Latest / Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne / 975 - Sherri Papini: Caught in the Lie with Keisha

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975 - Sherri Papini: Caught in the Lie with Keisha · Pink Shade: Reality TV with Mary Payne

• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Pink Shade. It's Monday. It's Mugshot Monday.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: As a reminder, next Monday will be ninety Day Fiance, okay,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and Tuesday will be Keisha and I covering the Virgins.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: The virgin starts next week on Monday, so you will
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: get our recap on Tuesday, which means ninety Day gets
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: pushed to Monday. So just everybody, just just follow the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Instagram it'll be there. Subscribe to the newsletter. You can
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: click the link below if you're confused. But this week
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: will still be Mugshot Monday, TLC Tuesday, but next week
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: will be ninety Day will be on Monday, and then
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Kisha and I will be on Tuesday covering the Virgins.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: It'll still be TLC Tuesday, just a different show.
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: She's mostly talking to me, you guys, because I totally
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: had to text her the other day.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I'site, so what's the plan for this week? Agad? Because
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: I totally forgot, not that she had not explained it
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: to me thoroughly.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Yes, I just kind of was like, oh, okay, got it,
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: and just forgot.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: It's a little confusing even to me. And when you
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: sent me that text. I was like, hmm, let me
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: think about it. But yeah, so today we're going to
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: cover this Sherry Peppini documentary that was on the ID channel.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I watched it on Max. It's four parts, about four
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: hours give her take, and you and I both because
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: we are slackers, watched it yesterday, like we waited it. Yeah,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: so I kep last night. Anna and I were watching
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: it and she didn't know the story, and like halfway through,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like, by the way, you know she faked all this.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: She's like, well, wait to ruin it for me. Wait.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: She hadn't figured out halfway through that she was totally faking.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: And I didn't know the story at all.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Oh okay.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: She was like, so it's not worth it for me
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: to go watch that other documentary. I said no because
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: the husband across weird too. And I gotta say I
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: was fully expecting because I didn't hear any recaps or anything,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I know other people talking about it. I stayed away
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: from it to specifically just wait to make an opinion myself.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: And I really really was expecting to watch this and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: be like, oh my god, she's a sociopathic liar.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: But sure, I think she's a crazy person. Okay, I
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: think she's scary. Okay, I think she is a master manipulator.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing. I went into.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: This saying, I'm gonna forget everything that I've heard, I've read,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: I've seen, because sometimes i really want to be on
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: the woman's side just because I'm a woman.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Like, agree, yes, let me give her chance.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: You know I had I had a different thought Kisha.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: As we got more into it, I was like, well,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: mm hmmm, it could have happened the way she's saying,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: but it also could happened the way the FBI said
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: it happened.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna go with the professionals on this one.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I'll be very interested to get feedback. So everybody,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: you can DM me or Kisha, Pink Shade pod or
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: the liber Aloune with Keisha, you can send me an
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: email and pink Shape podcast, whatever you want to do,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: dot com, just whatever. Let us know what you think
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: because and if you're if you're listening on Prime under Patreon,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: you can make comments as well because it's ad free
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: over there. So just let us know, because, like I said,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I didn't listen to any other recaps or really read
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: any articles or anything about it, because I really want
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: to just like you're saying, I want to do go
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: in just fresh brain, right and now. Honestly I sort
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: of lean towards your thought, but I'm like, maybe maybe.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: There was like a slight moment.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not even a full minute. I'll give her.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: Thirty eight seconds, Okay. I was like, maybe she's telling
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: the truth.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: And so I were you watching with James or you
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: watching by yourself?
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: I mostly he came in for like thirty minutes and
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: fell asleep, so I watched it by myself.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I was watching with Anna, and I think
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: because I had a second person sitting there kind of going, well, obviously,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: you know, she's telling the truth now, and she was
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: scared of this guy and all this. I go, then,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: how come he's never been charged with anything anything ever?
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Not one thing.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: And then the end with her parents that really stealed
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: the deal for me with what they said.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well let's go through it. I've got
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: tons and tons notes. And first of all, I want
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: to say that in my mind, the hero of the
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: whole situation was who we meet first in Part one,
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: which is called exodus, which is what was on her back.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Denise Farmer, Yeah, God, yeah, yeah, the lead investiger investigor,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: the lead investigator for the FBI on this case. Now,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: as the case went on, the years went on, she
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: got promoted and moved somewhere else, but she was always
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: really interested. She's now retired. Now. I would like to
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: ask a friend of the pod, Jodine Weber, her thought
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: on this FBI investigator commenting, because she usually has opinions
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: with FBI investigators going on, and Denise seemed to be
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: real happy to be on camera.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, I think everyone was exceptionally happy to be on camera.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: From her attorney, from the sister in law, everyone is like,
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: this may be our last chance.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Let's not fuck this up.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: We could get a reality TV show out of the
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: still life.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: We can become an influencer or what.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: There were some happy people like they are really happy
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: about doing this, especially her.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: So we meet to these Farmer I liked her a lot.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: She reminded me of my aunt Marie lu She looked
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: like her a little bit. Lead investigator for the FBI
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: in this case. Originally, then we have Sherry's parents, Richard
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: and Loretta, and then we have the sister in law Suzanne,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: just inexplicably in a turban, just no reason.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: That's her thing.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Anna was like, oh, I like her tattoos,
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: and I kind of like her vibe in her house too.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: And then Anna tries to go into ooh, she's using
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: white sage and that's controversial. I was like, you're focusing
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: on the wrong things. Quit talking. We had the podcaster,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: her name was Abby. I did not catch on podcast.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: She had I apologize Abby, fellow podcaster. We see each other,
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and then we have the husband, Keith. Now Keith does
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: not appear because he had his own documentary right that
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: was on Hulu where he said some pretty fucked up
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: shit about her. Basically she had Munchausen, biproxy and all
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: these things. Now he I don't think he is.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: An odd duck himself. Yeah, he's he's no saints. However,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I don't believe.
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: All the things that she said about him. I think
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: some of the things kind of track. I'm like, okayah,
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: I can see that, because this guy is I don't
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: even know what we're to use to describe him other
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: than he's just odd.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: And I think it probably was a dick.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he seems like a deck.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: It's sort of like in the Natalia Grace thing, It's like,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: the whole situation is so weird, but then you bring
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: in the adoptive dad and you're like.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Whoa, whoa, yep mm hmm.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of like that, like, Okay, now we
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: don't know who to root for because that guy is
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: so weird, so very much so so, Denise says in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the initial investigation, the way the phone was placed and
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: dropped with the hair specifically wound around the headphone was
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: a red flag to her, and as they start to
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: interview people while Sherry was missing, many friends said she
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: did this all the time. She would Sherry would disappear
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: and come back much.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: To me, I'm like, how do you do that? And
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: you have two small children at home? How do you
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: just like what in your head says, I'm just going
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: to disappear. I'm not going to tell anyone where I'm going.
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just gonna be gone.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: But were these friends from high school and stuff, because well,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: we got in the other documentary, if I'm remembering correctly,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: her high school and college friends were like, oh, she's
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: just a total compulsive liar, like you, huge stories that
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: you find out never happened, and I believe that. So
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: I think this kind of falls into the realm of
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: would disappear and come back. I don't know if that's
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: in her marriage or she definitely was having lots and
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: lots of more than one texting affairs, but never physical,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: just texting. It's just for the attention, it seems so,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Denise says. The FBI just says, this is a person
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: who wanted to embellish to get attention. And it seems
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: that Sherry has said every boyfriend, every person in.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Her life has abused her.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: She's got the lengthy stories of every boyfriend, every person
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: she's ever had in her life abusing her. And that's
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: also a red flag.
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: I think so too, because it's like, Okay, how is
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: it that every single guy, every single guy you've ever dated,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: has abused you in some sort of way? Right part
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: of me wants to believe that, But to me, I'm like,
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: that's pretty damn fishy that you're always the victim in
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: every situation that you're in, right, Like, that cannot be.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: I can see one or two boyfriends, it's every single.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It's the girl who cried Wolf. It's like, Okay, enough times,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to find out you're lying that when it
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: really does happen to you, were not going to believe you.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: You know, this could have been the case where something
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: did happen but no one believes. But it didn't happen
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: to me. Yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Look, feeding yourself is hard enough sometimes, but what about
• 10:21
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• 12:04
  Speaker 1: so she also had a bunch of men in her
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: phone under female names, and emotionally she stepped out on
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Keith a lot, and early on in the marriage, before
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: they even had kids, he found out she was texting
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: with guys and they did a post up saying if
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: she continued to do this and he found she was
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: having an affair, she would get nothing. She would get
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: no CUSSI. California is a fifty to fifty state, and
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: she signed it. She agreed, I won't do it anymore.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: So she knew the stakes if she was found emotionally
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: cheating again was she's not gonna get fifty to fifty
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: of the assets. And there had been a while since
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: she worked, so you know. So so people started thinking
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: on the internet, we see a lot of like Twitter
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and stuff like this shit is fake. Who was this girl?
