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Sinners Is Delicious w/ Nathalie Francois & Diane Vee · The Delicious Culture with Jon Francois

• 0:00
  Hey, Delishies, grab a plate and feast on the
• 0:01
  delicious culture. I'm your host, Jon Francois.
• 0:03
  Oh my God, we are feasting on food, pop culture,
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  and the 16 Oscar nominated movie Sinners with
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  my sister, Natalie, who returns to us. You may
• 0:14
  have remembered she was on the Love is Blind
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  season nine recap episode. Hi, Natalie. Hi, everyone.
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  Hi, Delishies. I'm happy to be back. I know.
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  And that recap was like just a few weeks ago
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  and already they're doing the weddings episode
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  for season 10. I know. Yeah, and I recently saw
• 0:35
  you in Connecticut over the weekend when me and
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  my wife Tony went to visit to see some theater.
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  And yeah, you have not seen a season yet. No,
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  they keep coming out with these seasons like
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  nobody's business. And by the time I even catch
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  wind and have a second to breathe, they're already
• 0:53
  done with the season. Which, I mean, works for
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  the binge like Watcher and me. But still, it's
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  like, are they coming out faster? I just feel
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  like they are. They're coming out faster. Where
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  do they find these people so quickly? I don't
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  know. I mean, so I think this recent season came
• 1:06
  out around Valentine's Day, which... makes sense.
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  It's love is blind. I don't remember when season
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  nine came out, but yeah, it seems like they're
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  kind of doing it like Survivor where it's like
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  two or three seasons a year because, you know,
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  it's pretty easy to make these shows. You just
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  get a bunch of attention hungry people who want
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  love or maybe more so want social media influencer
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  type of attention. And then boom, you put them
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  in pods and you give them drama and there you
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  go. But for this season, it's okay. Like if you
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  get little bits of drama here and there, I will
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  say there seems to be a lot more chances for
• 1:43
  genuine love and successful marriages to happen
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  this season than last season. So in case you
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  do watch season 10, just look for a likelier
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  chance that people are happy. Okay. And I think
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  it's interesting because I was actually watching
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  something about dating in this day and age. Um,
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  and I think like shows like. Love is Blind and
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  Love Island definitely have an influence on dating.
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  So I'm very curious to see how this season is
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  compared to last season, but I think the overall
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  conversation that people might want to consider
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  is like, what has dating turned into? And why
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  are there so many people that are like not, they're
• 2:25
  afraid to commit? to marriage, but they like
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  sign up for shows like this, you know? Yeah,
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  yeah. I mean, all I have to say is I'm glad I'm
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  not dating in this age. Yeah, you're all set.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been married for
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  a few years, so I'm gladly off the market and
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  away from all that stress. But not only is Natalie
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  joining us, but her good friend Diane. Hello,
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  Diane. Hi, everyone. I'm glad to be on. It's
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  my first time. Yes. I was just thinking about
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  this. You, Natalie, and I guess myself as well,
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  we've known you for how long? 20 years? I stopped
• 3:03
  counting after 20. Yeah. I know you guys met
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  in elementary school, so that must have been
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  like 2002, 2003, 2004, something like that. Yeah.
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  A million years ago. And you two seem very like,
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  oh my God, how much time has passed by? What
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  the heck? Yeah. That's my bestie. Yes, that's
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  friends for life, soul sisters. I love it. All
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  right. Well, let's get into it. So let's start
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  with the food part. Natalie, how about you? We
• 3:32
  literally caught you in the middle of lunch,
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  even though it's like 5 40 p .m. Maybe what you
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  ate was a favorite meal you had in the past week,
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  or it could have been something else. What was
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  the delicious meal you had in the past week that
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  you liked? So I've been really obsessed with
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  like my breakfast. I work a lot, and my schedule
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  in the morning fluctuates. So there are many
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  mornings where I don't get to eat breakfast,
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  but I've been really committed to eating a solid
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  meal. And so I've been obsessed with my little
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  concoction of English muffin, peanut butter,
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  banana, and honey. That's been my jam. Yeah,
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  it's really simple, but trust me, if you haven't
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  tried... banana and peanut butter on an English
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  muffin. I do also put like a layer of butter
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  under the peanut butter. Yeah. And then drizzle
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  honey. If you haven't tried that, I highly recommend
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  it. There's protein, there's fruit, and then
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  you get your carbs. It's like so well balanced.
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  And it definitely helps me feel fueled for the
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  day. So that's what I've been obsessed with.
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  So is that something that you thought of on your
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  own? Is that like a sort of a recipe that you
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  found online? Like how did you discover that
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  whole combination of the English muffin and the
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  honey and the peanut butter and the banana? So
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  when I was like a barista back in the day, my
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  first job, we sold like bagels and everybody
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  would come in for the bagel sandwiches. But I
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  had this one customer that once put in an order
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  to have English muffin. We had bananas for sale
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  because we had bananas in our cafe. English muffin
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  banana, honey, and peanut butter. Just all together.
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  When I was making it, I was like, wow, this seems
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  like it would be really good. Who doesn't like
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  peanut? I know people are allergic, but peanut
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  butter is a staple. Even English muffins are
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  really, really good. I just decided to try it
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  and I fell in love, honestly. And now I'm getting
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  to the point where it's like, I'm not just doing
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  a Thomas English muffin. No, I'm doing a gourmet
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  English muffin. That's how serious I am about
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  it. Wait, define a gourmet English muffin. Is
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  a gourmet... Like, what are we talking about?
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  By size? By how healthy it is compared to a Thomas
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  English muffin? Like, what does it look like
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  and taste like compared to a Thomas? So like
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  Thomas, everybody in English muffin world, like
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  if you know of English muffins, and I love the
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  fact that I'm even talking about English muffins
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  like this, but the community of English muffin
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  lovers, we all know Thomas. That's like... the
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  one English muffin brand that comes to mind.
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  It's the McDonald's. It's the McDonald's of English
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  muffins. Yeah. Yeah. That's all like, like Diane
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  said, that's all sometimes people know of English
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  muffins, but I I changed from Thomas to this
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  local, locally sourced English muffin brand and
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  they only make English muffins. And they'll have
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  like different kinds of English muffins. So right
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  now in my like collection of English muffins
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  in the fridge, I have cinnamon raisin and I have,
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  it's like a garlic and herb English muffin. So
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  that's what I mean by gourmet. It's like locally
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  made. I think the people that make it... They're
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  like from mass. Don't quote me on that. Um, and
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  I wish I had the name. I would share it. Uh,
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  I promise I'm not gatekeeping, but, um, yeah,
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  like they just have different styles of English
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  muffins. So I've been really obsessed with their
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  cinnamon raisin and that's the English muffin
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  that I now use for my like banana, peanut butter,
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  honey concoction. But their plain is also really
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  good. And with their rosemary or no, their garlic
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  and herb, I've been using that for sandwiches.
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  And I've been obsessed with that too. That sounds
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  good. And is it filling? Cause I, I think of
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  like the, I mean, yes, you have the honey, you
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  have the peanut butter and the banana, but I
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  think of an English muffin and I think of the
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  size of an English muffin, unless I don't know.
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  I think Thomas came out with like the super sized
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  English muffins that I've seen like once or twice
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  in the grocery store. Like, um, is this a filling
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  kind of breakfast or is it more of like a tasty
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  kind of breakfast to you? Like, I, I'm, I'm wondering
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  if the English muffin might be too small if I,
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  if I, in case I wanted to try this. It's a good
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  point like I definitely especially when it comes
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  to like English muffin sandwiches I'll eat one
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  and then I'll be looking at my English muffins
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  like maybe I should make another sandwich but
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  when it comes to the breakfast it is filling
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  for me but only because like I also like eat
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  in segments so like I'll start with like a bowl
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  of fruit so I'll have a bowl of fruit first and
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  then like when it's actually time for me to eat
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  like breakfast when I'm fully hungry for breakfast,
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  that's when I'll have the English muffin. But
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  the fruit holds me down and sometimes I'll pair
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  it with a protein smoothie or something. I've
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  been really liking the Chobani protein smoothies.
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  and the Siggy's ones, so I'll have all of that
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  together. It's not gonna hold me down, like,
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  through lunch, so I definitely have to eat lunch,
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  but it is good for me in terms of, like, my portion
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  sizes. If you have, like, bigger portion sizes,
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  you might want to add in another English month.
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  Good to know. Good to know. Speaking of Shobani,
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  I like their protein yogurt drinks. I had to
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  stop drinking them because I would like drink
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  them like while I was Uber and Lyft driving.
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  I do that to pay the bills outside of this. And
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  I would go to the bathroom like maybe every hour
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  or so because the protein just like goes right
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  through me like nobody's business. But they are
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  good. So I will vouch for anything Shobani. Yeah,
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  those are the exact ones I have. Yeah, yeah.
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  Diane, what about you? Favorite delicious meal
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  that you've had in the past week? I would say
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  I had a really good Rasta Pasta kind of dish
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  from AA1 Grab and Go. They're really, really
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  good. They're a local business here in Hartford.
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  And so they do a lot for the community. So I'm
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  really proud to shout them out. But I had a really
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  good pasta dish from them. I'm craving for next
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  weekend. Rasta Pasta. What is Rasta Pasta? Why
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  is it called that? Like, what is it shaped like?
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  What does it taste like? Like, what's - It's
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  like, maybe Nat would describe it better than
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  I can, because I just know it to be like a creamy
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  pasta with cooked veg, like peppers, and you
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  can pick a protein with it. So I like to stick
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  with oxtail, but you can put jerk chicken with
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  it, salmon, and it's just so, it's so yummy.
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  If you like mac and cheese, you'll probably love
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  rasta pasta. Okay. Okay. I mean, because you
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  had mentioned Oxtail and already I'm thinking
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  like, is there like a Afro -Caribbean or Jamaican
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  sort of influence in the pasta? It's a Caribbean.
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  Yep. It's a West Indian dish for sure. I think
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  Jamaicans. It's a standard Jamaican dish. Yeah.
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  Oh God. Okay. And where is it again? What's the
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  place? 881 Grab and Go in Hartford. They're on
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  New Britain apps. And how are the portion sizes?
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  Like pretty good? They're good. Yeah. It surprises
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  you because you think that their to -go boxes
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  are pretty small, but they fill that up to the
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  brim, like even more so. So it like, anytime
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  I tell anybody to go, they immediately think
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  they should order like maybe that in a side because
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  they don't just serve roste pasta. They serve
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  other Caribbean dishes, but Any single dish that
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  you have, you'll be surprised at how filling
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  it is. I can never finish a whole plate from
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  them, but I am also a small person. How did you
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  find this? Word of mouth that you discovered
• 11:34
  on your own? I would say word of mouth. Again,
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  they're really involved with the community. They
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  do catering for certain events. I know they recently
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  did a Juneteenth event for West Hartford Teen
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  Center. So, word of mouth, I would say. God,
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  that's so delicious. Yeah, no, no, I'm just having
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  like a mix of thoughts when you're describing
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  the rasta pasta and the oxtail and whatnot. The
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  first thought was when Tony and I were... in
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  Connecticut over the recent weekend to see some
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  theater at the Bushnell in Hartford. We went
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  to this place called Celu, which is an Italian
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  restaurant. And they had like this pasta with
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  vodka sauce, which is great. I don't know. There's
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  just something about like when you see like pasta
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  and vodka sauce on a menu that you think, oh.
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  If you are a specialty Italian cuisine restaurant
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  and you serve that, it's going to be good. And
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  they did not disappoint. So that's what I was
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  thinking of when you were thinking of the Rasta
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  pasta. And then I was also thinking of like the
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  Afro Caribbean place that we went to in Manchester,
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  New Hampshire, when we went there for Halloween.
