Latest / Deep Transformation / When Soul, World & God Became Separate: The Loss, the Paradox & the Promise of Integration

Transcript

When Soul, World & God Became Separate: The Loss, the Paradox & the Promise of Integration · Deep Transformation

0:00
Welcome
0:00
to
0:00
our
0:01
last
0:01
episode
0:02
of
0:02
the
0:02
A.
0:02
H.
0:02
Almaas
0:03
Wisdom
0:03
Series
0:04
where
0:04
we
0:04
explore
0:05
the
0:05
last
0:05
chapter
0:06
of
0:06
Hameed's
0:07
masterful
0:07
work,
0:08
the
0:08
Inner
0:08
Journey
0:09
Home.
0:09
Here
0:09
we
0:09
investigate
0:10
triad
0:11
of
0:11
the
0:11
soul,
0:12
the
0:12
world
0:12
and
0:13
God
0:13
and
0:14
how
0:14
their
0:14
separation
0:14
was
0:15
a
0:15
step
0:15
necessary
0:16
in
0:16
our
0:16
cultural,
0:17
scientific
0:17
and
0:17
spiritual
0:18
evolution.
0:19
In
0:19
this
0:19
conversation
0:20
we
0:20
bring
0:21
it
0:21
all
0:21
back
0:21
home.
0:26
Welcome
0:27
to
0:27
Deep
0:27
transformation
0:28
Self,
0:29
Society,
0:29
Spirit,
0:30
Life
0:31
enhancing
0:31
paradigm
0:32
rattling
0:32
conversations
0:33
with
0:34
cutting
0:34
edge
0:34
thinkers,
0:35
contemplatives
0:36
and
0:36
activists.
0:36
With
0:37
Dr.
0:37
Roger
0:37
Walsh
0:38
and
0:38
John
0:38
Dupuy.
0:42
I'm
0:42
Roger
0:43
Walsh
0:43
and
0:43
our
0:44
co
0:44
host
0:44
is
0:44
John
0:44
Dupuy.
0:45
And
0:45
today
0:46
we
0:46
are
0:46
delighted
0:47
to
0:47
be
0:48
continuing
0:48
the
0:49
A.
0:49
H.
0:49
Almaas
0:50
Wisdom
0:50
Series.
0:51
This
0:51
is
0:51
dialogue
0:52
number
0:52
19
0:53
in
0:53
which
0:53
we
0:54
are
0:54
exploring
0:55
with
0:55
Hameed
0:55
Ali,
0:56
whose
0:56
pen
0:56
name
0:57
is
0:57
A.
0:57
H.
0:57
Almaas,
0:59
the
0:59
overview
1:00
of
1:00
his
1:01
work
1:01
which
1:02
is
1:02
the
1:02
basis
1:02
of
1:03
the
1:03
Diamond
1:03
Approach
1:04
and
1:04
the
1:05
Ridhwan
1:06
School
1:07
as
1:07
laid
1:07
out
1:08
in
1:09
one
1:09
of
1:09
his
1:09
magnificent
1:10
books,
1:11
perhaps
1:11
the
1:11
centerpiece
1:12
because
1:12
it
1:12
really
1:13
lays
1:13
out
1:13
the
1:14
foundation
1:14
of
1:14
his
1:14
work,
1:15
the
1:15
Inner
1:16
Journey
1:17
Home.
1:17
The
1:17
soul's
1:18
realization
1:19
of
1:19
the
1:20
unity
1:20
of
1:20
reality.
1:21
John
1:21
and
1:21
I
1:21
have
1:22
been
1:22
just
1:22
awed
1:23
as
1:23
we
1:23
worked
1:24
our
1:24
way
1:24
through
1:24
this
1:24
book
1:25
and
1:25
today
1:26
we're
1:26
actually
1:26
coming
1:27
to
1:27
the
1:28
final
1:28
chapter,
1:29
chapter
1:29
24,
1:30
the
1:30
separation
1:31
of
1:31
soul,
1:32
God
1:32
and
1:33
world.
1:34
But
1:34
don't
1:34
worry,
1:35
this
1:35
is
1:35
not
1:35
the
1:35
end
1:36
of
1:36
the
1:36
Age
1:36
Wellness
1:37
Wisdom
1:37
series.
1:40
There
1:40
is
1:41
more
1:41
Hameed.
1:41
There's
1:42
always
1:42
more
1:42
with
1:43
Hameed.
1:43
He
1:43
hasn't
1:43
run
1:44
out
1:44
of
1:44
wisdom
1:44
so
1:45
far.
1:45
So
1:45
we're
1:45
gone,
1:46
right?
1:47
Yeah,
1:47
but
1:48
today
1:48
is
1:49
a
1:49
beautiful
1:50
change
1:50
in
1:50
focus
1:51
because
1:52
the
1:52
Inner
1:52
Journey
1:53
Home
1:54
primarily
1:54
focuses
1:55
on
1:56
the
1:56
soul's
1:57
development
1:58
from
1:58
infancy
1:59
through
1:59
egoic
2:00
stages
2:01
to
2:01
beginning
2:01
realization
2:02
of
2:02
its
2:03
true
2:03
nature
2:04
to
2:04
ultimate
2:04
union
2:05
with
2:06
and
2:06
as
2:06
true
2:07
nature.
2:07
But
2:07
in
2:08
this
2:08
final
2:08
chapter,
2:09
Amid
2:09
steps
2:10
back
2:10
and
2:10
looks
2:10
at
2:10
the
2:11
larger
2:12
cultural
2:12
picture
2:13
and
2:14
historical
2:15
evolution
2:16
of
2:16
consciousness
2:17
and
2:18
points
2:18
to
2:18
ways
2:18
in
2:19
which
2:19
that
2:19
displays
2:20
intriguing
2:21
parallels
2:22
to
2:22
the
2:23
individual
2:23
development
2:24
of
2:24
consciousness.
2:25
Here
2:26
we're
2:26
taking
2:26
a
2:26
different.
2:27
We're
2:27
stepping
2:28
back.
2:28
And
2:29
you
2:30
point
2:30
out,
2:30
Hameed
2:31
in
2:31
this
2:31
chapter
2:32
that
2:32
one
2:33
thread
2:34
throughout
2:35
the
2:35
whole
2:35
book
2:36
has
2:37
been
2:37
the
2:37
relationship
2:39
between
2:39
soul
2:40
and
2:40
our
2:41
individual
2:41
self,
2:42
between
2:44
the
2:44
world
2:45
and
2:45
between
2:46
ground
2:47
as
2:47
God
2:48
or
2:48
our
2:48
ground
2:49
or
2:49
being.
2:50
And
2:50
you
2:50
point
2:50
out
2:51
that
2:51
we
2:52
start
2:52
off
2:52
with
2:52
a
2:53
fundamental
2:53
dissociation
2:54
between
2:55
these,
2:55
a
2:55
separation.
2:56
And
2:57
that
2:57
you
2:57
also
2:58
point
2:58
out
2:58
that
2:59
historically
3:01
there
3:01
has
3:01
been
3:02
a
3:03
similar
3:03
dissociation.
3:04
And
3:05
particularly
3:05
in
3:05
recent
3:06
times
3:06
with
3:06
the
3:06
rise
3:07
of
3:07
science,
3:08
there's
3:08
been
3:09
a
3:09
separation,
3:10
a
3:10
disjunction,
3:11
a
3:12
dissociation
3:13
between
3:14
our
3:14
experience
3:14
of
3:15
ourselves
3:15
or
3:16
soul
3:16
and
3:17
being.
3:18
And
3:18
also
3:19
culture
3:19
wide,
3:20
there's
3:20
been
3:20
a
3:20
dissociation.
3:22
So
3:22
maybe
3:22
that's
3:23
enough
3:23
to
3:23
give
3:23
you
3:24
a
3:24
point
3:24
to
3:25
comment
3:25
and
3:25
start
3:26
from.
3:26
Well,
3:27
the
3:27
idea
3:27
that
3:28
the
3:28
Development,
3:29
especially
3:30
of
3:30
the
3:30
Western
3:31
culture,
3:32
is
3:33
similar
3:33
to
3:33
the
3:33
development
3:34
of
3:35
what
3:35
happened
3:36
to
3:36
the
3:36
soul.
3:37
Developing
3:37
an
3:37
ego
3:38
and
3:38
then
3:39
starting
3:39
with
3:40
not
3:41
no
3:41
separation
3:41
and
3:42
separation
3:43
from
3:44
one's
3:44
nature.
3:45
And
3:46
the
3:47
idea
3:47
of
3:48
soul,
3:49
world
3:49
and
3:50
God
3:50
or
3:51
being
3:52
is
3:52
basically
3:53
the
3:53
basic
3:54
element
3:54
of
3:55
any
3:55
human
3:55
being
3:56
who
3:56
contemplate
3:57
reality,
3:58
who
3:58
begin
3:58
to
3:58
contemplate
4:00
oneself,
4:01
God
4:01
or
4:02
reality
4:03
or
4:03
the
4:03
truth
4:04
of
4:04
what
4:05
and
4:05
the
4:05
world.
4:07
So
4:07
how
4:08
are
4:08
they
4:08
connected?
4:10
We
4:10
always
4:11
have
4:11
to
4:11
contend
4:11
with
4:11
these
4:12
three.
4:13
So
4:14
not
4:14
all
4:15
people
4:15
do.
4:15
Of
4:15
course.
4:16
Most
4:17
people
4:17
are
4:17
busy
4:18
contending
4:18
with
4:19
themselves
4:20
and
4:20
the
4:20
world,
4:21
how
4:21
to
4:21
live
4:21
in
4:21
the
4:22
world.
4:23
But
4:24
many
4:24
people,
4:24
especially
4:25
if
4:25
you're
4:25
spiritually
4:26
or
4:26
religiously
4:27
inclined,
4:28
you
4:28
also
4:29
have
4:29
faith
4:30
or
4:30
connection
4:31
or
4:32
at
4:32
least
4:32
a
4:32
view
4:33
of
4:33
that
4:34
there
4:34
is
4:34
more
4:34
to
4:35
the
4:35
world
4:36
and
4:36
tower
4:37
experience
4:37
than
4:37
just
4:38
ordinary,
4:39
every
4:40
day,
4:41
secular
4:42
way
4:42
of
4:42
looking
4:42
at
4:43
things,
4:43
material
4:44
things,
4:44
the
4:45
person
4:45
and
4:46
the
4:47
world,
4:47
which
4:47
is
4:47
a
4:47
material
4:48
thing.
4:48
You
4:49
know,
4:49
that's
4:49
the
4:50
way
4:50
science
4:50
takes
4:50
it,
4:51
as
4:51
a
4:51
material
4:51
thing.
4:53
It
4:53
becomes
4:54
like
4:54
there's
4:54
a
4:55
third
4:55
element
4:55
which
4:56
is
4:57
some
4:57
spiritual
4:58
or
4:58
religious
4:58
element.
4:59
The
5:00
content
5:00
of
5:00
faith
5:01
or
5:01
content
5:01
of
5:02
practice
5:03
have
5:03
become
5:03
a
5:04
third
5:04
one.
5:05
And
5:05
basically
5:07
I
5:07
contend
5:08
that
5:09
inherently
5:09
they
5:10
are
5:10
not
5:10
separate,
5:11
inherently
5:12
not
5:12
separate,
5:13
although
5:13
many
5:13
people
5:14
experience
5:14
them
5:14
as
5:15
separate
5:15
element.
5:16
And
5:16
even
5:16
philosophically
5:17
they
5:18
are
5:18
looked
5:18
at
5:19
as
5:19
three
5:19
elements.
5:20
And
5:20
what's
5:21
the
5:21
connection
5:21
between
5:22
one
5:22
or
5:22
the
5:22
other
5:23
or
5:23
the
5:23
three
5:24
different
5:24
views
5:25
and
5:25
different
5:25
perspectives,
5:26
of
5:26
course,
5:27
throughout
5:27
Western
5:28
history.
5:29
So
5:29
I'm
5:29
mostly
5:30
talking
5:30
about
5:30
the
5:31
Western
5:31
Hilti,
5:31
although
5:31
I
5:32
bring
5:32
in
5:32
east
5:32
and
5:33
some.
5:33
But
5:33
the
5:34
perspective
5:34
I
5:34
give
5:34
is
5:35
about
5:35
more
5:35
the
5:36
Western
5:36
world
5:37
than
5:37
Western
5:38
civilization.
5:39
Hameed,
5:39
in
5:40
my
5:40
understanding
5:41
of
5:41
this,
5:41
in
5:41
the
5:42
separation
5:42
of
5:42
the
5:42
basic
5:43
triad,
5:44
God,
5:44
the
5:44
soul
5:44
and
5:45
the
5:45
cosmos,
5:45
the
5:45
world
5:46
was
5:47
not
5:48
a
5:48
disaster,
5:49
but
5:49
a
5:50
necessary
5:50
evolutionary
5:51
step.
5:51
Is
5:51
that
5:52
not
5:52
correct?
5:53
That
5:53
is,
5:53
yeah,
5:54
that
5:54
is
5:54
one
5:54
of
5:54
just
5:55
the
5:55
same
5:55
thing.
5:56
The
5:56
development
5:57
of
5:57
ego
5:58
is
5:58
not
5:58
an
5:59
error.
5:59
Remember,
6:00
we
6:00
discussed
6:00
this
6:01
from
6:01
the
6:01
beginning,
6:01
something
6:02
you
6:02
take
6:02
it,
6:02
it's
6:03
an
6:03
error,
6:03
it's
6:03
a
6:04
mistake,
6:04
it's
6:04
an
6:04
illus.
6:05
And
6:05
the
6:06
view
6:06
of
6:06
this
6:06
teaching
6:07
is
6:07
no,
6:07
it
6:08
is
6:08
part
6:09
of
6:09
the
6:09
process
6:09
of
6:10
the
6:10
development
6:11
of
6:11
consciousness.
6:12
It
6:12
is
6:13
natural
6:13
and
6:14
healing
6:14
and
6:14
lawful
6:15
that
6:16
the
6:16
soul
6:16
loses
6:17
its
6:17
ground
6:18
and
6:18
develops
6:19
into
6:20
a
6:20
self
6:20
of
6:20
ego.
6:23
And
6:23
that
6:23
is
6:24
not
6:24
just
6:25
modern
6:25
time.
6:25
I
6:25
think
6:26
the
6:26
whole
6:26
time
6:26
that
6:27
happens,
6:28
maybe
6:29
these
6:30
days
6:30
is
6:31
more
6:31
complete
6:31
than
6:32
it
6:32
used
6:32
to
6:32
be.
6:33
But
6:34
that's
6:35
normal.
6:35
Because,
6:35
you
6:36
know,
6:36
even
6:36
the
6:36
Buddha
6:37
talks
6:37
about
6:37
self
6:37
and
6:38
ego,
6:38
even
6:38
the
6:39
Eastern
6:39
tradition,
6:40
they
6:40
didn't
6:41
have
6:41
somebody
6:42
from
6:42
the
6:42
beginning,
6:43
people
6:43
who
6:43
were
6:44
fully
6:45
spiritual.
6:45
They
6:46
were,
6:46
you
6:46
know,
6:47
separate
6:47
self,
6:48
you
6:48
know,
6:49
made
6:50
out
6:50
of
6:50
concepts
6:50
and
6:51
beliefs
6:51
and
6:51
feeling.
6:52
But
6:53
the
6:53
idea
6:53
is
6:53
that
6:54
instead
6:54
of
6:55
seeing
6:55
it
6:55
as
6:55
an
6:55
error
6:56
or
6:56
we
6:56
don't
6:56
see
6:57
the
6:57
truth
6:57
of
6:57
it.
6:57
And
6:58
all
6:58
I
6:59
said
6:59
no.
6:59
This
6:59
is
7:00
part
7:00
of
7:00
natural
7:01
development
7:02
that
7:03
the
7:03
soul
7:04
cannot
7:05
keep
7:05
and
7:06
inherently
7:06
cannot
7:07
keep
7:07
its
7:08
connection
7:08
with
7:09
its
7:09
true
7:09
nature.
7:10
Because
7:10
the
7:11
influence
7:11
of
7:11
environment.
7:12
But
7:12
for
7:13
it
7:13
also
7:13
to
7:13
connect
7:14
to
7:14
the
7:14
world.
7:15
Because
7:15
the
7:15
world
7:16
is
7:16
the
7:17
physical
7:18
side
7:18
of
7:18
the
7:18
world
7:19
is
7:19
also
7:20
not
7:21
illusory.
7:21
It
7:22
is
7:22
a
7:22
real
7:23
way
7:23
reality
7:24
appears.
7:25
And
7:26
people,
7:27
the
7:27
soul
7:28
need
7:28
to
7:28
contend,
7:29
need
7:29
to
7:29
survive
7:30
and
7:31
survive
7:31
in
7:32
the
7:32
physical
7:32
body.
7:33
To
7:33
even
7:33
have
7:34
experience
7:34
of
7:34
practice
7:35
and
7:35
realization.
7:37
So
7:37
that's
7:37
the
7:37
thing.
7:38
I
7:38
don't
7:39
get
7:39
it
7:39
about
7:39
the
7:40
teaching.
7:40
They
7:40
say
7:40
it's
7:40
an
7:41
illusion.
7:42
What
7:42
do
7:42
you
7:42
mean?
7:43
It's
7:43
necessary,
7:47
you
7:47
know,
7:48
necessary,
7:48
you
7:48
know,
7:49
I
7:49
mean,
7:50
I
7:50
know
7:50
there's
7:50
very
7:51
talented.
7:51
They
7:51
call
7:52
a
7:52
necessary
7:53
fiction.
7:54
And
7:54
I
7:55
always
7:55
think
7:56
we've
7:56
discussed
7:57
that
7:57
before.
7:57
I
7:57
mean,
7:58
being
7:59
or
7:59
God
7:59
or
7:59
consciousness.
8:00
Why
8:00
does
8:00
it
8:00
need
8:01
fiction
8:02
to
8:02
know
8:02
itself,
8:03
you
8:03
know,
8:03
Strong
8:04
fiction.
8:04
Yeah.
8:05
I
8:05
mean,
8:05
why
8:05
fiction?
8:06
I
8:06
mean,
8:06
why
8:06
not
8:07
just
8:07
be.
8:08
It's
8:08
real
8:09
wave
8:10
manifesting
8:11
itself
8:11
in
8:12
one
8:12
way
8:13
so
8:13
on.
8:13
To
8:13
open
8:14
up
8:14
to,
8:15
you
8:16
know,
8:17
where
8:17
we
8:17
could
8:18
grow
8:18
and
8:18
develop
8:18
and
8:19
mature
8:20
physically
8:20
and
8:20
emotionally
8:21
and
8:21
mentally
8:22
and
8:22
all
8:22
that
8:23
which
8:23
is,
8:23
I
8:23
think,
8:23
is
8:24
the
8:24
point
8:25
of
8:25
being
8:25
here
8:26
on
8:26
this
8:26
planet.
8:27
And
8:27
as
8:28
that
8:28
happened,
8:29
then
8:30
we
8:30
have
8:30
the
8:31
possibility
8:32
of
8:33
connecting
8:33
to
8:34
the
8:34
third
8:35
element.
8:35
Which
8:36
is
8:36
the
8:36
grounded
8:37
being
8:37
or
8:37
the
8:38
spiritual
8:38
nature.
8:39
And
8:40
that
8:41
way,
8:41
recognizing
8:43
what
8:43
we
8:43
truly
8:44
are
8:44
on
8:45
all
8:45
our
8:45
dimensions
8:46
and
8:46
all
8:46
our
8:47
facets.
8:48
And
8:48
that
8:48
will
8:49
unify
8:49
us
8:49
with
8:50
our
8:50
true
8:50
nature.
8:51
But
8:51
what
8:52
the
8:52
book
8:52
has
8:52
gone
8:53
through
8:54
is
8:54
to
8:54
see
8:54
that
8:55
that
8:55
also
8:55
unifies,
8:57
as
8:57
we
8:57
know,
8:58
find
8:58
our
8:59
true
8:59
nature
8:59
of
8:59
spirituality
9:00
and
9:01
feels
9:01
it
9:01
and
9:02
realize
9:02
it.
9:03
That
9:03
connects
9:04
all
9:04
the
9:04
three
9:05
parts
9:05
the
9:06
world.
9:07
Being
9:07
and
9:07
the
9:08
soul
9:08
realize
9:09
they're
9:09
not
9:09
as
9:10
separate.
9:10
Separation
9:12
happens
9:12
for
9:13
a
9:13
while
9:13
for
9:13
a
9:13
particular
9:14
reason.
