Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / The Outsiders Who Changed Modern Music [Episode 188]

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The Outsiders Who Changed Modern Music [Episode 188] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

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We're totally booked in rock and roll. I mean gott to leave you.
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You're reading Little Hans says, It's time to rock and roll. Roll up
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to a totally booked Welcome back to Booked on Rock, the podcast for those
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about to read and rock. Find the podcast at booked on rock dot com,
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where you can find every episode of Booked on Rock, along with links
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to your favorite listening platforms, exclusive videos, blogs, links to all of
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the social media sites, and the latest rockbook releases. You can also watch
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every episode in full on video at booked on rock dot com or on our
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YouTube channel at Booked on Rock. Author Ray Robertson as a returning guest.
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Ray was last on the podcast in November to talk about his excellent book All
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the Years Combined The Grateful Dead in fifty shows, which you can listen to
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in episode one sixty three. He's back to talk about another book of his
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Lives of the Poets with Guitars, Thirteen Outsiders Who Change Modern Music. The
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book highlights thirteen portraits of rock and roll blues folk in all countries, most
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inimitable artists, Irreverend and Riotis. Ray explores the Greater or Lesser heat with
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which each musician shaped their genre while offering insight into their often tumultuous lives.
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It includes essays on Gene Clark, Ronnie Lane, the Ramoons, Sister Rosetta,
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Tharp, Towns, Van Zant, Little Richard, Alan Wilson, Willie
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P. Bennett, Graham Parsons, Pound Dog, Taylor, Paul siebel Willis,
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Allen Ramsey, and John Hartford. A playlist of the artists we discussed
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in this episode can be found on the show notes page. Ray, welcome
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back. Good to see again, man, How are you good? Thanks
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for having me back. Oh, it's great to have you back on a
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book that is not exactly one of your newest ones, but one I wanted
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to ask you about because last time you were on, we had you on
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to talk about your book on the Dead, which was grateful. That's fifty
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most important and memorable concerts, which you can get now. You can also
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listen to that episode, which is let's see episode number one sixty three.
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So I encourage people to check that out and get the book. But this
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book lives of the poets with the guitars, thirteen outsiders who changed modern music.
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You're giving us the life story of twelve artists from various genres, while
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also investigating their works of art. That quote often gave that life its guiding
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purpose. Twelve artists highlighted in the book so their Gene Clark, Ronnie Lane,
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the Ramones, Sister, Rosetta Tharp, Towns, Van Zant, Little
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Richard, Allan Wilson, Willie P. Bennett, Graham Parsons, hound Dog,
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Taylor, Paul Sibel, Siebel Willis, Allan Ramsay, and John Hartford.
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Before we talk about just some of the artists in the book, why
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these specific twelve Jesus so long ago I forget. Yeah, I got in
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front of me so we can. Yeah. No, I mean, I
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mean my critteria when writing the book were two full that I had to love
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the music for some reason. It had to be important to me. I
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mean, lots of people when they thought I was writing the book were well,
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here's a crazy ZENI story about some old musician who died of anonymous dope
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feed and this would be a great story. And it's like, yeah,
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but I have to stand behind the music. So pretty much everybody in this
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book has meant something to me, some more than others, but they've all
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meant something to me. And the other thing was that it's not a book
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of biographies. It's like, you know, they're literary criticism. I guess
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in the origin, like Lives of the Poets was a book by a guy
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named Danuel Johnson in the eighteenth century. My Lives of the Poets has guitars
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because it's you know, the contemporary. So I just felt that the life
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people the music had to be important, but the story had to be interesting
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as well, and those two don't always go together. And so I often
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found too that the music the life illustrated the music, and the music illustory
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of the life. But the two because these are these are these are artists,
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and that the two are intertwined. You know, you can't really talk
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about the life without time with the music, vice versa. And I love
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the way you set up each chapter, and I want to read a little
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bit of one of them. I want to start with gene Clark, and
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this is what you write here. Gene Clark was not an intellectual, and
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I mean that in the best possible way, meaning he didn't believe that having
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NPR on in the background while he drank his morning coffee made him any less
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bewildered about the shaky state of the world than the guy trying to tune into
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last night's baseball scores on his car radio while en route to eight hours of
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minimum wage servitude, meaning he didn't let it drop the reporters that, oh,
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yes, he'd read Rimbaud intranslation of course late nineteenth century French symbolist poetry,
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just one of the endlessly arcane literally influences detectable in his musical over if
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one just digs deeply enough Gene Clark, if he could be bothered to read
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it all stuck to comic books and the Bible, and whether with the birds,
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Dillard and Clark or on his own, no one wrote grievy minor key
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masterpiece melodies married to rorshack test tailtale lyrics that even come close. Wow,
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man, that was that was just tiring to listen to. I can't imagine
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writing it. Well, can I borrow your brilliant mind for a few minutes?
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So, yeah, do you have fun writing those leads? I love
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it. The introduction to these chapters, you know, it's it's you know,
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it's been great, with the with the all the years combined, The
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Grateful Dead fifty shows, because I've gotten all sorts of attention, like folks
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like yourself and stuff. But I mean that was that was my fifteenth book.
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You know, I've been doing this for a long time. A lot
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of it is, I guess what we call literature, so it's in that
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literary ghetto. So for the a lot of the appeal for me for a
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long time has just been the doing, the enjoyment. And I love I
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love language. I love words, and the people that I love as music
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writers also love words. So I'm not sort of a I'm not a journalist,
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so which has its strengths and its weaknesses and downside and upsides. But
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for me, yeah, it's all about the excitement of sentences and and and
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there's something about music that's mirrored in that, in the sense that when a
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musician is really really cooking, you almost feel you know, they say in
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sports, you know so and so it's unconscious. You know, he's unconscious
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right now, He's he's in his zone. And I think that's really the
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highest state that you get. And sometimes with the writing, and I felt
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that these essays lent themselves to a lot where I could just sort of let
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loose and let rip and because I really do feel strongly I felt when I
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wrote this book, I remember thinking, well, no, you know,
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if it doesn't do anything else, maybe maybe it'll turn some people on to
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some great music, you know, if nothing else. It sort of has
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this proselytizing effect. So for me, I'm I'm in full rhetorical mode and
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I write about these musicians because I think they're important. So I'm glad that,
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yeah, that kind of intensity, that kind of passion is there hopefully.
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Yeah, it did it for me. With specifically John Hartford, little
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to nothing about his music. What was your background with her before you hear
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the esay? Just not much at all. So it was great to read
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his story and then just started to play his stuff, pulled out Spotify and
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started playing it, and so yeah, that's I'm now a fan of his
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work. It's so cool. Yeah. And Gene Clark is interesting too,
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because he's not only a founding member of the Birds, but he's a principal
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songwriter and wrote most of the band's biggest singles, including I'll Feel a Whole
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Lot Better, which Tom Petty made famous when he covered that, and Fulmon
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Fever eight Miles High. She Don't care about time and set you free this
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time. What's his backstreet? He's from Missouri. One of thirteen children.
