Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Digital Marketing With Brandon Leibowitz | The Christian Reeve Podcast #169

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Digital Marketing With Brandon Leibowitz | The Christian Reeve Podcast #169 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian we
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podcast. Today's guest is a digital
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marketing specialist and business owner all the way from
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Los Angeles, California. His name is Brandon Leibowitz.
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Welcome to the show. How you doing, I'm doing.
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Well, thanks for having me on today.
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It's a pleasure to have you on the show.
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I don't know if everyone necessarily knows this in my
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audience, maybe some people do. I have extensive background in
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marketing still to this day, so I've studied it.
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I've worked in that, still working it, so I always get
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excited. And being able to have a guest
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on the show who I can kind of Converse with our marketing.
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So for some people listening to this show, it might be really
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interesting for some people, maybe it won't be as
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interesting. I don't know, but I'm gonna have
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a good time. So anyway, thank you very much
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for appearing on the show. Let's let's just jump straight
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into the beginning of your journey in marketing.
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So you originally got into digital marketing back in 2007.
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So talk us through your journey from then to the present day.
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Just kind of give us like us, but it's like an overview of how
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digital marketing has changed since then.
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Man, I just kind of fell into digital marketing seen when I
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graduate from college to cut my degree in business marketing and
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wasn't planning on doing digital marketing.
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But the first job I got out of school, they want me to help out
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with search engine optimization, which I really do much about
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that back in 2007. So, the typically a classes
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workshops and seminars that helped me learn.
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Alongside them about digital marketing about running SEO,
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paid ads. Social media, do an email
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marketing and just realized And in 2007, that everyone's
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probably have a website in the future and there's a lot of ways
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to get traffic. They all work, like I just
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mentioned, but SEO is just a way to get free traffic.
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So really focus more on the SEO side of things, but just trying
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to tap it out, driving working full-time, a different
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advertising agencies over the years.
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While I was working on the side, trying to build up my business,
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and over the years, just built it up to where I was at.
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I quit my job and focus solely on my digital marketing agency
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and we're just helping people get more traffic to the websites
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nowadays. And what would you say are the
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most important aspects of digital marketing?
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Just knowing who your audience is and where they are, that's
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number one is traffic out. Where are they going to be?
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Are they going to be searching on Google then?
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Let's focus on SEO or some paid ads if they're going to be on
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social media, then you'd be on social, but she's trying to take
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a step back and put yourself in the users point of view, if
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you're looking for your product or service.
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Where would you go? That's number one because a lot
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of people try to be everywhere and you want to be as many
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places as possible, but Lobby where your audience is that you
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don't need to be everywhere. Well, Scott actually kept your
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interest in marketing because for me it's always been the more
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creative side. And one thing I always found
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interesting about marketing as it's got a lot of different than
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like subdivisions if you like. So you've got people to purely
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focus on analytics, people that purely focused on Advertising
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creative search engine optimization.
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I mean used to be that that was like a kind of novelty thing and
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now it's it's own kind of thing in of itself.
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So what's kind of Have your interest with with marketing in
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general or Marshall focus and just like that constantly
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changing. So it's not just the same thing
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every single day. It's always something different,
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new sites, and merge, or Google updates are our them or, like
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with social media. There's do platforms that are
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taking off or platforms that are dying off.
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So, it's just trying to figure out what's going on in the world
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of digital marketing and just trying to stay up to date with
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all the different changes. So I really enjoy that part just
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It's not the same thing over and over again every single day and
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it's always so interested me is the fact that every company I've
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ever worked with and this is either on a, you know, like a
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full-time basis, or freelance, or whatever the case may be
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every single company does their marketing differently.
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As find a fascinating because like you'll find people use
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similar tools, you know things like RFC.
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Things like search engine tools for just tracking keywords or
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websites and Obviously there's a bunch of different tools you can
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use to check the back end of websites and such but it's it is
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kind of all up to you as far as like how you approach it and
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there it to say there's a right and wrong way of doing it is
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it's kind of like a half-truth in a sense isn't it?
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Because while it might work for one industry, it might not work
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for completely different industry and then no two
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businesses are ever the same anyway.
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So even if it works for one company, it's not necessarily
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going to work for the other. So with your business like how
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because you're actually helping our let's talk a bit about your
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business or are you actually helping other companies?
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Or are you actually just offering your services as a
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general marketing agency that took a little bit about what
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your business? Does it go?
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And then make the changes up The Miser website, clean up the
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coding, do all that technical stuff to get Google to better,
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understand what that website is about.
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So they could get those that free rankings at free traffic
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from Google. So Going in optimizing, all the
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technical areas building backlinks to all things.
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Google wants website to have to be able to get that SEO, organic
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free rankings, so. But I also try to help out with
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paid ads and other stuff like that because once you get people
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to your website, half the people probably leave, unfortunately
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that balance, right? So just try to keep yourself top
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of mind, running some remarketing ads, or doing
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whatever. Needs to be done, just to have
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those multiple touch points because I feel like it takes
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about five touch points. Points to really build up.
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Trust from people because getting Google to trust your
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website put stuff together in the rank of you.
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But once you get those rankings how do you get people to trust
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you? So kind of focus on that
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conversion rate optimization aspect of things is and getting
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traffic is just half the battle. Oh yeah, absolutely.
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I remember one company I work for.
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I was purely just responsible for the backend stuff so I'd be
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looking at websites with using tools like you did very
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rudimentary tools like Alex or traffic ranking.
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Listen was other as there was one tool that you use for
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domains where you could check like how powerful the domain is
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based on like how many links coming into the website and
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coming out of etcetera. And I remember sometimes I get
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really excited about all. Oh this one's got a like a high
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domain or something like that and then you go and you
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investigate a little bit further and this is just on a side
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there's something I really like about marketing from this
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perspective is it's kind of like the research element to it.
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You know you look at these websites you Think, okay, maybe
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this is a website that we could link to maybe this is a website
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that we can use to. For example, write an article
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posted on their website and get a link either in that article
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link back to that site. Something like that because
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those who don't know linking or could it back linking into
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websites is it is a real way of like pushing the strength of
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your website up or just trying to get people to come back
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through to your website and You can kind of piggyback off better
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websites essentially. It's this is kind of what I'm
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alluding to here is like, when you're looking at, let's say,
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you're looking for opportunities to just secure backlinks.
