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Unlearning the Rules of Religion · The Brave Becoming

• Tiana: Hi everyone, welcome back to The Brave Becoming, we focus on grace for the process and courage for the journey. I am one of your hosts, Tiana, and I am here with my other host, Shaniqua. Shaniqua: Hello everyone. Tiana: And we have a very special guest that we are excited to meet and talk to for our topic today. So today's topic is unlearning the rules of religion. India Johnson: you Tiana: And I'm so excited to talk about this. So, our Shaniqua: Same. Tiana: guest for today, India Johnson: Thanks. Tiana: her name is India Johnson. And let me tell you a little bit India Johnson: Thanks. Tiana: about her. known as Indy500. She's a Christian content creator who started creating videos online to promote Bible reading. After having a dream about becoming an evangelist, she unintentionally joined a group at her church that equipped evangelists. As she grew in her biblical knowledge, she developed India Johnson: Thank Tiana: a passion for witnessing about the finished work of the cross. That knowledge helped her break free from legalism and superstitions, and she hopes to help others realize their freedom in Christ. And Dia, thank you for joining us on The Brave Becoming. India Johnson: Thank you for having me. Hi guys. Shaniqua: India, India. I love that. So I I want to I want to ask the question of like, well, how did you unintentionally? But that's gonna get us off topic because we always have a first question. So I'm gonna start with the first question and then we can move from there. So this is our signature question and we ask all of the guests because I think it's really important for people to be able to express this and understand this when it comes to the journey. So when did you first know God? For yourself, was real for yourself, not your mama, your grandparents, anyone else. When did you first know God was real for yourself? India Johnson: I would say there are two separate occasions when I understood that there was a guy. I Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: was probably around eight years old. was just in the backseat of my parents then and I was looking up at the sky and my gears just started turning like I know that car manufacturers made the vehicle that we're in. I know my parents, they came together and they made me like, but who made the sky? Like the sky is blue and it's vast and I can't see the end of it. Then you have these giant clouds that's floating in the air. Sometimes I get heavy water and I was just thinking like, there must be a God. And we were already in church, but I was just thinking like, it has to be true about a creator because I know man did not create this. So if man didn't create this, how did this come about? And then I say it another time when I was 27, I stopped playing around. I realized that there was a God when when he saved my life. So when I was about 27, I tried to permanently delete my account. I was not in the faith. I was doing my own thing. And I had come to a point in my life where I was like, you know what, I don't want to do this anymore. And I said, I said out of my mouth as I was attempting to, you know, delete my account that I'm ready to go to hell. don't know where that came from because I wasn't even subscribed to that police system. But Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: I was saying it as I was, you know, get prepared to go. I'm ready to go to hell. But God saved me. I ended up surviving that. And I was being transported from the hospital to the psych ward. And one of the paramedics who was transferring me, she told me, she looked me dead in my face and she was like, why are you crying? You know, you're a child of the king. And I was just looking at this lady like, what are you talking about? Like crazy lady, what do you need to talk about? And she said it again, she was like, you're a child of the king. And then at that moment, I'm like, there is a God, like if he intentionally saved me and I know that I'm his child, I know that this woman is telling the truth. So those are the two times that I would say like, okay, yeah, God is real. Shaniqua: All right, but before we move on, and and and I do have to ask a question. Are you okay if we if we use this very specific language with your account? Are you okay with that? India Johnson: We can. Shaniqua: Okay. And the reason I asked that question is because and I wanna to clarify that is and number one, I think that's a phenomenal story and experience. That you've given us because it's very real, it's very raw, and it was very transparent. And so with it being transparent, that's why I would love to be able to name that language with the a a suicide attempt. And India Johnson: Yes. Shaniqua: and the reason I name that language is because I and Tiana last week we talked about trauma and faith. And I don't think that there should be any shame in a journey with wellness and healing and mental health. And being able to name something, I think also allows us to reclaim power, but then also allows things to no longer have power over us. And being India Johnson: I love that. Shaniqua: able to do that will also open the doorway to someone else's freedom. So the fact that that was your experience and for you knowing God and that someone spoke to you that you are a child of the king and the daughter of the king, I really would like to highlight that part of your journey and and and use that language because I want someone else to experience not having shame and reclaiming their power and reclaiming whatever emotion or that they may feel with that. So thank you for allowing me to say that. Okay. You're welcome. India Johnson: Yeah, I love that. Tiana: Well, that's one of the things I love about your content, actually. your vulnerability. And you you just say things in a way that I know that people listening are being freed from listening to you. Like the way that you share your story, unfiltered, but but in your own, in your own way. Like I love the little comedic feel that you do, you know, with certain things with like Bible scriptures and stuff. And so I just think that your story is going to save a lot of people. That's what I think. Yeah. Shaniqua: Yeah. Yeah. India Johnson: film. Tiana: And so I know that you have talked about being a part of new age practices. And India Johnson: Okay. Tiana: that is something that I can, you know, also relate to because when I first started my journey of trying to find God, that's the path that I went down. And so I just want to know what drew you to Jesus? India Johnson: What drew me to Jesus? I want to say when I was deep in some of my new age practices, you know that that stuff is real. Like it's not all made up. It's not craziness. There is another spiritual side. So while I was involved in that, I was inviting a lot of darkness into my life. And there was a period of time where I had demons in my apartment and the new age practice staff would be you know, stage your home, like clean your home in these different rituals. And they will be a temporary fix. It'll be a temporary remedy, but the entities will always return. But as I said earlier, I grew up in the church. at the back of my mind, I always knew that demons fear Jesus, but I rejected Jesus. I already denounced Christianity. So I was going to take the stage approach. And just completely stopped working. So one time I just decided like, and I couldn't hide it anymore because my nephew was spending the night over my apartment and he would say things about it. I'm like, dang, I can't even ignore it because the baby's uncomfortable here. So I decided like, if I call on Jesus, what would happen? And I called on Jesus and I felt the dark presence leave. And I'm like, I cannot deny. I can't deny that experience. can't deny that when I call on Him, although I reject Him, although I say that He's not God, He's helping me. So that's when I came to realize like, okay, maybe I have something wrong in this New Age practice. I'm missing something. Maybe I have to incorporate Jesus in my New Age practice. And it started off with just adding Him to my New Age practice. Tiana: Mm. That's interesting. Cause mine was kind of the same way. Like, I'm gonna read some Bible scriptures though, but I still got my sage on the side of me. India Johnson: Yeah, like mixture. Tiana: It was a definite mixture. Now, for me, when I was practicing new age, I was chasing peace. Were you chasing anything when you were practicing new age? India Johnson: I want to say I