Latest / Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love / Nequosha Anderson | Leveraging Tech to Create a High-Quality Client Experience

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Nequosha Anderson | Leveraging Tech to Create a High-Quality Client Experience · Wealthy Woman Lawyer Podcast, Helping you create a profitable, sustainable law firm you love

0:02
Unknown: Hi and welcome to wealthy woman lawyer Podcast.
0:06
I'm so excited you're here today and I'm really excited to have a
0:10
local Orlando attorney in here in sunny Florida with me she
0:16
thought at the moment but she lives in sunny Florida near me.
0:19
And I'm really glad to have her here today. She is the founder
0:22
and CEO of Andersen law firm Nicoya. Anderson, welcome to
0:27
push. I've been wanting to have you on my show for so long.
0:30
Thanks for being here.
0:31
Oh, that is such a delight to hear. Thank you so much for
0:34
having me. I'm so excited. I'm gonna give you good podcasts
0:37
because I'm not gonna let you down. I promise.
0:39
I did not worry about that at all. You and I are fellowship
0:43
Millie's I think in Rachel, we have years.
0:47
Yes, we are fellows release we Yes, we are on track to make us.
0:52
Well, some of us make more.
0:56
Well, we will make as many millions as Rachael Rogers
0:59
makes. That's
1:00
what we want to do. Well, honey, we got to have some conferences
1:03
and don't go by ranch.
1:07
Right. But I'm glad to have you on I want you to tell people
1:10
about your law firm. And when you started it, what you do, who
1:16
you serve, that kind of thing. So
1:19
no worries. So Andersen law firm was founded in 2013. Right after
1:25
I took the bar, I went directly into private practice. I also
1:31
worked alongside of my mentor in his practice, for about a year
1:35
and a half, two years, I had just had my little one. So it
1:39
worked out really, really great for a young mom and a new lawyer
1:44
and the hours and the flexibility. But it became a
1:48
time where I needed to secure better benefits for me and my
1:52
family. And so I went back into government, and I worked in
1:56
government for almost six years of serving in a public interest
1:59
sector. But then I reactivated my practice as of May of 2021.
2:05
And I serve women, primarily entrepreneurs, in protecting
2:12
their income producing ideas to make sure they are not robbed of
2:15
their intellectual property. So my core areas of practice are
2:18
business law and intellectual property matters. And I also
2:22
have an arm of business advisory services in case we need to get
2:26
out of the trenches. You know, some people are in business, and
2:29
they are in the trenches, but they need someone to get in
2:31
there with them to get them out. So and I think I pride myself on
2:36
doing that since I been introduced to business at an
2:39
early age my my parents and my dad started a business when I
2:42
was around 1314. And he got a great lucrative contract with
2:47
the orange home improvement store. And that went well until
2:51
it didn't. And then that was one of the influential, I'd say,
2:57
memories that kind of spawned me to go to law school, because I
3:01
didn't want other businesses to be like my dad. African American
3:06
business owners tend to run into some hardships, a lot more as it
3:10
relates to capital and support and all those things. But they
3:14
also run into issues of things getting taken from them, and not
3:17
having the resources to fight. So that is one of the key things
3:21
about my, my firm, I want all my clients to feel seen, supported
3:25
and empowered. And that can be a plethora of things, including
3:29
education, and empowering them with tools to fight.
3:33
I love that I was going to ask you what inspired you to become
3:37
an attorney, I can see how that would have been a very pivotal,
3:40
pivotal moment for you as a child to see that. And and how
3:45
did you connect that to sort of being a lawyer? Because as a
3:50
child, I wouldn't I don't know that I would think to myself,
3:54
you know, that being a lawyer would be the did you see that
3:57
person solve the problem? Or did you reach the where that he
4:01
couldn't afford a lawyer? Or what was the,
4:04
the connecting? So it's so funny you say about seeing someone. So
4:09
when I ventured off to go to college, I was completely a
4:13
computer geek. I'm still a tech geek. So I was on the data
4:17
route. I was going to be a data scientist, you couldn't tell me
4:20
anything different. But one day my dad came up to me, and he
4:24
says, Well, he called me Duke. That was my nickname. He didn't
4:28
call me anything else. One day I was born but Duke and nobody
4:31
else can call me that. So please don't. And my he said, Well,
4:38
Duke or I don't know what a data scientists is what they do. And
4:43
I said Dad, well, you know, I analyze data and I can figure
4:47
out patterns and and all these other things with the computer
4:50
and other well, I don't really know what that is. You want to
4:52
be no lawyer no doctor, you know, daddy, thank you should be
4:56
a lawyer. I wonder what you think about that. And so I I
5:00
said, okay, that so I took a computers and the law class in
5:05
college, and it sparked something in me. And it made me
5:10
think about what happened with my dad and how I lit up when I
5:14
got into class, like it was the easiest AI I ever got. And so I
5:18
went back and I told my dad, I said, Dad, I think I think I'm
5:21
gonna do more things with the law and my dad lit up. Like, I
5:26
had never seen my dad light up the way he did. And I always
5:30
that's such a core memory for me. And I always wanted to keep
5:33
that. That was my motivation to see him light up. And so when I
5:39
applied to go to law school, I was not the most, I wasn't the
5:43
greatest test taker, I suffered dearly when you put me in
5:48
confined settings and time, and it just the testing xiety just
5:52
didn't work out for me. So it took me multiple iterations to
5:55
actually get into law school. But every time I try, my dad was
5:58
right there behind me. You could do it do this. Fine. We'll get
6:02
it the next time. We'll get it the next time. It took me three
6:04
times. Took me three times to get in. And I finally got in.
6:10
And the rest they say is history had been he got to see me walk
6:13
across this stage. And it was a great day.
6:17
I know you lost him recently. And how difficult that must have
6:23
been for you. Um, so my deepest condolences for that. Thank you
6:26
appreciate hearing. I feel like I know much more about him. Now
6:30
the short story that you just shared, I appreciate that. Yes,
6:34
it is to have have a parent who's so such a cheerleader and
6:39
an influencer in your life. Sounds like he was really
6:42
influential in your life.
