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Andy Stanley - Great Leaders Lead Themselves Well, Part 2 · Andy Stanley Sermons

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast, a conversation designed.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: To help leaders like you go further, faster. If you normally.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Consume this content on a podcast app, we will continue
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: making that format available. But so you know, there is
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: a YouTube version as well. So those of you joining
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: us by way of YouTube, welcome to the conversation or podcast.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: welcome back because this is the second episode of a
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: special series and thus the additional format.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And if you missed part one, I'm
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Holly Goddard. I'm the co-host of this series. And this
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: is a special series because you have written a brand
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: new book.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Finally.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a long time coming. It's called What
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Great Leaders Do, subtitle, Seven Essentials for Enduring Impact. And
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: now I've been a part of this organization for 15 years.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: So I've seen these play out. They play out in
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  Speaker 3: the day job. I know You name the tension and
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: then you give us some things we can practice so
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  Speaker 3: that we can become great leaders. And you will run
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: into these if you try to put them into practice.
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: In fact, I did this week. We talked about that.
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  Speaker 1: We might even share that on the podcast.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll share it a little bit later. I feel
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  Speaker 3: like I went to the gym and worked out my
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: leadership muscles. And so it was a good workout. But
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  Speaker 3: what I love is this is dynamic. This isn't theory.
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  Speaker 3: You could do this stuff every day at work. And
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  Speaker 3: so last time you introduced us to the hardest person
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  Speaker 3: that we're ever going to leave.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, the person in the mirror.
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  Speaker 3: That's right. It's us. So remind us of the first essential.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So we talked about there's three commitments that relate to self-leadership.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: And the first chapter in the book is all about self-leadership.
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  Speaker 2: The most difficult person to lead is the person in
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  Speaker 2: the mirror. So the first commitment is I will not
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: lie to myself even when telling myself the truth makes
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  Speaker 2: me feel bad about myself. So I will not lie
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  Speaker 2: to myself even when the truth makes me feel bad
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  Speaker 2: about myself. And anybody who hears that goes, yep, that's
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  Speaker 2: what we should do. But in the day-to-day, the blocking
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  Speaker 2: and tackling of organizational leadership or just organizational life, once again,
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  Speaker 2: it is easy to lie to ourselves, especially if we
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  Speaker 2: don't like what the truth, how the truth makes us
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  Speaker 2: feel about ourselves.
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  Speaker 3: And I don't think we do it on purpose. No.
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  Speaker 1: We just go there. Yes.
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  Speaker 3: So we're going to fire the liar. That's our first
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  Speaker 3: commitment to ourselves.
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  Speaker 1: All right.
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  Speaker 3: Here's the second commitment. I will prioritize what I value
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  Speaker 3: most over what I want now. And so in this commitment,
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  Speaker 3: you introduce us to the fact that we've all got
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  Speaker 3: appetites and our appetites, they never go away. They actually
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  Speaker 3: have two words, more and now. And so how do
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  Speaker 3: we view our appetites? How do we turn that into
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  Speaker 3: a leadership discipline?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so appetites, and this is obviously broader than organizational leadership,
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  Speaker 2: but more and now, more and now, that's what our
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  Speaker 2: appetites tell us. And where this intersects with leadership is
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  Speaker 2: that The more authority we have and the more influence
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  Speaker 2: we have, whether you're the director with two or three
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  Speaker 2: direct reports or you're over an entire part of an
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  Speaker 2: organization or entire organization, the more authority and the more
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  Speaker 2: influence you.
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  Speaker 1: Have, it actually amplifies our appetites.
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  Speaker 2: Because the more authority and the more position you have,
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  Speaker 2: the more influence you have, the more opportunities you have
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  Speaker 2: and the more options you have.
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  Speaker 1: And with options and opportunities, this is why leaders get
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  Speaker 1: in trouble, right?
