Latest / LUZ musings / What All Parents Need to Know About Connecting and Attaching to Their Little Ones with Sarah Cooper
Transcript
- riverside sarah cooper danielle j. miller' (1): Hello and welcome to Lose Musings. I'm your host, Dr. Danielle Miller. We are focusing on the people and ideas that make Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, a healthier place to live. Now back to the episode. Welcome to Lose Musings. I'm Dr. Danielle Miller and I am here today with Sarah Cooper of Baby and Me. Sarah, welcome. We are so excited to have you here. We have been interviewing different teammates of Lou's and different professionals in the community, some of whom work for large companies, but you do not work for a large company. And I would love for you to tell us what is Baby and Me and how do Baby and Me come to be. Yes, I work for myself, which we were just talking about, which is amazing. So I am the owner and sole proprietor of Baby Me. Baby Me is an early parenting support for anyone who loves little ones, professionals, families in particular. So I started Baby Me truly as a passion project. This was a need that I had for my family that I couldn't find. It wasn't available when I was raising my littles. I had four under six at one point. That's a few. It was a few. It is a few. Yes. and I really I needed a different type of help than what I could find. I was saying, I'm seeing this in my child, and I need help in how to address it. I need the support in what to do. And it's causing really big feelings in myself. And I couldn't find a single person who was willing to talk to me about how to be a parent. To multiple children, how to hold all of the emotions. I talk a lot about I used to do time out. I'm I'm old enough to have been doing time out and we had a red chair in my house. The kids can all talk about it. And and there's a better way. There's there's a much better way. And I wish that I had had that person that could have come beside me, held my child and myself. As we navigated these bigger challenges. So this is an absolute passion project because I have the background in early childhood education, special education, infant and early childhood mental health, and I still couldn't do it as a parent. So if I couldn't do it, I know it's hard. It's incredibly difficult to be a parent, particularly particularly a parent of littles. Thank you for saying that. My youngest is currently eight and I'm listening to this and I feel like I'm there. I feel like I'm right back there. The feelings of inadequacy, overwhelm, juggling that you can't possibly figure out. Confusion. Confusion. Shame. Shame. Grief. Grief. Failed expectations. Yes. Yeah. I mean, there's just so much. And I think there's a lot that we are not prepared for. As a physician, I was trained to deliver babies, but delivering a baby, I felt completely unprepared, right? Same goes for parenting. And feeding and all these things. So thank you for summarizing that. remind us when did Baby and Me come to be? When did this business begin? So Baby and Me has been it officially a business for two years now, very exciting. I've been in the field for two decades. But it was it was time for me to approach it from a way that I didn't feel was available to families. There are a lot of resources out there. there are a lot of behavioral supports for families, particularly if your child receives a diagnosis. There are a lot of ways to access resources. For those that don't fit into those nice, neat categories, for those families that don't get a diagnosis, don't want a diagnosis, can't figure out what's going on. I had a little one. That we could not figure out what his need was. He couldn't get a diagnosis because he was a wonder. He still is a wonder. Yeah. We needed help and there was no nice neat route for us to go. So it's a space for anyone who says, I want to parent with intention. I want to be thoughtful about the way I am raising my children. And I know it's really hard for me as well. Because it's also the first time I'm doing it. Yep. So that's the space that Baby and Me has has tried to enter and to be available for anyone who needs it. I love that. talk to us about the age range of families with children that you serve. Yes. So I serve prenatal. So starting all the way from pregnancy, there's a lot of time where you can be thoughtful and intentional about the parent that you want to. We talk a lot about physical pregnancy. We talk a lot about delivery. We talk a lot about, ooh, if we're lucky, we get to talk about breastfeeding and maybe a little bit of what to expect postpartum, but we don't talk about thinking about becoming a parent. And wouldn't it be lovely if we did? What might be different if we started with intention? So we get curious about what did it feel like when you were growing up? What was your experience like? What would you like to bring with you? What would you like to leave behind? If you have a partner, same. What do they remember? How do they expect to become a parent? And looking at where those things line up. And where they don't and having a plan as much as humanly possible for thinking about this is the way I want to approach parenting. How do you feel about that? What will that look like? Who is going to tackle that two AM screaming baby? Yes. W someone has to. Who will it be? Yeah. So postpartum, i really starting intentionally, being really thoughtful about this is what I would like. Even if you already have one child, now you're adding a sibling. How is that going to work? How will you be splitting up those duties? What is your older sibling going to be experiencing? How can we prepare them for being an older brother or sister? and then moving all the way through. So immediately postpartum, we know there are a ton of things that change. Baby is here. We don't know