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The story of the Red Kettle and beyond · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:12
  I'm Stephanie Coxson.
• 0:14
  I'm Kathy Anderson Martin.
• 0:15
  And we are two women influencing real life.
• 0:18
  So let's twirl.
• 0:21
  So Stephanie, we are very close to Christmas.
• 0:24
  And I know you and I had talked about having some kind of holiday or Christmas show.
• 0:29
  Yes.
• 0:30
  So we could do something positive and festive.
• 0:33
  And favorite holiday of the year.
• 0:36
  Correct.
• 0:37
  So we thought, why not invite someone to talk about the national Christmas charity, if you will, the story of the Salvation Army.
• 0:47
  Everyone knows the red kettles and the bell ringers.
• 0:50
  Yes.
• 0:50
  You can't cannot miss them.
• 0:52
  They're an iconic part of Christmas.
• 0:54
  But a lot, very few people know the story of the Salvation Army.
• 0:57
  And it's one of my favorite organizations.
• 1:00
  And I had a close association with the Salvation Army for many years.
• 1:04
  And this is one of my favorite people in the world to come on and share with us the story of the Salvation Army.
• 1:09
  So I'm Kathy Anderson Martin, and I'm Stephanie Coxson.
• 1:13
  And we are two women inspiring real life.
• 1:16
  So let's twirl.
• 1:18
  So today we are very pleased to invite Major John Griner of the Salvation Army.
• 1:24
  And Major Griner, can you just share a little bit about yourself before we get into the Salvation Army story?
• 1:32
  Sure.
• 1:33
  I have been a Salvation Army officer for about 42 years, retiring at the end of 2023, but still very much active with the Salvation Army.
• 1:44
  That's right.
• 1:45
  You don't you don't really retire from the Salvation Army.
• 1:48
  You just change roles, right?
• 1:50
  Absolutely, yes.
• 1:51
  Yes.
• 1:52
  So the Salvation Army has an amazing story.
• 1:56
  Can you just share with us how it all started and who started it?
• 2:02
  Okay, the Salvation Army actually began in London, England, under the leadership of uh Reverend uh William Booth.
• 2:11
  Um Reverend Booth was a Methodist minister who uh really felt called to minister to the um worst of the worst in the east end of London because no one else was doing it at that time, but the Methodist Church wanted him to do something else.
• 2:28
  So he and his wife decided that they would um resign their pastorate with the United Methodist Church and began at what was called then the uh Christian mission.
• 2:40
  Christian mission then evolved into the Salvation Army.
• 2:44
  And the one of the biggest reasons for that was that many of the people that William and Catherine Booth were ministering to had no church home.
• 2:54
  Uh the established churches of the day were either unable or were not willing to accept uh these folks into their congregations.
• 3:02
  So William and Catherine had all these people to take care of, and um people started calling him the general, and from there it evolved into the Salvation Army.
• 3:14
  So at that time, and my understanding is that um you said the church was unwilling or unable to go out into the east end of London, the east end of London was a bad area, and they didn't want the dirty, smelly poor people with bad reputations messing up the church, right?
• 3:30
  That's that's exactly what it was.
• 3:32
  Absolutely.
• 3:33
  Yes, the east end of London and London at that time in the 1800s was notorious for prostitution, um, alcoholism, gambling, all of the vices of life.
• 3:45
  I I heard one time even the police wouldn't go into the area because it was so bad.
• 3:51
  That's absolutely true.
• 3:52
  Absolutely true.
• 3:53
  But again, William Booth had a strong calling on his heart from from God that someone had to take care of these people, someone had to go and and see what their needs were and try and meet those needs.
• 4:04
  And um, he just he did it, he just absolutely did it.
• 4:09
  And um, what what did he go in and do?
• 4:12
  I mean, what made him different versus just um preaching to the people or you know, how how did how did that all work?
• 4:18
  Because it had to have been um tough for him to go into people that weren't used to someone from the outside coming into their little world.
• 4:25
  Uh right.
• 4:26
  William Booth is famous uh for having said you can't really talk to a man about his spiritual needs if his children are hungry, homeless, have no shoes on their feet, and he has no job in which to support them.
• 4:41
  So William and Catherine Booth's intent was to go in and meet the immediate need of the individual, whatever that might be, which opened up a door for them to begin to um speak to and minister to their their deepest need, which is their spiritual conversion.
• 4:58
  I feel like Maslow's hierarchy of needs was really stolen from William Booth.
• 5:04
  I've actually never heard the story, yeah.
• 5:06
  But but honestly, it feels a little bit like learning um you know you know, going back to college and learning that.
• 5:14
  That's it's kind of interesting, just meeting those needs.
• 5:16
  And uh that's that's pretty amazing.
• 5:19
  Uh absolutely, and that really has been the history of the Salvation Army for more than 150 years, you know, meet meet the immediate need of the individual.
• 5:28
  You know, it doesn't matter where they come from, doesn't matter whether they have a religious belief or no religious belief, and it doesn't matter their ethnicity or the color of their skin.
• 5:38
  They are human beings created in the image of God and and therefore in God's eyes, they are valuable.
• 5:44
  And to William and Catherine Booth, they were also very valuable.
• 5:47
  And I don't think that was a common, I mean, people were very elitist, you know, back then.
• 5:53
  That's that was very uncommon to think like that.
• 5:56
  Uh really, and and many people, you know, questioned uh William and Catherine Booth's um actually their their sanity.
• 6:04
  Why would they leave you know the comfort of a pastorate where they were very popular and well received, and to go to some place like the East End of London where nobody would would want to be caught dead during the day, let alone at night.
• 6:20
  Um, but again, William and Catherine Booth had a very deep spiritual connection with God, and they sought God's direction for their lives.
• 6:30
  They wanted to make an impact on the world, and they wanted to do it according to God's plan and purpose.
• 6:36
  So they took that step of faith.
• 6:38
  And when they took that step of faith, it really people started to notice.
• 6:43
  And what was really important was that the change in other people's lives, and you know, people of affluence um were drawn in.
• 6:53
  They wanted to um support um you know the mission of the the Salvation Army and uh certainly of William and Catherine Booth, and uh they were just amazed at the transformation that took place in the lives of people when someone took the time, you know, to meet with them on an individual basis, find out what their needs were, what their what their what their story was and build a relationship with them.
