Latest / The Redeemed Backslider / Bible Quizzing Saved Me: J.J. Calvillo #TRB Episode 63

Transcript

Bible Quizzing Saved Me: J.J. Calvillo #TRB Episode 63 · The Redeemed Backslider

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to take a minute and make an appeal to you.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: We are almost at the end of our second year filming podcasts of backsliders and those who never knew the Lord who have come to the Lord in recent years to bring episodes to you on the Redeemed Backslider.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And up until this point, I have been funding the expense of these episodes, and I'm very happy to do that.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: The Lord has blessed me in my practice, and I have a burden for this ministry.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's just been a no-brainer.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the reason that I'm coming to you now and asking if you would prayerfully consider supporting this ministry is because there is more that we want to do to reach the backslider and also to reach those who still need to know the Lord.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as you know, we hosted our first unshackled conference.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was a conference for prodigals by prodigals.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone involved in the conference was a prodigal, including my pastor, and including all of the speakers.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we planned to host another conference like that and bring in even more speakers that are prodigals and those who have um a real burden in a ministry to the prodigals and to the families of prodigals because families go through so much while their loved one is not come home yet.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's other things that we are working on.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Part of that is um church assessments, church curriculum curriculum.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, many other things that I am doing in conjunction with some friends in Louisiana at High Hope Ministry.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And they also have a prodigal ministry that is a podcast, and together we are combining um our resources and combining our ministries to create a ministry that is specifically for churches and for families, and so there's a lot of time and expense in doing all of those things, but you know, prodigals go through a lot, um, as you guys have heard on this podcast, of trying to get back to the place in God that they want to get back to.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we're counseling prodigals, both of us are ministries, counseling prodigals that haven't come home yet, and doing other things, working with prodigals, but all of that takes time and resources.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you are a prodigal and you have come back to God, and maybe you're in ministry now, maybe you're not, maybe you're just happily serving the Lord, um, or if you're a family member of a prodigal, or if you just have a burden for this ministry, or if you have a business that you want to spotlight on this ministry, we could really use your help.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that, you know, that the economy isn't great right now, but I do believe that God blesses those who bless him and the people of God.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a giver, I give to a lot of ministries, and I know that's why God has allowed me to do what I've done to this point, but I'm at a critical point where we need to go to the next step.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you can visit our website if you have a desire to partner with us.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the website address is the redeemedbackslider.org.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a donation page.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: You can do a monthly gift, which would be great, um, of any denominational amount, or you could do a one-time gift, and you will receive at the end of the year um a letter with your gift being tax deductible because we are a 501c3.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to take a moment and ask if you would prayerfully consider partnering with us.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um we got to reach people.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I can say is we just have to reach people.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm doing this because I don't know any other way to do it.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the more resources we have, the more we can do.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: So um I just want to thank you in advance and thank you so much for praying for this ministry and for watching the episodes we put out.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um and I pray that God would bless you in your decision.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Redeemed Backslider with your host, Kathy Chestain, Christian-based psychotherapist and redeemed backslider.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is dedicated to those who have wandered but are ready to return to the life-changing power of grace and the freedom found in Jesus.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, welcome to the Redeemed Backslider.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kathy Chestane.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Christian-based psychotherapist and a redeemed backslider.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: With me today in the studio is JJ Calvio.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he has a great story of growing up in the church and backsliding like so many of us.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really happy to have him with us in the studio today.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, JJ, welcome.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the podcast.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I know that you said you grew up in church till about 18.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So can you tell us about your childhood?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so um I come both my parents were raised in the Catholic Church, born and raised in the Catholic Church.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um and my aunt won us won my mom first to church, and then my mom won my dad, and then I was born into the church.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: So um I we attended a Bundle uh Bund Life Center formerly first Pentecostal church.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I was under the pastor uh Ronald Abbott and then Pastor Bill Parkey.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that took you and and so you did Bible quizzing at that time.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I did.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I actually uh brother John Schmidt, who was one of our family friends, uh, it was the coach from Aurora Grande.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he had taught him and my parents were best friends, and they had talked about doing it.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom said, Hey, this is competition, you want to do it?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: I loved competitions growing up, and so I was like, sure, not realizing the entire full detail of what was going to happen.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I remember distinctly my mom said, Hey, if you do this, you can't quit.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, I've never quit anything, and this is just being something else we do, and so um halfway through the year, I was so ready to quit.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just um, I believe at that time we did 575 verses, and half of them which were were called Star Verses, which was uh versus you had to quote verbatim, and then the other half you just had to know the who, what, where, when, and whys.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so yeah, we we had to study every day.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom would be like, we go to school, come home, do our homework.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: After homework, we do our quiz verses, and then if there was time, we could go out and play.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: So um, about halfway through the year, I was just like, I'm over this, I don't want to do this no more.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is not fun, and that's kind of the same way it happens now, even with uh coaching now.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it gets to the halfway point, and you know, if you're not fully dedicated, kids just drop off, and and then it's called the halfway hump and for a reason.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And if you can push yourself through that point, then you can made it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't really have a choice to be pushed, uh, whether I want to push myself or not.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: My mom made us do it, and so I was angry, yell.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: I would just like purposely yell my verses at her, and totally not in the spirit of Bible quizzing.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, you know, I was 11 at the time, so I don't I'm giving myself a little bit of grace that I wasn't.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask you how old you were.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: You were 11.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, ma'am.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so um that's like the sixth grade.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but about 56th grade, yes, right around that area.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Discipline is difficult at that age.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and and focus is very difficult at that.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so she just said she kept doing she's like, You you said that you weren't gonna quit, and I'm not you and I told you you couldn't quit.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, Okay.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: So begrudgingly, I would learn my verses, and um it got to the point that at the end of the year I was thankful because she pushed me because we were so I could tell you a chapter, she would tell us a chapter, and then I could tell you in 30 seconds, I could quote the whole chapter in in my head and tell you how many eyes or ands were in the verse or in the entire chapter.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it was fun uh at that point, you know, when you know everything and you're just sitting there like you you've got the keys to the test, and you're just like, Yeah, I know the answer, I know the answer.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I was uh I was very blessed to have another quizzer with us, his name's uh actually he's a pastor, Reverend Joel Booker, um from um he's Rialto now.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he was really good at that time too.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so to combine together, we just had so much fun and um it was an it was an awesome time.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I really enjoyed it.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um to this day I feel like it's the foundation of things that helped me um study-wise, and uh like even with education, uh being able to like uh recall things and stuff like that, and excellent for memory, yes, memory skill, yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, and on and on the spiritual side, like not realizing then what I know now, yeah, like even though I was able to walk away, you know, twice and come back and got with the grace of God, um, I never forgot the scriptures I learned.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and when you reached out to me, what you said is you know, the Bible quizzing saved your life.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: It really did.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that's huge because the word is alive, you know.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And when we grew up, we didn't have Bible quizzing chapter at our church, but did Abundant Life have it, or were you doing this on the side with the Arroyo Grande Church?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then Arroyo Grande's church, uh, which I said, Brother Schmidt was my mom dad's best friend.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: He's the one who got us into it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then after that year, we actually had a program for a couple years.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I think it's great for kids.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: We we later had someone, Christy Martinez.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she she raised all her kids to do Bible quit, and they've won her and Blas have won a ton of awards.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: I've actually have got to coach Caleb for first, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, he's won a lot.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: We've won a lot.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um in 2023, we went to UPC Nationals and we took we tied for fifth.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and he was, I believe at that time, the second highest score in the nation.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: And our team was incredible, uh, one of the top, I think two, one or two um for projected and overall scoring for the entire tournament.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so funny enough that you brought her up and and her husband, brother Bloss, like they're a main reason, and I'll say Caleb C, but I I give um I get like sorry, I get kind of emotional when I talk about Caleb.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Caleb to me is the reason I'm in church.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's other factors that played a part in it, but he was the key, he was the cog, you know, obviously with God.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so I very well with the Martinez.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: As a matter of fact, I just had my uh 50th birthday um this weekend, and they were uh Bloss, thank you.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Bloss and Caleb came down, and uh Pastor Thorston, my old pastor, and just a bunch of different people came, and it was so much fun just to see.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and even my old quiz coach, Brother Schmidt, came down and he was like, Man, there's a lot of quizzers here.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, my life really evolves around Bible quizzing.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: As much as I tried to say, you know what, I'm done with it, I'm not gonna do it this year, I'm gonna retire.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just every year the new year comes on.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, all right, back to the grind, let's do this.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh JJ, did you quiz like so from the sixth grade?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: Did you quiz all through junior high and high school, or did you stop at some point?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I stopped about three years in.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that was part of the reason I stopped with that is there was a two part.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I got tired of being the only person who actually took it serious.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I I shouldn't well let me rephrase that.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't say that.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: It felt like it probably felt like it was the only person who took it serious, and I was super competitive, so losing to me was not fun.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and other people were like, hey, we're going to tournaments and we're having fun.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, uh, how's lifting fun?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just not having it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so that was part of it.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: And the second part of it was um we had I can't tell you the name because I can't remember it off the top of my head, but um, we had an evangelist come to our church and um and he prophesied over me and he said, You're going to be a pastor when you get older.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And to this day, I I wrestle with that.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm not a pastor, obviously.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just never wanted to be responsible for other people.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because as much as I try to run for responsibility of other people, God has continuously put me in positions to be in charge of other people.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Lord, what are you doing here?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't want to do this.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um because you know, my mom used to say, had a saying that, you know, when you point a finger at somebody, there's three pointing back at you.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, it's like I don't ever want to have to call somebody else out and then have four people or three people pointing their fingers, but well, what about when you did this or what are you about this?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so for me, it was just it was a scary thing, honestly.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I just and I figured, well, the easiest way, kind of like Jonah, just run away from it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I did.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: I just I said, Okay, quit.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to do this no more.