baby. We've just met baby. So baby is their own person. Baby is their own person. Yeah. And we need to learn. About baby. We need to understand what baby's cues are. We need to experience the dramatic shift in hormones of the birthing person that can cause a lot of different experiences and emotions in that immediate postpartum phase. So asking for help in that time, really thinking about how is this making me feel? How do I regulate myself? How do I notice my baby's cues? How do I feel reassured that I am doing everything I need to be doing in this in this period because it can so very quickly feel very overwhelming and it can be very helpful to have someone come in and go. Baby's thriving, you're doing it. and have that reassurance and be able to ask those questions. What does this mean when he makes that face? what do I do when this I have one baby that's nursing and I have a toddler who is jumping on the couch and I have a dog that needs to go out. So and and and we can look at all of those pieces and hold all of those pieces at once. Amazing. So then we go up. Yep. baby gets bigger, now you have a moving baby. Now you have a baby who is touching things you don't want them to touch. how do we support the environment? How do we help you when baby gets frustrated and cries because you've picked them up and moved them? We move into the toddler phase where now they're walking and now they're really exploring and now they're getting into all kinds of things you didn't want them to, and now they're throwing tantrums, and now you're trying to figure out what in the world it means when they drop to the floor and why. I just you. A banana. you said you wanted the banana, but you didn't actually want the banana. So now we're screaming. So no, familiar. This is so familiar. I love it. so Todd, there's, and then into preschool as well. So I go all the way up to six. Okay. Is my comfort zone. But preschoolers come with a ton of whys, a ton of big emotions, you have friendships to navigate, you have maybe preschool that you're thinking about. What does it look like to be in the care of? of others, how do you feel about when your child comes home and has a big tantrum because they had to hold it together all day? And and and that's in the normal course of development. We've just hit like a million pieces that need to be considered. And then of course you have any type of difficulty that comes along. So life. Life. Baby was in the NICU for sure for any reason. Sure. had a a big illness early on, you're struggling as a parent with any type of mental health needs that have either predated family or have come upon after. Separation. Partner maybe is there, isn't there? You have in-laws or you don't have in-laws. They have opinions that you may or may not feel great about. little one is showing signs of something that you don't quite understand. You have questions about developmentally appropriate expectations and milestones. All of those pieces can kind of be touched in the same way. We just get curious about what does it feel like, what does it look like? What are the interactions? actions look like and how do we make sure that everybody is getting what they need within the relationship. Beautiful. Yes. so all the way from pregnancy through six years after birth, which is quite a long time with as you said, many, many different seasons. So many. Describe for me if you can, Sarah. There's certainly some people in the space of parenting and parenting support. And what's always struck me about Baby and Me is that it's not just parenting support. with your background in education and attachment and even special needs, which certainly affects some families but not all, but you have a really diverse and full professional background. So just talk to us about what may be special and important about baby and me that someone might be looking for. What might might make them say, I think I really need to work with Sarah. Sure. Yeah, good question. Thank you. So two pieces in that. One is yes, my professional background holds a whole bunch of things. Early childhood, infant and early childhood mental health, special education, perinatal mental Mm-hmm. I will say that for almost all of those categories, I also experienced every one of those. As a human, as a mother, as a professional, I I have my own personal experience in all of these spaces. And so one, I'm deeply, deeply empathetic to parents and to the ridiculously difficult job of being a parent to a a little one. And so that's one thing that sets me apart. And the other part I think is is really the relational aspect. And what I mean by that is a lot of supports kind of come in and say, okay, your child is doing this. We don't want them to do this. So we're gonna give you a script and you're gonna do this, and then you're gonna do this, and then you're gonna do this. And while there may be times when that's appropriate, ish. I don't do this. I don't do that. Okay. so we are going to be partners in whatever it is you're bringing, and we are going to be attending to what's going on for you as the parent in that space as well. So i a personal example for me, I so I have four children. I think I said that. I have four children. I have two through foster and adoption, and I have two biologists. And And three out of four have special needs. So I have had so many people in and out of our family in a myriad of ways. And that was the piece that was always missing: was nobody was asking me about my experience. Nobody was attending to what it felt like for me in these really difficult moments. And I genuinely believe that. That our family path would have been different if someone had held both me and my children at the same time. And so it's really, really, really important to me that in my work I work to see both or all or everyone at the same time. Because