Latest / Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast / What Does The “Face Of Boxing” Mean?

Transcript

What Does The “Face Of Boxing” Mean? · Big Dog Lukie Boxing Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Tonight it's the Midweek Boxing Show and as always we get an expert in.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: This week we get Tom Eaton.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Tom, how you doing?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Really good, Luke.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yourself?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Eh, it's okay.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting by.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go into the big thing.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Pat Brown fought.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of Americans didn't really pay attention.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big deal in the UK.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you give the cliff notes for those that might have missed this bout
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: and why the John Hedges fight was so consequential.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: So Pat Brown, I was at the fight on Saturday.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Pat Brown equaled the record as the fastest British cruiserweight champion,
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: getting it in his seventh pro fight.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: He was an Olympian and he got the bronze medal at, I think it was at Paris.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he's just quite a big personality around Manchester.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a general feel like he really could kick on and grow a fan base.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to keep comparing people to Ricky Atten
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: because there's only ever going to be one Ricky Atten.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: But people want to put him in that kind of mold and build Manchester Boxing back up again.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's a new arena there.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: And they're hoping that that can sort of be his home now.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: He went there for the first time on Saturday,
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: albeit, you know, half full black curtain sort of thing.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, he's got to start somewhere.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Seventh fight, long way to go.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: They're a good start for him.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think of the matchup going in?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Going into it, you know, John Hedges is capable.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: He was definitely capable of beating him.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: People thought beforehand there's a chance here that John Hedges could spring the upset.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Me personally,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Hedges probably lacked the power to really do anything too consequential.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Pat Brown,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say he's there to be hit,
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: but that's the area where, you know, he needs to improve.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think he keeps his hands quite low and he's there.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think an elite level cruiserweight would put him away despite what
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think Hedges were the style to beat him.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a southpaw, a bit awkward.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Six foot six, quite big a cruiserweight.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, for me,
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just felt like Brown would get the one shot in there,
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: the closet show, and that's what he did.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it also seemed like the conditioning of Hedges, he was a little bit like a guy cruising.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: On the David Hay scale of like, let's shoot this guy to the moon, where do we put him?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a bit of a tricky one really for Pat Brown
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: because I've heard little whispers that they want to accelerate him
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: through cruiserweight really quick because they're eyeing up going to heavyweight.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So whether or not you push him straight into the world level fights now because it's
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: a bit of a race against the clock as to whether
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: or not he can keep making cruiserweight, I don't know.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you can do that now or if you keep defending the British title for a bit.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: It just depends really on how long he can keep making cruiserweight.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But for me,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I would say he's definitely at least British level already at the moment,
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: to be honest.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would say he's like a top 20 maybe on the fringes of that.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would probably not defend the British title if I were Pat Brown now.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's already won it in record time.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't need to do too much else with it.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you can get him a fringe world level kind of opponent,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: he's still a very big jump up from John Edgers.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he needs to slowly progress.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I reckon you can give him...
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Five, six fights, and maybe the sixth fight would be a world title fight.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good timeline.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: The fair thing is it seems like cruiserweight is very top-heavy.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: You got two guys, Benavidez and Jayapetaya, and then a bunch of dudes.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think you could put them in a room, and I'm not sure I'd know who they are.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some can fight, some can't.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a positive that maybe some of those fringe contenders can fit
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: the mold based on the rankings.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one name I had in mind was Mastanac after the way that Vidal Reilly beat him.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Vidal Reilly,
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: outboxed him for probably the first 10 rounds and then maybe slowed down
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: he put Pat Brown in there,
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: William,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: and he might be able to stop Mastanac and that sort of tees up
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: a nice all-British world title fight potentially with Vidal Reilly,
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: depending on what the IBF do.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing half-baked research, so I disappeared.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: But my guy, Zorro, was who came to my mind.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: Love a little Zorro from Jaya Apataya, Highlight Real Fame.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Seems like another guy that could just bounce out the page and end up on a poster.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, he's got that history of being with someone like Apataya.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: There was another one I can't think of top made now.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Jack Massa.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: I like Jack Massey for that because Jack Massey, I think he's been a European champion now.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's fought for the world title against Oppattaya and he's a tough guy
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: so he'll probably give Pat Brown a lot of rounds.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: The only issue with that is of course he's with Zufa but he lost to Shev Clark
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: so I don't know if he's staying with Zufa or if that's going to end any time soon
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: but I think Jack Massey's from round Manchester as well I believe so
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: if you did Pat Brown against Jack Massey you've got
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: A former world title challenger there that could potentially fight for
