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Episode Two Hundred Seven: Dead Cats Don't Bounce Twice · The Death Of Journalism

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to episode number two hundred and seven of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Death of Journalism podcast. My name is John Zigler. I'm
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: your host. On today's show. We are joined by our
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: good friend Steve Cortes to talk about his efforts during
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: the presidential campaign as the head of a Trump super pack.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Plus the post election news media is in serious crisis,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and I will tell my hopefully rather compelling story about
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: former Notre Dame football coach Jerry Faust, who passed away
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: earlier this week.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: One of our most frequent guests.
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  Speaker 1: In fact, I believe our most frequent guests on the
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  Speaker 1: Death of Journalism podcast is the god the name of
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  Speaker 1: Steve Cortes, who I've never met, but I.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Feel pretty close to. We've become very good friends.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: It began when he was a listener to our With
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the Benefit of Hindsight podcast. He and I are both
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Georgetown graduates, both conservatives. He's a former Trump advisor turned
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: DeSantis advisor, now in the presidential campaign with someone who
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: was running essentially what I refer to as a Trump
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: super pack, although it's technically not called that, but Steve
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: has done extensive work during this presidential campaign. We've checked
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: in with him on numerous occasions, and I wanted to
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: do so again now after the presidential election is over,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: because there's a ton of stuff to talk about and
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: there's no one better to talk about it.
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  Speaker 2: With than Steve Cortes.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Steve Cortes, Welcome back to the Death of Journalism podcast.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Hey John, thank you for having me. You know, as
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: I've told you before, I am an absolutely avid listener.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I listened to every minute of every episode, so it's
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: an honor to be here. And I think I'm keeping
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: my record as your most frequent guests. I hope I
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: can keep that record going forward.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I think you have a lockdown on that record at
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: this point, and I'm very eager to talk to you.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Obviously in the wake of the election, before we get
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: to the results, what they mean, where we're going, I
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: want to go back a little bit just to give
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: people a little bit of context and what your role
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: in all of this was. Of course, you had been
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: a Trump advisor, then you went to work for essentially
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: the De Santas campaign and then a Trump super pack
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: during the general election.
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  Speaker 2: What was the.
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  Speaker 1: Role that you had and your super pac had during
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  Speaker 1: the general election campaign.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, so my advocacy organization my C four. We worked
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: as an outside group what people in the political world
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  Speaker 3: refer to it as I ees, you know, independent expenditure groups.
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: So we're not related to the campaign. As a matter
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  Speaker 3: of fact, we cannot coordinate with the campaign, but we
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: are outside groups who are working very diligently in many
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: ways running a parallel campaign on behalf of Donald Trump.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: So in terms of what did we do in my case,
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  Speaker 3: we did a lot of polling, We did a lot
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: of media work. I created a lot of documentaries, I
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: created ads. I did a lot of earned media, meaning
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  Speaker 3: interviews like this, you know, podcast, radio, TV. So I
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: for a network of independent groups that we're advocating on
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: behalf of President Trump. I ran media operations and polling
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: for those groups. So, in many ways, the way folks
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: can think of it, if they're not intimately involved with
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: the way the political world works, just think of us
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: as a parallel outside campaign. And by the way, the
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  Speaker 3: Democrats do all of this as well. There's nothing uniquely
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Republican about this. Both sides do this. And the thing
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: about the outside world is, you know, we have while
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: we can't coordinate with the candidate or with the campaign,
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: we have a lot more flexibility, and that's one reason
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  Speaker 3: why a lot of big donors, a lot of mega donors,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: prefer to funnel more of their money to outside groups
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  Speaker 3: rather than the campaigns themselves.
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  Speaker 1: And your group in particular, seem to have a great
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  Speaker 1: deal of resources.
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  Speaker 2: To put into especially the Swing states. Is that a
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  Speaker 2: fair assessment? Correct?
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  Speaker 3: We focused entirely on the Swing States, correct, I mean
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  Speaker 3: we honestly ignored, you know, places like Alabama and California.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, we just frankly didn't care about those states
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  Speaker 3: during this race. We focused entirely on the Seven States,
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  Speaker 3: and as time went on, by the end, we were
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: all most entirely focused on Pennsylvania. So we practically became
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  Speaker 3: a Pennsylvania operation solely in the closing weeks of the campaign.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, and but just to be clear, you had enough
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  Speaker 1: resources to make an impact. And this was not just
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  Speaker 1: you know, some sort of trivial side show. I mean
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  Speaker 1: there was there was a lot of ammunition behind this effort.
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  Speaker 3: No, absolutely, where we were backed by, you know, some
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  Speaker 3: of the most generous players in American politics, some of
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: the biggest business folks you know in America. And because
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: of that, yes, thankfully we had the firepower and the staff,
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: and of course the hustle. You know, you still have
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: to work hard. But we we did have the political
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: means to make a difference. I think we absolutely did
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: make a difference. And I think where we made the
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: biggest difference, by the way, and we could sort of
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: get into this if you'd like to, but is in
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: convincing Trump voters to vote early. And that was a
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: herculean task. But my group and related groups took on
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: that task really really early. We saw the necessity of that,
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  Speaker 3: and I think we were largely, very very successful, and
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  Speaker 3: I believe it's one of the reasons, not the only reason,
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  Speaker 3: but one of the reasons that Trump got the results
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  Speaker 3: he did well.
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  Speaker 1: Before we get into that for the purposes of full disclosure,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: and I should have probably mentioned this earlier, but there
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: was never a really good time to do it, and
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I never really knew exactly what to say. But since
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: you're now on the podcast, I would at least like
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: the listeners to know that you asked me to take
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: on a semi formal role.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: I guess it is the best way to describe, but.
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  Speaker 1: A semi formal role in what you were doing, and
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: so I accepted that, and so we did work together
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: on certain elements of what you were doing. Why don't
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: you describe for the listeners your perception of what my
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: meager role was and all of this.
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  Speaker 3: No, it it was a significant role to me at least,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I mean, not big in the scheme of
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: everything we were doing, but it was very important to me.
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  Speaker 3: So and this might shock some of the listeners. It
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: certainly would shock the people who accuse you of having
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Trump arrangement syndrome, because you really do not. You know,
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: while you're an opponent of Trump, absolutely right, and you
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: and I obviously don't agree on a lot of those issues. However,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I have enormous respect for you as somebody who opposed
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: Trump but didn't lose your conservative principles, unlike you know,
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: all those Charlatans that say the Lincoln Project and that
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: sort of thing. Right, people who because they opposed Trump
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: suddenly became leftists, right, I mean, that's absurd. In any case,
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  Speaker 3: you were very valuable to me as a consultant to
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: my C four, to my advocacy group in two ways.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: One was polling. You had more experience with polling than
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: I did, so I took over this polling operation. I've
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: always been a very intense consumer of polls, but I
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: had never run one, and frankly, I had never thought
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: about their construction all that much. I mean, in other words,
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  Speaker 3: I just took the results and analyzed the results and
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: didn't think all that much about Okay, but what's on
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: the back end of this? Like I was it constructed?
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  Speaker 3: So I was forced to do that and given a
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: big task of running a serious polling operation with a
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: lot of budget. We used three different pollsters in total.
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  Speaker 3: I should know the exact number. I don't, but I
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: think I did something like thirty five forty polls in totals.
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  Speaker 3: I'm in serious operation. And it was immediately apparent to
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  Speaker 3: me from both my conversations with you offline but also
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: from frankly just this show from your podcast that you're
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: an expert in the area of polling, and because of that,
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: you helped me a lot in terms of formulating the
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: questions analyzing the results that we got back. You've got
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: a great analytical mind there and you were super helpful.
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  Speaker 3: So that was the first area, and again that might
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  Speaker 3: shock people that John Ziggler was helping a Trump guy
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: at least with the Polland but I think also you
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: weren't helping me so much because you wanted to help Trump.
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  Speaker 3: You were helping me because you wanted to know what's
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: going on and get the best read. And we were
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: trying to be really rigorous. I mean, you know this,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: I was trying to be really rigorous with my polland
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  Speaker 3: I was not putting my thumb on the scale, Like
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: we wanted to know where things are, and we were
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: doing the best job we could to try to find
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: out objectively, using you know, rigorous statistical methods, where things are.
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  Speaker 3: And you were really helpful that. And then the second
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: thing you did was you helped me craft anti Kamala
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  Speaker 3: Harris ads And I think I don't want to speak
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: for you, but I think you were happy to do
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: that because those ads didn't even mention Donald Trump. We
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: just assailed Harris properly, you know, objectively, based on facts,
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: you know, on evidence, not character smears, not that sort
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: of thing, but just pointing out the various flaws of
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: both her record as well as the process by which
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: she became the nominee. And you helped me craft the
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: script for ads. And by the way, those ads were
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: really really successful. We ran them mostly online, not too
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: much television, but mostly on Facebook primarily, and we found
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  Speaker 3: a lot of success. What I mean by success is
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: meaning like a high high click rate, a high share rate,
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  Speaker 3: people watching the entire ad, you know, not just five seconds,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: but all thirty seconds. And so yeah, I'm happy too,
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: as long as as long as you're happy with a John.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: I'm happy at the vaults of the world that you
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: helped me with all of that. And it was I think,
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: you know, really impactful.