you can't give to your child what you have not experienced yourself. So if I'm asking you to respond to your child with curiosity and empathy, I need you to have that experience somewhere in your life, whether it's with someone in your family or whether it's with me, you're not going to be able to respond to your child with gentle curiosity unless someone has also asked the same of you. I feel emotional. I love it so much. I'm so passionate about what you do. it's really beautiful. the idea you can't pour for an empty cup. And also, how do we know how to do something if we've never seen the thing? Correct. Yeah. Has this episode gotten you thinking about an aspect of your own health or the health of someone you love? Are you interested in learning more about the approach of lose medicine and how we help our patients? Lose Medicine is a medical office here in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, with locations both in Ephreda and Manheim Township. Patients can choose which location they want to join when they become a patient at Lose Medicine. Our office has two main focuses. Firstly, we provide primary care for men, women, and children in all ages and stages of life. And secondly, we offer additional services for hormone health. For those who are interested. Whether patients come to LOES for their primary care or a specific hormone focus, the tie that binds is the same. We listen to our patients and provide exceptional medical care. Our holistic approach puts you at the center of your journey, where we are here to support you in your best health. To join our practice, check out losemedicine.com, that's luzmedicine.com, where you can learn more about our practice and sign up directly online. If you have any questions, we're here to help as well. We would love for you to be our very next patient at Lou's. Parenting feels like it should be hosmoc, or we should just know it, or there's this magical rule book or guidebook that I think we all kind of missed at the time of delivery, but we feel like we should have. And so you're really naming so well what isn't there and providing a bridge from The other side of the chasm of it's just not there. But we I believe as parents, and this is why I love again so much of what you do. Parenting with intentionality is just that's always how I think about parenting. I that's what I like to read about for fun when I'm not working is parenting. Parenting me too. Yeah, exactly. So that you know, we feel like we're missing the boat, we didn't get this huge chunk of information, but there and then on the other side of the chasm we can get there, but we need models and guidance and experience and I think empathy really to get us there. Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things That I've started to think about in in I'm constantly thinking about about this work, about babies, about parents. but I I was was saying for a long time, you know, we we don't get a parenting manual, right? That's so very old school. You've heard it a million times. There's no there's no such thing as a parenting manual. What I've started to think about more recently is actually we do have. We have a parenting manual that is already a part of us. We were children. And so we had an experience of being parented. Guess what happens if you're not thinking about how you want to be a parent? You open your mouth and your parent comes out, whether you wanted them to or not. And if you're lucky, if you're lucky, you had a great parent. You had a great just one would be great. A mom, a dad, a grandparent, whoever it is. If you're lucky you had one and you open your mouth and and their gentle and kind words come out. For a lot of us, particularly in this generation, where that wasn't how we were raised. We certainly were not raised with emotional attunement. gentle parenting was not a thing. So those of us that didn't have that experience, we open our mouth and something really horrific comes out. Or surprising. Or surprising. And you're like, familiar. I know exactly who said that when I was growing up. But so we have a parenting manual, whether we want it or not. And what I've started to kind of of move towards is let's rewrite it if we can. If you want to, if that's something that you feel compelled to do, let's let's redo some chapters where you didn't really appreciate how it felt growing up and you would like to have something different for your child. Beautiful, beautiful. So we can change the future. Absolutely. Yeah, which is exciting. We can give our kids the best possible start, a continuation in their journey and yeah. And help them be who they need to be. Yes. When you're describing being that bridge and walking with people along that bridge, I'm thinking instead of a parenting coach, I'm almost thinking a parenting doula. You know? Yeah, yeah, I love that. That's something that when I started having kiddos, I didn't really know what a doula was. It wasn't very popular. Now, of course, I think everyone knows what a doula is. so the idea of holding space. When I think about that phrase, I think about a doula, a birth doula or a postpartum doula, but really you're describing that in the parenting experience. Yes, I love that. I love parenting doula. Yes. I hope everyone knows what a doula is. Yeah, maybe you can just describe that. Sure, yeah, yeah. so a doula is for pregnancy delivery postpartum, different doula's kind of hold different spaces. But yes, that it is a person who is literally there to provide emotional support during all of these very, very difficult times. And And I had a doula for for both of my births a long time ago. I won't say how long. And you're so cool and first of the wave because I didn't know what a doula was. I I yes, I I do th it was a thing. But you you had to work to find them. Yeah, this was not