Latest / The Ageless Warrior Lab / Mario Sperry: Fighting With Your Opponent Instead of Against Them | EP 59

Transcript

Mario Sperry: Fighting With Your Opponent Instead of Against Them | EP 59 · The Ageless Warrior Lab

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm not very technical.
0:01
SPEAKER_01: I know some moves, but I'm very good in making people tired.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: And when they are tired, I look really good.
0:07
SPEAKER_01: I look really technical.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: I know guys they were way more technical than me, but I was able to win because I could make them more tired than I was.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: God doesn't give any button in front of you that you cannot take it.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: So if He's giving me this button, I'm gonna take it.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna take it with pleasure.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Ageless Warrior Lab.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm BJJ Coral Belt and Dirty Dozen member Dave Meyer, here to draw wisdom from Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and the martial arts and explore how it applies to success in business, relationships, your long-term health, and making the most out of your life.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: What you're about to hear is a discussion I recorded with Professor Mario Zen Machine Sperry.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Mario is a co-founder of Brazilian Top Team, has won gold medals at ADCC in multiple divisions and super fights, beating greats like Oleg Tokhtarov, Ensign Inoue, Henzo Gracie, Fabio Grajol, and others, landing him in the ADCC Hall of Fame.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: He has won multiple BJJ World Championships in the late 1990s, and is actually the person who beat me in the semifinals of the 1998 BJJ World Championship in Rio, leaving me to split third place with Mario Bustamante and making me the first American to win a medal in a BJJ World Championship at the black belt level.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Mario then went on to take gold, beating Joleta that year.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Mario went on to a successful MMA career, fighting and winning in Pride in Japan, and retiring with a 13-4 record in pro MMA.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: He's been training partner and coach for such UFC legends as Antonio Rodrigo Minotaro Noguera and his twin Antonio Rogerio Minotauro Noguera, Mario Bestamonte, Vitor Beltfour, Anderson Silva, Rashad Evans, and many more.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: Today Mario still trains and teaches at his academy in Miami, Florida.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: We talk about his training, upbringing, and training ethic, how he approached fights, why he decided to retire from competition, and how he stays healthy and fit today, and his attitude towards training and life generally.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Do let me know what you think by leaving a comment on YouTube or connecting with us on Instagram.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: And now sit back and enjoy my talk with Professor Zemario Sperry.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: Mario, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me today.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: My pleasure.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: We first met, I don't know if you remember, it was in 1998, Munjal's.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't even called IBJ JF yet because there wasn't anything international.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I think it was Confederacia Brasileira de Jiu-Jitsu, like C BJJ.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: Confederação, Confederação.
2:57
SPEAKER_02: Brazil de Jiu-Jitsu, yeah.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: And we met in the open weight class division in the semifinals.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: You were so nice.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: I gotta just gotta tell you something because you obviously, you know, I had seen the videos of you.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: I knew you were the best in the world.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: I knew I didn't have a chance, but I thought, well, I'm here, let's fight.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: No, you did good.
3:15
SPEAKER_00: You passed my guard so easily.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: You were clearly it was so easy for you.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And then you apologized at the end because I don't know, some choke or something.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: You thought you just wanted to end the fight and move on.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, like, what a great guy.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Like, you're so much better than me.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: You're a legend.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: You took the time to train with me.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: And like you're saying to me, like, oh, you're sorry you were a little rough on the choke.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, you weren't rough, you were perfect, you were the best in the world.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: And then you beat Joletta for the world championship.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, what happened was all my fights, I tried to do the same thing since blue belt to the black belt.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: All my fights, I tried to do the same thing, the knee slice and the choke on the side control.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: And fortunately for me, I got a good spot.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: And I, as you said, I managed to pass.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: It was my stronger, stronger move.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: Like just yesterday, I was training with these those guys at the gym, and I did several times the same move.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, knee slice, clock choke, or kneon belly, clock choke, I mean side choke.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cookie cutter.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: I saw the opportunity, I could nice the knee, and I got there, and it was not in a very good spot.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: But I said, you know what?
4:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna push a little bit because I'm gonna have a lot of fights and I need to end this thing as quick as I can.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I said I'm sorry, because I felt like it was not in that exact spot that I wanted.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a problem, and it just made me realize what an amazing competitor, what an amazing sportsman you are.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Your nickname is the Zen Machine, right?
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Right.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that comes because you're so calm and you're so relaxed.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just wondering, do you like that nickname?
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And is there a reason you're so relaxed when you fight?
4:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was surprised with this nickname, but I think there's more than that for being calm.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: But is because my first name is people, a lot of people don't know my first name is Jose, and my second name is Mario.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: So my first name is Jose Mario, right?
5:10
SPEAKER_01: And in Brazil, they call me Zen Mario Zem Mar Z, yeah, Z Mario and Z Mario, and then a lot of people in America thought I was calm.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: I never thought I was calm.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I was always nervous, and I just didn't show it, show it, right?