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Yeah, Gene Clark. Well, Jeene Clark's the opening essay in the book.
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Yeah, and actually one of the uppergrass in the book is from a
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Gene Clark song. It's wonderful song, strength of Strength. Well, Gene's
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background was a lot like a lot of quote unquote rock pioneering rock and rollers
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in the sixties. He came from a folk tradition. He comes from a
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country. He's from Missouri, so a country background. But any kind of
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kid wasn't into folk in the early sixth earth excuse me to rock and rock
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was dead, you know. Little Richard was in the ministry, and Chuck
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Berry's and j O and Elvis is in the army, and Jerry le Lewis
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has been has been sort of pushed off the mainstage. So smart kids like
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Garry Garcia, the Dad Jean Clark when they were all into folk music,
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and then the Beatles come along and make it okay to like rock and roll
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again. So you've got these people who have kind of non traditional rock and
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roll background, three point harmonies, you know, kind of that whole,
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high, lonesome sound of country. And then they take that and combine that
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with the rock and roll, which is the British bringing American music back to
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America. So you've got this really interesting stew So that's why you get you
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know, folk rock. But for me, I mean, I like gene
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stuff with the Birds a lot. But for me, when he starts making
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his own his own path, there's just really something unique and certainly out of
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time too, as you see. You know, if you follow his career.
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By the mid late seventies, that kind of music isn't cool anymore,
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so it strands a lot of artists at that time. There's no independent music,
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see at that time, so you're either on a major label or you
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don't have a deal. So it makes it it's a very interesting period.
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And Geane to me, is one of those guys too that I mean,
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each one of these essays shouldn't be a Wikipedia article, right, they should
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be they should chew on some topics, and one of the topics for me
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with Gene was, uh, what do you do when the world stops listening
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and paying attention? And that's that's something that faces a few artists in this
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book. And the anonymity because this is the person who's famous. And then
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by this, let's say late seventies, he's playing clubs, you know,
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driving in a van for eight hours, and so all sorts of stories like
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that and Hartford it was actually as the opposite and as you know, for
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being the essay he wrote an immensely popular song that Glenn Campbell made a big
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hit out of General in my mind, And instead of buying big houses and
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lots of cars, he said, you know what, I don't ever have
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to suck up any record l anymore. I got enough money, I'll put
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up my records on little labels. And all they ever asked me to do
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is just drop off the music. Nobody says, this isn't quite And so
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that was interesting the way that Hartsburg bought his freedom, his artistic freedom,
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because that's kind of one of the things. So yeah, yeah, what
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you can do with that that money and that leverage. So why why did
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why did he he returned to the Birds just for like three weeks. There
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was that because he needed his career was struggling, so he needed to get
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back on track. The manager's thought it was he kind of shared the same
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manager as the Birds to a degree, Jim Dixon. So the Birds needed,
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uh, after they kicked ground persons out, they you know, maybe
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another body would be would be nice. And so yeah, he goes along
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and does you know some public, a couple of gigs, two or three
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gigs I forget, and some television, some miming things, and and then
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he leaves again about three weeks later, as you say, that's done because
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he doesn't want to fly. But I think it's the pressure throw Gene Clark's
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career. Whenever he gets really close to kind of mainstream or more of a
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commercial success, something sabotaged, and it's usually self inflicted. So I don't
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know if the psychological element of that is interesting. I mean, any same
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person would stay away from fame in America at popular music. It's what killed
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Jerry Garcia probably. But at the same time, like I said, there
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isn't like some cool independent music scene with independent labels back then, like you're
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either on a major or you're gasped. You're without a label, you don't
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have a you don't have a you know, you're not going to feature.
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Public's not going to hear your music. So it's a real real interesting time
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and a kind of sad time. You have a guy like Jean Clark,
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who's not an old man at all, in his early thirties being seen as
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a washed up. It's the age of punk seventy seven seventy eight. So
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you think about it now, I mean my age of fifty seven, you
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think, oh, yeah, you're over the hill at thirty two, you
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know, right, way old man crazy to think about. Yeah, what
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was the elevator incident too in Minneapolis? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well
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he obviously, and of course there's the chemical part of it. I mean
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he's probably you know, prone to sort of some some form of I don't
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know, manic depressions the right word, but some sort of chemical and balance.
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And like a lot of people, he's self medicated, not so much
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with I mean, drugs were a problem for everybody that time, I guess,
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but for for Gene, I think it was alcohol and that brought on
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some pretty extreme incidents, which they do make for good reading. I have
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to say, I wouldn't want to live there myself. But you know,
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it just goes hand in hand with the intensity of his music. I mean,
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that's that's you know, that's that's the main thing, and that's the
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beauty. After all this is said and done, all these all of us,
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you know, leave this veil of tears, and what's left behind for
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some of us is some music that will enrich and and and and just make
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people's lives better for a long time even though they're gone. So that that's
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the ultimate sort of like victory of these stories is the music is still here.
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Yeah. I thought it was interesting in the elevator too, is like
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that being enclosed places. I think it was like he felt whenever he was
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closer to fame, he kind of felt that that was what the walls were
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closing in on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he would find some way
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to sabotage. Of course, by the late seventies he didn't have to do
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that. The industry is totally different. But yeah, yeah, so fascinating
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guy, and the music is and I'm so happy about that. I did
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a This book actually came out in Serbia a bunch of years ago when I
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was over there, and there was a woman who spoke okay English, but
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she she discovered John Hartford for this book, and she was singing like a
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couple of John Hartford's songs. I thought, well, that's success. You
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know, I've made it now that this book. This woman from Serbia,
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you'd never heard John Hartford, She's like, don't leave your records in the
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song she's singing this song. I was like, wow, yeah, well
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I forgot to mention along with John Hartford, just Jeene Clark's solo stuff I
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didn't listen to, didn't know about. And man, that's some beautiful work
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that he did as a solo artist. The song and the album No Other
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from seventy four. Yeah, well No Other album for seventy four is a
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must listen. I'd start with White Mike. It's a little more traditional,
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kind of like folk rock, kind of country influenced. The great Jesse Ed
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Davis produced it, so his guitars, although of us got a really rich,
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warm sound. No Other is kind of like prog folk. I was
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initially put off, well, but like this is the first time, probably
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fifteen years ago. See, you know, it's got a big sound.
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But now I adore it. And and you can find other things as well,
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the Roadmaster Las stuff, but yeah, all of that solo stuff.
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And the reason we didn't know about is because they weren't selling a lot,
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you know, you're probably selling seventy five one hundred thousand copies, which back
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in the day is I mean, all of his friends are playing football stadiums
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and hockey geeks, you know, and baseball, and he's playing clubs,
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so that stuff really But here we are twenty twenty four, and we're not
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talking about the people who were playing the football stadiums in nineteen seventy four,
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were talking about Gene who's playing for one hundred and ten people at a club
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because you know, the music, the music lasts the good stuff endurers,
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you know. Yeah, yeah. Sadly he was another casualty of drugs and
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alcohol, died of heart failure in ninety one. He was just forty six.
