Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom of 8-year-old girl kidnapped from Walmart superstore, murdered, breaks silence

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Mom of 8-year-old girl kidnapped from Walmart superstore, murdered, breaks silence · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious XM Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one two. Hi, that walmost un intern and taken? What
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Speaker 1: do you mean taken by stranger prior? I cannot count
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Speaker 1: the thousands of times I have taken my children their
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Speaker 1: ten now, but their whole lives, going through Walmart and
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Speaker 1: Target and Costco Home Depot, Los you name it, um
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Speaker 1: how many times I remember the time that John David
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Speaker 1: got away from me while I was looking for sun
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Speaker 1: tannelotion for them on the bottom shelf. I think back
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Speaker 1: in all those times when I would be two aisles
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Speaker 1: over and come looking for them, and then I see
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Speaker 1: the video of a beautiful little girl, Cherish Perry Winkle
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Speaker 1: in the same position my children have been in countless times,
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Speaker 1: except she did not live. She did not live. I'm
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
1:31
Speaker 1: with us, with me right now is a very special guest,
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Speaker 1: Cherishes mother Rain Perry Winkle, Rain, thank you for being
1:43
Speaker 1: with us. Thank you for having me. I want to
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Speaker 1: start with the phone call that caught the attention of
1:52
Speaker 1: the entire nation. Where did you last hear it? I
2:01
Speaker 1: met him in today Dollar General. He saw that I
2:04
Speaker 1: was struggling to buy them some clothes. Keep her elos
2:08
Speaker 1: here to buy us some clothes. And the only reason
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Speaker 1: I went with him because she said his wife was
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Speaker 1: gonna be here, because I told him I don't take
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Speaker 1: rides with strangers. Okay, I'm no remember what clothes she's
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Speaker 1: wearing because I'm panicking right now. I'm trying not the fantic, okay,
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Speaker 1: And she was laughing. What this man is? He went?
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Speaker 1: He said he was going to McDonald's and he he
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Speaker 1: hasn't been there because the store is closed right now. Okay,
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Speaker 1: is he a white man or a black man? A
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Speaker 1: white man's he's got white short hair, and he's got
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Speaker 1: dark eyebrows. Okay, dogs dogs short hair. No, he's got
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Speaker 1: white hair, his dark eyebrows. I had a strange feeling
2:57
Speaker 1: about him when I first met him, and he took
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Speaker 1: her to the He took her to the to the
3:02
Speaker 1: dressing room twice, and I was hoping that she would
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Speaker 1: be okay, and I was looking at the shoes, and
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Speaker 1: I didn't want him to think that I was overly
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Speaker 1: protective freaking out. But now they're not here, and I
3:19
Speaker 1: find it very odd because he knew that, okay, man,
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Speaker 1: what could a vehicle. Does he drive that's a white
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Speaker 1: fan that Do you remember any stickers or anything on
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Speaker 1: the side of the van, anything that you can remember
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Speaker 1: at all? Do they have tennant windows or anything? I
3:39
Speaker 1: know he's got canton in the van. And then take
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Speaker 1: a good look and he said what I Then take
3:48
Speaker 1: a good look at the beds. Okay, do you remember what?
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Speaker 1: Did you see any tag on it or anything? Don't
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Speaker 1: I want to tag? No, I didn't look at that.
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Speaker 1: They're like a fool. Okay, don't you remember what he
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Speaker 1: had on? Oh? I don't remember anything because I'm panicking
4:06
Speaker 1: right now with me everyone, for those of you just
4:08
Speaker 1: joining us here on Syria, Sex two is cherishes mother.
4:13
Speaker 1: I have wanted so badly to speak to her for
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Speaker 1: so long, you know, Rain, I want to start at
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Speaker 1: the very beginning. You were at a place I've shot
4:26
Speaker 1: so many times. Uh, family Dollar in our neighborhood. We
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Speaker 1: have a dollar tree back home and making where I'm from. Uh,
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Speaker 1: there there's a family Dollar and I am there all
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Speaker 1: the time. And while you were there, you meet a
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Speaker 1: man who you know, it's broad daylight, you don't think
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Speaker 1: anything of it, and he seems so friendly. What was
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Speaker 1: it about him that made you trust him? First of all, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: I wasn't allowed to say this in the courtroom during
5:01
Speaker 1: my testimony that I had seen him before. I had
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Speaker 1: seen him earlier that week in his van, really, but
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Speaker 1: I didn't piece it all together until after all these
5:13
Speaker 1: tragic events unfolded. It's just like a jigsaw puzzle. You
5:17
Speaker 1: have to piece it all together, and you can't always
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Speaker 1: piece it together in the same day. Sometimes it takes time.
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Speaker 1: But looking back, I saw his van rain that is
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Speaker 1: incredible to me, and not in the sense of unbelievable.
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Speaker 1: But I spoke to other women, another woman and her child,
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Speaker 1: and they had seen his white van before, and then
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Speaker 1: it approached them. I believe it was at a McDonald's
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Speaker 1: and he pretended to be a state child worker. And
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Speaker 1: that's what happened. And now I'm hearing for the very
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Speaker 1: first time you had seen him before. When what happened.
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Speaker 1: It was earlier that week. It was probably either Monday
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Speaker 1: or Tuesday of that week, because Cherish was taken on Friday,
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Speaker 1: June one, and it was just a regular day. I
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Speaker 1: wasn't thinking anything different, and I was just standing in
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Speaker 1: my living room looking at the television, and then all
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Speaker 1: of a sudden, Now at the corner of my eye,
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Speaker 1: I could see a white van moving so slowly down
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Speaker 1: my street. And it caught my attention because of the
6:24
Speaker 1: way it moved like a snail's pace. And I had
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Speaker 1: never seen that before, because first of all, there was
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Speaker 1: nothing on the road. There was no other vehicles, there
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Speaker 1: were no children walking. So I ran out there, leaned
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Speaker 1: over the rail and I said, who the hell is that?
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Speaker 1: And the van was moving so slow, And when it
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Speaker 1: got to the corner, it made a left turn and
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Speaker 1: it almost stopped. It moved that slow. And it was
6:52
Speaker 1: a couple of days after Cherish was taken. One of
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Speaker 1: our friends came over and she lives around the corner,
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Speaker 1: and she said, Rain, you know that van went Dinner Street.