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  Speaker 2: With more options and more opportunities, our appetites have more
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  Speaker 2: opportunities to get us in trouble. And I want to
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  Speaker 2: come back to this at the end because this is
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  Speaker 2: such a big deal and just a small part of
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  Speaker 2: this part of the discussion. Paying attention and differentiating between
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  Speaker 2: what I want now and what I want more of
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  Speaker 2: versus what I value most.
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  Speaker 1: Just having that.
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  Speaker 2: Language for me through the years has been so helpful
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  Speaker 2: because Because I can stop and ask myself, okay, Andy,
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  Speaker 2: is this an appetite you're chasing or is this something
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  Speaker 2: you truly value? And when I am willing to hold
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  Speaker 2: myself accountable just to the language, and sometimes we just
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  Speaker 2: need language to kind of bring us back to center.
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  Speaker 2: It's a wake-up call because the moment we find ourselves
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  Speaker 2: in any arena of life chasing an appetite, we're chasing
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  Speaker 2: something that can never be fully and finally satisfied. And here's,
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  Speaker 2: and I know I'm kind of jumping a little bit ahead,
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  Speaker 2: but this is so important to me. When a person,
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  Speaker 2: when a leader, anybody, but when a leader knows what
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  Speaker 2: they value most, values are sustainable throughout a lifetime. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: when you hone in on, this is what I value most,
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  Speaker 2: values are sustainable throughout the lifetime. Appetites are not because
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  Speaker 2: they come and they go, they come and they go.
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  Speaker 2: Values we can trust to lead us, but let's just
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  Speaker 2: be honest, our appetites oftentimes mislead us. And again, it's
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  Speaker 2: why leaders who have more options and more opportunities get
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  Speaker 2: into more trouble because it's easy to start chasing, you know,
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  Speaker 2: fulfilling that temporary appetite.
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  Speaker 1: So this is a big deal. It's a big deal, again,
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  Speaker 1: in every arena of life.
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  Speaker 2: When I was preparing for this conversation, I was reminded
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  Speaker 2: of Patrick Lencioni's very first.
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  Speaker 1: Book, 1998.
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  Speaker 2: He wrote The Five Temptations of a CEO. So that
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  Speaker 2: was my introduction to Patrick Lencioni. Probably for some of
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  Speaker 2: our listeners, they have read or remember that book. In
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  Speaker 2: The Five Temptations of a CEO, the very first temptation
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  Speaker 2: for the CEO, he says, is status over results.
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  Speaker 1: Status over results.
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  Speaker 2: And the reason I bring that up is when we
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  Speaker 2: start talking about appetites or temptation, there's a tendency for
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  Speaker 2: us to think, oh yeah, that's in my personal life.
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  Speaker 2: But the point he makes and the point we're making
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  Speaker 2: in this part of the discussion is it's not just
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  Speaker 2: our personal life because we bring our personal lives into
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  Speaker 2: the marketplace and to our jobs. So There's going to
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  Speaker 2: be a constant tension, I think, for leaders. And the
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  Speaker 2: more responsibility they have, the greater the temptation. There's going
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  Speaker 2: to be a temptation to opt for status, which is ego,
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  Speaker 2: which is appetite over what I value most, which is
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  Speaker 2: always going to benefit the organization. The minute I, as
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  Speaker 2: a leader, begin saying yes to ego and listening to ego,
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  Speaker 2: I'm automatically diminishing my leadership ability. And ultimately, it's going
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  Speaker 2: to hurt whatever it is I'm leading, which ultimately is
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  Speaker 2: the organization. So this isn't just a nice to have,
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  Speaker 2: be a nice person. This ultimately impacts the bottom line. So, again,
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  Speaker 2: if we can learn to pay attention to more and now,
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  Speaker 2: more and now, and realize, okay, I'm chasing something that
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  Speaker 2: can't be fully and finally satisfied, and ultimately it's going
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  Speaker 2: to undermine what I've committed myself to doing in the organization.
