Latest / The Real News Podcast / Trump's Plan to Swing Brazil's Election for Bolsonaro

Transcript

Trump's Plan to Swing Brazil's Election for Bolsonaro · The Real News Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Hi, folks. This is your host, Michael Fox. Before I
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: get started, I wanted to let you know that I
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: have big news. First, this season of Under the Shadow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: has been nominated for three podcast Signal Awards. It's really exciting,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: and you can help us by heading over to SignalAward.com
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and voting for Under the Shadow. I'll add direct links
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: in the show notes that will take you straight there. Second,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: last week, I launched a new website called Pan-American Dispatch.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: It's a project of The Real News. We're translating daily
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: articles from Portuguese and Spanish into English for a U.S.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Audience.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Over the next two months, we'll be exclusively focused on
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: covering the Brazilian elections and Trump's attempts to sway them.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: That is what this entire episode is about. And if
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: you want to get all of the news about what's
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: happening in real time, please consider subscribing to our sub stack.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: You can find us at PanAmericanDispatch.org. We're also on X,
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Blue Sky, Instagram, and TikTok. Our handle is at PADispatch. Okay,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: that's it. I hope you enjoy the show. On May 26, 2026,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a 45-year-old Brazilian senator named Flavio Bolsonaro met with U.S.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: President Donald Trump at the White House.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Flavio.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Is the presidential candidate for the far-right in Brazil in
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: the upcoming elections in October. This is what he had
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: to say at the annual Conservative Political Action Committee meeting
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: in Texas earlier this year.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: And let me look you in the eyes and tell you,
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: we will win.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Flavio is the son and political heir of the former
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: far-right president Jair Bolsonaro. a close ally of the U.S.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: President.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: In the meeting at the Oval Office in May, Flavio
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Bolsonaro reportedly asked Trump to designate the Brazilian drug gangs
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Primeiro Comando da Capital and the Comando Vermelho as foreign
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: terrorist organizations. After the meeting, Flavio spoke to the press.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: He said, I asked President Trump emphatically to designate as
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: soon as possible the PCC and the Comando Vermelho as
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: foreign terrorist organizations. This might not seem like such a
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: big deal, but it is. The United States has sometimes
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: used that very designation as the pretext to invade or
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: interfere in foreign countries. The U.S. placed the Venezuelan gangs
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Tren de Aragua and Cartel de los Soles on the
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: list back in 2025. And fighting those alleged terrorists was
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: one of the excuses the United States used for invading
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Venezuela and kidnapping President Nicolas Maduro on January 3rd of
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: this year. In other words, this designation carries weight. Trump
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: agreed to Flavio's request. Just three days after meeting with
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Flavio Bolsonaro, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio announced that
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: those two Brazilian gangs would be added to the list
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: of foreign terrorist organizations. Flavio responded in a letter to Rubio,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: thanking him for the classification and offering to place his
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: transition team at the disposal of the White House if
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: he's elected. For months, the United States has been escalating
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: the pressure on Brazil in the lead-up to the presidential elections,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: with the goal of helping to lift Flavio Bolsonaro to
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: the top office. Just a few weeks after the State
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Department put the Brazilian gangs on the terrorist list, Trump
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: shared an article on Truth Social that said Brazil was
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: his next big challenge. Less than a month later, in July,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Trump imposed new 25% tariffs on Brazilian goods. In August,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Trump revoked the U.S. visa of the Brazilian ambassador. It
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: was an apparent tit-for-tat after Brazil denied visas to two U.S.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: State Department officials who planned to travel to Brazil to
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: meet with former President Jair Bolsonaro. I could go on.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: The point here, as many people have pointed out, is
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: that there isn't just one thing that Trump is doing
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: to try and sway the vote in favor of Bolsonaro.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: It's a whole combination of moves. like a jigsaw puzzle
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: with many pieces, taken alone, and it's just a random
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: assortment of colors and shapes. But when you start to
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: put the pieces in place, a picture begins to emerge. See,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Trump allies have won big elections across Latin America. In
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: recent years, right-wing candidates have taken back or held on
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: to power in Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Ecuador, Honduras, Bolivia, and Peru.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: And they've done so with the help of U.S. President
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, who's thrown his weight around to boost right-wing candidates.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: And also with the support of bot farms and shady
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: electoral campaign practices linked to Washington and Mar-a-Lago, as we
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: looked at in the last episode.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: But on this historic day, we come together to announce
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: a brand new military coalition.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: To eradicate the criminal cartels plaguing our region. Many of
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: those countries have now joined forces in Trump's shield of
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: the America's alliance. But there are a few holdouts, and
