Latest / Unresolved Dependencies / #10 IN or OUT? MVP Renvewals 😱

Transcript

#10 IN or OUT? MVP Renvewals 😱 · Unresolved Dependencies

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming 'em, it's coming 'em, it's coming, footballs coming em, it's coming 'em, it's coming 'em, it's coming, football's coming 'em.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Can you feel it?
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I totally feel that.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And and clearly, I clearly I'm rubbish at predicting the results because I thought last time, was it DRC we were playing?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, yeah, we're not going to win this.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Congo.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: As they called it.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Congo, yeah.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: We beat Dr.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Congo.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we sent the Vikings back home, rowing back home.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so that was quite sort of fun.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I did quite like uh we'll put a link to it, but there was that, I don't know if you saw there's that one Norwegian fan who refused to do the rowing because and his and he and he had the most like I I know a few Norwegians like this, he had the most like um answer, almost German-like answering saying something like, Oh, oh, well, we didn't row across the Atlantic, we sailed, and that was his reason for not celebrating.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, so props to props to that guy, props to that guy.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: I really, really like him.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, very very staying with us with his rules, historically accurate, historical yeah, exactly.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely something uh you enjoy as a former history student.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like something like I can respect it.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: I can totally respect it.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, we're playing Argentina later.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so this is gonna be this is we're at cringe time now.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna lose.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, so very, very, very, very quick new episodes of Unresolved Dependencies, and then directly jumping onto the pitch, literally, for or going to the pop, I don't know where you're watching it, um, for England versus Argentina, the second semi-final of the World Cup, and we are searching for the opponent for Spain, who who beat surprisingly weak French team yesterday.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we are so I mean when this airs, um, we already know who wins the World Cup and if it's coming home.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: So let's see.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you have more to celebrate.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a German victory as well, as we'll as we've already discussed.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, we fully expect Germany's support in this endeavor, always.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Particularly if it means that we're yeah, yeah, we're gonna be beating the Spanish as well.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but I think so I would assume that you have more chances to beat the Spanish um than Argentina has.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: But Argentina has this like 12th man called Infantino, who was maybe figuring things out tonight and uh on the next fixture.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: But let's see.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: But speaking of countries, we've got to do the features, haven't we?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: We've got to do we gotta do Joe's travels.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of mandatory.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: You you're traveling to New York for the uh final match.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I should have to think how much that no, actually, no, I was actually forwarded um an email with cost for okay to go to the game, premium seats.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing uh quote marks here, so probably probably so just just just a bench somewhere, hotel, and I think shuttle buses.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to guess how much it was per person?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: For for the final or for general for the final 15 grand.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, pretty close.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was about, I think, 1200 bucks per person.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: 1200.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's quite a lot.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: So no fortune won't be going to New York uh as part of it, but do have some potentially interesting places to be going to.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so yeah, let's do the feature again.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no answers.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so we're just gonna keep trying.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm begging, we're literally begging you now to actually get involved here and give us an answer.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, hello at unresolveddependencies.com.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we do have a few listeners to the podcast, I know, because based on some of the messages and that I do receive.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: So please do get involved if you'd like to.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if you were uh curious, the the answer to the last clue uh was Port Logan in Scotland.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um so Logan being the name of Wolverine, obviously famous.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's great.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you see, yeah, yeah.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I was I spent a few a few days uh in Scotland uh uh recently.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that was very nice uh staying up there with some family.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that was really good.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, so that was the answer from last time.