Latest / Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky / Being Yourself, Loudly: Max Cohen (aka MurrayHill boy) on Identity, Comedy & Belonging.

Transcript

Being Yourself, Loudly: Max Cohen (aka MurrayHill boy) on Identity, Comedy & Belonging. · Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky

• 0:00
  oh my God, this is my black mom. This is my Asian dad. This is my Jamaican aunt. Whenever I post those videos and they get 1 million, 2 million, 5 million views, there's not even 5 million Jews that are seeing it. Anyone you could think of who's not Jewish has found some of their family in the Jewish family I'm putting online.
• 0:16
  How much of your identity is shaped by you being Jewish? My career and my personal life and my Judaism, they're all just completely intertwined. If you had asked me before I started making videos, I'm Jewish, but I feel very rooted in my Judaism now. A lot of that is just the anti-Semitism that I dealt with personally when I first started posting, but also just deciding to launch a career in content with a Jewish star around my neck in a post-October 7th world.
• 0:43
  Welcome back to Tribe and Tribulations. I am Julia Makowski and I am so happy you are here. I am joined today with Max Cohen or if you know him better as Murray Hillboy. Today we are going to talk about some things that we don't normally talk about here on the podcast, but I want everyone to come with an open mind and an open heart because we are going to tackle all the things you want to hear.
• 1:12
  Through humor and nostalgia and some painfully accurate observations of the Jewish female,
• 1:20
  He's built a platform around the experience that connect us all. But behind the comedy is a bigger conversation about identity, belonging, and community and what that means to you. So welcome, Max Cohen. Thanks for having me. I loved that intro. Hello. Very grounded and meaningful. I like that. Yeah, yeah. I know you're used to like the humor aspect to it, but I am a therapist in real life. So I have to like at least bring a little bit of ground in. As you should.
• 1:46
  Yeah, I'm not making you like meditate. That's like a little too much for me. I don't do that stuff. My voices never stop. Welcome to my life. Welcome to my life. Okay. Max, you grew up actually as a Long Island boy. I didn't know that. Yes, ma'am. We can relate on that because now I moved to Long Island. I'm like learning all. Where are you?
• 2:06
  You don't have to tell the world. I'm in the Five Towns. Oh, so me. So, you know. I mean, I'm a big in the Five Towns, but yeah. I know. We talked about this for a second. He's not from the Five Towns, but he can pretend. I'm from East Rockaway, which for anyone who knows, it is the Sixth Town. It is. And that's that. What? What was that face?
• 2:28
  But honestly, most of the time I just say I'm from Hewlett. But you're literally two seconds away. You're like a stone's throw. Correct. Correct. What was Jewish like for you growing up?
• 2:38
  Um, we were somewhere in like the reformed world, leaning towards the conservative side of the reformed world. But I went to Hebrew school twice a week for 10 years. Well, more than me. Yeah. We were pretty good. Bar Mitzvah, you know, all the major Jewish holidays, like, you know, Shabbat, like very, very special occasions. I wish that I grew up in a family where that was a regular occurrence. It just simply wasn't with everyone's crazy schedules. Um...
• 3:05
  Went to a pretty mixed bag high school, a lot of Italians, a lot of Irish Catholics. Where'd you go to school? Lindbrook. Oh, okay. Which, like, no one really ever knows. So I know Lindbrook, but yes. So, like, I was friends, or I became friends, like, the 12, 14 other Jews in my grade. And, like, we found our Judaism within each other. But, yeah, for sure, lots of different groups going on in my graduating class there. Okay. How much of your identity is shaped by you being Jewish? Yeah.
• 3:35
  Well, I feel like that answer keeps changing the further and further I get into this career. If you had asked me before I started making videos, I'm like, I'm Jewish. I feel like, you know, it's have I found my purpose? Has my purpose found me? I don't know how you want to phrase it, but I feel very rooted in my Judaism now. And I think a lot of that is just the anti-Semitism that I dealt with personally when I first started posting, but also just deciding to launch a career in content with a Jewish star on my neck in a post-October 7th world.
• 4:04
  And just, you know, feeling an obligation to stand up for our people when it's needed, which it often is. But I mean, yeah, now it's crazy because my career and my personal life and my Judaism, they're all just completely intertwined. There really is no separating them now. It's so interesting because I find that a lot of people in content –
• 4:23
  Either you are owning your Jewishness or you're denying it. Right. It's like that, isn't it? It's very polarizing. It's like that. Because if you – in that post-October 7th world, you can't be one or the other. Like you have to be. You have to choose because –
• 4:41
  Unfortunately, we live in a world where there is so much anti-Semitism. There is so much hate. And your content is primarily, I would say, frat boy, Jewish humor, and like a little bit of sassy life that you're living now. Some personal rants. A little bit, just a smidge. And I do think that there is this
• 5:07
  concept within, I guess, content and in Hollywood in general, and now it's so blurred, all of this, that if you aren't taking a stance one direction or the other, you are pushed. That is taking a stance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is foolish. You know, I think that we all deserve to be multidimensional people. I'm Jewish and funny. I'm Jewish and a content creator. I'm Jewish. You know, and there's so many, the list should never stop.
• 5:35
  So I'm going to push back a little bit. Please do. If that's okay. Please do. So yes, you can be Jewish and Jewish and, but ultimately, if I'm being honest, Judaism is the root because you were reformed. You weren't necessarily leading with your Judaism out in the open, out in the world until you had to be, until you were. So as much as we say, okay, I'm not...
• 6:04
  I'm not so religious or I'm not – it didn't matter. It doesn't matter whether you keep Shabbos or you keep kosher or you do these things. Ultimately, your identity is a Jew. Right. Right.
