Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Is LeBron Trying to Get Fired & the Start of the Top 25 Athletes of the Last 25 Years

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Is LeBron Trying to Get Fired & the Start of the Top 25 Athletes of the Last 25 Years · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the right time, a WAVE original.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks for watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: rate us, review us, give us five stars. You only
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: give us four stars. I'm inclined to believe you are
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: a hater. This is a big show. We are launching
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: our big summer feature for you this year. The top
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: 25 athletes of the last 25 years. We will lay
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: out the particulars for you. We will give you the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: first five entries. So entries 25 through 21 on this.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: We'll also talk to my good buddy Spencer Hall on
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Wednesday to go through some context on the last 25
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: years of athletes. We're going to get into that. But first,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: the wildest thing is happening. Now, those of you who
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: don't know, me and the man Ryan, we're getting ready.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: We're going to go down to Las Vegas. We're going
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: to hang out with the crew from Wave. And apparently...
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Something is going on in Las Vegas that seems almost counterintuitive,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: but I get it to a degree. And Ryan, you
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. Right. But I feel pretty
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  Speaker 1: confident that this is appropriate phrasing. LeBron James is trying
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: to get himself fired.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Yes. He's trying to get fired at work.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, does this not seem... After he agreed to do
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the job, he is trying to get himself fired. Now,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: it's a different kind of firing, obviously, because he is
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: trying to get himself fired, but his money is guaranteed.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: You understand what I'm saying? So it's like a guaranteed
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: $ 52 million. Anybody who blames LeBron for opting in can't count.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: That's all I have for you. Well, if he didn't
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: want to play for the Lakers, why did he opt in?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Can you count? 52 comma zero zero zero comma zero
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: zero zero. Hold on. Dot zero zero. All right. We're
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: all caught up. We all understand. We all get the deal. Okay, however,
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  Speaker 1: I've been watching Rich Paul go around doing interviews where
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: he's talking about it. LeBron is just there. He got
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: some hell because ESPN asked him to come on the
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: broadcast and he said he didn't have anything to say.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: And I don't know why you giving LeBron hell for that.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: That man pays Rich Paul millions of dollars to do
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  Speaker 1: that shit. I don't know why you think he gonna
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  Speaker 1: be the one to do it. You must be crazy.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Every now and then something happens in my life where
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I could do that. But what about
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: these people I pay to do it? or that somebody
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: gets paid to do it why don't they go ahead
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  Speaker 1: and do it so anyway LeBron been around Las Vegas
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: in this incredibly interesting scenario because when they traded him
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: now Ryan I know you haven't you know been around
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: a program in the most intimate way for the longest
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: of times but I maybe you have noticed this from
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: some of the comments that we receive and that you
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: can check out from time to time though you and
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I both traffic in the don't check the comments too
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: much but It's a lot of people that think I
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: hate LeBron James just because I hear telling the truth, right?
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I've noticed. Okay.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I really don't hate the dude. I don't like him
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: as much as I used to, but I also don't
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: know him, right? Very important distinction. So like the idea
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: of hating LeBron, no, not really there. But what happens
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: then as a result is I think there's a lot
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: of stuff that Because LeBron is such a polarizing figure,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: that can be very difficult for folks to, I would say,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: truly acknowledge and recognize what's going on. So when they
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: made that trade for Luka Doncic, I said it right
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: then and there. I don't think I used these words exactly,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: but he got demoted. Since the year, like what, 2000, 2001,
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  Speaker 1: he has been the center of every single team that
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: he's been on. He hit the NBA and he was
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the center of the Cavs at 18 years old. He
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: went to Miami, which was his man squad. And he
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: was the center of that. When he comes back to Cleveland,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: like everywhere he goes, this has always been about LeBron James.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And then they went and traded for Luka Doncic and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: now he's number two. And at every point, LeBron has
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: been saying, I need more help. I need more help.
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  Speaker 1: I want Anthony Davis. Hopefully I can hand this team
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  Speaker 1: over to Anthony Davis. And I think he meant that
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  Speaker 1: completely when he would say that, right? I have little
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: to no doubt that he meant those words when he
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: said it. But then you actually have to do it, right?
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  Speaker 1: And with the Lakers and Anthony Davis, it never really happened.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: And even if Anthony Davis became the best player on
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  Speaker 1: the team, which I do think probably happened after a point,
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  Speaker 1: It never stopped being LeBron's team. It never stopped being
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: about LeBron. Then Luka got there, and it kind of
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: stopped being about LeBron. The first sign that it stopped
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: being about LeBron was when they tried to make that
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  Speaker 1: trade for Mark Williams after Anthony Davis and LeBron had
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: been wanting a center. They ain't going to get no
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: center for them, but they went and got themselves a
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: center for Luka Doncic. Yeah. They did that. And you realize, oh, OK,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: this is Lucas T. And I think for LeBron in
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: the very beginning, he went along with it and he
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: was cool with it. And then more and more you
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: start to see and you LeBron and you realize, hey, man.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: They're not thinking about you like that anymore. But now
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: you LeBron James, you were going into literally nothing. year 23,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: which is absurd, right? He's going into year 23. Ain't
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: no waiting for 2027. And the word is out that
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: what the Lakers are trying to do is to maximize
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  Speaker 1: their cap space for the year 2027. Number one, if
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: LeBron had a problem with that just on the face
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  Speaker 1: that it's poor strategy, that is where I agree with him. Look,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Big free agents, that doesn't really happen anymore. I thought
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: that we had already discussed this with the thing with
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: the aprons and the way that players now choose to
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: behave in terms of re-upping. This idea like there's not
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: going to be a summer of 2010 anymore. I don't
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: think you're going to have a point at which there's
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: a guy like call it Kevin Durant being available in 2016.