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: You can't make me be a pastor if I quit.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you received that early in in your childhood, like yeah, like about a I'd probably say I was about 11 years old.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: When that happened.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, you probably know this now since you're 50.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but being a pastor is a position of love, it's not a position of rule, yes, you know, R-U-L-E, rule.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that, but I do think our generation grew up with some of that.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had great pastors in my church.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness he had lots of reasons to call me out, you know, in my teenage years.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: He never did.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: He was more silent than he was vocal, which was grace for me, because that really probably would have pushed me over the edge, which I was already falling.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, but now I think being a pastor is about loving others, and you could do that.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had somebody explain to me.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I had a pastor said, Hey, that you know the difference between a pastor and preacher, and I said, What?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Well, a pastor loves and a preacher teaches.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, You're about love, and he said, So that's what you're supposed to be.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it it's taken a lot, a long time to learn to uh love people.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um now I grew up and I know both my parents were raised in church, and I know that they loved me, but we didn't say I love you all the time.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I can count Do you think that was a culture thing, or do you think that was just a family thing?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think definitely I think definitely it was a culture thing.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I also think it was a family thing because the way my parents were raised, they that wasn't done with them either.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I it was funny because I was talking to one of my friends the other day, and I said, you know, I can count on both hands how many times I hugged my dad.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you know kids need that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and it's it's so it has been weird and it's dominated my relationships uh with the opposite sex, but it's also in general, like I work as a teacher now, and so you know, and I I love teaching TK, kindergarten, first grade.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: Those are like my favorite grades to teach.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And like those kids will be like, Hey, Mr.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: C, can I get a hug?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, sure, like, you know, at first I was like kind of like doing the side hug thing, and one of the teachers came, she pulled me aside and she said, Hey, if you make them feel awkward about asking for a hug, that's gonna affect them for the rest of their life.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had to learn to say, Okay, you know what, let's do this, you know, and and embrace it.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, even now, like, you know, I I will hug my cousins, my sister, you know, and and it's and it's also been just the the things in life that have led to that, you know, sure my parents passed away both uh in 2020 from COVID.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um gosh, within a month and four days of each other.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: Oh gosh.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so um it's been it's life has been crazy, um, but it has taught me a lot about love.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's so funny that now because I used to be very analytical and logical and not emotional.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And when my parents passed, like it just went full one the 180 to the opposite side, and there'll be times like I'll just start crying, and I'm like, I don't know why I'm crying.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I know why I'm crying, it's trauma and it's and it's grief.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um, there's never a time for how long grief is going to last, but right um it just happens, and so and I'm like, and I get frustrated.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, Lord, why are you making me emotional?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you letting me this happen?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let me go back to the old way.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's so good for the soul, yeah, it is, and and uh, and I'm trying to learn that crying is good for the soul.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, but being Mexican and racing in that environment, like it's machismo, you know, you just you know, my grandpa used to say only girls cry.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know so many boys were raised that way, yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's been a whole drastic change in life now within the last probably five or six years where it's just flip-flopped, and now I'm like, okay, you know, and now I'm trying to pass that on to my nephew and be like, hey, listen, it's okay to cry.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And and he because he, you know, he had when my parents passed away, he was 13.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, and I remember um probably like after about two weeks after my mom passed away, he said, he said the OJJ and I said, Yeah, he's like, is it okay that I didn't cry?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um I was like, Yeah, it's okay.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's okay not to.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I said you have to deal with it in your way.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And literally, probably about a year and a half later, he said, he called me and he said, I was thinking about grandma and I cried.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: I said, it's okay.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay to cry.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's okay, it's okay to miss them.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and that's the thing that I have which had to learn recently is that it's okay to miss some people when they're gone.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's I get frustrated with it sometimes because I'm like, as a Christian, I like I know where my parents are.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like I'm glad, I'm happy.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Their their life, uh, health life was terrible for the last probably five or six years of their lifetime.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, for that side, I'm like, you know, I'm happy that they're gone.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously it's a physical side.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I wish they were still here, I wish I could share things.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there's things that have happened, both good and bad, in my life, uh, since then, that I'm like, you know, I wish I could pick up the phone call and say, hey, this is um this is me.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: I need your help, I need your advice.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um, you know, but I you know, my um pastor um Abbott used to have a saying, he said that you know, when he was younger, his pastor, his dad passed away when he was like 23, and he had just taken over church, and he was like, when things were going crazy, he was like, he said, he would be like, I wonder what he, I wish you'd call my dad.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, and he used to say, My dad would, I could hear my dad say, Ronald, is your life, is your spirit right, and is your attitude right?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I remember my mom used to tell me that because I used to be like, oh, I'm right.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, I don't know about that attitude if you're really right.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh no, I'm right.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And and so um, you know, there's had been times like in life that now have that I've had to say, you know what, is my attitude right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is my spirit right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and and and not just myself call myself out, but I've had my sister call me out and say, you know, I'll call her and be like, I can't believe Pastor did this or I can't believe this.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, but is your spirit right?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is your attitude right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, yes, and she'll be like, Really?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, all right, I gotta go pray, I'll call you later.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's been a different uh a different transition that way.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I I it's uh but I I like that that's happened.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's needful, so needful.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you quit Bible quizzing, and then because I was gonna say, I would think that having that in that age group would keep you plugged in to church because I know, like, did you go to public school or Christian school?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I went to public uh Christian school for five years up into the sixth grade, and I begged my parents to let me go to public school.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they did, they gave in uh, you know, now looking back, I wish they would not have.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: I wish they would have just said stick with it and said, you know what?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because at that time we got to work at our own pace.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so I liked learning.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I left the Christian school, I was in fifth grade doing eighth grade work already.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I went to public school, I was like, this is boring.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and then what do you do when you're poor?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do you start getting in trouble and doing things that you're not supposed to be?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and so yeah, looking back, I wish that they wouldn't have, but I also look back, I also look back in and say, if they had, I wouldn't have had all experiences and been able to relate to different people that I can now.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I was thinking that having quizzing would help you have something in the church because so many kids feel left out of you know, not being able to do sports and all those kinds of things that you know they feel like they miss out on.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I would think quizzing would give you your own sense of purpose during that time.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, unfortunately, like for me, uh when our youth group, and as big as it was, either they were either three years older than me or three years younger than me.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like in the middle, and I was like the only one that wasn't.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I never felt like I fit in.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and I used to tell people, and I still do because I still feel it sometimes, but I always used to feel that it was me against the world.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so even though I was like you never fit in.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I totally didn't fit in.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I I mean, it's funny because like people who went to high school with me meet see me now and they'll talk to me now.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, What happened to you?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: You changed, like you were so quiet and reserved and shy and didn't talk to anybody in high school, and now you're just like out loud and just you know, and I just you know, I tell them, I say, you know, part of the it is I just quit caring what people thought.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that a blessing?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's a blessing.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: It comes with age, I think.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it's because I tell people all the time, I'm like, listen, when you meet me and you get to know me, you're either gonna love me or you're gonna hate me.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's no in between me.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and um, you know, and so that's how I feel about it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm and I'm very straightforward.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes that comes across as rude or or or just you know, demeaning, and it's not meant that way.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I've just I tell people all the time, like, listen, I just say what I mean, I mean what I say.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, if you don't do that, then what are we doing?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it helps everyone to know where they stand.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm very much that way as well.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And but I I like to know where I stand with people, so I'd rather people just shoot shoot straight.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I think most people can handle that better than dancing around the edges of things.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: This episode has been sponsored by my friend and dentist, Dr.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Craig Sedillo at Smile Vicilia.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for a dentist, you won't find a better one in Tularie County.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: He specializes in all your dentistry needs, plus cosmetic dentistry and ortho.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: His phone number is 559-734-7035.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you call him, please tell him that Kathy from the Redeem Backslider podcast sent you.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, what made you eventually backslide the first time?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's uh so I'm gonna reference a lot of messages and different things in this, just my answers.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Pastor Abbott, Bishop Abbott preached a message one time and he's he preached to Call the Wild.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And he was basically It's amazing that you remember that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember the title and and uh everything.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um he he preached a lot, and and I like most of my childhood was with him, and then obviously Pastor uh Bill Parkey took over, and and that's where my youth and and mid you know middle age years went with um but he preached a message, Pastor Abbott preached a message on The Call the Wild, and he was saying how we are always looking over that fence, and he would see, like, hey, that grass is green, or hey, there's a piece of gold, or something that draws your eye to the other side of the fence and and temptation.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, my and caveat to that, my mom would say, if you give the devil an inch, she'll take a mile.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: And when I left, it wasn't to like go out and do craziness and do whatever, whatever.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was just I just wanted to see what's inside because I didn't get to do it, and I didn't ever feel part of our youth, our church, and you know, and so like it was just kind of like all right, cool, like whatever, I want to go try this.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I did, and it was right, she was right.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I was trying to give an inch, and he just took a full mile, and and obviously some and I shouldn't say he took it because I made the choices, sure.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so dangled the carrot though, yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: He dangled the carrot, definitely, and I bit it and he hooked line and synchroned me with it, and and so that's why I left.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And um it I wanted to come back probably in my 20s.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um how old were you when you left?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was 18 when I left.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Matter of fact, I moved out of my parents' house when they went to work.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't even tell them I was leaving.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: They went to work.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, and I packed my stuff and I left.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: And they came home to my all my stuff on.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you feel like you needed to do it that way?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because even though I was an adult at that time, I felt like they still had the rule over me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if they said no, I can't leave, then I won't I wouldn't be able to leave.