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How Stella Got Her Groove Back · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the be Dol Cast, the questions asked if movies
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: have women in um? Are all their discussions just boyfriends
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the bel Cast. Hello, and welcome
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Dronte, my
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast. It
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: is you don't wait? I want to Actually let's start
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: this episode with a quick call out because I went
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I went to our Wikipedia page to see what number
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: episode this was going to be, and our Wikipedia page
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: it's so stopped updating it. It's been left in June.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: It's just June. She whiz. I know, So I feel lost,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: but we do have Wait, let me figure out their
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Twitter handle? Oh yes, yes, who who very generously made
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: five hundred charts. Yeah, so it's on Twitter. Their handle
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: is without Guerrillas. But it truly is really fascinating. We
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: reposted it to our social media. But it kind of
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: just breaks down every aspect of our show, like truly
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: every aspect of like how has Caitlin rated movies? How
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: has Jamie rated movies? What is the breakdown of like
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: directors by gender and by race, and just basically a
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: really interesting look at what we've covered so far that
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: was genuinely helpful to us. So shout out truly some
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: like incredible work that is genuinely like informing and helping
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: our shows. So yeah, thank you you and um but
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you know Wikipedia, I don't know who who We genuinely
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: we never knew who was keeping our Wikipedia page up
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: to date. But thank you for all of the work
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: that you did. And I think it's a beautiful tribute
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: to our show all the way through June. Incredible. Anyways,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Welcome to the show. This is
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the Bectel Cast, in which we examine film through an
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: intersectional feminist lens, one movie at a time, and we
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: use the Bechtel test simply as a way to initiate
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: a larger conversation about representation. But Jamie, what's the Bechtel Test? Okay,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: I do know the answer, Okay, I'm ready. It is
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: a media metric originally created by queer cartoonist Alice in Bechdel,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: sometimes called the Bechtel Wallace test, that requires that a
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: piece of media do the following, and we have altered
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: it slightly for the purpose of our show. Um so
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: two named characters of a marginalized gender must talk to
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: each other about something other than a man for two
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: lines of dialogue. It doesn't usually happen in a movie.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: Not enough, not enough? Have you seen Austin Powers? Sorry,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I have our Wikipedia page up and just pulling from
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: you know, Uh, there's a lot of movies in which
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: it doesn't pass. We use this as a jumping off
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: point for discussion. We don't spend the whole show trying
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: to figure out if it passes the Backtel test. Imagine
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: how boring that would be. I think, I think someday
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: we're gonna pivot to that. That would be a fun
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: April Fools episode is just going through a scriptic line
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: by line that is like the Shoshank redemption and be like,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: what about this exchange? About this one? Nope, between two
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: men still know Well, today's episode I think, well, you know,
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: not to spoil anything, but I think it's gonna fair
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: okay ish as far as Bechtel test specifically goes. But
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: there's a lot to talk about because the movie is
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: how Stella got her groove back and a popular request,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: a popular request, and of course we have a guest
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: joining us. She is a comedian. She is one of
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: the co hosts of Love About Town podcast, she's host
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: of Complexify on Vice, and she is our first ever
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: fourth time guest of the Bechtel Cast. It is can smoke. Hello, Hello.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: That makes me so happy. I did not. It was
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: the only four guest second other guests. You have a guest,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: kiss my ass. I have a fourth timer. Next time
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I'm on, I get a smoking jacket. That's how this
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: ship works. We talked about that. We talked about that
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: last two year. We did. It's important that they know
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: there's a jacket on the way. I feel validated and
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I vindicated, but I'm going to
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: go with that too. Oh yeah, you should. You should
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: feel those things. Congratulations, it's so good to see you.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: It's good to see you too. Man. This is not
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  Speaker 1: important to the podcast at all, but I do love
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: your sweatshirt very much. It is when Bong ho one
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  Speaker 1: for best picture. Right. Yes, yes, it's a quick quick
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: shout out. Caitlin and I were just talking about it. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: This was a sweatshirt made by one of our favorite companies,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Super Hockey. It was a collaboration they did with Karen Hahn,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: who's like this amazing writer who is so funny and yeah,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: so they just made a Bong June Host sweatshirt and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: it's my prize possessions. It's really good. Um, and that
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: does a little bit to foreshadow and upcoming episode we're
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: doing on Parasite. I certainly choose outfits based on foreshadowing future,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: very strategic stuff going on here. Find all my t
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: shirts are flashbacks to past episode, because past episodes, because
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I have several Josie and the Pussycats t shirts, I
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: have several Titanic shirts. I have several Paddington shirts. I
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: have several Star Wars shirts. I have Draassic Park shirt.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: I have a several Back to the Future shirts. I
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: have an Indiana Joe shirt. I'm really just I have
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: too many graphic teas about a lot of toxic movies.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Not all of them are toxic movies, but too many
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: of them are. Among us doesn't have a shirt or
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: two referencing a toxic movie. I thought that you were
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  Speaker 1: saying that the shirt you were wearing at this moment
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  Speaker 1: was a reference, and I was like, deep deep blue,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: See she's just wearing a blue T shirt. But I
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: was just like, oh, what is okay? Sorry, that's makes
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: you think, you know, maybe it is though, could be
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: could be the color. We're overdue for that episode. So yeah,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: um it's okay. So Cannie, what is your relationship with
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: How Stella Got her groove back? So everyone in my
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: life saw it when I was early teens or no,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: like late childhood whatever you call that, tweens. Yes, everyone
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  Speaker 1: in my life was seeing it when I was a
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: tween and Mike cousin moved down to St. Thomas. I
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: think after reading the book, uh, not watching the movie,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: my mom went on this very dramatic vacation where she
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: bought several bathing suits for it. She went to St. Thomas.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Uh So it was like a big thing that people
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: were talking about, and any time anyone dated a younger man,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: it was like, oh, she's getting her groove back. So
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: this I didn't see it until this year, but it
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: was part of my world for twenty years before that. Sure,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: have you read the book at all? I have not
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: read the book. I am so interested in reading it
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: based on the background that we discussed before this recording happened,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: which we'll talk about a little bit later. Have you
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: read the book? I haven't read the book. I as
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you know, I never read books. Well, this is this
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: is the this is the part where were we at
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the box book cast famously remind our listeners that we
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: do not read the books books. I still think. I'm
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I still carry so much trauma from how mad people
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: were after the Lord of the Rings episode, Like, we're
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: not a book podcast. I don't know what to say.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: People were furious at us. A few people were furious
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: at us too for the Practical Magic episode. There was
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: a book. Just write that book. There is a book.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Who do we have to do an episode every week?
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: We can't be reading a full We don't have to.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: There's a free podcast. We don't like to take it
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: or leave it. Oh my god, it stresses me out.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: So it stresses me out so much. So just so
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you know, we didn't read the book, did not read it.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: But I agree that they're rewatching the movie. Maybe want
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: to read the book, Jamie. What is your relationship with
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: the movie? Uh, this is I think I have this
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: experience with the number of movies we've covered before. I've
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: seen this movie, but I saw it like on TV,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: like tv as or T n T in chunks and
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  Speaker 1: I never like really sat down and watched this movie
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  Speaker 1: and really, um like took it all in at once.
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  Speaker 1: So um, this was my first time really like giving
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  Speaker 1: this movie my full attention. I knew I was like
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  Speaker 1: five when it came out, so I did, so I
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  Speaker 1: don't remember. I know a lot of people like my mom.
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  Speaker 1: I saw it. I texted her, I was like, did
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  Speaker 1: you see how Stell got her groove? Actually was like, oh, yeah,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: it was a bit. It was a night out with friend.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, yeah, just loves a rom com
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: and this is you know, we're in the golden age
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  Speaker 1: of rom coms here. So yeah, this was my first
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: time kind of really seeing it with full attention, and
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I really loved it it really. I mean, I'm easily
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  Speaker 1: emotionally manipulated, and this movie did take full advantage of
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  Speaker 1: that at many points. But I love I loved watching it.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Was It's such a fun, different, cool movie. What about you, Caitlin. Um,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I had never seen this movie before prepping for this episode.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I'll chalk it up to if you take the even
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: diagram of romantic movies, either like romantic comedies or romantic dramas,
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  Speaker 1: because this movie kind of falls somewhere in the middle
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: of that. It. Yeah, it switches tones at different moments. Yeah,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: for sure. That on like one circle of the Venn
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: diagram and then movies that Caitlin tends to watch and enjoy. Um,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: there's very little overlap its Titanic Titanic center. Yes, and
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: it's maybe like Mulan Rouge and Before Sunrise and then
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: every other romantic drama or romantic movie really of any kind.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Um is you know, I just probably haven't seen it
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: or don't care about it. So I had not seen
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: this movie, so I didn't really know what to expect.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: There's a lot to unpack, there's a lot to talk about.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: I can't wait. It's there's some goofy. There's some really
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: silly scenes that I can't wait to describe, and I'm
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: very excited, can't wait, can't wait? Should we just should
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: we dive into the recap and go from there? Yeah,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: a lot happens in this Maybe a lot happens, and
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: yet there's sort of not a plot. Caitlyn thinks it's
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: too long. It's too it is too it's two hours long.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: It is I'm going to agree for a rob camp
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: for what yet? Condense all this? Yeah, it's definitely weighs
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: to tighten the story. Make it ninety minutes. I don't
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: know why it was two hours. Okay. So we meet Stella.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: That's Angela Bassett. Of course we see her at work.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: She does something with stocks or money or business. And
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: then and then the twist Victor Garber. Victor Garber is there,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and really how Stella got her groove back comes out
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: in weren't you just in Titanic the year before this? Victor?
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: And he's like, yeah, He's like, I sure was any
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: questions if a movie involves water, the ocean, the planned
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: trip that goes awry, he doesn't even need to be
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: near the water, he just has, but he's there in spirit. Ye. Yes.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: The point is Stella has kind of like an important
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: high stress job and she's very good at it. Then
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: we meet Stella's sisters. Angela played by Susanne Douglas, who
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I'm not super familiar with her or her work, um,
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: But her other sister is Vanessa played by Regina King.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Sach a funny Regina King performance. Yes, she's been doing
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: this for so long, she's so good big the other sister. Wow.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: I mean you'll get to this with the recap, but
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: what a bit okay? She is worth noting that she
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: is highly gregnant in this film. She is Greek at
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: with twins, with two Greg's two little Greg's swimming around
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: in there. Um okay. So her sisters, especially Angela, is
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: trying to set Stella up with a man and Stella
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: is like, I'm okay, I'm good. We also learned that
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Stella has an eleven year old son named Quincy, and
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: he goes off to spend a couple of weeks with
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: his dad, Stella's ex husband, Walter. And while he's gone,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Stella sees a commercial for Jamaican tourism and which she
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: kind of like projects herself into the commercial and then
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: she's like, fuck it, I'm gonna call my best friend
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Delilah played by Whoopie Goldberg, and she's like, let's go
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: to Jamaica and Delilah is like yes. So then cut
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to their in Jamaica and I think it's their first
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: morning there. Uh. Stella is at a restaurant having breakfast
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: and suddenly Tay Diggs is there and he approaches her
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: and he's like, hello, good morning. My name is Winston Shakespeare.