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  Speaker 1: Dudes are re-upping as soon as they can for as
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  Speaker 1: much money as they can. And then they're going from there.
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  Speaker 1: Like maybe there's something that I don't understand about the
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  Speaker 1: idea of waiting for the year 2027. But I'm just
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  Speaker 1: telling you, I don't get it. I don't see why
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  Speaker 1: that would be the strategy that you would play if
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: you were the Lakers. And so if you're LeBron, I
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: get that. He's like, yo, what is it that you're doing?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: What is it that we're doing? And so now LeBron
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: has done what has basically always worked for him. I'm
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  Speaker 1: going to put the squeeze on them. And I don't
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  Speaker 1: blame him for the approach that he's taken all these
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  Speaker 1: years of putting the squeeze on them because he didn't
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: put the squeeze on the Cavs early and they burned
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of the early portion of his career just
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: because they had LeBron. And that was when he realized, oh,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: these teams are willing to sacrifice winning just to keep
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: getting this paper because I fill up the house. I
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: drive up the equity. I do all of those things.
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  Speaker 1: You're not going to get me a winner behind that?
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  Speaker 1: What are you talking about? So then he went to Cleveland,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: back to Cleveland, because he did those four years in Miami.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: He went back to Cleveland, and at just about every
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: turn he could possibly have, he set up a situation
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  Speaker 1: where they had to do what LeBron wanted them to do,
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  Speaker 1: and now the Lakers don't give a damn what LeBron wants.
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  Speaker 1: Not only do they not give a damn about what
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: LeBron wants, what seems to be clear to me from
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  Speaker 1: this comfortable distance is they are somewhere between feeling like
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  Speaker 1: they've done plenty and being tired of him.
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  Speaker 2: I have one question. When you say they, when it
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  Speaker 2: refers to the Lakers.
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  Speaker 1: Yes. I mean, Jeannie.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: You mean Jeannie. Okay. That's thank you for getting to
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  Speaker 2: the question.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, Jeannie and Rob, right? Look, man, they went
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: and got Anthony Davis, which by the way, was what
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: they should have done anyway. But the way that they
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: look at it is LeBron wanted us to get Anthony
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Davis and we traded literally the whole team in order
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: to get him. And they won a championship. And then
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: there's that other one, Ryan. They gave his son a job.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I thought you were going to Westbrook, but they did give–
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: I forgot about that one.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: So they traded for Anthony Davis. That worked great. They
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: traded for Russell Westbrook, the exact opposite.
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  Speaker 1: Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Now his son has a job guaranteed for three more years.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, a really good job, by the way. They didn't
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: just say, well, son, how would you like to push
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: this mail cart? No, no, no. They did not. They
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: gave him a good-ass job. OK, I think the Lakers
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: feel like they've done everything that they could for LeBron,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: or at the very least, they did everything that they
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: would for LeBron. And what I think I find most
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: interesting about it is they probably think we got Luka
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  Speaker 1: Doncic is we did this for LeBron, but they didn't
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: do that for LeBron. They did that for themselves. And
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: now I feel like the greatest player of his generation,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: one of the five greatest players of all time, no
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: matter how you slice it, is now in Las Vegas
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  Speaker 1: with his agent doing a PR tour about what comes next.
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  Speaker 1: Does he think the Lakers are going to buy him
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  Speaker 1: out because they're not? Why would they do that?
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, the Lakers are not going to buy
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  Speaker 2: him out. I saw the reporting that four teams have
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: called the Lakers that are interested. Obviously, the Knicks and
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: the Cavs being kind of high on that list, getting
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: back into the Eastern Conference. I feel like we're due
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: for a long-form LeBron James interview.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Like, um, Friendly Media Outlet, um, I mean, I forget,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: he does have his own podcast, so if you really
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: wanted to put the screws down, but I feel like
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: that is next. We got the Rich Paul statement. We
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: got the pouty public appearance. Yes. And, and, and, knowing
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: the last 20 years of LeBron James, I think that
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: public appearance is next.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Is he going back to McAfee?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: It depends on if McAfee's on. But I think that's
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: definitely high on the ads.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: So this is my thought, and I'm curious what you
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: think about this. I feel like if you're the Lakers,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: you've just got to get this to the regular season. Right?