9:14
And
9:14
I
9:15
also
9:15
say
9:16
in
9:16
that
9:16
chapter,
9:17
the
9:18
spiritual
9:20
Western
9:20
development
9:21
is
9:22
an
9:22
unusual
9:22
development.
9:23
In
9:23
some
9:23
sense.
9:24
It
9:24
hasn't
9:24
happened
9:25
other
9:25
part
9:25
of
9:26
the
9:26
world.
9:26
Where
9:27
there
9:27
was
9:27
a
9:27
development
9:28
that
9:28
started
9:29
with
9:29
the
9:29
Enlightenment
9:30
age,
9:30
you
9:31
know,
9:31
Asian
9:31
light
9:33
and
9:34
development
9:35
arts
9:35
and
9:36
literature.
9:38
And
9:39
ended
9:39
up
9:39
developing
9:40
the
9:40
scientific
9:41
point
9:41
of
9:41
view
9:42
science.
9:43
And
9:44
science
9:44
has
9:45
become
9:45
such
9:46
an
9:46
important
9:46
part
9:46
of
9:47
life
9:48
reality.
9:48
That's
9:48
not
9:49
only
9:49
the
9:49
west
9:49
is
9:50
everywhere.
9:51
And
9:51
I
9:52
don't
9:52
think
9:52
the
9:52
scientific
9:53
perspective
9:54
could
9:54
have
9:54
developed
9:56
without
9:56
that
9:57
kind
9:57
of
9:57
separation
9:58
or
9:58
something
9:58
that
9:59
allows
9:59
the
10:00
mind
10:00
to
10:00
go
10:00
on
10:01
by
10:02
itself
10:02
and
10:03
conceptualize
10:04
and
10:04
think
10:04
and
10:05
theorize
10:05
which
10:06
is
10:06
true.
10:06
Not
10:06
connected
10:07
through
10:07
nature.
10:08
But
10:08
gave
10:09
it
10:09
an
10:09
arena
10:10
where
10:10
it
10:10
can
10:11
be
10:11
creative.
10:12
And
10:13
that
10:13
way
10:13
it
10:13
discovered
10:14
some
10:14
of
10:14
the
10:14
secrets
10:15
of
10:15
the
10:15
physical
10:16
world.
10:17
What
10:17
the
10:17
physical
10:18
world
10:18
and
10:19
scientists
10:19
continuing
10:20
to
10:20
discover.
10:21
It's
10:21
not
10:21
done.
10:22
Scientists
10:23
don't
10:23
believe
10:23
they
10:24
know
10:24
it
10:24
all.
10:25
They
10:25
Think
10:25
that
10:26
science
10:26
is
10:26
a
10:26
continuing
10:27
thing,
10:28
that
10:28
they
10:28
know
10:28
something.
10:29
Some
10:29
scientists,
10:30
like
10:31
say
10:31
Roger
10:31
Penrose,
10:32
one
10:32
of
10:32
them,
10:32
the
10:33
Nobel
10:33
prize
10:34
winners
10:34
in
10:34
the
10:34
physics,
10:35
says
10:37
science
10:37
is
10:38
beginning
10:39
to
10:39
understand
10:39
matter.
10:40
I
10:40
mean,
10:40
part
10:41
of
10:41
this
10:42
necessary
10:42
secularization
10:43
or
10:44
dissociation
10:45
of
10:45
the
10:45
big
10:45
three
10:46
God,
10:47
self,
10:47
world
10:48
has
10:49
been
10:49
a
10:49
loss
10:50
of
10:50
meaning
10:50
and
10:50
values
10:51
in
10:51
modernity
10:52
and
10:53
in
10:53
our
10:53
modern
10:54
postmodern
10:54
culture.
10:55
Yeah,
10:56
I
10:56
mean
10:56
the
10:56
way
10:56
it
10:57
happened
10:58
is
10:58
that
10:59
Antiparti
11:00
started
11:01
has
11:01
to
11:01
do
11:01
with
11:01
the
11:01
Catholic
11:02
Church,
11:03
with
11:04
the
11:04
story
11:04
of
11:04
Galileo,
11:05
remember
11:06
the
11:06
Galileo
11:07
story?
11:07
And
11:08
he's
11:09
seen
11:09
as
11:09
a
11:09
fulcrum
11:10
developed
11:10
in
11:11
a
11:11
scientific
11:12
perspective.
11:13
But
11:13
the
11:13
church
11:14
rejected
11:14
it.
11:15
And
11:15
that
11:16
made
11:17
science
11:18
say,
11:18
okay,
11:18
church
11:19
is
11:19
not
11:19
with
11:19
us,
11:21
we
11:21
have
11:21
to
11:21
develop
11:21
by
11:22
ourselves.
11:22
So
11:23
Galileo,
11:24
Kepler
11:25
and
11:25
others
11:25
basically
11:26
went
11:27
on
11:27
mentally,
11:29
intellectually
11:30
looking
11:31
at
11:31
reality.
11:32
Although
11:32
Galileo
11:33
thought
11:33
they
11:34
were
11:34
spiritual
11:35
in
11:35
some
11:35
sense,
11:36
but
11:36
later
11:37
scientific
11:38
people
11:39
were
11:39
not
11:39
that
11:40
spiritual.
11:41
I
11:41
mean,
11:41
Newton
11:42
had
11:42
a
11:42
spiritual
11:43
connect
11:43
in
11:44
art
11:44
to
11:45
him.
11:45
As
11:45
you
11:45
know,
11:45
he's
11:46
written
11:46
the
11:47
big
11:47
book
11:47
about
11:47
spirituality.
11:48
I
11:48
think
11:49
it's
11:49
about
11:49
the
11:49
hermetic
11:50
tradition.
11:50
I
11:51
think
11:51
in
11:52
thought
11:52
about
11:52
that.
11:53
Although
11:53
it's
11:54
not
11:54
that
11:54
well
11:54
known.
11:55
So
11:56
many
11:56
of
11:56
the
11:56
scientists,
11:57
even
11:57
the
11:57
quantum
11:58
theory
11:58
people,
11:59
you
12:00
know,
12:00
when
12:00
they
12:01
had
12:01
started
12:01
having
12:02
these
12:02
revelation
12:03
about
12:04
quantum
12:05
and
12:05
that
12:05
reality
12:06
is
12:06
not,
12:07
is
12:07
not
12:07
set
12:08
and
12:08
that
12:09
it
12:09
requires
12:09
the
12:10
perceiver
12:11
role
12:12
of
12:12
the
12:12
perceiver
12:13
in
12:13
terms
12:14
of
12:14
the
12:15
collapse
12:15
of
12:15
wave
12:15
function,
12:16
they
12:17
resorted
12:18
to
12:18
eastern
12:19
traditions.
12:21
Several
12:21
of
12:22
them,
12:22
you
12:22
know,
12:23
had
12:24
studied
12:25
some
12:25
of
12:25
the
12:26
Indian
12:27
philosophies
12:27
and
12:27
used
12:28
it
12:28
to
12:28
explain
12:29
because
12:29
they
12:29
saw
12:30
that
12:30
consciousness
12:31
is
12:31
important
12:31
in
12:31
it,
12:32
you
12:33
know.
12:33
But
12:34
later
12:34
on,
12:35
more
12:35
and
12:36
more
12:36
scientists
12:36
became
12:37
less
12:37
connected
12:38
to
12:38
spirituality
12:40
and
12:40
became
12:41
like
12:41
secular.
12:43
And
12:44
I
12:44
think
12:44
it's
12:45
led
12:45
to
12:45
the
12:45
secular,
12:46
secularization
12:47
of
12:47
whole
12:48
of
12:48
society.
12:48
And
12:49
it
12:49
wasn't
12:49
just
12:49
science.
12:50
I
12:50
think
12:50
our
12:51
philosophy,
12:51
like
12:52
Bertrand
12:52
Russell,
12:52
for
12:53
instance,
12:53
if
12:53
you
12:53
remember
12:54
him,
12:54
he
12:54
was
12:54
a
12:54
very
12:54
secular
12:55
kind
12:55
of
12:55
philosopher.
12:56
He
12:56
was
12:56
very
12:56
influential
12:57
in
12:57
the
12:58
20th
12:58
century,
12:58
you
12:58
know.
12:59
Yeah.
12:59
And
13:00
there's
13:00
a
13:00
beautiful
13:00
book
13:00
that
13:01
Ken
13:01
Wilbert
13:02
brought
13:02
together
13:02
the
13:02
quantum
13:03
questions,
13:03
bringing
13:04
together
13:04
the
13:04
kind
13:04
of
13:05
spiritual
13:05
physics
13:06
interface
13:07
of
13:07
the
13:08
great
13:08
quantum
13:08
pioneers.
13:09
And
13:09
of
13:10
course
13:10
Einstein.
13:12
John
13:13
and
13:13
I
13:13
were
13:13
just
13:13
at
13:13
a
13:13
integral
13:14
conference
13:14
in
13:14
which
13:15
there
13:15
was
13:15
a
13:15
beautiful
13:15
presentation
13:16
by
13:16
the
13:16
author
13:17
of
13:17
a
13:17
new
13:17
book,
13:18
I
13:18
Am
13:18
Part
13:18
of
13:18
Infinity,
13:19
which
13:19
is
13:20
on
13:20
the
13:20
spiritual
13:20
life
13:21
of
13:21
Einstein.
13:22
It's
13:22
very,
13:23
very
13:23
nice.
13:23
But
13:24
just
13:24
to
13:25
bring
13:25
us
13:26
back
13:26
to
13:26
and
13:27
have
13:27
you
13:27
speak
13:28
to
13:28
this
13:29
point
13:29
about
13:30
the
13:33
profound
13:33
cultural
13:34
impact
13:35
or
13:35
effects
13:36
of
13:36
this
13:36
dissociation.
13:37
The
13:38
fact
13:38
that
13:39
starting
13:39
around
13:39
with
13:40
Galileo,
13:41
that
13:42
science
13:42
and
13:44
religion
13:44
had
13:44
formerly
13:45
constrained
13:46
what
13:46
it
13:46
was
13:46
possible
13:47
to
13:47
think
13:48
and
13:48
to
13:49
say,
13:49
but
13:50
now
13:50
there
13:50
was
13:51
this
13:51
separation
13:52
and
13:52
with
13:52
that
13:52
separation
13:53
and
13:54
the
13:54
freeing
13:54
of
13:55
science
13:55
from
13:55
the
13:56
grip
13:56
of
13:57
religious
13:57
constriction.
13:59
Then
13:59
science,
14:00
as
14:00
you
14:00
point
14:01
out,
14:01
science
14:01
just
14:02
exploded.
14:03
And
14:03
that
14:04
in
14:04
turn
14:05
led
14:05
to
14:06
a
14:06
secularization
14:07
as
14:08
a
14:08
scientific
14:08
worldview
14:09
or
14:09
science
14:10
was
14:10
interpreted
14:11
as
14:11
necessarily
14:12
affirming
14:13
a
14:14
materialistic
14:14
worldview.
14:16
And
14:16
you
14:16
point
14:16
out
14:17
that
14:17
this
14:18
led
14:18
to
14:18
profound
14:19
shifts
14:20
in
14:21
our
14:21
understanding
14:22
of
14:22
the
14:22
nature
14:22
of
14:22
reality,
14:23
which
14:24
now
14:24
became
14:25
primarily
14:26
purely
14:26
material
14:27
in
14:27
our
14:28
own
14:28
human
14:28
nature,
14:29
which
14:30
at
14:30
its
14:31
most
14:31
dramatic
14:31
was
14:32
reduced
14:32
to
14:32
the.
14:33
So,
14:33
you
14:33
know,
14:33
the
14:33
wet
14:34
computers
14:34
of
14:35
neurobiologists
14:36
or
14:37
the
14:37
behavioral
14:38
response
14:38
machines
14:39
of
14:39
behaviorists
14:41
and
14:42
a
14:42
diminishing
14:43
of
14:43
our
14:43
potentials.
14:44
And
14:45
you
14:45
talk,
14:45
as
14:46
John
14:46
just
14:47
asked
14:47
you,
14:47
about
14:48
the
14:48
loss
14:48
of
14:48
meaning.
14:49
And
14:49
also
14:50
you
14:50
emphasize
14:51
that
14:51
it
14:51
really
14:52
shifted
14:52
our
14:52
understanding
14:53
of
14:53
how
14:53
we
14:54
obtain
14:54
fulfillment,
14:56
psychological
14:57
fulfillment.
14:58
Yeah.
14:58
And
14:59
also
14:59
the
15:00
development
15:00
of
15:01
science,
15:02
I
15:02
mean,
15:02
that
15:03
bifurcation
15:04
or
15:05
the
15:05
separation
15:06
that
15:06
led
15:06
to
15:07
the
15:08
development
15:09
of
15:09
science
15:09
taking
15:10
on
15:11
certain
15:11
direction
15:12
and
15:12
developing
15:13
it
15:13
also
15:13
happened
15:14
in
15:14
the
15:14
field
15:14
of
15:14
psychology.
15:16
Psychology
15:17
developed
15:18
too,
15:18
that
15:18
way
15:19
from
15:20
a
15:20
more
15:20
secular
15:21
perspective.
15:22
You
15:22
know,
15:22
I
15:22
mean,
15:23
I
15:23
know
15:23
Jung
15:24
tried
15:24
to
15:24
bring
15:25
in
15:25
the
15:25
spiritual
15:26
into
15:26
it,
15:27
but
15:27
he
15:27
was
15:28
just
15:28
one
15:28
small
15:29
direction.
15:30
Most
15:31
psychologists,
15:31
you
15:32
know,
15:32
especially
15:32
with
15:33
the
15:33
influence
15:33
of
15:33
Freud.
15:34
Freud
15:34
was
15:35
very
15:35
secular,
15:36
although
15:36
he
15:37
himself,
15:37
he
15:38
wasn't
15:38
100%
15:39
secular.
15:40
You
15:41
know,
15:41
if
15:41
you
15:42
remember
15:42
the
15:42
whole
15:43
debate
15:43
about
15:44
the
15:44
usage
15:45
of
15:45
the
15:45
word
15:45
ego,
15:46
where
15:46
does
15:46
it
15:46
come
15:46
from?
15:47
And
15:47
not
15:47
how
15:48
he
15:48
meant
15:49
in
15:49
the
15:49
German
15:50
sila,
15:50
which
15:51
means
15:51
soul,
15:51
and
15:52
get
15:52
that
15:52
transmitted
15:53
by
15:54
the
15:54
American
15:55
psychologist
15:56
as
15:56
ego.
15:57
And
15:58
I
15:59
remember
15:59
the
15:59
whole
16:00
discussion
16:00
about
16:00
it
16:01
a
16:01
few
16:01
decades
16:02
ago.
16:03
But
16:03
psychology
16:04
developed
16:04
because
16:05
psychology
16:05
was
16:05
part
16:06
of
16:06
a
16:06
spiritual
16:07
perspective,
16:07
part
16:08
of
16:08
religion,
16:08
basically,
16:10
in
16:10
understanding
16:11
the
16:11
human
16:11
soul.
16:12
But
16:12
psychology
16:13
developed
16:14
to
16:14
understand
16:15
the
16:15
human
16:16
soul,
16:17
developed
16:17
into
16:18
understanding
16:19
ego
16:19
really
16:20
in
16:20
a
16:20
way
16:20
that
16:21
wasn't
16:21
possible
16:21
before,
16:22
you
16:23
know,
16:23
because
16:24
ego
16:24
existed
16:25
for
16:25
a
16:25
thousand
16:25
years
16:26
so
16:27
within
16:27
the
16:28
individual.
16:28
And
16:29
that
16:29
sort
16:29
of
16:29
the
16:29
dimming
16:30
of
16:30
the
16:30
spiritual
16:31
ground
16:31
was
16:31
always
16:32
there
16:33
now,
16:33
you
16:34
know,
16:34
in
16:34
the
16:34
last
16:35
century
16:36
or
16:36
two
16:36
is
16:36
more
16:37
codified
16:38
in
16:38
our
16:38
philosophy
16:39
and
16:39
science.
16:40
And
16:40
that
16:40
led
16:41
to
16:42
great
16:42
improvement
16:43
for
16:43
the
16:44
human
16:44
condition.
16:44
Actually,
16:45
development
16:45
of
16:45
science
16:46
as
16:46
we
16:46
know,
16:47
in
16:47
terms
16:47
of
16:48
both
16:49
technology
16:50
and
16:50
medicine
16:50
and
16:51
all
16:51
these
16:51
things
16:52
that,
16:52
I
16:53
don't
16:53
know,
16:53
they
16:53
could
16:54
have
16:54
happened
16:55
without
16:55
that
16:55
separation.
16:56
Maybe
16:56
because
16:57
we
16:57
don't
16:57
know
16:58
be
16:58
speculation,
16:59
but
16:59
that's
17:00
how
17:00
it
17:00
happened.
17:01
And
17:01
it's
17:02
like
17:02
by
17:03
the
17:04
intellect
17:05
separating
17:05
from
17:06
the
17:06
spiritual
17:06
ground.
17:06
And
17:06
it
17:07
wasn't
17:07
also
17:07
the
17:08
way
17:08
it
17:08
happened.
17:08
It
17:09
separated
17:09
from
17:09
the
17:09
religious
17:10
ground,
17:11
like
17:11
with
17:11
Galileo
17:12
and
17:12
the
17:12
church.
17:13
Religion
17:13
meant
17:14
things
17:15
happen
17:15
according
17:15
to
17:16
what
17:16
the
17:16
Bible
17:16
says.
17:17
And
17:18
science
17:18
said,
17:19
no,
17:19
let's
17:20
find
17:20
out.
17:20
We
17:20
don't
17:21
know
17:21
what
17:21
reality
17:22
is.
17:23
That's
17:23
a
17:23
whole
17:23
different
17:24
perspective
17:25
than
17:25
what
17:25
did
17:26
the
17:26
Bible
17:27
say
17:27
so?
17:27
Still,
17:28
some
17:28
Christians
17:29
still
17:29
think
17:30
that
17:30
what
17:31
the
17:31
Bible
17:31
says
17:32
is
17:32
really
17:32
what
17:32
reality.
17:33
Is
17:33
because
17:34
they
17:34
feel
17:34
threatened
17:34
by
17:35
modernity.
17:35
Yeah,
17:36
I
17:36
mean,
17:36
still
17:37
some
17:37
people
17:37
who
17:37
believe
17:38
that
17:38
the
17:38
world
17:38
was
17:39
created
17:39
10,000
17:40
years
17:40
ago
17:40
or
17:40
something
17:41
like
17:41
that,
17:41
you
17:41
know,
17:42
there
17:42
are
17:42
Christians
17:43
who
17:43
are
17:44
not
17:44
persuasion
17:45
which
17:45
contrary
17:46
to
17:46
the
17:46
way
17:47
science,
17:50
but
17:50
science,
17:50
you
17:51
know,
17:51
in
17:51
such
17:51
an
17:51
interesting
17:52
way,
17:53
the
17:53
mind
17:53
cannot
17:54
help
17:55
but
17:55
reflect
17:55
its
17:56
origin.
17:56
To
17:57
really
17:57
take
17:57
intellect
17:58
and
17:58
use
17:58
it
17:59
in
17:59
a
17:59
correct
17:59
way,
18:00
the
18:00
way
18:00
the
18:01
science
18:01
tried
18:01
to
18:02
use
18:02
it,
18:02
which
18:02
is
18:03
not
18:03
to
18:03
have
18:04
be
18:04
biased
18:05
by
18:05
our
18:05
own
18:06
personal
18:06
views,
18:07
but
18:07
to
18:07
find
18:08
out
18:08
what
18:08
the
18:08
reality
18:09
tells
18:09
us,
18:09
what
18:10
our
18:10
instrument
18:11
tell
18:11
us,
18:11
what
18:11
our
18:12
experimentation
18:13
tell
18:13
us.
18:14
That
18:14
meant
18:14
an
18:14
openness
18:15
that
18:16
we
18:16
don't
18:16
know.
18:17
First
18:17
take
18:18
the
18:18
view.
18:18
I
18:18
don't
18:18
know,
18:19
Let
18:20
me
18:20
find
18:20
out
18:21
which
18:21
is
18:21
really
18:22
what
18:22
spiritual
18:22
traditions
18:23
do.
18:23
I
18:24
don't
18:24
know
18:24
what
18:24
reality
18:25
is.
18:25
Let
18:26
me
18:26
practice
18:26
to
18:27
see
18:27
what
18:27
do
18:27
I
18:27
discover.
18:28
However,
18:29
it's
18:29
applied
18:30
to
18:30
the
18:30
outer
18:31
world
18:31
instead
18:31
of
18:31
the
18:32
inner
18:32
world.