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: And she's like, okay, great name, great name, great name. Um,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: which she's like, your name is fake. And he's like, well,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: what if Shakespeare was black? We don't know, which is
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: a very popular theory and it comes up all the time.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: It came out like this. There was another like wave
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: of that this past year. Oh really wait, I haven't
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: heard this before. Maybe this year. It's it's often discussed
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: that Shakespeare is black and that Beethoven is black. Maybe
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: that's what happened this year. I think the Beethoven one
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: came out this year. The Shakespeare thing I remember just
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: generally as a thing. It's a washing that he he
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: was part black. Maybe the shack he wrote the Sonnet
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: about was part black. It's oh interesting, I'm gonna have
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: to do some reading on this. Hell yeah. In any case, Uh,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Winston is hot. Um big, very important, exact, really important
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: that we know that Winston is hot. I did write
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: that down. I was like, I just need to say
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Taye Diggs, damn. That's all that. That's the note. He
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: looks great. This is like his career making role, right,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: This was like his big breakout role, his first feature
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I think I think like he had already done in
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: rent On Broadway or something before this, yeah, mostly stage.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and then that's how he had met Idina Menzel,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: right right right. Um. Also, I should say that my
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: first year of being on Twitter, which was like two,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I spent the entire first year just trying to tweet
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: at ta Diggs to get him to follow me, because
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: he follows everybody. He follows more people than follow him.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: He has like some celebrities are just like what is
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the strategy there? There were like articles written about it.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone remembers this, but like people
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: were righting and like commenting all the time about how
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: like people are like what is Taate Diggs doing on Twitter?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: He just will follow anybody. He just so he was
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: following tons and tons of people and they weren't you
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: know that some of them were people with like no
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: other followers. Like he was just following anybody. So I
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: was like, I need him to follow me. So I
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: was just constantly tweeting either at him or about him,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: trying to get him to follow me, and it never happened.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: He's to this day, Wow, he only follows people who
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: like don't care. Yeah, I was trying too hard. I
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: guess he could have just set still. And now I'm like,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: just Tate Diggs follow he doesn't he there's no way
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: that tatg s fellows me. But you never know that's true.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: I think I think we should listeners. Please help us
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: all get followed me Cannie Jamie. We all need to
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: be followed by Tay Diggs and we need your help,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: so please. There's also so there's another Ta. I just
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: there's I saw Ta Diggs recently on television because I
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: shamefully watched Selling Sunset, and Ta Diggs is a very
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: present force on It's like a Netflix reality show about
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: this group of horrible women who sell real estate in
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: like better off of Sunset. So it's just like full
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: like remove your brain from your head TV. I I
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: enjoy it time to time. It's very silly, um, but
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Taye Diggs is on the show buying a house in
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: the first season, and everyone's like his The central plot
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: of a whole episode is is Tate Diggs gonna buy
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: this really nice house? And then I forget if he does.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: But then in the next season and the next season,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: Tay Diggs is not physically there, but is present because
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: he seems to have had such a big, outsized influence
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: on season one of Selling Sunset that in season two
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: or possibly three, his ex girlfriend or his current girlfriend
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: at the time, I don't remember. All of a sudden,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: she's a cast member of Selling Sunset. I don't know
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: why t Diggs has as an influence over what happens
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: on Selling but permeated that show more than you'd think.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: He's a mystery that t Digs. Anyways, I'm a big fan. Yeah,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: good grief. Okay. So the point is that in the story,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: he is attractive, and he is twenty years old and
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Stella is forty, and they figured this out right away
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: because he starts to hit on her and she's like,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: how old are you even and he's like, I'm twenty
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and she's like, cool, I am twice your age. Also
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: an amazing example of like, so infrequently do women get
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to play their own age on screen, and Angela Bassett
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: is permitted to play her age in this movie. It's
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: I think that's so rare in awesome. Meanwhile, Tay Digs
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: is a little older than his character. I think he
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: was seven seven when he when this movie comes out
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: at least I think so. Anyway, he is not bothered
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: by the age difference, and he invites her to this
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: like pajama disco party that's happening that night, and she's like, um, thanks,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: but no thanks. But then she goes to the dance
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: and they danced together all night, but she doesn't spend
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the night with him. And Delilah WHOOPI Goldberg again. It
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: was like, Stella, why didn't you have sex with him?
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Like what are you doing? You silly so and so?
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: And Stella is like, I don't know. He's like twenty
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: years younger than me. I don't know what I'm doing.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And then the next day, Stella takes a dip in
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: the pool and Winston's like, Hi, I'm here again. We
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: got a bushemy test this movie. Yeah, although have you
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: seen pictures of a young Steve Bush? I feel like, yes,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I had, And You're like, okay, I'm listening. I get it. Yes,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: mr man who's followed me to a pool? Yes, Well,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: in the movie when she's like this pool scene, Danny
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Glover was in the movie and all of his scenes
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: get cut, but remember the part where she's like help me.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: There's this like old man over there trying to hit
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: on me. That's Danny Glover did not know, but they
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: cut everything except for that kind of like wide shot
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: where you can't even tell it. It's also because he's
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: like in old makeup. They like aged him up to
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: make him look older, um, so you can't tell that
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: it's him. But anyway, they cut all of his scenes.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: So she's like, this old guy is trying to hit
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: on me, and he's like, well, so am I And
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: she's like, what you're trying like someone doesn't like you
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: just danced with this man for six hours in a row.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: When he when you arrived at the pajama party, he
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: stared directly at your breast for a while before looking
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: into your face to talk to you. And you're like,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: but you're attracted to me? What? It's so rom calm now,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: it's so nineties rom calm. We're like the female leaders
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: like momum mum me. It's like duh, yes, right, even
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: though I mean when they met, he like comes over
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to her and he's like, let's have breakfast together. You're
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: so beautiful party with me. Yeah, in the moment they meet,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: but she is like not aware that he is hitting
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: on her because she's like, wait, you want to be
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: intimate with me? And he's like yeah, and she's like okay.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: So then cut too. They're in her hotel room and
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: she okay, I don't know how to describe this for
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: play that happens, but it's like it's awkward at first,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: and then he thinks she's like in her bed, all
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: under the covers, lying completely still, so then he takes
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: off all of his clothes but surprised she's behind him,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: so she like jumps on him, and then they're like
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and then a weird scene, but you're like, it's hot,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: but it's weird. Yes, it's goofy, and then they and
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: then they have sex. But then and I was getting
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: a little confused by this because it seems like he
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: kind of blows her off, or she interprets it as
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: being blown off because he very suddenly gets a job
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and he's like not available to hang out with her
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the rest of this vacation. I mean, I mean I
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I kind of interpreted it where she didn't believe that
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: he had gotten the job, and so she's like, I'm
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: being blown off and he made up an excuse to
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: not hang out with me. Yeah, that's what I thought.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: She thought, Yeah, okay, it was like an insecurity thing.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: But he did get a job. But he did get
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: a job. Yeah, he wasn't lying. I think she assumed
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: that he was making up an excuse to blow her off.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: But I do have a quick question. She's staying at
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: a resort. Why is he at the resort? Great question,
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Like he's there for breakfast and he's not working there.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: He's just he has a hat, like he lives with
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: his family kind of close. Why is he there? Why
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: is he there? I thought that too. I did not
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: think that. Well, he does say at one point like
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: I'm here trying to get a job. So I don't
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: know if he's just sort of lingering by the resort
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: because he ends up getting a job in the kitchen
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: is like a chef. They're like, well, you seem to
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: be here a lot, so would you like a job?
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: That seems like something my mom would suggest though, like
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: for how to get a job, Well, you just going
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: there hanging out. See what happens the bound to do something?
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: You're there, So I mean that's how a lot of
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: comedy clubs like they're like, oh, well, if you want
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: to get booked here. You just have to spend your
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: entire life here and then we'll maybe think about booking you.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Maybe there's a guy named Josh that you got to
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: see him. He makes people laugh so much, so we're
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: gonna book him. But not you remember comedy, Okay? Um?
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: So anyway, she's like she's pissed that that. She thinks
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: like she's being blown off, and she goes back home
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: to San Francisco, where she gets fired from her job.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: She's like, no, what am I gonna do? But then
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: she gets a call from Winston and he's like, I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: miss you. Come back to Jamaica, and and then cut
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: to she's back, very unclear of I was like, I
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: was like, is it summer? Like it's okay that Quincy
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: is Quincy skipping school to the time of this movie.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: The timing of this movie is not clear because she's like, hey,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: I told Quincy maybe we'd go down for the summer.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Wait when was he with his dad? How long is
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: their relationship before They're like, we'll get to that stuff.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: But it feels like this feels all very fast. In California,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: you can't tell the weather, but what right, especially because
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: like and yeah, we'll get to this too. But like
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: he moves in with her at one point and it's like,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: but you've only been hanging out for two nonconsecutive weeks, Like, yeah,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, So she so she returns to Jamaica,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: this time with her son and niece, so she's hanging
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: out with Winston. He introduced Stella to his parents, but
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: it doesn't go well, like his mom comments on Stella's age,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: calls her desperate stuff like that, um, And then Stella
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: gets word that Delilah is having a medical emergency due
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: to cancer, which Stella didn't know Delilah had, So Stella
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: returns to the US. Delilah dies, Um, Winston shows up
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: at the funeral, and then he moves in with Stella
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: like they're now they're living together again. The timeline is
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: very unclear because because you get some idea of time
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: when you find out that Whoopie Goldberg has been in
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: the hospital for two weeks, but then you're like, well, what,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: they don't live in the same place, so I don't know,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: like you, it's very unclear, right, yeah, for sure, But
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: he's living with her now, and some issues arise in
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: their relationship. The age gap is weighing on Stella in particular.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Winston is kind of self conscious about not being as
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: financially secure as she is, and Stella is just kind
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: of overall feeling sort of aimless about her life and
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: her career. And then Winston asks Stella to marry him,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and she does not give an answer, and a week
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: or so passes and he's like, well, clearly I'm not
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: the man you want, so I'm just gonna I'm gonna
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: go back to Jamaica and go to medical school. So
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: he packs his things up and heads to the airport.