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You might just be looking like, okay, is this like a website?
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I want to post on, or is it always this worth linking back
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to? And sometimes they'll have the
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higher domain, maybe it'll be like 50, 60, something like
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that. And that might not seem that
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higher, but the ones that are like 90 or 95 85, I I mean,
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Google has like the highest obviously and then there will be
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like a bunch anywhere from between 75 to 85 that are like
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premium tier. But they're, you know, it's
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astronomical prices to try and get on those.
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So then you're kind of left with everything between the save 40,
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45 all the way up to 70. That's kind of like the ones
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you'll be aiming for potentially unless you're willing to spend
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more money. So with those, it can seem
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really convincing I go. Okay, this looks promising and
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then you investigate further and you find that the what they've
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actually done is they've bought a lot of links.
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From like, lots and lots of different places.
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But actually, those links aren't very good to like lower.
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Like, maybe ones we have like 20, 20, I could 20 domain rating
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or something like that. I really, really low.
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And that the websites haven't really been optimized for Google
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or anything like that. They literally just exist to
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generate these links as wonder what you make of that whole
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process as far as like, finding websites that are Worth working
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with and securing his back then. Because as you mentioned
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earlier, Google is always doing things to what make it harder,
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you know what I mean, like, it's the whole perspective with, at
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least with SEO is to please Google, write articles, that
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will be good for Google and won't get you punished.
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But yeah, I mean, they're always tweaking them.
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Yeah, it's always changing but those are all third-party tools
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that you're mentioning. So Google has Google page rank,
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which ranks scale or websites from zero to 10, 10 being the
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highest 0 is the lowest the worst score but Google, well,
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they used to show page rank. They don't show page rank
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anymore. So all these third-party tools
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start coming up with their own want to be authoritativeness of
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like domain Authority page Authority from like moths made
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their own. Ben, there's Alexa and there's
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Majestic citation flow, trust flow, a traps domain Authority
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Pages. All these third-party tools are
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putting out numbers but they're all just third-party tools.
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They're not Google page rank which is what matters these
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third-party tools could be manipulated.
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Like you said earlier, there's ways to game the system and you
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don't want to just look at one of the rankings you want.
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Look at all the rankings. So I want to look at Mazda main
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Authority page Authority, Majestic trust flow, citation
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flow a trap. It's domain Authority and all
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these ones because if I see all of our good that's a good sign.
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But if I just see one is really good and the rest are really
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low. That means they were probably
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manipulating it so it's not really I don't look at those
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numbers specifically when I'm when you building backlinks
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because Google told algorithm started based off backlinks and
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backlinks of just clickable links from other websites, 2.2
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years. So if you're reading an article
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on like Forbes and it says, Brandon Lee boys, me click on it
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and it goes to my website, I'd be getting a backlink from
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Forbes. The more websites that link to
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me the hiring manager rank. That's how it used to be.
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But then Google found that people are gaming, the system
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and just building links to build links.
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So in the past, like if you had 100 backlinks and I had 200 back
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wings, I would rank higher than you.
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But now it's not the number of backlinks, it's a number of
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quality backlinks and was a quality back need to Google
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called a back link. Just means website, thats
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related to you. So if you're like you said that
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you do digital marketing if you get a backlink from Let's say,
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like boating company. That might look a little strange
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to Google like by is a boat company giving you a back, like
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maybe they're your client so you help them out but the majority
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of your backlinks came like boating websites.
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Google's gonna think that you're related to voting.
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So what you need is what sites are related to business
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marketing. Advertising entrepreneurship.
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Doesn't have to be exactly what you're doing.
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It's always somewhat related. That's what Google wants to see
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the more related the better, but like I'm an SEO company.
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Never gonna get another SEO company and Link out to me
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because Direct competitors. But I can find other companies
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that do maybe like paid ads or do radio or TV.
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Advertisements doesn't have to be digital marketing.
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Just the ending summer related again, those sites only got to
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me, that's going to build up more trust from Google and then
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get me the rank higher. And then once Google sees that
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you have all these backlinks, then Google looks at the
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keywords on your website to figure out what rank you for but
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doesn't work the other way around.
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If you build a website include keywords all over it, you make
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it look really quickly. You do all the things that
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Google looks for, but you don't have Any backlinks Google's not
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really going to make you. They're not going to trust you.
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So you have to build backlinks back.
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Lanes are what I spend, 80% of my day working on building
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backlinks, trying to figure out how to build a good quality
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backlinks to find these low quality ones and avoid them
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because we build the wrong type of backlinks instead of ranking
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higher. You actually drop down and
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rankings which is the last thing we want to happen.
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So what the backlinks gotta be very careful, it's all about
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quality versus quantity. Everything else with SEO is a
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little bit more straightforward but the Are we got to be very
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very careful. Yeah, it's I totally agree with
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you. I've done a lot to actually make
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sure that my website is as high as it possibly can be through
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general, just organic traffic and stuff like that but the
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relevancy factor is so important than I've seen what you just
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described actually happen in real time.
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Where yeah and that's kind of what I was talking about before
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like you bought you. Yeah, you can buy a bunch of
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links and that's great and it might work for like a week or
13:14
two, but then Google knows his and then they just tank your
13:17
website and then your unlike the seventh page of Google and who's
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looking there. But from people like me that do
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it for research purposes but generally speaking no one's
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going I mean it's so it's surprising if you go past the
13:29
first page second page maybe pass that I mean not many people
13:34
and necessarily looking at finest they're really looking
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for something. But anyway kind of skew number.
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They give you need like a battery or like the specific SKU
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number Like that. Then people go to page two maybe
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page three but I doubt that most people never go past page 1.
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So, if you're not on page one, you really missing a page to get
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some traffic, but it's really more targeted where they're
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like, I need this really unique thing that I haven't been able
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to find anywhere else, but other than that, if they don't find
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what they're looking for. Not first page of Google, the
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probably do a new search on Google and just we keep
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searching until I find something.
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So, something like a strange question, but just ride with me
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for a And D think that Google is fair with how restrictive make
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make things year-on-year with regards to marketing.
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Because I remember when I first started hearing about things
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like, you know, them coming down this and their mind has been
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many many years ago. But in the 2000s when people
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were doing keyboard stuff, keyword stuffing sorry and the
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practices like that. Like I understood that, that
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obviously, you do have to kind of clamp down on it because I
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mean it's it's not it's Producing good quality content
14:45
that people can use. It's just like, oh, let's just
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throw all our stuff here and then we can get what we want and
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it in a way that's kind of deceiving people, you know.
