Transcript

Sharri | 21 January · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News.
0:04
Speaker 2: This is Sharry.
0:06
Speaker 3: Thanks for joining me. I'm James Macpherson filling in for Sharry.
0:09
Speaker 3: Massive night tonight. First up is the coalition imploding. Every
0:13
Speaker 3: National z MP has now quit the front bench following
0:17
Speaker 3: a late party room meeting this evening, and now there's
0:20
Speaker 3: open talk of a split. More on that, incredible breaking
0:23
Speaker 3: news in just a moment as well. Anthony Albanezi says
0:27
Speaker 3: responsibility starts with me and then points the finger. It's
0:31
Speaker 3: Scott Morrison. Will show you the moment. The pmdug a
0:34
Speaker 3: brand new hole today and why it matters. Key magaloyalist
0:38
Speaker 3: Steve Bannon's talking up a new warmth between Trump and
0:41
Speaker 3: Elbanezi and he's got a very blunt message for Australia
0:45
Speaker 3: about Washington really wants. Next. Plus, we'll look ahead to tomorrow.
0:49
Speaker 3: A reminder that Sky is broadcasting a special program Light
0:53
Speaker 3: will Win tomorrow night, a service to honor the victims
0:57
Speaker 3: of the Bondai terror attack. I'll be discussing them importance
1:00
Speaker 3: of that special event with Dave Sharma shortly, but first,
1:04
Speaker 3: the victim of the Albanese government's hate speech laws appears
1:08
Speaker 3: to be the coalition. The laws were passed last night,
1:12
Speaker 3: and the first group to be disbanded looks like it'll
1:15
Speaker 3: be the Shadow Cabinet. The National Party held an emergency
1:19
Speaker 3: meeting at six pm after three senators who voted against
1:22
Speaker 3: the government's contentious hate speech legislation were booted from the
1:26
Speaker 3: Shadow cabinet. They breached Shadow Cabinet's solidarity by voting no
1:31
Speaker 3: when the Liberals all voted yes. Now, Susan Lee could
1:34
Speaker 3: have let it slip, but if you start letting conservatives
1:38
Speaker 3: within the coalition vote like conservatives in the Senate or
1:40
Speaker 3: the Coalition might end up approaching something like a genuinely
1:43
Speaker 3: conservative party, and for reasons that are completely beyond me,
1:47
Speaker 3: apparently we don't want that. So three National senators, Bridget mackenzie,
1:52
Speaker 3: Susan McDonald and Ross Cadell have now vanished from Susan
1:55
Speaker 3: Lee's front bench. But it gets worse. It's since emerged
2:00
Speaker 3: that Nationals leader David little Proud this morning warned Susan
2:04
Speaker 3: Lee in a handwritten letter that if his colleagues were
2:07
Speaker 3: expelled from Shadow Cabinet for voting against the government's hate
2:10
Speaker 3: speech laws, he too would step down from Shadow Cabinet,
2:14
Speaker 3: and so would the other National Front benches. Susan Lee
2:18
Speaker 3: went ahead and accepted the three rogue senator's resignations. Anyway, Well,
2:22
Speaker 3: about twenty minutes ago, it was being reported that as
2:25
Speaker 3: a result of tonight's party meeting from the Nationals, eight
2:29
Speaker 3: more Nationals MPs, including Leader David little Proud, have now
2:33
Speaker 3: quit the Shadow ministry. That's the entire Nationals front bench gone. Now,
2:40
Speaker 3: that would signal three things. First, it would surely signal
2:44
Speaker 3: an end to the coalition. After all, how do you
2:47
Speaker 3: have a coalition in which one party has zero representation
2:52
Speaker 3: in the shadow ministry. Second, it would surely signal the
2:55
Speaker 3: beginning of the end for Susan Lee. This is an
2:57
Speaker 3: absolute disaster. If you can't keep the coalition together, well
3:03
Speaker 3: you're not the leader. Finally, it would seem to signal
3:06
Speaker 3: that pressure from Pauline Hanson's One Nation is starting to
3:09
Speaker 3: have a real effect. I'll get into all of that
3:13
Speaker 3: with my panel in just a moment. But first, it
3:17
Speaker 3: could have been argued that after the Bondi attacks, Anthony
3:20
Speaker 3: Albanzi had finally scraped the very bottom of the barrel.
3:24
Speaker 3: The wood was splintered, the paint was peeled, I mean,
3:27
Speaker 3: refusing to call a Royal Commission into the worst terror
3:30
Speaker 3: attack in Australian history, an attack that many had warned
3:33
Speaker 3: was coming, that was simply baffling. It took, among others,
3:38
Speaker 3: an eighty eight year old former swimmer to finally shame
3:41
Speaker 3: the Prime Minister of this country into doing the right thing.
3:45
Speaker 4: I will also call out people that have done the
3:47
Speaker 4: wrong thing and who have not stood up for this
3:50
Speaker 4: great country. And to you, Anthony Alberanethi, Tony Burke, Penny Wong,
3:58
Speaker 4: come down off your high horse, stop trying to run
4:00
Speaker 4: for cover. If the Jewish community's calling for a Royal commissioner,
4:05
Speaker 4: then do the right thing by this community.
4:08
Speaker 3: And then, having been dragged kicking and screaming and clinging
4:11
Speaker 3: to the shagpile into calling a royal commission, Anthony Albaneze
4:15
Speaker 3: he had the gall to boast that he deserved credit
4:18
Speaker 3: for it.
4:19
Speaker 5: We've also made sure that we've got this right in
4:23
Speaker 5: an orderly way. This is actually a record time for
4:26
Speaker 5: the calling of a Royal commission.
4:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's record time if you measure urgency using a sundial.
4:33
Speaker 3: Albaneze refused to take any personal responsibility for the attack,
4:36
Speaker 3: despite the fact anti Semitism had exploded on his watch.
4:40
Speaker 3: He eventually said he was sorry for what Jewish Australians
4:43
Speaker 3: had experienced. What he's never said to this day is
4:47
Speaker 3: that he's sorry for what he did or didn't do
4:49
Speaker 3: that helped cultivate a climate in which such an atrocity
4:53
Speaker 3: could occur. Instead, we were treated to the great political
4:56
Speaker 3: non apology of our age. Everyone could have done more.
5:01
Speaker 3: And then the PM boasted that he, unlike lesser Mortals,
5:04
Speaker 3: has never played politics with the issue of antisemitism or
5:08
Speaker 3: the Bondi attack.
5:10
Speaker 5: There shouldn't burning politics in this. This is a moment
5:12
Speaker 5: for the nation to come together. That is something that
5:16
Speaker 5: I have done. I haven't responded to some of the
5:20
Speaker 5: political comments that have been made, including.
5:22
Speaker 3: By mister Freedenberg.
5:25
Speaker 5: I have engaged respectfully, seeking to lower the temperature of
5:30
Speaker 5: this debate.
5:32
Speaker 3: Now, I got to admit that was a good one.
5:34
Speaker 3: This from the man who appointed an envoid to combat
5:36
Speaker 3: antisemitism but then insisted on appointing an envoid to combat
5:40
Speaker 3: Islamophobia as well. Not political, just the diplomatic equivalent of
5:44
Speaker 3: cutting the cake exactly down the middle, so no one
5:47
Speaker 3: can accuse you of giving the other a biggest slice,
5:50
Speaker 3: and the man who's never played politics with antisemitism, refused
5:53
Speaker 3: to consider recommendations on combating anti semitism until he had
5:57
Speaker 3: received recommendations on combating islam phobia. Again, that wasn't politics.
6:02
Speaker 3: That was just well, you know, combining the hate speech
6:05
Speaker 3: laws with the gun laws in his anti semitism legislation.
6:09
Speaker 3: That wasn't playing politics either. The fact that stapling two
6:13
Speaker 3: unrelated bills together just happened to drive a wedge between
6:16
Speaker 3: the Liberals and the Nationals was apparently one of those
6:19
Speaker 3: delightful cosmic coincidences. Albanezer could never have imagined such an outcome.