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  Like we went to see a bunch of Halloween attractions
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  and there was this like really small Afro Caribbean
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  spot of this wonderful woman with this hair net.
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  I mean, she seemed like, I don't know, mom with
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  like five or six kids and she just has this small
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  mom and pop business and she serves like the
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  the best beans and jerk chicken and mac and cheese
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  and just really like um i don't know home grown
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  oh multicultural ethnic cuisine kind of thing
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  so i i gotta go to i gotta go to this rasta pasta
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  place that you're talking about it's it's it
• 13:11
  sounds really delightful ah there's more than
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  just that too we should definitely go get some
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  rasta pasta when you can get yeah How about pop
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  culture? Natalie, what is a delicious TV show,
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  a movie, play, music, book, anything that you're
• 13:29
  consuming lately that you are loving? So for
• 13:34
  the delicious that don't know, I am actually
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  participating in Lent right now. And one of my
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  things that I gave up was streaming services.
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  So. My, my like pop culture right now has been
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  dwindled down to like YouTube. And that is arguably
• 13:51
  some, some may say like I'm cheating by even
• 13:55
  still using YouTube. CJ was our brother. He would
• 14:00
  say that I'm cheating. So yeah, I have really
• 14:03
  been enjoying two different. channels on YouTube.
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  One is John Oliver. I love John Oliver. John
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  Oliver is hilarious, great way to get like information
• 14:17
  that's not depressing. Only mildly depressing
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  with some laughs. But like he definitely balances
• 14:24
  out with the laughs. But then also, this was
• 14:27
  actually a recommendation from Diane. There is
• 14:31
  this YouTuber called FDSignifier and I've been
• 14:34
  also watching some of his videos. He has a format
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  where he's like, it's like video essays. So he
• 14:43
  takes a topic, usually a pop culture topic, and
• 14:45
  he kind of breaks it down and looks at like the
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  social and societal impacts and all of that.
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  He's a really well -spoken, educated creator
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  on YouTube. and he's got some really interesting
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  stuff. So I've been enjoying that. Actually,
• 15:02
  one video that he recently posted that I watched,
• 15:06
  I had to watch it in segments, but it was his
• 15:09
  Tyler Perry breakdown. He took Tyler Perry and
• 15:13
  Tyler Perry's whole success story and everything
• 15:16
  and just kind of dove really deep in Tyler Perry,
• 15:21
  his acting, his... his stories that he shows
• 15:26
  in the movies, his history, all of that, and
• 15:29
  just where Tyler Perry is now, and how he's influenced
• 15:33
  Black culture and Black... Women, especially
• 15:36
  because that's his primary audience. So I've
• 15:38
  been really enjoying him as well. God. All right.
• 15:41
  So a couple of thoughts. So first of all, what's
• 15:42
  this YouTuber that you recommended? I got to,
• 15:44
  I got to make sure I looked them up. I know you're
• 15:47
  going to like that Tyler Perry video. I promise
• 15:49
  you. Cause you know, Tyler Perry was in our household.
• 15:54
  Yeah. What's the YouTuber's name again? F .D.
• 15:59
  Signifier. F .D. Signifier. Okay. I got to look
• 16:01
  up F .D. Signifier on YouTube. Yeah. So AJ Vandertound,
• 16:05
  who used to co -host on this podcast, him and
• 16:07
  I, I mean, there must've been like five or six
• 16:09
  times where we were talking about Tyler Perry
• 16:11
  and it's... God, like what, what do you say?
• 16:15
  Because like I've always loved like his come
• 16:18
  up life story. Like he has an inspiring story
• 16:21
  about coming from being a survivor of abuse and
• 16:24
  just a tough home life to producing the theater
• 16:27
  productions of Madea and whatnot and Atlanta
• 16:30
  and the chitlin circuit, and then moving on up
• 16:31
  to the movies. So great story, but there's, there's
• 16:35
  been some criticism, certainly within some in
• 16:38
  the black community, such as myself, that there
• 16:40
  is a. How should, how shall we say a certain,
• 16:45
  certain stereotype, a certain not well thought
• 16:48
  out in terms of creative writing in his, in his
• 16:52
  shows and movies. I mean, objectively, he's still
• 16:54
  successful. I mean, if you look at his stuff
• 16:56
  on Netflix, it's still trends and tops well.
• 16:59
  So his audience is still loving what he has,
• 17:01
  but at the same time it's like, well, he is the
• 17:04
  only one writing his content. He is known for
• 17:07
  not doing maybe one or. I mean, he tops, he does
• 17:11
  maybe like no more than one or two takes on his
• 17:14
  shows and movies and it shows. He's just kind
• 17:17
  of like, all right, let's just get it quick.
• 17:19
  Let's get it quick. Let's not really like flesh
• 17:21
  out or get into substance too well on story.
• 17:24
  Let's just kind of, you know, speed things up
• 17:26
  and move it along. Yeah, he's, he's, he's conflicting.
• 17:29
  And of course, you know, with the sexual assault
• 17:30
  allegations that came out, it just makes him
• 17:32
  an even more conflicting figure. So I don't know.
• 17:34
  I definitely want to look at that video essay
• 17:36
  because I wonder, like, is he just kind of taking
• 17:39
  a sort of objective journalist perspective? Is
• 17:44
  he taking a fan perspective? Is he taking like
• 17:47
  a balanced critical perspective on Tyler Perry?
• 17:49
  Can you give me that sort of hint? Yeah, I think
• 17:52
  you hit it with the last one. I think it's more
• 17:54
  so a balanced... political perspective, but also
• 17:58
  like something about the video that he mentions
• 18:02
  is that it was kind of hard for him to figure
• 18:04
  out how to address this because there wasn't
• 18:07
  a lot of inspiration for him. And usually if
• 18:09
  you watch his videos, like he's a very knowledgeable
• 18:13
  person on YouTube. He's got a PhD, like he's
• 18:17
  very educated and it's clear that pop culture
• 18:20
  is something of a passion for him to kind of
• 18:22
  like break open and explore. But with Tyler...
• 18:25
  he was a little bit stuck and I think like that
• 18:28
  kind of shows maybe that it's not you're not
• 18:31
  he's not giving you like the fan perspective
• 18:33
  that's for sure also I think like Tyler Perry
• 18:36
  in and of himself is just kind of like such a
• 18:40
  massive thing to break arc because it's it feels
• 18:43
  like yesterday when diary the mad black woman
• 18:46
  came out yeah but it was like years ago This
• 18:51
  man has been around us forever. And yes, his
• 18:54
  come up story is great, but then there is like
• 18:57
  questions about his sexuality. It's such a complex
• 18:59
  thing. that I can understand like being the type
• 19:03
  of person that puts out content, like video essays,
• 19:06
  it being hard to really break it apart. And that's
• 19:08
  one of the reasons why I feel like the video
• 19:11
  itself is so long. It's four hours. So there's
• 19:13
  a lot of content in there and he breaks it up
• 19:16
  into different sections, like an essay. So you
• 19:19
  don't have to necessarily watch it chronologically.
• 19:22
  You can just click on a certain chapter in like
• 19:25
  the bar. I don't know the time, whatever it is,
• 19:28
  but like you can click on certain chapters, actually
• 19:30
  in the description, that's where he has them
• 19:31
  too. You can click on the description chapters
• 19:34
  and jump to the timestamps. You can jump to the
• 19:42
  Tyler Perry points that really interest you the
• 19:46
  most, or you can watch it full on, you can bring
• 19:49
  it up like I did into a few days. But the information
• 19:54
  that he provides is very... I think it's really
• 19:57
  interesting and I think it does shed light on
• 20:00
  a figure that has been so prominent in pop culture
• 20:04
  that definitely has like, you know, the population
• 20:08
  of African American women that are Christians
• 20:11
  wrapped around his finger. main population. I
• 20:15
  think it's really interesting to like bring all
• 20:17
  of that up to light, especially since he is still
• 20:19
  producing these films and it's still out there.
• 20:22
  He will keep coming out with more movies. So
• 20:25
  I think like with all media, you should criticize
• 20:29
  this. And I think FD did a really good job. All
• 20:31
  right. And yeah, John Oliver, I mean, I've watched
• 20:34
  John Oliver since he was on The Daily Show. And
• 20:38
  then now, of course, he's had success with his
• 20:40
  own show on HBO last week tonight. Although,
• 20:42
  like, I'm not... in love with the show itself
• 20:46
  and his personality within the show. It's just
• 20:49
  not my cup of tea. Every now and then there will
• 20:52
  be a think piece that he does that is interesting
• 20:55
  and fascinating to see. I can objectively say
• 20:58
  that he is obviously very well researched. He
• 21:01
  knows what he's talking about. A lot of prep
• 21:02
  goes into those episodes. I had mentioned that
• 21:05
  he did a great episode on Chuck E. Cheese and
• 21:08
  the background behind that franchise. So that
• 21:10
  was really fascinating to see. I like him in
• 21:12
  interviews. There's been a lot of late night
• 21:14
  talk show interviews with John Oliver that I've
• 21:16
  seen, and he did like a podcast with a lot of
• 21:20
  other late night hosts during the Hollywood actor
• 21:23
  and writer's strike back in like 2023 called
• 21:25
  Strike Force 5, which was entertaining. Yeah,
• 21:28
  I've seen John Oliver in bits and pieces here
• 21:29
  and there, and he's been an interesting watch.
• 21:33
  Thank you for those recommendations. And Diane,
• 21:37
  before we get to your stuff, did you, it seemed
• 21:39
  like you had some thoughts about Tyler Perry.
• 21:42
  I think you were kind of nodding along or anything
• 21:44
  you want to contribute to that end. I actually
• 21:48
  just had watched the Tyler Perry video essay
• 21:51
  that FD. posted and I like as many were actually
• 21:55
  quick side note before FD posted that he was
• 21:58
  going to make a Tyler Perry video. He actually
• 22:00
  kind of transitioned from a sinners. review that
• 22:05
  he had posted going into then the Tyler Perry
• 22:08
  discussion. And reason being is because you think
• 22:11
  about a figure like Tyler Perry and just how
• 22:14
  powerful he is. He has his own studio. You think
• 22:17
  of like Warner Brothers, they have a studio.
• 22:19
  You think of Disney and how they have a studio.
• 22:21
  So it makes you wonder a powerful black figure
• 22:25
  having this, having the capabilities of maybe
• 22:27
  putting something out there that could be. um,
• 22:30
  a disruption with everything that's going on
• 22:33
  in the world right now. Um, but chooses not to
• 22:36
  use that power. And so FD kind of wants, like
• 22:40
  uses his video to highlight that, um, that Tyler
• 22:42
  Perry has this power and we, we might not really
• 22:46
  understand the, like how powerful he is, um,
• 22:48
  in pop culture, but he, he chooses to not really
• 22:52
  do much with that, um, in terms of making a disruption
• 22:55
  and making a statement where when we... get into
• 22:58
  centers in our discussion, we can talk about
• 23:00
  like little things that we see Ryan Coogler actively
• 23:04
  do to kind of not only bring a different light
• 23:08
  when it comes to black media, black cinema, but
• 23:12
  how impactful would it be if like Ryan Coogler
• 23:16
  or even thinking of somebody who is prominent,
• 23:20
  a director. Like Spike. Spike Lee. Spike Lee,
• 23:25
  like if he and Tyler Perry, having Tyler Perry
• 23:29
  Studios as a backup, put something out there
• 23:32
  that really, really just makes a bold statement,
• 23:35
  how impactful that would be. But I mean, you
• 23:38
  don't see Spike Lee and Tyler Perry have always
• 23:40
  kind of had this like feud. And now they no longer
• 23:43
  have that, but it was there. And I think Spike
• 23:45
  Lee was always kind of very radical with his
• 23:48
  approach in his films, whereas Tyler Perry wasn't.