6:44
Oh, I was I was such a daddy's girl. I was my only child. And
6:50
I'm a girl. So you do the math. Princess? Oh, yes, we were very
6:59
close. And I'm so grateful for the time and the memories and
7:04
the influential things that he shared with me taught me that
7:09
they they're with me right now.
7:12
Right, right. I'm so glad you share. Thank you so much. So
7:18
tell me about your law practice today and why? I know that
7:23
you're sort of motivation to help business owners, but give
7:25
me a bigger picture of what that is like and how you do
7:29
differently than other people that you might that might
7:33
practice in those areas?
7:35
Oh, that's such a great question. That is such an
7:37
awesome question. So my firm is virtual. And so dealing with
7:41
intellectual property is federal law. So that gives me some
7:45
boundary limit, you know, not as many boundary limitations,
7:49
because it's federal law base. But having a virtual law firm, I
7:54
tell people is one of the greatest things that you can do.
7:57
But it's going to be a lot of work in the beginning, don't let
7:59
don't let me paint a rosy picture. Because you have to
8:03
give a you have to start with, what is my client experience
8:08
going to be like from the time they learn of me? And they're
8:12
not even a client at this point? They're just a potential client?
8:15
What is their experience going to be like when they learn on
8:18
me? And what is their experience going to be like, once I
8:20
conclude the matter that they hired me for? And that's going
8:23
to require you to have a lot of tech tools. And this is where my
8:28
dual side of being a techie, and now in the in the legal world is
8:33
paying off for me? Because I was able to say, okay, logically, If
8:38
This Then That, if this then that. If they find me here, then
8:44
I want this to happen. If they find me this way, then I want
8:48
that to happen. So practicing law in a virtual setting right
8:52
now includes capturing data, a lot of the work that the data
8:58
intake and manipulating the data the client does for me. I don't
9:03
do a lot of that. I tell people, my onboarding process takes less
9:06
than two minutes. Two minutes takes less than two minutes. How
9:10
is that possible? Will I have a tech tool I use? I don't use the
9:15
normal legal management software. Excuse me, I don't use
9:21
the legal management software. I don't use those. I use one
9:25
called dubsado. I'm sure you've heard of it. And it's a
9:27
customized software tool where you can use it. A lot of people
9:32
don't like it, because it's a very overwhelming in the
9:35
beginning because you have to build out a lot. Well, pretty
9:38
much all of it is literally a shale and you have to build it
9:42
out. But I like that because I can customize it the way I want.
9:46
And I think as lawyers, we have to think about our client and
9:50
potential client experience from the moment they learn of us. And
9:54
I think some practitioners are missing out on that. They have
9:57
the I'm the lawyer and this is what But no, think about what
10:01
you want to experience I did in my news, I sent out a weekly
10:05
newsletter on Tuesdays, and one of the recent newsletters I did
10:10
was talking about ease, ease, are you making it easy for
10:14
people to work with you, I know, I get anxiety when I get when I
10:19
need to work with a professional. And they send me
10:22
their onboarding. And it's like this long intake form with all
10:27
these boxes doing. And I'm like, it's overwhelming. And I feel
10:32
like some of those questions, you asking me the same thing,
10:34
just in a different way, thinking I'm gonna say something
10:37
different, and oftentimes be like copy, paste, copy, paste,
10:40
and then I can't even save the form if I need to walk away. So
10:43
if I need to walk away, I got to start all over again, right?
10:46
Yes, Don't you just hate that. And just
10:50
that happened recently, I was I was interested in some services.
10:55
And I completed the intake form, and then I got to the end, and I
10:59
was going to schedule the appointment. And I got fat
11:02
fingered it, and it went away. So I had to go and I had to
11:04
create the whole intake form all over again. And then after I
11:10
became a client, then they were asking me the same questions a
11:14
little different way, all over again. And I was like, Oh, my
11:17
God, every time I have to fill this out, it was so annoying. It
11:21
was from their end, I can see where they had all this
11:24
wonderful data, that they can, you know, make decisions on and
11:28
help and all that kind of stuff. But for my end, you know, like,
11:32
if I, if I hadn't really wanted the thing, I would not have
11:35
persisted. And I just kept like, and unlike you, I'm not a techy
11:42
person. I love tech tools. But I married my techie person. And he
11:49
are very patient with me when it comes to technology, because I'm
11:52
very impatient when things don't work the way that I expected to
11:57
work. So I can understand that, but that it has been a huge
12:02
advantage. It wasn't even something that you could do what
12:05
I started my firm in 2007, it wasn't even something you could
12:08
do use these sorts of tools and everything they weren't even
12:12
available at around. So I see that it's such a huge advantage
12:16
for young lawyers now, or you're starting out building their
12:20
businesses to be able to build these virtual firms. And also, I
12:24
started in virtual for 2013. But it was email telephone. It
12:29
wasn't the tools that we have now. So it's wonderful when you
12:35
have that mindset already. And I have that comfort level. Yeah,
12:38
to be able to set that up. What advice would you have for
12:43
somebody who doesn't have that comfort level, but we'd like to
12:46
take advantage of it.