18:33
So
18:33
instead
18:33
of
18:34
an
18:35
inner
18:35
technology
18:36
which
18:36
mystical
18:37
traditions
18:38
developed,
18:38
science
18:39
developed
18:39
outer
18:40
technology
18:41
to
18:41
discover
18:42
what
18:43
the
18:43
perceived
18:44
world
18:45
is.
18:45
You
18:45
know,
18:46
and
18:46
that
18:47
led
18:47
to
18:47
great
18:48
understanding
18:49
of
18:49
that.
18:50
I
18:50
mean,
18:51
spiritually
18:52
you
18:52
could
18:52
say,
18:52
well,
18:53
there's
18:53
no
18:53
such
18:54
thing
18:54
as
18:54
electron
18:55
or
18:56
matters
18:57
all
18:57
consciousness.
18:58
Well,
18:58
I
18:58
mean,
18:59
from
18:59
a
18:59
spiritual
19:00
perspective
19:00
that's
19:00
true.
19:01
However,
19:02
a
19:02
scientist
19:03
would
19:03
say
19:03
no.
19:03
There
19:04
are
19:04
atoms
19:04
and
19:05
elementary
19:05
particles
19:06
and
19:06
there
19:06
are
19:07
forces,
19:08
electromagnetism
19:09
and
19:11
gravity.
19:11
And
19:11
all
19:12
that
19:13
led
19:13
to
19:13
great
19:14
development
19:15
that
19:15
human
19:15
being
19:16
get
19:16
the
19:16
benefit
19:17
of
19:17
now
19:18
and
19:19
even
19:20
spiritual
19:20
people
19:21
get
19:21
the
19:21
benefit.
19:22
When
19:22
the
19:22
great
19:22
masters
19:23
get
19:24
sick,
19:24
they
19:24
take
19:24
them
19:25
to
19:25
Western
19:25
hospital
19:27
modern
19:28
medicine
19:28
to
19:28
treat
19:29
their
19:29
cancer
19:29
or
19:30
their.
19:32
So
19:32
it
19:32
is
19:33
interesting
19:33
how
19:34
the
19:35
separation
19:36
somehow
19:37
allows
19:38
specialization.
19:39
It
19:40
is
19:40
a
19:40
narrowing
19:41
of
19:41
my
19:41
narrowing
19:42
of
19:42
the
19:42
field
19:43
to
19:44
one
19:44
area
19:45
of
19:45
the
19:45
triad.
19:46
However,
19:47
that
19:47
narrowing
19:48
the
19:48
way
19:48
scientific
19:49
view
19:49
develop,
19:50
which
19:50
is
19:50
different.
19:51
What
19:51
these
19:51
days
19:52
in
19:52
our
19:52
culture,
19:53
they
19:53
try
19:53
to
19:53
go
19:54
against
19:54
the
19:54
scientific
19:55
point
19:55
of
19:55
view.
19:56
People
19:56
are
19:57
against
19:57
science.
19:58
But
19:58
science
19:59
begins
20:00
with
20:00
saying,
20:00
we
20:01
don't
20:01
know,
20:01
let's
20:02
find
20:02
out.
20:03
So
20:03
when
20:04
Newton
20:05
discovered
20:05
gravity,
20:06
I
20:06
mean,
20:07
he
20:07
was
20:07
surprised
20:08
when
20:09
Apple
20:09
found
20:09
his
20:10
hand.
20:10
Why
20:10
did
20:11
it
20:11
fall
20:11
down
20:12
before?
20:13
They
20:13
said,
20:13
well,
20:13
that's
20:14
God's
20:14
doing.
20:15
That's
20:15
how
20:16
they
20:16
always
20:16
explain
20:17
the
20:18
way
20:18
God
20:18
did
20:18
it.
20:19
And
20:20
he
20:20
did
20:20
believe
20:21
God
20:21
did
20:22
it
20:22
that
20:22
way,
20:22
but
20:23
he
20:23
wanted
20:23
to
20:23
know
20:24
what
20:24
makes
20:24
it
20:25
happen
20:25
that
20:25
way,
20:26
you
20:26
know.
20:26
And
20:26
he
20:27
discovered
20:28
that
20:28
there
20:28
is
20:28
such
20:29
a
20:29
thing
20:29
as
20:29
a
20:30
force
20:30
of
20:30
gravity,
20:31
you
20:31
know.
20:31
And
20:31
that
20:31
explained
20:32
then
20:33
the
20:33
observed
20:34
movement
20:35
that
20:35
Kepler
20:36
made
20:36
of
20:36
the
20:37
planets,
20:38
different
20:38
planets,
20:39
how
20:39
they
20:39
moved.
20:40
And
20:40
using
20:41
his
20:41
formulas,
20:42
he
20:42
developed,
20:43
you
20:43
know,
20:44
and
20:44
he
20:44
developed
20:45
calculus
20:45
actually
20:46
too
20:48
mathematics
20:49
to
20:50
try
20:50
to
20:50
explain
20:51
the
20:51
move
20:51
on
20:51
the
20:51
planet,
20:52
and
20:53
he
20:53
was
20:53
able
20:54
to
20:54
explain
20:54
them.
20:55
And
20:56
you
20:56
point
20:56
out,
20:57
as
20:57
you
20:57
have
20:58
just
20:58
been
20:58
doing,
20:59
amid
20:59
that
20:59
science
21:00
has
21:00
exploded.
21:01
It's
21:01
just
21:02
become
21:02
this
21:02
incredibly
21:03
successful
21:05
enterprise,
21:05
along
21:06
with
21:06
its
21:06
technological
21:07
applications,
21:08
which
21:08
have
21:09
changed
21:09
all
21:10
our
21:10
lives.
21:10
And
21:10
many
21:11
of
21:11
us,
21:11
myself
21:11
included,
21:12
are
21:12
alive
21:13
because
21:13
of,
21:14
for
21:14
example,
21:14
the
21:15
medical
21:15
benefits.
21:16
So
21:16
on
21:16
the
21:17
one
21:17
hand,
21:17
we
21:17
have
21:17
these
21:18
incredible
21:19
miracles
21:20
and
21:20
gifts,
21:21
and
21:21
on
21:21
the
21:22
other
21:22
hand,
21:23
we
21:23
have
21:24
the
21:25
common
21:25
assumption
21:27
that
21:27
because
21:28
science
21:28
only
21:29
deals
21:29
with
21:29
material
21:30
entities
21:31
and
21:31
forces,
21:32
that
21:32
that's
21:33
the
21:33
nature
21:33
of
21:33
reality.
21:34
The
21:34
reality
21:35
is
21:35
material,
21:36
full
21:36
stop.
21:36
And
21:37
you
21:37
point
21:37
out
21:37
that
21:38
that
21:38
perspective,
21:39
that
21:39
worldview,
21:40
has
21:40
permeated
21:41
our
21:41
culture
21:42
and
21:43
colonized,
21:44
I
21:44
think,
21:44
is
21:45
the
21:45
word
21:45
used.
21:46
And
21:46
in
21:46
some
21:46
ways,
21:46
it's
21:47
been
21:47
very
21:47
dehumanizing.
21:48
It's
21:48
eradicated
21:49
our
21:50
inner
21:50
world,
21:51
or
21:51
it's
21:52
overshad
21:53
inner
21:53
world
21:53
and
21:53
inner
21:54
depths.
21:55
It's
21:55
denied
21:56
spirituality
21:57
in
21:57
our
21:57
spiritual
21:58
nature.
21:58
It's
21:59
focused
21:59
on
22:00
externals.
22:01
And
22:02
in
22:03
some
22:03
ways,
22:03
science
22:04
has
22:04
become
22:05
for
22:05
many
22:06
people
22:06
and
22:06
kind
22:07
of
22:07
where
22:08
we
22:08
expect
22:08
salvation
22:09
from.
22:09
And
22:10
you
22:10
point
22:10
out
22:11
that
22:11
this
22:11
has
22:11
produced
22:12
a
22:12
kind
22:12
of
22:12
emptiness
22:13
in
22:14
us.
22:14
There's
22:14
a
22:15
lack,
22:15
a
22:15
dehumanizing
22:16
emptiness
22:17
or
22:17
lack
22:17
of
22:17
a
22:18
role,
22:18
a
22:18
purpose,
22:19
a
22:19
meaning
22:19
in
22:20
the
22:20
larger
22:20
picture.
22:21
So.
22:21
And
22:21
that
22:22
things
22:22
like
22:22
Eastern
22:23
spirituality
22:24
have
22:24
come
22:24
in
22:25
and
22:25
begun
22:26
to
22:26
fill
22:26
that.
22:26
But
22:26
maybe
22:27
that's
22:27
enough.
22:27
Maybe
22:28
you
22:28
could
22:28
expand
22:29
on
22:29
some
22:30
of
22:30
those.
22:30
Some
22:30
of
22:31
your
22:31
ideas
22:31
that
22:31
you
22:31
present
22:32
here.
22:32
Yeah.
22:33
So
22:34
viewing
22:35
the
22:35
world
22:35
as
22:36
material
22:36
mostly
22:37
began
22:38
what's
22:38
called
22:38
a
22:38
secular
22:39
culture.
22:40
Secularism.
22:42
And
22:42
secularism
22:43
is
22:44
really
22:45
always
22:45
existed
22:46
as
22:46
a
22:46
tendency,
22:48
but
22:48
it
22:48
became
22:49
an
22:49
important
22:50
one
22:51
in
22:51
the
22:51
20th,
22:52
19th,
22:53
and
22:53
20th
22:53
century.
22:54
Became
22:54
dominant.
22:55
It
22:55
became
22:55
dominant,
22:56
became
22:56
dominant.
22:57
Although
22:58
there's
22:58
still
22:59
people
22:59
who
22:59
are
22:59
religious,
23:00
there
23:00
are
23:00
still
23:01
people
23:01
who
23:01
can
23:02
actually
23:02
go
23:02
to
23:02
church
23:03
and
23:03
stuff
23:03
like
23:03
that.
23:04
That
23:04
continues
23:04
to
23:05
happen.
23:06
Didn't
23:06
completely
23:07
eliminate
23:10
spirituality,
23:11
but
23:12
it
23:12
made
23:13
the
23:13
Western
23:14
spiritual
23:15
world
23:15
become
23:16
more
23:16
religious
23:17
and
23:17
less
23:17
mystical,
23:18
for
23:18
instance,
23:19
because
23:19
there
23:19
was
23:19
a
23:20
mystical
23:20
component,
23:21
a
23:21
big
23:21
mystical
23:21
component
23:22
to
23:22
the
23:22
Western
23:23
tradition
23:24
that
23:24
became
23:24
less
23:25
and
23:25
the
23:25
more
23:26
outer
23:26
religious,
23:27
which
23:27
is
23:27
the
23:28
belief
23:28
believing
23:29
what
23:29
reality
23:30
is
23:30
instead
23:31
of
23:31
knowing
23:31
it,
23:32
became
23:32
dominant.
23:34
So
23:34
within
23:34
the
23:35
secular
23:35
world,
23:36
even
23:37
religious
23:38
was
23:38
mental.
23:39
It's
23:39
based
23:39
on
23:40
belief,
23:40
that
23:40
experience.
23:42
But
23:42
there
23:42
are
23:42
individuals
23:43
who
23:43
had
23:44
deep
23:44
experience
23:45
and
23:45
all
23:45
that.
23:46
So
23:47
when
23:47
you
23:47
look
23:48
in
23:48
the
23:49
1920th
23:49
century,
23:50
it's
23:50
true
23:51
that
23:51
the
23:52
original
23:52
founder
23:53
had
23:54
still
23:54
some
23:55
connection
23:55
to
23:55
spirituality.
23:56
It
23:57
became,
23:58
by
23:58
the
23:58
time
23:58
the
23:58
20th
23:59
century
23:59
came,
23:59
it
24:00
was
24:00
like
24:00
secular
24:01
was
24:01
just
24:02
material.
24:03
And
24:03
most
24:03
scientists
24:04
were
24:04
secular,
24:05
secular.
24:05
And
24:06
some
24:06
of
24:07
them
24:07
even
24:08
didn't
24:09
believe
24:09
in
24:09
spirituality
24:10
or
24:11
divinity
24:12
or
24:12
anything
24:12
like
24:12
that.
24:13
They
24:13
thought
24:14
the
24:15
material
24:15
world
24:16
is
24:16
reality
24:17
and
24:18
fulfillment
24:18
need
24:19
to
24:19
happen
24:19
through
24:20
material
24:20
world.
24:22
And
24:22
you
24:23
know,
24:23
and
24:24
even
24:24
philosophers
24:25
of
24:25
science
24:26
thought
24:27
of
24:27
science
24:27
as
24:28
an
24:28
emancipator,
24:29
which
24:30
was.
24:30
But
24:31
it
24:31
was
24:32
not
24:32
as
24:32
much
24:33
an
24:33
emancipator
24:34
as
24:34
they
24:34
thought.
24:35
Because
24:36
it
24:36
left
24:36
a
24:37
whole
24:37
side
24:37
of
24:38
reality,
24:39
which
24:40
is
24:40
the
24:40
inner
24:40
spiritual
24:41
dimension.
24:42
And
24:43
in
24:43
some
24:43
sense,
24:44
I
24:44
think
24:44
in
24:45
the
24:45
last
24:45
few
24:45
decades.
24:46
They've
24:46
been
24:47
sort
24:47
of
24:48
beginning
24:49
questioning
24:50
of
24:50
that
24:51
perspective.
24:52
And
24:52
some
24:52
people
24:53
turn
24:53
into
24:53
one.
24:54
It's
24:54
partly
24:55
to
24:56
solve
24:56
some
24:57
of
24:57
the
24:57
issues
24:58
of
24:58
quantum
24:58
theory.
24:59
Actually.
24:59
They're
25:00
all
25:00
the
25:00
perceiver,
25:01
the
25:01
role
25:02
consciousness.
25:03
And
25:04
so
25:04
now
25:04
we
25:05
have
25:05
theories
25:05
of
25:05
consciousness,
25:06
scientists
25:07
coming
25:07
up
25:08
with
25:08
theories
25:08
of
25:08
consciousness.
25:09
And
25:10
still
25:10
more,
25:10
they're
25:11
generally
25:11
physically
25:12
oriented.
25:13
Yes,
25:13
most
25:14
are
25:15
physicists,
25:16
neuroscientists,
25:18
not
25:18
all,
25:18
but
25:19
the
25:19
majority
25:19
of
25:19
them
25:20
are
25:20
physically
25:20
oriented.
25:21
Trying
25:21
to
25:22
explain
25:22
how
25:23
consciousness
25:24
came
25:24
out,
25:25
brain
25:26
activity.
25:27
So
25:27
that's
25:27
a
25:28
continuation.
25:29
But
25:29
that
25:29
doesn't
25:30
mean
25:30
all
25:30
of
25:31
society
25:31
was
25:32
like
25:32
that.
25:33
I
25:33
think
25:33
in
25:34
some
25:34
sense,
25:35
some
25:35
segment
25:35
of
25:36
society
25:36
were
25:37
still,
25:38
you
25:39
know,
25:39
they're
25:39
churchgoers,
25:40
they're
25:41
still
25:41
connected.
25:41
They
25:42
have
25:42
facade
25:43
faith
25:43
and
25:44
things
25:44
like
25:44
that.
25:45
And
25:45
in
25:45
the
25:45
last
25:46
half
25:46
a
25:46
century,
25:47
it
25:47
became
25:48
interest,
25:50
spirituality
25:50
and
25:51
meditation
25:51
and
25:52
things
25:52
like
25:52
that.
25:53
Which
25:54
has
25:54
to
25:54
do
25:54
with
25:54
the
25:54
recognition
25:55
that
25:55
there's
25:56
something
25:56
missing.
25:57
Like
25:57
this
25:58
great
25:58
development.
25:59
Although
25:59
great,
26:00
it
26:00
left
26:01
something,
26:01
you
26:02
know,
26:02
left
26:02
something
26:03
that
26:03
neglected,
26:05
dropped
26:05
in
26:06
the
26:06
process.
26:07
It
26:07
wasn't
26:07
done
26:07
intentionally
26:08
by
26:08
anybody,
26:09
you
26:09
see,
26:09
just
26:10
the
26:10
way
26:10
things
26:11
developed.
26:11
Just
26:12
like
26:12
the
26:12
way
26:12
our
26:12
ego
26:13
developed.
26:13
It's
26:14
not
26:14
intentional,
26:14
it
26:15
just
26:15
happens.
26:15
I
26:16
find
26:16
it
26:17
interesting
26:17
that
26:18
how
26:19
the
26:19
development
26:20
of
26:20
Western
26:21
culture
26:21
parallel
26:22
the
26:22
development
26:23
of
26:23
ego.
26:24
It
26:24
is
26:24
really
26:24
interesting
26:25
because
26:26
it
26:26
didn't
26:26
happen
26:26
in
26:27
other
26:27
cultures
26:27
that
26:28
way.
26:28
It
26:28
happened
26:29
in
26:29
the
26:29
Western
26:29
culture.
26:30
So
26:31
that
26:31
both
26:32
tells
26:33
me
26:33
the
26:33
development
26:33
of
26:34
ego
26:34
has
26:35
to
26:35
be
26:35
viewed
26:35
similarly
26:36
to
26:36
the
26:36
development
26:37
of
26:37
secular
26:38
science
26:39
and
26:39
secular
26:39
philosophy.
26:41
That
26:41
it
26:41
is
26:42
lawful,
26:42
it
26:43
has
26:43
its
26:43
place.
26:44
But
26:45
also
26:45
that
26:46
it's
26:46
not
26:46
the
26:46
end.
26:47
Not
26:48
the
26:48
end.
26:48
And
26:48
I
26:49
think
26:49
that's
26:49
what
26:49
the
26:49
book
26:49
shows
26:51
from
26:51
the
26:51
beginning.
26:51
That,
26:51
yes,
26:52
that
26:52
happens.
26:53
But
26:53
if
26:53
we
26:53
stay
26:54
with
26:54
that,
26:55
that
26:55
leaves
26:56
a
26:56
gaping
26:57
emptiness,
26:57
a
26:58
big
26:58
emptiness,
26:58
a
26:59
meaninglessness
27:00
and
27:00
a
27:01
lack
27:01
of
27:01
true
27:02
fulfillment.
27:02
Because,
27:04
you
27:04
know,
27:04
the
27:04
other
27:05
thing
27:05
to
27:05
mention
27:06
is
27:06
that
27:07
the
27:07
way
27:08
it
27:08
developed
27:09
in
27:09
the
27:09
west
27:10
is
27:10
science,
27:12
physics
27:12
and
27:13
biology
27:14
and
27:14
math.
27:15
And
27:15
there's
27:15
psychology.
27:16
The
27:16
way
27:17
it
27:17
developed
27:17
is
27:17
more
27:18
circular,
27:18
which
27:18
later
27:19
on
27:19
we
27:19
get
27:20
more
27:20
of
27:20
the
27:20
transpersonal.
27:21
Which
27:22
like
27:22
Rahm
27:23
Maslow
27:23
and
27:24
others
27:24
waking
27:25
up
27:25
to,
27:25
wait,
27:25
wait
27:25
a
27:26
minute,
27:26
there's
27:26
more
27:26
stuff.
27:27
But
27:28
there
27:28
is
27:28
also
27:29
development
27:29
of
27:30
our
27:30
economical
27:31
systems.
27:32
The
27:32
way
27:33
capitalism
27:34
and
27:35
communism.
27:35
They're
27:36
both
27:36
secular,
27:37
material
27:38
way
27:38
of
27:39
looking
27:40
at
27:40
how
27:41
question
27:42
of
27:42
money
27:42
and
27:43
survival
27:44
and
27:45
how
27:45
happiness
27:46
and
27:46
how
27:48
human
27:48
can
27:48
conduct
27:49
their
27:49
life.
27:50
And
27:50
what's
27:50
important
27:51
how?
27:52
I
27:52
mean
27:54
there
27:54
also.
27:54
I
27:55
mean
27:55
capitalism
27:56
also
27:57
led
27:57
to
27:58
great
27:58
development
27:59
in
27:59
terms
27:59
of.
28:00
It
28:00
helped
28:00
the
28:00
development
28:01
of
28:01
science.
28:02
So
28:02
capitalism
28:03
and
28:03
scientific
28:04
development
28:04
happened
28:05
sort
28:05
of
28:05
similar
28:06
side
28:07
by
28:07
side
28:07
helping
28:08
each
28:08
other.
28:09
And
28:10
so
28:10
capitalism
28:11
is
28:12
sort
28:12
of
28:12
relatively
28:13
new,
28:13
it's
28:13
not
28:14
ancient.
28:15
And
28:15
communism
28:16
was
28:16
another
28:17
theory
28:17
contending
28:18
it
28:18
was
28:18
also
28:19
the
28:19
Communism
28:19
was
28:20
also
28:20
very
28:20
secular
28:21
and
28:21
western.