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the next destination I'm gonna be at, and if you wanted to get uh the answer to this, hello at Unresolve Dependencies.com.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's actually a place I'm gonna be going via.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um so this is a famous city, City of Love, uh uh well known for its many masterpieces, uh, and also for a particular landmark built by a civil engineer called Gustav, uh, who was also the subject of a song by the Pixies.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Where am I going to be next?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Let us know.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Hello at Thomasolfdependencies.com and we'll see if you can get a nice little shout out in the next episode.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Very nice.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I have literally no clue where you're going to.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I cannot even guess something we have.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Gustav sounds very Nordic, so maybe that's some some hint.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe, maybe.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's see.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see how people guess.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe as well, we need to introduce some some swag soon.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe after after the summer, need to bring some swag in to motivate people more to participate in your little game.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel we need to up a game a bit.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: We've committed to the feature.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we've done it for gosh, 10 episodes now, but yeah, I think we do need to have some sort of incentive.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: So let's see if we can it is the tenth episode.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: You've literally been with me for how could you forget?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Seriously, how could you forget?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel like more?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Does it feel like less?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: It it it feels like it feels like a hundred.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know what always makes you always always always uh feels like more whatever you're eating on your plate, which leads me very nicely across to Sebastian's eat.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: So Sebastian, what have you been eating this week?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And dying to know.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're dying to know.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: You will I will not let you down.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: So funny enough, um, I tried a I tried the meat, uh, the meal like a week ago or something, and then yesterday we had it again because it was so good.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's maybe one of um my fan favorites right now.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um basically it's a potato bowl.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you have letters.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Letches, is that the right word?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So let's basically yeah.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um on the bottom on the bottom of your bowl.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you you pick up just like a huge bowl or like a um yeah, bigger plate.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then on top of that, you do have um some potatoes.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: I um cut them into into little blocks and put in some um dressing on top of it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a mixture of olive oil, which I got at Potterush uh for Dynamics Minds, which I bought there.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this was definitely one of the cases or the reason why this was so tasty.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Then, of course, some salt and pepper, and as well as some um some spices on top of it.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I we decided for more more like a yeah, Mediterranean style of the potatoes.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Then we throw it into our bluffed air fryer, of course, for like 20 25 minutes.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Always gonna have the air fryer stuck in there, of course.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Always have it in, always snug it in.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if if there is a company out there who want to sponsor this as being air fryers, that's like perfect piece to do so.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so so that's that's like the base.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So you have letters, you have um potatoes, and then um what we did um there was some um meat.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So first time we tried it with with chicken, uh, second time you know tried it with ground beef.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was better in my opinion.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the chicken was also very nice.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: So both both variants worked well, maybe as well.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: It could work with fish or tofu, whatever is your preference.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then basically, on top of that, you have a wild um combination of um sour cream, which we made out of uh cheese and we already had a quark, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So some kind of yogurt, um, and then as well some guacamole and um as well some tomato salsa, and on top some cheese, and maybe some cheese sauce as well on top of it.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So overall it was more like a Mexican style bowl, I would say, like a burrito, but as mentioned, as a bowl with um some nice potatoes uh around, and this is like very nice, so it as well looks nice.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I I of course, as the food influencer I am now, um I took some pictures which I then definitely can share with uh you on Instagram.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, look very nice, tasted amazing, and it was so good we did it twice.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's always a good hint and a good um validation for for the meal if um we do it in a short time, a second time, and and then improve it more.