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  Speaker 1: Well great, and I was glad to do it, and
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I was glad that Harris lost, and I'm hopeful about
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: what it means that Trump won. We're going to get
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: into that in just a little bit, but before I
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: like to go in a linear fashion, as you know.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: So since you mentioned pulling in my small role in
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: what you were doing, I have to say part of
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: why I thought that Harris was going to hold on
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  Speaker 1: to the blue Wall. I mean, I got all the
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  Speaker 1: other states correct, but I got the blue Wall incorrect
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: by one or two points in each state. Part of
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: why I got the blue Wall wrong was because I
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  Speaker 1: was very privy to your polling, right.
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  Speaker 2: And you did.
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  Speaker 1: You did not have one pole, not one during the
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  Speaker 1: entire cycle where Trump was winning any of the blue
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  Speaker 1: Wall states. So how do you how do you explain
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: that in you know, in light of what we now
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: know actually transpired.
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  Speaker 3: Right, Well, I'll say this, you know, sort of in
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  Speaker 3: defense of my polsters, not that I'm reflectively defending them,
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: as I'm not, but in defense of my posters and
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: defensive you know, of us, frankly, and in terms of
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: constructing the polls, you know, and buck stops with me.
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  Speaker 3: Of course I don't want to ran them.
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  Speaker 1: Uh.
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  Speaker 3: You know, we were tied every time, Okay, So I
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: mean tons and tons of ties. So it's not like
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  Speaker 3: I show Trump down. But yes, to your point, we
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: did not show him up in the in the blue
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  Speaker 3: Wall states, in the northern three swing states at any point.
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  Speaker 3: I think maybe we got one Wisconsin one where he
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: was plus one, but certainly not nothing consistent. Nothing. Uh,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: you know that was very reassuring about those states. And
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: my honest answer to you, John is I don't know.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I'd like to hear your answer on this. You know,
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: why once again, were polsters mostly some of the right
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: wing polsters did well, But why were polsters mostly unable
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: to find this quiet Trump voter or this shy Trump voter.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't know. But I will also say
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: again I was off, and I take, you know, unfortunate
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: acceptance of that. I'm not proud of that that I
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: was off in those states. I was absolutely right in
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: all the Sun Belt states. I mean, just as you
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: call those correct. My polsters had us with significant, significant
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: leads in all those states. So I was very very
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: right there. But we came close. And again I never
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: had Trump down and at least into the close right,
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: he was always tied. But why did we not see
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: that he was going to be up? And by the
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: way too, And I know you put this on your
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: last podcast. Trump did win Wisconsin, Michigan now that we're
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: getting you know, sort of revised totals by very very
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: thin margins. So I mean we weren't off by much. Okay, No,
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: we were wrong and I was off. I will concede too.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: I was off by a decent margin in Pennsylvania and
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  Speaker 3: that certainly bothers me. And to be honest, I don't
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: know the answer for sure. I mean, what what do
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: you think, like why, for example, you know I used
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: three dirm pulsars. Why was I not capturing Pennsylvania correctly.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Well, I actually think that part of the problem is
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: that our standards are off. We somehow being off by
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: a point or two is a polling miss. Polling was
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: never intended to be that exact. That's why there's a
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: margin of error of two point five to three percent.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So to me, there was not a massive polling error.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: It was consistent, and it was in one direction, and
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: but it was tiny. I mean, right now, it looks
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: like Trump will win Pennsylvania by two points, They'll win
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Michigan by barely over a point, and he'll when Michigan
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: wisconstant by.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Less than a point. So that's not that far off
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: from what you had.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: As I was trying to make my final guess, it
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: didn't wasn't the deciding factor, but it was a factor.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, if Trump was.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Going to win these states, wouldn't Steve's polster have one
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: poll showing Trump winning?
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: And so I think that's part of it.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: But you know, something else occurred to me, Steve and
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you and I went through this in fact that I
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, but we actually had a minor
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: discussion about how to phrase this particular question. But are
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: you aware that the polymarket guys who won I think
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: it was forty eight million dollars betting on Trump. They
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: claimed that the reason why they were so confident that
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Trump was going to win is that they were looking
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: at a different polling measurement, and that polling measurement was
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: one that you and your pollster used and I actually adjusted.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: I don't again, I don't remember this or not, but
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the question was not who are you going to vote for?
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: But who do you think.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Your neighbors or the rest of your state is going
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: to vote for?
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  Speaker 1: Right, And that that number was very much more pro
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Trump than the who are you going to vote for?
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Numbers?
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: And that their belief and who knows, maybe they got lucky,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: but they you know, they made voteload of money on it,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and there's some logic to it.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Because of the nature of Trump.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: It's actually more accurate to ask people who they think
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: their locality is going to vote for than who they're
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: going to vote for.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: What do you make of that?
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: No, listen, so thank you for bringing this issue up,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: because I find it fascinating. So my polster actually against
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: my wishes, Okay, So I'm going to concede like I
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: was wrong here. My polster wanted to include that I
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: led him for several polls that we did. You might
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: remember this, and I thought it wasn't a very worthwhile
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: question for this reason. I'm like, I think there was
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: a stigma of supporting Trump in twenty sixteen. There was
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: absolutely a stigma in twenty twenty. By twenty twenty four,
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: I didn't believe. I made the qualitative judgment that there's
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: just not that much of a stigma anymore. I mean,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: this is a man who has dominated American politics for
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: ten years, pratt to me now, and I thought it
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: was kind of an irrelevant question. However, you know, we
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: did leave it in the polls for several battleground state
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: poles and it consistently came out quite pro Trump. I
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: then later did remove it, and I think you agree
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: with me on that on removing it, because folks need
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: to know when you do polls, the number of questions
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: really really matters for a couple of reason. Number one
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: is cost, of course, right, and the longer the poll is,
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: you know, it gets way way more expensive. But the
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: other issue is it can actually skew results because there
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: are only certain people who will sit for a long
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: poll and other people who won't write. So there's a
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: there's a couple of factors there. So I'm always trying
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: to be very judicious about which questions I use. So
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: it's a big deal, honestly to insert or remove a question.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And we removed that and in the end it probably
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: was a valuable read. So again though we did get
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: that read early on, not the very end. And when
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: I say early, by the way, I mean like still
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: summertime when we were pulling that issue. But yeah, was
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: it you know, was it determinative? I don't know. And
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: you know, going forward to by the way, I will
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: tell you they're speaking of betting. And I'm gonna pat
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: myself on the back for this. When that Iowa poll
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: came out, that ridiculous Sealser poll from the Des Moines Register,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: which I immediately debunked. I did so very publicly, wrote
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: articles about it, immediately posted a lot on social media
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: why that poll was one hundred percent wrong. But the
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: betting markets, you know, Trump got slammed on the betting
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: markets the next day. And that was the only financial
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: bet that I put down the entire race. I actually
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: did it on my interactive broker's account, not on a
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: betting website, but my regular broker's account. They had that
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: at Interactive Brokers, and Trump got knocked all the way.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: He was about seventy cents, so you had to bet
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: seventy cents to win a dollar, so he was a
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: prohibitive favorite. Before the Iowa poll came out. He went
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: all the way down to fifty, meaning it's a coin flip, right,
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: so it's even money, So you bet fifty cents to
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: make fifty cents. And I bought him at fifty one
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: the next day, and I did it pretty significantly. I
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: mean at least for me, Like I mean, I bet
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: real money. I mean it would have hurt to have lost.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: I didn't lose. By the way, my eighteen year old
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: son joined in on that bet for one hundred bucks,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: which was a lot of money for him. But he
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: was sitting there while I was talking about he goes, Dad,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I want him, said all right, I'll get sell you.
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: I'll give you utterred bucks. But because all of his friends,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: he got the vote for the first time and all
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: of his friends, which was certainly consistent with young men,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: especially in the South where we live, young men were
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: so fired up for Trump that he was you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: completely sure Trump was gonna win analytical perspective, but just
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: his crowd.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: You know, that's a cool story.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: What do you have a theory on what happened with
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Anseltzer there? Because I mean, she had such a great
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: reputation before this and that was so far off.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, as you know, I'm an anti.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Conspiracy person ardently, but I'm open to almost anything as
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: far as what was really going on there.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Do you have a theory?
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: It's so far off, something corrupt had to be going on.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, I just there's no other explanation that makes sense.
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, she had to either just be so blinded
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: by her ideology or she had to be paid. I mean,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: something happened that's not a miss that is explainable in
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: any way from somebody with her track record. I'm sorry,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the story is, so I'm not
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I'm not accusing her specifically, but I guess I'm broadly
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: accusing her, Like something happened there. You can and now
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: that I've done a lot of polling, okay, you cannot
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: miss by sixteen percent and say that something untoward didn't
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: happen right from from somebody who's you know, the supposing
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: the best in the business with a track record she had,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: like why would she torch her track record and.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Her This is important to point out she was pulling
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: her home state.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean this is this is she lifts there. Sure,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: the Des Moines Register is there. This is the state
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that she's famous for polling. This is not like somebody
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: who is polling six or seven different states at the
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: same time.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: So there's really no.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Excuse to be that far off. And I agree with
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: you that there has to be some I don't know what.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I don't want to say necessarily corrupt without evidence, but
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: there has to be some explanation that is far outside
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: the norm at least, you know, I have not come
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: up with one, and I've not heard a good one
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: as if yet. I think her only explanation was that
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: her poll actually caused people to who were Republicans to
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: turn out in larger numbers, which is completely ridiculous, totally absurd.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: Listen, John, to the point of your podcast, like, if
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: the Des Moin Register were a serious media organization, right,
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: they would do a really serious internal investigation of her
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: right and figure this out. But they won't, right, I mean,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: it'll just be glossed over.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Like oh well, actually, hilariously, Steve, I don't. I guess
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: you didn't hear this. They are doing an investigation de
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Moin Register, not into why the poll was wrong, but
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: why the results of the poll got leaked.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: That's their help, that's right.
