Latest / Reframe / 25: Martin Annand - Mastering the Art of Minimalism

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25: Martin Annand - Mastering the Art of Minimalism · Reframe

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what truly feels a creative mummy?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: What do you number is their passions?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And drummer is their creativity.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Remind me as we delve into the humble beginnings, these people artistic visions, and this kind of help we as a collective refrain mummers of creativity.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to give a quick jump to the incredible thing that needs to be strongly.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: We can even combinate with the public promotion of quality scale by using the code ReefModel.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Check it out.com.au.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you and welcome to ReefM.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I had the opportunity to dip in with Scottish minimalist photographer Martin Annand.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: In this episode, Martin and I discussed how he went from beginning his photography career to creating captivating and distinct minimal imagery that has seen him win multiple international awards and honourable mentions.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: As a fan of Martin's work and being in the field myself, I took pleasure in having this conversation to gain an insight into his world.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: The dedication to the craft and the pursuit of all things minimal left me in a deeper awe.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not only is Martin's imagery truly something to behold, he is an all-around humble and nice guy who simply loves what he does.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoy this conversation and please check out Martin's work.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: You won't be disappointed.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show today, Martin.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, mate?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, mate.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, very nice to see you and I appreciate you having me on.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh thank you for coming on.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've been an admirer of your work for a very long time.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get into it and talking photography and talking shop, there's probably a few people over here in Australia that may or may not know your work, which I I find despicable.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um could we learn a little bit about yourself and and who you are besides a photographer?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Name's Martin Annand.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um Scott of from Scotland originally.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm 52 years old now, getting on a bit.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, getting old.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I live in I live in uh England now, um in a very landlocked county called Buckinghamshire, which is yeah, not a very smart move on my part when I really like photographing the coast.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: But there you go.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always about a yeah, two-hour mission to the coast.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Being photography being into photography, I think I've always been a little bit artistic.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've always enjoyed my drawing and such.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um but um quite late into photography, maybe about I've been uh doing it for maybe about six years now, and uh it was just kind of just a slow bar, just kind of had a had a GoPro, used to build myself uh cycling in that uh mountain bike um and then it just kind of developed and and I think yeah, um, and just I got a canon camera maybe about six years ago, and then I just realized how much I enjoyed it, how much and it was just it just snowballed pretty quick.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got I was just yeah, really into it.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's that mix of creativity and the technical aspects of photography, both it appealed to me, the both sides of it.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then when you start getting into it, you start looking at other people's work and then kind of seeing some people's work.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um say like um, I don't know, um photographers like Trevor Cotton, Noel Craig, um all like that.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um the long exposure work and in the kind of I guess I guess you could say fine art kind of style.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was just I just wanted to know more.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't understand, understood how it could be done, but just getting more into it, more into it, I understood you need filters, you need to do and it's just the kind of the fascination of opening your shutter for an extended period of time.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then and just not knowing exactly what's gonna come out in that kind of anticipation and just the effect of just kind of that slowing down time, especially with the with water and a kind of still subject in the water.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's just kind of it's just stuck with me, and um, I'm still doing it now.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, I can't believe like going through your profile that you've been doing that for six years.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's incredible to go from like six years to what you're doing now, what you're producing is unbelievable.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Take me through that process.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how how did you pick that up so quickly?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then all what was the point that it was like a light bulb moment into the direction you're in now?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like yeah, it's kind of I think possibly a little bit of an advantage for me was that I did a I I started out, I'm I'm I've never done it as a job, but I did graphic design at college.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: So having a decent understanding of Photoshop was probably a a good basis for for what I needed to do or or where I wanted to go.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: But um it was just I can remember the first long exposure I took, I kind of it was more hit and hope than kind of knowing exactly what I was doing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I think w one out of the X amount of attempts I did, it was like, wow, I can actually I can actually do this or I can expand on it.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so it's taken me from there, but I think I think it has just been I think what shaped what I do is kind of time has definitely shaped it, because I think initially when I first got into photography, and I think the kind of the big vistas, the the sunsets, the sunrises, all that kind of grab my attention.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: But then quickly, I think I I kind of came to a realization that's not really what I want to do, and it's not really possible for me to do because I haven't got the time to go to be to to give it all this time to get to locations and what have you.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I've tried to I try to make my like being limited, obviously.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think we we spoke with families, work, everything.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's factors outside photography that have kind of put me in this direction, I think, which which is a good direction, but um it's not having the time.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you head to uh a location and you haven't got the best conditions, you haven't got the the the right light or whatever.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of not having the time.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've tried to make it my photography time-less, so that you most of my shots you couldn't tell what time of day I took it in, you couldn't tell tell um yeah, what the lighting was like or whatever.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of it's kind of it has kind of forced me down that route, and also just the the minimal, the long exposure, that kind of that appealed to me.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the kind of muted colors and just the kind of more um that kind of imagery appeals to me more, and it's more what I would like to have in my walls.