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Brazil is one of the most important.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: The upcoming election in Brazil is really going to be
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: extremely consequential for the entire region.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Alexander Main is the director of international policy at the
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Center for Economic and Policy Research.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Brazil is the country with the largest economy, biggest population
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: in Latin America. And it's also one of the few
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: countries that is still holding out against U.S. pressure, pressure
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: to align with the Trump administration's agenda in the region.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: The first round election is on October 4th, in just
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: a couple of days, and the runoff will take place
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: three weeks later, on October 25th. Bolsonaro is facing off
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: against the longtime Workers' Party icon, Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: He's the current president, and he's running for re-election. I
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: have been covering the campaigns here in Brazil in recent weeks.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: I've attended rallies for both Lula and Bolsonaro. Today, I'm
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: going to walk you through what's at stake, and most importantly,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: how Trump is exerting underhanded pressure on the country ahead
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: of the vote. As a leaked document showed last week,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: the Brazilian intelligence agency has raised the risk of external
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: influence and interference by the United States in Brazil's 2026
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: elections to a, quote, critical level. According to the report,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: There is a trend of escalating pressure on Brazil and a, quote,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: selective intensification and reconfiguration of the pressure exerted by the
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: United States. It's a textbook example of foreign election interference today,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: a multifaceted jigsaw. People are concerned, but they're also standing up.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: And that's what makes this episode so interesting. It's happening
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: in real time. You have Trump attempting to sway the vote.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: and you also have people pushing back. Like Lula's recent
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: speech at the United Nations, where he told the U.S.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: president that Brazil will not be the backyard of any country.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Or this woman, a small farmer who I spoke with
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: at a Lula rally in southern Brazil. We're not afraid
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of Trump, she said. We know what he wants to do,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: and we're not going to let him. We are the resistance.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: We're not afraid of him, just like Lula isn't afraid.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Lula showed us that we are not less than any country,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: she said. That and so much more in a minute.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: This is Under the Shadow, an investigative narrative podcast series
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: that looks at the role of the United States abroad
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: in the past and the very present. This podcast is
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: a co-production in partnership with The Real News and NACLA.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, Michael Fox, longtime radio reporter, editor, journalist,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: the producer and host of the podcasts Brazil on Fire,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Stories of Resistance, and my new series, The Battle for
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Free Speech. I've spent the better part of the last
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: 20 years in Latin America. I've seen firsthand the role
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: of the U.S. government abroad, and most often, sadly, it
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: is not for the better. Invasions, coups, sanctions, support for
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: authoritarian regimes. Politically and economically, the United States has cast
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: a long shadow over Latin America for the past 200 years.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: It still does. This is season two of Under the Shadow,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Trump's Attack. Episode 15, election meddling in Brazil.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: Before we dive into the allegations of election interference, let
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: me set the scene. To do that, I want to
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: take you back to a month and a half ago,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: to the launch of the campaigns here in Brazil. I
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: was in Sao Paulo covering Lula's kickoff. Some of this
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: section of the episode is based off of reporting I
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: did at the time. for The World and The Real News.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: It's August 16th, 2026. Tens of thousands of supporters of
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva are packed into May
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: 1st Stadium in Sao Paulo. Among them is Cida Maia,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: She's the secretary of women's public policies in the nearby
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: municipality of Mauá. This is living history, she says. I'm
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: participating in a historic moment. It's a great feeling and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: we're going to elect Lula. Next to her, her husband
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Valmir Maia holds back tears. It's emotional, he says. Lula's
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: campaign shows this stadium to kick off his run for
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: a fourth and final term as president. This is where
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Lula got his start. In 1979, Lula was a young
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: leader at the ABC Metal Workers Union. He led an
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: iconic strike and rally at this same stadium. The workers won,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: and it marked the beginning of the end of the
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: country's military dictatorship. Valmir Maia was there then, and he's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: here now. We wanted what we got, he says, to
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: transform Brazil into a democratic country. That was our struggle,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and Lula was the expression of this. Inside the stadium,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: President Lula strode onto a long stage wearing a Panama
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: hat and a white shirt. From the bleachers, he seemed
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: to float above the sea of supporters in red, the
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: color of Lula's Workers' Party. Lula's top campaign promise has
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: always been about battling hunger. Over the years, he's lifted
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: millions from poverty, increased access to education, health and infrastructure,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: in particular in impoverished northeastern Brazil.