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: So it felt like a runaway.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and and I didn't think that they would I mean, uh don't go wrong, I they weren't physical in any way.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: They're like they wouldn't have beat me to stay there, they would have just, you know, guilted me into staying there.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and so yeah, so when they left, I packed all my stuff up and I left.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And where'd you go?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: I actually moved in with one of my best friends, or actually two of them.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we had a two-store or two um bedroom townhouse, and so they paid more of the rent, so they got the rooms, and I slept downstairs on the couch, and that's what I did for a few years.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um how long before you talked to your mom and dad?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was probably I I I would probably say probably a year.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: A year, so you ran away and did like I talked to my dad a lot.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: My mom was very um I got I love that woman, but sometimes we are so much alike, and so we butted heads constantly growing up um because we were so much alike, and I didn't understand then how to deal with it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so my way of dealing with this, I just went and talked to her.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there was a time when we lived literally next door to each other, like there was two apartment complexes, they were right next door to her.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: My front door looked to her back door.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't talk to her for three years.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: I would go see my dad, I call, make sure she was there, I go see and I talk to him.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And not, and I'm not saying that being proud of, I'm actually saying because I I'm sad now because that's the time I'll never get back.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I was so stubborn, I was just like, Well, if you want to be that way, then cool, I'll be that way.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see who can win this, you know.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's play this game and see who can win.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't a game, but to me it was like you're challenging, okay, then I'm gonna challenge you back and let's see what happens.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think kids, no matter how old you are, I think kids always expect the parent to go first because they're the parent.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're the adult.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, even though we are adults as well, you know.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think I think that happens more frequently than not, you know, because no mat like I said, no matter how old we are, we still consider our parents to be the parent to do what's right, you know.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: My dad used to say, he used to give us a big thing.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they can't always do that.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're just people.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: He uh he used to say all the time, he's like, JJ, you sometimes you just gotta lose the battle to win the war.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, No, I want to win all the battles and I want to win the war.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, You're not going to.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, we'll try.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Or I'll die on the hill train.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what's happened.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were backslid, and I don't mean this in any kind of glorified way, I I asked the question because my pastor said that with backsliders, they seem to become like the worst sinners of all.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like people that don't even grow up in church, don't even do the crazy stuff that it seems like backsliders do.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like it's an illustration because when we backslide, I don't know about you, but I grew up in the hellfire brimstone stage.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so polishing my toenails opalescent, like just a little bit of, you know, opalescent for crying out loud, I was going to hell for.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we lose all of our sense of boundaries.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so we, you know, I didn't know if that happened to you or not.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I I I like I said, I I don't want to give any credence or glorifying feeling in any way, so I don't want any people to take it this way.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I will literally say there's probably not a scenario that you can think of that I didn't do, other with the exception of like super hard drugs.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, to me, I, you know, tell my nephew all the time, Cynicine.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't mean it doesn't matter what you did, it's right.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, even though I knew when I sinned, what I was even though I knew I was sinning and I could still hear that little voice somewhere in the back of my head saying, Hey, you know, this is not what you're supposed to be, this is not what you're supposed to be doing.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I just kind of just said, I just kept pushing it to the side and just said, Okay, you know, just kept um I kind of like uh the old days in the Bible where you rolled your sins ahead of your like I just I'll I'll deal with this later.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'll deal with this later.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then she started to compartmentalize everything and just say, I'll deal with it later.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Do you um I forgot I was just gonna ask.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Did you stop talking to God completely, or did you did you still pray at times, or did you feel like you were kind of cut off from him?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: So this is something that's coming recently.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um I you know, I told my my current pastor, I said, you know, when you call prayer meetings, I'm sorry, I'm one of those people who get in there, give me five, ten minutes, I'm just going full bore, done.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do the hour-long prayer meetings or the you know, the all-night prayer meetings that it's just not me.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so when I was going through all this, um I it was weird.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't pray and I didn't really feel God.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: There was times that he would like, you know, nudge me and I was just like, okay, that's just me.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just thinking about it because I knew this, you know, whatever, whatever.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but I always pray for my meals, no matter what.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Even like I don't know, even if I was doing it silently, I'd be like, Thank Jesus for his food.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just kind of, you know, and just and just that part.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and so, but it like I didn't want at that time when I was out, I didn't want to go back to church.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't until later on where I wanted to go back to church, and then I started thinking about what is everybody gonna say?
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, what is everyone, um, what is everybody gonna do?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I didn't, it was hard for me to go back to Teleri because um, you know, I was out one night having fun with some friends, and we ran out of you know, adult beverages, and I went and picked like three bottles up, and I'm walking over to the front counter and I see my pastor's wife.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and she was like, Hey, JJ, and I was like, Hey, and I was like, she's like, having fun, and I was like, Yeah, see you later.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I paid and I ran out the door, and I got my car, and and my friend who was with me, I said, Watch, my mom's gonna call me in about two minutes.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, What?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I just ran into my mom's pastor, his wife, and she he's like, No way, and literally two minutes later, my mom called, so I heard you were out buying alcohol, and I was like, I'm not drinking, but which was the excuse I used.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I you know, but it is it was this those times like that, like wanting to come back, but just thinking, you know, what is everybody gonna say?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for backsliders and for Christians who have left and and trying to come back, the hardest thing to do to come back is is deal with the fact of what people what do you think people are gonna say.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And in reality, most people are not gonna say anything, but we over-exaggerate that if that one person says something, that means the whole church feels that way.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know that's that is the I would say in the past, I believe that's been the culture.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it still is in some places, you know, but I feel like backsliders are coming home not just in our church, you know, but I think around the world people are coming back to the Lord.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm kind of predisposed to believe that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we kind of leave in order to meet a need.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like you didn't ever feel like you fit it fit in.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel like I fit in.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: When you left, did you feel like you found that thing you were looking for?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: That the place where you could just Okay, I I arrived at my two friends that I moved in with, they just became like my family.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay and like it was always there, like, hey, let's go out do this, let's go do this, and we were gone like all the time, just doing different things and um and not always partying, but just like randomly going on hiking or go fishing or stuff, just different things, and it just made me feel like I was part of something, yeah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and I think realistically, my whole life into that point, like I was just trying to figure out where I fit in, yeah, and want and wanting to feel the sense of me of being, you know, need wanted seen and wanted, yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, and I will say there was one person, uh, he's still my best one of my best friends, and we've had it's funny because we just talked about it the other day.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we literally grew up together in a church, and then we both left.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: Both came back, and then we've had disagreements between the two of us where we didn't talk for like five years, and then it was just like kind of like, hey man, this is stupid.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're best friends, we shouldn't be doing this.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh his name's Shane, and he he would uh and backstory to that, like my parents were very poor, but and uh so he would always ask his mom and dad, hey, can I get you know an extra money?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna take JJ.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so he would pull me, and he was three years older than me, and he would take me with him.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And when nobody else wanted to, uh we lived out in the country, nobody else wanted to take me home from Sunday night after going out.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: They wanted to just go, you know, everybody lived in the city, yeah, and he would drive us, and so he's honestly, if it wasn't for him, I probably would have left a lot sooner.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: So he he helped out a lot in that way.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Those things that we just take for granted that we don't always pay attention to those that don't go, that aren't invited, that aren't included to go out after church or you know, yeah, like you.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um because maybe there's not enough money and the economy is crazy right now, too.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, to hear you say that out loud, I think about how many other people that has affected because there is an awareness that oh, I'm not invited.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: The others are invited, I'm not invited.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it it can be hurtful, you know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Clearly, you understood that.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: On a scale of one to ten, how much of an effect do you think being poor had on you?
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I think for me, I don't think it had like I I it had definitely had an effect.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would say probably back then it was I probably blew it up more than it was.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I would say probably like it was like a seven back then.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: But now looking back, I feel like it was like a five, like maybe four.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like it wasn't it wasn't as important as I thought it was.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think but then is where you're influenced, and that's what hurt you.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that definitely and so um I think just like I said, going back to it, just being part, just wanting to be accepted for viewer, and and that's just it.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you said, that that's um and and I try nowadays, even with our youth, because I work with our youth, I'm on the youth board.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I try to like if I see something that you're like, hey bro, do you not have money?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them sometimes will be like, no, I don't.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, go order whatever you want, man.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: I got you.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, what?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yep, order whatever you want.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because they'll look it, they'll do the same thing I did, and they'll be like, Can I have the smallest burger?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: And can I have the smallest fright?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, bro, get the large, get the extra supersize, whatever.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't care.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just because I want everybody to feel included.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I know what that's like.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, to be on the opposite side of that.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: And even people like I love our church now.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're we're small, we're growing, uh, but we do every uh Bible study night on Thursday nights afterwards, we have food for everybody.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um we work in teams, so everybody, so not one person is just bringing everything all the time.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then Sundays, pastors like, hey, we're going out here to fellowship.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: If anybody would like to come, let's go.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: And there'll be times that we just, you know, you'll see people go and they just go for the fellowship.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you know that they don't have money.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, and so and I'm not like by any stretch of the imagination rich, but like if I have the opportunity to bless somebody, I'll do it because I remember what it's like.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom used to tell us all the time it doesn't matter how poor you are and how how little you have, there's always somebody who's worse.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because like it's true, people tell you, like it when um we just measure it differently.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: We do, and um, and like when my parents passed, um we we had I we had so many people reach out to us, and me and my sister, and just tell us all these stories of my parents giving people stuff when we were kids.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: And like I had people who were like, Yeah, we we had like no groceries, and your parents showed up with like six bags of groceries.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, wait, how do where did all that money come from?
