Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Female Firsts: Homai Vyarawalla

Transcript

Female Firsts: Homai Vyarawalla · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and SMITHA. I'm welcome to stuff.
0:07
Speaker 2: I never told you production, but iHeart radio and just
0:19
Speaker 2: time for another edition of Female First, which means we
0:21
Speaker 2: are once again joined by You're gregarious, the grounded eaves,
0:25
Speaker 2: Welcome Eves.
0:27
Speaker 3: Thank you for that introduction, Thank you for the welcome Grounded.
0:30
Speaker 1: That's right, Oh, I bought I was big word grounded, gregarious, gregarious.
0:36
Speaker 1: I think you're grounded. I appreciate that you are very grounded.
0:39
Speaker 1: I will give you that.
0:40
Speaker 3: I feel like it varies from moment to moment.
0:42
Speaker 2: That's true. I think that's a fair thing all of
0:45
Speaker 2: us in general. You know, some some days you have
0:49
Speaker 2: to day you're not so grounded, and that's just how
0:51
Speaker 2: it is. We're all making it through the best we can.
0:55
Speaker 2: H Well, we are always always happy to have you. E.
1:01
Speaker 2: What have you been up to since the last time
1:02
Speaker 2: we spoke a lot?
1:06
Speaker 3: I am just getting back to Georgia from I was
1:10
Speaker 3: on the West coast for like a month, So I
1:12
Speaker 3: went from northern California in Sonoma County, like chilling looking
1:19
Speaker 3: at the nice view, staring at a vineyard across the street,
1:22
Speaker 3: hanging out with two cats, like living a very living
1:26
Speaker 3: a very peaceful. Oh there was a garden. I picked
1:30
Speaker 3: like fresh stuff from their garden every day at the
1:32
Speaker 3: house I was staying at.
1:34
Speaker 1: It was really really lovely.
1:36
Speaker 3: And then did a little hop skip to San Francisco
1:39
Speaker 3: to a day to see a band, and then it
1:43
Speaker 3: was a show that I was trying to catch and
1:45
Speaker 3: it just like worked out perfectly to the one day
1:47
Speaker 3: I had between cities. It just so happened that was
1:49
Speaker 3: the day they were performing in the city that was
1:51
Speaker 3: closest to me. So yeah, So I did that, and
1:54
Speaker 3: then I went over to Seattle and spent two weeks
1:57
Speaker 3: there at a couple of friends home house sitting for them,
2:02
Speaker 3: and that was the last month for me. I got
2:06
Speaker 3: back earlier this month and that was a nice time
2:09
Speaker 3: in Seattle too, Like it was like my third time
2:12
Speaker 3: there this year, so I was like coming back hanging
2:14
Speaker 3: out with some folks.
2:15
Speaker 1: I felt like I.
2:16
Speaker 3: Was going on a bunch of go sees to friends,
2:20
Speaker 3: like hanging out with friends while I was there. But
2:23
Speaker 3: it was really nice.
2:24
Speaker 1: I enjoyed it. See there's that gregariousness.
2:30
Speaker 2: And you are coming at us from a library, and
2:33
Speaker 2: we were just talking about how amazing libraries are.
2:38
Speaker 3: Yes, if you start me on this subject, I will
2:40
Speaker 3: never end. So I'm gonna, yes, we're all big fans.
2:44
Speaker 3: I'm going to stay succinct. But I was just telling
2:46
Speaker 3: them how there are so many different resources at different libraries.
2:51
Speaker 3: And I was just telling them how I noticed in
2:52
Speaker 3: certain parts of towns some are more well resourced than others.
2:56
Speaker 3: But I mean, just I think the message here is
2:59
Speaker 3: just to explore or all the libraries that you can
3:01
Speaker 3: get to, because some might have things that you never
3:05
Speaker 3: knew you want it, and you can go to them
3:07
Speaker 3: and get them. The one that I'm at now has
3:10
Speaker 3: craft classes and a craft room with sewing machines and
3:14
Speaker 3: supplies already there. So if you don't have space at home,
3:17
Speaker 3: or if you don't have objects, like you don't have
3:20
Speaker 3: a sewing machine, you don't have a button press, you
3:22
Speaker 3: don't have things you need to make it, maybe your
3:24
Speaker 3: library does. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe there's another one in
3:27
Speaker 3: an area close to you that does. But they just
3:29
Speaker 3: I just love libraries so much. Shout out to all
3:32
Speaker 3: the librarians, like shout out, shout out to them, like
3:36
Speaker 3: I love libraries.
3:38
Speaker 1: Yes we do too.
3:39
Speaker 2: I feel like every time Samitha and I have traveled together,
3:41
Speaker 2: we have stopped at a library, We've gone out of
3:44
Speaker 2: our way just.
3:46
Speaker 1: They're so cool. They're so cool, aren't they?
3:48
Speaker 2: Speaking of I love the person you bought today. I
3:53
Speaker 2: really enjoyed looking at the photography. It was a wonderful
3:58
Speaker 2: excuse to look at some just stunning photography. So I
4:02
Speaker 2: can't wait to talk about it. Who did you bring
4:04
Speaker 2: for us today?
4:05
Speaker 1: Eves?
4:06
Speaker 3: Today we are talking about homey Vera Wala, and I
4:10
Speaker 3: am so excited to talk about her too. I was
4:13
Speaker 3: really excited to find her work because I wasn't familiar
4:17
Speaker 3: with her before I started looking up her story. She
4:22
Speaker 3: was India's first female photo journalist and she was good
4:26
Speaker 3: at her job. That you can find some photos of
4:29
Speaker 3: hers online, Go look through them, enjoy them. It's like,
4:34
Speaker 3: of course, photojournalism is always it captures a time so
4:38
Speaker 3: beautifully and Home I really enjoyed her job while she
4:43
Speaker 3: was doing it, and she had a long and illustrious career.
4:45
Speaker 3: So I too, am so excited to talk about her.
4:48
Speaker 3: I have so much to say, Like I don't even
4:49
Speaker 3: know if we have enough time to get through her
4:52
Speaker 3: entire story, but I do want to say that for
4:55
Speaker 3: this I used a lot of India and Focused Camera
4:59
Speaker 3: Chronicles of Homai Vera Wala. It's a book by Sabina
5:02
Speaker 3: Gotti hook I hope I'm pronouncing that last name correctly,
5:05
Speaker 3: But if you look up that name India and Focus
5:08
Speaker 3: Camera Chronicles of Homai Vera Wala. A lot of the
5:11
Speaker 3: info that I'm going to be saying today I got
5:13
Speaker 3: from that book and it is. If you can get
5:15
Speaker 3: your hands on a copy of that book, just look
5:18
Speaker 3: through the pictures in there, because it's all compounded in
5:23
Speaker 3: there in a in a comprehensive way. So if if
5:28
Speaker 3: you can find that book, get it, read it, look
5:31
Speaker 3: at the photos.
