Latest / Scouting the League / A look inside the J-E-T-S: a look inside scouting w/ Greg Nejmeh

Transcript

A look inside the J-E-T-S: a look inside scouting w/ Greg Nejmeh · Scouting the League

• Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: The New York Jets have had some ups and downs in the recent years, just to say a little bit about what they've done on the field in the draft. Is Aaron Glenn? Is Darren Muji? Are they the guys to lead the franchise back? Well, today we talked to somebody who knows the Jets intimately. Greg Nejma joined Scouting the League to talk about his time with the Jets, as well as scouting big picture, organizational issues, scouting issues. the new landscape that both the pro and college game has become. Really good conversation with Greg. Make sure you stick around for this one. Before we jump in though, make sure you head over, like, subscribe, share this podcast wherever you're listening and watching. Love to hear the feedback in the comments wherever it's at. Hit me up on Twitter. At right stepadv is where you can find me. Roderick David, of course, R Safootball.com is my website. Neil Stratton, along for the ride, leading this one today. He is at InsideTheLeague on Twitter, inside the league.com. His blog, succeedinfootball.com, is a must read. And the Friday wrap that you can get signed up for there on his Twitter page. That's a must-have as well. Greg Nezma is at Greg Nezma, N-E-J-M-E-H 4. on Twitter and Instagram. Check the show notes for that. We'll have the links in there. Accelerate Sports Ventures is what he is doing now that he is not with the Jets. So check that out as well. Make sure if you're a scout or aspiring scout, this is some great content for you, but get on. Check out thescoutingcommunity.com as well for resources, information, everything you need as I and the group of scouts that are already a part of the scouting community work to make some changes, make the world of scouting a little bit better. For all the reports you need, right stepscouting dot com is a spot for you to check out this video. Yes, rightstepscouting.com is the spot for you to get every report you need. So go check it out today. And then last but not least, make sure you head over, check out our partners at blueMaka.com for the best insoles on the market, blue maca.com. Use code scouting20 to let them know. We sent you. Get a little discount on that order as well. But as we get into it with Greg Neshma today, again, lots of great talk on draft picks, on processes, on the way the scouting world is. So let's get to it. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Today's guest spent sixteen years in the Jets front office helping in the selection of some very talented players and finishing up as co-director of player personnel. Today he's president of Accelerate Sports Ventures. Greg Nezima, welcome to the podcast, brother. Greg Nejmeh: Appreciate you guys having me. Looking forward to it. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: I'm so glad to have you. All right. So you've seen a lot of football over the years. Greg, we're going to kind of talk about lots of different experiences, lots of different things. We'll start here. We're seeing such a revolution in the way the game is coached, reported, and even evaluated now. What wins in the NFL today, Greg? What are the two to three key ingredients that every team must have? And is that true on the college level as well? Greg Nejmeh: Hmm. It's a great question. I think when you simplify it or when you try to simplify it, at the end of the day, you need to be able to score points, right? And you need to be able to rush the passer or affect the passer in some way. You know, I think that's kind of where the game is and where it's going. I do think that's true in college. I think the the one difference I would say in the college game is as I watch it, like, yeah, there's great pass rushers in college, right? But so much of this is get the ball out. quick and all that sort of stuff that I think it's a little bit different in college where like you need to be able to on defense, instead of rushing the pass, you need to be able to run sideline to sideline and be a really good tackling team. You know, I think that's where I see so many, so many teams let up points just by not being able to do those two things. So there's a lot more obviously context and layers to all those things, but I think to try to simplify it, that's kind of how I see the game. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: That's really interesting. So so the old ac axiom, Greg, because I'm old, is was always you must be able to run the football and stop the run. Do you think in twenty twenty six we've evolved a point where it's more about you've got to be able to pass the ball and stop the pass? Greg Nejmeh: Yeah, I do. I mean, look, I think still running the ball and and stopping the run are important. Any teams are going to exploit whatever weakness you have, right? They're going to try to. So you you wanna make sure those two areas are not a glaring fatal weakness, right? But I I don't think that they necessarily are the areas that you wanna pour all your resources into. 'Cause I I don't know that the way the game is played now. I think you can win some games, but I don't I think there's a ceiling, right? i in in that regard. So Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Okay. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah. That ceiling. Again, we football seems to be at least somewhat cyclical, right? Again, every nothing ever dies. We see single wing elements, though it's not coming from the single wing, right? But Greg Nejmeh: Yeah. Yeah. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: again, some of what we started to see with the tush push, again, elements of the single wing. So it all comes back around. We've seen, like you said, at the college level, teams getting smaller faster. We've got to be able to play sideless sideline to sideline. Do you think it's going to come back around to where somebody's going to say, hey, we're going to go 340 across the front and we are just going to shove the ball down your throats? Kind of a little bit of old Nick Saban, Alabama pro style offense to where we're going to eventually have that pushback to the NFL, or is that football completely done and gone by the wayside? Greg Nejmeh: No, I think you make a great point. And I do I do think that'll happen because I think what what offenses will see is they'll say, All right, these defensive linemen are fast and athletic, but they're not they're two hundred and eighty pounds, they're not three hundred and fifteen pounds anymore, right? And how do we combat that? It's let's get really big, really strong and powerful up front. We don't even need super athletic offensive linemen because we're gonna just push the ball, you know, vertically downfield, you know, run run game vertical downfield at you. so yeah, I do. I think that's and I think that's why football's great, right? It is cyclical. Every time there's a trend, there's there there's a a counter to that trend, you know. And so I think the teams that stay ahead of that or or are you know have the foresight to try to stay ahead of ahead of that, they're typically the ones that sustain winning for longer than us. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah, and that's sustained winning. Again, we're we're talking that about that with, you know, again, some of these teams. The Eagles are they're in a mess right now, right? Everybody wants to point at the Eagles like everything's falling apart, yet they have sustained winning and you know could very well could very well turn it around. Do you think it's the same for again, I don't want to pick on your jets, but like you get on the wrong side of that trend. Is it that hard to find your way back to it even Even five hundred football. Greg Nejmeh: Well, I think the the hard thing for teams like it just comparing those two teams, right? Like the Eagles are have an established, you know, obviously they've they've won Super Bowls, they consistently win. So what they're going through, they're going through kind of a transition, right? Obviously, with with, you know, Lane Johnson retiring and trading Cam Jurgens. Like the offensive line's been the identity of their team, but really that transition probably started this past offseason when when Jeff Stalin le left, right? You know, so those I I think that, you know. i if you look at like teams like the Seahawks years ago, right? When they kind of rebuilt and did it on the fly almost, like I feel like the Eagles are in that, you know, mold right now, but I don't think that the bottom falls out on the Eagles. You know, I still think they're a good enough team. They've got a they've got a lot of really good players. They've got an established culture of winning. They've got, you know, arguably the best general manager in in in the league, right? So they're gonna figure it out. It might not be maybe to the level that they expected or hoped to start the year. But I don't see the bottom falling out on the Eagles at all. I think they'll still be right in the thick of it in the NFC East and as the season goes on. You know, for other teams, that that's a huge challenge, right? Because when you don't have that stability or that culture set in place and you're just trying to kind of stay above water, it's really hard to be able to make some of the moves that the Eagles, you know, did like with the trade, you know, trading Jurgens, right? Like That's hard for another team to do when you're trying to build something, you know. And so I think that's where teams like the Jets and other teams, it's so challenging to just turn your program around when, you know, winning hasn't been a part of your fabric for such an extended period of time. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: You know, the the Eagles are a fascinating test case and Roderick and I are are are kinda again old school in the you know, you s kind of start up front and then you build out from there. With them going in su with such a transition their offensive line, it'll be really interesting kind of see how they evolve and and how their fortunes go. But setting that aside, why has it been so hard for them to find an offensive coordinator that they could live with really since, I don't know, I mean I guess since Kellen Moore left. I mean, it seems it's been it's been one a series of one year guys. What do you attribute that to? Greg Nejmeh: Yeah. Well, I think there's a couple of things that like they they have a if you even go back a couple of years, like their talent, right, especially on the offensive line, has always been in the top five in the league, right? When they had AJ Brown, Devonta, like that's they got talent at receiver, they got talent at at tight end when Goddard was kind of, you know, in his prime, right? Obviously you say quan at running back. I think sometimes having all of that, there's an expectation that and obviously you've got a you've got a quarterback, and I I own I know he's not, you know. doesn't put up the gaudiest of numbers, but he does a lot of really good things on the football field that impact wins and losses, right? He's just a different type of player. But when you have all of that, I think sometimes the expectations are so high that you're going to score so many points and you're going to do when they don't, there's this there's this friction, right, that's created. But when you really watch them, you know, they don't play like an explosive brand of offensive football. They haven't been built that way. They've been built to sustain long drives, to control the clock, to get the lead in the fourth quarter, and then to let their defense rush the passer. Right. And so I think some of the issues with with the coordinators there is is what the expectations are based on their their talent level, right? Or at at least as you would perceive it. But, you know, they've won so many games, like regardless of how many points you score a game, like the job of the offensive coordinator, just like the D coordinator and head coach, is to win. You know? And so To me, it's it's a tough spot to be in as an offensive coordinator, right? Because you have a really challenging fan base, you have really high expectations and really high standards and a lot of talent on your team. so it's kind of like what do you want to be? Do you want to be one of those teams that, hey, we're gonna score, you know, twenty-eight to thirty-five a game, right? But you know, we might go ten and six doing that. Or do we wanna try to be twelve and f you know, or ten and seven now and or twelve and five? Right. but and be better off in the playoffs when the games are tight and prepare us for that. So that's how I see it. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's f and expectations it it's probably goes to that point what you s said again, organizationally, when you have some sound structure, when you have had some sustaining, again, internally, the Eagles probably know who they are. Those expectations from the outside, again, they're not gonna phase Howie and Nick and some of those people in the building as much. Again, for teams the Titans, the Jets, the Cardinals right now, teams where it hasn't been that way, those expectations can be a little bit louder in the building with ownership. Again, I remember going through it, going from Kyle Shanahan to Steve Sarkeesian in Atlanta. Our numbers were very, very similar from Super Bowl run to playoffs, and yet it felt like Sark was completely underachieving. Again, all going back to man, the expectations only grew. when you make that run. So again, I expectations again, it all goes back to that sound franchise with a good established building, right? Greg Nejmeh: That's right. That's a great point. And honestly, I think like that's one of the things that I as much as I love football and love the game and my time in the NFL, like one of the things that I just wish was different, right? Is that like the the perception and the expectations, everyone is such a prisoner of the moment. Like week to week, every team is either they're gonna win the Super Bowl or everyone needs to get fired, right? There's like zero in between. And and people just don't have like the patience or the context anymore to let things play out, right? So, you know, you need ownership to be able to say, We're not gonna we're not gonna listen, or not even ownership really, like the whole the buy-in from the whole building to understand that these things take time. And not only do they take time, but there's gonna be ups and downs along the way, and there's gonna be adversity and hard times, and but the more stability that you can, you know, hopefully develop. over time that's gonna lead to more success than just, you know, continuing to try to change year in and year out. but it is very hard. You know, when you're O and five or whatever you are with some of these teams, like it's it it's very hard to to block out that stuff and to continue to believe in what you're doing and what you're building. And there there comes a part where you're trying to help. Like you think you're trying to help and provide thoughts and advice because you want to win and you want to provide, you know, provide value to the cause, right? But, you know, at the same time, like there's a fine line between that and just being like, we're we believe in what we're doing and the results will show eventually. But that's just not the reality in the NFL anymore, unfortunately. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So true. Now, speaking not specifically of the Eagles, but maybe mirroring their model, let's say. Let's say you're an NFL team with a bad offensive line, but you have your draft picks, all your draft picks, and a decent cat picture. How long should it take you to go from bad to decent, from decent to good, from good to elite? If we again, if we have fundamentally believe that the O line is a critical part of your of your team and and your success. Greg Nejmeh: Yeah. I think if you're able to build the O line, like I think it can happen pretty quickly. just because you don't need like in the NFL with the rules and all that sort of stuff, like you don't need to be able to drop back seven step and throw the ball downfield all the time to be able to have great success, right? So as long as you have kind of a controlled passing game, you have receivers on the outside that can make some plays for you after the catch, combined with a good offensive line where you can run the ball, you can pick up short yardage situations and extend drives. I think it can happen quickly. I think the other thing that I that I believe outside from talent and building a team, right, is once you start to win, you know, three, four games. I think Jacksonville's like to me is a great example of this, right? Like they they began to believe how to win early on, right? They beat some teams that probably were above their weight or their talent level early on when when Liam Cohen got the job there, right? And they began to believe how to win. And so To me, that is infectious, right? And I I think the O-line's a great way to start there. but I don't think it's the only way because I do I do think once that belief starts to happen within the building and you can feel it start to turn, you know, you're only a game or two away from like really turning it, you know, at that point and sustaining it for you know for a handful of years. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Okay. Now with respect to the draft, Greg, we're seeing more inside linebackers, guards, safeties and the and running backs go in the first round. Is this a reflection of how the NFL game is being played, or is it an evolution in how teams see modern roster management being done? Greg Nejmeh: I th I think it's a combination of a couple of things. I I do think where the like especially at linebacker and safety and that's I think where the game is going from a defensive standpoint, like we talked about earlier, like the ability to run sideline to sideline, close down lanes and gaps, and you know, those guys impact both the run in the pass game probably, you know, more or just as much as more than corners, I would say, when you when you talk about both phases, right? But just as much as the guys up front. And so I do think it's a it's partially that. I think it's also also partially the college game. There's just more of those guys at this point, right? And then you think about the guards, that's an interesting one, right? Like I wouldn't have thought that necessarily until you until you said that, but it makes sense because who's blocking the linebackers often, right? It's the guards that need to try to match up with them and and be able to get out and get to the second level and that sort of stuff. So I do think that's part of it. I I think the other thing is And we always tried to put a premium on, you know, what we thought were the priority of premium positions within our scheme and all that sort of stuff, as as everyone does. You know, some schemes do value linebackers or safeties as the premium position, right? It just depends on like what scheme you're scouting for. I think the the next layer of that is just people want to pick good football players, and having as many good football players on your team, regardless of what the position they're at, is gonna help. it it's better than you know, you're better off hitting a single or a double than than striking out, right? And so I think there's just more of those guys in college and there's more tape on those guys and they they're contributing members of the team. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Okay. Excuse me. Okay. So what is the most important hire on a college team, on a college team making transition here, after the head coach? Is it the GM? Is it the strength coach? The offensive or defense coordinator? Someone else. What do you think? Greg Nejmeh: That's a great one. I think you know, and obviously like with the w with the stuff I do now, I I get to kind of have a front row seat as I'm sure Roger does with some of this stuff, right? And I think the thing that I see is the the the college world is such a a head coach centric model, right? And it has been that way for years. I don't necessarily necessarily see that changing, right? but I do think hiring a general manager, in my opinion, that is and I'm not saying they need to be an NFL guy, like at by any means. Right. I I'm I'm wherever whatever their background is, it's someone that can be a true peer and sounding board to that head coach, right? Because I think coaches by nature, right, like they're in and they should be, and this isn't a criticism of them. They they're gonna they're gonna worry about what do we need to do today, tomorrow to win the next game, right? and that's that's a hard way to build a roster when you have to allocate resources now. Right. And so I think being able to have someone that the head coach respects enough to say, you know what? He's right. We need to let's let's pump the brakes on this. Let's make a a more long term decision in some cases. So I think it is the GM as long as that is kind of the dynamic between the head coach and the GM. You know, I I think it's hard to say, well, it's just the GM if that's not kind of the setup or the or the relationship between the two of them, because then in that case I I I think it's probably more like a player development person that can really not only develop people and and and help them off the field, but can also there's a clear development plan for them as a player there because I think retention is such an important piece of this and having a player development and player performance staff, like in my opinion, goes a really long way to being able to do that. So but I do think it's the GM as long as that's the right setup. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah, Greg, again, even five years ago when I was on the road and going back, you know, the teens, it was the strength coach. The head coach and the strength coach. Those two were tied at the hip because the strength coach was spending so much time not in season with these guys. Again, you could I don't want to say get around the rules, but those guys could just go hang out in the weight room and you know whatever like that was a different group. You get five of those, and again, we think about some of the big salaries back in the day. Like your number two salary probably on that team for many teams. Again, I I think of Urban Meyer and Mick Marathi again from Florida to Ohio. Like that was it. And again, with that dynamic, that mutual respect that we're in it together, that we can talk to e each other right now at the college game. And I agree with you, it is GM, but so many of these GMs are As as I saw, as Neil saw at the recruiting and personnel symposium, twenty somethings that have almost no life experience that are very much there because you know, probably the head coach is going to be able to tell them exactly what they want. Now go do my bidding type of thing. The good again, from where you've sat, the work you're doing, is this something? Hey, the good programs are getting away from that. Well, the programs, it's a very short-term thing that Is gonna come back to bite them in the long term. Greg Nejmeh: I I do think I do think it can it can certainly be something that comes back to bite in the long term. I I think the the head coach hire, as we've all discussed, outside of that, you know, the head coach hire is the most important hire in a college football program. But I so I think a lot of these schools as they think about these hires, right, is like those are those are really good questions to be able to ask some of these head coaches, right? Because Where they're willing and the head coach is secure enough and comfortable enough and confident enough in his ability to coach the team that he wants someone that is going to provide the right challenge to him at the appropriate time, the right sounding board, someone that he sees that's been in, you know, again, you don't have to be in the NFL, but just has been in these types of decisions and these discussions at a high level before. I think that's really gonna be a much better setup long term for for a lot of these programs. And you know, I the the team I'm I'm blessed to work with a with a handful of teams that I think the people are outstanding at, right? and they're future stars, not only in college, but beyond that. But there's so many colleges around the country, just the sheer numbers of them, like those are few and far between in all likelihood, you know? And so I think it's really, it's really challenging. I think the other thing that kind of I guess masks it a little bit is when you do have some success early on, right? Everyone thinks, great, great, this is this is awesome. But but you know, you don't see the impact of some of those things until year two, year three, year four, right? And so I think some of that is, you know, it'll be interesting to monitor and track moving forward. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah, like you said, prisoner of the moment, right? Greg Nejmeh: Yeah, yeah. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Greg, let's put you in the shoes of a college head head coach. You've got an opportunity to hire as GM either an A one evaluator, a guy that really knows players and how to find talent, or an A one administrator and cap guy that really knows salaries and tracking all the money and all those kind of things. Which one do you hire if you're a college head coach? Greg Nejmeh: Well, I think so I'll answer the question kind of holistically, but I'll provide a little bit of context. I think if your head coach that is is going to be involved in the evaluation process at a high level, right, then complementing that with someone who might be more of a cat background, I think makes sense. If you are going to be more of I'm coaching the team and I'm going to recruit the players that that, you know, you guys provide me, well, then you need to get a high level of value. But I will say this. I think, and I'm not just saying this because my background is in scouting, as as you know, we're all passionate about, right? The the talent evaluation piece to this whole thing in college is so vital and so important because you know it is not there the the portal is not set up to be able to find it it's a bidding war, right? It's not it's not set up to be able to find value. And where you can have evaluators that really can canvas and find legitimate value in players and understand football at a high level. I still think that's going to make a greater impact on your team than how you structure contracts and salary cap and all that sort of stuff. Part partially because the rules don't set up great for the the, you know, on on the on the administrative side of things, right? Like you could be elite at what you do, but there's still some limitations there with Conference rules and all that sort of stuff, right? And that's I think that's gonna be getting better, but currently I still think that's a limitation. So I still lean towards like evaluating at all levels and finding great value for your roster is gonna make the greatest impact. But I do think it depends a little bit on the makeup of the head coach and what his involvement is gonna be in each of those. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: In your conversations with teens, Greg, are you seeing coaches who are typically very territorial on the college side, obviously, starting to be more accepting of the role of the GM and of the evaluators, the DPPs, what have you? Are do you see them letting loose more of the evaluation part of their job? Or do you see that they are still they want their guys and they can? coach they can see players and they can coach ball and they are still a little reluctant to hand that over to as you s you know as we've said, younger people who are still not don't have as many skins on the wall, let's say. Are are they are we seeing that metamorphosis take place or is it still going to take a little more time? Greg Nejmeh: I do see it starting to sh to take shape just because I think they realize the you know how challenging all of this is, right? Like I think it it it comes more from a place of like to win, we need to be able to do these things, you know. look, I still think and I I can't speak to the programs that I that I don't work with, right? you know, the ones that I do, they're f they're phen like I said, I'm blessed to work with them. They're phenomenal people. Head coaches, personnel staff, like they they do things the right way. but I I just think that some of these head some head coaches, they're realizing now like I have to be able to evolve, I have to be able to trust, I have to be able to help help have people help me do do this part of my job, right? Because it's no longer just recruit and coach, recruit that's that's not it anymore, right? There's this whole other layer. That is just as big. And to be honest with you, it's probably when you start to bring in the financials to it, right? Like that, that that can cause either more problems or more prosperity when you bring in the financial component to it, right? Because now there's there's donors involved and there's other people that are involved in these decisions. And so I think I do think I see I see more coaches than not being able to lean into that. And I I think the ones that don't necessarily do that, like they're, you know, you it's kind of like the old saying, like you evolve adapt or die. You know, like you have to be able to, like to it helps you do a better job as a head coach. When you have people that can evaluate as a high level for you and bring you the right players that you want, then great. You can start to focus on these other aspects of the job. So I do see it happening more, but it's it's not fully there yet by any stretch. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Okay, as the modern college GM has evolved, in my opinion, and I think Roderick would probably share this, we're seeing most often him most often being a close ally of the head coach who reports to the head coach, who is hired basically because the head coach kind of gave him his stamp of approval. Is this the right model, Greg? And does a GM need to have more separation than that? Should a GM actually report to the AD? Because again, Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: With so much transition of coaches, the GMs have got an opportunity to spend a lot of money for a team and maybe on the way out. Then sometimes that GM may be on the way out. He could have nefarious purposes, I guess, if he wanted to. And what are your thoughts there? Should there be kind of more again, more more power Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: leaning towards the A D, more so than the head coach? Greg Nejmeh: That's a great question. I I think the the mo and I said this earlier on, like it's such a head coach centric model, right? Like when you start when you start doing that, you know, I think every college program is gonna say, Well, is that gonna hinder our chances to be able to get the head coach that we want? Right. Because is the head coach gonna say, Well, wait, hold on. I thought I report to the A D and the president, right, of the of the school. So this GM that I may not know, he all do I report to him, right? And so I think I think that's the challenging thing. Like it's easy to say in a vacuum, yeah, I think that makes sense. But I think if you're the school thinking about it, you're like, well, we want to make sure that we're we're getting the best up you know, that we have the best opportunity to get the coach that we want, right? And so I think that's where some of the friction comes in. You know, to say which model is the best or or not, I don't know that it matters as much. Do they report to the AD or not? I think what matters most is is what I said earlier is the dynamic between the head coach and the general manager. You know, I think the GM can report to the head coach as long as the head coach sees him as a peer and someone that he respects and they can have open, honest conversations and it's not just a person that is, you know, essentially doing what the head coach wants in every case, right? Like there has to be some healthy back and forth there. I think if that's the case, then then it's fine, you know, with them with them working hand in hand. Because I think that relationship is so important. Like go those are the two people that are tasked with building the team together. And that's the case even in the NFL, right? Like not every not every GM, you know, some GMs and head coaches, they're on equal an equal playing field, right? Where they both report to ownership. S some most cases, yes, the head coach does report to the GM, but there's a handful where the GM doesn't have final say over the head coach, right? So I think it's more about the relationship between those two people than what the reporting structure. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's probably fair. All right. So let's talk about let's let's have a little fun here. Let's talk about some drafts that you're a part of in New York. I gotta be honest, and I gotta tell you, and I should have done my homework beforehand. I was really surprised y'all didn't win best draft for 2022. Fur fourth pick in the first round, Toss Garter. tenth pick in the first round, Garrett Wilson. Greg Nejmeh: Me too, Neil. Yeah. No, joke. Yeah. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: 36th pick in the second round, Brees Hall, and then there's Jermaine Johnson in there who I was in there in the mix as well. who has also had success. the third the third first rounder for you all, 26th overall. That's four pretty damn good players. You got the you drafted the O P O Y and the D P O Y in the same year. DR I'm sorry, defensive rookie of the year and the offensive rookie rather than player. Yeah. How did that all I mean How did it all come together so well for you that year, Greg? When did you know this was going to be a special draft class? That was, I mean, just a phenomenal haul right there. Give us a little bit of the the details in the background there. Greg Nejmeh: Sure. Well, there's a couple guy I if I'm not mistaken, some of the drafts blur together a little bit for me. But I believe we also had Max Mitchell in the fourth round that in that draft and he's still, you know, a really good swing tackle, right? That was great value. I Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Yeah. Yeah. Greg Nejmeh: can't remember if Jeremy Rucker was that or the year third round, Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Third round. Yeah. Greg Nejmeh: you know, and so those are all guys that have gotten extended and played and, you know, those those are guys too that like, yeah, they may not be the household names, but like where we drafted them and what their careers have become have been, you know, really you know, great value there. But Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Every player in that draft class still active, Greg. Hats off. Greg Nejmeh: Yeah, right. And you know, I think we had obviously the fourth and the tenth pick and we felt like we had a lot of flexibility there, you know, and we were we were ending the first year where we coach Salah had come in and implement implemented a new defensive scheme that we had had before. And co Jeff Albrich, who I think is one of the best defensive coordinators in the league, we had struggled year one, right? And so there was an emphasis on, you know, how do we get the defense better, right? And we felt like that year we did a we did a good job in free agency of getting the front better. And the best complement to that was gonna be to now get our corners at a level where the guys can really pin their ears back and we can rush with four. And we had a lot of really great conversations about that. So, like prior to that, free agency, we signed DJ Reed, who was gonna be our other corner, right? And that was one of the reasons we felt like we were really good. We we really wanted to draft Sauce because we thought they complimented each other. and they would both really help our front, right? So that was kind of how the the conversation in terms of how we wanted to help our defense went with Sauce. And then, you know, Garrett was a guy who we just felt like from a talent standpoint was like we we loved him, right? He fit the exact we he transcends scheme. Like I'm not, you know, saying he's a scheme specific player, but In particular him, he fit how we wanted to run the offense at the time. Like his ability to kind of get outside his frame as a route runner, his lower body explosiveness, his ball skills, all those sorts of things. and we felt like they were two guys that could be absolute stars in in both of our schemes and our systems. The great thing about both of them, and I'll get to Jermaine and Brees in a minute, but we had such great alignment between our scouting staff and our coaching staff on what the vision was for each of those players that you know they were I mean we had no discussion really at that point when they were on the clock. You know, it was it was so clear you know, for us that like the we were like, yep, turn it in, we're good. You know, and our process leading up to that was great. I think obviously it helps when you do have four the fourth and the tenth pick, right? Like you you can really hone in on what you think your options are going to be. at that point so you can really take it to the next level. But you know, obviously those guys have gone on to both make a lot of money and have really good careers. You know, Jermaine and Brees, that was an interesting one. Jermaine, we had tried to top to trade up from We had two second round picks and we had tried to trade up multiple times. I believe we started calling somewhere around the 15th pick. you know, we we had Jermaine obviously we ended up grafting Garrett at 10, but Jermaine was one of the players in that discussion at 10 too. So once he kind of got to 14, 15, you know, we felt like, all right, this is another rusher. That we can bring. He also can play on first and second down. He's a physical tone setter. our defensive coaches at the time, Aaron Whitecotton, Jeff Ulbrick, Coach Sala, like they loved him. Our scouts loved him. we felt like we needed to try to go up and get this guy. And we called, I remember Joe Calling for probably about an hour and a half. And and then we finally got a deal. I think he was twenty-sixth or twenty-eighth pick, I rem if I remember correctly. I believe it was with the Titans too, if I if I remember correctly. But you know, in Jermaine twenty six. Yeah. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Twenty six. He was twenty six kids. Yeah. Greg Nejmeh: Yep. And Jermaine, you know, I think Jermaine's a really good player. Yeah, he had the Achilles injury year two, which kind of, you know, I think, you know, hurt his development a little bit, but then came back and played pretty good football. but what a lot of people don't know is we actually tried to trade up into the first round a fourth time to get Brees later that night. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Mm-hmm. Greg Nejmeh: And That was how we like that was how strongly we felt about Brees. we felt like he was a first round talent, obviously running backs, you know, you can talk about positional value and all that sort of stuff, but we we made efforts to get back up after we got Jermaine to get back up and get and get Brees in the first round because we really didn't want to risk losing them. I can't remember exactly where we were I wanna say we were maybe forty thirty-eighth or fortieth, and I believe the Giants were like thirty-fifth, if I remember correctly. And so we we had gotten some pretty good intel that he wasn't gonna go in the first whatever it was, two or three picks of the second round and kind of lead in the day leading up to the second round, we had worked out a deal with the I believe it was with the Giants to go to thirty five or thirty six, whatever he ended up being picked, and trade But a lot of those conversations we had started them the night before 'cause we tried to trade up in the first round and get So yeah, great, you know, credit to Joe Douglas, obviously our GM at the time. He he did a phenomenal job. Our college scouts did a phenomenal job identifying those players and the coaching staff. You know, really like it's never just one person, right? It's it's all of those things being one cohesive unit. And then the trades that we made, like go going up to get Jermaine and going up to get you know, Brees in the second round, like, you know, our football administration people had to do a great job of understanding that value. you know. myself and our pro scouts, we had to do a great job of understanding who we thought we could trade up with, and who wasn't gonna take these players and who we needed to get in front of in that strategy. And so Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: Mm-hmm. Greg Nejmeh: it was it was an all encompassing thing and it's a draft that, you know, I take a a ton of pride in, as should everybody who was a part of Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Neil, I know you want to get the quarterback questions, but I I want to get even further into the weeds on this one because Greg, my I 2016 was my first year with the Falcons. You and you talk about that alignment. Coaches, scouts, everybody being on the same page. Like these are our guys. They fit. It also works out that hey, we think we can get them here because that's always a part of it. Is like, hey, you can love the players, but they're all going to be gone by the time we draft. Again, we had Keanu Neal, Deion Jones, Austin Hooper, Devondre Campbell, Wes Schweitzer, again, a bunch of starters. And again, I remember that year as opposed to other years where there was a lot more of that debate. Hey, scouts like this guy a little more, coaches are leaning over here a little bit more. Greg Nejmeh: Mm-hmm. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Big picture with the Jets, was that something that like it was noticeable, especially as you look back now? The years where there was More alignment, everything worked out better, years where there was more debate, more swings and misses there. Greg Nejmeh: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I I was there with four different GMs and five head coaches, I believe, or f four and four, whatever it was. It was it was a lot, right? And I I learned from every one of them, right? And I learned, you know, how different ways to do things, how to do things, in some cases how not to do things. You know, the last four years I was there with with Coach Salah and Joe, like though they had such great alignment between the two of them, and they fostered an environment where our our personnel staff and our coaching staff was in constant communication about these things, right? There was not a separation of church and state. Like it was we we talked all the time about it, right? And we would hash out disagreements. And sometimes we would continue to disagree, but we would have the conversation about it, right? And to me, those things helped us so much. and the other thing is, especially on the defensive side of the ball, like we stayed in the same scheme for four years. Right. So it goes it goes back to, you know, the stability Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Big. Yeah. Greg Nejmeh: point that we we talked about before. So like we knew what would and what wouldn't fit much quicker than every time you got to kind of change a scheme, right? so that helped a ton. And the other thing that the coaches and Coach Silo and Coach Ulbrick do, you know, deserve a ton of credit for is when they are starting to maybe change an aspect of their scheme, right? Like they communicated that to us. And then we had the opportunity to ask questions back about it so we could understand it. you know, Mike LaFleur was our offensive coordinator the first couple of years. I remember him putting together a tape for us to say, here are the things that we want to try to identify. So, like those things helped so much from a scouting standpoint because it helps you identify the players for the for the staff. And when the staff's invested in it, right? Like that's when you're gonna see the the return on investment. But it's a huge challenge to do that. but to me, that was like the best example of it, and it's a model that like For me, if I was ever on the team side again, I would want to duplicate that because, you know, we we didn't win we didn't get over the hump like we hoped we would, right? And there's a lot of other things that are out of our control. But the parts of it that we could control, we did at like a really high level. And and and I take a ton of pride in. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah, absolutely. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: I'm not ready to move on yet, Rodrick Greg Nejmeh: Yeah. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: actually. one I it was a great that year was a great draft for wide receivers, okay? At eight, Drake London, USC goes to Atlanta. Obviously, Garrett Wilson went to y'all at 10. Chris Olave out of Ohio State goes to the Saints at eleven. Jamison Williams out of Alabama to the Lions at 12. There was a just a real cluster there. of wide receivers, I would argue that three of the four are stars now, but all four are hits. Do you remember how you stacked the board? Were was was Garrett the one that you wanted? Was he was he one A? I mean, was it was it would that would all four of those been look good in a Jets jersey? I mean what are your thoughts there? What what do you recall recall there? Greg Nejmeh: Yeah, I think, you know, all those guys are great players in their own right. They're all a little different too, right? Like Drake London is not the dynamic separator, but he's unguardable because of his size and strength and ability to play above the rim. You know, Olave is such a speed threat and has great tracking and ball skills. And he can run routes too, but like he really threatens with his speed. You know, Garrett was for us like just this dynamic separator that could do so many different things you know in your offense and then Jameson was a little bit more like Olave but was coming off of the injury, right? And so there was there was a lot of talk around all of those things. Like at the end of the day, I think we would have been we would have been comfortable with any one of those players, right? And had in the impact that they had you know, on on our team really. But, you know, Garrett was the one I think that we felt like we had the most kind of consensus and conviction about, you know, and i the thing that makes Garrett Garrett is who he is as a person too, right? And that I think all those guys, you know, I don't that's not to say that those other guys don't bring that, but we just like I, you know, Garrett is somebody I had a great relationship when I when I was there. He's such a he's such a grounded person and he's so confident in his ability, but he's really grounded in how he goes about his craft. And he's highly competitive and He he hates losing. And those were all the things that we wanted to kind of bring into the room, right? And so, you know, for us he he had the most, I guess, consensus. But, you know, honestly, all those players, you're you're happy with any of them, and I think we would have been as well. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: All right, so let's move on to quarterbacks. Greg, during your time there, BYU Zach Wilson, USC Sam Darnold, and West Virginia's Geno Smith, all drafted by the Jets. Two of the three have gone on to s at least some measure of success in the league. We'll say Zach Wilson's kind of bounced around a little bit. Why did they not work out in New York, Greg? Greg Nejmeh: Yeah. well, look, if I knew the true answer to that, you know, you know, w who knows? We might have a couple Super Bowl rings now. But no, I I think each one's different, right? You know, I would start with Gino. Like I was a young scout when I scouted Gino and I I loved him. I loved his ability to throw the ball. I thought he had above average athleticism. I thought he was so productive in college. you know, he had a really good rookie year. Like when you look back at it for us, like a lot of people don't remember that, but we went eight and eight. And he had a good rookie year. Obviously there were some ups and downs, but he did a lot of really good things. and I think it kind of goes a little bit back to the expectation conversation that we had before. You know, you go eight and eight as a rookie team maybe overachieved a little bit and there were these expectations that now we need to be a playoff team. And then we kind of came back down to earth. And then, you know, that the the New York market, they they're not very forgiving in in that world, right? And so I think that affects things. You know, and then there was, you know, if I I believe, you know, Rex had gotten let go and and there was there was a you know a regime change happening. That obviously affects Gino. You know, with Sam, like Sam's just a a phenomenal, like, I mean, obviously a player, but right, but just a person and all the things he stands for. And I remember like, you know, when we were moving on from him, like I remember we all felt like We want Sam to go do well just 'cause of the person that he is, right? But that was another situation where he was drafted third overall. He'd showed a lot of really good flashes his rookie year. There was a regime change, and then now the expectations were higher and and his performance was a little bit uneven. you know, with those two guys specifically, 'cause I think they're the they're the easiest ones to talk about 'cause you've seen the success that they've now had in their career, right? You know, I I I think the Why they didn't work out is is equal parts the organization, it's equal parts and that's not just the Jets. I mean that's just that's same thing with Baker Mayfield, right? Like it's it's the the regime change or the the expectations versus the lack of success or consistent success. It's also them as players. They're twenty one, twenty-two years old, like learning and maturing. I mean, we we were all very different people when we were twenty seven, twenty-eight, as opposed to when we were twenty one, twenty two, right? And so I think that's that's a huge part of it. And I think the last the common denominator through all of it is just what the New York media and market kind of is, right? And it is it is as challenging as any in in probably the world of sports. And if you don't have success early on or you don't reach expectations early on, they're really not very forgiving in any way, shape, or form. And that stuff kind of starts to you know, starts to impact like the team to an extent because they have to answer questions about it. It impacts, you know, the the coaches because they've got to answer questions about it. Right. And so it's just not a conducive environment for developing, right? and I'm not saying the NFL necessarily is in general, but I think specific to to to New York, it it's even it's even more challenging to really ride that that development wave. So and then you know with Zach, I think he was A lot of the same similarities, you know, that that I discussed with the other guys. He's a little earlier on in his career than they are right now, you know. But there's so much that goes into developing a quarterback. But at the end of the day, like, you know, the alignment piece that we talked about throughout the entire building has to be in that in that mode of we are developing this guy no matter what, or we're being patient. Maybe we're sitting this guy for a period of time and letting him develop. Right. And none of those guys had that opportunity to do that. And I do think that that probably was a part of it as well. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: It seems like the guys that have at least a few games before they they're thrown into the fire have a better success level. But it's like you said, there's so many different variables when it comes to quarterbacks and you know, wow. It's much smarter men than I have had trouble figuring this stuff out and I'm sure that I it would take I I don't know that I could ever figure it out myself. All Greg Nejmeh: yeah. Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: right, so let's move on to a different position group where y'all had tremendous success. Defensive tackles drafted during your tenure, Mohammed Wilkerson in 2011, Sheldon Richardson, 2013, Quinnen Williams, 2019, all those guys, big hits, day one guys. But lesser known, but still solid players. Nathan Shepard and Fulleron to Farukasi in 2018. And as we mentioned, Michael Clemens in 2022. How were y'all able to have so much success? I mean, virtually every one that you drafted was a big hit for you. How are we all able to do that? Greg Nejmeh: Yeah. Well, the interesting thing about all them is they obviously spanned a lot of different schemes and regimes, right? You know, Mohammed Wilkerson and Sheldon, they were they started off in Rex's scheme, right? Which was which was a different one. And then you know, Quinn was actually in if I remember correctly, started off in Todd Bowl no, no, sorry, Greg Williams scheme, I believe. And, you know, and then So in each one of them were very different and they were very different to scout for. I think the one thing that all of those early draft picks had, right, is they were all big, strong, long, powerful, athletic. Like they had traits that kind of like if you can't find a role for them in your s in your defensive scheme, then you might need to change your defensive scheme, right? But each one of them was also different too, you know, and I I would even throw in there like John Franklin Myers, he wasn't a draft date, but he was a guy that we claim that has gone on to have a a phenomenal career. you know the the each one of those players was talented. they had success early on as a rookie so that they you can see what they're you can see like okay there's something here where we really need to pour you know pour a lot into this player right and I think honestly it also kind of just fits like you know we had we had a lot of defensive coaches when I was there, right? You know, Rex obviously being a defensive guy and Coach Salah and you know top bowls and you know when we had Coach Gase, Greg Williams obviously on the defensive side of the ball was a really you know big personality. Like those each one of those guys fit you know the the the the personality of either the defensive coordinator or the head coach, right? And and they were able to have a ton of success there. And you know I felt like we had you know some really really strong defensive lines and I felt like that was our identity really in in Neil Stratton @InsidetheLeague: That's when you've got those kind of players, I I would would not disagree with you. All right. So, Greg, it has been a great almost hour. Before we let you go, what advice would you give someone who wants a career in scouting today? And would you encourage them to go all in on pursuing the NFL? Or do you think the college football landscape offers a clear path for someone who wants to be a professional evaluator these days? Greg Nejmeh: Well, I think the first thing I would tell them is, you know, you can't ever learn enough. You know, I continue to this day. Like I I evolve as a scout and as an evaluator with the work I do now. Like I I never enter into something thinking I have all the answers, right? I'm I'm constantly evaluating myself. So trying to reach out and lean into people that have a lot of experience to just continue to learn. and then at the end of the day, like you have to go do it. Like there's nothing like reps. Like you have to watch players, you have to understand the things that that you're looking for, you do have to understand, like I think, scheme to an extent so that you understand what fits and all that sort of stuff. but just just go do it right. And and I I got this piece of advice I I learned a great lesson when I was early on is I can't necessarily share the story because I don't I don't want to share the story, but but what one coach told me, we were in a scouting meeting, we're discussing players on our own roster. And I had one guy that was a pretty popular player that was ranked I I ranked him pretty low in the position group, right? And you know, the head coach and GM at the time didn't like that, right? Or didn't agree with that. I shouldn't say they didn't like it, they didn't agree with it. But I just said what I said. I I went with what I saw, right? And I and I and I articulated it. And it wasn't in a combative way, it was just very matter of fact. And as the season went on, one of our other coaches grabbed me at the end of the year and he goes, Hey Remember that meeting the start of the year when you said this and everyone kinda, you know, gave you a hard time and he goes, Well, you ended up being right. And he goes, Don't ever, don't ever go back on, you know, what you what you truly think and what in in in what your opinion is. Because a lot of times in scouting, these things aren't determined right away. You know, like time needs to go on to really determine whether your evaluation was right or wrong. So speak your mind, but continue to learn all the time. I think that would be it. And then You know, as it relates to the NFL or college, I certainly think there's probably a lot more opportunity in the college world right now, you know, because I just think that that's those staffs are are are growing. They need the help, right? And I think you're gonna learn more being there just because you'll have a lot more responsibility, probably at a younger age when it comes to true hands on scouting, that you can then parlay into the NFL if you want to. But You know, I wouldn't necessarily prioritize one over the other. Like I would if I were young, I would operate dual paths, but I would look at college as like a phenomenal point to start. because I just think you're gonna you're in some ways the college scouting is is even more challenging than some of the stuff you have to do, you know, i with NFL scouting. So I think it'll prepare a young scout to be even better and more ready when they get to the Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah. Absolutely, Greg. Well, this has been fantastic. If anybody has more questions for Greg, they can find him. Twitter, Instagram, check the show notes for the links. Greg Nezma four is where you can find him. any predictions as we get you we're getting close to halfway through. Anything that you're really looking forward to, we want to leave the listeners with as we as we wrap up today. Greg Nejmeh: You know, I think as I as I watch these NFL games, it's so interesting, right? Because I think there's teams that are like, you know, five and four and one, and I still don't necessarily know if that's what they are yet. You know, and I think it's one of those years where like look, obviously I think there's certain teams that are gonna be in the mix, but I think it's one of those years where you've got teams, you know, like we talked about the Eagles or even last year the Patriots or, you know, the Seahawks, like the teams that were in the thick of it that are still kind of figuring it out, right? And so I don't have a prediction yet. other than that I think it's been an awesome year so far. And I think that it's gonna be one of those seasons where like I don't I couldn't tell you right now, if you told me it was one of ten teams, I would say, Yeah, I could see them winning the Super Bowl, you know, which is which is a cool thing to to kind of see. So we'll check back in, you know, mid January, I'll have a better idea at that point of the way the what they might win. So Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: Yeah. that's exactly what Commissioner Goodell wants is every Greg Nejmeh: That's right. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: fan base believes they have a chance at this point. Again, some of those a little more delusional than others, but everybody's got a chance. And at the college level, it's gonna be fun. We're gonna see another new number one, new number ones as the year goes. I don't think we need to debate the number one prospect because as the number four in your handle, again, number four is real Jeremiah Smith. Again, we're just gonna leave it at that. But Greg Nejmeh: Yeah, yeah. Rodrik David @RightStepAdv: again Lots of fun, Greg. Really appreciate Greg Nejmafor is where you can find him. Really appreciate you being on with us. Greg Nejmeh: Appreciate you guys having me. It was a blast.