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: But Stella beats him to the airport. We don't know
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: how good driver. There's a little okay, she's a jet.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: There's a little throw away line from the radio broadcast
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: where we so we see Winston in the cab and
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: on the radio it's like, well, the one oh one
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: is is there's so much traffic, so if you're going
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: to the airport, good luck. But the two eighties, the
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: coast is clear, So apparently that lets the audience know
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: that Stella took that highway instead, and that's how she
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: beats him to the airport, because when he enters, she's
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: already there. She's looking around frantically and then they spot
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: each other and then she's like, yes, I will marry you,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: and then they kiss and that's the end of the movie.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: They're gonna live happily ever after. In my head, I'm like,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it's not gonna work out back the stress of him
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: being younger plus going through medical school. Also, are they
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: just given out admission into Stanford Medical? Like she's just like,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: oh my god. What she was like, just go to
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Stanford And she's like, Stanford has a medal school school, right,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: why don't you just go there? No application, no waiting process,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: no interviews. That's like a what That is a testament
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: to the power of Angela Bassett because when she said it,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, yeah, why didn't he think of that
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: when that is objectively so ridiculous. Yeah, we're just like, oh, yeah,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: that's what he'll do. Howevard's got a medical school there.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: That was I was as because I forgot if they
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: get together at the end or not. And so after
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: they broke up, just when he's like, I'm going to
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: go to middle school school, I was sitting next to
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: my boyfriend and I was like, but there's doctors in
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: America don't go like and Angela Basset felt the same way,
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: because that's what Stella says. Well, let's take a quick
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: break and then we'll come back to discuss and we're back.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Uh where where to begin with? I feel like, so okay,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: just to I guess contextualize when this movie came out,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like this movie falls squarely in kind of
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the golden age of rom com movies, where it's like
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: the nineties into the mid two thousand's. It's kind of
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: a ten year period where problematic rom coms are just
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: several times a year. There are many actresses associated with
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the genre, but this is, like I now, especially after
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: rewatching it, I think for all of the silly things
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: that we're going to talk about, of which there are many,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I think it's one of the best, and it's one
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: of the most like grounded, interested in its main characters,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: interested in subverting what you kind of think about this
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: genre while also doing a lot of silly things associated
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: with this genre. Agree yeah, Like there's she sets boundaries
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in this movie in a way that I'm like, hell yeah,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: Like I don't feel like a lot of characters in
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: rom coms are like, actually, I don't like you talk
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: to me like this and this is a clear issue
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: and let's have a discussion about it. It's like, for
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: some reason I made up in my head that you're
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: cheating on me, and now we're fighting. Like the a
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: lot of the disagreements that they have seemed justified in like, uh,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: we set boundaries, oh, misunderstanding sort of way. Yeah. I
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: love that she That's like one of the best things
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: that you you never see if you see a woman
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: in a round com set a boundary, it's almost as like,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's framed as like a challenge to
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: cross it, and it's no means yes situation which we
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: see in round comms all the time of like stay
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: away from me, Titanic, stay away from me, and then
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: he's shows up and then she's like, you're right, I
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: love you, and I don't know. I like that Stella.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: By and large, there's a few moments where you're like,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: what happened there? Uh? But I like that Stella is
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, not just setting boundaries with Winston, kind of
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: setting boundaries with everyone. She sets boundaries with her sisters,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: especially Angela deserves it, who deserves it? But even Angela
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: kind of has that moment of like they have an
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: actual discussion and Angela I was, I was like, is
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: she going to be like a shrewd character? But then
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: she has a moment of they have a moment of
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: understanding and apology, and you can sort of understand why
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Angela's worried about Stella, but also it's like, why are
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: you behaving so rudely? But yeah, she sets boundaries that
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: should not be revolutionary and around calm, but it is,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: especially because I mean, I don't know still even how
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: much I would classify this as a rum calm, because
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I mean there are humorous starts this one. Yeah, and
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: it takes a little bit of a tonal shift, especially
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: when Whoopie Goldberg dies. Okay, that did not need to
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: happen at all, not at all. I think that, well,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I think it happens because this is kind of loosely
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: autobiographical for Terry McMillan, which we'll talk about more. But um,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: she mentions in some interview that I watched that around
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: this time in her life her best friend died, so
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I think she just incorporated that into this story, but
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense for what else happens. In the movie,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe not, but I mean a lot
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: of rom coms there's like a very kind of tried
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: and true structure where it's like either um, they're usually
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: very hetero. So it's like the man and the woman
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: can't be together because they start out hating each other,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: or they're starting to fall in love, but one of
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: them has lied to the other one about something very
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: significant and they'll have to come clean by you know,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: the end of the second act, and what is that
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: going to mean for their relationship? So these are the formulas.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: So this this movie doesn't fall into that formula at all.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It's more just like here, here's a woman who knows
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: what she wants, who's already very established in her life
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: because she's forty, she's a mother, and she has her
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: ship together. And then along comes Winston Shakespeare who is
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: just too hot to ignore and and he like worships her,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and she's just like, Okay, you know what I deserve this.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I deserve someone who likes me and who cares about me.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: And even though do they have anything in common, they don't.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: They don't, but you know, they mostly get along and
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: they're very attracted to each other here. So that's why
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: they're together. I guess, yeah, I mean, whether they are,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's one of those things where I
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: think it speaks to how ingrained this kind of format is,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: where it's like, even if you pretty much know it
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: doesn't make sense and a breakup between them is probably
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: healthier for both of them, and they basically almost make
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: the practical decision. You would be so upset of that
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and kiss at the end because it's a movie, but
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: like realistically this would um most likely not work out.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: But I under I mean again, it's like going into
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the autobiographical stuff, which I guess we should just sort
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: of address at the top. So, um, this movie was
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: based on a novel by Terry McMillan, who we have
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: discussed on the show before because she's also the author
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and co screenwriter of Waiting to Exhale. She is and
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I con of this era and now she's still writing.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: She has like some fun quotes that I want to
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: go to for an interview she did this year. Um,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: But why her personal life is relevant to this is
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: because a lot of it is pulled from her own
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: life directly, where she went on a vacation in her
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: early forties, met a man who was twenty year in
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: his early twenties and they got married and so like
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: she lived out the full house, Della got her groove
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: up back narrative at least, and and you know in
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: n this is reflective of her full experience where they
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: get married and Terry McMillan got married to what was
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: his name, his name Jonathan Plumber, Jonathan Plummer. So they
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: do get married and as of nine they are married
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: and it's all good, and later on it became and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I guess, I guess like I only feel comfortable talking
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: about this because she was very public about discussing it
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: and even as of this year, was like, yeah, no regrets.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: But so it turned out that their relationship was kind
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: of built on a lot of asterisks in that he
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: was a gay man and that he married her to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: get I mean it was she said, and then he
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: sort of said it was to get a green card.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: So their marriage fell apart in the early to mid
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: two thousands, Terry McMillan went, there's two different Oprah episodes
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: about it. It's all very of the era where Caitlin
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: and I both watched through the interviews where the first episode,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: she goes on Oprah and she's like, I feel so betrayed.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: I feel like, what is happening? This is so, this
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: is like horrible, which, yeah, that sounds like a very
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: interest experience. Yeah, but she goes on Oprah to be
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: like what the fuck? And then like five years after that,
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: she and Christopher or not Christopher Plumber. Oh my god, Monathan,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: I would love Christopher Flummer just you know, when you're
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: like trying so hard not to make a mistake and
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: then you just make it. Um the sound of music,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: How Stella Gotta Grow Back right there, one after the other,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: boom boom, his biggest legacy, it was got The love
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: story between Terry McMillan and Christopher Plummer didn't end well. Um,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: So she and her ex husband Jonathan Plummer go on
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Oprah like five is years after that in and everything
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: is kind of cool. But they discussed their experience to
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: hear both perspectives, and that's kind of like a wrap on,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: you know, because How Stella Gotta Grow Back is so autobiographical.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: I guess that's how it really would have ended. But
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: this movie was made in and we didn't know what
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Terry McMillan would come to know it a later time, right.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: But that said Terry McMillan, I know we discussed her
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: on the Waiting to Xcale episode, but she's bucking awesome. Um.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: She's an iconic black writer who also made the jump
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: into adapting her own work, which I feel like is
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: very rare. She she adapts it with and we all
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just breathe through it because we talked
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: about it on the other episode. She partners with Ron Bass,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: who is like kind of a controversial white male screenwriter
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: who I don't I mean, make of him what you will.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: I guess He's written a lot, He's co written a
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: lot of wonderful movies. He seems often paired with a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: first time or less experienced screenwriter, but he is very
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: for us, straight says hat white guy. He is very
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: often writing on projects that are about marginalized communities, which
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean. He co wrote rain Man,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: He adapted The Joy Luck Club with Amy Tan who
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: was the original and who is the author of the novel,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: and then he adapted Waiting the Exhale and Stella got
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: her groove back with Terry McMillan, there's also like a
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: side controversy where there's it's speculated that all of his
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: screenplays are sort of written by his female assistance. That's
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the whole thing. He seems somewhat controversial, but there's not
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: a ton written about him. I wasn't really able to
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: land anywhere. It's all a little sus to me. Terry
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: McMillan at least liked him enough to collaborate with him
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: a second time. This is the second collaboration, so I
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: don't know, let's ignore him. Terry McMillan is awesome. Yeah,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: this is like partially based on her life. Yes, just
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: kind of two piggyback a little bit more on her
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: and her kind of like legacy and stuff, and that
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: we can kind of get back more into the specifics
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: of Stella. I was reading an article from The Guardian
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: entitled it was just sort of like um kind of
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: profiling Hurts and titled novelist Terry McMillan on Love, Death
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: and Dirty Secrets. They describe the Terry McMillan affect uh quote,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: a phrase some used to describe the publishing industry discovering
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: how starved for relatable stories Black women are or were
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: which is like very I mean, Terry McMillan has written