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'd like big vistas and sunsets and what have you.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't sit, it wouldn't look right in my house.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So there's more kind of muted, more kind of um yeah, I'm not documenting anything, I'm making an image.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're creating art.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Creating art, yeah, essentially.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that appeals to me far more than than yeah, catching a catching it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's beautiful to be out up at sunrise, it's beautiful to be out there, but it's not what I'm looking for, if you know what I mean.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it's kind of yeah, yeah.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it it is just kind of that that kind of yeah, I think different aspects outside photography have kind of funneled me down the route I've gone.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and it kind of it kind of works, yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is funny that we do say um that we don't have the time, but yet we're doing these multiple minute long exposures.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that kind of mis what are some of the misconceptions that you get from um people looking on the outside looking in in regards of you saying you don't have time, but we're taking long exposures?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's kind of yeah, I think we the time we have, I think, I think yeah, we say we don't have time, but we yeah, we are taking long exposures.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's more time off of like some people have got the luxury of maybe like, oh I didn't get the shot today, but I'll return tomorrow and do it, return the next day.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have that.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of like I haven't got a job that I can during the week is a write-off for me, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just weekends, and generally you're just at the mercy of the weather.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: You've got you've got Saturday or Sunday to to choose to go somewhere.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of weather apps are never a hundred percent.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you are in like I say, in the coast is about the my nearest coast is the only, yeah, the only kind of benefit of where I live is that east, south, and west coast are all about two and a bit hours from me.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of rather than being stock on one coast, I can, yeah, it's all a bit of a mission, but well, in relative times, I'm sure getting to the coast from someplace in Australia could be ridiculous.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: It can be.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, yeah.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's relatively a bit of a pain.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so yeah, so you so I think it is kind of like I say, I haven't got much time, but it is kind of I am limited to to the weekend when there's nothing when there's nothing that I'm doing with the family or etc.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then it is just that kind of you have got, it's just always seems to be like small windows of time, and it's quite nice.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: You it they are small windows, but then when you're clicking that shutter and you or you you're opening the shutter for a long time, it is a relaxing feeling.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: You're not rushed, you're kind of you've done all your setting up and everything, so and then it is that kind of short windows, but you are just slowing down, I think, as well.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you're gonna be able to speed up.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, exactly.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's a nice experience because you kind of you be you just get involved in it, you're just it's your little bit of time, like obviously like work, family, all that, and it's just your little bit of time just to just to do your thing.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can be frustrating as hell when it doesn't work, but you do you try your best.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you do you do get used to having um that limited time, and what I find it actually um helps you along the way because you're actually thinking about it clearer along the way down what you need to do, what you're trying to get, uh, whether the conditions don't play ball, you're quick to pivot.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I'm also I also find it interesting that when we do those long exposures, we actually get to take in a lot of the scenery and we're not hop hopping around and trying to capture that sunrise.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually get to enjoy the scene, we get a nice photo at the end of it, and by going away and doing that, we're in our own peace of mind at that time.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So everything is just released.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, that is the it is a kind of it is a moment for yourself, and like you say, if you you're doing a two-minute exposure, two minutes is a long time when you're watching countdowns.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you can be, or you can be yeah, just sitting down next to your camera, just watching the world go by, wildlife, whatever, or you can be uh looking for new new compositions, whatever.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it is yeah, it's that kind of slowed, kind of slowed down uh type of photography.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, it's it's good.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is good, it can relax you definitely.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you say from where you are now, you're roughly two hours to the coast.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um would you say the coastline is your your pref preferred uh location and or do you have something else in mind?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would say coast sea is I think just with using filters, long exposures and sea.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just the effect that that gives, that kind of this the rolling waves in the is like you can it can be the roughest sea, but you can calm it with your filters.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can make it as flat as you like in in just that kind of misty feel to the water.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it just adds intrigue to in a dream like sort of state.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah, for sure.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just kind of it just adds something, and it's kind of it just a lot of people or a few people have said my images can be quite calming, which I don't know, which which I can yeah, it is maybe the process of taking them probably uh maybe helps with this, but yeah, it is kind of yeah, it's that dreamy, dream like scape.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: It and I think the sea is the best for that.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I think like we said, um fog, we do get some decent fog in uh in the UK and that, and um catching that, like maybe kind of yeah, building in the fog or lone tree or something like that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: The fog can add so much atmosphere and in drama.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've got quite a few friends that are woodland photographers, and um they it just adds so much, it just we're just isolating the trees from each other and just that gradiated uh as as you go into the distance of the trees can yeah, just again atmospheric and yeah, beautiful.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: So just scrolling down your website, um, as I'm always in awe of your work, but I've noticed that you have won a fair few awards.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So could you take us through your your processes, what you you try to look for in your images before you upload and enter into competitions?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to say it's a it's a long process and it's kind of based, it's yeah, a lot of deliberation has gone into it and that, but to be honest, it's not no.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um that when I I won I won the um minimalist photographer of a year um last year, and I would like I am my own worst critic critic as well.