was chasing power, not necessarily. I thought that peace would come with power, but my main focus was the power because I always felt powerless in my life. I had a very traumatic upbringing. I dealt with lot of bullying growing up and I just was always belittle and make to feel small or insignificant or incompetent. And so when I started doing these practices, I felt I'm like, I know something that most people don't know. I have spiritual knowledge that most people don't have. I have these powers that other people are not utilizing. And I look down, especially on Christians. wasn't, nobody else was occupying my mind like Christians were, but I'm like, I have more power than Christians. I have more knowledge than Christians. And that did something for my ego. So that's what I was chasing, not necessarily peace, because when I was in that, I was chaotic. My life was chaotic. So I can't wait to say that I was chasing peace because I had no peace in my life and I didn't mind the chaos in my life and I didn't mind making other people's lives chaotic. I just wanted that power. Tiana: Hmm. Hmm. Shaniqua: question. I have two questions actually. So sorry, deviating a little bit. So how did you get started going to practice new age religions or have an interest in new age spirituality? India Johnson: I got started through a family member. I would not like to name or specify, Shaniqua: A lot of people. Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: but one day I was still claiming Christianity, but I was doing whatever I wanted to do because I felt like I can do what I want and then just repent after I do it. What I thought repentance was was saying that I was sorry after. So if I smoked the blood, I would just repent after. Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: I'll spend some time with this family member. They told me, you know, Jesus is not God, right? Like, you know, the Bible never said that Jesus was God. And I never read the Bible. So I believe this person, they said they read the Bible. So I'm like, okay, so since Jesus is not God, then like, this hell even a thing? Like, do I have to live in constant fear? And so I'm sorry, what was your question again? I'm getting sidetracked. Shaniqua: No, that you're you're answer you're answering my question, but you're actually about to enter into what my my my my next question was was then, especially since you hadn't read the Bible and you were trusting someone else to tell you what the Bible was, what was your experience like the first time you read the Bible and and was starting to gain your own understanding? Can you talk to us about that? India Johnson: Yes, okay. So the first time I read the Bible was the day after I was released from the psych ward when Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: I told the story about how I almost committed suicide. They released me, but while I was in the psych ward, I didn't have a phone. didn't have like, you know, didn't have no connections to the outside world. All I had was that lady telling me like, why are you crying? You're a child of the king. And that, and I had to listen to my own thoughts. because I had to leave my room when they instructed me to leave my room. had to eat when they instructed me to eat. So in my idleness, I would think like, why does she say that? And every day that I was in a psych ward, my heart was like softening to God each day. And then my last day in a psych ward out was like, I'm going to try this God thing out. Like I'm going to try this Christianity thing out because I felt something when she said that to me. So my idea of practicing Christianity is you have to know the Bible. I had never read the Bible. So I'm like, when I get out, I'm going to read the Bible. So my first day out, I had a Bible. I opened it and I started in Genesis and I was sitting on my couch. I was reading the book of Genesis. And as I was reading it, was like the words were coming off the paper and I could like visualize what was happening. And it felt like, it felt supernatural. It felt like I was dreaming and I'm not on that anymore. I'm not even psyched man, it's Shaniqua: Yeah. India Johnson: no more so I'm like this is a natural experience that's happening and I'm on the couch reading the Bible. I can't put it down and I fall asleep with the Bible on me because I was reading it and then the dream that I had was so real. I had a dream of this white horse and at the the hill of the horse it was a snake and the snake did the horse's hill and the horse like made or whatever. It was really a really I don't know like You know those dreams that just feel so real? Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: It was like that. And then I was waking up out of my sleep because the dream, I'm not going to say that it spooked me, but it did startle me of how real it seemed. And as I was waking up out of my sleep, I heard voices leave my ear. And they said, it was a whisper. was like, we are nigh. Like, we are nigh, but in a whisper. Voices leaving from my ear. And I'm not sleeping anymore. I'm arising out here. We are nigh out of my ear and the Bible is still on my chest and I'm like, what is this? Like, what is this book? Like, what does this have me experience? Yes. Tiana: Yeah. Shaniqua: What is the power in this book? India Johnson: And ever since then, I couldn't set it down. Like, I needed to know, like, what is this book? What is this talking about? Tiana: Mm, that's so interesting. So, okay, we go from new age, you have your experience where you learned that you are the child of God. Now you open up your Bible. But now where did the legalism come from? India Johnson: So the legalism came from, this is so funny because I always instruct like new believers not to just start in the Old Testament, maybe a chapter in the Old Testament and a chapter in the New Testament so you can understand grace. But I told myself that I'm going to read the Bible sequentially, like in sequential order. Like I'm going to get through this Bible and really understand what God wants me to understand. And then I have the traditions from when I grew up in church. I grew up in two different churches. I grew up in like a fire and brimstone church. And I grew up in a church where I would call it like hyper charismatic. In both of those churches, is very, hell is preached often. Demons are preached often in both those type of churches. And so I had the foreknowledge of like my upbringing in those churches. And then I was reading that into the Bible. So I'm like, So the thing is that God is telling Israel, that's what he's also telling me, to avoid hell, because I the point of Christianity was to avoid hell. So that's where the legalism Tiana: Ooh. India Johnson: came in. Shaniqua: Can I can I pause there for a quick second? because I I wanna I want to expound on that legalism part because people may not understand it. Legalism is is the belief in that we have to adhere to these rules, that we can earn ourselves into heaven, that we can do these works by our own capabilities, by our own hands, to follow a specific script. And so a lot of people do struggle with legalism when it comes to our belief system and when it comes to Christianity. So I just wanted to kind of just give that footnote for people. So what were some of the religious rules that you found yourself practicing or even believing yourself? India Johnson: So the first thing that I believed in our practice was keeping the Sabbath on Saturday. I used to work on Saturday and I went to my manager and I'm like, have to change my schedule. I can't work on Saturday Shaniqua: What? India Johnson: anymore. So I switched to a whole different shift because of that. And I'm like, why aren't these Christians resting on it starting on Saturday? Every time when I sin, which is so ridiculous to me because the way that we think about sin and legalism is like the big stuff. Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. The small. India Johnson: We don't think like our thoughts miss the mark. The way that we feel about certain people miss the mark. I was just looking at the big things. And when I committed the big sins, I would deprive myself of food. I would call it fasting. But I really, wasn't even fasting. I was just punishing myself for sinning because I didn't want to disappoint God. Shaniqua: Want you to talk, I want you to talk more about that right there. Why did you feel or where did that come from that you felt you had to punish yourself for God? India Johnson: Because I didn't understand grace yet. I felt like, okay, God saved me. He came and got me out of my sin. And I'm still sinning against him. And I know how he feels about sin because I'm reading the Old Testament. So I know Shaniqua: Old Testament. Mm-hmm. India Johnson: the wrath of God. I know how he feels about sin and I keep sinning against him. So I have to show him how genuine and sincere I am. I have to show him how much I love him by punishing myself. So he gets the picture. Like am grateful for the sacrifice. I am grateful that you saved me. That was my mindset. I felt like I owed him something. Like you saved me. I didn't even know what being saved meant. just Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: thought it meant like, I don't know what I thought it was. Cause it definitely wasn't justification. It definitely wasn't safe from the penalty of sin. Cause I felt like the penalty was still owed to me. Like I was still in debt to God. yeah, that depriving myself of having any fun. Like things that I enjoyed, I felt like if I had too much pleasure, I had too much joy, that I was distracted from God. I wasn't worshiping him in spirit and truth because Shaniqua: Yeah. India Johnson: I'm having too much fun. I'm laughing too much. I thought that end comfort joke was funny and I laughed and now I can't eat for three days. Tiana: Mm. Shaniqua: You know, one what you have said is one of the reasons why T and I decided to do this broadcast and why it's Grace for the Journey and the Brave Becoming. is because, you know, our first our first or second o episode was holy and human. Like what is that line? What does that look like? And so many people have that spirit of condemnation. within themselves and feel like they are punishing themselves and that they're condemning themselves when Christ has already paid it all. Now that doesn't mean that we are not supposed to model Christ and be disciples and work I don't want to say works because but walk towards the full spirituality and humanity of who we are as children of the king. But just that part, I I I thank you so much for saying that, especially that punish you because I think that that Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: just that says a lot. That says a lot. So thank you for that. Tiana: Yeah, I think the legalistic spirit confuses intimacy with punishment. Like we Shaniqua: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Tiana: were saved for intimacy, not not for God to punish us or or we punish ourselves because we keep missing the mark. Shaniqua: Mm, mm, mm. And you know India Johnson: And it's really a denial of what Christ did on the cross. we feel like we still have to pay for our sins. Like people think that denying Christ is just saying like Christ didn't exist or no, denying Christ is also denying what he accomplished. Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: And we might not be intentionally denying what he accomplished, but that is a lack of knowledge. Like if you don't know that he was defeated, sin, Satan and death, you're going to stay trying to earn his approval, which we can't do. But we were given it freely. It was a free gift. Shaniqua: Yeah, uh-huh. I totally agree. You know, we're going totally off script, so forgive me, or at least with our tag India Johnson: It's okay. Shaniqua: team questions. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: One of the things that I always cause you mentioned the Old Testament, and so many people become hyper fixated on the old testament, they they do forget the sacrifice and the grace that is found in the new testament, and they have a a a a a issue. Reconciling the God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament. And one of the things that helped me on my journey when I was younger, and even explaining it to someone, is that I always tell people that I look at the Bible or I look at God on the scope of as a parent. Like if you really look at it as a parent, as a parent with to a child through humanity, you have to be very hands-on. You have to be very this, this rigid boundary scripts, things that you have to do. But as a child matures and as the child gets older, the parent then starts to take steps slightly back. And the parent wants the child to do the best and to do these things. But the parent also recognizes that this child has autonomy. and and it has the ability to grow and to do these things and to become, but always like the prodigal son, the parent always wants the child to come back to the roots to what they've known. And so I I wish that more people would kind of understand that as they're walking out their knowledge of who God is within their journey and not get so bogged down in the punishment part of it. India Johnson: Yeah. Shaniqua: anyway, so that's that's it. T I turn it over to you. India Johnson: That was a great analogy. Tiana: No, yeah, I was gonna say that's perfect because that's why, you know, Jesus made an emphasis to say, Father, I'm his son, that's my father. Because I really think one of the greatest titles that God loves to have is being a father, you know, not just this dictator or this just this scary big old man. Like, no, he's our father and he loves us. That's why he created us. And Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. Yeah. India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: so, with you walking in legalism, did you ever feel that God's love or approval depended on your performance? India Johnson: Absolutely, absolutely. Like I felt like that depended on my performance and my goal was to be the one who helped God the most. Cause I felt like, you know, he did the most for me. Like I have this crazy testimony. So he pulled me out of darkness. I have to show him, I have to display my love for him. And I felt like if I wasn't doing that, if I wasn't performing, then I was disappointing him somehow. I wasn't living up to the person who I was supposed to be. I had no idea what being born again was. I knew the same, but I thought that being born again was what you change yourself into for God. So you had the old man, and then if you love God enough, if you perform well enough, you will be born again into a new person that that person was unrecognizable. when I tell my testimony to people, they can think like, that was you, you were doing that? That's what I thought born again meant, which is so crazy, which is so ridiculous now that I know what it means now. But I feel like if I wasn't crying, going to church, if I wasn't shouting, hollering, like I tried to learn how to shout, because I thought that's what worship was like, and I don't have any rhythm. So I would probably Shaniqua: Yeah. India Johnson: stand at my home like this. Shaniqua: But can you hold a note? India Johnson: Not that either, but I practice at home to how I was going to pray and turn. It was so ridiculous. But on Saturday I would turn on some music and I would try to get the steps down. And I was going to the Baptist church. So when it was time to dance and scream and shout, I was doing it well. And God was paying attention to me. Shaniqua: You know what you just said, and I don't know if you know you said it, but you may know that you said it. But you just said what you just described. You said what born again was what I had to turn myself into. And everything that you just described, this, hey, I have to sing, I have to dance, I have to do this. This is you performing, you doing these things because you had to turn yourself into it. And that's That's the antithesis of what born again and what India Johnson: you Shaniqua: a walking relationship with Christ is because it's not what we turn ourselves into, it's what he does in us and the spirit does in us that is then therefore manifested. So Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: that is that you saying that I was like, huh? But I'm sure so many people think that. I yeah, yeah. What you'd have to turn Tiana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Shaniqua: yourself into. Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: No. Tiana: Yeah. A lot Shaniqua: Yeah. Tiana: of people in the church think that I had a experience where the church leaders tried to teach us how to speak in tongues. I said, I said, baby, it it didn't. It didn't. Shaniqua: G girl. Let me know how that worked. How did that go to you? How did that go? What words you learned? India Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Tiana: It didn't go. Yeah. India Johnson: I had that same experience. I'm glad you shared that because I did. I faked speaking in tongues. I don't speak in tongues now, but in the beginning of my walk I did. I faked it. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: Well well ladies now I have questions for both of y'all. Let's explore these for a little bit. So why do number one, why do you feel that the the the your church leadership was teaching you to speak in tongues? And then in hindsight, what made you be like, this is so erroneous, like this ain't even right. Tiana: Well well well let me say I was not a part of that church. Let Shaniqua: Okay. India Johnson: Bye! Tiana: me say that. But you know, it was just awkward. It just felt awkward to my spirit. And I was just like, this doesn't feel right. I just feel like I'm talking in gibberish. Like I know that it's a heavenly language and it it sounds like you know, like we can't understand it, or some people can, some interpreters can't. Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. Tiana: But I was just like, This I don't think this is what what a heavenly language sounds like. Shaniqua: Okay. India Johnson: Yeah. Shaniqua: And what about you, India? India Johnson: I asked the question when I was small, if a person doesn't speak in tongues, can they go to heaven? And I had Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: a family member tell me, no, they can't go to heaven if they can't speak in tongues. And so I thought that I could speak tongues in order to, I didn't, I wouldn't intentionally kind of manipulate God or like trick God, but I'm like, maybe if I speak in these tongues, and it's crazy how a lot of people say like, If you don't speak in tongues, you don't have the Holy Spirit. And then also try to teach you how to speak in tongues. So which one is it? Is it the Holy Spirit that teaches you how to speak in tongues? Or if I'm just repeating the same thing that you're telling me to repeat, and now I have the Holy Spirit because those two things, they contradict. Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: But I just wanted to make the qualification again to heaven. That's what it was. And if somebody told me, of course, I didn't read that part of the Bible yet. I wasn't there. But if somebody told me that if you don't do this, you're gonna make it to heaven, I will believe them, especially if they had the fruit. Like if I looked at them and they looked saved or they sounded saved, knew Christianese or they dressed modestly, they know what they're talking about. So that's what it was for me. Shaniqua: So what it what it when did it I guess change or shift for you when when you when did you know for yourself and learn better and be like, this is not it? India Johnson: I it was what like Tiana said, like I was doing it one day and in my heart I'm like, I'm lying. This is a lie. I'm making this stuff up. Cause I'm thinking like, I'm speaking as gibberish and I don't want to keep repeating the same gibberish over and over again. So I'm thinking of a different gibberish to say next after I'm done repeating this one. So I'm like, this is a lie. Like I'm coming up with this stuff on the spot. Tiana: Mhm. And I will say now I do speak in tongues. And I will say that experience is nothing that you can make up. Like it's not it's not just something that you can just you know, some people just come out speaking in tongues like, nah, that's an experience. And it Shaniqua: Yeah. Tiana: feels like the India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: Holy Spirit is like literally taking over your tongue. So Shaniqua: Yeah. India Johnson: Yeah. Shaniqua: I've only done one time, one time. And I I was like, wait a minute, what is this? Tiana: Ha ha. India Johnson: What was going on during that one time? Shaniqua: was actually in a in a in a in a prayer conference retreat whatever you want to call it it was a large space other people were doing it but that was literally the only time that I've ever had that come come up come out of me and it and it shocked me because I I've never had it before and I've never experienced it since then. but I recognized that in the moment even though it shocked me I was I was okay with what it was. I didn't make a big deal of it for me. I just took note of it like, okay. This is what that experience is. And I've never experienced it since then. I've never, I've never, and I've never asked for it. I've never been like, God, give me this. So I I've never asked for it. And so that that's what it was for me. So I whenever I hear people speak about the gift of tongues and interpretation and when people are speaking, it is something that I I within myself sometimes be like, wait a minute, what are you because I've I've also been taught that if the gift of tongues, if if someone is speaking in tongues, that there's also an interpreter. And so Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: you you rarely hear the interpreter accompanying the tongues. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: so it's that's that's just kind of where what that was for me. so we talked about legalism and how you kind of Started out with that. What do you think that that in the beginning cost you? Because you stopped doing a lot of things, you became isolite isolated, you you stopped doing things which you consider worldly things. How did that affect you and your relationship with other people? But also how do you think that affected you in your development with God? India Johnson: I think that it kind of stunted for that time my growth with God like my own understanding with God because I was so stuck on this idea of him rather than getting to know him through his word like genuinely get to know him like through Christ but with people I feel like it messed up my witness because I was a nasty Christian like I was judgmental I was like anti-syn center Shaniqua: Sorry. Girl, say that again. You know how many nasty Christians they are? My gosh, today. The fact that you recognize that. India Johnson: I was nasty. Yeah, I was It was it was disgusting it was like I was a better person as a sinner than I was as a Christian because how my heart was hearted like When I was at work, I told you guys I switched shifts So I had a new group of co-workers and I was like the strict Christian there's other Christians in my department, but I didn't see them as Christians. I'm like anybody who doesn't live like me, they're not a Christian. If you cuss, you're not a Christian. If you talk about having beer on the weekend, you're not a Christian. So I'm the only Christian in this whole department. And I was nasty. I remember this one boy, he gave me a bag of candy for Halloween. And it was like a thank you gift because I was the first person to ever speak to him when he joined the department. So he came over and he gave me the speech like, I'm so happy that you Introduce yourself to me when I first came over here and that was so nice of you and I smiled in his face and I'm like, thank you. And as soon as he turned around, I threw it in the trash. I'm like, this demonic, dagged candy, like I'm not about to this Halloween demon candy, like, and get these spirits on me. Like, cause I'm like, I don't want to be overcome by demonic spirits. So I'm gonna throw this candy away. And I'm thinking like, and the God is bisexual too. I'm not going to accept a gift from him. He's living in sin. And it's like, just, my mindset was so corrupted. Everything was corrupt. Tiana: Mm. So you were doing that to people to everybody really. So to people who India Johnson: Yep. Tiana: weren't Christians and also Christians. India Johnson: Yes. Tiana: Did did you have any grief, like any grief that you had to process like after you realized like I shouldn't have been treating people that way? India Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. Of course I felt disgusted. I had to come out of the shame with how I used to act. I had to apologize to people. I had to apologize to my best friend. My best friend, she got the worst. I was analyzing everything she was doing. I was watching her, just everything that she was doing, everything that she said. And I would criticize her and all my other groups of friends. would just criticize them. You think you should be doing that? Aren't you? Aren't you a Christian? You don't want to hear, depart from me. never knew you like using verses to condemn people. and then when I discovered grace and then I realized like, like it's unmerited, like I didn't earn mine. I didn't earn mine. So I can't look down my nose on them. I got to realize that I just felt so terrible about the heavy burdens that I was laying on those people. couldn't