Latest / Heroes Behind the Badge / Heroes Behind the Badge: Capitol Police Chief Steve Sund's Story - Part III

Transcript

Heroes Behind the Badge: Capitol Police Chief Steve Sund's Story - Part III · Heroes Behind the Badge

• 0:09
  Dennis Collins: Welcome back to heroes behind the badge.
• 0:12
  We tell real stories about real cops.
• 0:15
  We expose the fake news about police and we give you.
• 0:20
  The Real Truth.
• 0:21
  This podcast is brought to you by Citizens Behind the Badge, the leading voice of the American
• 0:27
  people in support of the men and women in law enforcement dedicated
• 0:31
  to ending the disastrous movement to defund and defame the police.
• 0:36
  I'm your host.
• 0:37
  Dennis Collins, a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge.
• 0:41
  I'm joined today by my colleagues Bill Erfurth and Craig Floyd.
• 0:46
  Bill is a retired Miami Dade police lieutenant with 26 years of decorated service.
• 0:52
  He is also a founding board member of Citizens Behind the Badge.
• 0:56
  Craig Floyd is the founder, the president, and CEO of Citizens Behind the Badge.
• 1:02
  Many of you probably know Craig as the founding CEO emeritus of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund.
• 1:09
  Craig led the team that built the Law Enforcement Memorial and the National
• 1:14
  Law Enforcement Museum in Washington D.C. No one has worked longer or harder.
• 1:20
  to advocate and support law enforcement.
• 1:24
  So today our podcast concludes our three part conversation with former U. S. Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund.
• 1:33
  In the past two episodes, Chief Sund has documented the lead up to January 6, 2021 and the minute
• 1:41
  by minute harrowing account of what happened on the actual day.
• 1:47
  From the inside, from Chief Sund's point of view.
• 1:50
  If you miss those, be sure to check them out on Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.
• 1:57
  So Steve started his law enforcement career with the Metro Washington D.C. Police.
• 2:01
  He held numerous leadership positions over his 25 year career.
• 2:05
  He commanded Metro PD's SOD, Special Operations Division, handling major events, security operations.
• 2:14
  He helped coordinate security for many of the high profile events that happen in and around D.C. In 2017, Steve
• 2:22
  moved to the U. S. Capitol Police, and in 2019, he was promoted to Chief.
• 2:28
  He was the Chief, of course, during the January 6, 2021 riot at the Capitol.
• 2:33
  Steve is also a member of the Citizens Behind the Badge Law Enforcement Advisory Council.
• 2:39
  He wrote a book.
• 2:40
  Called Courage Under Fire, where he offers his detailed documentation
• 2:46
  of the events leading up to, during, and after the incident.
• 2:51
  In this final episode, Chief Sund offers us his account of the aftermath.
• 2:57
  of January 6th and the lasting impact.
• 3:01
  Here now is part 3 of our conversation with Chief Steven Sund.
• 3:06
  Craig Floyd: Steve, you lost your job.
• 3:09
  You were obviously, you and your family were deeply affected
• 3:12
  and continue to be affected by what happened on January 6th.
• 3:16
  But there were also, uh, uh, injures, injuries to your officers, uh, several officers died as a result of January
• 3:24
  6th, um, and all of your officers who were there that day, uh, suffered, uh, not only physical, uh, injury,
• 3:32
  but also, uh, mental health injuries, uh, tell us about, uh, the effects
• 3:37
  on your officers and some of the lives that were lost as a result.
• 3:41
  Steven Sund: So when you, when you look at it and any law enforcement agency, uh, or any law enforcement, uh, officer
• 3:47
  that goes through a, a significant critical incident, uh, and I would say what these officers went through
• 3:52
  was, was pretty significant, uh, will carry that with them for a long time.
• 3:55
  I, like I said, I still talk to officers, you know, there
• 3:58
  are still a number of them out there dealing with it.
• 4:00
  Um, so getting the, the proper counseling, uh, helping them through it, um.
• 4:05
  I think has been, uh, is important, especially following a critical incident.
• 4:10
  You know, when you think about the, the, the lives lost, uh, for the, from the officer standpoint.
• 4:14
  So we had, uh, one, one officer that I would say is a direct correlation, uh, to it.
• 4:19
  You know, what I'll say is, so yeah, Brian Sicknick, Brian Sicknick that
• 4:22
  evening, uh, and people, people think he, he, he, he died the next day.
• 4:26
  He did die the next day, but he collapsed that day, collapsed
• 4:28
  that evening, uh, after we'd gotten control of the Capitol.
• 4:32
  Uh, 8 p. m. The Senate went into, uh, session.