6:24
Speaker 3: He's as surprised as anyone when gravity works. So yes,
6:29
Speaker 3: it could reasonably have been argued many times over the
6:32
Speaker 3: past two years, and especially over the past four weeks,
6:36
Speaker 3: that Anthony Albaneze had reached rock bottom. Well, I have
6:40
Speaker 3: to say those assessments were tragically premature, because yesterday, just
6:45
Speaker 3: when you thought there was no lower depth left to plumb,
6:48
Speaker 3: the Prime Minister discovered a whole new underground aquifire of
6:51
Speaker 3: absurdity during a heated question time. The same PM who
6:55
Speaker 3: said this at the start of the week.
7:00
Speaker 5: Kennel our anger into meaningful action to ensure an atrocity
7:07
Speaker 5: such as this ken never happen again, and that responsibility
7:12
Speaker 5: starts with me. As Australia's thirty first Prime Minister.
7:18
Speaker 3: Said this yesterday afternoon.
7:21
Speaker 5: The idea that any Semitism began two years ago with
7:25
Speaker 5: the change of government is false, and it's declared to
7:28
Speaker 5: be false by the comments of those opposite in senior positions.
7:33
Speaker 5: Despite the surge in anti semitism on their watch. Did
7:37
Speaker 5: the Morrison government? Did the Morrison Governor appoint a special
7:41
Speaker 5: envoy to combat anti Semitism?
7:43
Speaker 3: No, I'll never play politics with antisemitism. Now can we
7:48
Speaker 3: talk about the liberals record? Responsibility for tackling anti semitism
7:52
Speaker 3: starts with me, So let's begin with a historical audit
7:55
Speaker 3: of Scott Morrison. But wait, as I said, every declaration
7:59
Speaker 3: that Elbaneze has finally reached rock bottom has proven wildly optimistic,
8:03
Speaker 3: because this morning Anthony Oberenezy took his left wing progressive
8:07
Speaker 3: shovel and decided to dig just a little bit more.
8:10
Speaker 3: When asked this morning why he'd pointed the finger at
8:13
Speaker 3: Scott Morrison, the PM replied up, I never.
8:17
Speaker 5: I didn't mention him at all. What I did was
8:21
Speaker 5: I quoted. I quoted the ministers in peace government at
8:28
Speaker 5: the time.
8:30
Speaker 3: Here's the PM yesterday.
8:33
Speaker 5: Despite the surge in anti semitism on their watch. Did
8:37
Speaker 5: the Morrison government? Did the Morrison governor appoint a special
8:41
Speaker 5: envoy to combat anti Semitism?
8:44
Speaker 3: No, here's the PM today.
8:48
Speaker 5: I didn't mention him at all.
8:52
Speaker 3: He never mentioned Scott Morrison in the same way that
8:54
Speaker 3: he never fell off the stage.
8:57
Speaker 6: Okay, Prime Minister, we saw that you fell from the
9:07
Speaker 6: stage and says not this afternoon, are you okay? No?
9:11
Speaker 3: I stepped back one step. I didn't fall off the stage.
9:16
Speaker 3: So in Albanese's Australia, you're not supposed to believe you're
9:19
Speaker 3: lying ears or your lying eyes now one of they
9:22
Speaker 3: hate social media so much. But I digress Albaneze. He
9:26
Speaker 3: was asked again about his criticism of Scott Morrison.
9:30
Speaker 6: Scott Morrison has today described you delusional and cheap for
9:34
Speaker 6: trying to shift blame.
9:35
Speaker 3: Where are you trying to shift blame? And what do
9:37
Speaker 3: you make of his comments? Not at all.
9:40
Speaker 5: Really was simply making the point by quoting what members
9:47
Speaker 5: said at that time in twenty eighteen nineteen. We have
9:52
Speaker 5: strength and hate laws. We have not sought to go
9:58
Speaker 5: over all the detail of the time when we had
10:00
Speaker 5: an Attorney General in this country who said that you
10:04
Speaker 5: have a right to be a bigot. We have know
10:09
Speaker 5: that at that time the attempt to work with to
10:12
Speaker 5: abolish Section eight enc occurred under the former government.
10:17
Speaker 3: So first the PM denies ever mentioning Scott Morrison, and
10:21
Speaker 3: then the PM argues that if he did mention Scott Morrison,
10:24
Speaker 3: it wouldn't have been an exercise in blame shifting, before
10:27
Speaker 3: immediately going on to explain why the Liberals should be blamed.
10:31
Speaker 3: This is what aboutism, you understand? This is merely what
10:33
Speaker 3: about the Liberals. Foreign Minister Penny Wong also joined the performance,
10:37
Speaker 3: bravely insisting on national television this morning that the Prime
10:41
Speaker 3: Minister never tried to shift responsibility for anti Semitism onto
10:44
Speaker 3: Scott Morrison.
10:46
Speaker 7: Why did the PM blame Scott Morrison when this wave
10:49
Speaker 7: of anti Semitism and the Bondi attacks happened on your watch.
10:54
Speaker 2: The PM was making the point that anti Semitism is
10:57
Speaker 2: an ancient hatred. We do know and the Prime Minister
11:02
Speaker 2: has acknowledged this. That s since October seven, we have
11:05
Speaker 2: seen antisemitism increase around the world, including here in Australia,
11:09
Speaker 2: and that is an issue for all of us.
11:12
Speaker 7: He shouldn't have done that though he was passing the buck.
11:14
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that is at all what he
11:17
Speaker 2: is doing, and I think the Prime Minister has been
11:18
Speaker 2: very clear about the responsibility he feels.
11:22
Speaker 3: I understand Elbanzi wasn't blaming Scott Morrison by blaming Scott Morrison,
11:27
Speaker 3: and nor was Albanzi passing the buck by passing comment
11:29
Speaker 3: on Scott Morrison, as Pennywong said, the Prime Minister has
11:33
Speaker 3: been very clear about the responsibility he feels, and now
11:37
Speaker 3: he just wants to talk about the responsibility he feels
11:39
Speaker 3: that other people should feel. I could spend the rest
11:42
Speaker 3: of the program outlining for you the differences between the
11:44
Speaker 3: Morrison government's approach to Israel and the Albanesi governments, but
11:48
Speaker 3: I'm not going to bother And for two reasons. First,
11:51
Speaker 3: Scott Morrison summed it up pretty well last night. Hamas
11:55
Speaker 3: never praised the Morrison government. Hamas did praise the Albanesi
11:59
Speaker 3: government that rather does the heavy lifting. And here's the
12:02
Speaker 3: second reason. I won't compare or contrast Morrison's record with
12:06
Speaker 3: Albanesi's because well, it's rather beside the point. The point
12:10
Speaker 3: is not what the last government did. The point is
12:14
Speaker 3: what this government has done, or has failed to do,
12:17
Speaker 3: and that the Prime Minister still doesn't get that. Well,
12:20
Speaker 3: it's frankly depressing. But then again, it's all rather depressing,
12:24
Speaker 3: isn't it, With everyone on all sides of Parliament admitting
12:27
Speaker 3: the laws passed last night failed to really address anti
12:31
Speaker 3: semitism as we should. The PM was asked if you
12:34
Speaker 3: would consider taking the time to have another go at
12:37
Speaker 3: getting the laws right. Well, he wasn't interested, not even remotely.
12:43
Speaker 5: If you can't get support for these laws in the
12:47
Speaker 5: aftermath of a massacre, it is diffult to see people changing,
12:55
Speaker 5: people changing their mind.
12:59
Speaker 3: To which the public might reply, if as Prime Minister,
13:02
Speaker 3: you're unwilling to do whatever it takes to get the
13:04
Speaker 3: laws right after a massacre, it's difficult to see us
13:08
Speaker 3: changing our mind about you, Which brings me back to
13:12
Speaker 3: Penny Wong. Is it just me or did you too?
