Latest / The Curve / RTC123: Money lessons from 4-year old Olive & her Mum Emma Pickering.

Transcript

RTC123: Money lessons from 4-year old Olive & her Mum Emma Pickering. · The Curve

• 0:00
  Welcome to Raising the Curth, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
• 0:05
  to be better with your money.
• 0:07
  And the wise words of Amy Schumer were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
• 0:11
  I don't really get the saying.
• 0:13
  It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
• 0:17
  You know, I'm like, I'm still not ready to eat.
• 0:19
  Are you on the script?
• 0:20
  It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't
• 0:26
  need to be.
• 0:27
  OK, OK, so we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
• 0:31
  OK, the vegetables are just good for you.
• 0:33
  It's the brownie recipe.
• 0:34
  OK, we got there, we got there.
• 0:36
  OK, OK.
• 0:36
  Well, you've really got to finance, right?
• 0:38
  Yeah, one of us has to.
• 0:40
  This is true.
• 0:41
  OK, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager.
• 0:45
  Well, I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
• 0:48
  And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
• 0:50
  No, that's so not the joke, Vick.
• 0:53
  Oh.
• 0:54
  OK, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us.
• 0:56
  Because together, we really can raise the curve.
• 1:00
  This week on Raising the Curve, we spoke to the youngest.
• 1:04
  Well, we think it's our youngest listener.
• 1:07
  Long story short, she is four years old.
• 1:10
  Her mum Emma listens to the podcast.
• 1:13
  And so by association, all of has been listening to the curve.
• 1:18
  And she sent us an email a couple of weeks ago, which, honestly, we both,
• 1:23
  I would say separately together on multiple occasions read and wept too.
• 1:28
  Like it was the most beautiful email.
• 1:30
  And I think just to give context as to why we're speaking to both Emma and Olive,
• 1:35
  I'm going to read the email out just so that you understand how this all went down.
• 1:39
  OK, so the email goes, that can solve.
• 1:41
  I'm sure you get messages like this all the time, but I just had to message and say,
• 1:44
  thank you.
• 1:45
  Not for me, though, I'm thankful too.
• 1:48
  This is for my four-year-old daughter, Olive.
• 1:50
  We had the most unexpected conversation last night as I was typing her into bed.
• 1:54
  She asked me to pack her wallet and I got the bags ready to go away for the weekend
• 1:58
  so that she could spend the money she'd been given from her grandparents.
• 2:01
  I said, of course, she could spend some, but we'd also save some and we would invest some.
• 2:06
  Their spark to conversation I never expected to happen.
• 2:08
  And honestly, wouldn't have happened if I hadn't found the curve.
• 2:12
  She asked what investing was to which I said,
• 2:14
  it's giving money to a company you believe in so that when it grows and makes money,
• 2:18
  you get some extra money back, called interest.
• 2:22
  She asked what interest was and we talked about it more.
• 2:24
  She said she thought that we put her money in the bank, which we do regularly,
• 2:28
  and it just goes away.
• 2:29
  I said that when we keep it in the bank, we put it in a savings account,
• 2:33
  which again is earning her interest.
• 2:35
  Her eyes sparked up and she said, so my money can make more money.
• 2:40
  And I was just like, yep, baby girl, that's it.
• 2:43
  She asked me to teach her more about it and I was proud to tell her that I'd be able to.
• 2:47
  My conversation with her last night would have been so different
• 2:50
  without my twice weekly or more dose of the curve,
• 2:53
  plus your money reset course that I also did recently.
• 2:56
  I would have just let her spend it all if I'm being totally honest.
• 3:00
  So thank you from my four-year-old, Minnie and Vista.
• 3:03
  She's going to have the knowledge to be more financially independent
• 3:05
  than her mum ever was growing up and into adulthood.
• 3:09
  Keep doing what you're doing, ladies.
• 3:11
  You're making a difference, much beyond what you probably think.
• 3:14
  Many thanks, Emma, Olive's mum.
• 3:18
  So we read this email and we were just like, oh my goodness.
• 3:23
  Do you think Olive would speak to us?
• 3:24
  So we emailed Emma, you know what, she's on the podcast.
• 3:28
  We've got Olive ready to speak to as well.
• 3:30
  But Emma, just before we speak to Olive
• 3:32
  and we're going to ask her a few questions,
• 3:34
  can you just talk us through that email in a bit more detail?
• 3:37
  Like how did Olive start to be invested in money and investing?
• 3:42
  We'd love to get a bit more details with what actually happened.
• 3:45
  Okay, so we were going away for the weekend to the beach
• 3:49
  and this is a great push off of the beach
• 3:51
  and Olive asked me to put in,
• 3:55
  she'd recently been given some money from my father actually
• 3:59
  and so she had some money in her wallet
• 4:01
  and she was asking me to make sure that I had picked her wallet
• 4:04
  into her bag, which side no, I actually forgot to do.
• 4:09
  But classic parenting disaster.
• 4:13
  But she was asking me to pop her wallet into her bag
• 4:16
  to take away with her to the beach
• 4:18
  so that she could spend her money
• 4:20
  and I don't know how this conversation spiraled
• 4:23
  and we just started talking about what we do with money
• 4:27
  and how we could save some money for kind of,
• 4:30
  for bigger things she might want to purchase
• 4:33
  and how we'd invest some money.
• 4:34
  And I said it very offhand, not shortly, if you like.
• 4:38
  Like I didn't expect her to pick up on it.
• 4:40
  I didn't expect anything to come from the conversation
• 4:43
  and she kind of just got interested
• 4:44
  and asked a couple of questions
• 4:46
  and I was like, holy crap, she's four
• 4:48
  and she kind of gets a wee bit
• 4:51
  and that's when I realized I need to capitalize on this
• 4:54
  and then you start teaching her stuff.
• 4:57
  And before we chat to Moema about your relationship
• 5:02
  with money and what's happened with Olive, do you think?
• 5:04
  Cause I know it's her bedtime shortly.
• 5:05
  Can we get her on to just have a quick little chat to her
• 5:09
  and then we'll come back and talk more about it?
• 5:12
  Yeah, absolutely, we can grab her.
• 5:16
  Okay, now Olive has your mummy told you anything
• 5:19
  about who we are or why we wanted to talk to you today.
• 5:22
  What did I tell you?