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Potentially you can look at that like that.
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But then sometimes I look at some of the restrictions that
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Google puts in place than I'm like, is it really hang anyone?
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You know, like is this a problem?
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Like, for example, if you do want to pay for backlinks and
15:08
but the quality of the content still good, then why does it
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matter where it makes? You know, sometimes I look at
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things like that, like, Like you know I mean don't get me wrong
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if it's lit it the link still needs a link to things that are
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relevant to that specific article.
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That's true but like you know, when they punish you for like
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linking to like a lower website or something like that.
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I just look at that. Like that seems a little bit
15:29
unfair. And for instance, one of the
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companies that I started working with recently, one of the first
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things that the guy said was, yeah, so we've had to make this
15:38
change because Google has recently changed this thing
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which means we have to just totally change or whole Us and
15:45
like I've heard so many people say that throughout the years
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and you know, it's like you said at the beginning, like it's
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always changing marketing's always changing for better or
15:54
worse and it's interesting. But at the same time his Market
15:58
is it just makes your life a lot more difficult.
16:00
A lot of the time that you have to adjust and find that's part
16:04
of life but sometimes you just look at things like is it really
16:07
necessary for them to change this or there's a lot more?
16:10
What your thoughts on that? There is trying to clean up
16:13
spam, that's meaning. Who is trying to clean up spam?
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That's all they're really looking to do and make more
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money off paid ads. I mean, that's really all they
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care about but also just try not to spam because they don't want
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people gaming the system and manipulating and finding ways to
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rank when they don't want you to just use tools like their tools
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back in 2008 where you just click a link or click a button,
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hit start and you'll build millions of backlinks and you'll
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rank instantly for all your keywords Google's will pull on
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you don't You just spamming people and forums and comment
16:45
sections and all these other places which he sort of really
16:48
well, but Google changed their algorithms.
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I don't know what quality not quantity.
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We don't want you to spamming people.
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So that's the main thing is. They're just trying to clean up
16:56
all that spam. But also they just care really
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about the paid ads. That's all they care about.
17:01
Is the bottom line? Good old days.
17:05
No, I mean that's that's fair enough.
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My I agree with that statement a can be literally I'd say five
17:11
years to actually Push my website to the point where it's
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like firmly in place and it really moves past the first or
17:18
second results page. But it's because of, you know,
17:20
having those legitimate links to websites that that matter.
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And you know, irrelevant and not just randomly putting it
17:28
anywhere. I did try.
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I tried to kind of put it, I still put it in places that
17:33
would make sense, but it just wasn't generating anything for
17:36
me, you know, like I mean, they call it organic links but the
17:40
best links are to have those. Organic ones that are just
17:44
placed somewhere where they should be on a high ranking
17:46
website and you benefit from that as we explained before.
17:52
What would it since we'd sort of like talking will cook it
17:54
around, SEO, what would you say are the most important aspects
17:58
of search engine optimization backlinks?
18:02
A pack, of course, and once the other backlinks and Google's
18:08
like, all right, what keywords, you want to rank you for.
18:10
So then, you got optimized Site putting keywords in all the
18:13
different places on your website, the different technical
18:15
areas like title tag, meta description, schema and ALT tags
18:22
for images and headers and all this technical stuff.
18:25
But the easiest thing that I want to just do is just go on
18:28
their website and just add more content to every single page.
18:31
So instead of having to do all the technical stuff I mentioned,
18:33
you just go and add more text every single page.
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The more text you, add the easier, it is for the search
18:39
engines to read and understand what that page is about.
18:42
They can't really read images or videos yet, we're getting better
18:45
but they really rely heavily on text.
18:47
So because add more text to every single page on your
18:49
website that's going to really help out a lot.
18:53
That's a big, big part of SEO, that's easy to do.
18:56
Don't have to know any coding or be tech savvy but the backlinks
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are really number one backlinks and good quality content will
19:03
get you the rankings. Then everything else is
19:05
important but they're just so Technical and minor than pack
19:09
that they have versus the backlinks in the content that
19:11
those are. Things out of focus on because
19:13
that's feels like a puzzle. There's a lot of pieces.
19:15
Some pieces are a lot bigger and the backlinks are a huge, huge
19:18
piece. And so is that content you still
19:22
think the available. So you said that good quality
19:25
content is always going to come first but when it comes to like
19:28
Evergreen content and content that's continually updated.
19:31
So like let's say you have a guide that you know where you
19:34
don't really change the content much except that you tweak it a
19:39
little bit year-on-year so that it's relevant for that year.
19:41
Do you think That is still worth it and still something that's
19:46
valuable or do we need to sort of move Master now, that is
19:50
definitely good contact. You want to update your blog and
19:53
have good quality content on your blog and you might have a
19:56
blog post from 10 years old. That's still relevant.
19:58
So you update it and make it relevant to 2022 versus 2012 or
20:02
whatever year it was written in. But just got to make sure that
20:05
you update it every once in a while as long as it's Evergreen.
20:08
But more importantly is adding content to like the services
20:11
that you offer. Or the products that you're
20:13
selling, if you're an e-commerce website, the category Pages,
20:16
need more content, the homepage needs more content, the services
20:20
that you offer a service based visits.
20:22
Each one of those Services should have a lot of text, a
20:26
more content, the better but you know I just go crazy but for
20:29
your word is like the average but the more you do the better
20:32
as long as it's good quality content and it makes sense, you
20:34
don't need to write two thousand words.
20:36
If you're just, someone's solving a map question.
20:38
Like, what's two? Plus two, maybe just need a
20:39
couple hundred words, but it's something really.
20:42
Fanny's you get into a like maybe like how to change your
20:46
car engine out that could be thousands of words where if it's
20:49
something more basic like how to tie your shoe maybe you'll need
20:52
a couple hundred words so just try to think of what's what's
20:55
appropriate. And now the way to find that is
20:57
just searching on Google searching, Google for your
20:59
keyboards, seized on that first page of Google, open up all the
21:02
websites on that first page of Google, skip over the ads, but
21:05
open up all the websites, the organic, the free listings and
21:07
see how much text each page has average it out.