• 6:14
  And I think that that's a lot of my content and followers are religious Jews. Right. So we come from different backgrounds, you and I. I grew up modern Orthodox and my husband grew up extremely religious in Brooklyn. And we've both grown differently. One of the things that we always find so interesting is that no matter what spectrum of Jew you are, ultimately your value system aligns.
• 6:43
  Correct. Right? Like there are just some things like kindness. That doesn't matter whether you are religious or not religious. That doesn't matter whether – like there are so many things like that. We're also very argumentative. Hell yeah.
• 6:57
  Like, I just think we're inherently questioning people. And I feel like that's with every joy I meet across the board. Like, it's like, what do you mean by that? And I didn't see it that way. And that's not what I think. And it's, you know, our way of talking is our, I mean, I think my content reflects that pretty heavily. Yes. That sometimes like, you know, and it's like, it's like, you know, when the non-Jew has like dinner with your family and it's like, no, no, no. Like us fighting, like that's like how we. That's our love language. Right. This is us just communicating normally, which will scare off any other person. But. I was like, then you better marry Jewish because otherwise they're not going to understand.
• 7:26
  Correct. But yes, to your point, there are just certain values that go across the board for all Jews. And not negative. I didn't mean the argumentative thing as a negative thing at all. No, I think it's a positive thing, actually. I think that we get a lot out of life because we're constantly digging and constantly trying to go deeper. You also, you know, you learn more when you disagree with somebody versus just like, you know, everyone like playing it safe and not saying how they really feel. A hundred percent. Do you think Jewish people are naturally searching to belong?
• 7:56
  Like as a result of our unending diaspora that we've always been a part of. And our unending like situation of never belonging. Do you think we're always striving for that? Yeah. I mean I would also argue like – I mean I don't – that's a very complex question. Oh, yeah. I mean I guess isn't any minority group always kind of trying to like belong and like claim their stake in the cultural world probably? Us probably –
• 8:25
  you know, more than others, but what's your answer? My answer is a little different. I think that ultimately we are pretty insular as a community because we've had to be. So we're always trying to fit into whatever box we desire. So there's always this need to...
• 8:47
  belong in whatever capacity or whatever circumstance we're in. So whether that's being in the religious community or being in a different minority community, I know that you align with a little bit of a different community as well. And that –
• 9:06
  You're always trying to seek approval. And I think that's really hard as a Jewish person with so much anti-Semitism. Well, yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess maybe I misunderstood your question. There's certainly a lot of in-group needing to belong. I think we're.
• 9:20
  We're a high performing group. We're very competitive. You know, as you said, we're so insular. So we're very social. Everyone knows what's going on in everyone's life, which can be both a good thing and a bad thing. You know, I like to see it as more of a good thing, but it does really create that sense of competition.
• 9:38
  that we as Jews kind of all have with each other. I mean, I'm seeing it, I see with my friends, you know, every single second of the day, you know, transitioning from post-grad into, you know, the more formal parts of adulthood with engagements and apartments and all that kind of stuff. You know, everything is something, always. It's interesting because I also think that as a community, as a whole,
• 10:01
  I went to camp with this person. I know this person through this person through this person. I don't see that in any other group. It's very, very common for you to have six degrees of separation anywhere. So while on the one hand, I'm like, we're always trying to belong. On the other hand, if you just sit with me. We already do belong. We already belong. We already do belong, right. You can already name 12 people that we all have in common. For sure.
• 10:25
  At what point did you realize you were part of another group? When did I know I was gay? Heck yeah. Oh my God. I always say, I don't always say, because I'm going to ask this that often, but I guess if you put a gun to my head, my first gay memory, if we can even call it that, because at this age I didn't know what that meant.
• 10:47
  But I was in like second or third grade. And I just remember we had a substitute teacher who I thought was so cute. His name is Mr. Ruff. I've spoken about him before. I'll talk about him again. Shout out. Obviously at that time, I did not process that as, oh, I think he's cute. But looking back, I can remember like feeling that. But I would say, you know, I mean, by fifth grade, once my peer group, my age group knew what that word meant, I was like, oh.
• 11:12
  That's me. I'm not going to like act on this, but that is definitely like an accurate description of what I'm thinking every time that I go home. What was it like realizing you're gay and in the Jewish community? What?
• 11:32
  I won't say I took my Jewish identity for granted, but because my friends were Jewish and because it was so normal to me, my bubble kind of had to pop for me to realize that being Jewish was just as...
• 11:47
  if not even more, just as unique as being gay. So that didn't really happen for me probably until, like, college when I went to school in New Orleans and there was, like, kids from the South and the Christian frats and Florida and Texas and all different kinds of people. I mean, I just described a very specific type of people. But I would say probably college, I was like, oh, wow, like –
• 12:08
  I'm gay and Jewish. I think when I was grappling with coming out, all the focus was on what makes me different is being gay. And like everything else about me is completely like totally normal, run of the mill, white Christian male, which I wasn't. But I think college is when I was like, oh, wow, like there are people who have never met a Jew before. And I was just like in my bubble. I just didn't know any better. Was it harder coming out as Jewish or coming out as gay down south?
• 12:33
  Um, it's so funny you say that. I mean, that question is so intertwined with my journey in Greek life. But I watched CBT, which is like one of the largest CBTs in the country. It's obviously a Jewish frat. I did not get a bid my freshman year, more or less because I was gay. Well, you know, no one's ever going to come forward and say that that's the reason. But how did you know?
• 12:54
  I just had friends who were in the frat who were like, yeah, well, not enough kids knew you. And those who did were like, well, he's gay. And at that time, I was like the only openly gay kid rushing a frat, whether it was EBT or another one. But then I went on to be the vice president of it. So in a way, it became a very accepting community. It didn't start out that way.