5:23
SPEAKER_01: So they start calling me the Zane, the Zane, so Zayn Mario, because it's kind of a tricky uh name that's so interesting.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I remember people cheering, say Mario, say Mario, always, and I know that's because your name is actually Jose Mario.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly, and then became the Zane Machine because it was Mario the Machine, and because I always used to fight both divisions, always uh absolute and my division, away division, and I did a lot of fights, and supposedly people thought that I would never get tired, and they called me the machine.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's a very interesting bit of history.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: I have a nickname too, but I won't bore you with what it is or why, because it's a funny story.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: And they like, you know, in I noticed in Brazil they like nicknames, they like to give people nicknames.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Of course, yeah.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: I read that you came from a military family, and I'm wondering if that affected you as a fighter.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Was that pressure?
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Was that does that have anything to do with your success as a fighter?
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, definitely.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: My father was an Air Brigadier three stars, he fought on the revolution here, the military revolution as a helicopter pilot.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: My grandfather, father of my mom, was a three-star general.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: He went to the Second War in Italy.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: And my brother was a captain from the Air Force, but unfortunately he passed away in action.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: He was uh training with the he was a jet pilot, and he was training in his plane crashed.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: I studied for four years in the military school at college.
6:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean high school, sorry.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: I did high school at military school, so I had a pretty basic military foundation.
6:56
SPEAKER_01: My home was like uh like an army, so I have to do everything, discipline, wake up, do the bed, clean the bathroom, you know, time to do this, time to do that, lunch time, dinner time.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think my father was a very serious man, very composed, and he was very well spoken.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think that brought me to this persevere and discipline in the sport.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: I can see that with you, and I know you came from the Carlson Gracie school.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, my coaches were Hegan and Jean-Jacques, and they came from Carlos Gracie Jr.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: and Gracie Baja.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Right.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: And my my impression of the Carlson Gracie team, which was the main rival team, was that the technique was amazing, of course, but also very strong attitude around fitness and training very seriously.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: And so maybe that worked well for you because you already came from strong discipline that way.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: To be honest, I started my physical training at the military school.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: I was doing deadlift and weightlifting with when I was 12, 13 years old.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: By that time, a lot of people say, Oh no, you're gonna be like small, you won't grow.
8:04
SPEAKER_01: That was this kind of mystic uh lie, and then I say, you know what?
8:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I will be a strong, short guy.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: And now I'm 61, 6 feet, so I think I grew enough, and I was fighting with 220 pounds, so I I think I did good.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: The funny thing was, as you mentioned, Carlson Grayson at the beginning, they were very good, don't get me wrong, technically wise, but they're not focused outside the mat in terms of conditioning.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: When I came to an age like 14, 15, 16, the difference of the level of strength and speed that I had due to my past training when I was a kid, it was lifting and running, helped me a lot, helped me a lot and made me more confident and made me more focused on training because you know when you win this, you feel good.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: I kept training, I realized what most of everything that I was doing was right because the results were coming, and I just kept doing the same thing conditioning, eating, sleeping, training, and that was it.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: This is something I'm passionate about too.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: I call it your homework.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: The stuff that happens off the mat, especially for people in the United States living today, maybe they're not gonna planning on being professional athletes.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: They maybe have a few hours a week, they're gonna be on the jiu-jitsu mat, right?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: Maybe three classes, something, you know, six hours a week, who knows?
9:26
SPEAKER_00: But there's so many hours that you're not on the jiu-jitsu mat and you can still be getting better.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And those are the hours to do your conditioning and your weight training, and of course, how you sleep and how you eat and all those things.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think you were very smart to be on it that way because that was a time when many jujitsu fighters weren't.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: The jujitsu was just what happened on the mat.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think when people started to come to the United States, I think a lot of the Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighters started to see like American wrestlers and their interest in fitness.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:54
SPEAKER_00: And I remember when Hagen started lifting some weights for the first time.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: And I'm actually a big believer that weight training and fitness training really is good for jujitsu, so long as you don't become too bulky, too tight, you know.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on drilling as opposed to live training in jiu-jitsu?
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that people do enough drilling?
10:16
SPEAKER_00: That's another thing.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: Back in the day, on the 80s, the 90s, people are not used to drill.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: They were used to go to the gym, stretch a little bit, and roll.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Because also, when I went to school, there was no jiu-jitsu in my school, the military school, because jujitsu was not Olympic sport.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: So I started doing judo.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: With the judo, I realized how the Olympic, how Olympic sport is trained.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Maybe 60% of the training was not live sparring, was drilling in judo.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: I said, you know what?
10:51
SPEAKER_01: And I start you know training boxing also because I like I like boxing, I like fighting.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: And I realized, hey, those guys, look how those guys trained.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: One, two, one, two, one, two, one, two, three, one, two, three.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: It's repetition, repetition, repetition.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: And I started realizing that also watching those guys playing soccer, another Olympic sport.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: They kick the ball, kick the ball, kick the ball.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: The basketball players, they shoot, they shoot, they shoot.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: So I say, you know what?
11:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna start doing my moves several times.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: So I break down my training with the things that I like to do, and I was used to do several times.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: And I asked my partner, hey, behave like 50%, and I bet I could increase my speed and I could increase my endurance in that particular move.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: That's why people thought I was really resilient, because in some of my moves that I was used to use, I was used to do like a thousand times before.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: And so I would kept trying to do the same move, the same move, the same move, the same move many times.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: If I didn't win the fight by points or a submission, I would tie the my opponent out and win, anyways.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: For those people who don't train jujitsu, you see these that like the entering on the throw, like working Kazushi, you know, off-balancing the person again, again, again, again, and then only finishing with the throw maybe one time.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: I think you were ahead of your time in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, really.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: Because I I remember what you were talking about that it was mostly just rolling, and maybe nowadays there's people like the Mendez brothers and people who are kind of famous for drilling things, but I think you saw that very early.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I realized also that the conditioning was a great part, and so we had in Brazil, especially in Rio, that I where I was used to live, we had access to the beach, so we have the sand, so we did a lot of condition on the sand, you know, sprinting, carrying people on their backs, swimming.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: We could go a little, I mean, my in my case, I could go a little a little bit ahead in terms of conditioning.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's very important.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: I remember I think it was Jean-Jacques Machado who once said to me, Everybody, he was talking about black belt fighters.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Everybody starts the match as a black belt, and then two minutes in they become a brown belt, and then three minutes in they become a purple belt, right?
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Wow, it's what you're saying.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in the seminars, when I was used to the seminars, it was a very common question saying, Hey Mario, you're very technical.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: I said, No, no, no, I'm not very technical.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: I know some moves, but I'm very good in make people tired.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: So when they got tired, I look really good.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: I look really technical.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: I know guys that were way more technical than me, but I was able to win because I could make them more tired than I was.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's no question, and we all know anybody who trains knows how your performance is degraded when you are tired.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: And the thought that, well, maybe, but what if I wasn't tired?
13:45
SPEAKER_00: What if I was strong in the 10th minute as I was in the first minute?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: That's a real advantage, but that takes that takes practice off the mat.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not for everyone.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: You trained jujitsu, and I think pretty early on in Brazil, you did a valley tutor fight and you got into MMA.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Why did you start training MMA and not just stick with jujitsu?
14:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I trained pretty much all my life, jiu-jitsu.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: I did some boxing, I did wrestling, I did judo, a lot of judo also, for to help all my jiu-jitsu competitions.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I start doing pretty much everything at the same time because on the 90s, the end of the 80s, there was not so much competition, right?
14:27
SPEAKER_01: So we have to do what I have to do.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: In the 90s, I was used to do jujitsu, then came came up Abu Dhabi, and then we have you know some Valitudo MMA fights, right?
14:40
SPEAKER_01: Because of the return fight, the financial return of the MMA, I start driving myself to this kind of fight.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: And of course, when thing when things got a little bit more professionalized, I said, you know what, I have to focus here, otherwise, I won't succeed.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: I can't, that's what I tell my wife.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: You cannot have it all, right?
15:04
SPEAKER_01: You have to choose a path, and then I choose to MMA.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: So I started training.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: I trained some jujitsu, no, but not with the gear.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: I trained a lot with all the gifts that helped me in Abu Dhabi.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: Also, pretty much I start focusing more in Waita, wrestling, boxing.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: You make a good point.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's even true today, but certainly back then there wasn't money, there was no curses or anything in in jiu-jitsu.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: There still isn't at IBJ JF mostly.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: And MMA, or that's where the money was.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: And actually, people, you know, you'd have to be older to remember it, but even the when the UFC was starting, there was always there was already pride in Japan, and that was paying better, and that was much more professionalized.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where you went.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: As you said, I remember we have a lot of a bunch of fighters in Brazilian top team, and I, you know, I said, Man, look, let's go to UFC.
15:52
SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to go to UFC, everybody wants to go to Pride.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Pride was had the glamour, you know, the like 90,000, 100,000 people live.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: The payment was in cash, the payment was way better than UFC.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: There was no taxes, and it is what it is.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: You go follow the money.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: So you did very, very well in Pride.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: You beat a lot of Japanese fighters, but then at some point, yeah, you came back to ADCC, which was a grappling competition, but it was the first grappling competition that I remember where there actually was at least some money.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: I think in the beginning they would give$10,000 to the winner.
16:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's still the same thing.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the first payment was like$10,000 for the weight division, and the super fight was like sixty sixty thousand dollars or something like that.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: And you did very, very well there.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: I remember you beat Ensign and No Way in a super fight at ABCC.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know Ensign and I know his brother Egan, because Egan was a student of Higgins as well.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: Yes, of course.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: I heard a story that they were trying to set up that fight, I think it was 1999, with Hicks Hickson, but they couldn't arrange it with Hickson.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: Would you have wanted to have that ADCC match against Hickson if that were possible?
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, of course.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: I was feeling good.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: I was feeling in good shape.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: That's what I've heard too.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: They tried to contact him, but I think they didn't have an agreement money-wise.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: They call Enzion because he he had just submitted what's his name?
17:22
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, Randy Couture in a fight, in an MMA fight in Japan.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Randy Couture, yeah.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: And Randy Couture had just beat Victor Belfort, and he was doing really good against the Jiu Jitsu fighters, and then because of that, he was his name was on the top, they contact him and he accepts.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk just a bit about like your approach to fighting.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: I've heard you say you don't really fight against someone, you fight with them.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
17:55
SPEAKER_00: And what do you mean by that?