21:10
And that's how much text you should have on your your page if
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you want to make that keyword. But you want to do a little bit
21:14
more than everyone. So everyone is writing about 40
21:17
words to write 500 Words. If everyone's writing four
21:19
thousand words, maybe write four thousand and one hundred words,
21:25
I know I certainly agree. I mean that's that's what
21:28
everyone's doing, isn't it? Trying to be better than the
21:30
competitors and often that means kind of replicate in the content
21:34
and then just adding something new to it or just kind of
21:37
presenting it in the more Well something that's going to be
21:41
more valuable to whoever is reading.
21:43
But one thing that I have come across a resident of U.
21:47
Comma, V must have come across this.
21:49
I find this really interesting is like, you'll find an article.
21:53
And it keeps repeating itself in order to I guess to reach a
21:56
certain word count or you know, maybe.
21:59
So let's say that article only really needs to be five 600
22:03
words, but is they managed to get it to a thousand words and
22:07
they've done so by repeating themselves pretty much at the
22:09
end of every section doing like, referring back to what they've
22:13
already said. Or sometimes just outright
22:15
copying and pasting and just yeah, basically, just trying to
22:18
fill a workout. But what do you make of that?
22:21
Do you think Love with that along with other potential.
22:29
Problematic things that people do with, in marketing.
22:32
My, what would you say? What do you think of that?
22:34
And what would you also consider to be kind of the worst things
22:38
that people could do in day-to-day marketing?
22:41
And they are right for people don't just write for the search
22:43
engines. Don't just write to put keywords
22:45
and keep in places like just right for people and eventually
22:48
the words the keywords will be in there but don't just fill use
22:51
filler content. Either just write good quality
22:53
content. We're not really trying to
22:54
optimize for search engines. I mean, I still want to do it
22:57
but God five more. People search engines could read
23:00
through all that nowadays, a pretty smart so they could see
23:03
through you just sticking keywords in there.
23:05
Just throw keywords in there, just really right more for
23:08
people and the keywords will naturally emerge and if not,
23:11
then you're not writing the right content because if you're
23:14
writing about a keyword, you should be writing about that.
23:16
Keyword and should be popping up in that text.
23:18
Let's synonyms plurals variations restructuring, the
23:22
waves ridden or reordering. The words it's not always the
23:25
same phrase but just trying to keep it looking as natural
23:28
organic as possible. Well, it's that's the biggest
23:30
thing is just keep it natural. One thing I've noticed is
23:33
different from client to client, when it comes to keywords, is
23:38
what they actually deem. As more important to some I've
23:40
seen will try and target for one specific keyword or just a few
23:45
related, maybe, like, 10, or 15 keywords the or kind of related
23:49
to each other. Both short and long tail
23:51
keywords. But then I see some that, you
23:54
know, they have like 70 to 100 keywords that the try and get in
23:57
an article. What?
23:59
Generally is your opinion on on keywords.
24:01
And what do you think is more effective?
24:03
Having less, or more? And why is that your business is
24:07
if you're selling, if you're an e-commerce website and you have
24:11
50,000 products, you're going to need a lot of keywords.
24:14
Whereas if you're an e-commerce website with one product, maybe
24:17
you only have 20 keywords, so shy, figure out what keywords
24:21
you want to rank for that irrelevant and a buyer intent,
24:24
you know, I'm just rank for keywords to rank for them, but
24:26
you want keywords related to your business?
24:27
So some businesses has some websites will have a lot of
24:30
keywords. Some will have a few keywords
24:33
because maybe they're in a really specific industry that
24:35
not many people are searching for or do any searching a
24:37
specific way. So just trying to figure out how
24:40
people are searching and how they get you in front of the
24:42
right person, at the right time of right moment, when they are
24:44
actually searching on Google but keywords, it just depends
24:47
nowadays. I'll go after the many different
24:50
variations. Singulars plural Cinemas
24:53
industry jargon misspellings. Well not really misspellings,
24:57
better reordering restructuring the It's because the way people
25:00
search is always different. I feel like half.
25:02
I think Google said, half the searches are new searches but
25:05
they've never seen. So not every search is going to
25:08
be a key word that you think of, because what voice search, the
25:11
mobile people just speak into their phones, whole different
25:14
type of search. So it's not just optimizing for
25:16
keywords per se, but is optimizing for the keyword and
25:20
all variations of it. John, never even fooled.
25:23
I mean, of course Miss spellings and I'll get into that in a
25:26
second, of course encountered that but I've never thought
25:28
about The fact that yeah, people would do obviously search for
25:31
their voice and they'll say, the wrong thing or whatever and then
25:34
that has an impact on things. It's interesting I actually came
25:38
across this when I was writing an article the other day in the
25:42
keywords, there was a misspelling but it was a
25:45
high-ranking keyword but I just couldn't put it in the article
25:48
justifiably because it's a misspelling.
25:50
So we just missed out on that and then it was like an editor's
25:53
note at the top that said like, oh, please be able to the
25:55
client, please be advised that. You know, this is spelt wrong.
25:59
But this is just a Google suggestion for what you should
26:01
search because that you can't do anything about it.
26:04
And let me expose you could if you want.
26:06
But then it's just bad content. Then it is because this is a
26:10
quite clearly you're trying to rank for that keyword, but at
26:13
the same time people, you know what, often misspelled thing, or
26:17
sometimes, it's not even like a genuine mistake, like they
26:20
missed a letter or something, sometimes it's actually like
26:22
people think that word is spelled a certain way when it's
26:25
not and then they just that's what they searched and then,
26:29
That's it. There's not really much you can
26:31
do about them as I suppose. Maybe you could stick it in the
26:34
meta description or something like that but it's a bit cheeky.
26:39
So, tricky one. Yeah.
26:40
Well, even do any of that stuff, Google Now knows once on
26:44
misspelled something, but they were looking for.
26:45
So putting misspellings in is right.
26:48
Yeah, 15 years old, which it used to work the well, because
26:52
Google. Is it able to pick up in the
26:54
misspellings? I mean, I see web sites that
26:55
rank for keywords that don't even have the keywords anywhere
26:58
on that website. Just Of the semantic.
26:59
Web, the hummingbird update that they did in 2013 where they
27:02
understand the intent behind searches.
27:04
They don't need keywords per se anymore.