• 7:18
  Very relational people.
• 7:21
  And Major, one other thing that was kind of unique at that time, this was 1865.
• 7:26
  Catherine, a woman was in ministry just like her husband, and that didn't happen, right?
• 7:32
  Uh absolutely not.
• 7:33
  Another one of William Booth's famous sayings is that uh some of his best men are women, and uh his wife played a very in integral part of the success and growth of the Salvation Army.
• 7:47
  Catherine uh was very much welcomed into the upper society, uh, you could probably say it that way, uh, where William William, you know, did not necessarily have the finesse nor the patience with people of of that of that sort.
• 8:02
  Uh Catherine, Catherine Booth definitely was, and she was well received.
• 8:06
  And uh she was really the the silent moneymaker, if you will, that really kept the mission going while William Booth was doing you know the roll-up sleeve work every single day.
• 8:18
  And I've heard this story um that they would go into I guess what they call it, the beer halls and talk and preach and visit with the people, and people would throw stuff at them and all that they took where and then they did something amazing at the end, right?
• 8:34
  They went in and cleaned up the mess.
• 8:38
  Yes.
• 8:38
  Um, the the early meetings of the Salvation Army before you know they started to acquire, you know, property and that kind of thing, was to rent the beer halls.
• 8:49
  And you're absolutely right.
• 8:51
  They would go in while they were still open, they would talk with the people, you know, they would get them interested in very creative ways about what was going to happen after you know the beer halls uh closed, and then once they closed, uh, William and Catherine Booth would pick up brooms and they would clean it and they would set it up like a church setting, and uh many, many people's lives were changed as a result of that.
• 9:15
  People were amazed that something that someone like William and Catherine Booth would come to where they are.
• 9:20
  And if we look at scripture, you know, we always see that Jesus went to where the needs were.
• 9:26
  Jesus went to where the people were, and that's what Catherine and William Booth lived out every single day.
• 9:32
  They went to where the people were.
• 9:34
  So how did it become?
• 9:36
  I have a couple questions.
• 9:37
  How did it become the Salvation Army?
• 9:39
  I mean, the Salvation Army officers, you said, like we call you major.
• 9:43
  I remember the first time I met you, I thought that's so weird.
• 9:45
  But that's what it is.
• 9:46
  You know, how how did you get this military thing and the uniforms and all that kind of stuff?
• 9:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:53
  Well, if you you know anything about you know England and Great Britain, it is very much steeped in military tradition.
• 10:00
  Tradition.
• 10:01
  And as I mentioned, you know, earlier, William and Catherine Booth had all of these people, you know, to take care of, and no churches who would accept or wanted to be involved, you know, with uh with William and Catherine Booth's uh mission.
• 10:15
  Uh and people just started calling him the general.
• 10:19
  And from there, it just evolved into from the Christian mission into the Salvation Army when the Salvation Army was incorporated in 1865.
• 10:30
  And um, how so it was in London?
• 10:32
  How did it expand?
• 10:34
  Um now, I mean, the Salvation Army is the most one of the most brand recognized charities in the world, 150 years later, still going strong.
• 10:41
  How many countries?
• 10:42
  How did it how many countries is it in?
• 10:44
  I didn't even realize it's outside the US, to be honest with you.
• 10:47
  And I'm sure there's a lot of people like me.
• 10:49
  Yeah, yeah, I have no idea.
• 10:50
  Yeah, I believe uh today it's 140 countries.
• 10:54
  Wow.
• 10:54
  Where the Salvation Army is present.
• 10:56
  Yes, absolutely.
• 10:57
  The international headquarters is still in London.
• 11:00
  It is still in London.
• 11:02
  Uh, yes, in the United States, you know, just uh uh uh I guess a quick tutorial.
• 11:07
  The United States is divided into four territories.
• 11:10
  The east, um, the west, the the south, and um the central.
• 11:16
  Um, each of the territories um has a uh territorial commander uh within that territory there are individual core and divisions, and for the United States, um we all answer to our national headquarters, which is in Alexandria, Virginia.
• 11:35
  Each of the four territories has its own accredited seminary.
• 11:39
  We are an accredited uh college in each of the the four territories.
• 11:43
  Um every Salvation Army officers goes through two years of intensive uh training and education um with two internships, and at the end of that, um they are granted a bachelor's degree uh in biblical studies, and from there they are encouraged to complete five years of uh continuing education in partnership with um a college in um Kentucky by the name of Asbury Theological Seminary.
• 12:12
  Um actually my daughter graduated from there uh with a bachelor's degree in um um ministry and biblical studies.
• 12:22
  This is incredible.
• 12:23
  I had no idea.
• 12:24
  Well, it's definitely my job just I had uh like you guys are a college, like what?
• 12:31
  Major when they came to the United States, that was like 1885, like 20 years later, after it was formed.
• 12:37
  They were not well received in the United States in a lot of ways either, right?
• 12:41
  When the Salvation Army people came.
• 12:44
  Uh absolutely not.
• 12:45
  I mean, their their means of of reaching people and their creativity and and drawing attention, you know, to themselves and to the needs of people were so in other people's estimation so outlandish that um you know, if you if you look up in in in newspaper reports in places where the Salvation Army uh was first established, um some really horrendous things were written about the Salvation Army.
• 13:14
  Uh officers, soldiers uh were attacked.
• 13:17
  Um many, many people um, you know, received injuries, and um, but at the end of the day, as as time went on and the Salvation Army again and again proved itself and its purpose and its need in those communities.
• 13:32
  Um people's minds were changed, their attitudes were changed.
• 13:36
  Uh, those who were with who before would throw rocks were willing to reach in their pockets and pull out what they had in order to support the Salvation Army.
• 13:45
  Can I just ask why everyone was so upset?
• 13:48
  Like, why are we throwing rocks?
• 13:50
  Just curious.
• 13:51
  Because the Salvation Army was different.
• 13:53
  It was out of the norm.
• 13:55
  But what um I'm just trying to picture the time and like why I mean, we're like I can understand London.
• 14:04
  I can understand the East London, I get that.