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did that happen?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, but it was nice to hear uh there was a gentleman who reached out to me uh uh via email and he said, I was homeless, and your dad every day for a year uh for I think it was a month or two months, bought me McDonald's for breakfast every morning at Home Depot.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: He he would go get me a breakfast sandwich and a coffee, and he's like, he goes, and your dad had no idea who I was.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and so you know, when I hear things like that, like it just makes me want to be that part.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, um, I we talked about at their funeral the legacy is the legacy of being a servant.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um my mom was uh she worked like till she couldn't, even after she had her quadruple bypass surgery.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_02: She worked at the church farm booth every year making beans and making burritos.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when she got to the point she couldn't, she's like, All right, JJ, you take over and I'll start telling everybody what to do.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, cool.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: So we just did it forever.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, that's always been my thing.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: My um, my I feel like my role in the church is servitude, and you know, and like my current pastor and my old pastor, uh Pastor Parky, like it was funny because I tell him all the time, listen, Sister Parky would call me like at 10 o'clock at night and be like, Hey JJ, I forgot to get this for the kids.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Can you pick it up?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I'll have it there tomorrow morning, or do you need it tonight?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: And whether whatever it was, I would do it and just take it.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: And even my current pastor now, uh Pastor Baca, like you know, his wife, she'd be like, Hey JJ, can you just I'm like, What do you think?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: I always mess with her.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love her, she's so awesome, and God knows that she's amazing because I give her uh trouble all the time.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: And she she'll ask for something.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, What do you think?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: I am rich, I just can't afford it because I'm single.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, No, I just know that you'll do it.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Yeah, you're right, I'll do it.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'll bring it.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: So um, I love giving her a bad time, but she's a great sport about it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I but it's also like I said, I love serving, I love doing what we're doing, and um, you know, so it to me that's that's part of being Christian.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: Were your parents still at Abundant Life when they passed away?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they still so they because Brother Abbott passed, yeah.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: So for COVID too, so that's three people they got so those three and Pastor Grogan, who's the current pastor, uh-huh, were all at a funeral for somebody of one of the ladies in church, and they all got sick at the funeral.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and they all passed away.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, brother Mickey did not, he was he was very close, but he he pulled through it.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so my mom passed first, and then two weeks later, my uh Pastor Abbott died, and two weeks after that my dad died.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big hit for one church.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, obviously for your family too, but man, COVID was no joke.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was, you know, it's funny because like I going through it, I kind of just was like, this is dumb, like it's so fake.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, because I know it didn't be like, you know, and I'm like, this is crazy.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: And and then and thank God I never got sick, not once, never tested positive anything.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, and when my parents passed, like they did have seriously bad bad underlying issues, yeah.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um that dominated it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, it was just like, well, okay, fine, it is what it is.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, Pastor Abbott, like that guy was ox.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: He was so strong.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so when he lost to he passed, lost to his life to it, I was just like, maybe this is real, maybe this is in that's after my mom had passed away because I was like, oh, she just was in pain, you know, her uh quality of life was terrible after she had her quadruple bypass surgery.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you know, I was just like, oh, that she just had that, but Pastor Abbott, there was no, he was never like healthy, yeah, as healthy as could be.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so that happened, and I was just like, okay, we probably should take this a little serious now at this point.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: So what surprised you most about being backslid uh about yourself?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_01: Be you know, being a backslider, what surprised you most about yourself during those years?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think the thing that surprised me the most about that is my willingness and ability to do whatever I wanted to do and not feel guilty about it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's a scary place to be.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: As a as a human, as a Christian.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is that in re do you think that in retrospect, or were you conscious of that at that time?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Were you aware at that time?
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I say that's in mostly retrospect because at the time, like I just felt like it was just it didn't bother me.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Free and easy, right?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was just like there was no consequences, it was just like, oh, I'm gonna I can and unfortunately, I you know, it's almost like I was saying, oh, I can go back and repent anytime and God will forgive me for whatever I did.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to pause right there.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um because now that I'm back and now that you're back, and I I think there's a different awareness that at any time God our our day could have been ended, you know, our number could have been up.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and in the current state of the world, I think about that there is no promise for tomorrow.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so backsliders, if you're listening, you know, not to scare you or anything like that, but I think that that's a we take for granted the grace of God.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: 100% and myself included, you know, and it it's just to me a miracle.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a miracle anytime a backslider comes home, but it's a it's a miracle that I didn't die in my sin.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: There was a couple of years ago a girl whose life I felt like paralleled mine quite a bit.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um When she died, I cried for days because I saw myself in her and I don't think she was ready.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and I always I just think about that.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we do not have a promise.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, we are not promised you know tomorrow.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, my thing now in retrospect looking back, I just think I just always say to myself, if not for the grace of God.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: It is a hundred percent the grace of God.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: There was there has there was times that I did things, were partaking of things, or been part of things, and probably should have died.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, same.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And or ended up in prison.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I mean, I can tell you just off the top of my head, I remember my mom called me one weekend.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was in 2001.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was in uh I was living time of living in Bakersfield, and we go out every weekend partying, drinking, and whatever, doing whatever's and my mom called me on a Saturday evening at eight o'clock at night.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: She says, I think you should come home.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Why?
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, Something bad's gonna happen, you should come home.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, You know what?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'll come home tomorrow.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, No, if you don't come home today, something bad's gonna happen.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, All right, mom, I get it.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: I I said, I'll see you tomorrow.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just hung up the phone and I got dressed, ready to go out.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's like 10:30 at night, and I just said, I don't know, that little voice, little thing in my head, and I just told my friends, I said, you know what?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm just I'm not gonna go out, I'm gonna go home right now.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, at 10:30.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Yeah, my mom called me, she needs me.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I made some random excuse, you know, just to look cool in front of people.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: And so I did, and I went home.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, uh that night, that day, the the group of people that I hung out with got in a huge, massive fight.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody got their head cracked open, um, and a couple of them got arrested and having drugs and paraphernalia on them.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, those were all the people I was with, and I was all doing the same thing.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I was like, man, and um, so I I found out about it that Sunday that because I was on Saturday, so Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon, I found out about it, and I was like, What in the world?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, Yeah, so I was like, okay, so then I went back home uh the following weekend.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was back in Briggsville doing the Friday night rose or Saturday night rose again, and my mom calls me and she says, You should come home.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Why?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, something bad's gonna happen.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, You can't pull this twice in a row, like it's not.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, All right, she was like, I'm just gonna let you know I warned you, you're your choice.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: And she hung up the phone, she hung up on me, and I was like, wait a minute, she hung up on me.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: It was like then something starts kicking in that spidey sense, and so I was like, I just called the friends and I said, Yeah, I'm not going, I'm going back home.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: My mom and dad needs me there, blah blah blah, whatever.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I came back home, and the rest of the group that I hung out with all got arrested.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: And uh whatnot.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I remember I found out about it again, all these sense that day.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: I called my buddy, I was like, Hey, what's up?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: And he didn't actually one of the guys who didn't actually go out was with I was the one that called, and because I called everybody, nobody's answered our phone.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I called him and I said, Hey, what's going on?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, bro, you didn't hear?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, No.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, What?
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_02: He's so he tells me this whole story.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, and they have a picture of you.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: They were asking who you were, they don't know if you're part of the group or not.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, the police were looking for you.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Okay.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Yeah, I probably wouldn't come back to Bakersfield if I was you.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, I was like, all right, and um, so I don't know if that's true or not to this day.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't actually go to the police station and ask, hey, I'm here, you know, whatever.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but I remember I snuck back to Bakersfield at like three in the morning and circled the block of my house for like five or six times, make sure no one was there, and in the middle in the darkness of night, I packed off all my stuff and I came back home.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and uh just and I and I didn't go back to Bakersfield for probably 15 years.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that when you went back to church?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's kind of like right around the time I decided to come back to I or I shouldn't say decided God let me come back to church.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: And um, at the time Pastor Parkey was the pastor in Tulary, and he was actually really I love Pastor Parkey.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I you know, his I tell people all the time if you if you looked up the definition of a man of God in a dictionary, his picture would be there.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I know he doesn't he doesn't like when I say that, but I'm like, I truly believe that about him.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: I seen him go through some things in his life, and I remember I so I got really, really close with the Parkies.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um I mean I grew up with Stephanie, uh, but Bastard Parky just he loved me, and he just had that it really makes a difference when you know that.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he he just had that ability that he would just put his arm around you and he's like JJ, and it's in just the tone of what he said, yeah, and I knew I was like, I just start breaking out because I knew I was or I did something wrong, or I was whatever.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was other times he'd just put his arm around, he's like JJ, and I'm like, he's gonna tell me something good, and I'm like, Yay.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, through my whole coming back ordeal coming back and whatnot, he never held anything I did against me.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, okay, cool.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so um he did, but I tell people all the time, like I seen him go through things because I was so close to him, I'd be at his house, and I remember distinctly one day some things are happening, and I was really upset because they were doing some really shady things to Pastor Parkey.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, I'm just gonna clarify you said shady, yeah, shady, shady, not anything else.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: You talk a little fast, so it sounded like the other word.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I remember I said, Pastor, let me just give me the word, I'll go, you know, give them a two-piece in a soda, and he's like, Nope, we're gonna pray about it, we're gonna be Christian.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I said, Okay, and I remember him being upstairs in his room, in his prayer room, in his office, and he was praying, God, let my spirit be right, let my attitude be right.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just thinking, if he could go through everything he went through and have that attitude, how am I not gonna be the same?
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: Or how am I not trying to be the same?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so um he just it was it was uh, you know, that he he let me come back.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's where my starting of Bible quizzing for coaching started, um, is in Teleri.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: And um, they had uh the Sunday school director had decided they wanted to do Bible quizzing, and me and my sister were the only people in the church who've ever done quizzing, and they were and she wasn't going to church at the time, so they were like, Hey, you're here, and I was like, Yeah, no, I'm good.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'll tell you how to do everything.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I'll get all the material order for you.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, but I don't want to coach, and they're like, Okay, no problem, they just help us out.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, cool.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so we did like three months getting them prepped for everything, and then um I remember I went to practice one day, and brother John, who was the Sunday school director, said, Hey, Pastor Parking wants to talk to you in the office.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, Oh man, what did I do?
