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Katie Woolf spoke with Chief Minister Michael Gunner · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: As the Chief Minister is heading into that National Cabinet
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: meeting very shortly and joins me on the line right now,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: good morning to your Chief Minister, Katie now while talking
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  Speaker 1: a little bit earlier than what we usually do due
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  Speaker 1: due to the National Cabinet which I will ask you
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  Speaker 1: about very shortly. But first on the agenda today is
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  Speaker 1: the IKAC. Now. The Northern Territory Police Association came out
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  Speaker 1: on Friday and said they're disgusted by the grandstanding of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the IKAC Commissioner Ken Fleming during estimates last week. The
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: scathing criticism follows the KAC commissioner going into details about
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  Speaker 1: a whistleblower during the estimates process and comments around his
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  Speaker 1: ability to force a journalist to reveal his sources as
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  Speaker 1: we know. Sky News reported his office was being investigated
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  Speaker 1: over allegations it was awarded contracts. Well, it awarded contracts
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  Speaker 1: to a company owned by the boyfriend of a senior director.
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  Speaker 1: Chief Minister, do you agree that there needs to be
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  Speaker 1: an investigation into how these contracts within the IKAK are awarded.
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  Speaker 2: So Bruce McClintock, who is the independent investigator into the IKAK,
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  Speaker 2: is currently investigating that matter. I have spoken with Bruce
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  Speaker 2: McClintock as the independent inspector. He will be providing a
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  Speaker 2: report to me on a formal report upon the investigation.
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  Speaker 2: So that is currently happening, that there is an independent investigation.
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  Speaker 1: Will that formal report be made public?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll be table lating that in Parliament depending on
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  Speaker 2: when I obsolutely I receive it.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. Do you think that the Commissioner Ken Fleming's comments
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  Speaker 1: that the whistleblower in this instance was a disgruntled employee
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  Speaker 1: who was driven by jealousy were appropriate comments to make
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  Speaker 1: given his role and standing in the community.
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  Speaker 2: I think everybody should respect an independent investigation, particularly someone
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  Speaker 2: who is part of that investigation, and particularly someone who
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  Speaker 2: is in their own right and independent investigator. So I
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  Speaker 2: don't think they were wise comments. The comment upon a
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  Speaker 2: subject which is actively being investigated, and I've confirmed that
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  Speaker 2: with Bruce m klintock as the independent investigator into the ICACK,
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  Speaker 2: and that investigation is ongoing.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. The Police Association President Paul McHugh said on Friday
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  Speaker 1: that the whole concept of protection of witnesses who come
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  Speaker 1: forward with allegations of corrupt behavior is fundamental to the
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  Speaker 1: success of the IKAK Mister McHugh said, it seems when
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  Speaker 1: that whistleblower is complaining about the iy caack itself, they'll
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  Speaker 1: be threatened with exposure by the commissioner charged with protecting them.
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  Speaker 1: Do these comments demonstrate a double standard?
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  Speaker 2: We will soon see what the independent investigator determines at
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  Speaker 2: the end of his investigation.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm not asking about the actual investigation. What
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  Speaker 1: I'm asking about is the comments. Do these comments demonstrate
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  Speaker 1: a double standard?
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  Speaker 2: I believe the IQACK was wise in commenting upon an
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  Speaker 2: investigation that is occurring, and the investigation that's occurring obviously
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  Speaker 2: will have a report which will discuss everything, including the
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  Speaker 2: actions of the IKAC.
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  Speaker 1: Were the comments a contravention of the IKAC Act, Well.
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  Speaker 2: That's why we have an independent investigator make determinations.
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  Speaker 1: Like that, and so that independent investigator is obviously taking
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  Speaker 1: a close look into everything. I do note, though, that
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  Speaker 1: the KAC commissioner also said through the process that journalists
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  Speaker 1: are not protected by Section one hundred and twenty seven
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  Speaker 1: A of the Uniform Evidence Act because he is not
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  Speaker 1: a judicial entity. Would you support the KAC commissioner forcing
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  Speaker 1: a journalist to reveal their source?