• 12:04
  Speaker 5: This is the beginning of a new world. This is
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: the beginning of a new world. Because the future means that.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: We have to change.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Lula told the crowd that there was much work left
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: to be done, that they had to think of the future.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: He said they had to invest even more in education,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: that he wanted to continue to develop jobs and industry
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: for Brazil. 300 miles to the east, Lula's challenger Flavio
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Bolsonaro launched his campaign on Copacabana Beach in his hometown
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: of Rio de Janeiro. Come with me and rescue our nation,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: he said. God above everyone, Brazil above all. Flavio Bolsonaro
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: has attacked the left and promised to fight crime and insecurity,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: cut bureaucracy, promote private business and privatizations, and develop close
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: ties with the United States. Much of his rhetoric and
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: that of his supporters is wrapped in a religious language
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: of good versus evil.
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: You are the son.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: You are the son of hope, said a pastor at
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: his campaign launch. You are the firstborn. You received the
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: legacy of representing your father. And now, for everything that
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: is sacred on the face of the earth, honor your father.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: The savior trope goes over well with his evangelical supporters,
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: an important base for Bolsonaro and other far-right politicians in Brazil,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: as we looked at in depth in my 2022 podcast,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Brazil on Fire. Gleison Araújo is a youth pastor at
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: an evangelical church in a working-class neighborhood of Sao Paulo.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: He joined others on the streets in mid-August to promote
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Bolsonaro and other far-right candidates running for local office. He said,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I believe that Flávio Bolsonaro is the only viable candidate
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: who can beat Lula and the Workers' Party. I'm a
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Christian here, he told me. I behave as a Christian,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: but I'm also a political activist, here on the streets
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: to defend my beliefs, he said. Flavio Bolsonaro also has
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: powerful support in high places. In particular, as we heard earlier,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: from Donald Trump. If you remember, the U.S. president is
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: a longtime ally of Flavio's father, Jair Bolsonaro. Jair is
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: currently on house arrest. He was first barred from running
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: for office for spreading lies about the country's electoral system
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Last year, the Supreme Court convicted him of plotting a
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: coup to return to power. Before his rise as the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: leader of Brazil's far right, Jair Bolsonaro was a backbench
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: congressman for decades. Outlandish, but mostly obscure. And then he
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: ran for president.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Bolsonaro fashioned himself after Trump.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: In fact, in Jair Bolsonaro's electoral campaign in 2018, international
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: media often called him the Trump of the tropics. He
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: and Trump met a number of times while they were
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: both president.
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: And I think we can say that Brazil and the
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: United States are as close or closer as they've ever been.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Last year, Trump imposed 50% tariffs on Brazil in part
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: because of the country's criminal trial against the former president.
• 15:33
  Speaker 6: They're treating President Bolsonaro very unfairly.
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: He's a good man.
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: You know, I know him well.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: I negotiated with him. And let me be honest, there
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: are many supporters of Bolsonaro who look up to Trump
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and want him to use his leverage to help their candidate,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Jair Bolsonaro's son and protege, Flavio Bolsonaro. On September 7th,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Members of the far right in Brazil hit the streets
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: across the country to rally for Flavio. I covered the
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: march in the southern Brazilian city of Florianópolis. There, numerous
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: people told me how much they admired Trump and how
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: grateful they were for his support. Adalberto Luiz de Santos
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: is marching with a blue hat with the insignia of
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: the United States. He and his wife are draped in
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Brazilian flags. We're hoping for support from the United States,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: he said. I believe Trump can help us. All Brazilians
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: need the support of someone from abroad. Trump is really important,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: another man in the march told me. The external pressure
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: is very important. A woman in the march, carrying a
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: flag and a yellow hat, told me, just the simple
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: fact that Trump is in power and acts democratically in
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: favor of freedom makes all of the difference for our people.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: We don't want Brazil to turn into another Venezuela, she said.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I've heard that narrative countless times in Brazil and during
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: elections in countries across Latin America for years. It's the
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: ever-present boogeyman of so-called communist Venezuela. But fear of the
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Venezuelan fate took on an even more serious dimension after
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the U.S. invasion of Caracas earlier this year. The sentiments
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: of so many Bolsonaro supporters are a sign of just
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: how polarized the political debate is and how much the
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: far-right in Brazil looks up to the U.S. president. Two
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: weeks later... I covered another rally in the same city,
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: this one in support of President Lula.
