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What About Generations? With Beth · The Strategic Pause

• Jill: Hello, friends. Welcome to the Strategic Pause season two, episode four. And this is an exciting one because we have our very first guest this episode. So we're super excited to strategically pause with a guest today. And our guest is Beth Fisher. Beth is the operations analyst for Think Dev. So Beth does all things kind of internal to the organization. honestly, Beth keeps the organization running. And if you're listening to this and you are a client, you've probably ever had an invoicing or an insurance question, you know that Beth is the person to go to. So we have Beth here today because we are very curious about generations, generations in the workplace, the similarities with generations, the maybe not so similarities. What are we thinking about all the generations? And we figured Beth was the perfect person to have a conversation with about that. Because if you're not watching and can't see, Beth is a very different generation than Katrina and I. She is a few years younger than us. We'll just we'll just leave it there, right? So, Katrina, kick us off. How do you feel about generations? What do you think about the whole generations in the workplace thing? Go. Katrina: Well, first of all, I really appreciate that you kinda glommed you and I into the same like age group. That was very kind. It was very kind. Very kind. Elisabeth Fischer: He Jill: Absolutely, absolutely, yes, 100%. Compared to Beth, we are the same age group, so yeah. Katrina: Pretty much. Just funny how like we get closer and closer the older we get. Jill: Yep, yep. Katrina: so so I d I do need to go on record that that generations are a slippery slope. I think we can easily like decide to describe people with this label, and then we have these assumptions and expectations, and it can become an easy crutch for managers to blame people or to Jill: Yes. Katrina: just have a false expectation. And then treat people poorly. So while I think there are definitely age differences and there are differences that we grow up at different times, I I think we have to be careful. and and and so that's that's gonna lead me into a question that like feels like it's actually against what I just said, but we're gonna go Jill: Ha ha ha. Katrina: with it. So so my question for you, Beth, is how would how would you describe Your generation. Elisabeth Fischer: describe my generation as very personally involved. I don't want to say that we're like overly like self-absorbed, but we care a lot about ourselves and our lives and we don't really care about like following the path or climbing the like we want the job that offers us to like have most flexibility, live our best life, be a influencer on the side, be a TikToker when we want to. and I think that that overall just describes Gen Z like we're not really afraid to hurt each other's feelings. We've become very like independent solo thinkers, but also at the same time, like we are so involved in the social media of everything and doing the same thing as everybody else. So it is a very contradicting thing to say, but I think that is the best way to put it. We are very about us and what we have going on and how that will affect us down the road. Katrina: Yeah, I I I can see that. I can see that. So in case people didn't hear it, Beth identifies with Generation Z. and I'll just put out there, I am a wholehearted, fully stereotypical generation X. even though I just said I but so so so Beth, do you do you really identify with your generation and like and the labels that get put on it? Elisabeth Fischer: Most part I would say yes. I am like the most gen Z 25-year-old teenage something girl ever. I buy all the new anthropology cups, I want to get all the new Starbucks drinks that come out. I love Taylor Swift. but as far as like working and that kind of thing goes, not so much. I do like to follow the path and I do like to do what is like traditional and expected. and I do like to work a lot. I love to work all the time, which I think is a stereotype that goes a lot against Gen Z. Like we want to know how many vacation days we have, how much PTO do we have, what can we clock off as soon as we're done? I did that already. I don't want to do that anymore. And I don't think that's all Gen Z, but the stereotype did come from somewhere. So I do think that in that sense I am a little separated from those that are around my age. Katrina: I I think that was one of many reasons why we wanted to have you on the podcast because because I've watched you work and you work you you work harder than I do. Jill: She's a hard worker. Beth is one of the hardest workers I know. Yes. Katrina: Yeah. And and I think that's one of the things that happens with generations is we get these labels and we get these ideas and then and then you show up to work and people put that expectation on you and that disconnect can be really uncomfortable. Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah. And I think that a lot of people have seen, you know, these people become influencers or like TikTokers and all they do, all they do, I mean, they put a lot of work in, but from when you're watching it on the other side, this person's just going to Target and taking videos of themselves there. And you're like, Well, why would I spend eight hours a day at work filing reports and doing emails if I could just video myself at Target? And now everybody has this shared dream of being a stay-at-home influencer. And I think that That plays into it more than that people just don't want to work. It's like I've seen how easy it can be to make millions of dollars Jill: Mm. Elisabeth Fischer: by filming yourself. And I think that people are chasing that dream more than they're chasing like I wanna be CFO someday. Like it's just a divide more so than they're not wanting to work. Jill: Do you see that like Katrina: Yeah, I Jill: in your friends? Because I think it's really interesting. I mean, you've worked with us for three years, three and a half years, right? And I find that there's a lot of movement now in jobs. So when I'm like reviewing resumes or when I'm out there with organizations, they tell me that the the people that they hire in entry-level positions do not stay, right? They they do not stay, they they churn. But I don't see that in you, so I'm just curious, like, do you see that in your friends? Is this all just a stereotype? Or or are you the are you the square peg of the round hole or opposite? Elisabeth Fischer: That is exactly right. we have been taught in school, actually. Like I went to business school. I graduated from Oregon State University, Gail Beavers, from the School of Business. And they taught us, probably not necessarily taught us, but we were told by a lot of teachers that the only way that you're gonna get ahead now or make enough money is to, you know, turn your job around if you're not getting a raise. If you aren't Jill: interesting. Elisabeth Fischer: meeting a certain mark by a certain time. Time to move on to the next place because everybody who's above you has worked there for so long and they have set a precedent. And if you're not making it, you can find it somewhere else. And so I do see that in Jill: Interesting. Elisabeth Fischer: a lot of my friends. Like most a lot of my friends are nurses, so they don't necessarily fall into this group. That's like another thing among Jill: Mm. Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: my generation. We have a lot of people in healthcare. but my friends who work similar corporate jobs, a lot of them have moved a couple of times, and this isn't the first job I had out of college either, but I have been here for a long time now and I Say that is pretty different. Like most people I see them at a wedding and also even another wedding a year later, and they have a totally new job. And I'm almost like even my own fiance, he's changed jobs like four times, I think, since I've had this job. So yeah, I think Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: that I am very different in that sense that most people are not staying with the same job straight out the gate, entry level, they're moving around as much as they can. But that's kind of what we were taught. Katrina: Yeah. I think that it it it tracks with the the economy. It tracks with what we see organizations Jill: Mm-hmm. Katrina: doing. you know, and and going going back to my generation, right? Like we like loyalty is something that we got accused of not having. Jill: Hm. Katrina: Because we Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah. Katrina: were the we were that generation that's like, nope, not gonna not gonna do what yeah, we're not playing that game. Jill: We're not doing that. Yeah. Right. Katrina: And and so it doesn't It doesn't surprise me, Beth, that that's the message you're hearing from from school even. Elisabeth Fischer: And I feel like it's kind of the same thing with the loyalty. A lot of people in my generation, we've given up on, you know, when I was a kid, everyone said, I'm gonna be CEO, I'm gonna be CFO and I think a lot of us have given up on even chasing the ladder climb if you're not gonna treat us like as an equal on the way up. And I think that that's really where it stems from is not even just, you know, I'm not making enough money, but it's just I'm seeing how you're treating everybody else and just because I'm entry level and I'm Gen Z and you think I'm not gonna work as hard and I'm not getting I'm not reaping any benefits yet. I'll go somewhere that does believe in me. And there are a lot of startups, you know, that are hiring young people and Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: do believe in them. And so if their traditional corporate job isn't fulfilling you in that way, there's tons of opportunities for you to get out there and do it. And so I think that that has to do a lot with the jumping around too. Jill: Okay, so go on, sorry. Katrina: I think you see options too, like right. You know, like like the being able to see options is so much easier for your generation and being Jill: Yes. Elisabeth Fischer: Yes, yes. Katrina: able to connect to those options and the people who are in positions that can support you. Jill: That's an interesting point. I didn't even think about Elisabeth Fischer: Lost lost my