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And another artist you including the book, the late great Ronnie Lane,
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who I've gone to be more and more of a fan of those. Just
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that's why I spoke to you. You were you had someone on your show
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who has a book right right right, So that's really gotten me closer to
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him. And then a friend of mine lent me the Ronnie Lane documentary DVD,
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which did you see that one? Yes? Yes, yeah, and
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documentary yeah yeah. You just you realize what a he's like a gentle soul
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with a warm guy. He just loved the art of music. Didn't really
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think much about money if at all, which was his downfall. Right,
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yeah, that's what you can do. You know, these are and when
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I write anyway, I don't think, oh, I have something to tell
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the world other than this is wonderful music. Part of the process of writing,
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it's enjoyable, is the process of discovery. And for me, when
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you know writing it is like, oh, yes, you know, Ronnie
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what a noble character doesn't care about money, and you're right the ass you
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think, geez, maybe if you care a little bit more about you know.
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I mean, it's a wonderful thing that he did to sort of say
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we're going to take the music to the people and play all these off the
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path like they would they would consciously tour with the passing show places that wouldn't
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get the big bands. But you know, when you're when you're responsible for
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feeding and paying twenty or third twenty people that there's only one hundred and eighty
16:38
people who show up, you know, it's somebody's got to pay the bills.
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So but but but Ronnie Lane, to me, truly is one of
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those people that excuse me musicians that, aside from the wonderful music, they
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helped me live a better life because I think they live their lives in noble
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ways, even though of course we all crash and fail eventually at the end.
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But I can't look. I can't think about Ryan Lane and think about
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taking the easy way, you know, with my arc. This guy died
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for his art, really, you know. I mean, he got sick
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ms, but I find him. I think he's a hero. I think
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he truly is a hero. And I think anyone who has here can hear
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that be inspired by his story. Yeah, here's what You're right. You
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knew he was a handful just by looking at him. Half in the bag,
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naughty little woodchuck in filthy white overalls with a sparkling secret in his dancing
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brown eyes. He somehow managed to smuggle into every one of his songs.
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It was good trouble, though, the kind that may make for an upset
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stomach and throbbing temples in the inescapable morning after, but also abundant memories when
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those same temples are one day to face with gray. He made plenty of
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mistakes because he always did the right thing, and in the end, it
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was his body that betrayed him, not his principles. Yeah, ms was
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what took him down. Yeah. Music was a big part of his life
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from the get go, like his dad played a big role in his life
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with that to in fact debris right he yeah, yeah, you feel Face?
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Oh yeah, your favorite Faces? Yeah for sure, Well that one
18:08
or Hu lah Lah or glad and sorry. There are so many great songs
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and the faces of great als, but just after a while it's like,
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I don't need to give her another riff rocker with Rod Stewart and you think,
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wow, you know they had all these other and that's one of the
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reasons that he left the Faces. They wouldn't let him sing his songs live.
18:23
They allowed him one or two songs per album, but Rod Stewart didn't
18:26
want He didn't want the focus off him. So I mean that that's the
18:30
other thing. They were a trimid. They were starting to That's when rock
18:33
and roll stress becoming big business in the in the early seventies, bands like
18:37
The Faces by touring America over and over and over again. They're really starting
18:41
to play the bigger plays. They're starting to really make the rock star royalty
18:45
money. And that's when he walks away, right, you know, and
18:48
he said I'm gonna I'm gonna buy and what he did, he did have
18:52
a good idea in the beginning. He did something kind of like hard for
18:53
going to do, you know, in terms of the economic and defense.
18:56
He buys this lame recording studio or uh independent remote recording vehicles with a lot
19:03
of bands used it to record their stuff, and that was gonna be the
19:07
idea. Look, I'm not gonna be bringing in big money, so I'll
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read this out. But it was out of proportion to his expensiuters. But
19:12
yeah, to walk away from his it'd be like walking away from the Rolling
19:15
Stones in seventy two because you want, you know, because I want to
19:19
make a different kind of music and have more control over my it. Maybe
19:22
crazy people wouldn't wouldn't wouldn't do that. I mean Townsend talks about that the
19:26
documentary, right, he talks about it. One time he was actually homeless
19:30
and he parked his caravan down on Thowis's backyard by the river. You know
19:36
that fucky stuff. Yeah, yeah, and the small Faces had a lot
19:40
of success. Faces had a lot of success, But he's one of the
19:44
best songwriters of his era. But I don't think they took him seriously as
19:45
a songwriter or not enough. I mean, no, exactly and Small Faces,
19:49
you're absolutely right, let me talk about that. Obviously, Kart coming
19:52
from that R and B background, like a lot of British bands did before,
19:56
they diversify and find their different voices. There's just some great stuff in
20:00
there, especially later on when they're on the Immediate label and they have more
20:03
freedoms and they're making they're making stuff like here Come the Nice and stuff like
20:07
that, really really and then the Faces are a different kind of sound and
20:11
then his solo stuff. So if you if you embark upon the Ronnie Lane
20:15
journey, journey, you've got a lot of a lot of a lot of
20:18
hours and hours and hours and all sorts of different kinds of music and the
20:22
story. I think again it's symbiotic, the story and the music. They
20:25
kind of feed each other because you can't really imagine those albums that he made
20:29
without him thinking I'm walking away from the big thing. And how you can
20:34
continue to make art and still have a roof over your head like that's one
20:38
of the stories in these books. And excise me in this book some of
20:41
these essays, it's like it's all fine and say, oh, believe in
20:45
your vision and be independent, strong, but everybody's got to play bills.
20:48
So how do you how do you balance that? And that's kind of interesting
20:52
to me, you know. Yeah, his solo albums Anymore for any More
20:56
from seventy five one for the Road, which came out the following year,
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those are ones that music fans should give a listen to if they haven't yet,
21:03
and then yeah, yeah, they're hard to find. But then it
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was like what could have been? Because he did have that album with Pete
21:08
Townsend Rough Mix in seventy seven, and then he starts writing and touring with
21:12
Clapton. But that's around the time when he's diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. Yeah,
21:17
and passed in ninety seven. But what do you think would have become
21:18
of Ronnie Lane if not for MS? I mean, would he finally have
21:22
that moment, that project that would have you know what? I think?
21:26
I think that he would have had to have lived another fifty ten years.