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  Speaker 2: I believe journalists do a very important role holding people
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  Speaker 2: to account, myself, the KAC commissioner, others, and I believe
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  Speaker 2: they should have the ability to do their jobs. I
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  Speaker 2: also recognize the importance of making sure that we can
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  Speaker 2: track ruption wherever it occurs. I've asked the Greeg Shanahan,
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  Speaker 2: the former CEO of the Palmertorney Journal and Justice, who's
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  Speaker 2: doing a review into the IQAC at the moment, to
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  Speaker 2: include that as part of this review. I want to
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  Speaker 2: make sure we've got the powers, the Palace of Powers
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  Speaker 2: in the right spot so that the journalists can genuinely
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  Speaker 2: do their jobs. But also obviously, if there is corruption
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  Speaker 2: needs to be investigated, the IQAC can do that. I
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  Speaker 2: understand them be important to that, but journalists must be
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  Speaker 2: able to do their job.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it does sound like you're hedging your bets either way.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, do you think it's appropriate that a journalists
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  Speaker 1: could be forced to reveal their source?
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  Speaker 2: That? That's what I'm saying. The journalist should able to
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  Speaker 2: do their job. So I absolutely believe in the protection
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  Speaker 2: of journalists be able to do their job.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Now, today, the IQAQ Inspector Bruce McClintock, SC the
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  Speaker 1: man charged with conducting the investigation into how these contracts
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  Speaker 1: within the IQAQ are awarded, says that he's unable to
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  Speaker 1: take action against the Commissioner Ken Fleming for attacking a
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  Speaker 1: whistleblower during budget estimates as the comments were protected by
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  Speaker 1: parliamentary privilege. Now the Northern Territory Parliament does indeed have
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  Speaker 1: the power to refer the IYCAC commiss to its Privileges Committee,
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  Speaker 1: though are you going to be doing that?
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  Speaker 2: So I discussed this if Bruce Booklintok directly as the
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  Speaker 2: independent investigator, so he can while he's not investigating the
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  Speaker 2: comments themselves, he can be informed by the comments and
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  Speaker 2: the comments who are upon a subject he is absolutely
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  Speaker 2: investigating right now, and I've confirmed with him if necessary,
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  Speaker 2: he can make a recommendation to Parliament at the end
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  Speaker 2: of his report about what we should do, and the
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  Speaker 2: point in time that we would act will be at
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  Speaker 2: the conclusion of his independent investigation, so that we as
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  Speaker 2: a government are interfering in that independent investigation.
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  Speaker 1: So when are you anticipating that investigation and the outcomes
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  Speaker 1: are going to come out?
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  Speaker 2: Well, that would be for obviously Bruce determined, but I
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  Speaker 2: imagine it would be sooner rather than later. As I recall,
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  Speaker 2: he hasn't given me a due date, if that makes sense,
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  Speaker 2: but he's actively investigating it at the moment.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, will you allow the whistleblower the opportunity to respond
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  Speaker 1: to the comments made in the parliament.
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  Speaker 2: So everybody has a right of reply, as I understand
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  Speaker 2: understanding orders the whistleblower, I believe it hasn't actually been
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: specifically identified yet, so they may want to consider whether
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  Speaker 2: they want to identify themselves. But do you have a
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  Speaker 2: right of reply through the parliament, So you.
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  Speaker 1: Will allow that that right of reply through the parliament.
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  Speaker 2: Or we've never I've never blocked the right as used rarely,
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  Speaker 2: but we've never blocked the right of reply. There's a
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  Speaker 2: process through the Parliament where you can have a right
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  Speaker 2: of reply.
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  Speaker 1: So as far as you're concerned that person should be
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  Speaker 1: given the opportunity to respond.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, so, as I understand the standing orders that are
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  Speaker 2: very clear that if you feel that you're essentially be
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  Speaker 2: mentioned or be talked about in the Parliament, and that
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  Speaker 2: that applies to me as a member of a parliament.
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  Speaker 2: If I, as Chief Minister, say something, you have the
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  Speaker 2: right to reply through the Parliament as well, because you're
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  Speaker 2: not President of the Parliament. So there is a total
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  Speaker 2: process around that, which is which is which is there?
