Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Ep 64: Testosterone, Hormone Therapy, and Peptides for Health and Longevity with Dr. Rand McClain

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Ep 64: Testosterone, Hormone Therapy, and Peptides for Health and Longevity with Dr. Rand McClain · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:00
  Dr. Rand McClain: There's at least a correlation between low testosterone and things like coronary artery disease. Type Two Diabetes, colon cancer in men prostate cancer, osteoporosis, so there's reason to consider replacing some or most even all these hormones.
• 0:21
  Philip Pape: Welcome to the Wits& Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in.
• 0:45
  Philip Pape: Welcome to another episode of Wits & Weights. Today's episode is all about hormones, peptides, innovative treatments. With my special guest, Dr. Rand McLean, Dr. Rand will reveal the importance of testosterone its effects on your body, how to manage them. We'll also examine menopause versus men Oh paws, the diagnosis and treatment of hormonal deficiencies. And we'll probably sneak in some questions from our community. Dr. Rand and I also delve into the science of peptides exploring their role in the body and practical use in treatments. And of course, we'll discuss his new book cheating death. Dr. Rand has always been passionate about nutrition and wellness, which led him down an unconventional path to become an expert in alternative and progressive medical treatments.
• 1:29
  Philip Pape: His remarkable journey includes serving as the youngest senior accountant in Deloitte history, professional kickboxing, surviving prostate cancer, and pursuing medical school at age 37. Despite skepticism from the status quo, today, Dr. rands practice regenerative and sports medicine attracts a list celebrities and world class athletes seeking his innovative treatments from the latest in stem cell and hormone therapies to IV drips that reduce trauma and anxiety to human performance health programs and futuristic longevity treatments. Dr. Ram believes that your past health mistakes don't define your future. Dr. Ran it is an honor to welcome you to the show.
• 2:07
  Philip Pape: Well, it's my pleasure. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I was excited to have you on here. One of the themes of your life story resonates me and that is to find conventional wisdom.
• 2:17
  Philip Pape: That's That's seems to be a common theme throughout your life. So we'll just touch on one of those but feel free to expand. What was it like to go to med school in your late 30s?
• 2:26
  Philip Pape: I'm I'm in my early 40s. And I can't imagine just a few years ago, having gone to med school, and how has that impacted your view of medicine, especially with I think you call it the the managed health right? The modern Managed Health Care System?
• 2:39
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, there are pluses and minuses as there usually are right in situations like this.
• 2:45
  Dr. Rand McClain: Focusing on the positive, I think I had a very different I know I had a very different perspective going through it 37 First of all, I wanted to do it.
• 2:51
  Dr. Rand McClain: I didn't do it because My great grandpa the way down to my PA did it. And I didn't do it because I thought there was lots of money in it. Because there isn't. I didn't do it because of anything. But I really had a passion for it. And I actually the truth of it. As I was traveling across country, I found out I was gonna be a dad.
• 3:10
  Dr. Rand McClain: And I said, you know, I gotta settle into something for good here and not just bop around.
• 3:12
  Dr. Rand McClain: This is actually my ninth career if you want to just talk about careers, not other odd jobs. So that helped out a lot and then being 37 years old. And eventually, you know, by the time I got to see patients a little bit older, I had been around the block a few times myself with injuries and illnesses and whatnot. And that helps, I believe, tease out some of the things where you Okay, that's great, but I'm never going to really like it reminds me of a joke. You know, what do they call the doctor with the lowest passing score on the entrance exam?
• 3:52
  Philip Pape: Documents? I don't touch that one. What is it is still a doctor doctor,
• 3:56
  Dr. Rand McClain: like me last time I go through this. It helped me pare down the things that weren't so important. I knew I was never going to be a dermatologist. I had no interest in dermatology. And so I remember getting mad when I scored. This can sound like I'm bragging but it really was not I got a 95 on the exam. And I remember thinking Gosh, darn, I screwed up because I over studied, you know. So the point being that the optimistic side of this is when you get down the road like that you learn to prioritize and adopt perspectives differently. You know, who cares, we get an A or B and dermatology if you never want to be a dermatologist, you know, it allowed me to focus on the things I really enjoy. And I knew I wanted to pursue and I think that was an advantage also. We all deal differently with people when we're 20 than when we're 30 and 40 and whatnot. Of that a lot just going through like internship, you know, dealing with patients definitely and having been a patient that gives you a leg up now. The native part of all that is 37 You're supposed to be doing pretty well financially.
• 4:57
  Dr. Rand McClain: And, you know, you should have a lot of other things going on, I ended up going through this as a single dad at one point. I spent the nights in my van, you know, up at school and whatnot. And that part of it was not so fun, although again, you know, being a little bit older, it's gonna sound trite maybe, but it is absolutely true. I can remember, I finally did, I was able to afford a place which is actually just a couple blocks down from where I am in my office now.
• 5:28
  Dr. Rand McClain: They used to be Marine Corps officers, barracks, just one room deals. And I remember sitting out there and an afternoon and you know, having a hibachi grill, you know, cheapo things, even in the CVS now. And it was cooking up some hot dogs and some baked beans. And a lot of people will work hard roughing it high. And I were thinking, you know, I'm really not, I'm in California, the sun's out, and I like hot dogs and bait. This isn't so bad. And of course, you know, the take home as we get this gonna sound, whatever corny, but you know, following your dream that makes a lot of other things not so bad. And that's what I was doing. So, yeah, I had some good experiences, and some not so good. But it all worked out.
• 6:13
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you know, that really resonates with me with the later in life that people asked me, for example, as a nutrition coach, how could I be a good client when I didn't start this? Or a good coach? And I didn't start this in my 20s. I said, Well, you know, I've dealt with so many people, both as a father and as manager in the engineering world that those skills translate, and you've got this unique perspective that no other person in med school with you at the time had, that I'm sure translates to this day as you work with your patients. At nine careers well, so you talked about the surgeries that you had, or the personal experience you had gone through. And I think you you talked about that in your book as well and cheating death, if I could just quote it real quick, because I did get an early copy was able to peruse that you said you're quote, alive and well, both because of great doctors and surgeons, and because you've been open to a wide range of treatments. And I think your message about healthspan is partly about having options, maybe options beyond what people think are there, right. And I've seen people fail my clients, I've seen people fail my very close family members time and again over the years, because there's this myopic view, I feel that most traditional doctors have, and they have to go out and find other treatments, alternative therapies, hormone treatments, specialist coaches, et cetera. What are your thoughts on all of that?
• 7:26
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, I think the point I'm trying to make in the book, or what he attends to the book, anyway, is to get the word out that there are other avenues. And what most people think, even if you're pretty much in touch with medicine, if you're not a doctor, or you're not reading the the journals every day, you're gonna get behind. And even doctors get behind because we are very specialized in what we practice, typically. And that's just a matter of, we have so much information that we have to gather and learn. And then we have to be proficient in that area. We always talk about, you know, the gatekeepers of primary care providers being the ones that sort of collect all this together, I can't think of a better way to do it. You can try and be, well, you should always be your best health advocate.
• 8:14
  Dr. Rand McClain: But unless you've been trained in medicine, trying to do that over, someone has already been trained in medicine, to play that same role is going to be harder to do. That mean, you can't do it. But
• 8:26
  Philip Pape: just to clarify, you're talking about the scenario where you go to the doctor, and they kind of have that holier than now era about them. And you are the kind of the dumb person doing the internet research. And I'm just I'm very much simplifying, but these are real people's kind of thoughts about this subject. And you know, even when I talk to my family about is that that's kind of where you're going with this.
• 8:46
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, I you know, I can make a joke either you being redundant when you say, you know, God like and Dr.
