Latest / Monero Talk / Spreading Agorism with Agorist Nexus | EPI 340

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Spreading Agorism with Agorist Nexus | EPI 340 · Monero Talk

• Doug Alrighty, I'm still tweeting over here trying to get the word out. Live now with Agorist Network, like and share, let's grow the opt-out community by post. Brandon, what's going on, man? Brandon Hey man, yeah, what's going on? Just thought I could be here, for sure. Doug Yeah, thanks for joining me. I appreciate it. I've, um, I've only come across you somewhat recently. And I'm like, Agorist network. I'm like, this, how do I not know about this? This is, you know, this is, uh, we're, we're into these things. I'm sure these, I'm sure, I'm sure he's into Monero. And so I started to checking you out. I see you're, you're associated with Sal, Sal the Agarist. Awesome, dude. I had him on, uh, I guess a couple of years ago now. I think I've had him on a couple of times. Uh, I was trying to get him to come to Monero topia. He, he introduced me to like Conklin. I think it was through him. He was one of the first guys I like that really kind of gave me the lowdown. Uh, I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit. Um, me myself, I, I consider my, yeah, I think I'm, I'm an Agarist. Uh, I don't think, well, I'm not as extreme as you guys. We'll get into that as well. Right. I still, I'm still tethered to the, uh, the stan- the standard state system, whether, whether I like it or not. Uh, I've opted out in many ways more than most with regards to how I live, uh, in terms of buying and buying things and the way I use my money, um, primarily because I'm a Monero guy. Um, unfortunately I lost a large chunk of that in the, in the boating accident that all us Monero users eventually have. Uh, but I do try to live day to day off of Monero. I earn Monero. I spend Monero. So an Agarist in that sense, but perhaps not in the sense of saying, uh, or living the life of, um, not interfacing with the political system. I haven't, I haven't gone that far. I, I love the, I love the concept that I align with it philosophically, 100%. Uh, I'm hoping, I'm hoping we get there. And I understand the Agarist take is, well, that's how we get there is we've just stopped interfacing with the current system. Um, but yeah, beyond, beyond that, uh, I don't, I don't know, I don't know if you would consider me an Agarist. So, so we'll get into that. Um, but yeah, I just want to lay the groundwork for, for people that are tuning in and, and what the show is going to be all about. Uh, we have 40 live viewers right now, guys, uh, like and share retweet. Let's get a bunch of people in here. This is going to be a great conversation. Brandon is going to teach me about Agorism. Um, you know, uh, help me improve my Agorist ways. And, uh, we're going to get to learn about him, what he's doing, why he's so passionate about Agorism. Why is he, why is he devoting his, his life to it to this? Just like, why am I devoting my life to Monero? I'm very curious as to why he's devoting himself to this and where that comes from. So, Brandon, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself, tell us what you're all about and yeah, why, why you run, why you've started the Agarist network. Brandon Yeah, I started, uh, man, uh, good questions. Um, I started a course nexus because I didn't really see any, um, anything online where, you know, there, there was like a, a network of, of a course, not nothing like relevant anyways. Um, so that's pretty much why I started it. Uh, I, I was very lucky to have, uh, lots of businesses to, you know, get excited, start the list. Uh, I was, uh, I was super happy that I got, um, I, I had wanted to set up like some kind of, uh, like a gorist multimedia company, and, um, I was super excited to have Wendy McElroy and, uh, Stormdell Gora, uh, join me. And, uh, Wendy McElroy, if you don't know who she is, um, people should definitely check her out. She's, uh, just a legend. She was like drinking buddies with, um, Samuel Edward Conklin III. And, uh, she was like mentored by, by both him and, and Rothbard. So she's, she's a legend in and of herself. And, um, she really, she really legitimized us for sure. So, uh, I can't thank her enough. It's been an hour to be able to work with her and just, you know, a whole bunch of a gorse, like if you go to. Doug or have you interviewed on your podcast? Brandon No, no, I haven't. We just love to Yeah, yeah. I don't really think she does much interviews now. Okay, but but yeah, she, she, she started like the volunteers, the modern volunteers to movement. There was the original volunteers to movement was in the 1800s. And she, she kind of grew the modern founded the modern volunteers to movement. And when was it? Yeah, I mean, she's, she's been, she's just been amazing. Great writer. I she actually just wrote a book that we published recently on her friend, Secretary or Samuel Edward Compton, the third. It's like her, it's like a biography or more still like her memoir of him. And it's, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just it's really good. I've been getting nothing but great reviews. There's a lot of really cool, cool things in there that get to like the heart of, of Agora's and just the roots of it. And so, yeah. Doug For those who don't, you know, there might be some people in my audience who aren't completely aware yet, like, how would you define Agriism? Yeah, I don't, would you define me as an Agriist? I don't think so, right? I'm not, I'm not, I think you need to be at the point where you're literally saying you're not participating in the political system of the state you live in, right? But go ahead and give us the definition and really what the thesis is of Agriism, the hypothesis and ultimately what the principles are. Brandon Yeah, so I think whether you call yourself an agorist or not, that's pretty much up to the individual. I think anyone who—Concan says in New Libertarian Manifesto is that an agorist is just simply somebody who spreads agorism and or trades outside the state or does anything outside the state. So, when people say, you know, I don't know if I'm an agorist or not, they make it like, you know, it's just kind of like this complicated thing that people believe and it's really just easy. Like, you know, if you believe in agorism or spread it in any way, shape or form, you're an agorist. You know, you don't have to be like doing anything. Doug I live and breathe the idea of opting out and living off of each other, peer with cash. That's my passion, that's my day-to-day, that's where I get my kicks, that's what gets me out of bed in the morning. Yeah, so I was doing that. Brandon I definitely consider you an aborist for sure. I appreciate all the work that you do for Monero and Pure Cash. But yeah, I don't know what the other questions were. Oh yeah, how would you define aborism? Doug Yeah, give us the principles, right? Because I think this is good for Monero people, right? We're constantly trying to, let's be real, right? We're out there advocating for agorism. We're out there advocating for using digital cash. It's important that we understand why, I