsequent to that that the Polio team investigated whether
47:02
Speaker 1: IPI could provide valuable help the as Strausberg March twenty seventh,
47:07
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen, and the Foundation developed a relationship working with
47:11
Speaker 1: IPI that extended until I think it's ongoing. As far
47:14
Speaker 1: as I know, and that work has been helpful. But
47:17
Speaker 1: other than that one time, I wasn't aware of Epstein
47:20
Speaker 1: having any connection. Now that we see the emails that
47:23
Speaker 1: have come out, Epstein was exchanging emails with the Chairman
47:26
Speaker 1: of IPI on a number of occasions, but I wasn't
47:29
Speaker 1: aware of any connection to Epstein other than that first introduction.
47:33
Speaker 1: Mister Frost. Vanity Fair reported that IPI staff included Epstein
47:37
Speaker 1: on updates about his work with the Gates Foundation, including
47:40
Speaker 1: intelligence about Pakistani Taliban polio outbreaks and the existence of
47:45
Speaker 1: chemical weapons in Syria. Why was Epstein privy to that
47:49
Speaker 1: information Gates really doesn't make sense to me. But the
47:53
Speaker 1: Chairman of IPI, Terry Rod Larson, forwarded a number of
47:56
Speaker 1: emails to Epstein. I only know that now because we
47:59
Speaker 1: see that in the Jnanuary release of emails, and you know,
48:02
Speaker 1: the doing polio eradication in Pakistan and Afghanistan is very complex.
48:07
Speaker 1: IPI has some very good people who helped us there,
48:09
Speaker 1: and Epstein would have had no expertise in that, so
48:12
Speaker 1: I don't understand why the Chairman of IPI have forwarded
48:15
Speaker 1: those emails. Mister Frost, thank you all right, folks, we're
48:19
Speaker 1: gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode
48:21
Speaker 1: dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where we
48:23
Speaker 1: left off. All the information that goes with this episode
48:27
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box.