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think I kind of I think it's I think it is maybe we kind of maybe stare at our images more than maybe the usual person, it maybe just takes 10 minutes to edit a shot and that's it, it's done.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So staring at it too long, maybe you kind of sometimes or I feel I can I I can pick out the bits I don't like more than the bits I like, so you kind of seem to focus on them.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I am my wor own worst critic and not always happy or it's kind of sometimes it can be happy, but yeah, sometimes not.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: But for picking the images, I essentially um I go through it with my wife.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: She chooses them basically, and she chose the ones for for um for the ones.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it just kind of I kind of bunch a group together, and then I'd I'd I'd trust her her judgment.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, and uh went through it with her.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was really that time I was we I talked to her and I said I said um she goes out and she asked if I was entering it, and I said, I'm not I'm not sure if I've taken any decent shots from the last time I entered, but but she managed to talk me round, put them in, and yeah, so it's a massive surprise, and because there is so many amazing photographers out there that it was yeah, it was a bit of a shot, but uh a very nice surprise when I got that that comp yeah, that competition is definitely not a small one, I can tell you.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think it's like yeah, it's a few it like it was 40 odd countries and a few, yeah, a few thousand entries.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah, it's it's crazy, man, to be honest.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I always balk at entering that one and and the N D as well.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I've entered the ND as well, and it you know, I did all right in that as well, to be fair.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, no, it's kind again, it's just yeah, again, it was I think it was uh yeah, with my wife's kind of backing, she kind of sold them.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I've I've entered I entered minimalist photographer this year again, but um I yeah, I I don't expect anything.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be it'd be very rare for I think twice in a row.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: But it's I think it's a good competition.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of some beautiful, some amazing artists out there.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably you know as well.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's just some photographers are just you see their stuff and it's just like wow, man.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is amazing, isn't it?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because there are a lot of us that that in this sort of um genre that we we are very similar, but we're also very different.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about the the difference is is what we actually choose to focus on.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I think so, yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's what it's it's what is what's available as well, I think, or kind of utilizing what's available to try and get the most out of it.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that is the biggest challenge, and especially I think in Britain as well, there's kind of to find new and different subjects, it is a challenge.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, but it's it's good to good trying to find it and trying to find some new things and just uh see where you go.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: What's the community like over in um in England, Scotland, and uh like around the Europe area?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because from the outside looking in, it looks quite um competitive, but also welcoming.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know I've been welcomed into that community with by like me yourself and and other like um other photographers.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I was curious about what the community's like there in person.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean the the photographers that I uh have met up with, um it's it's been great to be fair.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And like on on Instagram, I think.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it is just uh it seems to be from my point of view anyway, it seems to be very little kind of like competitiveness as such.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's more kind of supportive and yeah, just kind of more welcome and and people generally just up for a good chat or kind of and yeah, just along the along the way I've kind of met up and bumped into uh photographers that I've spoken to online.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: And generally, well, I'd say 100%, they've all been really sound and and just good good company, yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's nice.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: There is, I think it's uh I think it's it for all its faults that social media or Instagram has, it can be good, and it can be good for um yeah, a community, definitely.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: If used properly.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: If used properly, yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm I'm kind of I'm just on Instagram.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've kind of I've kind of tried to keep up with doing a few different social media chat, but um one's enough for me to do that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: It just becomes monotonous, doesn't it?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you kind of always if you if you neglect one, then you kind of feel feel like you're neglecting it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I've got my head stuck in my phone as much as I really need it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, one's enough.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, definitely get you because what you'd end up doing is favoring one over the other, and it's like, well, where's well, I think what you gotta do is look for where your audience actually is, not so much what the platform can provide you, it's where your audience is.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think I've been I've been on Instagram the longest.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have built up kind of
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: like a following and and and and just yeah a community there and so I'm yeah happy with that yeah when you go to the coastline what's your like what's your favorite subject because I I you go through your profile you've got like some nice pools here you've got jetties a couple of boats and chairs and like do you have a favorite subject that you will go to or that you'll lean to um I I do kind I guess it is like jetties yeah old boats and that which are getting fewer and far between I think the storms now that we get just kind of anything old in the water is just getting wrecked a lot quicker these days.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I'd like to shoot more just even more kind of natural things.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I go for quite often is man-made things in the mortar.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think like you know like anything from yeah lighthouses to there's sculptures in the water or like say old boats.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think more more I'd like to shoot more rock formations and kind of yeah sea stacks things like that but there's a few around UK but I just haven't got to them yet.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: But um I do or I yeah I do kind of scour Google maps kind of like flick around the coast and and kind of zoom in to anything that looks a bit random sticking in the water with a and and just kind of see if if if that's anything of interest if or see if anybody's taken any shots of it before and just yeah just try and scout about or kind of word of mouth sometimes and uh yeah and my I my folks still live up in like usually my kind of coastline is is round my way but it's it's nice to get further afield as well and sometimes when I go up to see the folks up in Scotland and can explore a little bit of Scotland which is nice.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um yeah it's again it's just all having the time to to get to all these places.