Latest / Rusty's Garage / Tony Cochrane (Part 1)

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Tony Cochrane (Part 1) · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:14
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:27
  For this episode, I'm in Queensland at the offices of Cochrane Entertainment.
• 0:31
  The former chairman of Supercars, Tony Cochrane, and I have been tic-tac-ing during the chaos of COVID for what seems like an eternity, trying to organise this one because so many of you have asked for it.
• 0:44
  It's great that the planets have finally aligned.
• 0:47
  To know TC or Cocko is to know that he's outspoken and unapologetically so.
• 0:53
  He's got strong views and absolutely earned the right to them.
• 0:57
  He's also tough on himself when things don't go to plan.
• 1:01
  More on that later.
• 1:02
  Now, you know my policy on these pods.
• 1:04
  It's the guest in their words.
• 1:06
  And often you can find the balance or right of reply on some subjects in other pods in our Rusty's Garage Library.
• 1:14
  We'll talk about his early years in the lighting business, the approaches and meetings to get him involved in supercars.
• 1:21
  There's yarns on that topic you're unlikely to have ever heard before.
• 1:25
  how he felt about selling and the end of his incredible chapter with the sport.
• 1:30
  You'll love the insights on working with the great Barry Sheen, and I know you want his thoughts on the current era of supercars too.
• 1:38
  We go there, but remember, he's not big on constantly throwing stones from the sidelines.
• 1:44
  Some might argue what worked so well in his chapter may not be right for now.
• 1:49
  Conversely, the Hall of Famer has some seriously impressive runs on the board when it comes to promoting, and there are all sorts of reminders around us, as we record here, of the big names and A-list acts and shows that he's played such an important part in during a life devoted to entertainment and sport.
• 2:08
  We'll also talk about his role now with the Gold Coast Suns AFL team,
• 2:13
  When things don't go right, as I said, in the risk-reward business that he's entrenched in.
• 2:18
  The cool car in his garage.
• 2:20
  Working with the Rolling Stones and a whole lot more.
• 2:23
  More than two and a half hours split into three parts.
• 2:27
  And all there for you to enjoy right now.
• 2:30
  I'm grateful that Tony's been so generous with his time.
• 2:34
  But instead of opening the batting with early life, as I often do with these podcasts, we're going to spend some time talking two wheels and a world championship supercross project that is clicking up a gear and has serious potential.
• 2:49
  It's interesting how life works sometimes, I guess, but I never seem to have a short story, all those long stories.
• 2:57
  But this situation came about really because Ryan Sanderson, who used to work for me back in the V8 supercar days, he and a great buddy of his, Adam Bailey, probably seven years ago, I guess now, started up a business called AusExOpen.
• 3:17
  which was fundamentally an exhibition way to showcase some of the world's best supercross riders in stadia.
• 3:27
  They started up in Sydney and then subsequently did Sydney for a number of years and then did a couple of events in New Zealand and then moved it in 2019 to Marvel Stadium to grow it even bigger.
• 3:40
  And on that journey, they asked me, would I come on board and be their chairman?
• 3:44
  And it was really a mentoring role, to be truthful.
• 3:47
  And I was happy to do that, help two young guys who were having a fair dinkum crack with their own money, which...
• 3:52
  They clearly impressed you, even back from the supercars days and what they were doing.
• 3:57
  What was it that you...
• 3:58
  Saw in them was at the events and what they'd achieved with their their own wherewithal what was it that stood out for you?
• 4:03
  Yeah, look I admire anybody that has a go, you know, it's really really easy one of the When you get older and a bit wiser one of the easiest things that People do is criticize and Australians are
• 4:19
  classics of being critics you know you often um you often read somebody you know who will bash out a few words and you know be super critical of what somebody else is doing but you know have they ever tried to do it themselves or had a real go themselves in 99 of cases the answer is no they're just a smart ass who think that they you know that can throw opinions from a thousand miles away
• 4:40
  So I really admired the fact that these two young guys had stumped up with their own money and had a real crack and had made a reasonably good fist of it.
• 4:50
  You know, I mean, it wasn't...
• 4:52
  It wasn't some multi-million dollar business, but, you know, they'd done a good job of it.
• 4:57
  And anyway, so I got involved and gave them a bit of strategic direction and gave them a bit of, you know, as it were, cocko faith in how you push hard and push further and push forward.
• 5:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:12
  And then during 2019, we started to get rumours out of the FIA where, you know, we got some good connections that –
• 5:28
  The FIA had had a gutful of the way that Feld had handled the World Championship because, again, for the benefit of your listeners, the FIA Supercross World Championship had been run for 24 years in one country, which is not quite – I will.
• 5:43
  Their concept of a world championship.
• 5:45
  As much as the Americans who love, you know, they've got the World Series baseball.
• 5:48
  Americans love, you know, and truly believe that, you know, the whole world starts in New York and ends in LA.
• 5:54
  And you go, if you want to go overseas for holidays, you go to Hawaii.
• 5:58
  And guess what?
• 5:58
  They've got the same currency.
• 6:00
  It's amazing.
• 6:02
  So, yeah.
• 6:04
  that had permeated for a long time and the FIM had been up with it for a long time and there's all sorts of stories I don't know what to believe I wasn't personally involved funnily enough it wasn't very different I go back far enough to the um sheeny days of um and um you know the the
• 6:22
  Situation that existed in in the late 80s and early 90s in North America with the American 500 CC championship which was regarded as a you know dominant championship of the world until dawn it came along and started to Take it on to our global platform and and of course over time the American championship died and and You look at the magnificent success dawn have made today of the 500 CC world championship but
• 6:50
  So we were aware of this and, you know, being Aussies who love to have a go, we debated and spent a bit of time trying to work out, you know, do you think we could have a crack at taking on the FIM Supercross World Championship?
• 7:04
  Yeah.
• 7:06
  And, you know, those meetings, all those fun and interesting.
• 7:08
  Well, I find them fun and interesting, I guess, but I'm a warp bit of a... Why?
• 7:12
  Why?
• 7:13
  Because they sort of, you know, you're from Australia.
• 7:14
  What the hell would you know about doing this sort of global thing or what's the reaction?
• 7:17
  Yeah, all of that, all of that.
• 7:18
  You know, you're three guys sitting in a room in Melbourne, Australia, and you're dreaming big.
• 7:23
  But, you know, how the hell do we actually do this, you know?
• 7:28
  So we, anyway, we messed around with it and drew up various models and stuff.
• 7:34
  And then, of course, COVID hit.
• 7:36
  And they got shut down like most people in the world.