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  Speaker 1: That is a big, big deal, and it's a big,
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  Speaker 1: important differentiator.
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  Speaker 3: Gosh, that is such a big thought because appetites, I
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  Speaker 3: never think about that at work. I mean, you know
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  Speaker 3: what it's like at home. You've had a hard day.
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  Speaker 3: Let me go dive into the chips and queso. You
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  Speaker 3: know how appetites work. Right, right. And to think, okay,
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  Speaker 3: we do that at work, and it's driven by ego.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: That's an important thing to name and notice.
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  Speaker 2: But again, it goes back to the most difficult person
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  Speaker 2: to lead is the person in the mirror.
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  Speaker 3: Right.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm going to make a commitment. Tell myself the truth. Andy,
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  Speaker 2: that's ego talking. That's ego talking. We're going to talk
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  Speaker 2: about that in another chapter of the book as well.
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  Speaker 2: And to acknowledge, okay, what do I value most? And
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  Speaker 2: here I am in this tug of war. And I'm
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  Speaker 2: tempted to say that it never goes away, but I
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  Speaker 2: can only speak to age 68.
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  Speaker 1: Up until age 68, it doesn't go away. Not yet, huh? No.
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  Speaker 2: And as much as I believe this and am committed
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  Speaker 2: to this, I catch myself, whether it's in a conversation,
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  Speaker 2: a decision, a meeting.
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  Speaker 1: And it's like, wait, wait, wait. Okay. It's more now,
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  Speaker 1: more now. It's not the way to go. I don't
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  Speaker 1: want the people that I'm working with to operate in
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  Speaker 1: that fashion. So I've got to lead the way.
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  Speaker 3: I can't either.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So the tension is this appetite is never going to
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  Speaker 3: go away. We all got them. So let's just be
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  Speaker 3: aware of it and name it.
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  Speaker 2: And not allow them to lead us because they always,
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  Speaker 2: not always, but they often mislead us. Whereas our values...
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  Speaker 2: should be our guide. And that's the point of this
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  Speaker 2: second commitment.
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  Speaker 3: So we're always going to be in tug of war
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  Speaker 3: with these two things. It's just a tension that we
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  Speaker 3: have to learn to master. And so what are some
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  Speaker 3: questions that we need to ask ourselves so we can
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  Speaker 3: answer these honestly and deal with our appetite? Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: So, and I think these two questions, again, this is
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  Speaker 2: just from personal experience that there may be a better
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  Speaker 2: way to approach this. And to our podcast listeners, um, Again,
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  Speaker 2: you can create your own language. The point is being
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  Speaker 2: aware of the tension and identifying it when it happens.
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  Speaker 2: So here are the questions. Here are my, you know,
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  Speaker 2: retreat to questions. It's what do I want? What do
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  Speaker 2: I really want?
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  Speaker 1: Okay. In this moment where there's tension, there's selfishness, there's,
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  Speaker 1: you know, okay, what do I want? But what do
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  Speaker 1: I really want? And the what do I really.
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  Speaker 2: Want question surfaces this reality that we're all aware of
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  Speaker 2: but lose.
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  Speaker 1: Sight of, right?
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  Speaker 2: That behind everything I initially want, which is appetite driven,
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  Speaker 2: there's something behind that that I really want. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: when you think about an item or something that I
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  Speaker 2: want that thing, that purse, that car.
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  Speaker 1: That whatever. OK, but what do you really want? Because
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  Speaker 1: that represents something.
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  Speaker 2: And the leader who is intuitive enough and in tune
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  Speaker 2: with themselves enough to be able to pause and say,
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  Speaker 2: I find myself being driven for that, whether it's a
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  Speaker 2: decision or or an actual thing and to say, okay,
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  Speaker 2: but what's behind that?
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  Speaker 1: What do I really want?
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  Speaker 2: That then is a breadcrumb that leads me to what
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  Speaker 2: I value most. And great leaders operate out of pursuing
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  Speaker 2: what they value most rather than what they want now.