21:30
He was starting to be recognized. I mean, the music industry starts,
21:32
you know, it's constantly changing, right, So if if he had lived
21:36
on into the eighties, bands like the water Boys and people like ba It
21:40
would have sort of started name dropping him, kind of the way Alex Children
21:42
was ignored and then independent rock bands started name dropping him. I think he
21:48
would have been, you know, kind of like scenes like John Prime was
21:49
at the end of his life, this revered great songwriter who was out of
21:52
the commercial mainstream and then sort of came came back in. And there was
21:57
a bit of that when he at the end of his life, when he
22:00
to Austin, there's a real healthy music scene there, at least there was,
22:03
and they appreciated him, they knew who he was, so that that
22:07
was kind of nice. But you know, a lot of those a lot
22:08
of those musicians, you know, the eighties are not kind to them.
22:12
The doors are closed again. They're old. They're old at thirty three,
22:15
and so if he had lived another ten years or so, I think he
22:18
would have been revered as sort of the kind of the godfather of British you
22:23
know, contemporary folk, you know folk rock. I guess because you listen
22:29
to the water Boys, Fishermen's Blues like that. Elms so so influenced,
22:33
not influenced by Ronnie Lane, but but with that same spirit, and I
22:37
think you know, these things come in cycles, you know, but right,
22:40
you know, Ronnie's struggling at a time. If you don't have a
22:42
synthesizer and sinsonic drums and a saxophone and so although you're not a real musician,
22:48
so you know, you kind of he probably would have hid for having
22:52
money would have allowed him to hide for a few years. You know,
22:55
you know, you can just sit these things out, but he unfortunately couldn't.
23:00
To the end of his life, he was involved in the research for
23:03
MS and then there's the horrible story that the person he put in charge embezzled
23:07
them. Mind. Yeah, that's just crazy. He did meet a great
23:11
lady though, the woman he was with at the end of his life,
23:14
she took care of him. And then there's clips in that documentary where he
23:18
would just make an appearance here and there where he would sing because he couldn't
23:19
play the instruments anymore. But he seemed to be more at peace at the
23:22
end. Yeah, yeah, I know it sounds like it's a tough way
23:27
to die, but he definitely there's still that spirit, like when even when
23:32
he moves to Austin, I have some of that stuff. Obviously I don't
23:34
listen to a lot because some of it's kind of sad. Yeah, his
23:37
speech is effect that he can't play. But other hand, there's something beautiful
23:41
about like I'm gonna I'm gonna keep doing what I love for as long,
23:45
you know, as long as I can. And again, you know,
23:49
there's a lot to be I think inspired by with these musicians isn't necessarily the
23:55
music itself, but the way they went about their lives in regards to music.
23:57
So the way that Ronnie kept trying to be happy and to make music
24:02
with friends, I think again is really inspiring. You know, we all
24:06
get lots of no signs, we get lots of red lights, but someone
24:08
like that, your spirit, you know, keeps pushing through, is inspiring.
24:12
You mentioned John Prine. Interesting way that I discovered John Prime is thro
24:15
ever clear because there was a song in the lyric going to put a John
24:18
Prime record on, and it's like John Prime, John Prime. Then I
24:26
started listening to his music. Yeah, Ramones in the book, so let's
24:30
talk Ramones. You say that even the Ramones' respective members individual strengths and mostly
24:34
weaknesses as neophyte musicians, contributed to the band's immensely inventive sound. And you
24:40
spend on that one. What made the Ramones so unique? Well, what's
24:42
what's cool is? I mean, they're not They've never other people have done
24:48
it since to to grow well, I mean, look, the bottom line
24:52
is that the Ramones sounded so unique because they couldn't really play their instruments well.
24:56
So they made a new style out of it, a better style,
25:00
an amazing style. So Tommy's not even a drummer, so he plays,
25:03
you know, pretty straight. Johnny, who's the guitar player, provides all
25:08
the color. He only plays bar chords because he likes standing in front of
25:12
the mirror and seeing the downstroke and looking kind of cool, you know.
25:17
And indeed he just holds it together. But yet they all love pop music.
25:21
See that's the interesting thing about these musicians. You know, this time
25:23
period, if you're gonna write, if some young person's gonna write their own
25:26
version of this, which I hope they do, you know, put every
25:29
clearer wherever I'm right. But the thing about these musicians is they don't all
25:34
come from a rock and roll background. That is, their their record collection
25:38
isn't just other rock records, So you're getting all these different disparate influences that
25:44
make the music. You know, like like Ronnie Lange, The Small Faces
25:48
are are R and B kind of focused band, and yet he has this
25:53
country background, or or Glenn Mattlock of the Sex Pistols. Right, he
25:59
hasn't got punk rack in his collection in nineteen sixty nine. He's got motown
26:03
and and the Small Faces and all these different disparate elements, so they kind
26:10
of cross fertilized and make for an interesting kind of music. And the Ramones
26:12
are like that. I mean, deed, he really was trying to write
26:17
a song like Saturday Night by the ba c Rollers when he wrote his you
26:19
know, Let's creep off. He wasn't being ironic, you know, it
26:22
was like, yeah, this gets a great tune. Yes, hey do
26:26
you why you know they're the Ramones for the first few albums. I mean,
26:33
there, that's the real thing. They really are that out there.
26:36
They really are trying to sell the Rollers. You know, they thought they
26:41
were gonna be as big as the Beatles. They didn't know that, you
26:44
know, this quirky cult band that you named Jake, No, they wanted
26:48
I mean Joey Ramon wanted to be on the radio. You know, I
26:51
think you mentioned the book. Isn't that why they ended up doing the movie?
26:52
They were in the movie? Yeah, I think he kind of stand
26:56
still in the movie at Rock in High School. I kind of like,
27:00
that's the last one that I own, the one with Phil Spector, and
27:03
that album has its own charm, but after that, it's just very and
27:06
there's a couple of good songs after that, but there's just nothing else that
27:08
sounds like that first album. It's kind of like the Band's first album,
27:12
or Henris's first album, or The Violent Felm's first album. It's almost like
27:17
you've you've created a new kind of music, you know, that didn't exist
27:22
before, and that's that's pretty remarkable. And the way they did it without
27:26
really knowing they were doing it, which was interesting with that, That's what
27:29
was interesting in that essay was like, how could it kind of like the
27:32
Stooges the first STU Studios albums. I mean, these guys there was no
27:36
master plan, but no one can make albums like that now, although they
27:40
would try to. You can't try to be naive, you can't try to
27:42
be primitive. You just have to be that way. These guys are feral,
27:47
you know, they're feral. And so you know, there's a great
27:52
book on Johnny Thunders and I talked to the author. Oh yeah, I
27:55
have that book. Yes, yes, yes, Nina. My apologies to
28:00
Nina because she was on the show, but Nina Antonio, Nina Antonia,
28:07
yes, yes, yeah, in cold Blood is the name of it.
28:10
Great book. She's got a good book on the New York Dolls too,
28:11
yes, yes, So here's the big question with the Ramones. They all
28:15
drove each other nuts. I mean, you know, Johnny loved to humiliate
28:18
people. Poor Joey drove the bnmate's crazy unintentionally because of his oc D.