• 7:40
  I think, you know, Feld in America went from having 1,800 staff within two weeks.
• 7:45
  They had, you know, 30 or something, you know.
• 7:48
  So they're a very big entertainment group.
• 7:51
  In actual fact, motorsports, the bike, Supercross was only a really small part of their overall business.
• 7:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:58
  But, you know, that impact of COVID globally, particularly in the entertainment and sports industries and the tourism industries was just, you know, massive, just killed off so many people and it's put the, you know, made the job so hard.
• 8:12
  And it still does today and it will be ongoing.
• 8:14
  In my opinion, I think we're three years away from getting clear of it.
• 8:17
  But anyway...
• 8:20
  Then when we were coming out of COVID last year, so 2020, I guess, we again heard strong rumours that the contract which was up for renegotiation in November of last year, that the FIM would look...
• 8:38
  to appoint a new operator for the FIM World Supercross.
• 8:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:43
  So we really got our act together at that stage.
• 8:46
  It was still in sort of, you know, parts of Australia, we were still in COVID lockdown.
• 8:51
  Luckily for us here on the Gold Coast, we weren't.
• 8:54
  So we already had, Sando was already living up here and we arranged to get Adam, you know, in the back of a car or hidden in a sheep truck or something.
• 9:07
  Um, and, uh, so we all got around, you know, um, this very board table we're sitting out now and we really did brainstorm very thoroughly.
• 9:15
  And then we brought in a couple of expertise to help us with modeling and what we were trying to achieve.
• 9:21
  Um, and we decided in July of last year, damn it, let's have a real crack.
• 9:25
  Look, there'll be big global groups that do it, but...
• 9:28
  you know, let's not die wondering.
• 9:31
  And so we put a really good team together to put a very, very interesting package to the FIM.
• 9:37
  We just focused on what we believe we could sell to the FIM.
• 9:42
  We didn't really focus on what,
• 9:46
  The AMA and Feld and people like that were doing because that's none of our business really.
• 9:50
  It's they're entitled to do think what they like And then lo and behold in September last year Feld announced they were giving up the FIM World Championship They were just going to run purely an American domestic series under the AMA and you know, they believe the
• 10:06
  they were the world for Supercross and everybody would keep coming there and, you know, um, so all was good in the world.
• 10:14
  And, um, we, um, we pushed on and, um, subsequently won the rights.
• 10:20
  Um, and, um,
• 10:22
  By the time we got through all the legals and all the other macerations of all of that, we didn't get the rights actually until Christmas Eve.
• 10:29
  Crazy.
• 10:30
  It was crazy and it was an exciting time and all the rest of it.
• 10:34
  And in amongst all of that...
• 10:37
  We had a fantastic opportunity to, obviously, it requires a lot of funding.
• 10:42
  It's an expensive exercise.
• 10:45
  And we wanted, we had several people wanting to fund it with us based a bit on our track record, but based on the fact that it's a World Series.
• 10:55
  Um, but we we particularly I was particularly keen for it to be a strategic partner So I want yes great that you've got a big wallet.
• 11:03
  That's terrific And you know, it's got to have the vision with us the she got to have the vision with us And you've got also about a helper strategically around the world and um We were really fortunate because uh, muba dollar showed Really keen interest almost from the first meeting um
• 11:18
  um you know we're right at the bottom end of the sort of activities they do we're in their um our particular businesses in what their sports and media fund which is about 80 billion dollar fund and that's the sport their sports and media fund is the smallest of their funds so it gives you an idea of their you know i think globally i think they're well over a trillion dollars um under fund and
• 11:40
  And so, you know, it just gave us an opportunity to really get together with some big boys who've got some tremendous sports and media properties all over the world and help, you know, over the next three to five years to grow this and build this into a business.
• 11:58
  So all the planets aligned really and out of that we got together a really great international board
• 12:04
  And we're now up and running.
• 12:06
  We're going to do a very small pilot series this year because of the nature of how late we got it and because we did not want to interfere with the American series this year, either supercross or motocross.
• 12:20
  So we were trying to be...
• 12:22
  partly respectful, even though we've been accused of being the opposite.
• 12:26
  The truth is we did make an attempt to show some respect and not sort of run on anybody's parade this year.
• 12:34
  But the clear plan is that we want to be really up and running properly for a full season starting June next year, June 23.
• 12:41
  So kick off, if I've got this right, is Cardiff early October.
• 12:46
  You're coming to Australia as well.
• 12:48
  10 teams.
• 12:49
  There's a local flavour, an international flavour about this.
• 12:51
  There are world champions that are a part of this.
• 12:53
  It's actually on paper, a really good foundation to launch from, isn't it?
• 12:58
  Oh, it is.
• 12:59
  And yeah, great credit here to Adam Bailey.
• 13:01
  He's done a superb job in team land, what I call team land.
• 13:06
  So we, again, we wanted to set it up very differently to the way the current American supercross is set up, where basically anybody can turn up and
• 13:15
  You know, you can try and enter and if you're lucky and you get through, you get through and you've got a weekend's racing.
• 13:21
  That's obviously a really expensive model because, you know, it's great for the ones that get through.
• 13:26
  For the ones that don't get through, they've spent a lot of money actually not getting any visibility or going anywhere.
• 13:34
  So our model is very much on the modeling.
• 13:37
  I originally started with the original V8 supercar wreck and we adapted some of that.
• 13:46
  We took some of the best out of the model that Formula One has with their teams and a little bit out of the – that's been used now in the NASCAR model have also gone to a franchise model.
• 13:59
  So obviously it's a way that I'm really familiar with and what I like about it most, it empowers teams.
• 14:07
  So the teams actually get to go on the journey with you.
• 14:09
  So if the business builds, guess what?
• 14:11
  So does their equity because the only way to come into our show is to buy out one of those existing 10 teams because our 10 teams provide two riders in the 450cc championship and two riders in the 250cc championship.
• 14:25
  So that's their equity.
• 14:28
  They own that stakeholding.
• 14:30
  They've got real genuine skin.
• 14:32
  And when they sit at a team owners meeting with us, they've got genuine skin in seeing this thing grow and develop.
• 14:38
  And so we're aligned.
• 14:41
  And we've put considerable financial clout behind that.
• 14:46
  I think it's over the first five years where we've committed to spending nearly $50 million on teams, prize money, appearance fees and the like.
• 14:55
  Um, so, um, yeah, we, we're, um, we're having a, a, a absolute 100% fair dick and crack at it.
• 15:02
  And then, you know, we're really proud of that because, um, for all the knockers and what have you out there, we're the very first Australian company ever to run an FIM or an FIA world championship.