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's never it's the never ending juggle is it it is yeah yeah it'd be nice to have unlimited time to do all these things but not to be I just want to talk a little bit technically here about your um your process and when you get out and use your filters firstly like what filters are you using when you go out do you have like a a a range a wide range where you're quite limited and two how are you um how are you technically setting up in time wise and when working out the dis the difference between light and what you need to do for your exposure?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I use case filters I've got like I haven't got the they've got new magnetic ones which look really good so you could a lot quicker for changing have you but um I've got the older ones um I've got a six stop a 10 stop and a 16 stop and I think I've got one um graduated filter which I very rarely use.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and um yeah I get a I think yeah you kind of go well I think maybe first light and kind of early in the morning maybe get a six stop on there because it's things are a bit darker and then as the sun comes up or daylight happens get onto the the 10 stop and if it's bright 16 stop yeah you just got to start with that um but I usually if you're setting up your shot I kind of know roughly what a one minute exposure a two minute exposure and a four minute exposure will be like on a six stop it's one two and four seconds.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Ten stop it's uh one fifteenth uh one eighth one uh yeah one fourth a second etc and um so I kind of have them in mind and you just try and dial in your settings maybe start with your shutter speed at one fifteenth and see if you can get your try and keep the ISO at base ISO 100 on on my camera and um and then just yeah try and do and try and it's all a jug it's all a juggling yeah kind of trying to make it work but and then your aperture kind of follows but you kind of it depends on what you're shooting as well you've got to kind of maybe compensate maybe if you need to bring up your aperture you might need to bring up your ISO a little bit just to just to compensate but um essentially there is these three or four kind of shot speeds that are my kind of start starting point and then I yeah and if I can get one fifty of a second and the other the ISO and the aperture are decent then I know that's a minute exposure with a 10 stop on there and I I just go with that.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm I'm always curious to see how other like fellow fine art and long exposure people set up this yeah I I kind of go down the route of okay I I try and calculate it in my head not very good at math so I try and calculate okay I've got this on but usually it's the if I can fit in 15 stop because I'm running Missy filters so so if I've got they've got the 15 stop like a they've got a three six ten fifteen yeah so and and I prefer the 15 because I'm shooting midday so um yeah man I actually I actually like those all drawn out shadows.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're pretty hard to shoot here because we've got some harsh light so well they said yeah I I yeah we see we chatted a wee bit but um yeah it's gotta be it's got to like I was saying it's with because I hate the sun because I feel that kind of especially when there's the sun reflects off the water it's just some of the you just there's nothing you can do with the the effect that it gives you that kind of harsh yeah that harsh light so I yeah I I it it's not one of my favorable conditions.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah but I appreciate I appreciate if you can do it if you've you if you can do it with photos then fair play because you know I'm yeah I try and avoid it if I can but um yeah it's actually here I mean you got the harsh rubber once you once you get used to it it you kind of get around it and you go okay cool I know what to do.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm actually taking a couple of shots so I'll take a shot for the subject with the long exposure.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um say it's a rock formation but I want to have a lot of the water I want it smooth around the base of it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of taking a quick sharp and then brushing it in I'll use the long exposure for the rock and then I'll take another one that's slightly um it's it's slightly darker just for the water just because then you don't get that shine it's not overexposing.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then what I'll do is I'll blend them in and then bring up the then take colour out because if it's shadows or something like that it's usually like a bluey colour.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we strip that back and we merge them all together and then we go from there.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: But usually I just merge water and then the sky is just the sky.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: I let the sky blow out so I get edges around the yeah so that that's how I do it um when I'm shooting stuff like the stacks over the horizon.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I think that's it there's no there's not a formula that's the right formula.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's just people have to find their own way obviously you can get you can get um kind of um help hints whatever from other people you can see it on YouTube and that but you have to find your own way as well and kind of in I think I think maybe I think my it's yeah being just understanding that there's not a right way is quite encouraging because you then you know you can just follow your own way and yeah don't don't be scared that it's that it's not what someone else is doing because there's many ways to uh yeah to get to where you're going I think so that's right and it's interesting yeah interesting it's like your sounds like your kind of environment and conditions offer up different challenges to to what I have yeah yeah over here and it is just yeah it's about how we overcome him and how what we do to to get to where we want to be so it yeah yeah it's it's good to hear how other people do things because it's like oh never thought about that and things like that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's exactly yeah it's exactly what we're talking about offline before about how we both bought Noel Clegg's um workshop tutorials and and we're going through okay yeah we do something very similar but that's a good way of doing it just to to see how other people have do it and it's just like yeah there's no right or wrong it's just who has does the way you do it work for you or is there a way you can better it and and that's yeah I think and that's why the community is great because you just talk about it.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's it yeah and it is just yeah just talking learning and it is yeah and it I think like say yeah no thing it gave me it gave me the confidence just to do it not to be kind of thinking and it's like there's no there's no boundaries on what you should and shouldn't do it's it's it's your creation it's what you want it to be and yeah you shouldn't be confined by like like there's it's it's what you want like saying that it's not real photography because you're over processing it or whatever.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter it really doesn't matter it's what yeah yeah it's just you do what you want to do.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of it's a it's it's an expression of yourself and and yeah if you kinda if you want you if you want to want to put it out there it is yeah you want it it's it's you want it to be honest and you ensure what you are so yeah just just do what you want isn't it just just just do yeah don't be don't be afraid to treat just try things I guess as well because 100% I've been many yeah I've been down so many many kind of yeah called attacks and and kind of realize that's not right and had to start again but that's the only way you learn really isn't it so yeah yeah speaking of that I just want to touch on what you were just saying there how much have you have you had any backlash on the fact that we do edit um a lot of our work and yes it is that you can't call it photography because you're doing a lot of processing have you got a lot of backlash from that um no I I think I've kind of not not personally really but I've kind of viewed it yeah maybe kind of just in comments and and what have you and maybe kind of threads of or of chat and that but um I think anybody that kind of thinks that way you've got like photography is such a wide like genre of things is there's not it's like the term photography is very broad so it's kind of I don't think you can you can kind of yeah can kind of criticize anyone for doing what they do with it.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in essentially your camera can be the the tool yeah that gets things done.