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  Speaker 1: But it's a bit of a mental exercise. And so
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  Speaker 1: the question of what do I want?
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  Speaker 2: Why am I so frustrated in this meeting?
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  Speaker 1: Why do I want to interrupt? Why? Okay. What do
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  Speaker 1: you want? Well, I want– no, no, no, no. What
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  Speaker 1: do you want? What's behind that?
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  Speaker 2: And again, that little mental exercise brings us back to
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  Speaker 2: values and quiets our appetite, which is I want now
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  Speaker 2: and I want more.
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  Speaker 1: I want now and I want more. Gosh, that is
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  Speaker 1: so good. That's kind of a head game.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but we got to learn to play it with ourselves.
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  Speaker 1: It is happening all the time.
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  Speaker 2: I wrote in my notes that lurking, and this is
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  Speaker 2: from the book, lurking in the shadows of what we
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  Speaker 2: think we want is what we value. That lurking in
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  Speaker 2: the shadows of what we think we want is what
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  Speaker 2: we actually value. But pausing to ask the question, why
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  Speaker 2: am I So insistent on, again, a decision, a change
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  Speaker 2: in the budget or an item. Okay, what's behind that?
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  Speaker 2: And again, that gives us an end run to our values.
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  Speaker 2: And when we're values driven, we're just better people and
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  Speaker 2: we're definitely better leaders.
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  Speaker 3: So we get a little dysregulated. We ask ourselves the
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: question so we can figure out what is underneath.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, what's going on? Before I start talking to you,
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  Speaker 1: I need to figure out what's going on with me.
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  Speaker 1: What's going on with me? Well, and it's hard.
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  Speaker 3: To learn how to do this in real time, but
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  Speaker 3: you give us a practical exercise so that we can
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  Speaker 3: begin to practice this. And I kind of played along
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: in my book as I was reading. I took some notes.
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  Speaker 3: It was a little bit harder than I thought it
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  Speaker 3: was going to be because it takes a minute to
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  Speaker 3: get under the surface. But here's what I started thinking.
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  Speaker 3: If you don't know what you really want, you can't
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  Speaker 3: even name what you value. And then you can't even
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  Speaker 3: really lead yourself.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 3: So you started all this because you did a version
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  Speaker 3: of this a long time ago. Yeah. And the answers
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  Speaker 3: that you came up with, they've stuck with you for
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: a long time.
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  Speaker 2: For 30, yeah, 35, 36, 38 years. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Why do you think they've had such staying power?
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  Speaker 1: Well, I think it was the exercise.
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  Speaker 2: And I've talked about this on the podcast before, but
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: I love repeating this and probably because it was so
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: foundational to me. But I just think every leader or
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: every wannabe leader at some point or every human being
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: needs to go.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Through some sort of similar exercise.
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  Speaker 2: So you know, 30, I was either 30 or 31.
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  Speaker 2: And Stephen Covey's book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: had just come out. And it's so funny, Holly, and
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know that you can appreciate this. When that
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: book came out, my mentor and I would meet down
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: at a diner down in Buckhead, which is the business
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: district in Atlanta. And I would walk in this little
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: diner to meet him. And every other table was this
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: book is sitting there.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And my, and my mentor was some years older and
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: he's like, Andy, have you read this? I'm like, Oh
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: my gosh. I, you know, yes. It's like the greatest book.
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  Speaker 2: And he, I remember him saying, he said, people treat
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: it like it's the Bible. I'm like, well, when it
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: comes to leadership, it's kind of the Bible, at least
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: for this generation. So anyway, in that, in that book,
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Stephen Covey recommends that he's talking about, you know, these
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: seven habits and, um, one of the habits is, I
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  Speaker 2: think it's habit number two, is begin with the end
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  Speaker 2: in mind.
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  Speaker 1: Begin with the end in mind.