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Speaker 1: And then I remembered that morning. Oh my stars, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: you know what that says to me, Cheryl McCullum, director
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Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Institute. That says to me that, um,
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Speaker 1: I find that to be up Simpottico with the facts
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Speaker 1: as we know them in other cases. So he that
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Speaker 1: means to me, Cheryl, he did not just meet them
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Speaker 1: that day in Family Dollar. He had been watching them
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Speaker 1: and likely followed them to Family Dollar. And the reason
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Speaker 1: they probably didn't want to talk about it at trials
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Speaker 1: because she didn't see his face and can't prove that
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Speaker 1: was him. And if you absolutely don't know a fact,
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Speaker 1: don't bring it into trial because you can get attacked
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Speaker 1: on it later. You know, like he could have jumped
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Speaker 1: up and said, oh I had my van in the
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Speaker 1: shop that day and and ruined, which of course would
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Speaker 1: be a lie. But what does that say to you, Cheryl,
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Speaker 1: what you're hearing right now, she would be installed. He
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Speaker 1: already made his mind up. He's a predator. Rain. It
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Speaker 1: is not your fault. It is not your fault. It
8:08
Speaker 1: is not your fault. Thank you. A lot of people
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Speaker 1: bring me this man sch his sight, own, cherish and
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Speaker 1: nothing but going to stop him. Well, you know what,
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Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that, sher all, because Rain has
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Speaker 1: gotten a lot of heat, a lot of hate for
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Speaker 1: what happened later. But I want her she couldn't do
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Speaker 1: it from the stand, to have a chance now to
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Speaker 1: speak to everyone across the country that is listening on
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Speaker 1: Serious Sex two and that may later download your words.
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Speaker 1: When you met him at Family Dollar, how did he appear,
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Speaker 1: how did he approach me? Yea, it was. It was
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Speaker 1: very strange. He had nothing in his hands. He wasn't
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Speaker 1: buying anything. He didn't have a basket or a shopping cart.
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Speaker 1: I just had a strange feeling that someone was next
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Speaker 1: to me and I was just looking at some baby
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Speaker 1: items clothes, and my children were in the toy section
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Speaker 1: of Family Dollar, and I went there a lot, so
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Speaker 1: the cashiers knew everything about my family. My children never
9:18
Speaker 1: ran too far away from me, that were always within
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Speaker 1: listening distance, okay. And so I had a strange feeling
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Speaker 1: and I look up to my right and here's this
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Speaker 1: old man leaning into my face, and he freaked me out.
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Speaker 1: And all I remember is the black on his chest
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Speaker 1: from the T shirt. From the chest up. He had
9:38
Speaker 1: the white hair and these eyes almost black, okay, and
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Speaker 1: freaked me out, and immediately I walked away from him.
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Speaker 1: But Nancy, I put it out of my mind because
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Speaker 1: I was there for cherished destiny and theya, I wasn't
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Speaker 1: there for myself. He sought us out and he probably
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Speaker 1: saw me when I was either walking and my children
10:00
Speaker 1: to or from school, because he was seen in the
10:02
Speaker 1: same area of Moncrief. I don't know. I think he
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Speaker 1: knew my pattern. He knew that I went to those stores.
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Speaker 1: So this guy comes up to you, and at first
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Speaker 1: you're taken about and because he was a little too close,
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Speaker 1: But then he strikes up a conversation and you're there
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Speaker 1: buying clothes and things for your children. That's funny that
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Speaker 1: you like to look at the children stuff, because every
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Speaker 1: time I go into um Target or Dollar Tree, I
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Speaker 1: always stop at all the children's clothes because they're so cute.
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Speaker 1: The children mine can't wear those anymore, the toddler things,
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Speaker 1: but they're so cute. Always linger and look at them.
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Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. So you're there, and
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Speaker 1: so at first you were put off by him because
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Speaker 1: he's a little too close. But then you're buying the
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Speaker 1: clothes and the items for your three girls and you're
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Speaker 1: short on money. What happens. I was short on money
10:56
Speaker 1: because my ex boyfriend gave me a one hundred dollar bill,
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Speaker 1: but I was very limited with it, Nancy, because we
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Speaker 1: had to put Cherish on the plane the next morning
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Speaker 1: at six and so, because we didn't have a vehicle
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Speaker 1: at the time, we had to put so much money
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Speaker 1: aside and say that, you know, for a taxi, and
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Speaker 1: that's why I was only allowed to spend at least
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Speaker 1: fifty or maybe forty five and leave the rest of
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Speaker 1: the money and bring it home for the cab the
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Speaker 1: next day. Where was she going the next day? Right?
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Speaker 1: She was going to California to see Billy, who was
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Speaker 1: her birth father, and she went the summer previously in
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Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve. So ran what happened next? Well,
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Speaker 1: first of all, I was shopping around the store in
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Speaker 1: Family Dollar. I was looking for a pencil sharpener, and
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Speaker 1: if they would have had one, I would have gone
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Speaker 1: straight home. And so I said, come on, girls, let's
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Speaker 1: go across the street to Dollar Generals different to find
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Speaker 1: a Family Um a pencil sharpener. And so we went.
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Speaker 1: We went over there. I found a pencil sharpener, and
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Speaker 1: I was buying hair ties and calling books and all
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Speaker 1: that stuff. And I saw a little dress that I
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Speaker 1: wanted to get my four year old and I took
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Speaker 1: it up to the counter and this demon was looking
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Speaker 1: at me, and I had this bad feeling, and I
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Speaker 1: looked over my shoulder and he is there watching me
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Speaker 1: count out money. I ended up putting the dress back
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Speaker 1: that I thought he was going to rob me. I
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Speaker 1: still Nancy, I still had not pieced together this was
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Speaker 1: the same man that was driving the van down my
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Speaker 1: street earlier that week. I still had not pieced together
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Speaker 1: that he was in Family Dollar only maybe less than
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Speaker 1: an hour earlier. But I was. I was in the
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Speaker 1: now moment, and what I thought was, I thought he
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Speaker 1: was going to rob me. So I go outside and
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Speaker 1: I've got the stroller and I'm starting to walk and
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Speaker 1: he called out to me and he yelled out, you
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Speaker 1: look like you have your hands full. And that made
13:00
Speaker 1: me upset because I really liked having my three little
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Speaker 1: children with me at all times. I took them everywhere.
