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DELPHI MURDERS: EERIE "RITUAL" SACRIFICE-MURDER CLAIMS, CLASH OVER SUSPECT "CONFESSIONS" · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Delphi murders, Little Abby
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: and Liberty both murdered, the eerie ritual sacrifice murder claims.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: What is that a ritual sacrifice murder? Is that the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: defense and a mighty clash in court over the suspects confessions.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: you for being with us.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Abigail Williams and Liberty Germans set out to walk along
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the popular Delphi historic trail, but the two miss They're
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: appointed pitcup time.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: What happened to Abby and Libby?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Right now? Hearings are going on in that courtroom. And
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: joining us at the courthouse my longtime friend and Collie
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Susan Hendrix, journalist, author of Down the Hill, my to
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: sent into the double murder in Delphi. You may know
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: her from my old TV home hl M. Well here
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: she is now with us with the latest. Susan, welcome,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: what's happening. I'm hearing that there is a mighty clash
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: of the titans in the courtroom over alleged confessions statements
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: that the suspect made, and also the state is trying
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: to quash the defense that odonists, which are kind of
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: like they worship Thor and the Valkyrie. They're actually claiming
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: that they did it. I think it's a horrible move
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: by the state. In fact, if I were prosecuting this,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I would be mad if the defense didn't claim odinists
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: did the deed.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Really some heated moments, as you mentioned in the courtroom.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: What will be admissible, what will the judge rule on this?
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: What will be left out? But huge I'll start with
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: the confessions, the alleged confessions that Richard Allen made to
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: his wife Kathy and his mother, who by the way,
• 2:05
  Speaker 4: our front row there in the hearings, and he mouthed
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: the prisoner Richard Allen, the suspect, I love you when
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: leaving the courtroom. So back to the oness theory. There's
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: been several Frank motions and the judges yet to rule
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: on that, but that is where they're going. We're getting
• 2:23
  Speaker 4: a taste of the defense theory during these hearings. Will
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: it be admissible? And you bring up such a good point,
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: why not let it in? Because the one name they
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: do want in, which is one of the Frank's motions,
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: Brad Holder of the prosecution saying, look, he has an alibi.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: We don't want to allow this, but that does make sense.
• 2:42
  Speaker 4: Let them have their theory. If he has an alibi.
• 2:44
  Speaker 4: The jurors are going to see that. But several key
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: decisions have to be made after this week, and I
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: think it will give us an indication of what we'll
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: hear during the trial in October.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: On my first talk, we'll get to the oldest claim
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: that worse hers Thor and the Valkyrie, they committed the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: double murders. I'm going to get to that in a moment,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: But first, something that I understand a little bit better
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the legal concept of confessions and confessions. Guys joining me
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: in addition to Susan hendrickson an All Star panel is
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: Rich Schoenstein. He's a renowned trial attorney partner with Tartar,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Krinsky and Drogan. Rich. Thank you for being with us.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: He knows his way around a courtroom. Confessions, in my mind,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: come in all manner of modes. It doesn't have to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: be a videotaped confession where you get your Miranda rights
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: first and you're sitting there with your lawyer or like
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: you see on TV. It's not like that. Very often,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: a defendant such as this guy Richard Allen, the local
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: pharmacy tech, says to his wife on the phone from
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: the jail basically, yeah, I did it. Okay, that's the confession.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Rich Schoenstein, that's right, That's absolutely right.
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: You know, jurors have common sense, they apply their life experience.
• 4:11
  Speaker 5: They understand a husband talking to his wife. So those
• 4:15
  Speaker 5: words are to a jury perhaps more meaningful than something
• 4:20
  Speaker 5: he would say under police interrogation. That's him telling the
• 4:24
  Speaker 5: truth to his own wife. And you can certainly see
• 4:26
  Speaker 5: why the defense wants to keep out any version of
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: a statement like that.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, quick question, and remember this is ping pong, not
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: just I know you're used to standing up and making
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: all sorts of legal, comic complicated legal arguments. But what
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: about the claim? And I certainly don't want to give
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: the defense any ideas that this was a marital communication
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: protected by husband wife privilege, even though it was over
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: a jail house phone.
• 4:55
  Speaker 5: I think there might be some credit. I think there
• 4:58
  Speaker 5: might be some credit to that it is a communication,
• 5:01
  Speaker 5: It is a private communication between husband and wife. So
• 5:05
  Speaker 5: I'd have to look at local law on the marital privilege,
• 5:08
  Speaker 5: which I don't know in that state to really understand
• 5:12
  Speaker 5: if they have a shot at that. But he is
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: talking to his wife.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Rich I've got a way to defeat it. Okay, he
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: got a way to defeat it. Here. It is if
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: you utter a confidential communication, such as you tell your lawyer,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I did it. I'm up as creek without a battle,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: that's protected under attorney client privilege. But what if you
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: say it at a cocktail party and everybody's standing around
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: again to hear everything you say, You yourself by saying
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: it around other people have waived your attorney client privilege
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and you cannot claim that at trial. Same thing here,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: This is how I would defeat husband wife. He said
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: it on a jail house phone and everybody knows, and
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: there's a sign up there says these are being recorded,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: so he willingly gave up that confidentiality. That's how I
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: would attack it.