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: a British title in that fight as well if he got another win
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: under his belt beforehand.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a nice interim between British and world level for him.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now let's do a little bit more Manchester.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on with this Ricky Hatton situation?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: I am a little out on it.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Can I get some boots on the ground explanation for what's kind of going on and kind
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: of the tragic nature it seems like from some cryptic social media posts?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not massively clued up on it.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think you'd need to speak to Craig probably,
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: who's brought it all to attention of Boxing Twitter.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But it just sounds like people might be dipping their hand into
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: the Ricky Hamilton Foundation pot at the moment without really being very clear
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: about what's going on.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: You can't accuse anyone of it,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: but there's just not enough,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: at the moment,
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: there's not enough information regarding where all the money's going to.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure there's a reasonable answer for it.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: But it just needs to come out really.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just need a little more transparency.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's go over to this week where Johnny Fisher is fighting.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a Zufa Boxing debut.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: My interpretation is he's the big guy in the bar.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of where he fits in.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the dad's selling tickets.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: He's the big guy in the bar.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Skills are optional.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a lovable kind of feature to it.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then he got knocked out by Dave Allen and the rebuild.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think of this matchup?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: The Michael Priaton, I'll give my analysis.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: He looks just kind of like a basketball player,
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: dude, kind of, you know, not probably going to keep you off.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: He fought better competition,
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: but it screams like if Fisher's going to have a successful debut,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: which you should do when you sign with a promoter,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: this is the type of guy you would.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a little bit of the backstory you see as the storyline for Fisher going
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: into this as well as this matchup.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, really, I mean, Fisher was, he was liked by a lot of people.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: He still is liked by a lot of people.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's a good personality to have in boxing, I think.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's a bit of a laugh without being a genuine threat,
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think, to the major titles and probably really to the British title.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I can't see him getting the British title.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Even if he was without Zufa,
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he'd get the British title unless it was a real gimme fight.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, he's a good personality.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he had that Dave Allen fight.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember people beforehand were saying that they really worry for Dave Allen
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: in that fight, just for his health and stuff.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So the people that pretend that they never rated Johnny Fisher are wrong.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute, I got a call.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: People that presented they never rated Johnny Fisher were probably lying to you,
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: to be honest, because Dave Allen, I think, was maybe an 8-1 underdog in that fight.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know,
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: he definitely was a fancied guy at one point,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: but that Dave Allen fight really did expose a lot of things.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then to get done in the rematch,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: like he did,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: he sort of vindicated everything that everyone fought after the first fight.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he's done well to get a big Zufa contract,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: but if he's going to,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: If he's going to keep on selling tickets, he's going to have to keep on winning.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there's only so many times you can put Johnny Fisher in with some guy
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: where he's 1-20 to beat him and people keep buying tickets.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think he probably has this super debut now and then they put him into
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: a really competitive fight.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think this Saturday is going to be the competitive one that we want
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: to see for Johnny Fisher.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, a lot to unpack there.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is part of the reason he got signed,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: do you think, to help with ticket sales and viewership in the UK?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me, absolutely.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's the number one reason.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you look at the rest of the card, I mean,
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: if you were to just go off,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: book his odds, you know, most of the rest of the card are 50-50 fights.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then you look at the main event and he's 1-14, so minus 1,400.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's not really any competition in that fight.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: But then equally,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: you can't have Craig Richards against Hot Rod as the main event,
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: really, I don't think, because that's not going to sell many tickets.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or Cesar Mateo Tapia against my guy Luio Ruiz.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good fight, but I just don't think people are yearning for that fight.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who's the endgame boss for him?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, FA Ajogba?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think the heavyweight matchup is for Johnny Fisher?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably the route they're going down,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I reckon,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: because they've not got, you know, a real catalogue of heavyweights over at Zufa.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you could probably climb the ladder pretty quick with a few wins there.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And bring what would be a big show to the UK, I think, rather than having that anywhere else.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, maybe Ejagba's the one at the end of the road for him.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know if,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: the guys that you'd think Ejagba would be, I think, who else would be Zou for now?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Cerenko.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I would fancy Cerenko to beat Johnny Fisher.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's still a long way to go before you'd put Johnny Fisher
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: in conversation for a fight with Efi Ejagba.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Any hidden gems on the undercards for the crazy maniacal US fan that just wants
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: to watch boxing all day?