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of maybe it's the first port of call you go out and shoot but that's not that's the start when you get it home into your computer and that and you and then the second part of the journey happen happens that you're you're editing and you're processing and and potentially yeah printing is the kind of the end result type thing you see it in print and that but um I yeah I think I've only seen it in like I say I've uh my overall experience of community photography or having my stuff out there has been yeah far a a lot just positive overall but again yeah I've seen but I think we like everybody's just doing their thing and I don't think in the in the bright in the broader scheme of things there's no right and wrong you you just people are expressing themselves to yeah how they do that.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just do it yeah just just however people want to I think so yeah I I only I only ask that because I have in the past been I've had a few people comment in my my um personal messages about my work saying you know it's not photography.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like yeah cool stiff whatever you know it it it's gone away now but yeah it was like a well probably pre-COVID I used to have a fair few people you know come on and say stuff and I I was like you're kidding right so it's funny I've I've doubled down now and I do it more than ever so it's just like yeah I mean it and I think for people to take the time to say that it's probably it's more a reflection on them than anything that you do.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's there's something troubling them far more than it is troubling you.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're just doing your thing so it's crazy.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean yeah if I if that's your opinion that's cool but yeah it's not gonna change.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that's it yeah yeah yeah it can you yeah I need to move on I've got some processing to do so yeah yeah yeah it's mad.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: How often how often do you print your workout whether it's for a client or for yourself just to see the end result.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have got a I've got an A3 printer um I I printed well I I have I haven't really printed much for anyone to be honest.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that it's I think I think like we s we spoke off lotted like print sales is quite a tough business to get in.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um and I think obviously current climate what have you it's kind of art is maybe a is more of a luxury than it than it was at one time.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So very little as far as selling my stuff but um for myself sometimes it's just yeah I I think it's good to see your good to see it printed because you can kind of pick up things that you might not see on a screen and kind of just looking at your work or like printed is I think it it does offer a a new kind of perspective to see see what you're doing.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah it can be a good thing definitely and it kind of in again it's just I've just yeah I just print for myself I've got I've got a few prints of my own just up in the stairs to my office and and it's just yeah pretty much for me to be honest it's just uh it just pretty much just print for myself but but that's cool.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah it's kind of just keep at it and keep trying to do it and uh yeah see where it goes I guess.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Have you have you ever printed an um an image yet and go what was I thinking there once you see it on paper.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah no I have yeah and it's kind of it's just so I think sometimes because we do stare at the screen so long I think you can get yeah a bit blunt to what you're doing and it is just like yeah even if it's not even printed and you just come back to the screen maybe the next day or whatever and it's just like gee gee ways man what were you thinking yeah and it's just and I think sometimes there are images that you've thought out in the field you've taken a shot of something and you thought yeah that's gonna work that's I've got I've got I've got something in mind for this and just no matter what you do to it it just doesn't get to where you come like no matter how hard you try and sometimes you've just got to go nah it just didn't work what what you thought was an image is just not there I think yeah what yeah what do you reckon the biggest um challenges when you do print is it got something to do you you could colour your exposure as your details like is there something that you find that you you may be at a little more than another I um I think kind of like I think you've always got to be careful with sharpening with printing that's kind of something to to almost dial back in some respects yeah um colours is always yeah obviously yeah just kind of as long as you're you've got a a calibrated monitor and um yeah so you're kind of printing pretty much what you see on the screen but um I think it yeah I think maybe for myself maybe colours are maybe a bit too muted and sometimes like the colours can kind of just like nothing stands out type thing if you want it kind of they just kind of fade into into one another so potentially just keeping an eye on that and just yeah yeah just keep colour is is yeah such an important thing and I do find yeah I most of my stuff is in colour and I do find it it's more challenging than mono I think black and white you can kind of you can kind of get away with some things that you can in colour yeah so um it's a challenging colour but I do well I like I to be fair I do love black and white there's some of short in black and white but for myself I've just kind of generally keep it to color and it it can be a bit more challenging.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but I think I kind of like that as well yeah yeah but the the good the thing about that's the the unfortunate thing about minimalist photography is because you've got the subject the colours there it's not hard to miss or you can't blend it like if you've got a big vista you you can blend the colours in so it's easier to hide a mistake if there is one but with minimalists you kind of have to be spot on with every image because you're gonna see it.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well that's the thing I think yeah because you are stripping it back to kind of it's its basics and I think our use of like we use masking and whatever we are kind of I think you have got to be on point with your masking and it's it can be boring it can be laborious process but you but spend the time on that mask to get it right and use whatever whatever way you want to but it can be a combination of tools to get how you want that mask but I think yeah to understand that you might you might start your processing and your first time at it will be purely just trying to get a mask that you're happy with and then you can take it from there.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's not yeah it's not exciting there's no buttons that instantly do it it is a process and uh you've got to stick with it but it's yeah it can be very rewarding when it when it comes off definitely but it can't yeah yeah no definitely agree I've spent hours doing a mask on one image I think it would have been maybe two or three settings of about two hours trying to get this one mask and that was just the base that was before I did any other editing that's it yeah I think you you I think what probably it's pretty pretty much the start of my processing as well is getting the mask.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yep yeah getting the mask and then you can move on and kind of do your other corrections or adjustments but I think once you have got that main mask or base mask then I think then you know you're on to a winner type thing.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know that you can you can take this image further.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah but yeah like say don't don't don't try and cut any corners just yeah try and get it that that mask will make or break your photo if you're doing minimalist like if with that sort of work um because if you if there's no point in actually going and doing all the editing and then doing a mask because at the end of the day what you're gonna do is those subjects are going to blend with your background in this sort of style so you need to do that mask before where you've got the full contrast the full colour complement and the full light complement before you change anything.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah absolutely it's it's yeah it's the first thing to get done really and then yeah yeah make it a good one or you will just yeah when you zoom in and it's just not right it'll just yeah you can't unsee it yeah that's it once you see it you can't unsee it absolutely yeah are you um when you do your mask are you using a pen tool or are you going down the route like um what we both learnt from um noel clegg and and we you use the brush I use a brush yeah I uh well I use like I think channels I try and look at my channels to see how much um separate is see what the biggest contrast in the channels and that's often a good place to start um usually usually it ends up being the blue channel.