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what did I say?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, it's just like being in the principal's office when you get called the principal's office, you're like, That's terrible going through your head.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like that people feel that way about talking to their pastor.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I still to this day, like my pastor will text me, he's like, Hey, bro, what are you doing?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, nothing, what's up?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: And he'll leave me like for like 10 minutes.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: And in my head, I'm just like replaying everything I could think of.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm like, Did I do something?
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_02: Did I say something?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: Did I act some way like I'm not supposed to?
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's unbelievable.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then he's like, Oh, just check and see how you're doing.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, bro, you can't leave me hanging like that.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I freak myself out because I overthink a lot.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a well, you also had experiences, it sounds like that you were called in and in trouble, yeah.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so, um, but yeah, so back to the story with that.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Pastor Barkey said, Hey, you know, thank you.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: We appreciate you for coaching or helping the, you know, get the program up to date.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, So we me and Brother John talked, and he's like, We want you to coach the seniors.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Absolutely not.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: I told you three months ago I was not doing it.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Well, if you don't do it, then they all have to quit because they don't have a coach.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh man, fine, I'll do it.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: And uh were you back in church?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was starting, I was I had just got back probably like three months in, and then all this happened, and so um, you know, I was just kind of like, All right, cool, so fine.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I did it, and I remember that first year, and and this is a prep uh preview for everybody.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: Don't ever pray for patience.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I prayed and I said, Lord, please give me patience with these kids.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: I had 16 teenagers between the ages of 12 and 14 at that point, and that I was coaching.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we had four teams, and so I'm like, Oh, this is so I prayed for patience because I was like, I'm gonna choke some kid out, I promise.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so we he did, he taught me patience.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: We won one or two games the entire year.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so each tournament used to double elimination.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: So we went to seven tournaments, we won two games.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_02: One game we beat our second team, and the the second game we won because the team didn't show up.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only wins we had.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, and I remember after the season, I was like, I don't ever want to do this again.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: And my my mom goes, Hey, remember when you pray for patience?
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh, you're right.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, That's right, I prayed for this, shouldn't I ask for that one?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'll ask for money next time.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but yeah, so uh that happened, and and you know, but we got lucky.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we had a coup we had a couple kids that stuck with it.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, one in particular, he he just gravitated towards it.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna take a short break for our sponsor.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hey everyone, I wanted to tell you about a new resource.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: I recently wrote a book, a children's book, called Where Did That Come From?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's about intrusive thoughts.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're an adult, you know that you have intrusive thoughts and children have intrusive thoughts, but they don't have the cognitive ability to understand them like we do as adults, but they really, really affect kids.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wanted to write a children's book that adults could use to help the children in their life, whether it's a Sunday school teacher, a pastor, a parent, um, a school counselor, a school teacher, or even other therapist.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to create a resource that allows us to talk to kids about the thoughts that they're having, but also teach kids how they can overcome those thoughts.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is a Christian-based book, so the solution is going to be a Christian-based solution, but I I'm not trying to sell a ton of books.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the purpose for me writing the book.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: The purpose is to create a resource that we could use to help more children.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so again, it's called Where Did That Come From.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you can find it on Amazon, and there is a link attached below.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope you'll get that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it helps and hope it would be a valuable resource to you.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you went to be coaching, Bible quizzing.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so you know, that was three months into you coming back.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: So what did you go through deciding to come back to church?
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: When you moved back from Bakersfield and you moved home to your parents, was that just an automatic assumption that because I'm living here, I'm gonna go to church?
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: Would you have been able to live there and not go to church?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or what was that like for you?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_02: The process of coming back was when you have nothing and you're flat on your back, all you can't do is look up at God.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like going to Bakersfield and everything that I had happened and coming back.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: I came back with no job, no, no place to live uh at that point.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just kind of moved back in.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, luckily, my sister took me in for a month, and then my she was like, All right, you gotta go to mom and dad's.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, So I had to process call my mom and dad and ask them to come back.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, Well, you know, the rules still apply.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, All right, fine, whatever.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: And the rule was going to church.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_02: Rule was going to church, you know, obviously not out partying, be home by you know 11 o'clock at night, all this good.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm an adult at the same time.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, well, whatever, I have nothing else to do.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so church was I I had planned on going back to church, but just to make your mom dad, yeah, just to pacify them.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I it I still wasn't really wanting to go back.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but through the process of Bible quizzing and teaching these kids, like it's so funny.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, going back to the pastor thing, like I didn't want to be pastor.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_02: So when I got back, we did the first year we did the book of um was it the book of Psalms?
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then we did basics of Pentecostal Doctrine One and Basics of Pentecostal Pentecostal Doctrine Two, which is basically what we believe, why we believe, and how we believe it.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: So it's the Holy Ghost, baptism, all this stuff.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, and then the foundation that the foundations of being the pastor, yeah.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, as it is.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then the last the the the fourth year that we did it was um I didn't even know there was a book out there with those things in it.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's really awesome.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know what the Bible says, but I didn't know there was a formulaic book.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: They they break it down into sections interest water baptism, the infallible word of God, different things.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just I need that book, JJ.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll have to get you a copy of it.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely uh study guide.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: So um, but then the the fourth year we did was the transfiguration and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so is Matthew and Revelations.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember my mom said, Hey, maybe you wouldn't want to be a pastor.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Yeah, she's like, Look at all the books to study you guys are doing this year.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, I'm good, no thanks.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and so I I still ran from it.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and I guess I guess in some sense you could say I'm still running today, although I've kind of slowed to Snell's pace, and I'm kind of like, All right, Lord, at this point, whatever you want, I'm good.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm just yeah, I'm just gonna be here and just well, it's you know, that's gotta be God's work anyway.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, your willingness obviously opens the door for that, but he does put his desires in your heart to do his good pleasure.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely if you let him.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and definitely it's it's something that like uh you know, I kind of just say, Hey, whatever God you, whatever you want me to do, I'll do.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you, you know, even with like our church now, um, because we're so small.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, at first it started with like the pastor said, Hey, we're gonna do um, he said, God has talked to me and he we're gonna start giving people jobs in the church so that when we get bigger, we've already got our defined, you know, leadership and we're ready to go.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I remember I was thinking when he starts, he starts you know, starts calling out people and telling things they're gonna do.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, he's gonna tell me Bible quizzing.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: I've done it for the last four years, like it's not a big surprise.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Bible quizzing coordinator, bro.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: JJ, you're heading over that.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, okay, cool.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was like, Yeah, so it's like I was getting ready to leave.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Yeah, I'm cool, I got my job, I'm done.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then he was like, and he's like youth committee, and he starts saying up people, and he's like, JJ, you're only coming.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Really?
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna give me an extra job?
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, fine, whatever.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I did, and I love youth, so don't get me wrong, uh, I love kids in general.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so um I just like so for me as a teacher, like when they get that aha moment, or they're super proud, like when they added like three plus three, and you're just like, and something that we take as adults, like so simple, but they're like they struggled and they got it, and you're just like and you see the beam in their face, that's the things I love.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, and that's the things like even with quizzing, it's not like don't get me wrong, I love winning.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_02: I I will never say that I don't love winning, yeah, but it it's it's it's transformed from when I first started in the early 2000s.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was all about winning.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like I was just like, you know, I bet you probably found some identity in that.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I did, you know, and because that was something you could do and accomplish and be good at when you were lacking some of those other places of belonging.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh it changed from that to now I just want them to hide the word of God in their heart.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, it's like, and I tell them all the time, I said, listen, don't be me.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: Don't quit.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: Don't, you know, give in.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I said, even if you do, I said, just learn as much as you can.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that goes back to um back in the when I first started coaching, um, it was like I think year two or three, and I was just I was done.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: I was over it.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: We had lost, we couldn't win, nothing.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, and I hadn't got my new quizzer who ended up being super awesome.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh, and that's another story in itself.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: But um there was a uh gentleman from Bellflower, his name is uh Brother Eric Ogden, and he's now the district coordinator for uh South Carolina or North Carolina one, two.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was like, Yeah, I said, brother, I said, This is gonna be my last year.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Why?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I'm just tired of losing.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I don't I don't understand why these kids don't get it, like I don't see the purpose of this.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, he goes, Well, let's go have a talk.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so we walked across the street to the restaurant, we sat down and talked, and he was like, Do you know what the two things is you can take with you when you go to heaven?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I'm assuming the Holy Ghost.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, He's like, Do you know the thing?
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, No, the word, and he goes, Every word that you have hid in your heart.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, So it's eternal.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's like, if your kids don't learn anything else in life and they make it to heaven, he's like, All the scriptures that they've had in their heart is gonna be in there with them.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: They get to take that with them, and that just gave me a whole lot of things.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: I've never even thought of I never even thought about what we take to heaven.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: I know the Bible says you will be known as you're known.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but the word being eternal, that's that's good.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, it will take them through their life.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so when he told me that, like it just I got the aha moment.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, it's not about winning or losing no more.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it coincided with the fact that we started winning at that point.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, all right, this is fun again.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but again, I it was still a it was still competition at that point for me.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and um well, that's probably some of your personality, too.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and but I've had to learn, you know, learn different things up with that, and so um I'm thankful now that we focus on we still win.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um matter of fact, we just got back from uh nationals this year, we took second in nationals.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I'm so proud of my kids.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_02: Kayla was on our team.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so then my pastor's kids, two kids.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we were we went to nationals, took second.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: I was so happy of those kids.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_02: But um I at the end of the day I told him I said, listen, I don't care if you win it or lose it, like we're going to worship God.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I I I I remember we went to dinner, um, or well not dinner, we went to breakfast the the day before, or the day of getting ready to quiz the national chapters game.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we ate dinner and I our lunch, uh sorry, breakfast I moved all over the place.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I told Pastor Rock, I said, Hey, can we go back and pray?
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: I just feel like we need to pray.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Sure.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, When?