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I forgot. Yeah, okay, just worrying about why
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: did your your prominent pollster screw up this badly? Yeah? Wow?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, So let's talk about what actually happened and why
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Trump won. I know the look, I mean, I hate
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: the fact that everybody has their pet reason for why
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: this happened, why Harris lost, or why Trump won.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: But I'll give you the opportunity.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: My sense is that you're gonna probably talk about the
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Latino vote, at least as far as reasons that are
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: underrated that suddenly took me by surprise, the fact that
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: Trump won Latino men and obviously did much better among
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: African American men than Republicans have ever done before. But
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: what is your takeaway on maybe the most underrated or
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: the surprise reason for why Harris lost and Trump won.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so listen, I think that to me, the three
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: most important reasons were the Latino vote, men overall, including
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: of course Latino men, but men overall, and then groceries.
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: And you know, on the Latino side, what we did
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: with Hispanics this time was just absolutely historic and game changing.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: And we've been gained among Hispanics, you know, for quite
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: a while, really for a decade, pretty consistently, but this
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: really put it over the top on a national level.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Winning Hispanic men is an absolute game changer. Coming relatively
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: close among Hispanic women, the total number probably coming in
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: somewhere around forty five forty six percent at least based
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: on most exit poll I don't love exit polling, by
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: the way, but I think in this case, from what
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: I read of the demographics of the actual vote totals,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: that's probably about where it'll come in. By the way,
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: speaking of that Hispanic about, I mean places like the Bronx,
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: winning a third of the vote in the Bronx, I
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: mean in the most diverse county literally in America, a
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: place where almost nobody is white in the Bronx. These
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: kinds of gains are amazing, and the Democrats have to
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: be absolutely pulling their hair out, so I think that's
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: one reason. The other thing is is men. And thankfully,
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: through my polling, through some focus groups, and through some intuition,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: you know, we determined early on in this race that
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: men were really ticked off, that they are tired of
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: having their masculinity assailed and demonized. They're tired of being
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: told that they should be ashamed of their maleness, particularly
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: young men and boys. And the extreme feminist agenda, which
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: is pushed aggressively by the Democrat Party and has been
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: for decades, I has finally reached, I think a breaking
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: point where the men of this country politically and culturally revolted.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: And I hope this is the beginning of a much
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: bigger change that's bigger than politics, because we need to
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: reassert respect for authentic masculinity and authentic femininity in this country.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: And I think this election was really part of that.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: And that was that existed before Kammaa became the nominee,
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: but it was accentuated once she became the nominee because
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: the fact that she was female was constantly promoted by
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: her campaign and by her acolytes in the corporate media
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: as a reason that she should be elected. And then
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: of course we had to Obama's coming in and lecturing
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: men you know about and trying to shame them into
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: the reasons they should vote for Kamala Harris. I think
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: it had exactly the opposite effect. And then the last
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: thing is groceries, which obviously is just an issue for everybody,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: but also because of polling. This is one reason to
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: do polling, right, I presumed. And I'm an economics guy
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: like so I focus on inflation a lot. I was
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: a bond trader for twenty five years, so I mean
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I lived and breathed interest rates and inflation. To me,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: the bigger aspect, my guess was the bigger aspect of
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: inflation was going to be housing, the unaffordable housing market
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: and rent prices. It's a much bigger part of most
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: people's budgets, so logically that should get them the most angry. However,
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: and I only found this out through good polling, what
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: got them the most angry by far, by far was groceries.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: And I think the reason though, once I found that
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: out and looked into it more, is the frequency bias,
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: you know, meaning in other words, you pay your rent
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: or your mortgage once a month, you might be angry,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: you know, for an hour or two or that day,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: but then it goes away. You buy food all the time,
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: and the average woman, by the way, in America, I
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: found out the average woman buys food ten times a month.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: So you are getting anxious and angry all the time,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: and that frequency really really bothered people, and so we
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: focused a ton there. I did a documentary solely on
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: grocery prices and what it's meant to regular Americans and
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: why it's Biden and Kamala Harris's fault and they should
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: be blamed for this. And so I would say latinos
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: men and grocery prices, those were the three most compelling
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: reasons why Trump won and the three most sort of
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: fertile areas where we were able to really successfully attack
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: both Biden when he was a nominee and then Kamala
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: Harris once she was anointed.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: There's a debate, as you know, going on, especially in
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Trump world and on Twitter, about what we can learn
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: about the twenty twenty election from the twenty twenty four results.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: As you know, being an anti conspiracy person, I don't
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: believe that any of this proves that there was inherent
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: direct corruption in the actual vote counting in twenty twenty.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I do, however, have said many many times that I
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: don't think the twenty twenty election was completely legitimate because
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the COVID issue was used as a weapon, both politically
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: as well as changing the rules of how we voted
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. Where do you stand on this issue
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: that is very, very very popular among Trump fans that aha,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: we've proven that twenty twenty actually was stolen from Donald Trump.
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now listen, I'm with you. I do not believe
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: that these results prove anything really about twenty twenty, and
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: I would disagree with a lot of my ideological friends
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: on the MAGA write. I would also say, by the way,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: I think this is important for us to talk about it, and
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you asked the question. But as far as
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: people like me who do messaging you know, for a living,
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: who are media people, I do not believe it behooves
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: us at all to relitigate twenty twenty. I just think
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: it makes us look like sore losers instead lifts claim
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: the mantle of winners in twenty twenty four. So I
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: don't think it's politically expedient for us to promote this issue.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: Having said that, I do think it's important. There's just
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: so much propaganda from the corporate media that if we
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: have any doubts about twenty twenty, you know that were
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: somehow a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy loon. Here's the reality
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: I believe of why twenty twenty was stolen. Okay, and
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I believe it was stolen, and I'm willing to say
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: that in a microphone. I'm willing to say it to anybody.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: It's not because machines were changed or there was some
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: server on Mars. Okay, It's not because of that. It's
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: because of equal protection violations. Right, It's because the fourteenth
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: Amendment demands that voters be treated equally. They were not
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: treated equally. In other words, in those days, Trump voters
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: were still overwhelmingly game day in person voters. Because of
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: that fact, they were subjected to significant scrutiny. Right, you
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: had to present yourself in most places, you had to
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: present identification. It is very clear who you are. There's
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: a lot of filters about who you are. In contrast,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: in many of these states with the excuse of COVID
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: and with a lot of the money from Zuckerberg, which
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: was totally illegal. Four hundred million dollars injected into the
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: public election apparatuses of the country. Millions and millions of
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: people were able to vote with essentially zero scrutiny, no
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: filters to determine who they were, other than just their
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: name and an envelope that arrived. That is an equal
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: protection violation. I'm sorry, And and those votes are not
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: the same. We did not treat the voters equally, and
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: if the courts had the guts to stand up, I
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: believe they would have invalidated those elections. In other words,
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: I think the election should have been redone. Now, I
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: know that was never going to happen. I'm not saying
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: that was practically possible, but that is what should have happened,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: based on the Constitution and based just on ethics, quite frankly,
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: and that wasn't done. For that reason, I believe the
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: election was stolen.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I understand what you're saying, and I the factual
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: element of it, I don't have any issues with. But
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: regarding the fourteenth Amendment, I'm curious as to what your
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: response to this would be. The fourteenth Amendment, which to
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: me is the biggest reason why we can't get rid.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Of the electoral college, right, because.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: If we have every state deciding what the rules are,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: and then we have only a national popular vote, that's
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: a massive problem because you know, California can let anybody
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: vote that they want, and then you have other states
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: that are very restrictive and who can vote and what
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: the rules are. That's a violation of the fourteenth Amendment
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: because everyone's voting for the same thing. But to me, Steve,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: I would disagree legally that that's a fourteenth Amendment issue because.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: That's state by state.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: You only get a fourteenth Amendment violation if your vote
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: is not being treated the same as everyone else in
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: your state. You see what I'm saying That they so
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: because because we don't have a national election for president,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: we have fifty state election and so the fourteen Amendment
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: violation can only be within the state itself, I.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Understand I'm saying. For example, let's get specific, the state
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: of Pennsylvania had a near zero rejection rate on mailed
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: in or dropbox ballots. I mean near zero, right, So
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: in other words, they were right accepted. Yet there was
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: no scrutiny of who it was. There was no proof
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: of identification, there was no proof of citizenship. There was
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: no there was no validation, okay versus overwhelmingly Trump voters
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: who went in person to a polling place in Pennsylvania
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: absolutely were validated. And we're vetted right. But the Trump voted,
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: But Steve's violation.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: But Steve, those Trump voters had the option to vote
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: by mail.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: I understand that. I understand that.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: So therefore, legally, I'm just talking to league.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: You are making a very good argument that in practical
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: terms it was not fair.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: I get that, But I'm just saying, legally.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I don't think that that has That's not an argument
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: that would win in the Supreme Court, is what I'm
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: trying to say.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe not, but way, speaking of the courts of twos,
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you made this point too, And this is
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: one of the few I don't disagree with you on Munch.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: But you've mentioned this before about you know, Trump losing
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: in court so much. You know, let's be honest about that.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: In almost every case it was dismissed right because they
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: said he didn't have standing. So the supposed sixty cases,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: how many were truly litigated. There's only a few, and
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: the only one that was in my view fairly, factually
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: completely litigated was the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Now, where Trump
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: did lose. Okay, I mean, I'm conceding that Trump lost,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: but it was four to three. It was as tight
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: as could be. And if you read the dissenting opinion
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: by the Chief Justice of Wisconsin, so you not some
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: legal nobody, right, not some minor judge, the Chief Justice
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: of Wisconsin. He made almost exactly the arguments that I
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: am making, and he ruled that the entire election should
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: be invalidated in Wisconsin. Now, again that didn't prevail. Okay,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Trump didn't win, but it was it was dang close.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: And I guess I would also say, you know, what
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: I'm saying is is certainly not crazy, and it's certainly
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: not outside of the realm of jurisprudence. But again, I
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: also believe firmly as a campaign, as a as a
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: media guy, this is not where we want to live.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: The discussion you and I just had, like, right, you know, and.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: I do want to move on, but let me just
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: and because we could talk about this forever. But you know,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: my counter to that would be in a world where
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Trump really was you know, had the election stolen in
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty. We don't have what happened with Fox News
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: Channel and Dominion. We don't have what happened with Newsmax
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: and Dominion. We don't have Rudy Giuliani, what happened with him.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: We don't have Densh Desuza, uh, you know, and his
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: documentary being debunked. I mean, there's there's a whole series
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: of problems with the theory.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, let's yeah, but particularly let me just say particularly
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: about Salem, because I think Salem Radio regard the DNSH
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: documentary like they would have fought right rather than settled
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: if they thought they had that rights.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and so those things would not have turned
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: out the way they did if the argument was strong
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: that there was actual, true votes stealing in the twenty
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: twenty election.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: But let's let's move on.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you, Steve, about the
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: actual Trump victory and how it impacted you personally, because
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: you're a very interesting character in this. I think you're
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: you're basically unique. I don't know of anybody else that's
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: in your situation. Correct me if I'm wrong. But you know,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: obviously you were someone who was rather close to Donald Trump.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: You know, an advisor to him on some very important things.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: You decided before the twenty twenty four election that you
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: were going to support Ron DeSantis. You and I had
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: extensive conversations about this. I urged you, including after the
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: deal was already done, to not do this, because I
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: feared basically the exact scenario as it transpired, which was
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: that DeSantis would lose and that Trump could actually end
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: up back in the White House. And I would rather
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: have you still on team Trump and close to him
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: and have someone that could theoretically tell him.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: No from time to time.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: But you know, here and now here you are, i mean,
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: worked on Trump's behalf, but from the outside, apparently in
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Trump's personal doghouse.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: And so this has got to be very.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Personally conflicting for you to have worked as hard as
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: you did and see, you know, Trump win, be part
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: of why Trump won, especially in Pennsylvania, and then have
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to look at it from the outside, you know, as
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: everyone's deciding what job they're going to have and what
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the administration is going to look like. What's that been
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: like for you personally?
