Latest / Talking FACS / Episode 4: Setting the Table for a "Successful" Mealtime through Structure and Boundaries

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Episode 4: Setting the Table for a "Successful" Mealtime through Structure and Boundaries · Talking FACS

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Big Blue Book Club presents SNACK Club with Courtney Luecking and Anna Cason,
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featuring Raising a Happy, Healthy Eater and How to Raise a Mindful Eater. Now, here are our hosts.
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Feeding children is an adventure, and at some point or another,
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you might have had questions like, am I doing this right? Or is this normal?
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Headlines, things we see online, things we hear from family and friends,
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and even unpacking what we see in the store can have us questioning what to feed our children.
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We want children to have what they need to lead happy, healthy lives.
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And it seems like as soon as we figure something out, it changes.
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That's where we come in. My name is Dr. Courtney Luecking. I'm a registered dietitian
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and extension specialist for family and child nutrition.
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This means I have lots of training and expertise about child nutrition.
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I also have two littles of my own. This combination allows me to talk through
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practical, science-based strategies for creating a nourishing feeding environment for your family.
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And my name is Anna Cason. I'm a registered dietitian and extension associate in food and nutrition.
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I don't have kids of my own, but my interests and passion lie in supporting
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healthy food-related behaviors which begin in childhood.
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In partnership with the University of Kentucky Cooperative Extension Service,
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we present SNACK Club, where we share bite-sized bits of information for
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Supporting Nourished, Active Children in Kentucky.
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So come for the snacks and stay for the support.
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Hi, Anna. Hello, Courtney. How are you? I'm good. How are are you?
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Back again. Yes, here we are. Yeah. So today we're going to be talking about
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how or setting the table for successful, for those who can't see my fingers,
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I'm doing air quotes, successful mealtimes through structure and boundaries.
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So an opportunity to, if you listen to our previous episode,
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dig in more about the adult role in mealtimes. Yeah. So the what,
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That's the when and the where.
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So I want to ask you, what does a successful mealtime look for you?
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Well, a lot of times it just depends on what's going on. Like what's our,
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what our schedule is like.
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Maybe it's just sitting down to have dinner together, or maybe it's just,
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I mean, the time to cook a meal versus like running through somewhere, grabbing something.
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But it's, yeah, essentially just eating something. Yeah. I imagine our mealtimes
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look a little different than yours.
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Yeah. Right. I love that you said that sometimes it's just eating or at the
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end of the day it's eating because I have a pretty low bar for what successful looks like.
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But we recognize that those who are listening in or sharing this as a group,
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everyone has a different look about what that looks like.
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And I think how when I was in your shoes and it was just me and my husband and
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I would really cook these dinners and I would spend a lot of time in the kitchen
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because I enjoyed way to that. And now...
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he does most of the cooking and I'm happy if we're fed like at the end of the day.
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And it's a bonus if it's like a balanced meal and my kids enjoy various parts and pieces of that.
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So successful looks different for everybody, but there are some small,
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again, we're all about small here.
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Cause like life is hard enough. Little bites, little bites.
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Yes. Yeah. And so let's talk first about how we create structure.
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Because when we create structure, it can take off some of that mental load that
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we often carry around with us.
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If you're constantly feeling like you have to respond to what kids are whining
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about or asking about, and especially
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if it's food, you feel like you're feeding them constantly. Yeah.
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So if you are following along in the books, you may have noticed that some of
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the chapters were geared more toward infancy or the little littles,
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but they talked about starting with a feeding schedule at that young of an age.
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And a lot of times babies just innately have some sort of schedule set in.
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They'll let you know when they're hungry and then they're ready to nap and all the other stuff.
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But kind of following along with that structure, that schedule from infancy
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through adolescence, childhood, all of that helps to kind of set structure so
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that when we do have meal and snack time, it's.
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A reasonable, like there's a reason for being at the table or getting together to eat.
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Yes. I love that you said that reminded me in the Raising a Healthy,
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Happy Eater book, they talked about the importance of a feeding schedule and
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they specifically called it eating times and growing times.
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So this point of where you said, like, we have a purpose to come to the table, we're eating,
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nourishing our bodies and our brains and maybe our souls, if we're having a
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great social experience around the table, but then being away and like forgetting
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about food for a while so that we can play or learn or work depending on what our age is.
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Yeah. So at that mealtime, you're enjoying the company, you're enjoying the
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food, and you're getting that satisfaction from a balanced meal of some sorts.
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Okay. So it sounds like you're talking about the when piece.
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So let's talk about how often do we as adults need to plan for children to eat?
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So it's going to depend on some factors, like if they're...
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Activity levels or a little more, or if they're going through a growth spurt or something.
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But in general, most everyone needs about three meals a day.
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And then also plan for some snacks between those meals to act as a bridge from meal to meal.