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: I said, After we eat, let's go back.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Okay, so we left, we finished breakfast, we all went back to the hotel, got into the room, and we had a good old-fashioned prayer meeting for about 15-20 minutes.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: And when I tell you the Spirit of God walked into that room, it just flew right in, and it was just like it was such a calming peace that when we finished, I looked at Brother Martinez and I said, I have a peace.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care if we win or lose.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I'm at peace.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Really?
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Yeah, and he's been with me so while so he knows how competitive I get, you know, and sometimes and so we walked out, we went downstairs to go to quiz, and um we and we quizzed against Fresno, um, and they were really good.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so we were friends with them, and I said, Hey, can we pray before the thing?
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_02: And he's then like, yeah, so all the team, the the all the quizzers and the coaches, we all got together on the stage and prayed before we even started the game.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember brother Jeff Mercer, who's the uh national quiz coordinator for uh um uh WPF, he said, That's the first time I've seen somebody do that before.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, We're friends, we're all Christians, we're here to have fun and pray and honor God.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so we proceeded to sit there and we lost.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_02: We got so hammered that first game, and I was just like, and they were like when we we got ready for the second game, they're all looking at me like wide-eyed, and I said, It's just another game.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I said, We're just gonna go have fun, and I said, Whatever God's will is, that's what it'll be.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I don't care.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: JJ, what led you to backslide again?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_01: And how long was it into your first coming back?
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I left in 2007, I think it was.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: What caused you to leave?
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of things.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the most the the thing that was the the thing that was most was Pastor Parky leaving.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you had some church hurt.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there was some church hurt.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there was some things said about me when I so when he left, I asked him, because he was my pastor, if I could leave.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_02: And he said yes.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: He gave me his permission to leave.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: He asked me where I wanted to go.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: I told him, and he said, Okay, I'll let them know that you're coming.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so he did.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna pause because uh I think everybody is friends, and there's a new pastorial ship now, and you know, it it the life of a Christian in church can be rocky.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, in the recovery community, they always say principles over personality, because personalities, everyone's gonna have a personality, and we do get hurt by those we love.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: We get hurt by people we go to church with, we get misunderstood, we get judged, we get all kinds of things, and everyone we go to church with is also trying to be a Christian.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's it's not about hypocrisy, although that happens, um, but that's a whole different thing.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's really just about people I hope that are just doing their best to pursue the Lord and their relationship.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: And in the process, it can be messy because we are all just people.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just clarifying because I do love the pastors at the church.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then and I imagine you do too.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: And people from all sorts of churches listen to this.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just want to make sure anyone listening does not get misconstrued because I came from a church split as well.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that it's very easy for people to take sides and it's very easy for there just to be collateral damage when a pastor leaves.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: So so okay.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when all of that happened for you, it disillusioned you to some degree.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you It did.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and like I said, I I'm glad you stopped right there.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have anything against anybody at any church that I've ever been to.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I could tell that.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know who's listening, and I just want to make sure it wasn't misconstrued.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why I'm not I'm not throwing names or anything out there.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just, you know, uh other than like, you know, Pastor Who's my my pastor.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so, you know, I that's part of why I left.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, when you go, it's taken a while so like my church now, it feels like home.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and when I left ALC, I went to a few churches.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: And to find where you fit, yeah.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: So to try to find, but nothing felt like home.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so when when you feel like nothing feels like home, and you in your mind said, I can't go back home, then what do you do?
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the backsliders listening or those who love the Lord but aren't going to church for that reason, I think there's a lot of that.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um I I think that God can use that.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I also think the enemy will try to um capitalize on that as well.
• 1:07:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so you you gotta be really careful.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: It goes back to what you were saying earlier.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is my spirit right?
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is my heart right?
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people do love the Lord, and this podcast is four backsliders to reach them to kind of break down the barriers that might prevent them from coming.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'm spending a little time here because you know, I I never I have great friends in other denominations that are pastors and I would go to their church for a while here and there, but it was never ever home.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because I grew up different, you know, and I think they could serve me for a period of time in my healing process, but it was never where I was gonna be able to land and stay because God called me to this.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that now.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't always know that then, but I believe that now.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for anyone that grows up in this, it's probably fairly similar, and it sounds like for you as well.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and you're right.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I I went to places that they were that's what I needed.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_02: I needed the healing of that place.
• 1:08:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, um, from Exeter to Brother Amory and Reset, they were just they were what I needed at the time.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: And as much as I love those people and love, I I love Bishop uh um uh man's name, I forgot his name.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um he's an ex-ray kid, I'm blanking right now.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_02: Dymien, no, not brother Dimion.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: Brother Phillips, yes, sorry.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_02: Brother Phillips.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so brother Bishop Phillips used to come to our house all the time when we were kids, and he used to he used to fellowship before he became a pastor.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I had that relationship with him, and I love that man.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_02: He was so awesome.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: He was full of love for sure.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he yeah, if I could have like one-tenth of the love he gave and showed to people, I'd be very humble.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so yeah, so that that just kind of is what left me to leave.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it wasn't even that I wanted to leave, it was just nothing was home.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can keep going and going and say, okay, I love Jesus.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm gonna follow the rules, I'm gonna, even though I'm not going to church, you know, I'm still this and this, that.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the longer you stay away from church, and that's why they could think the Bible says, forsake not the similarity yourself together, you can't fight everybody, you can't watch your back and fight, you know, when you're in a fight.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's why the church is there for to surround you and to protect you, and the pastor is on the watchtower to watch for your soul.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, not having that, I just kind of just wander.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do, we we drift, yeah.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that led, um, and I would go to church in Telaria every once in a while because my parents still went there this whole time.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, and I'd be like, I can do this, and then I'd be like, No, I can't.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and then um I think it was probably right around 2018, and I just I went to my mom and dad's house and I wasn't living with him at the time.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Listen, I love you guys.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: You raised me to be the person that I'm supposed to be.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_02: I said, But I'm just not gonna go to church no more.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom's just like, why?
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Were you backsliding in your heart at that time, or were you just feeling like you didn't have a church to go to?
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_02: I just felt like I didn't have a church to go to.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's nothing against any of the churches that are around here because there's some awesome and amazing churches around here.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and I'm friends with your pastor, uh, Brother Jeremy.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, I call him.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Matter of fact, I called him out of the blue one time and I said, Hey, bro, can we use your uh Sunday school room for Bible quiz and practice during youth convention?
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, Yeah, sure.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'll open the door for you.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: And no questions.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that man, he's a good guy.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, I just decided I didn't want to, I just I just didn't want to feel like a hypocrite.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I wasn't even it was it was crazy because I wasn't even doing anything bad.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what I was asking, because the first time you left, you walked away from the Lord.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: The second time you left, you were just I felt like not really trying to leave God.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: You just were hurt.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: And no, yeah.
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I tell people all the time, I felt like a ship without an anchor.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's what your home church is, is your anchor.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so, or at least to me it is.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just said I don't want to go.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom started crying, and my dad got upset.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_02: My dad never got upset, like he was always happy go lucky, and they were both like, We didn't raise you that way, you know, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom was a woman of God, and she said, If you don't go change your mind, God's gonna take the thing you love away from you the most.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, I don't like that.
• 1:12:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no offense to your mother, but God is not punitive like that.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand what she was saying.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, as and at the time I thought, oh my God.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many people out there though who think that of God.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and in and no, it definitely I wasn't that.
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, I remember just thinking, eh, you know what, whatever.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I just quit going to church.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And wouldn't you know it?
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Pastor Jim Thorson, who's the pastor in Placerville, California, is one of my good friends.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_02: I consider one of my best friends.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we grew up coaching together in Bible cuisine in the early 2000s, and so I remember we were talking at the time, and he was he was having his own issue about wanting to become a pastor.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_02: His dad had kept pushing and pushing, and he kept saying, No, no, I don't want to, I don't want to.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: And he was talking to me, venting to me, talking about it.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, If you become pastor, we can't be friends.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, What?
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I'm not friends with pastors, and he goes, Okay, and he just laughed about it.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: He says, He has his little laugh.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's if you know him, you know.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, and so we left to be.
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then um, some things happened in his life, and he became he got his license, and then his dad suddenly passed away.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_02: He took over the church, and then I remember it was like probably mid late 2019, 18, early in the 19, and he texted me and says, Hey, I'm a pastor, are we still friends?
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Yes, we're still friends.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he out of nowhere, he didn't know anything that was going on.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Hey, if you get time, come up and hang out with us and visit, you know, visit me and the family.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And in the process of 18, 19, I probably went up there like four or five times and spent the weekends up there.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And my mom made the comment, you know, for somebody who doesn't want to be uh in church, you sure hang out with pastors a lot.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it it was he, I call him Parky 2.0, he laughs about it.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I they actually finally got to meet together, and I was like, So amazing watching them both both talk to each other.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but he just loved me, he didn't judge me.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um, even when I was not going to church and I was up there with them, um, he'd be like, Hey, we're going to church.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to come, great, if not, stay at the house, go do whatever you want to do, whatever.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And he never forced the issue.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so that to me made it easier for me to say, okay, you know what?
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'll go watch this, I'll go to service.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'll go watch a service and and you know, and it just built a process of me going.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, and so uh you later on in 2019, my my sister and my mom have this huge blowout fight, and neither one of them were talking to each other.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_02: They both decided to have Thanksgiving on their own.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, But you can go the other.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, listen, I was born at night, just not last night.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not picking this out on this one.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I called him up and I said, Can I come have Thanksgiving with you?
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, sure.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I went and had Thanksgiving with them.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then um uh and I still wasn't going to church in 2020 whirls around.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Both my parents get sick.
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, may no, March 26th, two o'clock in the morning, I took my dad to the hospital.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_02: March 26th, six o'clock at night, I took my oh sorry, my mom to the hospital, six o'clock in the evening that same day, I took my dad to the hospital, and neither one of them came home.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and it was rough.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I remember, and this is so And at the time you weren't going to church when the No, I wasn't really, and honestly, and it was so funny because like at that point in time when it happened, all I wanted to do was go to church.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: And nobody was having church.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like as it was combustered.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_01: We were having church in the parking lot.