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Speaker 1: And then he says, I got a couple of little ones,
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Speaker 1: and I looked at him a little closer. I kind
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Speaker 1: of tried to squint at him, thinking how old are you?
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Speaker 1: And then he said, if you really want that dress,
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Speaker 1: I'll get it for you. And I kind of thought
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Speaker 1: for a few seconds, and then he said it again,
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Speaker 1: if you really want that dress, I'll get it for you.
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Speaker 1: He said, I have a hundred and fifty dollar gift card.
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Speaker 1: I'm waiting. I'm waiting on my wife. And uh. Then
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Speaker 1: I looked at Cherish and I said, Cherish, I think
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Speaker 1: this man is trying to bless us. I think this
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Speaker 1: man is trying to what bless us do a good thing. Yes,
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Speaker 1: I thought that he was a good Semitan. I still
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Speaker 1: hadn't figured it out that he was the same guy
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Speaker 1: that creeped me out across the street, because I saw
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Speaker 1: him very quick. But looking back now, about a month later,
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Speaker 1: I went to Family Dollar in the same cashier that
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Speaker 1: was there that night of this tragedy in June. She
14:10
Speaker 1: said to me that man was following you around in
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Speaker 1: the store. And I said, why didn't you tell me?
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Speaker 1: She said, because I didn't know. See that, after all
14:18
Speaker 1: this has happened, and I can piece a lot of
14:20
Speaker 1: these little pieces together and put a lot of these
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Speaker 1: pieces together and makes more sense. He sought us out
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Speaker 1: that you couldn't possibly have known at the time. So
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Speaker 1: how do you guys get from you think he is
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Speaker 1: a good Samaritan? And how do you get from Family
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Speaker 1: Dollar over to the superstore? I hesitated. I hesitated for
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Speaker 1: probably I don't know how many minutes, but it seemed
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Speaker 1: like maybe more than twenty or twenty five minutes. I
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Speaker 1: was waiting for his wife to appear, and I didn't
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Speaker 1: want to get in that vantagetil she showed up, but
14:54
Speaker 1: he got snappy with me. He said, you don't have
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Speaker 1: to do this, and uh. Then he kind of says,
15:01
Speaker 1: do you want to see my driver's license? And I
15:03
Speaker 1: told him no because I felt he was putting me
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Speaker 1: on a guilt trip, that he's such a good person
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Speaker 1: and why would I question Why would I question him?
15:13
Speaker 1: And I was foolish, I admitted, But a lot of
15:18
Speaker 1: parents have made a mistakes. What happened in his van
15:21
Speaker 1: end route to the superstore? How did he behave? He
15:23
Speaker 1: told me I was safe. He talked about how he
15:26
Speaker 1: works for habit Jacks. That was right before I put
15:29
Speaker 1: the stroller in the van. He told me he works
15:32
Speaker 1: for habit Jacks. He volued, he volunteered that information. And
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Speaker 1: then upon hearing that, I thought he was safe, safer
15:40
Speaker 1: than when I was feeling earlier. Was very paranoid, but
15:45
Speaker 1: he had always had a way to calm me down.
15:49
Speaker 1: And then I kept thinking, well, maybe he's okay. So
15:51
Speaker 1: you get to the Walmart superstore, which is huge and
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Speaker 1: which has a they have all sorts of things in there.
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Speaker 1: They have a barbershop in there, they have um a
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Speaker 1: tire center, they have a McDonald's inside the supercenter. So
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Speaker 1: you guys get in there, and where did he say
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Speaker 1: his wife was. He never gave an explanation of where
16:14
Speaker 1: she was, but he made me feel that he was
16:17
Speaker 1: talking to her on the phone, Nancy. But it freaked
16:20
Speaker 1: me out. I mean now it freaks me out, but
16:22
Speaker 1: back then I didn't know. I thought maybe his phone
16:25
Speaker 1: was on vibrate and he just picked it up out
16:27
Speaker 1: of his pocket and started talking. He had a he
16:32
Speaker 1: had a plan to make sure I didn't have a plan,
16:36
Speaker 1: and it worked. And the and the crazy thing is
16:39
Speaker 1: this goes on more than what we realize it. It does.
16:44
Speaker 1: It really does rain. It really does. Like you say,
16:48
Speaker 1: you had no idea he was following you around and
16:53
Speaker 1: had likely been stalking you for well over a week.
16:57
Speaker 1: So you get to the Walmart superstore and you're inside.
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Speaker 1: What happens when you're inside with him? He told us
17:04
Speaker 1: to go in first. My children were getting fussy in
17:07
Speaker 1: the back seat, and uh, he says, you go in
17:12
Speaker 1: first and meet me in the little girl's section. That's
17:16
Speaker 1: what he said. So I went to the shoes section,
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Speaker 1: and I was trying on all these shoes on my children,
17:23
Speaker 1: and I was trying not to get too excited because
17:26
Speaker 1: I thought, I hope he doesn't do chus and leave
17:29
Speaker 1: me here with all this stuff and then I have
17:30
Speaker 1: to put it all back and take a taxi home.