17:56
SPEAKER_01: When I say that I fight with my opponent, not against my opponent, is because I try to go with the flow.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't try to kind of push too much my will because I may get as started as my opponent.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: So, in other words, I always start strong, always, always start strong because I want to get an advantage at the beginning.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: So in a jiu-jitsu tournament, I will always try to take you down.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: I will I won't stop until I I try to make you pool guard or if I take you down.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: And if I cannot do it, I demonstrate my pace and wait for a position.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: And the same thing in MMA.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: MMA, I would try to strike you as much as I can at the beginning, try to take you down, that's my environment.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't happen, I would try to control my pace.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: So I fight with my opponent, I don't fight against it.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: So whatever he does, I try to capitalize in what he does.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't try to push my will in terms of if I'm spending too much energy doing something, I'm gonna stop it and see what I can do.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: And let him do something that can capitalize on what he does.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: That's a really interesting strategy, and it makes sense.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering, you mentioned you went from grappling into the MMA because that's where the money was at.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Right.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: Did you prefer one of the other?
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Where was it more I don't know, I would say fun or rewarding to fight MMA or BJJ?
19:30
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on the feelings you had in both?
19:33
SPEAKER_01: I like to fight both.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: The feeling is pretty much the same, although you have the contact element.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: I think MMA, there is this connection with reality in terms of fighting.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: But I know jujitsu is so beautiful, you know, it no gi is so beautiful, also.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: So much technique and strength and speed and will on that, that it also makes me really, really happy doing it.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: And the feeling is pretty much the same.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Of course, when you fight pride, under a hundred thousand people live is different, and everybody's just looking at you and your opponent, and the energy is different.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I have not ever fought in a competition with strikes.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've trained with strikes, of course, in cages and stuff, but even just the pressure when we used to have super fights when there were in the beginning in Brazilian Judges in the United States, all the upper belt fights were super fights because there was only one other guy to fight with, you know, at all.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: And that was a lot of that I remember that was a lot of pressure, you know, like being in the center and everybody's looking at you.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: You don't get that today in the tournaments like Masters, there's 40 fights going on at the same time.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: There's pressure, but it's a little different, right?
20:42
SPEAKER_00: But in pride, right?
20:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, man, you've got the strikes, and you're the only fight, and it's the you got your 80,000 or whatever people live, and then there's all the people, millions of people watching on TV.
20:54
SPEAKER_00: That feels like pressure to me.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: But it sounds like you you could handle it.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, I yeah, I felt really comfortable with the pressure.
21:02
SPEAKER_01: Of course, it you know, I was scared, I was nervous, but I like it.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: And one of the reasons that I kind of retired, that's I start not feeling the same thing, and then I say, you know what?
21:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh it's not this is not for me anymore.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Because I like I like the pressure, I like people, you know, pushing me around, and this guy's gonna do this, this is gonna do that, you gotta be prepared.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: I say, Yeah, no problem, I can take care of myself.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: But you know, when you start getting older and you see the young guys getting better and better every day, and you struggling to don't get injured, it's hard.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I understand.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: Look, I I get that too, even the sport of jujitsu, and I'm older now, and there's definitely a point at which you can always get better at something.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can develop some part of your game and get better at it, but where overall you're a bit over the hill and you're watching all the other guys getting better and and even succeeding at things.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Where I would not let them succeed at that, but I have to now because I can't let my shoulder go there or something like that.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: And it is a little frustrating.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: It's slowing the decline.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I remember the time that I would not be worried about anything in terms of pain or getting tired or getting hurt.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: I would I was not scared of anything.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: It was way easier.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: My wife was she always pushed me to compete and push my limits.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: She's a great companion.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: You're still 41.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: I was in good shape.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: And I told her, look, you know, though those guys are getting better than me, and I'm, you know, it's hard, it's been hard to catch them up.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: I said, but look, you compare yourself to Nogueira, his brother, Paulo Filio, Arona, what do you want?
22:46
SPEAKER_01: You want you want to beat them up every day?
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, like I did before.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: So, like I was used to do, right?
22:54
SPEAKER_01: When they were younger, then I was stronger and faster.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: I just lost the drive when I was 41.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: I kept training really well until I was 48, then I hurt my shoulder.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: And now it's since then I was never I was not able to perform like I was used to do.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: I understand that.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: And I remember, yeah, you had an excellent MMA career.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: And most people, when they retire from MMA, it's after they have losses.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: And it takes a few, even if they were a great champion, they start losing and then they stop.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: But you didn't have that.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: You had, I think your last two fights were both wins, and you still decided to go.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: So it was interesting.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: You probably chose your timing well.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was it was a combination of facts.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Pride was over, and then I had some opportunities to engage in different ventures, and I said, you know what, it's time.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: So you were one of the founders of Brazilian Top Team, an amazing factory for just incredible fighters.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: And at that time, my understanding is you were a coach of the fighters, you were a manager, you would be, of course, sparring partner, business partner.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: Like that's a lot of different hats to be wearing.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: Right.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: I talked to Caesar Gracie, who is a friend of mine, and asked him why he stopped, why he's not coaching fighters anymore.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And for him, he said it was just too much time on the road, too much time not seeing his family.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: It just wasn't worth it for him anymore.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Why did you stop?
24:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know you left and came to the United States, but why did you stop training fighters and open up your own school?
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, to be honest, what I like most was train and compete.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: So when I I realized that I couldn't be at least try to be the best, and I gave up, I retired.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: I said, you know what?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: I want to do something different.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: I want to change a little bit here.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: As you said, you know, the traveling was too much.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: I went to Japan 52 times in eight years, so it was insane.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: And I said, you know what?