5:31
Speaker 2: It's really really lovely. Maybe request it at your local library. Yes, yes,
5:38
Speaker 2: but should we get into the history.
5:41
Speaker 1: Yes.
5:42
Speaker 3: So Hamai was born on December ninth, nineteen thirteen. Her
5:46
Speaker 3: parents were Dasabi and Sunami ha Tiram. Her father, Dasabi
5:52
Speaker 3: was a painter, but he did turn to acting for
5:54
Speaker 3: work since that was what was going to pay the bills.
5:57
Speaker 3: He worked with the Traveling Parsi Theater Come Company. And
6:00
Speaker 3: you'll hear Parsi come up again in this conversation because
6:03
Speaker 3: her family was Parsi. The Parsis are people who descended
6:06
Speaker 3: from Persian Zoroastrians who fled to India to avoid religious persecution.
6:12
Speaker 3: So when Helmi was a baby, she went around with
6:16
Speaker 3: her father's troop across India and Southeast Asia. And she
6:21
Speaker 3: had two brothers, but they were sent to live with
6:23
Speaker 3: their grandparents in Bombay, which is now Mumbai. You hear
6:27
Speaker 3: me refer to some of these cities and their colonial names,
6:30
Speaker 3: that's because that's what they were called at this time.
6:33
Speaker 3: But I'll also refer to their modern names when they
6:37
Speaker 3: first come up, just so y'all know. But when Hami
6:40
Speaker 3: turned two years old, an astrologer predicted that she was
6:44
Speaker 3: destined to walk among royalty and important people. I love
6:48
Speaker 3: that part of her story. But Hemi knew or do.
6:53
Speaker 3: Her parents were intent on her learning English though she
6:57
Speaker 3: enrolled in the Grand Road High School and when she
7:01
Speaker 3: enrolled there were only six or seven girls in her school,
7:05
Speaker 3: but by the time she was about to graduate, she
7:08
Speaker 3: was the only girl in a class of thirty five boys.
7:12
Speaker 3: And while they were in Bombay, the family moved from
7:15
Speaker 3: one house to the next depending on how their money
7:17
Speaker 3: was doing. But as as far as home, iid like
7:22
Speaker 3: people considered her well dressed, and she said that it
7:26
Speaker 3: was her job every Sunday to wash the saris. Sometimes
7:31
Speaker 3: she would make clothing. She would stitch matching blouse with
7:35
Speaker 3: a bunch of cloth. But still at this time the
7:38
Speaker 3: family didn't have a whole ton of money. When her
7:42
Speaker 3: school fee was increased up to seven rupees, she told
7:46
Speaker 3: the headmaster that she was going to drop out, but
7:48
Speaker 3: he ended up making an exception for her and she
7:51
Speaker 3: only had to pay a little bit over through three
7:54
Speaker 3: rupees for the rest of the time she was in school.
7:57
Speaker 3: So just for a little background or her school experience.
8:00
Speaker 3: In the Parsi schools, it was encouraged for children often
8:05
Speaker 3: not to become involved in politics, and Homi couldn't wear
8:11
Speaker 3: a cotton sorry because of his associations with the nationalist movement,
8:16
Speaker 3: and at the time Parsis were kind of thought of
8:18
Speaker 3: as being friendly to the Indians and loyal to the British.
8:23
Speaker 3: But in terms of her home life, in nineteen thirty one,
8:27
Speaker 3: her father found out that his theater company was shutting
8:30
Speaker 3: down and Helmi did pass her exams and he wrote
8:37
Speaker 3: a letter to Homi. Her dad did and he said
8:40
Speaker 3: he was proud of her, but he was sorry that
8:42
Speaker 3: he couldn't send her any money to help with her tuition,
8:47
Speaker 3: and in his last letter he mentioned that the owner
8:50
Speaker 3: of the theater company hadn't responded about paying him. And
8:54
Speaker 3: just so y'all know too. If y'all get your hands
8:56
Speaker 3: on that book, you can there are some images of
8:58
Speaker 3: some of those letters as well, so you can kind
9:00
Speaker 3: of read through those. But her father was in Burma
9:05
Speaker 3: which is now me and Mar and he was really
9:08
Speaker 3: sick and he finally had gathered up enough money to
9:12
Speaker 3: return home, but he died soon after he had surgery
9:16
Speaker 3: at a hospital in Bombay. Unfortunately, Homi was pretty young
9:21
Speaker 3: at the time, so her mother wore a black sorry
9:25
Speaker 3: a lot. She didn't leave the house much after that happened.
9:29
Speaker 3: But Homai was getting older and so she met someone
9:34
Speaker 3: named Menekshaw in nineteen twenty six at a railway station
9:40
Speaker 3: and he was playing with developing film and so Homai
9:45
Speaker 3: ended up getting into that too, and they also got
9:48
Speaker 3: into a relationship. So this is the beginnings of her
9:53
Speaker 3: interest in photography. Anyway, Homi attended Saint Xavier's in Bombay
9:58
Speaker 3: for economics for a couple of years, and at first
10:02
Speaker 3: her college education was funded by a scholarship from a
10:04
Speaker 3: Parsi charity. She also went to the school called the
10:08
Speaker 3: JJS School of Arts to get a diploma in the
10:11
Speaker 3: arts teacher's course, and while she was at that school,
10:15
Speaker 3: she would take photos of the activities there and she
10:18
Speaker 3: borrowed one of Manekshaw's cameras to take the photos. She
10:23
Speaker 3: later said that the training that she got while she
10:25
Speaker 3: was there in classical composition was really helpful for her photography.
10:30
Speaker 3: And so at the time Homey and meneck Shaws, their
10:33
Speaker 3: photos were getting them about one or two rupees per print,
10:38
Speaker 3: so she was getting paid for her photos, even though
10:41
Speaker 3: it was a little at the time, she was getting paid,
10:44
Speaker 3: and she said that the first thing they would do
10:46
Speaker 3: with their money is go to the movie theater. Some
10:49
Speaker 3: of the movies that home I liked were been her
10:52
Speaker 3: Going with the Wind, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Scarface,
10:55
Speaker 3: and some other movies. So she clearly had a y range. Yeah,
11:00
Speaker 3: I know, Samantha's like, huh, that's a that's an interesting variety.