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Blah blah blah while she was gone? This is a
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: gone girl, and they started thinking it was a fake kidnapping.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: We see Keith on TV crying saying I just want
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: her to come back. There's a fifty thousand dollars reward.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: So I always feel sorry for the husbands whenever their
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: wife is missing, because they are so tightly scrutinized whenever
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: they're doing these interviews, it's either he did too many interviews,
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: he didn't do enough interviews. He didn't cry this time,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: he cried too much. And to be honest, when I
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: was watching him, I was watching him through those eyes
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: were kind of like he's faking right always, He's got
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: a real cry just which is totally unfair because we
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: always assume that the husband automatically, we think the husband
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: has something to do with it.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting too. It reminds me of the
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart case when she was kidnapped out of her
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: home and people are immediately like, oh, definitely was the parents.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Right right, Yeah, that's what we think, you know, because like.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: The dad is weird. He seems like he's gay, so
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: he must have kidnapped his daughter.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Humh. And that makes.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: So we see Keith crying on TV talking about the reward,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and Denise says, look, here's the thing as the FBI,
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: and of course he was an ally to us. He
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: was helping us, but he also was getting in the way,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: like seemed like he wanted to be on TV a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: lot or something.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I think he's an attention horror as well.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: I do too, and wanted everything to seem perfect, and yeah, yes,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: And Suzanne, the sister in law who is Keith's sister, says, look,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: he and Sherry both had this mindset of we have
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: to appear perfect family, perfect wife, perfect marriage, and he
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: really wanted this idea of a perfect wife. And you know,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: she goes like, I'm not talking bad about either of them,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: but they both sort of fed into it.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: And I can believe that one hundred percent.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: So twenty two days after her abduction, she was returned bruised,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: chain on her waist branded okay. She says two Hispanic
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: female adults were her kidnappers, and we see this exchange
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of her being interviewed. It looks like maybe in her
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: house or I think maybe they went to like a
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: mountain house or something so she we'd get away. If
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: I recall correctly, because I remember thinking there are a
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: lot of leather chairs in this house, I think it
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: was they went they went to like a mountain retreat
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: for her to recover, and then the investigators came there,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: if I'm remembering correctly. She describes these two Hispanic female
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: adults okay, which is females generally are not kidnappers. No,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: but she's trying to indicate that there's these like two
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: Hispanic Mexican lesbians took her.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: And I didn't like that at all.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: I didn't like it either. And listen at always is
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: like it's either like the black man or like the Mexican.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Yes, And I hate that because it's like people who
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: already have like a scarlet letter on them for crimes,
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: and now you're pointing towards them like they've done this
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: horrific crime to this very petite, cute, small you know.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Whiteyond lady, white lady.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it infuriates me so bad.
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: And usually you're right, females don't kidnap females or any
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: one unless it's a child. Usually that's when women kidnap.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Maybe they're an accomplice, but they never just kind of
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: traditionally set out a kidnap a whole woman.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Agree, agree, So that's you know, that's concerning too. And
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: she was very flirty with the investigators like girl, like
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: I know, but if I just close.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: My eyes, what if I do this?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: And then like I'm so crazy, Like I had told
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: my husband come home and meet read for lunch like
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: so embarrassing. I wanted him to come home and have
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: sex with me.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: That was horrible. That was cringey.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You just the whole time she's talking to her husband's
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: just looking at his phone like yeah.
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, this is insane.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: But on the flip side, I've never been kidnapped, so
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: I don't know how you act whenever you you know,
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: or return home.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: But I don't even know.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: If I would be able to sit there like that
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: and be able to talk, I think I would be
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: so traumatized. I would I for me because I got
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: emotional because in my head I.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Think about what if that were me and I got kidnapped.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: I would be just so wound up.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Just here serious sears sears, and she's like cracking jos
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: and talking about sex.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: And she's very clear headed.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: She's not yeah, she's not showing lingering signs of like
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I find this very hard to talk about or shut down.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: But again, what we do find out later she has
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: several different you know, personality disorders that could lead to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: this masking. So and the branding on her back exodus
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: with the numbers. So Denise says, Okay, so there are
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: these like cults and things, and there are different gangs
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and things that will brand you. So let me look
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: up this particular passage Exodus whatever. She goes, Literally, it's
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: about the frogs being in the earth and then returning
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: to the sky and raining down the frogs. She goes,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: So this that makes no sense sense. So she goes,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: you know, my gut is telling me immediately this is
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: a hoax.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I don't believe her. And so she opened up the Bible.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: This closed her eyes wand this one. Yeah, that's what
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I'll use. You know what I mean.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: There's so many weird things in the Bible that you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: could put that would make people go down a rabbit hole.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: It means this, it means that. But when she was
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: just like, nobody's gonna look it up. So Denise says,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Sherry Peppini did not count on DNA, and she did
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: not count on the FBI. So four years after her return,
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: so four years she's lived like as this victim victim.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: The DNA found on her underwear was identified so a
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: guy named James. We never get James's last name, James.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sure somebody else there knows it. Yeah, Denise says,
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: at this time, four years later, I have been promoted
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and moved to another state, but I knew everything about
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the case even though it was four years later. So
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I wanted you I really wanted them to, you know,
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: bring me in or whatever. So we hear and see
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: some footage of the FBI going to James's apartment and
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: talking to him. We never see him, no, because he's
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: never been charged with anything. He's not a part of
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: this really. So after an hour of questions of him
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: being like, yeah, I hadn't talked to her since high school,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Like I don't even you know, he goes, ok.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: They new he was lying.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And again, you guys, the FBI does not ask
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: questions if they don't know the answer. And I just
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: always remember that if they come to your door, right,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: don't ever come to my door. Jim McCabe could have
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: remembered that in the Carrie retrial, because they came to
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: her door and she said, I just need ten minutes
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: really quick to change clothes, and they said okay. So
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: ten minutes later they come back in. They said, did
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: you call anybody while you were changing clothes? And she goes, oh,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I just called my husband. No, she made eleven calls
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: in ten minutes. Oh so, by the way, they knew
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: that because they had tapped your phone.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: So don't ever ever lie to the FBI guys, they
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: already know the answer. So this is just words to
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: the wise.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Just think justin case.
• 20:01
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• 21:40
  Speaker 1: sure to tell them it was from me. After an
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: hour of questions, he goes, Okay, look, here's the thing.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't kidnap her, but we planned it together. She
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: was trying to get away from her husband, so I
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: helped her by picking her up. She asked me to
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: do all these things board the room up. She was
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: going to lose all this weight. She asked me to brander,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: She asked she would In the first documentary, he fully
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: explained how she would like run and hurl herself at
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: a coffee table to get these brutalis and stuff. Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: I wish I would have had time or made time to.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Go back and look at it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I do remember him explaining in detail how
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: she made the bruises.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: So it's the starving part that I would have failed at.
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Oh me too, I.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: Would have been able to do all the bruses, brand
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: me all that. But I'm like, I'm gonna be the
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: same weight whenever I am found like she was, i
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: mean really skinny, Like I don't know how she had
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: that commitment to either.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: I don't either.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I don't either.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: So three days after meeting with James, FBI meets again
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: with Sherry and Keith. They call her into their office
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: and again they're asking questions that they already know the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: answer to. Right, so we see Veronica Allegria. I'm sure
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: I'm saying it wrong. Assistant US District Attorney's the lead
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: secutor on this case. Okay, so we got it's Denise
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: the epibia, we got Veronica Lee prosecutor, and five years later,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: five years from their original thing, Sherry was arrested for
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: faking her own abduction.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she thought she had gotten away with this, like
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: this is it. It's been four now five years, it's done.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: It's over.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: No one's going to be talking about this anymore. I'm
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: completely and totally free to live my life.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: So part two we go into I'm a liar. Okay,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: that's the name of this episode. Okay, Exodus and now
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I'm a liar. So she opens with the searing at
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: the camera. Haven't you ever lied? Hasn't anybody ever lied?
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I'm looking at all of you cameramen in production.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: You've all lied. Everybody here has lied.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: And she's correct, we just don't lie about getting kidnapped
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: and abused and beaten and branded.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: And so there we meet this author whose name I'm
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: completely gonna butcher, but is doctor Ramani Dursebala, I think,
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: And she said to me, yeah, she says, I'm just
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: going to talk about human behavior. I've never met Cherry Peppini,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I haven't even studied her case. I can only talk
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: about my experience as this psychologist and author, I can
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: only discuss human behavior regarding this case, okay. I like
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: when they flat out and say like I don't know
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: this person. Yes, you know, they don't want to get
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: their license taken away. So Suzanne, her sister in law,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: is saging in her turban and she goes, it's hard
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: for me because I love all the people involved.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: And I was like, huh, do you really love your
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: brother because it kind of seems like you don't.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: But also your brother is weird too, so I get.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: It very very and their dynamics because they're not close
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: at all.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: And then she takes in Cherry is Cherry. I was like, oh, okay.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: So she says, you know, law enforcement acted unprofessionally, and
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Sherry says, yeah, the statements that the family put out
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: about me, like we love her, we support her, we
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: hope she's fine. It's not true. They were not supporting me.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: And she says, and things were very different with Keith
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: behind closed doors. And so she gets out on bond
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and Susanne goes, she has nobody. This girl
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: has nobody, so she could come and live with me.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: And she said, why.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: Are the parents? Why did the parents not this time?
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Take her in.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: I know they that later on, they do, but why
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: did they immediately not take her in? And I gotta
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: be honest, the mom seems weird to me as well.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Yep, agreed, And the dad was looking the whole time.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Might both these bitches be lying? Like you just had
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: that look about him? Like I know I shed say this,
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: but I really don't believe any of this.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So she goes to live with Suzanne, and she
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: goes you know what, she might be lying, but what
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I see as a woman one who needs love and
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: help in a space to be protected. And we get
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: some home videos of them, like lighting candles and dancing around,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: and Susannah Keith obviously aren't close, and she says, you know,
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I felt like Sherry was my sibling, you know, not
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Keith obviously. All right, so now we meet Sherry's attorney, okay,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: just her attorney for this kidnapping. His name is Bill.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: He's got a handlebar mustas. They have a great shot
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: of him like looking up at the camera. And Bill's hair,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: The hair was it.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: It was just a lot of hair and a lot
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: of mustache.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, Because at first I'm like, wow, what a two,
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: pay me too. But then later on you can see
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: where it was. It was a little bit back and.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Like maybe that's his hair.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine he would pay that big. I mean,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: it's true. So hack from the valley, So Bill says.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Bill says, well, Bill says, Okay, she lied to the FBI.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: She did. We have a hundred places she lied to
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: the FBI. And she committed mail fraud because she got
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: some sort of restitution for I don't really understand it,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: for some sort of like victim fund. She got some
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: sort of respidence to the checks for coming in the mail.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: So she got mail fraud and she was lying to
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the FBI. So she says, poor little me, it was
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Sherry Puppini versus the federal government. Like you know, I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: was terrified because I knew I'd finally have to tell
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: the truth, and I was going to accept the plea
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: because I had lied to the FBI. That is true.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: And Bill says, well, there's a huge story to be
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: told here. And I don't know if I never got
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: the complete whole story, and if I did, it wouldn't
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: make a difference in the case I was there to represent.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: You lied to the FBI. Yeah, let's get the best
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: plea for you we can on these charges.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: He's like, the whole rest of the story doesn't really
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: matter to me, which I like. He's like, I don't
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: need to get into the family drama. I just I'm
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: specifically focused on these accounts. So the producer goes, so
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you're ready to tell the truth about what happened, and
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: she says, the truth is I was abducted, but not
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: by the Hispanic women, by my ex boyfriend James. There
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: was no consent. There was no consent to sexual behavior.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: There was no consent to the branding, there was no
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: consent to the abuse. There was no consent to starving me,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: to the chain around my waist, no consent. It was
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: all him kidnapping and abusing me.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Now here's something that never ever came out of her mouth. Okay,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: she never said the words he raped me.
