Latest / Sex Advice for Seniors Podcast / Sex, Chocolate & Midlife Desire: How to Reclaim Your Pleasure in Menopause with Dr. Kelly Barron

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Sex, Chocolate & Midlife Desire: How to Reclaim Your Pleasure in Menopause with Dr. Kelly Barron · Sex Advice for Seniors Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Intimacy doesn't have an age limit and Oh My Bod is redefining pleasure
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: with beautifully designed, tech-savvy wellness products.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Rediscover connection and confidence at ohmybod.com.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's O-H-M-I-B-O-D dot com.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, this is Suzanne, and you're listening to Sex Advice for Seniors.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know about you, but I'm a massive lover of chocolate.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, when I was in Southeast Asia, I got a bit addicted.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went to Vietnam and I found some chocolate there called Mr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Viet, which I had to bring back.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I came back from Southeast Asia with about six bars of chocolate that I gave out
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: to my friends.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: But of course,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone who's a lover of chocolate and a woman will know that there's
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: a legitimate reason why women especially like chocolate.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because chocolate makes us happy.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I believe that's actually a scientific fact that chocolate makes us happy.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I was so delighted to be able to talk about one of my favorite topics,
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: chocolate,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: with someone who understands I only just discovered has developed a brand
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: of chocolate that helps a woman with their libido.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like my two braver topics.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: One, I'm so excited to have this conversation.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm welcoming Dr. Kelly Barron.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: She's in Charleston, South Carolina.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: She's got this brand of chocolate called Dr. Kelfire.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Kelly, how did this all start?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it all started,
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: and thank you for having me on the show,
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: and we're going to get to talk about chocolate and sex,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: so I couldn't be more excited right now.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: I started,
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I had designed a few chocolate formulas that I thought,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: like, women, just like you said, women in chocolate, how can we make it therapeutic?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we came up with three chocolates originally.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Scorched Earth, which was our hormone balancing PMS chocolate.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that's a match made in heaven.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: That right there is a match made in heaven.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: We came up with Hot Mess, which is a mushroom chocolate.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was more for anxiety and stress again.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: What woman wouldn't love that?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then it misbehave.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a chocolate that has fenugreek, maca, and ashwagandha in it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So to support desire,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: support those feelings,
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: give you a little energy,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: give you that's,
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I call it the oxytocin effect,
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: more or less,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: that just like, I'm comfortable, I'm happy, you're looking very cute over there.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And also it could be great for solo.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So either way, it has,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: it morphed though, because those three particular herbs are also good for males.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we see a lot of couples buy it and sort of do the date night thing as part of their ritual.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: we go on a date,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: have the chocolate,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's just all fun and it makes everything, you know, just that much better.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's so cool.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so did you have a background in making chocolate?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had a background in eating chocolate, but I did not have a background in making chocolate.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: In fact,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: our manufacturer acquired a company and with that company came equipment
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: to make chocolate.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And while I was developing the other supplements,
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: the usual suspects,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: protein, greens, drinks, and things like that, he talked to me about the chocolate.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: He said, what do you think about doing something though in chocolate?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: We have this equipment.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, Yeah, can we do that?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so we collaborated together on R&D and how this was going to go about.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then the rest is history.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And is it dark milk chocolate?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And is it bars like truffles?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what does it look like?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So chocolate, this is something that I learned.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody looks at the percentage of cacao and chocolate.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: When our bars first came out,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: we had 60% cacao and we're like, okay, well, we're milk chocolate.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not the case.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's no milk product in my chocolate.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's technically a dark chocolate.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Milk would be up to 35%.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a dark chocolate product.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we originally had it in a bar where you just broke off a piece.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not very sexy when it's a couple.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So what we did is we created a box that has individually wrapped.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So...
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can have one and have all the fun you want on your own or with your partner
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: or you both can have one.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: The object or the thought behind the process was like you could be really sexy.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: You could throw them in your purse.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: You could take them when you travel or you could just leave it by your bed stand.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: My...