11:05
Speaker 1: Broad Scarface and gone with that eclectic.
11:20
Speaker 3: Homi began her career in photography by assisting Manekshaw and
11:25
Speaker 3: her photos and accompanying text. They were initially printed under
11:31
Speaker 3: his name and they were credited with his initials. So
11:34
Speaker 3: some of the photos you'll see if you look at
11:36
Speaker 3: the clips, you'll see his initials under them. But she
11:41
Speaker 3: took them. But Holmi was less interested in studio photography,
11:46
Speaker 3: which she called armchair photography, and so she was she
11:51
Speaker 3: was she already kind of knew her lane from early on,
11:54
Speaker 3: it seemed like in her In the thirties and the forties,
11:57
Speaker 3: she took photos of urban and suburb urban life and Bombay.
12:01
Speaker 3: Some of her early photos were published in Parsi newspapers
12:05
Speaker 3: and she and Manekshaw took photos of the streets, festivals,
12:09
Speaker 3: and the work in day to day activities of the
12:12
Speaker 3: people who lived in those places. When World War two began,
12:17
Speaker 3: she put together photo stories on the war effort, and
12:21
Speaker 3: a lot of these stories were first printed in the
12:23
Speaker 3: Illustrated Weekly of India. And that weekly was edited by
12:29
Speaker 3: an English guy and often uplifted British interests in India
12:34
Speaker 3: and British supported media needed to encourage Indians to support
12:38
Speaker 3: the British war effort, even though Indians at the time
12:42
Speaker 3: were also organizing for their own independence from the British,
12:47
Speaker 3: but Helmi ended up marrying Menekshaw on January nineteenth, nineteen
12:51
Speaker 3: forty one, and she continued to take pictures. So in
12:56
Speaker 3: some of her earlier spreads she would also show Parsi
12:58
Speaker 3: women who were trained for rescue activities during the war.
13:02
Speaker 3: She also showed women in domestic and public life in
13:06
Speaker 3: other ways. Most of those women in there were Parsi
13:09
Speaker 3: and British women, and eventually Menekshaw was offered a job
13:14
Speaker 3: with the Far Eastern Bureau, so they moved from Bombay
13:18
Speaker 3: to Delhi when Homai was seven months pregnant. She ended
13:21
Speaker 3: up having her child. It was a son named for Rouke,
13:25
Speaker 3: and so the family dynamic started to change. She had
13:28
Speaker 3: a family, she was growing her family, and Menexshaw was
13:32
Speaker 3: managing the family's money. He though, wasn't as adventurous and
13:36
Speaker 3: social as Homi. He kind of went from the home
13:40
Speaker 3: to the office and back, which meant that Homi kind
13:42
Speaker 3: of had to be like that too. But she did
13:47
Speaker 3: work as a press photographer for the British Information Services
13:51
Speaker 3: and she did that all the way up until nineteen
13:53
Speaker 3: fifty one, and afterwards she continued to work for them
13:55
Speaker 3: as a freelancer, but we'll get to that a little later.
13:58
Speaker 3: But yeah, she worked really hard to balance her photography
14:01
Speaker 3: life in her home life, and she would do a
14:04
Speaker 3: lot of dark room work as well. She would be
14:06
Speaker 3: up at like four point thirty in the morning to
14:09
Speaker 3: get milk, and then she would get back after midnight
14:11
Speaker 3: after photographing some event, and then she's so here's a
14:15
Speaker 3: quote from her. She said this, I would be rushing
14:18
Speaker 3: between the kitchen where something was cooking in the dark
14:21
Speaker 3: room where I was developing. And she also said this,
14:24
Speaker 3: in the meantime, the phone would ring and I would
14:27
Speaker 3: have to change and rush out to take pictures, and
14:30
Speaker 3: then she would go on to say later I would
14:32
Speaker 3: return to the half cooked food and change again. It
14:34
Speaker 3: was a mad rush, but fun. So that feels like
14:37
Speaker 3: a great like imagery, really like a tangible way of
14:41
Speaker 3: feeling how between her foot, how much she was going
14:44
Speaker 3: between her photography life and her home life, Like she
14:47
Speaker 3: was literally putting down some of the domestic activities that
14:50
Speaker 3: she was doing going out to photograph and coming back.
14:55
Speaker 3: So I mean, man, I mean that sounds tiring to me,
14:59
Speaker 3: but she was doing it, and she was doing it often.
15:03
Speaker 3: But in terms of her own personal interest. She liked
15:05
Speaker 3: crime and detective books. She also liked reading books on
15:08
Speaker 3: alternative medicine and cooking, and she biked to work for
15:13
Speaker 3: a long time, but in nineteen fifty five she and
15:15
Speaker 3: her husband ended up buying a fiat. But of course
15:19
Speaker 3: there was a lot going on in India at the time,
15:23
Speaker 3: so during partition, violence came really close to the Vera
15:28
Speaker 3: Wallas and Connot place, which is where they lived. Her
15:31
Speaker 3: landlords were Muslim. They had to leave their home and
15:35
Speaker 3: flee to the camps, and Hindu families were throwing burning
15:39
Speaker 3: rags into the family owned shop that was below their place,
15:43
Speaker 3: and she said, we would keep big vessels full of
15:46
Speaker 3: water ready to put out the fire and would stand
15:48
Speaker 3: on the balcony laughing and talking so that people would
15:52
Speaker 3: think that a Parsi family stayed there. She said that
15:55
Speaker 3: they stayed dressed all the time in case there was
15:57
Speaker 3: an emergency. And eventually the Hindu family came and occupied
16:02
Speaker 3: the shop and forced one of the landlord's sons to
16:04
Speaker 3: sign away the property at knife point. So in the
16:08
Speaker 3: nineteen thirties, the colonial state put restrictions on the publication
16:12
Speaker 3: of images of nationalist leaders in newspapers, but there were
16:16
Speaker 3: still freelance photographers who were documenting events that were happening
16:22
Speaker 3: in the freedom struggle, and Homi was taking photos of politicians.