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: Lula, guerrero!
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Lula, guerrero!
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: People had a lot to say about Trump and his
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: efforts to influence their presidential decisions. I asked them, are
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: you afraid of what Trump and the United States could
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: do during this election to try and support Bolsonaro? Yes,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I'm really afraid of that, said one man carrying a
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Lula flag. They want to take away our sovereignty. They
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: want to invade our lands. They want to take what
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: is ours and let Brazil be a colony of another country.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Of course we're afraid, said someone else. But we believe
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: that Lula is well ahead in the election and we
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: won't allow Trump to destroy the elections. What do you
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: think about Trump and are you concerned that Trump might
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: try and do something with the elections here in Brazil?
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: We've seen a lot of his work here in Latin
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: America that we are very scared. Venezuela, Peru, Colombia, Argentina.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: So we are very scared because Latin America is being
• 18:54
  Speaker 4: contaminated by him and his work. So it's very scary
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: and we don't want him in here or anything with him.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: People have a lot to be concerned about. When I
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: was in Sao Paulo in August, I sat down with
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Igor Fusser at a cafe near Paulista Avenue. We've known
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: each other for years. He's a professor of foreign relations
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: at Brazil's ABC Federal University. I asked him how he
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: sees the U.S. actions against Brazil at this moment. He said,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: This is not just about the United States trying to
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: remove the government of a left-wing party, the Workers' Party,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: or a left-wing leader, which is Lula. It's about subjecting
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Brazil to the policies of the United States, and Brazil
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: being the largest country in Latin America. America, is precisely
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the biggest obstacle to the American project of global dominance
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: of the Western Hemisphere, he said. Remember, over the last year,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: as we've looked at throughout this podcast, Trump, has pushed
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the United States into a new era of dominance over
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Latin America, the likes of which the region has not
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: seen in decades. Boat strikes in the Caribbean, the U.S.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: invasion of Venezuela, and the kidnapping of President Nicolas Maduro,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the oil blockade on Cuba, and Trump throwing his weight
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: around and meddling in elections across Latin America. It's all
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: justified by a renewed Monroe Doctrine. Here's Secretary of War
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth underlining that point.
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: President Trump has established the Trump corollary of the Monroe Doctrine,
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: the Donrow Doctrine. And the War Department is implementing it
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: as fast as we can.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Brazil is the latest battleground. It's playing out in the
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: open and behind the scenes. It's early August. the Brazilian
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Association of Investigative Journalism is meeting in Sao Paulo. At
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the meeting, circulating in the crowd are staff from the U.S.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Consulate in Sao Paulo. Their mission? To woo Brazilian journalists
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: into conversations about the country's electoral process and the state of, quote,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: freedom of expression in the country. This was reported by
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: several independent journalists at the conference and then published by
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: independent journalist Leandro de Mori the former executive editor of
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: The Intercept Brazil. According to DiMorti, three journalists at the
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: event confirmed the actions of the consular officials. Two journalists
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: said they were offered assistance with U.S. visas if they
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: needed them, even though the meetings with the officials about
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: the country's elections were to be held in Sao Paulo.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Washington has leaned on two key narratives to demonize Brazil
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: in recent years. One, that freedom of expression is under
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: attack in Brazil because of its attempts to rein in
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: social media disinformation. And two, that the country's electoral system
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: is faulty and prone to errors. Both of those claims
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: are false. Brazil has long held certified free and fair elections,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and freedom of speech is alive and well, although Brazil
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: embraces a more inclusive, harmonious definition of how the freedom
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: of speech fits into the country's other laws— Episode 12
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: of this series goes deeper into those claims and their fallout.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: DiMorti's reporting about the recent journalism forum brings up more
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: questions than answers. What were the consular officials trying to achieve?
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Did some journalists take the bait? If so, how will
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: this be weaponized? We don't have answers, but it's another
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: piece of the scrambled jigsaw puzzle. Here's another. And it's
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: just one example of how the meddling campaign has been building.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: In mid-September, less than two weeks ago, Flavio Bolsonaro's brother
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Eduardo met with President Donald Trump at the White House.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: As we looked at in the last episode, Eduardo is
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: a former congressional representative who now lives in the United States.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: The Brazilian Supreme Court sentenced him earlier this year to
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: four years in prison for his actions in the U.S.,
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: lobbying the Trump administration to intimidate the Brazilian judiciary amid
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: the trial against his father. According to reports, Eduardo traveled
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: to Washington to ask Trump to impose sanctions on members
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: of the Lula government and the Supreme Court, including Justice
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Alexandre Moraes. If you've been following Brazil or my reporting,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: you might remember that Moraes was the justice that led
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the trials against the dissemination of fake news in the country.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and also against Jair Bolsonaro. Also developing this morning, the
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Trump administration placing sanctions on.