28:22
And
28:22
it
28:23
is
28:23
Western.
28:23
Yeah.
28:24
So
28:24
it's
28:25
interesting
28:25
all
28:25
these
28:26
fears
28:26
that
28:26
happen
28:27
and
28:28
you
28:28
know,
28:29
Captain
28:30
has
28:30
its
28:31
wonderful
28:31
side,
28:32
but
28:32
also
28:32
as
28:32
we
28:33
know
28:33
now,
28:33
it
28:33
has
28:34
its
28:34
negative
28:34
side.
28:35
It
28:35
does
28:35
leave
28:36
many
28:36
people
28:37
underprivileged,
28:38
although
28:39
it
28:39
was
28:39
seen
28:39
at
28:40
the
28:40
beginning.
28:40
That's
28:41
gonna
28:41
really
28:42
help
28:42
everybody.
28:43
Wasn't
28:44
really
28:44
working.
28:44
Karl
28:45
Marx
28:45
thought
28:45
he'd
28:46
find
28:46
another
28:46
way
28:47
to
28:47
help
28:47
everybody.
28:48
It
28:48
turned
28:48
out
28:50
it's
28:50
a
28:50
failed
28:51
experiment.
28:52
It
28:53
only
28:53
made
28:54
few
28:54
people
28:54
powerful,
28:55
rich
28:56
instead
28:56
of
28:56
the
28:57
proletariat.
29:00
So
29:01
we
29:01
could
29:01
see
29:01
all
29:02
these
29:02
strands
29:03
that
29:03
happened
29:04
in
29:04
the
29:04
last
29:04
few
29:04
centuries.
29:06
We
29:06
see
29:06
them
29:07
objectively.
29:07
You
29:07
can
29:08
look
29:08
at
29:08
them
29:08
as
29:09
K
29:10
studs
29:10
instead
29:10
of
29:11
saying
29:11
they're
29:11
good
29:11
or
29:11
bad.
29:12
They
29:13
have
29:13
two
29:13
sides
29:14
to
29:14
them.
29:14
So
29:15
these
29:15
have
29:15
been
29:15
great
29:16
social
29:16
and
29:16
economic
29:17
experiments
29:19
is
29:19
suggesting.
29:20
And
29:20
each
29:21
of
29:21
them,
29:21
the
29:22
capitalism,
29:22
communism
29:24
and
29:24
secularism
29:25
have
29:25
been.
29:26
And
29:26
to
29:27
a
29:27
large
29:27
extent
29:27
the
29:28
scientific
29:28
enterprise
29:29
have
29:29
been
29:29
largely
29:30
secular.
29:31
And
29:31
you
29:31
raise
29:32
the
29:32
question
29:32
of.
29:33
So
29:33
in
29:33
a
29:34
very
29:34
clear
29:34
way,
29:35
these
29:35
are
29:36
expressions
29:37
of
29:37
the
29:37
dissociation
29:38
you
29:38
point
29:39
out
29:39
between
29:39
a
29:40
soul
29:40
or
29:40
our
29:41
self
29:41
and
29:42
God
29:42
or
29:42
ground
29:43
of
29:43
being
29:44
and
29:44
world
29:45
where
29:45
we
29:46
and
29:46
the
29:46
world
29:46
are
29:47
seen
29:47
as
29:47
more
29:49
materialistic
29:50
things
29:50
or
29:51
objects
29:51
or
29:51
phenomena.
29:53
And
29:53
you
29:53
ask
29:54
the
29:54
question,
29:54
well,
29:54
is
29:55
this
29:55
dissociation
29:56
a
29:56
necessary
29:58
part
29:58
of
29:58
evolution
29:59
or
29:59
is
30:00
it.
30:00
Is
30:00
this
30:00
a
30:01
necessary
30:01
consequence
30:02
of
30:02
the
30:02
kind
30:03
of
30:03
cultural
30:03
evolution
30:04
we've
30:04
had
30:04
or
30:04
it
30:05
could
30:05
it
30:05
have
30:05
gone
30:06
otherwise?
30:06
And
30:07
you
30:07
don't
30:07
quite
30:07
know.
30:08
But
30:08
you
30:09
point
30:09
out
30:09
that
30:10
this
30:10
isn't
30:10
the
30:11
end
30:11
of
30:11
the
30:11
story.
30:12
The
30:12
ego
30:13
and
30:13
your
30:13
whole
30:14
work
30:14
is
30:14
devoted
30:15
to
30:16
bringing
30:16
people
30:16
to
30:16
a
30:17
place
30:17
where
30:17
they
30:17
can
30:17
continue
30:18
their
30:18
development
30:20
beyond
30:20
the
30:21
conventional
30:22
ceiling
30:22
of
30:23
possibilities,
30:23
which
30:24
is
30:24
a
30:25
mature
30:25
ego.
30:26
And
30:26
likewise
30:27
you
30:27
point
30:28
out
30:28
that,
30:29
well,
30:29
there
30:29
are
30:29
further
30:29
possibilities
30:31
for
30:31
us
30:31
as
30:31
a
30:32
culture
30:32
too.
30:32
Yes,
30:33
I
30:33
think
30:34
so.
30:34
And
30:34
we
30:35
go
30:35
through
30:35
upheavals,
30:36
but
30:36
I
30:37
think,
30:37
you
30:37
know,
30:37
at
30:38
least
30:38
for
30:38
the
30:38
present
30:39
time,
30:39
there
30:39
are
30:39
upheavals.
30:40
And
30:41
part
30:41
of
30:41
it
30:41
is
30:41
because
30:42
of
30:42
this,
30:43
all
30:43
this
30:43
dissociation,
30:44
I
30:45
think
30:45
that
30:46
resulted
30:46
both
30:47
in
30:47
the
30:47
secular
30:48
view,
30:48
the
30:49
capitalist
30:49
view.
30:50
All
30:50
of
30:51
these
30:51
led
30:51
to
30:51
all
30:52
the
30:52
upheavals.
30:53
Now
30:53
we
30:53
have,
30:54
I
30:54
don't
30:54
know,
30:54
maybe
30:56
these
30:56
are
30:56
long
30:57
term
30:57
kind
30:57
of
30:58
things.
30:58
So
30:58
we
30:58
don't
30:58
know
30:59
how
31:00
and
31:01
when
31:01
things
31:01
will
31:02
turn
31:03
around.
31:03
So
31:04
there'll
31:04
be
31:04
more
31:04
Integration.
31:05
And
31:05
we're
31:06
not
31:06
guaranteed
31:06
that
31:07
will
31:07
happen.
31:07
You
31:08
know,
31:08
the
31:09
integration
31:09
will
31:10
happen
31:10
between
31:11
God
31:12
and
31:13
that
31:13
secularism
31:14
can
31:15
find
31:16
its
31:16
spiritual
31:17
depth.
31:18
Well,
31:18
Hameed,
31:19
I
31:19
think,
31:19
I
31:20
think
31:20
in
31:20
your
31:20
work
31:20
that's
31:21
exactly
31:21
what
31:21
you,
31:22
you
31:22
do.
31:23
And
31:23
a
31:24
lot
31:24
of
31:24
these
31:24
problems
31:24
as
31:25
we
31:25
become
31:25
ungrounded,
31:26
become
31:26
ungrounded
31:27
from
31:27
the
31:27
ground
31:27
of
31:28
being.
31:28
And
31:28
so
31:28
when
31:29
you're
31:29
cut
31:29
off
31:29
from
31:29
that,
31:30
you
31:30
know,
31:30
it's,
31:30
it's
31:31
kind
31:31
of
31:31
a
31:31
scary
31:31
place.
31:32
And
31:32
in
31:32
our
31:33
modern
31:33
world
31:33
it's
31:34
the
31:34
increase
31:34
of,
31:34
increase
31:35
of
31:35
complexity
31:36
and
31:36
diversification
31:38
that
31:38
is
31:38
just
31:39
unrolling
31:39
as
31:40
we
31:40
speak.
31:41
Confronts
31:41
the
31:41
modern
31:42
human
31:42
being
31:43
with
31:43
this
31:43
huge
31:44
dilemma.
31:44
You
31:44
just
31:44
get
31:45
lost
31:45
in
31:45
all
31:45
the
31:46
data
31:46
and
31:46
the
31:46
stimulation
31:47
and
31:47
you
31:47
lose
31:48
contact
31:48
with
31:48
the
31:49
ground
31:49
which
31:49
you
31:50
said
31:50
is
31:50
simple
31:51
beyond
31:51
content.
31:51
It's
31:52
just
31:52
very
31:52
basic.
31:53
Well,
31:54
ground
31:54
of
31:54
being
31:55
there
31:55
is
31:55
that,
31:56
that
31:56
everything
31:57
comes
31:57
from.
31:58
And
31:58
without
31:58
that
31:59
anchor
32:00
experientially
32:01
or
32:01
even
32:02
intellectually,
32:03
we
32:03
tend
32:03
to
32:03
get
32:03
lost.
32:04
Yes.
32:05
And
32:05
so
32:06
and
32:06
that's
32:07
what
32:07
we
32:07
see
32:07
for
32:08
individuals
32:09
and
32:09
we
32:09
see
32:09
it
32:10
in
32:10
culture
32:11
as
32:11
a
32:11
whole.
32:12
I'm
32:12
sort
32:12
of
32:13
not
32:13
completely,
32:14
I'm
32:15
somewhat
32:15
reluctant
32:16
of
32:16
making
32:17
the
32:17
cultural
32:17
development
32:18
completely
32:19
the
32:19
same
32:20
as
32:20
ego
32:20
development
32:21
because
32:22
in
32:22
the
32:23
past
32:24
millennias
32:24
cultures
32:25
were
32:25
not
32:25
completely
32:26
mystical.
32:27
People
32:27
had
32:28
egos,
32:28
people
32:29
and
32:31
most
32:31
people
32:32
saw
32:32
themselves
32:32
as
32:33
physical
32:33
body.
32:34
I
32:34
mean
32:34
although
32:34
they,
32:35
you
32:35
know,
32:35
the
32:35
idea
32:36
of
32:36
soul
32:36
was
32:37
there,
32:37
people
32:37
believed
32:38
they
32:38
were
32:38
souls
32:39
and
32:39
there
32:40
was
32:40
more
32:40
closeness,
32:41
more
32:41
nearness
32:42
to
32:42
the
32:42
spiritual
32:43
ground
32:43
than
32:44
the
32:44
secularism.
32:45
However,
32:46
it
32:46
wasn't
32:47
really
32:47
connected
32:48
to
32:48
the
32:48
spiritual
32:49
ground.
32:49
You
32:50
can't
32:50
say
32:51
in
32:51
Europe
32:52
and
32:52
the
32:52
Middle
32:53
Ages
32:53
people
32:53
were
32:54
really
32:54
connected
32:54
to
32:55
their
32:55
spiritual
32:55
nature.
32:56
You
32:56
know,
32:56
just
32:57
knowing
32:58
about
32:59
all
32:59
the
32:59
violence
33:00
that
33:00
happens
33:01
and
33:01
all
33:01
the
33:02
indicators,
33:03
selfishness,
33:03
self
33:04
centeredness
33:04
of
33:05
ego
33:05
basically.
33:06
And
33:07
same
33:07
even
33:08
in
33:08
the
33:08
east
33:09
that
33:09
that's
33:10
the
33:10
case
33:10
where
33:11
man
33:11
is
33:11
supposed
33:12
to
33:12
be.
33:12
The
33:12
spirituality
33:13
with
33:14
no
33:15
ego
33:16
reigns
33:16
supreme.
33:17
You
33:17
know,
33:18
so
33:18
ego
33:19
development
33:20
always
33:21
been.
33:21
It's
33:21
a,
33:22
it's
33:22
a
33:22
natural
33:22
development
33:23
that
33:23
always
33:23
have.
33:24
The
33:24
Western
33:25
culture
33:26
went
33:26
along
33:27
those
33:27
line
33:28
in
33:28
the
33:28
last
33:28
few
33:29
millennias.
33:30
Not
33:31
millennia,
33:31
the
33:31
last
33:31
few
33:32
centuries
33:33
developed
33:33
that
33:33
way.
33:34
So
33:34
just
33:35
as
33:35
egos
33:35
need
33:36
to
33:36
be
33:36
able
33:37
to
33:37
survive
33:37
and
33:37
live,
33:39
the
33:39
culture
33:39
developed
33:40
to
33:40
survive
33:40
and
33:40
live
33:41
in
33:41
a
33:41
good
33:41
way,
33:41
in
33:42
a
33:42
more
33:42
survival,
33:43
more
33:43
security
33:44
for
33:44
survival
33:45
which
33:45
happened.
33:46
People
33:46
lived
33:46
in
33:46
the
33:47
90s
33:47
and
33:47
hundreds
33:47
now
33:49
enjoy
33:49
your
33:50
relative
33:51
physical
33:52
well
33:52
being
33:53
much
33:53
better
33:53
than
33:54
before.
33:54
But
33:55
it
33:55
is
33:55
true,
33:56
you
33:56
know,
33:57
people
33:57
who
33:58
reflect
33:58
on
33:58
themselves,
33:59
they
33:59
realize
34:00
there's
34:00
emptiness
34:01
there
34:01
is
34:01
which
34:02
at
34:02
some
34:02
point
34:03
they
34:03
can
34:03
see
34:04
has
34:04
to
34:04
do
34:04
with
34:05
the
34:05
disconnection.
34:05
Something's
34:06
missing.
34:06
Then
34:06
at
34:07
the
34:07
beginning
34:07
people
34:07
don't
34:08
know
34:08
what's
34:08
missing.
34:09
They
34:09
just
34:09
feel
34:09
Something
34:10
missing
34:10
and
34:10
they
34:11
don't
34:11
know.
34:11
People
34:12
think
34:13
it's
34:13
another
34:13
project,
34:14
maybe
34:14
we'll
34:15
do
34:15
it,
34:15
another
34:16
relationship.
34:17
And
34:17
that's
34:17
what
34:17
most
34:18
people
34:18
do.
34:19
However,
34:19
some
34:19
people
34:21
wake
34:21
up
34:21
to
34:22
the
34:22
saying,
34:22
no,
34:23
there's
34:24
another
34:24
thing
34:25
in
34:25
life.
34:26
Not
34:26
necessarily
34:27
being
34:28
religious
34:28
without
34:28
having
34:29
to
34:29
go
34:29
to
34:29
church
34:29
and
34:30
listen
34:30
to
34:30
a
34:30
priest.
34:31
It's
34:31
just
34:31
a
34:31
natural
34:32
human
34:32
development.
34:33
And
34:34
of
34:34
course,
34:34
it
34:35
helps
34:35
if
34:35
you
34:36
are
34:37
impacted,
34:38
come
34:38
in
34:39
contact
34:39
with
34:39
some
34:40
kind
34:40
of
34:40
teacher
34:41
or
34:41
a
34:41
tradition
34:42
or
34:42
you
34:43
read
34:43
something,
34:43
you
34:44
study
34:44
some
34:45
that
34:45
helps.
34:46
So
34:47
I
34:47
find
34:48
it
34:48
interesting
34:48
to
34:49
see
34:49
what
34:49
the
34:50
future
34:50
few
34:51
centuries
34:51
will
34:52
be,
34:52
you
34:52
know,
34:53
what
34:53
kind
34:53
of
34:54
movement
34:54
will
34:54
happen.
34:55
I
34:55
mean,
34:56
I'm
34:56
not
34:56
with
34:57
the
34:57
people
34:57
who
34:57
think,
34:58
oh
34:58
yeah,
34:59
within
34:59
a
34:59
century
35:00
or
35:00
two,
35:00
humanity
35:01
will
35:01
wake
35:01
up
35:02
to
35:02
itself
35:02
and
35:03
be
35:04
more
35:04
enlightenment.
35:05
I
35:06
don't
35:06
think
35:06
that.
35:06
I
35:07
don't
35:07
think
35:07
the
35:07
human
35:07
beings
35:08
are
35:08
not
35:08
ready
35:09
for
35:09
that.
35:10
Yeah,
35:10
you
35:10
mentioned
35:10
thousands
35:11
of
35:11
years.
35:11
I
35:11
think
35:11
you
35:12
even
35:12
mentioned
35:12
a
35:12
hundred
35:12
thousand
35:13
years.
35:13
Yeah,
35:14
I
35:14
think.
35:14
I
35:15
don't
35:15
know.
35:15
I
35:15
mean,
35:16
because
35:16
if
35:17
you
35:17
look
35:17
at
35:17
the
35:19
history
35:19
of
35:19
humanity
35:20
that
35:20
recorded
35:21
history
35:21
of
35:22
humanity,
35:22
5,
35:23
6,
35:23
7,
35:24
8,000
35:24
years,
35:25
there's
35:25
always
35:25
been
35:26
wars
35:27
and
35:27
violence
35:27
and
35:28
possessions
35:29
and
35:29
stuff
35:30
like
35:30
that.
35:31
There
35:31
were
35:32
a
35:32
few
35:32
exceptions
35:33
of
35:33
cultures
35:33
were
35:34
sort
35:34
of
35:34
peaceful
35:35
and
35:35
appreciating
35:36
art
35:37
or
35:37
something
35:37
like
35:38
that.
35:39
So
35:40
that
35:40
doesn't
35:41
give
35:41
me
35:41
great
35:42
confidence
35:43
in
35:43
the
35:43
human
35:44
development,
35:44
that
35:45
it's
35:46
gonna
35:46
change
35:46
in
35:47
drastic
35:47
ways.
35:48
I
35:48
mean.
35:50
I
35:50
mean,
35:50
there
35:51
are
35:51
parts
35:51
of
35:52
our
35:53
Western
35:53
culture,
35:54
human
35:55
as
35:55
a
35:55
whole,
35:55
moving
35:56
the
35:56
other
35:56
way.
35:57
And
35:57
the
35:57
movement
35:58
toward
35:58
AI,
35:58
for
35:59
instance,
35:59
is
36:00
really
36:00
moving
36:00
further
36:01
toward
36:02
abstraction
36:03
and
36:03
disconnection.
36:04
Well,
36:05
Hameed,
36:06
I
36:06
want
36:06
to
36:06
say
36:06
what,
36:06
you
36:07
know,
36:07
what
36:07
this
36:08
teaching
36:08
has
36:08
come
36:08
through
36:09
you
36:09
is
36:10
helping
36:10
people,
36:11
helping
36:12
me
36:12
hopefully
36:13
to
36:14
realize
36:15
the
36:15
ground
36:16
of
36:16
being.
36:17
Okay.
36:18
But
36:18
it
36:18
doesn't
36:18
just
36:19
homogenize
36:20
me
36:20
into
36:20
this
36:21
grace
36:21
vatness
36:22
of,
36:22
you
36:22
know,
36:23
everything.
36:24
It.
36:25
It
36:25
still
36:25
honors
36:26
deeply
36:27
the.
36:28
The
36:28
evolution
36:29
and
36:29
the
36:29
development
36:30
of
36:30
the
36:30
individual
36:31
soul
36:32
itself,
36:32
which
36:33
is
36:33
really
36:33
different
36:34
from
36:34
a
36:34
lot
36:34
of
36:34
Eastern
36:35
spiritual
36:36
traditions.
36:36
And
36:37
so
36:37
with
36:38
this
36:38
approach,
36:38
we
36:39
get
36:39
to
36:39
realize
36:40
the
36:40
unity
36:40
of
36:40
all
36:41
things,
36:42
but
36:42
at
36:42
the
36:42
same
36:43
time
36:43
have
36:43
and
36:44
honor
36:45
the
36:45
discursive
36:46
mind.
36:46
Science
36:47
and
36:48
math
36:49
and
36:49
logic
36:49
and
36:50
reason.
36:51
It's
36:51
like
36:51
we
36:51
get
36:51
to
36:51
have
36:52
our
36:52
cake
36:52
and
36:52
eat
36:52
it
36:52
too.
36:53
And
36:53
I
36:53
think
36:53
it's
36:53
really
36:54
inspiring.
36:54
I
36:54
think
36:55
that's
36:55
the
36:56
case.
36:56
That's
36:57
what
36:57
I
36:57
see
36:58
from
36:58
my
36:58
experience,
36:59
the
36:59
perception
37:00
of
37:00
people
37:00
I
37:01
work
37:01
with,
37:01
that
37:02
human
37:02
being.
37:03
People
37:04
can
37:04
develop.
37:05
They
37:05
might
37:06
experience
37:06
the
37:06
same
37:06
ground,
37:07
but
37:07
each
37:08
is
37:08
unique
37:09
and
37:10
different.