16:29
Speaker 3: And one of the politicians that she took photos of
16:32
Speaker 3: was Jawaharlal Nahru, and she took photos of him like
16:36
Speaker 3: the most. He liked being photographed and he would often
16:40
Speaker 3: put on a show for pictures, so he was a
16:42
Speaker 3: good subject of her photographs as well. Homi said that
16:47
Speaker 3: she had a lot of patients and she would wait
16:51
Speaker 3: until the people she was photographing were relaxed in front
16:56
Speaker 3: of the camera. So she described how oftentimes other people
17:00
Speaker 3: had already they thought they had gotten a shot the
17:02
Speaker 3: thing had happened, So she would stick around and so
17:05
Speaker 3: she would get more dynamic images, images that other people
17:09
Speaker 3: weren't getting because of the patients that she had. She
17:13
Speaker 3: said she liked to use low angle shots. She used
17:15
Speaker 3: daylight flash for the people who are interested in the
17:18
Speaker 3: technicals of it, and backlighting to highlight her subjects amongst
17:22
Speaker 3: their surroundings. And big night, the night India got its independence,
17:27
Speaker 3: of course, Homi was going to want to catch some photos.
17:31
Speaker 3: That was in August of nineteen forty seven, Homi went
17:34
Speaker 3: to the Parliament House to cover it, but because she
17:38
Speaker 3: was with the British Information Services, she wasn't let in,
17:43
Speaker 3: but she was able to take photos of the celebratory
17:46
Speaker 3: events that followed. So there are some interesting points about
17:50
Speaker 3: what people liked and didn't like because she was photographing
17:54
Speaker 3: all these dignitaries and important people. And one of the
17:57
Speaker 3: other people that she photographed was Gandhi, so he didn't
18:01
Speaker 3: like camera flashes, though so very different than Nru. He
18:05
Speaker 3: reportedly said to her when she took one picture, this
18:08
Speaker 3: girl will not rest until she makes me blind. The
18:11
Speaker 3: day that Gandhi was assassinated, she was on her way
18:18
Speaker 3: to record with him, actually, and she had her color
18:22
Speaker 3: movie camera at a prayer meeting at beer La House
18:27
Speaker 3: and her husband told her not to go because he
18:32
Speaker 3: would join her with a still camera the next day.
18:36
Speaker 3: But not long after he told her that Gandhi was murdered,
18:41
Speaker 3: and she missed out on capturing that moment. That moment
18:45
Speaker 3: with Gandhi, and during Gandhi's funeral procession, Homi and her
18:51
Speaker 3: husband they did get photos. They even have permission from
18:54
Speaker 3: some of the car owners to stand on their cars
18:56
Speaker 3: and take pictures, and Homi said that Gandhi teachings like
19:00
Speaker 3: really resonated with her. She said that she liked his
19:05
Speaker 3: moral values and how he stood up to the British Empire,
19:08
Speaker 3: and much more about him. But she said that she
19:12
Speaker 3: also admired him for his sensible ideas in teachings, many
19:15
Speaker 3: of which I have always kept in mind. So there
19:19
Speaker 3: is a quote that I want to share about Homei
19:21
Speaker 3: and kind of why she didn't like studio photography. She
19:25
Speaker 3: said this, I have never asked anyone to pose for me.
19:29
Speaker 3: I don't like it because the moment the subjects know
19:31
Speaker 3: that they are being photographed, a change comes over their countenance.
19:35
Speaker 3: The whole atmosphere changes. The body becomes stiff and the
19:39
Speaker 3: eyes open up a bit, which is not natural. When
19:42
Speaker 3: you take a picture. It's always in a split second.
19:45
Speaker 3: You either take it or miss it, and that must
19:48
Speaker 3: be the right moment. So Homi also preferred black and
19:52
Speaker 3: white photography over color. She actually didn't have a wide
19:56
Speaker 3: angle or a telephoto lens until later in her career,
20:00
Speaker 3: but at first she could work well without having those
20:07
Speaker 3: because their security at first wasn't a big deal when
20:10
Speaker 3: she was photographed, so she was able to get a
20:12
Speaker 3: little closer to some of her subjects, even though they
20:15
Speaker 3: were these big names. She also said that her subjects
20:19
Speaker 3: were comfortable with her because they knew that she would
20:23
Speaker 3: never ridicule them. But she was this is this is funny.
20:28
Speaker 3: Homi was accident prone, apparently, fortunately her cameras never took
20:34
Speaker 3: a big hit, except for once when she broke her
20:37
Speaker 3: wooden speak gap graphic camera. But she had a friend
20:41
Speaker 3: whose name was Ajit Singh, who would repair her cameras
20:44
Speaker 3: and would build makeshift accessories for her. So even though
20:48
Speaker 3: she was accident prone, she knew she had someone on
20:50
Speaker 3: her side who worked with her, who was cool with her,
20:55
Speaker 3: who was good at what they did, even made accessories
20:58
Speaker 3: for her. So she was gold. She was covered. Even
21:02
Speaker 3: though she was accident prone. She carried around and I'm
21:06
Speaker 3: just imagining this picture of home. I So, first of all,
21:09
Speaker 3: she's one of the only women who's in a sea
21:13
Speaker 3: full of other photojournalists who are men. She's carrying around
21:18
Speaker 3: two big bags, so one of them had flash bulbs
21:21
Speaker 3: in it, the other one had fuse bulbs in it.
21:24
Speaker 3: She carried two or three cameras, a movie camera sometimes film,
21:31
Speaker 3: the flashbox, and a wooden tripod. She used an electronic
21:35
Speaker 3: flash that weighed like eighteen pounds. So she's carrying around
21:39
Speaker 3: these huge, huge bags. It's so much equipment that she's
21:44
Speaker 3: carrying around. So I also like, I also kind of
21:47
Speaker 3: want to give her some grace on being accident prone
21:51
Speaker 3: because it's a fast paced job. There are going to
21:56
Speaker 3: be a lot of people around. The pressure is on
21:59
Speaker 3: to get the shot. You have to put yourself in
22:02
Speaker 3: weird positions, especially if you're working with your making do
22:06
Speaker 3: with the equipment that you have. She didn't have specific lenses,
22:09
Speaker 3: so I mean, I imagine a lot of times things
22:12
Speaker 3: were super precarious anyway, So you can't fault her for
22:14
Speaker 3: having accidents. But there was a time because she liked
22:21
Speaker 3: wearing a sorry, there was a time when she was
22:25
Speaker 3: taking a photo in nineteen fifty nine at her story tour,
22:29
Speaker 3: and after this she switched up her outfits that she
22:32
Speaker 3: was wearing that were a little bit more practical for
22:34
Speaker 3: her work. She also talked about how developing film was
22:38
Speaker 3: like cooking, so she did it measure chemicals a.
22:41
Speaker 1: Lot of the time.