• 4:34
  9 p. m.
• 4:35
  The, uh, House goes into session.
• 4:36
  Shortly after the House goes into session, Brian Sicknick's walking with a group of, uh, officers, including
• 4:42
  a Virginia State Police officer by the name of Chris, uh, Serlac.
• 4:45
  Uh, he happens to be a tactical medic.
• 4:48
  Uh, they're walking to get a bite to eat, um, and he drops to the ground.
• 4:51
  Um, uh, Trooper Serlac is immediately rendering first aid.
• 4:56
  They can't get, uh, he's not able to be, he doesn't recover at all.
• 5:00
  He's transported, uh, and ends up dying the very, the very next day.
• 5:03
  Um, a lot of people have pointed the fact, well, medical examiner said it was natural causes.
• 5:08
  He died of a stroke, natural causes.
• 5:10
  Um, the medical examiner did make a statement in a press conference where he said the, um,
• 5:15
  Incident, the actions of that day contributed to, uh, to his illness.
• 5:21
  Anybody that doesn't think that's a, uh, a correlation, um, you know, anyway, um, so I, I think that right there
• 5:27
  is your, you know, that's immediately the direct, you know, one person that, um, died as a result, uh, you had a
• 5:33
  suicide two days later, I'm sorry, on the 9th, uh, Howard Levengood, who, uh, actually was a, was a friend of mine.
• 5:39
  He was a Capitol police officer.
• 5:41
  Uh, we worked at the same, worked at the same gym, uh, in, uh, in Virginia.
• 5:45
  And, um, yeah.
• 5:46
  We'd share stories.
• 5:47
  He'd like to work on cars and race cars.
• 5:49
  I love to, uh, work on cars and growing up.
• 5:52
  Uh, I raced once a quarter mile.
• 5:56
  He raced rally, but we'd share some stories and it was tragic to hear his loss.
• 6:01
  Um, anytime, you know, an officer deals with, um, You know, whatever they're, you know, whatever
• 6:08
  they're, they're having to deal with and, uh, takes our own life.
• 6:10
  That's, that is really, really tough and is a tragic situation.
• 6:14
  Uh, I think it was January 16th, you had Jeff Smith with the D.C. Police,
• 6:18
  uh, who also responded, uh, to January 6th that, um, ended up taking his life.
• 6:22
  And ultimately, a couple of months later, you had two other, uh, D.C. Police officers that took their life.
• 6:26
  So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's tragic.
• 6:29
  Um, I know when And I talk about it in the book in, in, in detail, um, because when my watch commander came
• 6:38
  in and told me, uh, about Howard Leamingood's, um, death, I got really, really concerned, uh, because I know
• 6:45
  my officers, a lot of them were going through a lot of stuff after that,
• 6:48
  and the last thing I wanted to see was anybody else, um, do any self harm.
• 6:52
  Uh, so I was very, very worried about that and knew this had to be dealt with in a very effective, uh, and
• 6:56
  immediate manner, uh, and that in itself is a whole, is a whole other story.
• 7:01
  Bill Erfurth: You know, it really, you and I cop to cop, you know, what really pisses me off about that whole
• 7:06
  situation is that their deaths have been so politicized now for political gain.
• 7:14
  You know, just the other day on January 6th, Merrick Garland made a statement and in his statement on Twitter says
• 7:23
  that five officers were killed in the line of duty on January 6th.
• 7:28
  And there was a Congresswoman that came out and said the same thing.
• 7:32
  And that's just not factually true.
• 7:35
  I mean, it's horrendous what happened.
• 7:38
  It's horrendous that the officers are.
• 7:41
  No longer alive.
• 7:43
  I mean, we've, you, you, you've lost friends in the line of duty.
• 7:47
  I've lost friends in the line of duty.
• 7:49
  It's, it's tragic.
• 7:51
  Uh, but I think it's even more tragic that certain political people
• 7:56
  for political gain are going to use the deaths of those officers.
• 8:02
  To their benefit,
• 8:04
  Steven Sund: I agree.
• 8:04
  That's I mean, that's the lowest of low when they, when they, when they started doing that.
• 8:08
  Um, and, and you saw that repeatedly a matter of fact, that's partially the, uh, the reason for the, the
• 8:15
  title of the book courage under fire is, you know, the, uh, the backlash and some of my officers that came,
• 8:21
  especially from members of Congress, um, and, you know, uh, Craig, you had talked about some of the people that
• 8:27
  were some of the biggest supporters of, you know, defund the police.
• 8:30
  You know, I talked about it in the book.
• 8:32
  One of those.
• 8:32
  Yeah.