• 8:51
  Dr. Rand McClain: Ish, I mean, that's the old school way, the very paternalistic way that, but it's still pervasive, obviously, because we speak a different language. Although that's changing man. One of the things is a good offshoot of the biohacking. Although, you know, there's a lot of negative consequences. We've seen certainly a lot of possibilities, where you can go wrong, but people are getting interested in doing a lot of learning on their own. And, again, that comes with pros and cons. Dr. Google was not always your best source, but it's changing the environment. So patients are a lot better educated, they have a lot more information. So it makes it easier for a patient to push a doctor who might be gaslighting them, or, you know, playing that, that God thing, because you can't make chokers. But, ya know, that's the point I'm trying to make. And really, the whole idea of the book, again, is to let patients without sounding like I'm a jerk.
• 9:44
  Dr. Rand McClain: Doctors also know it because I don't I don't think I'm sounding like a jerk when I because I preface it by saying, you know, our profession is such that we're specialized. Why would an expert in skin cancers, let's say know anything of out. I don't know, when he's to reduce blood sugar rice we learned in internship. So I don't mean it that way that might have sounded. But you know, the idea is to get the word out. So kind of everybody can be the gatekeeper and least have a little bit of knowledge about Oh, when I see this, I'd like to focus on this necessarily only.
• 10:19
  Dr. Rand McClain: That is my job. That's my specialty. But oh, by the way, you might want to see a rheumatologist about this or whatever. And also, the other point that I think you're asking me to dress is, because it's changing so fast, I make the point in the book that I missed out on a lot of treatments, because I figured, oh, you know, to use the spines example, I mean, they're gonna have to get this fused, or I'm going to put the equivalent of a door hinge in there, and that's not going to work for me. So I'm just gonna cut it out for as long as I can. 33 years later, they got so bad that, you know, the guy pretty much told me Well, first of all, the MRI, doctor, radiologist chased me out in the parking lot, said, Hey, man, do you realize what's going on here? And then the surgeon said, basically, I should I need to do this yesterday. So I don't want people to get to that point.
• 11:03
  Dr. Rand McClain: Because then you you've limited your options as I did mine. And so if I can get the word out that, hey, we have this option, this option, this option? And you mentioned futuristic treatments. Yeah, they sound futuristic to most of us, but they're here
• 11:18
  Philip Pape: to catch up. Yeah,
• 11:21
  Dr. Rand McClain: what I want to get across, so manage our health and do it and, you know, with all the options we have possible,
• 11:27
  Philip Pape: right? Yeah. And part of what you said there was, you know, not every doctor is not every doctor that comes from the same place. And there are definitely some better than others that are some that stay with stay up with the research versus others. I used to have a primary care doctor years ago, and I know people like to, you know, don't talk down about primary care physicians who, who taught and studied and he was always opened every time I brought something up. Oh, you know, let's explore that together. And I love the doctor like that. And what was the other thing you mentioned there that I'm kind of losing track of here. The Oh, the how things change over time, right, like laparoscopic surgeries and things like that. I had two surgeries two months apart. A couple of years ago, one for micro diskectomy and one for an appendectomy. Both laparoscopic I can't imagine having done both of those surgeries. I don't know 3040 years ago at all let alone two months apart. I wanted to just last personal question that we can get into maybe the listener wants to hear all about the hormone stuff. What is your personal daily routine look like when it comes to your lifting your nutrition your wellness?
• 12:28
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, I'm what they call it morning Lark right in terms of prototype. So if I don't get it done early, you didn't get it done typically. So I start today with breakfast.
• 12:39
  Dr. Rand McClain: Mine is pretty much bacon eggs and toast. If it's a special occasion, my wife will make pancakes instead of toast.
• 12:47
  Dr. Rand McClain: usually put a little almond butter or something on there.
• 12:49
  Dr. Rand McClain: But then I get into my workout which will be either weights.
• 12:53
  Dr. Rand McClain: I'm getting ready for my next surgeries. I've got to get to New shoulders. And I mean that people say What do you mean, you're training for your surgery? Yes, I'm getting in shape for surgery because you only come out of surgery in the same fitness or less right by a day because you're training data then you go in. So I've been hitting the weights a little bit more, but I love bike riding. I still love I don't like it in the ring anymore because of my spine. But I love you know, training as though I were a boxer. So I hit the heavy bag, I get my morning workout in. And that's usually anywhere from as little as an hour from doing below to max stuff or, you know, can be as long as three hours.
• 13:27
  Dr. Rand McClain: And I post all my workouts on Garmin Connect so that I can share that with really anybody and you know, in a way we're all in this together, why not keep it ourselves, then all hell see patients on certain days, I'll have my lunch. Really after that it gets boring. I mean, for most of the listeners, actually they might be bored with the first part. But after that, I feel like when I once I get the workout in, which I believe and I think I hope I make this point the book exercise is what I call the great equalizer. I've done them not the most I can but one of the best things if not the best thing I can from my healthspan and gotten that out of the way and from there it's gravy. So and then I look at you know, I see patients I got a few other businesses that are related to medicine I work on certain days and then I'm out usually before I make it upstairs, you know. And much to my wife's chagrin because she likes watching shows and stuff and she's actually a night owl not that you have to hear any of this stuff but
• 14:29
  Philip Pape: these are all fair points because people relate to like routine
• 14:35
  Dr. Rand McClain: but you know I say it's boring I love it if I didn't get my workouts and some good food and good company and that sort of thing and then get my job done which I'm blessed because I get to see patients and I love what I do. I don't I know I I don't see sick people.
• 14:46
  Dr. Rand McClain: So that makes my job a lot easier. I have already found I take it too much to heart when I see somebody really really ill and there's no limits as to what you can do when someone's taking 26 meds and got, you know, three or four comorbidities? I'm just not cut out for that. But yeah, and, you know, we live here and in Southern Cal can't complain except for the taxes.
• 15:10
  Philip Pape: Right? Oh, I'm in Connecticut so I can complain about the weather and the taxes.
• 15:14
  Philip Pape: Not here. All right. All right, cool. You know, it's good for people to know this. I mean, you do lift and you you stay active and eat eggs and bacon and all that great stuff. And like you said, like, you alluded to fitness and movement exercise is 8080 90% of the equation. And if you're not doing that, first, maybe these other other treatments are the next step after you get those things dialed in. So speaking of some of these treatments, let's let's start big picture. Testosterone, something men and women are interested in. Why is it important? Let's just Let's just start there. Big picture, why is important? And then what are the signs of low testosterone?
• 15:55
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, I always joke, and it dates me with those who are of similar generation that, you know, it almost sounds like we're trying to make it out like that Saturn lives kits for shimmer. It's a floor wax, no, it's a desert topping. But in some senses, it really is that important testosterone anyway for males and females, because it's responsible for so many things that leverages your energy, your sense of well being your libido, your your body composition. And, you know, tell me there's not at least one of those that everyone's interested in, right, and I named a few of them. So that starts to diminish the production of it in our bodies, somewhere around age 35.
• 16:41
  Dr. Rand McClain: Whether it's referred to as menopause or andropause, that's when it happens in men and ditto for for females. You know, perimenopause, actually, the way we put her Perry enterprise, and it's noticeable. Some people do better with it than others.
• 16:54
  Dr. Rand McClain: We've all met the guy or the gal that is bouncing off the walls with energy, right? And that's not their problem, no matter what happens, they can be 90 and have low testosterone, their bounce off walls, but that's personality based. But the dead giveaway that he has a energy libido sense of well, being that good mood that's driven by personality, certainly a body composition. And you said Well, yeah, that's also you know, genetically based, okay, given that too, but that's where people who otherwise are doing well come in and see anything, okay. I'm doing everything. And it's a lot of times it's the professional athletes, right?