22:43
Speaker 3: She just knew how to put in different things. She
22:46
Speaker 3: knew how much to put in. After she had been
22:48
Speaker 3: working in a dark room so much home. I captured
22:52
Speaker 3: photographs of lots of events that were happening, like the
22:56
Speaker 3: first Republic Day celebrations and the ceremony where doctor Rajender
23:00
Speaker 3: Pisah became the first President of independent India. And she
23:05
Speaker 3: said that of all of the leaders that she took
23:08
Speaker 3: photos of, she really liked ho Chi Minh the most
23:10
Speaker 3: because of his simplicity and his humility. In nineteen sixty one,
23:19
Speaker 3: when the British Royal couple visited India, Homai was the
23:24
Speaker 3: only photographer who was allowed in when the entourage went
23:29
Speaker 3: into Victoria Memorial in Calcutta which is now Kolkatta. But
23:34
Speaker 3: one of the British High Commissions tried to block her
23:36
Speaker 3: view when she was shooting a portrait of the Queen,
23:39
Speaker 3: and Homai apparently said this, remember this is not the
23:44
Speaker 3: British raj. You are allowed here only as our guests,
23:48
Speaker 3: so behave like one. And then she said the Queen
23:52
Speaker 3: must have hurt me as she was only five or
23:54
Speaker 3: six feet away. I'm told that the Left Front government
23:58
Speaker 3: has now removed the statues surrounding the Victoria Memorial. I
24:02
Speaker 3: feel sorry about that. You can't erase history like this.
24:07
Speaker 3: So yeah, I haven't seen whish I had seen video
24:11
Speaker 3: of these some of these encounters that she was having,
24:16
Speaker 3: But it's just really fascinating to me to think about
24:21
Speaker 3: how she was in so many rooms in such a
24:25
Speaker 3: fraught time over the course of such a pivotal moment
24:31
Speaker 3: in history, and she was present but also in a
24:37
Speaker 3: way kind of like a fly on the wall, but
24:41
Speaker 3: also was able to form relationships with some of these people.
24:45
Speaker 3: Some of these people which because she was photographing so often,
24:49
Speaker 3: I imagine they were a little deeper. But also it wasn't
24:51
Speaker 3: necessarily like they were always friendly relationships, So that kind
24:55
Speaker 3: of space she was moving in where she was that
24:59
Speaker 3: were farsenable. You know, they had friendly relationships, but it
25:04
Speaker 3: wasn't friends. It's very interesting to me. So Homai also
25:11
Speaker 3: documented to Dalai Lama's crossing into India in nineteen fifty
25:14
Speaker 3: six for Time Life.
25:16
Speaker 1: But things were.
25:17
Speaker 3: Changing for photography and photographers a lot in nineteen sixty
25:22
Speaker 3: nine and dearra Gandhi became the Prime Minister of India.
25:26
Speaker 3: But over the next few years, inflation was growing, so
25:31
Speaker 3: was corruption. There was a lot of social upheaval and
25:36
Speaker 3: Prime Minister. Gandhi's security kept photographers from getting too close
25:41
Speaker 3: at this point, and Homai was becoming more disillusioned with
25:47
Speaker 3: how democracy was evolving in India. She said this, there
25:54
Speaker 3: was no doubt that I was very happy in the
25:55
Speaker 3: British Raj because there was law and order in all
25:58
Speaker 3: kinds of facilities. We didn't have shortages. We had never
26:03
Speaker 3: heard the word pollution or adulteration or corruption. All these
26:08
Speaker 3: words came later. Independence came on a platter. It is
26:13
Speaker 3: only a few people who suffered and fought for it,
26:15
Speaker 3: and the rest had nothing to do with it. It
26:18
Speaker 3: came so easy to everybody that nobody appreciates it. Now
26:22
Speaker 3: freedom became a license to do what they liked. So,
26:26
Speaker 3: of course Homi was telling certain stories through the photo
26:31
Speaker 3: she was taking, but she also had her own opinions.
26:36
Speaker 3: She at this time ended up voting against the Congress
26:39
Speaker 3: Party for the first time in her life, and these
26:45
Speaker 3: were some of her feelings about the politics in the
26:47
Speaker 3: way that society was changing. There was also, of course,
26:51
Speaker 3: the gender issue. Women saw Homi as different because of
26:55
Speaker 3: her job, because she was the first female press fertial
26:59
Speaker 3: journalist and indie. Yeah, and also men were hesitant to
27:04
Speaker 3: talk to her, according to Homi, but she said that
27:08
Speaker 3: they made it clear that their wives and daughters shouldn't
27:13
Speaker 3: do what she did. But at the same time, Homi
27:17
Speaker 3: would collaborate with her male colleagues and sometimes they would
27:22
Speaker 3: even like trade negatives, even though they worked for different agencies.
27:27
Speaker 3: And Homia's assignments took her all over India. She had
27:32
Speaker 3: no guys on all of her trips. She would often
27:37
Speaker 3: benefit from the kindness of strangers, especially when she would
27:40
Speaker 3: have no prior arrangements in a place. And there are
27:45
Speaker 3: some stories about how how the how these interactions would happen,
27:50
Speaker 3: So there there's there are are some some some spiritual
27:53
Speaker 3: elements of the work that Homi was doing. I know
27:57
Speaker 3: at first we talked about this this astral in the
28:00
Speaker 3: beginning of her story who said that she would be
28:02
Speaker 3: around all these dignitaries and these important people, and that
28:07
Speaker 3: did end up happening in her life. But she also
28:11
Speaker 3: talked about how people would show up at the right time,
28:15
Speaker 3: and I'm kind of obsessed with this idea. In the book,
28:19
Speaker 3: it's a few moments that stand out about somebody being
28:24
Speaker 3: there for her when she was lost and couldn't find
28:26
Speaker 3: her way, and all of a sudden, this person appeared
28:29
Speaker 3: on her path, and because of that, she now had
28:33
Speaker 3: a car and a driver that could take her around
28:36
Speaker 3: to the place that she needed to go to. She
28:37
Speaker 3: might not have gotten the greatest pictures on that trip,
28:40
Speaker 3: but she was able to get some photos because of
28:43
Speaker 3: that person who showed up. She knaxture or she went
28:46
Speaker 3: somewhere and she hadn't planned accommodations and all of a
28:49
Speaker 3: sudden somebody showed up and they had a place where
28:52
Speaker 3: she could stay and then she could eat meals. And
28:57
Speaker 3: it kind of stresses me out thinking about moving this way,
29:01
Speaker 3: but it also makes a lot of sense for her
29:03
Speaker 3: disposition and how she liked to be.