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Get this to training camp. Get this. This is not
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Jim Harden. Right. I don't think he's going to show
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: up to training camp acting up. Because remember... Jim Harden
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: was on a team with DeMarcus Cousins and P.J. Tucker.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: And I think John Wall was there by that time, too.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: And they was ready to whoop his ass like that.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: That had to end before somebody killed James Harden.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Because that's when he was out there quitting in the
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: middle of games.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Yes. And also in practice and all this stuff. But
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: the word disrespect was being thrown around by.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: People like DeMarcus Cousins. Yes.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: By people who fight. They were like, hey, we got
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: to do something about this. Okay. I don't think LeBron's
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: the type that's going to get in there and act up.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: I think he's got a little too much pride and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: too much dignity when the regular season comes to get
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: out there and do like James Harden type things, right?
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Or my personal favorite, when Andrew Bynum was finished and
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: he was playing with the Cavs and he had the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: practice where he shot the ball every time he touched it,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: including from three-quarter court.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I thought you were going to go Jimmy Butler taking
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the backups. And beating all the starters in Minnesota. I
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: think that's an all-time good one, too.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: So that was interesting because Jimmy played when it came
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: time to play. He would find reasons not to play games.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: But when it came time to play, he came time
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: to play. But.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he would go to practice, kick everyone's ass, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: then Rachel Nichols was magically there.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Way to go.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Two hours later, yeah.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: Way to go, right? I don't know where this goes,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: but I don't think the... LeBron doesn't have the leverage
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: to strong arm himself out of there. He might be
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: able to find teams who are interested. The Lakers have
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: no great reason to like move him. And honestly, if
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: I'm one of these other teams, how much am I
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: giving up to get one year, maybe two of LeBron
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: James at this point? How much am I giving up
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: to get a guy that's going to make $ 50 million?
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: And what's that going to do to our cap situation
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: and with these funny aprons and everything else? Does anybody
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: see a resolution to this problem that serves either side?
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I don't really see that. I don't know if the
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Lakers thought this out so far, but I do know this,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: and this is the part that every single player in
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the NBA needs to recognize. In the year 2003, after
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Michael Jordan, who had a piece of ownership with the Wizards,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: gave that up, so that he could go down on
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: the floor and to play for two years and to
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: sell out the house every night. And then at the end,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Abe Paulian called him into the office and shit-canned him.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Michael Jordan thought he was going to go back to
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: being an executive, and they told him to kick rocks,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: you yellow-eyed motherfucker, and sent him down the road. That
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: was the time that a lot of guys in the
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: NBA learned. In the words of the great Cujo Goody,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: You think it can't happen to you, then it do.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: It can happen to anybody. When they're done, they're done.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Because fundamentally, if you don't play this right, y'all are
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: all still employees. And LeBron James is learning this the
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: hard way. You think it can't happen to you, then
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: it do. Okay? Kobe Bryant wanted to be traded in 2007.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: They told him to sit his ass down, right? It
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: worked out for the best for all parties involved that
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: it happened. They gave him a nice little farewell tour
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: in the end, but that was the moment he realized
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: he worked for them, okay? And LeBron is getting this
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: right now for everything that he's done, for the upstanding
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: statesman that he's been for this league, for the fact
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that he's carried this league as its face for just
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: about 20 years. They did it to him too. They
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: can do it to anybody. And right now, he has
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: no recourse. He has no leverage. And I have no
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: idea how this is going to play out. None whatsoever.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: But I'm telling you this, LeBron, this is... You're on
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: a team with a fan base that's been iffy with
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: you since the day that you got there. Now, if
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: you can find your way to get back to Cleveland,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: where you're going to have some measure of love forever,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: then maybe this turns out to be some kind of
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: happy ending. That is possible. But man, I don't think
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: he wants an unhappy ending, right? I think that he
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: has seen this as he wants to go out with
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: some kind of farewell tour. And the way this is
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: stacking up right now, I don't see the path to that.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Maybe he and Rich see the path to that. But
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: it would be a shame, given everything LeBron's done for
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: the league and how good he's been, if this truly
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: ends on a sour note, especially considering how good he
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: still is. But right now, it's looking like it's going
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to end sour as hell. All right, guys, we're looking
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: forward to this one, right? You know, we like to
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: try to do things during the summer. We've done book
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: clubs in the past. We've done like limited series and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the likes. This year, 25 top athletes of the last
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: 25 years. Ryan, it's like 25 of the last 25
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: in 2025. You see what I'm saying? There we go.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: There we go. We was thinking, we was thinking.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to let people know some of the particulars.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: If I miss anything, I need you to help me
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: out here because we're working together on this. Ryan's done
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a great job to help get this going.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: So this is what we're looking at. All right. We
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: got some criteria. I'm gonna be honest with you. I
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: came up with these criteria in part to make my
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: job easier and to make sure that I can work
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: some people in here and to get some people out
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: of the conversation. So here we go. Number one, you
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: had to be 25 or younger on January 1st in
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: the year 2000. Unfortunately, that means you get no shack, okay?