• 17:27
  Dr. Rand McClain: They're like, they're the last ones because they know the tricks. They go, Okay, well, I pulled this out of my ad, I pulled this out of Max, I know,
• 17:34
  Philip Pape: the training the nutrition, everything. Yeah, they keep tweaking
• 17:37
  Dr. Rand McClain: and keep tweaking and then finally, okay, I'm done with this, man, you gotta help me, I pulled everything out. And it's just too much work, or it's, I'm not getting there anymore. And so I see tend to see them later in life than, say, the the so called average person. But yeah, testosterone is important for for all the above. And then you know, for females only, although having too high or too low estrogen affects males too, but more directly because of the body parts. And the way women are designed to use those body parts. estrogen deficiency can affect women, pretty significantly, can cause a deficiency cause anxiety and palpitations, the classic night sweats and hot flashes, and eventually, vaginal dryness. So you know, there's a lot of reasons to look at hormones, the less sexy ones DHEA, progesterone pregnenolone, those are important too. And they all start to drop off is this cascade of hormones that starts with cholesterol. They're called the steroid hormones for the word cholesteryl. And they're all steroids, not anabolic steroids, which is where the confusion comes in. I think. By the way, it includes vitamin D people, I think, are realizing that more and more again, the biohackers and people that are paying attention. We named it in the late 1800s, I believe. And we thought it was a vitamin. No, it says steroids. But these are all important, and why not replenish them, replace them. If we can, we cannot get the body at a certain point anyway, to make them again on their own. So fortunately, we have the ability to replace them. And it's been a game changer. You know, death and taxes and deficiency of hormones is eventual we can we can fix at least one of those two of those we were working on at least in terms of state taxes. Right. And I think we talked about that on the show.
• 19:31
  Dr. Rand McClain: But yeah, it's definitely something that is a game changer. And that's why I think I have a great job because I see a lot of happy faces.
• 19:42
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I imagine.
• 19:42
  Philip Pape: And what I've always wondered, though, is like, first of all, has it has any Has anything changed in the last 50 to 100 years that causes the decline in some of these hormones to occur more frequently or earlier?
• 19:55
  Philip Pape: That's the first question and or is this just a natural state because we live such long lives, and it happens to just about everybody. In other words, there's nothing wrong with you, per se as this is just going to happen.
• 20:06
  Dr. Rand McClain: It's both great question because, yeah, typically it happens to all of us like I was applying with the other debt taxes. And lo one day when did you know if you live long enough, you got to notice it correct. 300 years ago, life expectancy was depending upon what, you know, estimate you read 30 to 35 years old, on average, what do you worry about, you know, adding, you know, moving melanoma is probably not going to be unless either you can stay out in the sun as much as you want, you're not going to get wrinkles or malignant melanoma. So they were enjoying it, there was no sunscreen back then they weren't worried about it. But yeah, we're living longer. So we're going to experience those things now. But also, the way we live just going back not 1000s years, just again, that 300 year span there. You know, three years ago, were herding sheep. Every once in a while a wolf might come in, you know, and you got to get your dander up, so to speak, or an opposing tribe, which is more of an issue, maybe. But you didn't have the chronic stress, you didn't have the necessity of cortisol manufacture, and it flowed around your bloodstream, which hammers you. And that affects pretty much most chronic cortisol release pretty much is a detriment to everything we got going for us. And that is a cause of earlier rather than normal or later, whatever you want to call it. hormone deficiency.
• 21:25
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad you mentioned that. Because covering the gamut between the reproductive hormones, and then cortisol, and I think you mentioned thyroid, they're also critical. So what what would you say to the statement, you know, if you can get your diet, nutrition and lifestyle diet dialed in, you probably won't need hormone replacement. Is that is that a false statement?
• 21:44
  Philip Pape: For most people?
• 21:46
  Dr. Rand McClain: Depends on how long you live, you live long enough, you're probably going to be better off on hormone replacement for two reasons.
• 21:53
  Dr. Rand McClain: One, even if you're not suffering, okay, meaning, okay?
• 21:57
  Dr. Rand McClain: The testosterone drops, and she has less libido, but she's also to the worse, let's say, I've never met someone she wants to stay with. Who cares? You know, no, one's bugging her. She doesn't have the libido because the level below and in every other area, she's fine, you could argue, okay, because we treat people and not numbers, don't worry about it, then she could live a full life and but we've connected more dots than that. And we can say even if you're doing well, meaning you're not complaining and you're happy with it, there's at least a correlation between low testosterone and things like coronary artery disease, type two diabetes, colon cancer in men, prostate cancer, osteoporosis. So there's reason to consider replacing some or most even all these hormones.
• 22:53
  Dr. Rand McClain: And I'm talking about the steroid hormones. Now, you mentioned thyroid, that's a whole nother as a protein based tournaments. Okay. But even so, the idea that you treat people, not numbers, there's some times where you might want to treat it just because it's low, because it's going to be better for your health span. Anyway, it tees you up for a longer, healthier life, with emphasis on the healthier part, rather than being short, caught by surprise, or caught too late. Okay. Yeah,
• 23:24
  Philip Pape: I think it's a good way to look at it. And I don't know if this is an apt analogy, but that's kind of how I feel about strength, and building muscles that, you know, you could be 30 and feel like you're, you're fine and capable.
• 23:36
  Philip Pape: But if you don't build that muscle mass as a matter, of course, it's gonna catch up to you, you're gonna get weaker, more frail, and then it's gonna lead to all sorts of health issues as well. I mean, I think there's, there's multiple things in life like that in the area of wellness that the more proactive you can be, which is harder when you're not dealing with an issue or when the industry is telling you Well, you've there's nothing wrong, so don't worry about it, go to a doctor, you need something fixed, right when something's gone wrong. So I think that's a good message.
• 24:01
  Philip Pape: Doctor rent
• 24:03
  Dr. Rand McClain: was a couple of things you did there that statement. One is that, again, if you're muddling through with less and less muscle mass, and implied in there is that you're going to have less and less strength to then okay, that's fine, if that's what you feel, but you're definitely not the same as you were when you were 30 and 60. And just because you're saying, Well, I'm okay with it doesn't mean it's okay.
• 24:32
  Dr. Rand McClain: In the sense of, you know, measuring your physiology, you know, apples and apples. And so, you know, you're definitely, for example, more likely to suffer from osteoporosis or there's a huge correlation between muscle strength, muscle mass, and of course, VO two max. So there's no debate about that anymore. So you're definitely cutting yourself off at the ankles at least or the knees. You know, if you don't State stick with it and you do have to stick with it. That's the point. There is sort of a cat by the tail there that's necessary. Just like we have to eat and breathe and a lot of us. And then there's another thing you were starting to harp on there that, you know, I like to hopefully make people laugh, but I'm serious when I say it, you know, normal. Okay, yeah, I feel like, you know, this is the way my father, my mother lived, whatever, 60 or 80. It's normal, and I accept these things. Okay, well, that's your prerogative. Okay. I'm a registered libertarian. I wouldn't argue with you in that sense. But it's normal to get sick and die one day. So who cares about pursuing normal? For the sake of normal anyway?
• 25:39
  Philip Pape: Yeah. Yeah, it seems like it seems like the best things in life are both hard to achieve, and also make you an outlier. And that's those are the things we want to pursue. I don't know if you agree with that statement. But and once you once you put in that effort upfront, it actually makes everything else easier down the road, whether it's treating your hormones, you know, getting stronger, or whatever else. So speaking of the diagnosis and treatment, I'm actually curious on the diagnosis part, because now that we've the context is, you may not have any issues, right? You may not even have symptoms, but it's still good to treat it. How do you diagnose it from that in that context, and then we can get into treatment as well?