29:05
Speaker 1: She was a press.
29:06
Speaker 3: Photographer, she liked to do street photography. She liked more
29:08
Speaker 3: spontaneous moments. She didn't like stage moments. So it also
29:12
Speaker 3: really makes sense for her to be open to just
29:15
Speaker 3: being like, I'm going I don't really know, I don't
29:18
Speaker 3: have a very meticulous itinerary planned out for what I'm doing,
29:25
Speaker 3: but you know it's going to work out, and it
29:29
Speaker 3: did a lot of the time for her. So she
29:31
Speaker 3: got that evidence, so it's heck, hey, I guess I'll
29:34
Speaker 3: do it this way again. But she was also very
29:38
Speaker 3: involved in the photographer's world, her community. She and her
29:44
Speaker 3: friends formed the News Cameramen's Association, which was one of
29:48
Speaker 3: the first unions of photographers in independent India. She was
29:51
Speaker 3: one of the association's presidents and a lot of other
29:55
Speaker 3: people liked her. They looked up to her. She was
29:58
Speaker 3: an authoritative voice as well well. Her nickname was Mummy,
30:02
Speaker 3: and she said this nickname helped put her on a pedestal,
30:05
Speaker 3: which gave her an advantage, so people called her that,
30:08
Speaker 3: But it's like it also gave her this aura of
30:13
Speaker 3: having authority. There was this persona that she had that
30:16
Speaker 3: kind of kept people at a distance. She said that
30:19
Speaker 3: she was always in the crowd, but not a part
30:22
Speaker 3: of the crowd. And she also said that she was
30:25
Speaker 3: really stern and professional settings. She said, quote, there was
30:28
Speaker 3: no hanky panky. Yeah, I know, like as in there
30:33
Speaker 3: it was no funny business. There was no back and
30:36
Speaker 3: forth when she was around, like she came to do
30:38
Speaker 3: her job. So when next Shaw died in May of
30:53
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine, it was pretty tragic. He had drunk
30:58
Speaker 3: an anti termite solution that he thought was medicine he
31:02
Speaker 3: was supposed to take and he died and that was
31:08
Speaker 3: of course a really sad moment for Hamai. And at
31:14
Speaker 3: the same time, Delhi was changing. Like we just talked about,
31:19
Speaker 3: photography was changing. There was a new generation of photographers
31:25
Speaker 3: and Homai was kind of feeling like these photographers weren't
31:30
Speaker 3: the same as they used to be. There was also
31:33
Speaker 3: more security around her photography subjects and a lot of
31:37
Speaker 3: her photography colleagues were also dying. And her son was
31:41
Speaker 3: working at the Beerla Institute of Technology and Science and Polani,
31:45
Speaker 3: which is west of New Delhi, and he asked.
31:49
Speaker 1: Homi to join him.
31:51
Speaker 3: So she sold her house in has Kas in Delhi
31:56
Speaker 3: and she stopped taking pictures and she said, it was
32:00
Speaker 3: just like that. One day, I decided that this is enough.
32:04
Speaker 3: She told all her colleagues she was done with photography.
32:08
Speaker 3: And she said this it was the same routing going
32:12
Speaker 3: out taking pictures, and things were not that exciting any longer.
32:17
Speaker 3: When something goes down, you do not want to go
32:20
Speaker 3: down with it. You have reached a particular peak where
32:22
Speaker 3: you have taken the best of things. I had shot
32:25
Speaker 3: important people from all over the world. You do not
32:29
Speaker 3: want to go for small things then for people who
32:31
Speaker 3: are not gracious, dignified and sincere I missed that graciousness,
32:36
Speaker 3: and when it was gone, my interest in photography was
32:39
Speaker 3: gone as well. I think that that is very interesting.
32:48
Speaker 3: I mean, I think anybody who's been working over so
32:50
Speaker 3: many decades in a specific industry will feel some of that,
32:54
Speaker 3: especially an artistic one and one that involves technology. I'm
32:58
Speaker 3: sure y'all can relate. Y'all are in the podcast world
33:02
Speaker 3: and seeing how things are changing in technology. At the
33:06
Speaker 3: same time, the culture around photography was changing too, the
33:12
Speaker 3: way that people were interacting with their photography subjects the
33:15
Speaker 3: photographers were changing, and so I think that's interesting. But
33:20
Speaker 3: I think that's also paired with Homi's feelings about politics.
33:24
Speaker 3: So we kind of also talked about how she was
33:27
Speaker 3: nostalgic about the old times under colonial rule and how
33:32
Speaker 3: they were different, how they were more refined, how they
33:34
Speaker 3: were polished. So there's definitely a personal political bent here
33:40
Speaker 3: in her feelings about how things were changing, and that
33:48
Speaker 3: is nuanced.
33:49
Speaker 1: So some of these things.
33:52
Speaker 3: That were actually the difficulties of the turbulence of so
33:54
Speaker 3: much political change happening, and also a little bit of
33:57
Speaker 3: nostalgia for the old times, old way. We're all joining
34:02
Speaker 3: with the fact that she had been doing this for
34:03
Speaker 3: so long and things in her family were changing and
34:06
Speaker 3: she was losing people. I'm sure that was very difficult.
34:09
Speaker 3: So she was in Polani now and she joined the
34:14
Speaker 3: ladies club, She took on new hobbies like macromay, and
34:21
Speaker 3: once Indira God dimentioned Homai in an interview, people in
34:26
Speaker 3: Polani began to learn about her previous life as a
34:29
Speaker 3: press photographer, and so there was all this chatter about
34:33
Speaker 3: her news is spreading. She was starting to get all
34:35
Speaker 3: these requests for work, but she just kept on doing
34:39
Speaker 3: things like cooking, going to ladies club and gardening. She
34:42
Speaker 3: wasn't worried about taking no photos no more. And she
34:45
Speaker 3: said it was in Polani that she understood women could
34:50
Speaker 3: be good friends too, and that she shouldn't be afraid
34:54
Speaker 3: of them. Now.
34:57
Speaker 1: Look, I know.
34:59
Speaker 3: When I was reading this, I was thinking about this
35:01
Speaker 3: in modern times, how often times people are like, I
35:03
Speaker 3: don't have women friends. You know, women are this way,
35:06
Speaker 3: they're caddy to each other if they're in groups. All
35:08
Speaker 3: of these like very gendered feelings about women creating friendships
35:14
Speaker 3: with women and bonding with other women. But I know
35:19
Speaker 3: that we also have to consider that Homai was also
35:22
Speaker 3: truly the only woman doing what she was doing. She
35:25
Speaker 3: was a pioneer, and that she talked about some of
35:29
Speaker 3: the actual experiences she had making difficulty and how this
35:33
Speaker 3: was also her I mean, having difficulty with making friends
35:37
Speaker 3: with other women, and how some of this was also
35:41
Speaker 3: on her as well. So she did have these friendships.