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna spend a little bit more time with my wife.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: My daughter was just born, my daughter was like two, three years old.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Again, everything's about passion.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: Of course, the money was good on the management side and the training side, but the flight, the energy, even the drama uh was too much for me.
25:21
SPEAKER_01: I went to a quieter mode sort of speech.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: So circling back, you mentioned that when you were young, when you were fit, when you were fast and strong, you didn't fear anything.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just wondering, the attitude towards fear is interesting to me.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: I think I heard you say that you like you would like to run towards the storm.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about that attitude, and do you still have that?
25:45
SPEAKER_00: And of course, that doesn't just apply towards fighting.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's many challenges in our life.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: I know you surf big waves, whatever.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: Tell me about your attitude of running towards the storm and how you handle fear.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: I am a Catholic, Christian Catholic, and I always believe in the Bible.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: And in the Bible, there's some passages saying that even though you have fear, you have doubts, if you cannot control them, you gotta go with the fear and the doubts, anyways.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: I always like to challenge myself.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: I remember coming to seminars and training at Castle and Gracie.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: I would arrive and I would kind of do a checklist and who wasn't the math.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: In a seminar, I would arrive and see, oh, this guy is a big guy, there's a black belt here.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm gonna train with everybody.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna test myself with everybody every day, every single day.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: The same in surfing.
26:36
SPEAKER_01: When I went to Hawaii, I said, no, I'm gonna surf pipeline.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: No, you won't surf pipeline, you won't surf pipeline.
26:41
SPEAKER_01: I said, you know what?
26:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna I'm gonna surf pipeline.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: And when I get there, it was like 10 feet, 8 feet, and I surfed pipeline.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Of course, the locals there helped me a little bit.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: They didn't push me around because they respect me as a fighter and a person.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: I always challenge myself in anything, even playing ping pong with my wife.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: We play like try to kill each other for hours, and he beat me, she beat me up anyways in ping pong.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: I always was this kind of guy that very competitive, and and I always deal with the notion of losing really well because I was not scared of losing or getting hurt, I was just scared of don't try to give up.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: I was always scared of myself in finding excuses.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: So that's the thing that when you see the storm, I say, Yeah, the storm is coming.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: Might be for a reason God doesn't give any button that in front of you that you cannot take it.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: So if He gives He's giving me this burden, I'm gonna take it.
27:45
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna take it with pleasure.
27:47
SPEAKER_00: It's a good point when people talk about fear.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: We talk about like fear of what?
27:52
SPEAKER_00: What is it you're afraid of, right?
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: If losing isn't the problem, then you don't have to have fear of losing.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: And if your fear is of not trying, then you can control that.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: And that's one way that people cope with fear is to understand what's the worst thing that could happen.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And you also, I think, mentioned something very important that it's not even about not having fear.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: People have fear, it's like what do you do?
28:14
SPEAKER_00: How does that make you change your behavior?
28:16
SPEAKER_02: With fear, yeah.
28:17
SPEAKER_00: You accept it and you take it, yeah.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm scared and I'm still gonna move forward.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, fear is not the absence of courage, right?
28:26
SPEAKER_01: Courage is fear, it's just a feeling that you have that you have to work with it, have to deal with it.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: And I I think I deal with it really well because I enjoy it.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: I like to be pressured, I like to be in fear, I like to be in fear in terms of having the knowledge that someone on the other side of the corner is training, has been training for six, four months to take my head out of my shoulder.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: So, what I can do?
28:54
SPEAKER_01: I can give up or I can get prepare myself as better as I can.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, and that's where that preparation, you know, if you know that your technique is good and if you know that your conditioning is good and your strength is good, that can help alleviate that problem because you know you're bringing a good machine to the fight.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: I used to have that same, I I kind of still do, but I'm careful with it now.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: But I used to have the same thing where I would walk onto a mat and look and see, like, or ask the instructor, who's the best guy here?
29:21
SPEAKER_00: That's the guy I want to go train with.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Because I figured I'm gonna get to him eventually, might as well start with him and just like let's get this over with, especially when I'm coming in to like a guest teach.
29:33
SPEAKER_00: I did that when I went for Carlos Machado in in Dallas, Texas.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: So he had left, he gave me his class, and they were all these big monster guys.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: And I just I was gonna come in and teach a class and then do training afterwards.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: And I just walked in and I looked at them and I just said, we're gonna start with training.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, just I thought like to get respect, I need to beat him and beat him and beat him, and then they're gonna listen to what I have to say when I actually start teaching.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: I am wondering, you've seen the evolution of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, of jiu-jitsu here in the United States.
30:05
SPEAKER_00: Do you think there's, I don't know if you can answer this, but do you think that there's better Brazilian jiu-jitsu training now in the United States than there is in Brazil?
30:13
SPEAKER_01: If not, soon it's gonna happen.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: Because all the, I mean, not all, but maybe 90, 85% of jiu-jitsu fighters, the Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighters, that they became good fighters, they end up going to America.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: So that's right.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: We do have Brazilians, they're really good in jiu-jitsu fighters.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're great in jiu-jitsu, but where do they live?