17:33
Speaker 1: And really I didn't have enough money for a taxi
17:37
Speaker 1: because I was supposed to save that money for the
17:39
Speaker 1: next morning to go to the airport. So I was
17:41
Speaker 1: in I was in a bind then, okay, and I
17:44
Speaker 1: still kept wondering, when is his wife coming? So I
17:49
Speaker 1: left the shoes section and went to the little girl's section,
17:51
Speaker 1: and then he appears, and the first thing out of
17:54
Speaker 1: my mouth was where's your wife? And he said, oh,
17:57
Speaker 1: she's coming. I thought, oh way, because she he said
18:02
Speaker 1: she's coming. I mean, well, how far does she have
18:05
Speaker 1: to drive? So we looked around the closed section, and
18:11
Speaker 1: it seems like he wanted Cherish to have whatever clothes
18:14
Speaker 1: she wanted. And at that time I didn't know he
18:17
Speaker 1: was glooming her. But now I know the signs. Back then,
18:22
Speaker 1: people some people say I was really stupid. I should
18:26
Speaker 1: have known. Well, maybe if they were in my shoes
18:29
Speaker 1: that night, they might not have known either, because when
18:32
Speaker 1: someone approaches you with seemingly good intentions and pretends that
18:38
Speaker 1: they go to church and pretends they're a Christian. Why
18:42
Speaker 1: would you not believe them? Christians are supposed to be
18:45
Speaker 1: perfect and walking in Christ and being generous and all this,
18:51
Speaker 1: which there was a facade. Well, I have to say,
18:55
Speaker 1: as a Christian, Christians like myself and others are all,
19:01
Speaker 1: you know, pretty much sinners. And the whole reason we
19:05
Speaker 1: even try is because we we need help. I don't
19:10
Speaker 1: believe I've ever known but one perfect Christian. Um, I
19:14
Speaker 1: agree with you, Rain, I agree that when, for instance,
19:19
Speaker 1: when I take the children to church, I assume that
19:22
Speaker 1: everybody has good intentions. I don't think something bad is
19:26
Speaker 1: going to happen to them. And you know, maybe that's wrong.
19:31
Speaker 1: Well it is wrong, But I agree with you. He
19:35
Speaker 1: portrayed himself that way. It seemed as if he was
19:37
Speaker 1: trying to do a good thing for you. Guys. You
19:39
Speaker 1: had no idea this and who had been this guy?
19:43
Speaker 1: I've been stalking you for over a week. So you're
19:46
Speaker 1: in the little girl's section. He's getting wanting to get
19:48
Speaker 1: everything for Cherish. But what about the other girls? Oh,
19:52
Speaker 1: I got them all close, and I was so excited.
19:55
Speaker 1: I was getting them the same type of clothes. But
19:58
Speaker 1: in different colors, and I was putting cherishes clothes on
20:02
Speaker 1: one side of the cart and the vas clothes on
20:04
Speaker 1: the other side of the cart, in Destiny's clothes on
20:07
Speaker 1: another side of the cart, and then I had all
20:09
Speaker 1: the shoes in the middle. I recall that he kept
20:13
Speaker 1: he pointed out stiletto heels, high heels for the girls.
20:16
Speaker 1: He did. Cherish appeared to me on two different occasions
20:22
Speaker 1: with it seemed like there were adult women shoes, and
20:25
Speaker 1: at the time I didn't know that until later on
20:28
Speaker 1: I saw the shoes on the shelf. A few days later,
20:32
Speaker 1: I returned to that store, I looked for the shoes
20:34
Speaker 1: and I found them in the women's section, and I
20:36
Speaker 1: was highly, highly infuriated, and that he had the nerve
20:42
Speaker 1: to send his cherish over to me. And she said, Mommy,
20:45
Speaker 1: could I get these? And maybe he could have been
20:49
Speaker 1: a man that didn't understand that their women's shoes, but
20:52
Speaker 1: now I looked back, he knew the hell what he
20:55
Speaker 1: was doing. He was grooming Cherished because Cherish knew full oh,
21:00
Speaker 1: there'd be no way I'd let her have shoes like
21:02
Speaker 1: that that he was saying to her right in front
21:04
Speaker 1: of me. She could have whatever she wants, and now
21:09
Speaker 1: I know I was a target number one because of
21:12
Speaker 1: a single mother on foot with three little children. Number two.
21:17
Speaker 1: He knew that I was struggling for money that day,
21:21
Speaker 1: and he knew that there was no men around me.
21:24
Speaker 1: Even if my ex boyfriend was with me. I believe
21:28
Speaker 1: this demon would have left us alone. He was looking
21:30
Speaker 1: for someone vulnerable and someone with more than one child.
21:34
Speaker 1: Because when I saw those, uh those videos before I
21:39
Speaker 1: went to court, I was allowed to view them, and
21:43
Speaker 1: I realized now he was waiting for us the way
21:46
Speaker 1: he was walking around the store, flipping through a magazine,
21:50
Speaker 1: and I knew he wasn't going to buy it just
21:51
Speaker 1: by his demeanor. That's he At the time, I didn't
21:54
Speaker 1: see that. I was just focused on cherished destiny in
21:57
Speaker 1: the van. I mean ask you this, after you have
22:01
Speaker 1: been shopping for a period of time, no wife has appeared, yet,
22:04
Speaker 1: the children are getting hungry. How did you come to
22:08
Speaker 1: the decision to let Cherish go with him to McDonald's,
22:12
Speaker 1: which I want to point out is not down the street,
22:15
Speaker 1: it's not on the other side of the town. It's
22:18
Speaker 1: there in the superstore. Is Nancy? May I say something
22:22
Speaker 1: really quick? There's a big misconception about the dressing room.
22:26
Speaker 1: A lot of people that are hating on me saying
22:29
Speaker 1: you let him go to the dressing room with her.
22:31
Speaker 1: First of all, the dressing room was a clear shop
22:34
Speaker 1: from the children's section, And if you go to any
22:37
Speaker 1: Walmart you'll see what I'm talking about. You can see
22:40
Speaker 1: a clear shot of just straight there. There's no other
22:45
Speaker 1: way to get there, you know. And there was one
22:48
Speaker 1: time that I looked up and they were returning from
22:52
Speaker 1: the dressing room and he said, here, you take her
22:54
Speaker 1: next time. And the shirts didn't fit her because they
22:56
Speaker 1: were way too big. And later on at night, when
23:00
Speaker 1: I was waiting for the police to arrive, I asked
23:04
Speaker 1: one of the attendants from the dressing room and said,
23:06
Speaker 1: did he take her in there? She said no, So
23:09
Speaker 1: that cleared my mind. He did not go into the
23:11
Speaker 1: dressing room, and Cherished he walked her there, but he
23:15
Speaker 1: did not go in there. How did he bring up
23:17
Speaker 1: taking her to the McDonald's within the store. I was
23:21
Speaker 1: looking at all the clothes in the car and then
23:24
Speaker 1: I look up and Cherished comes over and stands by
23:27
Speaker 1: my left, and she said, he's got a hundred and
23:30
Speaker 1: fifty dollar gift card. And said, is that what he
23:32
Speaker 1: told you? And he walks up and he's a few
23:36
Speaker 1: feet away from me, and he he puts up his
23:39
Speaker 1: right hand like a puppet. Is what Mark Khalil, the
23:42
Speaker 1: prosecutor said, And that's exactly true. This is his gesture.