28:23
Took him an extra hour to leave for a show because you had to touch
28:26
all the doorknobs. Right, But were they all vastly different people or was
28:30
it was it that there was so much alike that they couldn't be around each
28:33
other. That's figure out. Well, first of all, I mean,
28:36
you spent enough time with I don't have much experience with this, but you
28:40
know, locked up with the same people in a van in a van.
28:42
Well. I had Monty Melnick on the show too. Monty was oh he
28:48
was a riot. He is a riot. Yeah. He was one of
28:52
the first guests. Yes, and he was the one who had to keep
28:55
the peace or try to. My favorite stunt start story one of the books.
29:00
He was saying that the routine was that because they were playing a lot
29:03
of one night ers, they would after the show, they would they would
29:06
leave the gig and they would take the bus and they would go to like
29:07
a seven eleven. Everybody, Johnny would get his his cookies and milk and
29:12
they'd have their thingies. You always had to have cookies and milk. All
29:18
American. Johnny he allowed himself one beer after the show. Then you have
29:22
cookies and milk. So anyways, it's like three in the two in the
29:25
morning. It's some you know, like you know, some suburb of some
29:30
town that you can't you know, and the map and there and they're they're
29:33
the ramones are all like walking around and the store clerk says de Manta.
29:38
You know, it's really nice that you take care of these boys like this,
29:41
because people with special needs like that and not everybody what they thought.
29:45
The Finder of the Oh, that's great. Did you ever see the or
29:55
listen to the clips of the guys from their moons when they were on Howard
29:57
Stern throughout the years. Oh my god, I can't recall which Joey had
30:04
called in. I think, who is Joey at most odds with I'm trying
30:08
to work with Mary about his alcohol. Yeah, Marky was in the studio
30:14
and then Joey calls in and they're just like, you know, you don't
30:17
lose it, you don't lose it, you know what you know? You
30:19
know, you don't realize. I don't know if people know you wear a
30:22
wig, you know, And I mean, well, yeah, like picks
30:29
on his kids. And then there's the also fact they are they are really
30:33
different. I mean, Johnny's really different from Joey and deed he of course
30:37
is a lunatic. So it really is like a family though in a lot
30:41
of way, because they couldn't get away from each other, you know,
30:44
because they knew that they had something that worked, even when the music had
30:48
really stopped being creative, when they were just a touring machine. Still it's
30:53
still the ramoone. So I think they felt like they needed each other.
30:56
But there was a lot of just likes, you know, be honest,
31:00
as you've seen the from all the biographical information. Johnny takes Joey's girlfriend and
31:07
Mary's her and you know, so that's it's not like a one night stand.
31:11
It's like his wife. That's not going to help. That's not The
31:18
last ever show was a Red Rocks I think in the nineties, and they
31:21
played a huge Yeah. Yeah, it was kind of a but thankfully for
31:25
them, they didn't come back eighteen times like for a final that they didn't
31:27
make the money. Actually, they were offered more money. That's what's the
31:30
big festival that's in Brazil, the Rio whatever. Yeah, so they were
31:36
offered that after they were all done, and Johnny wanted to do it because
31:38
it would have been like a million dollars split, you know, or a
31:42
close enough split four ways. And I think by then Joey had had enough
31:48
physically too, he wasn't well. And yeah, and but that's yeah,
31:55
that's so that that kind of music isn't really relevant. It's the experience.
31:57
But the first album, the first couple of the first three albums are great.
32:02
You see diminished Returns, but the first minute it just doesn't sound like
32:06
anything else. I can't imagine what that would It sounded like a nineteen seventy
32:10
six, like like, hey, come on over, I got this new
32:13
record. You would think, like, what is it was? Like?
32:15
I knew a guy when I lived in Texas when I was in grad school.
32:17
He was a bit older than me, and he grew up in Texas,
32:21
and he said he remembered what it was like when he was with his
32:23
mother and they were going to get groceries and he was in the family car
32:27
and Good Vibrations came on the radio for the first time, and he heard
32:30
it on the radio and like, what is this right? This is the
32:34
pop station, you know, which speaks of the fecundity of that time,
32:37
the kind of music like you could turn the radio, you could have Bob
32:40
Dylan, the Supremes, Marvin Gaye, the Rolling Stone, you know in
32:45
those days. Yeah, it was truly, you know, the the it's
32:49
not nostalgia, it's just a fact. The economics alone wouldn't allow that.
32:53
Now there was actual money to be made making music, So that's why people
32:57
did it. I mean, it's not like something who was in the water
33:00
in the sixties. There's a lot of money around. We won the war,
33:04
so we lived the hug for a long time, right, We ran
33:06
the world North America, so lots of money and lots of so it made
33:12
for a really, really fascinating period. The book Down Rock Podcasts will be
33:15
back after this. Ray Robertson, he's with us to talk about his book
33:22
Lives of the Poets with Guitars, Thirteen outsiders who changed modern music. And
33:27
there's a there's a sequel coming. We'll talk about that in a little bit,
33:30
But I want to ask you about Little Richard. You write, quote,
33:31
in spite of sixty years of artistically degenerative delution, wants in trivializing,
33:37
commerals, commercialization, and simple overexposure, the best of Little Richard's music remains
33:43
dangerous. You had that the triumph of his art was created by his belief
33:46
that God and the devil are two separate beings. And then you have to
33:50
choose who you're going to pray. What a compelling statement that is. Can
33:54
you explain why you feel that way? Well, again, something has to
33:58
interest me about each of these essays. So Number one of the music that
34:01
was the first music that I heard was my parents. If you were listeners,
34:06
remember eight tracks. My parents would have eight tracks that I would listen
34:10
to their you know, gold Goldies kind of thing. But then as I
34:14
got a ordered and started you know, reading and looking into it a little
34:16
rich is fascinating. The sense that it's either or it's either God or the
34:20
devil, which makes for a pretty tumultuous life, but it makes for some
34:23
pretty incendiary art too, you know. So he would have these periods of
34:28
oscillation, or he'd you know, go to the church and then rock and
34:31
rolls evil then come back and of course battling with his own not battling with
34:36
the sexuality. But obviously it's not very he's not he's not openly gay,
34:39
you know, in the fifties and sixties. So again that kind of that
34:44
kind of inner conflict makes for some just some well some music that's still,
34:50
like I said, kind of kind of scary. I mean those and it's
34:53
amazing those songs are on the radio, you know that they were, especially
34:58
at that time. Yeah, like like Touty Fruity, you know, that's
35:02
a song that he'd heard as a kid, a song about sodomy or so
35:07
it was like tooty Fruity, good booty. It was a song that you
35:09
did that be couse he changes the words and but you can still, I
35:13
mean the intensity of it and how it gets in there, gets on the
35:15
radio. It's just fascinating how it sneaks through, I mean to me,
35:20
and you know, you've got to have a Little Richard Best of Specialty records
35:24
in your house that you don't really have a rocket home collection. It's just
35:28
one of the foundations of it. But the life and again another one of
35:30
those guys. You know, the Beatles just went on and on about how
35:36
important Little Richard was their sound. So he becomes you know, he's washed
35:39
up at twenty nine or thirty and then he comes back into vulgue a little
35:43
bit. But again he's like thirty one, thirty two, thirty three when
35:45
he's trying to make a comeback with the kids. It's fascinating stuff. I
35:51
mean, like trying to fit into certain trends and it's just again that that
35:55
kind of morass of economics and change demographics. But what ultimately remains though,
36:02
to me, is that is that fiery, fiery music that that well again
36:08
like it's it basically inspires the Beatles, you know that, that's how important
36:13
it is. Yeah, one of the founding fathers of rock and roll.