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's kind of like because kartoffel salad is quite a popular dish in Germany, but usually it's cold, so it's kind of like you take them the cartoffel salad and make it pops.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Potato salad is something else, it's like poorly to uh potato um with um vinegar and oil and some other spices, and and that's it.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um if you do it with mayonnaise, you're that to me basically.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, do it.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that sounds like fighting talk to me.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, there's there's a line where like people do it up like on like in the north of the line, the dude with mayonnaise, and in the south, dude with vinegar and oil, and vinegar of all of oil is of course the right answer to that.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, my dad actually makes like the world's best potato salad for sure.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I um yeah, and the best thing, the potatoes are from his own little garden here.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's even better.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I'm all I'm all for potatoes, I'm half Irish, so you know potatoes are always gonna win for me.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I like what I like the twist that you've done with it in terms of like having a bit of meat on there.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's a good choice.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think our listeners are gonna be far more interested in seeing that than this uh this travel feature for sure.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll get it on, we'll get it onto the socials and uh we'll get people salivating over that.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I can then as well share the recipe, but it's it's quite easy.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, you throw in potatoes and then you top it off with everything what you think could um taste good or what you like.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very nice.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I like bowls, so it's a good it's a good fix, uh good mixture of like everything what you want to have and nothing what you don't want to have, and then you just like throw everything in, sauce on top, and then you're good.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: But you know what else is even better, cheesy exactly.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: But you know what else is making me salivate at the moment quite a lot.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, let me know.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: The co-pilot studio new experience.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that that would that was a segue experience and a half.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: See, see, I'm upping my game on this trunk.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, co-pilot studio new experience.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: There's been a bit of change there, hasn't there, Sebastian?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so maybe I can just bring everyone into the boat and then we can see which direction we go with this boat.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um, so so uh I think around build, uh Microsoft builds um started off around like four weeks ago, five weeks ago.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um Microsoft just dropped out of nowhere a new experience in Coupolet Studio, which was in preview and is still in preview.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you can now just go to Copolit Studio.microsoft.com, click on enable, and you have a new design.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: This then as well comes with like new interfaces like AgentOps is there for a little bit more governance in Copolis Studio.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: There is as well a very, very new jet chat experience which then builds you as well um basically the flow and the agent based on your requirements.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you have now something like your natural language-based um building uh or builder for that, and also um the whole workflow is experience got an overhaul.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was like slightly before build.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the speech flows we're talking about now, it's kind of the same as power to make it effectively just a nice new designer, isn't it?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Effectively, yeah, and then they are now called workflows, so they have a fancy new name.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as well, their interface more looks like if you for example used NHN or N8N, I don't know, whatever it's called, where you just drag and drop like different bubbles and and different components around and connect them and um throw in some connectors um to different other platforms and stuff like that.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It looks more like that now, so you can really build something that is um based on a sequence, which was possible before in Copilot Studio, with for example topics or instructions itself.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: But with Rockflow now, it is seems to be more um natural, and also, of course, there's a new interface for agents, um, so you can create new agents um inner classic, which is the old one, which is basically covering the topics, and the new one, which is um not having the topics anymore, um, but as well, it has new features like memory and also uh the support of skills, which we also talked about uh earlier in this podcast, but also it has some limitations, but also some different focus, I think, in terms of like what is the ultimate goal of that kind of agent.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, there's a couple of things that are interesting to kind of unpack on here.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, as you mentioned, it's sort of the you should get the option if you go into cut into copilotudio microsoft.com, you go into your environment, you should see the option there to basically switch over to the new experience.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have noticed it's not 100% kind of reliable.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: What seems to always force it, if you go to copilotstudio.preview.microsoft.com, then it kind of then automatically kind of appears on there.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the same.