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Steve? Yeah, No, listen, I'll admit it's it's tough at times.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: You know it is. I won't pretend it's not. And
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: you know it can emotionally be a little bit challenging.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: But uh, everything I did, I did for principle what
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: I thought was right at the time. And and everything
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: I've done for Trump, for example, because I obviously have
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: no idea if there's going to be any any sort
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: of recognition or you know, payback or even relationship with
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Trump and his White House. I did for the country
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: and and I'm not trying to be make myself into
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: some saint, okay, but this is what I what I
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: do for a living is campaigning and messaging and media. Uh,
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: and I want to I want to use it to
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: save this country. And I thought the country was an
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: unbelievable peril. The the prospect of a Kamala Harris presidency
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: was just anathema to me, and I think could have
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: ruined this country in ways that would be perhaps irreversible,
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: particularly comes to orders, uh, issues like the border and
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: potential amnesty of you know, masses of illegal alien So
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: I was happy and proud to work super hard with
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: wonderful people. But like to give you an example of
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: this though, this sort of contrast or contradiction sort of
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: within myself in my head. So many people have asked me.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: You're like, oh, so you're going to the inauguration. I
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: was like, well, I don't know that I'm invited in
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: to the inauguration, right And you know, last time, not
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: only was I invited, I was invited at a very
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: senior level, you know what I mean, with the greatest
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: seats and all the you know, the best sort of
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: perks of being part of Trump's senior team. And believe me,
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: you know, it bothers me a lot, and I lament
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: that as of right now, I don't have a relationship,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: a personal relationship with Donald Trump at all. I've not
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: spoken to him since I went with DeSantis, even though
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: I tried. I've asked for meetings with him and been denied.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: And it will bother me that I don't have the
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: ability to get him on the phone quickly, which I
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: did have throughout the first term. And that was a
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: huge privilege, frankly, that I had, and that you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: I had his ear and that I was able to,
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: you know, in a respectful way, disagree with him quite
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: a lotge I think was important because I think a
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: lot of his staff is very afraid to do that.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: So you know, I missed that role, both for selfish
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: reasons and for patriotic reasons. I miss having that role.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: Now having said all of that, thankfully, I do have
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: quite a close relationship with JD. Vance and I hope
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: that that continues. I believe it will, but we'll see.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: By the way, in terms of sort of uniqueness, you're right,
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: I am the only guy who you know, worked super
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: hard for Desantas and for Trump. You know, in this cycle.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: I'm also the only guy at least who has a
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: public face. There's some behind the scenes people, but I'm
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: only sort of public facing person who's worked at a
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: really senior level for both JD. Vans and for Donald Trump.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: And so you know, I'm hopeful that that means that
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: I stay relevant and that you know, media cares what
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I think, and a lot of you know, fans out
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: there and followers and readers of mine and people who
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: watch my media productions, you know, continue to care what
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: I think. But you know, whether or not I have
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: any relationship with Trump individually, one on one, again, I'm
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: not sure it's of course open from my end, but
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: you know, we'll have to see. But yeah, it's Frankly,
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: it is a weird and conflicting situation. You know, I
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: woke up every day and worked my tail off for
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: a guy who, at least right now won't talk to me.
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: And that's you know, and used to right. I mean,
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: so it's it's a strange place to be in a
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: lot of ways.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm guessing you may correct me if I'm wrong.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: You must have at least some regrets.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Is there is there something that when you look back
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: on you say to yourself, boy, I wish I would
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: have gone in a different direction.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: And if so, at what point would that have been?
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, one thing I regret is I wish
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: I had told Trump before I went to Santis that
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: I had told him Manda Man. The reason I didn't
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: is I thought he would leak it immediately, right, and
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: I wanted to give my new employer, essentially, you know,
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: the the Santras world, the benefit of them announcing it
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: in a way that they wanted to announce it right,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: because you know, it was a reasonably big coup at
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: the time for you know, a senior Trunk's Trump spokesman
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: to flip teams, right and to come over to the Santus.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: But in retrospect I feel a little bit ashamed. I
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: think I owed him that, and I wish i'd done
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: it quite frankly, you know, and I didn't. But as
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: far as the professional decisions I made, honestly, I don't
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: regret it. I mean, look, it didn't work out, obviously.
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: I mean so in theory I should regret going with
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: Dessatus because it clearly didn't work. But John, I did
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: it for the right reasons, and I listened to people
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: like you, and and you were the person I talked
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: to the most about it, by the way, And I'll
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: always appreciate your counsel on this, and you were completely
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: correct and where you you know, UH pronosticated things were headed,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: you know, but I did it for reasons of patriotism
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: and principle. And you know, I'm not going to feel
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: badly about that, even though you know clearly it didn't
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: work out. And by the way, though I then very
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: quickly went back to UH to Trump World, and by
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: the way, too, people should know, you know, unfortunately, and
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: sometimes this is what happens in life when you operate
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: on principle. You know, I ticked off Governor de Santa's
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: quite a bit too by going so quickly back to
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: Trump once I realized it was unwinnable. And he certainly
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: did not appreciate when I told him privately very early
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: on in the summer of twenty three that he needed
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: to get out of the race, because I just I
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: saw what was happening, and I saw our polling internally
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: at the pack that we were running from Desantas, and
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: he obviously didn't appreciate that. So I successfully tipped off
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: both uh, President Trump and Ron De Santis, and uh,
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: you know, but hey, that's life sometimes. Well look, I
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: totally respect one hundred percent everything that you did, and
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: you know, so I'm one hundred.
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Percent of a Steve Cortez supporter. But from my.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Perspective, since you mentioned my little role in this, the
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: moment that I wish we had back. I don't even
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: know how much you remember about this, but was after
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: you had privately accepted the gig with the Santas.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: It was clear, at least.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: To me and I think to you that internally there
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: were some things going on there that weren't going to
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: be very conducive to you being successful. And I made
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: one last plea to torch this, to not go to
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the Santis. Do not blow up the Trump bridge for
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: a candidate that is not going to win in DeSantis,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: for you know, to with it in a situation where
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Trump could still be president, was going to be the nominee.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: And obviously everyone knows that Trump used the world through
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: the lens where he loyalty is everything to him, and
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: if you go against him, it's almost impossible to come back.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that moment and do you do you
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: agree or disagree with make my assessment of it?
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean I agree with you. You clearly
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: you were right on the outcome. And I guess at
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: the time I didn't realize, uh, you know, quite the
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: level of suspicion that I would be viewed at within
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: DeSantis world once I joined. In other words, there are
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: a lot of people who thought I was some imposter.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: I was literally accused of being a spy for Trump,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: which of course is ludicrous, you know, particularly given the
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: the cost to me, I mean financial and otherwise to
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: go there, Like none of it was in my self interest, right,
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, it just clearly wasn't the vitriol that I took,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: you know, online that I still take to this day.