• 14:07
  But upon arriving to the US, like where we were built on religious freedom and different things.
• 14:13
  I just in my head I would have thought it was different.
• 14:17
  Well, you know, one of the the old traditions of the Salvation Army that doesn't really happen uh too much in the United States anymore, was um open air meetings.
• 14:27
  The Salvation Army would take their soldiers or their members and their band, and they would go out on the street corners and you know, they would play, they would play religious songs to bar tunes, which got people's attention.
• 14:41
  And once they got people's attention, they formed what they would call a circle, and uh they would preach the gospel to people, you know, on the street corners.
• 14:50
  And people just were not were not used to that.
• 14:53
  It was new, it was different.
• 14:55
  Um it was something that you know many people made fun of.
• 14:59
  Um, but again, many, many lives were changed as a result of their willingness to you know step outside of their bubble, if you will, um, step outside of their comfort zone and to do what was necessary to get people's attention.
• 15:15
  You know, I think it's so funny because this is 1885, and we hear this today in church.
• 15:19
  I mean, if church that plays music that's different or people get all up in arms, that's kind of what they did.
• 15:24
  They had they now, I mean, they were on the cutting edge, and it kind of upset that mainstream denomination, quote unquote, uh the mainstream religious people.
• 15:35
  Um they didn't like it.
• 15:38
  Yeah.
• 15:38
  In fact, if you look at the Salvation Army song book, you'll find that you know, one song may have three or four tunes to it, and each one of those tunes uh used to be um songs that were sung in the local bars and taverns.
• 15:53
  But with Christian words.
• 15:54
  With Christian words, yes.
• 15:56
  Any Irish drinking songs by chance, I absolutely, absolutely, yes.
• 16:02
  I love Irish drinking songs.
• 16:04
  I do.
• 16:05
  It's like a secret thing of mine.
• 16:08
  So um did you learn anything yet, Stephanie?
• 16:12
  I had listen, my my jaw, I'm like picking it up off the floor.
• 16:15
  I had honestly, I had no idea.
• 16:16
  I didn't know it was a college, I didn't know it was a military setup.
• 16:19
  I thought Major was because he was from the military, and so like I just had no idea.
• 16:24
  Like on it, and I I'm gonna assume that most people uh have no idea.
• 16:28
  Well, they don't.
• 16:30
  No, and the Salvation Army also is a church.
• 16:33
  That's another thing people don't understand.
• 16:36
  Yes, when people people ask, well, you know, what denomination we are.
• 16:40
  Well, we are a denomination.
• 16:41
  The Salvation Army is uh as a denomination.
• 16:44
  Um we are closely akin to the Methodist Church because that's where William and Catherine Booth came from.
• 16:50
  So a lot of our traditions are aligned with the Methodist Church.
• 16:54
  We are still very um conservative.
• 16:57
  Um we believe that you know the scripture is is inerrant and that uh it cannot be compromised in any way, shape, or form.
• 17:06
  And um we live accordingly.
• 17:09
  And every Salvation Army officer, men and women since the beginning or ordained um pastors, or right?
• 17:17
  Yes, yes, it's what's all since the beginning, though, females were ordained pastors?
• 17:24
  Absolutely, yes.
• 17:25
  Yes.
• 17:26
  Wow, okay.
• 17:26
  Yes, and and in fact, uh uh we've we've had uh three uh female um international leaders, um, the first of which was William Booth's daughter.
• 17:38
  Back in 1818 something.
• 17:40
  Was that was that that was scandalous too.
• 17:44
  I was gonna say, like, were you guys the first to do that?
• 17:49
  Yes, very much so.
• 17:51
  Wow.
• 17:52
  Now not only did we have opposition, you know, from the general public, but you know, the established churches of that day were very much opposed to the Salvation Army.
• 18:02
  Um, mostly because, you know, women um were equal with men.
• 18:07
  They had the same rights, they had the same privileges, they had the same responsibilities.
• 18:12
  Yes, so they were out on the front lines in every way, shape, or form.
• 18:16
  Um and the other part of it is the Salvation Army was different in the social aspect of going out.
• 18:24
  That's today.
• 18:25
  I mean, people probably know more of the Salvation Army with the social services, feeding programs, you know, youth programs.
• 18:31
  They back then that was on that was not happening.
• 18:34
  They were doing that.
• 18:35
  They were doing soup kitchens and all kinds of stuff and having a church.
• 18:40
  Absolutely.
• 18:41
  Yeah.
• 18:41
  Yeah.
• 18:42
  One one uh one nice uh nice fact you might want to know is the Salvation Army was begun in the sile in the in the United States by a woman, Eliza Shirley.
• 18:51
  Eliza Shirley and her family came over from London to start the Salvation Army.
• 18:55
  In Philadelphia, right?
• 18:56
  In Philadelphia, yes.
• 18:58
  I mean that's the birthplace.
• 19:00
  Not to brag and or anything, but like women are spectacular, just they are absolutely friends.
• 19:05
  Yes, some of my best friends are women, absolutely.
• 19:10
  But they weren't doing that in other um religious organizations in 1885.
• 19:15
  No, absolutely not.
• 19:17
  Absolutely.
• 19:19
  And um, you mentioned that well, well, I'm gonna save the red kettles until we come back from great break.
• 19:26
  But um, after they came into Philadelphia, it wasn't long before they um exploded in popularity.
• 19:32
  I mean, because what they were doing was so revolutionary.
• 19:35
  As you said earlier, people got involved from the higher, I mean, affluent people wanted to support them, some, not all.
• 19:41
  And um, the people that were coming to them and having their lives turned around and giving their lives to Christ also swelled.
• 19:48
  I mean, they were making a difference on both both sides of the spectrum, right?
• 19:53
  Um absolutely.
• 19:54
  It goes, it goes back to you know, William Booth's, you know, uh initial um purpose.
• 20:00
  And that was you, you can't talk to someone about their their spiritual need until you have met their physical need.
• 20:05
  And you have a relationship with them.
• 20:07
  It's all relational.
• 20:09
  Absolutely.
• 20:10
  Again, revolutionary stuff of uh at that time.
• 20:14
  And starting in Philadelphia, I read, I mean, it was started just exploding all throughout the United States and all different states.