• 5:23
  I told you that they were mummies, really?
• 5:25
  And you've listened to Vic and Sophie in the car
• 5:28
  on the radio, haven't you?
• 5:30
  Yeah, did you hear them talking?
• 5:32
  Yeah.
• 5:32
  And we may have had to have changed the channel
• 5:34
  at some points.
• 5:35
  Can we have conversations?
• 5:37
  Sorry about that.
• 5:39
  Sorry, Olive.
• 5:41
  Sorry.
• 5:42
  We'll try and be a little bit more well-behaved in the future.
• 5:46
  Olive, you're my favourite listener.
• 5:47
  I'm so happy that you listen.
• 5:50
  And your mum has told us all about some fun conversations
• 5:54
  that you've had about money and about investing.
• 5:58
  And I'd love to know, have you ever seen money?
• 6:02
  Do you ever had your own?
• 6:04
  Yes.
• 6:05
  How do you get your money?
• 6:06
  Where does your money come from?
• 6:08
  Grandpa and Grandma in the bank.
• 6:10
  Ah, I love that.
• 6:12
  Okay, that's really good to know.
• 6:14
  And have you ever used your money to buy anything?
• 6:17
  Do you remember buying anything before?
• 6:19
  Squish mellows.
• 6:20
  Squish mellows?
• 6:21
  What's that?
• 6:22
  That sounds yum.
• 6:24
  Do you eat them?
• 6:25
  No.
• 6:26
  Ah, silly.
• 6:27
  Can you tell us what they are?
• 6:29
  They're squishy babies.
• 6:31
  Cute.
• 6:32
  Do you put them in water or do you play with them or cuddle them?
• 6:35
  Cuddle them.
• 6:36
  Ah.
• 6:37
  Oh, so it's a toy.
• 6:38
  It's like a fluffy toy.
• 6:40
  Cute.
• 6:41
  Do you remember how much of your money, Olive, you spent on that?
• 6:44
  Do you know how many dollars it was?
• 6:46
  E-14.
• 6:47
  Wow, that's a lot of dollars.
• 6:50
  Yeah.
• 6:51
  Now, Olive, there's lots of things that we've loved to ask you about money.
• 6:55
  And just ask a few things about the things that Mummy's taught you
• 6:59
  or that you might have heard from the podcast.
• 7:01
  Is it okay with you?
• 7:02
  Yes.
• 7:03
  Okay, amazing.
• 7:04
  Okay, Olive, if you could use one word to describe money, what would you use?
• 7:10
  What's money for?
• 7:12
  Money for spending.
• 7:14
  I love that.
• 7:15
  Love that.
• 7:16
  That's a great word.
• 7:17
  And how does it feel when you receive your money from your grandma and grandpa?
• 7:23
  Do you like getting money from them?
• 7:25
  Yes.
• 7:26
  Yeah.
• 7:27
  And what do you do with it?
• 7:28
  When you get money from them, where do you put it?
• 7:30
  In the bank.
• 7:32
  In the bank?
• 7:33
  Sometimes.
• 7:34
  Where do you put it first?
• 7:35
  In my money box.
• 7:37
  Ah.
• 7:38
  Have you got like a little money box that you put your money in?
• 7:42
  What does it look like?
• 7:44
  It's a little hourly one.
• 7:46
  Is it close?
• 7:48
  I'd love to see it.
• 7:49
  Maybe it would be a new money box.
• 7:51
  Yeah.
• 7:52
  I'd love to see.
• 7:53
  I'd like to get your money box in a squish me a lot, so you can show it.
• 7:57
  Yes.
• 7:58
  Oh my goodness.
• 7:59
  Oh my gosh, Olive, that's so cool.
• 8:04
  So what's in here, Olive?
• 8:06
  What's in here?
• 8:07
  Money.
• 8:08
  Yeah?
• 8:09
  We were going to get your money from in here.
• 8:11
  Who gave?
• 8:12
  Who gave?
• 8:13
  Who gave that to you?
• 8:14
  Nanny and Papa.
• 8:15
  Nanny and Papa?
• 8:16
  Olive, I've got a question for you.
• 8:18
  Do you know what investing is?
• 8:21
  um, buying little bits of company. Oh my goodness. Buying a bit of a company. That is exactly
• 8:30
  what investing is and do you know what? There is a lot of people that don't even know that. So the
• 8:35
  fact that you know that and you're only four years old, your mum can be very proud of you.
• 8:41
  And what happens? Why do we want to buy little bits of companies? So money gets bigger.
• 8:47
  Exactly. So our money gets bigger. Yes, if you invest in the right companies,
• 8:53
  then your money gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And so by the time you're my age,
• 8:58
  you'll have have lots and lots of money and you'll be able to buy so many squish mellows.
• 9:05
  You won't even know what to do with them all. All of, do you know what you want to be when you grow up?
• 9:09
  In the Navy. Really? How fascinating. Yeah. Do you know what they do in the Navy?
• 9:18
  Nothing. Who's in the Navy? Mama. You were in the Navy. No, I am in the Navy.
• 9:25
  Oh my god. How cool. Yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. What does your dad do, Olive?
• 9:30
  Um, he's a fireman. Very, very pretty. Very clever parents.
• 9:35
  Yes. Very courageous parents there. And Olive, in terms of when you see your mum spending money,
• 9:42
  you know, if she's like paying for something for you or anything like that, do you ever talk about
• 9:47
  what you're spending? Do you understand how it works? You know how we have those cards
• 9:52
  and we tap them when we're buying something? Do you understand how those work? Do you understand
• 9:57
  when we're at the supermarket, you know how you take mum's card and you tap it on the screen?
• 10:01
  That's money going into the machine to pay for all of the groceries that we bought.
• 10:07
  You probably understand it more like when we go and buy toys. Usually you take money from
• 10:12
  your money box and you put your money after. So you get your money in your money box and we split
• 10:17
  it up. What do we split it up into? What does the money go into? Being some, say some, and
• 10:25
  in the sun. Good girl. Yeah. Wow. And then we get the pile of money that's got the
• 10:34
  spending pile and where do we put that money? The bank. No, you put it, yes, the saving stuff
• 10:40
  goes in the bank, but the stuff that you want to spend when you go to the shop, where do you put it?