• 15:13
  Huge.
• 15:14
  You walked the line there before.
• 15:16
  How much resistance have you had from the States?
• 15:18
  Are constituents buying into this?
• 15:21
  And what's the groundswell like over there?
• 15:24
  Because it is such a heartland for this game, isn't it?
• 15:27
  Oh, it is.
• 15:27
  And, you know, and let's be honest here.
• 15:30
  We're running a proper world championship, so we'll go to the United States once.
• 15:36
  So, you know, we'll touch base on their soil once and, you know, we'll go to other countries around them and the like.
• 15:45
  But, look, we're really focused on our gig.
• 15:49
  I mean, you know, we've copped a fair bit of flack from them and some of the American distributors and others
• 15:57
  um all the rest of it basically but yeah but you know look a long time ago i learned you know it's it's not a lot of time it's not worthwhile time if you spend looking over the fence trying to work out what your neighbor wants to do you're much better at getting on with your thing and building your thing and you know many of my war stories now from the v8 days
• 16:21
  Lo and behold, a bubbling to the surface.
• 16:23
  We were having the same issues, the same problems, the same experiences, good, bad and indifferent, that I had in the early days when I started V8 Supercar.
• 16:31
  You know, everybody reflects back and says, oh, look how well it grew and how easy it was and all of that.
• 16:38
  But, you know, Rusty, the truth is the first three or four years were really tough.
• 16:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:42
  So you've identified coming out of, you know, it's going to take us a while to get out of this COVID period and so on.
• 16:46
  You're going to gradually build here.
• 16:48
  Where do you see this thing ultimately going?
• 16:50
  What's it going to look like in five years' time in your mind?
• 16:55
  Well, you know, again, all you can do is put the spade in the dirt and try and turn it over and make it work.
• 17:03
  But our dream is to grow it to 16 international rounds by the fifth year.
• 17:10
  So we're very confident next year we'll have somewhere low end between nine and high end 11 events.
• 17:16
  With fast turnaround, like a week apart or something, if you go on country?
• 17:19
  Some are a week apart.
• 17:20
  We're air freighting everything.
• 17:22
  We've come up with specialised air cargo.
• 17:23
  I mean, one of the benefits of bikes is they don't take up a lot of room.
• 17:28
  So we've come up with an air freight concept and palletisation that basically will go in any international aircraft.
• 17:36
  So we're not reliant on freighters or any of that.
• 17:41
  So, yeah, some weeks we'll be back-to-back turnarounds and other times we'll have a three-week or four-week gap as we change continents perhaps or something like that.
• 17:50
  And also you have to fit in with the...
• 17:52
  you know, a world schedule because we, again, next year, you know, to try and do the right thing by the Americans, we're not going to race in the AMA part of the year.
• 18:02
  So, sorry, in the AMA Supercross part of the year.
• 18:05
  So they race between January and early May.
• 18:08
  So we're going to not start racing until the end of May and race through to sort of middle...
• 18:13
  of November.
• 18:15
  Adam and Ryan did a great job.
• 18:16
  I mean, I worked on a number of those AUSX Open telecasts and things.
• 18:20
  They were a great stadium, spectacular.
• 18:22
  That appeals to you, I know, in terms of what an audience would love, what a young audience loves in terms of fast turnaround on things from a...
• 18:32
  attention span, a connectivity style thing with your partners and so on.
• 18:36
  What are you going to do that's maybe a little different or is it about being the essence of that and the world championship?
• 18:43
  These are great shows, mate.
• 18:44
  That's what you're endeavouring to do here.
• 18:46
  It's entertainment at the end of the day that you love, isn't it?
• 18:49
  Yeah, look, it is, it is, and this is going to be an incredibly long answer, Rusty, but I want to take you on a journey a bit here because it's one of the core things that we recognised in this.
• 19:01
  Yeah.
• 19:04
  The fan of today, particularly the young fan, wants really good comfort.
• 19:11
  They want to be able to see it all.
• 19:13
  They're not interested in watching just part of the track anymore.
• 19:16
  That's a real challenge for motorsports, right?
• 19:20
  They...
• 19:23
  Attention span poor.
• 19:25
  In other words, anything that goes for longer than about 15 minutes, they tend to start switching off, right?
• 19:31
  So all our races during the night are sort of sub-15 minutes.
• 19:37
  But most importantly of all, and, you know, one of our directors, Tavo Hellman, the great American who started the Grand Prix in Texas and built the Circuit of the Americas and...
• 19:52
  And then refired up the Mexican Grand Prix in Mexico City.
• 19:58
  This is Tavo's point, and it's a really valid point.
• 20:01
  If you look at the last 30 odd years, ball sports have gone from playing in stadia and facilities that were subpar.
• 20:10
  You know, the seating was shit or non-existent.
• 20:13
  You slid down the side of a hill if it was a wet day or you got dusty if it was a dry day.
• 20:21
  The food
• 20:22
  If you could call it that was horrifying.
• 20:24
  Um, you know, it was a pretty terrible experience.
• 20:27
  Now ball sports all over the world have woken up to that and they've all created world-class stadia for their ball sports.
• 20:34
  So it doesn't matter which country of the world you look in.
• 20:38
  Um, uh, they've created some fabulous experiences to watch, whether it's soccer, football codes, NFL, AFL, it doesn't matter.
• 20:52
  that hasn't happened with motorsport.
• 20:54
  Motorsport, with the exception of a couple of Formula 1 events, by and large, is still a pretty crappy experience.
• 21:00
  You still go almost to the middle of nowhere to watch it, generally speaking, because generally speaking, the circuits are so big they have to be well out of cities or the racetracks or the dirt bike tracks or whatever they are.
• 21:16
  For the main part, the seating is temporary.
• 21:20
  So motorsport just has not taken that ride over that 30 years that ball sports have.
• 21:27
  Now, where we're quite unique, we're a motorsport product that by its very nature has to be in stadia.
• 21:36
  So we get the best of both worlds.
• 21:38
  So because of this huge, and there's been something like 300 major stadiums built around the world in the last 30 years that can hold 40,000 or more people, because we've got that as our playing surface.
• 21:53
  We pick up all those benefits.
• 21:55
  So we can put on a world-class FIM World Supercross in a beautiful stadium.
• 22:03
  By and large, they exist prominently in the middle of cities.
• 22:07
  So they've got great access, great transport facilities, great transport leaks.
• 22:12
  They've got wonderful food and beverage experiences both at the stadium and adjacent.
• 22:17
  Obviously, all the things like great seating, proper toilets, all of that's taken care of.
• 22:23
  And great viewing.