13:15
Speaker 3: Find her comments on the Today Show this morning more
13:17
Speaker 3: than a little frustrating. Let me just show you two
13:21
Speaker 3: clips that frankly really annoyed me.
13:23
Speaker 2: Here's the first, the legislation that was passed last night
13:28
Speaker 2: is really important legislation. It deals with two issues. The
13:34
Speaker 2: two issues, as the Prime Minister said, are these. When
13:37
Speaker 2: the Bondai attackers went to Bondai, they had hatred in
13:42
Speaker 2: their minds and guns in their hands, And the National
13:46
Speaker 2: Security Package of legislation we passed last night tackles both
13:50
Speaker 2: of those.
13:51
Speaker 3: The alleged Bondi attackers went to Bondai with hatred in
13:54
Speaker 3: their minds and guns in their hands. Is it just
13:58
Speaker 3: me or do you shake your head when you hear
14:00
Speaker 3: that line from our government's senior ministers. They repeat it regularly.
14:04
Speaker 3: They're supposed to be serious people, and they meant to
14:06
Speaker 3: treat us like serious people. Instead we get these trite lines,
14:11
Speaker 3: no doubt workshopped by a back room full of communications
14:14
Speaker 3: graduates armed with whiteboards and souilartes. The alleged Bondi attackers
14:18
Speaker 3: had hatred in their minds and guns in their hands.
14:21
Speaker 3: It's a very elaborate way of saying they were allegedly
14:24
Speaker 3: Islamic geehrtists targeting Jews. Could we, for the love of
14:28
Speaker 3: civilization stop treating the public like fragile porcelain figurines and
14:33
Speaker 3: just call things what they are. And then there was
14:36
Speaker 3: this gem. Pennywong was asked where the under Labour's new laws,
14:39
Speaker 3: people would be able to say things like Israel's committing
14:42
Speaker 3: a genocide. Now, don't worry too much about the specifics
14:45
Speaker 3: of that, but have a listened to what Pennywong says
14:48
Speaker 3: about the government's position on Israel.
14:51
Speaker 7: So under that under the legislation, people will still be
14:55
Speaker 7: able to all groups, that will still be able to
14:56
Speaker 7: say that.
14:57
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to get into it's not hypotheticals
15:02
Speaker 2: about what can and can't be said. I'm making a
15:04
Speaker 2: point about the way the legislation works.
15:07
Speaker 7: Do you think people should be able to say that?
15:10
Speaker 2: I don't believe that. Well, the government's position is that
15:14
Speaker 2: the state of Israel has a right to exist, and
15:17
Speaker 2: we seek two states because that is the best way
15:20
Speaker 2: to ensure long term peace and security for both Israelis
15:23
Speaker 2: and Palestinian Right.
15:25
Speaker 3: Wow, how generous that's the alban Ezy government's position Israel
15:30
Speaker 3: has a right to exist. That's mighty kind of the
15:33
Speaker 3: alban Ezy government. If you asked me what I thought
15:36
Speaker 3: of you, and I replied, well, I believe you have
15:38
Speaker 3: the right to exist. You wouldn't exactly count that as warmth,
15:42
Speaker 3: would you. Alban Ezy government ministers can keep delivering all
15:45
Speaker 3: the platitudes they like, but that response from Penny Wan
15:49
Speaker 3: tells you everything you need to know. The frightening part
15:53
Speaker 3: is that it also tells those among us who want
15:55
Speaker 3: to continue demonizing Jews everything they need to know as well.
15:59
Speaker 3: No matter what the laws were that were passed last night.
16:06
Speaker 3: All right, I think most of us would agree the
16:08
Speaker 3: Labor Party is doing a terrible disservice to the country,
16:12
Speaker 3: to which the Coalition have replied, hold my beer. Every
16:15
Speaker 3: National's MP has resigned from Susan Lee's front bench after
16:19
Speaker 3: a late party room meeting this evening over the rift
16:22
Speaker 3: that formed regarding the government's hate speech laws. This started
16:26
Speaker 3: with Bridget mackenzie, Susan McDonald and Ross Cadell all jumping
16:30
Speaker 3: before they were pushed, and now the Liberal National Coalition
16:33
Speaker 3: has no national representation in the Shadow ministry. Joining me
16:37
Speaker 3: is my panel Sky and News contributed Joe Hildebrand and
16:40
Speaker 3: former Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger. Welcome to you both,
16:44
Speaker 3: by people you're in Israel. I want to ask you
16:47
Speaker 3: about Israel in a moment, but we've got to talk
16:49
Speaker 3: about this fragmentation or should I say explosion within the coalition.
16:54
Speaker 3: He is shocked at this news.
16:58
Speaker 1: Well, I'm disappointed by a profound I mean, at the
17:01
Speaker 1: shadow cabinet meeting two days ago, the National Party agreed
17:04
Speaker 1: to support the coalition position on the legislation and then
17:08
Speaker 1: without much warning, three shadow ministers in the Senate then
17:12
Speaker 1: change their mind and now all of them have resigned.
17:15
Speaker 1: So this is a problem and totally if the National
17:18
Speaker 1: Party's creation, not of Susan Lee. The Liberal Parties remain
17:22
Speaker 1: firm and united on the issue, and David has to
17:26
Speaker 1: sort this out. It's unprecedented for all the National Party
17:29
Speaker 1: eight now to be on the back bench. So we're
17:31
Speaker 1: in coalition with no National Party members on the front bench.
17:33
Speaker 1: That's probably unsustainable, but it's a matter of the National
17:36
Speaker 1: Party and you know they've got to come back to
17:39
Speaker 1: Susan lead in the Liberal Party leadership. Were the proposal
17:42
Speaker 1: to keep the coalition together, because that's ultimately the best
17:45
Speaker 1: way James of defeating the Lower Party the next election.
17:49
Speaker 3: Joe, I'm not sure that you can have all your
17:51
Speaker 3: members quit the front bench and then come up with
17:53
Speaker 3: a proposal to keep the coalition intact.
17:56
Speaker 8: But it's not about the coalition, James, haven't you heard
17:58
Speaker 8: this has an effective reflect on the coalition at all.
18:00
Speaker 8: It's just that the coalition has no members of one
18:03
Speaker 8: party of the coalition on the actual front bench that
18:06
Speaker 8: develops coalition policy. But it's still I think this is
18:10
Speaker 8: terminal for Susan Lee. I think they have played this
18:14
Speaker 8: incredibly badly. I mean, I just I have not seen obviously,
18:20
Speaker 8: Anthony Albanezi, as they have been saying for weeks and
18:22
Speaker 8: weeks and weeks, views everything through a political lens. You know,
18:26
Speaker 8: whether I agree with all that or not, That's what
18:29
Speaker 8: they have been saying, That's what they have said he
18:31
Speaker 8: is doing. And they have just walked right into this
18:36
Speaker 8: giant political a bomb that anyone could see from space.
18:40
Speaker 8: I mean, they only had to read my columns to
18:42
Speaker 8: read to know that this is what was going to
18:44
Speaker 8: happen to them.
18:45
Speaker 3: I mean, what did that?
18:47
Speaker 8: Had they not canvassed how they would respond to hate
18:51
Speaker 8: speech legislation that they have been calling for, they say, oh,
18:54
Speaker 8: he hasn't done enough to tackle anti Semitism. Did they
18:57
Speaker 8: ever sit down and say, all right, what if the
19:00
Speaker 8: government bans anti Semitism. What would that law look like?
19:04
Speaker 8: How would that impact on free speech?
19:05
Speaker 9: Would you do it?
19:06
Speaker 3: Would you do it? Would you?
19:07
Speaker 8: How are we going to do this? And it shows
19:09
Speaker 8: that also I think that they're supposed close ties or
19:14
Speaker 8: relationships to the Jewish community is pretty skin deep. The
19:19
Speaker 8: Jewish community has always supported things like eighteen C, even
19:24
Speaker 8: when free speech advocates on the right and free speech
19:28
Speaker 8: advocates libertarians or free speech advocates the Center, like myself
19:32
Speaker 8: have had reservations about it. Shari herself in whose August
19:36
Speaker 8: thrown you are sitting, I remember publicly on Q and A.