• 20:20
  So it was one quickly all over the United States.
• 20:24
  Absolutely.
• 20:25
  It spread to spread very, very quickly.
• 20:27
  How many Salvation Army offices are there in the country now?
• 20:31
  Just in the United States, roughly.
• 20:34
  Well, I can tell you there are about 500 in our territory.
• 20:37
  So if you put 500 times four territories, that's a conservative number, but I'm sure there are many more.
• 20:44
  So there's a couple thousand.
• 20:45
  Yeah, the East is smallest in land mass, but it's probably the largest in terms of Salvation Army locations.
• 20:57
  I mean, it's still fascinating, Stephanie.
• 20:59
  There are other parts uh and different parts of the Salvation Army and ministries because you have major gardening, you have each center is a church, but then there's also the adult rehab centers, correct?
• 21:10
  Because the Salvation Army, I believe, I believe I read the Salvation Army was the first to um initiate a homeless shelter in the United States.
• 21:18
  Uh specifically for for those who were struggling with homelessness and alcohol uh addiction.
• 21:23
  Yes, William Booth in his first tour of the United States, he brought his son Bramwell, and they were walking around town, and uh William Booth noticed all of these men who were living under a bridge nearby.
• 21:38
  And William Booth said to his son, you need to do something about this and do something about it now.
• 21:43
  And that's when the adult rehabilitation center started.
• 21:47
  So first one to open something like that in the United States as well in late 1800s, um, turn of the century.
• 21:55
  Yeah, when a lot another another uh fact that a lot of people don't know is that you know the Salvation Army thrift stores are all self-supporting, and people who are working in those thrift stores are beneficiaries of the Salvation Army's Adult Rehabilitation Center program.
• 22:11
  They don't receive receive any public money, they don't receive any government money, they don't receive anything.
• 22:17
  That's all supported through the thrift stores.
• 22:20
  And that's because they're faith-based and don't want to compromise that part of their um uh education programs.
• 22:26
  Absolutely.
• 22:28
  Wow, we have to take a break, I think, Stephanie, but we need to get back because it is Christmas, so we need to talk about those red kettles.
• 22:35
  We do need to talk, because I'm now I'm like even more curious.
• 22:38
  Uh it just I I literally this is astounding to me.
• 22:41
  I had no idea.
• 22:41
  I didn't know there were so many parts that literally the only thing I knew were the the bells and the kettles, and that you're just fundraising or you know, and helping people um primarily.
• 22:53
  I thought the homeless are people in you know in poverty.
• 22:56
  I just I didn't know how I didn't know it was spiritual.
• 22:59
  I had no idea about any of this.
• 23:00
  And I don't know how many people out there that are like me who also had no idea.
• 23:05
  So I'm just I'm astounded.
• 23:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:08
  But be very interested to know that, you know, um you'd be surprised that the people who come through the adult rehabilitation center.
• 23:16
  I I have yet, I mean, every place that I have been, I've had people come up to be and say, you know, because of the Salvation Army's rehab adult rehabilitation center, my brother, my sister, my mother, my father um benefited from that.
• 23:29
  And as a result, they also benefited from that.
• 23:32
  But it's people from all walks of life, doctors, lawyers, you name it.
• 23:36
  Well, let's let's go to break, come back and talk more about this because I do think this is something that's new to a lot of people.
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• 28:01
  So Stephanie, you've learned a lot.
• 28:10
  So Major Griner, Stephanie said all she knew with the red kettles and bells.
• 28:16
  Do you want to share how that came to be?
• 28:19
  Yes.
• 28:20
  It actually began in San Francisco, California, in the early days of the Salvation Army when it came to the United States.
• 28:28
  And one ingenious officer thought that setting up a kettle on a tripod down by the docks was a good place to not only raise money, but also to collect foodstuffs for those who were in need of food at Christmas time.
• 28:49
  So it went, it evolved from a kettle on the wharf in San Francisco to now you will see the kettle in some form everywhere around the world and over 140 countries.
• 29:03
  How many volunteers does that take exactly?
• 29:07
  Depending upon your location, it really is tens of thousands of volunteers around the world who volunteer their time, you know, to stand at a kettle for an hour or two on any given day and help raise money for the Salvation Army at Christmas time.
• 29:26
  Everything that's raised at Christmas time goes directly to services that the Salvation Army provides.
• 29:34
  Mostly for um Christmas dinner, toys and clothing, you know, for kids and adults as well.
• 29:41
  Um seniors are not left out.
• 29:43
  We also include them and our Christmas uh programs um as well.
• 29:47
  Um but I think it's important for people to know that their donation stays in their community, it's given in their community, it's spent in their community on behalf of people in their community who are in need.
• 29:59
  At this point.
• 30:00
  Point, I am just going to disclose.
• 30:01
  I know I've talked on this show occasionally about working at the Salvation Army, which I have I can't tell you of another or and I worked with Major John Grinder.
• 30:09
  So I'm just saying that.
• 30:10
  I'm trying to be um serious and respectful, but I worked with this man for 11 years.
• 30:16
  He's one of the best people I know that walks this planet.
• 30:20
  But Major, those red kettles, while you just said that, when I started, there's nothing like I ever saw, because imagine someone once said to me who was the CEO of a public radio and TV um station said there's nothing more um hard in raising money than to go on the air and ask people for money for something you're already giving to them for free.
• 30:40
  I said, I know something harder.
• 30:41
  Put red buckets on street corners and have people ring bells, right?
• 30:46
  There's everything that could go wrong could go wrong, right, Major.
• 30:49
  Absolutely.
• 30:49
  You name it, it has happened.
• 30:51
  Absolutely.
• 30:52
  I will never forget the first time that Kathy stood a kettle, and we were at our old Green Street uh location, and she and she came in with hair everywhere and her nose was running.
• 31:06
  I said, What?
• 31:07
  What happened to you?
• 31:09
  It was like five degrees.
• 31:12
  I I was so miserable.
• 31:14
  I was like, I've never and I had to leave that kettle and go to a corporate office and and do a presentation, and I look like something that had just rolled down the hill.
• 31:24
  Yeah, that that William Blue picked up in the east end of London.