even carry those burdens. I was coming up with rules for other people. I was coming up with rules for myself. It was terrible. It was miserable. Tiana: Mm, you highlighted something, reconciliation. That's so important. India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: Yeah. Shaniqua: It is. Yeah. Very, very, very important. So you have spoken about even in in this conversation, demonic occurrences in your life. And and some of the things we've we've we've said or or or or talked about or even what we've kind of you know, the background research, Sometimes the demonic occurrences were the only sign that your life was spiritual. You mentioned before that you were okay with chaos and causing chaos in other people's lives. rather than from a spiritual standpoint, having peace, love, and joy being the manifestation within your life. What changed with how you measured? your spiritual life. Like even and it's kind of tag team with what you just said. Like you you said that there was when I was a nasty Christian, but then I realized this. So what what at what point or what was the mechanism of change where you realized that hey there's a different path or not a different path, but there's a different way and a different fruit of of of being a disciple of Christ. For me, I didn't make that distinction between a follower and the disciple, because the disciple is gonna look like the master. But what made India Johnson: Yeah. Shaniqua: you realize that or what was your that mechanism that switched in your head? India Johnson: I would say when I realized I started going to a new church and it's a discipleship church and they were teaching out in the New Testament and they were talking about our justification and reconciliation with God and I just observed how they would treat people and I was there observed like how my pastor would not get offended. He didn't get offended by me. I came into the church as a legalist and I was judging him off the rich. But he was not offended by anything that I was saying. He just seemed like he was just floating through life. He got along with everybody. I would see different people in my congregation. They would pray for people. And they just had peace. And I'm like, I have demonic experiences, and they have peace. I don't think that that's how it's supposed to be. I don't think that my demonic experiences is testify about how good God is, because I'm oppressed. I think that their lives are testified about how good God is because they love people. And I know that God is love, but I'm secluded. Like, I don't want to hate out anybody because I'm scared that their demons are going to hop on me. But that's fear. And I know that perfect love casts out fear. I fear hell. They don't even talk about hell. Like, just take things more lightly. Everything is more. like with them and I like I'm even in more bondage than I was when I was in the world. So I'm like, this can't be the real thing. This can't be it. Tiana: So you describe doing good works out of obligation and comparing yourself to everyone else. So when did you first notice that and what helped you break that cycle? India Johnson: I first noticed that when I joined a church and I was paying attention to everybody else and attention to myself and I was keeping tabs. I was keeping a score of what I was doing, how I was giving to the homeless, what I was doing. And I felt like nobody else had the fear that I had. These people don't fear God. I fear God. But it wasn't the fear of God, it was the fear of hell. They didn't fear hell the way that I fear hell. And I noticed that everybody was like, they just had a different attitude about them. And I wanted that. And one time I was reading the Bible and I was reading about the tax collector and the Pharisee. And when I was reading it, I said, so God, I'm like, I'm the tax collector, ain't I? And he was like, no, you're the Pharisee. Tiana: Mm. India Johnson: And I was like, How? Why the Pharisee? And then I read what the Pharisee was saying, and he was saying, like, I'm glad I'm not like this. I'm glad I don't do this like this sinner. I was saying stuff like that in my heart and out loud. So it was like, to see myself in the Bible, and the Bible was written thousands of years ago, to see that we shared the same spirit, it was eye-opening. Like, this is not the heart posture that God. wants me to have because he's telling me this, he's showing me this in his word that he doesn't want me to have this hard posture. And then it then after I realized I had the hard posture of the Pharisee, then I was able to ask God like, change my heart, like help me to be more like the test like this. Shaniqua: I think that's interesting because you you you make a really good point and it made me wonder because the issues with the Pharisees is that they were so caught up in legalism that they couldn't see God before them in Christ. And so we have so many people that are struggling with legalism right now that are in Christianity, but if Jesus was to come back today and if it didn't fit the mold. in the rules that they expected, then they too would repeat what the Pharisees did then. that's that's that's a unfortunately that's the the the crux of the problem with legalism because we India Johnson: Yeah. Shaniqua: we we try to fit God into a box. so let's talk a little bit about your dreams your dreamer You're a dreamer. India Johnson: Yeah. Shaniqua: So let's talk about your dreams. in the beginning, you said that you had a dream, or in your bio, it says that you had a dream of becoming an evangelist and that you unintentionally ended up at your church's evangelism group. So tell us how did that training, being a part of that group, change how you read scripture in your own story? How did it influence you? India Johnson: Okay, yes. So that group actually taught me about the gospel because Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: that's the whole point of the Bible. I was well read in the Bible. I could quote scripture. I was just like the Pharisees. I could quote scripture off the top of my head, but I didn't pay much attention to the gospel. And when I joined that group, also the way that I unintentionally joined that group is because it was called Belong and I had isolated myself so much with my religiosity. that I didn't belong anywhere. So when they started a group called Go Long, I'm like, this is a friendship group. I'm going find friends at this group. And then when I joined, they're like, we're going to teach you guys how to evangelize on the street. And I'm like, what? But I already signed up for it. Yeah. Shaniqua: Like this name is misleading. India Johnson: So I stuck around. I stuck around because I had already committed to it. And they talked about the gospel so much. Like, every day, they would just talk about the gospel. And I would hear it and sometimes it was going one ear and out the other. So I hear the other gospel. When are we going to go out and tell these people they're going to hell with the picket signs? But as the days went on, as the weeks went on, then the gospel started like penetrating my heart like, OK, so if we believe, if they believe that Jesus died, was buried and resurrected in three days, they can go to heaven? What about the fast and if they stand like what about you know, all these rules, what about them? And they didn't mention that they just kept emphasizing the gospel, emphasizing the gospel and this scriptures to affirm the gospel by second Corinthians 521 how it talks about Jesus who knew no sin became sin for us so that we could become the righteousness of God in Christ talking about Christ imputed righteousness on us when we believe the gospel how we receive his perfect righteousness. I didn't know that. So now I'm learning all these different scriptures to affirm the gospel. And then my mindset is changing. I'm being renewed in my mind. Like, okay, this is how they received it. I mean, this is how they were receiving it. That must have been how I received it. And I love that message after a while. At first it was too simple for me. I didn't like that. I'm like, I'm not including everything. Y'all ain't getting half the truth. Shaniqua: How do you reconcile for an unbeliever? Do you believe in hell? You do? So India Johnson: Yes. Shaniqua: with the gospel of grace. How would you, because you your background, your training is in evangelism, how then would you, for someone who has rejected Christ, what would you say to them? India Johnson: I would say that Rejecting Christ would lead to eternal separation, you know