yeah. but it It was transformational. I mean, and in a very, very, very difficult moment in your life that's also incredibly physically taxing and hard, those of you that are pregnant, we're we're not sugarcoating. It's it's painful. and it's transformative. It is absolutely transformative. There's nothing like it. And having that person whose sole role it was to be there to help me navigate these difficult moments was game changing. And so yeah. Yeah, I think the exact same thing. If you have someone that can walk alongside you during really tough moments of life of being a parent to this new person that you're learning about as you're learning how to parent yourself and having that space of going, Hmm, is this okay? What do I what do I do with this? Right. So to be able to go and and look at it and get curious about, hmm, that didn't exactly feel like I wanted it to, what can I do differently? What cues are my child giving me that tell me about what they might need through this and how do I better navigate it next time? Amazing. I think about some patients and and friends and loved ones I know who when they're preparing for birth they assemble their team. They have their midwife or OB, they might have a birth or a postpartum doula or both if they're really lucky. They might have a lactation person either on the back burner or on the friend of mine. So it sounds like having someone like you as far as a pregnancy postpartum, early childhood support person, educator, parenting expert, that could be in their arsenal, right? As they assemble their team. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I would be honored to be considered among all of those really important people. We we I've you know talked with a lot of lactation consultants who would also love to be at the forefront getting getting. To pregnant moms ahead of birth. Yeah. It turns out this I did not have when I was giving birth, but there's a lot you can learn about how to breastfeed, how to nurse prior to giving birth. And you can feel more prepared. You can have all the pieces and the parts for the pump, and you need to know your nipple size. I didn't know any of that. But same for parenting, same for what do I do with this brand new baby? do I do with this flood of emotion? What do I do when the the tried and true like, you'll fall in love as soon as you see them doesn't always happen. And so how do you navigate that experience of like, I I want to, of course I do, but also they're they're kind of squirmy and cry. So I don't feel that either. And they definitely don't speak. It cannot tell you what they need. For a long time, actually. Yeah. Yeah, that's neat. wow, I feel excited about the idea of you know, patients when they tell me I'm gonna be working with a doula or a lactation person, it's because either they're really, really hopeful towards a particular goal or they've had a challenging experience in the past. Yes. Or they just know it's a big deal. Yes and they want Want to do the best they can. Yeah. And so I think parenting is that way too. It's a it's either a big deal, I mean, I think it's always a big deal, but sometimes you really feel that. You really just know my life is about to change, I'm gonna be doing this thing all the time that I never did, or I've been doing it, but this feels different. Maybe I didn't have as much time between the last baby and this baby, maybe I had a long time, maybe my other child or children were especially taxing in one way or another, and I want to rise to the occasion better. So to me, It just feels like having that birth postpartum team, having a parenting support person just feels like a natural fit. I agree. Yeah. I I think you've named so many of those moments where it would make sense, right? to be uncertain about anything that is coming your way is so normal. How are you supposed to know what this is going to feel like, what it's going to look like afterwards. Even if you're on your second, third, fourth kid. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's different every time. And you're adding a person to the family every time. So you're you're re-establishing everybody's role. in real time with the baby. So yeah, it's it's absolutely hard. And maybe we're talking about birth for a minute, but you mentioned having two bio kids and two kids in your family, not from your body. so it sounds like two, there's certainly a place to come alongside a family whose child is entering their home, not through birth. Absolutely. Right? Yes. Yeah. I have two through foster and adoption. So we started out as as foster parents. I don't think I've said this yet. I adore babies. Like I'm I'm obsessed with highly biased. I'm obsessed with babies. I have always been obsessed with babies. I I I genuinely thought that everyone felt the same way I did. It turns out that not everyone is obsessed with babies. So I had to learn that actually way further along in my in my life than I realized. But so yeah, so we I said I want all the babies. That's how we landed here. Sorry. And so there are a lot of unique needs and dynamics that come with foster and adoption. That can be kinship, you can have custody of a family member's child, you can do a private adoption, you can do foster care. It i there are so many ways that a child can come into your house and there can be a ton of needs that surround that for for maybe obvious and maybe not not obvious reasons, but you have less genetic consistency with that child. And so it can Veer in different directions kind of very quickly. You always meet your child for the first time, and you never know, regardless of whether they're adopted or biological, but you are experiencing something that may not be within the framework of your own temperament. And that can present a number of challenges. The child, as you move into those ages