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: And by the way, like right now, this is kind
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: of interesting. Right now today, it's really kind of resuscitated
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: on social media, and I think the reason is a
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: lot of people think that I'm trying to get some
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: job at the administration, which I'm not. I have no
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: interest in that. Not that anything's been offered, but I
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: have no interest in it, and so it's it's sort
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: of reared it's ugly head again. A lot of this
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: are really you know, ugly attacks on me that I'm
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: a rhino, which is of course hilarious because I'm probably
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: the most right wing guy you know, within sort of
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: the conservative media world or you know, people with any
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: kind of following a reputation. I mean, you don't get
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: further right than me, you know, so the idea of
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: calling me a rhino is absurd. But there's some people
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: with you know, reasonably big platforms who are kind of
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: loud mouths within Trump world or you know, the larger
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: Maga world, who are really rattling the cage again just
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: like they did back when I joined Dessantas. You know,
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: we're kind of getting a smaller version of that, but
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: a little bit of a two point zero in that regard.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: So you know, it's uh, look, it's it's not been fun.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: And had I listened to you would to save myself
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: some aggravation. But again, I I don't regret being motivated
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: by principle. I thought I was doing the right thing.
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: I still have an enormous regard for Governor de Santas,
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: by the way, I do, even though I don't think
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: he'll talk to me either, But I have enormous regard
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: for him. I think he's an amazing governor and uh
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: and I think he's got a super super bright future ahead,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: whatever that is. I listen if if he happens to
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: listeners podcast, Governor de Santas appoints yourself a senator. I
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: believe he should do that. I really do, But I
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: don't know if he will.
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: Really I think, who do you think he Who do
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: you think he will? Any idea on that? Now?
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: My guest, if I had to guess, would be Byron
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Donald's just in terms of if I look at politicians
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: within Florida who seem to have, you know, promising future,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: who basically get along with both Trump and as Santas,
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: to me, it seems like Byron Donalds is kind of
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: the obvious choice in that regard.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Well, I've tweeted that Desantas ought
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: to pick somebody who's super old because that way they
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: and you know, they serve for two years and then
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: DeSantis himself can run for the seat. You know, obviously
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: we're talking about this because Marco Rubio is going to
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: be leaving the Senate to work in the Trump administration
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: and Secretary of State, and so it's unfortunate. I don't
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: know that DeSantis has a path for anything. I mean,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: the only path that the Santas has for a political
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: future if he can't find a Senate seat in Florida
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: is basically for JD. Vans and Donald Trump to have
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: a matts some falling out. That's really the only path
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: that Desantas has. And let's let's I want to hold
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: off on that because I would.
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: Just because I think this is interesting. As of this taping,
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: at least, Rubio has not been announced. It's widely reported,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: but it has not been officially announced at least, you know,
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: while we're taping on on Wednesday, so we'll see. By
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: the way, I am very much anti Rubio as Secretary
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: of State or any significant post. I think he is
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: way too much of a neok, way too much of
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: a warhawk and an interventionist. I know a lot of
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: people in the magar right agree with me and are
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: making a lot of noise on social media. So we'll see.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: But it looks like he hasn't. But we'll see.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: By the way, just for jokes, I asked for someone
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: on Twitter to come up with somebody who was famous
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: enough to take the seat and old enough to give
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: it up, and was a Florida resident, and someone came.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Up with Hulk Hogan.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Hulk Holgan would be a perfect Hulk Hogan would probably
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: not run for re election as the Senator from Florida,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: and therefore DeSantis could run for it in twenty.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: First senator with a sex tape, right.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I find it bizarre that Marco Rubio will likely
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: become the first Secretary of State who has ever questioned
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: the penis size of his president during the presidential campaign.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's never happened before either. We're limited a
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: very very strange time, Steve, So, before we talk about
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: some of the more specifics of these choices that Trump
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: or Trump team is making, I want to ask you
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: about Trump two point zero in a larger picture, in
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: kind of more the psychological standpoint, because you do understand
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Trump's mentality, and look, it's we're in the infancy stages
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: of this. And I hate when I'm being optimistic, and
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily being optimistic, but I'm taking more of
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: an optimistic stance than I might normally when it comes
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: to Trump. But it occurs to me in the big
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: picture of life, you know, getting a second chance is
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: such an incredible commodity.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: It's such such a rarity to be.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Able to do something the second time around with much
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: more knowledge and experience than you had the first time, right,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: And I never truly bought this narrative that was very
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: popular among Trump bands that the reason why Trump wasn't
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: more successful in his first term was that he was inexperienced.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: He didn't understand the.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Swamp, you know, the neokon took over, you know, and
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: this is why he had falling, falling out with almost
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: everybody he appointed, everyone he hired, and that this was
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: partially why he got duped by the COVID panic was
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: that he just wasn't he wasn't prepared. He wasn't experienced,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: He didn't understand the ins and outs of how corrupt
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Washington is. You know the narrative I'm talking about, right,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's a very popular narrative among Trump. Well,
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: now here we are in the infancy stages of building
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: this Trump two point zero, and I'm starting to think,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: is it possible that Trump's second term in twenty twenty
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: four could be way more quote unquote conservative depending on
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: your definition of that, then his second term would have
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: been in twenty twenty had he won.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: In other words, if he had won in twenty twenty, it.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Would have been a continuation of this chaotic situation where
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: he's fighting off people that don't don't really agree with
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: him necessarily that where he's they're not necessarily loyal to
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: him personally. And now it feels like he knows, this
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: is my last shot.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I got four years to do this.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: He's got people like Elon Musk whispering whispering in his
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: ear who are very, very motivated for radical dismantling of
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: what had been in place during the Democratic years. And
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: it seems like a lot more is gonna get done
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: to promote his agenda for better or for worse in
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: this version of Trump two point zero than if he
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: had won in twenty twenty or certainly what happened in
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. What is your take on that whole issue.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: I totally believe that, and I'm very optimistic and very
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: confident on it. And let me give you one specific
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: reason why if we look at Department of Defense and
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Pete Hadseth being chosen for Secretary of State, totally unorthodox pick, right.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, just to be clear, Secretary of Defense.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, yeah, in no worries Secondary of Defense, gret defense.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: I believe, you know, totally unorthodox pick. You know, although
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: he is a veteran with significant experience and combat experience
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: and you know, herodic experience, quite frankly, but you know,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: not somebody who is in sort of the foreign policy bureaucracy,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: the policy establishment of the United States. You know, a
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: TV guy. Of course, Trump loves TV guys, which is
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: one of the reasons I got so close with him.
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: But somebody who has been super critical of the wokeness
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: of the American military, somebody who has been brutal in
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: his criticisms, I think correct criticisms of the top brass
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: of the American military, which is super politicized and very
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: much aligned with the administrative state and leftist elements in Washington,
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: d C. That tells me that Trump is coming in
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: to kick ass at the Pentagon. And of course, according
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: to Wall Street Journal reporting, which is usually pretty valid,
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: has already prepared the legal structure to fire whole slots
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: of generals who have been politicized and who are into
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: woke nonsense at the Pentagon. And so that tells me
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: that combination of the hex set appointment as Secretary Defense,
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: and this memorandum and this understanding of this plan to
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: dismiss a whole lot of top brass at the Pentagon,
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: that tells me that he is coming into town with
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: a very different set of ideals and plans and a
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: different conviction level that, yes, I believe it will be
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: a much more conservative, I think your exact correct term
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: than his second term would have been had he prevailed
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: in twenty twenty.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: You mentioned hextaph, which is interesting from the media perspective
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: on a couple of different fronts. One, you mentioned that
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: he's a Fox News host, and it has been absolutely outrageous.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: That that's the way he has been.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Portrayed by the news media in the announcement of his
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: pick to be the Defense secretary. I mean, you have
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: made your figures on the left and including Elizabeth Warren,
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: who are describing him as a weekend Fox News host,
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: as if that is his qualification for the job, which
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: is completely ridiculous, absurd, inaccurate. However, Steve, are you not
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: at least being a TV guy yourself? Are you not
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: at least a little uncomfortable with how important it appears
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: to be to Trump or whoever's making these decisions?
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: How many times you have appeared on Fox News Channel
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: over the last eight years.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, because there's a direct correlation between how many
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: times you've been on Fox News Channel and your chances
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: of being a part of this administration?
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Is that not a little troubling?
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: Maybe a TV ten e bat to me, let me,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: I'll admit that, but not much. You know, Look, does
• 47:35
  Speaker 3: the president watch? Does President Trump watch a little too
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: much cable news? Yes? Okay, uh, But he's also a
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: TV star himself. I mean, it's just it's his world,
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: it's his milieu. He's a New York celebrity, somebody who
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: has dominated media in a lot of ways, even before politics.
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: So I mean, I get it, but I mean you
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: should it trouble us a little bit? Sure? Is it
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: a major worry? No, not to me. And in the
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: case of heckstat too it. You're actly right. The criticisms
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: of him, you know, just that he's simply a TV
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: anchor is ridiculous. I mean, no, He's had a really
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: consequential life, graduate at Princeton and Harvard, significant military service,
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: and yes, is a talented communicator on TV. And by
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: the way, that matters for positions of leadership, particularly in
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: this day and age. The fact that he's you know,
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: he's handsome and he's eloquent in right, I mean that
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: will I think help him do his job a little
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: too much to Trump?
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: Maybe, well, Steve, you'll love this.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: So I was looking at some old videos of Haigstaff
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: talking about, you know, getting rid of woke culture within
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: the media, and I was very impressed by this. And
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: so we we have My wife has several nephews that
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: are in the military.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: So I showed her the video.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: I said, I think I think your nephews are going
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: to be in much better shape moving forward with this
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: the new Defense secretary and all she wanted to.