27:06
So keep your just important but they're not gonna be that
27:09
important future. I mean they still are but I
27:11
mean, who knows what's gonna happen but I see websites.
27:13
I don't even have a key words on it.
27:15
That rank for keywords. I was searching for just because
27:17
Google knows and 10 search history and singular or synonyms
27:22
of those words that I'm related passion, trusted, you know, the
27:27
inner workings of the mechanics behind Search intent, like how
27:30
that actually works and how websites can be sort of pushed
27:34
into that lane, even though they're not necessarily directly
27:38
related to it. Not too sure, but in keywords
27:42
probably would be the best way, Silas signals building,
27:45
backlinks with the anchor tags with those keywords in it, but
27:48
those search intent based keywords.
27:49
But, yeah, I think that would be the best way to do it for an
27:54
awesome isos. Intriguing.
27:55
Actually, when you think, because I always look at the
27:57
future of marketing and never to be is going to be just like,
28:01
while me and you won't have a job.
28:03
That's for sure. Because it would just be like,
28:05
everything will be done Coke computers.
28:07
I imagine when you just need someone kind of casually.
28:11
Now, I suppose but I mean, you already see it.
28:13
Like it's it kind of began with things like, you know, Amazon
28:18
shopping and things being recommended to people, but
28:20
you're even with Google like I'll make mistakes or it all
28:24
figure out what I'm searching for after like a couple of
28:28
searches, you know what I mean? Like you you search for one
28:30
thing, it shows you the wrong results, you change the wording
28:33
a little bit, it still doesn't get it.
28:35
And then by the third attempt, it's pretty much figured it out.
28:40
And it's not, but it's not by coincidence.
28:41
It knows what you're trying to go for, it's just trying to get
28:44
the right words in there, that will link back to what you
28:47
actually looking for. But that machine learning that
28:51
AI is just learning by itself and learning every single day.
28:54
And no one even knows how that one works anymore, it's just
28:57
growing by itself. Is it man?
29:01
Well, speaking of the future, and as of right now, what would
29:04
you say? Are the key digital marketing
29:06
trends that you've discovered in 2022 mobile.
29:11
Everything is keeps shifting towards mobile and Gabby on top
29:16
of that. Got to get ready for mobile also
29:18
video. Everything is really shift
29:19
towards video, you'll get all social social media is really
29:23
all the Platforms in the corporate video.
29:24
Like, Pinterest allows you to put videos up.
29:27
Everything was really, really videos.
29:28
So, Having a good presence online with video content is
29:32
going to be huge like YouTube second biggest search engine,
29:36
gotta have a presence on there like doing the podcast, taking
29:39
the audio, posting it on audio platforms, but taking the video,
29:43
and throw it up on my YouTube or Facebook videos or of an IG TV.
29:46
Long-form video. Third up on all the different
29:49
platforms, LinkedIn video, all those places because people want
29:53
to see people then want to read articles, read blog post, any
29:57
more attention spans are so short nowadays, Visual content
30:00
works really well, but video you're speaking to them so they
30:04
don't have to do anything. They could just sit there and
30:06
listen and base of the easiest, I think Supposedly speaking of
30:11
which couple years ago, I was working with a company, I very
30:14
briefly touched on this. So I know very little about
30:16
this. But I know that for websites
30:18
like YouTube there are there are certain tools that are party
30:21
tools available things like vid IQ which basically show you will
30:26
give you suggestions as to you know what you should do as far
30:30
as putting in keywords on the website and you know, hashtags
30:33
things like that. But since that, as you said, let
30:37
me know. YouTube is becoming like a Check
30:39
engine in of itself a video content.
30:41
So what would you say would be like a kind of a good strategy
30:46
for approaching those that would you approach it?
30:48
The same way as general SEO or is a totally different strategy
30:52
for approaching that similar? Not the same.
30:55
But some work like with you do, I mean, you are the keywords and
31:00
the title of the video, you want to put keywords in the
31:04
description, the tags. You want to transcribe the video
31:06
because Google can't really read them images or videos yet, so So
31:09
you get transcribe the video and put that in the description.
31:13
Doesn't matter what platform you're on.
31:14
Doesn't matter if it's YouTube or Vimeo, but all these
31:17
platforms, they need you to like really will try to transcribe it
31:20
but they're not there yet. So the more you give them the
31:22
easier it is for them to understand what that video is
31:24
about. It's a long form like this maybe
31:27
time-stamping different sections, that might be tough to
31:30
transcribe. It, the file name, making sure
31:32
you upload the video with the file name that has keywords in
31:36
it before you upload to Youtube or same with like images.
31:39
Website. Make sure the file names have
31:41
descriptive words that describe what that image is about.
31:44
But those are kind of, some of the things, there's a lot of
31:46
other variables like how long people watch your video?
31:48
If they, it's a five minute video of people watch it for 5
31:51
seconds. That experience not a good sign.
31:53
But if people watch it for 4 minutes and 45 minute video that
31:56
looks good to Google or YouTube and Google owns YouTube.
31:59
So Google has their algorithm that similar to you.
32:02
Do the same. It's very different, but there's
32:05
a lot of overlap with some things.
32:07
I always look at analytics, especially from my podcast, in a
32:11
very unique light because my analytics on certain websites
32:15
are really good and others, not so good.
32:18
It's like YouTube. I always look at the average.
32:21
It gives you the average viewer duration for each video and I
32:26
mean inevitably, it's not gonna be very good because who's going
32:29
to sit and watch a YouTube video for like an hour or two hours.
32:33
Some people will but you know, generally speaking for a podcast
32:37
that we go. That you put it on in the
32:38
background. Like, I've actually found more
32:40
people. Listen to this show on
32:42
platforms, like, Spotify, Apple podcasts Etc.
32:45
There are people still, you know, listening to it on YouTube
32:49
and that figure is increasing. But when I look at that average
32:52
viewer duration, it's generally like ranges between about 5 to
32:58
10 minutes or something. You consider the average is
33:00
about an hour, an hour and a half.
33:02
So, with regards to what you were saying before, that's
33:05
really bad, it means people listen for, you know, Five, ten
33:08
minutes that I know, in the end they leave either that or as I
33:13
found out more recently, people return to it, they think.
33:16
Um, this is interesting, don't have the time right now.