believe, and I'm sure you agree, that morally we're on the right side. We're pushing society in the right direction. We're maximizing people's individual liberty. We're trying to preserve their liberty as we transition to digital age. It's important that as we do this, that we have strong principles and reasoning as to why we think that's the case, right? So how would you define the principles of agorism? Brandon Yeah, so like my definition of agorism super simple, it's basically, you know, I'm just trying to, to basically trade freely. That's pretty much it. Now the, the like, definition, the like, pure definition of it would be like, you know, it's a libertarian philosophy that advocates for, you know, all transactions outside the state to create a voluntary society, which has aspects of a peaceful revolution. And, yeah, and so, you know, I think that's, that's pretty important in and of itself, just wanting to trade freely with one another. I think, I think that's really. Doug Why, though? Why would you say that's important? Why should people have the right to live in a reality where they could freely trade with other individuals? Why should society be okay with that? Yeah, it's an obvious question. I know it's an obvious question. But, yeah, let's put it out there. Brandon You're you're giving the new boss here. So forget Doug you know why will you talk about it on your channel all the time right so you have you know so there might be some people here here listening today that aren't as like familiar with the philosophy itself so go go for it Brandon Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so basically, we just want to trade freely. And that's pretty much it. We want to try to create a voluntary society. And, and that's, that's very important to us. So pretty much every interaction that we want is, is, you know, voluntary. And so whether that's trading, I mean, pretty much that's how I live on a day to day, day basis anyways. You know, I never want to be forced or to force anyone to do anything that they don't want to do. And so, you know, I think that's, that's really the very, the moral, the basis of it. I think what separates agorism from other anarchist trains of thought or ideologies is that agorism is based on consistency. And consistency is super important. Like if it's what I'm getting Doug Yeah, there you go. Okay. Yeah, it can riff riff on this riff on this go for it. So if Brandon So, you know, why is consistency so important? It's like, you know, what happened to the Tea Party movement in the early, you know, during the Obama years, right? When Trump got elected, they were nowhere to be found. Or what happened to the anti-war Democrats, you know, before Obama, you know, and when Obama got elected, where did all the anti-war Democrats go? This is why consistency is so important is because in 20 or 30 years, you don't know where your movement is going to be. You don't know where your philosophy is going to be in 20 or 30 years. But with agorism, since the very core of it is consistency, you know, you're always going to know where it stands. And consistency is so important that, you know, to paraphrase Samuel Edward Conklin III, to paraphrase him probably poorly, he says in New Libertarian Manifesto that even if I'm wrong, that agorism is still consistent. So even if any of the pages that he wrote were not consistent in New Libertarian Manifesto or whatever he wrote about agorism, that agorism is still consistent. And so the reformation of the consistency would be agorism and not the error, if any, that he wrote. So yeah, I think that's a huge difference between agorism and other trains of thought. And that's really why I went from more of like an anarcho-capitalist to agorism was because agorism had the strategy and the consistency that I was really looking for that some of the other anarchist train of thoughts didn't have. Speaker 2 Do you love coffee and Monero as much as we do? Consider making gratuitous.org your daily cup. Pay with Monero for premium fresh beans and if you like what you taste, send a digital cash tip directly to the farmers that made it possible. Proceeds help us grow this channel, gratuitous and Monero. Doug Awesome, man. So what would your advice be to people, like, practically speaking, how can somebody live this life dedicated to Agra? Yeah. Brandon Uh, it really, um, you know, start by spreading it, you know, can't really go like full gourished overnight. Like, you know, um, I'm going to just like go off into the woods and you know, completely rid myself of the state overnight, but you kind of have to do that. You know, if you want to go that route, um, you kind of have to do that in, and phases and steps and slowly build your way towards that. Um, but, uh, but yeah, really just spreading a gourism is, is really, uh, you know, the main key, um, I think there's many, many ways to do that. I think a lot of people do it through cryptocurrency and they don't even realize it, a lot of people do it through, um, a lot of different methods. And, uh, and I, you know, I kinda going off on a tangent here, but, um, but yeah, you can't, you can't do it overnight. You've got to, you got to do it slowly. Doug What are some tools that you use? And then I'll talk about XMR Bazaar a little bit. Do you use XMR Bazaar? I'm excited actually because I just opened this package. I just got a delivery. I forgot I had just recently ordered something. I ordered soaps. Nice. They give peyushinero. And they're like, I haven't used them yet. I'm just opening them now, but I'm gonna tell you already, these are the most amazing soaps I've ever owned. Like I've ever had in my dark. This woman apparently makes them handmade. She's like a registered nurse that got passionate about just trying to create the healthiest form of soap. So it's tallow-based. And then she puts all organic. Amazing. I can almost smell it. I can almost smell it from here. Purchase with Monero. I'm gonna bring it up on the stage right now. And so she's actually related to the guy that sells maple syrup for Monero, maple trade. So I think this is his sister. And yeah, oh, he hasn't put up his maple syrup yet. Okay, you gotta get him to do that. But yeah, so what do you think of XMR Bazaar? And what are some other tools? Like practically speaking, how would you advise somebody? What are some tools they can use to actually live this life? Brandon yeah uh yeah use me there i'm i wish i i wish i wish i could i wish i could use xmr bizarre where i'm at i don't even have a shipping address so oh wow Doug Well, I'm sure you could get packages delivered to you locally somewhere and then you go pick them up, no? Yeah, I'm sure- Brandon still trying to actually trying to figure that part out too but but eventually I'll get there do you Doug also also works locally too right the idea is we want to work locally too like it should be that you know your heart hiring your carpenter on next you're finding your carpenter next to me all right and he just happens to live you know 50 miles away from you or something yeah that'd be awesome do you live in Mexico yourself down here no I'm in New York man I'm in New York okay yeah hopefully go ahead