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: No, she didn't say that.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: But we know that sexual activity took place, because that's
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: how they got his.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: DNA in her underwear, in her underwear.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: But she never ever said that he ranked her. And
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I found that highly suspicious, Like, hmm, you're right, she.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Didn't say, yep, he starved me. He held me captive,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: but he didn't rape me.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: She does later talk about her pain gave him sexual
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: pleasure m h. And then she just wanted to make
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: sure he was having ejaculation outside of her body so
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't get pregnant. It was another thing she was saying,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: but that's good raped, right, Okay, okay. So she says
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I lied about James's identity for several reasons. Number one,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I was in danger and scared of him, and number two,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell my husband. I had started off having
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: this emotional affair with him because of the post nap.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: So I was in danger, I was scared of him,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and so I didn't want to say who he was
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: for fear he would come after me. And I couldn't
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: tell my husband. I couldn't let him know that I'd
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: had an emotional affair with him before. She says, I
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: never physically cheated on my high spend. Ever, it was
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: only emotional intipacy that I was craving with these other men.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Mom and Dad come on the screen and they're like,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: we never liked James when they dated in high school.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: We never liked them. Well, they don't like Keith either,
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: by the way.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because they go along with the bullshit that their
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: daughter says.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Everyone is horrible, poor me, poor me, poor me. Yep,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: so they just yeah, right, they disagree with it. You know.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: It seems like to me that at some point they
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: were like some of this bullshit.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, you know. So, Sherry says, listen, when
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: we dated, when we were younger. Now, this was interesting too.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: She says, our relationship didn't last long, and we didn't
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: line up sexually. We realized we had different proclivities. Okay,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: you're literally like a freshman in high school. What do
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: you even know about any that? I was like, that's
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: a weird thing to say about a high school boyfriend. Listen, Yeah,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: people have sex in high school. Okay, but she for
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: her to say the reason we broke up was because
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: we didn't align sexually, that's a strange thing to throw
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: in there where you can be like, it was a
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: high school relationship. It comes and goes. We broke up.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: You know, we made out a few times and maybe
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: had sex, but he was my high school boyfriend. I
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: hadn't talked to him many years. That's it. It's a
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: high school relationship that didn't work out. Anybody can understand that.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: She made it sound like these were people that are
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: in their thirties and he was into some weird shit
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: and she was like, I'm not going to do that.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: So yeah, And to me, I took it as like,
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: you're in high school. People in high school having sex.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: State don't know what the fuck they're doing anyway, right,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: So what are you talking about?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: So then why did you pick up an emotional affair
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: with him years later? No, if he's got some weird
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: sexual kink that you're never going to do, so she said.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Sherry says, I loved Keith. No, I loved Yeah, I
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: loved Keith. He'd been my seventh grade boyfriend, is what
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: she says.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Like a kiss for the first time or something like that.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Grade grade.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So that means Keith probably also knows James because
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: they all went to high school together.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Do you think about that? Yeah?
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: And she goes and just because a relationship looks glossy
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: on the outside and they show him a bunch of
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: pictures and stuff doesn't mean it's wonderful. She talks about
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: the post snop and why he did that and stuff,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: and if he ever caught her talking to another man.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: She'd get nothing. Now when they keep showing these pictures
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: of Cherry and Keith, I said to Anna, as I do,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I go, boy, she has a lot of gums, A
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: lot of gums. She did, Yeah, she does now she's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: had in visiline. Her teeth are very straight now, and
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: good for her, who cares anybody want to? But she's
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: also obviously had what you can get to fix it,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: which you can get botox all up in and it'll
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: lower your smile so that the lip doesn't go so high.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: What.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you notice people on TV that have super
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: gummy smiles, Yeah, like Katie Kirk is on the way.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: I ever knew about this because Katie Kirk talked about it. Okay,
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: he always had a gummy smile, and she was really like,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: you know, embarrassed of it or aware of it. She's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: on TV every day, she said. And then I found
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: out you could get botox up in there and we'll
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: fix your gummy smile. So I started doing that. You
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: still have it, but it's not as bad.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: The things I learned recording with you. I tell you what,
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: I never heard of no shit like that.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because she doesn't have that gummy smile anymore, because
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: she does like to make a lot of jokes and
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: smiles a lot, and it's not there. And her teeth
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: are all straight now, maybe straight into your teeth helped
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: it too. I don't know, but if anybody's ever listened
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: to this podcast one time, you know, I'm obsessed with
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: teeth and dental Wow. Yeah, all right, So they had
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the kids, so so the emotional fair happened. They got
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: the post up. Then they had kids, and she got
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: laid off from her job with AT and T and
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: she goes and then the more I just stayed home
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: with the kids, and he made all the money. My
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: social circle shrank. He was controlling me. Where was I at,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: what time? When was I going to be home? You know, listen,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: that all could be very true. He does seem like
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: a weirdo.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: And she says, and James and I somehow reconnected and
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: I was texting him and it was all about having
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: somebody to connect to that would like have empathy for me.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: You know. She needs the male attention.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm glad you said the male attention, because
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: she was not seeking female attention or sisterhood or anything
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: You know, always has to be a man.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And all the women in her life are the ones
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: that were like, no, she pulled that shit all the time.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: She was a liar.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: She would, you know, because they could peep her game.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah right, yeah, And men are quite gullible.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: And the FBI, Uh, I don't know which is this
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: is this new guy, Peter French from the FBI him
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: a lot, he says, But God bless halfway through out
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: da I go, nobody could have slapped on some moisturizer,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: some aqua fur on the lips on this man. This
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: man was so dry, His face was so dry, his
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: lips were so dry. I go, you know, there's a
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: makeup team there. They could just give him a little
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: carmex on the lips, a little just a er gene,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: a moisturizer something.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: He must have said no, he must have said no.
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: But that man was rusty. So he says she was planning.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: She was planning a secret hoax, kidnapping, but just to
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: try to hide this affair, you know, so he says.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Peter French says, I wasn't on the case, but I
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: can speak to it. I've studied it. The burner phones
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: when someone has a burner phone. Yep, that's a big sign.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: They're obviously trying to hide something. He said, the burner
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: phones that she had showed previous contact between her and
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: this ex James. But at the end of the day,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: the only two people that actually know what happened are
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Sherry and James.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: That's true.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: His story is so wildly different than hers.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: But his is so much more believable than hers.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean, I'm gonna tell you something. If
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: somebody ask you to kidnap them and do all this,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: he gotta be fucked up in his head to agree
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: to it, to do it, and then after she left
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: to be like, I could ever trust a woman again.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so he probably is a little stupid. She's a
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: master manipulator. So who knows what all she promised this guy, right,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: if we do this, if we get away with this,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: I can get this money, we can be together, we can.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Do this, we can have our own kids. Da da
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: da da dad. So she must have been promising him
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: something like.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: Once I get once I get done, I'll get all
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: these victims funds and money, and yeah, I can leave.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: We'll be together. Yes, And I think that's what she did.
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: Because there's no way he just did this so she
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: could get away from her husband.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an extreme to Yeah.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, y'all.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: When it comes to makeup, I have a few things
• 37:01
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• 37:03
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• 37:08
  Speaker 1: went to an event. Guys, I went to two events actually,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: and I had to really up my game. So of
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: course I'm normally using my Thrive Cosmetics Liquid Lized Extensions mascara.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: I wear that on the daily. It literally makes your
• 37:19
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• 37:22
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• 37:34
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• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I'm using more makeup. So I was using the Brilliant Eyebrightener.
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• 38:44
  Speaker 1: A U S E M E T I c S
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: dot com slash pink Shade. So the producer asked, Sherry,
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: why did you say two Hispanic women. And she goes,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I was giving them breadcrumbs. I was leaving bread. I
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: wanted the FBI to draw the sketch and realize it's
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: James's mom. James's mom is Hispanic. Those are the breadcrumbs.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: And I tried to go with her on this. I
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: about ten seconds of me thought, oh, okay, okay, okay.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: The producer says. The producer says, what was the logic.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The logic was, James's mom is Hispanic. I'm going to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: describe one of the women as Hispanic, and I'm going
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: to make it look like his mom, so people will
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: then look up a picture of James's mom from the
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: nose up and think it looks like her. By the way,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: show us the pictures, show us the pictures of James's
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: actual mother.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: So she goes, it was fear.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: Now we meet Stephen Diggs, her psychologists. Now, once we
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: start with Stephen Diggs, a psychologist, the b roll shots
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: of her were so nuts of her like head swirling
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: around the head. It's like every Instagram or TikTok filter
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: where it's like the face splits and makes a bunch
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: of splits, or her looking in a mirror then the
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: mirror goes back. At one point, Anna goes, whoever, this
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: is wild.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Lot. They need to fill the space. Yeah, like you said,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: it is a lot.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: It could have been two parts not for yes, they
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: could have taken out all this and her like sitting
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: at the lawyer's desk looking wistfully and it's a black background.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, I think, okay. I'm like, I get
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: you're trying to be theatrical too, but this is super.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Amateur, super amateur. So now we meet doctor Stephen Giggs,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: who is her therapist, and he, you know, all these
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: people have permission to speak, so he says, I do
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: believe she was abducted. I do believe she has a
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: personality disorder, and I think she's finally broken through this
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: mechanism a line. I do think with years of therapy
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: we've had, now she's broken through this mechanism of lying
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: and she is telling the truth. She's worked really hard
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: on it. She has of course, Anna, my daughter, who
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: thinks she's a therapist and is not well.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: She might be pain.
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: She's not Keisha, she mighty. She was waiting. She was like,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: what's the personality disorder? Because I can tell you but
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I was, like, she goes, she has self defeating personality disorder.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: She works very hard to please people. She gets into
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: non fulfilling relationships and then creates other relationships to get
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: her needs met on all the different ways she needs it.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: She needs all this attention, so she gets into a
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: non fulfilling relationship, self defeating, and then creates these other
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: ones to fill the gaps.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: Did he come off a little bit like he liked
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: her more than just as a patient?