where they can start to talk, is going to have a lot of questions. And some of those answers are easy and And some of them are really not so easy and harder to navigate and can bring up big feelings in yourself again. Big surprise. where's my real mommy would be one that comes off the top of my head. And why can't she take care of me? I want to go and live at her house. We've had so many of these conversations in a variety of ways. And they're hard. And they don't always have nice, neat, easy answers. And so having someone that understands what that feels like can support all of those different conversations. There's lots of books out there, there's lots of ways to approach it. There's developmentally appropriate language. What do you talk about at what age? What's coming down the pike? You have that conversation, or are you already thinking about like what's she gonna ask next? So we can start to prepare and again be intentional about what does that look like down the line? But having someone like you as a parent to even talk to, which is not the same as a book or a Facebook group. It is not, no, it's really special. Yes. and maybe you can even I'm realizing we didn't discuss this, but when you interact with a family, talk to me about if that's virtual or in person, maybe just describe how you're services work as far as the location and sort of nuts and bolts? Yeah so I I'm actually in Harrisburg and I offer in person services within about an hour's range. So Lancaster hey I'm here as well and then I also offer virtual if for whatever reason that's more comfortable or that's what we agree upon or we have to wait until everybody's in bed and it's nine 30 at night while we're having this call. so yeah, we usually start out with an initial consultation where I get to understand what it is you're coming with. You're pregnant, you have questions about how do we start this process, you have a toddler who is having big, big feelings all the time. Multiple, multiple tantrums, really, really struggling with just day-to-day routines. We can kind of get a sense of okay, here's where we need to go. Here's what it might make sense for me to be able to observe. So if you have a little one who's really struggling with big emotions, it might be helpful for me to join you to see what a daily routine looks like, to see how that child is responding to you, what it's bringing up in you. I can kind of like be in your ear, like, how did that feel? Yeah. What do you usually do when he does that? And and then we can kind of draft a plan for, here's what I'm seeing, tell me if this makes sense, here's what it might make sense to try next time, and then really kind of craft it so that it works for your family. It's not a a pat like we just do one, two, three, no matter what. you're experiencing. Right. So based on the situation, the family, what works for them. Yep. What would be the shortest and longest amount of time someone could work with you? I ha I I've done one-off consultations where someone had a somewhat traumatic birth and wanted someone to talk to afterwards and process and was worried about the attachment with with sweet little baby. because it was traumatic because there was a lot going on Her family, and we talked it through, and she cried and felt heard, and we looked at baby and we watched her sleep, and then we watched her nurse, and then we watched her fall asleep again, and we realized that mom was doing absolutely everything she needed to do, and Mom hadn't felt that way until we had the opportunity to stop and look together. She needed that extra set of eyes to really gaze at both of them and notice the attachment that was there that she wasn't feeling as confident about. So we do a one-off. and then there are families that need ongoing support for whatever reason, bigger challenges, bigger emotions, more complex dynamics for whatever reason. And that can be every other week, that can be monthly. If you feel you need a weekly support, that can be just a phone call of a hey, how's it going? Did you try the thing? That was a total disaster. Okay, let's go back to the drawing board. I'll come out and we can look at it again. So it's really it's always tailored to to what the family needs. Awesome. I'm almost hearing a couple things that stick out to me. Just I I think parenting can be so elusive, but also so quick and constant and unrelenting in a way. And so you say if you're talking about what's happening in real time, it's almost on pause or stretched out. And then the mom or the parent or the parents can figure it out because you're actually looking at it in real time rather than it keep pummeling you and snowballing you and you're never coming up for air and knowing what's happening. Yeah. I I I think one of the phrases that I hear so often when I do the work is, I never thought of it that way. Right. So it's really is and sometimes that's really all it takes is I'm bringing another lens to you or your child or the interaction and going, I wonder if instead of assuming that he can't sit for dinner, we can look at what he might need to be successful here. I think you know, we take parenting very personally. And so if he's not sitting at the table like you want him to, you're feeling like this is I'm doing something wrong. He He doesn't want to sit with me, he doesn't enjoy my company, he doesn't like my food. And really, it's none of those things. He's saying, My body is a having a hard time sitting still, and if I had another way to participate in this routine, I would. Right. And also, I love you, Mom. And I just can't I just can't tell you in the way that it feels great to to receive it. So yeah, it is, it it's amazing how well it works. works when you have that voice that can get in there and go, I don't think it's as bad as you think it is. Here's what I'm