we do Monero topia down there we've done it twice and probably we'll do it again in Mexico City but yeah I'm up in New York cool yeah Brandon Where are you? Yeah, I'm in Guerrero. So I'm close to like Acapulco. Oh, OK. I've got it. I've been. I've got a little mango farm down here. You've been in Acapulco, I'm guessing. Yes. Doug Are you going? It's like now, right? Brandon No, yeah, I'm yeah, I didn't go to this one. I went to 2018 and 2019 are the two that I went to, which are which were great. Yeah, sure. We got to. Doug you have Monero topia man that's yeah I'd love to come to Monero topia you gotta do that is a right yeah that's an easy trip for you no we're gonna do it actually a year from now is gonna be the next one so basically okay I'd be worried so you got you got some time Speaker 4 Cool, yeah, man. I'd love to come down, you know, tool values, real simple, kick wallet. Brandon But Monero is probably one of my favorite ones. I think people don't understand the importance of privacy in and of itself. Even my gold coins are more private than Bitcoin is, because I didn't give gold coins to somebody and nobody would know that I gave them that. And so the importance of privacy is just going to be paramount, especially in the future with CBDC and all these laws that government wants to pass and surveils with. Yeah, I couldn't have read any more. Doug I think that is the value proposition of crypto, right? That's its original purpose. That's the way it'll be most disruptive if it's used as untraceable digital cash. I mean, do you think, do you view Monero as the best tool for that? Or are there other cryptos that you use for this purpose? Yeah, right now, Brandon I think right now I think Monero is probably probably the best one to use um you know I don't really think there's like a perfect a perfect uh privacy coin right now I wish there was but uh but each one kind of has subtle subtleties and I think um uh you know but I definitely think that Monero is probably the best one ring signatures if you think of ring signatures is like just like a big clam game right and so I guess the uh people are kind of worried about like the network being spammed and stuff like that and being able to maybe reveal transactions that way I don't know what your thoughts on that are but um but I think I think Monero is actually uh developing uh you know I think they're aware of that and they're developing they're trying to develop you know ways that protect the the networks Doug Full chain membership proofs are being developed and will be implemented soon and those will essentially replace ring signatures. So any attack factors that were possible against Monero with regards to its privacy are pretty much eliminated on the protocol level. There are some, at that point, it's just about protecting it on maybe more of a network level. So obfuscating just even the use that when you're using Monero, Monero does a really good job on that, probably better than any other crypto, but that's probably where he's going to look to improve as well. But yeah, I mean, in terms of actual privacy on chain, once full chain membership proofs is implemented, it's really game over, man. Yeah, there's really not many more major attack vectors. Obviously, if they're pinpointed trying to figure out what a single person is doing and they have the resources of a state, it's like cash at that point. That's what people need to realize. It's never going to be better than cash. So even cash, there's video cameras. They can see if people are using it at certain places, but it will effectively function as well as cash at that point digitally, which is really exciting. And I think it's already the best compared to others, just mostly because it also has the network effect. And it's been really honest in what its shortcomings are. And so people are aware of how to... It had never really oversold itself. And it's really decentralized in that there's no corporation that's determining where the project goes. It's a very open source and there's a strong culture and unified belief around building it to be untraceable with cash. Speaker 4 Yeah. Brandon Yeah, I was really excited with RandomX, making sure that it's decentralized and that people can run it. Now, that was my huge thing with Bitcoin was that people were, during the block size war, it was like, man, we can't even raise this thing. We can't even raise the block size just a little bit, not even more than a floppy disk. I never understood that. And if you lose a bunch of Raspberry Pis or whatever, that's fine. But I think the mass adoption that was lost from the block size war was more devastating than keeping obsolete node runners in 10 years. Doug Yeah. Bitcoin never got digital cash going, right? Actually, Bazaar was an ode to open Bazaar, right? And open Bazaar never worked, really, because Bitcoin was failing at that time as digital cash. It wasn't the right tool for the job. And obviously, Bitcoin Cash evolved from it, and it has the attributes that are more cash-like. And I would say Monero does it even better in terms of being on-chain cash. And I'm sure you know, write the story with Roger Ver and what really happened. We don't know, but it appears, and I assume you agree, that Bitcoin effectively got co-opted, right? That it was meant to be cash, and the project got co-opted and steered away from being cash. Brandon Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And they definitely did that on purpose, in my opinion. When you see something as powerful as that and you can't stop it, you really don't have any other option but to join it at that point and try to change it from the inside. And I think they've actually done a pretty good job of that. So keeping it small, getting rid of adoption, because I think even Steam, the game platform, Steam was accepting it, Microsoft. I think Overstock.com, all these other huge retailers were accepting it and they really got rid of that. So now, whether or not, I think right now there's this discussion of whether or not they'll be able to raise the amount from $21 million. I don't know if they'll be able to get a bunch of node runners to do it, but who knows at that point. What are your thoughts on that? Doug Oh, if they'll, if they'll add like a tail emission or something. Brandon Well, either that or they'll just somehow be able to raise the maximum. I know I think a bunch of people are kind of debating on whether or not that's possible. With propaganda, I think almost anything's possible. If you can get all the node runners or the majority of them to agree to raise the amount, I think that's definitely a possibility. Doug Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's an argument for you know, that I like to make that the Bitcoin Monero like really has a more predictable Emission schedule arguably than Bitcoin because Monero didn't kick the can down the road It added tail emission realizing that for this you're always gonna want to rewar Yeah, yeah for this system to actually work right like you can't have a perpetual motion machine You you know, there needs to be something that that's kind of you know fueling the incentive for the network to be