• 13:12
  But the Jewish community at Tulane was phenomenal. Yeah. So I guess for Tulane specifically and for the time that I was in college, which was before any of what's happening now, the gay thing was probably harder if that was the question. But I really found my Jewish community so quickly. You know, it was the Chabad's and, you know, ZBT always mixed with A-E-F-I. And very quickly, the Jews found each other. No different than the way that Sig Khaim and the Christian kids found, like, the Waspy girls. I don't know what the – I don't know.
• 13:41
  I don't know. Can I say that? I think so. Yeah, people call us Japans. I don't know. It's fine. That's totally fine. Free country. What do you think is the most stereotypical thing about you? I mean, my name is Max Cohen, for starters. I think that that's pretty. It's like the John Smith of Jewish names. I mean, you could go Moshe Cohen. That's also pretty. Yeah. No, but I feel like I'm pretty up there. Um...
• 14:11
  My dad works in finance. Oh, that's pretty – that is pretty stereotypical. I was going to be a lawyer. Well, you were a lawyer. I was a paralegal. And this is – people get very upset when I insinuate that I was a lawyer and that I left law to do content. I left the legal path to do content. Okay. Okay.
• 14:27
  Um, I'm not sure if I would have been so willing to throw away a law degree and the salary that comes with it. But I was studying for the LSAT every single day and I was about to take it. Um, I mean, there's so many, what else? Um, I'm gay. No, I'm kidding. Like there are a lot of gay Jews. It's like a joke. You want to write a musical, put a gay guy at a Jew in a room and shut the door. So that's funny that you say that because in my community,
• 14:49
  it's not so common. So in the reform and conservative community, it's still a lot more accepting when it comes to being openly gay. And I know that there are so many people within my community that struggle, whether that's finding acceptance, whether that's understanding how being Jewish and being gay can even coexist. Right.
• 15:15
  You were lucky enough to, A, have support. I watched your coming out video, which was probably the most gay way of coming out ever. It's up there. If you want to share how you did that, because it's hilarious. I had a Jewish chorus teacher who took us to see the musical Falsettos. It's about a gay couple...
• 15:33
  in AIDS time and man leaves his wife irrelevant. The musical was so moving to me that I came out to my chorus teacher and he said, you have to now come out to the entire school via song. This is what you're going to do with that. I was like, Oh, I just wanted to come out to you. Like, thanks for, he's like, Nope, that's it Friday. You're doing it. And I did. I sang a song about being gay to my 60 person chorus class, which everybody was recording. And at the end of this, or at the beginning of the song, I was like, and I'm singing this because I'm gay.
• 15:59
  So, yes, I had a lot of support. Like you had a lot of support within my like realm. It's a lot harder. I'm not going to lie to you. And it is actually becoming more common and people are becoming more comfortable with the idea. But it's not a simple. Yeah.
• 16:19
  coming out. I don't think it's ever as simple as coming out ever. Why would I choose to be gay? Why would I ever wake up? If anything, I was waking up and praying that I wasn't going to be gay. It's such a more, it's just an, it just is an inherently more difficult path in life. Like there is no one who is choosing to be gay.
• 16:38
  I mean, listen, I'll say it this way. The people are gay either way. Either they're sleeping with men and women in secret or they're doing it out in the public. Anyone who's gay, it's not changing. It's just, is this person going to be personally tortured or not? And that's a result of how accepting the community around them is willing to be. So your area of your community is not any less gay because people aren't out about it. Whatever random people are gay are either torturing themselves and not acting on it or doing it in secret. So the gay is already in the water.
• 17:06
  And you're already drinking it and you're not turning gay. So there you go. Do you think that the Jewish community has changed their stance on the LGBTQI acceptance? Oh, God. I mean, it's tough to speak on. There's so many flavors of Judaism and there's so many sects of Judaism. Like, how can I really answer that comprehensively? I think that compared to other, you know, religious groups, I think we're very accepting. Like, I, I, I, you know.
• 17:32
  it can get pretty bad depending on which religion you're looking into in terms of how they, you know, deal with people who decide to be openly gay. I'd like to think that as time goes on, we are becoming more accepting. At the same time, we also just get more divided and things just get more polarizing. So it's like two steps forward, one step back. Do you think there's a difference between acceptance and inclusion? Well, this goes back to belonging.
• 17:57
  Of course there is. And I'm sure acceptance will come first for a very long time until we start to see real, genuine inclusion. But listen, in my world of Judaism, half the couples are cheating on each other that are straight. So I feel like being gay— And that goes against the Torah big time. So I feel like in the circles I'm in, being gay is the worst of people's religious worries. Or it is not the worst of people's religious worries. So—
• 18:25
  It depends who you ask. We come from different ends of that spectrum. I know. I'm sure my world will maybe progress a little bit faster, but that piece of true inclusion remains to be seen. You know, it's so funny because I feel –
• 18:41
  So passionate about it because I'm like I see the struggle that happens for people. And like you're coming from a place where like it's standard. It's like normal. So like it's not a big deal. And I just wish that we can meet somewhere in the middle. That's the only thing.
• 18:57
  I mean, listen, it's also unique person to person. Like I'm someone who's I'm very extroverted. I'm very outgoing. I've always like been who I am, Jewish or gay or otherwise. So maybe claiming my identity was probably easier for me than most. So I don't want to discredit things that are happening on my end of Judaism where they're like, actually, it is still really hard because it's just so unique to each and every person.
• 19:18
  I hear that. I'm going to ask you something that's a little bit controversial. Sure. Let's talk Modi for a second. Let's do it. Because the religious community is obsessed. He is like our golden boy and he like came up through the trenches and is now successful and is on Fallon and is selling out Radio City Music Hall. And that's awesome and amazing. But –
• 19:47
  Do you think that he gets a free pass within the religious community? Because, you know, he didn't come out for a very long time. He was gay always. But he didn't come out until pretty recently in the scheme of things. And he already had built up this community of adoring fans. Do you think that Modi got a pass? It's a good question. I was just on his podcast. Yeah.