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Know about him, was you know, was he married? And
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: you know, because he's so hot, so she was all in.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: My wife is all in on heck.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Said as the best secretary because as you say, Trump
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: loves good looking people on on both sides, and this
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: is going to probably be the best looking administration in
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: history based.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: Upon going you see that because you know, people will
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: accuse him of being sexist, right because he cares about
• 49:20
  Speaker 3: women's looks. He cares just as much about the guys
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: looks he does. I mean he's obviously more. Yeah, but
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: it matters to him if a guy's handsome on television.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: That is a huge attribute to to Donald Trump. So yeah,
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: it's uh, well, it's interesting.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of that, I'm assuming since you say you
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: listen to every minute of the podcast the depth of journalism,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: which I don't necessarily envy you for, but you must
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: have heard my thoughts on Susie Wilds being the chief
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: of staff and the role that her being the daughter
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: of Pat Summer all plays and how Trump views her.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: What is your what was your take on what I
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: said there?
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: Oh? I think it's yeah, I think your exactly credit.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: It for sure is part of why he respects her,
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: and to your point that you made maybe even slightly
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: fears her, right, which wouldn't be the worst thing in
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: the world. So I Susie Wilder's listen. I do have
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: some reservations politically because I just don't think she's ideologically
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: where I am and where Trump is. And you know,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: in most America first people are having said that, boy
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: was she a skilled manager of this campaign. She was
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: an incredibly skilled manager of Rod DeSantis' campaigns in the past.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: I think she's a big reason that Florida is no
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: longer a swing state, that it is read and getting
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: redder all the time. A lot of that credit goes
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: to Susie Wilds. So she's also somebody, which is rare
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: in politics, who doesn't want the limelight, doesn't want credit,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: doesn't want to face on television. So when you combine
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: all those skills with the pedigree of being Pat Somercall's daughter,
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: which yeah, absolutely matters of Trump. I mean media guy,
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: sports guy, right, celebrity. Trump's golf obsessed.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Of course, as you mentioned on your pod, you know
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: he became in many ways the face and voice of
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: the Masters and other tournaments. So does it matter to
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: him yeah. Absolutely, And by the way, why shouldn't it.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, sure, you know I have no problem with that.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: You know, we're not royalists. We don't obsess about pedigree,
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: but it can certainly matter. When you come from successful
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: and parents of achievement, it's likely that you've learned a
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: lot of good lessons from them. Right.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: I'm really eager to hear your thoughts on this next subject.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: And I don't know that you even are aware that
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go here, So I'm going to try
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: to explain myself. This goes into the category of me
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: being hesitant to be optimistic. But I have a theory
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: about this Department of Government efficiency situation involving Elon Musk
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: being given essentially the head of this I didn't know
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: what you would call it, but it's not an actual department.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: It's right now, it's new, it's made up, it doesn't
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: have any apparent direct power, but it's being portrayed that
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk and the vague Ramaswami will be heading this up.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Now here's my.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Theory on this, Steve, and I'm very very curious to
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: see if you agree on this. I think that this
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: is a brilliant move to sideline Viveke Ramaswami because Vivek
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: was being talked about as potentially the next senator from Ohio,
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: which was never going to happen, but that was talked about.
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: He was actually on supposedly the short list for sex
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: Secretary of State. And I view as you know, I
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: view Viveke as a complete fraud. And I believe that
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Trump sees Vivake for mostly what he is. But the
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: problem is that Viveke is very, very popular in Trump world,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: and so he's a problem. You've got to deal with him.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: You have to give him something. You have to give
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: him something in order to placate the portion of the
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: base that loves him. So what they have done with Vivek,
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, is completely new to him. By putting
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: him in the shadow of Elon Musk, right, the largest
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: shadow that there is. Right with a Vega, Levik will
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: have no power whatsoever, but he'll be able to go
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: on television. Fine, let him go on Fox and they'll
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: be able to say that he's the co director of
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: the Department of Government Efficiency whatever.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Musk doesn't need any actual power.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Because he has this direct pipeline to Trump, who obviously
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: respects the hell out of him. If Musk has an
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: issue with anything that's not being done, all he has
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: to do is tweet something and tens of millions of
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: people are automatically going to revolt and Trump will immediately
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: have you have to act on it. So Musk doesn't
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: need an official position. His power is in being Elon
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Musk and owning Twitter.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: So my theory, and I hate to give people too
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: much credit, as.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: You know, but my theory is that this is a
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: brilliant way to take advantage of Elon Musk's pros and
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: cons while sidelining Theveke Ramaswami, what do you say, what
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: does your take on that?
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: Well, first, let me just say this is exactly why
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: I listen to your podcast and why everybody should. I
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: had not even thought of this. I think you're absolutely
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: onto something. I think you're probably, if not totally correct,
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: mostly correct on this because you're right, and I did
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: think of that, not in the way you did, but
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: I thought of it immediate. Like gosh, being the understudy
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: of the Elon Musk, I mean, that's like being a
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: background dancer to Taylor Swift, like nobody cares. I mean right,
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: like you just you know, he blocks out the sun,
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: you know, to your point, he's kind of like Trump
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: in that regard, right, like there is no there is
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: no you know, he's a heat sink right in that regard.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: So and let me tell you this though, and so
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: maybe I can add a little bit of you know,
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: background gossip that I believe is true, that I can
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: add to this because I do talk to a lot
• 54:39
  Speaker 3: of senior people in Trump world bide the way, I don't
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: talk to Trump anymore, but I talked to a lot
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: of senior people there who of course won't name, but
• 54:45
  Speaker 3: you know, very very senior branding people. And somebody told
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: me that Trump was irate recently when Elon Musk after
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: the garbage comment from Biden. If you notice, Vivake got
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: out first and the veke did a garbage stunt where
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: he was picking up the trash, and he did it
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: before Trump, before Trump doned the orange vest. Now, when
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: you're directly working for his campaign, like, you don't go
• 55:11
  Speaker 3: do that stunt first, right, you suggested to the boss,
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: he does it, or he tells you that, okay, you
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: do it. After I debut the vest, uh, And I
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: was told very credibly that Trump was irate at Vivek
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: for doing that, for essentially front running him right in
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: terms of a garbage stunt that he you know, he
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: wants the limelight too badly. He doesn't realize his place
• 55:32
  Speaker 3: in the pecking order. Uh. He is sort of ambition
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: personified right in a lot of ways. And there's some
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: positives to that, by the way, Uh, but there's some
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: there's some real negative So yeah, you may really be
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: honest something. Maybe maybe President Trump, in a crafty way
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: said here's why I'm gonna, you know, supposedly elevate him,
• 55:49
  Speaker 3: but actually diminish him.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, he's been totally sidelined. He's been totally neutered.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: And the basis of my theory, I think I have
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: a decent hand on how Trump thinks. I mean, you
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: know him way better than I do, but I've watched
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: him for so long and I think I have a decent,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: you know, perspective on his thought process. And in a
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: lot of ways, I respect Trump and his instincts. I
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: think Trump has really good instincts at times. And to me,
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: the vegue is the kind of guy that Trump from
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: a mile away is going to be able to see
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: Wait a minute, this guy is trouble, uh frankly, because
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of like. That's the problem for
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Veke and Trump are a lot of like. And I think,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: you know, there's the old saying that game recognizes game.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I think Trump, I think Trump recognizes what for Veke
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: really is all about, and that he is a threat,
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: that he is a threat in the future to MAGA inc.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: And that he needs to be sidelined.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: And I think he just got sidelined and neutered, uh
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: well while by while pretending that this is this great,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: this great position that he's been put in.
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah's instinct to by the way, because I like you
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: just I think this might be illuminated for the audience.
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: I agree his his instincts are almost always correct. The
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: problem is as president he often didn't follow them, particularly
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: when it came to COVID. So in twenty twenty, you know,
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: I was in his ear a lot, okay, way more
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: than he cared for it quite frankly, Okay, but I
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: just so vehtently disagreed very early on, you know, with
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: as did you of course, with you know, with the lockdowns,
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: with the procedures and of the time all I had
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: was the Chicago radio show, where I was being very
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: loud on there. But that's a limited audience, right, So
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: I made sure though that I bothered the president a lot.
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: I was on the phone a lot, I was in
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: the ovalofs lot. Every time he was he was confronted with,
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: you know, serious decisions about COVID, his instinct was always correct.
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: And then almost every time he caved, he caved to
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Jared Kushner, to Fauci, to the media. And by the way, listen,
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: I also give him perhaps a bit more leeway or
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: a bit more mercy on that than you do, because
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: you know, frankly, he was being confronted with really dire,
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: really scary uh scenario, which I didn't believe. But nonetheless,
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: I mean the German gloom that he was presented with
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: was formidable, right. But in any case, just to let
• 58:07
  Speaker 3: you know, like, even on a private level, it's amazing
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: how right his instincts are, but he didn't follow them
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: often enough. I hope and pray that that's going to
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: be different in the second term.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you, Steve about what I
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: see is an incredible opportunity. I think you may have
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: heard about this already in the podcast, but I want
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: to get your take on it. And I personally think
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: that this ought to be a centerpiece of the inaugural address.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: As you know, I believe that liberals one of their
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: great vulnerabilities is that they always overplay their hand.