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know that much.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so I was just like, This is like okay, this is not cool.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember like, you know, the devil will use people and do things.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I I remember my mom passed away.
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_02: The very first phone call I got was from somebody, and they said, Man, we're sorry about your loss.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do you need to send you do you need to send you some alcohol?
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, for what?
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, for all the pain.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, why?
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I could get drunk and I'm gonna deal with it in four hours from now.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, I'm good.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm fine with that, I'll deal with this.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I did, and and you know, and in the process of that of them passing, it just created a desire for me to want to go back to church.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew I knew that God had told me basically not verbally, but just it's you know, hinted it to me, if I didn't go back, then I wouldn't go back at all.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, I think we do know that because I had a similar understanding, and and I think grief, you know, like with families, like with you know, Christianity, with families, it's either gonna be close together or it's gonna blow you apart.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and me and my sister, I love her to death.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_02: We grew super close together.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we went from not checking in each other to like literally talking three times a day.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_02: And even now, we might not talk every day uh like all like three times a day, but it'll be a text in the morning or a text that even like, hey, I haven't heard from you, why haven't you called?
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are you okay?
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I mean, we have all the bells and whistles, like you know, live 360s who can check on each other, see where everybody's at.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but it's just it created that bond.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, like it created this theory, like, I want to go back to church.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was the process of like, how do I go back to church?
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and so um, I knew I wanted to go back, I just didn't know when.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so 2020 happens.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just going back and forth trying to figure out what I want.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_02: I knew what I wanted to do, what I wanted to do, I just didn't know where I wanted to do it.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so 2021 rolls around and things are starting to get back a little bit to normal.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_02: And Pastor Thorsen calls me and he says, Hey, what are you doing?
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Such, such date.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Nothing away.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_02: You want to go out to lunch or something?
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, No, I need you to coach my Bible quizzing team at the youth convention.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Absolutely not.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, You said you don't have nothing to do.
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Yeah, I'm not coaching, I'm done, I retired, I'm over this something, never doing that again.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Never say never as a Christian, because you will eventually have to eat those words, and so I said, You know what, I'll think about it.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Okay, and so I I went to sleep that night, or tried to, and I tossed and turned all night, and I could just hear God telling me, do it.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Why?
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't going to church at the time.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'll be honest with you, I wasn't even really being Christian at the time.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I and I was like, it's funny.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, why are you talking to me to God when you know I'm not where I'm supposed to be?
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I said, Okay, fine.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I called him up, I said, I'll do it.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Really?
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Yeah.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was like a couple months off before that was supposed to happen.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I had time to to think about it.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I started going back to church and just visiting different churches and trying to get acclimated back with God and started making some commitments to God and just saying, Okay, the I and I think the the this the reason that this time is so much different is I chose to live for God.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of my childhood and my pre you know early adulthood, I was going to church for my parents, not because I wanted because it was in my heart.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_02: And after you've been through so many things in life and you're so broken, and like I said, all you can do is say, Okay, God, I take this mess and can you do anything with it?
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just kind of like uh, you know, if you think about it, it's like the Mary Clay, he just sits there and he just molds the clay, you know.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_02: You you can build something if you've ever done ceramics, you can have a perfect piece go in, and all of a sudden you just touch a slight and then just flops all over the place, and you're like, not gonna start all over again, you know.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and so like I just tell I said, I said, All right, God, can you do anything with this mess?
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so I, you know, it's like going to church and figuring it out.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, so we go to youth convention and I coach the kids.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Funny enough, it's Caleb and Pastor Thorstenson Joel, and uh they had never beat a certain team, and also we beat them that tournament, they take second, and these kids are super ecstatic, you know, and they're like, and so um we go to church that night, and the evangelist um that was preaching youth convention preached on I believe it was her name is Jill Moore, and her she is the first clinically diagnosed case of the inability to forget anything.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_02: She has perfect recall memory of sounds, smells, dates, times, everything from the time she was 14 till now.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and so and the preacher was preaching, he's like, Some of you have a call of God on your life, but you can't forget all the things you did.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I was sitting there and I was like, I literally felt like somebody shot me through the heart with an arrow because I was like, I was judging myself, and nobody can judge you harder than yourself, right?
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was judging myself on like how can I be a coach?
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: How can I be a Christian when I know all the stuff I've done in my past and I know all the choices I made, good, bad, or indifferent.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just sitting there and I was like, okay, and so I was like, All right, God, I get you.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so I I prayed and and and sought God that day and had a great time.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so we go out to dinner afterwards, and Pastor Thorston's like, hey, the boys have really liked you coaching.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, What?
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Really?
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, Yeah, they said that you're different.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Is that good or bad?
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, No, it's good.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, They really like coaching.
• 1:21:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Cool.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Well, I had fun, it was a cool time, and so then the next night we go back to church, and the message was for youth question, the message was, What is your commitment?
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought God said, Ask me, What is your commitment?
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, Lord, I quit drinking, I quit smoking, I'm not being immoral, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, all these things, and I'm listening, all these things that I've done or quit doing.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, What is your commitment?
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I don't understand.
• 1:21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you asking me what my commitment?
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_02: I just told you what my commitment was.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, and then I said, and then he asked me a third time, What is your commitment?
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay, God, I have no idea what you're asking me.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't tell me, I'm not gonna be able to answer this question.
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, Where are my ties and offerings?
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, and I thought about it, I hadn't been paying ties and offerings because I wasn't going to any specific church, I was just visiting churches, and I said, Well, okay, where do I have to pay it?
• 1:22:16
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Where do you want to be?
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Pascal.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_02: And he's okay.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_02: So then after church, I told Pastor Thorston, I said, This is what God told me.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Um, so I believe I'm gonna start paying tithes and offerings to you.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I wasn't even going to church there.
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, if that's what God told you, and you know that's what you want to do.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm okay with it.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay.
• 1:22:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so that led to the process of me becoming part of that church.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I used to drive up on Sunday, on Sunday mornings at six o'clock in the morning.
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a four-hour drive.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I know where it is.
• 1:22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go to Plaza Rio, go to church, eat lunch with them, and then drive back home on Sunday night.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I did that for a while.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so in the process of all that, we sort of I I got a little bit ahead of myself.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um so after youth convention, Pastor Thorson said, Hey, what do you think about coaching the boys for the rest of the year?
• 1:23:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, uh, all right, cool.
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was like two tournaments.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, that's fine.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so um we did right, and we got to we went to the state finals, which is the last tournament, and the week of that tournament, um, and I still feel bad about it to this day.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_02: I made a choice, and I made a decision, and it was an ungodly decision.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_02: And immediately after I made that choice, I felt just so convicted, and so just like, how stupid are you?
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_02: How could how could you do that when you know like all the things that he's brought you from and all the things he's done, and you go back and you do the stupid mistake, and and I say so I instantly hit my knees and I repented and I said, God, please don't let it happen, don't let this have any effect on the kids.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was my mistake.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't care, I will not be part of this if you tell me not to be part of it.
• 1:23:51
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and so we go to state finals, and we're the number one team in the state at the time, and absolutely bomb.
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm sitting there, and it's like watching a car wreck in front of you, and I'm just like, and I'm like, I'm trying to figure out how to stop the all the processes are going, and it's just going, you can just see it just going over the cliff, and I was just like, and afterwards, um uh sister Thorston, she goes, What just happened?
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, In my head, I knew what the answer was, and I was like, I have no idea, and I was like, This is just all bad, and so but in my head, I was like, It was a stupid mistake you choose you made at on Monday morning Monday morning, and um, and so um I walked outside, and before all that, Caleb the Martins was still living here in Vaiselia, and I was over their house every day just practicing Caleb.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Me and Caleb would go in the little tiny little office, and me and we sit there and quote scriptures, going back and forth, just charting everything and everything, and we go to there, and that happens, and after he's so mad and like crying, like he couldn't process, and he's just like red in the face, and they're trying to calm it down, and he's not having it.
• 1:24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Caleb, come here, and he said, No.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_02: And Chrissy was like, You get over there now, and he was like, So he comes over there and he's just got this attitude, he's mad, and I said, Caleb, I'm gonna tell you something.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Thank you.
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, For what?
• 1:25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, You'll never understand.
• 1:25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was okay with not going back to church.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_02: I said, but because of Bible cuisine, because of you, because of your dedication, I'm here, and I'm making the commitment to be a better person, be a better Christian.
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I hope to God you never have to feel or understand what I'm talking about.
• 1:25:45
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Okay.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, I wanted to strangle him at that time, and uh, and um, and he I said, So I hope you come back next year and do quising.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, I'll never do quising again.
• 1:25:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay.
• 1:25:59
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, I love you, and I just want you to know I think it'll be a mistake if you don't.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so we I just left off at that.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um about three weeks later, he called me, say, Brother JJ, and I said, Yeah, he goes, I'm ready to go do it again.
• 1:26:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Okay, I said, I'm gonna let you know right now I'm committed to you.
• 1:26:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I made a promise that day that I would never make choices that would have any effect on my kids.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and it's helped me to be a better Christian because there's nothing more like and it obviously having pastors' kids is even a bigger responsibility because I don't want anything that any decisions I ever make to affect their soul.
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so I have literally made that dedication to God, to them, that as long as I'm in charge and as long as I'm part of the ministry, I will not make the try do my best to not make mistakes, not now.
• 1:26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we're gonna fall and you know, but you know, try not to repeat the same things.
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so he he literally is him and Bible quising are the reasons.
• 1:27:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I I asked Pastor Thorston, I said, What made you ask me?
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he goes, God told me to ask you.
• 1:27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Seriously?
• 1:27:13
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Yeah, he goes, I was praying one night and got to call JJ and tell him to be my quizzing coach.