• 20:12
  And I got to learn a lot about him and his husband. And I think me and Modi have a lot in common. One, we're both from the Five Towns area, I'll call it. I think we also fall into a very specific category of gay men, which is straight passing gay men. There's certain, you know, gay men that you meet where you instantly know that they're gay. There is no like, oh, maybe he is, maybe he isn't. Like there's vocal inflections and body language and the way they present themselves where you know that person's gay. So it's an interesting thing when, you know, somebody appears to be straight,
• 20:42
  but is gay. So I think a large part of his gay past is that socially, he appears to be straight. He actually does a bit in his comedy routine that I just saw at Radio City where he's like, people always say, nice to meet you, Modi, and your gay husband, Leo. Like that, you know, they separate. He's a straight man with a gay husband. And, you know, truthfully, I can relate to a lot of that. So I think...
• 21:07
  I'll say this. We're at the point with gay people where it's like we're picking and choosing those gay individuals that align with, you know, straight culture. That if you can kind of like – if you can be the golden boy, this like perfect version of gay people where you act straight and you're just like gay separately and it's like super palatable and easy to digest –
• 21:28
  then you can get accepted. I think Modi's probably one of many examples of that. Maybe in the Jewish world, there's not so many. Although I'm probably one of them too at this point. You are. Which is a separate point, but related. People.
• 21:42
  All the time, people are shocked to find out that I'm gay, which cracks me up because I'm doing drag online in four-inch stilettos. And like, that's just a big, like, you're straight, come on. Well, because you also play a straight guy in your bits also. So like, maybe you're just like a character actor. Right, that's true, that's very fair. In my opinion, I think that,
• 22:02
  I won't say anything, but I think if you're pulling off women's clothing the way that I do, I think you pull it off. There's probably some homosexual activity happening behind the scenes there. But, you know, maybe people don't want to see that. People see what they want to see. I think that's true, too. So does Moe get a pass? Yes. Is it because he was in the you know, he didn't come out publicly till later. Who's to say? Is it? I don't know. On top of that, though, do you think that?
• 22:25
  Well, I personally think that actually having Modi out there as kind of this golden boy has actually created a lot of acceptance within our community. And within the from community, being able to say, hey, look, like he is openly gay. He is married and –
• 22:47
  everyone still is selling out his shows and enjoying his content and all of these things. It does, visibility does help. It paves the way. Do you think that you are creating that visibility for other young boys and girls? I'd like to think that, you know,
• 23:04
  There's some younger gay people out, the queer people out there who are like, you know, seeing me as a role model. I've definitely had some people DM me if that is the case. Am I at Modi's level? I'm not sure. And I think the nature of my content, is it resonating with the most religious Jews out there? I'm not sure. But I hope, I mean, I hope you're right.
• 23:24
  I follow you and I love it. And I actually went into a store today and I said that I was interviewing you and they're like, we love you. I was like, great. I'm like, then blow this podcast up. What does genuine acceptance look like to you? Oh, wow. And not only in the gay world. I'm talking about like as a person, what does acceptance look like to you?
• 23:54
  I think it means people seeing you – I mean this is so cliche, but like seeing you for the kind of person you are and not all the things that make you up. Like enough with the gay and the Jewish and the content creator and the apartment and the clothes and the this. It's like who is Max? Is he a good person? Is he funny? Is he kind? Is he kind?
• 24:12
  Is he perceptive? You know, is he sociable? I think, you know, just tearing back all the layers that we all work so hard to keep built up and just seeing who's actually there. And then and then taking that person in like like, you know, taking me in because you like me for who I am, not because of, you know, the smoke and mirrors. But I don't know. I don't I've never. I don't know. What does it look like to you?
• 24:37
  Acceptance to me is understanding who I am because acceptance starts with ourself. So the idea that I love who I am, that I know that I'm a good person, I'm a good mother, I'm a good Jew, I'm a good human. Once I accept that about myself, I don't really care. Right. The opinions of others can only affect you so much. Yeah.
• 25:01
  I literally – it took me until I was in my 30s. I don't know if I'm there yet. I'm like self-accepting. I know. It took me until really recently – I've spoken about this before – that it was hard. I went through a lot as a child and as a teen and as an adult. And it took me until I was in my 30s. I have four kids. I have a teenager. And –
• 25:25
  You're a teenage. I am. When did you have your first kid? I don't even want to tell you. Okay, don't. No, it's not a teen pregnancy, but it could have been. I got married at 20, so. Oh, okay. But that makes sense. And I had babies, like, pretty quickly. That's the rules. I'm about to be 36, so. You look phenomenal. Thank you.
• 25:40
  But I do think that once you move past all the BS of everybody else's opinions of you, you start going like, wow, okay, like I am cool. And I always say like the older I get, the cooler I get. I'm like I know who I am and you all are lucky to know me too. Well said.
• 25:59
  Okay, we're going to pivot just a little. Let's do it. If that's okay with you. Okay. Why Jewish humor totally works in your bits. Because honestly, your Jewish culture stuff hits so hard for me and my friends because unfortunately, you're like really making fun of us. Yeah. And I see myself. I'm like, oh my God, is that me? You just did a bit on packing for camp and I'm packing my four kids for camp. Well, three. One is still too young even though he begs to go.
• 26:28
  And I just feel like there's so much there. Yeah. Does everybody come up to you and go, oh, my God, I love you for this. I love you for that. What hits the hardest? Like your college humor, the Jewish humor? I mean, you know, Lisa Cohen, which is my Jewish mom character, has certainly taken on a life of her own. I think she resonates with people the most. I also have a very large 30 to 50 female following.