• 8:32
  You know, big, um, uh, big supporters, uh, was, was screaming at me the evening of January 6,
• 8:42
  wondering why I hadn't ordered my officers to open fire on the crowd.
• 8:46
  Think about that.
• 8:47
  Think about if any chief in the United States of America came out and give a blanket order for your
• 8:52
  officers to open fire on a group of protesters, uh, rioting protesters, however you want to describe it.
• 8:59
  Um, that would have been a terribly, that would have been a dark day for America.
• 9:04
  Bill Erfurth: So, Chief, are you, uh, Chief, are you referring to, uh, crazy Maxine Waters there?
• 9:09
  Steven Sund: No, that would have been, uh, uh, Tim Ryan.
• 9:12
  Tim Ryan.
• 9:13
  Um, and I was explaining to him, I said, that's not that, you know,
• 9:15
  we, we rely on our training, our policies, Supreme Court decisions.
• 9:20
  That's not how we work.
• 9:21
  And he told me I should have changed the policy in the middle of the fight.
• 9:23
  Dennis Collins: Good.
• 9:24
  Bill Erfurth: You know, and the reason I brought up, the reason
• 9:26
  I brought up Maxine Waters is because you have, uh, a couple of.
• 9:32
  Excerpts in your book about that whole situation, how she called
• 9:36
  you in advance to January 6 to basically tell you how to do your job.
• 9:42
  Then in the middle of the whole situation, she's calling you again, trying to tell you how to do your job.
• 9:48
  Nothing to me is more unbelievable than a politician trying to tell
• 9:52
  somebody how to do their job that's never walked in your shoes.
• 9:56
  But you know, the irony of that whole thing, and I'll let you expound on it a little bit.
• 9:59
  But the irony about Maxine Waters is we You know, if we go down memory lane with her, you know,
• 10:05
  back in, uh, June of 2018, she's out encouraging supporters of the Trump
• 10:14
  administration to go out and harass and intimidate and get in their face.
• 10:21
  Anyone that's part of the Trump administration.
• 10:24
  Then in April of 2021, with the incidents that occurred in Minneapolis,
• 10:32
  Minnesota, she's quoted as saying, we got to stay on the street.
• 10:36
  We got to get more active.
• 10:38
  We got to get more confrontational.
• 10:40
  We got to make sure they know we mean business.
• 10:44
  And then she goes on to encourage people to violate the curfew.
• 10:49
  So here's a Congresswoman.
• 10:52
  With that kind of background, and then she calls you to lecture you about how you should do your job.
• 11:00
  You want to talk about that a bit?
• 11:02
  Steven Sund: Yeah, I'm in the, I'm in the command center.
• 11:04
  I'm trying to remember the exact time, um, that she called probably two, three o'clock is, is probably
• 11:11
  right in the height of when I'm trying to get into resources, trying to get people, uh, deployed out there.
• 11:16
  And was screaming at me about what are you going to do?
• 11:19
  What are you going to do to get this under control?
• 11:20
  What are you going to do?
• 11:21
  You know, it's a, you know, um, and, um, went and I said, ma'am, trying to bring in whatever resources I
• 11:27
  can, trying to get, you know, we say reestablish perimeter, you know, please, I need to get back to my job.
• 11:31
  And she was screaming at me.
• 11:32
  She wouldn't stop.
• 11:33
  And finally, I just looked at the phone and said, This conversation is going nowhere.
• 11:36
  Just hit the end call button.
• 11:38
  And I remember turning over and, um, because my general counsel was
• 11:41
  sitting, I had, uh, chief Pittman and chief Gallagher sitting in my left.
• 11:44
  And then my general counsel, I remember looking over my general counsel go, Hey, you may just want to make a note.
• 11:49
  I just hung up on, uh, Nancy water, Maxine waters.
• 11:52
  I'm sure I'm gonna hear about it.
• 11:54
  Um, you know, it's one of those things to look back on.
• 11:56
  I would have done it again today.
• 11:58
  I didn't have time to deal with that.
• 12:00
  Uh, and it was again, it was just taking critical time away from me getting resources from officers.
• 12:05
  Craig Floyd: We're getting ready to wrap things up.
• 12:08
  We could go on for hours.
• 12:10
  That book was, as I said, riveting, packed full of stories and information
• 12:14
  that the public did not have about nine or excuse me, about January six.
• 12:21
  But let me just ask you this maybe as a closing thought, um, this obviously, you got the report from Congress in
• 12:29
  December, a nice Christmas present, if you will, uh, exonerating you from any of the blame and really praising you for
• 12:36
  having done a good job and shouldered so much of the burden of January 6.
• 12:40
  Unfairly.