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: One of the women in the company,
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: my partner Kat,
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: she and I created,
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: we just got a little fancy one day and we started making things with the chocolate.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we dipped strawberries in the chocolate and we made sure we got a full serving
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: on like two strawberries or we shaved it on an espresso martini.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: We were just trying to be really creative.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ice cream,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: we did ice cream on top just to make it like You know,
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: bring back the playfulness that we all had in our, all right, we'll say late teens.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: We probably shouldn't say that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or early 20s.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a brilliant idea.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I've not seen anyone else doing that.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And those little wrappers in England, we have something called After Eights.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: They remind me a bit of After Eights,
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: kind of gooey on the inside,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: which is like they're minty and gooey and they're lovely and Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I still have a fondness for after eights as well.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the little packages that you just showed me reminded me of a guy that I was with.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: We had a ritual after we'd have sex where we'd eat chocolate because it just made us feel good.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it was always...
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was always Reese's Peanut Butter Cups.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's phase two.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Phase two.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just think there's something about sex and chocolate that is always,
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: even if we didn't know that it was good for us and for our sex drive,
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: there's something that has drawn us to chocolate when we have sex.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's the ritual.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's the luxury feeling.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It just heightens everything because when you think of a sexual experience
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: and you think, Let's try to set the environment.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let's try to hit all five senses and,
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: taste everybody to go,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: oh, you know, flavored lube or just the taste of skin or whatever you want to go.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And here you have chocolate, too.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can taste your chocolate.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So have you moved beyond South Carolina with this?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Where is it being sold?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have our website, drkelfire.com nationally, and we're on Amazon and we're growing.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're still small and I hope to come out with different versions of the product,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: but it's been a lot of fun.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: We went from a very apothecary style.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've decided we're going with Midnight Carnival.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so our tagline is the show starts when the lights go down.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: And we've kind of got this sexy girl with a top hat and a whip is sort
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: of our mascot now for that.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we just wanted to make it fun and something that intrigued you.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes even...
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Even just seeing the packaging and the colors already kind of gets your brain wired
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: in that direction.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's got a kind of vintage-y feel to it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was like trying or thinking at some point I would love
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: to have just burlesque women,
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: just burlesque influencers,
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: having the chocolate and Doing something with burlesque,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: because that's what the feel has to me too, that very vintage pinup kind of feel.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally saw that when you showed that to me.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: So aside from being a chocolatier now, you're also a menopause specialist.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a chiropractor.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I wondered, that's such an interesting combo.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Why the chiropractor side with the menopause?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do they relate or are they completely separate disciplines for you?
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or how do they work together?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: They actually work pretty seamlessly together because...
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've worn a lot of hats and I graduated chiropractic school in 98.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, my husband and I had had a practice in Denver, Colorado.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then I started having babies because I was in my late 20s.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I really became infatuated with pregnancy,
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: chiropractic,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: the body, how it all worked and I got licensed as an acupuncturist also.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So once I was done in my baby phase, I went into childbirth education.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And from there,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: as part of my specialty,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: and you have chiropractic helps a lot with all the joint issues that go along
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: with pregnancy,
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Webster technique when you have a breech baby, things of that nature.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So then I went into childbirth education And then because I love to learn,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I grew with my patients.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So as they went from their pregnancy,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: childbearing years into perimenopause, which we didn't know a whole lot about.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my mom never talked to me about that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even know what menopause really was.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And my own body was changing so.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I certified as a menopause specialist and a strength and conditioning specialist
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: so that I could continue to work with women on their bodies
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: because they would come saying they have joint pain,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: which no one talks about really,
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: or brain fog or fatigue,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: those issues,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: not necessarily the vasomotor issues like hot flashes and night sweats,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: but more of the daily, my life is changing and I don't quite get it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I learned.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: It goes a lot beyond simply just adjustments and changing things of that nature.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I started working with women in that way,
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: creating different networks for them because I believe women need more than one type
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: of provider at this stage of life,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: someone that specializes in just about everything,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: you know, to kind of go along, mental, physical, you name it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: What really started coming up with women really,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: when they felt comfortable with me, wanted to talk about, but couldn't quite do it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'd sit and have conversations was sex life and sex.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that was their biggest concern.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them could get through hot flashes.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: They could get through night sweats.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: They could get through brain fog.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: But what they couldn't get was, what is happening to my body now?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: My sex drive, the physical issues that come with it, my confidence.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I became a certified sexologist because I thought this all just blends.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've got to know the whole body and I've got to help women in this path.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest, shopping for sex toys online can feel a bit chaotic.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's hundreds of options, weird jargon, and no real sense of where to start.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically the beginner's guide that actually makes things simple.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out at gitmplaybook.com.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that we don't talk enough about is it's not just
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: about being disconnected sometimes from our libido,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: for example, and feeling like, where's it gone?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's disappeared.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: But often,
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know certainly that lots of women feel very disconnected from their bodies
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: at this stage of life, and they feel like that middle section...