• 26:52
  But yeah, I mean, that's the great part of it. It's like, I'm directly making fun of you. I'm telling you to your face, but you're still enjoying it because I'm doing it in a respectful and we're all in on the joke kind of way.
• 27:05
  It also is just a little bit of me kind of regurgitating my own upbringing in like a very chaotic, stressful Jewish home. We hosted every single holiday. Didn't matter which one. From my mom's side and my dad's side, both sides would come to my house. Oh, God. So my first couple of viral videos were all getting ready for holidays because that was coming from the most real place for me. Like I remember every – we're still hosting them. I remember them. They were – we just did Mother's Day and Passover. So it's a lot of –
• 27:34
  it feels real to you because it's real to me. Like it is based on my real life and that's why we're all connecting with it because, you know, Jews all have pretty similar upbringings. And like, it doesn't matter the like religious level. Certain things are standard. They're like literally in our bloodstream of, okay, we all act crazy pre-holidays as a Jewish mother. I'm not gonna lie. We all want everyone to look a certain way and act a certain way. And every tablescape has to be X, Y, and Z. And it's so funny because it's,
• 28:03
  It's so true. Yeah. And it's a little embarrassing, I'm not going to lie, because when you put it out on a public platform, I'm like, why are you telling everybody our psychoticness? You know what? You know what's so great? Whenever I post those videos and they get one million, two million, five million views, there's not even five million Jews that are seeing it, right? I was going to say, like, what a flex.
• 28:20
  No, but a lot of those comments and likes and shares are from people like, oh my God, this is my black mom. This is like my Asian dad. This is like my Jamaican aunt. Like anyone you could think of who's not Jewish has found some of their family in the Jewish family I'm putting online. So maybe we're all not so different. I actually really believe that deeply because ultimately –
• 28:43
  If you have a sense of community, family, and like understanding of that, everything is the same. A hundred percent. It's all the same. There's the same baseline. Just like you change like certain foods are a little different, but ultimately the gathering looks exactly the same. Of course. Like the cousin sneaking outside to, you know, a little schmaff. Yeah, exactly. Our camp, college, and dating comedy –
• 29:11
  Why does it hit so hard for your audience? One, because every single person went to camp. No, you're wrong. Not in our world, yes. Oh, Jews, yeah. In the Jews, we all went. But, like, the fact that it goes so hard. Well, they want to know about it.
• 29:29
  I think that they're so interested. There's definitely a portion of my videos that go viral because in some way, and I'm not the right person to do this, but in some way they are educational for the people who have no clue what it is. They DM me. They tell me. They are fascinated by our culture. They can't – because you have to think about this. If you're not Jewish –
• 29:46
  The idea of sending your kid away to camp for seven weeks and not talking to them, other parents just can't comprehend it. So when they're seeing like getting ready for visiting day, they're like, what the hell am I watching? And they're actually watching all the way through. I'm like watching it a second time because it's like they're learning something new. And again, I'm probably not the best vessel for that to be happening. But there is a fascination with some of the nuances of our culture. By the way, I 100% agree with that.
• 30:17
  Do you think that people come to you and go, okay, I want to learn this. I want to understand that. What is the most like niche thing that you have come up with that people have resonated with? Oh my God. I mean, you know what's so crazy? I think that everything I do is so niche. I'm always so surprised when people like this is exactly me. I'm like, they're the most specific like Long Island or like Tulane references, like specific camps. But we all know everything about each other.
• 30:47
  But, I mean, I'm trying to think. I have no clue. I have to think a little bit more on that one. I'll say that, like, when you did your most recent skit with, like, packing the jerseys, I swear I just did that for my boys. I was like, my kids are like, I don't even like that team. I was like, I don't care. I bought you a million-dollar jersey. You're bringing it to camp. Exactly. Well, you know, so much of Jewish culture is also, like,
• 31:12
  those helicopter overbearing parents, and how much of our identity, at least when we're young, is actually completely fabricated by our parents. It's like,
• 31:20
  Of course you don't know what sports teams you like. You're eight. You can't possibly be a fan of all of them. How much time do you spend watching TV after school? So a lot of the moms and dads, the ones who are kind of like dictating that, those hobbies and those passions and kind of just like making it up until, you know, cause it's a reflection of the parents and that matters a lot too. You know, you want your kid to be in the cool bunk and you want him to make the right friends and you want him to be friends with your friend's kids.
• 31:43
  I mean, there's just such a song and dance to it, which again is not unique to Jews, but we do it to a very extreme level.
• 31:51
  Yeah, and we're, like, very over the top when it comes to everything, but especially when it comes to our children. So all the things, like, when you talk about, like, the two-lane bed, like – Yeah, of course. Okay, in the firm world, that doesn't exist because we all go to the same schools, like, Turo, YU, or, like, if you're really smart, you go to, like, Columbia or NYU. Sure. But –
• 32:15
  It's so, so funny because it's so true. I have babysitters that went to Hewlett High School and I remember them getting ready for like their bed parties or whatever. And I'm like, what is bed party? Like that's not a thing. The bed parties are ridiculous. They're definitely a newer phenomenon. But –
• 32:34
  It's so much more than a bed party. It's a status symbol. And it sits on your Instagram feed as you're getting ready to go from high school to college. And girls will use that to judge one another and decide if they were cool in high school based on what their bed party looks like. Was it over the top? Was a lot of money put into it? Do they have 14 friends who came to surprise them or only four friends who came to surprise them? Were they buying clothes from the right brands? Do they have the right balloons? Were her clothes cute? Has she gained or lost weight since her bed party? So much goes into it. It really is deeper than people think.
• 33:03
  Do you think that that also has to do with like if you get into certain sororities and things like that based on their social media? I mean, yeah, you know, loosely. I mean, I guess, yeah, if you're if you're rushing in the fall, you only have so much content on your Instagram feed from the end of high school. So, yes, sororities look at the girl's Instagram feed just to decide if she gets in or not. Of course.