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: We focused on North America, the continent of North America,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: which includes Canada, the United States, Mexico, and all them
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: little islands. You know what I'm saying? If you play
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Sporkle quizzes, we're talking about that North America, the ones
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that come up there. You know, Antigua and Barbuda, you
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: have a chance here. No soccer? Sorry, don't really know
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that much about y'all. No hockey, no race car drivers.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Sorry to lose Hamilton.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a tough bag. Tough bag. We
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: ain't going over there, little homie. Over there in Europe,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: we can't do that. Ovechkin can't do nothing for you.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Sorry, Jimmy Johnson.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Sidney Crosby. We thought about it. Yeah. You know,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: like we gave it some thought. But in the end,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the one thing you need to know about this list
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: is it is mine. That is how we got here.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: It is more art than science. There is an element
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: of folklore to it. You know, people who tell stories
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: about for a long time. And again, at the end
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: of the day, it's Bo's list.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: That's right. And I need you guys to understand something.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: These lists make people argue. OK, I am not doing
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: this to make you argue. I'm doing this so I
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: can get some content. You understand what I'm saying? I
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: got a job to do. I'm not trying to make
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: you argue. And what is very important about me saying
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: that I'm not trying to argue is this. I understand
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: that you guys will want to argue about this list
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: because you do it every time.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: It don't matter what kind of list, don't matter who
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: put it up. You argue. And I'm going to tell
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: you right now, argue with your partners, argue with your timeline,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: argue with your mama. I ain't going to do it. Anyway.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Let me put a happy face on this. I just
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: feel like I just had the most antagonistic introduction to
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: what this is because it runs counter to so much
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: of what I want to do, right? Because, Ryan, people
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: love to hit me up and be like, yo, give
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: me your top five this. I've been like, pay me, fool.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Guess what? Wade pays me.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: So here we go. Number 25 is Randy Gene Fox.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: Again, it's your list.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's the biggest reason. If you thought that
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: there was ever a way in the world that I
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: would do a list like this and Randy Moss would
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: not be on that list, you clearly do not know me.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know who else you put on your list.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I know this. Randy Moss is the best college wide
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: receiver that I have ever seen, compounded by the fact
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: that he got to play against people at levels that
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: had absolutely no. No, they should not have been out
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: there with him. Randy Moss has the most touchdown receptions
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: ever in a season. Randy Moss is the best rookie
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I have ever seen play NFL football. I believe that
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Randy Moss is the most physically perfect football player relative
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: to his position that I have ever seen. Randy Moss
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: is second all time best. in touchdowns, and Randy Moss,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: for anybody who was there when it happened, there has
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: never been a singular force on offense that I recall
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: ever seeing. There were guys like Michael Vick who were
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: super exciting to watch, but it was fair to ask
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: questions about how good they were. There were all kinds
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: of people that you would see play football, and it's
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: hard to stand out with so much playing football, because
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: it is 11 dudes. But there is something about a
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: guy that is always open. I'm not simply talking about
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: a guy that can always get open. That was Jerry Rice.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: who could always get open. I'm talking about a guy
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: that's always open. Five people on him, hanging off his shoulders,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: still open. That was Randy Moss. Just chuck it up there, dog.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: That was his line. He'd just say, just chuck it
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: up there, dog. And that's all you did. Like, you
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: know how you would play on video games and just
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: know that like on rookie or whatever the easy level was,
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: all you had to do was throw it up there
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: and then you could take it to where you controlled
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: the receiver and then you go get the ball. It
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: was like that in real life. Old ass Randall Cunningham
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: could just throw it up there. Disagreeable ass Jeff George
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: could just throw it up there. Cold until he got hurt.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Dante Culpepper could just throw it up there. And then
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: Tom Brady, who had always been effective, but never really, really,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: really looked great. Then he got Randy Mawson in the
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: first game. He ran by Darrell Rivas and two other dudes.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: And Tom Brady just chucked it up there, dog. And
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: there it was. Never seen anything like it before. And
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: somehow in the 27 years since Randy Moss got into
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the NFL game, We still haven't seen anything like it. Yeah,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: you've seen Justin Jefferson. You've seen all kinds of guys
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that were really good receivers. Nothing like that. Now, you
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: ready for number 24? Number 24, Cam Newton. Still your list.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Still my list, but I want to make a very
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: important specification on here. Because if we are only talking
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: about one part of Cam Newton's career, he probably doesn't
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: make it, right? If we're just talking about the NFL,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: in spite of him being an MVP level quarterback, we're
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: probably not here. The reason why we are here and
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: why Cam Newton makes this list is very simple. He
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: is the greatest college football player I have ever seen. Period.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: You could rack up guys who had better careers, right?
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: Because they stacked up more time, like Tim Tebow being
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: an example. Baker Mayfield will probably be another example. There
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: are other guys that won Heisman's. There are other guys
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: that threw for more yards, did more of this, did
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: more of everything else. Now, Ryan, I cannot remember. Were
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: you at LSU for that Cam Newton year?