• 31:30
  Major, this is always people ask this about strange things in the kettle.
• 31:35
  Um, what kinds of things have you gotten in the kettle?
• 31:38
  And then I'm gonna tell mine unless you tell it first.
• 31:41
  Well, I I will include it, but I I love your version of the story as well.
• 31:45
  We have actually, you know, uh received um you name it, and and it has found its way into our kettle.
• 31:53
  Uh we have found uh wedding rings with notes that have said it's over.
• 31:57
  Hope you can use this.
• 31:59
  Um I've got one.
• 32:01
  I saw that one.
• 32:01
  I saw that one.
• 32:03
  Yes.
• 32:04
  Uh probably the most one of the most unique ones was uh somebody put a partial plate in the kettle that had gold fillings in it.
• 32:14
  Teeth.
• 32:15
  Teeth.
• 32:16
  Yes.
• 32:18
  Yes, we actually we actually took it to a gold dealer and and we made two or three hundred dollars out of that that uh those teeth.
• 32:27
  Yes.
• 32:30
  No.
• 32:31
  Yes, yes, absolutely.
• 32:33
  Yeah.
• 32:34
  And there were always some of those gold coins.
• 32:36
  I mean, you hear those news stories.
• 32:38
  I know we had that and with the Salvation Army I worked at new almost every year, something.
• 32:42
  Are cougar ants or what?
• 32:44
  Uh cougarans, not only from the United States, but for other from other places around the world.
• 32:49
  And the way that you were able to tell was the weight of it.
• 32:53
  It was much heavier than anything else that you had in in the kettle in terms of of change.
• 32:58
  You know, so it stood out.
• 32:59
  So um we benefited um uh many times uh with people, you know, donating their their gold pieces, their rings, their jewelry, uh, actual coins, collector items and teeth.
• 33:14
  Yes.
• 33:15
  Yes.
• 33:15
  What I you know, I and I will say this.
• 33:18
  I mean, uh as an employee of the Salvation Army, you were required to take a shift at the kettle.
• 33:24
  All the board members were theoretically required to take shifts at the kettles, and most did, I think.
• 33:30
  Um, if that is something you have never done, if you're listening, I highly suggest doing it.
• 33:36
  I highly suggest taking your kids to do it.
• 33:39
  My husband and I did that um for when the girl our girls were little.
• 33:43
  Um, they we'd take a four-hour shift and we'd swap them out.
• 33:46
  They couldn't stand there all four hours.
• 33:48
  We'd take you know, turns, and then finally someone else would pick them up, my parents or somebody after two year hours.
• 33:54
  But it is amazing.
• 33:55
  The people that kind of blow you off and say just ignore you, and then the people that are overly generous and tell you their story.
• 34:04
  Is that not true, Major?
• 34:06
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 34:07
  The the the stories that you hear, you know, from people that you would never believe where where they came from or what they have experienced, uh, but with you know, tears in their eyes and with great emotion, you know, they they give what they have into that kettle and they share their story, and uh they very much become a part of the Salvation Army's Christmas story.
• 34:30
  I remember my kids saying um one time, you know, oh, he has a nice car, he's gonna give a lot of money.
• 34:36
  They would see them pool in the parking lot of the store, and then they wouldn't give them anything, and then the person who looked like they were, as you said, from that east end of London would come up and um give seemingly everything they had, or bags of coins, or that they helped they save bags of coins just to put in the kettle.
• 34:56
  And I know, Major, um, and if you if you want to talk about it or not, Stephanie mentioned volunteers.
• 35:02
  The Salvation Army actually you didn't get enough volunteers, so we actually employed some of our clients to help to give them some seasonal income at the kettles as well, correct?
• 35:12
  Um absolutely.
• 35:13
  Uh, nine times out of ten, um, you know, during during the weeks, during the weekdays, um, we do have paid staff who are at the kettles.
• 35:22
  Many of those individuals are on fixed income or no income.
• 35:26
  You know, some are jobless, some are homeless.
• 35:29
  Many of them are clients of ours who really want to, and you know, in some small way give back to the Salvation Army for the help the army has given to them.
• 35:38
  Um, so yeah, you know, when you see those the those people standing there ringing those bells, um, they have a story too.
• 35:46
  Absolutely.
• 35:47
  I always say I don't know if there's anything, and and I know that because I know the people that we hired, and I know some of them came back year after year, and um they had a lot of challenges in their lives.
• 35:57
  Um you would even pick them up, you would take them in the van to their place, you would take them home.
• 36:05
  We would give them food so they had um I don't know if there's anything more gratifying in my life than if you see a bell ringer, offer to buy them coffee or lunch.
• 36:16
  Is that not one of the nicest things you could do?
• 36:18
  Uh absolutely, and and for many of them, that may be the only meal that they have hot meal that they have that day.
• 36:26
  So, you know, absolutely offer.
• 36:28
  Yes, we have it.
• 36:30
  We had some fun stories with that as well with uh some of the bell ringers, but um, you know, it again, and how would someone go bad if they want to?
• 36:39
  I mean, we this is going all over the country.
• 36:41
  If someone wanted to do that, I guess they would just contact the salvation army nearest them, correct?
• 36:45
  To volunteer?
• 36:46
  You know, probably the easy easiest way, um, Kathy, is to go online.
• 36:50
  I mean, most people have access, you know, to to computers and just you know type in the Salvation Army in their community, and something will pop up, and they're really uh easy to navigate, most of those websites, you know, to get in touch with your local Salvation Army and you know, sign up in some way, you know, to help.
• 37:09
  Maybe it's not you know standing at a kettle, but there's certainly uh many other um opportunities, you know, to volunteer not only at Christmas time, but uh throughout the year.
• 37:19
  You know, the Salvation Army exists not because of those who necessarily put the uniform on, uh, but those who are willing to come alongside and and support and help the Salvation Army by volunteering.
• 37:33
  So the kettles have been around for over a hundred years.
• 37:35
  Um the beginning, I think it was 1905, 1915 or something in San Francisco.
• 37:40
  Um, and then but then we had World War One.
• 37:44
  And um the Salvation Stephanie, here's another um story that'll blow you away.
• 37:50
  The Salvation Army during the war, um, did something that has a link to donut day today.