seeing. Yeah. Yeah. The other wow, I love that. From just what you said and then the other story before that, it's not as bad as you think it is sounds so pleasantly surprising to me. Just thinking through parenting and my experiences, you can be in your head, you can be overwhelmed. I think overwhelm is almost constant and and These seasons that are really hard. or then you're not overwhelmed and you forget because you're so relieved and then you move on. And you forget to to acknowledge the part where it went well. Yes. Just had one of those where mom was we have been working on attachment and mom was talking about how they were reading books at bedtime and she was like, That's you know, I can do that with him and I was like, Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're doing that with him. You're doing the thing. We're not just pushing that off to the side. We need to honor it's These are the moments it is it is working. Beautiful. I just keep thinking of so many more things. w you know, the other part of that, maybe the advantage, the superpower you have is that you're not the parent, the grandparent, the neighbor, the friend, the sister. You're someone who understands how babies' brains work and understand how hard it is to be a parent and a mom. Yeah. And I think when you say, I'm a bad parent, they're not doing the thing I'm thinking, well probably they've heard or gotten looks from people around them saying, Why isn't your kid doing the thing or raising an eyebrow about the kid not doing the thing. So just the idea that someone who understands baby and young children's brains coming in without baggage feels Amazing. There are so so so many opinions that people feel compelled to share. you know, if you've been pregnant, you I imagine have had a stranger come up to you and give you unsolicited advice and it doesn't stop when you have little ones, especially if they're struggling in a public place. If you've got a toddler who melted down at Target. People have thoughts, people have facial expressions, people I just I did a a video where I was like, I if if I am in Target and I hear anyone with difficulties, it is any me I am sending you love. I am sending you all the good vibes because we've all been there. So yes, it is, I do think, and I also get that a lot, like, my my aunt says to do it this way, and my mother-in-law says to do it this way, and my neighbor. Came over and gave me great advice that I don't know if it makes sense. So yes, there and there's a lot. It turns out, hopefully you already know this. There is so much research being done on the way. Baby's brains develop, and the first three years of life are so so critical for brain development. And all of that happens through relationship and through attachment. And so making sure that all of that feels like it's good and you feel connected, your brain, if you're the birthing parent, is also going through massive, massive transformation and is wiring to focus on baby. So when you hear about like mom brain, you forgot where the keys were, it's because your brain is uniquely focused on the baby and thinking almost exclusively about what that baby needs. So there's a ton of change going on and we can use that to our advantage. We can be wired for connection and wired to get that baby the support that they need from from from the jump. I love it. You did the thing where gosh, I never thought about it like that. How many times I can think in my own life, my patients, my friends, where people talk about mom brain and we feel negative. But Sarah's saying mom brain is a sign of the miracle, an amazing thing of us caring so much about this small human we're responsible for. It's not a failure. It's not. It's not. And when you think about taking care of this baby who is you completely dependent on you. Which is also terrifying sometimes. Yes. Who cares where your keys are? Right. And that's your brain going, I could care less. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Did you did you put the the milk in the garage? I don't care. Is the baby okay? baby safe. Great. Have you figured out the differences in the in the cries and the the the whimpers and the sighs? That's what your brain is focused on. That's where all of your energy is going. I love it. Are you, a healthcare professional, looking for a brick and mortar space to further support your own impact with your ideal patient in this community? Do you resonate with Louise Medicine's holistic and whole-person approach to healthcare? If so, you may be a good match for our community partnership opportunity with like-minded practitioners looking to share space for their own work. At Loues Medicine's Manheim Township location, just north of Route 30, we have several spaces available for rent as we grow into this newly renovated large office space. Contact us at Lose Medicineluz Medicine dot com to learn more, and we'd love to explore to find out if we are a good match for one another. We hope to meet you soon. Can you talk for a minute about the concept, maybe some basic definition or explanation around attachment? Because one of my friends was a psych major in college and she knew all about this. And I feel like I just started hearing about attachment recently, and I'm a physician, and that makes me very embarrassed, but you know Attachment is something I I think we should understand as a society and certainly all medical and healthcare professionals should understand and I'm not convinced that that everyone knows what that is. And so can you talk about attachment? Sure, yeah. and you're right. It's this kind of murky like thing that doesn't have any way of being measured. right? Like you you know, you can do an apgar score and you can do a hearing test, you can do a vision test, you can do a blood test. How do you measure it? And so I think that's part