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  Speaker 2: And as part of that habit, begin with the end
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: in mind, he talks about doing an exercise, a thought exercise,
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: where you imagine yourself at your own funeral and you're
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: listening to people who are important to you talk about you.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: And he says, put the book down and write out
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  Speaker 2: what you would want to hear each of these categories
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: of people say. So like most readers, the goal isn't
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: to do any exercises. I want to finish reading the book.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: So I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. And he suggested,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: you know, if you're married, what do you want? What
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: would you want your spouse to say? What would you
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: want a son to say or a daughter, a best friend,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: a coach, a coworker, a boss? You know, what would
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: you want each of these categories of people to say?
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  Speaker 2: So I read through that and thought, yeah, that's, that's
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: a good idea. But then this sentence, this has stopped me.
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  Speaker 2: This stopped me in my tracks. In fact, after I
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: read what I'm about, I'm about to read, I closed
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: the book. and did the exercise, and the results of
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: that exercise have chased me around and guided me for
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: 30-something years, literally.
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  Speaker 1: Here's what he wrote.
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  Speaker 2: He said, if you carefully consider what you wanted to
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: be said of you at the end, people are doing eulogies.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: If you carefully consider what you wanted to be said
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: of you, you will find your definition of success Or
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: your personal definition of success. And when I read that,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I thought, that's exactly right. And this is beginning with
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the end of mind. If I identify what I want
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: said about me in the end by the people I
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: love and respect the most, then that is success. So
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I closed the book and started writing and spent two
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: or three mornings just thinking through and literally writing out
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: sentence after sentence, then realized, okay, This is a big deal.
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  Speaker 1: I need to narrow this down. So I took it
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: from paragraph to some statements.
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  Speaker 2: And ultimately, I ended up with like nine or 12
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: adjectives and condensed it to seven. Committed those to memory.
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  Speaker 2: I could rattle them off today. I'm not going to
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: because everybody needs to do their own thing. But that exercise, again,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: helped me identify what I really value most. And of course,
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: no surprise. when I thought about what I wanted said
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: of me in the end, again, I was 31. I
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: think I was 31. Had nothing to do with what
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  Speaker 2: I owned, how much money I made, what I wore,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: what I mean, all the appetite, appetite, appetite, right? All
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: the appetite stuff. It's like, and again, and have I
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: ventured outside of that sort of perimeter? Of course I have,
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  Speaker 2: but here's the difference.
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  Speaker 1: And I'll, we need to move on. I know the
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: difference is this. When I step, you know.
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  Speaker 2: If you think about these words as sort of a
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  Speaker 2: perimeter around my behavior or my reactions, and reactions is
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: the big one.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a big one.
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  Speaker 1: Actions and reactions.
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  Speaker 2: When I violate one of those, for me, from that
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: day forward, it wasn't just, oh, that was a discrepancy.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't careful. That was a mistake. That's
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: what everybody says. I made a mistake.
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: No.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: That was failure.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's a big deal. Yeah. There's a couple things
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: you did. Well, first, you did the exercise.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Most people breeze through it.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: And I was about to until that statement. Okay, you're about,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: you have an opportunity, Andy, to discover your personal definition
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: of what success is.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, that seems important.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Well, you also, what you did is you created some
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: definitions around what you meant around the words, which created
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: a ton of clarity. And then you say, when you
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: step outside of it, that's failure, which that's a very
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: strong word. So why such a strong word?
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Because he's correct.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: What we value most is to get to the end
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: of our lives or even the end of a season
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: of our lives and to adhere to what we value
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: most is success.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: That is success.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So to venture away or to allow an appetite to
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: mislead me rather than allow my values to guide me,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: that is failure. So if adhering to values is success,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: then walking away, it's failure. And again, when you put
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: that word on something, Now you're leading yourself well. Other
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: people are like, oh, that was a mistake.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, you didn't mean to do that. Oh, yeah, I'm forgiven. Okay.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: But for me, and it's not about beating yourself up.