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: like a few of only a small handful of movies
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: about like that celebrate like black womanhood and that like
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: celebrate black female friendship. And again like I mean we
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: talked about this on the Set It Off episode where
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: there's only like as far as like kind of more
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: mainstream movies go there, there's like a Girl's Trip, there's
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: waiting to exhale as far as like an ensemble cast
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: of black women like and their story, like there's just
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: so little so um yeah, I mean and and and
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Terry McMillan and her work has like contributed to what
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: little there is is are is like cinematic stories, so
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: we are we are grateful for that. Um but yeah,
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: I mean it does. It goes to show how how
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: few of these types of stories there are. You know,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: audiences want more and studios keep just not making enough.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I will say HBO makes stories for black women in
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: a way that I'm like, guys, look how well these
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: shows are doing for HBO. Just like I'm not even
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: asking you to be good people, just make a good
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: financial decision, Like all the black women I know watch TV,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: if they watch movies, They go out, they do things,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: they give money to black stuff. All you have to
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: do is make black stuff. Some of it is not good,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: but we are still going to buy it, just like
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: it makes good economic sense because we're like, yes, that
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: is me, thank you, thank you. I don't have to
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: mentally put myself in the body of a blonde, thin,
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: white woman who's younger than me to have a story.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Okay, please give this to me. Yeah, And
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: that's only I feel like that's been in pretty recent
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: years to things secure and yeah, and prior to that,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: it was just like, well, let's give another you know,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: white blonde person a show. Yeah, there's a lot of
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Terry McMillan in the screenplay. It's hard to not bring
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: her up every two seconds. But she also speaks to
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: another thing that I think how Stella got a group
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: that kind of deviates from your cookie cutter romantic movie
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: from the late nineties um which is addressing an age
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: gap in text at all, especially an age gap where
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: the woman in the relationship is older. She spoke about
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: this in an interview this year where she just says, quote,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: nobody talked about it back then, meaning age gaps and
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: she's like, at the time, for women dating a younger
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: man felt like a dirty secret. And so she's like, directly,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, not only because it sounds like she got
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: a fair amount of blowback about an age gap in
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: her her own life, but also because it's like, well,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: if she was feeling this way, she guessed correctly that
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: other women were feeling this way, and she'd never seen
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: it addressed in a in a large way that doesn't
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: bring a lot of that examines it without like casting shame.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's awesome. Well, let's let's let's talk
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: about this, the age gap in this movie, and kind
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: of I mean, we've talked at length on the podcast
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: about double standards when it comes to just kind of
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: romance across the board, for like hetero relationships in particular,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: where it is deemed as being socially acceptable or more
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: socially acceptable for an older man to date a far
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: younger woman, whereas, uh, if an older woman is dating
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: a younger man, a lot of people take a lot
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: of issue with it for reasons that are of course
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: rooted in setism and agism. You know, society not finding
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: value in older women, society having rigid beauty standards that
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: glorify youth and demonize the natural process of aging. Uh,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: you know, just reasons like that. And so in the
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: movie we see you know it's it's Stella is forty,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Winston is twenty. He has just finished his like four
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: year college degree in biology. He's kind of gearing up
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: to maybe go to med school, but he also doesn't
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: know if that's what he wants. So that's where he's
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: at in his life. Whereas Stella is established in her career,
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: which she does get fired from later, but at the
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: beginning of that, I will say, is like and I
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: think it's also seen in Waiting to Exhale, there's this
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: of the nineties. There's this like respectable black woman and
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: like she's got to be hyper competent, and they really
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: like she's on the phone with like three different people.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: She's like telling a white assistant that she needs to
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: go do this and that and the other. It is
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: this competency porn that like informs how I was like, Oh,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: this is how I'm going to be when I'm forty.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's like this is what being an
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: adult is. Uh yeah, it's I'm happy that we're moving
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: away from that because that's very hard to both achieve
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: and maintain. But sure, yeah, yeah, but it needs it
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: was nice to see that when I was growing up.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Sure yeah. And and like it is like an unfair standard. Yeah,
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: because like you know, black women can be mediocre to
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: like they don't have to be like they don't have
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: to be these like rich awesome stockbrokers, can be semi
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: unemployed comedians. Yes, we can do it all. Just show
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: us doing all the things. Yes, thank you, Oh my god,
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: that that scene. I was I mean I was back
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: and forth on that because I totally see what you're
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: saying there. I And but this is also the most
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen a one and do her job and
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: us understand what her job is in a romance movie,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: where usually it's like, Hi, I'm a curator. Don't ask
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: me why I'm interested in this or how I got
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: this job. I'm a curator. I'm a baker, and it's
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: like you don't know what their passion is and you
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah I don't, but but that that there
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: are two that's a it's a double edged sword where
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I hadn't even considered that they're bringing it up, not
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: for no reason, and yeah, and I think there's a
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: whole other conversation to be had about her career and
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: her interests in making furniture. Um, so I won't dive
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: into that too much yet. So back to the kind
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: of age gap thing where so Winston approaches her. There's
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: never any like I'm reminded of like an episode of
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: thirty Rock, where like Tina Fay starts dating a much
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: younger man but they're both lying about their age because
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: it's like, oh no, so she's pretending to be like
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: thirty even though she's like thirty eight or something, and
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: he's pretending to be even though he's twenty. So there's
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: nothing like that in this story and how Stella got
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: her grow back. They are both extremely upfront about their
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: age right off the bat. Winston doesn't seem to have
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: an issue with it at all. He learns how old
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: she is, and he does say some stuff that he
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: thinks is a compliment, and it's not a compliment because
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: he's like, you're forty. You're too hot to be forty,
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: because forty year old people look like shit, is what
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: he's Yeah, he's like, I've never seen a forty year
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: old woman look as beautiful as you, and it's like,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I know you think you're complimenting her, but that's not
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: a compliment. Um anyway, you don't need to tear down
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: every other forty or your old woman that's ever existed
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: in the process, right um. In any case, they're both
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: made aware of each other's age right off the bat,
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: and it is something that um Stella especially struggles. She's
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: getting flak from nearly everybody in her life about it.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Her sister, especially Angela, is like, you cradle Robert. Delilah
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: teases her about it, although Delilah is also like, police
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: have sex with him immediately. Yeah, she's very supportive in
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: a short term sense. At first she's supportive of a fling,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: and then when it becomes a relationship, she dies. We
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: don't really know, because she dies, it kills her. I do,
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I do kind of. I mean I think that I
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: don't know. There's good parts of how this is handled
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: in bad parts. I feel like the fact that the
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: age gap is discussed so much, taking the autobiographical elements
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: out of it and just viewing strictly as story. The
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: fact to me that they are constantly talking about the
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: age gap has a lot to do with the gender
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: dynamics at play here, because we see in movies all
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: the time, uh, male lead who has a much younger
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: who has a twenty year age gap or more with
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: a female love interest, and most of the time it's
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: not even addressed, or if it is addressed, it's addressed
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: through a joke or some kind of like whatever. But
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: it's like it's a non issue. Where in those relationships
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: as well, age gap is like for sure. I mean,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, how does Leonardo DiCaprio connect with
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: his girlfriends? I don't know, what do they talk about?
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: What did they there's such a I feel like we've
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: maybe brought it up before. But there's a really funny
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: clip of Leonardo DiCaprio knowing exactly what happens in season
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: one of Euphoria, and it's fully because he only dates
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: twenty two year olds that watch Euphoria. But he's like, yeah,
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: as it as Euphoria season one, episode five famously said,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, your girlfriends are so young. Um, He's like,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend was born the year Titanic came out, And
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: you're like often times, in any case, we're I'm not
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: here to like cast a ton of judgment on relationships
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: with age gaps. What I'm saying is that it does
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: feel very intentional, that it's when there is an older
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: woman and a younger man that it has brought up
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: constantly and brought up to shame her versus I think
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: when you we see it in the reverse, it's like hell, yeah, dude,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: Like look what you did. So that's like a really
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: real thing where we've seen it in like pop culture
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: a ton where it's like they're kind of like mother
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: than like they're cougars, they're like predators, they're blah blah
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: blah town. Do you guys think that she would be
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: as villainized and do you think that some of the
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: plot points of this would go away if he happened
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: to be a rich twenty year old Oh, Because like
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: the thing that initiates some of their fights is like
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: what he can afford, what he can't afford, what he's
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: had access to, what he has had access to. Like
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: when she's on the phone talking to wi Be Goldberg,
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: when she goes down to Jamaica a second time, she's like,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: he hasn't really done anything, and he hasn't traveled anywhere.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: Should we just be dating rich twenty year olds, I guess,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: is my question. It makes you think there is kind
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: of a class thing. But also like he's the son
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: of a surgeon, so he's not actually poor. He just
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: like isn't making any of his own money really at
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: this point. So it's yeah, I don't it's weird. Yeah, okay,
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I just want an excuse I have
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: this man on a lot now, I'm kidding. I No,
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I mean that is like a class is I mean,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: can you you already started discussing it? But like class
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: is a thing in this movie that it isn't. It's
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: only brought up kind of in one scene, kind of
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: where scene I really like where Stella is talking about
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: why does she work in the job she wants? And
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: it's not because it's something she was passionate about. She
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: was passionate about furniture question mark. But that did feel
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: so tacked on. You're like, okay, sure, yeah, she likes furniture.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen a passion for furniture in a romantic
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: movie before, so I guess that's new groundbreaking. Yeah, but
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: I like the scene where she's talking about, well, I
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: didn't take this job because I felt passionately about it.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I took it because, like my mom was passionate about
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: me being lifted out of poverty. And that is a
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: really powerful, potent conversation that is really only kind of
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: addressed through the furniture storyline, but it is. It's like
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: she's she has I mean, look at her house. Yeah,
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: that's a nice she has money, and my apartment could
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: fit in her furniture studio, and I'm just like, wow, okay,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: cocoo coockoo coo, you just have my apartment to sitting
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: behind your house unused. You haven't been back there in years?