• 33:24
  I feel like that's very stressful. But that's why all these things matter so much. It's also why the jerseys matter so much when you're packing. You don't want your kids to get to camp and everyone has like the Golden State Warrior Steph Curry jersey and your kid doesn't because these things matter. And the camp friends you make when you're eight, you know, you stay with them until you're 13 and then like, you know, they become your new peer group and that.
• 33:40
  decides where you're going to college and who has girlfriends and who doesn't. And like, I only know this, by the way, sorry that I'm ranting so much, because I was an outsider looking in. I was in the weird bunk. I grew up not in the cool Jewish friend group in my grade. So I know all those social markers so well because I had to fake having them to get in. I moved from the weird bunk to the cool bunk. I moved into the cool popular Jewish friend group. So like, I know people probably don't realize everything is saying something. Everything.
• 34:08
  Yeah, it's really hard because as much as we try our best to not feed into those things, right? Like when bunks came out this week, my kid called me, I promise you, every 15 minutes. Did you get the email? Did you get the email? Did you get the email? I'm like, oh my God.
• 34:26
  Not even that. What about what kid whose bed he's next to? You know, is he next to his best friend? Is the kid who's also in his high school in a same bunk or in a different bunk? There's like such a song and dance to it. I also worked out of Seapoint Camp for three years after going to one for eight years. So I'm very well. I went from when I was seven till I got married.
• 34:43
  So I'm like – I'm hardcore and I believe that you make the best friends going to camp. And it's interesting you even say like all of this stuff matters. I think about like bar and bat mitzvahs. Like –
• 34:57
  Bar and bat mitzvahs now, they are a status symbol for the parents. Yeah. More than the kids. Come on. No kid, whatever. Who at 13 wants to have a party to start with them? You have acne. You're like just starting puberty. You're like still a little fat. Oh, I'm sorry. You're super skinny. You're in a different era now. The kids now are hot and cool. That's true. At 13. I'm like. You see it on TikTok when the girls post and I'm like.
• 35:18
  That is not what 13-year-old girls looked like when I was 13. No, I looked like a mess at 13. I still had frizzy hair and braces. These girls are hot. And I'm like, I want to be your friend, but I'm also so scared of you. Yeah. And think about all the girls who don't post. Think about all the girls who are like, my birthplace is not good enough. I'm not skinny enough. My dress isn't expensive enough. My photo background isn't bright enough. And it's social media, baby. It's really hard. And I think as raising children now –
• 35:45
  There's this like balance because we want our kids to feel good and confident and part of the crew. But I also want them to be humble. Right. You just want to raise a good person. Yeah. And it's really difficult. I think that back when there wasn't social media, it was a lot easier to fly under the radar than now where if you don't post or you don't have X, Y, and Z –
• 36:11
  your your almost your personal brand goes down yeah 100 but i think that actually there's a lot of phoniness when it comes to social media of course um and you can fake it so even if you don't have the biggest best or whatever you don't have to i do it for a living i pretend that i have a half my followers staying up from the north shore like yeah you're so rich i'm like yeah i wish i was i'm happy that the gimmick is working
• 36:38
  Do you think that that is more important in the Jewish world versus the outside world? Having money? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to feed into negative stereotypes. I think we obviously as a culture and a community value having money. So, yes, I would say it's more important for us than the average person.
• 36:58
  I think it's hard because ultimately I do think we- I mean, we're just very successful. So when the bar is set so high, you have to just have certain things to even be in the running.
• 37:11
  I also think it's difficult when you don't have – I didn't grow up having a lot. Sure, sure, sure. And I think that the value of money is actually less important than the value of hard work. And because people work really hard within the community – yeah, it's –
• 37:32
  We get successful. Right. Thank God. Right. And I think that people put this like negative spin on wanting to be successful, wanting to have money. Like, why is that a bad thing? I agree. Why is having drive a bad thing? I agree. Everyone's like, the Jews are rich. I was like, great. Thank you so much. I would love to be rich. I would love to live up to that stereotype.
• 37:51
  So I think we – the value system is not to be wealthy. The value system is to work hard. And you see that and you see that with just in school. Like there's no monetary gain from your kid getting good grades or getting a high ACT score. Like you're just – it's just to be hardworking, to go to good college, to at some point work hard enough to then be successful. Yeah. Yeah.
• 38:16
  Can I talk about your upbringing a little bit? Yeah, please do. What do you know about her? So speaking of successful, your mother is a doctor. She is. She is. A psychologist. Does she have a DR in front of her name? No, she does. She does. No, but just people watching. Oh, she does, you know. Medical? No. Right. She's a psychologist. She's a psychologist. She sees clients? Yes, she does. Okay, well. Pitch Dr. Cohn. Dr. Cohn. Okay, there you go.
• 38:46
  sees clients the way I see clients. I want to know, as a child of a clinician,
• 38:55
  What's the worst thing she did to screw you up? She did a lot of the me. I think having a psychologist for a mother had a lot of good things. But certainly when we'd be at the peak of our emotions and my mom comes in with, and how does that make you feel? Like I'm not sure if right now at the family dinner table after a long day of school, I want to get into like my psyche and my personal trauma that is making me feel this way. Especially when at times your mom can be part of that trauma. Who's not the person you're explaining it to?