• 12:41
  Um, but clearly this has had a deep impact, not only on January six and
• 12:48
  soon after, but a lasting impact really on you and your family.
• 12:52
  Talk to me a little bit about how you've had to be able to deal with all that.
• 12:57
  Steven Sund: Um, it it was again.
• 13:00
  Yeah, it's still it still is is is is tough.
• 13:04
  I still I love being a police officer.
• 13:06
  I loved working with the men and women up there.
• 13:09
  Like I said, I still talk to capital police DC police on a daily basis.
• 13:15
  Um, and I really did did miss it.
• 13:17
  I think.
• 13:18
  And my kids, they've, that's all they've known them, you know, their entire lives is, hey, dad, dad was a cop.
• 13:23
  There's always something going on.
• 13:25
  You know, you took the good with the bad, a few missed birthdays, things like that.
• 13:28
  But they really liked it.
• 13:29
  The big takeaway now is, you know, I had a couple of kids that were really looking forward to maybe
• 13:36
  following my dad and my footsteps and their dad's footsteps.
• 13:39
  Specifically, I had, uh, my middle daughter was always talking about, dad, I want to be a doc with a Glock.
• 13:45
  Wanted to go in and get, um, Her medical degree, but also work with
• 13:51
  tactical units and kind of one of those tactical response capabilities.
• 13:55
  Um, not now, not now.
• 13:57
  And they see what goes on with law enforcement and they see how things are politicized when they see how
• 14:02
  people are scrutinized again, like you said, for doing their jail be, um.
• 14:07
  Far the same.
• 14:08
  Nope.
• 14:08
  Don't want any part of it.
• 14:10
  It was, uh, it was tough.
• 14:12
  My son was doing online classes when the, uh, right at the capital
• 14:16
  began and isn't his teacher was the one that told him about it.
• 14:20
  Uh, and and just to hear the stories of what they went through, um, that day.
• 14:25
  And then when I finally came home late.
• 14:27
  Late Thursday night.
• 14:29
  I came home to a security detail from Fairfax County and Capitol Police on the house And had to had to had
• 14:35
  to deal with that but needless to say Good now that the December 17th report helps out it helps out a lot
• 14:42
  But you know, there are still times I miss I miss the the camaraderie.
• 14:45
  I miss the mission.
• 14:46
  I don't miss the minutia
• 14:48
  Craig Floyd: We salute you, sir. And again, I just want to conclude by telling people you've heard some
• 14:53
  of the highlights from this book, Courage Under Fire, but there's so
• 14:58
  much more that we couldn't get into today because of time limitations.
• 15:02
  But go out and get this book, Courage Under Fire, if you really want to know the truth about
• 15:06
  January 6th, the prep for it, the day of, and then the aftermath.
• 15:12
  Uh, Steve can't thank you enough for joining us today and, uh, look forward to continuing to work with
• 15:17
  you, my friend, you are a hero behind the badge and we're honored that you were with us here today.
• 15:24
  Steven Sund: Thank you very much for the opportunity.
• 15:25
  And I was just going to say thank you for all you do, uh, supporting the men and women of law enforcement.
• 15:31
  Bill, thank you for your, uh, your support and your working with Craig and Dennis.
• 15:34
  Um, honored, honored to be here and thank you very much for your time today.
• 15:38
  Bill Erfurth: Thank you, Steve.
• 15:39
  We salute you.
• 15:40
  Terrific.
• 15:40
  Yes.
• 15:41
  Thank you.
• 15:41
  Terrific.
• 15:42
  Dennis Collins: You've been listening to the third and final
• 15:45
  conversation with former U. S. Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund.
• 15:50
  If by chance you missed the first two, you can still find them at Heroes Behind the Badge podcast.
• 15:58
  Uh, Chief Sund also wrote a book.
• 16:00
  Courage Under Fire, he goes into great detail and documents his account
• 16:07
  of the events surrounding January 6th at the United States Capitol.
• 16:12
  We thank you for joining us for this important conversation.
• 16:15
  We aim to bring you many, many more newsmaker, more
• 16:19
  interesting conversations on Heroes Behind the Badge.
• 16:24
  To learn more about how you can support law enforcement, go to BehindBadge.org.
• 16:30
  Join hundreds of thousands of Americans already showing their support for law enforcement.
• 16:37
  That's BehindBadge.org.
• 16:41
  I'm Dennis Collins, and for my colleagues, Bill Erfurth.
• 16:45
  And Craig Floyd, goodbye for now.
• 16:48
  We'll see you for the next episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.
• 16:52
  Real stories about real cops, and we expose the fake news about the police, and we give you the real truth.