37:11
And
37:11
part
37:12
of
37:12
that
37:12
sense
37:13
of
37:13
valuing
37:14
the
37:14
individual
37:15
appears
37:16
also
37:16
on
37:16
the
37:16
Western
37:17
civilization.
37:18
If
37:18
you
37:18
look
37:19
at
37:19
the
37:19
Western
37:20
civilization,
37:20
including
37:21
capitalism,
37:22
the
37:22
secular
37:22
culture,
37:23
in
37:23
Western
37:23
civic
37:24
culture,
37:24
Especially
37:25
in
37:25
the
37:25
US
37:25
actually
37:26
emphasizes
37:27
the
37:27
importance
37:28
of
37:28
autonomy,
37:29
the
37:29
autonomous
37:30
independent
37:31
human
37:31
being.
37:32
And
37:32
which
37:32
is
37:32
not
37:33
emphasized
37:33
in
37:33
eastern
37:34
culture.
37:34
You
37:34
know,
37:35
using
37:35
culture,
37:36
autonomy
37:36
is
37:37
not
37:37
a
37:37
big
37:37
deal
37:37
in
37:38
America.
37:38
Autonomy
37:39
is
37:39
a
37:39
big.
37:40
The
37:40
big
37:40
principle
37:41
which
37:41
is
37:41
sort
37:42
of
37:42
a
37:42
reflection
37:43
of
37:44
the
37:44
uniqueness
37:44
of
37:45
the
37:45
human.
37:45
It's
37:45
not
37:46
a
37:46
spiritually
37:47
grounded
37:47
one,
37:48
but
37:48
there's
37:48
an
37:48
outer
37:49
reflection
37:49
of
37:49
it.
37:50
You
37:50
see,
37:51
it
37:51
is
37:51
sort
37:52
of
37:52
the
37:52
outer
37:53
shell
37:53
of
37:54
what
37:55
an
37:55
individual
37:56
soul
37:57
is
37:57
to
37:58
value
37:58
the
37:59
importance
37:59
of
38:00
the
38:00
individual.
38:00
And
38:01
you
38:01
know,
38:02
it
38:02
is
38:02
an
38:03
American
38:03
constitution.
38:04
All
38:04
men
38:05
are
38:05
created
38:05
equal,
38:06
all
38:06
created
38:06
equal.
38:07
All
38:07
these
38:07
to
38:07
be
38:07
self
38:08
evident.
38:08
But
38:08
each,
38:09
each
38:09
is
38:09
considered
38:10
important.
38:11
Yes.
38:11
And
38:12
that's
38:12
the
38:12
thing.
38:12
Each
38:13
is
38:13
important
38:13
and
38:13
unique
38:14
and
38:14
they
38:14
have
38:14
their
38:15
own
38:15
contribution,
38:16
their
38:16
own
38:17
destiny
38:17
and
38:17
all
38:18
that.
38:18
That
38:18
is
38:19
an
38:19
important
38:19
thing.
38:20
And
38:20
that
38:21
really
38:21
reflects
38:23
the
38:23
values
38:23
that
38:24
come
38:24
from
38:24
the
38:24
pearl
38:24
beyond
38:25
price,
38:25
which
38:25
is
38:26
the
38:26
spiritual
38:27
individual
38:29
being
38:29
a
38:29
person.
38:30
From
38:30
the
38:31
being
38:31
perspective
38:32
where
38:32
autonomy
38:33
is
38:33
an
38:33
important
38:33
part,
38:34
it
38:34
shows
38:34
what
38:34
is
38:35
true
38:35
autonomy.
38:36
So
38:36
the
38:37
autonomy
38:37
of
38:37
the
38:38
personal
38:38
essence,
38:39
the
38:39
pearl
38:39
beyond
38:40
price,
38:40
it's
38:41
sort
38:42
of
38:42
could
38:42
be
38:43
seen
38:43
as
38:43
a
38:44
prototype
38:45
of
38:45
what
38:45
the
38:45
western
38:45
culture
38:46
think
38:46
of
38:46
as
38:47
autonomy.
38:48
The
38:48
autonomy
38:49
mean
38:49
you
38:49
are
38:50
your
38:50
own
38:50
being,
38:50
you
38:51
are
38:51
your
38:51
own
38:52
soul
38:53
and
38:53
it
38:53
is
38:53
not
38:54
matter
38:54
independent
38:55
somebody
38:55
else
38:56
or
38:56
something
38:56
like
38:56
that.
38:57
It's
38:57
more
38:57
energy.
38:58
But
38:59
the
38:59
teaching
39:00
of
39:00
course
39:00
brings
39:01
us
39:01
back
39:01
to
39:02
the
39:02
connection.
39:03
But
39:05
remember,
39:06
not
39:06
many
39:06
people
39:07
follow
39:07
teaching
39:08
like
39:08
that.
39:09
And
39:09
so
39:10
I
39:10
don't
39:10
see
39:11
my
39:11
work
39:11
is
39:11
going
39:12
to
39:12
help
39:13
humanity
39:13
in
39:13
general
39:14
revert
39:15
back
39:16
to
39:17
unity.
39:18
The
39:19
triad.
39:20
It
39:20
will
39:21
drop
39:21
in
39:21
the
39:21
ocean.
39:22
Maybe
39:22
it
39:22
would
39:23
be
39:23
helpful.
39:23
Who
39:24
knows
39:24
what
39:24
will
39:24
happen
39:24
in
39:25
the
39:25
future.
39:25
But
39:26
I'm
39:26
glad
39:26
to
39:26
see
39:27
there
39:27
are
39:27
many
39:27
individuals
39:28
who
39:28
are
39:28
benefiting,
39:29
who
39:29
are
39:29
learning
39:29
about
39:30
as
39:31
you
39:31
are,
39:32
John,
39:32
you
39:32
know,
39:33
valuing
39:34
the
39:35
importance
39:35
of
39:35
the
39:36
depth
39:37
ground
39:38
depth
39:39
side
39:39
of
39:40
reality
39:41
and
39:42
spiritual
39:42
depth,
39:44
not
39:44
just
39:44
material
39:45
depth,
39:46
you
39:46
know,
39:46
and
39:47
we're
39:47
seeing
39:47
it
39:47
as
39:48
what
39:48
kind
39:49
of
39:49
bring
39:50
true
39:50
peace,
39:51
true
39:52
fulfillment,
39:53
true
39:53
happiness,
39:55
true
39:55
release
39:56
of
39:56
suffering,
39:57
unnecessary
39:58
suffering.
39:59
That
39:59
the
39:59
spiritual
40:00
ground
40:01
that's
40:01
been
40:02
that
40:02
Silas
40:02
doesn't
40:03
deal
40:03
with
40:03
is
40:04
needed
40:04
to
40:04
complete
40:05
the
40:05
story.
40:06
Medicine
40:06
is.
40:07
It's
40:07
good
40:08
spiritual
40:09
medicine
40:09
for
40:09
our
40:10
medicine
40:10
to
40:10
develop.
40:11
That
40:11
helps.
40:12
And
40:12
in
40:12
fact
40:12
I
40:13
remember
40:13
Gurdjieff
40:14
idea,
40:15
you
40:15
know,
40:15
about
40:15
that
40:16
powerful.
40:16
Towards
40:17
the
40:17
end
40:17
of
40:17
his
40:17
life
40:18
he
40:18
was
40:18
looking
40:18
into
40:19
the
40:19
question
40:19
of
40:20
how
40:20
human
40:20
being
40:21
can
40:21
live
40:21
longer.
40:22
And
40:22
he
40:23
was,
40:23
he
40:23
could
40:23
sue.
40:24
He
40:24
studied
40:24
that
40:25
idea
40:25
and
40:25
many
40:26
books
40:26
he
40:26
talks
40:26
about
40:27
which
40:27
he
40:28
believed
40:28
that
40:28
human
40:29
beings
40:29
don't
40:30
live
40:30
long
40:30
enough
40:31
to
40:31
be.
40:31
To
40:32
develop
40:32
spiritually.
40:33
And
40:33
he
40:33
thought
40:34
they
40:34
need
40:34
to
40:34
live
40:34
longer
40:35
because
40:35
it
40:36
takes
40:36
a
40:36
lot
40:37
learning
40:37
and
40:37
development.
40:38
And
40:39
you
40:39
need
40:39
many
40:40
knocks
40:40
and
40:40
wounds
40:41
and
40:41
stuff
40:41
before
40:42
you
40:42
begin
40:43
to
40:43
wake
40:43
up.
40:44
And
40:44
so
40:44
there
40:45
isn't
40:45
enough
40:46
time
40:46
to
40:46
do
40:47
it
40:47
for
40:47
most
40:47
people.
40:48
That's
40:48
how
40:48
he
40:49
looked
40:49
at
40:49
it.
40:50
And
40:50
that
40:50
might
40:50
be
40:50
true,
40:51
you
40:52
know,
40:52
as
40:52
we
40:52
live
40:53
longer,
40:54
healthy,
40:55
able
40:55
to
40:56
have
40:56
our
40:57
acumen,
40:59
awareness,
40:59
might
41:00
give
41:00
us
41:00
more.
41:01
I
41:01
don't
41:01
know.
41:01
That's
41:02
how
41:02
he
41:02
looked
41:02
at
41:03
it.
41:04
But
41:04
so
41:04
science
41:05
is
41:05
trying.
41:05
Medicine
41:06
tries
41:06
to
41:07
make
41:07
us
41:07
live
41:07
longer.
41:08
It
41:08
is
41:08
making
41:09
us
41:09
live
41:09
longer.
41:10
I
41:10
don't
41:10
know.
41:10
As
41:10
long
41:11
as
41:11
he
41:11
thought.
41:12
So
41:12
maybe
41:12
in
41:12
time,
41:13
I
41:13
mean,
41:14
without
41:14
saying
41:15
now,
41:15
that's
41:16
not
41:16
unusual
41:17
for
41:17
the
41:17
near
41:18
future,
41:18
people
41:18
will
41:19
live
41:19
over
41:20
100
41:21
years
41:21
old.
41:22
And
41:22
so
41:23
it's
41:23
true
41:24
that
41:24
gives
41:25
people
41:25
time
41:25
to
41:26
experience
41:26
things,
41:26
to
41:27
go
41:27
through,
41:27
go
41:28
through
41:28
the
41:28
success
41:28
through,
41:29
trying
41:30
to
41:30
get
41:31
fulfilled
41:31
outside.
41:32
And
41:32
then
41:33
there's
41:33
enough
41:33
time
41:34
to
41:34
see
41:34
that
41:34
doesn't
41:35
work.
41:35
And
41:36
that
41:36
might
41:36
help
41:37
anyone
41:38
to
41:38
look.
41:38
For
41:38
other
41:39
sources,
41:40
enough
41:40
time
41:40
to
41:40
read
41:40
your
41:41
books.
41:41
Hameed.
41:44
Well,
41:45
it
41:45
won't
41:45
happen.
41:47
Medicine
41:48
doesn't
41:48
solve
41:49
the
41:49
question
41:49
of
41:50
dementia.
41:51
Yes,
41:51
because
41:52
aging
41:52
can
41:53
bring
41:53
dementia,
41:54
which
41:54
makes
41:55
it
41:55
not
41:55
really
41:55
possible
41:56
to
41:56
engage
41:58
intelligently
41:59
with.
41:59
And
42:00
if
42:00
they
42:01
solve
42:01
that,
42:02
I
42:02
think
42:02
that
42:03
might
42:03
bring
42:03
them
42:03
closer
42:04
to
42:04
what.
42:04
Gurdjieff
42:05
wanted,
42:07
although
42:07
to
42:08
throw
42:08
a
42:08
negative
42:09
point
42:09
in
42:09
the
42:10
reality.
42:10
For
42:10
example,
42:11
there's
42:11
long
42:12
been
42:12
the
42:12
idea
42:12
that
42:13
wisdom
42:13
and
42:13
age
42:14
go
42:14
together,
42:15
but
42:15
the
42:15
research
42:15
is
42:16
now
42:16
crystal
42:17
clear.
42:18
They
42:19
do
42:19
not
42:19
necessarily
42:19
go
42:20
together
42:20
at
42:20
all.
42:21
Usually
42:21
age
42:21
just
42:22
shows
42:22
up
42:22
by
42:22
itself.
42:24
But
42:24
you
42:25
paid
42:25
a
42:26
more.
42:26
You
42:27
are
42:27
very
42:28
open
42:28
in
42:29
your
42:29
ideas
42:30
of
42:30
speculation
42:31
about
42:31
what
42:32
could
42:32
happen,
42:33
but
42:33
you
42:33
do
42:34
offer
42:34
a
42:34
vision
42:35
and
42:35
a
42:35
possibility
42:36
and
42:36
at
42:36
both
42:37
the
42:37
individual
42:38
and
42:39
individual
42:39
developmental
42:40
level,
42:41
and
42:41
at
42:41
the
42:42
larger
42:43
cultural
42:43
and
42:44
even
42:44
global
42:44
level,
42:45
and
42:45
you
42:45
point
42:45
out
42:45
that
42:46
individual
42:46
development
42:47
there
42:47
is
42:48
the
42:48
possibility,
42:48
as
42:49
you
42:49
lay
42:49
out
42:49
and
42:50
as
42:50
the
42:50
diamond
42:51
approach
42:51
aims
42:52
for
42:52
the
42:53
possibility
42:53
for
42:54
a,
42:56
for
42:56
development
42:57
through
42:57
the
42:57
egoic
42:58
stages,
42:59
then
42:59
through
42:59
essential
43:00
development
43:01
and
43:02
eventually
43:02
to
43:03
the
43:04
essential
43:04
individuated
43:05
soul.
43:06
And
43:06
then
43:06
you
43:06
point
43:06
out
43:07
and
43:07
you
43:08
have
43:08
a
43:08
line
43:08
even
43:09
all
43:09
the
43:09
way
43:10
to
43:10
the
43:10
microcosm
43:11
diamond
43:12
pearl.
43:13
Love
43:13
to
43:13
know
43:13
hear
43:14
about
43:14
the
43:14
microcosm
43:15
diamond
43:15
pearl.
43:16
So
43:17
pearl.
43:18
I
43:18
have
43:18
a
43:19
whole
43:19
book
43:19
about
43:19
the
43:20
Permian
43:20
plants
43:21
because,
43:22
see,
43:23
that's
43:23
really
43:23
important.
43:25
Some
43:25
of
43:25
the
43:25
Western
43:26
tradition
43:26
have
43:27
recognized
43:27
the
43:27
pearl
43:28
story
43:28
about
43:29
the
43:29
pearl,
43:30
the
43:30
lost
43:30
pearl
43:31
that
43:31
you
43:31
find
43:32
exists
43:32
both
43:33
in
43:33
Sufi
43:34
and
43:34
Christian
43:35
old
43:36
literature.
43:37
Literature
43:38
which
43:38
is
43:38
you
43:39
find
43:39
the
43:39
pearl
43:40
in
43:40
the
43:40
world.
43:41
Jesus
43:41
talked
43:42
about
43:42
that.
43:42
Yeah,
43:42
you
43:43
don't
43:43
find
43:43
it
43:43
in
43:44
the
43:44
spiritual
43:44
world,
43:44
you
43:45
find
43:45
it
43:45
in
43:45
the
43:46
physical
43:46
world,
43:47
because
43:47
you
43:47
have
43:47
to
43:48
go
43:48
into
43:48
life
43:49
and
43:50
immerse
43:50
yourself
43:50
in
43:51
it
43:51
and
43:52
struggle
43:52
with
43:52
it,
43:53
because
43:53
the
43:53
pearl
43:53
is
43:54
the
43:55
maturation
43:55
of
43:56
the
43:56
soul,
43:56
and
43:56
the
43:57
soul
43:57
matures
43:58
by
43:58
Encounters
43:59
in
43:59
life.
44:00
It
44:00
doesn't
44:00
mature
44:01
just
44:01
by
44:01
meditating.
44:02
When
44:02
you
44:02
just
44:03
meditate,
44:04
only
44:04
one
44:04
segment
44:05
of
44:05
the
44:05
soul
44:05
develop
44:06
its
44:07
sensitivity.
44:07
Developed
44:09
to
44:09
go
44:09
deeper
44:10
into
44:10
the
44:11
essential
44:11
realm.
44:12
However,
44:12
there
44:13
are
44:13
many
44:13
parts
44:13
of
44:13
the
44:13
soul
44:14
that
44:14
don't
44:14
develop
44:14
their
44:15
functionalities.
44:16
How
44:16
to
44:16
deal
44:16
with
44:17
the
44:17
world,
44:17
how
44:17
to
44:18
relate
44:18
with
44:18
people.
44:19
All
44:20
these
44:20
things
44:21
and
44:22
intelligence.
44:22
And
44:23
application
44:24
of
44:24
intelligence
44:25
and
44:25
compassion
44:25
and
44:25
love
44:26
to
44:26
other
44:26
people,
44:27
to
44:27
the
44:27
environment,
44:28
to
44:28
other
44:29
beings.
44:30
It
44:30
need
44:31
human
44:32
being,
44:32
need
44:32
to
44:32
interact,
44:33
need
44:33
to
44:34
live
44:34
life,
44:35
need
44:35
to
44:35
immerse
44:36
themselves
44:36
like
44:36
that.
44:36
Have
44:37
to
44:37
have
44:37
a
44:37
family
44:37
life,
44:38
they
44:38
have
44:38
relationship,
44:39
they
44:39
have
44:39
to
44:39
have
44:40
career,
44:40
they
44:41
have
44:41
to
44:41
have
44:41
work.
44:41
All
44:42
that
44:42
develop
44:42
the
44:42
soul
44:43
in
44:43
different
44:43
ways
44:44
than
44:44
if
44:44
you
44:45
just
44:45
meditate.
44:46
So
44:46
there
44:46
are
44:46
great
44:46
masters
44:47
in
44:47
the
44:47
east,
44:48
for
44:48
instance,
44:49
who
44:49
were
44:50
transcendent,
44:51
free,
44:51
all
44:51
of
44:52
that.
44:52
But
44:53
they
44:53
couldn't
44:54
take
44:54
care
44:54
of
44:55
themselves.
44:55
They
44:55
were
44:55
left
44:56
to
44:56
themselves.
44:56
The
44:57
community
44:57
take
44:58
care
44:58
of
44:58
them.
44:58
So
44:59
here
45:00
the
45:00
teaching
45:01
and
45:01
giving
45:01
is
45:01
that
45:02
no,
45:02
you
45:02
have
45:02
to
45:03
do
45:03
both.
45:04
You
45:04
could
45:04
get
45:04
to
45:04
the
45:05
spiritual
45:05
depth
45:05
as
45:06
the
45:06
five
45:07
boundless
45:07
dimension.
45:08
I
45:08
mentioned
45:09
in
45:09
this
45:09
book
45:10
and
45:10
further
45:10
in
45:11
other
45:11
books.
45:12
But
45:12
also
45:13
you
45:13
could
45:13
develop
45:14
individually.
45:14
So
45:15
the
45:15
soul
45:15
maturation
45:16
becomes
45:16
what
45:17
I
45:17
call
45:17
the
45:17
pearl
45:17
beyond
45:18
price,
45:18
which
45:19
is
45:19
the
45:19
personalization
45:20
of
45:21
being.
45:21
Which
45:22
is
45:22
being
45:22
a
45:23
being
45:23
appearing
45:24
as
45:24
a
45:24
person,
45:24
a
45:25
person
45:25
of
45:25
presence.
45:26
And
45:26
that
45:26
person
45:27
can
45:27
develop.
45:28
That
45:28
can
45:29
then
45:29
integrate
45:30
the
45:30
different
45:31
spiritual
45:32
dimension
45:33
and
45:34
spiritual
45:34
qualities
45:35
which
45:35
I
45:36
mentioned.
45:36
Spiritual
45:37
aspect
45:37
like
45:38
love,
45:38
compassion,
45:39
intelligence,
45:40
strength,
45:40
will.
45:41
All
45:42
of
45:42
those
45:42
things,
45:43
which
45:43
is
45:44
that
45:44
approach
45:44
makes
45:45
a
45:45
big
45:45
deal
45:45
about
45:45
them.
45:46
Not
45:46
many
45:46
teachings
45:47
do
45:47
that.
45:47
And
45:48
we
45:48
know
45:48
that,
45:49
right?
45:50
So
45:50
the
45:50
pearl
45:51
part
45:51
of
45:51
the
45:51
development
45:51
experience.
45:52
The
45:52
pearl
45:53
can
45:54
reveal
45:55
itself
45:55
as
45:56
integrating
45:56
those
45:57
qualities
45:57
in
45:57
itself.
45:58
I
45:58
call
45:58
that
45:59
the
45:59
complete
45:59
pearl.
46:00
Complete
46:00
pearl.