• 6:02
  Speaker 6: I like the argument.
• 6:03
  Speaker 5: You're absolutely right about a cocktail party. If you say
• 6:06
  Speaker 5: something to your lawyer in front of other people, there
• 6:08
  Speaker 5: is no privilege. You've waived it because you've shared it
• 6:11
  Speaker 5: with people you don't have a privilege with. So I
• 6:14
  Speaker 5: think that's a pretty good argument. That the phone was
• 6:17
  Speaker 5: recorded and he knew that, and he didn't have any
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: expectation of privacy or expectation of a private spousal conversation.
• 6:26
  Speaker 6: It's a good argument.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're learning a lot about the emotions being filed. Guys.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: This is so critical because based on the outcome of
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: these hearings, what evidence will or not or will not
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: be presented in front of the jury is going to
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: be determined. Back to Susan Hendricks is joining us. Susan
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: is joining us from the courthouse steps. She's been in
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: the hearings. Explain to me the content of the alleged confessions.
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: Yes, with doctor Monica Wallery her name, who treated Richard
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: Allen in prison and she is key for the prosecution.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Will the judge allow her to testify during the trial?
• 7:09
  Speaker 7: And what specifically did she hear?
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: We are hearing that doctor doctor Monica Walla heard incriminating
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: statements from Richard Allen himself and maybe even confessions. So
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: as we spoke of confessions to the wife in the
• 7:23
  Speaker 4: jail house phone call, the mother in the jail house
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: phone call, now the doctor in the prison, will that
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: be admissible.
• 7:30
  Speaker 7: We'll see what the judge rules on this.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: I go out to Chris mcdona. He's the director of the
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: Cole Case Foundation, former homicide detective with oh, there's the video.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: There's the video that the girls took just before their
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: deaths of the perp walking toward them on that trestle bridge.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Chris mcdonnaugh worked over three hundred homicide cases in his
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: twenty five year career. He's a host of YouTube channel.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: In the interview room, is McDonough how insane does it
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: make you when you hear about legal classes in the
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: courtroom where evidence could very well be suppressed. The jury
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: may never hear about these multiple alleged confessions.
• 8:17
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that's from an investigative aspect, is very frustrating,
• 8:21
  Speaker 6: as you know more than anybody, Nancy. I mean, you've done.
• 8:25
  Speaker 8: This so long and you know the fact that this guy,
• 8:30
  Speaker 8: you know, we used to say confess here. This line
• 8:34
  Speaker 8: is recorded, right and when an inmate does that, and
• 8:38
  Speaker 8: then of course you have it with a jailer.
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: Potentially hearing it.
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  Speaker 9: And then add on top of that you have family
• 8:45
  Speaker 9: members who may have heard it. We can understand some
• 8:48
  Speaker 9: of that, but you would hope that the system would
• 8:50
  Speaker 9: work towards you know, the victims heare and relationship to
• 8:55
  Speaker 9: allowing that evidence in.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Somewhere you know. Jessica Morgan is joining me Forensics Jacksonville
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and star of a hit series body Bags. Podcast with
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, you have very carefully studied
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: the facts surrounding the actual murders wait for it. And
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: now the defendant, Richard Alan Richard Matthew Allen, is claiming
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: that his alleged confessions should be thrown out because he
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: was under quote mental distress when he confessed to killing
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Abby and Liberty aka Libby. Let's talk about what happened
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: to Abby and Libby?
• 9:53
  Speaker 10: Yeah, you know, kind of dovetailing with what Chris had
• 9:56
  Speaker 10: said there. Nancy. I'm fascinated by this aspect of the
• 10:01
  Speaker 10: of this confession depended upon you know, how you know,
• 10:06
  Speaker 10: down how granular he got with this, with this statement
• 10:09
  Speaker 10: that he made. It's one thing for somebody to say
• 10:13
  Speaker 10: I killed them, okay, but I wonder how much detail
• 10:17
  Speaker 10: is included in this, in this alleged confession that he
• 10:22
  Speaker 10: made to his wife, because that's that's a damning, a
• 10:26
  Speaker 10: damning bit of information. If he gets into the kind
• 10:30
  Speaker 10: of granular detail that we're talking about relative to this
• 10:33
  Speaker 10: very complex scene outdoors out there adjacent to this trestle.