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So for any of the always remember if any of the power platform interfaces, make.power, smake.power automate.com, stick preview in there, you'll be able to get a bit of a sneak peek in terms of what's happening.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: So that's our kind of pro tip for today.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: So do that if you're having some issues there, because yeah, sometimes if you I've noticed if you enable it, you then can't go back to it after there's a turn-off.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: There's a turn-off, yeah, but but then the option then doesn't appear again unless you do it's it's a bit weird.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, just uh keep it now.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit weird.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think you need to do it, you need to innovate a little bit.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: It it usually appears lately in the next day or something, maybe it's cached or something, but you don't have a turn off, turn off, uh turn-on-turn-off uh switch button or something, or switch which you can just um happily switch around.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's more like you need to make a daily decision.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: And the second thing interesting, I think kind of alluded to it is that okay, if you create the agent in the new experience, try then to open it in the old experience, you're not going to have fun at all.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because um the understanding with this is uh I'm partly guessing here.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the it's a completely new architecture in terms of what they're using.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing that the new experience is using some foundry stuff, given that's where all the investments are going.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas the traditional copilot studio agents, it has a long history, used to be power virtual agents.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's using, I think, all the old bot old bot framework kind of stuff and all that, all that sort of stuff.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's kind of the reason why you can't switch between that very easily.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: So you you kind of have to decide and commit, really.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's how it is.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and you're you're at least right with the first guest that um it's a new engine.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I sort of state in the announcement, that um there is something else in the architectural background, that's why, for example, it can support memories, um, so it can kind of refer back to uh what you what have been there before in former uh conversations, and as well as support skills, which is kind of the cool kit on the block now.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then other things are more sticking to the bot framework, um, like for example, topics or then, for example, different types of knowledge sources um which are not yet there.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is day where we are recording this.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Also, to my defense, I'm currently on vacation, literally, and I have not looked at it the last three days.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, I whatever there is now, I have no idea.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Potentially, there is already something new the last three days, um, which we made changes to, but um Joe will be happy to jump in for that.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it seems to be pretty okay.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, new engine, new framework, new design, a lot of white space, of course.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Microsoft loves their white space.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so how how do you like it so far?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe do you already made up divide um advice when to use which kind of experience?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because there is no integration at the moment, there is no migrate migration path from the old to the new or vice versa.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I mean it's it's an interesting point because you know, in all the trainings and all of this sort of conversation we've been having, you know, regarding agents in the past 12 months, it's all been around this kind of okay, deterministic versus non-deterministic.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, do you when you build an agent, okay, there's certain kind of processes we want to have deterministic, where I'm literally going in and I'm okay, creating the conversation node, I'm creating the tool, the flow manually, and I've got full control over all of that versus non-deterministic, where you're just sort of uh you know, uh handing it off to a large language model and letting it determine it, you know, nine times out of ten, it should give you the same results.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: But there is that sort of suspicion there that it may end up giving you something that you don't expect that may not be desirable and things like that.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we we're kind of getting to a point where um, and Daniel Latkowicz will love me to say this, where where non-deterministic is dead, maybe, um, in terms of um, I wonder how long it's going to be, because it doesn't appear in the new experience where that we're able to, unless we go down the agent flow route, we're able to easily do as easily do these kind of deterministic kind of agents where okay, we can control the responses, you know, the concept, the traditional concepts that we've been familiar with from Copilot Studio for ages, like topics and all that sort of stuff, seem to be no longer relevant there, entities and all that sort of good stuff.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I don't know what your thoughts are on it, but we're moving more and more towards it being okay, non-deterministic is the way forward.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so I'm not sure if you if I if I talked about this here already or it was just a rant at one of the sessions I did at, for example, Carla Cloud is I don't I didn't want to build a chatbot which is potentially then just gets some AI-based language uh answer because it generates the words for your answer based on the data it searches for.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of I think that kind of bots or agents, they will live further, and they are required in in some cases, for example, on a website to really take a lead into the right direction, to not leak any internal data, to follow a certain railroad of conversation just to get something out, and I could as well see this in a productive scenario.