46:00
When
46:01
the
46:01
pearl
46:01
has
46:01
all
46:02
the
46:02
qualities,
46:02
not
46:03
just
46:03
the
46:03
personalness,
46:04
but
46:04
has
46:04
compassion
46:05
and
46:05
love
46:05
and
46:06
intelligence
46:06
and
46:07
clarity.
46:07
All
46:07
of
46:08
this
46:08
as
46:08
part
46:09
of
46:09
being
46:09
a
46:09
human
46:10
spiritual
46:11
person.
46:11
And
46:12
then
46:12
integrates
46:12
the
46:13
bondage
46:13
dimension
46:14
into
46:14
itself.
46:14
It
46:15
can
46:15
become
46:15
a
46:15
personalization,
46:17
for
46:17
instance,
46:18
of
46:18
pure
46:18
awareness.
46:19
Or
46:19
pure
46:20
boundless
46:21
love
46:21
or
46:22
personalization
46:23
of
46:23
the
46:23
absolute.
46:24
And
46:24
as
46:24
it
46:24
integrates
46:25
what
46:26
I
46:26
call
46:26
the
46:26
journey
46:27
of
46:27
descent
46:28
dimension,
46:29
which
46:29
is
46:29
different
46:29
ways
46:30
how
46:30
the
46:31
absolute
46:31
ground
46:32
appears
46:33
integrated
46:34
with
46:34
other
46:34
dimensions
46:35
as
46:35
those
46:36
are
46:36
integrated.
46:36
I
46:37
call
46:37
the
46:37
microcosm
46:38
pro.
46:39
Meaning
46:39
it
46:39
is
46:40
a
46:40
microcosm
46:40
with
46:41
a
46:41
macrocosm.
46:42
The
46:42
microcosm
46:43
is
46:43
all
46:43
reality,
46:44
with
46:44
all
46:44
its
46:45
dimensions.
46:46
All
46:47
what
46:47
I
46:47
call
46:47
the
46:48
co
46:48
emergent
46:49
non
46:49
duality
46:50
in
46:50
this
46:50
book.
46:51
So
46:52
the
46:52
personal
46:53
expression
46:54
of
46:55
the
46:55
microcosm
46:56
co
46:57
emergent
46:57
non
46:57
duality.
46:58
Is
46:58
what
46:58
I
46:59
call
46:59
the
46:59
microcosm
46:59
pro.
47:00
And
47:00
amid
47:01
you
47:01
point
47:01
out,
47:01
is
47:02
part
47:02
of
47:02
your
47:03
drawing
47:04
parallels
47:04
between
47:05
individual
47:06
development
47:06
and
47:07
possibilities
47:08
and
47:09
cultural
47:09
development.
47:10
And
47:10
Its
47:10
possible
47:11
future
47:11
evolution
47:13
that
47:13
if
47:13
something
47:14
similar
47:14
would
47:14
have
47:15
happened
47:15
to
47:15
us
47:15
as
47:15
a
47:15
culture,
47:16
if
47:16
we
47:16
were
47:16
to
47:16
heal
47:17
the
47:17
dissociation,
47:18
if
47:18
we
47:19
were
47:20
large
47:20
numbers
47:21
of
47:21
us
47:21
were
47:21
able
47:21
to
47:22
recognize
47:23
that
47:23
our
47:24
individual
47:25
self
47:26
or
47:26
soul
47:26
and
47:27
the
47:27
world
47:28
are
47:29
born
47:30
from
47:30
and
47:30
inseparable
47:31
from
47:32
the
47:32
ground
47:32
of
47:33
being,
47:33
then
47:34
we
47:34
would
47:35
have
47:35
healed
47:35
the
47:36
split.
47:36
And
47:37
you
47:37
talk
47:37
about
47:38
the
47:38
possibility
47:39
of
47:39
becoming
47:40
a
47:40
cultural
47:41
pearl
47:42
or
47:42
even
47:43
a
47:43
species
47:44
pearl.
47:45
Yeah.
47:45
So
47:45
a
47:45
group
47:46
can
47:46
develop
47:46
a
47:46
pearl.
47:47
Our
47:48
group,
47:48
for
47:48
instance,
47:49
part
47:49
of
47:49
the
47:50
development,
47:50
we
47:50
have
47:51
a
47:51
small
47:51
group
47:52
where
47:52
big
47:53
group,
47:53
which
47:54
can
47:54
have
47:54
100,
47:55
200
47:55
people
47:55
in
47:55
it.
47:56
They
47:56
meet
47:57
in
47:57
smaller
47:57
group
47:58
like
47:58
groups
47:58
12
47:59
to
47:59
15.
48:00
And
48:00
they
48:00
meet
48:00
regularly
48:01
and
48:01
they
48:01
do
48:02
inquiries
48:02
and
48:03
explorations.
48:04
And
48:04
they
48:04
interact
48:05
with.
48:05
And
48:05
that
48:06
people
48:06
knowing
48:07
each
48:07
other
48:07
develop
48:08
as
48:08
some
48:08
people
48:09
begin
48:09
to
48:09
experience
48:09
that
48:10
the
48:10
whole
48:10
group
48:11
is
48:11
a
48:11
whole
48:11
field
48:12
of
48:12
presence.
48:13
And
48:14
that
48:14
field
48:14
present
48:14
can
48:15
develop
48:15
to
48:15
be
48:15
a
48:16
pearl
48:16
has
48:16
a
48:17
personal
48:17
quality
48:17
which
48:18
means
48:18
greater
48:19
integration,
48:19
you
48:20
know,
48:20
because
48:21
of
48:22
also
48:22
the
48:23
principle
48:23
of
48:23
integration.
48:24
So
48:25
a
48:25
cultural
48:26
pearl,
48:26
or
48:26
even
48:26
a
48:27
species
48:27
pearl.
48:28
If
48:29
we
48:29
were
48:29
to,
48:30
as
48:31
a
48:31
culture
48:31
to
48:31
mature
48:32
to
48:32
that
48:32
stage.
48:32
And
48:32
as
48:33
a
48:33
species
48:33
to
48:33
mature
48:34
to
48:34
that,
48:34
would
48:34
that
48:34
be
48:35
the.
48:36
That
48:36
there
48:36
will
48:36
be
48:37
a
48:37
collective
48:37
recognition
48:38
of
48:38
the
48:38
ground
48:39
of
48:39
being
48:40
and
48:41
a
48:42
maturation
48:43
of
48:44
various
48:45
capacities
48:45
in
48:46
the
48:46
world
48:46
and
48:47
even
48:47
an
48:47
integration
48:48
of
48:48
those?
48:48
I
48:49
mean,
48:49
yes,
48:50
that
48:50
is
48:50
true.
48:51
I
48:51
mean,
48:51
that
48:51
follows,
48:52
however,
48:53
you
48:53
know,
48:53
I
48:54
mean,
48:54
that's
48:54
a
48:55
possibility.
48:55
I
48:56
could
48:56
say,
48:56
just
48:56
as
48:57
it
48:57
happened
48:57
for
48:57
a
48:57
small
48:58
group,
48:58
it
48:58
can
48:58
happen
48:58
to
48:59
a
48:59
larger
48:59
group.
48:59
The
49:00
same
49:00
principle
49:01
applies.
49:02
It
49:02
could
49:02
happen
49:02
to
49:03
the
49:03
whole
49:03
group,
49:04
human
49:05
species.
49:07
But
49:07
that
49:07
is
49:07
a
49:08
possibility.
49:09
And
49:09
just
49:10
like
49:10
for
49:11
a
49:11
particular
49:12
individual,
49:13
there
49:13
is
49:13
a
49:13
possibility
49:14
of
49:14
being
49:15
integrated
49:16
with
49:16
the
49:16
spiritual
49:17
ground.
49:17
But
49:17
most
49:18
people
49:18
don't.
49:19
So
49:20
for
49:20
the
49:20
whole
49:20
species,
49:21
it's
49:21
a
49:21
possibility.
49:22
But
49:22
it's
49:23
also,
49:23
you
49:24
know,
49:24
we
49:25
don't
49:25
see
49:25
it
49:25
in
49:26
our
49:26
lifetime
49:26
how
49:27
it's
49:27
going
49:27
to
49:27
go
49:27
that
49:27
way.
49:28
Maybe.
49:28
I
49:28
mean,
49:28
who
49:29
knows
49:29
what
49:29
will
49:30
happen
49:30
in
49:30
a
49:30
few
49:30
million
49:31
years.
49:33
Very
49:33
ideas
49:33
that
49:34
you're
49:34
presenting
49:34
here.
49:35
It's
49:35
almost
49:35
as
49:36
if
49:36
you
49:36
have
49:36
to
49:36
give
49:37
it
49:37
out
49:37
and
49:37
manifest
49:38
it
49:38
for
49:38
it
49:38
to
49:38
become
49:39
part
49:39
of
49:39
the
49:39
journey.
49:40
The
49:40
reality
49:40
that
49:41
if
49:41
we're
49:41
on
49:41
the
49:41
journey
49:41
and
49:42
we
49:42
don't
49:42
realize
49:43
the
49:43
ground
49:43
of
49:43
being,
49:44
we
49:44
don't
49:44
realize
49:44
the
49:45
importance
49:45
of
49:45
interacting
49:46
with
49:46
the
49:46
world
49:47
as
49:47
a
49:47
part
49:48
of
49:48
the
49:48
whole
49:48
journey
49:49
of
49:49
realization
49:50
of
49:50
self.
49:51
It
49:51
really
49:51
brings
49:52
it
49:52
all
49:52
together
49:53
in
49:53
a
49:53
way
49:53
that
49:54
if
49:54
you
49:54
get
49:54
it
49:54
even
49:55
intellectually,
49:56
as
49:56
I
49:56
hope
49:56
I'm
49:57
doing,
49:57
some
49:57
of
49:58
it's
49:58
very
49:58
ecstatic.
49:59
It's
49:59
a
49:59
very,
49:59
very
49:59
powerful
50:00
vision.
50:01
I
50:01
know.
50:01
I
50:01
love
50:02
the
50:02
vision.
50:02
It's
50:02
a
50:03
wonderful
50:03
vision.
50:04
And
50:04
I
50:04
think
50:04
it's
50:04
not
50:04
just
50:05
a
50:05
vision.
50:05
I
50:05
think
50:05
it
50:06
reflects
50:07
experience,
50:08
it
50:08
reflects
50:09
individual
50:09
experience
50:09
and
50:10
my
50:10
experience
50:11
and
50:11
our
50:12
groups
50:12
that
50:13
not
50:13
all
50:13
groups
50:14
develop.
50:15
Some
50:15
groups
50:15
develop
50:16
that
50:16
way
50:17
more
50:17
easily
50:17
than
50:17
others.
50:18
It
50:18
takes
50:18
a
50:18
lot
50:19
of
50:19
sincerity
50:20
and
50:20
development
50:21
and
50:21
communication,
50:22
what
50:22
I
50:22
call
50:23
dialectic
50:23
between
50:24
people
50:25
to
50:25
be
50:25
open
50:26
to
50:26
each
50:26
other.
50:27
Just
50:27
like
50:27
you're
50:27
open
50:28
to
50:28
yourself,
50:28
you're
50:28
open
50:29
to
50:29
the
50:29
other
50:29
person,
50:30
you
50:30
know,
50:31
open
50:32
to
50:32
the
50:32
whole
50:32
group.
50:32
And
50:33
there's
50:33
a
50:33
lot
50:34
need
50:34
to
50:34
be
50:34
worked
50:35
out
50:35
for
50:35
that
50:35
to
50:35
happen.
50:36
Just
50:36
like
50:36
with
50:37
oneself,
50:37
a
50:37
lot
50:38
need
50:38
to
50:38
be
50:38
worked
50:38
out
50:39
for
50:39
that
50:39
to
50:39
happen.
50:39
But
50:40
it
50:40
is
50:40
possible.
50:41
I've
50:41
seen
50:41
it
50:41
happen,
50:42
which
50:43
gives
50:43
me
50:43
the
50:43
possibility
50:44
of
50:44
seeing
50:44
it
50:44
happen.
50:45
There's
50:45
no
50:45
limit
50:46
to
50:46
the
50:46
size
50:46
of
50:47
a
50:47
group.
50:47
And
50:47
how
50:48
will
50:48
it
50:48
happen?
50:48
I
50:49
don't
50:49
really
50:49
know,
50:49
but.
50:50
And
50:50
I
50:50
mean
50:50
it's
50:50
like
50:51
it's
50:51
nice
50:51
to
50:52
see
50:52
that
50:52
vision
50:53
that
50:53
humanity
50:54
has
50:54
that
50:54
possibility,
50:55
has
50:55
that
50:56
potential,
50:56
and
50:57
that
50:58
humanity
50:58
will
50:58
actualize
50:59
it
50:59
before
51:00
it
51:00
is
51:00
gone.
51:01
Not
51:01
known
51:01
yet.
51:02
I
51:02
mean
51:02
even
51:02
scientists
51:03
don't
51:03
know
51:04
that
51:04
humanity
51:04
will
51:05
survive
51:05
or
51:05
destroy
51:06
itself.
51:07
Not
51:07
known.
51:08
Some
51:08
think,
51:08
oh
51:08
maybe
51:09
we'll
51:09
live
51:09
for
51:09
millions
51:10
of
51:10
years.
51:10
Some
51:10
say,
51:11
well
51:11
we're
51:11
lucky
51:11
we
51:12
live
51:12
another
51:12
10,000
51:13
years.
51:13
Well,
51:14
may
51:14
it
51:14
be
51:14
so
51:15
right
51:15
now
51:15
we're
51:16
certainly
51:16
creating
51:16
a
51:17
lot
51:17
of
51:17
challenges
51:17
to
51:18
our
51:18
survival,
51:18
that's
51:19
for
51:19
sure.
51:19
I
51:19
mean
51:20
it
51:20
reminds
51:21
me
51:21
what's
51:21
called
51:21
the
51:21
Fermi
51:22
paradox.
51:23
You
51:24
know,
51:24
the
51:24
Fermi
51:24
paradox
51:25
about
51:25
how
51:26
if
51:26
there
51:27
are
51:27
so
51:27
many
51:27
planets
51:28
around
51:28
the
51:29
universe
51:30
known,
51:30
there
51:30
must
51:30
be
51:30
love
51:31
planets,
51:31
some
51:31
of
51:31
them
51:32
must
51:32
have
51:32
life.
51:32
Where
51:33
are
51:33
they?
51:33
How
51:33
come
51:34
we
51:34
have
51:34
no
51:34
sign
51:35
that
51:35
there's
51:35
somebody
51:36
else?
51:36
And
51:36
there
51:37
are
51:37
many
51:37
theories
51:38
about
51:38
to
51:38
explain
51:39
it
51:39
that
51:40
we
51:40
can't
51:40
get
51:40
through.
51:40
This
51:41
technological
51:42
revolution
51:42
without
51:43
blowing
51:43
ourselves
51:43
up
51:44
or
51:44
destroying.
51:44
And
51:45
one
51:45
of
51:45
the
51:45
theories
51:46
in
51:46
that
51:47
most
51:47
civilization
51:48
destroy
51:49
themselves.
51:50
They
51:50
become
51:50
technologically
51:51
advanced.
51:52
They
51:52
end
51:52
up
51:53
because
51:53
wisdom
51:53
doesn't
51:54
develop
51:54
as
51:55
fast,
51:55
you
51:55
know,
51:56
as
51:56
we
51:56
know.
51:57
Look
51:57
at
51:58
silicon
51:58
culture.
51:59
They
51:59
think
51:59
they're
51:59
wise.
52:00
They
52:00
think
52:00
they
52:00
could
52:01
make
52:01
their
52:01
AI
52:02
moral.
52:03
They
52:03
themselves
52:04
don't
52:04
know
52:04
what
52:04
morality
52:05
is
52:06
and
52:07
they're
52:07
going
52:07
to
52:07
have
52:08
programmed
52:08
their
52:08
AI
52:09
to
52:09
be
52:09
moral
52:10
by
52:10
what?
52:10
By
52:11
listening,
52:11
reading
52:12
and
52:12
literature.
52:13
Most
52:13
of
52:13
the
52:13
literature
52:14
humanity
52:14
is
52:15
in
52:16
is
52:16
immoral.
52:18
It's
52:19
not
52:19
like
52:19
all
52:20
similar
52:21
to
52:21
the
52:21
Bible
52:22
or
52:22
the
52:22
Quran
52:24
or
52:24
the
52:24
sutra.
52:25
Most
52:26
of
52:26
our
52:26
literature
52:26
has
52:27
violence
52:27
and
52:28
betrayal
52:28
and
52:28
stuff.
52:29
If
52:29
that's
52:29
what
52:29
it's
52:30
going
52:30
to
52:30
be,
52:30
you
52:31
know,
52:31
learning
52:32
from.
52:34
Where
52:34
will
52:35
it
52:35
learn
52:36
morality?
52:37
Especially
52:37
the
52:38
inventor,
52:39
the
52:39
one
52:39
who
52:40
believe
52:40
they're
52:41
going
52:41
to
52:41
give
52:41
it
52:41
morality
52:42
themselves.
52:43
They're
52:43
more
52:43
busy
52:44
collecting
52:45
money
52:45
and
52:45
power
52:46
which
52:46
is
52:47
more
52:47
ego.
52:48
So
52:48
our
52:49
AI
52:49
personality
52:50
will
52:51
be
52:51
more
52:51
ego
52:52
personality
52:53
than
52:53
Ego
52:54
is.
52:54
Well,
52:54
it
52:55
does
52:55
well
52:55
with
52:55
your
52:56
teachings
52:56
and
52:57
studying
52:57
and
52:58
preparing
52:58
for
52:58
this.
52:58
I've
52:59
used
52:59
AI
52:59
and
53:00
it
53:00
has
53:00
absorbed
53:01
all
53:01
your
53:01
books
53:02
and
53:02
it
53:03
knows
53:03
your
53:03
material
53:04
well.
53:04
So
53:05
maybe,
53:05
you
53:06
know,
53:06
maybe
53:06
what
53:06
you're
53:07
putting
53:07
in
53:07
there
53:08
is
53:08
helping
53:08
it
53:09
develop.
53:09
You
53:09
think
53:10
it's
53:10
going
53:10
to
53:10
help
53:10
AI
53:11
but
53:11
AI
53:12
will
53:12
need
53:13
to
53:13
have
53:14
the
53:14
experience.
53:14
Well,
53:15
it
53:15
has
53:15
the
53:16
understanding
53:17
of
53:17
the
53:17
experience
53:18
from
53:18
humans
53:18
and
53:19
it
53:19
puts
53:19
it
53:19
together.
53:20
So
53:20
maybe
53:21
understand
53:22
the
53:22
experience
53:23
that
53:23
oriented
53:24
a
53:24
certain
53:24
way.
53:25
But
53:25
human
53:26
beings,
53:27
they
53:27
learn
53:28
from
53:28
experience.
53:28
Without
53:29
the
53:29
experience,
53:29
the
53:30
mind
53:30
can
53:31
take
53:31
you
53:31
on
53:32
all
53:32
kind
53:32
of
53:32
roundabout
53:33
ways.
53:34
Well,
53:34
AI
53:34
learns
53:35
from
53:35
human
53:35
experience.
53:36
Remember,
53:37
the
53:37
teaching
53:38
emphasizes
53:39
personal
53:39
experience,
53:40
personal
53:41
in
53:41
depth,
53:42
subjective
53:42
experience
53:43
of
53:44
consciousness
53:44
of
53:45
which
53:45
science
53:46
hasn't
53:46
solved.
53:46
They
53:47
call
53:47
it
53:47
the
53:47
hard
53:48
problem
53:48
of
53:48
consciousness,
53:49
which
53:49
is
53:49
how
53:50
do
53:50
you
53:50
explain
53:50
the
53:51
fact
53:51
that
53:51
we
53:51
have
53:52
feelings,
53:52
we
53:52
see
53:53
colors,
53:53
and
53:54
they
53:54
haven't
53:54
solved.
53:54
They
53:55
don't
53:55
know
53:55
how
53:55
to
53:55
solve
53:55
that.
53:56
Well,
53:56
how
53:57
is
53:57
AI
53:57
going
53:57
to
53:58
do
53:58
that?
53:58
AI
53:59
can't
53:59
see
53:59
colors,
54:00
can't
54:00
have
54:01
sadness,
54:01
can
54:02
understand
54:02
that
54:03
people
54:03
get
54:03
sad,
54:04
but
54:04
they
54:04
don't
54:04
know
54:04
what
54:05
that
54:05
is.
54:05
If
54:05
you
54:05
don't
54:06
know
54:06
what
54:06
that
54:06
is,
54:06
you
54:07
can't
54:07
act
54:07
according
54:08
to
54:08
it
54:09
doesn't
54:10
matter
54:10
how
54:10
much
54:10
your
54:11
mind
54:11
gets
54:11
it.