• 10:43
  You put it into your wallet. Yes, so you put it in your wallet and then when you get to the
• 10:49
  counter and the lady or man at the counter takes the toy. What do you give them? Money. Yeah,
• 10:56
  you give them money and then we can take the toy home because you're paid for it. And then
• 11:00
  what about the other two piles of money? What do we do with those other two piles of money?
• 11:03
  Where do we take them? Into the bank. That's right. It goes into the bank and then when it goes on
• 11:11
  mummies computer, we put some into your savings and we put some into your, what's the other
• 11:16
  investing and what do we invest in? Stucks. Yeah. She's like mummy, I want to go to bed.
• 11:23
  Yeah, yeah. She's like my teacher span is gone. Hey, Olaf, can I ask you one more quick question
• 11:29
  and then you can totally go and rest your eyes because I know it's late for you. If you had all the
• 11:36
  money that you could ever want, so you had lots of money in your wallet, what do you think you
• 11:40
  would want to do with that money? What would you buy? It's Christmas. This is not indoors
• 11:50
  by scratchmallows, I promise. Hey, Olaf, thank you so much for staying up past your bedtime.
• 11:55
  I know it's late for you. What do you say you want to say bye? Bye. Bye, Olaf, thank you so much.
• 12:03
  Bye. We'll try be not so naughty on the podcast. Oh my goodness, she is absolutely adorable. I
• 12:12
  sometimes don't know how mothers do anything but just like sit and look at their kids and just want
• 12:17
  to squeeze them all day and hug them. I think that's why people put so many photos on like social media
• 12:23
  because they're just like obsessed with them, you know, and fair enough to bloody adorable.
• 12:29
  Emma, can we chat to you? I know Olaf's not gone to bed, but I'd love to talk to you more about
• 12:35
  your relationship with money and how you found the curve and what it's been like having these
• 12:39
  conversations with Olaf so young, which I imagine is probably quite different to your childhood
• 12:46
  and how you grew up learning about money. I'd love to hear for you like before having kids and
• 12:52
  as you grew up what your relationship with money was like and how I guess over the last few years
• 12:57
  probably that started to change a bit as you've learnt more about money and investing.
• 13:01
  Yeah, absolutely. I think that pre-kids I didn't really realise how much of a disposable income
• 13:08
  that I have had and I definitely treated it as disposable. Growing up like I had a what you'd
• 13:15
  call a privileged upbringing, I guess like I never wanted for anything but money was definitely
• 13:22
  never talked about. Both my parents worked really hard and still do and so I guess I experienced
• 13:28
  money by, if you work hard, you get money, you spend money and you sustain your lifestyle,
• 13:35
  like there wasn't a future focus that I experienced anyway or have talked to my parents about.
• 13:42
  So I never really thought actually about my first money memories until I did your money,
• 13:49
  your reset course and that activity to prompt you to kind of think about how what you do now
• 13:57
  is impacted by what's happened to in the past around money and so that was really interesting
• 14:03
  for me because I think I have a lot of guilt around spending money on myself or actually just
• 14:08
  spending money full stop like I really weigh up the options which is great in that it's made me
• 14:13
  quite a good saver but it also I think it has its origins and kind of mum and I would go shopping
• 14:20
  and it would always be like oh don't tell your dad what we bought kind of thing or the packages would
• 14:24
  arrive and you'd sort of shuffle them in the door and pretend like you've owned them for ages
• 14:29
  and I think it was probably reflective of the time like mum always had her own money, it wasn't like
• 14:33
  she needed to hide anything from dad but it was just I guess not the done thing to kind of be
• 14:39
  happy and proud of what you'd purchased. I didn't realise that you'd done the money reset course
• 14:44
  by the way. How crazy is that like first reflecting on your own money stories and money memories?
• 14:52
  I was really confronted by what I found out and you totally don't need to share anything if you
• 14:58
  don't feel comfortable but well what were some of the things that that did come up for you?
• 15:03
  I mean like I'll I'm going to start just to hopefully like break the ice but like my first money
• 15:07
  memory was stealing like I stole from a fairy shop when I was five and I was like my my mum was
• 15:13
  like what's in your party back and I was like nothing I mean I got fully found out and had to take
• 15:18
  it back and it was so confronting for me starting to realise that stuff but also very healing and
• 15:24
  then changed the way that I now think about and relate to money. Did anything come up for you when
• 15:29
  you were doing some of the earlier modules and the course reflecting on your own experiences?
• 15:35
  Yeah I think definitely there was a fear around losing money and a fear around spending money
• 15:43
  so one one thing that I was reflecting on when I was asked the question and I hadn't come up for
• 15:49
  years like I hadn't thought about this for years and years but I remember I don't know if you guys
• 15:53
  ever did the 40 hour famine and you you know ate barley sugars for 40 hours and raised money
• 15:59
  for world vision which is still I think going strong and you eat heaps before you go in yeah
• 16:04
  which is the worst idea ever like I used to have parties when people come over and like eat a whole
• 16:09
  lot of food before you go to famine it's like that's the worst idea because I think now they just
• 16:13
  do like a social media break for 40 hours which is probably more painful but for me I remember
• 16:19
  collecting all the money from friends and family and I lost some or it didn't balance
• 16:24
  and we had this little check book kind of thing we wrote how much money you'd you'd go from
• 16:29
  your friends and family to take in and it didn't add up and I remember just being distraught
• 16:35
  that I'd lost money and my parents were kind of giving me the third degree a bit about where
• 16:41
  this money had gone and I wasn't like I wasn't a kid lost stuff so or I'd done the addition wrongs
• 16:46
  it just it wasn't adding up and I was just terrified of not having this money that I promised to give
• 16:54
  and so yeah it was definitely like a fear if that makes sense and then just a fear around spending
• 17:01
  money in terms of the guilt and like having to kind of hide purchases I guess just copying mum
• 17:09
  when she'd use her credit card and then say oh don't tell dad kind of thing I think she's probably
• 17:15
  joking but I just yeah it's so interesting like I like when you're saying about how you're the
• 17:21
  more you earn the more you can spend kind of thing like that was also like a memory like a
• 17:25
  household I think I like on reflection just as you were saying that I was like I reckon it's the
• 17:29
  same in my household I had two working parents and it was very much a case of you worked to afford
• 17:35
  things to buy things to spend and like yes there was this investing in saving for rainy day but it was
• 17:41
  the more mentality was like the harder you worked the better your pay or salary or job the better
• 17:47