• 26:17
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, great, great question, because yeah, takes it a step further. So So you have a patient, let's say who's a sick a 55 year old female. And I pick that because with osteoporosis, a female's just statistically more likely to have osteoporosis than a male. Okay. She's happy as Clint has no complaints, except she's got osteoporosis. Well, you can draw ABS you can see Oh, my goodness, she's not only low in testosterone, but she's also low in estrogen. Even if she didn't have any complaints about estrogen deficiency. A lot of females sort of dodged the menopause bullet to a large degree, but she's also diagnosed with osteopenia or worse osteoporosis. You can take some Fosamax even add a bunch of calcium to your diet, and therefore suffer from constipation, I would argue, add vitamin D if you're not on it already, and see if that helps.
• 27:08
  Dr. Rand McClain: Of course, weight bearing exercises, always very important to stave that off, but I've seen many time where you've got someone who's active, she's 55 year old female, and, you know, unless she wants to pick up Olympic lifting or powerlifting, she's doing plenty of weight bearing exercise, but she's still suffering from this well, you can add estrogen and or testosterone and help with that diagnosis. Now, again, there's not a direct correlation between symptom and treatment in terms of what's classic, but a lot of times it is a lack in the sex hormones, the steroid hormones, that leads to or certainly contributes to osteopenia or osteoporosis. Does that make sense? It does. Yeah,
• 27:56
  Philip Pape: yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 27:56
  Philip Pape: And even worse, is when someone does have symptoms, and then and then the kind of conventional medicine says that there are no options that can be very frustrating for people as well.
• 28:09
  Dr. Rand McClain: And that's really why motivated me because I am sick of hearing that, of course, personally. But I see it in patients that are told something from another physician. And come on, you know, if you're passionate about what you do, whether you're a doctor or a trainer or someone where you're trying to help somebody with with their health, and you hear something from another practitioner, that's just completely completely bogus. It kind of chaps your rear end, and then I mean, be honest. And so you know, I Okay, I gotta get this out there to to counter that, at least, if not straighten it out. So yeah, you know, there's somebody see all the time. And it's really discouraging, obviously, to the patient, but as a physician to me, too, because you see someone who really, really wants to do something, wants to get better, and they're getting advice.
• 29:01
  Dr. Rand McClain: That's just again, completely bogus. It's very frustrating for a lot of parties, right?
• 29:08
  Philip Pape: Yeah, and even just as a human being just in any pursuit, someone who just has that either apathy or dismissiveness, if you will, and I'm sure there's a lot of factors behind it. But we don't have to get into that part.
• 29:18
  Philip Pape: Let's get into the solving problems for people, which is what you do. And we talked about being treated for hormones could be a good thing to pursue, regardless of maybe all the symptoms. How do you treat those hormonal deficiencies, and I want to get into, of course by bioidentical hormone replacement therapy, traditional therapy kind of comparing those and then common myths, misconceptions, one of which, of course, is oh, it's going to cause cancer. We know that people still think that's I want to understand your perspective.
• 29:45
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, well, that's a broad question.
• 29:50
  Philip Pape: compound question.
• 29:52
  Dr. Rand McClain: Fair enough.
• 29:52
  Dr. Rand McClain: It depends upon the hormone of course, that we're talking about this deficient or in some cases, excess And we deal with them all differently. I alluded earlier to the fact that there's a difference between I call fat based or cholesterol based hormones and protein or peptide based hormones. You know, you got the thyroid growth hormone, other peptides, insulin. Those are the protein based or peptide hormones. And then you've got the steroid hormones we already mentioned. And they work differently, that's for certain.
• 30:27
  Dr. Rand McClain: And testosterone, I will say is unique in that, unlike, say, thyroid, where you're looking for a sweet spot, you don't want it to be too high or too low with testosterone, more or less, you're looking for a minimum threshold at which you want to remain or stay above. You don't want to go miles above that, or anything like that. But the emphasis is on don't drop below that because you will become subtherapeutic. Okay. And there are some linearity once you become therapeutic, until you go to there's such a thing as too high there is. But but just again, there's differences in the way you treat hormones, depending upon which ones we're talking about.
• 31:08
  Philip Pape: Let's say DHEA, right, for example, just to throw it out of the hat I've seen, you know, over the counter stuff is, you know, sold in five milligrams, 30 milligrams. So there's obviously a dosing difference. How do you How would you help somebody? Treat DHEA?
• 31:21
  Dr. Rand McClain: That's a great question. Let's use DHEA. One, so there's an old rule of thumb that for each year, on the planet, you use one milligram of DHA. I don't know where that comes from. But the problem was sillies hormones and DHA is a great examples. You've got this hormone that you want to do certain things. And by the way, it has certain other effects because of its ability, the body's ability to interconvert depending upon what's necessary.
• 31:50
  Dr. Rand McClain: Okay, what
• 31:52
  Philip Pape: testosterone in this case, yeah, what what's as testosterone in that cascade?
• 31:57
  Dr. Rand McClain: Yeah, yeah, testosterone is further down.
• 31:59
  Dr. Rand McClain: But there's kind of like, it's like a little triangle circle, whatever you call it, you know, work and go down the corticosteroid Riah route. Order can go down what we call the sex hormone route, because it includes testosterone and estrogen. And there's a lot of other androgens that we don't talk about that are, you know, intermediates, but also have effects in and of themselves, that can be converted from DHEA.
• 32:27
  Dr. Rand McClain: So I always use the Quick example, you know, do you want to go from LA to San Francisco via New York? Or do you want to take the straight shot, but in the old days, as they say, the old days, a lot of times, particularly with women who were suffering from lack of energy will be there and what a doctor would prescribe progesterone in the hopes that it would convert to the necessary tests from and or estrogen if needed. And this is really we're talking about mainly OBGYN is because they were used to using progesterone and estrogen to treat the Oregon the uterus. Okay, so they're already comfortable with that as Oh, okay. Well, we'll treat it with pedestrian. I'm going way off in a tangent, sorry. But back to DHEA. Yeah. And, you know, this, this delves into why we're classifying DHEA as an over the counter supplement, but testosterone not got me. Because you can do a lot of things the wrong way with DHEA. For example, as you point out, it can give birth to a lot of different things down the line, testosterone being one, but also estrogen, which may not be appropriate for a male. And so you kind of roll the dice there with each individual, because they may convert it differently than another individual apropos to DHEA. I like to supplement with one of the three metabolites, seven keto DHEA, which isn't normally assay. But that will not typically convert to a hormone you're not looking to use. So you can if you really want DHEA in the system, plugin with seven keto rather than DHEA, which can either remain in the serum or convert to DHEA sulfate. But those can run into trouble that you don't know by converting things you don't necessarily want. giving away too much information. No, no, no, I
• 34:13
  Philip Pape: can nerd out on this stuff for hours. And I think maybe a lot of the listeners to do that's the cool thing about podcasts, right was we can't get into the stuff. But that's something I learned right there is, you know, like you said, there's downstream effects. So to be more targeted, right and work with people who understand this stuff like you and, and others like you that that can help you, you know, target the treatment. So you mentioned creams, right like estrogen, progesterone, I mean, there's testosterone creams, there's all those. I actually have a question from one of our community members, Christine, why she was wondering if you should stop all the creams once a month to help the receptors I guess help the receptors recover and avoid getting over sensitized or desensitized?