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: No, I know what you're saying. He didn't come across
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: that way to me, but he did come across like
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: you can't tell me nothing. I believe every word. She says,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: like there is not a world in that. I could
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: see that this was a made up story. He can't
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: see a world where that's true.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: And I see that, and I just took it as
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: does he have like a small tiny crush on her
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: or something like this?
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: But I see what you're saying. Yeah, it just he
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: was ten toes down for her.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he just can't see a world and that this
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: is not true. Yeah, So doctor Digg says, I do
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: believe she was adducted, and she did not want it,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: and she did lie her way through it to get
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: out of they're alive, as sometimes people do in these situations,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: and she lied so she wouldn't lose her kids and
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: it worked for five years. In those five years, she
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: did five years of E M d R, which is
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: I movement desinsitation reprocessing. It works on a lot of people.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: Durit did it on real Housewives of Beverly Hills to
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: get over her PTSD for being you know all that
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: that happened to her with the robbery, and he goes
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: and it worked, and she's broken through this mechanism of lying.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And she tells us Keith was constantly telling her, when
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and if I find out you're lying, I'm going to
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: take the kids. You'll get no money to post up
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: like he was constantly telling her, I'm going to ruin you.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Your world to be over. You'll have nothing if I
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: find out you're lying about this. So he's saying she and.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: He probably I think he probably did do that, and
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: he had reasons to do it.
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: He had reasons. And I think he also thought she
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: is totally lying. I just haven't figured it. I can't
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: prove it yet.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he believed her at all.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: And god knows what all she was saying and doing
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: at home behind closed doors. Yeah, you know, because she
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: wants to look innocent, and you know, she keeps saying
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: this for the kids.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: But I also think if it's because.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Of the money. So in April of twenty twenty two,
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: there's a plea agreement. She didn't want to sign it,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: and they went back and forth quite a lot about
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: the language and the plea agreement, and they put it
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: in as many changes as they could because she kept saying, no,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I won't agree to say that it said. The lawyer
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: finally goes, they're going to take it away. So you
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: need to just agree to what this is, take this
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: minimum amount of prison cendent, and do it. So she
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: says she had to pay three hundred thousand dollars to
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: the government and restitution for all the searches and all
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: the money they put out towards your search when she
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: had lied. And the assistant DA that we have met says,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk about the plea negotiations, but
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: she signed an agreement. That is the true story, okay.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: And Sherry says, I knew what I was signing was
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: a lie, and I wanted to tell the truth, but
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: we had run out of options on the plea. She
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: at that time she will tell the truth that she didn't.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, now she still is sticking. She's still sticking to
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: her lie.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: And look, I had a friend a long time ago
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: who told me, if you lie, you take that lie
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: to the grave.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: You never admit the truth. You just lie, You keep lying,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: keep lying. Obviously that friend talked to Sherry because she's
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: doing the same. Like She's like, I am committed to
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: this lie.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: I'm taking it to the grave unless another network decides
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: to give me another special and I come up with
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: something else, I'm going to tell the other truth so
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: I can get more money.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: I think she likes money as well.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, her house is interesting that she lives in that
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: they keep show gear and I'm like, how does she
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: have this house? What job does she have? It's a
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: nice house, it's big.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Well because what we later found out that was her
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: friend's house that she's just staying in.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't hear her say that she gets.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Herself together it was her fourth episode.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Or maybe she's living with her parents. I don't know.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: I do know she was dating some weird guy but
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's over. Okay. So the parole officer's note say,
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: it's interesting talking to her because there is no reason
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: for the lie. There is no financial gain, there's no
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: reason for it. So doctor Biggs says, she has in
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: addition to self defeating personality disorder, she has histrionic personality disorder.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: She makes things up, she exaggerates historionics, she exaggerates things,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: and she seeks attention from men by exaggerating these stories
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: to get sympathy. And he says, I believe it was
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: not a hoax. I believe it was a very specific
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: lie to keep her affair from her husband so she
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: could keep her children. All right, okay, all right.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: So Bill, you want to heard it?
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bill the big haired.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: French agent French.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, this is Bill the lawyer, not
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: agent French.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Oh good, Oh fluffy, Fluffy, Fluffy.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Looks like a walrus. Okay. So Bill the lawyer talks
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: to Keith, the husband, and says, look, we're going to
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: do this plea deal. You need to get on board
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: with it. You need to be supportive of your wife.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: But this is what we're doing to get her a
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: lesser sentence. And Bill when talking to Keith, accidentally told
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: him about the prepaid cell phones she was communicating with
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: James before, Like.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: How do you accidentally do that? And you are a
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: you're an attorney.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: He just assumed that everything was on the table and
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Keith knew she forgot. She was big mad liar, liar face.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: So Suzanne, the sister in law, says, okay, Keith comes
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: over to my house. He's holding these paperses he's very upset.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: And Sherry heard him coming up and like threw the
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: phone under the bed recording and Keith goes, look, here's
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: the thing. You're about to go away for prison for
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: eighteen months. I need you just signed this document. You
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: need to relinquish the rights to the kids so I
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: can make all the you know things for them why
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: you're gone. And you need to linquash the rights to
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: the kids. And by the way, if you don't, because
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: while you're in prison, if I deem it, so you
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: won't be allowed to see the kids. So you should
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: go ahead and sign this.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: So she thought this recording was gonna be a big
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: flex for her make her look like, oh he's so abusive.
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: I would have said the same thing, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: you're going away, like I need to be able to
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: do these things. She really thought that recording was gonna
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: be this big moment, like, look.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: How awful who he is. Look how abusive he is
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: to me. Listen to how he threatened me. That wasn't
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: the case at all, Like it's exactly what I would
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: have done.
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you need to sign this, and so yeah,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: she she goes, no, I you know, I had to
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: sign the plea agreement, but everything I've said is real,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: and he goes, okay, cool, you're a master at deception.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: You have lied, you have crushed me, and you have
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: crushed yourself, you have crushed everyone in your life. And
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: he says, this is easy and nice for you to
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: sign this, and you have no idea. You have no
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: idea what's coming your way if you don't sign it,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: And so she doesn't sign it. So she's like, this
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: is him, you know, threatening me. But I think he's
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: got lots of things he's going to pull out of
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: his bag. So six weeks later, she gets a call
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: from Child Protective Services and it's the whole Essential Oils thing.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: Now we see him telling the story on the other
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: documentary where he says she tied plastic bags around the
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: children's necks with alcohol soaked cotton balls and made them
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: huff the alcohol to make them compliant and knock them out.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: And she goes, okay, so I imagine she says essential oil.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, she's in some kind of MLM BULLSHITU.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: She didn't have a job. She's trying to wait, so
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: she would soak. They had sensitive skins, so she couldn't
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: put vics bafoor upon them, so she would have them
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: sniff essential oils if they were stuffy. And she goes
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: and it was loosely tied around their neck. They could
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: remove it. It wasn't like that, and it was unfounded.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: The file was closed. It was unfounded. No child Protective
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: Services thing was filed against me. We see his allegations
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: and she says, so, now what he's doing. He's using
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: the kids against me, and he's trying to take my
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: kids by you know, basically making it sounds like she
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: has Munchausen.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: By proxy, right, And I don't think that she does.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I don't either.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think she does.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, so we move on to Part three, Multiple Truths.
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: Part three June to twenty twenty two, Sherry records a
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: call with her kids five months if we're going to prison,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: this is when she's not allowed to see them. She's
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: only allowed to talk to them on the phone on Sundays,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: which does seem fucking extreme.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: That's a lot. Yeah, that part does hurt. I'm like, okay,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: you know, I do feel bad.
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: I feel bad about her in that one thing. Yes, yeah,
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: And she's screaming and she's crying dramatically and all this.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: She says, my kids were never taken from me by
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: the court. There was no child protective of nothing. They
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: were taken from me by Keith. And I was only
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: allowed phone calls on Sunday, which is rough. That's rough.
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So November of twenty twenty two, she starts her sentence.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: She says, of course I did not blend in in prison.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Now we meet Mo de la Mora. Mode de la
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Mora is this prison friend, and Mo says, yeah, look
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: at her. She was an easy target. You know, look
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: at me when I'm in you know, when I'm in prison,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: people are afraid of me, and I'm like a big
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: menacing you know, got a you know, mohawk and stuff.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: And so we became friends. And she says, the Lifetime
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: movie came out about Sherry, and we see some clips
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: from that, and everybody you know in the yard was
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: watching it. Right, everybody came out against her because of
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: the racist single, because of course her saying it was
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: these Mexican women and mogos, I'm Hispanic and half the
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: women in prison are Hispanic. So of course nobody liked that.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: She's this blondie talking, you know, it seemed so we
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: see her in all her prison roots in the photos.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: It was kind of like when Teresa went to prison
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: and she's in these pictures with these black chicks and
• 52:10
  Speaker 3: shit like that. People you know, she would not hang
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: out with at all on the outside, like she stuck
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: out like a sore thumb. And it almost looked like, okay, guys,
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: we're gonna take this picture, but don't get too close
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: to me.
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: The Sherry ones were so similar to the Teresa Judice
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: ones because in every picture, Cherry's in the middle and
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: all the minches are flanking her, like all her head
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: Mitch sawi, Teresa always in the middle of the picture.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: So that was entertaining. And then she says, I met
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: all these women in prison, and these women had profound
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: effects on me as a person, and I'm still friends
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: with them. Well, I'd like to get their take on
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: her A lot. I only heard from Mo.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Right, that's it.