• 37:56
  So can you share what that story is, Major Griner?
• 37:58
  What is what is donut day?
• 38:00
  I mean, I heard you mention it, but I actually have no clue what you guys are.
• 38:03
  She she eats really really well, Major, so she probably doesn't even know what a donut is.
• 38:07
  So we do during the first world war, was which was very much a trench war that was you know fought in in Europe, and uh to be in those trenches was you know a horrible place, you know, to be for many reasons, but the salvation army was not in the the back lines, we were in the front lines.
• 38:30
  We would go into those trenches, most of them were women, Salvation Army officers, soldiers, volunteers who would go in and they would uh bake donuts, you know, for the uh for the uh the military uh boys who were in those trenches and they would serve them donuts and hot coffee.
• 38:51
  And how did they make those donuts?
• 38:54
  Ooh, tell it.
• 38:58
  That's that's that that's a good question.
• 39:00
  Whatever they whatever they had available to it to them at that particular time.
• 39:05
  I mean, obviously being in a trench, obviously whatever they needed they had to bring with them.
• 39:11
  Um, but they were very um creative and ingenious about how they did that.
• 39:17
  And then every year since then, the Salvation Army has had National Donut Day, where where we remember not only you know the Salvation Army serving in the trenches, but the men and women who also have served in the trenches over the years and the many wars that have taken on in our world.
• 39:38
  So I want to restate that there were soldiers in trenches on the front lines, and these women, Salvation Army officers went right to where they were in these trenches during the war to boost the morale of the soldiers.
• 39:53
  They weren't back at base camps, they were right there on the front lines.
• 39:56
  Can we just go back to how the donuts were made?
• 39:59
  I don't feel
• 40:00
  Like we were very clear.
• 40:03
  They would take they would take somebody's helmet, actually.
• 40:06
  They would mix up the dough in the soldier's helmet.
• 40:09
  They would bake them on an open fire and serve them from there.
• 40:15
  It's very, very simple, very rustic.
• 40:17
  They use whatever was available.
• 40:20
  The these stories, and and I again, I worked at the Salvation Army for 11 years.
• 40:26
  These stories were passed down to families such that I got more than one, numerous, and I know you did too, Major, of families that gave money the Salvation Army in 2019 because of one of their great grandfathers getting donuts on the front lines in the war in the beginning in the World War One.
• 40:50
  Yes.
• 40:50
  When when other well-known established charities at that time would shall remain nameless.
• 40:57
  Yes.
• 40:58
  Would uh charge the military folks for you know whatever they were giving out.
• 41:02
  The Salvation Army always did it for free.
• 41:05
  There was never any cost.
• 41:06
  And that has um continued uh to this day.
• 41:09
  Our our services that that we provide are at no cost to that individual.
• 41:14
  There are no no strings attached attached.
• 41:17
  It is just really meeting whatever that person's need is in that moment with what we have.
• 41:23
  Now let me just ask.
• 41:25
  I mean, that that's really cool.
• 41:26
  I'm still thinking about the bacteria and the helmet, but I'm over it.
• 41:29
  Just let it go, Stephanie.
• 41:31
  But I'm wondering, so we you so National Donut Day is because of you guys.
• 41:35
  Yes.
• 41:36
  Salvation Army, yes, we started it.
• 41:38
  And so what happens on am I supposed to be giving out free donuts on National Donut Day?
• 41:42
  What's actually happening here?
• 41:43
  I've always ignored it, but now I feel like perhaps I should pay attention.
• 41:48
  You want to take that one, Kathy?
• 41:50
  Or um, yes, it's uh what is it?
• 41:52
  I think June 6th.
• 41:53
  Yeah, it's June 6th.
• 41:55
  It's you'll see it in advertising because a lot of the major chains do not give credit to the Salvation Army, which is always annoying.
• 42:03
  But it is it originated because of the Salvation Army and honoring those where they were called donut lassies, these women who went on the front lines a hundred years ago.
• 42:11
  That might be your new name.
• 42:13
  Donut lassie.
• 42:14
  Um, this is a funny story, Stephanie.
• 42:16
  Major Garner remembers this.
• 42:17
  One time, Entamins called us and had I don't know, dozens and dozens of box donuts they wanted us to take to a military installation to thank the military, and they asked if I could pick it up.
• 42:28
  So I said, sure.
• 42:29
  And I at that time was going to Weight Watchers on Friday morning.
• 42:34
  And Weight Watchers gives you a name tag at the time, and I had my Weight Watchers name tag on, forgot I had it on, and then went to the Entamon's warehouse where I stood and talked to all the employees, Stephanie, while I was picking up I don't know, 50 hundred dozen donuts the whole time with a Weight Watchers name tag on in front of them.
• 42:54
  Nobody told me.
• 42:55
  I didn't even notice till I got back to the office, took it to the military establishment.
• 42:59
  So did they all make it, or did you have one or two on the way?
• 43:03
  I'm just curious.
• 43:04
  I had my just phone weight watchers, Stephanie.
• 43:07
  I just how long I mean, you know, how long does that that conviction not to eat that last?
• 43:14
  I I don't know.
• 43:16
  Um, but yeah, I say that because pictures we can show you.
• 43:21
  Probably but the Salvation Army, it didn't end with the wars, um, disasters.
• 43:28
  Salvation Army is one of the main disaster response providers in the United States to this day.
• 43:33
  And you want to share that about how that all works.
• 43:37
  Yes, um, every every territory has established a um a national emergency response um program.
• 43:46
  Uh those programs are are then um spread out among the territory.
• 43:52
  Um a lot of the core, I can only speak for the Eastern Territory, um, have emergency canteens.
• 43:58
  I know the Harrisburg Salvation Army um has one uh through the generosity of our county commissioners.
• 44:05
  Uh, but when there's a disaster, uh the Salvation Army uh mobilizes uh very quickly uh to meet that disaster.
• 44:12
  It doesn't necessarily have to be in our community, could be anywhere in the United States, actually anywhere around the world, and the Salvation Army is ready at a moment's notice um to send in you know volunteers and supplies and emergency vehicles and portable kitchens and portable showers and you know portable washers and dryers for people, just you know, trying to meet the basic needs in every disaster area.