• 10:38
  Speaker 10: How much information did he reveal about that? And is
• 10:41
  Speaker 10: it going to be reflected in what we're what the
• 10:44
  Speaker 10: jury will eventually see in these images, and they're going
• 10:48
  Speaker 10: to be absolutely ghastly because we're talking about these two
• 10:52
  Speaker 10: precious souls who were taken by sharp force injury, and
• 10:56
  Speaker 10: that has been plainly stated. We're talking about a knife
• 10:59
  Speaker 10: that was involved than this, and I think to a
• 11:01
  Speaker 10: great degree, perhaps this is going to be overkilled. There's
• 11:05
  Speaker 10: going to be mutilation that's involved with that, if I
• 11:08
  Speaker 10: dare use that word.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott. You can't just throw drop a bomb and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: then just walk away like nothing happened. That doesn't work
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: on crime stories. You just say mutilation. You think what
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that. I heard it.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: What do you mean by that?
• 11:23
  Speaker 10: I'll say it plainly. We're talking about perhaps to the
• 11:27
  Speaker 10: point of a partial decapitation here, Nancy. And you know
• 11:31
  Speaker 10: when you look at that in light of a crime scene,
• 11:36
  Speaker 10: you think about, well, what was necessary, I hate to
• 11:39
  Speaker 10: put it this way, what was necessary to take somebody's life. Well,
• 11:43
  Speaker 10: you know, it's not just it's not just sufficient to
• 11:47
  Speaker 10: merely stab one of these angels. Okay, that's that's not sufficient.
• 11:51
  Speaker 10: To this point, this rises to another level. We're talking
• 11:55
  Speaker 10: about what was done with the bodies afterwards and how
• 12:00
  Speaker 10: they were treated in this environment. And this is going
• 12:03
  Speaker 10: to be damning, absolutely damning, because the people in the
• 12:07
  Speaker 10: jury are going to see things there that they can't
• 12:09
  Speaker 10: even begin to imagine in their worst possible nightmares.
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Who murdered Abigail and Liberty. A suspect is called on
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: video with his menacing instructions down the hill.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: The outcome of these hearings that are happening right now
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: in a court of law will determine what evidence the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Delphi jury will hear and what evidence will be kept
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: away from them as if it never happened. Joining me
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: at the courthouse, well known journalists and investigative reporter Susan
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Hendrix explain to me what's being heard, what was heard yesterday,
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: and what's going to be heard.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: And we just heard Nancy Richard Allen say, guys, down
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: the hill. As you know, Libby was brave enough to
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: hit record on her phone and her grandfather Mike has
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: mentioned to me several times. Look, I think if she
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: made it home, she would have said, Grandpa, look at
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: this creepy guy on the bridge. Look what I've recorded.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: The defense does not want what's on Libby's phone to
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: be admissible in court. The reasoning they state is that
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: it was handed over too late in terms of discovery.
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: It'll be interesting to see if it's allowed in because
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: to me, this is what is going to convict Richard
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Allen if he is guilty.
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: That video that she was able to get.
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: And I'm sitting with the family members Nancy of day
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: one of the hearing. It's the first time I ever
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: saw Richard Allen walk in in person, and it was
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: very eerie to see him sit down. He turns around,
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: looks at me Becky, Libby's grandmother, and Libby's grandmother's daughter Tara,
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: right in the eyes and just glares at us and
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: continue to do that throughout the hearing. And I was
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: trying to get a read on him as I'm looking
• 14:11
  Speaker 4: at him sitting there. And part of the evidence that Baldwin,
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: the defense attorney, hands it over to the.
• 14:17
  Speaker 7: Judge, had the crime scene photo on half of it.
• 14:19
  Speaker 7: It's a split screen.
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: He's waving it around. I'm sitting here the family. I
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: could get a glimpse of the crime scene photos from
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: the attorney, and I heard Tara say to Becky, close
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: your eyes.
• 14:28
  Speaker 7: It's that excruciating.
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: But this is a necessary step before the trial, and
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: I know that these families have been waiting a long time.
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: To be here.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: But very creepy throughout the hearing, Richard Allen turning around
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: staring me directly in the eyes.
• 14:42
  Speaker 7: It doesn't move his gaze. It was something I've never
• 14:45
  Speaker 7: seen before.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: How dare he turn around and look at you and
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the victim's families and just glare at you. And he's
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: probably glaring at you because you're sitting with the I mean,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: you know what, Chris mcdona, how many times in court
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: you're a veteran homicide investigator have you been in court
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to testify you got to murder, much less double murder
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: of teen girls allegedly sitting there, They usually won't even
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: meet your eye. But to turn around and glare at
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: you in open court, that's a whole other level right there. Yeah.