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's a guy now called, I forget his name properly, but I think it's Cruiserweight.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ignat is in a great fight.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's 18-0 and he's against, I think he's against a 6-0 Mexican who's got six knockouts.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably, from what I've been told, that's probably the fight of the night.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, there we go.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: You heard it here first.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of a Mexican, Pitbull Cruz had a dreadful fight this weekend.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: He did get a highlight reel knockout,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: but if you missed it, you probably won in terms of your time if you value it.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you care about any of this drama with just random people being thrown around
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: with Ryan Garcia?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is this fascinating with you?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: You get Terrence Crawford one week and Pitbull and all this.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's the perspective from Not in America?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because it feels like aggregators and And click heads are really liking it,
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: but I want to get the sentiment on a global stage.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's one of them, isn't it, where you think nothing's done until it's signed.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: And me, personally, I just try to ignore a lot of the noise until the fight's announced.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Ryan Garcia gets linked with every man and his dog, regardless of the last fight.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And now that he's beat Conor Ben, even more people want to fight him.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think he's going to get that nonstop.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But to be fair, I think he's got one fight left with Golden Boy, so...
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be surprised if he has a quick run out.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Pitbull Crew is a big name over in America, I think.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's not really a big name over here.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I reckon it's quite an easy touch,
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: probably, to run out his contract and then head into a big fight.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those contracts are tricky though because we never really get to look at a contract.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I always am scared to say those things.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: The thing I just don't like about the fight is we're not sure if Pitbull Cruz is
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: a proper 140 pounder.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I still have questions about where he sits on the world stage.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: He's coming off a good knockout win in a very ugly fight.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like, let's rush him to 147 for a big match with Brian Garcia.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess there's another part of me that goes, and my co-host said this too, Dakota.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why is Ryan calling out a bunch of guys that are not in welterweight?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're finally, we have some dudes in welterweight that are interesting.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like all the guys he's calling out aren't in his division.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a strange one.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a strange one.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's plenty of people at welterweight that make for a better fight than Pitbull.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But I think Pitbull in terms of being,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: low risk but high profile is probably up there for what you could get for Garcia at
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: the moment.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Especially on short notice if it's going to be in December.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's a bit of a weird one.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: He's a small guy, so he's a bit unorthodox, but he's very compact.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's definitely not well aware, though.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a strange one.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think he's going to be back by December.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just my gut feeling.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: I think the earliest we'd see is January and February.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think rumor heads are going to be loving the rumors from a week-to-week basis.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Final one, Japan has a huge card this weekend.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Takuma Inoue is taking on tension.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: I always say his name wrong, Suboi.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's his fourth fight, fighting for a belt.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then we got my sneaky one that I like, Nishita versus Sam Goodman.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is a hardcore boxing fan's treat, but there is pretty much no Western media coverage of this.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, only the nerds are saying it's a great fight.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like since Top Rank lost their deal, it's harder and harder to follow Japanese boxing.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And in general,
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think I can just say it's harder to follow boxing right now because it feels like
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: the good fights are few and far between.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And now we have one, but it feels like the pageantry isn't matching up to the fights.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested to see your perspective on this card.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a great card.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's just typical of Japanese boxing at the moment, isn't it?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Every time there's a big fight in Japan, the undercard is fantastic as well, it seems.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is actually on DAZN in the UK, so I'll be tuning in via DAZN for Sunday, but...
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely needs more coverage, Japanese boxing.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only way it's going to grow and people are going to be appeased
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: if they're wanting 50-50 fights.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's the place to look.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the more the zone can get that on their channels, the better, I think.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I think one of the main issues with boxing at the moment is
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: that people are more keen to see a big name fight in a guaranteed win than fight
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: a 50-50 between two guys that they don't necessarily know too much about.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think people could learn a lot from tuning into...