• 23:53
  Yeah. I think I know what you're saying. Spike
• 23:55
  Lee with, I mean, you take a film like do the
• 23:58
  right thing. Malcolm X. Malcolm X. Yeah, exactly.
• 24:02
  Like you think of Spike Lee and you think, okay,
• 24:04
  this guy has something to say about being black
• 24:07
  in America, sort of the social and political
• 24:10
  realities of that. Tyler Perry can certainly
• 24:15
  talk about black culture as it pertains to like
• 24:21
  the church. And... That's it. Well, yeah, yeah,
• 24:26
  like the shirt, like, it's like... And then you
• 24:28
  think about what the messaging is, right? Right.
• 24:30
  When he does portray the shirt. You know, he
• 24:34
  knows his audience and he knows what he's discussing.
• 24:37
  Like what message is he sending out to these
• 24:39
  folks? Yeah. Like if you want like commentary
• 24:42
  about like, oh, this is how black people are
• 24:44
  at the church or at the barbecue, or this is
• 24:47
  how they joke with each other at the house. Like
• 24:49
  you go to Tyler Perry and then you go to Spike
• 24:51
  Lee and to some extent, Ryan Coogler. If you
• 24:54
  want them to say a powerful statement about what
• 24:58
  it is to be. black slash person of color in America
• 25:01
  today. And also like they can still find a way
• 25:03
  to entertain you. So yeah, I now, now I'm really
• 25:06
  more fascinated about this video essay because
• 25:08
  I didn't even think about that until now. It's
• 25:09
  like, Oh yeah. I don't know if Tyler Perry really
• 25:11
  has said anything. Bold in his content in terms
• 25:16
  of the realities of the harsh realities as a
• 25:19
  black person I think he does have this very escapist
• 25:22
  content when it comes to what he produces that
• 25:24
  that appeals to To to black people black women
• 25:28
  especially so yeah, that's a very very good point
• 25:31
  Your pop culture Diane what's what's a TV show
• 25:35
  movie play music book anything anything that
• 25:37
  you're that you're loving lately so similar to
• 25:40
  now I'm also participating in kind of cleansing
• 25:43
  from. So, so, so what, what is the whole, um,
• 25:53
  okay, before we get into your, your, your thing,
• 25:56
  uh, and, and Natalie, please follow up with this.
• 25:59
  Uh, why are we, I mean, I mean, it seems, I mean,
• 26:02
  it seems like a simple answer, but why, why are
• 26:05
  we partaking with Lent? Because obviously the
• 26:07
  implication of Lent is just kind of giving yourself
• 26:09
  a temporary cleanse from. Whatever you consume
• 26:13
  on a regular basis that maybe you think is not
• 26:16
  healthy for you Like what is lens something that
• 26:19
  you guys are just getting into this year or have
• 26:21
  you done it every year? Like what's the whole
• 26:23
  thing Diane you first? I actually have never
• 26:25
  done it before this my first year and that actually
• 26:28
  gave me the idea of doing it because our good
• 26:30
  friend Chanel has been doing I think yearly and
• 26:33
  so it was for me the purpose is to kind of challenge
• 26:37
  myself to Get away from three things that I typically
• 26:40
  kind of lean on or, or maybe even depend on sometimes
• 26:44
  to kind of have this escapism. Um, so my three
• 26:48
  things are alcohol, cannabis, and social media.
• 26:52
  Um, so I've been off of those and I will continue,
• 26:55
  I think it's April 4th or April 2nd. Um, correct
• 26:57
  me if I'm wrong Nat, take a second. So yeah,
• 27:00
  and that's my purpose for it though. Natalie?
• 27:04
  Yeah, it's similar. I think, like, the poll for
• 27:08
  me, one, I do want to say that, like, we are
• 27:12
  participating in, like, the abstinence part of
• 27:15
  Lent. So anybody that's actually participating
• 27:18
  in Lent because of, like, their Catholic faith,
• 27:21
  I apologize if this is offensive. But I really,
• 27:25
  like, respect some of the discipline. that religion
• 27:30
  can bring. And this is one of those things that
• 27:32
  it really pushes you to consider like, what is
• 27:35
  it that you have access to? What are you leaning
• 27:37
  on? What are your vices? And if you take those
• 27:40
  away, like, how does that change you? I think
• 27:43
  that because we live in such a country of like,
• 27:47
  affluence, we don't sometimes realize how many
• 27:51
  things we have access to that other people don't.
• 27:55
  And we don't realize how many things can be used
• 27:59
  as a vice without even thinking that it's a vice.
• 28:02
  So I think practicing moderation whenever you
• 28:06
  can is super healthy for you. And for me, it's
• 28:10
  really just building that discipline, having
• 28:12
  control over like things that are my external
• 28:16
  stimuli that I can have access to and use or
• 28:20
  overuse, like having control over that, but also
• 28:23
  paying respect to the fact that these things
• 28:26
  come every year. It's not only Lent. This is
• 28:28
  also the season of Ramadan as well. So, like,
• 28:32
  there is this sense of really connecting to yourself.
• 28:37
  At least that's how I'm feeling. It's like reconnecting
• 28:39
  to myself and reframing or reestablishing where
• 28:44
  some of my vices might be. So, yeah. How long
• 28:48
  does Lent usually last? 40 days and 40 nights.
• 28:52
  Oh, really? Literally? Cause I was like, like
• 29:00
  in something like lent to a dry January where
• 29:04
  it's like, all right, like you're going to swear
• 29:06
  off of this thing, but for temporary period of
• 29:09
  time. And what happens when that period of time
• 29:13
  ends? Like, are you just going to kind of go
• 29:15
  back to where you were before? Is it going to
• 29:17
  teach you like. Consuming these things in moderation.
• 29:21
  I don't know. I mean personally for me I'm like
• 29:23
  if you say for social media or whatever YouTube
• 29:26
  like if it's something where it's like, alright
• 29:28
  I want to dial it down or Swear it off my life
• 29:32
  like wholeheartedly. That's something that I
• 29:35
  would prefer to do like permanently rather than
• 29:40
  Oh, I'm going to do it for this like 30 or 40
• 29:42
  day stretch of time. So I don't know. That's
• 29:45
  just fascinating to me. Like this idea of like,
• 29:47
  here's this like certain block of time where
• 29:50
  you are swearing off these things. And then once
• 29:53
  that block of time is over, what happens? Is
• 29:56
  it just going to be kind of a cycle where you
• 29:58
  kind of go back to like, oh, full force, like
• 30:00
  social media and YouTube and blah, blah, blah,
• 30:01
  blah, blah. And then you do the 30, 40 day thing
• 30:03
  again. Like, yeah, the end game is, is what's,
• 30:07
  what's fascinating to me about that. I think
• 30:08
  that's fair. I feel like when it comes to this,
• 30:12
  even if you are going to return to whatever it
• 30:15
  is that you were doing before, at least you gave
• 30:18
  yourself the opportunity to maybe change your
• 30:20
  mind about that or, or find other things to fill
• 30:24
  in that time. Like I'm hoping, still hoping that
• 30:27
  with this Lent, I will. Like read more right
• 30:32
  now. I'm like filling my streaming service needs
• 30:35
  with YouTube So I haven't gotten to the point
• 30:38
  where I'm that desperate That I'm like not that
• 30:41
  you have to be desperate to get to the book But
• 30:43
  like I haven't gotten to the point where I'm
• 30:45
  so bored of YouTube that I've moved on to reading
• 30:49
  but like I am Noticing these things with myself.
• 30:53
  I'm noticing in this actively. This is now two
• 30:56
  weeks that we've been doing lunch and I know
• 30:59
  for me, I noticed that even something like streaming
• 31:02
  services, I was using that as a vice to distract
• 31:07
  from things that I could have been doing in that
• 31:09
  time. So at the end of it, even if you go back,
• 31:14
  you do have like information on yourself that
• 31:17
  can be really helpful so that you can better
• 31:19
  understand yourself. And that's like the whole
• 31:21
  point of like... Being here is better understanding
• 31:25
  yourself as you continue to grow. So that's how
• 31:27
  I'm taking it Will I be jumping right back onto
• 31:30
  Netflix on April 2nd? Probably Probably But I
• 31:36
  will also know that like I have used Netflix
• 31:39
  to like avoid certain things because now I'm
• 31:42
  not Avoiding those things because I don't have
• 31:44
  Netflix to avoid those things with you know,
• 31:46
  yes Yeah. Certainly using, I don't know, I mean,
• 31:51
  scrolling through your phone, whether it be comforting
• 31:53
  YouTube video or just a Facebook post that you
• 31:56
  would rather see than dealing with the hard things
• 32:00
  in your everyday life. I totally can relate to
• 32:03
  that. Um, I'm sorry, Diane, we, we did not get
• 32:06
  to your pop culture. So, okay. Maybe was it maybe
• 32:10
  not anything during Lent, but it could be something
• 32:12
  before you partake in Lent. Like just anything
• 32:15
  that comes to mind that you're like, oh my God,
• 32:18
  I would recommend this to a friend. Yeah. Um,
• 32:22
  so I, I've been on FD since before I even went
• 32:27
  on Lent. So FD is. another one, but Little Bill
• 32:30
  is a YouTuber who I also follow. He does video
• 32:33
  essays. What? No, no, no, no. I thought you I
• 32:37
  thought you meant the Nick Jr. animated series,
• 32:41
  Little Bill. I was like, oh, we're just randomly
• 32:44
  watching a Nick Jr. show from like 1999 or whatever.
• 32:51
  Don't get me wrong. I mean, I thought Little
• 32:53
  Bill was a cute show back in the day. Oh, my
• 32:57
  God. That's that's that would have been a very
• 32:59
  interesting thing to talk about. Anyway, sorry.
• 33:00
  Go ahead. Little Bill. No, it's okay. I couldn't
• 33:03
  help but the face. I was like, do you No, Little
• 33:06
  Bill from YouTube. So FD plugs him a lot. So
• 33:09
  it made me super curious to watch him. And given
• 33:12
  that we're now doing this one thing, I'm not
• 33:15
  doing streaming services, but I was never really
• 33:17
  on streaming services. Oh, I shouldn't say never.
• 33:20
  I should say I... been off of it for quite some
• 33:23
  time. But little Bill is a YouTube creator who
• 33:26
  also kind of touches on certain pop culture topics,
• 33:29
  kind of leftist theories as well. That is, it
• 33:33
  goes hand in hand with FDs. And then I'm also
• 33:35
  indulging on Mark Lamont Hill's YouTube channel.
• 33:39
  That's where I'm getting my media because social
• 33:41
  media was how I got my news. And so I feel so
• 33:45
  out the loop, but Mark Lamont Hill is constantly
• 33:48
  keeping me posted as to what's going on in the
• 33:50
  world. down to Epstein files to like the war
• 33:53
  in Iran right now. So those are two. And I'm
• 33:56
  also because of FD, I've gotten into the autobiography
• 34:00
  of Malcolm X and this is an audible that I'm
• 34:04
  listening to. So still new to it. Spike Lee's
• 34:07
  Malcolm X. I watched that film, rewatched it,
• 34:10
  I would say recently kind of having now this
• 34:12
  new lens on Malcolm. from FD's videos, and Little
• 34:17
  Bill's videos, because they both heavily kind
• 34:18
  of speak on Malcolm X. Having rewatched Malcolm
• 34:23
  X, Spike Lee's film, and now gotten me fascinated
• 34:27
  to want to get into the Audible, it's really
• 34:30
  hard for me to get into literature. So Audible
• 34:33
  has been like my best friend. But yeah. My attention
• 34:36
  span has been shot down to hell when it comes
• 34:39
  to like physically reading a book. I can't, I
• 34:41
  can't do it anymore. And I hate that, but it's
• 34:43
  just like the way that, you know, my life is
• 34:46
  going just working long hours and doing this
• 34:48
  podcast and doing theater stuff. It's like...