12:47
The one thing that the one thing I would share with someone who's
12:51
a little tech shy or take anxiety or something is so write
12:55
down what the client experiences from the moment they learn of
12:59
you to the moment they leave you what does that mean the closure,
13:03
that means if a person finds me on the website, what's going to
13:07
happen and literally write it down. Because then when you go
13:11
and find the expert that can help you implement, you already
13:15
have the workflow written down, they just have to translate what
13:19
you wrote in plain English. And the if then this that, if and
13:26
that will make it so much easier. Because you know, the
13:29
client experience you want to have, you know what you want to
13:32
do. And so with that in mind, for instance, if you find me on
13:36
my website and you want to book a console, they're going to
13:39
click something or be directed to either Call my firm, or fill
13:44
out a form. Okay, when they get greeted with the form, this is
13:48
what I need to know right away. And you know, I always tell
13:51
people, when we do consultations, I don't
13:53
necessarily want to I do pay consultations, I don't do
13:57
anything free as of October 12 2021. That is no longer an
14:02
option. Because yeah, I had five consultations that day five, and
14:10
I was so excited. And I was like, I'm going to close at
14:13
least two of these, I just need to close at least to write a
14:17
close zero. And I felt so defeated. And I was like I spent
14:21
all this time I have stuff in my pipeline that I need to be
14:24
working on. Because at that time, I hadn't built out
14:27
majority of my team. I had a contract attorney to help me
14:30
sometimes, but I didn't have the team that I have now, which has
14:34
been a lifesaver. So, one another key advice that I would
14:38
give to practitioners is build out your team as soon as you
14:40
can. Do not wait. Because the longer you wait, you're you're
14:44
the bottleneck in the growth of your business. You are the
14:47
bottleneck and growth for your business. And once I discovered
14:54
that, other people can do certain things for me as long as
14:57
I give them the criteria for how I want it done. On, and also
15:01
give them grace because no one is going to do it exactly the
15:05
way that I do it. So if I have to make a few minor tweaks, I
15:08
can overlook that because I didn't have to start the whole
15:11
process. And I think as lawyers, we have this inability to let
15:16
go. And we have this mindset that only I can do it because
15:22
I'm the lawyer, well, let me tell you what's going to happen,
15:24
you're going to fail. And it's going to be, is going to be a
15:28
learning lesson for you. Because there there is nothing in
15:31
failure that you can't achieve. You will learn something or you
15:35
you gain something new. I love failure, because I learn best
15:39
when I fail. So like that day, I failed with those five consoles.
15:44
And what did I do when right in my system, I use Kalindi. For my
15:48
online booking, I know there's acuity and other softwares. But
15:51
I like Calendly. And I made it paid. So you can't even secure
15:56
time on my calendar unless you run that credit card or debit
16:00
card or whatever. I'm not moving.
16:03
Yeah, yeah, I love it. I love it. I love that. I think that's
16:07
such wisdom, there's so many things that you said there that
16:10
are very wise. The part about, you know, obviously, I'm a big
16:15
advocate of people building out their team, and the sooner the
16:18
better and all that because you're going to, you're going to
16:21
create more impact, and you're going to make more money. And
16:23
you're going to have more ease, like what we've talked about.
16:26
But you said something I thought was really important. And I want
16:30
to make sure that people hear it. And that is giving people
16:33
grace. And I think that's one of the most challenging things for
16:36
high achieving women who are so driven. We worked our butts off
16:43
to get where we are. And yes, part of our training, is
16:48
reinforces are already probably already personality traits of
16:53
controlling details, controlling all the details, controlling
16:56
everything. And it can be very hard when you first start
17:00
hiring. And one of the mistakes I've seen a lot of women law
17:03
firm owners make with hiring is that they, it it's the training
17:08
piece, they for an imagery piece and the leadership piece, they
17:12
forget, when they hire somebody, and that person makes a mistake,
17:16
they get really upset that this person has made a mistake. And
17:19
instead of looking at themselves and say, Where did I go wrong as
17:24
a leader, as a mentor, as a trainer, because generally,
17:29
people that's where the breakdown is. And the failure is
17:33
in that leadership and mentorship and training, and not
17:36
having a trading system in place and all of those kinds of
17:39
things. Because what we think we have, we forget that we have so
17:44
much knowledge and experience in our minds. Right? And that took
17:49
years to cultivate. That didn't happen overnight. Oh, you know,
17:54
I develop skills along that way. So when you're hiring people,
17:59
that there's no quick, you know, we have to transfer knowledge
18:04
and we have to teach. But we have to have patience along
18:07
though. So I love it. You said that about giving grace? Is
18:10
there a particular that came to mind that has come to mind that
18:14
you've experienced? I would
18:16
say I went through 123 I want you to three part time attorneys
18:24
before on the fourth one that I am now. And I lost my third one.
18:31
Three days after my dad and I had a I had to literally I had
18:36
no systems in place. I was a true solo. I had no systems in
18:40
place as it relates to what to do if I'm not available to do
18:44
the work. Nothing. I had to I found out my dad passed away I
18:50
had to draft the letter email to go out to my entire body.
18:57
clients and potential clients to let them know that, hey, I'm not
19:02
available. And I was the only one. And I didn't I left my
19:06
practice in limbo on my dad's birthday. Sure enough on January
19:12
10. And I did not return until February 9.
19:19
Yeah, because
19:21
because what people fail to realize on the I don't know, I
19:24
won't say fail to realize but when you have a traumatic
19:26
experience of that nature, and it's so instant, you know, like
19:30
it was a tragic accident that he suffered from. It's like your
19:35
whole world is like I can't, I can't focus I can't tolerate I
19:39
can't do anything. So I always tell people plan for the
19:42
unexpected. And that's where the grace level came because it's
19:46
like, I can only do what I can do. I can only do what I can do.
19:53
If I cannot do it. It will not get done until the next day. I
19:58
can only do what I can do You know, you're only one person and
20:03
giving yourself grace, you know, which I think is really hard for
20:07
people
20:07
to, oh my gosh, I was freaking out. I'm like, oh my god, I had
20:11
this in the pipeline. And then two days later, I shared with
20:15
her, you know what happened? And I'm like, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm
20:18
going to send us just some stuff to close out for me this week,
20:21
I'll deal with the rest of the ongoing projects, you know,
20:24
manage them. Because being an IP is always the first file. So I
20:30
know that I understand the priority for my clients and
20:32
getting their applications filed. And most of them were
20:36
prepped already. So it wouldn't took me it didn't take me as
20:39
long. But it was just like, Oh, my God, I'm by myself. I have to
20:43
figure this out. And I said, I can only do what I can do. And
20:48
it sounds I know, there may be a listener right now that's like,
20:51
Oh, my God, of course, you don't know what the Falah you talking
20:54
about girl, I have this, I have to go to court, I have babies, I
20:58
have a husband, I have a partner, I have a sick parent, I
21:02
have a sick sibling, I have all these things. But again, no
21:07
matter where you are, no matter what you're going through, you
21:09
can only do what you can do. And one thing I learned and it may
21:13
sound a little harsh, but the world will still keep turning
21:17
whether or not you do what you do. It will still go on, it will
21:22
still keep moving without you doing the thing or with you
21:26
doing the thing.