30:36
SPEAKER_01: They live in America.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Most of them, right?
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Because here you have, you know, like economy is better, you can raise your family out of out of out of your sport, and in Brazil is a little bit harder.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: We do have a lot of good fighters there.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: I've seen a great development also in Europe.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: There's just now this guy from Poland who won ADCC, a young guy who's like maybe 20, 21 years old.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: He's a master's in leg locks, his game is really, really different and progressive in terms of submissions.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think if I think America is pretty close to Brazil, if not more, it's gonna be soon.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and a lot of that, I think that's a good point.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: A lot of that is just because some of the best Brazilian fighters and instructors, like yourself, live in the United States.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, so it's still Brazil, it's still Brazilians that are many times the best, or there's still a lot of Brazilians that they just happen to be living and accessible to the United States because there's more.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: I assume that's because there's more opportunities here.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:36
SPEAKER_01: More purity.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Brazil is good when you're young, you can party, you can have fun, you have freedom.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: You can go to the beach, you can train, you can do whatever.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: Food is good, it's cheap.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: But then when you start getting older, you want to raise your family, you want to support your son, your daughter.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: There is the violence, there is, you know, like a dark ground that you when you get older, you start having a different fear of some things that you're not supposed to have when you were young.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: And that's what happened to me.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: So I had my daughter in 2005.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: My daughter is 21 years old now, she's doing great.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: She's at college.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: She drives to college, comes back in five hours.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm a little bit nervous, but nothing compared to Brazil.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: So I feel way safer here.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: I feel like my home.
32:23
unknown: Yeah.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, we're very lucky to have you.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: And my coaches, the Machados, I mean, everybody, all the best guys I met have as they moved here.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, when I think of how the sport has evolved since the days you and I had our fight in '98 and in those years, I see a lot more emphasis on points.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: I see a lot more complexity, interesting things, you know, barambola and inversions, and, you know, more complexity.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: Definitely mostly more complexity around getting points, although some new finishes do.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: And of course, in the submission grappling, there's the much more detail than I had than leg attacks.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: When I started, there were leg bars and foot locks.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: We did them, we liked them, but just more complexity.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a good thing.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: But I also think the average person in a jujitsu class today is not getting the same kind of fight skill that they had back then.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering your thoughts on the evolution of the sport and is it good, is it bad?
33:26
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
33:27
SPEAKER_01: The sport definitely has changed.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: And then again, that's why we have competition.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: They style today or they style 20 years or 50 years ago, they're different styles.
33:40
SPEAKER_01: But we gotta do what is make people win, right?
33:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm a very pragmatic guy.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: I always like leg logs, also.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: I didn't finish much fight of my fights with leglocks, but I think the evolution of the sports is like everything else, in in all different aspects of life, you have people things changed, and uh you gotta try to follow what is good for you or good for your students, for instance.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: So for me, so my my clientele is mu I would say 90% around people over 30 years old.
34:17
SPEAKER_01: So I for me is very easy because what I teach to my students, I could teach to an MMA fighter, I could teach for a UFC professional fighter.
34:30
SPEAKER_01: There's a simple stuff, right?
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Pressure, positioning, control, nothing like flying arm bars, bringing complex moves.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: I think those kind of moves, how those moves they develop, you see.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: We see for instance, let's use this good example, let's see de la Riva, right?
34:50
SPEAKER_01: I remember De La Hiva doing De La Hiva at the gym, right?
34:54
SPEAKER_01: So look how much other variations have today.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: But then again, it's like mathematics.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: If you don't know that two plus two is four, you won't be able to do complex equations.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: So de la Riva created his style, and his style works every today for pretty much everyone.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Then came up the reverse La Hiva, blah blah blah, blah blah blah.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: And then there are people physically are not able to do it.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you are maybe too heavy, or you're not that flexible, or you are not young anymore.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: So I for me is very easy because what everything that I did in my life in fighting was simple.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: Simple but effective.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: And my game, if I choose the if I show the path, anybody can do it.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I think I could help a lot of professional fighters.
35:48
SPEAKER_01: I could have a lot of amateur fighters and I'm helping people too today.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know what you mean, and I feel that's similar to my game.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: You could call it more basic, more fundamental, but fundamentals work.
35:59
SPEAKER_00: And I've had the experience where I will fight somebody who's young who they've just never felt pressure.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: They've never felt pressure, you know, it shuts them down a hundred percent, and they can't do that.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: So I think you you want to have the fundamentals even as you grow with the sport.
36:13
SPEAKER_00: I agree with that.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, there are some things that again, good, bad, I don't know.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: Like you wrote you will remember tournaments, early BJJ tournaments, where it was not the very well organized, but it was very like raucous.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Fight fights could break out, people sitting along the edge of the mat.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: I of course remember that.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Good times.
36:35
SPEAKER_00: What's that?
36:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was fun.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: It was, yeah.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm glad now there's more professional refereeing and there's a lot of rules, and the crowd has to stay away.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: But if for the younger listeners who don't know this, it used to be crowds of people right at the edge of the mat and screaming, and occasionally fights breaking out, and one team fighting another team, and people yelling at the referee and the referee yelling back like a hot pen, right?