secured Otherwise, we'll lose its decentralization that you need you need this tail emission for this to effectively work I think Monero did a really good job at realizing that and making that part of its architecture and in a way where It will scale as more people use it so though that they will never be like debated again It's like built into the protocol And I think Bitcoin There's a question mark as to whether or not they may need to add a tail emission one day, which ironically makes it less secure in terms of Being able to trust and know and predict how many Bitcoin there will be in the future And so that's a big part of when we say sound money, right? That is like you don't get more sound than that knowing what the supply will be you could say Oh, but there'll be more Monero, but that's not really what the value proposition was. It was creating a mission schedule that's known and Proven and that won't change the amount doesn't really matter right whether it's 21 million or 210 million it's knowing that there's a predictable Supply schedule that won't be changed by a group of people Right, and so I think Bitcoin is gonna have to struggle with that. Obviously the argument is They'll be able to you know, secure the network just off of transaction fees But I don't know people like Peter Todd don't think that's the case and some of the smartest people I know in Monero Arctic mind it's actually why he got involved in Monero early He's one of the core but part of the core team And he was more interested in Monero from the early days because of its on-chain scalability not even the privacy aspects Obviously he likes those features as well But he always saw Monero's bitcoins flaw being its inability to scale on chain More so than its fungibility flaw, which I I'm always surprised by but he's right Brandon Yeah, you don't even have that with gold. You don't even know what the supply is with gold. So, Monero is superior to gold and silver in that aspect because you know exactly how much there is and you know exactly how much there will be in the future. Yeah, Monero is good that I really love. You can always mine gold. People will bring gold down from asteroids and stuff and you don't really know how much gold there will be in this regulation. But with Monero, you always know. Doug Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right, right, right. It's just the restraint is like the amount of energy, right? And like, it's, yeah, it's, it's going to be that telemission will be, will be fixed. I mean, it is interesting, right? Because the meme, the meme is so strong in Bitcoin that it's 21 million only, right? And that's like one of the things that noobs just can't wrap their head around. Oh, Monero is infinite. And Bitcoin is capped. But without like, once again, without realizing, no, it's not about whether it's 21 million, or, you know, 210 million, actually, there's currently less Monero now than there are Bitcoin. But even more importantly, it's that the emission schedule is more known and predictable. And like, that's just a harder thing to explain, like, you get it, I get it. But it's more abstract. And it's harder for people to comprehend that versus just saying, Oh, there's only 21 million and it's capped, right? So we have to do a better job at like conveying that meme, right? Like you were explaining, like, maybe with like with gold, right? Like we need to convey that concept better in Monero land so that it becomes known in generally in crypto, that, you know, yeah, you could talk all day about having only 21 million. But the real what really makes something digital gold is knowing that its supply is predictable. Transcribed by https://otter.ai Brandon Yeah, that was a debate. It was me and I believe it was untraceable. We were debating this guy about the cap of 21 million. And that's exactly what I told him. I said, never do a debate, right? Yeah, it will never go away probably. But yeah, that's exactly what we were saying was, you know, or what I was saying on my end was, you know, gold and silver, they've been used as money for years and years. But you don't really know the supply cap of them, you know, they're still gold and silver, you know, on Mars and asteroids and stuff. So you don't really know. But people. Yeah, there could be a book. Doug Right. Yeah, we could hit an asteroid, you know, whatever start mining asteroids and we'll just have like it will you know A thousand acts in terms of the amount amount of about leading out access to yeah Brandon Yeah, and they've been used as money for thousands of years. So in my eyes, Monero's superior to gold and silver in that aspect because we know exactly how much and it's superior to Bitcoin because we know exactly where it's going and that the network will be incentivized. So yeah, I definitely say Monero is my favorite. Now, in terms of tokenization, I've kind of been looking at XANO, but the only thing I don't really like about XANO is that there seems to be a lot of them. Who'd have been a lot of them? A lot of people. In the pre-mine, for sure. There seems to be a lot of them pre-mined, yeah. The tokenization aspect is really cool. Doug Yeah. Whether it's XANO or something else, Monero is focused on being digital cash. That's its core value proposition. And thankfully, that's what the unified culture is there. So it doesn't want to sacrifice that for anything. So I think that leaves open another crypto to provide these other utilities, smart contracts, things like that. Monero, it's going to take time before smart contracts are done it away. They're done on Ethereum on Monero or Solana or something. That's probably going to happen on second layers on top of Monero. And those things could happen. But I think that gives room for another crypto that can basically be a private Ethereum. So interested in that, interested in an algorithmic private stablecoin. That's why I was interested in Haven at one point to see if, oh, could this work? And we had them participating in Monero-Topia. We have XANO participate in Monero-Topia. We've had some haters recently. It's really just to wow narrow people that were jealous that XANO pumped. But yeah, Monero-Topia, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but yeah, it's much more than just Monero. It's a privacy tech conference. We let what we consider honest projects come and present whether or not we think they're good technologies or not. We let them talk about them out in the open and let people decide for themselves. And so yeah, I agree. XANO is an interesting one. DarkFi, but it hasn't launched yet. It's interesting. Tari, I don't know, man. They've been talking. They've been like vaporware for so long. So hard to say anything what's going to happen with them because they don't exist yet. So XANO, it actually does exist. And I'm also interested in the fact that it's created by literally the part of the Satoshi Nakamoto of Monero, part of that team. It wasn't one person. There was Nicholas Van Sabrehagen and there was Andre who did the implementation. So there are those that don't like XANO because Andre's evolved because they have him labeled as like this ultimate scammer. But that's just