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: a Japanese card and learning about those guys and seeing that
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: the fighting game opponents, it's going to be a 50-50 fight.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the people you should be,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: giving attention to rather than the guys that are 1-20 to win fights
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: and just cruising to decisions.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, for me,
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: a card like that is so much more interesting than,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know, loads of big names on it in fights that are too one-sided.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that in the last four years we've kind of fallen in love
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: with famous fighters and prospects and contenders just don't really have
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: a home anymore and now without a lot of promoters running a lot of shows it's like
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: where do the prospects go to become a contender?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think the refreshing change of this,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: probably for myself and it sounds like for you,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: is you just get to see boxing matches.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like there's a quality control of the quality is this is
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: a world title level fight and it's going to be a good fight.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: You might not know anything,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: but it's probably worth your time rather than I feel like at least in America,
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: the approach is who are the two most famous guys?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: We swear boxing's relevant.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: We swear people tune in.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Look at how famous this guy is.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like this approach of how many famous people can we get on a card
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: as opposed to compelling fights people might want to share.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's the key issue, I think, at the moment.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: People need to watch 50-50 fights and learn about the guys in those fights.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next time they fight,
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: hopefully you'll tune in because you're a fan of them,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: especially at the lower weights.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: They don't get enough love.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: They never have done.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: But that's where so much skill is at the moment.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: You look at the bigger weight classes,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: there's not many stars in the sport really taking stuff over, I don't think.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: Pound for pound-wise now, You've got Benavidez in terms of that.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: The higher weights, heavy weights lacking that big star now.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't got someone to make you want to watch him every time they fight, I don't think.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Then you look at Inoue and what he's doing over in Japan and it's just
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: a completely different level.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You need to watch that because he fights regularly.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's had a bit of a year off, to be fair, this year.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: But if he defends his belt regularly,
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: takes on the best that he can fight, And you've got to commend him for that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the way that boxers should be doing it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: you look at people of years gone by that people keep referring to,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: like Marvin Aguilar saying, that's how a champion should be.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's how champions are at a lot of the lower weights.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to tune in and support them rather than the guys at the top of
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: the sport,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: the big names who are just picking and choosing opponents so they can keep the belt.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great insight.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think another thing is some of that stigma might be leaving.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Chocolatito was followed by Inouye, followed by Bam Rodriguez.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Seems like at the very least,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: fight fans at least have a familiarity with some of the most exceptional fighters,
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: and it just seems to happen generation after generation.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: My fear is Japan is on like this real amazing rise in terms of talent.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember 10 years ago,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: it felt like you got like a warrior guy who just got hit too much or you got
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: the finesse guy that Ray Beltran knocked out in a couple of rounds.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now you have these elite operators.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I guess my question now is, okay,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: it'll be on for where I live one in the morning and Totally not going
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: to watch it live.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people won't.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: What's the importance of the boxing writer to truly accurately depict fighters
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: in Japan if people aren't watching it on a global scale?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot to be said for that as well.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's a difficult climb at the moment,
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: boxing media,
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: because you are driven by,
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: similar to probably a lot of boxing related stuff in terms of the fights,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: you're really judged on the amount of views that your articles get.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the amount of attention stuff gets.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's hard to give too much focus to something that you know is only going
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: to attract the diehard boxing fans rather than the casual boxing fans
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: who you really want to reach because those are the guys who are going to build
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: the sport and grow the sport.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, the Japanese stuff needs more coverage in general.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people are starting to give it some attention on Twitter.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like if you go on Twitter now, you'll know when a big fight card is on in Japan.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think enough people are tuning in to watch it.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of the time, there's too many barriers to enter.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay the final one.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I have a love-hate relationship with the pound-for-pound list.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of like it because it makes people mad, and I just enjoy that.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just like seeing people frustrated about my opinion.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: But it seems like the importance of the pound for pound list and the inclusion
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: of interesting up and coming Japanese fighters might be the gateway for some people
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: to get into Japanese boxing.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like that's the thing as we go into like kind of more goofy boy boxing
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: and kind of fights that don't seem to make as much sense in terms of legacy.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts on like making sure that the world's represented in a pound
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: for pound list so that people can accurately assess what the top talent is?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's very important to distinguish between the pound for pound,
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: number one or top five and the face of boxing.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: people talk about the face of boxing so much these days and that is a term that's,
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know, getting really tiring to listen to.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you would say, I would probably say that Ryan Garcia could well be the face of boxing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: If not now, maybe next year.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: The way that he's going beyond boxing and people know who he is in America
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: and people in the UK really know who he is.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Without him really being a pound-for-pound fighter,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: you need to get the pound-for-pound guys correct and show the skills of