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So maybe three meals a day, maybe two to three snacks, depending on,
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again, all these factors that play a role in how hungry they're going to be.
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Okay. So caregivers, reminder that yes, children do in fact need to eat all
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day. It seems like you're feeding them all day. So have snacks on hand. Yeah, actually.
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Yes. And having, we'll talk about kind of what to piece together to make those
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sustain from one snack to one meal.
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But yeah, every like what, two to three hours when they're younger and then
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you can space it out a little bit more, but you talked about growth spurts.
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And so again, not, yes, preschoolers, I think we always think about constantly
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feeding our toddlers because their stomachs are smaller and rapid body growth
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early on and then brain growth after that, but then older children are having that rapid growth too.
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Yeah. So not, and also just think about, okay, if they're away at school or
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a camp, something outside of the home, what time are those meals happening? Cause yeah.
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Yes. I always joke that my kids have two breakfasts, but it's because we have
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to leave so early and you know. And then they eat lunch so early.
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Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that is the when piece.
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I think that naturally ties in with the where. So let's talk about that.
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Yeah. So it, again, kind of like we touched on at the beginning,
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it's going to depend on schedules and where you may be at the moment.
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But for a successful meal time, if we're hinting at having like a family meal,
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just trying to get together as much as you can, wherever it may be,
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whether it's on a blanket at the softball field or, you know,
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around a table for mealtime. Yes. And so we talk about tables a lot,
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and that's great if you have access to that.
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At the end of the day, I think what we want to encourage people to do is find
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a place that is designated for where eating occurs.
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So not in front of the TV, not in a kid's room, because the more places that
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we eat, we start to associate eating with that.
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And so it It can encourage this mindless eating, just eating when we're not
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hungry or doing something else.
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So finding that single solitary place in the house.
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Designated. I always relate that back to, I feel like with work,
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they say don't bring your work.
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Like if you have a laptop or a portable workstation, don't bring it to your
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couch or in your bedroom because same thing, your mind will associate different
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rooms with work and just work all the time. Right.
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Right. That's a great analogy. I think we can all appreciate that,
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especially with that pandemic that we had long ago and how everything was upended
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and everything happened at home. So all over wherever we were living.
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So, okay. And so we're talking about like physically where.
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Let's talk more about that physical space that we can set because the chapter is focused on infancy.
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So again, you're like, why are we talking about high chairs? I have a 10-year-old.
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Part of that is just making sure we have the right sized seating or utensils.
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I know you and I both loved that barstool activity.
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So maybe because we're sitting on right now, my foot is on the bottom.
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So I do feel a little bit more stable. How about you?
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Same here. And I've got my leg propped up. Yeah. But why don't we,
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in case people didn't have a chance to read it, tell them about like that barstool
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analogy and what it's like. So it's talking about mostly infancy.
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If your infant is or toddler is struggling at mealtime and seem fidgety and
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just don't seem comfortable,
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check where they're like, if they have a stable bar or landing to rest their
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feet on while they're sitting in this chair that is elevated from the ground,
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because that can impact how they're sitting and what sort of movement they have
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with the rest of their extremities.
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And then that can impact feeding time. So, like adults, they suggest sitting
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at a bar stool and letting your legs dangle, not resting them on the bar or
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scooting back far enough if you're in a toddler chair so that your feet can't
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touch the floor. And then think about how….
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Less stability you have versus if you can rest your legs somewhere.
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And then putting that into all the other things that infants are learning to
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do with mealtime, like grasp something and move it to their mouth.
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So it's like a workout for them. It is. And even older are like, I am short.
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And so I find that a lot of tables and chairs I sit in, my feet are uncomfortable and I want to prop it up.
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And so it could be older children as well. If you find that kids are They're
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getting up during meals and wandering and things like that.
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Maybe like a good, great question, kind of be a detective is to see,
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do we have the right supportive feeding available for them?
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And then also those utensils, because we joke, we have two different size spoons
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and forks, for example, and the big ones are just, to me, so heavy and huge.
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I'm like, I want to use this smaller one.
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And so we joke that like, there's my spoon and then there's dad's spoon,
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mom's spoon and dad's spoon. So that's another way that we can set up that environment.
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But even something as small as cups, like is the cup too big and kids are more
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prone to spill? Can I grasp it?
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Yeah, so that kind of contributes to the where piece, that physical environment.
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But then we've hinted at it, but let's just talk about it, the social environment.
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Yeah, so mealtime is food in our culture.
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It's meant to be enjoyed. void, it's a social factor that's part of our health.
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It does contribute to our health in some way.
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So getting to enjoy that mealtime, kind of like you mentioned,
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in a set place, wherever that may be, and without distractions.
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So getting rid of TV, getting rid of phones, tablets, all the technology,
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and enjoying conversation with whoever you're having that meal with.