• 22:24
  So every one of our fans, even our fans sitting in the worst seat, can watch the whole of the racetrack.
• 22:31
  So that's a unique proposition.
• 22:33
  So this is one motorsport product that actually can tick all those boxes.
• 22:39
  um now what we wanted to do on top of that was make sure that we gave a unbelievable fan experience so our program takes about four hours it's made up of a number of heats and races getting to um the ultimate winner of in the case of melbourne the australian supercross grand prix uh 450cc champion and the
• 23:02
  250cc champion, get determined.
• 23:06
  But, you know, then we've put around it a lot of really great entertainment, both artists and FMX exhibition stuff.
• 23:15
  In actual fact, what we're trying to do is keep the show going for the whole night.
• 23:20
  we've gone down a very different track.
• 23:21
  We've gone down giving an immersive, exciting, fan experience night where even a fringe fan of Supercross can come along and go, holy shit, that was a great night.
• 23:32
  I've had a track load of fun.
• 23:34
  And what these guys do is amazing.
• 23:37
  I mean, you know, 10 teams, 40 of the world's very best riders, all battling it out.
• 23:43
  And then in every country we go to, we allow a couple of wild spots.
• 23:48
  For the locals to show their talent.
• 23:49
  Well, to give a local a chance.
• 23:51
  Who's to say that when we go next year to France, there's not some French kid who probably can cut the mustard, but has he ever been given a shot on the world stage?
• 24:00
  Or the next Chad Reid here or something, yeah.
• 24:01
  Correct.
• 24:02
  Every time.
• 24:03
  So we're going to give those young guys a chance to mix it.
• 24:07
  They're up for it.
• 24:08
  They're up for it.
• 24:08
  If they're not, they're not.
• 24:09
  But at least we'll be giving them a chance because we're trying to grow the sport.
• 24:12
  I mean, one of the fundamental things I believe in motorsports is you should be growing the sport as well.
• 24:20
  It's not just growing the fan base.
• 24:22
  You've got to grow the sport as well.
• 24:24
  It's a symbiotic relationship.
• 24:26
  And I think a lot of people have taken their eyes off that ball in my observation in motorsport over the last 10 or so years.
• 24:34
  In relation to this, TV is an important part of it, right?
• 24:37
  So you've secured what I think is one of the best blokes in the game internationally, let alone locally.
• 24:42
  A guy called Nathan Prendergast, who's my old colleague from Supercars.
• 24:46
  In the growing team of people that you have for this, he's an important part of it.
• 24:51
  Open question.
• 24:53
  Were you surprised they did not fence him in at supercars when the new ownership group came in?
• 24:58
  Because I would have thought one of the first things you would do is fence in a couple of key people to prevent them from going.
• 25:04
  Great coup by you guys.
• 25:05
  Fabulous that you could get him.
• 25:06
  Were you surprised they didn't do that?
• 25:09
  Um, well, to be honest, I don't know, you know, how they're running the business.
• 25:12
  So no, I really probably almost can't comment there.
• 25:16
  We, we, you know, we had two or three people that we were quite keen to, um, and we had a crack at two or three of them.
• 25:23
  And, um, then we had another probably four or five that wanted to, that had a crack at joining us.
• 25:29
  Um,
• 25:30
  Um, and, um, you know, uh, Nath is, you know, special.
• 25:36
  I mean, you know, he is a world-class operator.
• 25:41
  You know, he's, he's done, you know, his background.
• 25:43
  So he's had a crack at several big...
• 25:46
  events overseas, including Dakar.
• 25:48
  So, you know, he comes with a truckload of experience.
• 25:52
  I've obviously known the guy for a long time.
• 25:55
  You know, he was employed in my time at Supercars.
• 25:58
  Will you do some good things in that telecasting space with what you're planning to do?
• 26:01
  Yeah, yeah.
• 26:01
  Well, that's why we wanted him because, again, you know, if you look at the current...
• 26:06
  Supercross telecasting, it's pretty, it's not great TV.
• 26:09
  You know, it's done.
• 26:11
  You want that experience to be good too.
• 26:12
  It's done to a budget.
• 26:13
  We want to elevate it.
• 26:14
  We want it to be amazing.
• 26:15
  Now, some of the technology we want to bring on, we can't bring on for this year because it can't be ready in time, can't be tested sufficiently in time.
• 26:22
  But, you know, by next year, we'll have all of that technology into the broadcast.
• 26:26
  And Nath is just such an integral part of that.
• 26:30
  Plus, he's just a dead set great bloke to work with.
• 26:32
  I mean, you know that.
• 26:33
  I mean, he is – I love the guy.
• 26:36
  You know, he's just a really top bloke.
• 26:39
  And he gets on super with both Ryan and –
• 26:44
  Adam, and, you know, he's fitted right into our team.
• 26:49
  And, yeah, look, we couldn't be happier that he's on board.
• 26:53
  And quite a few of the international telecasters who have joined us have made the same comment.
• 26:57
  Oh, well, if he's on board, then you're obviously going to do a really good job of this.
• 27:01
  Excellent.
• 27:01
  will have a crack.
• 27:02
  I think we've already signed up something like 48 broadcasters around the world.
• 27:06
  It's not a bad effort when you don't have any product.
• 27:08
  No, that's fabulous.
• 27:09
  Two-part question to wrap up this chapter here.
• 27:11
  One about kind of future of motorcycling and young people and their engagement with that.
• 27:20
  But also, too, just on the broadcasting side, because at the moment there is still a level of...
• 27:24
  of um traditional thirst and want from either either pay television or or in some cases um you know your normal television channels here but a lot of sports have pushed and are pushing into their own space where you'll go direct to customer and so on is that something that's burbling away in the back of the minds of you guys and and things like that
• 27:45
  Yeah, well, firstly, I think that's a reflection of how young people think.
• 27:52
  I mean, it's really interesting.
• 27:53
  You can meet young people today and talk to them about free-to-air broadcast.
• 27:57
  They don't have a clue what you're talking about.
• 27:58
  People would never have watched it.
• 27:59
  Never watched it, yeah.
• 28:00
  So you've got to be careful what you wish for.
• 28:03
  But the truth of the matter is we have got some really...
• 28:08
  good expertise globally in this.
• 28:11
  We've been well served by Mubidala, introducing us to some really top line people both out of Europe and America.
• 28:20
  And so we're analysing all this very carefully.
• 28:23
  And I think what we'll end up with is a number of broadcasters, whether they be streaming partners, whether they be free-to-air broadcasters, whether they be...
• 28:31
  you know, KOs of the world.
• 28:34
  And we'll also have an OTT platform that, you know, that people can subscribe to and they can get...