33:19
I'll come back to this later on and I've actually had some
33:21
feedback and people doing that and I don't know, it's
33:25
fascinating for me and I'm also learning that because podcasting
33:30
itself is fascinating, just from a marketing perspective like how
33:33
it works because certain websites.
33:38
You know, it might look like okay this is just how much reach
33:41
the show has and you know this this is kind of like your
33:44
ceiling or whatever. But like when I was looking at
33:47
the RSS feed, the thing that you can have like where you're
33:50
basically your podcast is exported to other platforms.
33:53
It's not posted on there, but it's kind of distributed to
33:56
those platforms. I was discovering like, oh, wow,
33:59
the show has like loads and loads of listens on this like
34:02
random platform for distribution that I had no idea about and
34:06
it's kind of cheeky. But But they'll just these
34:08
websites. Like, listen, notes is one of
34:11
them. Shout out to them.
34:12
They basically just like, pull the RSS feed without asking you
34:16
and just put it on their website.
34:17
So you just find that your podcast is randomly on these
34:20
websites. Always good free advertising but
34:23
it's just like they did, they didn't ask you and you will have
34:27
to email them in order to get stuff removed.
34:30
Like actually had to do this recently, with regards to an old
34:33
episode that I've since decided to remove because it doesn't
34:37
sort of fit with my Rounding anymore and other reasons as
34:39
well. I was actually having to, for me
34:43
like, email people and be like, yes, excuse me.
34:45
Please could you remove X and X episode and I was thinking, this
34:49
is crazy. Like I never agreed for this to
34:51
be here. This is, you know, I mean if it
34:53
was the host website that's fine, you just delete it and
34:56
it's gone, you don't worry about it.
34:58
But these as I said before, just ended up on these websites.
35:01
I'm just like, okay. Great.
35:07
But not much you could do. Unfortunately, I can't and
35:12
reposted re-shared. And well that's see that's
35:15
that's the problem was. Well yeah.
35:16
Like I'm glad I've been able to remove that episode now and you
35:21
know, it's not like they say the show right now, you know.
35:24
It has a small following shout out to the small following
35:27
listening. Thank you so much.
35:29
So it's not really a big issue, but if we were further down the
35:32
line and you know, we'd read achieve some level of success,
35:36
it would just be out there. And there's nothing you can do
35:38
about and that's that's problematic and it's it's
35:41
actually forced me to and this brings me on to branding now.
35:46
Rethink every single thing I post out there, which sounds
35:50
obvious, I'm sure there's many people listening thinking, well,
35:52
when you do that anyway, well, your branding obviously changes
35:56
over time. So what let's say, when I first
35:59
started this show, it was one thing.
36:02
And now it's kind of evolved into something else and if you
36:04
look at the last, What we are now 169.
36:09
I think this is so like the first 40 or 50 shows.
36:14
I'm still figuring it out. And then after that, I kind of
36:16
like, okay, this is what the show is.
36:17
It's about even sharing life stories, or it's about exploring
36:21
topics at length. So today we're exploring digital
36:23
marketing at length and it's, it's great.
36:26
But when I go back to like, those early episodes, doesn't
36:29
really fit in in with a branding of there.
36:31
And it's like that's fine because, you know, things change
36:34
and grow over time. But with that being said, you
36:37
know, when it comes to things like getting sponsors people,
36:40
they're going to work with you in general or even and just
36:42
people who want to agree to be on your show if they know that.
36:46
Okay, this person was on your show before and they spoke about
36:48
this. What I don't want to be
36:49
associated with that and then it's like, you can't win.
36:52
But at the same time you have to think about that.
36:55
And it's caused me to kind of review everything that I'm doing
36:58
not just on the podcast. But you know, many other
37:00
different platforms and so on. So what your kind of thoughts on
37:05
on branding in general and knows like how do you advise clients
37:08
on that? And branding is tricky and just
37:13
got, make sure you're consistent with your voice message, tone,
37:18
what you're putting out there and try to just keep it
37:20
consistent across the board Brandon's, not my area of
37:23
expertise, but it is important. I just focus more on trying to
37:27
get people that traffic so people can find them and make
37:29
sure that traffic converts into sales leads, whatever that
37:34
conversion goal is. But branding is a definitely a
37:37
tricky one where you guys just really think about.
37:39
The whole brand and just figure out what colors, what tone,
37:42
what, boys, you want to use logo, all that stuff and making
37:46
sure it's consistent across the board, all the different
37:48
platforms. Making sure that everything is
37:51
consistent. That's also kind of tricky the
37:53
logo and the tone, and the description about who you are
37:56
all that stuff. Okay, thanks for, thanks for
38:00
sharing. I appreciate that.
38:02
So, obviously, you're focusing more on on that as element of
38:05
things, but have you sort of explored social media marketing
38:09
at all? Could you share a little bit
38:11
about people? Get more followers on social
38:13
media. So, grow in their account, go
38:16
ahead just building up a presence by just getting more,
38:19
real followers, by being social and social media and gauging
38:23
with their target audience, to try to drive awareness through
38:26
social. But social, I got things like,
38:29
who is on social media like for myself.
38:30
I'm an SEO company. No one's going to go on
38:33
Instagram or Facebook or not. Many people are going to go on
38:36
Instagram. Looking for an SEO company,
38:38
closed agreement, go on Google, find me there then check for the
38:41
faith, we have a company. Check me out on social media,
38:44
which is really what social was created for, is putting a face
38:46
beyond the company letting people know.
38:47
Alright, here's my website. But here's my social where you
38:51
could check out reviews, you get engaged with me, ask me
38:53
questions, see status updates, its that Web 2.0 where people
38:57
can engage with You and ask you questions and not just be a
39:00
static website but social it's good.
39:03
If you like musician or doing sports news stuff, works really
39:07
well on social but it's just like I said, the very beginning,
39:09
you have to know who your audience is and where they are.
39:11
Are lie on social media then beyond social?
39:14
Are they on Google be on Google. If there are on Yelp, be on
39:17
Yelp, turn on TripAdvisor, be on TripAdvisor in.
39:20
But you have to know who your audience is and where they are
39:22
and how to get in front of them at that right moment.
39:24
But social does help out. You know, that's such a sort of
39:28
point. I remember there was a company
39:29
that I worked for maybe three, four years ago.
39:32
Now more might be even longer while time flies about four
39:35
years ago and they were in just professional trading.