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: Is okay? Interesting? Okay, Yeah, there's uh, poor people don't
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: really come into play in this movie at all, which
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: is kind of to me. Compounded and the fact that
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: it takes place at or a lot of it takes
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: place at a like resort, which are famously exploitative, like
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: take from poor people and so yeah, class this genre
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: just doesn't like to acknowledge poor people. Yeah, really, like,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: for all the things that this movie does, right, that
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: is not one of them. Yeah. The closest thing I
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: think would be like Regina King needs to borrow three
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars because she has a job, but it's a
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: lower paying job and she doesn't seem to be earning
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: enough to make ends meet. But she drives an ambulance,
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: which those are some of the funniest parts of the movie.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: Someone's being loaded into the ambulance clearly having a medical
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: emergency and they're like, come on, let's go, and she's like,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: in a minute, I'm on the phone because she didn't
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: get you so funny all the time, she's been funny.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: She can do funny everywhere. But yeah, they do kind
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: of like they don't even address it. But when when
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Stella goes and meets Winston's parents and she's trying to
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: be nice because she since is the situation is awkward,
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: She's like, oh, can I help with anything, and the
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: mom very quickly asserts the workers can do that. It
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: was just like this weird thing that's like no, no, no no,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: we're wealthy, like and it seems like she was playing
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: with class in that moment too, because I don't think
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: she knows that Stella is like a wealthy person. It
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: was just like it was this weird like, let's constantly
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: shift the dynamics so that you are not comfortable and
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: then the rest of that scene is Winston's mom being like,
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: you pathetic piece of ship dating my son, which brings
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: us back to the the age gap thing where like, yeah, Jamie,
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: you were saying, we're not here to like shame people
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: in relationships that have an age gap. No, And in fact,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: it's like, I'm fully supportive of that. They should like
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: if this is a relationship they want they like each other,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, who are their families and friends to
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: be like this isn't okay? It's just the I think
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: it's just the amount of discussion that's had about it
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: that is, but that it's like it's indicative, and yeah,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: it gets talked about a lot in this movie, but
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: that's only because it is very much mirroring how society
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: feels about this dynamic of the older woman and the
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: younger man, and like Stella has been conditioned to think
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: like this isn't okay, Like what am I doing? And
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: then Winston's just like I don't give a ship like
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: I love you, um so, but yeah, it's just it is. Yeah,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: it's just interesting. It's kind of just worth noting that
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: so much of their conversations or about there's a when
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: he's in the pool. He was like, say it a
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: three million times that way, I never have to hear
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: it again about how you're twenty years older than me.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: Like he keeps trying to get her to get it
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: out of her system because he's like, I don't care
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: as much as you do, and she's like, ah, but yeah,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: it's only because like she is a product of her
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: environment of like living in a society where people don't
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: deem it acceptable for older women to be romantic prospects
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: or to be sexually viable, even though Angela Bassett is
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: the most beautiful woman on the planet, Like I want, okay,
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I have six years to get to like she's forty, right,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Like someone's like, you look good for forty, she looks
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: good for all time, And I have six years to
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: get to that level if I'm going to meet Like
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: my mental projection of what forty looks like it is
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: in fury. I just Angela Bassett to me all time.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Like if I if I would write a movie about myself,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: I would cast Angela Bassett as me today. I just
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: she's If you had the choice, you'd be like, yes,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Angela Bassett, I wanted to look like I can punch
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: someone in the face, like with barely moving my fans,
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: She's got the best, Like I just I love her
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: so much. Okay, skin is flawless. Her arms, her arms,
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: her arms, shoulder combination puts some Michelle Obama to shame.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: And it's glorious. Everyone in this movie is unconscionably beautiful.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Like it's just it's it's rude, It's just it's yeah,
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Like it's also I kept getting confused because I'm like
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: Angela Bassett and then also a character named Angela, how
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: dare you like, I don't do that? That's rude, passive aggressive.
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: But also I'm like, I guess you know, Terry McMillan
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: didn't know Angela Bassett was going to be in it,
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: but she should have should have. Yeah, the way that
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: people react, I mean, it's especially that scene with with
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Winston's mother where that was a scene I didn't like,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: where I know that Winston's mom is reflecting the judgment
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: of society at large on relationships where there's an older
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: woman and a younger man. But I also I didn't
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: like how anyone handled that scene really because in my head,
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: and I mean, I'm like, I who am I to
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: tell Stella what she should have done. But it's like
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: Stella has a young son herself, and I felt like
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: there was a meeting ground in that conversation where she's like, Okay,
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: I understand why you would worry about your son. I
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: also have a young son, but like, please consider that
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: your son is an adult and is making choice and like,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: but the framing of his mother is just kind of
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: like truly like a one line of dialogue shrew like character.
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: And then we don't even she's never discussed again, Like
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: it never comes up again. Who's paying for his medical school?
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: I just like, did they cut him off? After that?
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like it. And then after Winston, his
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: mom completely rails against Stella. She's like outside and she's
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: like I've never been more humiliated in my life. And
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: Winston's like, don't you think you might be overreacting? And
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: she's like, no, she said all these things to me
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: and then granted, like a few seconds later, he's like, yeah,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: that was out of line. I'm sorry, Like but he's
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: just like, I'm you're overreacting and it's like, um no,
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: she's not. Uh let's take another quick break, and then
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: we will come right back for a more discussion. Well,
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: something I just wanted to bring up briefly because just
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: for fear of sounding hypocritical, because depending on when this
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: episode gets released, we will either have just released or
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: are about to release an episode on the movie ghost World.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: And in that movie, there's a relationship between a an
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: eighteen year old girl and a forty one year old man,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: and I think is how those ages break down and
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: and the age gap is brought up more than which
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: I mean to give it the smallest amount of credit,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: at least the age gap is addressed. Where did in
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: that kind of relationship It wouldn't even be referenced, right
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: And then so in that episode, we took a big
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: issue with the fact that, like, this sexual relationship happens
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: between this very young woman and an older man, whereas
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: on this episode, I'm like, yes, Stella, get it, go
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: have sex of day digs who cares at these twenty
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: years younger than you? And I think that has a
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: lot to do with So if you're like Caitlin, you're
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: being a hypocrite. But in my defense, um, I feel
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: like it has a lot to do with how each
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: of these movies frame those relationships because the the age
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: gap in the kind of the ages of these characters
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: are all pretty similar between these two movies, but the
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: circumstances are different enough. Where thora Birch's character is still
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: a teenager, she's only just graduated high school, she's still
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: taking a high school art class, whereas Winston is not
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: a teenager. He's a few years older and more mature.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: He has finished college, he's in his twenties. So I know,
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I feel conflicted about this because like,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: on one hand, I'm like, yeah, Stella, like, go have
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: sex with Ta Diggs, And then I'm like Steve BOUSHEMI
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: get away from Thora Birch. Yeah, I think definitely, everyone
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: go back to that episode if you want to hear
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: more about it. I feel the same thing. I mean,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I think this movie, by and large,
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: I agree that Diggs is not fully mature, but is
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: more mature than thora Birch's character, and ghost World putting
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: one against the other I don't think really makes sense
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: because they're really different relationships, yeah, and really different characters
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: who are in different stages of life. But in any case, yes,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: there's a lot that I like. I I do like
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: that this movie addresses his age gaps and kind of
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: I mean in some that you could view as kind
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: of dismissive of the younger person, where it's like there's
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Coco pups in my bed, he wants to watch the
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Lion King here. There were a couple of things that
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: I was like, this doesn't feel consistent where it was
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: like the Coco pups in the bed. During the call
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: when he's like you should come back to Jamaica, He's
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: very serious until this weird it felt tacked on thing
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: where he's like and can you bring junk food? Like
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: the cocoa puss, Like all that stuff just makes it like, okay,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: you guys wanted to emphasize that he was young, but
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: like that that felt very tacked on for sure. Yeah.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: That that like I was like, what, he's an adult,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: he has a job, he has a biology degree. Why
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: isn't it And it's like, I mean, who among us
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't want us sometimes the Lion King? That's fair, I thought.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: The best the best way this was tackled was in
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: the movie theater scene where he wanted to see kind
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: of I guess like a movie that skewed very young
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: that was like she didn't she didn't think was good.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: And then they run into her gregnant sister and her
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: gregnant sisters like Judge has been in friends and they're like, oh,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: did you like that? The ending was so sad, and
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Stella was embarrassed to be like I saw this movie
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: for teenagers and they were like, oh, Stella, that's wild
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: to me that. Yeah, you know, like who would be like, oh,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: actually I didn't see like I didn't see Schindler's List.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: I saw my big fact Greek wedding. And then people
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: are like, wow, what's wrong with you? Like how you fall?
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Young people see serious movies and older people see movies
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: that are fun. Yeah, I think it was. It was
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: like it was just that they went to a comedy
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: and then her sister Angela was like, oh you saw
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: a comedy. Also, that scene is so weird because there's
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: this guy whose name either his name is Judge or
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: his jaw is that he's a Judge. I'm not sure,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: but he's Judge Red Judge Reinald is there. This is
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: the guy who Angela had previously tried to set Stella
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: up with before, who had called her. But then you know,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: it all fizzles out when she starts having sex with
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Tay Digs. But he's there and he seems to be
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: with another woman on a date. But he's like, Stella,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: let's get together sometime, let's go running, and and she's
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: his date is framed to seem very frigid, but I'm like, no,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: she's totally right. Like he's he's asking another one out
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: in front of her when he's on a date with
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: this this other woman. Weird. Um, yes, weird. There's there's
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: a few other really silly scenes to me, the four
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: play scene where like Winston like tries to flirt with
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: her by like putting ice on her back, and then
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Stella like freaks out and he's like, oh, I'm going
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: to go to the bathroom. And then when he comes back,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: he sees what I guess she had like deliberately like
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: made it so it looked like she was lying in
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: the bed all covered up completely still, and he's like, well,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: I better take off my clothes then, and then she
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: pounces on him from behind and then it's like all
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: flirty again. I was like, I'm not sure whose four
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: plague goes like this and if it's effective and if
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: it works for you, fine, but I was just like,
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: what is happening. I definitely felt that is a thing
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: that he read in a book or a magazine, like, oh,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: you gotta try this sex move, women love it. And
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: when he did that, and she's like, I swear to
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: God you ever in your life. Also, this is a
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: question that you guys probably asked later, But like, I
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: know very few twenty year olds now who would have
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: the confidence to be like, Hey, you're a lady and
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: I like looking at you, and we should hang out
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: more even though you're a stranger, and I will continue
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: to hit on you even when you say you're not
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: sure about the relationship. I feel like the twenty year
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: old guys I know right now have a hard time
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: even with the first part of that. I have never
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: spoken to a twenty year old since I was like two,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: So I'm I don't know how they are right now.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what they're like. There's I mean, I think, yeah,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: for this, it's tough because it's like I want to
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: say one thing, but it's like I also, you also
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: need to contextualize it very carefully, because I do believe
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: for this relationship to make sense in the movie, you
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: have to have some sort of suspension of disbelief. But
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: when I say that, I'm not saying that relationships with
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: age gap require suspension of disbelief. It's just how this
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: one is sometimes presented to you that you're just like, what,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: like things like why is he at this resort all
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: the time? Is that even allowed? It's like there's just
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of little things you need to suspend in
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: order for it to work where And there's kind of
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: like an equally loaded discussion that I've found around this
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: movie of this movie has on Rotten Tomatoes, which just
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: fully ridiculous. Um, and you can just I mean, we've
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: talked about it all the time, but there's so many
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: corny white guye reviews of this movie that are just like,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: I don't understand. It's not I want to see this good. Yeah,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: it must be bad since it wasn't made for me.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: It's the it's kind of the typical bullshit there. But
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: I saw a lot of reviews even current. Um, there's
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: like an A V Club article about this when on
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: the twentie anniversary two years ago, referring to it as