  lifestyle you could have which is inherently correct in the sense but and then I think my earliest
• 17:52
  memory was I was cutting mum's rosemary bush to go down to mission bay to sell rosemary so I was
• 18:00
  being resourceful and I was like if I want my own money and I want my own lifestyle I'm gonna have
• 18:04
  to make my own money and so even to this day I remember when I quit my job to start the cure my
• 18:09
  parents were absolutely shocked they're like you've got a good job you've worked your way up
• 18:14
  why on earth are you now leaving okay it was just I think it's that old school mentality of like
• 18:19
  if you can be resourceful use your skills to get better and better you have more money and then
• 18:25
  the afterthought it's also do not be risky yeah and I think that you know like I remember when I
• 18:33
  wanted to leave my job in Sydney and I was earning really good money and I was wanting to go
• 18:38
  travelling and I stupidly I don't know honestly what I mean I adore my grandma but I don't
• 18:44
  know why I called her to talk to her about it I think I just missed her and I called her and she was
• 18:48
  like oh absolutely not why would you do that so that's a terrible and I and it spiraled me as you
• 18:54
  can imagine because obviously you really admire your parents and your grandparents but I totally
• 19:01
  agree with you Vic and also in there I think there's this like generational fear and I don't know
• 19:05
  maybe it's like come down from the war as well and like having to ration and not having
• 19:10
  enough and there's maybe elements of of the depression and things like that from our grandparents
• 19:15
  that have like trickled down and from generation to generation it's quite fear-based and so
• 19:21
  when you then start to look at that it's yeah it's kind of scary to think how it's such
• 19:28
  learnt behaviour and then when it comes down to parenting olive to try and not make her feel more
• 19:34
  fearful so like you know if she was to lose money or something like that happens it's just
• 19:39
  thinking about like okay how can I not instill more more fear into her around this or
• 19:46
  and I can't even imagine what kind of a minefield that must be as a parent but yeah like do you
• 19:51
  do notice yourself I guess after you reflected from the money reset on things that you and yourself
• 19:57
  grew up believing about money have you tried to almost like rectify or do that differently
• 20:02
  with olive yeah yeah 100 percent I think that I try and kind of with the language that I use
• 20:11
  around money try and be quite purposeful with it and you know it's it's always a quick answer when
• 20:17
  kids say that they want something because they always want something to say no it's too much money
• 20:22
  or no we kind of thought that rather trying to say that's not our priority or we're not prioritising
• 20:28
  our spend on that right now or we went shopping last weekend why don't we go to the park and go
• 20:33
  to the pools this weekend instead because it was boring to shop all the time so it's kind of I love
• 20:39
  that making sure that the language that I use is not crucifying money I guess it's a really it's
• 20:46
  a useful thing it's a means to an end and it's a source of fun and enjoyment yeah love that they
• 20:51
  can be proud and happy of the stuff that they've bought um we had an interesting situation the other
• 20:56
  day with olive where she bought a toy with um wait let me guess let me guess what kind of what was
• 21:03
  it a squish smell it wasn't a squish smell it wasn't a squish smell it wasn't a squish smell it was
• 21:07
  this toaster that you pushed down the toaster and the um and it was some zero contraction in the
• 21:13
  the toy pops out the top um but it had a really strong smell it was like a baked cookie thing um but
• 21:21
  she regretted purchasing it and I'd never seen her do that before what did she say she just said
• 21:27
  I don't I don't want this anymore can we take it back and that sort of started a whole conversation
• 21:33
  around how money is finite so I don't think she understood and this was where it clicked for her
• 21:38
  that once you've given over your money and you've got something in return your money's gone
• 21:44
  unless you're putting it into something that makes your money grow and um so she was kind of like
• 21:50
  okay so we don't take it back and I said well you can give it away if you don't want it anymore
• 21:54
  we can give it to a friend or give it away and she said oh maybe we'll just put it on the shelf
• 21:58
  for now and I'll think about it so yeah she definitely hats off to you for even like explaining
• 22:06
  that and not just like and I get it like a lot of parents are very time poor and yeah don't have
• 22:12
  the time to explain things or a stress or whatever the situation is and so they kind of dismiss
• 22:17
  those conversations but little do they know those even just the tiniest little bit of an explanation
• 22:23
  to her of like money is finite that will stick with her forever and she will now learn you know
• 22:30
  I pick up the smallest things and it's so funny because so far and I had done a last night and
• 22:34
  we were talking about how how parents have started to talk to kids like adults you know it's not like
• 22:39
  no you're not allowed it's like no we can't do that because or let me explain why that kind of
• 22:46
  thing it's like no you can't return this because money is finite it's not like no you should have
• 22:51
  made a bit of decision you know it's kind of you're talking to kids and you're trying to treat them
• 22:56
  like adults and even if they pick up only one percent of what you're explaining like at least
• 23:00
  it's something and so I think it's so important and now next time she buys something she'll be like
• 23:05
  do I actually really want this otherwise it's going to sit on the shelf and I won't be able to
• 23:09
  get that money back and yeah I think congrats to you for even having those conversations
• 23:14
  because a lot of parents will also think my kids are too young to understand and if there's anything
• 23:21
  I've learned from Anderson if you they pick up way more than you realize and they have memories
• 23:28
  like elephants like they remember everything and every detail and I noticed the difference
• 23:33
  between all of their brother there's 14 months between them and he had a right tantrum the other
• 23:38
  weekend because we did the thing that we do and we split up literally split up their money into
• 23:43
  three piles and then we go and spend one of the piles you know every so often or when there's
• 23:48
  something they really want and he did not understand the concept of not having it all like he wanted
• 23:56
  every one of those coins to be able to spend on hot wheels that was totally his drive but all of
• 24:02
  had no issue she was just like no that's what we do like it was second nature to her
• 24:06
  because we're done it's what I'm just saying yeah do you think that's because she's a year older
• 24:12
  or do you think it's done it for her for long the ride I think it's just being consistent with it
• 24:18
  and but every day's different like the next time we do it won't be completely different but I
• 24:23
  guess it's trying for me it's just trying to keep it super simple like I can't I don't know
• 24:29
  enough to make it complicated and she she doesn't want it to be complicated so for our family
• 24:35