of the challenge is it it's not observable in the same way. You can't do you can do an attachment test, but that's a strange situation, that's a whole other podcast. attachment is the unique way Two humans, actually, any two humans connect to one another. So we think about attachment from early on, and we know it's incredibly important for babies to be in an attached relationship, but we also know those babies grow up to be adults, and everyone has an attachment style that was formed from the very first relationship. So attachment is built through repetition. Attachment is built through the response that the baby gets from the primary caregiver. So if baby cries, what happens? This is how baby forms an understanding of how life will work. If I cry, does someone come to take care of me? If I am hungry, does someone feed me? If I am tired, does someone help me fall asleep? And those things have to be done over and over and over and over again because their brains are just forming. The good news about that is it actually only takes 30% of the time. 30% there has been research done. on attachment being secure as long as you can provide that 30% of the time. So you don't have to respond 100% of the time. They instantly. You do not have to pick as soon as that baby cries, take a moment. It's okay. Especially if it brings up big feelings in you, which can happen with a particular cries. My son had one of those like pterodactyl cries. It it's okay and they are going to learn that pattern even thirty percent of the time. Which I think it it reduces that panic in parents of like I have to do it right away and it needs to be right every single time. No, no, no, no. The pattern has to be there. You have to be responsive, you have to be looking for a way to meet the needs of your baby. You don't have to get it right every time, you don't have to get it right the first time. have to keep looking for ways to meet them and meet those needs. And that is attachment over time and that becomes the infant's way of understanding the world. So we want babies who say, we want humans who say, if I need something, I know someone will come and help me. Wow. And beautiful. It is. I love babies. They are pretty magical. wow. So repetition over time, at least 30% of a baby's needs met. you mentioned that three-year mark. Is that when attachment would be pretty fully formed, or is it earlier than that? No, I think it I would say the first three years are when brains are developing at the most rapid pace in an entire human's life. Why? We don't give more focus and money and care and attention to babies. I don't know. But yes, I would say an attachment pattern is nicely and neatly formed at that point. There are always opportunities to change that. But that is how the the brain is developing. Those neural pathways are formed by three. And at that point we're now working to undo them and redo them in a healthier way. So if we can get it right in the first three years, we're golden. It's like a projectile into the future, like a positive. We're laying the foundation for healthy development. Exciting. you mentioned just in that last statement about mom or a parent trying and trying to be there and showing up and and I think of the word curiosity. How can I help? How can I and sort of attuning to I help this baby because you don't know until you know, which takes time to learn. Totally. so maybe the word curiosity, I find that I use that word a lot with my patients when we're stuck around a medical issue or an emotional issue or a parenting issue or a relational issue outside of the household, whatever it is. curiosity, I think, is generally considered a good trait, and we're able to learn and grow, but Parenting is not always a curious experience. I think it can be a really, really, really difficult experience. So can we talk about just briefly, I mean, thoughts you have around why parenting is so hard and Maybe tricks and tips around what makes parenting so so difficult and how we can set ourselves up for success. I guess what I'm really thinking is that I think there's a lot of shame. I think that I don't know why parenting goes right to the shame zone of our souls so often, so quickly, from those closest to us, from the person near us that we've never seen in our lives. I mean, so maybe talk about cultivating and asking. Atmosphere and attitude towards healthy parenting and curiosity versus why shame is such a big deal. I mean, do you have any thoughts around that? Yeah. First, I think I really appreciate that you use curiosity in your practice. this is why Danielle's awesome, because that's not that's not standard practice for for the medical field, certainly. it's like yes, it's this, or or no, it's not, and or nothing's wrong. Right. Or just code for the doctor not knowing. Yes. How I mean and it's an art. Like that's we have to be curious. So yes, a lot of curiosity in my work, in the way that I approach it. We don't know. And that is why it's so difficult, especially in the early years. These adorable little ones don't have the communication to tell us what's going on, what they need, especially in that first year of life. And then gosh, when they get language, the language is no, the language is mine, the language is I do it. and that sets you up for ongoing battles. They are I that's later, ideally. But it it creates the pull in the toddler for autonomy, right? They have figured out that they can go a different direction than where you want them to go. And we want them to learn that. We want them to have autonomy. We also just want them to sit in their car seat when we tell them it's time to sit in their car seat, which it doesn't really buckle it. Yeah. They need to sit still. and it I think can move into shame very quickly. Part of that I think is cultural. We set up these ridiculous expectations