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: the true top 10.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: You look at Jesse Bam Rodriguez now,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: he's pretty much got an opportunity to move up two weight classes
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: to fight anyway off the back of his pound-for-pound credentials.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think if you get stuff like that right,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: it can create massive fights and massive attention on the lower weight classes.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I said last question, but you brought up the face of boxing.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to me,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: face of boxing is just a way to bring really,
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: really famous and relevant fighters into headlines or into topics
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: where they don't have the quite skills or accolades deserving.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, here's Ryan Garcia.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's really famous.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: He does the Twitch IRLs.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: He does all this stuff.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Famous people like him.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's like a celebrity.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you went to the Emmys, people would be like, it's the boxing guy.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And boxing, once again, boxing has this thing, especially America.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, we swear we're relevant.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: We swear people watch this.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oftentimes we're like, look, Ryan Garcia, people know who he is.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of people.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: He does young stuff, I swear.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, to me, face of boxing is a great way for...
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: The argument to take talent per se or achievement out of the conversation and
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: to kind of go to the argument I don't like.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: For music and movies, I never look at, man, that movie sold the most.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's my favorite movie.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: For music, I never looked at and go, man, the top selling record.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the top selling record is, but I'm sure it's not what I listen to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yet in boxing right now,
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: we're so eager to hand over the keys to someone that sells because I feel like
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: the sport is in a way where we're like, where are we going, bros?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, hit the nail on the head there, mate.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: it's just,
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: it's all about celebrity that face of boxing is just purely celebrity and it's a way
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: to sell a fight.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Dana White said it before the Conor Benn fight,
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know, Garcia wins this and he's the face of boxing.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, he's not really easy.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's beat Conor Bennu.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: He's a big name, but what's he done in the sport so far?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not much.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you can't just give someone that sort of, you know, praise for being a Conor Benn.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's got to go and to be the true face of boxing.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to start calling people the face of boxing,
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: you've got to be the guy who's been in there,
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: been a world champion for X amount of years, being XYZ opponents.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: you can't just slap a label on someone because they've got
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: the most social media followers and tell them the face of the box in.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll add to it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: You got to unify and create the captivating matchups that propel the sport upward
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: where people are consistently talking about it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean,
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: if he's going to get slapped the label,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: why don't I slap the label on Jake Paul,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: who follows a lot of the same metrics,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: you know, but because he's not a traditional boxing guy.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is the argument that gets scary is if we start playing these games and
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Where do they end, right?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: When we go analytics heads, like Jake Paul is building his own little resume.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually better than a lot of pro boxers' resumes early on.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: He's doing a lot of big deals, a lot of big numbers.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's quietly creeping right up there,
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: and if it's not about accomplishments, he's one of the top guys.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's definitely an argument for that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's definitely an argument for that.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's still an argument, really,
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: that Floyd Mayweather could be if he comes out of retirement because that's
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: the fight that everyone's going to tune into.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's about pay-per-view sales,
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Jake Paul,
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: he's the guy that if he's fighting,
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: even over here in the UK,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: if Jake Paul's fighting,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: people are speaking to me in the pub saying, oh, Jake Paul's on tonight.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they won't be saying that about maybe, I don't know, Daniel Dubois-Wardley.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: They won't even mention it.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: So Jake Paul's definitely got an argument.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: As tragic as that is for boxing, he's definitely in the conversation.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I also think that like Canelo's not done,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: but there's this sentiment that like we want a new era.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like we're like we're done.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a sentiment of even if Canelo's the face of boxing,
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: we'd like something new because it's getting this is like going on
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit too long.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's also kind of weird.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's not many that could sell tickets like Canelo,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know, like he did against Billy Joe Saunders.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: it was a few years ago and he's probably done another couple of stadiums since then
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: that I can't remember.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: He did John Ryder.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no one sells that amount of tickets really in Boxing Bar.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Canelo's still, I reckon, now.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like that fight's headed to Vegas that he's got within Billy
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: after what's going on in Saudi Arabia.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll probably see even more proof that Canelo Alvarez is still one of
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: the main guys in the sport.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: And if he comes out on top,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: he could kickstart a bit of something again there because super middleweight,
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people at Super Middleweight that I don't think Canelo will fight,
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: but there's also a lot of people at Super Middleweight who will be a big,
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: big fight for Canelo.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hot Take Alley, King Rye calls out Canelo for face of boxing after the fight if he wins?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: Could be, could be.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: he's seen Crawford do it,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: and that could even tempt Crawford into a fight as well if he comes out on top of
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: that one.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see that.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: That would be really cool.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'd actually be more excited for that than the fight.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: And Billy Canelo, before you get out the door, what are your thoughts on it?