job. Jill: that. Elisabeth Fischer: yes, I mean, even if you're not looking, they're constantly being I've been at this job for three years. I d haven't looked at a job post in well over three years, and they still come up on my LinkedIn all the time, like, Hey, this job could be for you, this is for you. Like, even if you're not looking, there people are looking for you. The internet is looking for you. Your chat GPT is probably looking for you, like, hey, you would be super good at this. Wanna try it for it? yeah, so I think that is another part of it. Like some of us aren't even looking for jobs, but we'll come across something and it's like, I wasn't looking, but this has appeared on my search and now maybe I do want that. So that constant stream of that is also a part of it. Jill: That's funny because I get those I get those job announcements and I'm like, Katrina: Okay, so I have to ask you a question, Jill. I Right. Elisabeth Fischer: I know. Jill: hello. Elisabeth Fischer: This is actually my company. Katrina: I do too. Jill: Yeah. Katrina: So so I Jill, I have to ask you this question. I want Jill: Okay, okay, okay. Katrina: you I want you to go back in time to your to your first post-college job that was not for a family member. How did Jill: Okay. Katrina: you find it? Jill: okay. I mean, technically my first job was at Sack State and they found me because I was the Panalonic president and so the student activities advisor. But my first job outside of that after we moved to San Francisco, I found on Craigslist and it was at UCSF. Katrina: Okay, so you and I are about ten years different, right? I'm ten years Jill: Mm-hmm. Katrina: older than you are. I walked into a building and looked at the papers stapled to the wall. Jill: Sorry, we're not laughing at you, we're laughing with you. Yeah. Katrina: Laugh with me. Like, because but I but I think that's the important thing here. When we talk about job hopping, when we talk about opportunities, like Beth is being handed them when she's not even looking for them. So we've created this Jill: Yes, yes, yes. Katrina: world we live in, so we shouldn't be surprised that Jill: Yes. Katrina: people are seeing other opportunities. You know, there was no income like transparency. I mean, there still is we still struggle with it, right? Jill: Yes, right. Yeah, yeah. Katrina: But but if If you are making X number of dollars and you know that over here you can be doing different work, maybe a better manager for X plus dollars. Jill: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: Well. Katrina: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah. The other thing that comes with that is the the LinkedIn job posts, they a lot of them promise you all like, we have unlimited PTO. We have a super Jill: Hmm. Elisabeth Fischer: cool office with a pool table and we do happy hour every Thursday. And then you get there and it's like basically a pyramid scheme inside of an office building and you're like, Wow, thanks so much. I was promised the dream. So Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: That does come with the hopping as well. Like we hop to these jobs that were promised on paper to be everything we wanted and more and then you show up and you're like, What the heck? And then you have to hop again. So it's all just it's all just fun until you figure out your right place. Jill: It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye. Elisabeth Fischer: Ex yeah exactly. Katrina: So what do you think we get wrong about your generation, Beth? Elisabeth Fischer: my goodness. I personal okay, my family, so I am like the oldest of my cousins and then my mom's brother's sister's cousins are only about ten years older than me. So we are close enough that it has been a consideration for my whole life. And they everyone just thinks that we're just addicted to our phones all the time and, you know, screenagers and all we know how to do is talk about things on the internet and talk like the people we see on the internet. And I just think That is true in some sense, but it's kind of the same thing as everybody else. It just like phones just happened to be the thing that were around when we were a kid. Everybody, you know, in the eighties said rad or groovy or whatever you were thinking was cool at the time. And it's the same for us, but it's just not as it's just a lot more niche. And so I think that people think that we're just addicted to our phones and everything like that, but that's the world around like what if you had a Atari or a game queue put in front of you, and it was the newest thing, you would also be addicted to it, but it's just not connected to other people, which is even more enticing because it's you know, I am not from I live in Chico and I'm not from here. My whole life is seven hours away from me, and you know, that's the only time I talk to my friends, is on my phone. And so, you know, even at 25, my boyfriend calls me an iPad kid, he'll be like, iPad kid always on her phone, and yeah, I might. be on my phone, but that's where my people live and that's how they are. And you know, 40 years ago, people probably wished that they could text their best friend who lived 40 