23:46
Speaker 1: He puts up his right hand very strangely and says,
23:50
Speaker 1: I'm going to McDonald's. What do you want to eat?
23:55
Speaker 1: And he never said we, he said I. And when
23:59
Speaker 1: Cher ran over to me, she asked me, what do
24:02
Speaker 1: you want to eat? And I said cheeseburgers, and then
24:05
Speaker 1: she repeated cheeseburgers and that was the last thing she said.
24:08
Speaker 1: I walked. I watched her walk away behind him, but
24:13
Speaker 1: because of how close she was to me, she would
24:18
Speaker 1: never have willingly ran away from me. And I knew
24:25
Speaker 1: that McDonald's is inside Walmart, and I thought to myself,
24:30
Speaker 1: he can't hurt her in here. There's too many cameras.
24:34
Speaker 1: But see what I've learned through this, Nancy, cameras don't
24:37
Speaker 1: stop crying. They recorded because there's so many brazen people
24:41
Speaker 1: out there, they don't care that there's a security camera.
24:44
Speaker 1: And so she followed him to McDonald's and by the
24:49
Speaker 1: time I got to the front of the store, I
24:51
Speaker 1: started the panic, and I looked through every aisle as
24:55
Speaker 1: a cash register, and they were not there. When did
24:58
Speaker 1: you get a feeling that something was wrong? Uh, Walmart
25:02
Speaker 1: was closing at eleven o'clock, but we got a we
25:05
Speaker 1: got the call on the INTERCOMT ten thirty, and so
25:09
Speaker 1: I started to walk past the shoe section because Destiny
25:12
Speaker 1: was whining for a bigger pair of shoes, and I
25:17
Speaker 1: had two little children with me, and my mind, my
25:20
Speaker 1: mind was focused on getting a pair of shoes for
25:23
Speaker 1: Destiny that sit her. And some people might say that's
25:26
Speaker 1: a selfish thing. But when I was with a man
25:29
Speaker 1: that pretended he was Christian, pretended his wife was coming,
25:34
Speaker 1: and he knew that I was struggling for clothes, I
25:36
Speaker 1: never asked him for clothes. I never asked him for
25:39
Speaker 1: money or anything. I thought he was trying to bless me,
25:42
Speaker 1: And people do that every day they bless other people.
25:46
Speaker 1: Let me ask you when you got suspicious, what made
25:50
Speaker 1: you feel something was wrong. I couldn't see them at
25:54
Speaker 1: the front of the store. There was hardly any people
25:57
Speaker 1: walking around when I was. When I left shoe section
26:00
Speaker 1: and I started to walk to the front of the store.
26:03
Speaker 1: There was maybe one or two employees, but there were
26:05
Speaker 1: no customers, and so so I started to um hasten
26:10
Speaker 1: my pace a little bit faster, and I looked down
26:13
Speaker 1: every every aisle where the cashiers are, and I couldn't
26:18
Speaker 1: even see a cashier. And then I found a lady
26:21
Speaker 1: behind the register and I and I started to put
26:24
Speaker 1: a few clothes up on the on the belt, the
26:27
Speaker 1: conveyor belt, and then I looked over to my right
26:30
Speaker 1: and I I realized there's no one there, and I
26:32
Speaker 1: said to her, hold on a minute, there's supposedly someone
26:35
Speaker 1: coming to pay for this. I said, will you watch them?
26:38
Speaker 1: And I ran over to McDonald's and I said to
26:41
Speaker 1: the young man behind the counter, I said, did you
26:44
Speaker 1: see a little girl with dark hair? And he said no.
26:48
Speaker 1: He said, call my well one, my daughter has been taken,
26:51
Speaker 1: and he just looked at me. And I started walking
26:55
Speaker 1: around looking like I was in a day looking for
26:58
Speaker 1: a phone because I didn't have one. And a lot
27:01
Speaker 1: of people say, well, why didn't you call my mo
27:03
Speaker 1: one right away? Why did you wait two hours? That
27:05
Speaker 1: wasn't true at all. People were looking at me like
27:08
Speaker 1: I was playing a game, like I wanted attention, and
27:11
Speaker 1: that was so hard. I got chill bumps right now
27:14
Speaker 1: because it takes me back. You mean it took them
27:16
Speaker 1: two hours to call nine one one. No, I made
27:20
Speaker 1: the phone call at eleven oh nine. That's the time
27:23
Speaker 1: that the prosecutor mark, he told me when I made
27:28
Speaker 1: the call, and the police arrived at eleven nineteen. But
27:33
Speaker 1: even if I did get to make that phone call earlier,
27:37
Speaker 1: I feel that the nine one one operator thought that
27:41
Speaker 1: I was playing a game. Also, just the way she
27:44
Speaker 1: spoke to me, and uh, I don't want to leave
27:48
Speaker 1: anything else. I felt that she was taking too long.
27:52
Speaker 1: I felt that she was asking too many questions. And
27:55
Speaker 1: as I do that actually Wilcot, Wilcott is with me,
27:59
Speaker 1: child wealth or a law expert, Ashley. That's true. I
28:04
Speaker 1: have played so many nine one one calls in court
28:08
Speaker 1: and they asked so many questions when you're about to
28:12
Speaker 1: jump out of your skin. They do not only do
28:15
Speaker 1: they anyone within the system does defects just the same
28:19
Speaker 1: thing that they're involved in a case. And it's almost
28:21
Speaker 1: infuriating when you listen to it, because you think talked faster,
28:25
Speaker 1: get the information, don't ask all that information. All I
28:28
Speaker 1: need is a belief officer here now? When you were
28:31
Speaker 1: desperately trying to get somebody to call nine one one,
28:34
Speaker 1: and just before that, when you looked a round rain
28:36
Speaker 1: and you saw there was hardly anybody left in the
28:41
Speaker 1: Walmart Superstar superstore? What went through your mind and body.