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  Speaker 1: Okay?
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  Speaker 2: Chief?
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  Speaker 1: Really, the latest situation follows the KAC commissioner wrongly outing
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  Speaker 1: two people after failing to check his junk mail, and
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  Speaker 1: a lot of people were very concerned that the KAC
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  Speaker 1: commissioner was front and center at a rally and Alice
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  Speaker 1: Springs in two thousand and nine and telling the crowd
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  Speaker 1: that black lives matter and anyone who says contrary to
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  Speaker 1: that is guilty of corrupt behavior. Do you still have
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  Speaker 1: confidence in the IQAQ Commissioner.
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  Speaker 2: I have confidence in the IKAK, the commissioner and the
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  Speaker 2: process which includes the independent investigator. So after the IQAC
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  Speaker 2: made the comments he did last year, the independent investigator
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  Speaker 2: asked and to declare a conflict and stand aside, which
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  Speaker 2: he did so showed the independent investigator role works. The
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  Speaker 2: IKAC obviously apologized and recognized the severity of the era
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  Speaker 2: and the denial of natural justice in the other incident
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  Speaker 2: as well. So at the moment the system is working.
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  Speaker 2: I'd like the system. You don't want the system to
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  Speaker 2: have to do the work you rather the system wasn't
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  Speaker 2: required to the work, but the moment the system seems
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  Speaker 2: to be strong and doing the work. First time we
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  Speaker 2: ever have an IQAQ in non territory, and so a
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  Speaker 2: lot of these things have been tested for the first time. Now.
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  Speaker 1: The Police Association says that the KAC Commissioner's appointment is
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  Speaker 1: now clearly untenable and the fact he remains is a
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  Speaker 1: reflection on the weak leadership of Chief Minister mind Gunner,
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  Speaker 1: who is and you are indeed the responsible minister. Do
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  Speaker 1: you need to intervene here?
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  Speaker 2: I think there's a very important point here. This is
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  Speaker 2: the first time I've ever had an IQAQ in ANLN territory.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's critical that as a Chief Minister, as
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  Speaker 2: a government, we do not create a precedent of direct
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  Speaker 2: intervention into the work of an iqaq. I think that
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  Speaker 2: would be a very dangerous precedent. The iqaq's work first
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  Speaker 2: Commissioner's work concludes on July five, that's not that long away.
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  Speaker 2: There is an ongoing investigation upon the matter, which the
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  Speaker 2: police are commenting. So I think it would also be
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  Speaker 2: wise for me to act and interfere in the middle
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  Speaker 2: of an investigation that hasn't concluded, and I genuinely did
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  Speaker 2: not want to create a precedent of Chief Ministers being
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  Speaker 2: able to directly interfere with the work of the IQAQ
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  Speaker 2: or the independent investigator into the IQAQ. I think that'd
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  Speaker 2: be a very dangerous precedent to set.
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  Speaker 1: So at this point in time, you feel quite confident
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  Speaker 1: and happy with the IQAQ remaining in that role until
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  Speaker 1: July fifth.
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  Speaker 2: I am confident in all the process of processes we've established,
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  Speaker 2: from the IRAQAC to the IKAC Commissioner, to the independent
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  Speaker 2: investigator into the IRECAC. And so there's obviously independent investigation
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  Speaker 2: occurring right now, and we'll see what the outcome of
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  Speaker 2: that independent investigation. Is the appropriate time to act as
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  Speaker 2: obviously at the conclusion of investigation, based all the evidence
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  Speaker 2: and the recommendations made, I think all of us to understand.
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  Speaker 2: I think, please more than anone we'd understand the appropriateness
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  Speaker 2: of that.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm very mindful of your time. I know you
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  Speaker 1: do need to rush off, but I do want to ask,
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  Speaker 1: is this situation going to cloud any reports which are
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  Speaker 1: due to be handed down.