miles away and didn't have to plan a phone call with them. Now that does have some things that come along with it. But I think that the thing that people get wrong with is that we're addicted to our phones because you know we're like addicted to ourselves and you know not wanting to talk to people and being antisocial. But I am actually being social 90% of the time that I'm on my phone. So I think that is something that people get very wrong. Jill: Well, and that's where your friends are, right? I mean, your friends are on their phones too. So I think that's an interesting point. Like you are connecting with the people where they're at, and where they're at happens to be on their phones, which is something I don't really think about as often. Katrina: I I think it's a perfect point, you know. I Jill: Yeah. Katrina: was on the on the phone in my kitchen with the cord that l that, you know, I could yank into the living room until somebody needed it, right? And then you got off of it. Jill: Yeah. Yeah. Katrina: so I think that desire to be connected Jill: Mm-hmm. Katrina: is is just human. You just have better Jill: Mm-hmm. Katrina: technology for it. Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah. And not to say that I don't spend a couple hours a day watching TikToks of Taylor Swift concerts either, but some d you get a we get accused Jill: Ha ha Elisabeth Fischer: of only ever doing that and it's not always that. It is sometimes Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: for social interaction or, you know, calling your mom or t you know, seeing what's happening at home today that you weren't there to actually see in person. So yeah, I think that it's not as self involved and antisocial as it seems to be on your phone all the time for a Gen Z person. Katrina: Well, we can just look at some numbers and know that that is a huge stereotype that we thrust on your generation and that most other generations are guilty of as well. Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah, exactly. B you know, older people like think that they're not on their phone all the time, but you know, eighty percent of the time that I'm waiting for a plane or something, there's a grandma playing Sudoku on her phone next to me and just because it's Sudoku Jill: Yep. Yep. Elisabeth Fischer: doesn't make it any different. So you're still on your phone all the time. Katrina: Absolutely. Absolutely. Jill: That it is so accurate. I have a question. So we so Katrina, back to your point. I agree, you know, in the sense of like, I think most generations, we're all just people, and people need specific people things, and that's less about a generation and more about the fact that we're humans. But I will say, I think it was three weeks ago. in one week I had three people from three different organizations tell me they needed help with their like mid twenties, young twenties group of people that had come in. and so while it is a stereotype, I do think there are people in the office right now struggling a little bit, trying to connect with the people, the Gen Z. And it's the same, right? As like the get off the lawn my lawn. Like, I mean it's We've all been those young people, but if you had to give advice to an organization or give suggestions to an organization on how to keep their younger people, keep engaged, like what would you suggest that they do? Yes. That's to you, Beth. Katrina: That's to you, Beth. Yeah. Jill: Sorry. Elisabeth Fischer: she was asking Katrina. I was like Katrina knows everything. Of course she's asking Katrina. Jill: Katrina doesn't know this Katrina: You're so kind. I don't I don't know everything. I n I know what I would I know what I do in my house with my gin Gen Z, but Jill: Yeah Elisabeth Fischer: Think the best advice is to I think truly what it is for the Gen Z people of the world that maybe aren't so intrigued is that we were kind of also told, you know, that people need people to work. And so your address isn't, you know, you don't have to give your whole life away to a Fortune 500 company. You're a person too. You don't have to let them walk all over you. But I think that some people took that a little too far and thought, you know, you don't have to. Do what your boss asks you to on time all the time. You don't have to, you know, it's okay if you show up late. It's okay if you don't completely dress appropriate. It's okay if you take a really long lunch break on accident. You know, you don't owe them your whole life, which is completely true. You should have balance in your life and your whole life should not be work. But you have to also see the point that you need to be respectful and professional and go towards that. And most people can do that, but this voice in the back of their head saying, you know, like This is just a company, I don't owe them my life. I think that that's kind of where it steps in. And so I think the best thing to do would be to show them that you see them as people with lives as well. And, you know, really hone in on what they do to provide work life balance, but then also show that, you know, this is a job, a professional job that you probably want to have and what it can do for you. And so