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Copying that channel.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Copying that channel.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, in even doing kind of levels adjustments on that mask, you can in just with the the dropper, get your blacks and your whites closer.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then anything beyond that.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think try to avoid it, but sometimes there's no other way around it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yeah, get the pen tool out and just kind of copy around it.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit of feather on your on your pen tool.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, like you say, it can be it can be a long process, but um, but yeah, use I think that's generally the way I start my mask.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: But again, there's there's lots of ways to get a mask, but um, yeah, you just gotta kind of find which one kind of suits you or kind of works for you.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: But we uh we yeah, we talked before calculations is another way to do it.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna look more into that.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do you know what's something I need to delve more into uh as well, because um, yeah, I think it's got potential in for um kind of quite complicated masks and that it can it it can are things there that can assist you to get you know or make it easier for you, yeah.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: My my go-to is definitely a a brush to start with, and then if it's a jetty or something like that with straight edges, I'll definitely use a pen for that.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's a rock, yeah, the brush, the brush tool were to you know, like Noel, Noel showed us platter bought that one because he's sped up a little bit of time, but still takes a while.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: But but yeah.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's good to have a couple in your back in your back pocket just so because every image is gonna be different.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, because yeah, what works for one won't won't guaranteed won't work for the other.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you just go, yeah, just try and try and have as many kind of yeah, yeah, different ways to do it, and uh one of them will help, or a mixture of two will get the job done, type thing.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially with your stuff because you've got a lot of um like your buildings which are sitting on rock, so you've got a combination of hard lines and then soft lines that's uh yeah, yeah, nightmare.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can be a challenge, but um yeah, yeah, no, it's definitely but you it's it's it's a means of getting of what you want to achieve, so yeah, it's just it's it's the process, yeah.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of the process, how long does it take you um before you sit down and attack an image after you've captured it?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know you've got a couple of like work commitments and family commitments, but yeah, is there a time period that you like to let it sit before you go to it?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think I like I'm not very prolific at all, just purely for the the in and I think by the nature of what we do, um it takes longer to output an image.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think when I first started photography, I just couldn't wait to get him in the into the computer and get him up and try and do something with him.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I am trying to to let them sit for a while.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's good good practice to let them just sit and then you can kind of come to him later.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: But um, like I said, not being like I'm very envious of anybody who's got like a a back catalogue of images to to process because I never do.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm usually just one image to the next to the next is kind of what I've got, and never really have a backlog, but um so I try and let them sit, but and I think it's probably yeah, good practice to let them sit.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: But maybe if I've got if I haven't got nothing else and I've I've got the time to edit, then I'll just yeah, could be straight on to it, could be a week, could be two weeks.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kinda it depends how much how much time and how much images I've got as well, to be fair.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then how long it actually takes to edit that one image in the first place.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think it it it kind of I think it is good practice to kind of give yourself a rest, kind of do a bit, yep, and then and then kind of come back to it.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, I think it yeah, it kind of depends how how difficult your masks are and and stuff like that, how long it dictates how long the image is.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I think sometimes it is good to take a break because you can go down that that late if you keep at it and you keep at it, and then it's just like if you do come back to it, you will be like, what the hell am I doing?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: You have kind of yeah, you've you've taken it too far, or or you're just not happy with it.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I think kind of maybe small doses, and it's probably just just good for your eyes and that, not to be goggling onto a screen for too long.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'd also like to add to that is that you don't do it, don't force yourself to do it because you'll you'll miss something.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's probably true.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, don't feel obliged.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: You you should do it, yeah.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's very true, actually.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you do force yourself, I think I can tell pretty quick if I'm not into it, that kind of and I think, yeah, it's just not happening.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, yeah, you should just leave it for another day.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't force definitely and that's why I haven't done any photo editing in a in a while.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think kind of I think what you're saying about things about social media, and I think that's probably a bad thing about social media that you kind of feel you feel compelled or kind of a bit kind of pressure.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, or to be posting regularly, so you're kinda people are always seeing your stuff, or you kind of you're always relevant, but um that shouldn't be how it goes.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of it it it does for some people or for a lot like it it comes and goes, or it's it's it's kind of sometime you're really at it, you're really into it, other times you need to take a step back, and I think maybe that's a a negative of social media that you're almost kind of expected to post and kind of and get out there, but but yeah, you really should you should be doing it for yourself rather than for anyone else.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: But but yeah, yeah.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree with you there.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's it's hard, it is a kind of you see you see other people and they're always posting or they're always in some amazing location that and it does kind of it's hard not to, I don't know, maybe even feel a bit of pressure that you're not doing as much as you could or as much as you want to.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: But um I think that's a I think it's a lesson I learned as well.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you can only do what you can do.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um just do your best, but it it's a hard lesson as well, because because yeah, we do feel the pressure.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: We do want to we do want to be out there, be recognized, whatever.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, just do what you can do.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you like you say, if you try and force it, it's not gonna it's not gonna turn out well.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, man.