• 23:54
  Speaker 5: A Brazilian Supreme Court justice over concerns of human rights
• 23:57
  Speaker 5: violations and politicized prosecutions.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Last year, the U.S. sanctioned Mordeis for supposedly carrying out, quote,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: human rights abuse, including arbitrary detention. Those sanctions were lifted
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: four months later, but they were a thinly veiled retaliation
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: for the trial against Bolsonaro and also Mordeis' fight with
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: ex-owner Elon Musk. which we looked at in depth in
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: episode 12. There is no question the battle over Brazil
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: right now is also taking place online. And Silicon Valley
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: is playing its part.
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: On Wednesday, September 23rd, Meta, The parent company of Facebook
• 24:45
  Speaker 5: and Instagram took down President Lula's Facebook page and blocked
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: his campaign from running political ads.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: The platform gave no justification for the move. Lula's Workers'
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Party and his electoral coalition demanded answers. Lula's campaign asked
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: for the immediate return of the account. The campaign's lawyers
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: told the platform that the restriction, quote, poses a serious
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: risk to the candidate's level playing field in the elections.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: The head of the Workers' Party National Communications team, Evan Valadares,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: said they hadn't ruled out taking the case to the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Superior Electoral Court. He wrote on X, Brazil's electoral contest,
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: its campaigns, and its vote cannot be left to the
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: mercy of the political preferences of the big tech companies
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: whose supposed programming errors only hit and harm one campaign
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: and one candidate. One candidate, meaning Lula. By the next morning,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: the page was back up. But Lula's electoral coalition said
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Mehta's actions harmed the presidential campaign. Remember that Mehta was
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: founded and is run by Mark Zuckerberg. He's a close
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: ally of President Donald Trump. Thank you very, very much.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: In fact, he was at Trump's inauguration for his second term,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: alongside the heads of Apple, Google, Amazon, and of course
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Tesla and ex-CEO Elon Musk. I want to talk about
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: something important today because it's time to get back to
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: our roots around free expression on Facebook and Instagram. Zuckerberg
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: got rid of fact-checking at Meta in early 2025, just
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: before Trump came into power last year. And that's important
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: because there are now fewer constraints on the spread of
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: fake news or misinformation on the platform. In late August,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Amnesty International tested this lack of guardrails in Brazil. it
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: sent 15 different AI-generated election-related political disinformation ads to Facebook
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to see if the platform could discern between truth and falsehood.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Meta failed to block most of them. A similar test
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: run by the eco-movement in Brazil in mid-September showed that
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: nearly 90% of the disinformation ads it attempted to run
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: on Meta were approved, including, quote, AI ads depicting execution-style
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: threats against lawmakers, and calling for a stop-the-steal-style coup. And
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I want to say one more thing about the role
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: of Silicon Valley's big tech platforms. They are paying attention
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: to what's happening in Brazil. Here's just one example. Last year,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: lawmakers in a congressional committee in Brasilia were discussing a
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: bill on AI regulation. According to the fact-checking agency Aos Fatos,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Big tech lobbyists visited committee members more than 80 times
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: over a five-month period. The tech company that met with
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: members in Brasilia the most was Mera, which made more
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: than a third of those visits. There's another layer to
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: all of this, another puzzle piece, if you like. In
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: the last episode of this podcast, I took an in-depth
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: look at the work of the Argentine political strategist Fernando Cerimedo.
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: 2025 was a year.
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: Very complicated for the consultants.
• 28:04
  Speaker 5: But it went very well.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Remember, Cedri Medell has led right-wing digital campaigns across Latin America.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: And he did so with the help of Washington and
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Trump's former campaign manager and digital strategist, Brad Parscale. This
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: is what he had to say earlier this year in
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Mar-a-Lago when he was presented an award for Best Hispanic
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Political Consultant of the Year.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: I want to say something in English.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Brad Parscale.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: For believing in me.