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: like a romantic fantasy, And I feel like fantasy is
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: a loaded term because it is fantastic plot wise that
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: this relationship works out. But I feel like the implication
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: there is that it's a fantasy for an older woman
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: to be cared about and desired and loved by a
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: younger man. So I don't like the way the word
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: fantasy is deployed in this movie, even though I fully
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: don't think their relationship is going to work for the
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: reasons illustrated in the movie. But that's that's why these
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: two people I don't think would be in a relationship
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: that would function. Not every relationship with an age gap
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: like this, Yeah, you know, it's confused. It's more to me,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: it's like, what are they compatible about. They don't seem
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: to have anything in common. They don't seem to have
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: that much chemistry. Like, yes, they're both extremely attractive, but like,
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: actually when they're on maybe maybe I just don't know
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: how to read chemistry on screen. But I'm just like,
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: do they even like what? I don't know? Um, But
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: the more important, I mean, they just they don't know
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: common interests. What are their interests besides making furniture for
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: Stella and having sex with each other and having sex
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: with each other? So I think sex. I guess I
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: would have just liked to see both of their characters
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: developed a bit more interest in terms of like what
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: what about them is compatible, which would really help me.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: I would I would be rooting for them more if
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: that were the case. Yeah, but either way, I'm still like, yeah, like,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: get into that shower, Stella with all of your clothes
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: on while Digs is naked. That I was like, wow,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: so a she Angela Bassett is one of the few
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: people who can look good while wet, like while coming
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: out of water and not looking like a dog that's
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: been like hit in the face. That's how most people
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: look when they are wet. She looks great when she
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: does it, so that's crazy. Second thing, she decides to
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: go to Jamaica, Like the next day they go to Jamaica.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: The type of braids that she have takes like ten
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: hours to do. So I'm like, bitch, what are you
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: talking about. That's not realistic at all to me, and
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: that She's just like, yes, I will get my hair
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: wet and okay, I right now have braids. These things
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: hold water like. You wouldn't believe that she's gonna fucking
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: a shower. And then be carried into her bed and
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: then funk. They're like, her bed is soaking wet. There's
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: water everywhere, there's a pool from the bathroom to her.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: It's a mess. There was not a towel in sight.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: I just this is the thing that I could not
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: disbelieve she suld. We see her get her hair wet
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: like three different times in the movie. She's always underwater.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: Very Wet movie. Yes, I think that is how people
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: describe this moving forward her groove the Very Wet Movie. Yes.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: I mean the poster is her in front of the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: beach um exactly after she goes into the shower with him,
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: which and she's also wearing all of her clothes. She's
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: like wearing a sweater and she's like, I'm just going
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: to step into the shower with you and we're going
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: to kiss, and then it cuts to like them in
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: bed and he's like, I think the implication is like
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: he has fucked her so good that she's crying because
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: there's like tears coming out of her. Oh. I thought
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: she was crying because she was confused. I think it
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: is like a last time we had like that, because
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: I've ever done this in a relationship where you know,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: this is the last time where you're like, this isn't
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: gonna work. We both know it's not gonna work. We're
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: gonna take this one last evening together. And then it's
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: like I took it as a like, well that was
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: the last of it. Cry that that makes way more sense. Yeah,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: I know she is crying because she's sad because they
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: she's like, we have nothing in common. Yeah. So when
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: I do think that this is to Caitlin's point that
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: they don't develop these characters enough. I think one thing
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: that a lot of black movies in the nineties have
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: to deal with is that you're trying to be respectable
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: to the point where like, what are her flaws? Like
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: that she likes work. It like they're very much so
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: trying to make her like Nope, she's not like a
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: single mom in the way that you think of a
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: black single mom. No, no, no, she's very professional. Okay,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: she's also dedicated. She's also athletic. She's got good God,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: we need to know she's athletic, and she has a passion.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: Maybe she needs to return to it. But like that,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: but like she can't have some of those depths of
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: character because she's so busy trying to like or the like,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: the people who wrote it, whatever, are so busy trying
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: to make her seem perfect and unassailable, right, And I
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: feel like that probably stems from black filmmakers trying to
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: correct some of the damage that's been done regarding representation
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: of black people in movies prior to this, because like,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: before this, it was, I mean, it was a lot
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: of really racist archetypal characters like you know, the Mammy's
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: and the Bucks and like really horrible and really damaging,
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: reductive troops like that. It was also black exploitation films
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: and those characters. It was black characters who were in
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: movies with predominantly white casts who were there playing characters
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: who were criminals or pimps or you know, just again
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: all the reductive, racist representations or just an absence or
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: a lack of black characters and media. So I feel
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: like black filmmakers in more recent decades have had the
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: burden of trying to repair some of that damage that
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: was done, of course by mostly white filmmakers with really
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: positive representations of black characters in their movies. And I
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: feel like it just kind of lent itself to some
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: black characters who were almost too perfect, who had no
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: flaws and tons of wealth and awesome jobs, like the
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: model minority trope. Like of yeah, because I feel like,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much from this generation of entertainment
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: that I mean that was I feel like, I mean,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: aside from Bill Cosby, Like that's a lot of what
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: previously a lot of the conversation around the Cosby Show
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: was was was like the first or one of the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: first major black sitcoms that was popular across everywhere, but
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: it was pulling from a lot of model minority like
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: this is a very wealthy, you know, class privileged family.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: But then that means like, then you just have the
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: like characters who don't end up being that well developed
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: or who feel just a little bit more kind of
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: stock character without any flaws because like which I understand
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: like wanting to write characters that way, especially based on
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: like the poor representation that had been seen in movies
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: prior to that. But yeah, and then it just means like, Okay, well,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: then Angela Bassett is perfect. Have any flaws? Did you guys?
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: This is a very specific reference, but there's an SNL
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: skit where they try to make a Barbie they make
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: an Asian barbie, and they like are trying so much
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: not to fall into stereotypes that they're like, she has
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: a chef's hat and a dog. That's it. We're not
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: saying she's a cook though, We're not saying what her
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: likes and interest are because we don't want. Like, I
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: haven't seen that, but that sounds pretty funny. It's like
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: a barbie developed by a focus group to like not
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: offend anyone. It's just she has a chef's head. That
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: that's the doll. That what you will, that's funny. I mean,
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: it's like it's it's such a frustrating thing to feel
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: like this movie is hung up on, but like, in
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: context of the time it comes up, I feel like
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: it does line up pretty cleanly with I mean, not
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: just the genre it's then, but like a lot of
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: the common tropes around black characters in the genre of
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, including I mean, including the other Terry
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: McMillan m adaptation we've covered, right, I mean, I will
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: say I like this movie. I saw it for the
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: first time this year with a bottle of wine and
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of cheese, and it was perfect as God intended. Yes,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: as a mid thirties lady. This is it was right
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: a shot straight to the I don't know basketball, but
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: like you get it, like a three point from that line,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: nothing but net shot. It was made for me. But yeah,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: it does have I'm like she she doesn't like get
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: mad or like have a problem of any Okay, right,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: I mean there are there issues with in the relationship,
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: but even so, the relationship is based on what like
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: what are they what are they like? What do they
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: have in common? Anyway? Yeah, man, it does seem and
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: and I do appreciate that he kind of realizes that
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: at some point and then we still get our kind
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: of irrational happy ending um, but he also kind of realizes, like,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: oh right, like I what am I doing? You know,
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: It's like I've really inserted myself in Stella's life, and
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: like what, I don't know, it's it's I do like that. Well,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: I do think, you know, all the characters are undeveloped
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: to varying degrees. I don't know why I'm defending this
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: movie so much. I really like it, Like they're less
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: underdeveloped than a lot of characters in this genre, because
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: like this is just the undeveloped genre where Winston. Okay,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: A choice that I thought in this movie that was
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: really cool is you get like a female gaye cinematography
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: approach to Taye Digs at first, though not for the
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: whole movie where it's not making the like how I mean,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: like how Megan Fox and how many like you know,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: conventionally attractive women are treated on screen, where it's just
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: like assumed, this is how we're gonna look at her.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: Where I feel like the cinematography choices in this movie
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: are cool because we are seeing him through Stella's eyes,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: So at first she's barely listening to what he's saying.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: He's talking about medical school, but it's a slow pan
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: on his body. But once she gets to know him,
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: you don't really get those shots anymore because that's not
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: how she's seeing him anymore. She's seeing him as a
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: whole person and like there is more to him than
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, and there's like he's certainly not He is
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: kind of like a spoiler rich kid who's figuring out
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: his ship in a lot of ways, to the point
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: where I mean, who can afford to just hang out
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: at a resort, like you know, yeah, those meals are
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 1: not cheap, No, I'm just like, and then he's always like,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: I have no money. I'm like until you text your mom,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: Like what he bought her like this heavy piece, like
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: this big piece of like equipment for her furniture workshop.
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: He also buys her an engagement ring, likes he pays
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: for that meal at that restaurant that he offers to
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: pay for, which was probably upward like easily over a
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars, Like he seems like he gets a stipend
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: from his parents or that's my that's my guess. That's
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: the only thing that explains it to me, which and
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: I get why, like is also like I'm not totally
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: comfortable with that, Like it all makes sense, but I
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: like that Winston. I think Winston is given a little
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: more depth and like layers to who he is and
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: the way Stella sees him and grows to see him
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: has more layers than most romantic movie couples. Yeah, um,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: quick note about the female gaze to just going back
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: to that really quickly. The way that this movie and
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of movies kind of frame the female gaze
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: or like the idea of the female gaze, which you know,
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: we acknowledge how heteronormative, like the male gaze and the
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: female gaze is anyway her like Stella seeing just like
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: looking at Tay Digs's character, and her eyes are lingering
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: on his arms and his lips, whereas like the male
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: gaze in most movies is like tits and ass. So
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: even like the like the kind of female counterpart quote
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: unquote of a gazey shot is still like more respectful.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, his lips and his like his shoulders,
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: and then it's it's a more intellectualized gaze. Then the
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: reverse it at least involves his face, you know, like
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: he's not a headless woman of Hollywood. Um, yeah, yeah,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: I mean it's I like, I I really like how
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: this movie handles female gaze because sometimes it's like when
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a one to one of like, oh
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: you don't like the male gaze, well then just have
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: the opposite, and it's like, well that's really what I
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: asked for, um, And I feel like this movie chose
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: that line pretty well. Where Like it's just it's fucking cinematography.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: Like in theory, if you're doing it right, it should
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: be reflective and tell you something about what's going on
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: in the movie, not just like catering to the bassist
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: aspects of your audience. Like, so in that way, I
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: feel like this is successful because we're seeing him through
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: Della's eyes. So yeah, because I have about Whoopi Goldberg
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: and how she they kill her in the movie, I
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: don't like it. I I don't know. And I was
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: curious about this because I don't want to if this
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: is if this is an aspect that was taken from
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: Terry McMillan's life, I don't want to minimize that in
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: any way. I wasn't able to find any information on
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: whether Delilah's character isn't any way pulled from her experience.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: So I'll just say that because I would hate to
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: find out that and that's so disrespectful. But if it
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: is a story choice, I don't like it. It is
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: so I think that that's like one of the lazier
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: things that this movie does is brings in what Whoppi
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: Goldberg to be the best friend and have, like even
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: for the best friend, have more to do than you know.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: It is normal, right, you get that. But then and
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: it is four shadowed in the movie because when she
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: says on the first trip to Jamaica, like she's kind
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: of just saying vaguely ominous stuff. I'm like, oh, no,
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: they're gonna She's gonna die, that's why. And and I'm like,
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: it's like sitting next to my boyfriend being like, they're
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: going to kill Whoopie Goldberg to teach Angela Bassett that
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: she needs to live in the moment. And that's literally
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: what happens. And they kill Whoopi Goldberg to teach Angela
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: Bassett she has to be in the moment. Why do that?