35:47
Speaker 3: And this seems like a hard turn now being in
35:50
Speaker 3: a ladies club after saying that you had difficulty being
35:54
Speaker 3: friends with women before.
35:56
Speaker 1: But yeah, so she was.
36:01
Speaker 3: Her son, for Ruke got married in nineteen seventy five
36:05
Speaker 3: and after that she stayed with them, but she didn't
36:09
Speaker 3: adjust will to this new arrangement, and so she checked
36:12
Speaker 3: herself herself into an elderly home in Calcutta. But she
36:19
Speaker 3: had a dream when these spiritual things going on. Now, Yeah,
36:23
Speaker 3: interesting choice that for Ruke was sick three months after
36:27
Speaker 3: that and she moved back to Polani. It turned out
36:32
Speaker 3: that he did have typhoid at the time, but it
36:37
Speaker 3: wasn't until years later that he was diagnosed with bow
36:40
Speaker 3: cancer and he died on January fourth, nineteen eighty eight.
36:46
Speaker 3: And after her son died, she thought that nobody would
36:51
Speaker 3: be interested in some of her footage. She said that
36:56
Speaker 3: a whole box full of what she considered her best
37:00
Speaker 3: negatives got lost when she was moving from Polani to Baroda.
37:05
Speaker 3: She said she looked everywhere for them, but they were gone.
37:09
Speaker 3: And she said, after having kept many negatives in prints
37:14
Speaker 3: for twenty three years without anyone ever knowing she had
37:17
Speaker 3: been a photographer, she burnt some of them and Polani,
37:22
Speaker 3: and she also threw away a whole box full of
37:26
Speaker 3: movie films. After her son died in Baroda, she said quote,
37:31
Speaker 3: I don't think I understood the value of my own pictures.
37:34
Speaker 3: I really regret that now. That just makes me so sad.
37:40
Speaker 3: But after he died, she spent the rest of her
37:42
Speaker 3: life in Baroda. She had no pension, she was a freelancer,
37:49
Speaker 3: but even so she gave away a lot of the
37:51
Speaker 3: money that she did have to charity. And she had
37:54
Speaker 3: a long standing friendship with Hugh McInnis, who was her
37:58
Speaker 3: former Australian boss at the Far Eastern Bureau, and the
38:02
Speaker 3: two of them kept in touch until he died in
38:05
Speaker 3: two thousand and four, and he wrote lots of letters
38:09
Speaker 3: to her over the fifty years that they were friends
38:12
Speaker 3: from the fifties to the nineties, and they some of
38:19
Speaker 3: those letters. You can see those images of those letters
38:22
Speaker 3: also in the book that I mentioned of top, So
38:27
Speaker 3: those are interesting to see kind of a correspondence between
38:30
Speaker 3: the two of them and how she was thinking about
38:32
Speaker 3: photography and about some of her personal relationships that she
38:36
Speaker 3: had with people. So on her politics a little bit,
38:43
Speaker 3: she said this, People often say to me, are you
38:46
Speaker 3: supporting the British? Were you not glad about independence? Of
38:50
Speaker 3: course I was happy about freedom, but everyone is not
38:53
Speaker 3: the same. There were also good things about some Britishers
38:56
Speaker 3: that I admired. Many say that they exploited us financially.
39:00
Speaker 3: What about the India Maharajas had they not exploited ordinary
39:04
Speaker 3: people for years? It's not as simple as being for
39:08
Speaker 3: or against the British. Maybe the answer lies somewhere in between.
39:16
Speaker 3: So I think it's interesting to think about her personal
39:19
Speaker 3: politics in the context of her being a fertile journalist
39:25
Speaker 3: and a pioneering woman photojournalist at the time. So Homi,
39:32
Speaker 3: like a lot of the other people we've talked about
39:34
Speaker 3: in Female First, kind of had this like rediscovery. So
39:39
Speaker 3: after Homi stopped taking photographs. She said that she didn't
39:43
Speaker 3: miss photography, but she did say that after this rediscovery
39:50
Speaker 3: of her work happened, it felt like a weight because
39:55
Speaker 3: she was having to think about how to preserve her
39:58
Speaker 3: work and that had become a burden to her. So
40:06
Speaker 3: her you can see a little bit more about her
40:09
Speaker 3: life and how the author spoke with her in this
40:14
Speaker 3: time after her photography, after her son died in the book,
40:20
Speaker 3: and about how it seemed like it was a really
40:24
Speaker 3: peaceful life. She was really integrated into the community, cared
40:27
Speaker 3: about it, cared about the children who were around her,
40:30
Speaker 3: cared about keeping the area clean. So she became a
40:34
Speaker 3: member of that community. And when this book was written,
40:36
Speaker 3: it was released before she died. She didn't die until
40:39
Speaker 3: January fifteenth, twenty twelve, when she was ninety eight years old,
40:43
Speaker 3: So she lived a long life. And this is not
40:51
Speaker 3: like every story we talk about on female first Sometimes
40:54
Speaker 3: we're missing a lot of that person's work. They weren't
40:57
Speaker 3: recognized until many, many years after their death. Even in
41:03
Speaker 3: this case, her biography was documented in a lot of
41:08
Speaker 3: her words through direct relationship with her, through the author
41:11
Speaker 3: of that book, and a lot of her photographs still exist,
41:15
Speaker 3: a lot of her letters still exist, and we get
41:19
Speaker 3: to know about her her story. So that's that's the
41:24
Speaker 3: end of her eyes story.
41:26
Speaker 4: Man, she outlived everyone.
41:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, honestly, twenty twelve is not that long ago, right, seriously.
41:33
Speaker 4: Well that makes sense of like her liking these different
41:36
Speaker 4: rains of movies. I was like, oh, okay, that makes
41:39
Speaker 4: that makes sense.
41:40
Speaker 2: I love that so much was documented about her. She
41:42
Speaker 2: seems like such a very interesting, multifaceted person and she
41:46
Speaker 2: did have a lot of interests that kind of surprised me. Yeah, like, oh,
41:50
Speaker 2: these movies are oh Macro may Era, Yeah, just.
41:55
Speaker 1: Which I love.