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, And the fact that he allegedly is a child killer,
• 15:31
  Speaker 6: that in of its shelf. The It just gives you
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: a little insight into potentially, you know, what the victims
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: were seeing themselves that day at his hands, and the
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: fact that the weapons there are two weapons here potentially
• 15:47
  Speaker 6: you know they remember they found this round underneath one
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: of the victims as well as a knife. You know
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: what Doc Morgan was talking about earlier, the viciousness and
• 15:56
  Speaker 6: the brutality of that personalization by using that type of weapon.
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: Now you add that to children. I can understand why
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: the defense does not want him in the Department of
• 16:09
  Speaker 6: Corrections corrections right now. They'd rather have him in a
• 16:13
  Speaker 6: better spot, i e. In the jail.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, yes, Chris McDonough because obviously he can't control himself. Okay,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: let me throw this out there. Who would be the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: best you know what? Let me go to you, Joe Scott,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: and then I'll follow it up with Karen Stark. Joe Scott,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: you have been in court with a lot of killers,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: right because you're a death investigator. Have you ever been
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: on the elevator. Let's just pretend in the courthouse somebody's
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: standing right next to you, and does anybody turn around
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: and look you right in the eyes on the elevator. No,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: they don't. Has that ever happened to you? And if so,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: how did it make you feel?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 16:51
  Speaker 10: It's certainly even someone like me that's seeing the thing
• 16:54
  Speaker 10: or two, you know, it creeps me out certainly. Uh.
• 16:58
  Speaker 10: And the idea that that the stone cold gaze, that
• 17:02
  Speaker 10: he would sit there and stare, stare at the family
• 17:06
  Speaker 10: in particular and Susan as well, but sit there U.
• 17:10
  Speaker 10: And this goes to another piece, Nancy, the idea. You know,
• 17:14
  Speaker 10: Chris had mentioned this round that was found at the scene.
• 17:19
  Speaker 10: He has, in my estimation at least, uh, this thread
• 17:22
  Speaker 10: that runs through him of what I refer to as menacing.
• 17:27
  Speaker 10: That weapon. The firearm was used I believe as an
• 17:31
  Speaker 10: instrument of menacing with these children. It's the idea of
• 17:34
  Speaker 10: taking that firearm and moving that slide back to racket
• 17:40
  Speaker 10: like this, And everybody that's ever watched the television show
• 17:44
  Speaker 10: is familiar with that.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: These children that would have.
• 17:47
  Speaker 10: Been there would have been menaced by that. And I
• 17:50
  Speaker 10: think that this is a further continuation of him glaring,
• 17:54
  Speaker 10: leaning in, glaring and holding a gaze. It seems to
• 17:58
  Speaker 10: be a pattern to me. I don't know, I mean,
• 17:59
  Speaker 10: that's kind of Karen's area. But for me as an investigator,
• 18:03
  Speaker 10: that's putting two and two together.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: You know what you're saying about racking the shotgun. I
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: don't know if you remember Rifleman. It's an old black
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: and white show.
• 18:11
  Speaker 7: I was just a.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Little little girl, and I remember my brother, my older brother,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: would have it on Rifleman and at some point he'd ratchet,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: and I didn't even know what that meant. But it's
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: like hearing a rattlesnake or a gun shot. You never
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: forget it. When you hear it, you instinctively know something
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: is very wrong.
• 18:36
  Speaker 10: Yeah, it has a very distinct pitch to it and
• 18:38
  Speaker 10: the sound the mechanism itself when that slide goes back
• 18:41
  Speaker 10: on that weapon, and we do know that, I believe,
• 18:44
  Speaker 10: if I'm correct, it was a six hour that he had.
• 18:48
  Speaker 10: When that thing is racked back, it has a very
• 18:51
  Speaker 10: definitive sound to it, that round is ejected, and of
• 18:54
  Speaker 10: course he forgets about it apparently at that point time
• 18:58
  Speaker 10: and leaves this behind. Yeah, well there you.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Go, technical legal term idiot. Hold on, Rich Schoenstein. You're
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: a veteran trial lawyer. Aren't you supposed to school your
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: clients about how to behave in the courtroom. I mean
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I always see defendants, murder defendants, drug lords, rapist, child
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: molesters come in court looking like they're a Wall Street banker.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I'm like, who is that? Do you remember? Let's think
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Scott Peterson. I would watch him walk into court every
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: morning like the football quarterback. He'd be all puffed up
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: in an awesome suit, looking great. I didn't think he
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: looked great or handsome, but other people did. Who else,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, Menendez brothers. I'm hearing it in my ear. Yeah,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: the Menandez brothers come into courtroom looking like their freshman
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: at Harvard, and they have their defense attorney picking lint
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: off them and petting them in court. You know what,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: stop and Ted Bundy looks charming in the courtroom. It's freaky,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: but their lawyers had them schooled. This idiot turns around
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: and glares at the victims' grandma and Susan our Susan
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: Hendricks glares at her in the court of Oh. I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: hope he does that to the gurrrs. I just hope
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: he has not been school showing sane.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: No, not at all. And you're absolutely right. You got
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: to teach your defend in how to act in court,
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: because whether he testifies or not, and this guy's not testifying,
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: so forget about that. He's going to be watched every
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: second he's in that courtroom. The jury's going to have
• 20:42
  Speaker 5: their eyes on him. They're going to see how they act.