28:46
Speaker 1: I knew he'd taken her outside, and I knew she
28:51
Speaker 1: was with a very dangerous individual. There's nothing I could
28:53
Speaker 1: do to stop it. And I was freaking out, but
28:55
Speaker 1: trying to not scream too loud because as it was,
29:00
Speaker 1: we're just staring at me like they're thinking, what is
29:02
Speaker 1: wrong with you? And it was a female Walmart employee
29:06
Speaker 1: that walked over with her cell phone and said, here,
29:08
Speaker 1: use my phone, and I took the phone outside and
29:11
Speaker 1: I called nine one. When the police got there ten
29:14
Speaker 1: minutes after the phone call, did they at first think
29:17
Speaker 1: this was some some ruse, some trick to do with
29:20
Speaker 1: custody because you didn't want your daughter to go to California?
29:23
Speaker 1: I did. Two detectives were there that night, Detective Alexander,
29:30
Speaker 1: the detective Cohen. And Detective Alexander walked up to me.
29:36
Speaker 1: I was sitting on one of those little benches and
29:38
Speaker 1: he said, hi, Miss Perrywinkle, this is Detective Alexander. And
29:43
Speaker 1: I looked up at him and um, he said, I've
29:48
Speaker 1: got something to show you, and he took me over
29:51
Speaker 1: to this laptop. We did not go to a police substation.
29:55
Speaker 1: We were inside Walmart sitting down, okay and h they
30:01
Speaker 1: stepped down with these two detectives and they brought up
30:04
Speaker 1: the laptop and I had described the then and they
30:10
Speaker 1: asked me what is this individual's name? And I told
30:13
Speaker 1: I told them okay, and they they flashed a picture
30:18
Speaker 1: of him and I identified him in a lineup, and
30:22
Speaker 1: then he flashed another hold on. You know what that means.
30:27
Speaker 1: You know clearly what that means. Alexis Torres chuck writer
30:31
Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter. When they have his photo,
30:37
Speaker 1: that means only one thing, alexis he is a criminal.
30:42
Speaker 1: He was actually released from jail just twenty one days
30:46
Speaker 1: before that. He had been on the sex offender Registry
30:49
Speaker 1: lists since. And alexis for posing as a child welfare worker,
30:57
Speaker 1: which I'm sure is going to infuriate as she Willcott.
31:01
Speaker 1: And he got some little girl on the phone and
31:03
Speaker 1: started actually asking her sexual questions, pretending to be a
31:08
Speaker 1: child welfare worker, which was one of the things for
31:13
Speaker 1: which he was convicted. Alexis and the thing is is
31:17
Speaker 1: that the police knew immediately who this man was. When
31:21
Speaker 1: when when Rain described him, they knew immediately he was
31:24
Speaker 1: known to them in this community as somebody who was
31:27
Speaker 1: a predator, and this is what horrific, But they knew
31:34
Speaker 1: and this was such a failure of the system to
31:36
Speaker 1: Rain Periwinkle. For those of you just joining us, Rain
31:40
Speaker 1: is the mother three little girls, including cherished Periwinkle, who
31:44
Speaker 1: was kidnapped from a Walmart superstore, assaulted and murdered. Rain
31:51
Speaker 1: when you saw his face, what did you say? What
31:55
Speaker 1: did you think when you saw the police pull his
31:58
Speaker 1: face up on their laptop. I thought, she's very She's
32:01
Speaker 1: with a very dangerous individual. That's my feeling. As soon
32:05
Speaker 1: as I saw his face, I identified him and then
32:08
Speaker 1: they flashed another picture. I said, is that his driver's license?
32:12
Speaker 1: And the response was yes. And then my question was
32:16
Speaker 1: is he a sex offender? Detective Alexander said yes, And
32:20
Speaker 1: I jumped from my feet and put my head down
32:23
Speaker 1: and screamed and I said, she's not coming, Oh, you know, fruitless,
32:34
Speaker 1: he said, this feeling of dread. He's already got her outside.
32:38
Speaker 1: She's not coming home. But I knew she wasn't far away.
32:41
Speaker 1: She couldn't have been too far away within those few minutes.
32:45
Speaker 1: I just wanted them to just hurry up and get
32:48
Speaker 1: out there. The detective Colin looked at me, what did
32:53
Speaker 1: they do? Looked at me. He said, you did it.
32:56
Speaker 1: I know you did it, and you're going to it's
32:59
Speaker 1: detective Owen. Yes he did. He looked at me. He said,
33:03
Speaker 1: you did it. I know you did it, and you're
33:05
Speaker 1: going to prison. I said, no, I didn't. He said, yes,
33:07
Speaker 1: you did, and you're going to prison. And I said,
33:10
Speaker 1: why do you think I did it? He said, because
33:12
Speaker 1: you're not rolling around. I'm gathering, rolling around on the floor, screaming.
33:18
Speaker 1: Why should I have to do that? When I'm telling
33:21
Speaker 1: them this old man took my daughter out of the
33:24
Speaker 1: store and he has intentions. I've felt it. I knew
33:28
Speaker 1: it right then. Why else would he take her outside
33:32
Speaker 1: that time and night? Why else would he take her outside?
33:36
Speaker 1: And I know now why he waited so long. He
33:40
Speaker 1: could have taken her out when we first got there.
33:42
Speaker 1: There were too many people around. He was waiting for
33:45
Speaker 1: the store's close, and I didn't know that then what
33:48
Speaker 1: happened next? I wasn't allowed to leave all night, had
33:52
Speaker 1: stayed there with Destiny into there. So you're sitting there
33:56
Speaker 1: at the Walmart superstore overnight with the girls. When did
34:02
Speaker 1: you learn police had found Cherish? What happened next morning?
34:09
Speaker 1: I had had a bad feeling. I couldn't sleep all night.