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: It's about, again, realigning and deciding, you know, appetites aren't
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: going to go away, but they can't be my guide
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: because they're never fully and finally satisfied.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: It's more and now, more and now, more and now.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And this leads us back to this other tension that
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: I love to talk about, ultimate over immediate or immediate
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: over ultimate.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: Appetites, immediate, values, ultimate.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: And again, and the only person that can determine that
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: for you or determine that for either of.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Us is the person in the mirror. So it comes
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: back to self-leadership.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Well, I love you've even redefined what success is because
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: a lot of leaders, you want to chase outcomes or
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: you want to, you know.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Of course, yeah. And those are important.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: The budget and reach and stuff like that. But you're saying, no,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: success is who you're becoming and if you're in alignment
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: with that, which is, is important. Because as a leader,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: there's always lots of eyes on you. I'm sure our
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: people listening, it's the same. People are watching their decisions,
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: their reactions, their actions. And this made me laugh when
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: I read this in the book. Because one thing that
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: stood out to me is you intentionally left something off
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: your list. You said, I did not write, everyone loved
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: him and approved of everything he did.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So when I imagine people at my funeral that
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: no one said, and the greatest thing, everybody approved of
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: every decision. No. And that's when you realize, okay, This
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: may be another discussion for another day.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Everybody has values. We prioritize values. There are eight important things,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: but there's something that's most important. So people liking me,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: that's important. But when I did this exercise, that didn't
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: even show up in the discussion. So it's not that
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: those things aren't valuable, but there are things that are
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: more valuable. And every single day, every single day, everybody listening,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: We are constantly prioritizing or reprioritizing values all the time.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Until we discover what is really most valuable, it is
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: easy to misprioritize. And again, as you said earlier, we
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: don't do this on purpose. And this is so on
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: point when it comes to leadership, because the more influence
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: we have, the more authority we have, the more power
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: we have, the more people whose lives and livelihoods depend
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: on us. the more important it is that we get
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: this right because the results trickle down.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: They trickle down.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: And ultimately, for the person that's just driven by the
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: bottom line, it will eventually affect the bottom line because
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: the leaders that get out of sorts either with their
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: boards or make decisions that impede the progress of a company,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: in more cases than not, it's personal. It's not just
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: bad judgment because they didn't get good advice and they
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: didn't read the tea leaves correct.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, that happens for sure.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: But the leaders that really, you know, either get taken
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: out or burn out or just walk.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Out, it comes back to this.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: They led themselves there.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they allowed themselves to usually be led by a
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: misguided appetite as opposed to a value.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: So anyway, long answer to that question.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: We've talked about Two commitments already that are going to
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: anchor us from the inside out. No lying.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I will not lie to myself. I'll tell myself the
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: truth even when the truth hurts my feelings.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Yep. And we're going to prioritize what we value.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Value most over want now.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So we're going to work on those two things.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: And if we're not careful, we can kind of do
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: both of those things by ourselves.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: But then you give us a third commitment that does
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: not let us do things by ourself anymore. In fact,
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: you say this, third commitment. I will not attempt to
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: lead myself by myself. And then you tell a story.
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking maybe this is how you first began to
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: learn this commitment. There was a professor that graded you
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: against your potential rather than against your peers. And you're
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: a pretty good public speaker, but you didn't really like
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: the outcome. No.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: When I was writing this part of the book, there
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: were so... When you start writing, it's amazing. You learn,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: or at least I do... I learn when I write,
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: you know, I start off with this little bitty idea
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: that seems like I'll just mention this and then it
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: grows and grows and grows. And so when I think
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: back over the people who have inserted themselves into my
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: life and my decisions to head me off at the past,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: and again, I'll tell the story if you like me
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: for me too. And all of us have those people
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: who got in the way and said, no, no, you know,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: I don't care what you think about me, but no,
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: it's just a reminder that, That is committed as we
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: are to doing the right thing and is committed as
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: we are to becoming the best we can possibly be.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: Nobody becomes the best they can possibly be by themselves.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: So if I want to be a great leader and
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: if I want to be a leader worth following, I
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: have to invite.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: People into the equation.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Early on, they insert themselves because they're teachers and they're
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: coaches and there's parents.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: And they have that authority.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And there's neighbors. Yeah, they have the authority.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: But at some point along the way, you kind of
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: lose that.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: If we don't invite it, it doesn't show up.