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I sure was.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you were there.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Could you talk to people just very briefly about that
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: one play? And you know the play I'm talking about.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: So, Kim Newton, I mean, the play breaks down. He's
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: rolling to his left, and he comes across the field, right?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: And you see him run past about five NFL defenders,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: and at the end of it, drag up maybe an.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: NFL Hall of Famer. No, no maybe. Guaranteed.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Guaranteed Hall of Famer and Patrick Peterson on the ground,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: take it 70 yards into the end zone to be– Probably,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, that team was as good as any team
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Wes Miles ever had.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, in spite of Wes Miles. That's the weirdest LSU
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: season there has ever been because that was the year
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that Derrick Dooley had 15 people on the field for
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: that play against Tennessee. It was a strange year. Cam Newton,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: with no one on offense who played in the NFL
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: with him, went undefeated in the SEC. And I am
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: a person who does not believe in the idea of
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: quarterback wins except for one exception. Cam Newton at Auburn.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: There's never been anything like it. I want to say
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: they won seven games the year before, or eight, and
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: they won seven or eight games the year after, and
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: they won 14 games the year with him. He was
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: by himself worth five or six wins, all by himself.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: He looked like he was bigger than everybody else. He
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: was dragging everybody else, running a well-run high school offense,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: but a high school offense nonetheless. It was watching the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: team that just had the best athlete, and you let
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: them do everything.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: As a high school offense, the high school coach.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. All of these things, right? The 27-point comeback
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: against Alabama, right? On the road with as hostile an
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: environment as there has ever been. All of this while
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: literally the two best schools in the conference appeared to
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: gang up and try to make the man ineligible over, you.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Know, Something we wouldn't be ineligible for now.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Something that is laughable now, a couple hundred thousand dollars.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Do you realize what a bargain Cam Newton at $ 180, 000
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: was if that was ultimately the number that got him
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: there to Auburn? So then you take that, and this
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: is the other reason why I think he makes this
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: list or why I think he makes this list is mine.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: The other reason why he makes this list is You
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: used to hear about how a guy had to run
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: a pro-style offense, or you wanted a guy to run
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: a pro-style offense before he could run your offense in
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the NFL. So the guys who played in spreads or
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: everything took a bit of a demerit. Now, Sam Bradford
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: was the first spread quarterback to be the number one
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: overall pick, and that happened in 2010. But he didn't
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: hit the league like gangbusters, like Cam Newton did in 2011,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: where I believe his first game he threw for 400
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: yards in my favorite play perhaps ever. He throws an
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: interception to Daryl Washington of the Cardinals. He goes and
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: tries to tackle Daryl Washington, a Pro Bowl linebacker who
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: saw the quarterback coming and slid. It slid. It was
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: a complete redefinition of what the NFL quarterback was, a
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: redefinition of what a pro prospect was in a draft
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: overrun with future Hall of Famers. And we'll go through
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: them off the top of my head. Von Miller, J.J. Watt,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Patrick Peterson. julio jones richard sherman aj green yeah and
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: then other guys like robert quinn is a dude that's
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: in that draft marcel darius yeah mike pouncey um like
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: we got one of the pounces i can't be keeping
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: him dude straight but you know all these guys who
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: had great nfl careers guys who could have been like
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: alton smith everything else you redo that draft you take
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: cam newton number one still you still take that guy
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: number one after everything, right? A singular force of nature.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: And the closest that we've seen to him is Josh Allen.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: And you have a fair argument that Josh Allen has
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: been a better NFL quarterback, but I've still never seen
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Josh Allen have to put everything on his back quite
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the way Cam Newton has. And Josh Allen, in ways,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: has been asked to put everything on his back. He
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: was that guy. What guy? That guy. And so you
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: add being the greatest college quarterback that I've ever seen,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: maybe the best college player ever because of his singular
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: nature and how much he did all by himself to
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: add to the NFL career. He's our guy at number 24.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: We have got 23, 22, and 21 coming up next.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: All right, here we go. We have got our next
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: three entries in our top 25 athletes of the last
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: 25 years. Athlete number 23 is Albert Pujols. Now, I
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: think one thing you're going to find about this list
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: is I prioritize peak over longevity, okay? Something we'll get
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: to a little bit later. For example, I take Tiger
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Woods over Jack Nicklaus because I take peak over longevity
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I think longevity is something for which you deserve credit
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: but I take peak over longevity and Albert Pujols I
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: think this can be difficult for people to remember especially
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: if you stop paying attention to baseball but Albert Pujols's
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: first 10 years are as good as any right-handed hitters
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: were that you could ever ask for and ever expect
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: and again for those of you who don't really do
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: the baseball like that Ryan I think you can help
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: me out with this It's a difference when you talk
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: about this kind of stuff, especially when you start talking
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: about batting average with a right-handed hitter.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: For sure. And also, like, Albert Pujols is a weird
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: one because he is the athlete who went from St.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Louis to Los Angeles and became more anonymous.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes. Because he went, my good buddy Lawrence,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: who may be listening to this, I'm not sure, but
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: we talked about this for years. I've said this many times.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: We used to refer to the Angels as where free
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: agents go to die, and then I stopped doing it
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: because I realized a couple of them went there and
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: literally died. It's okay to laugh.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: It happened.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: It happened. It was a trick bag, right?