19:40
Speaker 8: I think it was that I actually support ADNC and
19:43
Speaker 8: courageously in typical Shari form that was going against her
19:47
Speaker 8: own newspaper at the time, in the Australian that was
19:49
Speaker 8: campaigning against it. And so if the Liberal Party didn't
19:54
Speaker 8: know that there was an obvious split here between a
19:57
Speaker 8: typical sort of conservative position on freeh of speech and
20:00
Speaker 8: discrimination law and what the actual Jewish community wants and
20:05
Speaker 8: has been pushing for, and what the PM did on
20:08
Speaker 8: their behalf, if they did not see this coming from space,
20:13
Speaker 8: they just should not be in politics. They say, oh,
20:16
Speaker 8: you know, he's playing politics or seeing anything through your
20:17
Speaker 8: political leans. He's a politician, that is obviously what you
20:21
Speaker 8: are going to do, and he knew this was going
20:24
Speaker 8: to blow them up, and it blew them to smithereens,
20:26
Speaker 8: I think, beyond his wildest expectations. And they look like
20:29
Speaker 8: a bunch of rank amateurs.
20:31
Speaker 3: They certainly do. And of course Anthony OPHI's is a
20:33
Speaker 3: very good politician. Of course it's not playing. It could
20:36
Speaker 3: have been worse, though. Justiner Price tweeted this evening that
20:40
Speaker 3: she regrets missing the vote because she would have voted
20:43
Speaker 3: no against these laws, which would have been an even
20:46
Speaker 3: bigger disaster. Michael, let me ask you. You've put this
20:49
Speaker 3: on David little Proud. You've said he needs to sort
20:52
Speaker 3: this out. If the Nationals leave the coalition. Can Susan
20:57
Speaker 3: Lee conceivably remain as the leader of the Liberal Party?
21:00
Speaker 3: Is she done well?
21:02
Speaker 1: I think so because you know, as I said, James,
21:04
Speaker 1: this is done by the way, that's a brilliant editorial
21:06
Speaker 1: of yours at the beginning of the show, I should say,
21:09
Speaker 1: this is not a this is not a question for
21:10
Speaker 1: Susan Lee or the Liberal Party. You know, we had
21:13
Speaker 1: the shadow cabinet meeting there was the unanimous support for
21:16
Speaker 1: the legislation, and the next we heard was these three
21:19
Speaker 1: National Party senators changing their mind. So this is not
21:23
Speaker 1: a question for the Liberal Party in any way, shape
21:26
Speaker 1: or form. Obviously it's better if the coalition is kept together,
21:30
Speaker 1: and we were the Liberal Party was shocked as anyone
21:32
Speaker 1: when we saw what the National Party did. No, this
21:35
Speaker 1: is for David to sort out. This is for David
21:37
Speaker 1: to sort out, and David's got to consider his position.
21:39
Speaker 1: This is now the second time we've had a bloke
21:41
Speaker 1: with the National Party the election. We knew they left
21:43
Speaker 1: the coalition after the election to sort themselves out. Now
21:47
Speaker 1: we've had this happen. You know, the National Party has
21:49
Speaker 1: to have a good hard look at itself. It's lost
21:52
Speaker 1: three important members in recent years, including a form of
21:56
Speaker 1: ebony prime minister. They've got to work out where they're going.
21:59
Speaker 1: It's not a question for the Liberal Party, James.
22:01
Speaker 3: Well, you mentioned the former Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce,
22:04
Speaker 3: who of course has gone to One Nation. So I've
22:06
Speaker 3: got to ask the question, Joe, how much is one
22:09
Speaker 3: nation now affecting the behavior of the Liberals and the Nationals.
22:12
Speaker 3: One Nation were violently opposed to these hate speech laws and.
22:17
Speaker 8: She might being great friends of the Jewish community that
22:19
Speaker 8: called for them. Well another interesting pairing, It.
22:22
Speaker 3: Can be great friends of the Jewish community and say
22:24
Speaker 3: the opposite of got there as well drafted. Nor have
22:27
Speaker 3: they been given enough consideration? But how much is one nation?
22:31
Speaker 3: And they're rising the polls ye outpolling the coalition in
22:35
Speaker 3: news poll now affecting.
22:36
Speaker 8: It's clearly spooking the Nats and there's no question about that.
22:40
Speaker 8: And the Liberal Party itself, as John Howard famously said,
22:42
Speaker 8: has always been a broad church. You add the Gnats
22:44
Speaker 8: into that, it becomes even broader. And if you have
22:48
Speaker 8: a force like one nation threatening a rearguard sort of
22:53
Speaker 8: attack on the Gnats from their base, then that becomes
22:56
Speaker 8: an even bigger problem. And look it is you know,
22:58
Speaker 8: I don't envy Susan Lee position. But again, if you
23:02
Speaker 8: are going to decide that it's more important to pander
23:05
Speaker 8: to your base than to try to appeal to middle Australia,
23:09
Speaker 8: which is where elections in this country are won and lost,
23:12
Speaker 8: and you've decided that you know your own preselection or
23:14
Speaker 8: your own seat is more important than your party winning government,
23:18
Speaker 8: well that's what you're going to get. And that's obviously
23:21
Speaker 8: one thing that these National senators are thinking about, given
23:24
Speaker 8: that they have agreed, as Michael said, in the party
23:27
Speaker 8: oh yeah, solidarity, solidarity, and then they've sort of had
23:30
Speaker 8: to think about it. Maybe they've had a bit of
23:31
Speaker 8: a look on Twitter, seeing what the base is saying
23:34
Speaker 8: about it and thinking, holy crap.
23:37
Speaker 3: Michael, is there any scenario in which the Nationals leave
23:40
Speaker 3: the coalition which I think they've got to now they
23:43
Speaker 3: have no representation on the Shadow cabinet and form a
23:47
Speaker 3: coalition with one Nation another like minded independence and minor parties.
23:54
Speaker 1: I think there's zero chance of that happening. That's not
23:58
Speaker 1: going to happen. But look, you know, to take point,
24:00
Speaker 1: I mean, Joe, I think you're right. I mean, one
24:03
Speaker 1: Nation is having an effect on the National Party. They're
24:05
Speaker 1: basically both rural based parties, and it is having effect
24:09
Speaker 1: on the National Party. I think you'd be foolish to
24:11
Speaker 1: deny that it's not really having any impact on the
24:13
Speaker 1: Liberal Party. We've stood pretty firm in our views on
24:16
Speaker 1: these issues. But yeah, I think it has that an
24:18
Speaker 1: effect on the National Party. I mean, you just have
24:20
Speaker 1: a look at the polling where one nation is at
24:22
Speaker 1: the minute where the National Party is at the minute,
24:24
Speaker 1: and that tells you everything you need to know. But
24:27
Speaker 1: then that'sity to sort themselves out. I'll give you this
24:29
Speaker 1: tip though. They will sort themselves out one way or
24:31
Speaker 1: the other. And the coalition if it does break out now,
24:34
Speaker 1: break down now, it'll be back to get them for
24:35
Speaker 1: the next election. We've seen this cycle over the generations.
24:39
Speaker 1: We've seen this come and go over the years. Will
24:41
Speaker 1: they won't they? So you know this is very bad
24:46
Speaker 1: for the coalition at the minute, obviously you'd be foolish
24:48
Speaker 1: to deny that. But long term, because of the pressure
24:51
Speaker 1: of politics, the need to work together to defeat Labor,
24:54
Speaker 1: it'll come back together if in fact does break down.