• 28:41
  Extra content.
• 28:42
  Extra content and behind-the-scenes stuff.
• 28:44
  Excellent.
• 28:44
  And, you know, a monthly or a weekly, eventually it'll become weekly and won't start weekly, a program about what's going on in the world because...
• 28:53
  Um rusty it's pretty hard when you've got a you know, you've got to try and entertain fans that are down in Argentina At the same time you're entertaining fans that are in Japan Yes, and entertaining fans in um, you know done Eden in New Zealand.
• 29:06
  So um
• 29:08
  you've got to have a pretty wide remit of how you go about, if I can use the very loose term, broadcasting in this day and age.
• 29:17
  Nothing, you know, it's such a changing world now.
• 29:20
  I mean, it's just extraordinary how wide that dimension has become.
• 29:26
  And the one product in all of that that is meaningful is,
• 29:30
  I don't care who you are.
• 29:31
  I don't care if you're a free-to-air telecaster, you're a streaming service, you're an OTT platform, or whatever you may be.
• 29:40
  The one thing that's compelling is sport.
• 29:43
  Sport is at the very top of the tree for one simple reason.
• 29:47
  No one knows the results.
• 29:49
  Sport is one of the very few things you cannot time shift.
• 29:52
  You time shift it, somebody leaks you the results or you hear the results, the whole thing's ruined for you.
• 29:58
  So sport is at the top of the list of being compelling for all of those operators that...
• 30:04
  They're all rushing around the world trying to sign up, trying to get involved, trying to carry as much high-level content sport as possible because it is the go.
• 30:26
  Hearing stories from Tony really makes me think, hey maybe I should be an entrepreneur.
• 30:31
  My first idea?
• 30:33
  I'll reveal next guest.
• 30:35
  Gotta get a prototype first.
• 30:38
  Young kids are big on electrification with cars and so on.
• 30:43
  At the same time, the purists that love motorcycle racing love their four-strokes or two-strokes or whatever it might be.
• 30:50
  What's that delicate line like as you walk forward here?
• 30:53
  Because is there a want from the manufacturers to gradually involve a bit of that electrification side, or is this at the moment purely about the enthusiast that loves four-stroke and two-stroke motorcycles?
• 31:07
  Well, again, there's lots of parts to that answer.
• 31:10
  It's not a straightforward yes or no answer.
• 31:12
  So the first part is that dirt bike sales all over the world are going through the gazooka.
• 31:17
  Yes.
• 31:17
  I mean, they're doing...
• 31:18
  Even in COVID, they went crazy, didn't they?
• 31:20
  It's nuts.
• 31:20
  I mean, it's nuts.
• 31:22
  There's no dirt bike manufacturer that can truly look you in the eye and say, oh, yeah, we're absolutely keeping up with production because they're not.
• 31:29
  Yeah.
• 31:31
  And so we've got seven manufacturers potentially who can be in the championship right now.
• 31:36
  Next year it'll be eight because Triumph joins the championship because of their entry into dirt bike racing and dirt bike manufacturer generally.
• 31:46
  Then you've got at least one other in Europe who probably is going to be there in 24 and one other out of India that probably wants to be there by 24 or 25.
• 31:57
  So the dirt bike manufacturing...
• 32:01
  segment is growing and possibly there'll be nine or ten within a further two years.
• 32:09
  There's already seven.
• 32:10
  So it's a very strong marketplace to be operating in all over the world.
• 32:16
  And not just unique to, yes, 30% of their market is the United States of America, but the
• 32:24
  The moment you say that statistic, of course, that means 70% is everywhere else.
• 32:29
  So there is a huge global demand.
• 32:32
  We are going to go to a, for want of a better word, a clean fuel, probably for the 23 season.
• 32:40
  Excellent.
• 32:41
  Couldn't make it happen in time for this year, but certainly I don't see any reason why we won't have that in 23.
• 32:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:50
  which will be a biodegradable fuel.
• 32:52
  So, you know, that's the first step.
• 32:56
  The next part is in our FIM rights, we also hold the rights to electric.
• 33:00
  So if at some point in time where the manufacturers deem that electric's important, we already hold those rights, we can start to go in that direction.
• 33:11
  Okay.
• 33:12
  And we may do that by some demonstration stuff initially.
• 33:15
  We may do it by, you know, some junior development racing that we allow on our program.
• 33:21
  As I said, one of the cores of our sort of premise for Bean is to grow the sport of Supercross worldwide.
• 33:29
  And, you know, and that starts with kids riding 50ccs.
• 33:32
  You know, that doesn't start when you've got a 19-year-old who suddenly decides he wants to buy a 250cc bike.
• 33:39
  So there's a lot of work to do in that space.
• 33:43
  And if I've been able to answer your question in part with the sort of quick synopsis I've given of that space, so be it.
• 33:53
  But, you know, look, it's going to change.
• 33:55
  Over the course of the next 20 years, we hold the rights for 20 years.
• 33:58
  Over the course of the next 20 years, it's going to change.
• 34:01
  I've got a question.
• 34:02
  I've got some from various fans that have chimed in that I hope you don't mind taking.
• 34:06
  They're on all different topics.
• 34:08
  One of them here has come... Too many explainatives.
• 34:10
  No, no, no, they're all good.
• 34:11
  Too many explainatives.
• 34:11
  They're actually quite good, really thought-provoking ones.
• 34:13
  Some of them are quite common, so we'll bounce through them.
• 34:15
  But here's one from Ben Townley, who's been an MX2 world champion, a well-known Kiwi.
• 34:20
  He says, long-time listener, first-time caller, really keen to hear you chat to him about WSX.
• 34:25
  I'd be keen to hear his overall thoughts on it, especially being an outsider to the sport with his history and achievements in the four-wheel promotion.
• 34:33
  What can be achieved with this platform?
• 34:35
  Now, you've covered a lot of that there.
• 34:37
  We've got, you know...
• 34:39
  You've got a long-time love of cars and motorsport generally, but I think where he's going here is your broad entertainment perspective and what you've looked at with Adam and with Ryan and what you might perhaps do differently to change this up for the entertainment side.
• 34:56
  Yeah, well, clearly...
• 34:59
  I am no expert on anything two wheels.
• 35:04
  But here's another trick.
• 35:05
  I was no expert on anything four wheels.
• 35:07
  I was never a race car driver.
• 35:09
  I never came through any sort of interest as in, you know, getting behind the wheel or being a mechanic or that.
• 35:17
  That wasn't my background.
• 35:18
  My background was always one of being, you know, the entrepreneur, the promoter.