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: I can tell you now I'm I'm getting a bit of a case of that fear of missing out after going through your profile and looking at all the locations.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I guess I've been to like it's all it's all pretty much UK based.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you you could you've been you did you come over to the UK at all?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: I did, um, I think it was like 2013.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I was still at that was the point then when I first decided no black and whites, what exactly?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually shot everything over there as a black and white eye, so mistake.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I am finding now that with the processing and and stuff like that, that I'm I'm going back and editing.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I posted one recently of Bosco and Peer, and um and that was a re-edit of a black and white photo that um I captured.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm finding ways to to refix.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to come back and and go there, but yeah, but yeah, I think with all the people that I've met along on socials, I'd probably need to spend a few months there and I just don't have that time.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's the thing, yeah.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just and I think as with socials as well, you see you see parts of far-off lands and that that you would never see otherwise through through people's imagery, and you just there's just so much beautiful places and things to shoot.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just yeah, a bit overwhelming almost, but yeah.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's a couple of there's a couple of places I've got in my head, I still haven't seen photos of them.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um and it's on the drive, it's on the drive in to Pilpit Rock.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um so there's there's this scene that I I I vividly remember in my head.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, when we're going there, I'm like, I need to stop on the way out.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then we I'm like, we looked at the time, storm was coming in.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was pretty choppy on the on the ocean there.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh if we're gonna get out of here, let's go get something to eat before they shut up.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then uh yeah, next thing you know, we've driven past it, I've gone, oh, I'll come back another time.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's that's it, yeah.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh we've we've all done it, like thinking, yeah, we'll come back to it.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and then yeah, sometimes I think like like some of the old boats, all the wrecked wrecked old boats and that, you say, I'll come back to it, or or you're down that way again, and then they're no longer there.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: They've they've been yeah, storms, uh damaged them, flattened them, whatever, or or whatever.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, but what can you do?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do?
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you just pick up and move on and find the next location.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say just try and find something else, yeah, man.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Just move on.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of that, right?
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say some of the biggest challenges you've had in the in the time you've picked up the camera to now?
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in what respect challenge?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's in terms of like obviously the challenge of learning and trying to figure out how to get to where you are, but the the the constant trying to get better is one big challenge we've all got to go through.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: But also, yeah, how do you continually stay motivated?
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's the challenges you find in it?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I don't um well personally I um I have it I think it's degrees of motivation.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think they are kind of sometimes you kind of you you're full on into it, maybe, maybe even just being out and getting some decent shots is enough motivation to keep you going for a bit longer.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it kind of it can tail off.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I think for me at the minute, I'm struggling to be fair.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't been out been out a few times and not got anything that I'm too happy with.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, British summertime, like the sun rises are like yeah, silly o'clock in the morning, and yeah, so it's a struggle to get up, and it's kind of it's it's harder to motivate yourself.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I've just you know been out a few times and just kind of not had come back and just not be, it's just like not as prosperous as I thought it would be.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of but then all it'll take is just the next time I go out, if it kind of if I get something good in that, it's just I it I'll be back on it.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be thinking, yeah, this is yeah, cool, I've got something to to get my teeth into again.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I think it is, yeah, degrees of motivation.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think I was ever a I think it because it is just it's it's my pastime, it's my kind of little me time type thing that I I'll never I don't think or I say I don't think I'll ever lose the motivation completely that I don't want to go out, but I think it's maybe certain times is more more I'm more up for it sometimes than others type thing.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: But um and I think um I think being being quite critical of what I do is a motivator at the same time because it's like I can feel I I always feel I can I should do better or I can do better.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's always a kind of driving force.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Can be a bit kind of can be a bit uh detrimental as well.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: It can be a again a double-edged sword because yeah, sometimes you can be too negative about your work.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um but try and use it as a kind of force to move forward and just try and just yeah, just try and improve whether it's your photography or the editing, it's kind of yeah, it's just uh trying to move it forwards.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's yeah, and it but there has been times it's just been like this is you know what I mean, you just get peed hacked off, yeah, peed off, and you're just like you just feel you're not m getting anywhere, but it's it's like anything you have just got to keep at it, and and reach out to people as well, I think is a good thing.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: And just kind of generally I've found, like I've said, the the community's good and I've reached out to people on the on the most part, people are there to help you or offer advice, and um, and that can be enough just to go, oh shit, I didn't think about that type thing.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's enough just to move you, just to get past that hurdle, and then you're you're you're back on it again.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, definitely, yeah, use what use what's at your disposal, and if that is just talking to people and just kind of yeah, just being able to chat, even just chatting about it is enough just to just to get just to get you get you past what what's stopping you.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just enough to reframe your mind to to get out there and do what you want to do.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe just a different perspective from someone, like maybe you've been looking at it the wrong way.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that's just enough, yeah, man.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like not just to pump your tires up, but um, I know I do when I when you're when I see a photo from you, um like Trevor Cotton, or all those sort of guys, Noel Clegg, Julian, even um, when I see photos from those sort of guys, I just go, Oh, I need to get out, what am I doing?