24:56
Speaker 3: Now, well, I'll tell you what if it breaks down
24:59
Speaker 3: and then they get back together. This is the most dysfunctional
25:01
Speaker 3: relationship since I don't know. Michael before Beckham and exactly Michael,
25:09
Speaker 3: before I let you go, I said, you're in Israel
25:11
Speaker 3: at the moment. Thanks for joining us. By the way
25:13
Speaker 3: from Israel, what are you doing there? Tell us about
25:16
Speaker 3: it as quickly.
25:18
Speaker 1: Well, I should say, by the way, apropos of Australian politics,
25:22
Speaker 1: there's a massive Global Antisemitism Conference in Jerusalem next week,
25:27
Speaker 1: where Scott Morrison is one of the speakers. So the
25:29
Speaker 1: Jews in Israel obviously don't tend to agree with the
25:31
Speaker 1: Prime Minister on his comments on Scott, Who's the hero
25:35
Speaker 1: of the Jewish community over here in Israel. I'm on
25:39
Speaker 1: my way to the Gaza strip by Frankly Joe with
25:43
Speaker 1: the IDF. There's fourteen journalists going there shortly and I'll
25:49
Speaker 1: be one of them. So I'll be going into Gaza
25:52
Speaker 1: through one of the crossings and I'll give you a
25:54
Speaker 1: report after well.
25:56
Speaker 3: We'll be fascinated to hear about that. Be safe, and
26:00
Speaker 3: we'll look forward to hearing your reports when you return.
26:03
Speaker 3: Michael Kroger, Joe Hildebrand, thanks for joining me all right now.
26:08
Speaker 3: We should be talking about the failings of the Albanesi
26:10
Speaker 3: government tonight, but instead we're trawling through the mess the
26:13
Speaker 3: Coalition have created for themselves. As I said, every National
26:17
Speaker 3: Party member in the shadow cabinet quitting their positions amid
26:20
Speaker 3: a disagreement over the government's controversial new hate speech laws,
26:23
Speaker 3: and there's talk that that could spiral into an absolute
26:27
Speaker 3: split if the Nationals decided they needed a new dance
26:31
Speaker 3: partner One Nation is standing in the corner looking pretty attractive.
26:34
Speaker 3: Right now. Joining me to discuss is Liberal Senator Dave Sharma. Dave,
26:39
Speaker 3: thanks for coming on the program. Extraordinary, extraordinary evening. Let's
26:46
Speaker 3: start with the question, how big a deal is it
26:48
Speaker 3: when shadow ministers vote against the shadow cabinet line, because
26:53
Speaker 3: that's what precipitated that this whole episode, So just start there.
26:57
Speaker 3: How big a deal was that?
27:01
Speaker 9: I should say, James, I'm also still happy to talk
27:03
Speaker 9: about the failings of the album Easy Government, but I
27:06
Speaker 9: appreciate this as more topical. Look, the principle at stake
27:10
Speaker 9: here is one of cabinet solidarity. You can't have a
27:13
Speaker 9: coalition agreement that's like cart where you take what you
27:16
Speaker 9: want and neglect what you want. The whole idea behind
27:19
Speaker 9: the coalition agreement is that internal differences of view and
27:24
Speaker 9: equities and stakeholders are all resolved internally, and then you
27:28
Speaker 9: adopt a positions the shadow Cabinet, you take it to
27:30
Speaker 9: the Joint party room. If the party room supports it,
27:33
Speaker 9: then you know all members, and certainly are members of
27:36
Speaker 9: the ministry or the shadow Ministry are bound to vote
27:39
Speaker 9: for it. And it's not tenable to have a situation
27:42
Speaker 9: where at one party in the shadow cabinet supports a
27:46
Speaker 9: policy but then does not support it when it comes
27:48
Speaker 9: to the Flora Parliament. And I think you know that's
27:51
Speaker 9: well recognized as a political principle across the island throughout
27:55
Speaker 9: the history of the Liberal and the National parties as well.
27:58
Speaker 3: So how tenable is it to have a where one
28:00
Speaker 3: party is not in the shadow ministry at all by choice?
28:06
Speaker 9: Well, I'm not sure if it is James and I
28:08
Speaker 9: think ultimately that will be a question for the Nationals.
28:11
Speaker 9: I don't want to see the end of the coalition,
28:14
Speaker 9: but we've had a situation now where they have all,
28:17
Speaker 9: as I understand, and resigned from the front bench. I
28:20
Speaker 9: think they need to provide a way forward for how
28:23
Speaker 9: they think the coalition arrangement can continue to function, or
28:26
Speaker 9: if indeed whether it can continue to function. And I think,
28:30
Speaker 9: as one of your earlier guests said Michael Kroger, I
28:33
Speaker 9: think the ball was very much in the National's court here.
28:36
Speaker 3: Did Susan le have to accept these resignations, as I
28:39
Speaker 3: said earlier in the show. Apparently David Little Proud did
28:42
Speaker 3: warn her earlier in the day. If you accept these resignations.
28:47
Speaker 3: We are done completely from the front bench. Should she
28:51
Speaker 3: have tried to patch this up and keep things together
28:54
Speaker 3: so that people like yourself can focus on the government
28:57
Speaker 3: rather than your own internal machination.
29:01
Speaker 9: Look, I would very much prefer to be focusing on
29:03
Speaker 9: the government rather than our internal machinations. But you know,
29:07
Speaker 9: I would say if you run that thought experiment and
29:11
Speaker 9: the resignations were not accepted, then I think effectively you're
29:15
Speaker 9: saying that you know, regardless of what the position is
29:18
Speaker 9: that's adopted by the Shadow Shadow Ministry, can vote according
29:22
Speaker 9: to their own views and perspectives, and that's not a
29:25
Speaker 9: recipe to be a credible or an effective opposition. It's
29:28
Speaker 9: certainly not a recipe to present ourselves as a credible
29:30
Speaker 9: alternative government. I think there's an important issue of principle
29:33
Speaker 9: at stake here. And bear in mind after the last election,
29:36
Speaker 9: when the coalition was being formed, but it looked for
29:40
Speaker 9: period those I would not be formed. That had been
29:43
Speaker 9: the hurdle that the Nationals had come to Susan Lee
29:46
Speaker 9: with a position saying we don't want to be bound
29:49
Speaker 9: by cabinet solidarity on all issues. And Susan righty said
29:52
Speaker 9: at the time. Well, look, that's a red line and
29:55
Speaker 9: Susan's party room, the Liberal party room, agreed with that
29:58
Speaker 9: position in Thailand. I don't see that as changed at all.
30:00
Speaker 9: I don't think it's tenable. It can be functional. I don'
30:04
Speaker 9: think you can be effective if that sort of principle
30:06
Speaker 9: is not upheld.
30:07
Speaker 3: All right, do you mind if we talk about something
30:09
Speaker 3: other than the coalition? Is that all right?
30:11
Speaker 9: I'll vitilight it, James.
30:14
Speaker 3: Let's move on to more interesting topics and preps some
30:18
Speaker 3: things that are probably a bit more helpful. Tomorrow night
30:20
Speaker 3: from seven pm, we've got a special broadcast here on
30:23
Speaker 3: Sky News. We'd love viewers to join us for an
30:26
Speaker 3: incredibly important event. It's called Light Will Win. It's a
30:30
Speaker 3: national service of unity and remembrance honoring the victims of
30:33
Speaker 3: the Bondai terror attack, broadcast here on Sky News tomorrow
30:37
Speaker 3: night from seven pm. It's being organized by the Chabad
30:41
Speaker 3: of Bondai and hosted by our very own Sharing markson Dave.
30:45
Speaker 3: It's going to be an incredibly powerful and moving service.
30:47
Speaker 3: There's going to be survivors, families, first responders, faith leaders,
30:51
Speaker 3: political leaders. Anthony Albinezi will be taking part, as Will
30:55
Speaker 3: Chris Mins, how does that message of light will win
31:00
Speaker 3: resonate with you?
31:03
Speaker 9: I think it's very important. I think it's a very
31:05
Speaker 9: worthwhile initiative. I met Rabbi Allman last week. Here's the
31:10
Speaker 9: Rabbi of Habad of Bondai, and it was his community,
31:14
Speaker 9: the Russian Jewish community, that was the most figured, most
31:19
Speaker 9: highly amongst those killed and injured in the Bondai terrorist attack.