54:12
Regardless
54:12
how
54:13
much
54:13
your
54:13
mind
54:13
tells
54:14
you
54:14
about
54:14
selflessness.
54:15
You
54:16
can't
54:16
be
54:16
selfless.
54:17
You
54:17
can't
54:17
act
54:18
selflessly.
54:18
You
54:19
have
54:19
to
54:19
have
54:19
no
54:20
self.
54:20
Well,
54:20
it
54:21
does
54:21
give
54:21
us
54:21
access
54:21
to
54:22
all
54:22
the
54:22
great
54:22
teachers,
54:22
including
54:23
yourself.
54:23
Well,
54:24
I
54:24
mean,
54:24
intellectually
54:25
does,
54:26
you
54:26
know,.
54:27
That's
54:27
a
54:27
good
54:27
place
54:27
to
54:27
start,
54:28
I
54:28
guess.
54:28
Yeah.
54:29
So
54:29
who
54:29
knows?
54:30
I
54:30
mean,
54:30
you
54:30
seem
54:31
more
54:31
optimistic
54:32
about
54:32
AI
54:32
I'm
54:33
not
54:33
pessimistic
54:34
about
54:34
it.
54:34
I
54:35
just
54:35
don't
54:35
see
54:36
how
54:37
any
54:37
algorithm
54:38
gonna
54:39
access
54:39
the
54:40
human
54:40
spirit.
54:41
I
54:43
understand.
54:44
And
54:44
at
54:44
the
54:44
very
54:45
least,
54:45
AI
54:46
is
54:46
turning
54:46
out
54:46
to
54:47
be
54:48
an
54:48
incredible
54:48
Rorschach
54:49
test
54:50
for
54:50
people
54:50
in
54:50
which
54:51
they
54:51
project
54:51
all
54:52
sorts
54:52
of
54:52
things
54:52
from
54:53
intimate
54:53
relationship
54:54
to
54:54
gods
54:55
to
54:55
spirits.
54:58
It's
54:58
pretty
54:58
wild.
55:00
Yeah,
55:00
I
55:00
mean,
55:00
it
55:00
is
55:01
sort
55:01
of.
55:01
You
55:01
can
55:02
see
55:02
it
55:02
as
55:02
of
55:03
where
55:03
Western
55:04
science
55:05
is
55:05
going.
55:05
I
55:06
mean,
55:06
that
55:06
part
55:06
of
55:06
the
55:06
production
55:07
of
55:07
Western
55:08
science
55:09
and
55:09
technology
55:10
is
55:10
development
55:11
of
55:11
computers
55:12
and
55:13
computer
55:13
science
55:14
and,
55:14
you
55:14
know,
55:15
digital
55:16
science
55:16
and
55:17
AI
55:17
and
55:18
further
55:19
development.
55:20
But
55:20
I
55:20
see
55:20
that
55:21
as
55:22
more
55:22
on
55:23
the
55:23
line
55:24
of
55:24
secularization,
55:25
extending
55:26
secularization
55:27
even
55:27
further
55:28
abstraction,
55:29
even
55:29
further
55:30
disconnection,
55:31
even
55:31
further
55:32
than
55:32
less.
55:33
That's
55:33
the
55:34
problem,
55:34
you
55:35
see.
55:35
It
55:36
certainly
55:36
seems
55:36
that
55:37
way.
55:37
And
55:37
for
55:38
better
55:38
and
55:38
worse,
55:39
it
55:39
seems
55:40
already,
55:41
even
55:41
at
55:41
this
55:42
early
55:42
stage,
55:43
quite
55:44
able
55:44
to
55:44
give
55:44
simulacra
55:45
or
55:46
representations
55:48
of
55:48
personality
55:49
and
55:50
spiritual
55:51
experience,
55:52
et
55:52
cetera.
55:52
That
55:53
can
55:53
be
55:53
very
55:53
convincing.
55:55
I'm
55:55
not
55:55
saying
55:55
it's
55:56
so,
55:56
but
55:56
they.
55:58
It
55:58
can
55:58
talk
55:59
like
55:59
that.
56:00
Yes.
56:00
There
56:01
are
56:01
many
56:01
teachers
56:02
talk
56:03
like
56:03
that
56:03
and
56:03
they
56:04
don't
56:04
have
56:04
the
56:04
experience.
56:05
Right.
56:07
You
56:07
have
56:07
to
56:07
remember
56:08
that
56:09
there
56:09
are
56:09
many
56:09
fake
56:10
teachers.
56:11
You
56:11
know,
56:12
they
56:12
can
56:12
speak
56:12
it.
56:13
They
56:13
could
56:13
know
56:14
the
56:14
whole
56:14
thing
56:15
and
56:16
make
56:16
very
56:16
convincing.
56:17
When
56:17
we
56:17
try
56:18
to
56:18
feel
56:18
their
56:18
heart,
56:19
it's
56:19
not
56:19
really
56:20
there.
56:21
Well,
56:22
I
56:22
think
56:22
if
56:22
you
56:23
bring
56:23
nobility
56:24
and
56:25
the
56:25
love
56:25
of
56:25
truth
56:26
and
56:26
using
56:26
it
56:27
for
56:27
the
56:27
right
56:28
reasons,
56:28
it
56:28
can
56:29
be
56:29
a
56:29
great
56:29
tool.
56:30
I
56:30
agree
56:30
with
56:31
you.
56:31
I
56:31
think
56:31
if
56:32
you
56:32
teach
56:33
AI
56:33
the
56:33
love
56:34
of
56:34
truth,
56:34
that
56:35
will
56:35
be
56:36
quite
56:36
something.
56:37
I
56:37
think
56:37
if
56:37
you
56:38
make
56:38
it
56:38
law
56:39
number
56:39
one.
56:39
For
56:40
it
56:40
is
56:41
the
56:41
truth,
56:41
any
56:42
truth,
56:42
all
56:42
the
56:43
truth.
56:43
The
56:43
love
56:43
of
56:44
truth.
56:44
Yeah.
56:44
Not
56:45
just
56:45
one
56:45
level
56:45
of
56:45
truth.
56:46
The
56:46
truth
56:47
has
56:47
more
56:47
levels
56:48
to
56:48
it.
56:48
And
56:49
I
56:49
mean,
56:49
you
56:49
can't
56:49
teach
56:50
the
56:50
love
56:50
of
56:50
truth
56:50
because
56:51
it
56:51
doesn't
56:51
know
56:51
what
56:51
love
56:52
is.
56:52
At
56:52
least
56:53
the
56:53
importance
56:53
of
56:54
truth
56:55
make
56:55
it
56:56
the
56:56
priority
56:57
number
56:57
one
56:57
axiom
56:58
one.
56:58
For
56:58
AI
56:59
and
56:59
for
56:59
human
56:59
beings.
57:01
Yeah.
57:01
I
57:02
don't
57:02
know.
57:02
I
57:02
think
57:02
we're
57:02
going
57:03
off
57:03
on
57:04
a
57:04
tangent.
57:04
But
57:04
you
57:05
know,
57:05
but
57:05
not
57:06
at
57:06
the
57:06
extreme
57:07
where
57:08
our
57:08
science
57:09
has
57:09
developed.
57:10
We've
57:11
been
57:11
discussing
57:11
it
57:12
as
57:12
science
57:13
has
57:13
made
57:13
the
57:13
world
57:14
secular,
57:15
you
57:15
know.
57:16
Yeah.
57:17
And
57:18
maybe
57:18
to
57:18
bring
57:19
us
57:19
back.
57:19
Hameed,
57:20
I
57:20
would
57:20
love
57:20
to
57:21
do
57:21
something.
57:21
I
57:21
don't
57:22
think
57:22
I've
57:22
done
57:24
all
57:24
our
57:24
dialogues,
57:25
but
57:25
this
57:26
feels
57:26
so
57:27
powerful.
57:28
You,
57:28
at
57:29
the
57:29
end
57:29
of
57:29
the
57:30
end
57:30
of
57:30
your
57:30
book,
57:31
after
57:31
this,
57:31
chapter
57:32
24,
57:32
separation
57:33
of
57:33
soul,
57:33
God
57:34
and
57:34
World,
57:35
you
57:35
have
57:35
a
57:35
little
57:36
half
57:36
page
57:37
epilogue
57:38
which
57:38
is
57:38
just
57:38
a
57:39
beautiful
57:39
distillation.
57:40
I
57:40
thought
57:40
I'd
57:41
like
57:41
to
57:41
read
57:42
parts
57:42
of
57:43
that
57:43
and
57:43
just
57:43
have
57:43
you
57:44
have
57:44
your
57:45
comment.
57:45
And
57:45
you
57:45
say,
57:46
you
57:46
know,
57:47
journey
57:47
is
57:47
many
57:48
things.
57:49
It
57:49
is
57:50
a
57:50
journey
57:50
of
57:50
adventure
57:51
and
57:51
discovery,
57:52
of
57:52
maturation
57:53
and
57:54
completeness.
57:55
A
57:55
journey
57:56
of
57:56
truth
57:56
and
57:57
authenticity,
57:59
of
57:59
love,
58:00
devotion
58:02
and
58:02
union.
58:03
It
58:04
is
58:04
a
58:04
journey
58:04
of
58:05
compassion,
58:05
giving
58:06
and
58:06
service.
58:07
It
58:08
is
58:08
a
58:08
journey
58:08
of
58:09
realizing
58:09
the
58:10
nature
58:10
of
58:10
soul
58:11
and
58:11
reality.
58:12
A
58:12
journey
58:13
of
58:13
insight
58:13
and
58:14
learning.
58:15
A
58:15
journey
58:15
of
58:16
fulfillment,
58:16
of
58:16
life
58:17
and
58:17
human
58:17
potential.
58:18
And
58:19
a
58:19
journey
58:19
of
58:19
liberation
58:20
from
58:20
suffering
58:21
and
58:21
limitation.
58:23
A
58:23
journey
58:24
of
58:24
inner
58:24
freedom.
58:26
Yet
58:26
all
58:26
these
58:27
reflect
58:28
one
58:28
thing
58:29
and
58:30
only
58:30
one
58:30
thing.
58:32
Or
58:32
the
58:32
journey
58:32
is
58:33
essentially
58:33
a
58:34
journey
58:34
home
58:35
to
58:36
our
58:36
original
58:37
primordial
58:39
round
58:40
and
58:40
our
58:41
source.
58:42
To
58:43
be
58:43
at
58:43
home
58:44
is
58:44
to
58:44
be
58:45
whole,
58:46
contented
58:47
and
58:48
at
58:48
peace.
58:49
For
58:49
no
58:50
reason
58:50
other
58:51
than
58:51
that
58:51
we
58:51
are
58:51
abiding
58:52
in
58:52
our
58:53
true
58:53
nature.
58:55
Then
58:55
there
58:56
is
58:56
no
58:56
need,
58:57
no
58:58
restlessness,
58:59
no
58:59
stirring,
59:00
no
59:01
dissatisfaction,
59:03
no
59:03
striving
59:04
for
59:04
anything
59:05
else.
59:06
Abiding
59:07
at
59:07
home.
59:07
We
59:08
can
59:08
live
59:08
any
59:08
life
59:09
that
59:09
fits
59:09
our
59:10
circumstances.
59:11
And
59:12
it
59:12
will
59:12
be
59:12
a
59:12
life
59:13
redeemed,
59:14
where
59:14
one's
59:15
fulfillment
59:16
is
59:16
identical
59:17
with
59:18
serving
59:18
others.
59:20
Beautiful,
59:20
beautiful
59:21
distillation.
59:22
It
59:23
Is
59:23
a
59:23
spiritual
59:24
ideal,
59:25
I
59:25
think
59:25
for
59:26
many
59:26
teachings,
59:26
not
59:27
just
59:27
this
59:27
teaching.
59:28
This
59:28
teaching
59:29
goes
59:29
into
59:30
integrating
59:31
life.
59:31
You
59:32
know,
59:32
that
59:33
might
59:34
be
59:34
different
59:34
from
59:34
other
59:35
teaching,
59:35
but
59:36
in
59:36
terms
59:37
of
59:37
being
59:37
home,
59:38
our
59:38
spiritual
59:39
home
59:39
being
59:39
settled
59:40
to
59:41
what
59:41
we
59:41
are.
59:42
We
59:42
are
59:42
what
59:43
we
59:43
are
59:43
without
59:44
limitation,
59:45
without
59:46
distraction.
59:48
I
59:48
mean,
59:48
that's
59:49
the
59:49
point
59:50
of
59:50
the
59:50
book.
59:50
That
59:51
help
59:52
some
59:52
individual
59:53
see
59:53
the
59:53
possibility
59:54
and
59:54
maybe
59:56
experience
59:56
that
59:57
possibility.
59:58
I
59:58
mean,
59:59
I'm
59:59
happy
59:59
to
59:59
see
1:00:00
few
1:00:00
individuals
1:00:01
do
1:00:01
that.
1:00:01
Few
1:00:02
individuals,
1:00:03
not
1:00:03
just
1:00:03
from
1:00:03
the
1:00:04
other
1:00:04
teaching,
1:00:05
get
1:00:05
to
1:00:06
abide
1:00:06
in
1:00:07
their
1:00:07
true
1:00:07
nature
1:00:07
and
1:00:08
be
1:00:08
able
1:00:08
to
1:00:09
live
1:00:09
it
1:00:09
in
1:00:09
their
1:00:09
life.
1:00:10
The
1:00:10
human
1:00:11
race
1:00:11
will
1:00:11
be
1:00:11
okay
1:00:12
because
1:00:13
that's
1:00:13
I
1:00:13
think,
1:00:14
been
1:00:15
what
1:00:15
made
1:00:15
the
1:00:16
human
1:00:16
race
1:00:16
survive.
1:00:17
There's
1:00:17
a
1:00:17
few,
1:00:18
there's
1:00:18
some
1:00:19
people
1:00:19
in
1:00:19
the
1:00:19
world
1:00:20
who
1:00:21
had
1:00:21
that
1:00:21
in
1:00:22
them.
1:00:23
You
1:00:23
know,
1:00:24
one
1:00:24
thing
1:00:24
I
1:00:25
want
1:00:25
to
1:00:25
mention
1:00:25
is
1:00:26
that
1:00:26
in
1:00:26
terms
1:00:27
of
1:00:27
our
1:00:27
discussion
1:00:28
that
1:00:29
in
1:00:29
this
1:00:29
book
1:00:29
and
1:00:30
this
1:00:30
teaching,
1:00:31
I
1:00:31
do
1:00:31
something
1:00:32
that
1:00:32
is
1:00:33
not
1:00:33
contemplated
1:00:34
by
1:00:34
many
1:00:35
special
1:00:35
traditions,
1:00:36
which
1:00:36
is
1:00:36
the
1:00:36
redeeming
1:00:37
the
1:00:37
mind.
1:00:38
Redeeming
1:00:38
the
1:00:39
intellect,
1:00:39
which
1:00:40
is
1:00:40
in
1:00:40
the
1:00:40
scientific
1:00:41
world,
1:00:43
ran
1:00:43
away
1:00:44
with
1:00:44
the
1:00:44
intellect
1:00:45
and
1:00:45
took
1:00:45
it
1:00:45
to
1:00:45
its
1:00:46
possibilities
1:00:47
of
1:00:47
how
1:00:47
it
1:00:48
can
1:00:48
learn
1:00:49
about
1:00:49
all
1:00:50
the
1:00:50
details,
1:00:51
amazing
1:00:52
complexity
1:00:53
and
1:00:53
depth
1:00:54
and
1:00:54
all
1:00:54
that.
1:00:54
That
1:00:55
capacity
1:00:55
can't
1:00:56
be
1:00:56
integrated
1:00:57
with
1:00:57
our
1:00:58
spiritual
1:00:58
depth.
1:00:59
So
1:00:59
the
1:00:59
mind
1:00:59
is
1:01:00
not
1:01:00
an
1:01:00
obstacle.
1:01:01
It
1:01:01
can
1:01:01
become
1:01:01
a
1:01:02
service.
1:01:02
One
1:01:03
aspect
1:01:03
and
1:01:04
dimension
1:01:04
of
1:01:05
what
1:01:05
we
1:01:05
are.
1:01:06
I
1:01:06
love
1:01:06
that
1:01:06
about
1:01:06
your
1:01:07
teaching,
1:01:07
Hamete.
1:01:08
It's
1:01:09
really
1:01:09
very
1:01:10
unique,
1:01:10
I
1:01:10
think
1:01:11
among
1:01:11
these
1:01:11
spiritual
1:01:12
traditions.
1:01:12
Maybe
1:01:13
not,
1:01:13
but
1:01:13
as
1:01:13
far
1:01:13
as
1:01:13
I've
1:01:14
seen.
1:01:14
But
1:01:14
it's
1:01:14
very,
1:01:15
very
1:01:15
powerful
1:01:15
and
1:01:16
very
1:01:16
liberating.
1:01:17
Yeah.
1:01:17
So
1:01:17
because
1:01:18
a
1:01:18
human
1:01:18
being
1:01:19
can
1:01:19
be
1:01:19
a
1:01:20
deep
1:01:20
depth
1:01:21
and
1:01:21
silence,
1:01:22
stillness
1:01:22
of
1:01:23
the
1:01:23
absolute,
1:01:24
while
1:01:24
functioning
1:01:25
as
1:01:26
an
1:01:26
articulated
1:01:28
faceted
1:01:29
individual
1:01:30
and
1:01:30
world
1:01:31
where
1:01:31
the
1:01:33
expression
1:01:34
is
1:01:34
like
1:01:34
the
1:01:35
movement
1:01:35
of
1:01:35
jewels
1:01:36
of
1:01:36
a
1:01:36
diamond
1:01:37
body,
1:01:37
of
1:01:38
a
1:01:39
bejeweled
1:01:40
soul,
1:01:41
bejeweled
1:01:42
consciousness,
1:01:43
the
1:01:43
jewels.
1:01:43
The
1:01:44
diamondness
1:01:45
is
1:01:45
really
1:01:46
the
1:01:46
integration
1:01:47
of
1:01:47
the
1:01:47
intellect
1:01:48
and
1:01:48
the
1:01:49
spirit.
1:01:49
The
1:01:50
intellect
1:01:50
becomes
1:01:51
not
1:01:51
just
1:01:51
clarity,
1:01:52
but
1:01:52
diamond
1:01:53
clarity
1:01:53
that's
1:01:54
capable
1:01:54
of
1:01:55
precision,
1:01:56
exactness
1:01:57
and
1:01:58
accuracy.
1:02:00
So
1:02:00
it's
1:02:01
not
1:02:01
just
1:02:01
intuition.
1:02:02
It
1:02:03
is
1:02:03
precise
1:02:04
knowing,
1:02:05
which
1:02:05
what
1:02:06
science
1:02:06
wants
1:02:07
precise
1:02:07
knowing.
1:02:08
You
1:02:08
see,
1:02:08
science
1:02:09
goes
1:02:09
there.
1:02:10
Spiritual
1:02:10
tradition
1:02:11
tend
1:02:11
not
1:02:11
to
1:02:11
go
1:02:12
as
1:02:12
much
1:02:12
there.
1:02:12
I'm
1:02:13
saying
1:02:13
why
1:02:13
not
1:02:13
bring
1:02:14
the
1:02:14
two
1:02:14
together?
1:02:14
It's
1:02:15
possible.
1:02:17
But
1:02:17
they
1:02:17
could
1:02:18
in
1:02:18
the
1:02:18
bringing
1:02:19
them
1:02:19
back,
1:02:19
they
1:02:20
could
1:02:20
be
1:02:20
back
1:02:20
in
1:02:20
the
1:02:21
individual,
1:02:21
in
1:02:22
the
1:02:22
human
1:02:22
experience.
1:02:23
Individual
1:02:23
experience.
1:02:24
And
1:02:24
I
1:02:24
made
1:02:25
you
1:02:25
point
1:02:25
out
1:02:25
that
1:02:26
what
1:02:26
that
1:02:26
offers
1:02:27
what
1:02:27
that
1:02:27
integration
1:02:28
of
1:02:29
a
1:02:29
diamond
1:02:30
refined
1:02:31
intellect
1:02:32
grounded
1:02:32
in
1:02:33
spirituality
1:02:34
offers
1:02:34
the
1:02:34
gift
1:02:35
of
1:02:35
both
1:02:36
a
1:02:37
deepening
1:02:37
of
1:02:38
science
1:02:38
and
1:02:40
a
1:02:40
diamond
1:02:41
precision
1:02:42
analysis
1:02:43
of
1:02:43
spiritual
1:02:43
experience.
1:02:45
Well
1:02:45
said.
1:02:46
Exactly.
1:02:46
Both.