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, the difference between Los Angeles and Anaheim?
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Is I think is a key distinction, especially if we're
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: talking about, you know, the popularity of Albert Pujols.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he went, I mean, it's all understandable, but
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: also everything was different after that. But these first 10 years, okay,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to run through some batting averages for
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: those first 10 years. And again, at 21 years old,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: he had 329 with 37 homers and 130 RBI. So 329, 314, 359, 331, 330, 331, 327, 357, 327, 3-12, okay?
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: That's what we're looking at for Albert Pujols' first 10
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: years in baseball. Three-time leader in OPS. Four-time leader in
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: OPS +. All the numbers you can throw. They're four
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: times in total bases. Three-time MVP, silver slugger, damn near
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: every year, just over and over and over again. Just
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: unreal and incredible. They got the World Series win in
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the year of our Lord, 2006. The worst team ever
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: to win a World Series. But hey, man, things happen sometimes, right?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: It's easy to forget about this because he made the
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: other move. You know what's easy also to forget because
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: we stopped caring about numbers after the steroids? Albert Pujols
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: hit 700 home runs! 700 home runs!
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: And never was, I don't think Albert was ever, and
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I could be wrong about this, never even sort of
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: implicated in the steroid stuff.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Of course. I mean... He's a birth certificate all-star. There's
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: a lot of, you know, there's a lot of things
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: that I don't think we need to try to prove
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: right now or get to the bottom of necessarily, but.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: He's... There's never a question of whether or not Al
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Poole is going to be in the Hall of Fame.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: That is correct.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: I think that's an important distinction.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: He is closer to being Ken Griffey Jr. than even, say,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Mike Piazza.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Who we definitely have questions about that for whatever reason
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: we have chosen to ignore. But Albert Peralta is fourth
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: all-time in home runs, and the only people who are
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: over him are Barry Bonds, Henry Aaron, and Babe Ruth.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: That's it. you get to make the list guy, right?
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I just feel like if we don't put him here,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: we have just made the conscious decision that we're just
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: not going to pay attention. And again, it all ended
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: after that, right? After that, nothing was ever the same.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: You could get some 30 home run seasons or whatever
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: it was. It wasn't the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: get that. But like, I'm looking at that baseball reference
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: page directly in front of us. And Ryan, it looks
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: like you were doing the same thing. And it's a
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: lot of.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Black and white. You can do it because you can
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: hear my loud scrolling going on.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It's a lot of black that gets on that list
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: so he gets there he stays there he earns that
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: because again here we prioritize peak over longevity are you
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: ready for number 22 number 22 Ray Lewis this is
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: where this gets interesting right Because one thing I enjoy
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: about talking about football when it comes to who's better,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: if you want to get into your all-time discussions or
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: everything else, is that stats don't do it. Right? Like...
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: As we get more and more technocratic as a society,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: we always need some numbers to justify what we're talking about.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: And football numbers just don't lend themselves the same way.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: You can get out here and you can talk about
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: tackle numbers for Ray Lewis and things like that all
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: you want. If you so decide, that's fine. But that's
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: not really what kind of party this is. Ray Lewis
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: was a guy where it was like, yo, did you
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: see that? And maybe you did or did not see it.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: What's to say? I saw this thing get caught up
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: on the Internet where some guy was making an argument
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that Ray Lewis would not be able to play football
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: today because of the demands of coverage.
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: Just something like Fred Warner would be a better linebacker
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: than Ray Lewis. I think it was something like the
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: gist of the argument.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: And look, I didn't think that that was as implausible
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: an argument as people were making it out to be. Right.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: But it doesn't matter, I think, is the point. whether
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: or not Ray Lewis can play football right now doesn't
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: have to do with how good Ray Lewis is. It
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: has to do with an evolution of the game. Now,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: what Ray Lewis is in part, not entirely is, he
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: is one of, if not the last traditional middle linebacker.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: And something that happens in football that I don't think
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: that people do the math on is that different positions
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: emerge at different points. The middle linebacker, as we think
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: of the middle linebacker, really did not exist until the 1960s.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is like what the blind side is about, right?
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: The left tackle and the edge rusher.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Correct. The idea of an edge rusher emerges with Lawrence Taylor,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't really, really, really, like we didn't use
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: the term edge rusher until the last like 15 years
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: or so, right? We still thought of Lawrence Taylor as
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a linebacker. But the idea of a downhill thumper, fill
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: up the middle of the field, middle linebacker, it didn't
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: always exist. So if your idea is that, well, Ray
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Lewis could not play linebacker as he plays right now,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: that's fine. I don't think Fred Warner could have played
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: the kind of middle linebacker that Ray Lewis played, right?