31:22
Speaker 9: And I know he's very personally attached to this project,
31:25
Speaker 9: and I think it's important we all get behind it
31:27
Speaker 9: because it's about honoring the memory of the victims, making
31:32
Speaker 9: sure we do not forget the loss and those grieving
31:35
Speaker 9: family members they've left behind, but also hardening our resolve
31:39
Speaker 9: or strengthening our resolve to make sure we do everything
31:42
Speaker 9: to ensure that the Jewish community can live safely in
31:46
Speaker 9: Australia and that indeed Australia is safe for all Australians.
31:50
Speaker 3: And Dave, just before I let you go, one of
31:52
Speaker 3: the things I really like about the event tomorrow night
31:55
Speaker 3: broadcast here at seven pm, is it's being held at
31:58
Speaker 3: the Sydney Opera House, which I think is a really
32:01
Speaker 3: good thing. After those shocking scenes we saw at the
32:04
Speaker 3: Opera House in the aftermath of the October seven attack.
32:08
Speaker 3: To have something like this sad, though it will be
32:11
Speaker 3: because it's honoring those whose lives were taken and yet
32:16
Speaker 3: to be able to do it at the Opera House.
32:18
Speaker 3: And I don't know. I guess reclaim that space is
32:22
Speaker 3: a good thing.
32:23
Speaker 9: I think, I think that's right. I'll be there tomorrow night, James,
32:27
Speaker 9: and I'm looking forward to it. But I think you know,
32:29
Speaker 9: the Opera House was appropriated by people who had hating
32:34
Speaker 9: their souls and venom in their hearts, two days after
32:38
Speaker 9: the worst loss of Jewish life in a single day
32:40
Speaker 9: since the Holocaust, and it's important that we reclaimed the
32:44
Speaker 9: Opera House for all Australians and reassert our national identity
32:48
Speaker 9: of a nation of people who support living with one another,
32:52
Speaker 9: harbor hostility and animosity to none, and believe we should
32:55
Speaker 9: all be able to live together in this country without
32:58
Speaker 9: importing foreign hatreds.
33:00
Speaker 3: Like I said, that'll be broadcast on Sky News here
33:02
Speaker 3: tomorrow night, seven pm, but encourage you to tune in.
33:05
Speaker 3: It'll be a really moving and powerful event. Dave Sharma,
33:09
Speaker 3: thanks for joining me, all right, We when we go
33:11
Speaker 3: to a break still to come Steve Bannon says Australia
33:14
Speaker 3: is in Trump's good books even with Albinizi as the leader.
33:17
Speaker 3: But what would Trump really love to see in Australia.
33:20
Speaker 3: Professor of American Politics Tim Lynch joins me after the
33:24
Speaker 3: break Key maggaloyalist Steve Bannon has given an interview to
33:31
Speaker 3: the Sydney Morning Herald where he says Australia's reputation went
33:35
Speaker 3: from being beloved among US conservatives to shot after COVID,
33:40
Speaker 3: but he reckons that's now flipped and there's plenty of
33:42
Speaker 3: love between Donald Trump and Anthony Albanezi. Of course, Steve
33:46
Speaker 3: Bannon said a more magastyle government in Canberra would receive
33:50
Speaker 3: even more love. We can but dream. Joining me now
33:53
Speaker 3: to discuss is Professor of American Politics Tim Lynch. Tim,
33:58
Speaker 3: Welcome to the program. This renewed love for Australia. Is
34:02
Speaker 3: it because of personality Kevin Rudd and Anthony Albanezi or
34:07
Speaker 3: is it more pragmatism. Steve Bennon made the point that
34:10
Speaker 3: Elbin Ezy isn't exactly his cup of tea, but absolutely
34:15
Speaker 3: central to Trump's love for Australia is our strategic location
34:19
Speaker 3: in the Indo Pacific.
34:21
Speaker 10: Hi, James, glad to be here. Yes, Well, I think
34:26
Speaker 10: we're always in danger because we are in Australia. Are
34:29
Speaker 10: thinking that the world's pre eminent superpower thinks about us
34:34
Speaker 10: a lot and my suspicion and it belies Bannon's commentary. Bannon, course,
34:40
Speaker 10: is not in the administration. Actually, we're not front and
34:46
Speaker 10: center of Trump's thinking. There's very little suggest that's the case.
34:50
Speaker 10: He didn't know who Kevin Rudd was even though he
34:53
Speaker 10: was sat six feet from him across the table last year.
34:57
Speaker 10: I think he has Bannon's right here, a warm and
35:00
Speaker 10: fuzzy appreciation of Australia. But I've never met an American
35:05
Speaker 10: politician that doesn't think of us as mates. And it's
35:10
Speaker 10: one of the extraordinary achievements of Australian culture and its
35:13
Speaker 10: diplomacy that Americans see us as instinctively tied to their experiment.
35:22
Speaker 10: We share the same values in popular culture. Now, does
35:25
Speaker 10: this mean that Donald Trump is going to cut us
35:28
Speaker 10: slack when it comes to issues of trade, when it
35:33
Speaker 10: comes to the containment of China. Well, I think that
35:38
Speaker 10: word promised never to use when we talked about Donald Trump,
35:41
Speaker 10: but it seems unavoidable in the current moment. He's transactional
35:44
Speaker 10: and he'll see what good Australia can serve based on
35:49
Speaker 10: the trade or geostrategic issue that he chooses to confront.
35:54
Speaker 10: But I would just be skeptical that he thinks deeply
35:57
Speaker 10: about our geostrategic predicament. We can be helpful, but we're
36:01
Speaker 10: not fundamental.
36:02
Speaker 3: I think to his worldview, well, he hasn't got around
36:06
Speaker 3: to appointing an ambassador to Australia. I have noted that.
36:10
Speaker 3: Let me just go back to Steve Bennan's comment though,
36:12
Speaker 3: that Australia really lost a lot of credibility with conservative
36:17
Speaker 3: Americans during COVID because of our response to the pandemic.
36:23
Speaker 3: Do you agree with that assessment.
36:24
Speaker 10: Yes, no, I think that's very true, and our political
36:28
Speaker 10: class here like to posture on how brave the experiment
36:34
Speaker 10: in popular control was and the role out of the
36:38
Speaker 10: COVID vaccine. In the United States, which also has a
36:41
Speaker 10: federal system, their federal system played it really very differently.
36:45
Speaker 10: I was in Wyoming, the reddest of red states, at
36:48
Speaker 10: the tail end of COVID in twenty twenty two. There,
36:53
Speaker 10: the mask mandate lasted a matter of days before popular
36:57
Speaker 10: discontent meant it wasn't, wasn't couldn't be enforced. That notion
37:05
Speaker 10: of what Australia is the opposite of that that it
37:08
Speaker 10: sucks up to government, that we need government in a
37:11
Speaker 10: way which is in opposition I think to where America
37:16
Speaker 10: came from. That's born against government against the same government
37:20
Speaker 10: in the late eighteenth century. Whereas we sought government protection
37:24
Speaker 10: because of our distance, America sought to free itself from it.
37:28
Speaker 10: Trump is not a big reader of history, but I
37:31
Speaker 10: think he gets instinctively that the American system is predicated
37:37
Speaker 10: on a different understanding of government power, even though he
37:40
Speaker 10: rather likes from time to time to over use that power.
37:43
Speaker 3: Well, that segues nicely to the other thing I wanted
37:46
Speaker 3: to ask you about, and that's Trump threatening to use
37:50
Speaker 3: his power, whether militarily or financially, to take hold of Greenland.