  that's the only thing that we've we've come up with so far and I'm no expert so we're just
• 24:40
  trial and error over here do you think that your money habits or your relationship or conversation
• 24:46
  that you have with money has changed because you've got children and you're very aware of how
• 24:51
  that narrative like you were saying before with with your mother and she would hide the purchases
• 24:56
  and like are you way more conscious now in terms of your spending your saving your investing
• 25:00
  because you've got children absolutely I'm way more conscious of everything since having kids
• 25:06
  it's like having a little shadow around watching your every move and it doesn't matter what you say
• 25:11
  it's what you do that they they're gonna take away so yeah I mean and honestly before and before
• 25:19
  listening to you guys I would have just let her spend it all like this is not this does not come
• 25:24
  natural to me this concept of not spending the money that you have I've always saved a wee bit
• 25:31
  certainly never invested and it just wouldn't I wouldn't have even clicked in my brain to have
• 25:37
  that conversation with her so I mean my kids are not going to grow up with trust funds so the best
• 25:44
  that I can give them is some financial literacy to take forward really which is really
• 25:53
  um quite emotional like the fact that I mean I don't know I'm sure there's been many people
• 25:59
  that like you've listened to and learned from and stuff but like to hear that olives life and the
• 26:05
  way she grows up and relates to money will be so much more positive than what I had and I think
• 26:11
  having to reverse that all three of us I mean particularly probably Emma and I maybe not so much
• 26:16
  but like the the amount of work that it takes to get to like 30 or however odd you are to start to
• 26:22
  like understand your money stories understand your spending habits is so much harder to turn around
• 26:29
  than if you start a certain way and to think that olives life and the way she relates to money and
• 26:35
  and probably like how much you'll have and the things she'll be able to do is coming back to the
• 26:39
  fact that you're now able to teach her that because of like listening to the curve and I'm sure
• 26:44
  lots of other amazing platforms that you engage with but like that's pretty incredible that's
• 26:49
  incredible for you guys as well you should be proud of that because like literally I'm not
• 26:54
  just saying that because I'm on your podcast like you should be proud of that because you have
• 26:59
  played a massive part in the way that I view money and that I can teach her about and when
• 27:05
  when you you always talk about time in the market and that resonated with me for her because they
• 27:11
  thought well holy heck she's gonna have a hell of a lot of time in the market if I can get her in
• 27:16
  now so that made investing for me is more important for her than it is for me which is a little bit
• 27:24
  weird I guess it's a parenting thing we you'd want them to be better than you and so I just kind of
• 27:30
  think well if she gets ahead start imagine where she could be and if it can increase options for her
• 27:37
  that's that's all I can hope for if she doesn't have to do a certain job she doesn't want to do
• 27:42
  because she sees another way then that's pretty awesome I think your kids are going to be way more
• 27:50
  rich from the knowledge you've given them than any trust fund child I swear yeah honestly yeah
• 27:58
  it's like that whole leader why does it leader horse to water no teacher give her give someone
• 28:03
  oh yeah i'm gonna stop it's give them like give a fisherman a rod or something rather than a fish
• 28:10
  yeah it's like rather than giving her a trust fund you're giving her all of the tools to actually
• 28:15
  create her own little trust fund do you um do you and your partner talk about money a lot or like
• 28:23
  you know since you've done a bit of work on your own like money stories on the Seniors you're
• 28:28
  spending habits did you do that together or did you share it with him like I think how did that
• 28:32
  all play out it's definitely been my own journey um and not that he's not interested he just
• 28:41
  probably isn't as interested as I am he's more than like he's more more than happy for me to
• 28:46
  sort the family finances I guess we um we have definitely a 50 50 relationship in everything and
• 28:53
  always have we've been all in right from the get go and he is as much a parent and a partner
• 29:01
  as as I am but I definitely pay more attention to the finances than he does which which I'm
• 29:08
  happy with but um but yeah it's it's been it's always been like that yeah I would say so I think
• 29:14
  we both have a similar mindset around um I don't know it's not an abundance mindset but more
• 29:21
  there'll always be enough like something well I don't know where it comes from but it'll be okay
• 29:26
  that's so lovely and I don't oh I wish I had that and I don't know so do I'm saying yeah no
• 29:32
  no not quite do I'm saying and we've had loads of stuff happen that has been um life alteringly
• 29:39
  changing your financial situation so it doesn't necessarily always be okay but it kind of comes
• 29:44
  out in the wash and if you've got a a team attitude on it then that's really helpful but in terms
• 29:50
  of learning about investing classic difference between the two of us so Greg's fray into investing
• 29:58
  is to jump on share z's with his mates and have a competition to see who can invest in the right
• 30:03
  companies and just completely stock picking and just making it up on the fly doing terribly
• 30:10
  buying and selling try to just you know so interesting I think I will listen to this and be like
• 30:15
  yeah that's not true I make really stupid decisions and I'm like no no no I'm going to go back to
• 30:21
  the start of the curve diligently listen to everyone of their podcasts and be really boring and
• 30:27
  dollar cost average in ETFs like it's just a completely different but I think there's a real
• 30:35
  feminine approach as well like I this every time I meet someone that's like oh I want to learn
• 30:39
  about investing I'm like look this is going to sound very self-promote but like I knew nothing
• 30:44
  go back to the beginning of our podcast and if anyone's listening in your new and your feelings
• 30:48
  still a little bit like I don't really have the basics like I would say the first like 50 episodes
• 30:55
  basics you know and and for me like that was the only way that I could get to a place where I had
• 31:00
  the confidence even like into the conversational start to invest and yeah and not all women are all
• 31:06
  men would invest or learn in the same way but what I've noticed from our community definitely is
• 31:12
  the more that you learn more confident you are and it's not just like chuck you know it's like
• 31:18
  would say dark to the dark board kind of situation it's like no no I want to know how I can get the
• 31:21
  bulls eye yeah absolutely yeah it's like really consistent for feminine learning yeah I'm intrigued
• 31:27
  to know what was going on in your life at the point when you were like I need to learn about this
• 31:33
  and how did you find the curve you know like can you just talk us through that that journey
• 31:39
  um so I think I found you guys in 2022 and I had just had my third baby and I was back at work