• 34:50
  You know, yeah, I'm with you. I mean, especially
• 34:53
  when I'm driving, if I have to consume a book,
• 34:56
  it's, it's much more easy to consume it as an
• 34:59
  audio book than actually physically reading a
• 35:02
  book. And I miss those days because I do remember
• 35:04
  the time that I would be, was able to spend like
• 35:07
  actually opening a book and reading it through
• 35:11
  and, and actually being fascinated and interested
• 35:13
  by what I was reading. What the hell was I thinking
• 35:17
  of? Oh, yeah, yeah. Malcolm X. I watched that
• 35:22
  movie in college. And I watched it on video tape.
• 35:28
  Natalie, remember that small TV that I had with
• 35:29
  the VCR attached to it that I would bring it
• 35:32
  to the college? Yeah. Where is it? I want it.
• 35:34
  I think I broke it. Yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah,
• 35:36
  yeah. I dropped it on the ground accidentally
• 35:38
  and it just, it's no more. It doesn't exist anymore.
• 35:43
  But yeah, I watched Malcolm X then. I definitely
• 35:45
  have to re -watch it again because it's one of
• 35:46
  those movies, like pretty much anything Denzel
• 35:49
  does. It's like, you want to like... randomly
• 35:51
  watch YouTube highlights of it because it's just
• 35:54
  that good. I mean, he should have won the Oscar
• 35:58
  for that for that movie, but he did not. I don't
• 36:01
  know if you guys saw this movie Scent of a Woman.
• 36:05
  You've heard of it? No. So Al Pacino was in it
• 36:09
  and he won the Oscar for that, but he clearly
• 36:12
  did not need to. It was a movie where he basically
• 36:14
  did an impression of, God, what's that Looney
• 36:17
  Tunes character, that big chicken. Oh, well,
• 36:19
  Foghorn Leghorn. So if you, I know, I mean, he
• 36:22
  wasn't intending to do an impression of Foghorn
• 36:24
  Leghorn, but the character that he plays just
• 36:27
  ends up sounding like that. And the fact that
• 36:29
  that won the Oscar over Malcolm X is just a crime.
• 36:35
  Yeah. on purpose. Oh yeah, heavily on purpose
• 36:38
  because Denzel won his Oscar for a training day
• 36:41
  and he played a crook cop. So you give this really
• 36:46
  well black man who's an actor an Oscar for that,
• 36:50
  but you don't give him for Malcolm X that says
• 36:52
  something to me. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. It's,
• 36:55
  it's definitely creates a conversation. Like,
• 36:57
  Oh, like this. I mean, yes, you know, Malcolm
• 37:00
  X was controversial, but, uh, he certainly was
• 37:04
  a role model in some aspect in terms of like
• 37:07
  fighting for black people. And that would have
• 37:11
  been a great thing to get an Oscar for, but Denzel
• 37:13
  and look, he was great in training day. I loved
• 37:15
  it. Uh, but yeah, I mean, I think it does say
• 37:18
  something when, uh, the Oscars committee, which
• 37:20
  is probably like this largely white sort of foreign
• 37:23
  body of people, they say, Oh, Hey, look at this
• 37:26
  negative black stereotype. for that because you
• 37:29
  played that so well instead of maybe a more positive
• 37:33
  role model. So who knows? That debate will be
• 37:36
  happening for years to come. But thank you. Thank
• 37:40
  you so much for that heads up, Diane. Oh my god,
• 37:44
  now you're making me want to watch Malcolm X.
• 37:47
  I really want that. I really want that in my
• 37:51
  life. So this is normally the lifestyle section
• 37:57
  of the podcast, but we are going to reserve it
• 37:59
  for sinners because it is just that great. The
• 38:02
  movie is the most Oscar nominated movie in history.
• 38:06
  16 Oscar nominations. I mean, you name it, they
• 38:09
  got nominated for it. Best director for Ryan
• 38:11
  Coogler, best actor for Michael B. Jordan. I
• 38:14
  know Delroy Lindo got a best supporting actor
• 38:16
  nomination. Haley Steinfeld got a nomination
• 38:19
  for her performance as what is her character's
• 38:23
  name? Mary, the ex -girlfriend of Stack. So,
• 38:29
  you've watched the movie four times, Natalie?
• 38:32
  Mm -hmm, sure did. Wow. And I mean, I guess for
• 38:37
  the two people listening or watching this that
• 38:40
  may have not seen Sinners, I'll just briefly
• 38:43
  describe it. You know, Michael B. Jordan plays
• 38:46
  these twins who originally come from Mississippi
• 38:49
  and they move up north of Chicago. They make
• 38:52
  some money doing, I believe, some like sketchy
• 38:55
  mob stuff. And they come back with their sketchy
• 38:58
  mob money to Mississippi to open this black friendly
• 39:02
  blue soul juke joint. And it's not so easy when
• 39:07
  they come back because they're met with white
• 39:09
  vampires who want to take the, the, the, the
• 39:13
  black juke joint culture of it all. So Natalie,
• 39:16
  let's start with you four times. Holy crap. Why,
• 39:21
  I mean, maybe a silly question to ask because
• 39:22
  Sinners is an awesome movie, but how, why is
• 39:25
  it, how is it that awesome that you, that you
• 39:27
  wanted to watch it four times? Were you watching
• 39:29
  it just purely like, Oh my God, this is so entertaining.
• 39:31
  I got to watch it over and over again. Or were
• 39:33
  you watching it to like find meanings or things
• 39:37
  that you may have not seen like the previous
• 39:39
  watches? Well, I think like before, cause we,
• 39:41
  we had agreed that we were going to do the podcast
• 39:45
  on Sinners and so that really motivated the second
• 39:49
  two watches to make sure that like I really knew.
• 39:53
  The movie the way that I I wanted to like express
• 39:56
  because it is a great movie So the first two
• 39:59
  times I watched I just watched it those first
• 40:01
  two times because I wanted to um, I think one
• 40:05
  it was literally like I just had plans with two
• 40:08
  different people and they both wanted to watch
• 40:10
  dinner so I ended up watching it twice the first
• 40:13
  two times but the second two times I definitely
• 40:15
  did it intentionally because Yeah, 16 oscar nominations
• 40:20
  is epic um, and I think every single one of those
• 40:25
  are deserved. But yeah, so like I watched it
• 40:31
  the third time to kind of reconnect with the
• 40:34
  movie because it had been since it was out in
• 40:37
  theaters, since last time I had watched it after,
• 40:40
  yeah. It was the theaters, and then I watched
• 40:43
  it the third time to prepare for this. But then
• 40:45
  the fourth time, I really wanted to see if I
• 40:47
  picked up on anything that I missed, any small
• 40:51
  things, because it is such a, it's a fully packed
• 40:53
  movie. Ryan Coogler does such a great job. And
• 40:56
  every time you do watch it, at least for me,
• 40:59
  I noticed certain things. So, like, the first
• 41:03
  time that you see Michael B. Jordan. Ugh. Beautiful.
• 41:07
  I love the fact that they panned. So you thought
• 41:10
  there was one, but then you see that there's
• 41:13
  two. So immediately I'm like, what's better than
• 41:16
  one Michael B. Jordan? Two Michael B. Jordans,
• 41:19
  obviously. But like, I was really fascinated
• 41:22
  by like the technique that Michael B. Jordan
• 41:26
  had to use to switch from Smoke who's a much
• 41:30
  more like hardcore, a little bit more of a curmudgeon.
• 41:34
  Stoic. Yeah, stoic to the little like light -hearted
• 41:39
  kind of like fun stack, you know? I thought that
• 41:43
  was really interesting and I was super fascinated
• 41:45
  in that first scene where, I don't know if you
• 41:49
  guys remember this, but like smoke is looking
• 41:51
  for a cigarette. Stack like pulls out the cigarette,
• 41:55
  gives it to smoke, lights the cigarette, smokes
• 41:58
  it, passes it to stack, then they pass it back
• 42:01
  to each other. And I was just like, wow. Michael
• 42:04
  B. Jordan just passed himself the same cigarette
• 42:07
  twice. On the screen? 20 takes of that scene.
• 42:11
  They did 20 takes of that scene. Wow. Because,
• 42:13
  I mean, as you can imagine, Michael B. Jordan,
• 42:14
  he's playing two people, so he had to shoot each
• 42:17
  scene twice. One as like, one with like a body
• 42:20
  double, and then the other one, like where he's
• 42:22
  playing the other brother. I was looking at a
• 42:23
  Hollywood Reporter article, like they were breaking
• 42:25
  down the scene. Yeah, it was like the most complicated,
• 42:29
  demanding scene to do, because on top of like
• 42:31
  trying to like get it so precise, like the timing
• 42:35
  of the passing of the cigarette to make it friendly
• 42:37
  for... 20 takes and it was literally like the
• 42:40
  hottest day in Louisiana. It was so hot that
• 42:43
  the crew members, they had like these ice water
• 42:46
  towels draped over their shoulders that dried
• 42:50
  up within seconds. So you have that hot, humidity,
• 42:55
  disgustingness while you're trying to get this
• 42:57
  precise thing and you're doing 20 versions of
• 43:00
  it. So yeah, I mean, it's, it's a great, it's
• 43:03
  a great scene. And he did that in two. three
• 43:06
  pea suits and a hat that's just insane so like
• 43:10
  I really enjoyed re -watching that scene and
• 43:14
  watching this, like, impossible thing happen
• 43:17
  before my eyes. There's only one Michael B. Jordan.
• 43:20
  But they made two Michael B. Jordans, and they
• 43:24
  made them pass a cigarette back and forth. And
• 43:26
  that was just so, like, I know that that probably,
• 43:29
  and you just mentioned it, that probably took
• 43:31
  so much time. And small things like that. He
• 43:33
  didn't have to say a single word in that scene,
• 43:36
  which I don't think he really did. I think it
• 43:37
  was just the passing of the cigarette. Until,
• 43:40
  like... like, whoever came to make the deal.
• 43:43
  But, like, that, those little moments between
• 43:46
  Michael B. Jordan and Michael B. Jordan were
• 43:49
  so practical to me. Because it's like, wow, this
• 43:53
  must have taken such, like, the technical difficulty
• 43:56
  of it all, I imagine, is, is awesome. So, there's
• 44:01
  that, but also the fact that he is playing twin
• 44:04
  brothers who have different personalities, and
• 44:07
  he showed that. Like he showed the two different
• 44:11
  personalities of these two twin brothers. And
• 44:15
  I just, I loved it. I loved that part of it.
• 44:17
  But I also really loved, of course, the scene,
• 44:20
  um, when they're in the juke joint and Sammy
• 44:22
  is playing. Yeah, of course. My favorite scene.
• 44:26
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Diane, talk more
• 44:27
  about that. Oh yeah, no, the juke joint scene
• 44:30
  where Sammy's playing and you get kind of like
• 44:34
  a lapse in time of both past and present. You
• 44:38
  just kind of see the evolution of like music
• 44:40
  and how it really did come from the blues, the
• 44:43
  Delta blues. And that was something that I think
• 44:46
  Ryan Coogler even mentions and highlights that
• 44:48
  he did very much intentionally. Like this art
• 44:51
  that was created by Black. folks and how it shifts
• 44:56
  and turns even into different cultures, like
• 44:58
  this music, um, and how it brings community.