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: They always overreact. It's always emotion based. And the reaction
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: to Trump, especially towards the end and in the aftermathy
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: of the.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Election, has been so over the top. The hitler, the dictator,
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: the tyrant. Women's rights are going away, that you know,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: women being terrified for their and not being allowed to
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: have reproductive rights, and we're going back in time and
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: all this absolute bull crap, right. But to me, this
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: has created an enormous opportunity, enormous opportunity if Trump understands it,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: sees it, and cares enough about the future of the country.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Because to me, what I would do if I were
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Trump at that inaugural is I would speak directly, especially
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: to the women of America who have been lied to.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: You have been lied to by the Democratic Party and
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: the fake news media about your rights being endangered. I
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: want you, I want to make a deal with you.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: I want you to understand that in four years, your
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: rights will not be touched. Your life will be better
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: than it is today. And when I am right, I
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: want you to hold those that lied to you accountable
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: for that lie. And the same thing goes to those
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: who say I am not leaving this office in four years,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: because in four years, I'm going to be glad to
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: hand this off to whoever in the Republican Party is
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: the nominee. I'm gonna go play golf after I've made
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: America great again. These people lied to you, and and
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: and we and you and I both know these are
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: easily proven proven lies, easily proven lies. And so if
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: he made that challenge in a high profile way at
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: the inaugural, I think it would leave a huge mark
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: on the Democratic Party, the liberal establishment, wokeism, because I
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: think there would be enough people that would go, gee,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, he's right, Yeah, my life hasn't changed
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: at all in these four years I was lied to.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: What do you make of that opportunity? And what do
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: you think the chances are that somebody in Trump world
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: is going to see the value in that?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Well, listen, not only is it a great idea, Okay,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: an absolutely fantastic idea, and one that I had not
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: thought of, So thank you. But not only do I
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: agree with it, And I haven't even told you this yet, John,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: but I'm as well just tell you here on the podcast.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: I have taken action already on this what I have done,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: and I haven't finished it yet, but I am drafting
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: what I would do for the inaugural address, and I'm
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: going to hopefully finish it today. And I'm going to
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: get this to the people because again I don't talk
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: to Trump, but I've talked to very senior people. I'm
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: going to get this to the very people who wrote
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: his first inaugural address, who I believe will be at
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: least involved in writing this one. I don't know that,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: but I believe they will be with you know, decent
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: level of confidence. So I'm going to get them my
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: draft of this largely based on your idea. So not
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: only do I agree with it, I am acting on it,
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: and I'm using my channels to see if I can
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: get this. You know, in the old days, I just
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: call Trump. Unfortunately, I don't have that open line right now,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: but I'm doing what I can. I think it's that important,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: not just for him but for the country. John, I mean,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: it really is. It would be so important for the country.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: You know, so many problems in our society I believe
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: flow from this, you know, confusion of the sexes right,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: and from us demonizing masculinity and elevating a fake, extremist,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: radical feminism that is not authentic feminine. If we get
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: back to authentic femininity and masculinity in this country, I
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: think it would just do wonders for us. And politics
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: is absolutely part of that. It's not the only part
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: of the equation, but it's a big part of it.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: And I think your tactic, your device, your rhetorical device,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: would be a huge step forward there, and particularly for
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 3: a lot of women who are who have been scared
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 3: quite frankly, and you know, listen, I have some of
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: these women in my extended family. I mean, they are
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 3: so frightened right now, and I try to tell them,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 3: what do you think is going to happen to you?
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, to do you honestly believe in this hands
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: made tailed nonsense, right? So I think for Trump to
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: lay down that marker right and say judge me on this, right,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: and let's come back, it.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: Has to be a challenge. It has to be a challenge.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: It has to be dramatically laid out. Let me speak
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: directly to you, the women of America who have been
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: lied to by the fake news and the Democratic Party.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, it has to be very clear cut, and
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: there's it's a no lose because there's no chance that
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: any of these lives are going to turn out to
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: be true.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: Here's my concern, though, Steve.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: It would go against in this kind I want you
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: to put on your psychologists tat again about Trump. It
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: would go against Trump's what I perceive to be his
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: basic philosophy, which is, if it's not directly about him,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: he doesn't care that much about it, And what I'm
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: suggesting would really be about the future of the country
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: and what happens four years from now, which would not
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: directly impact him. Do you see that as a potential
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: hindrance in him seeing the benefits of this strategy.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Oh, I don't agree with you there, John, and we
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: don't disagree much. But I have way more confidence in
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: his patriotism than you do. I just think he deeply,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: deeply loves this country. Now does he Other aspects of
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: him that are egomaniacal? There are, okay, but he deeply
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 3: loves this country, and I think he would see the
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: utility both for him and for the country in this.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Well.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: You know, if Trump were to do anything close to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: what we just talked about at the inaugural I would
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: be thrilled, even though I think it would actually be
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: very beneficial to Don Trump. I hope he would see
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: the how it's in his self interest to do this,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: but it would be even more beneficial to the country
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: as a whole in its future.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: And that's where I want to go next with my.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: On our last few moments of this interview, you've already
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: referenced that you're very close to jd Vance. You worked
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: on his senatorial campaign. You have enormous respect for him.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: That had a huge impact on my perception of jd Vance.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: He grew on me during the presidential campaign. He's obviously
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: super smart, and I think that he helped himself a
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: great deal in the debate with Tim Walls and obviously winning.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: Now his future is very very different that if Trump
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: had lost. I'm assuming you agree with my theory or
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: my view, which is almost obvious that unless there's a
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: falling out with Donald Trump, jd Vance is the twenty
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: twenty eight Republican presidential nomine Do you agree with that?
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: Yes? And I hope to work on that project, and
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: I hope to help get him elected. I have just
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: unending respect for JD. Vance, And just so folks there
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: in the audience, you know, realiz or you know, have
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: a glimpse into why I have some much respect for him.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: I worked for him in twenty twenty two throughout the
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: year in his Senate campaign, and that was a brutal,
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: tough campaign. He came from fourth place when I joined
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: the campaign to winning the nomination and then of course
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: winning the general election in a super competitive primary. And
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 3: the biggest knock on him at the time was that
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: he had been very anti Trump in the past. So
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 3: I was brought in this sort of ironic because of
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: course now I'm accused of being anti Trump, but I
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: was brought in to essentially trumpify him and to convince
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: MAGA voters, who are plentiful in the Republican primary in
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: Ohio dominant in fact, that this guy was fully in
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: line with Trump and with MAGA and with America First principles.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: And we did that, thankfully, really successfully in a really
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: tough primary. By the way, He won the primary with
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: twenty nine percent of the vote, so it's not like
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: it was running away at all, but no runoffs there
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: in the primary, and the crowded primary, that was enough
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: to win. Of course, he then won the general election.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: I think he's been unbelieve eevable Senator, and throughout this
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: campaign the way he has performed in the face of adversity,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: because the media barrage against him was intense. It was
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: full of lies and smears and slander, and he persevered,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: and he put his head down and he took them
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: on with logic, with a smile. And I don't think
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: there's anybody better right now in TV at deconstructing the
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: lies of the corporate media to their faces than Jdvans.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: And because of that, by the way, he has been rewarded,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: and I've written about this, posted about it quite a
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: bit on social media. He's been rewarded with a lot
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: of people, not just you, millions and millions of Americans
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 3: have rallied and warned to Jdvance And we see it
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 3: in the polling. So in favorability polling, which we did
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: a lot of, I did a lot of Obviously a
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 3: lot of outside groups do in most finished line polls,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: in other words, you know polls right before the election.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: He was the only one of the four candidates for
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 3: president and vice president who had a positive favorability ready,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: the only one because most politicians generally, even well liked politicians,
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 3: will still have a negative favorability rating at the national level.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: That's just kind of normal. But JD. Rallied from and
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: in my polling, at least right after he was nominated,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: during that media barrage against him, which was pretty successful initially,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: right at knocking him down and that whole dumb campaign
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: that he was weird. He's the least weird guy in
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: the world. But regardless, you know, that was the phrase
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: and the campaign against him. Initially he was at you know,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: minus twenty five in my polling, and he got all
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: the way back to positive. That's astounding for him to
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 3: do that, and he did it in the face of
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: you know, a ton of lies against him, and and
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 3: you know, just to tell you too, my personal interaction
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: with him is not just professional but also like very personal.
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: We barnstore in the state of Ohio, and we just
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: drove and drove and drove, I mean literally kind of
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 3: circles around the state of Ohio, And what we tried
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: to do is every two hours we had to stop
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 3: right where we went and spoke to whomever. The Rotary Club,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: you know, the Buck Club at the library. I mean
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: sometimes it was a huge group of you know, we
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 3: talked to five hundred people and another was ten. But
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 3: introducing him to voters all over Ohio and I was
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: literally kind of the warm up band. So I would
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: introduce him and then he would take it from there
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: and then take questions. But when you spend that much
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: time on the road with somebody in a car, and
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: most of the time it was a driver and JD
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 3: and I that was it. You really get to know
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: them right when you're you know, stopping at gas stations,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: eating court nuts and shoot the breeze, talking serious stuff,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: talking family stuff. Anyway, you get to really really know somebody.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: And I am telling you he is the most principled, smartest,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 3: most fun genuine person that I have met in all
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: of politics. One of the greatest people I've met in
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: life period. I mean, that's how much unending admiration I
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: have for him. I was working behind the scenes to
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: help get his nomination to the vice president to help
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: get Trump to select him. Thankfully, I was part of
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: a lot of folks who were working on that campaign,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 3: sort of a quiet campaign. Thankfully it worked. I think
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: he's going to be an amazing vice president, and I
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: think he's going to be an amazing president after that.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: I do.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: I hope you're right. Last two questions real quick? You know,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: are you at all concerned?