from God like Shaniqua: Mm. Like that. India Johnson: if we're in in Christ we're not really Focused on hell because we know that our sins are no longer counted against us in Christ But it's not because it's not that we sinned It's not that we rejected Christ that we go to hell. We were already on our way to hell period. We were Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: born of Adam and on our way to hell. But Jesus gives us, He can save us from hell. And it's not just about heaven and hell. It's also we can have the Spirit of God live in us. We can receive heaven inside of us. We can be God's heaven. We could be the dwelling place of God on earth. But if you... Shaniqua: I love how you said that separation. That Tiana: Mm. Shaniqua: separation from God. Because we downplayed that so much. And that that truly is hell. Like that separation. I love how you said that. Sorry, I had to interrupt right there. Because that I love India Johnson: No, you're fine. Shaniqua: I love how you said that because most people, you know, we we brought up to think of hell, the devil, and all of this. And not to get into any of those things, but the greatest hell that we can experience is to be separated from God. And and and Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: Yeah. Shaniqua: and no one I don't think we as humans truly understand that. India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. I think that adds India Johnson: And... Tiana: a a greater weight to it than just saying, you're going to hell. Like, no, you're going, India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: you're going to be separated from the God that knows you. Shaniqua: Yeah. Tiana: No one knows you like God does. He created you. And you're about to separate yourself from that and also India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: from his love. Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. Tiana: That's that's a that's a weight, a weighted thing to think about. And I think if we explained it that way, I think more people will come to Christ. Instead of Shaniqua: Yeah. Tiana: just telling them, you just going to a place. Like, no you Shaniqua: Because we've been we've become so desensitized to hell. It's everywhere. It's Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: TV shows. It's when you cussing someone out, or we have become desensitized to what hell is because it becomes this this almost this fantasy place, Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: but the separation. You know, when cause something is cleaved together and you're separated from your maker, you're separated from your creator, you're separated. And the and and I I I just love what India just said and T T you or what you were saying. If we if that is truly broken down like that, we might see some things a little different. Tiana: We might. India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: Yeah, yeah. So India, you have dreams, right? So where where were you going to interpret those dreams? online or YouTube? India Johnson: YouTube. YouTube, in the beginning I was on YouTube. I was looking up teachers, dream interpreters, demonologists. I wasn't looking in the Bible for certain. Tiana: Well India Johnson: But there would be people who presented themselves as dream interpreters on YouTube. And I realized after I would watch these YouTube videos, I would have even more dreams. And they would Tiana: Mm. India Johnson: tell me like if a crocodile shows up in your dream, that's the spirit of Levi's and that's pride that means you got to get delivered from the Levi's spirit. So I will believe these people because I didn't know anything. So I'm like whoever is providing the explanation, that's what I'm going to listen to because I don't have an explanation anywhere else. And I didn't think that I had that access to God that we have freely. I didn't know that yet because I was still slipping up in sin. was still. falling into sin and punishing myself for the sin. I'm like, God is not going to tell me what this dream means. So Tiana: Mm. India Johnson: I have to outsource my information. Shaniqua: Girl, so how did you there there's so many questions with that? So how did you number one recognize that you didn't have to outsource that? And India Johnson: Ha Shaniqua: at the same time, you know, there are examples when those who were not in relationship with God did outsource. and someone who was in relationship with God was to be interpreter of dreams. Joseph was that. So how did you Number one, how did you even discern who who who who was real and who wasn't? Cause that goes into like false teachings and false prophets. And and what would you tell someone right now who's a dreamer just like you are and just like you were in just starting this journey? India Johnson: If they make you cash at them, zeal them, paypal them, say interpret their dream, block them. Unsubscribe. Unsubscribe. They are a designer. Tiana: When I tell you when I tell India Johnson: They're diviner. Tiana: you that that did something to me when I when I got on TikTok seeing people do that to interpret a dream or give a word or give a prophecy and I'm like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. You gotta pay for it? I yeah, I could just go talk to God for it though. Like we don't it's it's free. India Johnson: Exactly. If it's something that God wants me to know, why are you charging me? Why do I have to have your zeal and paypal and your bio if you're doing this work for God? If he gave you this gift to serve the body, because that's what we're supposed to do with our gifts is to use them for other people. Why am I being charged for it? And then I'm thinking like, well, tarot card readers and mediums, they provide the same service. So what's the difference between You in the medium, you just say the name of Jesus. But you're still charging me to hear from God, essentially, which I Tiana: Mm. India Johnson: know it's not. It's not the case. Another way that I knew that what I was getting involved in, what's not from God, is that the more I was listening to these people, the more demonic encounters that I was having. It turned into a monthly thing to a nightly thing. And they would get more aggressive. And they're telling me like, this is happening because you opened the door because you sinned. So since you opened the door, you didn't renounce and denounce your grandpa's sin. You only renounced and denounced your sin, but your grandfather's sin is still, you you still have to pay for that. So that's why these amount of encounters are happening to you. And I was like, that's kind of like, that's kind of unfair how Jesus died for my sins. But now my sins are forgiven. Now my grandpa's sins come upon me. And now, I gotta pay for the books. Jesus paid for mine, but now I gotta pay for my grandpa's. I don't even know that man. So I was like, this is ridiculous. Tiana: Ha ha ha. Ha ha. Shaniqua: I love it. I don't even know that man. India Johnson: You Tiana: And this is what I mean by I love how India breaks it down with that comedic relief. Because when you India Johnson: Ha! Tiana: start thinking about these things and asking those questions, like, wait a minute, my sins are gone, but I still gotta pay from a great, great, great, great uncle. That doesn't make sense. India Johnson: And then where does it end? Like the linear, it never stops. now, we're now to denounce my grandpa's death and now it's his great grandma. And it's like, dang, like it's always something. Every week it's somebody else's sins. Yeah. Shaniqua: It's somebody else. Can you do mine now? Tiana: You love that. India Johnson: Like this is exhausting. Shaniqua: I got you next week. India Johnson: And then I was thinking, you know, another thing I was thinking, like, I know for a fact that some people in my family knew the Lord. So how come nations wasn't forgiven? This is, was everybody doing witchcraft? Cause that's how they would make it seem like your auntie, was secretly doing witchcraft. Was everybody in the lineage secretly doing witchcraft? Cause this is insane. Tiana: But then also how would you know that? How would you know that about my great aunt that she was doing witchcraft? India Johnson: Mm-hmm the demons told them and then I realized you guys are talking to demons quite frequently Shaniqua: Haha You seem to be real y you and them demons on good terms. They coming to tell you everything. India Johnson: Yeah, everything about me. Like, I got a paper to hear from God. The demons is giving you all my ancestry. Shaniqua: T. O. T. Tiana: Ha ha. Shaniqua: That is hilarious. That's hilarious. India Johnson: would say to the dreamers, I will say that if God has given you dreams, He is going to interpret your dreams, period. He's not going give you a dream and you go your whole life not knowing what the dream means. Because He gave it to you for a reason. Just like with Joseph, like it might be a weird dream, it might be hard to explain to somebody else, but however He makes sense to you, it's going to make perfect sense. because he's communicating to you. So you're not going to have to outsource from somebody who's going to charge you $25 on a Shaniqua: Right. And if it's so and and and God can send people without a fee to Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: Yes, yes, yes, that's all! Shaniqua: speak to you into your life in ways that you wouldn't even I mean and and and people who you know are sent by God a lot of times they will be speaking and saying something and it reconfirms something that God has already spoken to you before Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: Yes. Shaniqua: so you don't have to tell them anything, Tiana: Mm-mm. Shaniqua: they are speaking. In something and you like God was talking to me about this last night. So it is reconfirming what God has already told you, or it is giving insight to something God has already shown you. So India Johnson: Yes. Shaniqua: be care because I don't I'm one of them people that I don't believe in I it's I don't believe in people speaking over my life. It's child, yeah. I don't believe in people speaking over my life in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I I truly believe in testing the spirit by the spirit, me going back and ask God, what is this? Is this, should I receive what this person is saying? Even the most renowned, prophetic, whatever, I'm I'm highly particular about that. But India, like Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: you said, it's not someone that's asking you to cash out them, PayPal. That's not what that is. Tiana: Mm mm, mm India Johnson: I Tiana: mm. India Johnson: love what you said because it's always with me at least confirmation. It's not Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: rarely ever is it anybody bringing me something that God didn't reveal to me first. It's always like we have the same source. I already received that information two months ago. It's always that for me. So I'm glad that you Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. India Johnson: brought that up. Shaniqua: So I have a question from from you. So one of the things when T and I we were talking, I I I have I'm licensed at my church. And so technically I have reverend in front of my name, but I'm not a person that likes that likes titles. But I use it because especially within the black community, it shows training. I've gone to school, my master's is in Christian education. I believe and then black people, unfortunately, they gravitate to a ta a title. Like I I really and but at the same time, let me say this, I don't think there's anything wrong because one of the things my theology professors in grad school would say is the Holy Spirit has a strange affinity for a trained mind. And I and I do believe that I do understand that, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a title specifically. But as a creator, a content creator, who are you accountable to? And then how should listeners weigh the voices that they follow? India Johnson: Hey, good question. I'm accountable to my leadership at church. I might be sharing things too soon, but I'm joining the teaching community at Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: my church. My pastor says that he sees leadership qualities in me. Before then, I was a part of my evangelism group where I was being a disciple in evangelism. And I would have mentors and they would check me and they would tell me about the things that I post and my attitude behind what I said. if it was beneficial towards the body or if was like I was beating down on people too hard or if they came from the right, the wrong heart posture. So mentors in my church. And then how I would tell people to weigh the content that they receive. that the question? Weigh what you're hearing from Christian content through the scriptures. Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. India Johnson: can, what, whatever this person is saying, can it be substantiated with scriptures? And not. through isogensis, through exegesis. I have to learn like. Shaniqua: Do you mind do you mind breaking that down for people who don't know I know what that is and the the but the terminology for our re our our readers, our listeners. Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: Yes, so I said Jesus is when somebody's interpreting scripture to you with their own pretty conceived note notes in their own agenda They're interpreting the text through their emotions their ideas. It can't really be They can't be broken down Contextually extra Jesus is when you read it for the author's intended purpose like who was the author right into? Why was he writing to that that group of people and what was he trying to convey? And if you read, if you take that isolated scripture that that person taught you and you read the rest of the context, does it fit or did they take it out of context? A scripture that was taken out of context when I was in superstition and legalism was Ephesians 427 and says, don't don't give a foothold to the enemy. And the teachers and the prophets and dream interpreters will always use that scripture. Then I realized that's the half of the sentence. They isolated that half of a sentence to teach a different doctrine, to teach a doctrine that if you sin, then you give the devil legal rights to you. From that one half of a sentence, but I didn't realize they were Icigine, they were reading their own interpretation into the text, from the wisdom that they got from the demons and the witches and reading that into the text. If you want to test whatever somebody's saying online, doesn't make sense if you read a paragraph before and a paragraph after. what they say, does it still make sense or did they totally twist it around? That's a good way Tiana: Mm. India Johnson: to tell. Tiana: Mm-hmm. You definitely need Yes. Shaniqua: Thank you. That you just showed your training. India Johnson: Yeah! Tiana: Yes. You definitely need that context. And that is why we should all read our Bibles for ourselves. India Johnson: Okay. Tiana: And also I would add, watch their response in those comments when someone says, Hey, this this kind of don't make sense. Watch how they respond. If if it's in one of those nasty Christian ways, it's probably yeah, it's probably Shaniqua: Nasty Christians. They following. I'm not sure they're modeling. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't have a relationship, but they following. They're not necessarily modeling. Tiana: Mm-hmm, India Johnson: Yes, they shouldn't be Tiana: mm-hmm. Always watch that. India Johnson: accusing you. They shouldn't be calling you names. You're not a witch if you have a question. You're not Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: possessed by a demon if you have a question. They should, they're supposed to be able to answer the question. If they're teaching something, they should expect a question. So it's a red flag. If they're teaching you something, you ask them a question and they get defensive. Run, run away. Block them, Tiana: Okay. India Johnson: unsubscribe. Tiana: Because that's how we learn God through curiosity. And so if if you say we doing Bible study and you teaching scriptures, I can't ask a question, that's crazy. Shaniqua: Right, right. And India Johnson: Yeah! Shaniqua: going back to God is parent, Abba, like that's how we learn by asking questions. And so God is okay with me asking questions. Then but you not India Johnson: Mm-hmm. Right. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: miss me with that. I'm sorry. Tiana: Please. India Johnson: No, your heart as a teacher and these people, they prop themselves up as teachers. As a teacher, you should be excited to answer a question because you know that somebody has a question, they're listening. Like Shaniqua: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: they want to gain an understanding. And as a teacher, that excites you because that person's not, you know that you're not saying something to them and they're leaving confused. You want them to understand. You want them to be edified. You want them to understand who they are in Christ. That's our goal. We want people to understand who they are in Christ. We want people to understand what Christ did for us in the cross. We want to explain His finished work because it glorifies Him. It glorifies God when people have knowledge. They're not just practicing traditions and religions, but they really know like this is what Jesus did. This is what the Bible said that Jesus accomplished. And then it strips the enemy of His power because we know He don't have any power. And it glorifies God. We need that knowledge. need to continue to grow in our knowledge of God. Shaniqua: That leads us to our final section. And T, you, you, you started off. Cause I know we're running out we're with our time, but go ahead, T. Tiana: Yes. India Johnson: Yeah. Tiana: Okay, so going back to grace. So why do you why why does grace sometime offend religious people? Why do you think that? India Johnson: Because it's unmerited. Because they did not earn it. They cannot earn it. They can't outdo anybody. That's how I felt, least. Like, I could not think of myself more highly than I to. I didn't like that there was no favorites. Like, was no... I couldn't be God's favorite human. That really... Shaniqua: Girl India Johnson: That grinded my gears. I'm not even gonna lie. Shaniqua: You're not finna make this a hour and a half conversation, but my gosh. India Johnson: Yeah, I didn't Shaniqua: The India Johnson: I wanted to build myself in the rankings like my mindset was okay. I knocked off alcoholism I knocked off sex work. I've knocked off Bisexuality like I'm down these things I overcame, you know fornication I overcame these sins So now I'm up here and the cousin Christian is down. I had a thing for a cousin Christians But the cousin Christian is down here and I was looking down on them Shaniqua: Girl, you would hated me. I'm just saying. India Johnson: No, I definitely I don't it made me cringe when I heard and I was just testing like two months prior But I'm like, how can they speak that way and God is listening. my goodness. That's crazy But I couldn't esteem myself but that comes from a little self-esteem that comes from shame that comes from guilt because if I would have fully believed that God cleansed me of all my unrighteousness he cleansed me of all my sins I wouldn't think that I had to pay him back for once being a sex worker or once doing drugs or I wouldn't think that I had to prove myself. But I did think I had to myself and I feel like they weren't working hard enough to prove themselves. Unto who? Unto me, because I was the one with the magnifying glass. So I think that's what Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: it is. It's like they know when they hear that it's unmerited, when they hear that their neighbor who smell like cigarette smoke can have it too, it just it irritates something inside. Shaniqua: Because we always want to be better than the the next person and the lowless person. Like that is the summation India Johnson: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: of Top tier. Love, love that answer. That insight. That insight was an answer. Love that insight. I Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: wholeheartedly b believe that that I I agree because of the human ego. Because of the human ego. and my question was my n my next question, but you already you answered it was preemptively was like, what does that resistance to grace reveal about us and what we believe about God? But it it reveals that, you know, we we always have to feel like we're better than someone else. And so it's so hard to extend grace to other people and to accept grace because grace doesn't have a ranking system. Grace doesn't have a ranking system. India Johnson: Mm-hmm. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: ma'am. Okay. I I don't have anything else to you. You you you India Johnson: Yeah Tiana: Yeah. Everybody Shaniqua: want to ask the final question and then I'll wrap it up? Tiana: Yeah, yeah, I'll I'll go ahead and I'll ask the the final question. I'll ask your question. I know we're going out of turn. So you describe the woman you hope hears this, the one who feels God is punishing her for a past he forgave, trying to earn her way out of guilt and shame. If she is listening right now, what do you want her to know? India Johnson: I want you to know that God demonstrated his love for you when Jesus was sacrificed on the cross. You don't have to prove anything. He knows your end from your beginning. He knows everything about you and he still loves you. It's not like human love where you've got to hide parts of yourself until they get used to you and then you reveal little by little how small you are. He already knows how far you are and He told you still knowing that you were flawed and you don't have to make up for what you've done because you're a new creation in Christ and it's not by your works, not by you changing yourself. It's because He decided to make you a new creation in Christ. He just gave you the righteousness of His Son and it's perfect, perfect righteousness. Like you're made white as snow. So if you feel like guilt, shame, condemnation. No, that's not from God. That's from the enemy. That's a deception from the enemy. And God sees you as his daughter. He's so ready to just pour his love and favor and blessings on you just because. You don't have to earn those things little by little. If you're obedient enough, he's gonna give you a husband or a car. No, it's not based on that. It's based on who he is. It's not about who we are because if it was about who we are, nobody would get it. Cuz all of us have our flaws, so. Shaniqua: Amen. I want to just clarify one thing. We asked that question from the context of a woman, because most of our listeners may be women, but for whatever, Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: if it's a man listening, her answer applies to you too. Wholeheartedly India Johnson: Yes. Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: for all of God's kids. All of God's kids, please know that. India, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We have enjoyed this conversation. I confidently say we. Tiana: Yes. India Johnson: Do do do! Shaniqua: Have enjoyed this conversation. you are a delight to talk to, you are a delight to the body, the kingdom. And I wholeheartedly, wholeheartedly say this that I am glad that you are still here and with us. Because baby, God is Tiana: Absolutely. Shaniqua: doing some mighty works through you for the kingdom to be able to bring his children to him as well. So Tiana: Mm-hmm. Shaniqua: I am so glad that that woman spoke those words to you. Cause baby, what you crying for? You a child of the king. Yes, ma'am. Tiana: Yeah. India Johnson: Yeah, fuck it. Shaniqua: So with that being said, tell us how people can follow you on social media and then we'll we'll be done. India Johnson: Okay, that was so lovely. Like my cheeks are like they hurt. I appreciate it. And thank you guys for allowing me on. I felt so honored when you guys invited me. I'm like, why do you guys want me? But if Shaniqua: Yeah. India Johnson: anybody wants to reach me, I'm nd500 on TikTok. I'm not the best seller, but I ndy the number five in the word hundred. I'm that on Instagram, on Facebook. I'm nd the number five. No, the written word five and then the written word hungry on YouTube. Yes. So Shaniqua: We'll put it we'll also put it in the chat too. Tiana: Mm-hmm. India Johnson: don't just take my word for it. Also check out the chat and just follow me and or don't follow me. Just enjoy my content, but just check me out. Yeah, follow me. Yeah, follow me. Definitely Shaniqua: Mm mm, mm mm. Follow her. We never gonna negate that. Follow her. Tiana: Yes, yes, absolutely. India Johnson: follow me. I don't know where that voice came from. Definitely follow me. And check me out and I hope that you were blessed by this conversation because I certainly was blessed by this. I love Christians. I love Shaniqua: Yes. India Johnson: talking about other Christians. Because y'all get it. Y'all get it. So I hope that Shaniqua: Okay, we get it, okay. India Johnson: this conversation blessed you. Again, you're dealing with shame or guilt, just know that's not from God. If you're with self-condemnation or feeling like you're condemning other people, just repent, just turn. have a change of mind. That's not how we're supposed to live. But yeah, awesome conversation, guys. Shaniqua: Thank you. Thank you so much for your time.