• 35:23
  So I'm not viewing this any differently.
• 35:25
  I am certainly not sitting in meetings giving direction about, you know, what tyres the guys should be running on or, you know, the two-stroke engine should be a four-stroke engine or the four-stroke engine should be a two-stroke engine.
• 35:40
  That is not my role.
• 35:41
  We've got some great expertise.
• 35:44
  Kev Williams, you know, Adam himself.
• 35:46
  You know, Adam was, you know, a coach.
• 35:48
  quite a decent rider in his own right in his day.
• 35:51
  Still enjoys it now, I think, occasionally.
• 35:53
  Still enjoys it now.
• 35:53
  So, you know, we've got a lot of expertise sitting around the table who have the expertise of the sport.
• 35:58
  That is not Tony Cochran's role.
• 36:02
  And thank God, by the way.
• 36:03
  Thank God.
• 36:05
  But my role is to try and help the guys see the big picture.
• 36:10
  My role is to try and roll out the business, give it some platform, ensure that we can find a way to grow, have some vision.
• 36:24
  Um, you know, and that's probably the biggest thing that I am is I'm kind of a visionary guy and And vision fails too, by the way, you know, I mean, I've I've had plenty of mistakes in my life Um and plenty of critics around those mistakes, but
• 36:40
  That does not stop me from seeing an opportunity and seeing the vision of that opportunity.
• 36:45
  And I think the opportunity here is immense, absolutely immense.
• 36:48
  I mean, you basically had a world-class sport that's been landlocked in the USA for 24 years-ish.
• 36:55
  Yes, it has moments where it has a flourish in exhibition events, whether they be in Australia, New Zealand, or France, or Brazil, or Sweden, you know.
• 37:06
  Yes, but this is an opportunity to expand World Supercross right across the planet, which will only encourage young people to take it up.
• 37:18
  It'll encourage the use of these bikes more in a recreational sense.
• 37:23
  It will give the opportunity to find the next star out of New Zealand or out of Peru or out of Brazil or out of France or out of Sweden or wherever.
• 37:35
  right and um uh we believe we can grow interest in the sport we believe we can create more fans to supercross than currently exist and there are a lot when you actually when you look at the sort of research that we went into for this and we spent a lot of money on that research there are an awful lot of uh fans out there who are just not being serviced as i would say and um
• 37:59
  we're going to try and service them and expand the interest in Supercross generally, which has got to be good for, you know, every layer of the sport all over the world.
• 38:09
  It doesn't matter where the layer comes in.
• 38:12
  If they've got a pinnacle, if they've got a focus point, it's got to help build the layer of the land across the world in Supercross.
• 38:19
  Can I rewind the clock immensely here now to the very beginning of all this chapter for you?
• 38:24
  You're originally from South Australia, now a proud Queenslander.
• 38:29
  How did this all begin for you, this whole entrepreneurial show-style journey?
• 38:35
  Was it Tony Cochran and a Holden panel van and a set of lights and things like that going and doing events?
• 38:42
  How did that all start?
• 38:44
  You're not far off.
• 38:44
  It was actually a falcon.
• 38:45
  A falcon, was it?
• 38:47
  Look, as stupid as it may seem, so...
• 38:51
  This is boring for most people.
• 38:52
  It's not.
• 38:53
  Yes, I started in Adelaide.
• 38:55
  I started in concert lighting production with a partner, Phil Hattie, and we started a very small business called High White Lighting.
• 39:04
  We were both still at school.
• 39:07
  Did you always have that entrepreneurial side at school?
• 39:09
  Were you always thinking of...
• 39:11
  Yeah, I did.
• 39:12
  In fact, I only stayed on and tried to make out I was doing Year 12 because I managed to convince everybody that I would run the Year 12 camp that year.
• 39:24
  And so my first step in that was to get a dollar off everybody per week towards the camp.
• 39:29
  So when they turned up at the camp, they had the best line-up of entertainment they'd ever seen.
• 39:33
  Excellent.
• 39:34
  It was quite funny.
• 39:36
  But I really enjoyed all of that sort of stuff.
• 39:43
  sort of so production lighting got me into building this small company up in Adelaide with Phil and the guys and we expanded we got into audio we sort of got into domestic lighting then we bought out a business in Adelaide called Wavels which was a major party hire business and I don't know maybe I got to my mid-20s or something like that and I decided that
• 40:09
  It wasn't long-term for me as in the sense that I had been observing and watching and worked out that the role and the job that I really liked was being the promoter So I sort of morphed myself sideways into that With a couple of different manoeuvres and got involved in a couple of national tours in a small way And then probably got my first really big break by um um
• 40:37
  Doing the ultimate event at sanctuary cave to open sanctuary cave and I subsequently brought out, you know Frank Sinatra and Whitney Houston and Clive James and a bunch of other entertainers to be a big part of what turned into you know be one of Australia's biggest ever parties in the first week of January in 1988 amazing so that's kind of a quick cook's tour of you know of of How I sort of got from downtown Adelaide in a in a little shop to
• 41:06
  doing a few things on a bigger scale and cranking off on my own.
• 41:11
  Most people listening, me included, if you were in a room with Mick Jagger or Whitney Houston or Frank Sinatra would be almost speechless.
• 41:20
  Were you ever daunted by those people or did you immediately connect with them?
• 41:25
  And how did you go with the phone calls of, g'day, Tony Cochran here, we'd love to run this, will you be involved?
• 41:32
  people that know me well say he's a pretty good talker yes i look i i know i've also been a reasonably confident sort of person um you know sort of from you know latter teenage years anyway onwards um and um you know i've i don't know why i've always loved having a crack i've always loved having a go and um
• 41:54
  I've had this sort of little thing in the back of my head of us saying, you know, have a shot, you know, if you fail, you fail.
• 42:01
  And then I get really down when I do fail.
• 42:03
  That's really the dichotomy of me.
• 42:06
  I hate failing.
• 42:08
  So when I do fail, I'm not a happy camper at all.
• 42:12
  But I've always bounced back.
• 42:14
  I've always just, oh, go again.
• 42:16
  You know, fail, doesn't matter, go again.
• 42:19
  So, you know, I guess I...
• 42:25
  two things probably interacted.
• 42:27
  One, I love to have a crack.
• 42:30
  And two, I love to put unique things together, particularly unique things that people say.
• 42:34
  The best thing anybody can say to me is, oh, that won't work.
• 42:39
  Because it's like lighting a fuse.
• 42:42
  Oh, Rusty, it's like lighting a fuse.
• 42:46
  And away I go.
• 42:47
  And, you know, and then...