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: How's that just appeared?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what am I going to do about that?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And they just experience a lack of body confidence.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Last week,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I did a naked,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: sort of semi-naked photo shoot with a photographer who's doing photographs of women
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: over 50.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm pretty comfortable taking my clothes off and prancing around.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: It did take me a while to kind of warm up and feel comfortable.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I try to start...
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Asking them, first and foremost, what's going on?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Is it simply a confidence issue and an emotional shift?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Are you dealing with physical symptoms like vaginal dryness or pain
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: with intercourse, reduced libido?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then we get into that, which all of those will lead to a disconnect in your body.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost as if, why is my body betraying me?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Difficulty with arousal and orgasm.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't quite understand.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they think that...
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: They start to get their confidence dips.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're feeling that they're desirable and unsure who they are sexually.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And they think that there's got to be a medication for this.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's got to be.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not me.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be a medication for it.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: But while there are things and tools for that,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: for the different issues, I tell people menopause is not the end of your sex life.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is the end of your sex life as you used to have it.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's the beginning of your sex life that you now,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: because you're past your childbearing years,
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: you are transitioning,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: metamorphosing,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: if you will,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: into a new female, you get to design this sexual life on your own terms, this time.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: And with it comes...
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Education for what the changes are and how do you deal with them.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And right from the start,
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: once we've talked about the physical and emotional and we've started creating
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: that toolbox, I say you've got to remove the pressure.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to give yourself grace.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: The only way to reclaim your pressure, your pleasure isn't just jumping right into sex.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to take sex off the table right from the start
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: and start noticing your own body, your body awareness.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: What do you like?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: How do you like to be touched?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like massaged?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: What sounds do you like?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: They could all have changed since our 20s.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's one of the things that I bring up all the time is we're not going to go back.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're not going to recapture that vibrant feeling of our youth when we just used
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: to look at somebody across the room and get all wet and juicy.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be different.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And designing what that difference looks like can be challenging
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: when we don't have many role models,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: actually, of older sexual women who even talk about it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even to be honest,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: when you look at like the sexy chicks that are out there,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: the Madonnas of this world and Schneer and Helen Mirren and all these kind
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: of older women who are,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know, looking great and they're doing things and they don't talk about sex.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Never.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: They never talk about sex.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: They look sexy.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: They might have a young person on their arm,
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: but they don't actually talk about the physical changes.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: You never hear them ever discussing.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know because I've asked them all to come on the show and funnily enough,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: they just don't ever say yes to
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so funny that you bring up Madonna.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I had that exact same thought today.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking at her dancing at Coachella and she had her 27 year old boyfriend on her arm.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I just want to ask her, like, are you having the same problems?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this is all like just not a facade, but denial by omission.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or have you found some secret water we
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: I feel exactly the same way.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's all these women and her especially, right?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because she's always harping on about the fact that,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know, you can be sexual as an older woman.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: You can do this.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can look this way.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can stay.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with her, but what is actually going on in your own intimate life?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you on vaginal estrogen?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Are you fucking three times a day?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Are you like taking testosterone?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are you doing?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to know because I think it's useful for other people
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: to know like this is how you get like this.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe she's not having sex.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's all just one big act and she's not doing anything.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: But all I know is that none of these women ever talk about it ever.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when women come to people like you and they speak to women like me,
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're going, I don't know what the fuck's going on here.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just not feeling hot anymore, except, you know, with hot flashes.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not feeling sexy.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: I feel invisible when I walk in a room, you know.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I've got this little tummy, blah, blah, blah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit dry down there.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: What do I do?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's because they've received no education.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's no media coverage of any of this.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the people that we think should be our role models are being very quiet,
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: very quiet.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, New York Times just came out with an article on why younger men love older women.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And great article.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it was a pretty good read.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: But as an older woman, I'm reading this and I'm going, how?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: How?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, exactly like you said, how?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: When you walk into a room,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: you're like, oh,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: first of all,