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Don't do that? I like Wippi Goldberg a lot. She's great.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: I yes, I love I do. I do appreciate that
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: the movie does dedicate real estate to both uh Stella's
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: relationship with Whoopie Goldberg's character and Stella's relationship to her
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: two sisters. I feel like a lot of romantic movies
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like The Notebook, where it's like, do
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: we meet any of Rachel mcgadam's friends or hear them talk?
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: Like you're just told they exist and they're in the background.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: Sometimes Yeah, there's like that movie is just like so
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: hyper focused on the on the romance, whereas like we
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: see like and then also like with with Stella's son
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: and like we meet her ex husband that dynamic, which
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: is like that too. I love that scene. It was
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 1: like her worst fear of, like having to show everyone
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: this thing that she does have some shame around and
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: everyone was flipping cool except Angela, Like everybody, yeah, They're
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: all like, hey, what's up, dude. Yeah, even her ex
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: husband is cool with it. Her ex husband and Tay
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: Diggs have that little seed together at that Diggs kind
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: of pushes back and it's like, why are you giving
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: me advice? Doesn't seem like it worked out too well
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: for you? Like that was great, very sweet. I really
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: loved that. Okay, a couple things I just want to
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: say real fast. Um, just Taye Diggs and his Jamaican
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: accent inconsistent, inconsistent, Yes, some and some scenes. I'm like,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: that sounds really authentic. I think he did a good
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: job there. I mean, I'm by no means next Jamaican accent,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: but it was also inconsistent enough that I was like,
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: that sounded very Irish then not Jamaican. Um, so I'm
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: not sure that he's doing a good job all the time.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: It seems to be. I I looked up some it
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: seems to be a pretty popular opinion that the accent
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: is U is perhaps good. God, I think that you know,
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: you can be a great actor and probably just maybe
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: not do an accent in a role. See keianu Reeves,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: see Brad Pitt. There's a lot of actors that we
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: love who just have never done an accent successfully well,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: but then they're there. Are actors like a friend of
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: the show, are King Alfred Molina who masters all the accent.
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: He does every noone even knows he's British. He's British,
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: He's British. Rash what yeah, that makes him that? I
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: get it now, Jamie. I was questioning this for a
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: long time. Now that you tell me that is British,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: I'm into it. It's a game changer, it really um.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: I like that white people are cast in this movie
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: the way that black people are cast in most mainstream
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Hollywood movies, and that they are barely there. They're mostly
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: in the background. They have very few lines of dialogue.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: I think Victor Garber is the only white person who
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: says anything which name and lines of dialogue um isaac visibility. Also,
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: Victor Garber is not credited in the credits of this movie,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: he's not. And then I checked on Wikipedia and it
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: says Victor Garber uncredited. I'm like, damn, the year after
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: Titanic uncredited this business. I think it's worth just briefly
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: noting that they're okay. So they're two characters named Jack
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: and Buddy, who um Delilah Whippi. Goldberg's character is like
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: trying to hook her and Stella up with, and they
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: their whole thing is like, look how unappealing they are.
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: But the things that are done to make them seem
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: unappealing is that one of them has a stutter and
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: the other one is kind of chubby, So just some
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: needless body and speech impediment shaming. So, you know, not great,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: but yeah, for a movie coming out in night, there
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: weren't that. I mean, that was kind of the only
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: like really sort of like reductive thing that I noticed.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: I like, the Buddy had enough confidence to take all
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: of his clothes off at that pajama party, Like I
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: was honestly scandals. I was like, if I was invited
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: to a party and then everyone's tips came out, I
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 1: would be furious that I was not warned that this
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: was a tip they should have been a written that
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: I might. Yeah, you have to tell me. I have
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: to get the tips ready if I'm supposed to just
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: throw them out there, you know. So that I was like, Ow,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: he's you know what, he loves himself and he loves
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: his body, and I like that that to being show.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's true. Um Any does anyone have anything else
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: they want to say about the movie? Let's see. Yeah,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: Justice for the Lilah. I like that we knew what
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: just going off of your common and about how we like,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: not only do we know Stella support system, we also
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: know at least a little bit about them. Um and
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: the movie in ways that it's just like every movie
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: could do this. We see what people all burg at
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: her job and you're like, I know something about her. Wow.
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: Her job is to stuff Calvin Klein mannequins who are
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: wearing underwear, make them seem like they have bigger dicks.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: She's a high paid mannequins stylist. Baby, and I that's
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: a fun, rich person job in a movie. Love it?
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: Um Oh. This movie was directed by I wanted to
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: bring up some behind the scenes stuff. This movie was
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: directed by a black director, Kevin Rodney Sullivan. Who I
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: had a lot of fun learning about because he's had
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: kind of like a fun career where he started as
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: a child actor and then he grew into a writer director.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: He has mostly been directing TV, but like he's directed
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: every big TV show. He directed Thirty Rock episodes, he
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: directed Modern Family episodes. He's directed and c I. Yes,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: he's directed How to Get Away with Murder, He's directed Riverdale.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: He's like a big shot TV director now and and
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: directed this movie. So he's great. Another person I had
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of fun learning about was the editor of
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: this movie, a black editor named George Bowers, who I
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: recommend you you just kind of dig into his life
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: because he was also a filmmaker and he sounds like
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: he was a really cool experimental filmmaker as well. Um, so,
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: there is not a ton of women behind the scenes
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: of this movie. Aside from Terry McMillan getting the co
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: writing credit. There's a female produced, sir. There's a couple
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: of female producers, if I remember correctly, there's a few.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I was honestly like, I
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: wish that a black woman had been the director of
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: this That said Kevin Rodney Sullivan seems really cool. And
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: there's I saw. All I'm looking at is I'm seeing
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: one producer credit and it's a lady named deb Brush Wendler. Yes. Um,
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: and then I'm seeing a couple. Um. Terry McMillan was
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 1: also an executive producer, as was Jennifer Ogdenden. Um, don't
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: know how to say it. Um So a couple of
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: executive producers are women's good? Yeah? Um so yeah, I
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: think just taking a look at the behind the scenes
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: stuff is good. This movie was reviewed in a very
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: pointed way because there were simply very few, uh black
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: reviewers and female reviewers that we're working at this time.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: So it's just kind of the classic like this movie
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: isn't about me. I don't get it. No stars kind
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: of thing. Not no stars, but like it's just very
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: passive aggressive reviews. Um, I don't know. Yeah, I think
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: that's all I got. I really like this movie. My
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: favorite exchange is when Stella and Winston first meat and
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: he's just as good morning, and she replies with are
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: you a rapper? Like that's the first thing she says.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: You're like, I'm trying to get from a to be here,
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: but I just can't like okay, I mean maybe she's like, okay,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: a subcategory someone that would be eating at a resort alone. Yeah,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: is that? I'm like, what, Like, he doesn't necessarily I mean,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: what does a rapper look like? But he doesn't necessarily
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: look like a rapper. No, he's just eating at a
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: resort alone. Yeah. I didn't even think about that. But
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: that's a weird as I would be like, cool, so
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: you don't want me to bother you, okay, but like
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: that would be the end of the Wow, that's a
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: weird ass thing for you to say. Okay, But she
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't even say like hello or good morning back. She
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: just he was like, good morning, are you a rapper?
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: Like it's just like uh no, um I will I
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: I deeply love and this is something. It's something so
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: nineties and like embedded in my heart. A sex scene
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: where there are gauzy white curtains fluttering in the wind.
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's so important. I love it so much,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: where they payan to them and they're just gently moving
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: and like only one is because that's where the fan
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: that the designer is like pointed at the Yeah, oh
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: it's I don't even know if these ones were esteemed.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you can still see the wrinkles from where they
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: took it out of the packaging. But man, the gauze
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: perfect very really adds a layer of sexy to the
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: to the scene Caitlyn, I just I just want that
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: she has such good sex that she cries. That made
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: me laugh so much. I just like, why is she crying?
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: I don't understand human emotion? Okay um. I guess my
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: final thought would be that this feels pretty tropy for
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: like any kind of romantic movie. But at the beginning
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: of the movie, Stella is like, I don't care about
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: meeting a man. I don't need a man. Uh, this
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: is actually an exchange I really like where she and
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: her sisters are getting pedicures or they're they're at a spa.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: They're talking and then like they annoy her, so Stella says,
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: don't talk to me for the next two hours five
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: seconds pass and then Angela, her sister, is like, you
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: need a husband and your son needs a father. He's like, whoa,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: and then Stella says. Stella says, had one got rid
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: of him? So glad I did. And then she's like, also, like,
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: my son has a father. His name is Walter if
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: you remember him, you know him? Yeah, And then and
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: then she's like, you know, just because Kennedy, which is
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: an Angela's husband, just because Kennedy produces, directs and stars
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: and all three acts of your drama, don't fool yourself.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: Every woman doesn't need that kind of guidance. So she's
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: basically saying like, I don't need a man, and that's great,
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: but that is also like rom calm code for she's
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: going to end up with a man by the end
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: without question. Well, yeah, I guess it's I guess we
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: haven't brother. Yeah, there's definitely I think because of the
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: time in the genre, there's definitely echoes of like IROLLI
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: like nineties girl power, where it's like I don't need
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: a man, I just need a man, Like you're just like, ok,
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 1: I just haven't met Tay Digs yet and looked at
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: his arms. And suddenly as soon as that happened and
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: I find out he's not a rapper, then I also
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: when the movie ended, I was just like that. I
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: was like, what a confusing day for Quincy her Son
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: the because he has just been told like say goodbye,
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: You're never going to see this man again and then
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: guess what, he's your stepfather and he lives with us.