• 45:02
  Cause the juke, the jukebox joint, it's, you
• 45:05
  know, it centers everybody into this place to
• 45:07
  kind of get, get away from the outside world.
• 45:10
  They're now in the South and things are, you
• 45:12
  know, still in slavery or I'm not sure what the
• 45:14
  timeframe is, Jim Crow. Yeah, so it's creating
• 45:20
  this escapism and bringing unity for this. culture.
• 45:24
  And so it's a beautiful scene that depicts like
• 45:27
  just the different cultures that music is influenced
• 45:30
  by the blues. And I loved, I love that scene
• 45:33
  because I do, I'm a huge believer in music just
• 45:36
  bringing community. And you see that in different
• 45:38
  facets even currently how it does bring us all
• 45:41
  together. That scene was almost cut. and it's
• 45:45
  the most iconic scene in the movie. Yeah, I mean,
• 45:49
  you said it... You know who cuts those scenes
• 45:51
  is usually the studios. Tyler Pearley has a studio
• 45:54
  and he'd, again, they'd do anything about that.
• 45:57
  So, yeah, when you think about how... It really
• 46:01
  is tough. It really is tough for these directors
• 46:03
  to put even something like that, something beautiful,
• 46:06
  and it's a statement that's very true. They can't
• 46:09
  quite put that in... in media because somebody
• 46:12
  else, an executive in a studio will say, well,
• 46:15
  we don't need that for whatever reason, right?
• 46:17
  Because they don't see the vision or they don't
• 46:18
  quite understand what the messaging is. But I
• 46:22
  also do think like that scene in particular did
• 46:26
  interrupt a little bit of the flow of the movie,
• 46:29
  not in a negative way from my perspective, because
• 46:32
  I love that scene too, but it did pull you out
• 46:34
  from reality for a second. So it definitely is
• 46:37
  one of those scenes in a movie where I imagine
• 46:39
  like, if you're a part of these production companies,
• 46:42
  you're watching it and you're like, wow. And
• 46:44
  all of a sudden we're like with dancers from
• 46:48
  like the Africa's diaspora, like, or we're with
• 46:53
  like this futuristic guy on a guitar, like, this
• 46:55
  is so random. They don't get it. But luckily
• 46:59
  they didn't make the mistake of cutting that
• 47:00
  out because the viewers got it. The viewers that
• 47:04
  really know. Got it. I took that scene for granted
• 47:07
  when I watched it the first time in the theaters.
• 47:08
  I just didn't really think anything of it. And
• 47:10
  then the second time re -watching this movie,
• 47:13
  like here at home on HBO Max, yeah, I was just
• 47:16
  really, really taken by how it expressed how
• 47:21
  this 1930s blues, black -owned music really influenced
• 47:26
  other types of black music over time. I mean,
• 47:28
  we already mentioned it. I mean, the 70s funk
• 47:30
  guitarist, the LL Cool J type hip hop dancer
• 47:33
  with this 80s aesthetic. I mean, it was, I don't
• 47:36
  know, it was... I found it to be a meditation
• 47:40
  when I was watching it this time around, you
• 47:42
  know? Like, we're obviously getting all the vampire,
• 47:46
  bloody, horror, gory stuff, I think slightly
• 47:49
  before. Like, I think it was already kind of
• 47:51
  building up. And then you have this scene happen,
• 47:55
  and it just, I don't know, it just kind of like
• 47:57
  was a calm, escapist meditation of... what it
• 48:02
  means to be a Black artist, what Black people
• 48:05
  have created over the course of, I don't know,
• 48:08
  100 years or so. So yeah, I'm glad that they
• 48:11
  kept that scene in. I think it was really, really,
• 48:14
  really profound to do it because it's just, it
• 48:17
  said a lot. It said a lot. Without really saying
• 48:18
  much. I mean, I don't think there's really much
• 48:20
  dialogue. It's literally just Sammy singing lyrics.
• 48:24
  I will say too, like every single time, all four
• 48:27
  times that I watched that scene, I got goosebumps
• 48:30
  when Sammy sang that song. Every single time.
• 48:33
  I had no idea. Miles Caden, he was an opening
• 48:38
  act for her, the singer. That's how he got discovered.
• 48:43
  I heard that. I didn't even know he was a singer
• 48:45
  at all. I just thought he was like some kind
• 48:49
  of like unknown aspiring actor, but no, he was
• 48:51
  literally already a singer opening for her. And
• 48:54
  I think after one concert, her was like, oh,
• 48:57
  hey, by the way, like Ryan Coogler and his people,
• 49:00
  they're looking to have you audition for this
• 49:01
  big top secret movie. And then boom, there you
• 49:04
  go. Miles Caden is now on top of the world. Oh
• 49:06
  my God. I love that guy. For it to be his debut
• 49:09
  acting is insane. Yeah. Let's talk about his
• 49:14
  performance for a little bit because like there
• 49:16
  was a certain, I don't know. I loved the, there's
• 49:20
  just something about the bass in his voice, just
• 49:22
  the way he delivered his dialogue. He had a certain
• 49:26
  vulnerability that I loved in his portrayal of
• 49:31
  the character. Just a sort of, I don't know.
• 49:34
  It's a sort of, um. a wonderment about the, you
• 49:39
  know, the world of music making. When he gets
• 49:42
  with the twins and they establish the juke joint,
• 49:44
  I certainly felt his fear in the beginning when
• 49:47
  he's coming in all bloody with the torn up guitar.
• 49:50
  And then, you know, of course we watched the
• 49:51
  movie further and see how it leads up to that
• 49:53
  moment. I don't know, any additional thoughts
• 49:56
  that you guys had about the performance? I loved
• 49:58
  Sammy. I thought he was great. Again, I was super
• 50:02
  impressed when I found out he's never like...
• 50:04
  acted in such a big screen like this before.
• 50:09
  But something that I did want to touch on, which
• 50:12
  is FD pointed out, is his theory. And also, I've
• 50:15
  watched a lot of reviewers, because again, I'm
• 50:17
  in the YouTube world and YouTube space, so I
• 50:19
  was like, Sinner's review, let's see what I've
• 50:21
  missed. And then in that, I rewatched and then
• 50:24
  kind of can see how and where these folks got
• 50:29
  this idea. So FD touches on the end of black
• 50:32
  art. and how Sammy is representative, perhaps
• 50:35
  potentially, of Ryan Coogler and how, yeah, how
• 50:40
  Ryan Coogler is very much aware of the fact that
• 50:43
  he has this ability to, to, this talent, this
• 50:46
  gift of, of writing and being a director, um,
• 50:49
  because he wasn't always going to be. He, he
• 50:52
  literally became a director because a teacher
• 50:55
  told him, hey, like you are a great writer. You
• 50:57
  should. go into Hollywood. And so, and he went
• 51:01
  off because he was going to be a football player.
• 51:03
  I think he was really good at playing football.
• 51:06
  Yeah. And he never thought. And so once he started
• 51:09
  going into directing and making these short films,
• 51:12
  small films. people were putting him, like saying
• 51:15
  he was really good, like he's super talented.
• 51:17
  And then he landed Fruitvale Station as his first
• 51:20
  project. And that kind of set it off from there,
• 51:23
  because he's literally has not missed since.
• 51:26
  He's done Creed, he's done Black Panther and
• 51:29
  then Yarkonda forever. So it's like literally
• 51:31
  back to back, he's trending upward. With Sammy,
• 51:36
  going back to Sammy and this idea of like the
• 51:38
  death of black art, because you see the actor
• 51:42
  who play, or what's the character's name that
• 51:44
  plays the lead vampire? Renick? Renick? Uh, Renick.
• 51:47
  Yeah, yeah, I think Renick. Yeah. Um, so you
• 51:50
  see how he's like attracted to Sammy's art and,
• 51:53
  and on the film and how he, like, he hears the
• 51:56
  music and that's what lures him in and wants,
• 51:58
  and wants to kind of take over. And so they're
• 52:00
  saying that like, Remick is kind of symbolic
• 52:03
  to like a studio who is going to profit off of
• 52:07
  Ryan Coogler's art. Yeah. And how that could
• 52:11
  potentially, how Ryan Coogler is kind of like
• 52:14
  at odds with it because he loves his art. Same,
• 52:16
  he loves this gift that he has, but he knows
• 52:19
  that it's drawing in this evil that's kind of
• 52:21
  like vampirism. They talk about how Karl Marx
• 52:24
  referenced in his literature, how capital is
• 52:28
  dead labor that vampire like on. lives by sucking
• 52:33
  the living labor and lives and more labor it
• 52:36
  sucks. So kind of depicting like Remick wanting
• 52:39
  this art to himself and how studios kind of want
• 52:43
  to profit off of black art. So it's just very
• 52:47
  interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I was also thinking
• 52:49
  about like how... well -known, iconic white musicians
• 52:53
  like Elvis Presley or, you know, Mick Jagger
• 52:56
  from the Rolling Stones have clearly, you know,
• 53:00
  taken from black artists to further their success.
• 53:04
  Yeah. I mean, you know, from a studio executive
• 53:06
  perspective, a white musician taking from a black
• 53:08
  art perspective, I mean, it really, like, you
• 53:11
  get all of that in... in Sinners. Delroy Lindo,
• 53:16
  I got to say him as Delta Slim, great performance.
• 53:20
  I think my favorite part was when he was in the
• 53:23
  car with Stack and Sammy, and they're driving
• 53:27
  toward the juke joint that's about to be open.
• 53:31
  And Delroy, as he's, you know, pounding down
• 53:33
  a few drinks, talks about, I think a buddy of
• 53:36
  his who - Rice. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, he was
• 53:40
  trying to make it and then, you know, he gets
• 53:43
  caught by the Ku Klux Klan and then he gets lynched.
• 53:47
  And something I didn't even notice from the first
• 53:49
  watch in the movie theater, the second watch
• 53:51
  here at home was you can actually hear the sounds
• 53:55
  of Delta Slim's friend being lynched as he's
• 53:59
  telling the story. So, yeah, a great moment there.
• 54:02
  Any thoughts about that character at all between
• 54:05
  you guys? Delroy Lindo is iconic. Um, he's one
• 54:10
  of those actors that has been in so many things
• 54:13
  and you probably don't realize that you've been
• 54:15
  watching him for years and years if you're consuming
• 54:18
  like certain media like black media. He's been
• 54:21
  in a number of films and stuff and shows. There's
• 54:24
  this show on Hulu that I enjoyed watching that
• 54:27
  he's a part of. But anyway, yeah, Delroy Lindo's
• 54:30
  character is amazing and I really love that scene
• 54:33
  too where he's talking about... um, his Delta
• 54:36
  Slim and and Rice and like when they got arrested
• 54:40
  and all of that. That was one of my favorite
• 54:43
  Sammy scenes as well because I noticed when rewatching
• 54:48
  it, um, You can see the excitement that Sammy
• 54:53
  has to understand what life is like outside of
• 54:56
  Mississippi, outside of where he is in Mississippi,
• 54:59
  and then the sheer disappointment on his face
• 55:02
  when he hears some of these stories of Delta
• 55:05
  Slim and what happened with him. Even when some
• 55:09
  of the twins disclose some of their own personal
• 55:12
  stuff, you can see. this boy. Sammy's the younger
• 55:17
  cousin. You can see this young boy just being
• 55:20
  excited to be around their older cousin, but
• 55:22
  then being hit with the truth of reality and
• 55:26
  what it is like for a black man because the black
• 55:30
  men with him who are older have experienced life
• 55:33
  in a way that he hasn't yet. He's looking to
• 55:35
  do that. He's fantasizing, but those fantasies
• 55:39
  can only go so far. Like, when you hear, you
• 55:42
  know, I think Stack said Chicago's just like
• 55:45
  Mississippi, just with tall buildings, you know?