• 20:45
  Speaker 5: And the bottom line, Nancy, is if they think he's creepy,
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: if he acts creepy, he's in big trouble because this
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: is the creepiest crime imaginable, killing two young girls in
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: the middle of the woods hoods. And if the jury
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: sees him and thinks he's a creep it's going to
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: be so much easier for them to convict him. And
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: if I was this guy's lawyer, I would be working
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: with him on that extensively.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, and what about oj Simpson? May he rot Hill?
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: He would sit there in doodle the whole time. Hey, Karen,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: start this is a visceral thing. How you don't stare
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: at somebody on the elevator. You ever been in a
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: restaurant and you look over and somebody's just staring at you,
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: so you don't look back, and then when you do
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: look back, they're still staring at you. There's something weird
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: and awkward about that? Did you hear what Schoenstein just said.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: He's a veter on trial lawyer, and he's right, how
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: do you hide your creepy in court? This guy can't
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: hide his creepy. He's gonna have to look down and
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: write notes like Simpson wrote, I did it, and you
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: know whatever he was drawing over there. And also another thing,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: Karen start, well, I've got you. It's visceral. Remember we've
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: been told when you're going to go feed an animal
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: at the zoo or in various encounters, you don't look
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: them in the eye because they perceive that as a
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: sign of aggression. Okay, I'm just speaking frankly and plainly
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: to you as if I would tell a jury. I'm
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: sure there's all sorts of gosh, what can I say,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: mental and psychological analysis of what I'm saying. But the
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: fact that this guy turns around and eyeballs in an
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: alarming way, a menacing way, Susan Hendrix, She's just sitting
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: there with the grandma for Pete's sake, and looking at
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: the victims family like that. It's wrong. Okay, help me out.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Give me the psychological term of what I'm trying to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: tell you.
• 22:47
  Speaker 11: It's nonverbal behavior in Nancy, and we have to watch
• 22:50
  Speaker 11: that nonverbal behavior because Asseph Scott said, this is menacing.
• 22:56
  Speaker 11: And unfortunately, if you think about these two little girls
• 23:00
  Speaker 11: with this man who's daring in the courtroom, he's boldly
• 23:05
  Speaker 11: staring and yes, you want to have eye contact under
• 23:09
  Speaker 11: certain circumstances, you're taught not to look away. But this guy,
• 23:14
  Speaker 11: he has no shame. He's he actually wants to come
• 23:18
  Speaker 11: across this way, like I dare you to condemn me.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: Twenty four hours after Abigail and Liberty go missing, their
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: bodies are found beneath a train trestle. Chilling phone video
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: reveals the suspected killer.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Aside from his creepy and menacing, stars right at the
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: family of Libby and Abby off when I think about then,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: they're just two little teen girls. And from what we hear,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: there may be evidence that this thirteen and fourteen year
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: old litle girl were actually mutilated. Mutilated by who, according
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: to prosecutors, the local pharmacy tech. I mean, how many
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: times do you think he saw them come in and
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: out of the pharmacy and then the bullet that was
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: cycled through the gun. You heard Joe Scott describing racking
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the gun. That bullet fell, according to the State, near
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: the bodies, an idiot aka the defendant, Richard Matthew Allen,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: aged fifty one, left it there. Now, just think about it.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: For so long, details about the crime scene were kept
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: under wraps, and I've got to hand it to l
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: E law enforcement that that didn't come out because they
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: later pursue it to warrant. I would like to add,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: because Schoenstein's listening to me, pursue it to warrant. They
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: go into Allen's home and they find the gun still
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: there because he didn't realize he left the bullet back there.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: It matches the gun in his home. That ballistics evidence
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: is so powerful. If what we're being told is the
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: evidence is actually true, so much happening in the courtroom,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: so much, guys listen to this.
• 25:19
  Speaker 12: The defense wants four sanctions. They want the court to
• 25:22
  Speaker 12: tell jurors the prosecution violated rules with a delay in
• 25:25
  Speaker 12: turning over exculpatory evidence. They want the judge to allow
• 25:28
  Speaker 12: the defense to play any video that was belatedly produced
• 25:31
  Speaker 12: without the state objection. The defense also wants to prevent
• 25:34
  Speaker 12: the State from rebutting evidence former Rushville Police Chief Todd
• 25:38
  Speaker 12: Glick provided on May first, twenty twenty three. And they
• 25:41
  Speaker 12: want to prevent the prosecution from using any data or
• 25:43
  Speaker 12: info from Liberty German's phone in evidence, Jerry presentations, my stars.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: What else do they want? A shopping spree at nordstroms Uh,
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: that's a lot. Hey, quick answer, Susan Hendricks. When is
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: the actual trial supposed to start?