• 42:52
  I was in the entertainment business and did pretty well, did really well out of a tour of Frank Gleiser and Sammy, the three of them together.
• 43:01
  Amazing.
• 43:02
  Which I did, my joint venture partner on that was Michael Gidinski, Matt Frontier Tourian, and Michael Chugg.
• 43:08
  I probably knew Chuggie a lot better than I knew Gidinski back in those days.
• 43:12
  And, you know,
• 43:14
  sort of been in those two's back pockets on and off over 40 odd years had some magnificent arguments and had some magnificent wins so you know it's been a kind of labor of love
• 43:26
  uh and then i got involved with img because img wanted to get into um sport sorry i apologize img wanted to get into um entertainment so uh the img boss in those days in australia was james erskine and james erskine um uh we had a joint venture together and we lost money on it um
• 43:49
  And he said, look, don't worry about paying back your share.
• 43:52
  Come and work for me for a year and help us, show us entertainment.
• 43:56
  And, again, landed on my feet completely because I was barely in the building working with them for six months, I reckon it was.
• 44:05
  And my...
• 44:11
  great one one of my great mates at that time um in um the notorious harry m miller and um trying to also think who who else was involved in superstar in day one um he says looking around Gary Van Egmont sorry I'm having a middle blank and Gary Van Egmont came up with the idea of doing superstar in arenas and
• 44:33
  um so we're talking now about 19 maybe 1990 something like that 91 um and i said yeah i'm up for that that sounds great you know and then i felt oh you know i've now done this bit with img i've really got to bring them into it and i can't you know leave them out so um uh took
• 44:55
  you know, a third into IMG and convinced James it was a good deal and they jumped on board.
• 45:00
  Of course, that was just massive.
• 45:02
  It was just a huge, huge success.
• 45:04
  What are we talking there?
• 45:06
  Kate Sobrano, John Stevens.
• 45:08
  Yeah, Kate Sobrano, John Stevens.
• 45:13
  I've got a mental blank on the other one.
• 45:14
  I did go and see it and I loved it.
• 45:15
  I thought it was tremendous.
• 45:16
  Yeah.
• 45:17
  Yeah, well, of course, John Farnham was the key.
• 45:18
  Oh, correct.
• 45:19
  Correct.
• 45:20
  John played Jesus.
• 45:23
  But, yeah, it was a terrific cast.
• 45:24
  Originally, Anthony Wallow was actually going to be in it and then he got sick right on the start of rehearsals and so we had to replace Anthony.
• 45:35
  But that was a terrific show and a terrific cast, and we really pulled it off and really created something unique in Australian entertainment history.
• 45:42
  I think we ended up doing something like 70 arenas around.
• 45:45
  We went around Australia three times.
• 45:48
  And so that was all great.
• 45:50
  And then so I had this three- or four-year period with IMG, which every year we'd get into an argument about, I've done my year, I'm out of here now, I want to go back and work for myself.
• 46:00
  I don't like working for other pricks.
• 46:02
  LAUGHTER
• 46:03
  Was it said just like that?
• 46:05
  Yeah, pretty much And, you know, I remember I had a couple of fascinating phone calls from Cleveland With the late and great Mark McCormick Who started that business, you know And full kudos to him I mean, he invented the sports management business So Mark was a genius and well ahead of his time
• 46:25
  But, you know, I really didn't get on.
• 46:27
  I probably wasn't the kind of guy who, you know, Cleveland head office and I sort of didn't get on.
• 46:32
  They wanted all these reports all the time and I'm not big on writing reports.
• 46:36
  I'm much better at doing than, you know, bashing out copious notes on something.
• 46:43
  So we just did this crazy thing every year, and James would try and talk me into carrying on another year, and, you know, then they'd throw more money at me, or, you know, I used to be famous for throwing a new title at me, so, you know, I'd end up with a new title every year.
• 46:58
  In amongst all of that...
• 47:02
  Sheeney, Barry Sheene, had moved back to Australia, and he was sort of being looked after in principle by James Erskine.
• 47:12
  But I lived on the Gold Coast, and so did Sheeney.
• 47:15
  So I sort of, by default, sort of took over...
• 47:19
  running sheenie's life from a commercial point of view as much as you can nobody ever ran sheenie's life sheenie ran his own life i mean sheenie was one of the greatest geniuses with sponsorship and sponsorship of self that i've ever come across without a shadow of a doubt if you had ever written a book on it it would have been a bestseller um
• 47:39
  So Sheenie and I became great mates.
• 47:42
  He was part lunatic and so was I.
• 47:45
  And I loved his sense of humour.
• 47:48
  You hit it off, didn't you?
• 47:49
  Yeah, we really did hit it off.
• 47:50
  We were great mates.
• 47:52
  Anyway, I then got approached during that time to...
• 48:00
  I knew John Faye, the then Premier of New South Wales, and he got one of his guys to ring me up.
• 48:06
  and say, look, we're in a spot of bother.
• 48:08
  We've got the World 500cc Grand Prix here at Sydney at Eastern Creek.
• 48:14
  You might recall they especially built the track at Eastern Creek for the 500.
• 48:19
  And the contract was controlled and run in those days by the Autocycle Union of New South Wales, who had just gone bankrupt or sort of gone into liquidation at least.
• 48:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 48:31
  And, yeah, that's great.
• 48:33
  You know, what's it got to do with me?
• 48:34
  Well, unfortunately, the way the contract's written, the government are now responsible for it.
• 48:39
  And this is like, this conversation's going on in, like, November, right?
• 48:43
  And I go, yeah, but isn't it on in March?
• 48:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's on in March.
• 48:47
  Like, you know, four and a half months away.
• 48:49
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 48:51
  I said, well, okay, again, what's that got to do with me?
• 48:53
  Well, yeah.
• 48:55
  The Premier thought you might be the sort of person who could put a team together to run it because we've got to run it.
• 49:00
  We don't have any choice.
• 49:00
  We either just hand them the money and don't run it, which will be incredibly embarrassing for the government, or we run it.
• 49:08
  And I said, oh, shit, I don't know.
• 49:09
  Okay.
• 49:10
  So we sat around and had numerous meetings on it.
• 49:15
  And so I brought Sheeney in, of course.
• 49:17
  Yep.
• 49:18
  You know all things.
• 49:19
  Well, yeah.
• 49:20
  Jeez, cock, this would be great.
• 49:23
  So, um... Oh, yeah.
• 49:26
  Oh, yeah.
• 49:27
  Seedy and I have a bottle of Chardonnay.
• 49:30
  Yeah, as he always had with some ice in it.
• 49:32
  Complete with tipping ice blocks in it.