34:12
Speaker 1: I we went home about I want to say, before
34:16
Speaker 1: six am the next morning, and police officer drove us
34:20
Speaker 1: home and I sat in front of the television because
34:23
Speaker 1: I just couldn't stomach doing anything now, so I couldn't
34:27
Speaker 1: even eat, and I sat there and watched and for
34:31
Speaker 1: the Amber alert, all it had was a description. It
34:34
Speaker 1: did not have a picture or anything. When did you
34:37
Speaker 1: learn they had found Cherish? Homicide? UM officer came to
34:44
Speaker 1: the door and immediately as soon as I knew he
34:47
Speaker 1: was from homicide, he sat down in front of me
34:50
Speaker 1: and he said, we found a little body. You know
34:57
Speaker 1: where he was? And I started screaming and I ran
35:01
Speaker 1: outside and some of the grass. Immediately I lost it.
35:05
Speaker 1: There was no one around it, just the grass and
35:07
Speaker 1: I just making contact with that grass, just pulling in it,
35:12
Speaker 1: just screaming how could this be? But I felt it
35:16
Speaker 1: to see because it was just too weird. After he
35:19
Speaker 1: walked out of the store, I lost on my face
35:22
Speaker 1: at Nancy and these wonderful people that are with you
35:27
Speaker 1: right now on your staff. I was praying to God
35:30
Speaker 1: all night. I was pacing in front of those cash
35:33
Speaker 1: registers and I had my hands up to my face saying,
35:37
Speaker 1: please God, bring you who I'm not in the box,
35:41
Speaker 1: Not in the box. M I wanted to bring you home,
35:48
Speaker 1: but they took too long with me. Is Rain Perry
35:53
Speaker 1: went old, this is cherishes mother and she has taken
36:00
Speaker 1: so much abuse and heat and ugly talk about her
36:08
Speaker 1: daughter going with this truly a monster from hell. But
36:16
Speaker 1: you know what he looks like any other guy you
36:21
Speaker 1: might meet it Costco or Target, or a senior citizen
36:27
Speaker 1: who offered to help her. And they were just going
36:33
Speaker 1: within the store to the store McDonald's, just to get
36:38
Speaker 1: a cheeseburger. And I gotta say, Cheryl McCullum, my longtime friend,
36:45
Speaker 1: director of the Cold Case Institute. You know, as a lawyer,
36:51
Speaker 1: I'm trained to always say the right thing, at least
36:53
Speaker 1: in court anyway, But when I hear talking, this is
37:00
Speaker 1: the way it happens. This is the way it happened
37:02
Speaker 1: to me when my fiance was murdered. This is the
37:04
Speaker 1: way it happens. You think it's a normal day, you
37:07
Speaker 1: think everything is all right and everything's fine, and then
37:11
Speaker 1: all of a sudden your world changes and it's never
37:16
Speaker 1: the same again. You're right, Nancy. And here's the thing.
37:21
Speaker 1: This man made his mind up of what he was
37:24
Speaker 1: going to do. He took the back seat out of
37:28
Speaker 1: his van to prepare. He stalked them for a week.
37:32
Speaker 1: If it had not been Cherished Periwinkle, it would have
37:37
Speaker 1: been another child. He would not have stopped. And we
37:41
Speaker 1: can look for blame if we want to, but there's
37:44
Speaker 1: nobody to blame in the case of Adam Walsh except
37:48
Speaker 1: the person that killed him, or Amber Haggerman, except the
37:51
Speaker 1: person that killed her, or lead by Fredi, except the
37:55
Speaker 1: person that killed him and cherished Periwinkle. The only person
37:59
Speaker 1: to blame is the person that killed her, Period Rain.
38:06
Speaker 1: I just want to know. I wish I could hug you, Nancy.
38:11
Speaker 1: I do too too, I just I wish I could
38:15
Speaker 1: hug you, Dancy, just what you've been I don't know
38:18
Speaker 1: what it's like to have that happen to me. Let
38:20
Speaker 1: me tell you something rain. It was awful, But I
38:25
Speaker 1: have to say that now I have children, what you
38:28
Speaker 1: went through has got to be the worst thing on
38:33
Speaker 1: earth is to see child harmed. It's I don't think
38:39
Speaker 1: anything you could could ever compare to that. And I
38:44
Speaker 1: just don't know how you made it through her funeral
38:48
Speaker 1: and how you made it through that horrible trial. I
38:51
Speaker 1: was screaming though during those times, Nancy, as you probably
38:55
Speaker 1: were screaming when that atrocious act was placed on your fiance.
39:01
Speaker 1: I don't know how else to say it. I hate
39:03
Speaker 1: saying the word murder. It's just, you know, I know
39:07
Speaker 1: what happened, but to come to terms with it, there's
39:11
Speaker 1: times where I go numb and I don't feel anything.
39:14
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that to sound callous. It's how
39:19
Speaker 1: it's how I deal with it. And for the first
39:22
Speaker 1: year I screamed every day. And when I lived in
39:26
Speaker 1: my house before I had to leave, I I lost
39:29
Speaker 1: everything over this. And when I was still in my
39:30
Speaker 1: house for a month, I had no electricity and I
39:34
Speaker 1: lost all my furniture. I lost everything. But I would
39:37
Speaker 1: go to bed every night screaming and wake up every
39:39
Speaker 1: morning screaming because the pain was just so bad. Back then,
39:44
Speaker 1: and I would pound the walls and scream out, I
39:47
Speaker 1: hate you mother ever, You're going to burn in hell
39:49
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And I could say his name
39:51
Speaker 1: back then, but I rarely say his name now, and
39:56
Speaker 1: Rain that is so odd because I never speak the
40:00
Speaker 1: name of the man that killed Keith. I never speak it.
40:04
Speaker 1: I try not even think about it. I have never
40:09
Speaker 1: gone back to the spot where Keith was murdered because
40:13
Speaker 1: it's so painful, and now I have the twins to
40:17
Speaker 1: live for, and when I think of it, it sucks
40:21
Speaker 1: me into a depression and in such a horrible place
40:26
Speaker 1: that if I go there, I feel like I might
40:28
Speaker 1: not be able to come back. I want to understand
40:31
Speaker 1: how you get through the day. Now, What did you
40:35
Speaker 1: tell your other two girls about Cherish? We were sitting,
40:40
Speaker 1: we were sitting in Walmart that night, and I told
40:43
Speaker 1: him an old man took Cherish out of the store
40:46
Speaker 1: and they were too little. They didn't really understand too much. Back, dude,
40:49
Speaker 1: have you felt that Cherish has tried to communicate with you?