37:55
Speaker 3: He's told reporters you'll find out when asked how far
37:59
Speaker 3: he will go, but he's also said will work something
38:02
Speaker 3: out regarding Greenland as he heads to DeVos to face
38:06
Speaker 3: NATO leaders. All the while he's ramping up tariff threats
38:09
Speaker 3: against key European allies. Macron has pushed back, warning against
38:15
Speaker 3: new imperialism, and the EU is hinting at major trade retaliation.
38:19
Speaker 3: So it's all happening. What do you take from Trump
38:23
Speaker 3: saying will work something out. Is that a climb down
38:27
Speaker 3: or is this just classic Trump? He'll go hard, then
38:30
Speaker 3: he'll go soft, and eventually he'll sort of get you
38:34
Speaker 3: to a point where you'll agree to what he believes
38:36
Speaker 3: is best for the US.
38:38
Speaker 10: Oh, I think we've known Trump long enough now to
38:42
Speaker 10: know what classic Trump is, and he's entering his zenith.
38:46
Speaker 10: I mean, I think I've said for the whole of
38:49
Speaker 10: the first year of the second term that this is
38:51
Speaker 10: likely to be the most activist, the most interventionist. That's
38:56
Speaker 10: carried over, of course into the second year of this
38:59
Speaker 10: second term, with it the deposing of regimes in his
39:02
Speaker 10: own backyard the last year, the attacking of Iran. He
39:08
Speaker 10: has an understanding of world politics which we need a
39:11
Speaker 10: kind of nineteenth century great man template to try and understand.
39:15
Speaker 10: He sees himself in a tradition that goes back to
39:19
Speaker 10: people like Napoleon. In an American example, someone like Andrew Jackson,
39:24
Speaker 10: who's prepared to stick it to the old sources of power.
39:29
Speaker 10: You remember Andrew Jackson, the guy that had hair almost
39:32
Speaker 10: as flamboyant as Donald Trump. He waged a war against
39:37
Speaker 10: Spain to free Florida from Spanish control. There is a
39:41
Speaker 10: long history in the United States of seizing territory back
39:45
Speaker 10: from the old, the old imperialists. Now, I don't think
39:49
Speaker 10: that Trump reads those history books, but he has imbibed
39:53
Speaker 10: a certain understanding that territory counts. I mean, this is
39:57
Speaker 10: a millennia old imperative of great power politics, and he
40:04
Speaker 10: seems to be a modern reinvention of it. And we
40:07
Speaker 10: lack the vocabulary in our campuses and in our journals,
40:11
Speaker 10: in the elite class to understand a man who doesn't
40:15
Speaker 10: see international law as the moral arbiter, but sees violent
40:19
Speaker 10: and force. He's ancient tools of power. They've come to
40:24
Speaker 10: the fore, and we need a new vocabulary to try
40:27
Speaker 10: and understand them.
40:29
Speaker 3: You kind of lost me at flamboyant here, because I
40:31
Speaker 3: just thought that would be a wonderful thing to have,
40:34
Speaker 3: tim But and you know, you talk about Trump with
40:37
Speaker 3: this the idea of the great man leader. I don't know.
40:40
Speaker 3: In Australia, Gie, we'd love someone who was even approaching
40:44
Speaker 3: that sort of description. It's interesting times, It's very interesting
40:49
Speaker 3: watching Donald Trump. Tim Lynch, fascinating to talk with you.
40:53
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your time tonight. We're going to
40:55
Speaker 3: go to a break. But coming up, paul In Hanson's
40:58
Speaker 3: writing a remarkable polling surge. How did one nation go
41:01
Speaker 3: from six point five percent at the last election that
41:04
Speaker 3: was just what ten months ago to around one in
41:07
Speaker 3: five voters today? David Gazzard and Michael Danby, they're going
41:11
Speaker 3: to join me in just a moment. All right, show
41:17
Speaker 3: me a political poll right now, and I'll show you.
41:19
Speaker 3: Pauline Hanson smiling like the cat that got the budget.
41:22
Speaker 3: News poll resolved, Monitor now the Freshwater poll all have
41:25
Speaker 3: one nation surging. Joining me. Now's my panel, DPG Advisory
41:30
Speaker 3: Solutions founding director David Gazzard and former Labor MP Michael Danby.
41:34
Speaker 3: Welcome to you both. The Freshwater poll has one nation's
41:38
Speaker 3: primary vote on nineteen percent. News poll had it on
41:41
Speaker 3: twenty two percent. But whatever at the last election, not
41:44
Speaker 3: even a year ago, one nation's primary vote was less
41:48
Speaker 3: than a third of that. David, I'll start with you.
41:51
Speaker 3: What happened six and a half percent to nineteen percent
41:54
Speaker 3: or twenty two percent in about eight months.
41:57
Speaker 11: It's extraordinary James, I mean, thanks for ags and happy
42:02
Speaker 11: New Year to you and your viewers. There's really two
42:06
Speaker 11: inarguable sort of polling trends that have happened over the
42:09
Speaker 11: last ten months. The first is the rise of One
42:12
Speaker 11: Nation and the.
42:13
Speaker 3: Second is.
42:16
Speaker 11: The crashing of the Liberal Coalition vote from sort of
42:19
Speaker 11: thirty two to roughly twenty two, So give it ten
42:22
Speaker 11: percentage points over the last ten months. And so I
42:25
Speaker 11: think this is what you're seeing now with the precipitation
42:28
Speaker 11: of the National front bench, the National Party front bench
42:33
Speaker 11: walking away today to what they would see as the
42:36
Speaker 11: precipitation of a leadership chance to put pressure on Susan Lee.
42:43
Speaker 3: Well, let me ask you, Michael, who should be the
42:47
Speaker 3: most worried by One Nation's rise, Anthony Albanezi or Susan Lee.
42:53
Speaker 12: Both I have a slightly different take on this. So
42:56
Speaker 12: I think if you look at the combined one Nation
42:59
Speaker 12: Liberal National Party vote in both polls, one shows that
43:05
Speaker 12: that is forty three together versus Labor forty five, and
43:08
Speaker 12: the other shows extraordinarily with the Green supporting Labor, they'm
43:13
Speaker 12: only forty and the LNP One Nation vote at forty six.
43:19
Speaker 12: I think it's going to be evaporate a bit as
43:23
Speaker 12: the election comes on. But the big story is James.
43:26
Speaker 12: If one nation is polling more than fourteen percent in
43:30
Speaker 12: each state, as they would be if they're on twenty
43:33
Speaker 12: two percent nationally, I think it means that one nation
43:36
Speaker 12: may get the swing factor and the Senate like the
43:39
Speaker 12: Greens have had in the past, and together with the
43:42
Speaker 12: Liberal National Party members of the Senate, that will drive
43:45
Speaker 12: the Australian political agenda to the right for the first time.
43:48
Speaker 12: From the Senate.
43:50
Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about Bob Catter for a moment.
43:52
Speaker 3: He sparked an absolute backlash, which is very unlike Bob
43:56
Speaker 3: Catter after calling for Australia to stop accepting migrants from
43:59
Speaker 3: them Least and North Africa, he says he doesn't care
44:03
Speaker 3: if people label him racist and he argues migration should
44:05
Speaker 3: come with stricter assimilation. His goal, he says, and I'm
44:10
Speaker 3: quoting Bob Catter, he wants to keep white people here safe. David,
44:16
Speaker 3: I often think Bob Catter is like a guy who
44:17
Speaker 3: says some important things while punching himself in the face.
44:21
Speaker 3: Should we just dismiss Bob Katter as a racist buffoon
44:24
Speaker 3: or is there a valid point beneath all the racist buffoonery.