36:16
Yeah, yeah, I mean and it doesn't matter what his struggles he had
36:21
in nineteen sixty eight. The point is you put that CD on now of
36:23
nineteen fifty seven, and you know it's just uh, stand up to attention.
36:29
Yeah, he's on the Mount Rushmore with Yeah Buddy Holly, Yeah.
36:34
Yeah. Let's skip ahead of Graham Parsons. When you talk about country rock,
36:37
it's hard to not have his name come up. The album's Safe at
36:40
Home from sixty eight with his first band, the International Submarine Band. There's
36:45
a band name, and it's only album with the birds Sweetheart of the Rodeo
36:49
also from sixty eight or two that you point out as being go to records
36:52
when you talk about the origin of country rock, and but he liked to
36:55
call it cosmic American music. Who are his early influences? So how did
37:00
he ultimately develop that sound, that country rock sound. I was amazing when
37:05
I was writing that book, and then The Lives of the Poet too,
37:07
And now how amazing how many people, I mean people in these books their
37:12
pivotal moment with seeing Elvis on ed Sullivan time after time after time. Everybody
37:19
who's anybody who's come out from anybody, any artist that came out, say
37:22
early seventies on through like mid nineties, sixties. Yeah, yeah, so
37:28
of course he had, you know, the typical rock and roll experience.
37:31
And then rock and roll goes into aby. It's again the early sixties,
37:35
so I get another guy into folk, commercial folk, you know, the
37:37
Peter Paul and Mary kind of folk, the Weavers kind of folk. And
37:42
then and then again rock and roll was cool again. So he starts playing
37:45
rock and roll, but actually he gets he gets sort of turned onto country
37:50
by a friend. He briefly attends Harvard for like, you know, one
37:54
semester, the kind of drops out and country was in his background. I
37:58
mean, he's from the South, but I think it wasn't cool. And
38:00
I think a guy named Ian Dunlop who played with him in their National Submarine
38:05
band, sort of said hey, how about this music? And then Graham
38:08
becomes a troubadour for that, for that kind of music. And then you
38:14
just have that time grade where everything gets put together in a blender, you
38:16
know, the country if you have the vision and the and the integrity also.
38:22
But see that's the other thing too, that Graham had the economic wherewithal
38:27
to do say anythings, to call his band the Flying Breeder Brothers and call
38:30
their first single Hot Breader number one. Because Graham got a check every month
38:34
from his family. You know, he's a trust fund kid, so he
38:38
could make risky. He could do things that ordary people wouldn't do because it
38:44
would in fact their career. Well, he didn't have to worry about it.
38:46
So to me, I mean that was the one Estually I was sure
38:49
I wasn't going to write for this book because I wrote a novel called Moody
38:52
Food It's kind of loosely based on graham persons. So I thought, well,
38:57
I've kind of said all I have to say, and then of course
38:59
this is the longest death state in the book. So Graham. Graham was
39:02
sort of my first, my first like real obsession with like real good music,
39:08
I mean truly obsessive. And I just don't think that people can listen
39:14
to his music enough. And there's again so many different different stages, like
39:19
you were saying, in the nursial submarine band the Birds is sello stuff,
39:22
and I'm a bigger fan of the Brito Brothers than any of it. So
39:27
just just just just music that needs to be heard and what I find interesting
39:30
with his story is that you can kind of on first first look, people
39:34
can judge him as out good looking guy, rich guy, southern Southern with
39:38
son of guy with amazing talent. But then you look at his life and
39:44
it wasn't all so rosy. Dad his dad shot himself. Yeah, and
39:49
his stepdad probably helped his mother die. I mean she was in the hospital,
39:53
yeah, giving her a yeah, giving her her last or fatal last
39:59
drink. She's in the hospital. Kraig Chris Silman said it was like something
40:02
they read, like a Tennessee Williams play, like The South, the Tragic
40:07
South. I mean, obviously Graham was probably I mean, he was a
40:09
kid too. You know, we judge him for oh, you know,
40:10
he was like he was twenty twenty seven years old when he thought, right,
40:15
yeah, yeah, the twenty seven club, right, yeah, So
40:19
sure he exaggerated a bit, but yeah, definitely, I mean, and
40:23
Graham was one of the first millennials in the sense that, you know,
40:27
his parents are rich and they gave his own like little apartment downstairs. He
40:30
would have like his friends would say, you know, like we were fifteen
40:34
and Graham had like his girlfriend's stay over. He's had his an apartment downstairs,
40:37
and he just had. So he always felt that the world owed him
40:40
a living because he always had one. That way, but you can you
40:44
can put together in one call him all of the sort of like things that
40:46
are real not attractive about Graham personally, but it doesn't matter because of the
40:52
voice and the songs and the sensibility. And that's the beauty of art.
40:58
We don't need the life. I mean, the life can help illuminate the
41:00
music and be interesting and context, but ultimately it all drops away and all
41:05
we have left are Hey, I'm gonna go pick up this music and put
41:08
my stereopen, my headphones on, and your life changes. Yes, that's
41:14
the mystery of music. When he died at twenty seven, I think what
41:17
year was that? Was it seventy three? So this is a crazy story,
41:22
is how things end here? Joshua Tree, he had some fascination with
41:25
that, right. He would go there and he'd look for UFOs there and
41:29
then he dies there and I don't know something happened to his body. Yeah,
41:37
Well what happened was Graham was at the funeral of the great guitar player
41:42
Clarence White, who died. I think he was also twenty seven, about
41:46
three months three or four months before he was killed by a drunk driver.
41:50
Clarence White. He's with the Birds and just monster musician, plays on all
41:52
the band. Jean Clark's duff, wonderful musician. Anyway, So Graham was
41:58
there and he's with his buddy Offman and said, you know, don't let
42:00
them do this to me. You know, I don't want to be here
42:02
while they's you know, at the sermon and the whole bit. This is
42:06
all cheese. He taped me out to Joshua Tree and burn me in the
42:08
desert because they like to go there and hang out. Philip Coffin was a
42:12
roadie for the Stones who end up working for Graham, and they were best
42:15
buddies. Yeah. Not sorry to interr up, but that's interesting because that's
42:17
the guy who knew Charlie Manson. Oh yeah, I mean he's in these
42:21
documentaries talking about I say Charlie because he would always call him Charlie. You
42:24
know, Charlie was a great musician. He was a great musician. Then
42:27
he got out of prison and I don't know what the hell happened to him.