40:55
Speaker 1: You know, extrange that you ask that because a lot
40:57
Speaker 1: of people that have been through this, whether it be
41:01
Speaker 1: their fiancee, whether it be a parent, relative or a child.
41:07
Speaker 1: They will they will say certain things that it could
41:11
Speaker 1: be taken as well as she's just having a dream. No,
41:18
Speaker 1: there were at least two different incidences where I felt her.
41:23
Speaker 1: I touched a picture. I think it was a day
41:26
Speaker 1: or two after she was taken, and there was a
41:28
Speaker 1: picture of her on my wall and I just touched
41:31
Speaker 1: her her face and I said to her cherished, told
41:34
Speaker 1: me where that man took you. And within a few
41:38
Speaker 1: seconds I just was trying to be quiet, and I
41:42
Speaker 1: had a thought he took me to a house with
41:45
Speaker 1: a dog and the house was white. Well after the
41:50
Speaker 1: stroller was found, I asked Mark Khalil a few days ago,
41:57
Speaker 1: was that house white? And he said, well, I it
42:00
Speaker 1: come onb Was it white or was it off white?
42:02
Speaker 1: And he said yes. So I take that information is
42:07
Speaker 1: that she was trying to tell me, and I can't
42:10
Speaker 1: prove it. It's just what I felt at the time.
42:13
Speaker 1: And a lot of little children like dogs, even though
42:17
Speaker 1: I don't like dogs around my children because they could
42:19
Speaker 1: get bitten by them. But I don't believe that he
42:22
Speaker 1: did this act in the vent. I think that he
42:25
Speaker 1: had to have some elbow room. I think he had
42:28
Speaker 1: to have a lot of space, and he had took
42:31
Speaker 1: time to think about it. Rain, what was the most
42:35
Speaker 1: painful part for you as you endured the trial of
42:39
Speaker 1: Donald Smith. Ah, that's a good question. The worst day
42:46
Speaker 1: was the Tuesday, the following day. First of all, after
42:50
Speaker 1: my testimony, I went to an empty room and I
42:54
Speaker 1: watched Officer Wilkie. He had found chesh and I fell
42:58
Speaker 1: on the floor screaming at his testimony. So that was
43:02
Speaker 1: extremely difficult. But you're asking me what was the worst day.
43:07
Speaker 1: It was on the Tuesday when Dr Rao was talking
43:12
Speaker 1: about Cherishes injuries and uh I was on the fourth screaming.
43:17
Speaker 1: For that, I knew I couldn't sit in the courtroom
43:20
Speaker 1: and her injuries were far worse than I thought. Rain,
43:26
Speaker 1: take a listen as a verdict is handed down Donald
43:30
Speaker 1: James verdict count one. During the guilty of first Screamer
43:35
Speaker 1: asked turing in the inditement, we rather finally killing was premeditated?
43:40
Speaker 1: We read probably killing during the chusial the fella your
43:46
Speaker 1: special battery to get to keep at and harshly invad
43:53
Speaker 1: we dad him was on the Kyar stage at the
43:56
Speaker 1: time of the office. We find the defendant a special
43:59
Speaker 1: bat during the three we can dreaders and a Kia
44:08
Speaker 1: special Barrea from the first month and seller than me
44:10
Speaker 1: as during the United y'all have gal fora the war
44:16
Speaker 1: or February fourteen, Ashley Willcott final thoughts. Sure first all
44:23
Speaker 1: all my thoughts and fairst ha Reign and her family,
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Speaker 1: the siblings, everyone. But we have got to be more
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Speaker 1: diligent as people as a system to identify these perpetrators,
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Speaker 1: to believe parents when they say, hey, something's happened to
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Speaker 1: my child, to protect, to investigate, to arrest, to convict,
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Speaker 1: and then not to release perpetrators and pedophiles who are
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Speaker 1: so prolific like this man was. And we have to
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Speaker 1: do all of that with crazy urgency. The second thing
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Speaker 1: I would say is trust your gut and others need
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Speaker 1: to trust it to all of us know deep in
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Speaker 1: our gut when something's happened, and if if others would
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Speaker 1: trust that as well, it goes a long way to
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Speaker 1: improving the system response that failed in this case. Cheryl McCollum.
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Speaker 1: When it comes to your children, don't trust anybody. Don't
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Speaker 1: trust the family they want to go up in the
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Speaker 1: night with because it's their best friends. Don't trust the preacher.
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Speaker 1: Don't trust the boy scout leader. I care who it is.
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Speaker 1: You make sure that you as you know the oversight
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Speaker 1: of your child all the time. I mean, that's just
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Speaker 1: a scary reality. Because I'm gonna say again, this is
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Speaker 1: not Raine's fault. This person set their side only cherished
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Speaker 1: periwinkle period rain my last question, final thought. I miss everything.
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Speaker 1: She would sing a lot, and sometimes she would annoy me.
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Speaker 1: Looking back now, I'm so sorry, because children can be annoying, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: little children can be annoying. Sometimes you'd have you'd have
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Speaker 1: your days where you'd say, get away from me, got
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Speaker 1: a bead. But looking back, I miss everything. I miss
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Speaker 1: it when they scribbled on the wall in their bedroom.
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Speaker 1: I miss it when that we're running around the yard
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Speaker 1: playing with all those cats we had. And I missed
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Speaker 1: taking them to school. I miss diaper changes, I miss breastfeeding.
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Speaker 1: I miss everything. And for some people to say I
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Speaker 1: wish my child would grow up and and I'm tired
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Speaker 1: of this. Just please, I hate saying the word cherished.
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Speaker 1: I only use it for her name, But just please
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Speaker 1: revel in if that's a good word. Just appreciate what
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Speaker 1: you have with your children now, because one day they
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Speaker 1: may not be here. I want to thank Rain Perrywinkle
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Speaker 1: for your running US today. God bless you. Nancy Grace
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend M.