• 44:40
  I think that you know, for us who are on the east coast, it's the southern territory, really, who has the most experience with disasters.
• 44:48
  You know, when you consider tornado Tornado Alley and you consider the number of hurricanes that you know that affect uh the southern states, um, the Salvation Army is extremely um extremely active.
• 45:00
  And uh during one of many of the the really large um hurricanes, uh the Salvation Army from all the territories will send down personnel to the affected areas.
• 45:12
  I I just don't think people realize the scope and uh magnitude of the organization and right now.
• 45:18
  No, even no one has I don't think anyone has any idea.
• 45:21
  I like I'm I feel I like honestly, not true.
• 45:26
  Yeah, you you you don't you don't know us until you need us.
• 45:29
  Yeah, well, and I've been fortunate that I've not needed you, I guess.
• 45:33
  Um you know, I think that's the beauty of we we started this about Christmas because every Salvation Army right now, you've never seen when charities say I'm busy, you've never seen busy and chaotic and controlled chaos like Christmas at the Salvation Army, because I know the Salvation Army we worked at served tens of thousands of people, and then at Christmas, you lopped on another five or six thousand kids and adults um for help with Christmas, but those stories are impactful.
• 45:58
  And if you are somebody who helped with a Salvation Army giving tree or you're donating gifts or you're donating food, I can't tell you the number of times when I had my little Salvation Army shirt on, stopped at the grocery store on the way home.
• 46:11
  I used to love wearing my shirt because people would come up to me and tell me their stories, and that they would, as you said, Major, they would talk about that bear, that stuffed bear or that doll they got as a kid 50, 70 years ago and the impact it made on their lives.
• 46:27
  And I know you've heard those stories in your 42 years a lot.
• 46:32
  Absolutely.
• 46:32
  And and let's a little bit of humor there, they would also pull up in their cars, open their trunks and ask Kathy to take their their clothing and what and their lamps and and whatever else they had in their trunk.
• 46:44
  And she willingly did it.
• 46:46
  A lot of times, yes, because it was just easier because they thought I worked at a thrift store.
• 46:49
  Yes.
• 46:50
  Yeah.
• 46:51
  Yeah.
• 46:51
  Most people when they think of the Salvation Army, they think of the red kettles at Christmas time, or they think of our thrift stores, which you know, those two things are what are what is most visible, you know, throughout the year all the time.
• 47:02
  Um, but the Salvation Army is at work 365 days a year.
• 47:06
  We don't close our doors.
• 47:08
  You know, even during the pandemic, we never we never closed for for a single day.
• 47:12
  We kept serving the community.
• 47:14
  So you're open on Christmas Day too.
• 47:16
  We are not open on Christmas Day.
• 47:18
  Thanks, Stephanie.
• 47:19
  Now I feel lied to right now.
• 47:26
  But there have been occasions in my officership where I have you know lived either close to or on the same property with the Salvation Army when people have come to us at Christmas time, Christmas Day.
• 47:37
  And uh I again I we don't turn them away.
• 47:40
  We try and help them as much as we can.
• 47:42
  Um a Salvation Army officers, and I always mention this, they're pastors, so they're pastoring a church, but they're also, I know you, Major, you pastored a church, you had all of that, but then you were also operating a multi-million dollar social service entity.
• 47:56
  And I don't think people realize that the full dedication.
• 47:59
  When a Salvation Army person goes to officers' training school, they go all in.
• 48:04
  Like they can't have debt, correct?
• 48:06
  They have to have paid all their debt and they and the commitment and the Salvation Army owns their homes or cars and everything so that they can be deployed if needed, right?
• 48:14
  Absolutely.
• 48:15
  Uh, when we go from what we call appointment to appointment or community to a commun to another community, um, all we do is pack our pack our clothes and and we move.
• 48:23
  I mean, we don't own anything, we don't own the houses we we live in, which are very nice.
• 48:27
  Uh, we don't own the cars that we drive, uh, which are very nice if you if you you know take care of them.
• 48:33
  And uh the furnishings in the home are not ours, uh ours either.
• 48:37
  Um, but it's not about you know the house and the car and and whatever, it's not the material things that you get um when you when you join ranks with the salvation army, it is a wholehearted commitment um to the mission of the Salvation Army, uh, to the whosoever, the down and out, the up and out, doesn't matter who it is.
• 48:58
  You have to be all in, you won't survive it.
• 49:01
  And again, those stories, um, I'll never forget.
• 49:04
  I mean, there are so many stories of impact that I heard in my years there, and I would just say, Wow, it gave me a whole new perspective.
• 49:11
  I I and again, if you're helping the Salvation Army, the difference it can make.
• 49:15
  One man one time on a call, remember, Major, he asked called he wanted to put the Salvation Army in his will.
• 49:20
  He needed the information.
• 49:22
  I said, I'll come talk to you.
• 49:23
  He said, No, I need it right to death going today.
• 49:25
  I said, Why are you making doing this?
• 49:27
  And at that point, he started crying uncontrollably and told me, oh, in the 50s, he came to the Salvation Army office where we worked, and there was an event, and they had watermelon and there was a small charge.
• 49:40
  It was probably a fundraising event, actually.
• 49:43
  And his mother only had enough money for he or his brother to get watermelons.
• 49:47
  So he asked the Salvation Army officer to cut it in half so they could each have some.
• 49:52
  Of course, she said no, they could each have their own.
• 49:55
  And he said, and I'll never forget this, he said that moment changed my life because if I realized if someone could
• 50:00
  Be that kind to me, I could be kind.
• 50:01
  And 50 years later, that's why he was leaving his wealth, and I don't know if it was $100 or $100 million to the Salvation Army for other kids.
• 50:11
  And I'm sure you heard the and that impact in me.
• 50:14
  Just when we think we're doing something, buying that toy, taking that tag off the tree, it can have forever impact, right?
• 50:21
  Absolutely.
• 50:22
  Absolutely.
• 50:24
  Many Salvation Army officers, you know, have have their own stories as well.
• 50:28
  Um, you know, I grew up in a single parent family.
• 50:31
  There were four of us.
• 50:32
  My mother worked.
• 50:34
  We were never on welfare.