39:41
And I remember getting really frustrated at the fact that we
39:44
were using certain platforms to try and reach people, and I was
39:47
saying continuously over and over again, like audience isn't
39:51
there? They don't use these platforms.
39:54
This is where you need to be. This is We need to interact with
39:57
it and eventually we got there and we started talking to them
40:00
and getting on those platforms. But I even to this day, if you
40:03
look up this website, they're still trying to use those old
40:07
systems of reaching people and it's like, it's fine.
40:10
It's free, you know, might as well use it and whatnot.
40:13
But like, I always think that you should spend the majority of
40:17
time and certainly your money investing in the area where, you
40:20
know, your audience is, you know, because everything I know
40:23
it sounds really obvious but like you'd be surprised how many
40:26
People and businesses just spend so much time and effort in areas
40:31
that don't make sense like. Okay, let's for instance discuss
40:33
like Tick-Tock as an example. Right, Tick-Tock is a great
40:36
resource for reaching, a lot of people really, really quickly,
40:39
right? And sometimes it can work for
40:42
companies. Like I've seen it, you know,
40:43
let's say you have a shot, right?
40:45
And you sell carpet samples, right?
40:48
I've actually seen this happen, let certain companies have done
40:50
this where they'll set up an account and they'll get a bit of
40:53
traction to get me in a bit of intrigue, because people think
40:55
it's funny. There's Element to it.
40:57
And they do you know effectively use the app as its intended they
41:02
jump on the trends right and and they're successful to a degree.
41:04
But what's the logic there? From a marketing perspective?
41:07
Okay, well, it will be to drive either traffic to the physical
41:15
store. If it's a physical location.
41:16
So, you know, if people see it in the local area, which it will
41:20
likely be seen by those people because the videos will be
41:22
pushed. The algorithm will push it to
41:24
people in the local area. So that's affected.
41:26
That's Really a useful thing to do.
41:28
And of course, if it's an online business, fantastic.
41:31
There's an opportunity to get you know, online sales but
41:34
sometimes they'll be companies that will try and go on there.
41:37
I've actually seen marketing companies on there before and
41:40
I'm like, I see what you're trying to do, but it's like
41:44
there's no end game with this. There's no goal with this.
41:48
Like, as you said earlier, people using those apps.
41:52
Sorry people that are searching on my Instagram or whatever.
41:54
They're not really looking for you know.
41:56
With SEO marketing, whatever that if they want that, they'll
41:59
look that up and they'll find an agency that works with them.
42:03
And I think that's always what you have to look at is with this
42:07
business and what we're doing. Can these tools that are getting
42:11
a lot of traction, actually, help me, or is it better to
42:14
focus my attention elsewhere and I just, yeah, I just wanted to
42:17
just add to that because I thought that was a really,
42:19
really solid point. And it's crazy because you know,
42:23
I remember when I was studying business Like the lowest like
42:28
the earliest level at business school, you know, they used to
42:30
bang into our heads, the four peas, place people, Etc.
42:36
You know, there's different variations on that, but they
42:39
always would talk about like location and you customer base
42:44
and everything being like the really, really, most important
42:46
aspects that you just have to keep in mind at all times.
42:49
And if you do, keep those in mind.
42:54
Generally speaking, you won't deviate a lot from that.
42:57
You'll make mistakes because that's how we learn, and that's
43:00
just part of business, but if you always focus on those on
43:03
those key aspects, those key things generally speaking,
43:07
you're not going to go wrong because you're still, you still
43:09
got the key things in mind and that will, of course, inform or
43:14
your strategics decisions in theory, at least.
43:19
But yeah. Anyway, let's let's move it
43:22
forward. You've already kind of given
43:27
some examples, but just in general.
43:29
What do you think the future of digital marketing looks like
43:32
moving forward? Let's let's look at like the
43:34
next five or ten years. Yeah, I think it's just going to
43:40
walk if their search engines, then SEO still going to be
43:43
around, but if we ran the metaverse, who knows what's
43:47
gonna happen with that stuff, but it's just trying to figure
43:49
out what's going to happen in future, unfortunately.
43:52
No, really knows. If Google's gonna still be
43:54
around, if dot dot go, you could take over or any of these other
43:58
search engines out of emerging. But just try to stay up to date
44:01
with all these different changes and Trends, and just trying to
44:04
just constantly stay up-to-date with it all.
44:06
That's the biggest thing because unfortunately become Every deck
44:09
is so much. Change going on that it's always
44:13
evolving and there is no constant which makes it
44:15
interesting but just keeps you on your toes or your like just
44:18
keep on reading, keep on learning watching videos, listen
44:22
to podcasts, whatever it is to reading books but whatever it is
44:26
to keep you up to date with everything.
44:27
Otherwise you're going to fall behind and pick a are going to
44:31
see that advantage in take a hold of it but just trying to
44:34
stay up to date with all the different changes such as
44:35
social. That's one that's constantly
44:37
evolving and changing. Changing.
44:40
Thanks for sharing, appreciate it.
44:42
Well, a couple of final questions for you completely
44:44
unrelated to marketing. So this is just questions that I
44:48
always ask my guests and it's always, I always get interesting
44:51
answers. What's the best advice you've
44:54
ever received? Probably gonna Mentor for
44:59
business dissolved. A lot.
45:01
Just get someone that knows and then there and your shoes.
45:05
Well, maybe not same business, but they been around and could
45:08
help you out and give you a lot of feedback.
45:10
And as you know, what's worth, whatever works for them and help
45:13
you kind of hurdle through and skip over those things that you
45:16
probably would have done on your own without having someone
45:19
guiding say, hey, maybe this isn't the best strategy.
45:21
Let's try this one. Let's try this.
45:23
And this is I've done over the past.
45:25
That's worked for me and Potentially work for you.
45:29
But in, thank you very much. And what would you do?
45:33
I asked this question a million times and I just suddenly change
45:36
it. What is the biggest life lesson
45:38
you've learned so far? Just keep going, don't give up
45:42
just keep trying, and never give up whatever it maybe would like
45:47
sports. Like, you try to do this trick
45:49
or Thailand this shot or whatever it is.
45:52
Just keep working at it seems like business or anything.
45:54
I'm like, just don't get discouraged like but that's Hyo.
45:58
What? I focus on.
45:59
Takes like about six months. So I people just kind of give up
46:02
after a while and say, all right.