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's a tricky one.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely a tricky one.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's too many uncertainties, isn't there, with Canelo.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: It looked,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know, to me,
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: the more damning performance was actually not the Crawford fight,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: but I fought against William Scull.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was absolutely shocking, Canelo.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: I thought he couldn't cut the ring off, and he was just there to be hit.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually think he probably lost that fight to William Scull.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then he went up against Crawford.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote the skull fight off as he took his eye off the ball because he's not up for it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then he just goes and does it again against Crawford.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully for him, Billy's not that kind of fighter.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's not a mover.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to try and stay in the pocket, stay on his feet.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if Canelo's still got punch power, then you'd fancy him to win the close exchanges.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: But he's not knocked anyone out now since he knocked Caleb Plant out, which was five years ago.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is a tricky one.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: It just depends what Canelo's got left in the tank.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe it's one of them, though, where,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: if it goes to the cards, there's almost no chance they'll give that to Mbili.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So Mbili's going to know that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to be pushing the pace.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really am flip-flopping between, flip-flopping either, which way I'm going to go.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll go for the upset then.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'll go for Mbili.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'll go the opposite.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I think that Billy has that style that plays into what Canelo can do, slip shots, load up.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think he's going to have success against movers.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's going to be taking on my guy Ulysses Iglesias.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's going to be taking on anybody that's not going to be standing
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: in front of him for the near future.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's going to be very careful with picks there, I think.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to be fair,
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: if he beats Mbili,
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: his next WBC mandatory would be Lester Martinez, which is Crawford's coach as well.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot his name.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Bomac.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Bomac, yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another fight that sells, isn't it?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And Lester Martinez is probably someone who's going to stand in front of him too,
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: so I wouldn't be surprised if that fight happens.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it sounds like Shiraz is next, and Shiraz ain't going to move either.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, we'll see if that happens or not after what's been going on last few days.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot to talk about.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything I should contextualize with Shiraz?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't ask you about that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a British thing.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: I just kind of assume that in this modern era,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: fighters are devaluing titles because they're just saying the money matters more
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: than a belt now.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not a nice situation for Shiraz.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the thing that frustrates me and probably a lot of British boxing fans is
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: that we actually do believe Shiraz could have beaten him.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a situation where you've been mandated to fight someone
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: and you don't fancy it at all and people are thinking,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: well, you've ducked him for that reason.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he's actually ducked him to protect his own...
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's actually ducked him to protect his own undefeated record, I think, to be honest.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: But more so the value of his undefeated record and what that will do for
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: a Canelo fight or a move to Zufa, which is being rumoured.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, he should actually have his undefeated record.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bradley Skeet probably beat him back in the day.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then Kyle Sadam has almost definitely beat him.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So he's very fortunate to have that undefeated record.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And now, in my opinion, too.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: To drop your belt in order to make sure you've still got that for a Canelo fight.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a poor move.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's something that's rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, where can people follow your writing?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: So my writing's over on BoxingNewsOnline.com and in Boxing News Magazine.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: My social media is TommyIn73 if you want to drop us a follow.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on, Luke.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Much appreciated, Matt.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right on.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to you soon.