• 49:34
  Didn't matter whether you bought him a really good Chardonnay or a shitty one.
• 49:37
  Their obligatory ice blocks always ended up in his glass.
• 49:41
  We brainstormed around his kitchen table late one afternoon about, oh, yeah, we could do this.
• 49:49
  We could take this on.
• 49:50
  And anyway, and then I subsequently talked the powers that be at IMG into it and, you know, let's have a go.
• 49:56
  Worked out how much money we could possibly lose.
• 49:59
  You know, the government had underwritten a big chunk of it, so that was a good start.
• 50:02
  We had Eastern Creek booked and ready and willing, and we had Dawna turning up with the championship.
• 50:10
  So off we went on the great adventure of promoting motorsport.
• 50:15
  How good's this?
• 50:16
  What could possibly go wrong?
• 50:19
  Anyway, so we ran it and, yeah, we had a million and one hiccups and problems, but it was just so much fun just being with Sheedy.
• 50:29
  And, you know, we camped out together at Parramatta at the one decent hotel in those days that was out there and,
• 50:41
  Sheeney would run to the exact same format.
• 50:43
  We'd have dinner at the same time every night and we'd eat in the same Italian restaurant every night.
• 50:48
  Just down the road from the Hilton or whatever it was.
• 50:50
  I can't remember if it wasn't a Hilton.
• 50:50
  No, it wasn't a Hilton.
• 50:51
  I think it was a Park Royal.
• 50:53
  Park Royal, well done.
• 50:57
  And we did this event.
• 50:58
  Of course, he introduced me to a lot of people in the Dorner Paddock.
• 51:01
  And, you know, Mick Doohan, of course, was the champion and, you know, and subsequently turned up and performed quite well.
• 51:09
  So, yeah, look, it was fun.
• 51:12
  And I think we, you know, we kept our head above water.
• 51:14
  We made a few bucks and, you know, Sheeny made a few bucks.
• 51:17
  And he thought that was pretty good.
• 51:19
  And so I think we did one more year of that.
• 51:22
  And then a guy who I now deal with in AFL, so it's very funny, the world just keeps turning.
• 51:30
  Jeff Kennett was the then Premier of Victoria.
• 51:33
  And, of course, he stole it back.
• 51:35
  to um phillip island phillip island where it's remained ever since um which is a wonderful circuit i love phillip island it's a beautiful beautiful circuit if it was an hour closer to melbourne it would be one of the world's great circuits it's probably just a little bit far out of melbourne but it's a tremendous uh tremendous facility and very well run by the foxes
• 51:54
  Anyway, so we did two years of going bike racing, and Sheedy and I sat down and had a few more obligatory Chardonnays at the end of that, and we thought, hey, that was cracking, you know, good fun.
• 52:06
  And, of course, intermuxed all of that, we had another brain wave that Sheedy wouldn't mind me just talking about now.
• 52:16
  Sheedy and I, in a half-drunken stupor one night, decided, oh, let's go and buy out the FIM 500 CC rights, right?
• 52:26
  So, Dorna was going through a period at that stage.
• 52:29
  It's probably about the early to mid-90s where they were a bit shaky and had a few issues.
• 52:34
  So, um, and Sheenie had all this.
• 52:36
  He knew everything, didn't he?
• 52:37
  He knew everything and everybody.
• 52:38
  Yep.
• 52:38
  And, uh.
• 52:39
  We've got to go and meet this guy.
• 52:40
  He'll sort it.
• 52:41
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 52:41
  And so, um, Sheenie and I actually went off, uh, on a, a trip to, uh, we started off, we flew to London, um, at the pointy end of the plane.
• 52:51
  And, you know, that was also interesting with Sheenie because you had to stop him from smoking in the toilets.
• 52:56
  LAUGHTER
• 52:57
  Because he used to take a packet of smokes, a packet of chitans on board and a can of Mr Sheen.
• 53:05
  And so as he would be smoking into the toilet bowl, he'd be spraying over his head for the censor.
• 53:12
  He would have figured out this will stop it going off.
• 53:14
  Is that what he did?
• 53:15
  Correct.
• 53:16
  And at the same time with the head purser usually coming up, saying to me, you're his manager, aren't you?
• 53:24
  We know he's smoking in there.
• 53:25
  You've got to stop him.
• 53:27
  I said, ma'am, I never make a habit of walking to locked toilets.
• 53:33
  So she was just a buzz, travelling with Sheen.
• 53:38
  He was hilarious.
• 53:39
  Anyway, so we flew on to Geneva and we had a big meeting with the FIM and we tried to convince them that we were up for it and...
• 53:47
  And I think it probably, you know, what it was, as mad as an idea as it had, I think we probably could have bought out Dorner and done it.
• 53:54
  That's amazing.
• 53:55
  But what did us was IMG just weren't interested.
• 53:58
  They thought it was a financial miss.
• 54:01
  Okay.
• 54:01
  They just... Because of the state they were in at the time or the challenges?
• 54:04
  Yeah, I think so.
• 54:05
  I think so.
• 54:06
  So, you know, so...
• 54:08
  That was kind of a flop failure.
• 54:10
  And Sheen and I were pretty cut up about that because we thought it really had some yards.
• 54:13
  And we probably didn't have a great deal of support within the IMG bandwagon, to be truthful.
• 54:19
  I mean, a couple of people, probably James was a bit lukewarm interested, but most of the rest weren't that interested.
• 54:31
  That's the end of part one of my podcast with former Supercars boss Tony Cochran.
• 54:35
  How good are the Barry Sheen stories?
• 54:38
  We really miss him.
• 54:39
  There are more of those to come.
• 54:41
  That's the good news.
• 54:42
  And what about that 500cc bit?
• 54:44
  I hadn't heard much about that before.
• 54:47
  What could have been?
• 54:48
  Don't forget, this is a mammoth three-parter.
• 54:50
  Tony loves a chat and there's lots of ground, lots of ground still to cover, including some of your questions.
• 54:57
  I won't get to all of them, thanks to everyone who commented on social media with things that you wanted me to hit him up on.
• 55:03
  Now, part two is all loaded up in the library for you to enjoy right now.
• 55:07
  So give it a listen when you've got time.
• 55:09
  From the Gold Coast Indie Carnival to the secret meets that led to supercars.
• 55:14
  A clever chess move to stage a rival Bathurst 1000 and what went on behind the scenes.
• 55:20
  Needing a bodyguard for a time.
• 55:23
  And the growth of the sport of V8 supercars.
• 55:26
  How the drivers became stars during a golden period for the sport.
• 55:38
  Listener.