• 39:24
  So I shouldn't ask my kids how is that making you feel? I think as a parent, it's a balance, right? You have to let your kids come to you, but you also have to like kind of breadcrumb them into doing that. I think – So I have to manipulate them is what you're saying. Yeah, of course. Of course. I think as a psychologist, my mom was just –
• 39:43
  We're going right into this one. And I'm like, I don't know if like every problem needs to be like analyzed from every single angle live as it's happening. But she's also a very emotional person. So there was times where I'd feel bad and my mom would be hysterical crying about that thing. And I'm like, well, now I feel worse because you're crying about it. I didn't feel this bad. Now that I see how bad it's making you feel, now like maybe I should feel worse. But she's just very in touch with her emotions. But that's true for happy times as well. What is the best thing?
• 40:12
  that she did as a parent or both your parents, I guess, that made you feel just good, happy, strong, successful? I feel like I could, for the most part, tell my parents anything. And I feel like as a kid, you have to have that outlet because there are just times when people your age aren't the right people to tell your bigger problems to. And if you feel like you can't talk to a parent about that,
• 40:39
  then you end up just by yourself with your own thoughts. So I think just knowing that their door was open if I wanted to push it open meant a lot to me. And knowing that they wouldn't come at me being super, super judgy. Of course, they're still having that parent hat on, and it's really hard, at least for my parents, to fully take it off. But just being able to say...
• 41:00
  hey, my friends are smoking a lot of weed. This is getting kind of crazy. And my parents are like, that is crazy. Let's talk about it. Versus not having that conversation, going along with my friends, and then whatever. I mean, this is one quick example off the top of my head. But yes, I was a major pothead in high school now that I'm putting my cards on the table. Okay, no judgment here. I mean, now it's totally on every corner. Now everybody's high all the time. I was high before it was cool. By the way, you're a trendsetter. Trailblazer.
• 41:29
  What is the most therapist phrase your mother used to use with you guys? I think she probably actively worked like avoid using those therapists. She was also a children's psychologist. There was like a major overlap in what she does. Talk about transference there. And what was going on. I don't know. I mean did she ever hit us like the how do you feel about that? Maybe.
• 41:53
  I don't know. I don't do that really with my kids because all of my training goes out the window when I'm parenting. I'm like, I don't. Same for my mom. Sometimes I'm like, you're a psychologist. Look how you just handled that mess in the kitchen. Not going to go tell someone else how to handle theirs. But obviously when it's your own family, it's a totally different ballgame. Exactly. I'm like, guys, don't judge me based on how I treat my own family. Just judge me based on how I am in session. Right. Right.
• 42:17
  Okay, I'm going to do a few rapid fire questions with you and let's see if you can handle them. Jewish camp or Jewish weddings?
• 42:25
  I don't know. I've only been to like two weddings. What? So I'm the oldest grandkid, cousin, family, friend, sibling on both sides. Like I am literally the oldest always. Like whatever Max does sets the precedent for everyone else moving forward. So I don't have enough Jewish weddings under my belt. Max, I have to take you to a from Jewish wedding. I'm scared. No, no, no. It is the most fun. With all 600 of you. Shtick. If you don't know what shtick is, like.
• 42:50
  It's like you're basically roasting the couple at their own wedding, but not like in a speech. You're like wearing their ex-boyfriends on their face. Like it's crazy fun. And the dancing, like the rabbis are coming out break dancing. It's this whole other entity. I really feel like you need to hop on that trend. I do. But yeah, I guess Jewish camp on that one. I also love camp. I'm a huge camp guy. I went for 12 years, 11 years, 12 years. Matchmaking or dating app?
• 43:20
  I've done both. And? I think in the gay world, there's a big issue with matchmaking. Someone says, oh, I have someone for you. And the only thing I have in common with that guy is that he's gay. And to me, that's the bare minimum. You knowing a man who likes men is the bare minimum of a partner for me. And people aren't doing it with bad intentions. Yeah.
• 43:39
  But imagine if I set up my guy with a girl and he's like, oh, tell me about her. And I was like, she like hates sports and she is brunette and whatever, X, Y and Z. And he's like, I literally don't look for any of those six things in a woman. And I'm like, well, she's a girl, though. So obviously you guys are going to be a good match. And that's kind of what happens in gay world when straight people set us up.
• 43:59
  It's like you guys are 30 years apart and he just came out or like – or he's like – or he's my son and he's a freshman in college and it's like – you know. It's like just because he likes men and I like men, that is the bare minimum. That's so funny you say that because in our like Shidduch system, like the matchmaking world that we're in –
• 44:19
  girls and boys feel like that, it is, this is standard. We always talk about like, there's a resume that you go through and we're like, okay, you are a girl and they're a boy and we just throw things out the wall and see what sticks. Right. It, you are talking about something that's so universal. I'm sure it's true. And that's why there's like, we talk a lot about like the shit up crisis and matchmaking issues. Yeah.
• 44:40
  What you're talking about, it's universal. Gay, straight, bi, doesn't matter. It's all the same. But at the same time, beggars can't be choosers. And I'm more than happy that people are thinking that I'm an eligible candidate for someone in their life who they care about. Dating apps, I have the opposite problem. When you're on social media and you're very forward-facing, a lot of guys will match with them and be like, I love your videos. And I'm like...
• 45:02
  I appreciate that, but it sets up a weird dynamic because I know nothing about you. If you follow me, you know everything about me. So it's like a weird little game to play now of like, well, how do I get to know about you? And you don't have to do that back. Do you think that you are giving – like my social media is not who I am. It's not necessarily not who I am. Sure. But I'm not sharing like the innermost working. So –
• 45:25
  Do you feel like you are an authentic representation of yourself online? No one is, right? I mean, I definitely have times where I'm just talking as me, Max, and I'm ranting to the camera, explaining my childhood. And those are pretty aligned with, like, the real me. But obviously the majority of my videos where I'm doing comedy, that's just comedy. But I think there's enough of those videos where I'm being the real me that if you wanted to stalk me and go on a first day with me, you could know every single thing. And I've had that happen where I'm like –
• 45:51
  All right, obviously there's not going to be a second date here because we just moved. We just did like five dates in one because now we're talking about like our things that you wouldn't even get to because we'd still be trying to figure out about each other. Right. Kind of ruins the fun. It does. So my dating life's fucked or bleeped. It's okay. Don't worry. My dating life's meh. Okay. What are you looking for in a guy? Oh, God. Money. Okay. For right now. No. No.