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: It's set for October, Nancy, but as you know, it's
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: been postponed and delayed several times, possibly another tactic. But
• 26:04
  Speaker 4: it felt to me like it's going to go forward
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: in October.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: We'll see, So let me get this. They're whining that
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: they've gotten exculpatory evidence too late. It's hello, it's the
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: end of July, August, September, October, three months. You've got time. Okay,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: what else do we know? Listen?
• 26:25
  Speaker 12: The state wants to limit what the defense can mention
• 26:27
  Speaker 12: in front of jurors without prior approval from the judge.
• 26:30
  Speaker 12: Prosecutors have several pages of items, including personal attacks on
• 26:34
  Speaker 12: the prosecutor, any attempt to introduce evidence of third party
• 26:38
  Speaker 12: motive that is not relevant or would unfairly prejudiced jurors.
• 26:41
  Speaker 12: This includes mentions of Odinism, ritualistic killing, references to how
• 26:46
  Speaker 12: discovery was handed over, and any mention of an investigation
• 26:49
  Speaker 12: conducted by former Rushville Police Chief Todd klick O Dennism.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, I think the state is making a horrible mistake
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: right now, trying to suppress the defense theory an odinist
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: killed the girls. What am I talking about? Listen?
• 27:06
  Speaker 13: Court documents alleged that Abby Williams and Liberty German were
• 27:10
  Speaker 13: ritualistically sacrificed by members of a pagan Norse religion called Odinism.
• 27:16
  Speaker 13: The defense rights the bodies of both victims had tree
• 27:19
  Speaker 13: branches placed on them in specific patterns, and one had.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Small sticks in her hair to.
• 27:25
  Speaker 13: Resemble horns or antlers. Odinists are said to be enamored
• 27:30
  Speaker 13: with Viking culture.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, I just wanted to pause a moment. Let that
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: sink him that Odinists obsessed with Viking culture somehow infiltrated
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: this small, very sparsely populated area. The Oldness infiltrated and
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: then made two human sacrifices to the Norse god Odin.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Why in the world, Rich Show and statee would the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: state want to keep that out. I would be fighting
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: for the defense to please make that argument.
• 28:06
  Speaker 5: I agree with you, Nancy, and forget about how ridiculous
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: for a minute. The argument is when the defense stands
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: up there and says somebody else did it, they're taking
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: on a burden of proof that they don't need to
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: take on. The defense has no burden of proof. They
• 28:23
  Speaker 5: just have to challenge the sufficiency of the proof and
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: reasonable doubt. But if they make this a binary choice
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: between either Richard Allen did it or Odinists did it,
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: I don't see how that's going to help them at all.
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: I think that is biting off a burden that they
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: don't need to assume going into this tribe.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Well, there's more. They're connecting Odinism, they worship of the
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: Norse gods, to something much more nefarious.
• 28:52
  Speaker 14: Listen deciding what information the jury can be told a trial.
• 28:55
  Speaker 14: That is the purpose of hearings this week in the
• 28:57
  Speaker 14: Delphi murders case. In earlier court fight, links prosecutors requested
• 29:01
  Speaker 14: the court bar the defense from bringing up certain terms
• 29:04
  Speaker 14: from past arguments, like the odinism theory. The defense argues
• 29:07
  Speaker 14: the murders of Abby Williams and Libby Jerman were ritualistic
• 29:10
  Speaker 14: and done by Odinists, not Richard Allen. Odinists practice an
• 29:14
  Speaker 14: ancient Nordic religion, worshiping Norse gods such as Odin and four,
• 29:18
  Speaker 14: and some claim it's common among white supremacists prison gang
• 29:22
  Speaker 14: members in Indiana. The defense uses the Odinism theory appoint
• 29:25
  Speaker 14: to other possible suspects, and there we have it.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: The defense is using some hybrid argument of the sad defense.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Some of the dude did it. They're claiming it's kind
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of a mixture between the Viking worshippers, the oldness, and
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: white supremacists. So I guess you put that all into
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: the blender, boom outcomes your killer. Is that actually what
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: they're saying, Susan Hendrix Odniss kind of mixed with white
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: supremacists and that's going to consrupt this evil specter to
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the jury. Are they really saying that?
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: Absolutely? And well said Nancy. It feels like they are
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: looking for, obviously, some sort of reasonable doubt. Pick and
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: choose as you will, depending on how the judge rules.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: What I think is most damaging is that Richard Allen
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: put himself on the bridge.