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: All the time and giving me your technology, and Team
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: Don for the fight in Latin America against socialism.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Brad.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: Cerimedo is now in prison on charges that he tried
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: to kill his girlfriend. According to her, he hired the
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: hitmen to silence her. Cerimedo also faces charges of illicit
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: enrichment and other crimes. But his digital campaigning and the
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: bot farms that he's deployed in elections up and down
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: the hemisphere haven't necessarily gone away, nor have his deep
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: ties to the right in the region. Remember who presented
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that award to Cerimedo?
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: It was Eduardo.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: Bolsonaro, the brother of Flavio Bolsonaro. They reportedly have known
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: each other for more than 15 years. Now, just this week,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Washington sanctioned Bolivian Attorney General Roger Mariaca, who is prosecuting
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: the Cerimedo case. He defended his country's sovereignty and vowed
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to continue the investigation despite the apparent attempt to intimidate him.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I mention all this to say that just because Cerimedo
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: is now in jail, it doesn't mean that these types
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: of digital influence campaigns heavily fueled by an international far-right,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: aren't happening. As I mentioned last time, Cerimedo is just
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: one piece in a puzzle, a cog in a wheel,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: albeit one very important cog. But actions pushing disinformation online
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: are still happening. We just don't necessarily know from who
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: or where. Here's one example. About a week ago, the
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Brazilian journalistic outlet Agência Pública reported in conjunction with Aos
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Fatos that AI farms were fueling the far-right agenda in
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the lead-up to the elections. The bots had created 255
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: profiles and made over 1,000 posts. Agência Pública reported that
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the network had, quote, achieved 58 million views, expanding the
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: reach of posts supporting the Bolsonaro family and attacking the
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court. It's a strategy known as astroturfing, using artificial
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: engagement to give the impression of a real surge in
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: grassroots support. All of this happened over one month between
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: August and September. According to the investigation, one of the
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: main nodes of this AI campaign was linked to the
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Instagram account Leo Indio Bolsonaro. That is managed by Leonardo
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Rodriguez de Jesus. He is Flavio and Eduardo Bolsonaro's cousins.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: He was investigated by Brazilian officials for his role in
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: the 2023 attempted coup. A warrant for his arrest was
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: ordered in 2025. He fled the country. He is reportedly
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: now in Argentina. The point is this. These campaigns are happening.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: We often just don't hear about them until after the fact.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I've been voting since 1998. And I have never
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: seen such level of interference, of foreign interference in Brazilian elections.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Maria Marta Bruno is a journalist with Agência Pública, the
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: outlet I mentioned earlier. If you remember, I spoke with
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: her in the last episode as well about Cerimedo.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: It reminds me a lot of what I have read recently.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: in history books and what I have learned on the
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Brazilian dictatorship and the very clear role that the US
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: developed from 1964 to 1985 when the military dictatorship in
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: Brazil took place. There was never since the end of
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: the dictatorship such open intervention.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Maria says there have been a lot of headlines lately
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: mentioning diplomatic tension between Brazil and the United States. But
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: she says what we're seeing goes far beyond that.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: Because given the gravity and the timing of the recent facts,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I would say that it constitutes a clear interference in
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: our process.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: She highlights Trump's tariffs on Brazil, both last year and
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: this year, which she says are wrapped into defending former
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: President Jair Bolsonaro. She points to the numerous meetings between
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Flavio and Eduardo Bolsonaro with top officials in Washington over
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: the last year.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: The U.S.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Sanctions against Supreme Court Justice Alexandre Moraes and so much more.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: And she says there are two other big reasons why
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the United States is so interested in Brazil. The first
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: is China.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: The U.S. intentions to reduce China influence in Latin America.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: We all know that China is a key partner for
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: Brazil and for other countries in the region.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: The second is rare earth minerals, stuff like neodymium, dysprosium
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: or terbium. Yeah, I don't know what they look like either,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: but they're used in EV motors, green energy technologies, military equipment,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: and other industries. Brazil is home to somewhere between a
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: fifth and a quarter of the total rare earth reserves
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: in the world. It's second only to China. In April,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: a U.S. company bought up the Brazilian firm Serra Verde,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: which mines rare earth minerals in Brazil, after his meeting
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: with Trump in May. Flavio Bolsonaro promised to work with
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: the United States on mineral extraction. We are the only
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: real alternative to China for a free world, Flavio Bolsonaro said.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Under my government, there will be long-term strategic partnership with
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: the United States in this sector with protected investment and
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: shared reindustrialization between the two countries. Flavio also promised that
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: if he is elected, in his first month, Brazil would
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: join President Trump's Shield of the Americas regional coalition. Brazil
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: will join the Shield of the Americas together with the
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: United States, he said, and countries across the region, forming
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: a great hemispheric alliance against terrorism and organized and transnational crime.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: This is Brazil's place. It is the protagonist of the