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was thinking, and now looking back in retrospect, I'm like, I had no business being part of quising.
• 1:27:25
  SPEAKER_02: I had no business being part of kids' lives at that time.
• 1:27:29
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact that, you know, early on, Pastor Parkey took a chance, and this time Pastor Thorson took a chance.
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, how many more chances is God gonna give me?
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't want to find the answer out to that.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I choose to just be Christian now and not ever have to try to figure out that answer.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, David fell and fell and fell, and God, God always used him.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, all through scripture, like God doesn't change, it's our perception of him that changes and can be in.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Accurate, right?
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad you figured out how to forgive yourself because so many people struggle with that piece.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_01: God's ready to forgive us.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_01: We can't always forgive ourselves because we know who we are.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, definitely.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 1:28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, JJ, I'm I I love to hear about the Bible quizzing because I didn't get to grow up with that, but I love the word, and I think it's so vital to our life as a Christian.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm very intrigued by the whole idea of Bible quizzing and what it could do for kids, you know.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um what do you want to say?
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I always end in the two questions.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to say to the backslider who is contemplating going back to a Pentecostal church but not sure they want to?
• 1:28:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say don't feel the need to go from one end of the spectrum to the other in one day, in one service.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's very good.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think so.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have to conform overnight.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think God changes us.
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_02: I I I I definitely agree.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like sometimes as Christians, we're like, if we grew up in this, you know, and backslid, like we knew all the standards, we know all the rules.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we feel like when we come back, you have to just jump right back into that life.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not sustainable.
• 1:29:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like an addict who says, Okay, I'm gonna quit drinking cold turkey right now and done.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there is there cases and outliers, sure.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_02: But the majority of people who jump from one end to the other end does not work, it does not last.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I would tell backsliders, like, hey, you know, take your time, build build it.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Pastor come, visit, yeah.
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Pastor Park is a good one.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you're not growing, you're dying.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and he said it doesn't have to be a mile, he said it could be a inch, it could be a step, but as long as you're pushing forward, and that's what I would tell backsliders who were listening I'm the first person to say if I could come back, anybody could come back.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, God has, and I will never talk about all the things that I've done because I don't feel like giving any credence to anybody else, but I will other than I will say God has delivered me from things that just I I have no business being in church.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have no business being alive.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the fact that I am is a testimony to God's mercy and his grace, and you know, and since and give yourself grace.
• 1:30:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it's okay to have fallen, like you said, you David, David fell and fell and fell.
• 1:30:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the Bible still calls him man after God's own heart.
• 1:30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, it the Bible says he had a perfect heart.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and my thing is um what David and the the story I love about David, and I tell the kids, you know, sometimes when we talk about different things, because when we have quizzing, like we don't just talk about quizzing, we talk about life.
• 1:30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I try to talk about life in general with them, uh some things, and I tell them, Listen, David's greatest attribute, in my opinion, is that when the prophet said thou art the man, his first thing was to hit his knees and ask for presence.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't argue, he's like, Are you sure?
• 1:31:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like right, do you have the proof?
• 1:31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have a text message?
• 1:31:09
  SPEAKER_02: He just hit his knees and sit and started asking for forgiveness.
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would tell you know, bachelor's, hey, you know, just ask forgiveness.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_02: And forgive yourself, you know.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's that's that's what it's really so simple.
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's words.
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's words, and it's easy.
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just crossing that threshold to say it out loud.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and uh I just added on to that.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_02: I it's easy to tell, like for me, I tell people all the time, it's easy for me to tell you to have faith, to trust God, to to pray, to ask for forgiveness.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to internalize that and say, okay, you know, because you're just in your mind, do I deserve grace, do I deserve, you know, right?
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Love you know, blah blah blah.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, yeah, just love yourself, love God, and and let Him be your guide.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_02: And don't, you know, don't try to feel like you need to go from one end to the other.
• 1:31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that's great.
• 1:31:56
  SPEAKER_01: No one's ever said that, JJ.
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's really a good that's good.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what would you tell a parent who has a kiddo out there?
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_02: I would say put them in Bible cuisine.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um or an adult kid.
• 1:32:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I you know I I it's sad.
• 1:32:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um I feel sad sometimes because I look at Bible cuisine and just I'll just say the Western District because that's where we're at.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's probably 50 to 100 churches in this in from you know, well, there's more than that.
• 1:32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I sent 126 letters for our conference out, and I didn't even send to every church.
• 1:32:34
  SPEAKER_02: So let's Western district is big.
• 1:32:37
  SPEAKER_02: We have a lot.
• 1:32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say Western District in general, let's say there's 300 churches, just to be a ballpark it.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_02: We have 10 churches, six that faithfully do Bible cuisine.
• 1:32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's an atrocity.
• 1:32:50
  SPEAKER_02: It is, it's I think you know I'm not a parent, but I look at it and I'm like, as a parent, all the stuff that's going on in this world, why would you not want your kids involved in something to know the word?
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:33:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's beyond just the competitive words.
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, hiding the word in your heart.
• 1:33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So why do you think, you know, I know we're getting ready to end, but JJ, why aren't more churches involved in quizzing?
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the money?
• 1:33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is it fine?
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_02: It is definitely a lot of money.
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I will say that.
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we've been to nationals the last five years.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_01: But what about just locally?
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, forget nationals for now.
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_02: So but even so the way it works is that they have the the Western District sets up the schedule and and where you're gonna have tournaments.
• 1:33:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um our tournaments go from Bakersfield all the way up to Sacramento.
• 1:33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So some of it could just be logistics that I think some have the ability.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I think so.
• 1:33:43
  SPEAKER_02: For me, and what I've seen, it starts with the pastors.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a pastor who has had who's done Bible quizzing, who has had kids in Bible quizzing, they understand the mission, the importance, the importance.
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so from past I mean, I remember the first year we did a quizzing in in Soleria, Pastor Parkey was 100% behind it.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_02: The year we qualify for nationals, the pastor Parkey paid for our entire flights for everybody for didn't ask for a bag.
• 1:34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Pastor Thorson has uh they said their church sets aside money every year for Bible quizzing.
• 1:34:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that that's um I don't want to get into the weeds of all of that, but I I think that's a good point because I know that like we look at what is the mission of the church.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think every church is have their own mission.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's to the lost, but to the families, to Bibles, you know.
• 1:34:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I I don't want to get into all of that, but uh yeah.
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_02: I will I will say this, you know, I it is a lot of money.
• 1:34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I've also coached travel basketball, boys and girls, and the amount of people money that people spend for travel sports supersedes what you use for Bible quizzing.
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so you have priorities.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not calling anybody out, I'm just saying I know it's priorities.
• 1:35:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's priorities, and honestly, like you know, I've been blessed to have from Pastor Park to Pastor Thorson to my current pastor, Pastor Baca.
• 1:35:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, they they understand it, they love Bible quizzing.
• 1:35:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and I said, and I said to all the parents, all the time, and no parents who are not have never done it before, just try it.
• 1:35:17
  SPEAKER_02: You would be surprised how much fun it is.
• 1:35:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the study is not fun at all.
• 1:35:21
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you 100% because you have to study, you view, practice, practice.
• 1:35:24
  SPEAKER_02: When you get to tournaments, it's just fun.
• 1:35:26
  SPEAKER_02: You get to see all these different people from different churches, um, different cities, and you just get to have fun and and relax.
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I would say if you don't have a program at your church, look into it.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it it's something it'll never fail.
• 1:35:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, never you can never invest enough money in your youth or time in your youth.
• 1:35:44
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 1:35:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I like I said, I spend probably um uh on a conservative mounts, probably by five, six hundred hours between practices, tournaments, and actually getting material ready for my kids um each year.
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Takes a passion for sure.
• 1:36:01
  SPEAKER_02: It does.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and I like I said, I love it.
• 1:36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Every year I say I'm never gonna do it again.
• 1:36:05
  SPEAKER_02: And every year Pastor Cause is ready.
• 1:36:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yep, yeah, let's get it done.
• 1:36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And even like um it just happens.
• 1:36:12
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I love it.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I really do want that book.
• 1:36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or tell me what to what it's called, and I'd like to get it because I think that's just good information that we all should know.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know it from the word, but I'd sure love to see it spelled out, you know, in order like that.
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, because I I I do believe it.
• 1:36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've studied all that myself.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_01: So JJ, thank you for reaching out to me.
• 1:36:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure to meet you.
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, this is a topic I've never talked about before.
• 1:36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um very interesting.
• 1:36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm glad the Lord knows who we are.
• 1:36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, He knows what we need, He knows what it's gonna take to get us home.
• 1:36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we just have to be willing, you know, to say yes.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where that fear and trepidation is what gets in everybody's way because I think all of us love the Lord.
• 1:37:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's just we got to get over ourselves, what we think, and what we think it's gonna look like to just take the first step.
• 1:37:13
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for being here.
• 1:37:14
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_01: And um, for everybody that's watching, thank you so much for watching.
• 1:37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I get the logistics and the analytics, that's the better term.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I get the analytics of um how many downloads and how many people watch.
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I just can't thank you enough.
• 1:37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And people are coming home.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm so glad about that.
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a world to reach for Jesus, and I think somebody can always identify with someone else's story, may not be my story, may not be JJ's story, um, but it might be JJ's story, it might be any of the other guests.
• 1:37:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, man, please just spread this.
• 1:37:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, not for my benefit, but just to reach the backslider and those who are, you know, thinking about coming to the Lord because uh they just need somebody to care.
• 1:38:06
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for watching and we'll see you again soon.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_00: We are so glad you joined us.
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a story of redemption or have worn the label of a backslider, we would love to hear from you.
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to support our ministry, your donation will be tax deductible.
• 1:38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Visit our website at the redeemedbackslider.org.
• 1:38:27
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you will tune in for our next episode.