• 31:51
  called on how many babies do you have so um our first baby Walter passed away just before he turned
• 31:56
  to and then we had all over and then we had Arthur so um so that's what I mean like I've been
• 32:03
  out of the job market three times three lots of maternity leave wrecks havoc on your career
• 32:10
  and havoc on your finances careful that with a husband who has made multiple different career
• 32:16
  decisions so between us we've been kind of on and off one income for sort of seven or eight years
• 32:22
  um so we've had sort of varying degrees of success so I'm definitely a proponent of your emergency
• 32:27
  fund idea I didn't have one back when I needed one so we've got one now um but yeah so I found
• 32:34
  you guys in 2022 and I think I I feel like I was listening to a Mover Mama podcast and oh yeah
• 32:45
  and Jess must have talked about you guys and whatever she said they're so lovely remember we spoke
• 32:51
  to them that yeah yeah yeah that's right that's what I got yeah yeah yeah so I heard that and I
• 32:57
  thought oh I think these girls quite interesting I could I could tune into this and I'd never really
• 33:02
  been into podcasts before to be honest um I'm a little bit slow with technological advancement um but
• 33:08
  I tried you guys out test the waters and I don't know it's hey do and then I left that
• 33:14
  I thought no this is pretty interesting and just think your approach in terms of being super easy
• 33:23
  to listen to and finding out as much about you guys are somewhat living vicariously through you
• 33:28
  you were doing some really exciting stuff and I guess I was at home in between working full time
• 33:34
  and having babies um so that was pretty cool but uh I think you said in some of those podcasts
• 33:40
  if you want to learn more or you keep referring back to previous episodes and so I thought right
• 33:45
  I'm gonna do this from the beginning so I remember going for walks around um Trent the military
• 33:50
  camp in Wellington and um I'd be listening to you guys on podcast and then I downloaded a bunch
• 33:56
  I went to see in 2022 for about I don't know a month or so and I downloaded a bunch your podcast
• 34:02
  and I would lie in my my pet night and listen to you guys and it was nice because it was like having
• 34:07
  your friends um just have a young oh my god this is so cool Emma so that was it's so
• 34:15
  weird and boring but yeah no it's not weird and boring at all it's honestly like I can't believe
• 34:19
  we haven't yeah I can't believe we haven't done this sooner like speaking to people from the
• 34:23
  community and like hearing their stories I think oh my god lol I'm excited to cry
• 34:28
  I'm just like it's it's like we get messages all the time and it's lovely and we love
• 34:34
  receiving them like emails, DMs you know all of that but actually like hearing it from someone
• 34:41
  and like how yeah I don't know it's just like we've just started this jumping into a room talking
• 34:46
  shit and like the fact that someone like yourself has listened and like actually implemented what we
• 34:54
  say it also kind of scary but um but it's like incredible and it just like it kind of breaks my
• 35:04
  heart that there's people out there that are probably still like you were or you know even worse off
• 35:10
  that just have have no idea or no idea where to go and yeah it's just yeah no it's but also I
• 35:17
  think congrats to you because it is a lot of people say they want to change their financial future
• 35:23
  and they want to make a difference and they know that they don't know this stuff but they don't
• 35:27
  do anything about it and I think the fact that you actually put aside the time and learned and
• 35:31
  now your kids are going to have a better life and like oh it's just like because I actually think
• 35:35
  it's quite easy to it's easy to say like I want to be fit or I want to do this or I want to whatever
• 35:41
  but like yeah you're right that you really do have to put in the money like it's yeah it's it's
• 35:46
  it's it's and it takes a while and I and I think that if I hadn't been forced to sit in a room and
• 35:51
  listen to it yeah well I don't know I just think there's such a commitment that comes and it's
• 36:00
  it's every day as well it's not just like a once-off like and you're done it's a constant learning
• 36:05
  and like it's like a new skill self-awareness it's like anything takes time to get good at and it's
• 36:12
  like what we're trying to do is make it interesting and make it fun and not boring so you don't give up
• 36:18
  so that you do put in the effort and the commitments because you want to and because you can see
• 36:24
  the the the light at the end of the tunnel you can see the reward you know it's like that's
• 36:28
  what we want people are we all crying because you just wipe your eyes like this is a little
• 36:34
  for a dance yeah I just think that if you can also like just getting a shit in one sock like was
• 36:44
  a big part of it because I knew what I sort of knew what was coming in and what was going out for
• 36:50
  both of us and my husband and I have always had joint finances for better or worse there's no
• 36:55
  prenup we didn't do any of that stuff sorry things come in things go out but I wasn't across it
• 37:01
  enough as I needed to be because this is important stuff and so kind of just taking a moment to
• 37:07
  reflect look back I'm not the best budgeter but looking back budgeting is all right it's a bit
• 37:12
  like writing a food diary kind of thing I just that's not me but I can look back in the
• 37:18
  pictures yeah yeah it's been able to see where the money's going and coming from it's been
• 37:25
  making more conscious decisions I think when it's coming in and out and you have no idea what
• 37:29
  you're spending it on where it's going or coming it's like there's no control and I think taking
• 37:35
  back that control and having oversight and the ability to change the direction is is definitely
• 37:43
  is definitely key if you want to get it in sorting out all those little things like
• 37:48
  insurances and and money that you just over time especially when you have loads of disposal
• 37:53
  income pre kids you sign up to all this stuff and then you realize I'm not using it why do I still
• 37:59
  do that why am I still insured like this why am I purchasing that like it doesn't feature in what
• 38:05
  I want my life to look like and so having time to just kind of look at that and change it up
• 38:10
  yeah and I guess for you I'd love to know like as you can you know with first having like your
• 38:16
  first baby it was finances at that time something you thought about yeah to take decisions or anything
• 38:22
  or was it kind of yeah absolutely I think just a plug for parenting by the way you you'll never
• 38:28
  have enough money your car will never be big enough your house will never be big enough or
• 38:32
  have enough bathrooms sometimes you just got to take a little bit of it I love that it's so true
• 38:38
  it's like you always you'll make it work yeah absolutely where was I when I first had a baby I think
• 38:50
  the thing that dictated for me being a working parent was looking at how long I had for
• 38:55
  maternity leave and that there was a real undertone or driver to get back to work to keep earning money
• 39:02
  to kind of fund for the lifestyle and that you talk a little bit about what it is to be in the Navy
• 39:07