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: security of the Americas side by side with free and
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: sovereign nations, he said.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: And we know that the U.S. is very interested in
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: what we have and the reserves that we have. So
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: it's very interesting. significant. It's very important. And we know
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: that the U.S. is following closely the development of the
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: presidential elections here because they will certainly determine what will
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: be the future of the diplomatic relations between U.S. and
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Brazil in the upcoming years.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: In the face of all of this, Brazilians are responding,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: none louder than President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva. The
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: assembly will now hear an address by His Excellency Luiz
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Inácio Lula da Silva, President of the Federative Republic of Brazil.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: The day is September 22, 2026, New York City. Brazilian
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva walks to the podium
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: at the United Nations to kick off the 81st General
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Assembly meeting. Without mentioning him, Lula speaks directly to U.S.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: President Donald Trump. Brazil does not fit into anyone's backyard,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: he says. Democracy is again in check. Lula denounces Trump
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: for attacking democracy, interfering in elections, and using military force
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: to acquire material resources across Latin America. He closes his
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: speech with a nod to the upcoming high-stakes elections in Brazil.
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: On October 4th, he says, millions of Brazilians go to
• 37:32
  Speaker 5: the polls to decide their future.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: They will not just elect the president of the republic,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: state governors and representatives of the legislative power. They will
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: decide between democracy and denialism, between if Brazil is going
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: to move toward a future of more opportunities or return
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: to a past of exclusion. He says Brazil will have
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: free and transparent elections as it always has, with broad
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: freedom of speech. He denounces the spread of disinformation online.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: In particular, coming from outside the country, which he says
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: is an attempt to, quote, disrupt the debate. We have
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: a modern and robust electoral system, he says. We have
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: a plural citizenship and a free press. We will not
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: allow the enemies of democracy, both internal and external, to
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: attack the popular will. Brazilian democracy belongs to Brazilians. Brazil
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: will continue to be a sovereign country No one, no
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: one will take us away from this path, he says.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: It's Lula's response to Trump and the world as the
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: country faces incredibly important elections. Elections that Trump and the
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: United States have been attempting to influence. Brazilians have been
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: vocal online and in the streets against Washington's pressure. And recently,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: they actually got some support from a group of lawmakers
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill. On September 24th, just last week, Senator
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders and 30 Democratic members of the U.S. House
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: of Representatives sent a letter to Secretary of State Marco Rubio.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: They accused the Trump administration of waging abuse. pressure campaign
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: against Brazil ahead of the first round vote. Illinois Congresswoman
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Delia Ramirez led the congressional effort. They write, We are
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: writing to express our grave concern regarding the administration's coordinated
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: effort to threaten our strategic alliance with Brazil and and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: undermine the Western Hemisphere's second-largest democracy ahead of its upcoming
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: presidential election in October 2026. Over the course of President
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Trump's second term, they write, we have seen U.S. officials
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: engage in a sustained, multifaceted campaign of interference and destabilization
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: in Brazil. They point to the shocking 50% tariffs Trump
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: levied on the country last year amid the country's trial
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: against Jair Bolsonaro. They also underscored Trump's appointment last year
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: of Darren Beattie as a senior advisor on Brazil issues
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: in the State Department. Beattie, a noted far-right extremist and
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: white supremacist, they write, came into this post with a
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: clear record of public statements signaling an overt ideological commitment
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: to undermining Brazil's democratic institutions. The congressional representative singled out
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: Trump's current tariffs, his meeting with Flavio Bolsonaro at the
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: White House, and his designation of the Brazilian drug gangs
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: as foreign terrorist organizations. They write, Given the Trump administration's
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: repeated military strikes in the region, justified in part by
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: alleged foreign terrorist organization threats to U.S. security, the designation
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: has also fueled fears of potential U.S. military intervention. They
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: recall comments from White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt last
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: year that threatened Brazil could potentially face the United States' quote,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: military might.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: U.S.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: Military action in Brazil isn't likely, but it's not out
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: of the question. Nothing is under Trump's Dunrow Doctrine. The
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: lawmakers highlight that Brazil is just the latest in a, quote,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: deeply troubling pattern of interference by the United States in
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: foreign elections, including in Argentina, Honduras and Colombia. Rather than
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: helping defend democracy, they write, the United States is acting
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: as an agent of interference and destabilization, using diplomatic, economic
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: and political pressure in ways that risk weakening the country's
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: democratic institutions and undermining confidence in Brazil's electoral process and
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: inflicting further damage on our relationship with a strategic U.S.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: ally and trading partner. They demand that Washington commit to
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: recognizing the certified election results. Here's the thing. The stakes
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: are high.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: Remember Igor Fusser?