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Yes. And it doesn't it doesn't have to be everyone who lives in a household.
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It can be a child and an adult or a child, a younger child and an older child. So really kind of.
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Family meals is the term thrown around, but it can really be any number of people
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and it can be a picnic outside, for example.
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So it can still be that you're determining where it's happening and free of distractions.
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I'm glad that you mentioned that because I find that they can just easily creep
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in or your parents trying to get ready in the morning and it's easy to just
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throw a screen on or put a tablet and then kids seem to be occupied.
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Pied, but leads to that distracted eating and just not being as in tune or aware
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of what is going on around with them.
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I know we need to talk about the what piece, but we're already talking about
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the social and eating with people has lots of benefits.
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So maybe we could just quick talk through what some of those benefits are.
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Yeah. So for both the adults in the situation and the children or younger ones in the situation,
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there are benefits to, like I mentioned, to their physical health because they're
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paying attention to hunger cues and everything that we talked about in one of our other episodes.
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And also the social connection and being able to.
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Use their brain for eating, but also for the communication and getting to think
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back to what happened in their day and share it or think about or share something
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that they're thinking about for the future that they're excited about or something. thing.
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So you've got mental health, physical health, where's some other aspects? Yeah.
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So improve dietary quality. So when people gather, they tend to eat more nutritious
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foods and even academic performance, like it kind of tie all ties in together,
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the social, emotional, physical, whole child benefits.
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So that's great. All right. We've talked about where and when,
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like we've talked about what more at length in another episode,
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but just quickly thinking about
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some tips for what to serve during those times that we've designated.
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So what are some general guidance to help people throw together or plan,
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we should say, might be a more planning rather than reacting for nutritious or balanced meals?
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Yeah, which I think planning is like the underlying factor for all of these.
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You kind of have to plan in advance for where the meal is going to happen and
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when, and then also for the what.
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So we talked about MyPlate in one of our other episodes, which essentially is
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just provide some visual guidance for a balanced plate or a balanced meal.
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So thinking about incorporating as many food groups as you can to look like my plate for a meal.
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And then for snacks, it doesn't have to be a full balanced plate,
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but still trying to get like two to three different food groups for snacks,
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again, to bridge from meal to meal.
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So they're still getting nutritious foods and satisfaction from the foods that they are eating,
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but not necessarily feeling full from an entire meal of all the food groups
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which is that bridging I think that's a helpful guidance just like numbers and
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the visual aspect of it and I it.
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Children are younger. The word snack brings certain images to mind,
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and it's probably not what we're talking about.
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Like when I'm thinking of a snack, I'm thinking of like an apple with peanut
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butter or cheese and crackers.
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But I know our culture, a lot of times it's like chips or cookies or candies or things.
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And so we've been cautious about the language we use around like those kinds
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of foods are more treats. So we can have them, they're considered a treat.
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Or you could call a snack a mini meal if that helps change your brain.
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Like we're wanting to have a more balanced approach to what we're offering to
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feed, you know, the eating time and then the growing time. Okay.
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So we've talked about structure, boundaries, getting input from family can help
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with the what, if it feels like such a burden to try to pull it all together
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and then posting it can help put it out there about,
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Hey, this is our schedule for the week.
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This is what we're planning with some flexibility, right?
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Yeah. My husband always, I have a plan. And I'm like, but what's on Tuesday?
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Doesn't have to be taco Tuesday. We can do breakfast. I don't care.
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We just have enough ideas for the week that we're fed.
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Yeah. So planning ahead and then you can get the groceries that you need to for those meals.
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And it helps for young ones, depending on their age, if they can read the schedule.
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And then they, again, kind of going back to the trust factor with the division
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of responsibility, responsibility, they know that there is a meal planned at
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the designated place at a specific time.
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And then they have an idea of what to expect with it. I'm so glad you brought
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that up because children thrive with structure and routine.
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Yes. And that's exactly what we're talking about here is giving them those opportunities
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to thrive where they can think about food, that trust, and then they can move on.
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So let's talk about, because when we make structure and boundaries to be successful,
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our magic word for the episode, we do have to be consistent.
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So consistency is one key to success.
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And so if you try it once and it doesn't work, try, try again,
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because it's going to take that over time.
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But once we have those boundaries, sometimes that means we might have to say no. Yeah.
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Which can be maybe a little, maybe we'll feel a little hesitant about that or
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getting nervous when thinking about having to say no.
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Yes. And no doesn't always have to be no. It could be not right now.
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And so let's talk through some
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ways. I thought there were some great examples in the book. And so let's,
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I think some general guidance to saying no is acknowledging what the request is.
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So I mean, just think about how we feel if we just get flat out, get shut down.
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It doesn't feel good. But to be heard that like, oh, you really want that cookie.
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And you already had a cookie earlier today. So I'm acknowledging,
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I'm putting up that boundary.