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: So she says, before I went to prison, I got
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: a law firm to represent me in my divorce and
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: family court. The characters, the hits keep fucking coming on
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: this show, these cars.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: It's a big one. Yeah.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: I was like, whoa, Okay, we meet Chase and Van,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: Kenny and Kenny law firm. Chase is the daughter, Van
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: is the dad. Chase has a lip piercing, crazy like
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: tease up blonde hair, huge earrings, tons of tattoos and
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: it's just real animated. And behind her she's got her
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: two Louis Vuittant suitcases.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, he is desperately and you know, I
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: was jealous about that.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: And she's desperately looking like I cannot start this interview
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: until I find my fate.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Hilarious. Stop, I got, I can't. It's on the floor.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's on the floor. I got, Okay, I
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: found it. Then she was able to do the interview.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: So funny, okay, all right, So Van the dad says,
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: you know, someday a show will come out about this
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: and show the truth, and people will have egg on
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: their face. They you're on the show. This is the
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: show man, You're on it, and it did not.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Show people the truth.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: So most people think Sherry is crazy or she's this
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: horrible person because she left her children. And Chase, the daughter, says,
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: so I agree with that. So I got the whole story,
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: and I know that Sherrie just did what she needed
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: to do to get her kids back. She lied to
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: this man to get her kids back. Let me tell
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: you a crazy story.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: This should turn a whole thing to be about her.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Chase tells us when she was eighteen, she went to
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Mexico when she was like on a yacht. She got
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: drugged and assaulted on this yacht and when she woke up,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: she was just gonna go upstairs and go on the
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: pier and leave. Well, when she woke up, there was
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: ocean all around her. They had taken the boat out,
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: and she manipulated these five men the whole time to
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: think everything that was happening to her was okay, so
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: she didn't end up in the bottom of the ocean,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: and they would take her home.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just agree with that. I would do I
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: would do the same thing.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah mm hmm, she says. So her manipulating these men
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: to think I'm on board with this, everything is okay,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: so that she could save herself was exactly what Sherry
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: was thinking when she was agreeing with what James was
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: doing her to make him think everything was fine, so
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: that she could get back to Keith and get the kids.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: So that's how you know, I was like, all.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: Right, okay, except for the part you lied about what
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: really happened. All of that makes perfect sense. Yeah, you
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: want to get home, you want to make it out
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: of this situation a lot. Right, But soon as I
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: get out, I've got the FBI working this case for me.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: I've got all these people. I'm about to tell the
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: whole truth to nothing but the truth. Please go arrest
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: this person and put him in prison.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, right, I did all that, But now here's the truth. Right.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: So the divorce happens while she's serving her eighteen months,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: which I think she only served ten, shea says. Bottom line,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: Keith was an abuser and because of the post nuff
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: post nuff, she knew she would not get half, so
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: she had to cock this whole story so he would
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: not know she had an affair, that she had zero
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: control of her finances, zero. Once she lost her job,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: he took over everything. She had, no way to get
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: money to get away from him, no access to money
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: at all. And then we see a screen that says
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Keith's lawyer showed documents saying she did have some access
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: to money, so.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: She also could have gotten a job.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: She could have also gone to her parents' house with
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: the kids and said he's abusing me, helped me contact
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: the police. She could have gone to Suzanne, your brother
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: is abusing me.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Yep, and Suzanne for sure would have believed it. Yeah,
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: like her number one cheerleader.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: Not saying blame the victim, because lots of time victims
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: don't tell because they're scared. That we understand. I just
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: am not convinced that is the case here. I'm just
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: not neither am I.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I think this guy's a dick.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: He may be a little bit controlling, but I don't
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: think that she was scared of him the way that
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: she wants us to believe she was afraid of him
• 57:14
  Speaker 3: and what he would do.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, you signed the paperwork.
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: You know when he said, if you do this, because
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: I've caught you doing it already, this is what's gonna happen,
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: and you signed it. You could have just not have
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: signed the paperwork. Yeah, the posting up.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this is a long way to go
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: to have him not find out you're having an affair.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: So yes, yeah you think. Yeah.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: So Chase the lawyer says putting those kids on the
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: first docu series was unconscionable, and all the stuff he
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: said about child abuse is bullshit. It was proven to
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: be bullshit. None of it was in their custody case ever,
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: So if he really thought she was abusing the children,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: he would have put that in his custody case.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: But he didn't.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: He waited till he was on TV to come up
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: with this story. And then the dad says, I can
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: see how the whole town was duped, and towns have
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: short have long memories, and if they find out all
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: of this they were duped, they're gonna want revenge, meaning
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: revenge on James.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Oooh yeah, James didn't even live there. Yeah.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: So mom and dad back on the couch say, we
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: never knew the things that Sherry was going through in
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: her marriage, mom and dad zem Real checked out, but
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: then in twenty twenty three, she moves in with their
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: parents after she served ten over eighteen months. She says, like,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: this is embarrassing. I'm thirty something years old, I'm a
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: mother of two, but now I had to move back
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: in with my parents.
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: Gu's what's embarrassing that of all the things that are
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: going on, that right there is what has.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Really embarrassed you.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: She says, My parents were crucified in the media. They
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: it was alleged that they had done some trauma to
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: me to make me behave this way. So they say,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: the producer is asking the parents, how about your relationship
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: with Sherry now different than you know before all this
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: happened whatever, And they said, well, when Keith was around,
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: when she was married to Keith, she was always hiding
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: her feelings, not telling his things, and he was always
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: trying to keep her apart from her us. Now that's
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: like he's trying to control her, and you can't be
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: around your family coach from control. This is what happens.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: But they seem very coached in their answers.
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: The parents do and they did, and you know, I've
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: talked about being a child that was in an abusive
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: household because that parent, and some of those things are true,
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: like I don't think for a long time, like our
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: family knew what was going on, you know what I mean.
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: It's like this big secret stays in the house and
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: the eventually it came out. But when she said them like, Okay,
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: that really does happen. You hide the abuse, you just
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: you do for whatever reason, you just don't want people
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: to know. But but then I still think she's lying.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: The parents said they had no idea that he was
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: controlling other than now they look back at it, he
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: was trying to keep her away from them or whatever.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: And the mom says, since she's been out of prison.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: So first they say to the mom, how is your
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: relationship different with Sherry? And the dad looked over and
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: smiled like, go ahead and say a bitch Like that
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: was weird to me the way they kind of he
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: turned to her like what are you going to say?
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: And she says, since she's been out of prison and
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: away from Keith, we have really been able to rekindle
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: our relationship, and she kind of tears up.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: Mom, here's the thing you know that they did not
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: have a good relationship.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: And I don't think it had anything to do with Keith.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: It was before that.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think now they're close because she's living
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: in your fucking house. She needs you, she needs more
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: people on her team. Of course, now y'all are going
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: to be close.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: But also if she has gone through all this therapy,
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: this emd R, all this stuff and now she is
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: behaving properly and not lying all the time, and the
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: history onic behadhavior and every person ever in her life
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: is ever abused her at once all that maybe they
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: feel like they could trust her a little more too.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: And the mom says, when she was younger, there was
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: some inappropriate sexual behavior, but I don't want to go
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: into details. And we didn't understand it then, but we
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: do understand it a lot more now. So they're saying
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: something did happen we don't want to talk about. It
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: wasn't them, but they didn't understand at the time because
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: they're old, how that could traumatize her. So they just
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: brushed it under the rug as many people that a
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: lot of people do it. Yes, and now too, it's
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: not just then. Yeah, So Sherry says, early on in
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: my childhood, I was sexually abused, not by my parents,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: and it led me to wanting to please this person,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: to calm them down, so I would get hurt less
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: if I acted a certain way, maybe they would hurt
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: me less. And my father caught somebody abusing me, and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: the family just never wanted.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: To talk about it.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: So the dad caught this situation somehow, so they were
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: very aware of it. And we don't know who it was.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: We don't know if it was an uncle. They're not
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: gonna say no, one's gonna say.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Doctor Bigg says she has a lot of dissociation due
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: to the trauma, and her painting her childhood as better
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: than it was is part of that self defeating personality
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: and the failure, the failure of the parents protecting her
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: or finding out about it or whatever and then brushing
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: in under the lug. The failure of the parents set
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: the stage for her to become this like viitual liar. Okay,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: so the producer says, okay, tell me the truth about
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: the day you were abducted, and she says okay. She says,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: I was getting deep into the situation with James, the texting,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: and I was ready to cut it off. I had
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: basically she had gotten all the attention from him, but
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: he was getting more like let's meet, and she didn't
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: want to do that. She just wanted to keep it
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: on the phone. And he says, so I just agreed
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: that he could come up and see me and say goodbye.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: Okay, that is not what you do with the breakup
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: to me six hours away. Yeah, you can totally break
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: up on the phone. You could throw away your burner
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: phone so he can't contact you, right and lock him
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: on everything else.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: There is zero reasons to meet him, period, point blank.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: So she says, I told her. I told him, okay,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: you can come and meet me to break up, but
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go on this run. And now we
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: see the start of what we get a bunch of
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: which could have been cut into four minutes, and they
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: made it forty. Her doing this run reenactment, Her doing
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: her own reenactment also is so fucking wild.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: It was. And how did he know where she was?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: This person you said, lives six hours away and.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: She was going off a road onto a dirt path,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: So how did he find her?
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: But he was able to just miraculously something he had
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: a vision I bet she's here, let me roll up
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: on her and cannet that just I can't like that.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: It is so unbelievable to me. She's a liar, and
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: not even a very good liar.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: So as we're going, as I'm going through my notes
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: and I'm saying it out loud, some of these things,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: I'm realizing that. And it does say at the end
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: of the documentary like you'll change your mind, like don't
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: base an opinion on episode three, because here comes episode
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: four and says it at the end of the things,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: which is interesting. So they said, okay, so did you
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: put the phone there on purpose or was it an accident,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: because she said both. She said she accidentally dropped it,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: and she said she put it there on purpose to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: leave it as a clue for that Wabi. And she says,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: the truth is.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: That it fell.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't put it there on purpose with my hair
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: perfectly wrapped around it.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Whatever.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: The truth is that it just fell out of my hand.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: And I have no memory of getting in the car.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: I have no memory of getting in the car.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: So you don't know if you were forced in a car,
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: if you hit you over the head.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: And she doesn't know if she said, good to see you.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Let me get in the car. She has no idea.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: So doctor Biggs says, you know, trauma stories have holes.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: They always will. Sometimes you'll never get a memory back.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: The brain protects itself so it's there, but sometimes you
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: can never get to it. You could get to parts
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: of it, but you can't get to the one part, right.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: So the producer says, so you agree to the reenactments.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Do you think that'll help if we reenact the run?
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: And she goes, I just can't remember it. I literally
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: can't remember getting in the car. I can't remember getting
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: in the car. She remembers that the iPod fell, but
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: she doesn't remember getting in the car, doesn't remember she
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: was pushed, dragged, got in on her own will She
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't know. And she goes, I know I have to
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: prove it. I know how to provide more evidence, but
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: it's just not there.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: So the producer asked the therapist do you think if
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: we do this reenactment that's going to help her remember?