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  Speaker 2: I hope not. I hope that all reports that get
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  Speaker 2: handed down by the IROQAC can stand on their own merit,
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  Speaker 2: and I take them very seriously. That's certainly the process,
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  Speaker 2: the path I will be taking to anything the IQAC does,
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  Speaker 2: any matters that come forward with complete seriousness.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, we know that the IQAC set in estimates that
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  Speaker 1: there are three matters that will be released before he goes.
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  Speaker 1: If not, then it will be a very short time
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  Speaker 1: after that. Have you or anyone in your office been
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  Speaker 1: given those reports? No, so when are we expecting them?
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  Speaker 2: They'll be a question to the ik Okay.
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  Speaker 1: Just finally, and I will ask it again. You are
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  Speaker 1: confident in the IKAK Commissioner at this point in time.
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  Speaker 2: I believe he's taken on a very serious responsibility with
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  Speaker 2: our first ever commissioner. I believe he's testing all our
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  Speaker 2: processes and then includes the work of the independent investigator.
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  Speaker 2: And I was a treat very serious, very seriously. Any
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  Speaker 2: report he hands down between now and conclusion of his
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  Speaker 2: first term of duty on July five a very big
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  Speaker 2: important role to get an iq established the territory for
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  Speaker 2: the first time.
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  Speaker 1: We do know that Inspector Bruce mcclint talkie CEE at
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  Speaker 1: the moment is also on another very high profile case nationally.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that that is going to delay the
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  Speaker 1: report that he's conducting here in the territory.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, when I spoke with him, he didn't. He didn't
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  Speaker 2: seem to indicate that he felt he'd being delayed or
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: hampered by Neva's work. That he didn't. He didn't raise
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  Speaker 2: that with me in turn of a need more resources
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: and more time or felt overworked. He seemed confident and
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  Speaker 2: capable of carrying out his duty.
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  Speaker 1: Okay, Chief Minister. Just upon wrapping up, I know that
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: National Cabinets meeting this morning. That is why we're in
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a bit of a hurry today. Don't want to make
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: you too late, but Astrosenka is on the agenda following
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: that advice last week. For those age fifty to sixty sixty,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: What news are you expecting in this space this morning.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm interested in supply. So Operation COVID Shield that
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the Prime Minister and Austrain government is running, led by
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: General JJ is part of the logistics and supply chain
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: for fires and more than anything, we saw an extra
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: twenty thousand people in forty thousand doses essentially of demand.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: With the announcement on Thursday or Friday last week. So
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: for me, I need to have some confidence around our
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: supply the next couple of months around the firezer. So
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: for me, that's the most point thing that we need
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: to discuss now because that was unanticipated demand that we
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: now have.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Do we have enough Well, I.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Don't know, Katie, to be honest, this is a new decision.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: We had enough for how we were handling it. We
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: obviously all our decisions around vaccine to be done in
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: corporation with the Australian Government. The decision last week was
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: obviously unanticipated. We absolutely have enough fires from now to
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the end of the year. It's just more about how
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: do you handle the next couple of months because there's
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: been now quite genuinely, I like this an increase in
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: demand and I don't know how they're going to match
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: fires or to that expected increase in demand over the
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: next couple of months. We had the fires we needed
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: to be able to handle it. Now we've got extra
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: what forty thousand doses twenty thousand people point the air
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: hand up, so we've got to work out how we
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: manage that.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Chief Minister just very quickly a question from one of
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: our listeners, Greater Melbourne remains a declared hot spot as
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I understand it at this point, how much longer can
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: we expect that to stay in place?
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: So I'll get advice from the Acting Premier for Victoria
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: today at National Cabinet, as I will from the Premiere
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: of this South Wales at National Cabinet. Doctor Heggy will
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: be in the AHPPC meeting this afternoon with all the
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Chief of Officers and we'll have a sense this afternoon
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: three o'clock to review all that advice and see whether
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: our settings are right or need to be changed in anyway.
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  Speaker 1: If Minister Michael Gunner, we appreciate your time this morning,
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  Speaker 1: Thanks so much. Thank you are listening to Mix one
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: O four point nine's three point sixty and a short
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: sharp interview this morning because we know that the Chief
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Minister is indeed rushing to get to that meeting with
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: the States and Territory leaders.