• 46:20
  Basically, he's looking for a sugar daddy. So hit Max up. I'm looking for I'm looking for anyone's looking for somebody who's like around my age, has a good job, lives in the city, loves his parents, has nice friends. I don't think that's too much of an ask, but apparently it is.
• 46:39
  I think till you find your person or somebody you want to date long term, it's really hard. Honestly. Yeah. When you know, you know or whatever. I don't believe that. Listen, I dated my husband for two and a half months. We were married two months later. Right. I mean, you guys are on the fast track. Fast track. And he's significantly older than I am. I love that. We are – I was looking for a sugar daddy. Yeah.
• 47:00
  He conned me into thinking he was. Now he truly is. But I just feel like you never know until you know who you are and how comfortable you are with yourself. And once you get to that point, you'll be golden. Yeah.
• 47:16
  By the way, you're like rapid fire questions. I'm giving you like 10 paragraph answers. It's okay. You're allowed. It's okay. I'm used to this with therapy. Like I'm like, you tell me your soul and I'll just be here. One thing people get wrong about Jewish people. Oh God. I mean, there's so many. I mean, the one I get the most is like, we can look a variety of ways. I happen to look pretty Jewish. Yeah, you do. But like.
• 47:46
  You're blonde. Like I do a lot of videos with this girl, Noah Solomon. Yeah, she's so cute. Love her. We're great friends. She has bright blonde hair. And half the comments every time are like, she's Jewish. And I'm like, one, last name Solomon. Not the point. But two, like, yes, Jews can be blonde. And Jews can be a thousand things that you think they can't be. And this kind of goes back into like, what's that? Let's take that nobody wants this show. Yes. Where it's like, you know, the only way they show the Jewish women is the Jewish women are brunette. And the non-Jewish women are blonde.
• 48:13
  And that's that, which is like so nonsensical. I know, and it's very stereotypical when in reality we come in every shade, every color, every – Of course. Everything. Trust me, everything. I mean, not just hair. It's like everything. It's like – it's the height. It's the nose. It's the posture. It's the athleticism. It's the eyebrows. I mean, it's like –
• 48:32
  Right. People are like obsessed with us. It's like stop trying to like figure out exactly who we are. Like you're not gonna. I know. It's really like – Everywhere. By the way, yes. And we're so – But not Hollywood because if we were running Hollywood, I would have more than 250,000 followers on Instagram. Maybe you just don't have the right team. Like maybe you should hire my mother. My assistant is like sitting behind you. I'm like maybe you should hire my mother and she can get you more. What is one thing that people get wrong about gay men?
• 49:02
  Unfortunately, they get so much of it right. Oh, God. I mean, I am so many gay stereotypes. I love musical theater. I'm very outgoing. I'll dance with a stranger. There's so many things people get wrong with gay people. And I'm going to tell you one.
• 49:23
  Right now. Oh, this is, oh, I have a horrible sense of fashion. I really do. I have very few clothes. I wear white t-shirts and black t-shirts and jeans. We are not all fashion gurus. Okay. That's all. You know they have stylists for that.
• 49:40
  I can't afford a stylist right now, but as soon as I can, I will change that. But I think you look great, so I don't think you need to change up your life. But listen, I have many, many – all my friends are straight guys, but I have many, many friends who dress far better than I ever could. And not just because of the money. They can actually pick out a good shoe, pant, shirt match. And I was like, yeah, I don't – You don't get it. Yeah. And I don't care. You can appreciate it. I also don't care. I'm like, I'd rather – I have a lot of OCD. I have a very simple closet.
• 50:08
  Do I not? It's T-shirts, jeans. Okay. By the way, it's safe and it looks great. So don't worry about that. Thanks. And by the way, I think I was like a secretly gay man in another life because I am also a theater kid. Well, I was a Jewish mom in another life. So we – By the way – Maybe we used to be each other. Maybe. You know what? Maybe you did want to be a blonde girl from L.A. I did with four sons. I –
• 50:32
  And they all went to Michigan. That's what I always say. Oh, okay. That's the kind of mom I was. I only have three sons. That counts. And a daughter. I have a daughter. She's my oldest, so she's like really – She had to be tough. She's tough. She's the best. But she's tough. And she loves you. I love that. All of her friends are so excited for this episode. They listen to the podcast in school when they're not supposed to. And she's like, finally, somebody that I know. And I'm like, great. Thanks. I love it. I love it. Okay. Celebrity.
• 51:02
  What would you tell a young person if they don't fit in the box to feel confident and comfortable? Okay. Wait. Say that again. What would you tell a young person if they don't feel confident and comfortable, let's say right now, to feel that way? How would you channel that? Listen –
• 51:29
  People are always going to put you in a box, but that's honestly none of your business. You be yourself. Fully be every part of who you are. Don't worry about how people are going to categorize you after the fact. That's their problem. That's their agenda. And honestly, it has nothing to do with you. Like...
• 51:47
  I was put in a thousand. I leave and go into boxes all the time. I was in a lawyer box. I left that box. I'm making it up as I go. What people do with me and how they decide to file me away in their brain is their problem. I love that. That's it. By the way, that is the best way to end because honestly, we all go in and out of boxes our entire life.
• 52:12
  And I think that if you stay in a box, you never really truly get to accept, learn, and love other people. So thanks, Max, for coming. Thanks for having me. And I appreciate it. And like, subscribe, and share anywhere you like to stream. Thanks.