• 50:35
  We were poor, but we we didn't know it.
• 50:38
  And I can remember one particular, you know, Christmas.
• 50:40
  We were adopted by a local church.
• 50:43
  And um one of the gifts that I opened um was a box of of used shirts.
• 50:49
  And I remember thinking to myself, I am no no more valuable than a used shirt to somebody.
• 50:57
  And I think at that moment, that was a pivotal point in my life.
• 51:02
  Where I was determined that if I had the opportunity or the ability, no one would ever feel like they're a used shirt.
• 51:11
  Wow.
• 51:11
  Which is why we don't take used things.
• 51:14
  We don't, you know, take used clothing to wrap up a nice presence and nice paper and give and give to people.
• 51:21
  Um, people are valuable.
• 51:23
  You know, Jesus died for the whole world, every single person, doesn't matter who they are, where they've come from, what their walk of life is life is.
• 51:30
  Um, they have value, and we need to treat them like they have value.
• 51:35
  So whether they deserve it or not.
• 51:37
  So, how does someone get involved?
• 51:39
  Like, you know, how does someone become a bell ringer, or how does someone volunteer some hours?
• 51:44
  Like, what is it that people can do to support the organization?
• 51:49
  Uh the best way to do it to do it is to get in touch with your local Salvation Army.
• 51:53
  Again, the easiest way is just to uh Google Salvation Army and more than likely whatever territory you're in for the East, Eastern territory will come up, but we'll also have a list of all of the core in that territory, and you can find out which one is closest to you, give them a call.
• 52:10
  Just give them a call.
• 52:13
  And you know, here's the big thing.
• 52:14
  Everybody, a lot of people want to do things at Christmas, and that's wonderful.
• 52:18
  If somebody is hungry on December 24th, they are chances are they are hungry on February 24th.
• 52:24
  So you can help all year round.
• 52:26
  Do you have any last words of encouragement or to tell people this Christmas season, Major?
• 52:32
  Um, only that um, you know, many hands make work light, and uh the Salvation Army is what it is today, uh, because of people who um you know are not so much thinking about themselves, but thinking about other people.
• 52:49
  And you know, the smallest kindness uh in the world can make a world of difference uh to somebody's life.
• 52:57
  So um if if if you can't find any nice people in the world, then then be one to somebody.
• 53:04
  That's good advice.
• 53:06
  That's good advice.
• 53:08
  Wow.
• 53:09
  This uh, you know, I tell you what, Kathy.
• 53:11
  This is for me is very impactful.
• 53:13
  I don't know why, but I I felt like tearing up a little bit talking about the youth shirts and the guy who you know didn't have to split the watermelon.
• 53:21
  I mean, these small things that I personally probably take for granted.
• 53:27
  Stephanie, I think this is the thing I think is amazing.
• 53:31
  Major shared his story with the used shirts of getting that and that impact.
• 53:34
  That's that was when he was a kid 50 plus years ago, and how he has not forgotten that.
• 53:38
  Um, that happens.
• 53:39
  I was just out last week for dinner, and uh a woman talked to me.
• 53:43
  I talked to her, she's well known in our community.
• 53:46
  I walked out thinking that woman at one point in a salvation army event, and she was there as a sponsor, was crying her eyes out because she said I was that kid, and her best friend was there with her.
• 53:56
  Her friend had no idea what her life was like as a kid.
• 54:00
  And I know sometimes people say, like, and we're conservative on this show, we talk, but there's a whole lot of kids that are in situations not of their choosing, and that's why you can help them and you could show them as major said that impacted his life, and he's served others and served God since that because of that situation that wasn't so good, but you can be also that situation for good, and it makes a huge difference.
• 54:21
  I I can't we're not talking about huge things, we're talking about small, just this opportunities of niceness.
• 54:32
  I mean especially for children, and I again I think I used to have people when I worked there, they'd be like, ah, these people, it's their fault, whatever.
• 54:40
  Maybe sometimes, yes, but what a child, it's not the child's not the child's.
• 54:47
  No, the child's never a call.
• 54:48
  That's why you have the power as an individual of if you've um can bless someone else to do it, and especially at Christmas, because that's really meaningful because kids see other kids um, you know, getting things and participating in um life and good times.
• 55:05
  So did you learn something today, Stephanie?
• 55:07
  Yeah, I I feel like I want to go out and find a kid and just give them some watermelon and some brand new shirts, and like I don't know, I want to go find these kids.
• 55:17
  I want to take them in.
• 55:19
  Now I will say, as opposed to just going out in the street and doing that, Stephanie, it is better to call like the Salvation Army because they have vetted these families and sign them up, and so that is also there is a degree of accountability that I think are important to donors, and that is something the Salvation Army works hard to do.
• 55:36
  So that is a better, better way route than you're just I'm gonna go find a kid.
• 55:40
  Look, I'm gonna go find a kid, and I'll call Salvation Army.
• 55:43
  I can't.
• 55:44
  And if you're if you're just going to some strange kid and saying, here's some watermelon in a shirt, you might be brought up on charges, Stephanie.
• 55:50
  That's yes, but that's why I have you to get me out.
• 55:53
  I'm not I'm not answering that call.
• 55:55
  I'm like, I don't know her.
• 55:56
  That's your that's your job.
• 55:58
  You're my like co-partner in life of podcasting.
• 56:01
  You have to.
• 56:03
  Well, I just wanted we wanted to bring this to share the story of the Salvation Army, which is you know an iconic part of our Christmas traditions in the United States.
• 56:12
  It's a great story.
• 56:14
  And um, you know, I hope it motivates people to want to support not just uh Salvation Army, but any charity in your area, people doing good things and making a difference.
• 56:23
  Yeah, and we just all need to take that time, just just a moment to pay attention, to give back in some way to make someone's day a little bit better, even if it seems insignificant.
• 56:35
  And William Booth was like what we encourage people to do every week on this show.
• 56:40
  He bucked the system, he did, and he kept going regardless of what other people said or did, including stoning, apparently.
• 56:49
  And so, just like William Booth, wherever you are, to the extent that you are able, stand up, step forward, and speak out.
• 57:00
  Merry Christmas.
• 57:01
  Merry Christmas.