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: And he goes, I wouldn't do that as a therapy.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: I just wouldn't. And it may not happen, it may
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: not trigger a memory. I do not think it's a
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: good therapeutic exercise to have her.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: Redo this run.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: It's going to be immensely triggering.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: For her, which I'm sure he probably told her that.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: M Yeah, and she did it anyway. Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: So she records herself in the car saying, I don't
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: even run anymore. All of this is going to be
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: triggering for me. I don't want to do it. You
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: could have stepped out of the car and said, I'll
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: fill you guys can film me just standing here pretendingly
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: I ran to the spot, but I'm not going to
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: actually run to this spot. And they have the car.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: They have the car that keeps coming by and back up,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: and she goes, you can film me standing here pretending
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: I'm running, but I'm not going to run. She's in control.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: So she didn't do She didn't do it.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: The therapist says to the production this was not her idea.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: You asked her to do this, and they said, right,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: she's agreed to it.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: So the other doctor, doctor Jervisala, the ones whose name
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: on the trim, says, people who have histrionic personality style
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: will go along with anything, and that is also what
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: a person who has experienced trauma will do. So this
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: is a tough line to toe that they're asking her
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: to do this knowing that she'll probably just do it,
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: but it's going to be super upsetting since she's been
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: through this trauma. It could be that she just wants
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: the attention, but it also could be that she wants
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: to be seen and heard. It could be both.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: So we see lots of one two three action on
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: the running Okay, run to the camera, Scherry, look at
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: this camera, Scherry, can you look at this camera? And
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: she's just stay and looking and she's crying, and they
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: keep Cherry, can you look at this camera? And she'd
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: be like, won't do it, And then finally she just
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: looks up and says, I don't want to do this part.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: And then she and then the car going back and
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: forth behind her and I just don't remember getting in
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: the car. I'm not going to remember, and I don't
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: want to do it.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: So doctor Digg says, if she's a liar, why doesn't
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: she just make up a story about getting in the car.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: If she's such a liar, she could have just also
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: made up a lie about getting in the car. She
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: can't do it. She can't. She is telling the truth.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: She can't come up with a memory. She could just lie,
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: and she's not. She is being honest.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: No, I think she is lying when she says she
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: doesn't remember getting into the car.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: Right, and she knows how she got in when she
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: forged she do it of her own volition, right, Yeah,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: because she.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: Knows they're going to dissect it and figure out the truth.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: So, of course, rely on the trauma of the whole situation,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 3: your child hood trauma, as a reason why you cannot
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: remember this one this one part she cannot remember. But
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 3: every single other detail, yeah, she does so many this part,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: so too many details, but she doesn't remember this part.
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: So doctor Jervisaliz says, our first duty a psychologist is
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: to believe. Our first duty is to believe a patient
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: is sitting in front of us. We believe them. Our
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: duty is not to be detectives. So we go on
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: what the patient is telling us and we believe. So
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, they ask her, will
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: you do a polygraph? And it's like, dunt, dunt dum,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: will she do it?
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, Part four, it's complicated. It's complicated, all right.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it's an understatement.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: So we see you're at home, and now I guess
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking this is her parents' house. Okay, are you
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: thinking the green room with the crafting house, the crafting room.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: Is that our parents' house? Gotcha?
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I think so, because if she's living with a buddy,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: that wouldn't be like, here's three extra rooms to make
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: a crafting room. You know, here's your one bedroom. So
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: she shows her crafting room, which is because here's my office.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: I was like, girl, what is your job? Now?
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: Hold on? So her living she did live with her parents,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 3: but this house they were no longer living in that
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: house her friend and they were like, hey, we're not here.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: You come and stay here. Get yourself together.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: So maybe she didn't have because it was like a
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: huge kitchen. Then she was like, I was like, what's
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: a nice house. Okay, that's her friend's house.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: So she shows this is my crafting room, my office.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: She's showing how she loves to craft, and she goes Normally,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: I like to get all my crafts and Christmas presents
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: done in October because I make got a lot of
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: homemade Christmas gifts. So I know when I was talking
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: to James it was in October, because that's when she
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: got Kidnapp remembers she came home twenty two days it
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: was Thanksgiving. It was Thanksgiving and she goes, so, I
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: know that's when I was making it, when I was
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: talking to him and I was telling him about this,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: and she pulls out one of her boxes and it's coasters.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: She said, my dad would cut these coasters. We would
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: send them down and then she would would burn on
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: them for particular people, for gifts. So she knows that
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: this is what he did to her wood burning, and
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: he doesn't really do it anymore because we remember the
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: story that James told was she sent him to Michael's
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: to get these letters that you do for wood burning,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: and she said, I remember when he branded me. Because
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: you have to do each letter one by one. You've
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: got to put the screw the letter on heat it.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Then Brandy, wait for it to coal, screw the letter off,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: get a new bread letter on heat it, brand it,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: wait for it to coal, screw it off. And they're
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: showing it dramatically, so it would be all those letters
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: plus the numbers, and she goes.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: She chooses to have that in her house now.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: She says, it took them a long time to do it.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: She says, I don't really do the wood crafting any
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: more because that would be weird, right, But did she
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: have it in that house? Yeah, she was showing it
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: to us.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, why would you have that? Why would you have that?
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Like it's been five years. It seems like she would
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: have thrown those crafts away, you think, so you would think,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: or these are all new crafting boxes, and so she
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: had to purchase those. So she says, yeah. And the
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: brand that it was done on me, it wasn't like
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: one big piece, right, it was letter by letter And
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: they're like, wow, she's so she explains how it had
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: to go letter by letter and then she lifts up
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: her shirt and shows the brand is still there, and
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: she goes, I don't understand the brand. I don't it
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: says Exodus with the numbers. I don't know what it means.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: And then but she talks about, you know, I can
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: remember the I can remember the pain of it. So
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: they ask her, let's talk about the twenty two days
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: you spent with James, and she goes, I just remember
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: waking up briefly in the back of the vehicle, and
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: not being able to keep my eyes open because it
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: was dark. So she was drugged in some way, and
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: she says, and then I woke up in that room
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: with the boards on the windows, and they said who
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: put the boards there? And she says, he's did he did,
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: of course, he says. She asked to have the boards off,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: and I tried to pull the boards off. And when
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I did that, it was the first time he came
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: in and hit me in the face. So that's the
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: bruise you saw on my face that was faded, right.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: And then after that he put a chain around my
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: waist with another chain on it and changed me to
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: this pillar in the closet. And she says, I described
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: everything in that room and the coffee table, everything exactly
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: as it was. All of that was true, which was
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: all that was true? Yeah, And again she's you know,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: she's saying, like I was trying to lead them, give
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: them these clues. Well, who could just go buy these descriptions,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, that must be an apartment six hours away.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know that's not how it works at all.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good try, she says, you know, I drew it
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: accurately for the cops. Everything and we saw that on
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: the first documentary, and he said he was doing this
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: to keep me safe from Keith, because I'd indicated I
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: was in this bad marriage.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: So he was keeping me there to keep me safe
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: from Keith. So keeping her there chained, why wouldn't he
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: just take her to his house. It's not like Keith
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 3: knows where he lives.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: That was his apartment.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: It was his apartment. Okay, okay, okay, But he just
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: did all this extra stuff. Yeah, for what reason to
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: keep she chained to a wall? Uh huh?
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: So she can't leave.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 3: So it's not like she can she can't leave, she
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: can't open the curtains. Yeah, can she not scream? Can
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 3: she not bang on the walls? There's so many Yeah,
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 3: why am I sitting here questioning a lot?
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: And I know to me, all the answers go right
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: back to the same thing because it's a lot.
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: So now we meet Brett Bartlett. Brett Bartlett has twenty
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: years experience as a polygraph examiner, and she goes, yeah,
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: I'll do the polygraph. I'm not worried about it. So
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: we see her doing the polygraph, and now we go
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: back to listening to the James interview from four years earlier,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: when he says, basically, I had a friend who asked
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: me for help. No, I don't have any drugs. I
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: have nothing. I have known narcos is what he sells
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: like rocos. He said, I, No, I don't know what.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to get it. I don't have
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: anything like that. So the producer is saying, it sounds
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: like the detective is leading James in these questions, and
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: Denise says, Denise, the FBI agent that we love, says,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: that wasn't the way I would do it. It's not
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: the way I would have talked to James, you know.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: But it's not the wrong way to do it, you know.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: It's it's and I'm gonna say this clear, it's okay
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: for the FBI. It is admissible for us to lie
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to people to get the information we want. And they said,
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: but the people can't lie to the FBI. He goes, right,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: but you can't lie to us, right. And that's a
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: lot of times in cases that we see, and you know,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: I'll watch a lot of Dateline. Yeah, at the time,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: depending on the police department or what they are, is
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: either okay or not for them to just fully lie.
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: They can put a picture in front of you and
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: say this person is dead, right, and the person is
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: not dead, and to see the reaction to be the
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: people like what, No, when I left them, they were alive,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, We've seen it happen so many times. It's
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: a tactic.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: Different jurisdictions can do different things. And she says it
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: is okay for the FBI to lie, but people can't
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: lie to us. So we hear more of this interview
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: where James is saying, she wanted me to board up
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: the room. She wanted me to do this, she wanted
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: these things to happen, and you guys, in the Hulu
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: documentary the previous there's a lot more details of him
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: saying she.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: Asked me to do this.
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: She hurled herself against the coffee tip and made this
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: specific bruise, all that stuff. So she says, I know
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: I was drugged, like the first time he brought me
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: a meal, Like, I know I was drugged. I could
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: feel I've never even been drunk, so I know that
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: I felt very weird, and and I was.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: He was telling me if I wanted to go to
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: the bathroom, if I wanted to eat anything. I had
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: to earn it, and I had to earn it by
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: getting him off. And the way he got off was
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: with my pain. And I wanted to be sure whenever
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: he ejaculated it was outside of me, so I would
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: not get pregnant.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: So so she's trying to say he just sat in
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: the corner and whacked off. Why because she was in pain.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: She's not saying they had intercourse. She's not admitting they
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: had intercourse consensual or not. Okay whatever, She's not they
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: had intercourse at all. She's making it sound like he
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: only ejaculated separate from her because she was in pain.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: I don't want to get into this too deep because.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: Oh I know you see him being quiet.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay. So the producers now ask the parents
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: do you think today that you know for sure what
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: happened to Sherry? Dad looks right at the camera goes
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: you have to ask Sherry, and the mom says, all
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: we know is she was very unhappy in her marriage
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: to Keith, and when James showed up and she went
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: with him, it wasn't a kidnapping. She wanted a little
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: bit of happiness in her life. She wanted to get
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: away from Keith, but she didn't abandon her children. She
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: was coming back. But no, it was not a kidnapping.