• 55:47
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tall buildings instead
• 55:49
  of plantations. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like,
• 55:52
  Sammy's like asking this question, like, how
• 55:53
  is Chicago? I heard of a black man can be free.
• 55:56
  And that was the response that Stack gave. Like,
• 55:58
  oh, it's no different. There's just tall buildings.
• 56:01
  It's like so pointy and you can see that. So
• 56:04
  I really loved Sammy's acting in moments where
• 56:06
  he didn't even have to say anything. But yes,
• 56:10
  with Delroy, Delroy Lindo's character, ugh. There
• 56:13
  are so many points in the movie that are just
• 56:16
  amazing. Like when they first approach him at
• 56:19
  the train station. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's
• 56:23
  like back and forth. With Irish beer, you know?
• 56:26
  Yeah, like, and like even that scene, oh, I love
• 56:29
  that scene when they're trying to eat the garlic
• 56:31
  to find out who's the vampire in the group. And
• 56:34
  like Delroy Lindo is having the most ridiculous
• 56:37
  reaction to garlic. And then he, you think like,
• 56:40
  oh my God, he's going to be a vampire. And he's
• 56:42
  like, nope. Drink too much. It's like. Yep. Yep.
• 56:46
  All right. Yep. It's like slam stop. And there
• 56:51
  was a moment of suspense, maybe, I don't know,
• 56:54
  before or after the way vampires showed up, where
• 56:58
  Delroy's character took a pause and then just
• 57:01
  said, I think I shat myself, something like that.
• 57:03
  Yeah, he was such comedic relief. He was. For
• 57:07
  such a serious movie in serious times. And I
• 57:11
  feel like that is so hard to do, to actually
• 57:14
  deliver a joke when like... We're really talking
• 57:17
  about you guys are going to die in five minutes
• 57:19
  because Grace, I think that's her name. The shop
• 57:22
  owner, the Asian shop owner. Okay. Yeah. That
• 57:25
  sounds about right. Yeah. Who opened the door.
• 57:27
  Let me, let me confirm that that's actually her
• 57:30
  name and not assume, but yes, Grace, Grace Chow.
• 57:35
  So she, she totally was about to open the door
• 57:39
  and let all of these vampires in. And here's
• 57:42
  Delware Lindo still being. comedic and it's just,
• 57:45
  it's great. So yeah, nothing bad to say about
• 57:49
  Delroy Lindo's performance at all. I think he
• 57:52
  did stellar. No, and to Nat's point about how
• 57:57
  difficult it is to be the comedic relief in these
• 57:59
  horror, like, cause it's like a horror drama,
• 58:02
  I guess you could depict sinners as. But to be
• 58:06
  the comedic relief in, like, even something so
• 58:08
  serious tone or dark tone, sometimes you kind
• 58:10
  of go back and forth between, like, the annoyance.
• 58:13
  It's like, oh, you're kind of taking away from,
• 58:15
  like, what's happening right now. And typically,
• 58:17
  that's how I feel whenever I watch, like, something
• 58:21
  serious. But Delroy Linda was, like, right spot
• 58:24
  on with the humor, had the theater laughing at
• 58:27
  those moments, but also still, like... feeling
• 58:30
  this film, that it didn't take away from the
• 58:32
  film by any means. And so, um, yeah. I also wanted
• 58:36
  to point out too, sorry, not to go on and on
• 58:40
  about Dory Lindo, to be a character who's like
• 58:44
  portrayed as this like, like this kind of drunk,
• 58:49
  like, yes, he was, clearly he has a reputation.
• 58:52
  So like whoever knows him around is respecting
• 58:54
  him, but he's like a drunk making like... Probably
• 58:58
  not that much, but like he shows such a in contrast
• 59:02
  to Sammy's dad in the movie He shows like another
• 59:06
  side of like a father figure to Sammy that I
• 59:09
  really enjoyed to see like both like the preacher
• 59:12
  Because he is preacher boy. Mm -hmm, but also
• 59:15
  Delta slim imparting these wisdoms onto Sammy
• 59:20
  and like him Continuing in this journey of being
• 59:23
  conflicted between like would I follow like what?
• 59:26
  what my dad and like the right path, like what
• 59:29
  God says, or should I go down this path, like
• 59:32
  almost like going down to hell to where the blues
• 59:35
  and all this music and like the secular stuff
• 59:38
  is. I just thought it was really interesting
• 59:40
  that like Sammy had both, like he had preacher
• 59:43
  and he had Delta Slim as like a father figure
• 59:46
  type in the movie. And I enjoyed that. Yeah.
• 59:49
  Yeah. And to that religious point that you had
• 59:52
  mentioned, I think the quote that sticks with
• 59:53
  me is, And maybe the preacher said this to Sammy
• 59:58
  in the beginning, the quote about if you keep
• 1:00:01
  dancing with the devil, like one day he's gonna
• 1:00:02
  follow you home. Yeah, that quote, yeah, that
• 1:00:05
  definitely stuck with me. In terms of comedic
• 1:00:07
  moments, let's not forget cornbread, like stopping
• 1:00:10
  and restarting his pissing just before he was
• 1:00:14
  about to get attacked from the white vampires.
• 1:00:16
  And look, I got entertained by the white vampires.
• 1:00:18
  I mean, particularly when they... were playing
• 1:00:21
  their Pick Poor Robin Clean song as it, as they
• 1:00:23
  were trying to get into the juke joint. Like
• 1:00:25
  I thought, I thought that was just beautiful.
• 1:00:27
  It was a, it was a beautiful, calming bluegrass
• 1:00:30
  song, but it was also kind of a blue grassy song
• 1:00:32
  that, that, that just made me laugh. And, uh,
• 1:00:34
  I thought they had a very beautifully choreographed,
• 1:00:37
  uh, Irish step dance vampire madness thing going
• 1:00:39
  on when everybody was just like, they were pretty
• 1:00:42
  much possessed. And, uh, Michael B. Jordan's
• 1:00:45
  vampire stack was included in that as well. Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  So many, so many great, great moments. to take
• 1:00:51
  from this movie. To speak to a previous point
• 1:00:53
  about the physicality difference, like of like
• 1:00:58
  Smoke and Stack, to add to that, Michael B. Jordan
• 1:01:01
  like intentionally like had different shoe sizes.
• 1:01:05
  I heard about that. Yeah. Yeah. You heard about
• 1:01:07
  that, Diane? So I think, correct me if I'm wrong
• 1:01:10
  on this. I think for Stack, he had a smaller
• 1:01:13
  shoe size because he wanted like that. tension
• 1:01:17
  with Stack that would keep him like moving and
• 1:01:20
  bouncing around to like match the energy of his
• 1:01:22
  character. And I guess Smoke just had a, either
• 1:01:26
  Michael B. Jordan's regular shoe size or a bigger
• 1:01:27
  shoe size. So yeah, but you, but yeah, but you
• 1:01:30
  heard about that, right? Kind of to intentionally
• 1:01:33
  make him slower. Cause Smoke is kind of like
• 1:01:35
  the uncle or father like, and Stack is more so
• 1:01:39
  like the cool like. Um, rebellious one, I guess
• 1:01:43
  you could say. And so that was very much intentional
• 1:01:46
  to kind of portray these two person, different
• 1:01:48
  personalities. Um, smoke is much more strategic,
• 1:01:51
  slower, wouldn't intentionally lie. Whereas stack
• 1:01:54
  probably would more, um, fast pace. I would get
• 1:01:58
  maybe impulsive, you would say. Did you guys
• 1:02:01
  think the movie was too gory? at times or at
• 1:02:07
  all. Cause my therapist and I don't know, I mean,
• 1:02:10
  she's a white woman of a certain age. I mean,
• 1:02:13
  she tried to watch it, but it couldn't get through
• 1:02:15
  like a few minutes of it because like, it was
• 1:02:17
  like the blood is too much. And I'm like, no,
• 1:02:20
  I think I've seen a lot worse than what sinners
• 1:02:22
  had. I don't know. A lot worse is out there.
• 1:02:29
  I mean, if anything, there was, there was definitely
• 1:02:31
  moments where like the, as the blood was like
• 1:02:33
  spurting out of the people as they were being
• 1:02:35
  possessed by vampires, I really was seeing like
• 1:02:38
  such a sort of artifice, a sort of fakeness to
• 1:02:40
  it. It did seem very more juicy or yeah, yeah,
• 1:02:44
  cranberry beet juicy rather than like genuine
• 1:02:47
  looking blood. So I think that was a big part
• 1:02:50
  of like why I didn't mind the goriness of it.
• 1:02:54
  So. Yeah. I mean, I know that Michael B Jordan,
• 1:02:57
  he hated it's being covered in, in fake blood.
• 1:03:00
  He was talking about that. Uh, how that was like
• 1:03:03
  the worst thing ever, because when you're wearing
• 1:03:04
  those 1930 suits and then you have the fake blood
• 1:03:06
  all over it, like it essentially like sticks
• 1:03:09
  to your suits, the longer, like you're wearing
• 1:03:11
  the suit with the blood. And yeah, he was talking
• 1:03:14
  about how nice it was that Ryan Coogler, like,
• 1:03:16
  because there was a scene. Like remember the
• 1:03:19
  scene where like smoke is emotionally holding
• 1:03:21
  stack as he's like dying and he's about to. be
• 1:03:25
  possessed as a vampire. So they did however many
• 1:03:28
  takes and they had to like reset up on cameras
• 1:03:31
  and lighting and blah, blah, blah. So Michael
• 1:03:33
  B. Jordan is just kind of like sitting there
• 1:03:35
  and waiting with the fake blood and his 1930
• 1:03:39
  suit, just everything sticking onto him because
• 1:03:41
  it was much easier to just hold like that rather
• 1:03:44
  than like. change out and try to clean himself
• 1:03:47
  off. And he was talking about how Ryan Coogler
• 1:03:50
  was offering to sit next to him and suffer with
• 1:03:52
  him in the fake blood because no, Ryan Coogler's
• 1:03:55
  reputation is that like, I'm not going to ask
• 1:03:58
  an actor to do something that I'm not willing
• 1:03:59
  to do myself. So yeah, I just thought that was
• 1:04:01
  a very beautiful story of two people just sitting
• 1:04:04
  in fake blood together in unity. It's all for
• 1:04:07
  the sake of art. For good art. Great art. I always
• 1:04:11
  thought it was funny too how Michael B. Jordan
• 1:04:13
  died in his own arms. Yeah. Yeah. All of those
• 1:04:21
  scenes are funny. Like, when he's saying, like,
• 1:04:24
  when they were at the truck and, like, they were
• 1:04:26
  about to split up for that first part of the
• 1:04:29
  movie where Stack was gonna go with Sammy to
• 1:04:31
  go pick up Delta Slim. And, like, they do the
• 1:04:33
  dap and they're like, love you, love you, gonna
• 1:04:36
  see you soon. It's like Michael B. Jordan just
• 1:04:39
  told himself he loved him. Yeah. Yeah, no, Michael
• 1:04:44
  B. Jordan, yeah, the first take he had to do,
• 1:04:46
  I guess he had to hold a body double, a bloody
• 1:04:48
  body double in his arms. And then the... second
• 1:04:50
  take was maybe space. I don't know. I mean, it
• 1:04:54
  does take a lot of convincing and acting and
• 1:04:56
  imagination to hold your fake twin in your arms.