42:30
Why Graham was attracted. Yeah, I'm reading your book, I'm like,
42:34
wait a minute, that's the guy who knew Manson. Yeah, he
42:36
was in prison with Manson. He was Yeah. Bob Coffin said he knew
42:39
Graham because he met him to the stones, because of course Graham's hanging around
42:43
Keith, and he said, I knew, I knew I'd like Graham because
42:45
the first thing he said to me, he says, can I borrow five
42:47
dollars to buy some beer? You asked the roady for somebody. Yeah.
42:53
But anyway, so when Graham died of probably a combination of morphine and a
43:01
few other things. One of Hankway was his favorite drugs. So Graham,
43:04
of course I had to have that. He just finished he's kind of celebrating
43:07
the end of the second album previous Angel Oh and Joshua treating the desert.
43:13
Anyway, he died, and so long story short, Philip Coffin decided to
43:16
honor Graham's wish. So the body was at the La airport. Philip Coffin
43:24
already had a hearse. It was kind of a hip thing to do.
43:27
Neil Young had a hears back then. So they put on their suits,
43:30
they went to the airport, said we're here for the Parsons body. Simpler
43:34
times, you didn't need a piece of paper, a pass code or anything.
43:37
And they got the body and they drove it to the desert. It
43:40
didn't entirely emulate it, unfortunately, but said it set it ablaze, and
43:45
that was to respect the pack that they made. Yeah, he's not it's
43:50
not a famous musician then too, So it's it's kind of that's kind of
43:52
like the most famous Graham was it was after he died. It was like
43:55
musician, rock musician emulated in desert by crazy to hippies. This is just
44:00
after the man sits too. You know, it's only been a few years
44:02
and so any time you hear young people burning each other stuff, Yeah,
44:08
it's like he didn't do it correctly, and they didn't correctly. The poor
44:14
guy's body is he couldn't google it, man Philip Philip Kaufman. Yeah,
44:22
let's finish on a happy note delivered by John Hartford and set like I said,
44:25
yeah, I wasn't familiar with until reading the book. So you're saying
44:28
the book that his music was all about Joy a folk country bluegrass composer who
44:31
mastered the fiddle and banjo. Can you talk about the two extraordinary things that
44:36
influences his career summer job on a steamer right in the Mississippi River and then
44:40
hearing Earl Scruggs on the Grand Old Opry Show. Well, I'm glad that
44:46
you brought it up ending with this, because I ended the book on with
44:51
that essay on purpose. Okay. I mean it's not you know, ideally,
44:54
I mean not idea. I mean you can just read this book and
44:58
just go, oh, that's the cool lest the I'm all they're interested in
45:00
Ronnie Lance when we did. But there is a certain order to it,
45:04
and I want it. There is some heavy stuff in this book. There's
45:06
a lot of darkness, and I kind of want to end in with Hartford.
45:08
Not that it wasn't happy any He got, you know, dancer and
45:12
died in his sixties. It's not a there are no happy He had things
45:15
in real life. But Hartford did it right as far as I'm concerned.
45:20
He had all these influences folk, bluegrass, and yet he was enraptured like
45:23
anybody who was in their twenties in the in the sixties, in the mid
45:27
sixties, with the Beatles and with you know, pop music, in general.
45:30
Again, I like music that is kind of mongrel music. It's sort
45:34
of it's all these different disparate elements and puts them all together into something else.
45:39
So what I heard his album Aeroplane for the first time, which I
45:44
think is nineteen seventy one. Yeah, I had never heard anything like it.
45:49
You know, it was a bluegrass record. But I'm not a picker,
45:51
so some of that stuff can sound a little more I suppose if you're
45:53
playing it, it's amazing, But it was all of the wonderful, refreshing
45:57
clarity of bluegrass with a pop sensibility, with a guy was zonked out,
46:01
gnkd out, weird lyrics, beat nick lyrics. It really was the sound
46:07
of somebody making the music that was inside them. Because you see in the
46:10
sixties he's with RCA Records and he's making sort of music closer like what Roger
46:15
Miller would make with his own heteros and credit Tists, and then with Aeroplane
46:19
and Morning Bugle and then you know Mark Twaing. These albums are just they're
46:23
not like any other albums. Again, I like music that doesn't sound like
46:25
any other music, and there's really nothing else that sounds like John Hartford.
46:31
Yeah, his song Gentle on My Mind recorded in sixty seven, released in
46:36
sixty eight, and that same year Glenn Campbell recorded and you mentioned this earlier
46:39
between the two. The song won four Grammy Awards. So he moved to
46:44
Hollywood with his wife shortly after. But she says that that changed him but
46:49
not for the better. After that move, better for his music, but
46:52
not better for his marriage. Right, you know, he get did he
46:55
gets swept up in that lifestyle a little? The two, Yeah, I
46:58
think so much. They fired his his team of managers. Yeah, yeah,
47:02
And you know what, I don't think it was the wrong thing.
47:06
You know, he could have kept putting out sort of those middle of the
47:08
road albums, which I have a fondness for, but they're not great.
47:10
But he really, you know, his wife's told me in the essays,
47:14
she said, he John said, it's time to let it all hang out.
47:16
You know. Now we got the money not to go buy big houses
47:20
and cars and spencer drug habbits, but to like buy a house on the
47:23
river and put a studio in and let's make some let's make music that we
47:27
want to make. And so he signs with Flying Fish, which is a
47:30
really small label back then, we'll still is it doesn't existing in renal thing.
47:35
And it didn't matter to him that he wasn't going to reach millions of
47:37
people. The goal was to make music that no one else was making.
47:42
You know, have friends come over for the week and we'll make an album.
47:45
You know, just fascinating and not all of it works, but that's
47:46
what that's what art is. It's not it's not a that's makes it.
47:50
That makes it different from entertainment. Entertainment you're always gonna hit hit, you
47:52
know, you go see the Eagles are going to be entertain because they're gonna
47:57
play those songs just of the stone, you know, just nothing. This
48:00
is something different. You know, sometimes it might work, sometimes it might
48:02
That's why I was attracted to the dead to a great degree. It feels
48:06
real because they're trying to do something for them and if you enjoy it,
48:09
God bless come on board, let's do it. But I'm not doing this
48:13
entertain I'm doing to entertain me, And I think good art comes from that.