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: So there you have it right there. This is coming
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: straight from her. And here's the thing, Mary Payne, I
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: would kill for my child, I would lie for my child.
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: These people are not doing this. These people are over
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: her bullshit. It was not a kidnapping. She went to
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: have moments of happiness. Moments of happiness do not include
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 3: being chained up to a wall, beaten, starved to death.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 3: Like they're telling us right now, these things did not happen.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: We know they did not happen.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: This was crazy.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: They stopped the whole documentary getting ended right here.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: Right there, because this is this is the truth.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 3: If your own parents, your own parents don't believe you,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 3: your own parents are not even willing to lie for
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: you anymore.
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: They're done. They're completely done. They have found out the
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: truth and they're not going along with now. The other
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: episodes of it, they were lying, but I don't understand
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: the other episodes.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: They're like, she did have the childhood trauma, these cerebral
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: things happened. She her husband was very controlling, so Suzanne says.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: The sister in law says, I think that day she
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: thought she and James were going on a date. Mm hmm.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: So Suzanne is also saying she got in the car
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: with him willingly they were going on a date. She
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: wasn't kidnapped into the car. She did, in fact, drop
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: that thing to make it look like.
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: Suzanne, her best friend, her biggest cheerleader, says, I think
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: that day she thought she and James were going on
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: a date. But she believes that James then held her
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: against her will because she goes. But James never had
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: consequences for his actions, right, because they can't prove an
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: he can't prove he did anything. He not one thing.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: Can they prove? This man has not been arrested for.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: Any anything, anything, anything, I mean, So Susanna is sort
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: of saying.
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: Doctor Diggs says, I think maybe her expectation was just
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: to go with them and have sex in a hotel room,
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: but it went wrong. Doctor dig also saying she wasn't
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: forcibly kidnapped. Three people now have said it.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: Three very close people to her, your parents, your sister
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 3: in law who's like your sister, and now you're psychologists.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Who also there thing schologies think she's great. He loves her. Yeah,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: so he says, and if all of this is not
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: the truth, maybe it's a defense mechanism she invented herself.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: So just someone admitting to themselves that they got themselves
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: in this situation. They blame themselves, so they create a
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: story so they don't have to face what they did.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: So all three of them were saying, yes, she willingly
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: went with him, and it's too hard for her to
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: face that she created this whole hub. Yeah, but yes,
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: three people now have said she willingly went with him.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: M Ye.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: The doctor says, you have to face your shame. Shame
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: is very hard. You have to face your shame, and
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: shame is the origin of a lot of lies. Great point,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: all right, So we go over the polygraph with the Brett,
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: the polygraph guy. He says, I want to tell you
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: this is very overly dramatic. He says, I want to
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: tell you you passed three questions. Were you free to leave?
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: You said no, I found that truthful. Were you free
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: to leave without fear of violence? You said no, I
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: found that truthful. Did you ask James to brand you?
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: You said no? And I believe you all three of
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: those things. That she did not feel that she was
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: free to leave, She felt that if she did leave
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: there would be violence, and that she asked James to
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: brand her. All those He found your truthful on okay,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: but he says there's a next set of questions that
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: are inconclusive that will require more testing that we don't
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: see further testing. Did you plan to travel to southern
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: California with James on November second?
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: She said no, but her body said otherwise. And she says,
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: I remember telling him at some point, yes, I'll go
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: with you to southern California, like leading him on, like
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: telling him we'll have this great life. But no, not
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: on November second. It was November first, he was a daylate. Yes,
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: unresolved questions. Did you arrange for James to pick you
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: up while you're on your run? Do you remember getting
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: in his car? Did you enter the vehicle voluntarily? So again,
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: her parents, her best friend, slash sister, and her therapists
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: all say they believe she went with him voluntarily, and
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: maybe what this is saying that she didn't account for
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: what happened. Next right, okay, he says, we need to
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: do further testing. We never see any further testing, right.
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: So the producer says, okay, so in the polygraph, it's
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: alluding to the fact that you led him on and
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: made him believe that you guys would be together. But
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: that's not what you said to us, right, And she goes, well,
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of shame that I have wrapped up
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: into all of this is my fault, which is just
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: exactly what the therapist what he said. It's a word
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: for word. So she got that from a therapist. Yep.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: She says, there was never a plan for a hoax kidnapping,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I did say at some point being in
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: southing in California would be cool. And she goes, Okay,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: so let's just say even if this was the plan,
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 1: that she would go with him. Even if this was
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: the plan, the second I said I wanted to go home,
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: I should have been able to go home.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: So now there was a plan potential, potentially I think
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: she got there.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: She's like, fuck, this is like now national news. Like
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: I just thought it would be like my husband would
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: be worried for a few days.
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: And I get to go back. Yep, right, she think
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: he was going to get all of this attention.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: I think she once she got there and realized, oh crap,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: I can't just leave for a few days like I thought,
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: she put this plan into motion to be like, Okay,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: now I got to come up with who kidnap? We've
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: got to brand me. I gotta get these bruises where.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: He's like, okay, fucking crazy. Okay, I thought we were
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: just going to bang for a couple of days.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and he went along. He went along with it
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 3: because she couldn't. Here's the thing, she could not have
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: done those things to herself.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: She couldn't.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: Someone else could have to do it too, brand her
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: hand her side down, Yeah, and the letters be perfectly
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: lined up.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: No, not at all. So most definitely he did help
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: do all of.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: These things right.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: So then they say James passed every polygraph question at
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: the time, and we see the FBI footage of them
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: telling her that when she's in the room with Keith,
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: when they first told her we know what you did,
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: and they were like, what really happened? He passed every
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: polygraph question. He says, all of this was your idea,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: and she's going there's no way, there's no way, there's
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: no way, and she says, I never changed my story,
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: and so they said she never changed her story the
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: whole time. She says, James did all this to her.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: She didn't do it to herself. And these are all
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: the counts of lying to the FBI. That she agreed
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: that she was lying to the FBI and took the
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: plea bargain on yep. So the producer says, how did
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: you and James pass the same question on a polygraph
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: with different answers? And she goes, oh, because he's a sociopath. Girl,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: She goes, did anybody do a PSYCHOVWL on him? I have,
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: They've done psycho owls on me hundreds, so you know
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: all my stuff. Did he have a psych evaluation? He's
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: a sociopath. That's how he's able to answer.
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: He has no.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 3: History of any other psychological things, lying, abuse, being a victim,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 3: being an abuser, nothing like that.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: Now saying that that does not mean that a person
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: who is an abuser has been an abuser all their life? Why?
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: And that also does it has ever been caught?
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, but in this case, you know that they have
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 3: studied everything that has happened in this man's life. They've
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 3: talked to ex girlfriends, friends, employers, employees, you know, all
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 3: these people, and nothing adds up to Yes, this person
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: is a sociopath, this person is a pathological liner like,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 3: this person is a known abuser, nothing like that, because
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: it didn't happen.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: She did all this. So the other FBI agents, Uh,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: what's the name the guy the krusty different, Yeah, he
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: says agent krust Yeah. He says she could have changed
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: and told the truth at any time, and she never did.
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: And the producer says, is she the girl who cried wolf?
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: And this is all true? And he goes, if she's
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: the girl that tried cried wolf, she's gonna need paw
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: prints the thing about well it was funny, Yeah, he goes,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: the problems are based on her own track record, So
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: that's right, she is, and that is that's the rub here.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: It's like if she is now telling the truth, which
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't seem like she is. But if she is,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: it's so hard to believe her because she's such a
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: manipula of a yep. So the producer says, whose idea
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: was it for it to be two Hispanic women? And
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 1: she goes, Oh, that was my idea. And she goes,
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 1: because when I got out, I got When I got out,
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: we had dinner. Oh, we had dinner when she was behaving,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: and she was able to have dinner with James, and
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: we had dinner. And she goes, my husband's going to
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: find me. He's never going to give up. He's got
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: the FBI involved, He's going to find me. And so
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: James and I came up with this plan of the
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: two Hispanic women. And she goes, I wish I just
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: would have told her from day one it was James.
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: I wish I just would have done it, but I didn't.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: It feels awful. It still feels awful that I lied.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking about all these people looking for me,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: but the people from the church, the people from that
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 1: I wasn't thinking. I was only thinking of myself and
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: I participated in a cover up. But I just wanted
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: to go home, and I just thought he would let
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: me go home. So the producers ask polygraph guy, what
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: do you think justice is in this case? And he goes, well,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: the community deserves justice for what they went through trying
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: to find her because she did lie. But she is
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: still a victim at the end of the day. She's
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: just not truthful, so it's hard to say what justice is.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: So this is when she says to the crew and
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: the production, She goes, how truthful are you? I mean
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: I've seen all of you lie, like everybody have you
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: never lied?
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: We humans are liars, but we don't lie about being
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: kidnapped and abused and tied up?
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, no, I didn't eat that extra French fry.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 2: We lie like that.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: But isn't this interesting that it's so similar to like
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: Jack's on the valley or no matter what you say
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: to him, Hey, you threw a coffee a coffee table
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: and physically abused your wife, you'd go, what would you do?
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: I mean everybody would do the same thing.
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: No you No, it's it's that's just not normal. I lied.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: I like human natures lie, and I did it. But
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: she's looking at every person in that room that she's
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: been working with for months.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 2: He goes, you're a liar.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: You're a liar.