• 1:05:00
  Yeah. Oh my God. 500 pounds of cotton was used,
• 1:05:02
  by the way, for this movie. 500 pounds of cotton.
• 1:05:05
  Wow. I know. I know. Is that what Sammy was lugging?
• 1:05:09
  Was that part of the cotton that was used or
• 1:05:11
  was that just a prop? I don't know. I'm just
• 1:05:13
  thinking of the plantation scene, right? Because
• 1:05:15
  there was the - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was that all
• 1:05:18
  prop or was that like actual cotton? It was actual
• 1:05:22
  cotton. Yeah. They wanted to make it as authentic
• 1:05:25
  to 1930s Swedish Louisiana or Mississippi. I
• 1:05:29
  mean, they shot the movie in Louisiana because
• 1:05:31
  it was good on taxes. But yeah, the movie itself
• 1:05:34
  takes place in Mississippi, but yeah, I guess
• 1:05:36
  they want it to be authentic to it. So they ordered
• 1:05:39
  500 pounds of cotton. So there you go. All for
• 1:05:45
  art. I don't know if you guys care about the
• 1:05:49
  Oscars at all, but any predictions? Or do you
• 1:05:53
  have any opinions on who you think should win
• 1:05:55
  what award? I think sinners should win them all.
• 1:06:01
  I honestly didn't watch any of the other nominees.
• 1:06:06
  I looked through the different sections. One
• 1:06:11
  battle after another, I've seen that. That's
• 1:06:12
  fantastic. I highly recommend it. I think you'll
• 1:06:14
  enjoy it. I wanted to see Marty Supreme, but
• 1:06:17
  then Lent came. You know Lent. Um, I am, my hands
• 1:06:22
  are tied. I was really planning on watching some
• 1:06:24
  of the other ones, but like, yeah, I can't beat
• 1:06:26
  the calendar. Lent is here and I committed. So
• 1:06:28
  I'll be watching some of those movies after,
• 1:06:31
  but I'm going to root for Ryan Coogler and the
• 1:06:34
  cast to win and the crew to win. Cause I think
• 1:06:38
  like the costumes, I think they got nominated
• 1:06:40
  for like the costumes and stuff. I'm pretty sure.
• 1:06:45
  I think I skimmed through it. Yeah, that's one
• 1:06:48
  of the nominations. And they also got nominated
• 1:06:51
  for the scoring. It's definitely best picture.
• 1:06:57
  Let's not kid ourselves here. It's definitely
• 1:07:00
  up there. I'm afraid because this has happened
• 1:07:03
  where a movie like Sinners has... a record amount
• 1:07:06
  of nominations. And then they get one win. Yeah.
• 1:07:09
  One win or nothing. You know what I mean? Like
• 1:07:11
  it just, it's like a surprise upset. So I'm fearing
• 1:07:14
  that's what will happen. Cause I think that's
• 1:07:15
  kind of what happened with centers at one of
• 1:07:18
  the other awards show ceremonies. It might've
• 1:07:19
  been the critics choice awards or the golden
• 1:07:21
  globe awards, but I think it was the recent sag
• 1:07:23
  actor awards ceremony that happened where they
• 1:07:26
  got their due. I know that Michael B Jordan won
• 1:07:28
  an actor award at that recent ceremony. So that's
• 1:07:31
  nice. So yeah, I'm, I'm kind of concerned I'm
• 1:07:34
  cause Uh, you know, especially with the Oscars
• 1:07:37
  and their reputation for awarding some like four
• 1:07:40
  hour long prestige drama over something like
• 1:07:43
  Sinners, which is like both great art, but also
• 1:07:47
  got people's butts in seats and made a lot of
• 1:07:50
  money. I wanted to get it to do, so we'll, we'll,
• 1:07:53
  we'll see what happens. Uh, and did you see any
• 1:07:54
  other of the, uh, the movies in the, in the,
• 1:07:57
  in the best picture category or, or was Sinners
• 1:07:58
  the only thing that you saw too? Sinners was
• 1:08:00
  the only one that I saw. Um, I've heard good
• 1:08:03
  things about the other ones, but. rooting for
• 1:08:06
  Sinners. I do understand what you're saying though
• 1:08:08
  because we were just talking about Denzel Washington
• 1:08:10
  and how they did him. So Oscars I think is known
• 1:08:14
  for not awarding certain films because of the
• 1:08:18
  messaging that it's given. I think because there's
• 1:08:19
  so much conversations had about Sinners and the
• 1:08:22
  true message of what it's trying to portray,
• 1:08:25
  it may, they may not get the award simply because
• 1:08:28
  of that. But I'm hoping that that doesn't happen.
• 1:08:32
  All right. Well, the Oscars are, I don't know,
• 1:08:34
  a week. It's March. We're recording this on Wednesday,
• 1:08:40
  March 4th. So I believe the Oscars is on March
• 1:08:42
  15th. So it's going to be a week from this coming
• 1:08:45
  Sunday. So we will see what happens. And if Sinners
• 1:08:49
  wins, we will all be celebrating because it is
• 1:08:52
  a - We're popping champagne because it should
• 1:08:54
  win. It should win. At least three Oscars. And
• 1:08:59
  it's going to be best picture, best - actor and...
• 1:09:05
  Best director? Best director possibly? Come on,
• 1:09:09
  best director for Ryan. Best director, but then
• 1:09:11
  Delroy Lindo for supporting actors? Yeah, Delroy
• 1:09:13
  Lindo did an Oscar. The man is in his 70s, beautiful
• 1:09:19
  actor. And he's got such a history. If he doesn't
• 1:09:22
  already, I should know about Delroy Lindo's Oscar
• 1:09:25
  or whatever, his award history. If he doesn't
• 1:09:28
  already have an Oscar, like... He should absolutely
• 1:09:31
  get one for this movie. This might be his first
• 1:09:35
  nomination. Hold on. I don't even know. He was
• 1:09:38
  British. He's a British actor. He is, but I think
• 1:09:40
  he was raised in America, so he doesn't have
• 1:09:42
  the accent if you actually watch his interviews.
• 1:09:45
  Oh, really? Yeah. All right. Born in London.
• 1:09:48
  All right. He has a Tony Award nomination under
• 1:09:51
  his belt. I think I knew that. I think I knew
• 1:09:53
  he had the Tony. Because he's on the stage stage.
• 1:09:58
  Right, right. Yeah, no, I think this might be
• 1:10:00
  his first nomination for, for center. So we're,
• 1:10:04
  we're definitely pulling for him. I think I had
• 1:10:05
  a conversation with somebody on another podcast.
• 1:10:07
  What do you guys think about like Michael B.
• 1:10:09
  Jordan's acting in general? Cause I think I hadn't
• 1:10:11
  made the point that like Michael B. Jordan, I
• 1:10:16
  think isn't the greatest actor, but he somehow
• 1:10:22
  finds himself in really great movies and TV shows.
• 1:10:27
  Does that make any sense? Like he has, um, I
• 1:10:31
  dunno, there's a certain, there's a certain reserved
• 1:10:38
  leading man quality that he has that I guess
• 1:10:41
  makes sense for movies. Obviously a lot of ladies
• 1:10:44
  find him attractive. I get that as well. Um.
• 1:10:48
  But yeah, somehow he just finds himself in great
• 1:10:50
  stuff. I mean, I remember watching him as a kid
• 1:10:52
  on the show The Wire. He was great in that. He
• 1:10:54
  was great in Friday Night Lights. And then obviously
• 1:10:56
  he has all the success in movies. Sinners might
• 1:10:58
  have been the first one where it's like, oh,
• 1:11:00
  okay. Like I see him like really putting in some
• 1:11:02
  performing shops. This is kind of different than
• 1:11:04
  what I've seen in the past. But yeah, I don't
• 1:11:06
  know. I've never like looked at Michael B. Jordan
• 1:11:08
  and thought, oh, wow, this is a very talented,
• 1:11:11
  multi -layered actor with like a lot of range
• 1:11:13
  and blah, blah, blah. I just look at him as,
• 1:11:16
  all right, like he... He has a reserved natural
• 1:11:19
  presence and he just happens to be in a lot of
• 1:11:21
  great stuff. Any thoughts on that? I think what's
• 1:11:23
  helped him tremendously is the fact that he's
• 1:11:26
  oh, he's landed such a good friendship with Ryan
• 1:11:30
  Coogler because a lot of the like, they go hand
• 1:11:33
  in hand with the work that they've done together
• 1:11:36
  since the very beginning of Ryan Coogler's career.
• 1:11:38
  And Ryan Coogler is just a phenomenal director.
• 1:11:41
  So to your point, I do think that he's had that
• 1:11:45
  kind of kind of assist in his career in terms
• 1:11:49
  of his acting and why he's in such good movies.
• 1:11:52
  But I will also say that The Wire, I did enjoy
• 1:11:55
  his character in The Wire. He was such a young
• 1:11:57
  actor. Fantastic Four is the only film that I'm,
• 1:12:02
  I was like, but then I also think about Chronicle
• 1:12:06
  when he was... depicting this, so I'm thinking
• 1:12:09
  projects outside of Ryan Coogler and Chronicle
• 1:12:11
  wasn't a Ryan Coogler film. Then I did enjoy
• 1:12:15
  his acting there, although it was brief because
• 1:12:18
  he like died, he was like the first one that
• 1:12:20
  died I believe, but definitely, he wasn't maybe
• 1:12:25
  a standout but I didn't mind his acting. So to
• 1:12:28
  your point I would agree and I would say that
• 1:12:30
  Ryan Coogler was definitely something that's
• 1:12:32
  helped him in his career for sure. Yeah, I agree.
• 1:12:35
  I agree with Diane. And I agree with you as well,
• 1:12:38
  Natsa. Like, I feel like it's definitely... And
• 1:12:42
  I just realized I just called you your nickname.
• 1:12:44
  No, no, no, that's good. That's fine. That's
• 1:12:46
  fine. I just called you your nickname. I'm sorry.
• 1:12:52
  No, no, no, no. Don't apologize. I would have
• 1:12:54
  been... I would have gotten the ick if you had
• 1:12:57
  called me John. And I was actually thinking about
• 1:13:00
  that. I was actually thinking about that going
• 1:13:02
  into this episode. I was like, oh God, are they
• 1:13:03
  going to call me John? Are they going to make
• 1:13:04
  it weird and call me John? No, but no one else
• 1:13:07
  can call him that. No one else can call him his
• 1:13:11
  nickname. It's a family household name. But anyway,
• 1:13:16
  so. Anyway, no, no, just to give context for
• 1:13:17
  those listening and watching. So my name is Jonathan,
• 1:13:21
  short for John, part of Jonathan, Nathan. We
• 1:13:24
  come from a Haitian family, me and Natalie, and
• 1:13:27
  Nathan, I guess the Haitian way that we've came
• 1:13:30
  up with saying it, Nata. If you want to find
• 1:13:33
  a pronunciation, I think Diane, you were the
• 1:13:35
  one that started off the spelling as. N -A -T
• 1:13:38
  -U -H -H -H -H -H is that what it is? I remember
• 1:13:44
  like that late when we, because I used to do
• 1:13:48
  radio in Iowa and you and our CJ came to visit
• 1:13:53
  me and you were on the radio with me one day
• 1:13:55
  and you called me John and I just remember being
• 1:13:56
  like, oh God, that doesn't sound right. No, don't
• 1:13:59
  do that again. So yes, thank you for calling
• 1:14:01
  me Nata. Continue with your points. But yes.