not my impression of the guy at all. I met him numerous times out of Monero Topia. Whether you agree with his tech or his pre-mine, he seems to be in it. He's just a nerd. He's trying to build XANO and he built Monero and so to not have respect for that individual is just absurd, I think, if you're in Monero. So that's like my high-level XANO take. Brandon Yeah, I saw actually I was watching your because I had questions about Zanno and I think you did a you did an interview with With him and untraceable, which was pretty good. Actually, I definitely yeah Doug You know, we let Unstoppable come on and, you know, we're all about that, right? And at Monerotopia itself, which was, I was surprised that there was like this, like, kind of even realization, right? Like, because they were on so much on Monerotopia, they had been asked the hard questions before at the conference. It's like we all thought we were beyond that. But what happened was the coin started, you know, it got a lot of attention. So out of jealousy, people started, the Wow Narrow people, the Wow Narrow guy really started attacking it. And it was really because he was just pissed that he saw him pumping. Like his presentation at the conference was like, basically why he thought Zanna was a scam coin. And, you know, which is fine, and we let the information be out, go out there. But yeah, so it's, you know, people have their bags, you know, it's, I think, I think that's fine, right? As long as I'm interested in the people that are honestly talking about these technologies, whether, you know, whatever the reasons are for liking them, disliking them, I'm a maxi with Monero in that I think it's the best form of digital cash, and it's got that use case one. And that's the thing I'm most interested in crypto. But I think these other, we're going to need these other utilities too. Brandon Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, well said. I can't agree more. I mean, yeah, whether that was Anno or something. Doug Anything else? I do not know. Brandon Yeah, I'm a freedom maximalist. So basically, I want a gorse to be able to trade freely. And whether that's Monero or whatever other coin out there, I just want people to be able to voluntarily trade. And your conference, I know your conference has to be pretty good because every year I get asked if I'm going to it, they're like, hey, I know you're in Mexico, are you going to that? And Doug You got to come and bring your people and it's free for locals, right? It's free. It's free for people that live in Mexico that are locals that can't that like, you know They whatever can't afford it. It's it's basically it's free We have a locals ticket for people that want to get into the dome, right? For those that are kids or is it you a coming soy, Mexico? Yeah that are coming from like the US we asked them to buy a ticket We even asked them by VIP ticket because that helps fund the conference and then basically we could make it free for the locals So anybody can come in. It's just a big marketplace. It's an Agora But for people that want to go into the dome and like be at the main stage They have to buy a ticket so whether it's all and the local ticket is very cheap So but even if you just want to come in and you know We we try to make as open as possible then we have we have the talks playing on big screens outside of the dome Anyway, but yeah, please get the word out locally because to people that are interested in this, right? We don't want a bunch of like they're showing up to just hang out and I had a conference We want people that are interested in agorism. Anyway, that's interested. It's free. Please. Please. Please. Please do come So yeah, actually, let me let me quickly let me quickly run an ad here I'm gonna go ahead and do that if you don't mind Yeah Go ahead this up be a good time for doing that because we just announced the conference get this going All right, go ahead and share the screen running out here we go Speaker 5 We're in Mexico, we're on top of a revenue rally, and it's interesting to see digital, and it's interesting to see the benefits of the world of Mexico, the digital world. We're on top of it, we're observing, we're visiting, and it appears to be in the streets, in the streets, in the cities, in the digital world, when we don't have a good time. We're on top of it, it's interesting to see the benefits of the world of Mexico, and it's interesting to see the benefits of the world of Mexico, and it's interesting to see. Thank you. Speaker 6 Thanks for watching, and I'll see you next time. Speaker 7 Monerotopia is one of the two annual Monero conferences that's happening in Mexico City. Mexico City is amazing. It's the perfect place for a cryptocurrency conference. There's 20 million people here and they're open to new ideas. We have merchants here who are accepting Monero and it's vibrant, it's energetic, it's global, and it's a great place to be. So come on out to Monerotopia if you haven't been. It's worth the trip. Speaker 8 I think when we come to events like this here at Monerotopia, we get to share, exchange ideas, learn new things, and we get to take those back home and share them with our local communities. And that allows the cause of liberty, of financial freedom, of decentralized ecosystems, parallel societies. These concepts get to spread across the planet like wildfire in a very, very beautiful way, and it's because of events like Monerotopia. Speaker 9 Monero topia 2024 is awesome. This has been a great time because for me I care about solutions Trying to make a better world and I think private cryptos like Monero are part of that and it's just cool to be around people who are interested in how Monero can provide privacy and freedom and how we can grow that here in Mexico where I live but also all around the world And yeah, I think it's just a great place to come connect with like-minded people and experience some really cool moments Brandon0 Come on then, come on. Elegento, I think it's a very multivore that I think it's the best person that comparts the philosophy of the world, the philosophy of the privacy of the world. It's a very multivore because that's when you're the only person and you have to work hard for the cancer. It's a very liberal future. So I think it's the best thing I've ever seen in a multivore. Brandon1 Yeah, Monetopia in this place is really, it's a really cool venue. It's really awesome place. Mexico is actually a great choice. It's very easy for a lot of people to come here. A lot of people aren't able to get into the US due to restrictions and visa requirements. So it makes a lot of sense to do it here. It's a lot more, I guess, free in the sense of there's less government surveillance, there's less pushback from government for certain things. And I'm excited to see crypto spread out into more of these countries that recognize the need for it even more so than countries like the United States. So really great to be here and it's been awesome. Brandon2 This is my first Monero topia and it was an absolutely phenomenal experience because it kind of blends the greatest thinking. A lot of the talks are like very technical talks about the cutting