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was like, yeah, exactly.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: It was just mayhem.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: But I kind of miss that energy, but it's good that the sport has evolved.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: I think it's fine.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned that a lot of your students are a little bit older, and I think more and more people in the sport of jujitsu are older people, people over 30, over 40, they want to train for health.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: How have you adapted?
37:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned what you're teaching works for anybody anyway, because it was never requiring crazy flexibility or something like that.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Are there other ways in you've in which you've adapted your training so you can stay on the mat?
37:37
SPEAKER_00: And what's your advice to guys who are getting older and want to stay training, stay healthy?
37:42
SPEAKER_01: I think the first thing you gotta focus on your flexibility, try to stretch as much as you can because you're when you get older, you naturally get a little bit stiff.
37:52
SPEAKER_01: And uh you gotta keep your weight, man.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: You gotta keep your weight down.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: So I was used to fight with 220.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: I was used to weigh myself 220 and lose some weight here to go super heavy.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Abu Dhabi, I fought 98 kilos, 220 is 100 kilos.
38:09
SPEAKER_01: So now I'm 203, 205.
38:14
SPEAKER_01: So you gotta lose weight.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Because when you get older, you don't lose a lot of strength if you work your strength, but you lose your flexibility and your endurance.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: So you gotta work with the tools that God gave you, right?
38:29
SPEAKER_01: So, what I do, I train a lot of strength, a lot of isometric strength, because my game is making pressure, anyways.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: And I try to use my flexibility that I was pretty decent in terms of flexibility, and I try to keep that.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: And I take care of my diet.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: I I keep in shape.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: I think that that's important.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: I tell people that we are born with gifts, you know, flexibility, things like that.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: But God never said you're gonna get to keep that if you don't work for it.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: You can keep a lot of it if you work for it, if you actively stretch and stay warm, and of course, avoiding injury is very important, picking the right partners.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: But I agree with you on that.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: I know in yoga they say you're as young as your spine is flexible.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Meaning you stay flexible, you stay young.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: You become and if you if you look at what we think of as an old person, if I look at down the street and I see someone who looks like an old person to me, I don't know how old they are.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking at how their body is, and I see stiff movement and short steps.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: And so, by definition, if you can keep your motion and your flexibility, I think it's not just you're not gonna look old.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: That's the definition of what old is being an old person walking like that, right?
39:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and moreover, you you cannot fight against time.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: Believe it or not, I always like philosophy.
39:48
SPEAKER_01: And I started studying philosophy at school when I was younger, the military school, actually.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was like a young kid, 16, 15 years old.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: They start those guys start teaching philosophy.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, philosophy.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: What I wanna what I want to talk about that.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: So they start talking about Plato, and yeah, Plato, who's this guy?
40:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, he was a fighter.
40:07
SPEAKER_01: So what?
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Kind of put my attention.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: If Plato was a fighter, he was uh to today's would be called the wrestling, right?
40:18
SPEAKER_01: He was a second division wrestling champion.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if he was the first one who did the academy, like school, to teach.
40:26
SPEAKER_01: And his academy was based in discipline, in terms of physical discipline.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: He they would have time to train, to lift, to train fighting, wrestling, and they would do fasting, they would do a bunch of exercises, and they also they would because they like logic stuff, different than today's the you know, this human science, that they don't do that, they were used to you to study mathematics because a very pragmatic science.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: It is what it is, the numbers don't lie.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: So, what I'm saying is that because there is another philosopher called Seneca that said you gotta worry about the events that you can control, yes, nothing else.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: So I can be younger, I won't be younger, so I have to deal with the things that I can do.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: So I can't what what can I do?
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I can keep my shape, I can work better, my flexibility, and I can try to be as strong as I can.
41:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: Seneca, I strongly recommend our listeners read Seneca, Stoic philosophy.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: This everything you're talking about, this warrior philosopher mindset, I think is amazing stuff.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I very much appreciate that too.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: One thing that occurred to me recently, Mario, is so much about jujitsu is adaptation, right?
41:47
SPEAKER_00: You adapt, like you said, that's how you deal with the fight.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: If you didn't get what you want at the beginning, you see what they're doing, you adapt, you bring the right thing.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: We were very clear on the outcome we want, but we're gonna adapt how we get there.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: That's very much jujitsu, which even means in Japanese gentle art, but gentle meaning pliable, flexible.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: Right.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's a superpower of jujitsu.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: And I think for people who can bring that into their life to be open-minded, to adapt, is I've always said is like the most amazing superpower of jujitsu is the ability to adapt.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: So that way, even if someone is stronger than you, you can still beat them, just don't beat them with strength.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: Adapt and find it, find another way, right?
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Find to get to their back and choke them out.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: But one thing I've learned when I get older is there is one time when adaptation can be a problem.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: And the way I'm thinking about it is adaptation in the short term is great to deal with the problem, find the way to win and win.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: But one way we adapt in the long term is maybe we have an injury for our shoulder and so we start work around it.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: And we don't really rehab it because we can work around it, we can adapt to the problem, or we have a problem in our hip.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: So now we change the way we walk a little bit to adapt to it, which is fine in the short term, but then we eventually lose something because we've worked around it and we never properly, we're not rehabbing it.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Like we're not bringing it.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: And I've realized that it in that sense, we don't, the body wants to adapt, but we need to be very disciplined, especially as we're older.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's that injury you had 20 years ago.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Get that flexibility back, strengthen that muscle again, right?