21:28
Right. And that's very humbling experience. There's a couple of
21:31
there's, it's kind of a double edged thing. One, it's a very
21:34
humbling experience, because you're like, Well, I guess why
21:38
do anything right, you know, like, do you think the world is
21:41
going to? But in the end, the flip side of that, though, is
21:44
that what a relief? Yeah, what a relief that you don't carry the
21:48
burden of the whole entire world on your shoulders like you think
21:51
you do? Right? You know, yes, I'm not responsible for every
21:55
thing and every body. And when we draw that boundary and say,
22:01
you know, I've once had somebody say to me, you know, oh, so you
22:06
can't be human. Right? Can you be human in your business?
22:10
Right? Because I, when I was starting this business out, I
22:14
just felt like I had to be available all the time to
22:17
people. And I had, it was, it's hard for me to set boundaries,
22:24
because I tend to put other people's needs above my own. And
22:28
that was the way I was sort of brought up. And so I had to
22:31
really do a lot of work to set those boundaries. And that it's
22:36
okay to be human. It's okay. If somebody reaches out to you. And
22:41
you say, I can't No, I can't even though, you know, I'm here
22:47
to help you. There are limits to such a thing.
22:50
I agree. wholeheartedly. I wanted to just say that. You
22:55
talked about boundaries, but I have boundaries in my firm. So I
22:59
as a virtual practice, owner, I have a reception service, I use
23:03
Smith AI. So I don't take on unannounced phone calls. I don't
23:07
do it. And in my intake form, it says the elf is a virtual firm.
23:13
And do you understand that they do not take unannounced or
23:17
unplanned phone calls or Zoom calls? Do you agree to that? Yes
23:21
or no? That's good. Yes or no. So I let you know from the
23:27
beginning, that we do not do on because in business, there is no
23:32
phone call that I can make within an hour that's going to
23:34
change anything from you. I ultimately work with paperwork,
23:40
and bureaucracies and
23:43
emergencies. There are no trademark. This is often what I
23:45
tell people. It's like how many practice areas are there where I
23:49
mean, like there really is not a true there's not a true court.
23:53
Yes, there's very few things that are true emergencies that
23:56
you can actually jump in and do. Right, you know, right
23:58
and actually turn the needle and change the direction or
24:01
something. If someone is utilizing your trademark
24:05
infringing and you didn't give them permission. I gotta draft a
24:07
letter anyway. I can't draft I gotta get the evidence that
24:11
they're using it. I had to put it all together.
24:15
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I want to I want to touch on something here
24:18
and ask you to go into this a little bit deeper, though. So it
24:23
is it is my belief, my philosophy and you'll hear about
24:26
it if you you know, if you hear me talk on the podcast or
24:29
reading my book.
24:32
I probably know what you're gonna say.
24:35
Well, is that you is that the client? If you don't create a
24:41
process, then right at the beginning and how those clients
24:46
come to you, how would their first interaction with us like
24:48
if you don't set boundaries and create that process? They will
24:52
try to fill in the gaps and so yes, when you have people who
24:58
are attorneys You're complaining about this client or that
25:01
client. Now, certainly there are those who slipped through the
25:03
cracks, right. But if you have so many complaints about that a
25:06
lot, it's usually because they haven't set, they didn't take
25:10
control of the process and and shore up that client's
25:14
confidence right from the beginning, that they've got this
25:17
handle. So what happens is, if you don't do that, you're not
25:20
communicating consistently, you don't have a, you don't have
25:23
rules for communication, all these things, what happens is
25:27
you have a client who jumped at it go well, and this is all kind
25:31
of on a on a energetic level, like people don't even know
25:35
consciously. But what's happening is they'll go, well,
25:38
this person really doesn't have it all together, I need to step
25:41
in with my leadership, and control the process. And so if
25:45
you're unhappy, if you're having a lot of clients you're unhappy
25:47
with, I would take a look at that process. But what I want to
25:51
ask you about is, and I, I, there's a good answer to this,
25:57
and I know you're gonna have it is that you're talking about, on
26:00
the one hand, you talk about how you want to think through the
26:04
experience that your client has with your firm. And then the
26:07
other hand, you talk about, I had a rule that says, you know,
26:10
make phone calls, you know, like don't take on announced calls,
26:12
right? So how does that gel? How does that align for you? Because
26:20
I know that you have thought about your clients experience as
26:22
well as your own in setting that up. So explain to me how you
26:28
think that makes for a better client experience.
26:31
It makes for a better client experience? And this is such a
26:33
great question. Because it's like, how can you say you're
26:36
thinking about your client experience, like you said, when
26:38
you don't take their calls when they call? Because it doesn't
26:42
make for better me? It doesn't make for me as a better
26:44
practitioner, if I'm consistently allowing you to
26:47
interrupt me. Because you're not my only client. If you were my
26:51
only client, Lord forbid, I wouldn't be able to eat, I
26:54
wouldn't be able to afford the tech tools, or my team or
26:57
anything all for one client. No, ma'am. No, sir. No, I can't do
27:01
it. So but just because you're not talking directly to me
27:05
doesn't mean that communication is not happening. And that is
27:08
how I bridge the gap. There are emails and messages that go out
27:12
that consistently update the client, because man nine times
27:15
out of 10, the reason why people are calling you unexpectedly
27:19
with random questions and blah, blah, blah, because they haven't
27:21
heard from you. They have no idea where they are in the phase
27:25
of the process. So shored that up from the beginning, and to
27:28
keep down on your calls. And number two, number two, if you
27:34
know that you want to build out an experience in the client
27:38
sector, your client experience that doesn't necessarily involve
27:41
you do like I did. I hired a Client Experience Manager. Good.
27:48
I hired a Client Experience Manager, and she is doing a
27:52
wonderful job. What does she do, I'll lay it out for you very
27:55
briefly. Number one, she follows up with potential leads. She
28:00
calls, people, my clients, every within 30 days, within the first
28:07
three days, you're gonna get a call from my client experience
28:09
manager, just to make sure your onboarding process is going
28:12
good. Make sure you know where the communication guide is and
28:15
your portal. If you have an email, if you have a question, a
28:19
quick question, you click one button and a send us an email.