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: And we all know from our childhood how grateful we
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: are for the people who were there, who headed us
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: off at the pass. And for some of our listeners
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: who They wish there had been more of those people
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: in their lives. So with that as the backdrop, now
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: that we're adults, now that we're in charge, now that
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: we're the leaders, we either invite it or we don't.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And when we invite it, we benefit from it. And
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: when we resist it, we pay for it. So when
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I was in college, I had a speech class, sort
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: of basic class everybody took in my liberal arts education
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: as a journalism major.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: And he gave me a B on a speech.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: And I sat through all the other speeches and I thought, really?
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I saw a guy's great. And I thought, his speech
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: was terrible. I thought, and I've never done this before.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Dr. Rifkin is the professor. I still remember his name.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know that I could name but a couple
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: other professors from college.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: But I took several classes with Dr. Rifkin. And I
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: waited for everybody to leave.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: And I went up to the desk and I said, Dr.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Rifkin, you gave me basically a B, B plus on this. speech.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And before I could explain why mine was better, he
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: looked at me.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: I remember I'm standing, he's sitting down. He said, you
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: could have done better. You're winging it. And again, you
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: just said it.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: He graded me against my potential, not my performance compared
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: to the other performance.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Well, here I am all these years later, still talking
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: about it.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Again, it just reiterates We can't lead ourselves by ourselves.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: We need input.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: But at this season of our lives, I wrote in
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: my notes, you have to invite it.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: You have to reward it. And then you have to
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: apply it. You've got to invite it.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: And especially the higher up you move in the organization,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: you've got to invite it. Then you've got to reward it.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: In other words, and this is where we kind.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Of had a thing this week.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: We ran into this because we... We don't always, I
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: didn't put, you have to invite it and like it.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: You just have to invite it and you have to
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: reward it. And by reward it, it's like, thank you.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I miss that. Even if you think it's four degrees off,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: you just have, if you don't reward it, especially when
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: you're the person's supervisor. So you got to invite it,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: reward it, and then you got to do something with it.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Well, that's the one I ran into this week. We
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: talked about it and I'd received some feedback, and I
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: wasn't sure if I agreed with it. I definitely probably
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: didn't like it. But what I noticed is I was
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: instinctively puffing.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Up against it. Inside. I mean, not on the outside.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: Hopefully not on the outside. I was trying to control that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: But inside, I was.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: And just for our audience, it wasn't me.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: It was not you.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm your boss. Right.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I try to self-regulate a little bit more.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people are on their best behavior.
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: With the boss. Yeah, right. But what happened is I
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: went home and I was reading your book. And you
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: have this illustration about the pro athlete and the coach.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: And that hit me like a ton of bricks because
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: you talk about how the coach doesn't have to be
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: able to. To outperform the athlete, to add value. And
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: I realized, oh, this is what I'm puffing up against.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: I'm sitting here, you know, making excuses like, well, you
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: couldn't do it or, you know, something like that.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Rather than being like, wow, that's a misperspective that I
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: need to grow.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: So it was hard. Again, these are things you can
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: practice in your day job.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: Well, going back to the illustration you just gave, because
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: as you know, and you're being kind, I got some
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: of that same feedback from the same person.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And there again, it's like, okay, how am I
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: going to respond? And when you mentioned it to me,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: one of the things we.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Talked about is, and this is kind of a lesson
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: for another day maybe, but in those moments, it's not
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: just that we need to respond in such a way
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: that we invite it and we reward it, like thank
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: you and apply it. We're also modeling for the people
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: who report to us how to respond to feedback. And
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: when we as leaders respond to feedback, in the right way,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: the gracious way, the, oh, I'm so glad you pointed
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: that out. You know, I'm not sure I see it
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: that way, but let me think about it. We're modeling
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: for them how we want them to receive feedback. So
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: it's not even just for us to get it right.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: It's what we're modeling for the people around us. But again,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the more authority, the more power, the more influence you've
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: got to invite it, but you can't lead, you know,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: great leaders do not lead themselves by themselves. And for
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: those of us who answer to a board, I answer
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: to a board.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: They have the authority to.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Insert themselves into whatever decisions I'm making or whatever decisions
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I'm considering. But it is if I really want to
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: get this right, I have to invite feedback from the
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: people who report to me and in some cases to
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the people who report to them.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: And if I invite it, chances are they will invite it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And then everybody's.