44:29
Speaker 11: If you look at those polls, James Bob Catter is
44:33
Speaker 11: picking up on what it is being reflected in the
44:37
Speaker 11: mood across the nation, and that is immigration, that is
44:41
Speaker 11: the values of those who are coming to Australa and
44:43
Speaker 11: its crime. Now Bob is a very very direct communicator,
44:48
Speaker 11: but he is picking up and voicing the concern or
44:52
Speaker 11: he would, I mean he wouldn't. He's smart enough to
44:54
Speaker 11: not be doing that if that wasn't the view of
44:59
Speaker 11: not just Kennedy and Queensland, but probably most of Australia
45:02
Speaker 11: at the moment that now the Nats who have left
45:04
Speaker 11: today have basically said, look, we don't think the vote
45:07
Speaker 11: is really coming from us. We think the vote is
45:10
Speaker 11: being leaked from the Liberal Party. And I agree with
45:13
Speaker 11: Michael on the point about the polls. The combined Liberal
45:17
Speaker 11: National vote and One Nation is still in the mid forties,
45:22
Speaker 11: which means the most interesting poll number that we don't
45:25
Speaker 11: know is where the two PP numbers go from either
45:32
Speaker 11: the One Nation party back to the coalition, or in
45:35
Speaker 11: some cases, if One Nation ends up in seats ahead
45:39
Speaker 11: of the coalition, whether the Liberal National Party second preferences
45:44
Speaker 11: go to one nation, or they go to other Independence
45:48
Speaker 11: or even the Labor Party. So that is the most
45:50
Speaker 11: critical number that no one really understands at the moment,
45:54
Speaker 11: but will probably become the subject of conversation precipitated by
45:57
Speaker 11: what the National Party has done today.
46:00
Speaker 3: All right, I want to ask you about the New
46:02
Speaker 3: South Wales Liberals because they're looking at bringing in gender quotas, Michael,
46:06
Speaker 3: and even women only pre selections, and to demonstrate just
46:09
Speaker 3: how democratic they are, they're threatening to defund branches that
46:13
Speaker 3: don't adhere to the quota targets. So their plan is
46:16
Speaker 3: forty percent of Liberal of federal MPs must be women,
46:20
Speaker 3: forty percent must be men, and the remaining twenty percent
46:23
Speaker 3: is anyone's guests. And these days that's not just a
46:26
Speaker 3: figure of speech. Local candidate preselections would require half of
46:30
Speaker 3: all candidates to be female. Is this a trigger the
46:34
Speaker 3: New South Wales Liberals should be pulling, Michael?
46:37
Speaker 12: I think the New South Wales branch of the Liberal
46:39
Speaker 12: Party is an ongoing problem for the Liberal Party in Australia.
46:43
Speaker 12: It's an ongoing problem for Democrats who want to have
46:46
Speaker 12: a strong opposition, even if you're on the other side
46:48
Speaker 12: of politics. They seem to be a canker that is
46:51
Speaker 12: tearing out the heart of the Liberal Party nationally. And
46:55
Speaker 12: whoever becomes a new leader, because I think Paul Susan
46:58
Speaker 12: Lee is finished, has to do federal intervention into New
47:03
Speaker 12: South Wales branchs. These people can't be allowed to determine
47:06
Speaker 12: the national agenda from Sydney. Now, everyone wants women in parliament.
47:10
Speaker 12: They should have good women candidates. And some of the
47:12
Speaker 12: people who are plotting and planning this, why don't they
47:15
Speaker 12: stand for pre selection. That would be a much more
47:17
Speaker 12: positive mood than plotting. You know, ten percent gay men
47:21
Speaker 12: and five percent transgender and all of this bullshit. Stand
47:26
Speaker 12: for parliament, stand for pre selections. You've got good women
47:29
Speaker 12: people there. But boy, does Australia have a problem with
47:32
Speaker 12: the New South Wales branch of the Liberal Party.
47:35
Speaker 3: Just quickly, David, does this solve one problem by creating another.
47:39
Speaker 3: They may end up with more women in Parliament, but
47:42
Speaker 3: they may lose a whole lot of supporters who say,
47:45
Speaker 3: see exactly what we accused you of being. You just
47:48
Speaker 3: labor light.
47:49
Speaker 11: I mean, Michael sort of picked this one, you know,
47:52
Speaker 11: how to pick the national mood. New South Wales moderates. Right,
47:56
Speaker 11: we're faced with a national crisis and you're talking about
47:59
Speaker 11: quotas for or for various MPs at the moment, I
48:03
Speaker 11: mean talk about missing the mark. What we need is
48:06
Speaker 11: the best possible people standing for parliament at the moment. Now,
48:10
Speaker 11: if they're women, go for your life. The New South
48:13
Speaker 11: Wales Liberal Party for the last twenty years has been
48:17
Speaker 11: good looking for good women to stand for parliament. That
48:20
Speaker 11: is the great challenge. But you can't set quotas that
48:25
Speaker 11: determine merit. And this is sort of, I think, sort
48:30
Speaker 11: of dramatically highlighted by what's going on at the moment.
48:34
Speaker 11: Does anyone really care whether there's a minister sticking up
48:38
Speaker 11: for Australian values, whether they're female or male. I don't
48:41
Speaker 11: think so. They just want the best qualified people running
48:45
Speaker 11: for those jobs.
48:45
Speaker 3: You are absolutely right, David Michael. Thanks so much for
48:48
Speaker 3: joining me. Appreciate your time. All right, coming up next,
48:51
Speaker 3: Radical Islamists cry foul after the government's hate speech laws
48:55
Speaker 3: accidentally describe them perfectly or get into what that means
48:59
Speaker 3: in a moment, some people can't help it. They just
49:05
Speaker 3: have to make everything about themselves. Take Radical Islamist group
49:09
Speaker 3: his Butteraria, for instance. No sooner does the government passed
49:13
Speaker 3: laws enabling hate groups to be banned than the radical
49:15
Speaker 3: Islamists are threatening to challenge the laws in court. But wait,
49:19
Speaker 3: why would they assume laws banning vicious, hateful, dangerous groups
49:23
Speaker 3: would apply to them? In a statement painstakingly written to
49:26
Speaker 3: demonstrate just how moderate and reasonable they are, the Islamist
49:30
Speaker 3: group branded Australia's new laws against extremism as tyrannical. They
49:34
Speaker 3: accused the Albanzy government of acting at the behest of
49:37
Speaker 3: pro Zionist advocates in order to shield Israel's barbarity. Hang on,
49:42
Speaker 3: was that the statement from an Islamist group or was
49:44
Speaker 3: that a Sidney Morning Herald cartoon. Sometimes it's hard to tell.
49:48
Speaker 3: Leaders of the Islamist group banned in the UK, Germany, Egypt,
49:51
Speaker 3: Jordan and the UAE dusted off their best suits for
49:55
Speaker 3: a press conference in Lakember today where they blamed Israel
49:58
Speaker 3: for everything other than the of avocados and climate change.
50:02
Speaker 3: And they said of Albinizi's hate speech laws, this criminal
50:05
Speaker 3: piece of legislation has been introduced for no other purpose
50:08
Speaker 3: except to protect the criminality of a foreign entity. Well,
50:12
Speaker 3: the moment the new laws passed, His Bitteria quietly took
50:15
Speaker 3: down their website, YouTube channel and social media accounts. You see,
50:20
Speaker 3: not a hate group at all, just very very cautious,
50:23
Speaker 3: like a man who suddenly deletes his browser history when
50:26
Speaker 3: the police knock on the door, purely for privacy reasons.
50:28
Speaker 3: Of course, members of his but Teria say they'll challenge
50:32
Speaker 3: any attempt to list them as a hate group in court.
50:35
Speaker 3: You have to admire the audacity, don't you. While enthusiastically
50:39
Speaker 3: use the liberal democratic system they openly despise and wish
50:43
Speaker 3: to abolish to defend their right to campaign for a
50:46
Speaker 3: system which, if ever implemented, will demolish everyone's right to protest, speak,
50:50
Speaker 3: or assemble without official permission. It begs the question, how
50:54
Speaker 3: on earth is a mob band prescribed or facing severe
50:57
Speaker 3: operational restrictions in more than a dozen comes trees allowed
51:01
Speaker 3: to even bring a legal challenge against our federal government
51:03
Speaker 3: here in Australia. We have for far too long tolerated
51:08
Speaker 3: far too much. That's it from me. He's Paul Murray