• 1:14:06
  So, now I completely lost my point. Oh, Michael
• 1:14:10
  B. Jordan's acting. Yeah, so, oh yeah, I agree.
• 1:14:14
  I think that he landed the jackpot with his friendship
• 1:14:18
  with Ryan Coogler. I feel like Ryan Coogler,
• 1:14:22
  like, casts him in roles that really do show
• 1:14:26
  his strengths in acting. Do I feel like he...
• 1:14:30
  Yeah, like I totally think that he could be better,
• 1:14:33
  but I also anticipate that he's got a long career
• 1:14:37
  ahead of him and we'll see a lot more of Michael
• 1:14:40
  B. Jordan. and his acting improve. My only thing
• 1:14:45
  is, is that I think we can only really see that
• 1:14:48
  improvement if he does have other directors that
• 1:14:52
  he can work with that also highlight some of
• 1:14:54
  his strengths and know how to work with him as
• 1:14:56
  an artist. Because Ryan Coogler clearly knows
• 1:14:59
  how to work with him and does a great job of
• 1:15:03
  producing these movies where Michael B. Jordan
• 1:15:05
  is a character who does well. And he... Even
• 1:15:09
  if he's not, like, the most stylistically, like,
• 1:15:12
  amazing, like, we can all agree that those characters,
• 1:15:15
  like, in Creed and in this movie, like, with
• 1:15:20
  Sinners and Wakanda Forever and all of that,
• 1:15:24
  like, with the Black Panther film, like, that's
• 1:15:27
  a great Michael B. Jordan, you know? It's fun
• 1:15:30
  to see somebody grow up on the screen, and I
• 1:15:34
  do think, like, he's got room to improve. But
• 1:15:36
  for now, like... He hit the jackpot with Ryan
• 1:15:39
  Coogler. I don't think he would be successful
• 1:15:41
  if he didn't have a director like Ryan Coogler
• 1:15:44
  on his side. Yeah. Yeah, no, no. I think there
• 1:15:46
  another version of like the Robert De Niro Martin
• 1:15:51
  Scorsese collaboration. I'm also thinking of
• 1:15:55
  when Johnny Depp and Tim Burton used to do a
• 1:15:57
  lot of movies together. Yeah, I was going to
• 1:15:58
  say Johnny Depp and Tim Burton. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:16:01
  yeah. Or even like Adam Sandler and his whole
• 1:16:04
  group of buddies that he always had. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:16:06
  yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Michael and
• 1:16:10
  Ryan, they just found their match. I'm fine.
• 1:16:14
  I would be definitely fascinated to see Michael
• 1:16:16
  stretch out and work with other directors, see
• 1:16:18
  how he handles that. But I'm also, I also wouldn't
• 1:16:21
  mind if he's just like, no, I'm just going to
• 1:16:24
  fuck with Ryan Googler. Like he has gotten me
• 1:16:27
  this far. Um, and also I just love, there's,
• 1:16:31
  there's an authenticity to Ryan that I. just
• 1:16:36
  want to, you know, see more of and in the film
• 1:16:40
  industry, if that makes any sense. I mean, basically
• 1:16:42
  what I'm saying is, like, I see an interview,
• 1:16:44
  you know, with this guy on the breakfast club,
• 1:16:46
  and this may have been the first time that I've
• 1:16:48
  seen him interviewed. And this is... a guy that
• 1:16:52
  I feel like I could just have a conversation
• 1:16:54
  with like on the street or at the bar or whatever
• 1:16:57
  like he has a really heavy Oakland accent and
• 1:17:01
  just someone of his caliber just being this black
• 1:17:04
  man from from Oakland who just has a very like
• 1:17:07
  casual demeanor about himself like just doesn't
• 1:17:10
  like put on any airs like he just feels like
• 1:17:13
  a human being and for the fact for him to make
• 1:17:16
  it as far as he has in the in the film industry
• 1:17:18
  I mean I just want more of that so The more Michael
• 1:17:21
  works with him, I think, is all the better because,
• 1:17:24
  yeah, I just think Ryan is awesome. Especially
• 1:17:25
  that deal that he made with Warner Brothers because
• 1:17:28
  he made a specific deal in the contract where,
• 1:17:31
  like, he basically owns centers financially and
• 1:17:36
  sort of creative licensing -wise till the end
• 1:17:39
  of time because I think that other filmmakers
• 1:17:42
  would just be like, all right, like... a significant
• 1:17:45
  portion of the ownership and what have you. Like
• 1:17:47
  I'll give that to the studio, but Ryan really
• 1:17:50
  believes in his product and ownership of it.
• 1:17:52
  And he made sure that he was just going to get
• 1:17:54
  everything that he could out of centers. Yeah.
• 1:17:58
  And if you watch his interviews too, when they
• 1:18:01
  ask him about that, because it was very much
• 1:18:04
  highlighted when that he did this contract with
• 1:18:06
  Warner Brothers and he kind of, I think it was
• 1:18:09
  the Democrat Now's interview with Ryan Coogler,
• 1:18:13
  they asked him, like, why do you think that there's
• 1:18:15
  so much talks about you in this contract? He's
• 1:18:17
  like, well, let me just preface. This contract
• 1:18:19
  is not foreign to other folks or directors who've
• 1:18:23
  done contracts similarly to what I'm doing with
• 1:18:25
  Warner Brothers. But I'm not, he's like, I plead,
• 1:18:28
  he's very intentional with what he says in these
• 1:18:31
  interviews to not, I would say kind of disrupt
• 1:18:34
  and kind of. lose audience who enjoy sinners.
• 1:18:39
  Because again, I think there's an intention behind
• 1:18:41
  Ryan Coogler's work in general, what he's doing.
• 1:18:45
  Um, but yeah, he, he carefully pleads the fifth
• 1:18:49
  on that one as to why he gets highlighted as
• 1:18:52
  to making this contract deal with Warner Brothers.
• 1:18:54
  So I'm like, okay. Um, there was a Hannah Flint
• 1:18:57
  interview that he did to, um, where she kind
• 1:19:00
  of goes into the Karl Marx aspect because she's
• 1:19:02
  like, you know, capitalism, you're making a broad
• 1:19:05
  statement and he goes, do you know where I'm
• 1:19:07
  from? And he's so even saying that he's letting
• 1:19:12
  people know he's from, you said it, Oakland.
• 1:19:14
  Oakland is, he says it's the same block of where
• 1:19:17
  the Black Panther Party originated from. And
• 1:19:20
  so all of that. And so it's like, it would be,
• 1:19:27
  like my art would maybe reflect some of that
• 1:19:30
  because he grew up on that. So it's very interesting.
• 1:19:33
  Wow. Well, great conversation about sinners.
• 1:19:36
  Best of luck to it at the Oscars. Thank you guys
• 1:19:39
  for hanging on. I know I kept you way past your
• 1:19:41
  time, but yeah, this was great. This was great.
• 1:19:44
  Thank you so much. And for those of you listening
• 1:19:46
  and watching The Delicious Culture, consume it
• 1:19:48
  wherever you get your podcasts. Apple, Spotify,
• 1:19:50
  iHeart, Amazon, SiriusXM, wherever. If you're
• 1:19:53
  on Spotify, leave us a five star rating. If you
• 1:19:54
  like the podcast, if you're on Apple, leave us
• 1:19:57
  a written review. That really helps. Email any
• 1:20:00
  feedback that you may have about this episode.
• 1:20:02
  TheDeliciousCulture at gmail .com. That is TheDeliciousCulture
• 1:20:05
  at gmail .com and follow on social media at The
• 1:20:09
  Delicious Culture on Instagram, YouTube, TikTok.
• 1:20:11
  Follow, subscribe, comment, like, share, all
• 1:20:13
  that good stuff at The Delicious. Culture. Um,
• 1:20:17
  I definitely want to do a permanent lent on social
• 1:20:20
  media because I just, I, I, maybe I've said it
• 1:20:25
  before, but I just, I don't like it, but it's,
• 1:20:27
  it's a part of content promotions. That, that,
• 1:20:31
  that would be my request. If I were ever to do
• 1:20:33
  a lent, it would be a permanent lent on social
• 1:20:35
  media because it's too overstimulating. Yeah.
• 1:20:40
  Hey, speaking of maybe social media or promoting
• 1:20:43
  or whatever, I don't know what I'm talking about.
• 1:20:46
  You guys, Natalie, Diane, anything you want to
• 1:20:48
  promote, whether it be Lent or anything out there,
• 1:20:51
  good causes or any upcoming projects or fun things
• 1:20:54
  that you're doing? Go ahead. Your time to shine.
• 1:20:57
  I know I want to promote community. Yeah. I would
• 1:21:04
  like everybody to really reflect on community.
• 1:21:10
  Only because it's so necessary as we're talking
• 1:21:13
  about like social media and art and stuff like
• 1:21:16
  it's really important. I think that people Connect
• 1:21:20
  with one another and find their tribe if you're
• 1:21:24
  out searching for a tribe, like maybe find different
• 1:21:28
  areas to look. I don't know, but I do want to
• 1:21:31
  promote community. I think it would be helpful
• 1:21:34
  for everybody to just even reflect on it, like
• 1:21:37
  whether or not you have a community. And if you
• 1:21:40
  don't, come to the Delishies community because
• 1:21:44
  you can find a home here. There you go. How about
• 1:21:47
  you, Diane? Similarly to Nat, I'll shout out
• 1:21:50
  support local businesses, guys. That's one way
• 1:21:53
  to find community as well is, you know, when
• 1:21:57
  it comes to what's going on and globally, I think
• 1:22:01
  sometimes we kind of feel like we need to isolate
• 1:22:04
  and I don't know, maybe escapism, consumerism,
• 1:22:07
  I think is a real thing. And instead of funding
• 1:22:09
  these corporations, let's support these mom and
• 1:22:12
  pop shops. Or I know that that's one of the reasons
• 1:22:14
  why I wanted to shout out A8. 881 grab and go.
• 1:22:17
  Um, but I also know a lot of local owned businesses
• 1:22:20
  here in Hartford that are really about community,
• 1:22:23
  as Natalie put it. Um, Samia Cafe is another
• 1:22:26
  one. Fresh Five Deli is another one too that
• 1:22:29
  does so much work for, for community in this,
• 1:22:33
  in this climate specifically, I think it's crucial.
• 1:22:36
  So. Yes. From where you guys are in Connecticut
• 1:22:38
  to where I am in Vermont to anywhere where, uh,
• 1:22:42
  The audience is listening and watching. Yes,
• 1:22:45
  support your local community, your mom and pop
• 1:22:47
  businesses, because it is a tough time for all
• 1:22:52
  of them. It is very easy to stick with the big
• 1:22:56
  conglomerates like your Amazon and order stuff.
• 1:22:59
  I get it. It's very convenient. I've been guilty
• 1:23:01
  of that myself, but yeah, there's nothing like
• 1:23:04
  that connection that you have with the person
• 1:23:07
  next door who wants to sell you the best cupcake
• 1:23:10
  ever. Take advantage. And it's made with love.
• 1:23:13
  It's made with love, usually. Yes. They're not
• 1:23:15
  taking anything with love in a corporation. Right.
• 1:23:19
  Exactly. Jeff Bezos has no love in his heart.
• 1:23:23
  No. People have left me off for shares. Exactly.
• 1:23:28
  All right. Thank you, Natalie and Diane. Hope
• 1:23:31
  to have you on the show again next time. And
• 1:23:35
  for all of y 'all listening and watching all
• 1:23:37
  the deliciousies out there, let deliciousness
• 1:23:39
  ring. Let it ring!