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I didn't quite say no, but I said you already had one. So reminding them of
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what our guidelines and structure are for the day.
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So explaining, acknowledging, empathizing, and then explaining kind of why not.
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Yeah. Kind of like the sandwich method for getting someone constructive criticism
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and throwing some positive at the beginning and then explain it in the middle.
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And then maybe they can have the cookie later or tomorrow that can be their treat.
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Exactly. So I think if we, it was in the book with Raising a Happy,
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Healthy Eater, Closer Look look at saying no.
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Their guidance was compassionately. We talked about that.
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So, oh, that does look really good. Or we know that tastes good. Or saying no mindfully.
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That's a way to, again, communicate what is the food culture in your family.
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Like we don't buy those kinds of foods or we incorporate those on the weekend.
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And these are just guidance. We'll talk about creating what guidance works for
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a family on a future episode.
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But being proactively. So knowing when you're like the checkout.
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Bless it. For a while there, they had some healthier options,
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but they are right there at child level.
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They do that for a reason. Yeah. And it works. I'm like self-checkouts now.
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I'm afraid like my daughter's shaking the gum and I'm like, don't like, please put that back.
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It's going to somehow land in the bag and we're going to, you know,
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think we shoplifted or something, but yes. So it is problematic.
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So knowing that's an issue, is there anything we can do to thwart it in advance?
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Kind of set the expectations, communications, being consistent.
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So communicate. We can't, I know you and I have talked about this before,
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like we want people to read our minds sometimes. And.
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It just, it doesn't happen. It doesn't. So we need to be clear if this is going to change.
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Like if it's going to look different for us to create that structure for our
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family, communicating that.
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So here's the plan, getting input as age appropriate, and then holding it to it.
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Yeah. And then joyfully. So we can have these treats or things as we want to
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include them and just letting children know when they can expect that or something similar.
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So some really helpful guidance. And I think we have, I guess,
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one more point before I say that, but patiently.
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Yes. Because, yes, there will be some pushback, most definitely at first or even from time to time.
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But with that consistency, children will know to expect it and it can become
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less of an issue over time.
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They can understand, nope, you mean it when we're saying no to that right now. Yeah.
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And with all of this together, moving into setting more structures and boundaries
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that can be scary for the kid at first, if it's something different.
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So again, just being open, having the conversation and saying,
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this is how we're doing things.
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We're trying something new, how it's going to be from now on,
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and then consistently sticking to whatever it is over time. Yes. And let's not...
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Pretend it won't take more work on an adult's part of like planning and navigating
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the emotional pushback and things like that.
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But again, with input and developing our own sense of routine,
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it can become a little bit more routinized for ourself.
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And it's like, okay, well, for me on Sundays, it works to map out the week and see what we need.
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So find what works for you in terms of that brain space and who puts their input
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in and who does what and delegating tasks and just laying it all out there.
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And kind of like we've touched on in other episodes, giving yourself grace to
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go through this whole process.
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Absolutely. So maybe to recap the things that we've talked about today.
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So how can we create a successful mealtime, set the table for a successful mealtime?
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And Anna, what would you say the keys of that are? planning in advance,
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and then really taking on the caregiver, the adult responsibilities for the
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what, the where, and the when.
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So having that structure set up for the location, for the environment that you're
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in, when it's going to happen, and then also what is being provided. Yeah, absolutely.
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And then recognizing that sometimes we need to say no.
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So yeah, we hope that But you all want to maybe give it a go.
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It's a work in progress, right? Because our schedules change and children grow
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and then they have different activities.
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And so these aren't to say these are hard and fast rules when we're talking
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about structure or boundaries, but they are guidelines that can continue to
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keep people kind of weaving through
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the journey of feeding and nourishing children. Yes, the adventure.
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Yeah. So if people are interested in more resources, check our show notes.
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We'll have some links there. and then as always we
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want to hear from you so if you have questions or
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topics you're talking about that you'd like us to talk about you
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can reach us at snack club s-n-a-c-k-c-l-u-b at uky.edu yes well thanks for
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joining yes and we hope you'll come back soon.
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Thanks for joining us for another episode of SNACK Club. Resources related to the
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topics discussed in this episode can be found on our website linked in the show notes.
22:37
can provide links to local resources.
22:40
If you have other topics you would like to hear about, send us a note at snackclub@uky.edu.
22:53
And as a reminder, the digestible bits of information we share are like navigation
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signs for your feeding journey, but you may need to contact a healthcare provider
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for more personal advice.
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And last but not least, special thanks to our team behind the scenes.
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Mindy McCulley for bringing this audio and video file to life with her technology
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skills and to the people through her marketing magic.
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And to Kelli Thompson for her creative ability to turn one conversation into
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our SNACK Club symbol. We hope to see you again soon.