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: Good night, Like oh my gosh, yeah, I wouldn't trust
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: adults after that messy I know. Yeah, that's like all
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 1: in the span of like however long it takes her
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: to drive to and from the airport, they didn't act.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: Remember how he just left to move back to Jamaica.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: Well he's back and we're getting married. Yeah, and then
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: she would be like, oh, you misunderstood, like she could
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: just like gaslight him into being a no, no, no,
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: you misunderstood. He is actually your stepfather. Now Quincy has
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: to get his groove back in like the sixth grade
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: or however, I do love that as a movie in
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: the way that they did like a fuller house and
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: a girl's world, just like how with like the kid
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: gets his groove back. Yeah, he's such a sweet character.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: He is. And he makes her breakfast. So we see
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: a young boy cook a young nurturing son. Yeah, and
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: he's like, I want to do something and he tells him.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: He's like he's like, mom, I just want you to
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: have fun while I'm gone, and like he really did. Oh.
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: I just love their relationship and I like that you
• 1:35:11
  Speaker 1: do get to see uh, and that like a a mother,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: like is a character who is like romantically viable because
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: like I think a lot of movies will be like, oh,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: you have a kid, well then see uh yeah, I
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 1: mean forty year old woman being romantically virable, viable, a
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: mother being romantically violent. Like, there's so many I don't know.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to defend this movie to the end
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: of time. Scene between them at the airport at the
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: beginning made me, Karry, I loved it where he's just like, now, Mom,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: I want you to take care of yourself and I
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: care about you and you're the best mom ever. And
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: she's like, I'm going to go to Jamaica. You're like,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: all right, I guess I'm gonna go and get dicked
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: by Tay Digs. That's what It's what my that's what
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: my son was on. He's also very cool with their relationship.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: Um okay, Well, does the movie pass the Bechdel test? Definitely,
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: and it's thanks to like the writing being careful to
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: include her sisters and Delilah. It does pass the duvern
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: A test, obviously far more handily than most movies. Movie. Yeah,
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: shall shall we rate it on our nipple scale, Yes,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: let's shall zero to five nipples, based on its representation
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: of women, and also just an overall examination of intersectional feminism. Um,
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: I would give this film contextualizing it knowing that it
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: is like a romantic movie, and based on that it
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: is going to be centered around a romantic relationship and
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: in this case it's a hetero romantic relationship ship. Knowing
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: all of that, I think I would give it a
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: three and a half or a four. Like just the
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: fact that you have you see representation of an older
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 1: woman being like worshiped and respected by this far younger man. Again,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: it's something that society was not deeming as acceptable. It's
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: something that other characters were not deeming as acceptable. But
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: Sell was just like, fuck it, I'm going to get
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: my groove back. Okay, this and then this is how
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: And I didn't even know that I didn't have my groove,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to get it back. And and it's
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: Winston Shakespeare is gonna give it to me. Um, And
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: so that and just yeah, like the the exploration of
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: her relationships with her sisters and her friend Delilah and
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: her son and different things to to characterize her the
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: fact that maybe we could have gotten a better understanding
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: of why they're in love with each other and like
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: what they're compatible about. But again, that's I mean, that's
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 1: like we said, it's pretty standard for the genre. We
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: we don't know why these people are ever in love
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: except that they are close to each other and they're
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: both conventionally attractive. But it's like, do we ever really know,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: like why j Lo and Matthew McConaughey were in love. No,
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: they were just hot and around each other. It's implicit,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: it's it's inherent to the genre. It's just hot and
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: around or my least favorite twizt I knew you and
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: I was a child, therefore I have to marry you
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: on yes, yes, yes, so yeah, Sorry, I was on
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: my nipple. Rating. Um, I'll give it, you know what
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: I'll give it. I think I'll do like a A
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: three and a half or four. I don't know what's
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: everyone else gonna do. I need other people's influence here.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna do probably. I will fully admit this is
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: partially just I'm rating with my emotions, but I want
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 1: to give it a four. I just feel like this
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: for the reasons we've discussed this movie doesn't do everything right,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: but there's so much about this movie that is First
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: of all, I mean, if we're talking about subversions in
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: the drama or to the genre, this story is pretty
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: engaging and like makes sense more often than not, which
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: is not something you usually get. I also, oh, something
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: we didn't talk about is like this kind of one
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: of the big inciting incidents in in this movie is
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: that Stella wants to like she's not embarrassed or like
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: ashamed of self care and like practicing self care, and
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: that I mean, that's a whole the whole practice of
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: self care can get kind of insidious and capitalism steeped.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: We won't go there, but on the surface level, I
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: think it is really nice that the first time we
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: see Stella not at work, she is, you know, like
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: having a relaxing day her sisters, and this whole trip
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: with Wapie Goldberg is self care and like readdefining herself
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: and just seeing women, especially not young women and especially
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: a black woman like prioritizing herself and being like, you
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: know what, I like even though and I thought it
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: was kind of a cool detail that she says she
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: wants to do it and then she's like, no, I
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: don't want to, and then her friend is like, no,
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: we're gonna go. Like that felt really cool. Um, you
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: just don't see movies like that very much, where it's
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: like a woman who's very for the most part like
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 1: without shame, being like I deserve this, like I'm going
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: to take care of myself, and you know, the internalized
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: shame and back and forth that comes with that is
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: a very real thing. And I like that it's addressed,
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 1: but at its heart, like this is a story of
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: like self care and prioritizing yourself and recognizing that you
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: can have responsibilities in life and not totally lose sight
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: of who you are. And I don't get your girl, yes,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: ge'ts your good. That's where the word groove comes into play.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: And I just I found that to be very soothing
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: and wonderful and nice to see in a movie for
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: all of the goofy problems that we um discussed, so
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: kind of for that alone, it's going to get for
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: for me. And and you just don't have many black
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 1: romance movies. And I like Terry McMillan, I like that
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: this is based on a true story, even though it
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: ends not like the movie, and yeah, I really like
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: this movie. So I want to give two nipples to Stella,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: one nipple to Delilah r I p and I'll give
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: one nipple to what was the niece's name. The niece
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: I was like, why is she here? Also tells whose
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: kid was that I think it's I think it's Regina
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: King's daughter. I was. I just it wasn't clear to
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: me which sister's kid that one. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: That's a legitimate question that I never thought about. And
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: she doesn't come back, but I'm like, there she is
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: because Regina King. Sorry, there's a jackhammer happening behind me. Um.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: Regina King refers to like waiting on what I think
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: is a child support check from like her ex partner,
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: and her name is Chantelle, if I'm not mistaken, Chante.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: I think it's Yeah, I think she is Regina King's daughter.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: Like one line that she gets, I thought she was
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: very engaging and funny for the one scene that she
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: is in. So she gets my fourth nipple. Good for her.
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: She said, Okay, it's really funny because it's the two
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: kids talking in the pool. Quincy is like, oh yeah,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: like Winston's a lot younger than my mom, and and
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: Shantell is like, well, how young And he's like not
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: quite thirty, which is like a decade off of how
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: old he actually is. But then Shantell says, oh, that's
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: not young, because thirty is not young. Everybody like, um,
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: so yeah, that was very funny. Um okay, so yeah,
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 1: I'll give it four nipples as well. Most of my
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: gripes with the movie are more like screenwriting based, you know,
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: like it could have been a half hour shorter. You know,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: there was some weird tonal shifts that I couldn't quite
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: make sense of. Um that I love Ta Diggs is accent.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: I give one of my nipples to him trying to
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: do to make an accent. I'll give to to Stella,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: and I'll give one to Regina King. I am going
• 1:43:33
  Speaker 1: to give it four nipples. One to the scene in
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: the shower where Ta Diggs but is very prominent. Angela
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: gets to be dressed the whole time. Um, so I'm
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: going to give one nipple to that scene in particular,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: One to Regina King because she deserves everything in the world.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: One to will Be Goldberg because she's very funny in
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: this way. That's like, hell, yeah, I hope that that's
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: the type of friend relationships I continue to have well
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: until my third forties. And hope. I mean, I don't
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: want to die and I don't want my friends to do.
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: But you get it. I want a good relationship with
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: my friends. That is what that nipples for. And I'm
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: going to say the fourth nipple two. Every time they
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: yell as a group at Angela, the sister who's a jerk,
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: I loved it. I enjoyed it so much. When they
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: would be like shut up, Angela and everyone's like, yeah,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: you should. We don't like you. It's like, yes, you
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: suck and your whole family knows it. Yeah. Stilla goes
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: over to her house to be like, you disrespected my
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: boyfriend yesterday and I need you to apologize, and then
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: she does. She's like, I didn't mean to be rude,
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: Like I'm just looking out for you. Aren't you worried
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: about this? I liked that you get resolution there. Yeah,
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: and so it's like, of course I'm worried about this,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: but like, you just need to be supportive. I'll be
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: the worrior here. So yeah, I did. I like that
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: little arc Canice thank you so much for being here
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: for being our again first ever fourth time guest listeners.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: Check out our Back to the Future episode on the
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: Matreon Oreo Royal episode on the main feed, as well
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: as an episode that is what did we name it?
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: It's like um something something in a discussion with Cannie Mobley. Anyway,
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: she'll be back for her jacket. You'll be back for
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: your jacket, I do. I I mean, if you guys
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: happen to have a velvet smoking jacket, I would never
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: turn it down, just so you know we you'll see it,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: You'll get it. Um where can people follow you online?
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: What would you like to plug? So you can follow
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: me online on all of the platforms at Kennie Mobley.
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: I just even made a TikTok because they said that
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: I had to. And it has no videos because I
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: don't know how to use that app. So either look out.
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: I will one day have one. Uh, it's gonna be great.
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: And I have my podcast which is called Love about Town. Caitlin,
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: you've been on it, Jamie, you were on Person about Town.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: But we gotta get bad for Love about Town. I'm
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: now co host of Complexit Hi complex Ifi on Vice.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: So check out all that stuff and you know, just
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: you know, keep your eyes peeled. I'm around, you're doing stuff.
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: Look behind you? Yeah right now? No, okay, Oh well,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: thanks again so much for being here. We always love
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: having you. Um. You can follow us on social media
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: at Bechtel Cast. You can subscribe to our patreon ak
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: Matreon and check out that Back to the Future episode
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: with Kinnis, and then you can do that by going
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: to patreon dot com slash becktel Cast. It's only five
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: dollars a month and it gives you two bonos episodes
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: plus access to the entire back catalog. And again sorry,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: if you can hear the jackhammer behind me, you can
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: get our merch on t public dot com slash v
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: Bechdel Casket all your favorite stuff. We also have masks
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: in the store now, so if you are looking for
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: a new mask to add to your dystopia collection, we
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: have those as well. Um yeah, well, everyone, let's go
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: and get our grooves back. What do you say? I
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: lost mine? Gotta go out. I lost mine. I need
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: to get my groove back. But too bad we can't
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 1: travel where were we supposed to do? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: I want to go to Jamaica. Alright, bye bye bye