I think that just kind of showing the balance of that and what it means and what is expected. I think a lot of people think that way more is expected of them than actually. actually is and so they just kind of stop at the bare minimum. But if you know, sometimes you gotta just put it right in front of people and say, hey, like this is what we're asking, this is what we can do and in return, this is the work life balance you can have as long as all of this comes together. So I think that the best that is the best formula that I could give. Katrina: So if I could sum that up, what I what I hear you saying is that they need to connect with you as a human and Elisabeth Fischer: Yes. Katrina: then they need to provide clear expectations so you know what to do, and then they need to continue to communicate with you. Elisabeth Fischer: Correct. And I think that was nail on the head exactly what I was trying to say in very short words. Jill: Yeah, you did. Yeah. Katrina: No, you said it in beautiful words. I just wanted to sum it up because Elisabeth Fischer: Thank you. Thank you. Katrina: I think that what Generation Z wants is the same thing Jill: Yeah. Katrina: that every generation has wanted. But Jill: Yep. Elisabeth Fischer: Yes. Katrina: we just go about asking for it differently. Jill: Yeah. Katrina: And managers and leader managers, let's just call it managers. Managers often manage from the examples they've seen. Jill: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: And it's truly Katrina: Rather than that human peace. Elisabeth Fischer: the two stereotypes Jill: Yep. Elisabeth Fischer: just go against each other. You know, you make one mistake as a Gen Z where you might show that, I don't care, I can do whatever I want, and it's not even intentional. You just accidentally missed a meeting or something like that. But because that's been posted on your back like we don't want to do anything, the manager says, well, there they go. They don't care about being on time or whatever, and then they take a step forward and then, you know, push it back and then they think, Well, if you're gonna treat me like that, then I'm not gonna care. And then it just keeps going like Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: that. So I think j a Katrina: Yep, absolutely. Elisabeth Fischer: little grace and understanding in trying to forget that stereotype would also take people a very long way with their Gen Z population. Katrina: Yeah, I I think people forget what it's like to come into an organization new and what it's like Jill: Yeah, yeah. Katrina: to be in the workplace. You know, I I've always hated that, you know, common sense. It's just com well there, no, there is none. There's no such thing. Like we all had different Absolutely, you know, the like we need Jill: god, I hate that phrase. my god. That could be a whole episode, Katrina Katrina: different things at different times. I had this conversation yesterday with my son, who is Gen Z. He is younger than you. He's like trying to figure out his world. And he it hit we were talking about music and how we listen to music because we we I listen to one album on repeat for like a year and then move on to the next one. and he has he has a bigger variety than I do. And we were talk we were talking Jill: Yeah. Katrina: about the fact that we I need comfort in my music Jill: Mm. Mm. Katrina: and he needs control. Jill: Mm, interesting. Katrina: And I think that's about our age and our pl and our not our generation, as much as our life stage. Jill: U Katrina: And that life stage plays such a part of that com that conflict and miscommunication I think we have in the workplace. Elisabeth Fischer: And life stages are just so different for us now. Like when my mom was my age, she was married with two kids and she owned a house and you know, Jill: Mm-hmm. Yep. Elisabeth Fischer: I'm I'm not in that stage at all. And so I think that that has also shifted like people grew up a lot faster before and so they kind of just expect the same thing out of us. But you know, we're waiting until we're thirty to get married and have kids and we go to college until we're twenty nine and so I think that Some of that also really plays into it's not even about our generation, it's just the life stage we're in doesn't reflect what you think it should from your own experience. Katrina: Absolutely. Absolutely. Jill: I think, Gen Z, you're much better from my in my opinion at bringing kind of like your whole self to work. Like, I think you're much better at being like, yeah, I was up all night because, you know, my dog is sick or something. And I think in the past that has been more of like, well, don't don't talk about what last night was because people might see you as weaker or whatever. And that doesn't Build organizations that just puts up walls. So I do think your generation is much better at showing up and be like, yeah, I'm a whole person. And of course it matters that I was up all night for my dog and now I'm tired of work. Like, of course that matters because I'm only one person. I can't split those personalities. and I do think we could learn a lot from that. Us, us elderly people. Katrina: Well well, it it it challenges all of our systems. And I think, you know, every generation does that a little bit more. And and now we have a generation at a at a really pivotal time when we look at the changes in technology, when we look at the changes in the world around us, like we've got some big decisions to make. We have some difficult things ahead of us. and you know, I got I kinda like that there's a generation shaking it up and and willing to call out some Jill: Yeah. Katrina: of of of the things we don't value. 