41:56
Speaker 2: And I'm really glad to have this context of how
42:00
Speaker 2: she liked to photograph people, because I think that will
42:04
Speaker 2: help me appreciate the photographs more because they do look
42:06
Speaker 2: like I love the lighting in them, and I like
42:11
Speaker 2: it is natural light generally, But it does look like
42:13
Speaker 2: she just was snatched something in the right moment and
42:17
Speaker 2: she captured this thing and to hear that that was
42:19
Speaker 2: so important to her and she really did it.
42:23
Speaker 1: Like it. They're kind of arresting images.
42:28
Speaker 2: I don't know how to describe it, but listeners go
42:31
Speaker 2: look it up, because she really did capture.
42:36
Speaker 3: So much, and just these images she was taking. I
42:41
Speaker 3: really enjoyed looking at her photographs. I really felt like
42:44
Speaker 3: I was put in the moments she was in. I
42:47
Speaker 3: really felt like I felt the energy of whatever was
42:51
Speaker 3: happening in the moment through looking at her pictures, Like
42:54
Speaker 3: she really clearly did have a gift for taking these
42:57
Speaker 3: photos and was very dedicated to it, clearly like she
43:00
Speaker 3: spoke about her patients. And I think there was even
43:03
Speaker 3: a moment that I didn't talk about in the episode
43:05
Speaker 3: where she was photographing someone and I think she was
43:07
Speaker 3: on top of some boxes and ended up falling off
43:10
Speaker 3: of them because the room was small and she didn't
43:13
Speaker 3: have like a wide angle lens and she had to
43:15
Speaker 3: take the pictures, so she had to get on top
43:16
Speaker 3: of some boxes and take it from like a top
43:18
Speaker 3: down perspective, and she fell. So it was a lot
43:23
Speaker 3: of stuff like that. I think there was another moment
43:26
Speaker 3: where she got somebody pushed her, and she somebody pushed
43:32
Speaker 3: somebody else and they got pushed into her, and she
43:34
Speaker 3: got pushed into somebody, and I think she might have
43:38
Speaker 3: even gotten shoved into whoever. The dignitary was that she
43:42
Speaker 3: was photographing Anyway, Look, she did what she had to
43:47
Speaker 3: do to get those moments on film, and I can
43:53
Speaker 3: tell that by looking at her photos. I do really
43:56
Speaker 3: love her story. I am also fascinated by her politics
44:05
Speaker 3: and how she said that she felt about other women
44:11
Speaker 3: and having a hard time getting into relationships like friendships
44:16
Speaker 3: with women. So I yeah, I really highly encourage everyone
44:20
Speaker 3: to look at Home Eyes photos.
44:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.
44:23
Speaker 4: I was just thinking like she was around for all
44:26
Speaker 4: the big changes when it comes to like photography, the
44:29
Speaker 4: amount of changes that happened within a short amount of time,
44:33
Speaker 4: and the discord among photographers, such as like going from
44:37
Speaker 4: film to digital to photoshop to phones. Like she was
44:42
Speaker 4: around for all of that. I wonder what her thoughts were.
44:45
Speaker 4: She also seemed very satisfied, like her lifespan where she's
44:48
Speaker 4: retired and not have to pick up the pack. Cameragan
44:51
Speaker 4: speaks about how she felt fulfilled in her work, which
44:55
Speaker 4: I think rarely anyone can say in their lifetime.
44:59
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, like she I mean, I think if you
45:02
Speaker 3: can get to a point where you say I think
45:05
Speaker 3: I've done enough photography, I'm good with what I've done.
45:08
Speaker 3: I think that she clearly was satisfied with her work
45:15
Speaker 3: and also like having to be in those rooms. I'm
45:17
Speaker 3: sure it's also it's physically demanding. So there comes a
45:21
Speaker 3: point where like I'm sure that you know gets old.
45:24
Speaker 3: And because she seems like she was satisfied with her
45:27
Speaker 3: creative work, that was just like, Okay, it's time for
45:30
Speaker 3: all that to be over and enjoy this next new
45:33
Speaker 3: phase of my life, which she clearly did since she
45:35
Speaker 3: started crafting and joining joining groups made.
45:39
Speaker 2: Some women friends also got to love the astrology part
45:45
Speaker 2: in the beginning. Worked out, Yes, worked out well. Shout
45:50
Speaker 2: out to that astrology Well, thank you so much as
45:55
Speaker 2: always used for being with us. We always love having you.
45:58
Speaker 2: This was such a great story. This is another one
46:00
Speaker 2: that I'm like, why we need to see this docuseriies,
46:04
Speaker 2: I would love it.
46:04
Speaker 1: I would love to watch it.
46:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, but where can the good listeners find you?
46:10
Speaker 3: Y'all can go to my websites probably the easiest. My
46:14
Speaker 3: website is Eves Jeffcoat dot com. That's spelled y V
46:18
Speaker 3: S J E F F C A T dot com
46:24
Speaker 3: and you can sign up for my lowsletter. You can
46:27
Speaker 3: get to all the other things from there. But if
46:29
Speaker 3: you want to go directly to Instagram, you can find
46:31
Speaker 3: me at not Apologizing. You can also go to many
46:36
Speaker 3: other episodes here of Stuff Mom Never Told You. There
46:39
Speaker 3: are plenty, plenty of episodes to dig through of women
46:44
Speaker 3: in history and their accomplishments and how they pioneered in
46:48
Speaker 3: their fields. So listen to all those episodes of Female First.
46:53
Speaker 3: If you haven't, you have a lot of catching up
46:55
Speaker 3: to do.
46:56
Speaker 2: Yes, listeners and go catch up you haven't all well, Yes,
47:02
Speaker 2: Thank you so much Eaves for being here. If you
47:04
Speaker 2: would like to contact us, you can our emails hello
47:07
Speaker 2: at Stuffannever Told You dot com. We're also on booce
47:09
Speaker 2: Gut Mom Stuff podcast on Instagram and TikTok at stuff.
47:12
Speaker 1: I Never Told You. We're also on YouTube.
47:14
Speaker 2: We have some new merchandise at Cotton Bureau, and we
47:16
Speaker 2: have a book you can get wherever you get your books.
47:18
Speaker 2: Thanks it's always to our super producer Christine or executive
47:20
Speaker 2: producer My and.
47:21
Speaker 1: Your contributor Joey.
47:22
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff Never
47:24
Speaker 2: Told You Instruction by Heart Radio. For more podcast from
47:26
Speaker 2: my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,
47:27
Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.