edge of privacy and privacy coins, Monero and others. But then it's also in this beautiful open air market where people are able to buy goods and services using privacy coins. And so it's kind of living, you know, privacy coins in action. So it's a it's a phenomenal event. And it's been a great opportunity to meet people from all over the world with a similar mindset. Speaker 4 No. Speaker 6 This ecosystem and this conference overall is absolutely amazing for getting people to understand exactly what we're doing and to understand that there are ways for us to achieve freedom in our lifetime and that's largely through leveraging technology, leveraging parallel finance and leveraging freedom tech to contribute that. So yeah, I'm really hopeful and optimistic about the future. I think more and more people are getting involved in various initiatives and I think it's a really beautiful thing, so really happy to be here. Speaker 4 Well, I don't know. Doug Not that you know of an Aerotopia. You get the lowdown now. Right? For sure. Brandon Yeah, people ask me, hey, you going to this? You going and, oh, okay. Doug Yeah, next year, man, you should definitely come and get the word out, like I said, to other people. If anybody you know that wants to come and run a stand, wants to come and sell stuff for Monero, we'll find a place for them. We have a bunch of... We round up a bunch of vendors that do it and now we have a little network to work out of. But anybody that you know that's in Mexico that would want to come sell things for Monero, let us know. You can tell them to email us, monerotopiaprotommail.com. I'm sure you might know a person or two. Brandon I might bring some of my mangoes up there coming in next year around this time. I'd love to sell mangoes from Monero for sure. That sounds nice. You got a little mangoes from Monero. You got a little orchard. Doug You grow, you grow, you got a little farm. What do you got going on over there? Brandon Yeah, I've got a little tree farm down here. Mostly mangoes, I got some other stuff too. Avocados and some coconuts and stuff. But yeah, yeah, just trying to grow my own food. That's a that's a process that I think will be very important in the future for sure. You know, anything that's anti-political is super important to me. And I can't emphasize this enough. That's another reason why I like why I like, you know, I'm an Aritopian, what you're doing down there. But because every political solution, you know, a lot of people are looking at like what what the Trump administration is doing, you know, that they're, you know, they're giving us more freedom, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, I think that some of the good things they're doing is good, you know, they're kind of cleaning up, you know, government's trying to clean up its own act. So, you know, the problems that they created, they're trying to create solutions for them. And, you know, that's good and fine. But the thing is, is that any any political solution that you have today is, you know, anything that you achieve politically can be, how do I want to put this, nullified, really, due to any crisis, you know, or, you know, any crisis or the next president can come along. You know, and it's basically in the ministry. Doug frustration, right? Brandon Yeah, it can screw anything that you achieved. It can screw up anything that you achieved. What do they say? All we need is a good crisis or something. And yeah, you really saw that with COVID or even 9-11. People really lost a lot of freedom and anything that was achieved before then was pretty much lost. So I don't realize you... Doug I do think it's, you know, we got to take advantage during these times, though, when they're temporarily giving us an inch, we have to take it, right? We have to make sure we take a mile. Right. Yeah, take a mile, exactly. And then, obviously, they'll be their event, and they'll try to ratchet things back. But you must even be impressed with, like, some of the things he's been doing, right? Whether you think, you know, he may try to, whatever, things will get ramped back one way or the other when the next administration comes in. He's done some very anarchist-minded things, at least libertarian-minded things, gone further than some would think, right? In terms of, like, actually starting to eliminate the department, the Fed. Brandon Yeah, he hasn't, he hasn't done it. I want to see it for sure. You know, I'm not going to complain if it happens. He's right. I don't think he hasn't done any of it yet, though. But, but yeah, I'd love to see him get rid of the Department of Education. I'll arrest would be huge, but I, I have, I have my doubts. Doug Hey, that would be I don't think that's gonna happen. I don't know as then the latest you hear people talking about that He wants to back the dollar with God enough That's just a rumor gold buggers were spreading but like move to the gold standard Which are just be hilarious cuz all the all the BTC maxis would just be so pissed off Which is I was so ironic right like I thought you guys wanted sound money So we're gonna have it now, but oh you want it to be your your your little collectible. Oh, okay Yeah, you want to talk yours. Yeah, I kind of want it to happen just to piss off all the BTC maxis I don't think we I don't think it would happen So we're saying that it's not like possible like the US couldn't like physically move back to a gold standard Like it wouldn't be possible to do I don't I don't know why that wouldn't be possible I get the the market cap of gold would obviously have to just go up a great amount because Brandon Yeah, it would almost be easier just just creating a new a new currency. That would be like more feasible. But but yeah, Doug Totally. Would you be in support of the US moving back to a gold standard? Brandon uh yeah why not i'd be kind of scared i would kill you you know it's not gonna they would talk about it being digitally that you know they'd probably say oh yeah it's gonna be digital and it would be like this this um Doug Yeah, there's that. There's the CBDC. Well, they say they're not doing a CBDC, but they're going to do it in other ways, whether it's through a stablecoin or essentially. But if Trump were to officially make movements to say that the US dollars are now redeemable for gold, we have a gold standard, that would have tremendous implications. And actually, what I do, I think ironically, it would really reveal Bitcoin for what it is, because people would be like, well, wait a minute, what do we need Bitcoin for that? I'm going to store my value in this. But what Bitcoin wouldn't be able to do is act as digital cash, because it's put all its eggs in the basket of being a store of value. And now there'd be potentially a better store of value in town. So then what would its use be at that point? I do still think there'd very much be a use for censorship resistant untraceable digital cash. That would be something like a Monero or these other privacy solutions. Yeah. It would be horrible for Bitcoin, which I just think would just be amazing. Maybe Trump is that much of a troll. He'll be like, what? I thought this is what you guys want. It