28:22
If you want to get on the phone, you click one button, you get
28:25
the coordinate the date and time that works best for you. If you
28:28
say I don't want to get on the phone, I want to see the
28:30
question I want to ask her some questions, you click one button
28:34
and you get the coordinate a virtual call. If you put if you
28:38
put the tools in place and guide the people, they will use it.
28:42
And that is how you bridge the gap to create better boundaries
28:45
for you. And set the tone for your clients. It's all about how
28:49
you curate the experience. It's sort of like when you go to a
28:53
high end hotel. It's a curated experience from the moment you
28:57
arrive at that hotel. Whether you know it or not, they are
29:01
guiding you along the path that they want you to have beyond
29:05
until you get in even when you get in your room. Even when you
29:08
get in your room. It's a guided path on how you can contact
29:11
housekeeping room service, whatever the butler service
29:15
concierge service wherever you stand because everybody money a
29:19
little bit different. So So it's one of those things, right? You
29:24
get to do that in your firm, you get to be the curator, the BER
29:29
guests, you get to do all of that. And that's the beauty of
29:32
having your own firm. So I say how to do it is set the tone.
29:38
And don't just say oh, you can't reach me but still can have
29:42
communication things going out. I have update emails going out.
29:46
I have updated videos. I'm very into video messaging. If you're
29:51
not a lawyer doing video messaging. This is your cue to
29:55
start doing video messaging. We live in a world where people are
29:58
consuming tiktoks and live In 10 seconds or less, and their
30:02
attention span is is gone. So if you send in those long paragraph
30:08
type emails, you are missing the mark, when your clients that
30:13
long paragraph email could probably be broken down into a
30:17
one minute, two minute video, and you could put captions. And
30:20
the reason why I say that is because everybody learns and
30:23
comprehends data, totally different. Everybody learns
30:28
differently. So if you have a client who reads make sure you
30:32
have transcription service, so they can follow along, and still
30:36
put paragraphs under the video message if you need to. But if
30:39
you have an auditory learner, they can hear your voice, and
30:43
they can comprehend what you're saying, right. And then if you
30:46
have a user that needs to click and do things, they are clicking
30:50
the video, they are interacting with it. So you're capturing all
30:54
the learning styles. So I'm leaning back on my experience
30:58
when I worked for this, our local school district, and I was
31:01
around teachers all the time, and I got to learn how people
31:04
learn. And when you when you study that, and you understand
31:09
that you navigate different.
31:12
Right, right, right, I actually saw on your website, something I
31:17
thought was really clever. And I liked it a lot, is that you had
31:21
a video, you have a YouTube channel where you create videos,
31:24
but you had a video embedded in your website. And you were I
31:28
don't know, if you're sitting in your car, it looks like you were
31:30
but you were saying you're you're basically saying, you
31:34
know, the the number one, you know, you're taking questions
31:38
from your prospective clients and clients. When you said
31:42
somebody asked me what the best piece of advice was that I ever
31:47
had. And you gave two or three pieces of advice that you had
31:51
gotten that you thought were great. And I thought that is
31:53
such a wonderful thing to have on your website website. Because
31:56
in today's environment, people want to feel like they know you
32:00
personally, yes. And you for you to share that personal sort of
32:05
experience where instead of just answering their questions, well,
32:09
here's what you need to do. If you're thinking of getting a
32:11
trademark. You've went into, you know, here's let's, that's good.
32:16
That's a good question. Because you work with a lot of business
32:19
owners I do. And they who are always mean, you know, this, I
32:26
know this as entrepreneurs and business owners, we're always
32:28
looking for some good advice, right? always that way. So I
32:33
call it golden nuggets, right? So look for those gold nuggets
32:35
every year. Yes. Oh, aha moment. And I just thought that was
32:40
really a great thing that you did on your site, because it was
32:43
so real and so authentic and personal. And without being too
32:49
personal, you know, is there's a fine line, do you know what I
32:52
mean? Like, they don't understand like you can be, you
32:56
can reveal who you are as a person, without air and all your
33:00
dirty laundry. Like there's a lot of people
33:03
agree with it. I agree with you. There's Yes, there are some
33:06
practitioners where I know a little bit too much about what's
33:09
going on on the other side. But I will say there is definitely a
33:14
fine line with managing social media and what to share and
33:18
whatnot this year. One of the key things that I do is I try my
33:22
best to be real and honest and let you know that, hey, I'm
33:26
having a bad day. And this is the only things that I got to do
33:29
today. And I sometimes I call it my daily log, when I first
33:33
reactivated my practice, if you look at some of my feed it to
33:36
say May 9 2001 only got to do this only got to do that get
33:41
stressed out to get that boom, or close the good client today
33:47
close a great deal today. Very excited since a client good. I'm
33:51
very big on a curated hospitality experience and an
33:56
advisory experience with businesses. Because I think
33:59
that's the missing element with a lot of business law
34:02
practitioners. You're not you just it's not just creating the
34:06
forms or the documents that they need to govern their business.
34:09
Give them the actual strategy on how to navigate the path or the
34:13
business that they want. And I think that's the missing element
34:16
that I provide because of the experiences I had since I was 14
34:20
Being around business owners, right. I've been around this. I
34:24
tell everybody if your family at a young age starts a business
34:27
you got to business you the employee, you the Secretary,
34:30
you'd admin staff and finance that you'd go for you everything
34:35
you put you to work when you're new are working honey, but you
34:40
know at the time, I had to navigate a customer experience
34:44
with other other companies at a young age on how to migrate
34:49
problems and how to do you know at an early age, I'm in high
34:53
school, dealing with our summer our employees and the issues
34:57
that come with that and all of this how As cultivated and
35:01
experience on how me how I navigate right now, how I
35:05
navigate right now, there's pretty much nothing that I you
35:09
can say that is going on in your business that I hadn't seen. You
35:12
don't have any money, you loan capital, you're you behind on
35:15
your bills, you have equipment failures, you had staff walk out
35:19
on you, you like that everybody's sick. Like it
35:24
happened.