'Cause, you know, you don't get to do this again. This is a this is a one shot deal. Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah, we have Jill: Turns out Elisabeth Fischer: we have really thrown like not politeness, we're all polite and kind, but we really would like to get to the p we don't want the we don't need the pleasantries. We would just like to there's a saying in Gen Z, I'm sure that TMI to you stands for too much information. For us, we say tell me immediately, no such thing. Just TMI, tell me immediately. No such thing as too much information. Jill: I never heard that. Elisabeth Fischer: And I think that that's Katrina: I love that. Elisabeth Fischer: so true. I don't waste Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: a single second ever meeting somebody, being like, hi, I'm Beth. It's so nice to meet you. And then just sit in the Jill: Ha ha ha. Elisabeth Fischer: corner. I'm like, Would you like to hear my life story? Would you like to know what happened to me on Jill: Ha ha. Elisabeth Fischer: the way to this meeting today? Could I tell you a funny story about my fiance and some crazy thing that happened to me last night? And also what was your name? Nice to meet you. Jill: Ha ha ha. Elisabeth Fischer: and I think a lot of us are like that. Katrina: One of the most delightful things about you, Beth, is that we can be in a meeting talking about an unrelated personal thing, right? Like we always start meetings that way. Like, what's something, whatever, you know, what's your favorite food or whatever the question is. And we will go and go and sometimes go on tangents, and then you just have this beautiful way of going, okay, well, and the next thing is and Jill: Yeah. Katrina: It's not off-putting. It's it's just like, let's get down to business. We like took care of that. Now just tell me immediately Jill: Yeah. Katrina: what we're doing next. Elisabeth Fischer: You know, I that's just from years of practice. I did I this is gonna be crazy to hear. When I was younger, I was not as outgoing and wanting to sign up to do everything as I am now. Like I would get super anxious and not want to join clubs or be a part of things and it stressed me out so badly and I would just sit through class or whatever, not raise my hand, do anything. And then one day I just started saying whatever I was thinking and then no one told me to stop and I had just have kept doing Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: it. And so I like in the meeting it just seems obvious to me, you know. Okay, we spent ten minutes talking about this. We're not gonna have any time to talk about the important things. Does okay, and does someone wanna tell me what their favorite thing to do at work today is? Because we've gotta get there. Someone's gotta do it. Jill: Ha ha ha Elisabeth Fischer: And if I have to be the person to do it, I am happy to. Katrina: I love Jill: I do too. I do too. Okay, we gotta get to question six, Katrina. So Katrina: is just gonna say the same thing. Do you wanna a ask it? Jill: No, I want you to ask it because I wanna Katrina: Okay. Jill: I want you to feel comfortable best to talk about me in this question. So you ask it, Katrina. Katrina: I I may just drop part of it out so that's just about you. Jill: Fair, a hundred percent, absolutely. Katrina: All right. No, I won't I won't throw her under the bus. So Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah. Katrina: so Beth, what's something that Jill or I do that's clearly of our generation that you just sit back and silently judge? Jill: Or giggle at or yep. Elisabeth Fischer: Jill actually did this this morning. I Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: was CC'd on an email that came to both of us and Jill forwarded it to me. And sometimes Jill forwards me things that have already come through my inbox, which is totally fine. I really respect the rounding it all up, but she'll say, hey, here's this, forwards it to Jill: Ha ha ha Elisabeth Fischer: me. And I, you know, I just say thanks so much, really appreciate it. But the in the email is actually right underneath that in my inbox. Jill: I totally do that. 100%. Hundred percent. She didn't even take a beat. Katrina: So maybe attention to detail. I I love that Jill, she she didn't take a second. She like knew. Jill: She's like, let me tell you this thing. Okay, is that a generational thing? Do I do that because okay. Elisabeth Fischer: Absolutely. No, absolutely. My mom will send me things and say, Hey, did you see this? And I'm like, Yeah, you sent that to me on Instagram. You don't have to also text Jill: Ha ha Elisabeth Fischer: it to me. I already saw it. Or she thinks you know, tagging