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: you're like,
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm only going into places with low lighting so that they cannot see the wrinkles
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: and the bags under my eyes.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And how and why and who is this reporter?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: But that's why it would be nice for us to know our role models.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: These women are out there,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's younger men or they just have a really great,
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: you know, they have a long term relationship or things like that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are you as human as I am so I can feel good about where I am in my life?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or are you just like, am I not doing it right?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you clearly are doing it very right.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's been a lot of media coverage recently about over 60 sex lives.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: A lot.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yesterday,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: somebody on LinkedIn was like,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: oh, yet another article about people over 60 are still having sex.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, it's a big deal, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And older women are going out with younger men.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can tell you that.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you go on dating apps like Field or Tinder or any of those,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: and as my girlfriend showed me one day when I said I wasn't getting any matches,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: she just literally pulled the bar down across the screen and made my search from 55
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: and above to like And I was like, what are you doing?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to go out with a 37-year-old.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: My son is 35.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's gross.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And suddenly it was like, bing, bing, bing, bing.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I just went and she would see, see, see.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of people who think.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, yeah, but they're like my children.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're like my children.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I know Cindy Gallop, we've had conversations.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: She's been on my show.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: She's one of the main advocates for the benefits of going out with younger men.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I do get it.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like younger men have their benefits, right?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're interested in older women probably because, well, frankly, we're easy, right?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're just easy.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're drama free.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have much estrogen.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So there's not a lot of drama going on there.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: We just have a lot of experience.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: We know how to go down on a guy and make him feel good.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, mostly and and I think that I get why they I get.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why they like us.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's perfectly obvious.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Do they like us for the long term?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: But for short term fun or I mean,
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I guess if you're Madonna, maybe they're in it for the long term.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: But by and large,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think most younger men are looking at older women as fun,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: short term relationships, whatever.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: But for older women,
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: I just think Yeah, okay,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of nice,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: but there's something to be said about age-appropriate relationships,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: and there's something to be said about being able to talk to a man and have
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: the same relative cultural references and all of that sort of stuff.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that these articles just generally are not indicative.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but they're not indicative of what I see generally.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, definitely not.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think a majority...
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, you may go through,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: if you've come out of a long-term marriage or divorce,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: and you may have your sow your wild oats phase,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: but I think at this point, most of us are just looking for someone to grow old with.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: That can be our best friend.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, a very healthy sex life is paramount.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's very important.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: But also someone that also is going through a transition or metamorphosis, too.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not alone in this.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: This wasn't like it was before, but we'll find our way.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the media often misrepresents this group of people by suggesting
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: and also making women that don't feel particularly sexual feel totally inadequate.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know,
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: On the one hand,
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: we've got celebrities who are parading around with young people on their arm often,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: but really are keeping schtum when it comes to their own sex lives.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've got articles promoting normal people that are having amazing sex post-60.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And whilst the sex I'm having at my age, I have to say, is good, I'm happy with it overall.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Is it as good as it was when I was 40?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, it is not.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not as responsive.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: It takes me a lot longer to have an orgasm.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not as responsive.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: I have to slow down.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: It takes me longer to get aroused.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's get real.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: These articles are not helping women to feel better about where they are right now.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I think anyway.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think at this age, we've moved away from spontaneous to responsive sex.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: So with responsive, there's a lot that goes into it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you just have to have the mindset that it's, again, a ritual.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's all part of the fun,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: whether that's to get aroused and get into the mood,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: especially as a female, to go take a hot shower, a warm bath.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Put some sort of scented oil or perfume on, like candles, all the things.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Get mood set.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Take 30 minutes.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Drink it up.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Soak it up.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then your partner has to also understand it could be another 20,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: 30 minutes before it's go time.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's playtime at that point.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And just...