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: He's the professor I met at the Sao Paulo café.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: He told me, It's clear that the United States is
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: doing everything and will do everything possible to prevent the
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: re-election of Lula in the next elections. And Igor told
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: me there was a reason for that. Because if Flávio
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Bolsonaro wins, he will bow to Trump and the United States.
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: Igor says Brazil will become a country under the tutelage
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: of the United States, a colony or almost a colony of.
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: The U.S., as already happened with Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, and
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: many others. And if Lula is victorious in these elections,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: we will live a very intense period of confrontation between
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the two countries, he says. And Igor has a really
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: interesting analysis here. He says the U.S. dominance over Latin
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: America imposed by Trump is analogous to the control of
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: the Soviet Union over the Eastern Bloc countries during the
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Cold War... under a Russian foreign policy imposed by Soviet
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: leader Leonid Brezhnev in 1968. He says Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, Bulgaria,
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: all of those countries were formerly independent nations with their
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: own government, their own laws, their own representation in the
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: United Nations. But these countries were not autonomous. They didn't
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: have sovereignty. Any movement that they made that clashed with
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: the interests of the Soviet Union was repressed. Some of
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: them were even invaded, he says. So we're living in
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Latin America, a Brezhnev doctrine, capitalist, imperialist, dictated by Donald Trump.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: That is why this election is so important. Brazil is
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: the outlier, the counterweight to the United States in the region,
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: and the U.S. is fighting hard to bring it to heel.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: We're going to see this all unfold not in a
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: couple of months or weeks, but in just a few days.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: The first round of the election is on October 4th.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Brazilians are voting for their president and vice president. They're
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: also voting for all of the country's state governors, all
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: 513 members of the Chamber of Deputies, two-thirds of senators,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: and more than 1,000 state assembly seats. Lula is ahead
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: in the race, but he appears shy of the 50%
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: needed to win outright. If no presidential candidate wins more
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: than half of the vote, it'll go to a second round. There,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: polls show the margin between Lula and Bolsonaro even tighter,
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: and it will undoubtedly be a tough campaign. The second round,
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: if it's needed, is on October 25th. That is all
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: for this episode of Under the Shadow. Things are going
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: to get intense in the coming days. Please consider following
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: our new website, Pan American Dispatch, and our social media
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: accounts for ongoing reporting on Brazil and these elections. Some
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: of the reporting in this episode was based off of
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: stories I produced recently for The World and The Real News.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Many thanks to those outlets for all that they do.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Let me remind you that if you're craving even more
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: backstory here, you can always go back and listen to
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: episode 12. of the second season of Under the Shadow
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: about Brazil's fight against fake news in the country and
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: the U.S. attempt to roll it back. And please also
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: consider checking out my 2022 podcast about Brazil under Bolsonaro.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: It's called Brazil on Fire. It's still totally relevant today.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: You can find that wherever you listen. As always, you
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: can find me at patreon.com forward slash MFOX. There you
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: can also support my work, become a monthly sustainer, or
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: sign up to stay abreast of all the latest on
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: this podcast and my other reporting across Latin America. You
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: can find a ton of content there exclusively also for
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: my supporters. If you're looking for more information, news, and
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: reporting on Trump's onslaught, both in communities within the United
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: States and abroad, please check out The Real News and NACLA.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Both of them are publishing daily, indispensable reporting. The theme
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: music is by my band Monte Perdido. You can find
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: us on Spotify or wherever you stream music. This closing
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: song playing right now is off our 2024 album Ofrenda.
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I hope you check it out. Under the Shadow is
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: a co-production of The Real News and NACLA. It's produced
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: in partnership with Global Exchange. This episode was written, researched,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: reported and produced by me, Michael Fox. The script was
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: edited by Heather Geis. Thanks for listening. See you next time.