  I don't even know so I'm a logistics officer in the Navy when I'm at sea I don't drive the ship
• 39:14
  or fix the engine I just do all the other stuff and make sure that the ship's got everything that
• 39:18
  needs and the people have everything and that it needs to get from A to B and then when I'm
• 39:22
  assured do all kinds of jobs at the moment I'm a career manager for a couple hundred people
• 39:28
  so yeah super varied but did you feel appreciated to get back to work because there's you know
• 39:33
  like scarcity of jobs or like how did that play out so I think it played out in a number of ways so
• 39:39
  at the time we were living in a Navy house so I don't know if you know about military kind of
• 39:43
  housing so at that time we had some subsidized housing through the Navy it wasn't it wasn't super
• 39:49
  cheap but it was cheaper than market rent if you like so I was so we're in a Navy house and so that
• 39:56
  kind of dictated a little bit in terms of getting back back into work if you like but I mean we have
• 40:02
  a standard kind of 12 months off maternity leave but that's that's unpaid apart from what the
• 40:07
  government gives you so you know you're going to take a big hit to your salary to your savings
• 40:14
  to your investments over that time and I mean hats off to people who are doing that without a
• 40:19
  partner like I was lucky my husband at the time was teaching yeah I can't even well I can't
• 40:25
  imagine like I've been solo parenting for the last three months and and because I've always been
• 40:30
  the one to go away so my kids are used to not having me kind of every second week for a few days
• 40:36
  and I might go away for a few weeks at a time but I've never not had my husband which is I know
• 40:42
  really different to the usual kind of way it plays out in a man woman household but my kids had never
• 40:50
  had had one night away from my husband until the last three months but learning over the last
• 40:55
  three months what solo parenting is like like hats off because I don't know how how it happens
• 41:01
  and fiscally I don't that's hard really really hard some real big sacrifices and priorities have to
• 41:08
  be made for us I just knew that I I knew I wanted to go back to work firstly I think that was
• 41:14
  important to me to have that sense of achievement and drive but also financially I was super aware
• 41:20
  that I had to go back to work it wasn't really a choice well it wasn't not really a choice it really
• 41:26
  it wasn't a choice so at the end of the day it is what it is and and you make it work but that
• 41:32
  definitely the whole time I was on maternity leave you're kind of thinking about the fact that you
• 41:36
  have to go back to work and how are we going to make this work yeah can I ask it this is like not
• 41:41
  something I had planned or have written down but like can I ask a couple of questions I'd love to
• 41:46
  know what was the time in your life where you had a fuck moment with your money like was there a time
• 41:53
  where you were like wow oh my god how are we going to do this yeah this been two a trivial one when I
• 42:03
  was 19 and doing my OE I was in Europe on Kentucky needed to do a sky dive because you have to
• 42:14
  do a sky dive it's a once in a lifetime opportunity completely cleared my funds and made a call back
• 42:21
  to my parents I just remember telling them this is a once in a lifetime opportunity you have to
• 42:26
  fund this adventure for me um so that was nice because I had a safety net or someone sort of ring
• 42:32
  and dot wire through some money but I think probably um a more on a more serious note I think when
• 42:40
  we realized that so our first son was really ill really sick when he was about a year old and I
• 42:50
  think when we realized that one of us needed to quit their job to take care of him that was a real
• 42:57
  a hug moment and um and challenging for me as a mum realizing that at that point I was the bread
• 43:05
  winner so it made sense for me to keep working and so my husband quit his job and became the
• 43:11
  care for our son so that was probably I remember sitting bolt upright in bed one night and just
• 43:17
  coming to the realization that we can't both work but how are we going to make this work yeah
• 43:23
  and um that was really just a leap of faith fly by the CD of parents if I'm honest I don't think
• 43:29
  that we were financially prepared for that scenario I don't know that you can be um but
• 43:36
  and just through the help of family and friends I guess we got there and I think it just shows like
• 43:42
  I'm speaking for you but like now on reflection you must look back and go you know there's
• 43:48
  that sense of like everything always works out okay in terms of like financially you know
• 43:53
  like all those moments and honestly when you said the skydiving mine pretty much was exactly the same
• 43:58
  the trivial one and then I was I remember I was in um Brazil doing I could two month holiday
• 44:03
  with a friend and it was the last couple of weeks and I'd run out of money and I called my sister
• 44:08
  and I was like everyone was going it's not skydiving but the gliding gliding yeah yeah yeah
• 44:14
  oh yes yeah yeah and I was like I can't afford it I've run out of money I've got another two
• 44:18
  weeks and she was like just call mum and dad nothing for money I was like because she's just that's
• 44:22
  her way of you know yeah and I I was like I can't I cannot ask mum and dad and have the guilt of
• 44:29
  them knowing I didn't budget right and I didn't do this and they'll be like why did you run out of
• 44:33
  money and honestly I called them and they were like of course they're like you're in South America
• 44:39
  like there's no way we wouldn't lend you money you know it's not the safest yeah
• 44:43
  continent and so there's but like you said I'm very very privileged to be able to have that
• 44:49
  safety net yeah um yeah but yeah I think and then the other one for me I'm intrigued to know
• 44:54
  it yours is soft as well but the other one for me was when during COVID and I was employed
• 45:01
  and we got this phone call and we were all trying to work from home and I didn't know what was going
• 45:06
  on the world it was away from my family like it was just like yeah and I remember my boss being like
• 45:12
  if you get a call tomorrow you don't have your job anymore and I went and then he'd spend I was
• 45:19
  like I have a mortgage like yes I had emergency fund but I was like I have a mortgage I have like
• 45:24
  these plans and I was just like I don't even know like what what the world's gonna look like
• 45:28
  am I gonna be able to get another job and I just completely spiraled and I think on reflection
• 45:34
  from both the trouble and the non-trivial is that everything works out okay and it's like
• 45:41
  you're stronger than you realize you're more resourceful than you realize and I think it comes
• 45:47
  back to having that kind of abundance mindset and being like everything will be okay and eventually
• 45:51
  you attract that energy I think is yeah my mind's kind of different I must say I sort of disagree
• 45:58
  in the sense that like if you're someone who has had a shit load of times like that in terms of
• 46:05
  honestly like I could write a book about the amount of times that I have had like the most
• 46:11
  stressful money situations like it makes me actually feel really sad for my younger self because