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: Then we all get better. Right. No, so good. You know,
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: there's so much more to unpack. In this chapter, there's
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: this insight that you have where you talk about the
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: inequity of people at work. It's actually a tension that
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: I feel like I kind of just bumbled into, but
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: you say it so clearly. You say you have a
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: relationship with the people you lead, but it's not the
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: same relationship. That is such a big idea. I've experienced it.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: I had never heard it before. And it's worth picking
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: up the book for just to unpack that. And unfortunately,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: we can't unpack it today because we're out of time.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I was hoping we'd get to that because I do
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: think Yeah, we'll just leave it there. Yeah, but it's
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: super important. And again, it's one of those things, once
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: you see it, you can't unsee it. And then you
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: recognize it when it's happening. And then we just lead better.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: Well, we spent two episodes talking about leading ourselves well.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: So for the leader who's driving into work right now,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: what's one thing they can practice this week?
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Based on this conversation?
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, based on our conversation.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I would say, going back to where we began, to trust.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: To bring the language of appetites want more and now,
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: more and now, more now, and to pay attention to
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: that internal conversation and to catch yourself going, oh, I
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: think what's driving me in this conversation or in this
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: decision or in my hesitation to even respond, whatever it
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: might be, is more and now, more and now.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: That's an appetite. Okay. But what do I value? What
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: do I really want? What do I value most?
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: So I would say just pay attention to that internal
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: dialogue because, again, this is about leading ourselves well. And
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: then secondly— For the person in our podcast audience who
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: has yet to sit down and work through something like
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Stephen Covey's exercise or something similar, to do that so
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: that you discover what you actually value most. And then
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: to condense it to something that's portable and memorable and
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: that you can take with you perhaps for the rest
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: of your life. Let me tell you where this is
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: really going to land or help. It's not just at work.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: It's life in general, but it's really going to help
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: with your children, raising your kids. Well, all three of
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: my kids are in their 30s and married with kids.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: And again, establishing that baseline for me early on, it
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: definitely impacted every relationship, hopefully. It made it easier for
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: me to apologize more. Because I appropriately felt worse about
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: things that perhaps the average person wouldn't feel so bad about.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: Because for me, it wasn't just a mistake. It was failure.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: So if you haven't worked through an exercise or a
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: similar one, I highly recommend that.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: That's so helpful. Thank you. I can't wait for our
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: next conversation. We're going to unpack the second essential next
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: time that great leaders play to their strengths. So I'm
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: looking forward to that. Well, hey, thanks so much for
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: being with us. And before you go, take a minute
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: to subscribe. wherever you access this content. By subscribing, you
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: help us grow the audience, which allows us to keep
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: bringing you great content to help you go further faster.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: And be sure to visit andystanley.com where you can download
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: the Leadership Podcast Application Guide. You're going to get a
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: summary of this episode, plus some questions for reflection for
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: you or a group discussion. Well, we will see you
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: next time right here on the Andy Stanley Leadership Podcast.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Thank you.