48:15
The artists is trying to save themselves. They're not trying to save you,
48:19
but they save you because you know, you participate in their little metaphysical
48:23
adventures. Yeah, well you did. He did rebuild the relationships with some
48:29
of those friendships that he that you know, he burned bridges with. And
48:34
then he continued to record through the nineties after Flying Fish, because he is
48:38
a round flying fish. He put out eight albums from like mid seventies to
48:43
the mid eighties and then Founder. Yeah. Yeah, he kept recording right
48:47
up until two and anymore, I'm sorry, until he passed in June of
48:52
two thousand and one. There was a two thousand and two album that came
48:53
out here. Yeah, but but he pleaded until he couldn't. He couldn't
48:57
play the fiddle anymore because his hands didn't work any and he could just sing,
49:00
and then near the end he couldn't really even sing. But he would
49:02
still have friends come over and they would sing, and he was sort of
49:06
like, you know, listen along again. I just just a reminder of
49:10
what's important in life when you you know, and and how all the other
49:15
stuff is nice. We all want nice, you know, we all want
49:17
to roof over our heads and blah blah blah. But ultimately, I think
49:22
music is a religion, and and I think the people in this book,
49:24
especially John especially with John Hartford as well, are people that you look to
49:30
to help guide you through that that life, because it really is a fascinating,
49:32
mysterious thing music, and we're really lucky to have it. Life would
49:37
be a lot less interesting with that, for sure. He dead at sixty
49:40
three, non Hodgkin. He was buried wearing a Batman cape. That great,
49:46
that's the story there. His wife, his wife had thought she had
49:52
put out his suit and someone brought it to the under to the the consumer
49:58
home. Of course, John being John, he did have a Batman suit
50:00
and it was the wrong So that there's are the funeral home obviously called the
50:07
set Lefter's obviously, you know, and and his his wife's all her kind
50:12
of said, you know what, John would have loved it. Yeah it,
50:19
which I think is a wonderful way at the book. That's kind of
50:21
what the book is because yeah, there is if this is real stuff,
50:23
there's a lot of sorrows, a lot of tragic, but there's also beauty
50:27
and laughter and and that's that's part of the journey too, So you know,
50:31
and I'll say that with the best album title might be Mark Twang,
50:36
Mark Twang, and that album is so punk because that comes out. I
50:38
think it's seventy seventy six, seventy six, and it's just him, no
50:44
overdubbing. He's he's stomping on a piece of plywood, or he's playing the
50:49
fiddle or the banjer, and he does it all himself. I mean that
50:52
is punk rock. That is d I y as far as he can go,
50:54
you know. Yeah, hardcore hardcore lives of the poets with the guitars.
51:00
Thirteen Outsiders Who Change Modern Music, published by bibli Oasis, can be
51:04
found wherever books are sold. So that one's been out for a little while.
51:07
Now tell us about part two, the sequel. What do we got
51:10
planned? Well, I'm planning, not hoping to hear my publisher before too
51:15
long. They tend not to be too quick. But I'm pretty happy with
51:17
it. I think it's the last one of this type. I'm going to
51:20
keep writing about music. But this book had I think thirteen people in it,
51:25
and the next one has twelve, so that's a nice twenty five.
51:29
So yeah, I think I said twelve up top on this book Tuesdays twelve
51:32
essays, right, but one of the essays has two and has Paul C.
51:36
Book Rams I put those together because neither of them. Okay, for
51:39
a minute there I thought, yeah, I thought I was just totally messing
51:42
that outays. So who's in it? Alex Chilton, Staple Singers, Danny
51:51
Kerwin of Oh Cool, Yeah, really you're a fan of Yeah, I
51:57
mean all that stuff, you know, it just fascinates me. The pretty
52:00
up right Fleetwood Mac, you know, Peter Green, Bob Welch. Yeah,
52:04
well here's what's Wow, You're gonna love this. This is the longest
52:07
deathsay in the book. I just became super obsessed with Dandy Kerwin. What's
52:12
need about that period is everyone of course knows the Stevie Nicks Buckingham seventy five
52:16
on, and then people tend to know the Peter Green the Blues band.
52:20
Well, well, Peter Green leaves in seventy. So from seventy to seventy
52:22
four, there's this other Cleetwood Mac and the piod that Danny Kerwin is in
52:27
the band, who joins the band, who joined the band at eighteen?
52:30
He was eighteen years old in three months when he joined the band of sixty
52:31
eight, so he's the wisen veteran at twenty And I mean some music that
52:38
I wasn't aware of till till much later in my life. And what a
52:42
story too. He's essentially almost by the time he's thirty, and so just
52:46
fascinating stuff. There's a Muddy Waters essay. There's a James Booker essay,
52:52
Duster Bennett Canadian by the name of Hansom Dead country country rock guy. Oh,
52:58
Dwayne Allman, oh cool, and Captain Beefert Uh, I can't remember
53:05
who else. Oh Nico. Nico's in the book too, So yeah,
53:07
yeah, it was a lot of fun. So I'm hoping, Uh,
53:12
I'm hoping that you know, here's something not too distant future. I'm open
53:15
for next year. So if we're all still on the still around, maybe
53:19
I'll buggy again and we'll talk about lives too. Oh I love to,
53:22
I love to. Yeah. And by the way, Kerwin, was he
53:24
on just then? Play on? Was it one album? No? He
53:28
was on? Oh, No, he's on He's on Bear Trees, which
53:31
I love. Oh Bear Trees, babe, Hey listen. The second Lives
53:36
of the Post of Guitar is called dust More Lives of the Post with Guitars,
53:40
and it's named after this penultimate song on Bear Trees by Danny Perwin called
53:45
Dust. That's how important I think Danny Kerwin is because it's yeah, I
53:50
mean, that's that's, that's that that that's that's the Danny Kurr I'm talking
53:53
about. And some of the singles too, that was really So he's on
53:57
He's he's on the flip side of Albatross. He does a little instrumental on
54:00
there, then he plays on them, play on and then the three albums
54:04
that he's sort of the lead guy on. But there's a couple of singles
54:07
is too. I advocate anybody check out a song called Dragonfly, which was
54:13
a one off single after Bear Trees came or Kilnhouse came out, and it
54:17
is truly, I mean, it is my favorite Danny Kerwin song. It's
54:21
true. Really, I don't know if I've ever heard that one. Well
54:22
you're lucky because there's actually it's kind of cheesy, but they did like a
54:25
German television thing, so so it's kind of like they minded the video of
54:30
it, so it's but just check check it out. And the flip side,
54:35
Purple Dancer is is not as amazing, but pretty amazing too. But
54:39
Dragonfly, and what's neat about that is that. Oh and we'll talk about
54:43
Danny Kerwi. We'll do another time. But yeah, that's a teaser.
54:46
That's a teaser. Yeah, thanks, thanks so much for being on again,
54:50
Rady. This was great. And yeah you're welcome back when that one
54:52
comes out, you know, just you reach out to me or we'll publish
54:57
this. So we'll hook us up boot to publish it. I will go
55:00
alright, cool, all right man, thanks so much. All right,
55:02
calculator man, m that's it. It's in the books.