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: For example, if you're creating a new opportunity, creating a new contract, creating a new applicant for your HR hiring, for whatever there is, there is definitely cases for that that it's just easier, more accessible to do it with some kind of agents or some that kind of agent which are more closer to to a chatbot, but it's just a little bit more intelligent.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think those those would live in in the classic experience, but then if we want to really talk about um agendic systems and I'm loading off tasks and I'm structuring that based on my business processes, and I potentially want to bring in some nice foundry features or maybe some orchestration in the future, I want to have some memory features where the question I get a lot where like you get this kind of oh yeah, and then it understands how we're working, and then we it kind of gets better over time.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it does not.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is like not how it works.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but with the memory feature, this seems to be like more realistic, I would say, and then as well, having um yeah, more straight up agentic approach to the different um uh to the to the requirement of the customer or the different needs of the customer.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is where it goes.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So your chatbots, your um teams chatbot, or your M35 co pilot chatbot where you basically want To you play this like question-answer game, or you have some knowledge source and SharePoint and you need to answer some questions against this, that's good to live either in M465 agent builder, or then, for example, in the classical studio.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: For example, if you want to have something that runs in the background that monitors your inbox, uh, sorts things out, um, that lives on a workflow, and then if you need an agent in between, you can just throw them in and have deeper and deeper, deeper, and uh better features, uh, I would say, and more functionality.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because this is also something which I figured out that there is there is no trigger from Power Automate anymore in the new experience.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's completely missing, but you can trigger them just from this new workflow experience I mentioned.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems to be like there's a new type of agents, I would say, a new cosmos of agents, um, which brings in their own ecosystem, which is then as well maybe more compliant or more fitting to the foundry offerings.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it feels like to me, and this is pure speculation on my part, you know, because for a while we've kind of had you know um you know GitHub and DevOps kind of you know staring each other down as kind of tools that kind of do the same kind of thing, but uh kind of just still be still there.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think the big expectation was that when Microsoft acquired GitHub, that yeah, you know, DevOps would go and it would all be using GitHub instead.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: But if it but it's you know it's been what six, seven years, if not six, seven.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um however long it's been.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry, sorry, had to do it, I had to do it, I had to do it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean my brain is literally broken.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, no, no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but anyway, yeah, so it kind of feels like we're gonna be maybe in a state where okay, you're gonna have the uh power virtual agent, agents, classic agents, however they want to call it, that's gonna be around for a while and this new sort of experience, but it is going to be probably a case that you're you're gonna have to really decide, okay, you know, which route you go down, and you know, where and it's gonna be clear, I think, in terms of where the investment's gonna be going moving forward, it's gonna be towards that new experience because foundry is where all the good stuff is happening on the Azure side, all the fun and interesting stuff.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think that as well for more complex scenarios, multi-agent frameworks or um new new favorite word in the AI community is uh harness.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not that this was um a word before in in the development cosmos, but now with agent harness or AI harness, it becomes a uh new life, and people are betting on that and swearing on that that like a harness is something you need to know, you need to have.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's fun that like um known terminology will be just re or reused in the AI space and then be like the latest shit basically.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's very fun, but yeah, uh this will happen on Foundry for sure.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: All right, um, I think as well we do have our second topic for today, which is um less technical but um not less important for at last at at least two of us here in this call.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to it's been a pretty it's that day of the year, and you need to brace your LinkedIn, you'll need to mute every every single account, MVP account that you sort of know.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: You'll need to just you know do a few of full detox.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: It is MVP renewal day.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um yes, today is the 15th of July where we're recording this, right before the England Argentina game, and as well today is where MVPs get renewed.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe Joe, you are so long in this program already, where I'm more like the newbie guy.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um kind of baby baby, baby MVP, the baby MVP, as you called me, like the first year.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um in a loving way, I hope to admit.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, would you like to then explain as well, like what are renewals and aren't am I not an MVP for lifetime of all the things I've done and how much people I brought closer to pressure operations and co-polit studios?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is this not the case?