• 34:53
  Dr. Rand McClain: Yeah, that's a great question. And I hear that when often I don't know where that came from. But the idea that You're going to desensitize the receptors, I think maybe stems from the idea that you can actually down regulate some of the receptors. And it's really more of a result of reversing an upregulation. So when you're shorting hormones is The fascinating part of the body, right? Your body's not making enough keys for the locks says, We're gonna make more locks for the same keys. Brilliant, right?
• 35:22
  Dr. Rand McClain: And then all of a sudden, you use replacement therapy, you got plenty of keys, advice, okay, whoa, we don't need this much.
• 35:30
  Dr. Rand McClain: And so downregulate some of those locks the receptors in this case, and, you know, there's some downregulation, we understand when you overdo it, if your normal, so to speak, like someone who's 25 years old, and decides he wants to cheat the system, whether it be bodybuilding or whatever. There can be some downregulation there, but for someone who's using testosterone replacement therapy, the key being it's to replace what's no longer being produced, right, naturally, then, yeah, the idea of coming off to upregulate, the receptors doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, because while you may get some benefit in terms of the way you feel, because Oh, wow, you've upregulated them, because you're short for a while, again, it's temporary.
• 36:22
  Dr. Rand McClain: And you're robbing Peter to pay Paul right? Here that?
• 36:27
  Philip Pape: No, that's good.
• 36:27
  Philip Pape: That's good. To clarify, it actually sounds a lot like the same, that same kind of downregulation that occurs during metabolic adaptation when you're dieting where the idea is that you're damaging your metabolism, which is not true, because as soon as you go back and feed yourself, it recovers.
• 36:38
  Philip Pape: So the body's resilient is what you're saying. It's good for people to know this and not get scared off from some of these maybe misconceptions. Okay, so let's, because well, I know we got started a little late. But let's let's I want to talk about peptides. Right? Because those
• 36:57
  Dr. Rand McClain: are, yeah, those are the that's coming from the audience, right? Your people, they have the sort of, I guess we call it one offs that, you know, we may not think about it, because it's kind of not mainstream. But yeah, that's a common question, actually. And so just the bottom line it no do not go on and off. It's not
• 37:18
  Philip Pape: while you need it.
• 37:18
  Philip Pape: And there you go. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits, & Weights. If you're finding value in the content, and want to stay up to date with all our latest episodes, be sure to hit the Follow button on your favorite podcast platform. By following you'll get notified whenever a new episode comes out. And you won't miss out on knowledge and strategies to level up your health and fitness. All right, let's get back to the episode.
• 37:42
  Philip Pape: Actually, there was another question from another, a different Christina. She's asking if there's a there's a combination of supplementation with adaptogens vitamins or herbs, you would recommend in any scenario, kind of a high level question. I know
• 37:58
  Dr. Rand McClain: what if I'm reading or I'm hearing that right? She's referring to what I refer to in Chinese medicine terms as what would be called a superior herb. One that's not used to treat a condition but as something you could use all the time, because just makes you better. And saying is is one that people will suddenly can take, you know, unless you get sick, but generally speaking, it's good for you, right? Yeah, is there one out there? I'm not big on formulations, even though Chinese medicines loaded with them. You have some of those ancient formulations and I'm, I'm too far removed from it. Now to be able to recall some that I'd say oh, yeah, this is a brilliant one, keep keep doing it. There are some evolved. Use of Hirscher, whoo, which is generally speaking one of those that's going to only be good for you, it restores what they call kidney, again, if I recall correctly, which really kind of boils down to hormonal balance.
• 38:50
  Dr. Rand McClain: But in terms of what she's asking, you know, I'd rather take an adaptogen, Siberian Ginseng, and combine it with whatever vitam I'm looking for, you know, I think I'm sure. And maybe
• 39:07
  Philip Pape: I got it, which is consistent with you were saying before, it's like don't just throw everything at it go after the what you need. What about ashwagandha? I want to ask you about that. What are your thoughts on that
• 39:17
  Dr. Rand McClain: is? Well, the question I get often is, is that going to be a substitute for testosterone replacement therapy?
• 39:24
  Philip Pape: No, well, I'll be specific, right? Because I understand in the lifting world, it's being looked at as a performance enhancer, and then also in kind of the hormone support world for things like mood and anxiety.
• 39:36
  Dr. Rand McClain: Very individualized. And I would call it you know, speaking Chinese medicine, which deals more subtleties. The result would be more subtle. It wouldn't be something I'd say oh, forget about it. But I think that you might find a lot of times when you're supplementing. You're replacing what's missing, and that's why like I use the example of vitamin beach. Well, if so, One back in my day was we didn't have vegans, but they were called vegetarians. Right.
• 40:03
  Dr. Rand McClain: And so they weren't getting up each well. And they did some beach 12 Oh my goodness, they were elated. They were the you know, they were nuts about V 12.
• 40:08
  Dr. Rand McClain: And they would go preaching about right. Well, as a carnivore, omnivore at the beach, I was like, what is all the fuss about? Right? Because I wasn't short in it. And so that's I think, where you see a lot of individual differences when people try sublet. Oh, my God, you got to try this work right for me. Okay, well, so I'm not downplaying ashwagandha at all, to go supplement, but if you need it, great, very few that are going to put you to the next level. Or, you know, taking the next level a better way to put I guess, if you're already makes sense. That makes sense.
• 40:42
  Philip Pape: Yeah, you're already saturated with it, or whatever you want to say you have you have what you need.
• 40:46
  Philip Pape: Like as examples, immune
• 40:47
  Dr. Rand McClain: boosters, right? Really what's happening is you're bringing your immune system back to its regular state that you've been somehow diminishing by staying up too late or drinking too much or whatever. So so that's an classic example. So when you hear that kind of stuff, it's an immune boosting supplement. I would use some skepticism to doing that. But I think we're gonna find more and more we'll be able to, at least in the short term, tweaked some of those. By more just stimulating it better still, though, by stimulating it back to its normal, better state. rapamycin is a perfect example of something like that, where in general where we're stimulating autophagy my sense of drug I'm sorry, I just took a huge turn tack. I've heard that Yeah.
• 41:35
  Dr. Rand McClain: rapamycin is a anti rejection drug. Okay, they use it to kidney transplants right? In higher dose and more regularly.
• 41:43
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, we found now that at least in the animal studies, and all looks good for humans, that if you use a smaller dose and punctuate the week, with just one time, it's enough to stimulate this process of cleaning up the mess, as it were, you know, autophagy is where we level clean up the mess that's been created, reorganize things, you know, I call it you know, wipe the spaghetti sauce off the recipe book. So you can actually read the recipe, reorganize the DNA, right? So that cell can operate properly.
• 42:13
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, that's really the idea here is that you're just getting the immune system to operate as best again, by sort of just a little nudge if you were very broad and very general, but but the idea is the same.
• 42:30
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, I love that. And me, I'm sure you can examine that in the context of vitamins and minerals and other nutrient deficiencies and all that where, again, if you need it and you take it, it is going to be kind of like a miracle that people will take start taking magnesium and their migraines go away and they sleep better and all these just because they were deficient in that one nutrient. Doesn't make it fun. Because we it it doesn't make it fun. It's just
• 42:51
  Dr. Rand McClain: knowing about is worth a try. It's a solution.
• 42:54
  Dr. Rand McClain: Yes, my knees. It's not gonna hurt you. I mean, really? Yeah.
• 42:58
  Dr. Rand McClain: I might just because Maggie's was pretty. It's top three in my experience of being low. When we when we check. But you give intravenously to a woman who's in labor and you're trying to quell those contractions. Every 15 minutes, we give six grams intravenously. That's the equivalent of oral 60 grams, okay? But every 15 minutes,
• 43:25
  Philip Pape: now, that's a huge amount versus two versus a pill, which is like a half a gram.
• 43:27
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 43:29
  Dr. Rand McClain: Right. But if you have to go on for a couple days, you might have a problem.
• 43:31
  Dr. Rand McClain: But imagine trying to do that orally, you can't overdose on hankies.
• 43:35
  Philip Pape: Right, right.
• 43:38
  Dr. Rand McClain: Very, very, very loose stools, right and maybe they you know, because of that you can get dehydrated and stuff, but you get my point that these are they're not innocuous, but they're very hard to make a mistake with so it makes it easy for us to knowing that Oh, wow.
• 43:51
  Dr. Rand McClain: That might you know, we studied I know that'd be a cure for my migraines, you know, some electrolyte imbalances there.
• 43:56
  Dr. Rand McClain: Gosh, and what are the the other upsides because you're so sure maybe didn't fix your migraines but is going to help you know relaxes smooth muscle vasculature so you get more blood flow to the muscles help relax a little bit keep you a little looser. Nothing wrong with getting more blood flow to the muscles right only good thing so that's what's exciting to me on a very basic level with what we know now in medicine what we can do with it.
• 44:23
  Philip Pape: For sure, yeah, and you mentioned skepticism earlier skepticism and experimentation, they all kind of go hand in hand and that's that's what we're all about hear so you're you're inspiring me to to keep keep digging in and making sure I've got all my bases covered. In fact, I think I started taking more vitamin D again, I had gotten off off track there along and I was reading through your book and reminded I should probably should up here in the Northeast during the winter.
• 44:46
  Dr. Rand McClain: Not always had mentioned in the book. But going back to that example about you know, three years hence. If you are going to be dead typically on average by the time you're 3035 you weren't worried concerned About the sun vitamin, right, getting your vitamin D from the sun because you're going to be long gone before you had a chance to develop malignant melanoma, which can kill you. Nowadays we're living a lot longer. So that is a risk trust me because I you know, I last time I had 36 of these puppies that had to be removed, right?
• 45:17
  Philip Pape: You got a nice tan I'm imagine it
• 45:20
  Dr. Rand McClain: moved to California, and I didn't take care. We didn't know any better.
• 45:22
  Dr. Rand McClain: And honestly, even when we did, I didn't do what I was supposed to do my fare. But the point is that you're going to live longer is the anticipation here, you know that we're let's be optimistic. So we can better living through science take a pill to get that same vitamin D without exposing ourselves unnecessarily to the radiation that can cause a problem. Let's do it. I'm not saying stay out of the sun. Just wear your sunscreen when you go out there.
• 45:48
  Dr. Rand McClain: And then you get the best of both worlds.
• 45:50
  Philip Pape: Yeah, good point.
• 45:50
  Philip Pape: Good point. All right, let's turn to peptides. This is something I don't know as much about as I want to read in your book learning about it. So have a collaboration with someone she's opening an aesthetics studio, where they're going to offer peptides, so it's starting to learn about it. You said that 10% of pharmaceuticals are based on peptides and proteins.
• 46:09
  Philip Pape: Creatine peptides, yeah, I didn't I wasn't even aware of that. Of course, I take that every day all anybody who lives should be taking their creatine.
• 46:18
  Dr. Rand McClain: While it was that long with beta alanine?
• 46:22
  Philip Pape: Yes, which is often found in pre workouts along with like L citrulline. And what's the other one betaine, I think are the big three but beta alanine, that's a reason being is because
• 46:31
  Dr. Rand McClain: you're going to extend your time to exhaustion by three to five seconds, minimally with the creatine, and that creates an acidic environment that the Beta Alanine will bounce.
• 46:42
  Philip Pape: Okay, well, glad I took my Alinea in the pre workout. So there we go. knew there was a reason for it. So yeah, anyway, peptides. So there's a whole bunch of them.
• 46:52
  Philip Pape: Even in your book, you list just just a wide variety growth hormone, gonadotropin releasing peptides, there's some for libido, there's collagen, in layman's terms, give us a crash course in peptides, and then how they work in the body.
• 47:06
  Dr. Rand McClain: So peptides, really it's a matter of semantics. Because depending upon how you talk, most agree that you know 50 Or more as a protein, fewer than 50 or fewer, I guess I should say is a peptide. But all they are you know that you got these amino acids in the certain structure.
• 47:25
  Dr. Rand McClain: And I liken it to tinker toys, right where if you remember that theory was still around, but you have played with
• 47:31
  Philip Pape: them in the 80s. So yeah,
• 47:33
  Dr. Rand McClain: structure you want. And just one leg in different one extra post with a another knob at the end, we'll call it which can change the way it works dramatically or slightly depending upon the peptide and the way it works once it reaches the cytosol going inside the cell or even into the nucleus. So that's fascinating. I mean, of all the things and there are a bunch of things, I shouldn't pick one or the other. But that's one at the top of list is exciting, because think of all the different constructs you can make. With a tinker toy set. If you have enough tinker toys, right, you go on, literally, you know, infinitely almost literally. And just by tinkering with one of these, or two of them or whatever ligations it changes the way it works, we have the ability to test now if you look at that with in combination with stem cells, where we can grow organs, we grow liver, we can grow a pancreas, we don't have to do the human testing or even the animal testing, we go straight to human testing, not in vivo, but in vitro with these and just start throwing and of course any bringing AI right to okay, if this structure does this baseball, we know that all the
• 48:46
  Philip Pape: some moreas if we
• 48:47
  Dr. Rand McClain: make one of these, what happens and we can really advance pharmacology immensely. And I'm throwing it into pharmacology because again, yeah, a lot of drugs are based on insulin being the classic example. And with that, we not only come up with structures that can enhance the ability of insulin, we've already done it we have different ways. But you know what we want to be able to do for example, we want to have a long acting insulin Well, we have those now. Lantis versus, you know, the standard is and we can do that with all different kinds of peptides, presumably, and make life a lot easier. We can make them some we might want to make shorter acting so they're less dangerous. So that's a huge field and you know, you pick what you're trying to change. We can come up with a peptide for it. I mean, you know, you mentioned the list, we have things that treat everything from libido, right. I remember growing up, I say growing up I get I'm 60 but we had this thing the Spanish Fly Oh, we give somebody extra libido. We have it
• 49:52
  Philip Pape: as a PT 141 PT 141.
• 49:52
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 49:55
  Dr. Rand McClain: And then we had this superb example. One leg n different Literally one, and it's a great tanning agent.
• 50:04
  Philip Pape: Wow. Okay, this is this is fascinating stuff. Yeah.
• 50:08
  Dr. Rand McClain: And you go on and on about, you know, for the brain several isin for anxiety and some call it a new tropic cymax, there are different peptides for just about anybody's desire that they want to change.
• 50:23
  Philip Pape: So at the end of the day, you're saying it's just a, it's just a protein with fewer than 50, maybe 50 amino acids,
• 50:29
  Dr. Rand McClain: it rarely is just a it's a line they draw. So it's a matter of space. But basically, yeah, they're their amino acids. It certainly has a certain structure. And just, I think the the general agreement is that if it's 50 or fewer, it's called a peptide, although there's some disagreement there.
• 50:45
  Dr. Rand McClain: Who cares? It's it
• 50:46
  Philip Pape: doesn't matter.
• 50:46
  Philip Pape: Yeah, just so Okay, so then practicing from practical purposes, then what, you know, if you had someone come in, and what, when would they be a good candidate for peptides? What kind of potential issue or goal that they're trying to achieve?
• 51:00
  Philip Pape: Maybe if they don't have symptoms yet? Going back to your previous statement? And then what would that look like? Are these you know, pills that they take injectables? How long they take them? Like, just give us some an idea? So peptides?
• 51:15
  Dr. Rand McClain: Almost invariably, to get the best effects? Certainly, you're gonna have to inject them because the stomach acid will otherwise denature the structure very quickly. So although you know, you have studies, for example, to say, Okay, well, yeah, well, that's why you can't take college and get benefit. And yet we find that yeah, you can take as little as three grams a college and get some benefit. So the stomach doesn't completely torched it somehow, some way. Or maybe it comes back together for some reason we don't know about.
• 51:46
  Dr. Rand McClain: But as a general rule, you have to inject these peptides to get them to work. And, you know, that's usually done with a very small needle and has some needle close to the units 31 gauge as opposed to acupuncture needles, 36 gauge, the higher the number, the smaller the bore of the deal.
• 52:07
  Philip Pape: Is right into your stomach, or thigh or something like that, right.
• 52:11
  Dr. Rand McClain: Sorry, yeah.
• 52:11
  Dr. Rand McClain: Occasionally, it can be done internationally as well. But most of the peptides, I think people just kind of get in the habit of doing a separate ASC.
• 52:22
  Dr. Rand McClain: Sometimes for good reason, because you want the uptake to be slower. Sometimes it was to fashion this, I'm flushing with certain of these. But So your question was, what circumstances would you use it, it would be really up to your goals. Now.
• 52:38
  Dr. Rand McClain: There's some that use insulin where you have a disease state, but let's say for the Masters athlete, I call this right, more difficult to put on muscle mass.
• 52:45
  Dr. Rand McClain: We use thymosin beta four, for example, which helps with regeneration of acting within the sarcomere, which was writing this
• 52:54
  Philip Pape: down, hold on.
• 52:54
  Philip Pape: Okay,
• 52:59
  Dr. Rand McClain: well, it also there's another way, slightly different TV 500. But yeah, I mean, again, the sky's the limit, it just depends upon what it is you're trying to work on.
• 53:12
  Dr. Rand McClain: There's typically some sort of peptide that works. And the funny thing is, it's not cut and dried, like you might expect.
• 53:21
  Dr. Rand McClain: And some works the same for everybody pretty much right? And he takes much of it, you remove too much glucose and you can die. And some are riskier than others, but then you can have somebody that uses almost forget, it starts with a D and I'm not gonna remember this one, but it's used to help people sleep and some people swear by it. Some people didn't do a doggone thing. Some x is an anxiolytic. Some people swear by it doesn't do anything for others. So, you know, is that dose related? We've experimented, I have haven't noticed that it makes a difference because those just some people work with certain structures and some people don't. So Moreland is a classic example. Have you heard of some Orlan? So growth hormone releasing hormone if you take the first 29 amino acids, it's what we call Sermorelin. We used to be branded as jerith Dr.
• 54:10
  Dr. Rand McClain: Richard Walker's involved in all that. And it acts the same way you injected very short acting, but it makes it makes your body produce more growth hormone.
• 54:21
  Dr. Rand McClain: That's what it's for. Well, there's a small but significant percentage of those people that when they do it, they get incredible somnolence such that they have to back down on the dose or survive the next you know, morning to noon on espresso is interesting, in that
• 54:40
  Philip Pape: it's a genetic it's a genetic difference. Like if we pegged some of these down to someone's DNA.
• 54:45
  Dr. Rand McClain: Not that I'm aware of. I don't think we've gotten into that kind of nuance to share but eventually we can if we do enough study in particular if you employ AI out okay, there, is there a genetic component there is it is it genetics, is it EPA genetics involved? Is it a combination of oh, they do this with that? I mean, that's what makes us Yeah, that's crazy. Where AI comes in, that's changed the subject. But you know, it's in the news recently, right?
• 55:11
  Philip Pape: Yeah. A lot. We can talk AI for sure.
• 55:15
  Dr. Rand McClain: I don't think we should slow down one bit, I think we might take certain precautions with, you know, using AI and military installations and things that can, you know, drum up, you know, the old, what was it? How in
• 55:27
  Philip Pape: 1000? Yeah, otherwise,
• 55:28
  Dr. Rand McClain: this was it, you know, in medicine, because, you know, sky's the limit is what we can find.
• 55:33
  Philip Pape: Exactly, yeah, that that is a huge, huge area of potential is in medicine. You were talking earlier about Dr.
• 55:39
  Philip Pape: Google and I at the time, I thought, Oh, what about Dr.
• 55:42
  Philip Pape: Chat, GBT? Because I've tried using it for things like, you know, I had a little rash on my wrist or something. And I'm, and I'm like, you know, what could this be? And it says, I'm not a doctor. But here's what the evidence showed, you know, of course, they've got all the Cya in there. Well, speaking of the genetics, just real quick, do you do genetic testing at your practice? Yeah, yeah,
• 56:04
  Dr. Rand McClain: I'm a big fan of it. And also, epigenetic testing, you know, the DNA methylation testing, can give you a lot of good feedback as to what you're doing the results of what you're doing. Okay. Is it helping, you know, is it furthering your age, your biological age? Or is it helping you be younger for longer? So, yeah, a big proponent of that, while telomeres I don't think are is helpful. I'd also like to use those for aging. Yeah, I guess it's also helpful. It's just not as pinpoint. As as you might say, as DNA methylation, we get pretty precise with DNA methylation. But it's also nice to look at your genome period, not this the epigenome to see, okay, what is my propensity, let's say, God forbid, I've got essential hypertension, I've done everything, right. I can't figure it out. But I've got hypertension, or it's renal artery stenosis, and I don't want to get treatment for what drug will work better for me or best for me. We have the relationships mapped out there with certain drugs, well, you know, or certain categories?
• 57:13
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, you'll do better with, you know, a diuretic than an ACE inhibitor. That, to me is fascinating, too. Because, you know, especially with critical care, you don't waste time trying something that may or may not work based upon your genes.
• 57:28
  Philip Pape: That's fascinating.
• 57:28
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, this is this is incredible. I mean, you you touch on a lot of this in your book, I don't know, I didn't read it in detail, but eyebrows, because I just got it a few days ago, I'm assuming the peptides, you go into some detail about the types and what they're what they're for, in the book,
• 57:46
  Dr. Rand McClain: you know, unlike some of the other books, and, you know, one just came out from a guy who I'm a big fan of Peter to outlive. It his tells more of a story, I think, and fewer not gonna say there are action items that I tried to go into, for better or for worse details as to, you know, more of those options, you know, not just oh, peptides can do this.
• 58:12
  Dr. Rand McClain: But here's some peptides, as you know, here's a smattering of the peptides. And here's the dose and and, you know, here are the pharmacies that I recommend, because you don't want to be doing. I don't suggest that use, you know, the black market in places that aren't qualified to do so. Yeah, when I was 20, I might have done differently. But again, you know, I'm not 20. And I don't recommend it. Do as I say, not as I did it. So yeah, I try and present that in all areas where at the end of the chapter, there's some call to action items.
• 58:42
  Philip Pape: Yep. Yeah, no, I personally appreciate that style of book. It's like a combination, very detailed reference and stories and anecdotes, and it has a positive, I think, positive, optimistic tone to it, which I can appreciate. It's not doom and gloom. It's here's how you can take control. So just wrap up with a couple last questions, if you don't mind. You've you've probably seen a lot happening in a career, a lot of advancements, we talked about a few of them earlier. And you even said that some of the industry is just catching up, like you're probably ahead of where a lot of conventional facilities might be. Give us the inside scoop like what are what is coming up maybe that people haven't heard of what's cutting edge? What's out there that's being developed? I guess, besides AI and what we've already talked about?
• 59:28
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, again, kind of a difficult question to answer it this way with all the things we have the areas like we haven't even touched on gene editing or stem cells. I think what is going to be the most fascinating and one of the most powerful things is going to sound kind of anticlimactic. But if you think about it's going to be hugely powerful is the communications between the various specialties, the various disciplines. What I mean by that as we talk Some a little bit earlier where, okay, we'll use stem cells to grow organs, okay?
• 1:00:05
  Dr. Rand McClain: And AI to develop the right peptides, combine all that to come up with a faster, better working peptide or a drug we could use any drugs doesn't have to be limited to peptides, what we've been lacking, and it's partly because of the structure, it's not a conspiracy thing, but the NIH funds projects, okay.
• 1:00:26
  Dr. Rand McClain: And if you're a researcher and someone wants to advance the sport, so to speak, you're stuck in a lot while you're certainly governed by money. And there's only a limited amount of private funding the NIH, will I forget what the stats are, but maybe they'll fund maybe one in five, if that's correct. But you also have to be swinging with the same balls, in the sense that if you're pursuing something other than, you know, amyloid plaque for Alzheimer's, well, you're not gonna get funded. Well, that limits us. I mean, yeah, you're shaking like that. You don't have to think about everything.
• 1:00:59
  Dr. Rand McClain: What?
• 1:01:02
  Philip Pape: So we're just not surprised, though.
• 1:01:06
  Dr. Rand McClain: All these other areas, and I shouldn't sound purposely actually, because we have screwed up on that. We're now finding that that's not that look, I guess the cause it's really more of a reaction to something that's going on. And we've wasted a lot of time and research money.
• 1:01:22
  Dr. Rand McClain: Okay. So anyway, without going too far afield, because you know, I am an eternal optimist.
• 1:01:24
  Dr. Rand McClain: Focus on the positive, we're going to the future is combining these things and finding groups like one of my peers, Gary, Michaelson, milking, milking Foundation, and UCLA, they've all gotten together and made it so that they're going to change the way it's funded. So that if you have some, pardon my French but wild acid idea as to how to fix the problem of Alzheimer's, we're gonna say, sounds good, and you're going to make a presentation. But here's the funding for it. Not only that, okay. The upshot of that is also that you're not going to be sitting there going like, Okay, this is my information. Okay? If I let it go, I'm not going to get funded next year, because someone else is going to run with that ball. No, you're going to still get funded by these groups, okay, because that's the approach we want to take. And we're going to share that information with everybody else.
• 1:02:23
  Dr. Rand McClain: So that this hand knows what this hand is doing. To me. I know it doesn't sound like souks, too excited. But if you think about it, that's one of the most exciting things about the what we're going from here is that we're going to start communicating with one another.
• 1:02:35
  Dr. Rand McClain: Yeah. She's on a logarithmic changes in our knowledge base.
• 1:02:41
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I mean, that's open source that's crowdsourcing. I mean, you see it in the research in the, in the academic world where they have like the Open Access papers, and you have these open databases and all researchers, I mean, all of that stuff is great. Like, the more we share, the more we all benefit. So I'm with you there, man. Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  Dr. Rand McClain: Yes, we've been hamstrung because of money.
• 1:03:01
  Dr. Rand McClain: And that's a Romney. Excuse.
• 1:03:04
  Philip Pape: Yeah, no, because it's a perverse incentive. But let's, let's get together
• 1:03:07
  Dr. Rand McClain: and make it a crummy excuse, you know?
• 1:03:10
  Philip Pape: Well, let's, let's end on one more note here. This is a question I ask all guests, you can't get out of it. And that is one question. Did you wish I had asked and what is your answer? Well, that's a good one.
• 1:03:26
  Dr. Rand McClain: What would I want a phrase like more like, Okay, if you're a patient, what should you ask me by now? Wow.
• 1:03:35
  Dr. Rand McClain: And you gotta be stumped. Mean.
• 1:03:35
  Dr. Rand McClain: We're, yeah. There's so much out there. I don't know what you know, there's so many things you could ask. I mean, I could go on talking about this.
• 1:03:50
  Philip Pape: There's so many topics in your book, I didn't even get to rank and
• 1:03:53
  Dr. Rand McClain: run them out for an indefinite amount of time, at least until he asked to eat again. But um, yeah, what to ask me. I don't know that maybe.
• 1:03:59
  Dr. Rand McClain: Is there? Is there a favorite area I have? You know, that's a kind of a, whatever. Want to go for it. Dan questions. I'm just trying to get out of it, because it hit me that
• 1:04:12
  Philip Pape: you're not the only one. This seems to be a stumper.
• 1:04:14
  Philip Pape: I think it was sent me to.
• 1:04:16
  Dr. Rand McClain: One of the things we haven't talked about is that my mentioned is stem cells. Stem cells seem to be stem in new cells, which is something I mentioned in the book. new cells are different than stem cells and that they don't cause cancer, they can cross the blood brain barrier.
• 1:04:30
  Dr. Rand McClain: There as are more powerful than stem cells. And until we get some of these other things together, and it further medicines to the point where we can do it like Star Trek, you know, we know everything that generates the perfect injection of stem cells provide a great bridge stem and new cells until we figure out some stuff because you know, I took a monkey could do it because stem cells know how to hone in on the area that needs the help. So you could give These stem immune cells intravenously, and with some general caveats, like okay, the way is perfused, a lot of these are gonna go to the ones first, but they know where to go. And if you have damage from a recent or even an old MI, heart attack, those cells go in there and make some repairs. That's fascinating. And that gives us a lot of time for those that have been injured or will be injured.
• 1:05:26
  Dr. Rand McClain: Until we come up with even greater advancements in medicines that can dodge those from the start. or protect us even more quickly.
• 1:05:35
  Philip Pape: I'm all in I'm all in doctor. And I mean, all this new stuff a takes on something that's called a biologic that wouldn't have existed as little as five years ago for a condition and it's just crazy how they can target stuff. So amazing. This has been a fun conversation. Where can people find out more about you? I mentioned the book. Well, where do you want them to go?
• 1:05:54
  Dr. Rand McClain: Well, our website you know, we have a website PSR med.com. Don't ask me I came up with as an old story. But Papa Sierra Romeo med.com. Like to keep a lot of pertinent information up there.
• 1:06:04
  Dr. Rand McClain: Like to stay in touch. through Instagram, I find that to be pretty cool through the PR people that I've got to know, because I can answer questions without one. And then post some tidbits, you know, the world lives in those, what, minute, two minute and a half. We're up on LinkedIn, and I think Twitter and Facebook, all those. So you know, any of those, I guess
• 1:06:29
  Philip Pape: I'll throw I'll throw it in there. Don't worry.
• 1:06:30
  Philip Pape: And I'll connect, connect with the folks as well, just to make sure it's all good. And this has been a fascinating conversation.
• 1:06:37
  Philip Pape: I wasn't sure you know what we'd get into and we covered a lot of tangents that were a lot of fun.
• 1:06:39
  Philip Pape: And you were not long winded in any way. This is this was a needed conversation. I'm sure the listener is gonna get a lot out of it. So thank you, Dr. Ram for coming on the show.
• 1:06:49
  Dr. Rand McClain: Thank you. I appreciate you having me. Thank you very much.
• 1:06:53
  Philip Pape: If you've been inspired by today's interview, and are ready to take action and build momentum on your health and fitness journey, just schedule a free 30 minute nutrition momentum call with me using the link in my show notes.
• 1:07:05
  Philip Pape: I promise not to sell or pitch you on anything, but I will help you gain some perspective and guidance so we can get you on the right track toward looking and feeling your best