• 30:18
  Speaker 7: This was a day before what was on Libby's.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: Phone was released, So he goes up to an officer
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: that he knows, Stan Dulan in a parking lot of
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: grocery store and says, hey, I was down there at
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: this particular time. I didn't really see much. Fast forward
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: to almost six years later, more than six years and
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: allegedly we don't know the details of exactly what led
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: to Richard Allen, but supposedly they went back through the
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: files and found that guy that put himself on the bridge.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: A day later after the murder's Libby's cell phone evidence
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: came out.
• 30:50
  Speaker 7: I think if that came out earlier, he wouldn't.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Have gone up to Dan dulm and said, hey, I was.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: There who murdered Abigail and Liberty. A suspect is called
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: on video with his menacing instructions down the.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Hill from trying to suppress cell phone data. I assume
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: that cell phone from the little girl victims themselves, or
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: maybe it's cell phone data from the defendant Richard Allen.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: From that to suppressing alleged statements confessions to the shrink,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: to his wife and in front of jailhouse guards and inmates.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: Good luck with that. Two claims of not only some
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: other dude did it that being Viking worshipers, but also
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: now the defense is roping in a white nationalist group. Listen.
• 31:51
  Speaker 13: Attorneys for the suspect, Richard Allen, filed documents saying that
• 31:54
  Speaker 13: their client is innocent and that members of a white
• 31:57
  Speaker 13: nationalist group are the ones responsible killing the teenagers as
• 32:01
  Speaker 13: part of a quote ritualistic sacrifice. The defense said the
• 32:06
  Speaker 13: group had a motive because the girl's parents was dating
• 32:08
  Speaker 13: a person of another race. Attorneys also requested the immediate
• 32:12
  Speaker 13: transfer of Allan from the facility where he was being held.
• 32:16
  Speaker 13: They say members of the white nationalist group apparently work
• 32:19
  Speaker 13: there and are threatening his life.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Alan is claiming the oldness did it, the
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Viking worshippers, and that somebody whose name is a mystery
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: belonging to a white nationalist group, don't know which one,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: was angry because somebody related to the victims was dating
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: somebody of a different race and they were that angry.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Instead of taking it out on the somebody's dating, they
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: decided to kill and mutilate two little girls. That's the
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: defense theory. Okay, please go with that, Richard Allen, Please,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I beg you argue that at trial, nothing can make
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: me happier. And I say, Richard Schoenstein basically gnashing his
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: teeth and twisting his tail right now, because that is
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: doom for the defense.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's a really tough sell because the theory
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: doesn't fly just when it comes out of their mouth.
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: First of all, is it odness or is it white nationalists?
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: Is it a ritual or is it because somebody was
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: dating the wrong person. I mean, they've got to pick
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: a theory and stick with it if they're going to
• 33:34
  Speaker 5: go down that road. So that's a problem. I haven't
• 33:37
  Speaker 5: seen that they have sufficient evidence to put this forward,
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: so I'm not really convinced they're going to go down
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: this road at trial. What they're doing now, I think, Nancy,
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: is they're trying to keep all of that available to
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: them at trial. They're trying to limit what the prosecution
• 33:53
  Speaker 5: can use. But I think we have to wait for
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: the trial itself to see what they really argue. If
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: they do go down down that road, I think they're
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: making a big mistake.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, there's any defense theories aside, let's talk about some
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: hard evidence. This is what the defense better be worried
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: about listen.
• 34:10
  Speaker 13: Police searched Allan's home and seized a handgun, which investigators
• 34:15
  Speaker 13: believe Alan used in the crime, and matches an unspent
• 34:18
  Speaker 13: bullet found next to the girl's bodies. About ten hunting
• 34:22
  Speaker 13: and utility knives were also confiscated, along with the blue
• 34:26
  Speaker 13: carhart jacket and other clothes. Investigators also took carpet samples
• 34:30
  Speaker 13: and swaps from the seat belts in Allan's Ford focused
• 34:33
  Speaker 13: vehicle that they believe was seen on the trail that day,
• 34:37
  Speaker 13: and Alan admitted in two separate interviews that he was
• 34:41
  Speaker 13: on the bridge that day.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: He says he went out on the bridge to watch
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: the fish. Here's a very technical legal term. I hope
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: you're sitting down. You may need to lay down for
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: this one. It's very complicated. It's Latin. A defense attorney's
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: love throwing around Latin terms on the elevator in the courthouse.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Of course, I could and be happier, idiot Susan Hendricks
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: joining me in the courthouse. Does Richard Allen did he
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: actually volunteer? Yes, that he was at the scene of
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: the double murders the day of the murders. Quote watching
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the fish from a trestle bridge. How tall is that
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: thing over the water? Who can see a fish down
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: in that muddy water? It reminds me of Ichikani where
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I grew up. You couldn't see a thing in it.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: So what he actually says, he's on the bridge watching
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the fish.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: Yes, and looking down at his stockticker as he's walking
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: towards the bridge, saying, oh, I was just there looking down.