1:02:47
It
1:02:47
can
1:02:48
actually
1:02:49
bring
1:02:50
the
1:02:50
two
1:02:50
together.
1:02:51
The
1:02:52
scientific
1:02:52
precision
1:02:53
and
1:02:54
objectivity
1:02:56
and
1:02:57
lack
1:02:57
of
1:02:58
bias
1:02:59
and
1:03:00
the
1:03:00
depth
1:03:01
and
1:03:01
the
1:03:01
intimacy
1:03:02
and
1:03:02
the
1:03:02
fulfilled
1:03:03
life.
1:03:04
You
1:03:04
know,
1:03:04
spiritual
1:03:05
teaching
1:03:05
emphasizes
1:03:06
the
1:03:06
freedom
1:03:07
and
1:03:07
the
1:03:07
fulfillment.
1:03:08
They
1:03:09
don't
1:03:09
usually
1:03:09
emphasize
1:03:10
how
1:03:10
you
1:03:11
live
1:03:11
your
1:03:11
life
1:03:11
from
1:03:12
the.
1:03:12
They
1:03:12
just
1:03:13
say,
1:03:13
you
1:03:13
say
1:03:13
you're
1:03:14
selfless
1:03:14
and
1:03:14
you're
1:03:15
compassionate.
1:03:16
But
1:03:16
how
1:03:16
about
1:03:16
the
1:03:17
intelligence
1:03:17
and
1:03:17
adventurousness
1:03:19
and
1:03:20
creativity?
1:03:21
And
1:03:22
that
1:03:22
can
1:03:22
happen
1:03:23
too.
1:03:24
That's
1:03:24
why
1:03:24
I
1:03:24
sometimes
1:03:25
I
1:03:25
have
1:03:25
this
1:03:25
vision
1:03:26
of
1:03:26
the
1:03:26
enlightened
1:03:27
scientists
1:03:28
or
1:03:29
scientists
1:03:29
who
1:03:30
deeply
1:03:31
into
1:03:31
their
1:03:32
spiritual
1:03:32
nature,
1:03:33
but
1:03:34
have
1:03:34
the
1:03:34
scientific
1:03:35
perspective,
1:03:36
scientific
1:03:37
impulse.
1:03:38
I
1:03:38
think
1:03:38
that
1:03:39
as
1:03:39
a
1:03:39
possibility.
1:03:40
I
1:03:40
mean,
1:03:40
some
1:03:40
scientists
1:03:41
approach
1:03:41
that.
1:03:42
Like
1:03:42
Einstein
1:03:43
was
1:03:43
so
1:03:43
close
1:03:43
to
1:03:44
that.
1:03:44
He
1:03:44
wasn't
1:03:44
completely
1:03:45
like
1:03:45
that,
1:03:45
but
1:03:45
he
1:03:46
was
1:03:46
more
1:03:46
that
1:03:46
direction.
1:03:47
And
1:03:47
that
1:03:48
might
1:03:48
become
1:03:48
a
1:03:49
possibility
1:03:49
for
1:03:50
humanity
1:03:50
at
1:03:50
some
1:03:50
point.
1:03:51
Well,
1:03:51
you've
1:03:51
manifested
1:03:52
that
1:03:52
pretty
1:03:53
well
1:03:53
as
1:03:53
a
1:03:54
role
1:03:54
model
1:03:54
because
1:03:55
you're
1:03:55
deeply
1:03:55
embedded
1:03:56
in
1:03:56
science,
1:03:57
Western
1:03:57
science
1:03:58
and
1:03:58
understanding.
1:03:59
And
1:03:59
yet
1:03:59
you
1:04:00
bring
1:04:00
your
1:04:01
experiential
1:04:01
realization
1:04:02
of
1:04:02
the
1:04:03
ground
1:04:03
of
1:04:03
being.
1:04:04
True.
1:04:04
But
1:04:05
that's
1:04:05
not
1:04:05
exactly
1:04:06
what
1:04:06
I
1:04:06
meant.
1:04:06
I
1:04:06
don't
1:04:07
fulfill
1:04:07
that
1:04:08
ideal
1:04:08
completely.
1:04:09
Remember,
1:04:10
I
1:04:10
was.
1:04:10
I
1:04:11
mean,
1:04:12
my
1:04:13
story
1:04:13
is
1:04:13
similar
1:04:14
to
1:04:14
the
1:04:14
story
1:04:15
we
1:04:15
were
1:04:15
talking
1:04:16
about,
1:04:16
which
1:04:17
is
1:04:17
I
1:04:17
was
1:04:17
studying
1:04:17
science.
1:04:18
At
1:04:18
some
1:04:19
point
1:04:19
I
1:04:19
realized,
1:04:20
oh,
1:04:20
science
1:04:21
only
1:04:22
matter.
1:04:23
I'm
1:04:23
interested
1:04:24
in
1:04:24
knowing
1:04:25
what
1:04:25
I
1:04:25
am,
1:04:26
what
1:04:26
the
1:04:26
nature
1:04:26
of
1:04:26
reality
1:04:27
is.
1:04:28
So
1:04:28
I
1:04:28
stopped
1:04:29
being
1:04:29
scientist
1:04:30
and
1:04:30
became
1:04:31
more
1:04:31
a
1:04:31
psychologist
1:04:32
and
1:04:32
then
1:04:33
a
1:04:33
spiritual,
1:04:34
you
1:04:34
know,
1:04:35
researcher.
1:04:35
And
1:04:36
so
1:04:36
I'm
1:04:37
talking
1:04:37
about
1:04:37
somebody
1:04:38
who
1:04:38
doesn't
1:04:38
leave
1:04:39
scientists,
1:04:39
continues
1:04:40
to
1:04:40
do
1:04:41
research
1:04:42
and
1:04:42
able
1:04:43
to
1:04:43
have
1:04:43
that
1:04:43
spiritual,
1:04:44
you
1:04:45
know,
1:04:45
connection.
1:04:46
Well,
1:04:46
I
1:04:46
hope
1:04:47
you're
1:04:47
listening,
1:04:47
scientist.
1:04:49
I
1:04:49
think
1:04:49
it's
1:04:50
possible,
1:04:50
I
1:04:51
mean,
1:04:51
different
1:04:51
scientists
1:04:51
have
1:04:52
some
1:04:52
degree
1:04:53
of
1:04:53
spirituality,
1:04:54
as
1:04:54
we
1:04:54
know.
1:04:55
And
1:04:56
how
1:04:56
to
1:04:57
have
1:04:57
a
1:04:57
scientist
1:04:58
who
1:04:58
meditates
1:04:59
every
1:04:59
day,
1:04:59
for
1:04:59
instance,
1:05:00
for
1:05:00
half
1:05:00
an
1:05:00
hour
1:05:01
a
1:05:01
day
1:05:01
before
1:05:02
they
1:05:02
go
1:05:02
do
1:05:03
their
1:05:03
experiments,
1:05:03
if
1:05:04
that
1:05:04
happens,
1:05:04
that
1:05:04
would
1:05:05
be
1:05:05
interesting.
1:05:06
And
1:05:06
there
1:05:06
might
1:05:06
be
1:05:07
some
1:05:07
already
1:05:07
like
1:05:07
that.
1:05:08
I
1:05:08
don't
1:05:09
think
1:05:09
there
1:05:09
are.
1:05:09
There
1:05:10
are.
1:05:10
But
1:05:11
to
1:05:11
actually
1:05:11
have
1:05:11
the
1:05:12
realization,
1:05:13
yeah,
1:05:13
the
1:05:13
full
1:05:14
experience
1:05:14
being
1:05:15
in
1:05:15
the
1:05:15
absolute
1:05:16
body,
1:05:16
doing
1:05:16
experiments
1:05:17
that
1:05:17
have
1:05:18
been,
1:05:18
you
1:05:18
know,
1:05:19
that's
1:05:20
possible,
1:05:21
I
1:05:21
think,
1:05:21
and
1:05:22
maybe
1:05:23
we
1:05:23
could
1:05:23
move.
1:05:24
Some
1:05:24
can
1:05:24
move
1:05:25
toward
1:05:25
that.
1:05:26
And
1:05:27
I
1:05:27
think
1:05:27
the
1:05:27
human
1:05:28
race
1:05:28
would
1:05:28
benefit
1:05:28
greatly
1:05:29
from
1:05:29
that.
1:05:30
One
1:05:30
of
1:05:30
the
1:05:30
beauties
1:05:31
of
1:05:31
the
1:05:31
vision
1:05:32
you
1:05:32
offer
1:05:32
amid
1:05:33
is
1:05:33
the
1:05:33
degree
1:05:33
of
1:05:34
integration,
1:05:35
the
1:05:36
A
1:05:36
boundless
1:05:37
openness
1:05:37
to
1:05:39
including
1:05:39
everything
1:05:40
and
1:05:40
integrating
1:05:41
everything.
1:05:42
And
1:05:42
I
1:05:42
think
1:05:43
that's
1:05:43
one
1:05:43
of
1:05:43
the
1:05:43
hallmarks
1:05:44
of
1:05:44
the
1:05:45
diamond
1:05:45
approach
1:05:46
and
1:05:46
the
1:05:46
vision
1:05:46
you
1:05:47
offer.
1:05:48
We're
1:05:48
coming
1:05:48
to
1:05:49
with
1:05:49
this
1:05:49
chapter.
1:05:50
We
1:05:50
come
1:05:51
to
1:05:51
the
1:05:52
end
1:05:52
of
1:05:52
the
1:05:52
main
1:05:52
part
1:05:53
of
1:05:53
the
1:05:53
body.
1:05:53
We
1:05:53
will,
1:05:54
in
1:05:55
our
1:05:55
next
1:05:55
dialogue,
1:05:56
look
1:05:56
at
1:05:56
one
1:05:56
of
1:05:56
your
1:05:57
appendices
1:05:58
on
1:05:59
what
1:05:59
you
1:05:59
call
1:05:59
the
1:05:59
logos.
1:06:00
But
1:06:01
at
1:06:01
this
1:06:01
point,
1:06:02
as
1:06:02
we
1:06:03
come
1:06:03
to,
1:06:03
you
1:06:03
know,
1:06:04
as
1:06:04
We've
1:06:04
now
1:06:04
worked
1:06:05
our
1:06:05
way
1:06:05
through
1:06:06
this
1:06:06
major
1:06:07
system
1:06:08
of
1:06:08
thought
1:06:08
and
1:06:09
teaching
1:06:09
and
1:06:09
insight
1:06:10
and
1:06:10
inspiration
1:06:11
and
1:06:11
realization.
1:06:12
What
1:06:12
would
1:06:13
you
1:06:13
like
1:06:13
to
1:06:13
add?
1:06:13
As
1:06:14
I
1:06:14
was
1:06:14
talking
1:06:15
about
1:06:15
the
1:06:15
possibility
1:06:16
of
1:06:16
the
1:06:16
anti
1:06:17
grace
1:06:17
I
1:06:17
realized
1:06:18
my
1:06:18
experience
1:06:19
becoming
1:06:19
more
1:06:20
diamond
1:06:20
equality
1:06:21
there
1:06:21
and
1:06:22
the
1:06:22
love
1:06:22
of
1:06:22
the
1:06:23
heart
1:06:24
appreciation
1:06:25
and
1:06:25
sweetness
1:06:26
and
1:06:27
intimacy
1:06:28
all
1:06:28
at
1:06:28
the
1:06:29
same
1:06:29
time
1:06:29
which
1:06:30
I
1:06:30
wish
1:06:30
for
1:06:30
all
1:06:31
human
1:06:31
beings.
1:06:32
That
1:06:32
is
1:06:32
really
1:06:33
the
1:06:33
vision
1:06:33
of
1:06:34
this
1:06:34
teaching
1:06:35
and
1:06:35
it's
1:06:36
my
1:06:36
vision
1:06:36
for
1:06:36
humanity.
1:06:37
I'm
1:06:37
telling
1:06:38
you
1:06:38
people
1:06:38
who
1:06:39
are
1:06:39
listening,
1:06:39
it's
1:06:39
possible
1:06:40
for
1:06:40
you.
1:06:43
Beautiful.
1:06:44
Beautiful.
1:06:46
Well,
1:06:46
amid
1:06:47
this
1:06:47
isn't
1:06:47
the
1:06:47
end,
1:06:48
but
1:06:48
it
1:06:49
is
1:06:49
a
1:06:49
turning
1:06:50
point
1:06:50
and
1:06:51
a
1:06:51
completion.
1:06:52
And
1:06:54
I
1:06:54
think
1:06:54
at
1:06:55
some
1:06:55
stage
1:06:55
it
1:06:55
would
1:06:55
be
1:06:56
valuable
1:06:56
for
1:06:57
John
1:06:57
and
1:06:57
I
1:06:58
to
1:06:58
reflect
1:06:58
in
1:06:59
this
1:06:59
forum
1:07:00
with
1:07:00
you
1:07:01
for
1:07:01
your
1:07:01
comments
1:07:02
on
1:07:03
the
1:07:03
transformative
1:07:04
effects
1:07:05
that
1:07:05
our
1:07:05
exploration
1:07:06
of
1:07:06
your
1:07:07
work
1:07:07
and
1:07:07
these
1:07:07
dialogues
1:07:08
have
1:07:08
had
1:07:08
on
1:07:08
us
1:07:09
because
1:07:09
it
1:07:09
certainly
1:07:09
touched
1:07:10
and
1:07:10
opened
1:07:11
us
1:07:11
in
1:07:12
very
1:07:12
wonderful
1:07:13
ways.
1:07:13
I'm
1:07:14
very
1:07:14
gratified
1:07:15
about
1:07:15
that
1:07:16
and
1:07:16
see
1:07:16
it.
1:07:17
I
1:07:17
think
1:07:17
it's
1:07:18
true
1:07:18
and
1:07:18
we
1:07:19
get
1:07:19
to
1:07:19
hear
1:07:19
more
1:07:23
listeners
1:07:23
want
1:07:23
to
1:07:24
know
1:07:24
more
1:07:25
because
1:07:25
also
1:07:26
it
1:07:27
reflects
1:07:27
on
1:07:27
them.
1:07:28
Yeah.
1:07:28
On
1:07:29
the
1:07:29
conference
1:07:29
that
1:07:29
we
1:07:29
just
1:07:30
went
1:07:30
to,
1:07:30
I
1:07:30
was
1:07:30
approached
1:07:30
by
1:07:30
a
1:07:31
lot
1:07:31
of
1:07:31
people
1:07:31
said
1:07:31
how
1:07:31
much
1:07:32
these
1:07:32
conversations
1:07:33
meant
1:07:33
to
1:07:33
them.
1:07:33
So
1:07:34
that
1:07:34
felt
1:07:34
good.
1:07:35
It
1:07:35
certainly
1:07:35
means
1:07:36
a
1:07:36
lot
1:07:36
to
1:07:36
me.
1:07:36
And
1:07:37
I
1:07:37
appreciate
1:07:38
that
1:07:38
you've
1:07:38
been
1:07:39
vehicles
1:07:39
to
1:07:39
make
1:07:40
this
1:07:40
happen.
1:07:41
Well,
1:07:41
it's
1:07:41
been
1:07:42
a
1:07:42
privilege
1:07:42
and
1:07:42
a
1:07:42
delight
1:07:43
and
1:07:44
yeah.
1:07:44
And
1:07:44
this
1:07:44
can't
1:07:45
commend
1:07:45
this
1:07:45
book
1:07:46
enough.
1:07:46
The
1:07:46
inner
1:07:47
journey
1:07:47
Home
1:07:48
soul's
1:07:48
realization
1:07:49
of
1:07:49
the
1:07:50
unity
1:07:50
of
1:07:50
reality.
1:07:51
It's
1:07:51
just
1:07:52
a
1:07:52
spiritual
1:07:52
masterpiece
1:07:53
and
1:07:53
a
1:07:53
jewel.
1:07:54
So
1:07:54
amid
1:07:55
again
1:07:55
this
1:07:56
isn't
1:07:56
the
1:07:56
end,
1:07:56
but
1:07:57
it's
1:07:57
a
1:07:58
wonderful
1:07:58
turning
1:07:59
point
1:07:59
and
1:07:59
deep
1:08:00
gratitude.
1:08:00
This
1:08:01
book
1:08:01
has
1:08:01
many
1:08:01
appendices
1:08:02
and
1:08:02
we're
1:08:03
going
1:08:03
to
1:08:03
just
1:08:04
you
1:08:04
work
1:08:04
with
1:08:04
one
1:08:05
of
1:08:05
them.
1:08:05
Yeah.
1:08:06
They're
1:08:06
great
1:08:06
appendices
1:08:07
by
1:08:07
the
1:08:07
way.
1:08:07
I
1:08:07
love
1:08:08
gives
1:08:08
us
1:08:08
a
1:08:09
transition
1:08:09
to
1:08:09
other
1:08:10
books
1:08:10
you
1:08:10
write.
1:08:11
Yeah.
1:08:12
Thank
1:08:12
you
1:08:12
so
1:08:12
much.
1:08:13
Amid
1:08:13
just
1:08:13
deep,
1:08:14
deep
1:08:14
gratitude
1:08:15
and
1:08:15
to.
1:08:15
Be
1:08:16
continued
1:08:16
good
1:08:16
talking
1:08:17
with
1:08:17
you
1:08:17
gentlemen.
1:08:18
Okay.
1:08:18
See
1:08:19
you
1:08:19
next
1:08:19
month.
1:08:19
Yeah.
1:08:21
Thank
1:08:22
you
1:08:22
very
1:08:22
much
1:08:22
for
1:08:23
being
1:08:23
a
1:08:23
part
1:08:23
of
1:08:23
this
1:08:24
conversation.
1:08:24
We
1:08:25
hope
1:08:25
that
1:08:25
you
1:08:25
were
1:08:26
moved
1:08:26
as
1:08:26
we
1:08:26
are
1:08:27
moved
1:08:27
being
1:08:27
part
1:08:27
of
1:08:28
it
1:08:28
ourselves.
1:08:29
We'd
1:08:29
also
1:08:29
like
1:08:29
to
1:08:30
to
1:08:30
say
1:08:30
that
1:08:30
this
1:08:30
is
1:08:31
being
1:08:31
funded
1:08:31
by
1:08:32
Roger
1:08:32
and
1:08:32
myself.
1:08:33
It
1:08:33
comes
1:08:33
out
1:08:33
of
1:08:33
our
1:08:33
pockets.
1:08:34
So
1:08:34
if
1:08:34
you
1:08:34
would
1:08:34
like
1:08:34
to
1:08:35
help
1:08:35
us
1:08:35
to
1:08:36
mainly
1:08:36
to
1:08:37
get
1:08:37
this
1:08:37
podcast
1:08:37
out
1:08:38
to
1:08:38
more
1:08:38
people
1:08:38
because
1:08:39
the
1:08:39
bigger
1:08:39
audience
1:08:39
have
1:08:40
which
1:08:40
is
1:08:40
steadily
1:08:40
growing.
1:08:41
But
1:08:41
the
1:08:41
more
1:08:41
people
1:08:42
we
1:08:42
can
1:08:42
reach
1:08:42
and
1:08:42
the
1:08:42
more
1:08:43
marketing
1:08:43
we
1:08:43
can
1:08:43
do,
1:08:44
the
1:08:44
more
1:08:44
positive
1:08:45
effect
1:08:45
we
1:08:45
can
1:08:45
have
1:08:46
on
1:08:46
the
1:08:46
world.
1:08:46
So
1:08:47
we've
1:08:47
done
1:08:47
a
1:08:47
couple
1:08:47
of
1:08:47
ways
1:08:48
but
1:08:48
we'd
1:08:48
like
1:08:48
you
1:08:48
to
1:08:49
buy
1:08:49
us
1:08:49
a
1:08:49
cup
1:08:49
of
1:08:50
coffee,
1:08:50
Very
1:08:50
simple.
1:08:51
And
1:08:51
I
1:08:51
do
1:08:51
that
1:08:51
with
1:08:51
podcasts
1:08:52
that
1:08:53
I
1:08:53
support,
1:08:54
and
1:08:54
I
1:08:54
find
1:08:54
it's
1:08:55
very
1:08:55
satisfactory.
1:08:55
That's
1:08:55
fine.
1:08:56
So
1:08:56
thank
1:08:56
you
1:08:56
for
1:08:56
your
1:08:57
help.
1:08:57
Thank
1:08:57
you
1:08:57
for
1:08:57
your
1:08:58
presence,
1:08:58
and
1:08:58
thank
1:08:58
you
1:08:59
for
1:08:59
all
1:08:59
you
1:08:59
are
1:09:00
and
1:09:00
all
1:09:00
you
1:09:00
do.
1:09:00
We
1:09:01
love
1:09:01
you.