46:03
This isn't working. But it's got to keep pushing it
46:05
and working at it and you'll see eventually, it all comes to
46:09
personal work, same with, like trying anything in life.
46:11
If you keep working at it and working it, eventually you'll
46:14
get it, it just sometimes it takes longer.
46:16
Sometimes it takes shorter, I mean, we all want to go viral
46:19
and just have that. Instant just got a vacation to
46:21
just, be everywhere, but it does take time for all this stuff.
46:23
So, just, that's the biggest thing.
46:25
You just be patient that all excellent advice.
46:27
And also, I just want to To tap into one thing.
46:30
You said that, which I think is really bringing it back to walk.
46:34
Then I think it's an interesting point.
46:38
This idea of virality and turning turning that into
46:41
something I think it's very dangerous when you get viral and
46:45
then you're chasing the virality thing because Going viral is
46:53
like a lot of time really unpredictable.
46:55
Like, okay, I had a viral video. I've had a few that have had
46:59
like hundreds of thousands of years away, but officially,
47:02
apparently, if you get more than 1 million views, that's
47:04
considered viral. Okay.
47:06
So on that basis, I had a video that got to, like 2.9 million
47:11
views on Tick-Tock and it was really random it was Stitch.
47:16
So for those who don't know, it's basically where you take
47:19
one part of an existing video. Bo and you add something to it.
47:23
And you essentially create something new and it was me just
47:27
me reacting doing something silly and that got to in point,
47:32
nine million views and also interestingly, a lot of use in
47:35
the Middle East and even to this day, I'm still scared because I
47:38
find the analytics side of things fascinating, and I'm just
47:41
sitting there like, why, why is that going huge there?
47:44
And what's the reason behind that and this yiy, what, like, I
47:48
feel like a lot of marketing is that and it's kind of fun.
47:50
So stressful sometimes depends, what is interesting but point
47:57
being like, I think what when it comes to going viral, the best
48:00
thing you can do off. The back of that is just try to
48:05
kind of get people to pay attention to the things you're
48:09
actually trying to push that just sort piggyback off that
48:11
initially and be like, oh hey by the way, I do this thing, you
48:14
know, or like immediately post into that.
48:16
So for example, one of the things I was doing when that
48:19
happened was Eating a lot of videos related to that that was
48:24
like, responses to things that people would set in the
48:27
comments. People will still viewing those
48:29
videos because it was on that existing, like thread and it was
48:33
still related to that. And that lasted, maybe like a
48:35
month or whatever. And then it dies down and nobody
48:38
cares, but you keep going on and you keep moving forward, and you
48:42
keep trying to do stuff. That is related to your brand.
48:46
But also, you know, you're going with what the algorithm is
48:49
suggesting in your It onto it. So like well I do is weave
48:53
Tick-Tock as I have like three accounts once specifically for
48:57
the podcast, that's all you see. Is just podcast Clips.
49:01
One is the account that went viral that.
49:03
I've now kind of changed into like, a more formal platform
49:08
that just advertisers like, hey, I do podcasts and I'm pursuing
49:13
acting and I do this, and I do that and, you know, it's like a
49:18
an advertising platform. Suppose.
49:21
And then this other account that I have is purely just to kind of
49:27
test the algorithm and basically select.
49:30
I wonder if this would work is literally just messing around
49:33
and I keep it again, go back to the point about branding
49:36
earlier, I keep it consistent in that, I don't do anything that I
49:39
think could affect my brand in a negative way.
49:42
And I've had to kind of review that constantly as well,
49:46
because, you know, we're human, we make mistakes.
49:48
But the point is, The whole time, it's like a learning
49:52
exercise. And what I've learned a lot of
49:55
the time is that in general virality is just this kind of
50:01
thing that connects with people randomly.
50:03
It could even be something that's just really popular at
50:05
that one time. Like, I've seen stranger things
50:08
was really popular for a little bit and then, you know, people
50:11
kind of made things in relation to that and it kind of people
50:15
hop on what whatever is in particularly popular in that
50:19
moment and they showcase their skills or their interest in that
50:23
or they do something funny or whatever and they kind of
50:26
latched onto that thing and It's something out of it.
50:30
But other times, it's just completely random and there's
50:33
just no Rhyme or Reason to it, and you just have to kind of
50:35
accept it and just move on. And I guess what I'm trying to
50:40
say in a very long-winded way, is don't get bogged down with
50:43
the virality thing, guys, whatever you're creating, keep
50:48
creating for, whatever it is, that you're trying to do
50:52
whatever product or service, you're trying to sell.
50:55
Stay on that lane, you can deviate out Out of it.
50:57
Absolutely, try different things, but stay on that lane.
51:00
Don't go too far from the that path that you're trying to go
51:04
with it. And if you do want to
51:07
experiment, try what I did. You know, sup look a new account
51:10
and just test things out, see what happens and try and
51:14
leverage it, and push it back to what you're doing.
51:17
So for example, on that test account that I've got usually do
51:21
like live streams on there. And I'll often talk about like,
51:24
oh hey, by the way, did you do it?
51:25
No, I do a podcast. And when people Oh, okay.
51:29
You're like yeah, this is where you can find it that it added a
51:32
some people care. Most people won't because it's
51:34
short form platform but some people will and some of those
51:37
people have actually come over and checked it out and some of
51:41
those people still listen to. Thank you very much.
51:43
There you go. Anyway.
51:46
Yeah, I just want to say a massive, thank you for appearing
51:50
on the show Brandon. It's been an absolute pleasure
51:52
picking your brains about digital marketing and just
51:54
learning from you. Final question for you.
51:57
Have any upcoming projects or some final thoughts that you'd
52:00
like to share with our listeners?
52:02
I'm just working on this year still just keep in touch on that
52:05
and try to get people out free traffic and just be patient with
52:09
it all. That's the main thing is with
52:10
SEO and digital marketing is just be patient and I could get
52:14
that instant results and cigar vacation.
52:16
I mean, some people go viral but most the time it takes time and
52:20
just keep working it. And over time you'll see
52:22
yourself growing and growing and getting that traction.
52:24
But just keep working at it. Don't get discouraged to be on
52:26
see those instant results. Britain advice, thank you so
52:30
much, been a real pleasure and to all the listeners of
52:33
Christian report cast, as always be safe.
52:36
Be well, and I'll see you in the next one.