• 46:18
  I yes I've always figured it out the amount of stress and anxiety that I have had to endure
• 46:25
  over the years because I haven't had the tools or the knowledge of how to have back stops just
• 46:31
  to prevent that from happening is like really sad actually and you know I I know that I am like
• 46:40
  fucking resilient with everything I know I'll be able to sort it out but I also would not wish
• 46:46
  that stress on like my worst enemy and I think that there's there's like something to be said for
• 46:52
  um and I don't know if like both I mean but you're very lucky to have had this educational
• 46:58
  or earlier in my order and often the last like five years maybe this has changed to be you but
• 47:04
  the way that I now view the back stops I put in place whether it's an if you fund or an emergency
• 47:10
  fund or investing like that is like self love for me you know like that's I'm I'm looking after
• 47:17
  myself and I think that the times it's taken away the whole I don't want to like put money aside
• 47:24
  because I want to use it now because because I felt that extreme stress around money like I've
• 47:31
  had to hop from house to house like trying to avoid paying rent I've like like the the amount of
• 47:37
  times that I've been like genius I mean I I actually went on the government support at one point
• 47:42
  when I came back to New Zealand during COVID because there was no jobs I didn't want to get a job
• 47:47
  it was like lockdown I was like living in an apartment by myself like that's a pretty scary and
• 47:54
  actually also I felt really embarrassed to have to like go on I think like what the doll you know
• 48:00
  but I was like I'd come back from traveling I didn't have a job I didn't know what the future
• 48:05
  like it was so scary and I didn't have backups and I didn't have emergency funds and so I think
• 48:11
  it's just such a privilege to have the knowledge to be able to look after and it doesn't mean I don't
• 48:15
  so have fucked up times where I'm like how am I doing this but it just and we probably all will
• 48:21
  have more fucked up times going forward yeah I just don't want a job want it to be like one of the
• 48:28
  yeah I think what I mean is it's like it's also shouldn't be normalized to feel that stress
• 48:31
  about money is what I mean is that you can avoid it like yes this things are unavoidable but also
• 48:38
  by doing what you've done Emma and like really put the time and energy into learning about how
• 48:42
  you can look after yourself more so that those times that you're like oh how are we going to do
• 48:47
  this are less turbulent it's like it's it's also comes down to the background organization
• 48:56
  so you can kind of have that it'll all be okay mindset when you know that you've got some
• 49:02
  like I'm definitely a proponent for just automate it like yeah so it's funny now so I've got accounts
• 49:10
  for just a few accounts for different things so one of them in particular is like our rates in
• 49:15
  our water bills it goes into one account so that I can pay out of that it's the weirdest thing
• 49:20
  now I'm like excited to get a rates bill because I know that the money is sitting there in an
• 49:25
  account ready to go so that stress is just gone away where that's a big bill to come in quarterly
• 49:31
  or monthly or whenever but to have that so I definitely think that if you get some of those
• 49:36
  systems in place then it can help with that and that's all I'm trying to do with the kids really
• 49:41
  with Olive is to to teach you that that it is that it's sort of second nature to her so that she
• 49:47
  doesn't have to think about it in the future and I don't know if it'll work I don't know if her
• 49:52
  little exuberant personality is going to track the same organized way that mine does but if I can
• 49:59
  try and with real consistency of effort get it get her to a place where that's just what we
• 50:05
  do yeah then hopefully she'll be in a better space than I was as a young person Emma thank you so
• 50:12
  much for coming on I yeah I can't believe that there's a next generation of little curve investors
• 50:21
  like the fact that it's helping our generation obviously a lot of us miss out on financial
• 50:26
  education and and that's been really like particularly for me like so problematic but the fact
• 50:32
  that the curve is helping you and now also your daughter like that is the most humbling amazing
• 50:38
  thing ever so thank you so much for emailing us and coming on the podcast thank you ladies for
• 50:44
  what you do because honestly I would have just told you to spend it all you know about the kind
• 50:50
  of things that you guys are talking about so so thank you for that that kind of knowledge thank you
• 50:56
  all great conversation yeah it's also so good it's great time and because our money reset courses
• 51:02
  is starting in a few weeks so like oh I think you've done that it's also amazing oh my god can we
• 51:08
  get a plug like what did you find it it was okay firstly it's made me think about how I think
• 51:18
  about money how I use money the feelings that money gives me I guess and why that isn't where that
• 51:24
  came from and then how I can put steps in place to make sure that I either catch myself or
• 51:31
  that I'm at least aware of what's going in and what's coming you know what's coming in what's
• 51:35
  going out and put some plans in place to kind of maximize the ends and reduce some of the
• 51:43
  but it's not about and I really think that you said it well when you talk about it's not about
• 51:49
  reducing your spend reducing your spend reducing your spend you can only reduce your spend so
• 51:53
  much especially when you've got kids so it's also about thinking about the other end of the equation
• 51:58
  hey what can I look around this playroom right now and sell that my kids not using anymore that
• 52:04
  I could you know we could purchase something else um love that how could I set up a little side
• 52:09
  hustle always had side hustles going when the kids were also maternity leave so um it's
• 52:14
  thinking about both sides of the equation and um I found that the money reset course really had
• 52:19
  everything in one place was super easy to follow and interesting like listening to a podcast super
• 52:25
  easy lesson so the lessons on money reset were the same super easy lesson sounds like we paid you
• 52:31
  I know we haven't we definitely have not paid not paid and this isn't so nice but I um squish
• 52:38
  mellows either this podcast no she's just an avid fan yeah yeah it was so fun I feel like we
• 52:46
  almost need to get a squish mellow is that length for the office for yeah just like a token
• 52:50
  with a great stress relief I tell you a good time we need some of the others thank you so much
• 52:57
  best rest of your Friday night thank you for taking it like to speak to us and um thanks
• 53:01
  thank you thank you thank you thank you so much for listening to raising the curve these
• 53:08
  conversations are designed to teach you everything that you need to know to be better with your money
• 53:13
  from saving to investing to talking to your friends about your salaries and if you'd like to
• 53:18
  what you heard we would love it if you could hit subscribe button please or leave a review
• 53:24
  at our own taste five seconds and it would really make our week oh yeah our month okay lots a lot
• 53:29
  see you soon bye