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: So looking at what he was, Ray Lewis was... the
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: best defensive player in the league, and the best defensive
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: player on the best defense that I believe that I
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: have ever seen, which was the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, who
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: won a Super Bowl with their two quarterbacks being Tony
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Banks and Trent Dilfer. That team went a month without
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: scoring a touchdown and won two or three of those games.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: On the face of having Ray Lewis there shutting down
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the middle, there's nothing you could do in the middle
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: of the field with that guy out there.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: And one thing you talk about often, you know, you
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: talk about the lack of need for stats in football. And,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: you know, football can be more of an emotional game.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: You know what Ray Lewis brings that's a very important
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: part of football? Fear.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, look, if you're a person that doesn't believe
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: that leadership and stuff like that matters that much, which
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I don't think is like, I get it if that's
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: where you're coming from. Like leadership doesn't really do it
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: for you, okay. But it seemed pretty clear that that
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: guy had it. And it seemed pretty clear that that
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: guy had it because everybody around him talks about the
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: way that that guy had it. And you hear those speeches,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: you'd be ready to go out there and fight all,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: do all the things all by yourself. But I think
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: particularly with what we're doing, the best defensive player of
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: his era. And I think that most of us would
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: agree that for that era, Ray Lewis was the best
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: defensive player that was there. He, he ironically became a
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: face of the NFL, you know, after the whole, you know, incident. Yeah.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: You know, the dudes he was out with seemed to
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: have killed somebody that night.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Seemed.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Seemed. Because they got acquitted. Can't lose sight of the
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: fact they got acquitted. But I don't think people knew
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: who Ray Lewis was. But you had to be a
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: real if-you-know-you-know type of person.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Because that was in the gap between. of the miami
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: teams correct.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: It was in the gap of the miami teams this
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: it was a slight gap there right because he was
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: drafted in 96 so yes like the 94 miami team
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: went to the orange bowl and lost to nebraska but
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: the 95 miami team was not good right right and
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: so he's there in that gap but then he goes
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: to baltimore and he gets there that's the year after
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: they left cleveland And so you've got these three, four
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: years where he's there and he's excellent, but they're not
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: anybody to talk about. Do you remember when Jim Harbaugh
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: played for the Baltimore Ravens? I bet you don't.
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: That is right before.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. There's my point right there. Jim
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Harbaugh and Ray Lewis. Can you imagine, by the way,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: those two psychos on the same team? And they're the
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: same kinds of psychos. Like those two psychos on the
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: same team. The incident happened, and then the 2000 Ravens came,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: and they were that team. And then from there, I
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: think Ray Lewis... in an era where offense began to
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: trump everything, Ray Lewis was really the only guy that
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I thought of as the face of an NFL team
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: as a defensive player. Now, he was not out there
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: by himself. That 2000 team had some really good players.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Michael McCrary, Sam Adams, Peter Boulware, Rod Woodson was on
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: that team.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, you spent all those years overlapping with
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Ed Reed as well.
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Well, then there's that. But remember, though, Ed Reed wasn't
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: on that 2000 team. Ray Lewis is four or five
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: years older than Ed Reed. So yeah, like there were
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: other guys, Terrell Suggs winds up getting there, Haloti Nada.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So it's not like Ray Lewis was there by himself,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: but you knew who that guy was. You knew who
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: it was that was in charge. And for those of
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: us who are from a different time and era, The
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: idea of I am a punisher. The NFL does not
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: have any guys left who you think are strictly existing
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: as punishers. He is one of the last of the
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: true punishers. And if you don't believe that Ray Lewis
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: was a punisher, Google YouTube Ray Lewis, Eddie George. And
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: Eddie George is big as a house. And those licks
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: that Ray Lewis had put on him just seemed impossible.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: He's that guy. And that is why he makes number
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: 22 on our list. And now, number 21. Timothy Theodore Duncan. Now, guys,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest with you. Right now, Tim
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Duncan is number 21 on this list. When I sent
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Ryan my first version of this list, Tim Duncan was
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: not on it at all.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: When I sent Bo my first version of this list,
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Tim Duncan was not on it at all.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: And then we both realized that was crazy. Correct. That
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: was absurd. It is entirely possible that when we come
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: back to do more numbers on this list, that Tim
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Duncan will have risen again as we stop and ask ourselves,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: what are we doing here? How did we, why do
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: we do this to Tim Duncan?
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: The arguments for Tim Duncan making this list. Number one,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: if you want to add college into this, Tim Duncan
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: was one of those rare, he's the number one pick
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: in the draft, no matter who gets the number one
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: pick in the draft, because he's better than everybody, right?
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: One of those guys, number one. Number two, Tim Duncan
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: was first-team All-NBA as a rookie, and you can make
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: the argument, it all depends on who you talk to,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: whether or not he was the best player on the
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Spurs as soon as he got there because it was
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: David Robinson coming off the back injury, but do not
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: let anybody tell you David Robinson was not a stone-cold beast, right?