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: Keep in mind, I know the panel knowses the voice.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: His voice if it is him.
• 35:50
  Speaker 7: It'd be sound guilty.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: Down the hill is in that footage on Libby's cell phone,
• 35:55
  Speaker 4: and I believe that's why they don't want it in
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: the courtroom. And I do want to point out I've seen,
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: as I mentioned, him glaring at the families and myself,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: but you never hear him talk. And I believe maybe
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: that's by design because his voice is on that cell phone.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: Will they want to compare that even if he doesn't testify.
• 36:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, I didn't even hear a whisper to his attorneys,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: And I was staring at him the entire time to
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: notice how he was reacting because he saw the prime
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: scene photos they were put down right across from him,
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: and I saw him push it away and glance down
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: for a minute, so I was watching his every move
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: and never did we hear him speak during the hearing.
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: So we'll see if that is why they want that out.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: That is so interesting, Susan Hendricks. You know, Jesscott Morgan,
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: that I ever tell you about my slew footed armed
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: robber who was also couldn't spell, and he gave a
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: handwriting sample. He could not help misspelling things, just like
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: it did the banknote, the bank robbery note, don't touch
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: the al ram. This is a robie. Did the same
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: thing in his handwriting sample. But he was also duck footed,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: slew footed, and when he walked up like that to
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: the witness stand, all twelve yer hours were hanging over
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: the jury rail. Some things you just can't hide. I
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: think Susan Hendrix is right. They don't want him speaking
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom because it's going to match to down
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the hill, Down the hill, And not only that, the
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: voice and the mode of walking. I think we have
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: a video of the perp, the alleged purp, actually walking forward.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: If he is caught walking in the courtroom, and there
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: is anything at all unusual but unusual or identifiable in
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: his gait. The prosecutor is going to seize on that.
• 37:43
  Speaker 10: Yeah, they will. And as you well know, one of
• 37:45
  Speaker 10: the things that we look for in forensics, people are
• 37:48
  Speaker 10: compelled to give exemplars of their writing. I really wonder, Nancy,
• 37:53
  Speaker 10: can he be compelled to give a voice exemplar relative
• 37:58
  Speaker 10: to this statement that is being made, that has been recorded,
• 38:02
  Speaker 10: And if so, have they done a voice comparison relative
• 38:06
  Speaker 10: to that? You know, while they have him here, do
• 38:08
  Speaker 10: they get a warrant to compare him, to compare his void,
• 38:11
  Speaker 10: to do a voice analysis on them, and also his gate?
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: And you know what else, he's not looking down at
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: a cell phone. I wonder if they've done a forensics
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: exam of his cell phone to determine if he was
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: really looking at the stock market ticker, Like anybody can
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: see that on a cell phone. I can't read a
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: darn thing on there. How can he read that little
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: ticker at the bottom of the screen. He's not looking
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: at his phone. That's a lie. We can see his gate.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Does he walk like that in the courtroom? Susan Hendrix
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: pointing out they're not letting him speak because it may
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: want it may match down the hill down the Hill,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: the girls caught on their phone, and I've just been
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: advised by my producer here in the studio, Jackie, that
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: bridge is sixty three feet tall, really conducive to fish watching?
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: Is it?
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: Delphi Murders Suspect Richard Allen claims he didn't do it
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: and that a pagan cult is at fault.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: It seems to me like the ballistics evidence is going
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: to be possibly the strongest evidence in this case. But
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: we don't know all the evidence the state is producing.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Susan Hendrick joining me at the courthouse, Susan investigative reporter
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and journalist. Any idea, Oh hey, the name of your
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: book Down the Hill, My Descent into the double murder
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: and Delphi? Susan, what do you think is the most
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: powerful evidence the state is going to bring out at trial?
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: And what will be the defense counter?
• 39:50
  Speaker 7: Absolutely?
• 39:51
  Speaker 4: And I think it has to do with the search
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: worm of his home. What did they find inside that home?
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: Was there any DNA on the jacket? Blue Carhark if
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: he wore that jacket on the bridge that day, Because
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: it appears the person on the bridge, fridge guy is
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: in some sort of jacket. I believe it's his voice
• 40:09
  Speaker 4: As I mentioned, I believe there's some evidence that we
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: don't know about, and of.
• 40:12
  Speaker 7: Course the ballistics, but.
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: Again Libby's video to be stands out, and of course
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: the confessions if they're admissible. But I think it's just
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: stacking up against him what the prosecution can and I
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: believe will use.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off good night