somebody and Jill: Mm. Elisabeth Fischer: sending it is different. So she'll tag me in the comments and then I'll like her comment and then she'll send it to me. And I'm like, I already Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: saw b you know, it's it is very generational to just make sure that somebody sees something and you d it's you know, it's fine. It's how it goes. Jill: That's so funny. You're so spot on. That is so funny. I love that so much. And I do love that you didn't even pause for one moment. that was good. Elisabeth Fischer: Other than that though, I I rarely find myself thinking, you know, like I don't understand how nobody knows how to do this, what's happening. So that's very good. That's the you know, that's might be the only thing that I'm ever like, okay, haha, no worries, got it. Jill: Let me placate the old people here. Yep, saw this Elisabeth Fischer: Another thing sometimes, typically okay, in Jill's defense, I did say Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: earlier today on our team meeting, I can do anything, I can figure it out. So that is totally fine. But sometimes Jill will be like, Hey, can you do this? And it's just not possible in the way that she asked me to do it. But that's not because that's not for lack of, you know, being oblivious, like, that's not a possible thing. It's just the way that she asked me to do it is not the possible way to make it happen. Like it has to be a whole automation sequence and then you have to trigger it with this and do that. It's not just like send Jill email when it's one o'clock it's like a whole, you know, replication thing inside of a CRM. And so Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: that is another generational thing that, you know, Jill: Yeah. Elisabeth Fischer: my my mom would be like, can you set it up so that when this happens, I just get a notificate. And I'm like, that's literally not how that works at all. There's so many other things that have to happen for that to work for you. Jill: It's so funny because I under I know exactly what you're talking about, and I know in my head, I'm like, whatever, I'll just tell Beth and then she'll figure out how to do it. Like I don't spend any time thinking about what it would take to get this done. I'm like Beth will figure it out. So that Elisabeth Fischer: Exactly. Jill: that's my bad. It's also you just being unbelievably resourceful and intelligent, so you do the figure it out. but you're right, that's totally an old person thing. Elisabeth Fischer: Well and you always accept you accept the answer I give you, which makes it completely harmless. It does become a problem when you explain why something can't happen or why you had to do it differently, and then the person who asks you is like, Well, that's not what I and then you know, that's when it's more of a like you're just being kind of an older person thing, but when you're you know, when you're willing to accept it and just say, perfect, that's just what I wanted, just not how I thought it would happen, whatever. That's totally that's you don't have to learn how to code an entire website to ask me to do something. I'll figure that out. Jill: I love this so much. This this might be my favorite conversation Katrina: So Jill: we've had, actually. Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah. Katrina: The it it's and it's a beautiful a beautiful opportunity for me to to step in and and say that you know one of the things that makes a good leader is the willingness to receive feedback. So Jill, well done there. Well done. Jill: thank you, thank you. Elisabeth Fischer: Yeah. Katrina: and so okay, Jill, we're as we wrap up, Jill: Okay. Katrina: what's what's the leadership moment for this session? Jill: I think the leadership moment that really stuck out to me was the first thing that Beth said, and you summarized it beautifully. But what I heard Beth say is you gotta figure out who we are as a human. And I do think that crosses every generational line. But Gen Z has been much better at actually communicating that. People in the workplace want to be seen as a human. And the more they are seen as a human, the more they will show up in their most authentic self, which ties to productivity. So it really does tie to workplace objectives. But that's the leadership moment. See people as a human. Get to know Figure out what's important to them. Katrina: And I think it's also if I can add on there, something Jill: Yeah. Katrina: that ThinkDov does well, because it's doesn't come naturally for everyone that there are leaders who need that support. They need to figure out how to maximize their communication, how to have those human moments. So thanks, Beth, Jill: Yeah, agreed. Katrina: for being here with us. Elisabeth Fischer: for having me. That was so fun. Jill: Thank you, Beth. That was so fun. I know. Katrina: We're we're gonna have you back because I think I think there's great opportunity here. We we have more to we have more to discuss. Jill: I agree. Elisabeth Fischer: I can't wait. Jill: I agree. Elisabeth Fischer: I can't wait. Jill: I agree. All right. Thanks, Beth. I will see you all next time on episode five. Bye.