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: I've seen you lie. Weird, it's very weird.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: And they say, okay, so can you just remind us
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: about James's mother? And you guys came up with the
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: two Hispanic women based on his mother. Right, So James
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: is in this conversation, let's do two Hispanic women earlier
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: she told it they based on James's mother. She thought
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: that's how they would Those were the breadcrumbs. So they
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: said do you remember all that? She goes, yeah, right,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: so James and I came up with that plan. They
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: go and the woman was Hispanic. Oh yeah, And they said,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: so we have met James's mother. She's Irish.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's far from Mexico.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: And she goes, I don't know. I only met her once.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But if you and jam you plan together,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: he would know his mother's not Hispanic Hispanic, he would
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: know his mother is Irish Irish Man. So she fucked
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: up by saying James helped her come up with that plan.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: Yes she did, because James is not going to come
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: up with the plan that his mother is a spand
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: his mother to recriminate him out of way.
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 1: So she goes, whatever, only met her once, So she's like,
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: just forget So that didn't help, Like this is.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: No big deal.
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: Like it's a no big deal. Why we focuses on
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: focusing on what race she was. It's because you focused
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: on the race that she was over it over believe
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: me that two Hispanic women kidnapped you.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: Do you know how bad that looks?
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, it's awful. She doesn't care.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: She doesn't care, So they go okay. Our PI also
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: went to Arizona to meet with James, so we sort
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: of see the footage of that, and James is like, no,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to anybody here taking care
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: of my elder dad. Just I'm glad to know that
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: something else is coming out. I'll get in touch with
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: my lawyer in California. Thanks for alerting me.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: At this point, that's the same response that I would
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: have given them, Like, he says, bad enough.
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: He says she's coming out with the book and making allegations,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: and he goes, okay, I don't care. He goes, great,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: I have a lawyer for this. Thanks for alerning me
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: that she's writing a book. So he says, I have nothing,
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 1: you know, contact my lawyar So the producer says to Sherry,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: he says one thing, and you say another. So who
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: do we believe? And she goes, my only hope is
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: the person who held me captive will admit his crime,
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: which is unlikely, and she goes, you know, I'm at
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: rock bottom, like there's no more I can't get lower,
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: Like what the fuck am I going to do? And
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: then they just sit there in the camera's liner for
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: more than a second and she looks right at the
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: camera and goes, do you think this film is going
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: to do more harm than good?
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: Dad did not help her? If that didn't tell you
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 3: that this bitch is a fucking liar. I don't know
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: what else could.
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: She's just looking out for? Is this film going to
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: make me look better? Well? All right, So we get
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: the black screen to death and Sherry continues to fight
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: in family court for custody of her children. When reach
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: for comment, Keith slawyer said any allegations of severe abuse, manipulation,
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: and lying are faults and disproven by a mountain of
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: documentary evidence and objective, indisputable facts. James denies kidnapping and
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: sexually assaulting Sherry. He maintains that any harm he inflicted
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: on her was done at her direction. He has not
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: been charged with any crime in Canion, any crime in
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: connection with Sherry's disappearance. Nope, the polygraph was legally done
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: the way that the normally done. Blah blah blah blah,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: the plygraph. Okay, that's the end, now, Keisha. At the
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: beginning of this, I said, I still wasn't sure as
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: we've talked it out. Yeah, we talked it out.
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 3: I have to tell you that the thing that is
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 3: so disheartening about this is that she got so much
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 3: national attention for this.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And we have a severe case of.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: So many girls it, particularly black girls, brown girls, women
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: of color, that get not even a fraction of local news.
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: They're all local news, Like people don't even realize that
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 3: they are missing. Right, And all of these resources were
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 3: used for this woman, right, is a absolute liar.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: That is the saddest thing to me, because I feel
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: like any person that is missing should get this kind
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: of attention, you know, And it was wasted on her.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 2: And she could give zero fucks about that. She don't care.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: She don't care at all. She cares that she has
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: to pay the money back.
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: Right, And how is she paying the money back by
• 1:35:58
  Speaker 1: like appearances like doing this, or or like she's writing
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: a book or interviews that people are paying her for.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 1: That'd be the only way she's not getting it from
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: her crafting.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would hope that any book that she
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: puts out there.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: No one would buy it, or it'd have to be
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 1: all the all the proceeds go go to the restitution and.
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 2: Missaying or something like that. You know.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: That is and I feel sorry for her kids, I
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: really do. I feel sorry for her parents. But this
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 3: bitch doesn't care about anyone but herself. That is it.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: I don't know her as a mother other than you know,
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: she wanted everything to appear to be perfect, right, So
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 3: I'm kind of wondering what kind of mom was she really,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: you know, so if you've got her.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: Her sister in law Suzanne saying, I think she just
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: thought she was going to a hotel room to have
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: sex with him. Okay, so that's not being a bad mother.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: That has nothing to do with their kids. Her kids
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: were at school. Yeah, the psychologist says, I think she
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: just thought she needed no no. Her parents say, I
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: thought she just thought she was going to get away
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: from Keith and have an escape. Well, that is being
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: a bad parent because you just left your children.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 3: You left your children, and not that not you didn't
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: just leave your kids, but your kids have no idea
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 3: if you're coming back when you're coming back.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: You didn't say, hey, I'm.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: Going on to a spa for a few days, right, Okay, mom,
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 3: we know you're coming back on Sunday.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: These kids are thinking in their heads, our mom is
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: never going to come back home. Yeah, okay, so what
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: kind of trauma? And she does? And then trauma has
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 2: she done? Some them?
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: So Suzanne is the one that says, I think she
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: thought that day she and James were rung on a
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: date and the doctor says maybe her expectation was just
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: to meet up with them and have sex in a
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: hotel room. But her parents say she fully was planning
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: to just go and have a rendezvous with him for
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: a few days and come back.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: To escape for marriage. So yeah, that's not being a
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: good that's not being it's not being going away from
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: your kids. It's not being a bad.
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: Parents need breaks, parents need vacations. But you always tell
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: your kid, I'm gonna call you.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: You can call mommy. Mommy will be back here at
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 2: this day. Mommy's gonna bring you something back from my vacation.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 3: Not just we don't know why our mom is gone,
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: where she's gone, how long she's gonna be gone. Then
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 3: these kids are probably hearing all these adults talking. Dad's crying,
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 3: you're mommy a kidnapped.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, your kids in school are saying things because it's
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: national news, Like she didn't care about that.
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: Well, I changed my mind since the beginning, because we
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: talked it through and I read all my own notes,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: and I was like, I forgot at the end that
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: three people in a row were like, oh yeah, yeah,
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: she went with him willingly. But I do think what
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: happened was she went with them willingly, and after.
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: A day she was like, oh shit, I fucked up.
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: We're gonna have to come up with something here. And
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: he was just like, this lady is like throwing herself
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: on the coffee table. I don't know what the fuck
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: she's doing. You didn't she have him like throw something
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: at her to make a certain mark on her. Yeah,
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: I remember from that other documentary.
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: And here's the thing, James, you are innocent, but you
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 2: are not and so being fucking stupid because he should
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 2: have never when it got crazy, he should have said I'm.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: Out, Yeah, no, no, I'm not gonna go to Michael's.
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: And I really feel like they had evidence of him
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: going to Michael's and buying this stuff.
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: They I think they did say that they had evidence
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: of that, So he didn't do.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: It prior to right, he wasn't like ooh, once I
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: get her Exodus three point fifteen, which talks about frogs,
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: that'll make all the sense in the world.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and here's the thing.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 3: Your average guy doesn't just say I'm gonna go to
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 3: Michael's because usually when you see a.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: Guy and Michael's or a hobby lobby, they have been
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: tasked with I need you to go pick this up
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: for me, which is the case with this as well.
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 2: So yeah, he's a dummy for doing this.
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: You know, he looked cute in the pictures, which was like.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 2: Totally normal.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: I have faith in yourself, James. Well, now I need
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: the third documentary, which is James's story.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: That's what we need.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: We need third documentary with Sherry Peppini caught in the lie.
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: Part five, James's.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: Version, Jesus version of James.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: It's gonna do it like everything Taylor swept all this
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: on Taylor's version, So we need James's version, is what
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: we need. No, I think if we want to know
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: more about what James says, we go back to the
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: first documentary because he was just his voice has featured
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of him telling what it was. Oh my god, Well, Keisha,
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: I'm very glad that we covered this. I am too,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: I'm very glad.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: Very interesting.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys, Keisha has a podcast and it's called
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: The liber Lunch with Keisha, and now they're doing Questions
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: with Keisha a second episode where they're taking out questions.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: Where do people email their questions and advice for you?
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: You can email me at Libra Lounge Radio at gmail
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: dot com. And boy, did I get a question today.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh god, what did and how are we
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: going to figure this one out?
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: Okay? Good? Okay, Yeah, So when does your regular feed
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: come out? And then when does the Questions want to
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: come out?
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: Now you know we don't have certain days.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, Sorry, I was just trying out.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: I make a post saying, hey, a new episode.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: Is out, so okay, all right, Yeah, you guys. Keisha's
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: very funny. So I can't imagine what her advice for
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 1: some of these people are. And you've got a lot
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: of like crazy life experience that you can apply as well.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: Du Yeah, that is indeed true. Yeah.
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: Uh, you can follow me on Instagram at Pink Shade Pod.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: That's where you're going to find out about the scheduling
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 1: stuff that's coming up. Monday and Tuesday's being flipped next week.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: Monday ninety Dance, Tuesday will be the Virgins with Keisha.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: Once Love after lock Up comes back, we'll flip back
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: to our regular programming. But they do it to us
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: every summer, and we just have to ride this wave
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: because they didn't give us any other prison shows. Damn it.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: But we got Mama June, well, good for you.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: And Mama June and your thousand pounds sisters and roommates,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: good for you. That's what Keisha likes to talk about
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: on her show. You guys like those shows. Keisha's podcast
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: is the Player so.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: Funny, js are funny. Gotta love the hater.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: Mama Jew would fake her own kidnapping.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: Get a heartbeat.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: People would really send her right back. They just throw
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: her off on the side.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 3: We can't deal with this bitch at all. She talks
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: way too much like gotta go. I'd rather spend time
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 3: in jail.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: All right, everybody, we will see you on Wednesday. Kaisha
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: and I cover the Valley on Pink Shed Prime on Wednesday,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: so we will see you. Then you will see me
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: tomorrow with Kimberly talking ninety Day Fiance and on the weekend,
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: Amy and are a covering Hunt for Love. And this
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: Thursday we will have Pat and Ruby from bad TV
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: talking about Bravo News and Love Hotel.
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 2: Except okay, bye bye