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Because I am, because I'm concerned about all sorts of things,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: sometimes rightly sometimes wrongly. But are you'd all concerned about
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: the possibility of the advance and Elon Musk, two very
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: big personalities could eventually have falling outs with Donald Trump.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of theory going around, especially when
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: it comes to Musk and Trump, with two massive egos there,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: that eventually something's gonna happen to disrupt that relationship. We
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: obviously saw what happened with Mike Pence, although that was
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: a pretty unusual situation. I don't think that if January sixth,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: you know, doesn't happen. I think if that doesn't occur,
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: I think Pence and Trump are probably fine. I don't
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: know if Pence is the VP pick again, that would
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: have been interesting to find out if there had never
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: been a January sixth, would Pence have been the vice
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: presidential pick?
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: Again? Probably not? But what is your take psychologically?
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: It's based upon what you know of Trump about the
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: concerns that people have about the Musk Advance relationships being
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: able to sustain themselves.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great question. On the Vance side, Vance
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 3: and Trump, I'm not worried there, I'm really not. I
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: just think that they are so attuned and in line.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: I don't have concerns. But on the Trump and Musk,
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: you know, could there be a potential breakup there? Absolutely? Right,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 3: you have two very valuable characters in many ways, I
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 3: think the two most most known and powerful people in
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: America in a lot of ways. And Musk. While while
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 3: those of us on the right are correctly thrilled with
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 3: him right, particularly because he's restored free speech on a
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: huge platform and in some ways restored free speech to America.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: And I don't think it's a exaggeration to say that,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: right because of what he's done on Twitter. But he's
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 3: a complicated figure, and I think a lot of us,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of folks on the right, if they looked
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 3: into him more, they wouldn't be thrilled with a lot
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: of what he believes, particularly when it comes to philosophy
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 3: and religion.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: He's a virulent atheist, a transhumanist. I mean, he's the
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 3: opposite of a Christian Conservative, even though a lot of
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: Christian Conservatives are cheering him on right now. And so
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: he's a complicated guy. And because of that, because he's
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: complicated and votele And I think if used himself as
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: almost extra human, if you know, I mean that's maybe
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 3: that's a bit of an exaggeration, but I really believe
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: that that he he sees himself as a superhero in
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: a different kind of way than most humans would. The
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 3: chance of him having a serious breakup at some point
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: with Trump, I think is significant. And by the way,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: if I can bring that to policy, because I think
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: this is important. I think it's critical. And I've talked
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 3: with JD. Vance directly about this, and I hope he
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: follows through on it. It's important for us to not
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: rest on this issue of big tech and censorship right.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: In other words, we can't just rely on the benevolence
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: of one billionaire to restore free speech in America, because
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: there are censorship regimes at all of the other platforms
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: that are so significant and so insidious that in my
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: view they should not be legal, and that we need
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: to protect free speech. And we can't rest just because
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: Elon's doing us as solid right now, we can't count
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: on that. And again particularly with somebody as followed those Elon,
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: but even if he were a saint, I still would
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: say we can't count on, you know, the judgment of
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: one person essentially to restore free speech, which is you know,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 3: under and free speech is underttack, not just in America
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 3: but throughout the Western world. It's one of the almost
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: issues of our time.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Agreed.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: Last question, we haven't talked at all about the Democrat
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: responds really to all of this. You know, if Vance
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: is going to be the Republican nominee in twenty twenty eight,
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: which I agree, he will be barring a massive falling
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: out with Trump, which I hope does not happen. And
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: by the way, I agree with you, I don't think
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: it's going to happen, because I think Vance is smart
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: enough and has his ego in place enough to where
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: he's not going to let that happen, and I think
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: he'll make sure that he and Trump stay on good terms,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: especially with the Mike Pence precedent. But where do you
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: think Democrats are going to end up going in twenty
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: twenty eight? Obviously, you know Gavin Newsom is clearly thinking
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: that he's going to be the front runner based upon
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: his early actions. I have already stated that I don't
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: see a path for him actually winning. And then I
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: think Vance would be thrilled to run against Gavin Newsom,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: especially after what happened with Harris.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: What is your take on I know it's early, but
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: where do you think this is headed on that front?
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, listen again, I'd be thrilled to take on Newsome
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: whoever our nominee is. And of course I ope it
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: Advance because I just think California is, you know, something
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: he can't defend. So I really think it'll be one
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 3: of the Midwestern governors or swing state governors, you know,
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: either Shapiro or Whitmer or Pritzker, all of whom are
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 3: certainly running. In my view. In the case of Pritzker,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: the ability to self finance to a massive scale is significant.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: And don't dismiss that. I mean, as awful as Illinois
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: is in many ways, it's it's as bad as California,
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: and I you know, I know because he's a big
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: part of the reason I no longer live there after
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: being born and raised there and raising a family in
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: his state. But you know, don't underestimate the power of money.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: And he's sort of got that appropriate blend of appearing
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: kind of moderate, but he's actually pretty radical on policy.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: So he sort of appeases, you know, the Democrat establishment
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: and the crazies at the same time. But if I
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: had to bet today, if I took a portion of
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: my Trump bet, a tiny portion that had to bet today,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: I've bet on Shapiro just because in my polling again,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: you want to talk favorability, he is plus twenty five
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: or plus thirty on favorability. Now, governors tend to poll
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: very favorably, Okay, so that's not super unusual, but in
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 3: a swing state for a governor to poll plus twenty
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 3: five plus thirty on favorability, Holy Kyle, I mean that
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 3: tells me. Listen, I can't stand the guy. I don't
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: agree with them on any but he's doing some things right.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: He's a skillful politician to have that kind of favorability
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 3: rating in a swing state where he's the sitting governor,
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 3: so he would be, you know, also clearly formidable.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: So but you know, whoever agree with you, I agree
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: with you that I agree with you that he's clearly
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: got a very good path to the Democratic nomination. What
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: I find most interesting is that after Hillary and Kamala
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: both lost, you know, and Bill Burr on Saturday Night
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Live did his monologue about ladies, you're zero and two
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: against this guy. Now, I'm very curious is do whether
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: or not, even in Democratic circles, are they going to
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: be gunshy going with a female candidate at least in
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: two twenty eight? In other words, are they now convinced
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: they've they've so convinced themselves that Harris lost because of misogyny?
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: Right, So now are.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: They going to be so gun shy to go with
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: another female candidate because obviously they all want to have
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: a female president, that's part of their DNA. But is
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: is there going to be a portion of the Democratic
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: Party that, out of fear of massogyny, actually becomes misogynistic itself.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: You see what I'm see where see what I'm going
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: with it, where there becomes an an anti bias against
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: a female candidate because they're so worried about what might
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: happen a third time. I think there might be something
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: to that which would help Josh Shapiro. Of course, and
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: of course a lot of this is going to depend
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: on how many candidates you have. I think that if
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: it's you know, you know, a situation where you've got
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: a ton of candidates, which it could very well be,
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: then money is going to play a much bigger role.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: If it's only a couple of candidates. Let's say, you know,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: it's only Shapiro and two other people, I think Shapiro
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: could shine and probably win the nomination fairly easily, especially
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: given the fact that you know he's from Pennsylvania. And
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: there's going to be some people blaming Tim Waltz for
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: in the least the selection of Tim Waltz for why
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: Harris lost, and if we had picked Shapiro maybe we
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: would have won, blah blah blah. So I think, as usual,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: we're on the same page there, But obviously there's.
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: A long way to go. However, there's not as much
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: distance to go as people think, because we're in an
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: unprecedented situation, having just elected a lame doc president. This
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: this has never happened in.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: Modern history where we've had this particular situation, and now
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: both nominations are theoretically wide open, and we're also living
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: in an era where our elections have been elongated to
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: ridiculous degrees. Anyways, so effectively, twenty twenty eight is going
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: to begin all too soon. But anyway, Steve, this has
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: been great as always. I think this might have been
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: our best interview ever. I really appreciate your openness and
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: honesty about all this, because I know it hasn't been
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: all that easy for you in your unique situation. But
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: thanks as always for coming on, and obviously we'll keep in.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: Touch absolutely Listen. I appreciate your friendship, and I appreciate
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: your work. The work that you do. I learned greatly
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: from it, and I'm how to be part of it.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Thanks Deeve.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: I personally believe that was probably the best interview that
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: Steve and I have done together. It's certainly covered an
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: awful lot of territory and probably went in places that
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: you won't hear anyone else discuss regarding this presidential campaign
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: and what we can expect from Trump two point zero
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: and Obviously, if this podcast continues, that will not be
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: the last time that we have Steve on the show.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: I certainly hope that he is successful in getting my
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: inauguration idea to somebody who can actually make it happen.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: I have very low expectations, having gone through that process
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: many times before, and inevitably it never works out. But
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: you keep trying and maybe one day it actually will.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: But I really do believe that.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: That would be extremely effective, not just for Trump, but
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: for the cause of destroying liberal insanity and wokeism into
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: the future. But we'll see, and obviously we'll continue to
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: document it. One of the things that we talked about,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: one of the many, many things that we talked about
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: in the last episode of the podcast was the absolute financial.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Debacle that was the Harris campaign.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: And while I documented that pretty extensively, there was one
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: area of this that I hesitated to discuss. Thanks for
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: listening to today's free drop of the abbreviated show. If
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: you're interested in listening to the entire show, you must
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: become a patron. Please go to Patreon that's pat r
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: e O N dot com patreon dot com. Slash The
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: Death of Journalism with John Ziggler.
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: My name is j H h n z I E
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: G L e R.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: That's patreon dot com slash the Death of Journalism with
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: John Ziggler.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Good luck to you on that. But that's how you
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: can subscribe