sounds money, right? Brandon Exactly. Yeah, that would be enjoyable to see it. Doug You know, oh my God, Peter Shea, Peter Schiff would be like. Speaker 7 He'd be like... Doug It would be amazing. He would become he would like start a new religion at that point. You'd be that everybody's here Speaker 9 I told you guys. Doug Imagine I it's that it's not gonna happen here chef now Brandon Yeah, the whole the whole use of like to store value, something can just be a store value on its own. I think that's like, one of the worst arguments, you know, like you don't store anything that's not useful, really, like, I don't store dirty diapers, right, like, because there's no use to like, to like store them. And, and, you know, anything I can do, you know, any, like, almost any cryptocurrency can not only be storable, but, you know, you can actually use it as well. So, like, the more things that you can do with the cryptocurrency, like, the more utility you can get from it, the better. Now, I mean, like, well, will government like, will government maybe like, prop your bags up in terms of BTC, you know, will Donald Trump want to like, you know, use the government to like mine a whole bunch of BTC and maybe like prop your bags up. Yeah, there's definitely possibility and he's talked about that, but making the Bitcoin some kind of like reserve, but, but, but, you know, at the end of the day, like, anything I can do with with Bitcoin right now, I can do with Monero. And I think Monero has actually been kind of a better store. Like, it's, it's definitely been less volatile, you know, you don't see like the huge shifts. It's always like around, for the most part, it's, you know, been around the $200 range. So on. Doug Yeah, absolutely. We want to see it go up in price, and it will as more people use it. I mean, it's just basic economic supply demand. There's a limited supply. So why it's been held down as much as it has. I mean, the simplest- Yeah, people don't like privacy sugar. The simplest it always might be, it's showing what the true value of digital cash actually is at this point, and everything else is blown out of the water and not in touch with the actual reality, right? And at some point, there'll be a reckoning, and the value will converge to the thing that actually is offering the most utility. I do think it's, you know, eventually things will shake out that way. The maker tips, a dollar. For every 0.1 XMR you stack, you gain 10% to your testosterone levels. Hell yeah. I'm in good shape, Sam. Holding Monero gives you balls. Holding Monero gives you balls. You basically have to have balls in the first place to obtain it and start using it. So it's a little bit of, goes both ways, but it's a positive feedback loop once you start using it, especially when you start using it to buy Parmesan. Yeah, man, it's- Brandon So I really love it. If people just want to get the cake wallet and mess around with the cake wallet, they've made Monero so easy to use that there's really no excuse not to check it out and get $5 worth or whatever. But... Doug Is there, I know you said like, um, nobody's using XMR Bazaar yet. There are some postings in Mexico, maybe, maybe get some people to start using it. But is there a, do you have a network of people that they, you know, locally that use Monero? Is there an on the, No, I live. Brandon I live on my ranch, there are very few people around. Doug like the Acapulco crowd right I guess there's like some permanent Brandon Yeah, Acapulco is like an hour and change away from me. So, um, but, uh, yeah, and I'm not really like, I'm just so busy on my farm. Uh, I've got so many fruit trees and stuff here that, that I wish I, I was more like involved in that Acapulco community, but, uh, I guess there's like a. Doug No, it sounds like you're actually living the, it says, you know, that sounds very ideal. How long have you been doing that? Brandon Yeah, I moved down here in June of 2021. So yeah, it's been almost four years. I planted, I bought land and planted. Um, I bought land at the end of 2021 and then I planted in 2022. Doug Tell it to what do you what do you harvest? Brandon Right now I've just got some some nanches, but these trees were I don't know if you know what nanches are, but um, you you might okay They're like they're like yellow cherries almost they've got like a pit and they don't taste like They taste like a mixture between if you mixed a banana a cherry and an orange That's kind of what you get and it's kind of got like a cherry texture. They they're so good. It's one of my favorite Fruits i've got a couple of those big trees and that's that's pretty much everything that's producing right now when I first bought the land in 2021 I planted right before the rainy season in 2022, so So those trees should give me fruit around next year. And uh, so that was a safe roll Doug How much fruit are you producing? Is it enough to sell decent amounts? Brandon Yeah, I should definitely have a surplus to sell for sure by hopefully next year. I wish I was producing more now. Doug If you start shipping it on XMR Bazaar, maybe you get away with that a little bit. Frozen, maybe you gotta turn it into like purees and freeze it like they do with Asai. Brandon Yeah, there's like all kinds of mango, like dried mango. There's like dried mango candies. I can- Oh yeah, those are great. Doug Yeah, there's your ride mango. There you go, man. I'll buy some oh, yeah Get that going get that going on XMR bizarre, but yeah, you could vacuum pack those things that actually that'd be beautiful Oh my god. Yeah, there's a name Brandon like Mexican spices you can throw on there that they throw down here, they're really good. They're the Adolfo mangoes. They're like the gold ones. They're my favorite anyways. The gold ones are the best. Nice. Yeah, I've got about, I think, 40 or 50 of those ones. So hopefully next year, I should start producing a good amount of mango to where I can start shipping out. My hope was that I could ship them to the US, but who knows what will happen in terms of the tariffs and stuff. Doug The dried mangoes is actually a really good idea of us. That's actually a really good idea because it'll be yeah They would you know, but good they preserve longer you could sell them as yeah. Yeah, it'd be better That can actually work very well. I love those by the way And there's this there's a real difference in quality from some versus the others So if you if you had like a you know, it's coming fresh from your farm. I'm sure it would be amazing. Yeah Brandon the mango down here tastes amazing. I don't know if anyone's had like fresh mango from like a tree, but yeah, the taste is just so much better. And we don't use any chemical really down here at all. So people would just, yeah, people just love it. So nice, brother. Doug Tell us, is there any other information you want to get out there? I've, you know, with regards to your movement and how you're trying to grow agorism. Brandon Yeah, I'm doing a meeting on this Tuesday. I'll probably do it every Tuesday. But what I'm trying to accomplish with, and it'll be on X, it'll be in spaces so that, you know, anyone who wants to join can participate and stuff like that. But I want to try to build like agorse leaders. That's what I want to do. And I want to try to build them up. You know, I think like, when I first got involved in the Liberty community, there were a couple people that welcomed me. But, you know, there were some that kind of like, ignored me. And unfortunately, and, you know, I just, I just really want to help out the Liberty community. So, but, but I think that the more welcoming we can be to people who want to participate, the better. And I really want to build, you know, I really want to help the next, whoever it is, you know, the next Sol Mayweather, the next, whichever agorse comes along, you know, that'd be great. So anything we can do to start building those guys up, and to create more agorist leaders who are willing to go out and spread agorism, you know, agorism isn't just like, stuck on one person, you know, like, like, Monero is not like, you know, there's not one person involved in Monero takes a whole entire community to, to grow the ecosystem out. And agorism is really the same way. So, yeah, I'm trying to build agorist leaders. There's all different kinds of ways that I'll be doing that. If, you know, there's really like one particular focus, because everyone's kind of got their own strengths and weaknesses. So I'll try to tailor, tailor some kind of, you know, if people want to get involved, I'll try to tailor some kind of program around them, whether, you know, if they're good at writing articles, they can publish those on the agorist nexus, and I'll just try to, you know, spam it as much as possible to give them attention. Whether it's, you know, meme creation, or, you know, just just anything that anybody can do, even just putting like a agorist in your name. You know, I definitely recommend if, if you do want to be, you know, some kind of, you know, leader in the movement that you, that you check out, New Libertarian Manifesto, an agorist primer, counter economics from the back of all these two stars. Any of the, the agorist books I've got, I go along with. Doug XMR Bazaar, you should sell the, you know, it was just a digital, digital copy, so I'm sure you just have links to them. Brandon Yeah, you know what, I need to sell the new book that Winnie Macro came out with on XMR Bazaar. That's what I really need to do. Doug Do it. Yeah, put it up there. I'll promote it. Get it up there. Sure. Brandon I'm not sure how that work like if somebody were to purchase the PDF would it like automatically go out or. Doug Yeah, we could have you have digital downloads. So go to a link, like you could have it downloaded from, you know, like protonmail like server and like something would have to it would link to that. So they would send them an arrow and it would reveal like a hidden link. And then they could go download the PDF. That's how parts are doing it. Yeah, it's actually quite nice. It's actually it's actually quite smooth. It's a nice way to do digital downloads. And it's, you know, you'll you get the Monero peer to peer. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, let me know if you have any issues setting it up. Brandon When we do that and I'll try we accept the Monero. Okay. Yeah, we accept Monero on a gorse nexus, too Of course, but okay Doug I would hope so. Yeah. Very sweet. Yeah. I'll try to jump on your spaces. That sounds cool. Anything you could do to help us get the word out on XMR Bazaar. I'm always welcome to come and talk about that anywhere if you want me to spread the word. I'm working on a lot of things in Monero, but that's the one I'm most excited about because I think it has the potential of the largest impact. Just building out the circular economy, people using Monero. We're literally super important, dude. Yeah. We're literally growing that option. I'm trying to push as many people and it really is a network effect. It's great. We have different people around that may or may not be accepting it. You can find some services here and there, but really centralizing the list of listings and people that are willing to use Monero, doing that through a marketplace. You really do get a network effect there and to the point where people can start living off of it. So trying to get to that tipping point. So yeah, any opportunities you have for me to come talk about it to your people? Let me know. Brandon Yeah, come down, man. Well, we'll talk more after the show, too, I'm sure. But yeah, that'd be great. And anybody, anybody from your community who wants to join in spaces, and, you know, wants to, to talk about how we can, you know, spread agorism, whether that's through Monero, or, you know, some kind of real money, you know, money's just a super important aspect of agorism, for sure. It's, it's one of the most important, because if you can't, if you can't, you know, we're trying to create a voluntary society. And if you can't coerce others, that's, that's huge. So, yeah. And there's no way I don't see any way that a non privacy coin is going to be able to accomplish that in the future, I think that there's going to have to be some amount of privacy for sure. And probably, you know, I kind of like what Bitcoin Cash has done in terms of like cash fusion. But I, right now, Monero is definitely my favorite because it's, it's private at the protocol level. And then of course, I really like the telemission because you're always going to be able to incentivize the network. So yeah, yeah. Doug man. Awesome, brother. We're speaking to the choir, I think, when we speak to each other. We're on the same page with regards to people opting out and living off each other peer-to-peer with digital cash. Thank you so much, man. I'm sure we'll be in touch. I hope to at least see you at Monerotopia if I don't somehow run into you or somewhere before that. You probably don't come to the States too often because Porkfest, it might be something you'd be interested in. We're going to be doing a big event over there. But yeah, I assume that's probably out of your... Yeah. Love House of Lovers for you. Brandon Yeah, I'll be, I'll be way too busy during pork fest. I wish I could go to pork fest. I've actually never been. I've always wanted to go. But, but yeah, I know Tokyo is definitely in my Doug They live the Agora stream there for sure. All right, man. Yeah, we will leave it at that. Thank you so much. Greatly appreciate you taking the time. Good luck with the mangoes, man. Let me know when those are ready. You know, when I could start buying dried mangoes on XMR Bazaar, I'll be your first customer. 100%. Nice. And give your Twitter handle so people know where to find you. Got it. Yeah, yeah. Brandon It's a GORF. It's a GORF with the letter N on the end of it. So A-G-O-R-I-S-T-N or just search a GORF's nexus. And yeah. All right, brother. Thank you. Doug Thank you so much. Thank you. Speaker 2 Hi, Monero Land. Thank you for joining on this week's episode. We release new episodes every week. You can find and subscribe to our show, YouTube, Odyssey, iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Go to MoneroTalk.Live for a full list of places where you can watch and listen. 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