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the experience.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: The bonus of it is we're not worried about kids walking in,
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: rushing around on schedules, on no sleep.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have more time to let this unfold.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's not going to be every night,
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: but maybe you take a night a week and just really have a lot of fun.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Have a date in your bedroom.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing that for years and I'm a big advocate of scheduling sex because
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: the preparation,
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: getting into the mood as you say,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: doing the whole thing,
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: putting on sexy lingerie,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: all of that is part of the ritual about getting into the headspace of I am going
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: to be doing this tonight and I'm going to be looking forward to that
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: because I know it's going to happen.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's nothing wrong with that.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's something really fun and playful, as you said, about making it a whole story.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Taking you from that morning.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Just because we're older and some of our parts are facing south instead
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: of straight ahead and we've got wrinkles and things, you can still play that up.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: You could still...
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you could text your partner in the morning.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even have to send a picture.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: You could simply say, I'm so excited for tonight.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then you could,
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: you could get a little spicier in the afternoon with a picture or a picture
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: of your lingerie or something like that if you're self-conscious.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And to keep that momentum building...
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Until you're at date time.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that goes a long way too.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: You just got to get creative and not feel embarrassed and not feel ashamed.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: You stay within your comfort zone and you do fun things.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: One of the recent things that I had with somebody
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: that I thought was actually was really fun is I said,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: oh, I've just bought this new piece of lingerie.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like to see me in it?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, no.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I want you to describe what it looks like first.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love this.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a writer,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: it's like black lace,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: a deep v-neck,
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: it's got no back,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: it's doing this, it's like this, it's stretchy, it's la la la la la.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to go into like detail about this piece of lingerie, right?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And tell the whole thing.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I did that.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Wrote this whole long extensive thing about this thing.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then he was like, okay.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can send me a picture.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: When you first said that, I was like, I'm getting on a flight right now.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: We're tracking this man down.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like what he just did.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you got into what he actually wanted, I was like, I love this man.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: It was so hot.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought, what people don't realize is those sorts of moments, right?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's the elongating what used to be quick, right?
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: So take anything that you do and Are you going to describe the smell of the candles?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's the atmosphere that
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now I really appreciate the person who wants to really draw this out so that by
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: the time I'm in the bedroom, I'm like, I'm so ready.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, don't rip your clothes off.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: A younger man suggested a booty call the other day, and I was like, look, I've never met you.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would never do that.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that I would never do that.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would do that, and I have done that.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I said, you have to tell me a story.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: I said, if you want this,
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: if you want me to engage with this on this level,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: like this kind of thing, you got to tell me a story.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: You got to set out a scenario for me.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what can I expect to happen?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I need you to show me what I'm entering into here.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And he just said, I suspect I'm not experienced enough for you.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to be able to do this.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought...
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's fine.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I'm not doing it either.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I just thought there's a certain type of person,
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: and I suspect sometimes it is an older person who has the liberty,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: the free time,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: the brain space,
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: the imagination, the creativity to go, actually, this is going to be really fun.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to maximize this opportunity by making this irresistible rather
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: than just saying, you know, I can't do this.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there's a bit of maturity level there and it just wasn't the right fit.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: You needed that and it wasn't going to be the experience you wanted.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a great way of vetting them though.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Often when people say,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not in the mood,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I can't figure out how to get in the mood, I'm just not feeling it.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like they've never had somebody who's wanted to spend the time
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: To really take them to that place where it's playful.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the thing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, the man who asked me to describe the lingerie to him, he's in Vietnam, sadly.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like you're going to have to go back for a trip.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, I found that so hot.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just such a simple thing.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I just went, yeah, yeah, that's going to do it for me.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe why?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because he was interested in you, not just the act.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like he was in there and he was picturing you in it.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thought that was hot.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think what we're saying really is that desire doesn't retire.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I always say.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Desire doesn't retire.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it does change.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And getting your partner in the mood, and it's not just women, it's men as well.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like getting in the mood, setting the scene.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of the joy of having sex as an older person.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's giving yourself grace, realizing you're not lost, you're evolving.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: The goal is never to go back, and it's to rediscover what works now for you.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Kelly, have a lovely, lovely day.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: You too, Sam.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to give a huge thanks to Eloisa, Ken, and Kyle, who make every episode shine.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Join our community and catch up on past conversations at sexadviceforseniors.com.