43:21
SPEAKER_00: To be a complete, have a complete body.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, I think we end up, yeah, we end up with too many problems, too many things we adapted to, but we never properly brought them back.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of my time now is spent in the gym, not even doing things to make my jujitsu better.
43:38
SPEAKER_00: It's to re-strengthen a shoulder that I stopped using a certain way because I'm gonna now I want that motion back again.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: You're right.
43:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can I agree more than that.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: So I'm want to be very respectful of your time.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: I have one more question of you.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: So you were such a disciplined fighter, so disciplined in your training.
43:59
SPEAKER_00: How does That discipline shows up in your life today?
44:02
SPEAKER_00: Are you still using your discipline?
44:04
SPEAKER_00: And what does discipline look for you today at your age today?
44:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, discipline for me is to set up plans and follow them.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, discipline is a training.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: I just was talking about this yesterday.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I talked to my daughter.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: She came here, she's she left home, she didn't make her bed.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: Say, look, because she's living by herself now.
44:28
SPEAKER_01: So look, you gotta make your bed.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh daddy, said look, you gotta do your bed.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: So you so when you come back, your bed is well done.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: Say, nah, man, I don't care.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: So that's the problem.
44:40
SPEAKER_01: When you don't care about excellency, this thing is gonna replicate in all aspects of your life.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: So when you wake up and you do your bet, you program your body to do the right thing the best way as possible.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: And not just to the bed, you gotta do the bed spotless, like a hotel.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: Because you train your body and your mind and your soul to do the best out of everything.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: How are you gonna sign a contract?
45:10
SPEAKER_01: She wants to be a lawyer.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: How are you gonna sign a contract of uh millions and millions of dollars if you don't even know if you don't care about doing your bed?
45:18
SPEAKER_01: It's impossible.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: You gotta keep training excellency every day.
45:24
SPEAKER_01: It's like stealing.
45:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't steal one dollar of one penny.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: Because if you steal one penny, one dollar, you're gonna steal in ten dollars, hundred dollars, one million, then you just don't do it.
45:36
SPEAKER_01: Right?
45:37
SPEAKER_01: And then that's what I kind of try to look for in my life.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: I set up plans and I don't give excuses.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: I keep trying to do it.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: My plans are simple, like wake up, I pray in the morning, I I do my fasting today's Friday because I'm a Catholic, I don't eat meat, and I don't eat the first meal in the morning.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: I do the rosaries Fridays in the morning, also.
45:59
SPEAKER_01: I woke up at five o'clock in the morning, I prayed for one hour and a half.
46:03
SPEAKER_01: And why I do it because that's what I believe is gonna help me to go as a man, not just as a person, but a man in the sense of my soul and my example to the others.
46:17
SPEAKER_00: That's great wisdom, Professor.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a saying in Japanese, how you do one thing is how you do a thousand things.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what you're saying.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're you don't see someone who's a the best ballet dancer in the world and they go tripping down the street and moving, they only get good balance when they step onto the stage.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: No.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: The best ballet dancer in the world looks like the best ballet dancer in the world when they get out of bed in the morning every step.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: That's how you build that, and that's what you're talking about.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: Make your bed.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: The way if you do small things well, you're gonna do big things well.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: If you don't take care in the small things, you're not suddenly gonna become a person who has attention to detail on the things that are important.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: No, not at all.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're right, you're right in the spot.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for your time.
47:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that we got a chance to meet again after all these years.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: I'll come visit in Florida if I'm everywhere.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, amazing.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: I well, yeah, be my guest.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be a pleasure to see you again.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: And it was uh I was really happy when you I got your message and said, Man, Dave, oh yeah, I remember.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
47:23
SPEAKER_01: Now I think I don't know if you know, but I think we have a picture in a magazine, in a cover of a magazine.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe on the podium.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: No, no, not on the podium.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, that you didn't look too good.
47:39
SPEAKER_01: Oh, are you beating me up?
47:41
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm not quite sure, but I you know what?
47:45
SPEAKER_01: I would send you, I will forward the email with the cover of the magazine, and I think it was you.
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll have a look.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: I'll have a look at it.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'll post it.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: Listen, okay, I am very proud to I don't need to look good.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm very proud to be choked out by you.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: I would do it ten more times if I could.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: What a great honor.
48:05
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for your time, and you have a great rest of your day.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for the opportunity.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: It's a great pleasure.
48:11
SPEAKER_01: Whenever in Miami, you know where to find me.
48:13
SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed my talk with Professor Mario Sperry.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: We have links in the show notes to his academy in Miami and all of the things that we discussed.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: Thanks to my team, Angela, Bill, Kyle, Phil, Robbie, and to Ryan Peach Turner, my producer and chief editor, for your help.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: And thanks also to the show sponsors and supporters.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: And you can see them on our supporters page at AgelessWarriorLab.com.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: And if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, please take a moment to rate the show.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: I mentioned to Mario my talk with Caesar Gracie and Caesar's decision to stop coaching and managing pro fighters and MMA.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: You can check that talk out here, which is episode 31.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: I'll be back next week with more lessons from the lab.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: And until then, keep developing your strength, your wisdom, and go out and do good in the world.