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's that's that's not that's not how life that's not that's not how life works.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: You you don't get given everything on the silver plate, unfortunately.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So in terms of how the program sort of works, the award is um uh awarded for a single sort of year.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and if you're wanting then to kind of maintain that award, then you have to sort of go through a kind of a renewal process.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is where basically you have to sort of resubmit your kind of application, you have to talk about what good you've done in the community over the past sort of year, uh, and then there'll be a case that will then go through and be reviewed.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if you're lucky, you'll then get uh notified that yeah, you've been extended for another year.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: But the key thing is that yeah, you're not resting on your laurels.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the idea behind the award is that it's recognizing contributions that you've made, positive impact that you kind of made.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you know, that is kind of the the requirement to sort of you know remain in sort of the program.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, as so it's six years now for me in the program.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um six years first grade.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, six, six, seven, six, seven, you know.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um I couldn't resist, I could not resist.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally my brain is now literally programmed.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: As soon as I hear either the word six or seven, six, seven, I have to do it.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm sorry, this the TikTok or Insta, whatever you want to call it, it's just ruined my brain permanently.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just hope that like England win wins the World Cup, and you're you you have you have the chance to drink so much Guinness that just resets your fucking brain to like a non-version of like not looking at TikTok.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, this is what it is.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I have to deal with every day.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you have to deal with I'm literally uh literally messaging you every day on Teams uh 6767.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: What time are you in?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: 6767, what time?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exam, next seven.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but hey, contributions I think we we managed as we explained a little bit before, but this could be like anything from like blog posts, videos.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there are a lot of people now exploring as well YouTube because this is um yeah, one of my favorite as well, learning portals or learning pages, um, but also like speaking at events and organizing events, uh kudos to them because this is um incredible job to do.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so all of that basically gets into it, and then as well, um, how you develop how you um connect with the community, and I think we have good news in this case because um just a few minutes ago there is an email we received hot off the press, hot literally hot off the press.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not even it the the email is not even marked as read yet in my inbox.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, who wants to go first?
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I can happily go first.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm very uh humbled and honored, as they say.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, I've been renewed, it seems.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so a huge thank you to to Microsoft um for yeah, for thinking I'm still kind of sort of where we'd sort of continue.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and yeah, so that'll make it seven years now in the program.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty that's pretty cool.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty amazing.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, congratulations, you earned that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you traveled a lot for that.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you did good, buddy.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: You did well done, buddy.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: You did good.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did you get like your extra or like additional recognition for for traveling?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well let's all let's all comment on that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I have been very fortunate in terms of being able to travel, uh travel a lot and obviously have the support of uh my sort of employer pro mix in terms of helping to do that.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: So very grateful for these opportunities and yeah, hope to be able to continue contributing in the year ahead.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, we all want to know.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody cares about me.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: We want to know is are is Sebastian Sieber still an MVP?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, honored.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, very humble and honored.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you to everyone at Microsoft uh promix who makes this possible.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I have even better news because I have my um dual recognition back, which I lost somehow because I did not understand how the system works.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I lost it like just last year, so I got it back for AI ERP and Copilot Studio N, which is nice.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I fully committed to the AI hype train um on my side, um, leaving the power platform behind me.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Next next step is Azure, I would say, and then we will figure this out, the foundry and learn more about that.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: Just Empire Building, you're just growing and growing your portfolio until you cover every single product.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you know.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I better not do this.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh certainly not.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, I still there are some blind spots for sure as well for me.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and I think that's that's good as it is.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be an expert in everything, um, because then you're uh directly a master of none, and then I just want to stick with two, three things, um, get my head around it, and that's fine for me.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are so so many talent people in this community, and so so many knowledgeable people or in every product group or in every product category.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: So there is definitely someone um who knows um and is an expert in their field, and I will not challenge them to anything, I will not contribute to their monument of knowledge.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I will just stick with my bread and butter and be humble and honored in your um the rest of the day, and will be a bit happier because I'm always a bit nervous on these days, um, because you never know what happens.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it's um yeah, it's it's definitely um there's a lot of work that goes into sort of just trying to sort of do all this um yeah, behind the scenes.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of people I think who I yeah, I still feel today who have done 10 times more than what I could ever possibly sort of do.