35:25
That is the nature of business. That is the nature of business,
35:28
one of the things that I have told my clients, because I have
35:32
so many here are really just amazing. And they're so
35:35
inspirational, they build these wonderful businesses. But then
35:37
this whole great resignation, great Resharper, great, clear,
35:41
whatever you want to call it, right? Really threw some for a
35:44
loop. And I would, you know, I just remind them, if you plan on
35:47
having a business for 1020 30 years, you people are going to
35:54
come and go. It's not like, you know, what we remember from, you
35:58
know, grandparents, for a lot of people, parents, for others,
36:01
where you get a job, and you stay in that job for a year
36:05
working for that company for years, and then you retire
36:07
difficult watch. Now people move every few years, so they can get
36:12
some get pay raises. So as a business owner, you have to stop
36:16
letting it take you on this emotional roller coaster every
36:19
time that happens. And so you get to a point and really the
36:23
only way to sort of overcome that reaction is to just have it
36:28
happen over and over again. So the universe is like teaching
36:31
you, you know, like, Okay, you need to be a little tougher,
36:34
because think about you and your experience with the different
36:36
attorneys that you have all of that taught you. Okay, I'm still
36:41
gonna keep doing what I'm doing.
36:43
I have two people out
36:45
there, right? Because I got bills, I got mortgage, right. So
36:47
that's what I always say is, I guess lower. What's happening
36:50
around me I got bills to pay. So I should
36:53
do I should do.
36:55
And it gets you to think creatively about
36:58
it does it does lack of resources is the breeding ground
37:02
for innovation. So this is when you can come up with your best
37:06
ideas when you don't have as many resources, right. So one of
37:10
the key things that I heard you say you were like, don't when
37:14
people come and go. But one of the key things as an owner, a
37:17
business owner of any type, whether you're in law, whatever,
37:21
when you interview people, ask them what their goals are, and
37:25
see how you can help them facilitate that be a conduit for
37:29
the next level, because you can set the tone for them in a way
37:33
to where they're leaving, won't be as unexpected for you, you
37:38
will anticipate it at the beginning. Guys, you can ask
37:42
them ask them Hey, what do you what not? Then where do you see
37:45
yourself in five years? Crap? No, just be talked to people.
37:49
What do you want to do? Always, always say, What do you want to
37:51
be when you grow up? What does what is a perfect day look like?
37:57
Like what was it learn the interests of people like on my
38:00
team? My my, my right hand, my operator. He likes marine
38:06
biology things. In a law firm. He likes marine biology things
38:10
right? How do I know this? Because I opened my mouth and
38:14
asked,
38:15
right? Sure what interests you showed interest in
38:19
and actually understand, like he started with my firm. And within
38:24
two weeks, he asked, he said attorney and are saying my
38:27
brother is getting married. And I really I said great. When is
38:31
the wedding, I'm gonna ship him something I should to give to
38:35
his brother. He'd only been with my firm for two weeks, it blew
38:38
his mind. But that's the type of cultivation of relationship and
38:43
the threading that I want people to have. When you interact with
38:47
me, I send cards in the mail, I send random I stalk some of my
38:53
clients or potential clients, because they follow me on social
38:56
media, I may send you a card that says I saw you had a bad
39:00
day. I hope this makes it I hope there's a little treat brighten
39:05
today just a little bit something. Again, my core
39:07
pillars seen supported and empowered. That's how I do it.
39:15
And you don't have to have a huge pipeline in order to
39:19
generate a lot of money to make that happen. You have to make
39:23
sure people are seeing and support it. And that is since so
39:27
much value I give
39:30
for your clients and prospective clients as well as it does for
39:34
your team. But it's for your team as well. A lot of people
39:38
don't, you know, look at their team as being as valuable if not
39:42
more valuable than your clients. Richard Branson. I wrote a whole
39:47
book about this and about how he in Virgin Airlines he puts team
39:53
first he says they're my number one not my customers, because
39:56
without them this doesn't work.
39:58
Yep. You You have to learn that at an early early stage of your
40:02
business, your systems and processes are everything, but
40:06
the people who are pushing the levers are more. Because you
40:10
cannot push all the levers in your business, you cannot, you
40:14
cannot do every little tweak in your business and be successful.
40:18
If anybody tells you something, oh, I'm a true solo is just me,
40:23
and you are limited, you're limited in some way, I don't
40:26
know, if you may make more money than me and my firm, because you
40:29
may charge more. That's the difference. But your client
40:32
experience is not mine. Or, you, you, you feel like oh, I don't
40:39
need all that tech stuff, I'm just gonna do what I do, you're
40:42
gonna get left behind. Because the world that we're living in
40:45
is a world of convenience. Now, we have apps where we can press
40:49
two to three buttons and food is at our
40:50
door. Food is at our door, that doesn't get any better than
40:55
that. Except for the wine delivery services.
40:59
I mean, they have those two drinks, the drinks, or something
41:03
that the app or something.
41:04
Recently, I saw that reason I thought that was interesting. We
41:07
don't drink here. But you know, I just thought what a great
41:10
concept. You're what all the stuff you've been talking about,
41:14
is really about your brand and how you how you're different
41:20
from other firms, because I think that's really important
41:24
for people to hear and understand is that they can
41:27
create whatever kind of experience, they want to create
41:30
further clients and do it in whatever way that may not be the
41:33
way you would do it. Right. But it's so important to really be
41:37
clear on what kind of experience you want your clients to have.
41:41
Because that is that's your brand. And that's what people
41:45
associate with you is like I had this experience or that
41:49
experience. And that shows up not just in your personal
41:53
interactions with them, but in all of their interactions with
41:56
your business. And I think that's a huge distinction. For
42:02
for people who are wanting to scale their business and grow as
42:06
an actual business, is we have to separate the business from
42:09
the individual people have an experience with you as a person
42:14
is one thing, but what do you want your business? What do you
42:17
want their experience with your business to be because it might
42:19
not always be you. And that I think is part of part of the
42:24
challenge for a lot of people is how do I translate my core
42:28
values? And express them in this business without it having to be
42:33
me delivering the goods? Right?
42:36
Yeah, I'd say you set the tone early. And you always think with
42:41
the end in mind. Right? I always think with the end in mind. So
42:44
if you were one of my consulting clients, I will always ask you,
42:47
what does out look like? What does out feel like? When do you
42:51
know is ready? You ready to walk out that door? And then I have
42:55
them describe for me? What does that feel like? How when do you
42:58
know? And then we work backwards from there to ensure that the
43:02
things start getting in place, right?
43:05
To explain what you mean by out what is outfield? Like, tell me
43:08
tell me what you mean by that.
43:10
When I say out? I mean like I would I've had clients who say I
43:14
want to pivot to more speaking engagements, I don't want to be
43:17
the practitioner in my business. I don't want to be the one
43:20
pushing the levers. That's an out for them. Like they don't
43:23
want to shifting out in that next phase or stage of their
43:27
business. There's some people who actually just want to exit
43:30
the business. And I said, that's fair enough. What does exit look
43:33
like? Tell me what is what is out? When I say out? I mean,
43:36
you're not doing what you're doing. You're out outside of
43:39
doing what you're doing right now. That's what I mean. That
43:42
transformation, that trance when we were gonna train that moment
43:46
of transformation when you know, transformed.
43:48
Exactly. And some people say, Well, I don't really know. Okay,
43:52
well tell me what a day it feels like where you don't feel what
43:55
is a non stressful day feel like, Oh, well, I wake up and I
44:00
get my kids or I sit and I drink tea for an hour I read I
44:04
meditate. Okay, but I listened to what they say. But then I
44:09
listened to what they're not saying. They're not picking up
44:11
work. They hadn't answered the email, they haven't answered the
44:14
phone call. So some type of way we got to set up some systems to
44:18
where that day is a reality. Right? They're not the ones
44:23
pushing the levers. So people will tell you what they want.
44:27
You just have to listen. And then you go in as the
44:29
orchestrator or the consultant and you say, Hey, you told me
44:33
the day looks like you have an T for an hour and a half. What
44:36
time a day is this? Okay, that's NS the advisor you think and
44:41
that's a core business hour. What system or tool are we going
44:44
to have in place that's going to shore up them not having to
44:47
answer the phone or email, a Slack message or something
44:51
something has to be in place. I call it the Hoover Dam. If you
44:55
ever been in a Hoover Dam, a long time ago, you they would do
44:58
a tour and you would see water dripping from the walls. And
45:01
some people will put gum or whatever to try to see if the
45:06
water is going to do things. And that's what it's like in your
45:08
business, right? If you are working on one hole, another one
45:13
is going to spring. You can't. So we have to figure out how
45:17
we're going to plug that next water leak. How are we going to
45:20
do that in order to make sure your Hoover Dam doesn't explode?
45:24
Right. Right. Right. Are you?
45:30
So with through
45:31
your law firm, you really a lot of the things you're talking
45:35
about are not what attorneys will consider legal advice. No,
45:38
this is business consulting piece. Business owners in
45:44
business advice and outcome. So it takes a little step beyond
45:49
that
45:49
it does and and I think that is one of the key differentiators
45:53
of my business law practice. And that is what cultivate a
45:57
learning experience to to allow the client to achieve whatever
46:02
goal they have said, It's not my goal is your goal, you tell me,
46:06
and then we plug up the holes, so the Hoover Dam doesn't
46:10
explode on you. Because in in the world of business is
46:14
overwhelming. It is so overwhelming. So much is going
46:18
on. I gather data. And I'm like, No, we're gonna calm down a
46:23
little bit. We're gonna calm down a little bit and figure out
46:26
what you want to focus on. I don't know what I want to focus
46:29
on. Okay, what's important? What lights you up? What makes you
46:33
smile? What makes you not be stressed? My kids? Okay, what is
46:37
it? What does that look like? I want to spend more time with my
46:40
kids. Okay, what are we doing that's preventing you from
46:43
spending time with your kids? Ah, with every girl. So now we
46:48
know what we got to fix.
46:49
I also I also asked the question, what I'm doing and
46:53
getting people to think about their core values, I asked what
46:55
pisses you off? What makes you angry? Because when you know,
46:59
because a lot of times people can tell you negative stuff when
47:02
they could tell you the positive things because like, it's like
47:04
something like 85% of our brain is devoted to negative thinking.
47:09
So something like that. And I always think about what, what,
47:13
what really grinds my gears, you know, what's the thing that bugs
47:16
me, because that tells me what it is what boundary I have there
47:21
and what it is, that's important to me enough to make me mad if
47:25
somebody doesn't do it. And sometimes things can come out
47:28
that way. So I love you talking about tapping into your emotion
47:32
and how you get that because it's hard with the one
47:36
disadvantage I think we have, I love all the social media, and
47:39
all the tech tools and all the things that creates such an
47:41
advantage for business owners now. But I think one
47:44
disadvantage is is how difficult it is to drown out the noise,
47:48
and how and to hear your own thoughts. And I remember when I
47:51
first started, it was after I started my law firm, and I had I
47:56
had I walked away from it, I first law firm. And I really
48:00
went through a period of personal crisis. And I was
48:02
getting a lot of advice from a lot of people. And I just made a
48:06
decision that my inner voice was so weak, I couldn't hear it.
48:13
Because I had had so much coming at me for so long. And was in
48:18
such a state of mental fog, like you talk about that I had to get
48:22
really quiet and go deep inside myself to hear what it is that I
48:28
wanted or what I could do. And it what did cut, it wasn't
48:31
immediate, it was a little tiny. It was like that little tiny
48:34
blue flame, you know, hadn't got a chance to get big enough. And
48:37
I get to be a big orange flame is like I can just feel this
48:39
little blue flame inside of me. That kind of said, Okay, I think
48:44
this is yeah, and then I just was like, putting oxygen on that
48:49
little blue flame to get it to get a little bigger, a little
48:52
bigger, and like, almost over time, and then you get a lot
48:57
more clarity. You people often think clarity comes from, I
49:02
gotta be clear before I do the thing. You got to do the thing.
49:07
And
49:09
when you do that, that's it. That's it right there. But it
49:13
really
49:13
is it that failure is the thing or that contrast is the thing
49:17
that gives you the clarity of what the next thing is you want
49:21
like you said with your five appointments that you didn't
49:25
close that will give you more freebies people,
49:29
no more freebies. And I think it all correlates to understanding
49:36
what you want and what you don't want. And you can want the Sun
49:39
Moon and stars if you want. You can want the Sun Moon and stars.
49:44
We just have to set a path for you to go to the stars first the
49:47
moon first or the sun, you direct
49:50
and enjoy the journey. Enjoy the journey.
49:53
Oh gosh. Yes. And have some great snacks along the way.
49:56
Yeah, that would be a great line to end on. except for I have one
50:01
more question I wanted to ask you, and that is that you are
50:04
the podcast guest podcast queen. And I've seen you work in the
50:09
circuit, and getting on a lot of different podcasts. And I've
50:13
been loving watching your growth and your journey along the way.
50:16
And all that, can you share? I know a lot of people, a lot of
50:19
attorneys probably would love to do that again. But they really
50:25
don't know. Like, what that first step is, they don't know
50:29
what what to do. So tell give us a little gold nugget or insight
50:35
into what, what inspired you to do this? And also, how did you
50:42
go about it?
50:44
Okay, so I have been a connoisseur for podcast since
50:48
2005 2006. Early, early when we had those are early. And then by
50:57
like 2011, I got back into it, I got like really back into
51:02
podcasting. And then I created a podcast with another lady
51:05
lawyer. And it was called professional use only. And it's
51:09
still up. So if you want to go listen to it. But one thing I
51:12
learned by doing that is what I didn't want if I was to go on
51:17
podcasting, and so when you are looking to appear more podcast
51:22
actually consumed the podcast that you want to go on. It was
51:27
through that that by creating a podcast, we got pitches and and
51:30
people requesting to be on a show with language that didn't
51:34
even correspond with our audience that didn't correspond
51:37
to what we were actually our messaging at all. And so if you
51:41
want to be on podcast, consume the podcast determine whether or
51:45
not you can actually add value to the audience. And not just I
51:50
want to go on the show because I want to go on the show. What
51:52
value are you going to instill in that audience? Right, because
51:55
with podcasting, we have so many opportunities to listen. And and
52:02
if you're not giving value, you're just going up that their
52:04
sale, nobody's going to listen to that give value. So what
52:08
value extension Are you going to have? That's what the core, what
52:11
am I going to give to an audience, then determine the
52:13
type of audience that I want? Go find the podcast that align with
52:17
the value in the audience that you have, and then figure out go
52:21
on that person's that podcast website, or see if they have an
52:25
email and genuine say, Hey, I listened to Episode 12. I took
52:30
away this. I really, really enjoyed this from that. And I am
52:37
blank. And I currently serve or assist blank. And I think I can
52:43
add value to your audience this way. Can you share what the
52:49
process is to appear? Thank you so much.
52:53
That's beautiful. That's a beautiful, beautiful aquifer. I
52:55
was taking notes on that. So they can copy and paste from the
52:59
transcript for that.
53:01
But but that's the formula. That's it. Yeah, that's
53:04
wonderful advice. And because I've recently put out a podcast
53:08
episode, just couple weeks ago on despacho,
53:11
you did how to be a good guest on a podcast. And I was like,
53:15
yes, sorry.
53:18
I am just I am shocked by how many people and I know what it
53:22
is. A lot of people hire PR firms, they do get them spots on
53:26
podcast, and I and I understand that I believe me, I'm a huge
53:30
advocate of outsourcing. But you at least need to be clear with
53:34
your PR firm that we need to have a game plan here which ones
53:38
I need to be prepared. I need to listen so I know what I can you
53:42
know what that podcast is about? Because I get um, you know, for
53:44
dentists for real estate agents or people all over, you know,
53:48
thinking all different kinds of things. I'm like, they never
53:50
listen to my podcast. But if you write me and you're like, Oh, I
53:54
listen, your podcast, I love this and that, you know, I'm a
53:56
fan, you're gonna go, it's gonna go a long way with me because I
53:59
put so much work into the podcast that it's not just going
54:05
out into the black void, and nobody's listening to it. So I
54:08
think it's so important if you want to be a guest on the
54:10
podcast, but I and I think it may be a little addicting
54:14
because, you know, once you start being a guest on podcast,
54:16
and you're talking you're having conversations, it's so fun to
54:21
have conversations with is yourself. You know, we're we're
54:25
having you're able to talk shop and, you know, share our
54:29
experiences and just getting to know each other better. It's a
54:32
great way. But a lot of work goes into having your own
54:34
podcast is as I'm sure you know.
54:37
Oh, yes. And I have. I have some other ideas and things coming
54:42
down the pike. So I hope your audience follows along on the
54:45
journey with me. As the podcasting space is definitely a
54:49
great space to be in and I value a lot of a lot of what he brings
54:53
in the value is so so important.
54:56
Yeah, it's so fun. Well, thank you so much for being here. I've
54:59
enjoyed Our conversation as much as I knew I would. Why don't you
55:04
tell everybody how they can connect with you if they want to
55:07
do that,
55:08
you can connect with me on Al Gore's internet. By finding me
55:12
on Instagram, I've spent a good portion of my time there. My IG
55:16
name is Esquire for four. I am on Facebook under my first name,
55:21
and the link will be in the show notes. I'm on LinkedIn, connect
55:25
with me there. And if you are looking to have some
55:29
intellectual property or business law questions, go to my
55:32
website, which is Andersen law. fl.com. And I have resources
55:37
there from my blog, you can get connected to my YouTube channel.
55:41
Anything you may need, if you just want to shoot me an email,
55:44
I respond. I'm very open. I'm not closed off. No question is a
55:48
dumb question. And I'll do my best to help
55:50
you. Wonderful, thank you. And you are everywhere you are how
55:56
many presidents so? They shouldn't have any trouble. And
56:00
you have a very unique name. Yes, I do. Google.
56:05
Yes, you can go Google me and I will come up. I'm the first and
56:08
only thing.
56:11
Thanks so much for being here. I really enjoyed it.
56:14
I did too. Thank you for having me.