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: The idea, though, that Tim Duncan comes in as even
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: in the same conversation with David Robinson coming into the
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: league tells you a lot about what you need to know.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: Two-time MVP. At a point, the best player in the NBA.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Five-time NBA champion. I believe it's five. Three-time finals MVP.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Quite possibly the best, most impactful team defender in the
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: history of the NBA. You go look at the defensive
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: rating for the Spurs while Tim Duncan was there. And
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: all the way until the end, he was an impactful
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: force on defense.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: He was an all-star at age 38. He was the
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: best player in the league when he came in. He
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: was 20 or 21, and he was an all-star. He
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: got 10th in MVP voting at 38 years old.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: At 38 years old, right? And we talk a lot
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: about the old, the bank shot, and the fundamentals and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: everything else, but the truth is, man, Tim Duncan was skilled.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Incredibly skilled, really good, and talk cash shit, but in
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: his own way. If you go see those clips, of
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: whether it be Kevin Garnett, DeMarcus Cousins has one that's
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: just come out where Kevin Garnett talks about Tim Duncan talking.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: He's like, the thing about Tim Duncan is he didn't
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: talk in sentences. He says, Timmy talked in phrases. He'd
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: be like, slow, too late, almost, right? Like those are
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: the sorts of things that he was saying to people.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: It was nothing anybody could do with it. He was
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the proto Kevin Durant. I'm so cold, I don't need haircuts.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Like he was, he was
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: the first dude to get out there on that kick.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: And look, this is the truth. David Robinson, I felt
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: with the Spurs and he was not alone in this
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: with the nineties. A lot of guys were like this.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Akeem Olajuwon dealt with this. It was a handful of
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: the guys that were in this space. They didn't give
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: him anything really to work with. He was out there
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: by himself, right? However, The thought that Tim Duncan could
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: come in and if nothing else, be as good as
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: David Robinson is incredible as a thought. And then from there,
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Tony Parker was a very good player. Manu Ginobili was
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: a very good player. They are both Hall of Fame
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: guys and a clear tier below Tim Duncan. in terms
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: of what he was and what he brought and what
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: he contributed to that team.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: I mean, we started off this list talking about how
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: we didn't want to include Shaq. Like that was part
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: of our arbitrary cutoff because what do you do with Shaq?
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: Tim Duncan successfully out-dueled Shaq multiple times.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, but it's interesting because he successfully did and then
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: had a three-year stretch where the Lakers were blowing them out.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: It is a very interesting career to look at because
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: one thing I will say about Tim Duncan, and maybe
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: this is an indicator for that, is he's a guy
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: that we only evaluate according to his positives. We do
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: not evaluate according to his negatives. We do not hold
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: it against him. That layup he missed late against Miami
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: in the 2013 finals, for example. And I was there
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: and I remember sitting in that press conference and looking
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: at him, looking like he was went shopping at Old
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Navy because he had a 1990s grunge costume party to
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: go to and just look beat up and dejected all
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: over his face. But we don't really we don't ask
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: him questions. to answer um for those things but he
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: also when he won that title with david robinson i
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: want to say the third best player was maybe stephen
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: jackson or avid johnson.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I think avid johnson was the first with the second
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: the oh three titles where stephen jackson was the best third.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: Second or third best player yeah but it's still i
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: mean it's it's there there are arguments to be made
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: on both sides and it's so easy to forget again
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: duncan in this way because the lack of flash right
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: and a lot of people see that as a positive
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: i just see that as a statement of fact But
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: he absolutely did enough to earn his place and to
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: make his way onto this list. So we have Tim
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Duncan at number 21. Ryan, should I tell the people,
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: some of the people who don't make it, or should
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: we just make them wait and see who they are
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: and then let, we have a plan for a guest.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I think if you have one who didn't make it,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: I think you could give them a little bit of
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: an appetizer and the rest they got to stick around for.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. Unfortunately, Mr. Allen Iverson.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: This is a tough cut.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: So close. Tough cut. Real tough cut. Real tough cut.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: We didn't want to do that. Real tough cut. Did
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: not make it. I think we'll give every episode, we'll
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: give people one. Also receiving votes. Others receiving votes. Is
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: that how we're going to do it?
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I think that's a good way of doing it, yeah.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Others receiving votes. That's where we're going to be. So guys,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: please stick with us. We're going to be doing this
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: through the end of the summer, right? So what we're
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: going to do is we have the episodes where we'll
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: give you five, and then we're also going to give
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you episodes that give context. So the next one, my
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: buddy Spencer Hall is going to come on, and it's
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: athletes who feel like the future and we're just going
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: to talk about guys that felt like they were dropped
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: off the spaceships and go through there and so it's
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: going to be a lot of fun ryan did a
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: lot of work to help put this together so i
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: thank him for that and so stick with us on
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: this because hey man unless y'all want us just sitting
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: around waiting for people to get arrested You know, this is...
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: We're all waiting for football like you are. That's right.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: That's right. So guys, check this out. I appreciate you greatly.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: here on The Right Time. We're going to do this
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: three times a week, sometimes a little bit more. My
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: man Ryan Brumley is behind the scenes handling everything. Thank you, sir. Remember,
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: follow The Right Time. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: give us five stars. If you only give us four stars,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. We'll talk
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: to you guys in a couple of days. Take it easy.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Bye.