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, that if that is the thing, it is kind of it it it is but that's a good thing.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a kind of driving force like I need to get out, then it's yeah, you you're getting the right response from seeing seeing some good work, and it's just yeah, making you wanting to yeah, get out, do and just do your thing.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and and that's and that's the positive about um social media is that if you actually follow the people you want to follow instead of following it just for the sake of it, then you're not gonna have that drive.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's what I like about having I actually culled mine all the way down to go, well, I'm not gonna follow who I want to see.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not that's not to say that anyone else's work is terrible or it's not good, it's just I want to see what I want to see.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's it.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: You need that inspiration.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're in you're into what you're into, and um, yeah, yeah.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it'd be pointless like a wildlife photographer following someone like me or or you, they probably want to see more wildlife shots, so it's the same, same for us, yeah.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just to see, and yeah, some of these guys that in it's just yeah, just it is a buzz to see it does make you want to get out and shoot when you see a shot that you want to have taken, type thing, it is kind of yeah, and there's plenty of them, yeah.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: You see them all the time, definitely.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you had someone come up to you today and asked they they want to get into the fine art sort of world and and and do what you do and what I do, and and a few other of obviously who we've spoken about, what would be the first tip, the biggest tip that you would give them to be on their way to set them in the right track?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't I think it I think it starts with the camera, it starts with the filters.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think just getting just understanding camera and long exposure, and I think I think that's where it should start.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um I think some people maybe that have kind of approached me, some of them think that there's just a slider on Photoshop or Lightroom that instantly turns it minimal, you know what I mean?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's and I I think I think maybe just explaining, yeah, most of it's boring.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like getting a map.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's no, it's not, it's not, it's kind of yeah, it's not exciting, it's just kind of it's perseverance.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the thing.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: If they kind of understand if you pass it, I think if you if you really want it, then you're willing to put up with that cr that boring bit.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the right thing.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think kind of yeah.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, yeah, that I think there's it maybe there is, but I don't know about it.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the I it doesn't seem like there's no quick fix to do what we do.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: There is not, no.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think, yeah.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think if um yeah, if someone really wants it, I think it's maybe kind of going, yeah, it's uh there's a bit of crap to get you it's it's not all instant output.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, you have got to put a fair bit in before you get someone out.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe yeah, enjoy your long exposures, and then if you want to take it further and kind of move into an another realm, I think you do like there's no way around it, you've got to have a decent understanding of Photoshop, yep, and yeah, and kind of it's yeah, it's I don't think there's any there's probably other programs out there, but yeah, Photoshop for me and and for yourself.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you do need to understand these things before you can progress, really.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, and that for for some people is just kind of, yeah, they just it's not for everybody, absolutely, you know what I mean?
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely not for everybody.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um the the the image actually comes alive in the final hour.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't it doesn't it doesn't come straight off the bat, it's not a Polaroid.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that I think that's it.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: And like your your image that you bring home isn't always the most pretty or kind of the nicest image, but you kind of you make it, you have to it it is making an image, you're not you're not taking you're not taking a photo.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's the best way.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the best way.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: We are making a photograph, we're not, we're not just taking one, we're we're we're making it, we're sculpturing it, and we're making it into what it is, and and that's the joy of fine art, is that we have that creative freedom to to do that.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's it, mate.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's and it's kind of and it comes from you, it's your interpretation, it's how you kind of it's it's how you want to see it, or how you had it in your mind's eye, and it's not always what you see in front of you when you're taking the image, it's it's something something other than that, and that's yeah, and it's it's whatever you you can get it to be, really.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well said, mate.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well said.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where can people find your work?
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, either your socials or your website, just so we can push more people to your pages.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh yeah, it'd be good.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um Instagram at 23 Martian.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um Martian was just it the people about it, it's just uh it was a spell and mistake a long time ago in a kind of in a in school.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it became instead of Martin, it was a Martian, so I've stuck with it.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then my website.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't even know what is it at 23martian.co.uk.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, is that it?
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I'm actually, yeah, I just opened it up then.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it is 23.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is 23.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: But those we'll put those links in the buy in the show notes for you, might as well.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Mike.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's that's pretty much where I'm where I'm at.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've kind of I need to update my website, kind of just keeping that kind of in order.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's just finding the time, right?
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's never ending.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but um, yeah, and you just keep that updated, but yeah, just keep it simple.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: Instagram and website, that that'll do me.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, guys.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I I strongly urge you to go across um to your socials.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a big portfolio there on um social on sorry, Instagram there.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_00: His website is nice and clean, just like his work.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: So believe me, you will not be disappointed.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, man.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's appreciated.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um I really appreciate you joining me on the show today, mate.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I hope you all got something out of this and and you learn a little bit more about Martin today.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate you having me on.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's nice that um yeah, reaching as far afield as Australia, and that's that's pretty cool.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, really nice, really nice to chat to you.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much, mate.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I hope you're all the best in in your next endeavours.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and if I ever head over there, I'll be definitely giving you a call.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, give us a shout, man, for sure.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be good.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, mate, and um, I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_00: See you later, guys.