for parents. Like you have to be a good mom. What are you if you're not a good parent? And good might be code language for perfect. yes. Because it's not just good enough. It's not. No. You have to you have to know everything immediately. You have to make sure that your child never has a strong emotion or tells you no or doesn't follow the direction the first time. That's what we set up in our society. That's what we look for. And that's not fair and we do. feel everything more deeply with our kids. If you're a parent, you already know this. Like there is nothing compared to being in relationship with your own child. I I'm in the field. I can I can work with any child other than my own. Yeah. Because the emotions just get stirred up like no other and you feel wholly responsible for this person and how they are in the world and it becomes very quickly a space of shame, a space of guilt, a space of sadness, a space of grief, a space of overwhelm. And it doesn't have to feel that way all the time, despite what society tells us. We have lots and lots of ways to Look to understand what this little one is telling us through their behavior, especially in the infant and other years when really the language is so limited, everything they're doing is communicating. It's just not in a language that we were taught. So they are flailing because they don't want to get into their car seat, as an example. What are they telling you? I'm not done here. I don't want to be restrained. You're not gonna necessarily like any of the answers that they give you, but it's so much more helpful to understand what they're expressing and being able to validate it's so hard to leave the playground. It was so much fun here. I know you don't want to get into your car seat. And then we shift towards how do we get them? How do we get them to to work with you instead of against you to get into the car seat? Yes, it's not personal, it's not that they really do hate us even if they say so. wow. Just so special. I'm just ruminating on a lot of what you're saying here. for families, parents who are thinking this might be really helpful with an upcoming stage or I'm in the throes and I'm drowning. Do parents and families need somebody to contact you and say this family should meet with you? can they get a referral? Can they self-refer, meaning contact you directly? Is there opportunity in every direction there or is there yes, opportunity in every direction? I can take referrals from other practitioners if needed, but if you wanna get to me You can get to me immediately. Yeah, really special. the theme of the podcast, Sarah, which I think we talked about briefly beforehand, is the ideas and people that make Lancaster County a healthier place to be. And as a place I'm not from Lancaster, I think that Lancaster is one of the most special places in the world for families. I think we regard parenting and families and children in such high regard compared to a lot of other places I've lived that are more metropolitan. busy and professional centered. so I think this topic is just so so so important for Central PA at large. But what other sort of thoughts that we haven't covered or just the idea of keeping people healthy in this mist that we so highly value parenting, but that does not mean that it's easier. I will so other words of wisdom to end on, any parting thoughts you have for us. Yeah, I think what I love about the opportunity to to be with you today is really connecting the medical side of parenting. The medical side of raising children, with the emotional side, with the messy side that is everything that's not medical, and knowing that they're completely interrelated. And that if we want to set our kids up for success, we really need to have providers that think about both, that can connect us to all of the resources that will help us raise our children in. the best way possible in the way that we want and feel empowered to give our children the lives that we want them to have. Yeah. So we can we can raise our kids consistent with our vision of being the parents we would like to be. We can. That's exciting. I don't think that's something I heard much in my early parenting journey. It was more go, go, do the thing, don't do the thing, don't let them do the thing. Right. And I think again, yeah, people don't mean to lead us astray, but it's just a really loaded season. It is. It is. You are going to if you ask the question, you will get six answers and none of them will match. And you still won't know what to do. And you still won't know what to do. And none of them will be right for your family or your child. Right, exactly. Well, Sarah, thank you for spending your time with us today. My pleasure. If you know any families that are in the throws or about to be in the throws, Sarah may be the perfect person to help listen and piece together what might be the next possible best steps for you and your family. We're so excited that she could come here. Thank you for being on Lou's Musings and thank you guys for tuning in. Pass this episode on to a friend who we're sure will benefit from all of the fun things we got to talk about today. Thank you guys. Thank you so much for spending time with us today. We are grateful for you and hope this episode got you thinking. It's important to remember that the content provided in Lou's Musings is not considered medical advice and no doctor-patient relationship is ever formed by listening. Additionally, the ideas and opinions represented on the show and its guests are not endorsed by Lose Medicine exclusively, and we welcome thinkers of all kinds to engage with us and our audience so that we can all learn together. Once more, Thank you so much for joining Louise Musings. Feel free to share with a friend. And until next time, we are wishing you the best in health, always.