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so it's it it's definitely it's almost like a second job almost, I would sort of say.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it's it's but it's it's an enjoyable second job for me for sure.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you're doing this and you're not enjoying it, then you have to guess a question, you know, why you're doing it in the first place for sure.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, and and also something to mention that like the MvP award is more like a recognition, it's not like something, it's not a title, in my opinion.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like just a recognition that just, as you mentioned, renews you yearly, and there are as well circumstances that switch your priorities, switch to different sites, there is always live playing um its own games.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's pretty hard to maintain that, and huge respect and kudos to everyone who has done that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but as well for everyone who's just maybe not continuing in the program and keep your help up.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's maybe just a moment.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's mainly about your work um and your life, so it's definitely something to um not to be worried too much about.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's it's it's just a it's just a badge at the end of the day.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what I continually say to people is that okay, the the the enjoyable part is the journey for this.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I would I would throw away the award tomorrow, um, as long as I could just continue, you know, seeing getting involved in the opportunities, um, seeing the people, some very fantastic friends that I've made through the program, people who, you know, today are going to be seen, for example, next month going on holiday, seeing people, you know, this is this is where it's all it's about the connections and it's about the giving back.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the award is just a bit of a cherry in cake in the end.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think the the true award is or the true prize is the community because like I literally have so many countries, especially like Europe.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's like I think no country I cannot go to where I don't can mat with someone from the MVP community or from the community itself, um, which I can just crash and we have a beer with, or in some cases, even like um have her ever have a hotel for free, basically.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's pretty nice, and I think we are very in a very comfortable situation there.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think with that, Joseph, um, another another year, another 12 months of us on the MVP stages around the world in the program.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you do have questions for that, let me know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: We can surely elaborate more about that.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you think oh Jesus, please shut up about this, tell us as well.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm I'm is it is it not obvious that I want people to email us?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm literally, I'm literally begging you at this point, please send us an email.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or something else, whatever you prefer.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Something else, whatever you prefer, you know.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Just um Sebastian's very lonely, you know, so what can I say?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just I'm just I have a very stressful vacation.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: How can you how can your how can your vacation be stressful?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is that is uh so I can tell you, but it's like so today in the morning I went to the hair salon to get my hairs done and look nice and fresh for you for this new podcast episode, which I didn't mention in the past 35 minutes.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well I'm sorry, I'm sorry, your hair your hair looks great all the time anyway.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: And how is sitting in a in a in a barber's chair for 20 minutes stressful?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Please tell me.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: 35 minutes because my hair is um very special and it needs to be extra care.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I had to get up early because the appointment was at 8:30, so I had to get up early for that.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Then I had to rush home, get up uh and pick up the docs and go and drive to the vet because um one of them had her um teeth removed uh earlier this week.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I miscommunicated with my girlfriend yesterday that um she understood that I will go to the vet yesterday for the checkup, and I understood it in a way that she will call and let me know if I need to go because it was very much better yesterday.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to go there today.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Then there was a delivery of furniture for the new garden, which I'm working on with um some other people.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, at the moment they are mainly working on that, and I will join that club then once they are done.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're just project manager, just basically telling them what to do, and then at the moment I'm the project manager, and they tell me should this the should this be five meters or four point five meters, and I have no clue what I'm doing, and I'm just saying something, and then they will do it.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that will be yeah, 100% project manager on that.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sorry, so this was stressful then as well.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: There is um a lot of the dues um all around the place.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, stressful.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, we'll try we'll try and have a break, try and relax, try and do something fun and interesting.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Joe.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, don't worry about all this awesome.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: The fact that you're doing this podcast while you're on a holiday, I think, is obviously is props to you for some of doing that.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: So let's not disturb your holiday any further.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: Get back, enjoy, have a shot is all up, as they say.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, it'll be dinner now in a few moments.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, so there you go, perfect.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then watching the match and watching the match, fingers crossed.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'm I'm I'm actually cheering for England, so let's see.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hope I don't chinks it.
• 37:56
  unknown: Right.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Fingers crossed.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: With that, fingers crossed, see you then in two weeks.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Monday is the day for resolve your dependencies, but not ours.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we will figure it out.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Take care, like, comment, and subscribe.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: See you soon.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Joey.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, take care.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Another 12 month of us being MVPs and being not silent about it.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you so much.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye.